The Ramsey Show - App - Your Feelings Don’t Build Wealth — Discipline Does

Episode Date: April 30, 2025

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Waschall, number one bestselling author, Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us. It is a free call. Nathaniel is in New York City. Hi Nathaniel. Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hi there. Super happy to be here. Glad to have you. How can we help? Good. Let me try to be brief. So I'm 26 years old. I'm a law student, got no debt, got a job lined up at a big corporate law firm once I graduate and actually doing better than that a few years ago I inherited about a million dollars.

Wow. Nice. Yeah, this inheritance to me it's like I treat it like a sacred gift from God and I feel like I have a responsibility to be a really excellent steward of it so I'm very safe principle protection investment strategy for this money it's in a trust account only I control only I control it. I got a financial advisor on it. Feeling good about that. Good thing. One thing too, I'm getting married in a few months. Um, I'm in dating my now fiance for almost four years. She's the youngest of many siblings. She has no assets or liabilities of her own, virtually no income potential. She's a pianist, um, but we're actually happy about this arrangement.

She wants to be a mom. I'll be a breadwinner. This seems good. My question was about my future in-laws. So her parents are retired. They actually live in China and they lost a lot of money by mortgaging their fully paid for apartment for leverage in a risky investment which of course failed and there's something like $25,000 in the hole. So I guess my question is I'm thinking about how I should manage this like what's the right thing to do here needs to be my future in-laws like on the one hand they're a family I could pay off their debt like literally 40 times over.

Would I be a jerk not to? But on the other hand, part of me doesn't really feel like using my money, soon to be our money, to help people who in retirement mortgaged our only safe asset for leverage in a single risky investment. Are they asking you for help? for leverage in a single risky investment. Are they asking you for help? No, I'm just thinking ahead. In fact, my fiance doesn't actually know about the full extent of my wealth,

and I haven't really been sure how to explain this to her. Interesting. So you know this about the in-laws, the in-laws don't know about your wealth, nor are they asking for you to do anything about it. Correct. Interesting.

I'm just, yeah, thinking ahead on what, because I imagine this could come up. Well, I- Yeah, okay, full stop. You don't go another day promising to marry somebody and you're keeping secrets from them. That's the first thing, yep. Unhealthy, dude. Unhealthy.

You guys got to sit down with somebody and unpack what's going on between the two of you. She has to know what's going on in your life. You don't marry somebody and oh, surprise. I have a million dollars in debt or surprise. I have a million dollars in high yield savings accounts cause I got this inheritance and I didn't want to, I didn't want to tell you. No, that, that doesn't work. This is somebody you're going to spend your life with and you've got to be able to trust them.

If you can't trust them, you don't need to be able to marry them. Okay. So that makes sense. We've got to work on that immediately. And while you're doing that, you could just have this discussion, not in the same breath, but a week later after you come clean. Um, but then you just say, Hey, I'm worried about this and I'm a little bit conflicted.

I kind of feel like I want to help. I kind of don't want anybody asking me to help. Um, and I kind of don't want to reward bad behavior and I'm conflicted and I think that's a wonderful thing to discuss with your spouse and see what she says and if she says well of course you have to help well now we got another problem right that is a that's a good indicator now we got another problem you know So like I was a friend of mine's kids were getting married and they the young man was a his mother was

a single mom who didn't have any money and the marriage counselor the pre marriage counselor asked them well what would happen if you know his mom if y'all are married and have your own life and his mom gets in financial trouble and he named us, he just instantly said, oh, she'd move in with us and the fiance's head spun around twice and said, I don't think so. We hadn't talked about that. I don't think so. Uh, you need another plan for mama.

And, uh, you know, and, you know, so that's the kind of stuff you need to get. That's really good healthy things to be on the same page about before you go in. And then whatever the two of you decide together that you can both work through the awkwardness on will be okay with me. There's not an ethical or legal, as you know, mandate that you take care of them. But it is a small

amount of money compared to the amount of money you're dealing with, and so you could reach over with absolutely no impact on your life and pay off their little debt and set them up, but you don't want to do that if they're going to turn around and do the same kind of stupid stuff again. So I want to get into the under the under the hood and find out what's broken that caused them to be stupid in the first place. And is it a track record? Yeah, is this like a pattern or are we going to do it again or have we learned our lesson? Because I did stupid stuff and went broken and never did it again. As I learned my lesson, right? And so, you know, that doesn't invalidate me.

We didn't talk about this, but Nathaniel, I mean, you're in law school, you've got this big chunk of money. Are you thinking about like a prenuptial agreement? Is that what's caused you to hold off on telling her this? Yeah, maybe I should clarify that a little bit more. I think initially, so this came somewhat recently. It was kind of a surprise to me. I had initially, so this came somewhat recently, it was kind of a surprise

to me, I had no idea this was coming. And also, I just, there was a part of me that wanted to make sure, to feel secure, that she's interested in me only because of me and not the fact that I happen to have the pot of gold behind me. And I live a lifestyle which doesn't at all reflect that I have the pot of gold behind me. Yeah, you can do that in about a week. Yeah. Yeah, you don't lead with the fact that you have a million dollars that you inherited,

but I don't think that you keep it a secret for as long as you have. Right, yeah. I mean, she knows I'm not suffering. She knows I've never been struggling from anything like that. Right, but that's a lot different than knowing somebody just inherited a million dollars. Those are two completely different things. I'm not suffering she knows I've never been struggling from right somebody had just inherited a million dollars those are two completely you need to get on the phone you guys need to sit down this in the next 24 hours and talk about this

dude if you can't talk to her about this because of this or this or this or this or this and you got 73 reasons you don't need to marry this girl because dude I mean you're gonna be swapping unbelievable tragedies over the next 40 years together. Unbelievable blessings over the next 40 years together. And if you can't get you can't even get this to come out of your mouth because you got 73 reasons you're worried about her, then this ain't marriage material dude. You got to get this straight. No, no, you do not. If you have to deceive someone

because you're worried about their authenticity, we don't marry them. Well, honestly, that's more on his authenticity. I know. Than her, yeah, you know what I'm saying? Yeah. I feel like she, Nathaniel, you got, you're more of the problem here than your old lady.

Than they are, yeah, yeah. Nine out of 10, Nathaniel needs to come clean. One out of ten, pay off the 25k or don't. Yeah, that's how this weighs out on this call. This is the Ramsey Show. Mark's in San Antonio. Hey Mark, what's up? Hey Dave, how are you?

Better than I deserve. How can I help? Hey, I'm in San Antonio. Hey Mark, what's up? Hey Dave, how are you? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Hey, I am struggling with getting my wife and I on the same page on getting out of debt. I've been an ad-billicitor for you guys only about two months, but yeah, multiple times a day I'm trying to catch up on Spotify and I really buy an end. I really I think Belloni says straight in the cool aid I want to go because that one tense and really get after everything and I got I got the every dollar every dollar

I did our budget and We have a lot of debt and my wife is not as terrified about it as I am I just need to wanted some advice on how I want to get her to see things my way. But I'm smart enough to know that we have to see things the same way, not my way. That's good. Does she listen? Does she listen at all to the show? She does not. Have you sent it to her just to say, Hey, I've been listening to this podcast. I really like it. You might like a couple things. She she likes the message she doesn't always like Dave's delivery so it's hard to get her to follow through with it. Okay yeah

just I think you know this but the way that I'm hearing it is you're... Wait a minute you didn't send her the podcast, you sent her social media clips. Yeah, probably. I think, you know, she ever heard a podcast on the Bluetooth in my truck? When Dave was on. Yeah, cause my delivery, my delivery in the social media clips is 100% smart ankle.

Sure. But it's different on the podcast if you listen to the whole thing in context. That's right. So yeah, I don't like me on social media. Yeah, it's meant to be controversial. It's meant to push people, you know, make them think. It's meant to get 40 million views.

That's right, that's right. It's meant to do and it does. But it has nothing to do with who I really am or how this message works. Yeah, I would be careful with that anyway. But anyway, the thing, the mistake that most people make including me with Sharon on some things is I would ask you, okay you said I'm ready to drink the Kool-Aid, I want to get out of that, I'm ready to do all this stuff, I'm ready to be gazelle intense, and my

question is why? Why are you doing that? I make good money. I'm a young man. I think I'm a young man. I'm 27. I make really good money, but it's paycheck to paycheck. And that's how my wife and I both grew up. Why do you want to do this stuff? I want to give my kids the life I didn't have. Ah, okay. There it is. A good why.

Good why. How many kids you got? Two. Good. Okay. So, guys are worse than ladies on this. We generally, when we come to our wives with something, we tell them what instead of why. And if you'll tell her why a lot, she'll start asking about the what. Because there's very few women on the planet, unless they've got psychological disorder, that when

their husband looks at them and says, I want to give our children a better life and I'm terrified, they say, oh, we don't want to do that. She agrees, she wants to get out of debt and she even, I've explained the snowball and she likes the process, she just doesn't have the same intensity. Well, of course. You have about 5,000 more hours of information than she does.

Sure. What happened, can I ask you about the catalyst to all this, what happened that you found Ramsey or that made you start listening to the show? What in your life kind of made you go, I need to look for something here? I have a long commute to work. And so you're just listening. And I need something to listen to. And I've seen the social media clips and I like what you say, so I started listening

to the podcast. Okay. Okay. So that's. Go back to that, then. Again, you saw the social media clips and it scratched an itch. That's Jade's point, okay? And even if the delivery is not her style,

which is perfectly acceptable, I completely understand that. My wife doesn't care for my delivery, so that's okay. And so, but it's compelling and it works, so we're gonna keep doing it. But the, anyway, whatever the itch was, it's scratch that caused you to go down this rabbit hole, this Ramsey rabbit hole, that's what we need

to just keep talking about with her, instead of like, are we going to do the debt snowball? Cause intensity doesn't come from information, intensity comes from buying a dream. Sure. We sacrifice, we live like no one else so

that later we can live like no one else. And we believe that if we plant corn seed in the hot sun and we get the hoe out and get calluses hoeing the weeds out that the corn is going to come in and bring us a lot bigger crop. Otherwise we wouldn't do all that crap. You know you're not going to pay a price unless you think you're going to win. I mean nobody goes to the gym. Well most people don't go to the gym because it's fun

They go because they're tired of being overweight. They're tired of being out of shape But people's tipping point is different to get there Yeah, like you could your tipping point to use Dave's analogy you step on the scale and you see 185 pounds That could be like that's it. I've had it I'm going to the gym that might not be somebody else's tipping point somebody else's tipping point might be they go to put their jeans on And the buttons too tight or they go to sit their jeans on and the button's too tight, or they go to sit on the plane and they feel like they're too squished in on the plane.

Do you see what I'm saying? So you had a tipping point that scratched a niche that you had, she's gotta feel that. And I think the way that you do that is you have these conversations, you make it very clear on the why, and this is not a light switch. Very rarely do you have, about something major like this,

very rarely do you have one conversation and that's it, that's settled, we've decided. Usually this is more of a process and some of the things that I think will help along that process, to your point, if you are living paycheck to paycheck, there are going to be many symptoms that are playing out in your lives today. So as those things play out, say,

honey, this is just the type of thing, these are the types of things I want to make better. Do you see how much struggle that was to pay that bill? And then you can start to show her, here's some of the symptoms that we're feeling, and she's gonna get on board. But I think the idea that, hey, I'm just gonna say this, she's gonna be excited, and we're gonna ride off

into the sunset in one night is not. It would mean a lot to me if you would listen to this stuff and tell me what I'm missing here with this because I'm really excited about this idea because I've been so scared for so long and I really wanna change our family tree. I really want our kids to have a different life and the way we've been living

with the kind of money we make is not okay with me. I want us to prosper. I want us to end up with something at the end of the story. I want the kids to have a different life. And just keep talking about that kind of stuff instead of talking about we need to sell your car and let's get on the death snowball. You need to be more intense and you ought to go get a job.

And start talking about all these what's. Nobody lines up on the what's until they get the whys. So you gotta talk about why. Why, why, why, why why and you can talk about your why and you can ask her okay what would it be like for you and dream together dream in HD high definition dreams what would it be like for you if we had a million dollars I mean the best question I remember when I used to listen to the show long before I worked here is what would life feel like if you had no payments you know that that I feel like they have no debt. I mean we were putting this much away. What could we do with that money? What would it feel like to get our paycheck every you know twice a week or once a month?

Whatever it is, and it's just our money and we get to decide together the fun things we want to do with it That's a great question to ask yeah So yeah those of you that are just picking up on this stuff, be real careful that either one of us and our personalities or the stuff that we teach or the name Ramsey becomes a cuss word in your house because you use it as a club on somebody. Like you know, because like suddenly you got smart and everybody else is dumb. And you come in there swinging the bat at everybody and they're like, I don't like this Ramsey stuff I don't even know what it is. I don't like it. Of course

I'm they're not gonna do it But that's you coming in saying, you know, we're stupid and we're not doing this anymore and we're selling your car and what? No, I don't think so buddy. And all of a sudden you've got a spouse that's not plugged in and Instead you got it. and the other thing is this very rarely are both spouses at the same intensity level exactly the entire time that's so true Dave so true it's an unrealistic expectation yeah you can balance each other out and push each other where one is falling off and you know what I'm saying I mean, I need some level of intensity That's right

But if if you're if you know mark if you're running at a 12 if you if she's running at an 8 and you're running The same direction you're gonna be fine. Yeah, that's great It's if she's running at a 0 or a negative 4 that's when you got a problem, right? But yeah, you're it's okay, but all of that comes back to why not what and listen this guy He's telling us we're stupid. That's yeah, because I will tell you that Because I love you and I want you to stop being stupid Are you staying on track with the baby steps take a quick quiz to check your progress and receive a personalized plan Just for you, which is like what a personalized plan is so simply head to the show notes

Click the link. Are you on track with the baby steps and complete the quiz very easy And then we'll ship you out a thing straight to you. That is just for you, baby Yeah, that's fun Devon's in Fort Wayne Indiana hi Devon what's up hey hey good man how can we help yes I'm kind of going through something now I'm just being sued for $15,000 I'm trying to figure out how to go about it I guess answer what are you being sued for $15,000 what I got to a car accident probably about two years ago now. I didn't have insurance on the car so they're coming after me

for damages. Okay all right cool and it's been two years? Yeah. And who's the insurance company? Who's the insurance company's coming after you? Safeco. Okay, cool. Alright, and have they sued you? Yeah, the judgment went through seven to last month. Awesome. Okay, cool. And what do you make? At this point, I'm starting the job Monday, so it should be gross around $1,800. $1,800 what?

$1,800 what? A week? Yeah. Okay. All right. And you're working 40 hours at the new job? Yeah. How old are you? 24. I'll be 25 tomorrow. Why didn't you have insurance? Oh, I mean, just let it lapse. Didn't the bill, and I guess just being stupid with my money. Yeah, that didn't work good, did it? No. You got insurance now? Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, you learned your lesson then, right? Yeah. Good, okay, cool. So the new job, what are you doing? Building RVs. Okay, you're working 40 hours? Yeah. Okay cool cool. All right so here's the deal a um insurance company let's put their lawyers shoes on their managers shoes on for a minute and I'm gonna look over at this guy this guy owes me $15,000 he's not a multi-millionaire he doesn't make a lot of money he's 24

years old he's a young broke guy right that's what I see if I'm coming after you you're gonna be hard to collect from because you don't have anything. Right. That's what I see if I'm looking over from their shoes at you. Is that fair? Yeah. Okay, that's to your advantage, dude. Okay. And, um, because that's the card you play. Um, so the attorney that sued you, you've got their name, right? Yeah, they gave me the name and phone number. Good, good.

Okay, here's what I want you to do. I want you to scratch together by working another, by working two extra jobs on top of the one you just got. And I want, are you living at home? Yeah. Okay, so you don't have any expenses much? No, not really. No going out on weekends, no happy hour, no

nothing. You're broken and being sued. You need some money. All you're gonna do is work and stack cash for a minute, okay? Once you work three jobs, okay? Okay. And once you get $5,000 really fast. How fast can you get $5,000 if you do what I'm telling you to do? Month and a half? Month and a half. Yeah. And I want you to call a lawyer. Are you in a good church by chance?

No. You know any good lawyers? Just their personal friends or family or anything? No. Okay. Then you're going to have to take a chance, but you're gonna call the lawyer and I want you to play broke kid records for him. Okay. I'm a broke kid. I'm 24 years old. I got no money. I was stupid. I didn't have insurance. I screwed up. I know this

is a debt and I know you can come after me and I got nothing. So you're not gonna get nothing. Right. There's nothing for you to get dude, but I did work six extra jobs because my financial coach told me y'all would settle with me. I'm your financial coach and I just told you that. Okay. And I'm gonna offer you $5,000 cash right now to settle this whole thing. Let me tell you what he's gonna do. He's gonna whine, spit, roll around the floor a little bit, and he's gonna say $7,000 and you're gonna say I don't have seven I have five. He's gonna whine, he's gonna run around the floor, he's gonna spit, you're gonna say I got five do you want five? Because I'm a broke kid and after this phone call, I'm going to use some of that and just go file bankruptcy and you're going to get zero. But I'd like to just get this settled.

And you're going to have to negotiate, play broke kid, broke kid records, and get him to take your five grand as settlement in full. Remember that phrase, okay? I want to settle this in full. No I'm not paying payments and I'm going to settle it in full and they'll take your money. You're going to work at it a little bit okay? But this is the price you pay for not having insurance and you're going to go get it straightened

down. You'll never forget this the rest of your whole life. I did stuff when I was 24 that changed the trajectory my whole life, too Then they'll take it won't they Jade they'll take it they'll take it they'll take it cuz they don't think they're gonna get anything dude Right, they're gonna consider this a gift from heaven That is true. Okay, yeah Cuz statistically you're a bankruptcy looking for a place to happen, but dude, there's no way you're bankrupt You can make this kind of money pay it off

You're gonna get it all cleared up because you just stack cash and live at home and go work five jobs you're a bankruptcy looking for a place to happen, but dude, there's no way you're bankrupt. You can make this kind of money and pay it off. You're going to get it all cleared up because you just stack cash and live at home and go work five jobs. You'll clear the whole thing up if you have to, but you don't have to. You call them and work a deal, get it in writing from them before you give them any money. Okay. I need it in writing that you accept $5,000 a settlement in full on this claim on this judgment When I get that in an email, I will wire you the money that day

But you got to go get the money first before you make the phone call, right? Right, so are you gonna do that? You think this will work? Yeah, there's no reason it shouldn't You said your work making $1,800 a week now and you're living at home. Yeah instantly Yeah, I was on the verge of calling him in this morning making a payment plan I was like no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no no he'll bite or she's a lawyer, she'll bite. And because they know there's not gonna be any payments. My financial coach said under no circumstances, bad guy off of me, Devin, just say my guy told me I can't do that. My guy.

I'm your guy, okay? Because I just told you you can't do that. And you say I don't know what I'm doing, I'm just a broke kid but I got $5,000, I do know that and I give you that if you wanna be be done with this, but you're not getting that end payments because my guy told me I can't do that. Right. You gonna do this or not?

Yep, I got you. All right. You're not bankrupt, dude, you just need a plan, okay? No. I appreciate it. Go get them. If you need more help, you call us back, that's why we're here. Gotta have a plan.

You gotta have a plan. Yeah, I would, no way in the world would I go payments on that or bankrupt over that. No, you can't. You don't, you don't file bankruptcy on $15,000 when you're making $1,800 a week. Come on. And you're living at home. You don't have the biggest expenses that most folks have. Like any mama going to cook you some meals. You're going to get this mess cleaned up. You don't have rent and you don't have daycare.

Quit going to happy hour and pay your dad go insurance. I was right. I was gonna say it, I didn't say it. I'm like, in many ways we went easy on you because we could have said, listen, you've got the money, you make 7200 bucks a month, pay it off in, you know, in two months and pay it. But you know, I get it. You can go the other way too, but you just work it. And it's, the whole process is going to be good for you. You're going to, because you know, you're, you're never going to do it again. No, he learned his lesson. You always make sure the insurance gets paid.

And it could have been so much worse. It could have been bankrupt. You know what I mean? Well, I mean, he could have hit my car. That's what I'm saying. Woo! Woo! Oh gosh.

That wouldn't have been 15. I'm just saying. Don't I, didn't you once tell me that somebody hit one of your cars in a restaurant parking lot? Yeah, I just put a little thing on about the size of a quarter which would have cost him more than a quarter. It would have cost more than a quarter. A quarter of what?

The night I turned 16, my daddy let me have the keys to the pickup truck and I went to the Pizza Hut and I first got my driver's license that day. First time I ever drove by myself out into the wild. When I'm backing out of the thing at the Pizza Hut I hit a Corvette with a bumper of the truck. So been there done that. Man. Been there done that. Sixteen freaking years old and an idiot. Wow. This is the Ramsey Show. Thanks for joining us America. Next week I will be with Dr. John Deloney in three more cities, concluding the Money and Relationships Tour. Monday will be in Phoenix, Arizona, May the 5th. Fort Worth on Wednesday, May the 7th. About four tickets left on that one, a handful only. Kansas City sold out for Friday.

Woop woop. May 9th and Fort Worth basically sold out, but you can probably get a, you can pull up the thing and see which seats are there, but it's a handful. And so you can find out what's going on. Phoenix, I think we got plenty, but it is coming up Monday, so I need to get your tickets.

We'll be out there. If you're tuning in on YouTube or podcast, click the link in the show notes and you can buy. There's no reason to be trapped in the same money problems, the same relationship problems, and you get to hear Dr. John and I, I can promise you this, it'll be funny and informative. Your reluctant spouse will actually have a good time so come make a date night out of it and come out one night we'd love to see you Christopher's in Knoxville hi Christopher welcome to the Ramsey show hi thank you for taking my call Dave sure how can we help I am in about $19,000 worth of debt I have about $25,000 invested in a mutual fund.

I recently moved out to Knoxville from Albuquerque and I'm just trying to get some clarity on what I should do next. Uh, I'm only making about $3,000 a month out here in Knoxville. I'm a personal trainer at a gym and I, me and my girlfriend, I came out here to support, we're going through a breakup right now and just trying to figure some things out. So you moved all the way to Knoxville, doing the personal training thing, not making too, too much,

but what's your point of staying there? Did you go just for the relationship or is there any other reason you're there? Yeah, pretty much just for the relationship. Her and I are still living together, uh, trying to work things out, but it's not super clear on if that's going to happen. But I'm just trying to do some growth as a man right now. So, um, I told everybody I'm going to be out here for a year.

I'm going to help her get to PA school and I'm still trying to stick to that even though and I'm not like like a stalker Anything like staying now that's that's bull Yes You absolutely do not need to help somebody get through PA school that you broke up with and you don't need to live in the same House with somebody you broke up with yeah, what's that mean help her get through PA school? Are you paying for it? You don't do that. No married emotionally Making sure all the things around the house are done. Just all those things.

Yeah. And we built up maybe a month and a half, two months ago, but you still live there. Yeah. I, we, I don't know how weird that sounds. It's weird. You wouldn't, it's weird. All of it.

Yeah. I would move out immediately, basically, if you can, like get out of there. You guys need to separate your living situation. Oh, wait a minute, I mean, I'm so confused because I'm old, so I don't understand this stuff. But like I've been married 43 years, so I don't know how to do what you're doing.

But so I don't know how you go through it. You either are together or you're broken up. I don't know how you kind of stand in the middle with one foot on the boat, one on the dock and the boats leaving. I think you're just gonna get wet. So am I missing, I mean, so I think it's probably healthy for you to make a call.

Are you done with this relationship, Christopher? I don't want to be, but... I didn't ask that. I said are you done with this relationship? No sir. Okay, is she? No sir. Then why are you telling me you're broke up? Because we are not technically boyfriend and girlfriend anymore. That's kind of like being done with the relationship dude. And here's the problem you've created all of these high stakes that are that are causing you to make decisions you might not otherwise make. If you were just dating somebody and you lived in your house and she lived in hers and you lived in the state that you wanted to and you didn't follow her somewhere the things that happen in the relationship you could very clearly filter them as what they are but now the stakes are high you've moved all the way out here. You're sharing a residence

So it's not as easy to look at a situation and go that's not for me I'm gonna high tail it out of here. Now you have to think about where you're gonna live Are you gonna stay in this state? What about rent? What about this? Do you see how it makes something that should have been so simple very very complex with a lot of weighted stakes Yeah, so I think you're going back to Albuquerque. I do too. Okay, I appreciate you guys. Thanks for the call. Sorry, man.

I don't know what he's doing, but I think he should do that. I don't know what he's gonna do. I can't tell anything. He should go back. He should. Not go back home, just go back to Albuquerque. That is home, but, well not home home, but yeah.

I got you, yeah. Not to mama's house is what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah. Do the man thing, have your own place, pay your own bills, work like a person, all that kind of stuff. That do the man thing and stand alone and then you'll like you better

and the next time you go into a relationship, you'll be a different person. Yep. Rather than. Mistakes are research. They're a good way to learn what not to do. I figured out that leaves a mark. Sam is in New York City. Hi Sam, how are you? Hey guys, thanks so much for taking my call. I really appreciate it. Sure, what's up? So, as you said by me living in New York City, I live in one of the most expensive cities in the world, but I have some money saved.

I'm not in any debt. I'm on baby step five, I guess. I don't have kids, but I'm saving for my future kids. Okay. College, I was just wondering, with the money I do have saved would it be better to invest with the volatility in the market I'm a little afraid to invest right now or just to look into buying a house or something like that.

The definition of investing is you're gonna leave the money alone at least five years. Yeah. Otherwise you're parking money or you're saving money or you're speculating. So if you're investing, I don't worry about the market's volatility because the market smooths out over time. The new story of the day that the market does a temper tantrum with, stock market's a four-year-old with a temper tantrum on a given week over a given decade the stock market's a wise old woman okay so you're looking for the wise old woman looking for the decade play and then you don't worry about market volatility I put I see the volatility but I don't care I put money in it every week I just keep putting money in now but but are you

gonna be leaving the money are you gonna be leaving the money, are you gonna be leaving it alone Sam for five years or have you got something else in mind? Well that's honestly kind of what I could. It's just, it's really just a matter of, so basically if I was to break down my money, I've got like 240 that I can't touch in retirement and just like good mutual fund investments out. And then I have, and then I've got like 75,

not like cash, but you know, like investments that I could cash out, right? And I just don't know what that, like, first of all, I just, I constantly feel like I'm just like behind the game and I'm just like, you know, not doing enough and because I don't own any property, I'm renting, like, and then-

Compared to what? What do you make? I make like, I just switch jobs jobs I just switch careers and I do sales. What are you gonna make this year Sam? So well it depends on you know if I quote us there. Sam what are you gonna make this year? Probably like 200. Okay that's what I'm thinking. All right, and so you're doing great, and you're how old, 26? 29, sir. Okay, pretty close. All right, good.

I appreciate the, you know, it made me feel good. No, you're doing really, really good. Really great. I mean, you're killing it. You're a great sales guy, you're confident, you know what you're doing, you're a saver by nature, you're stacking cash, you're doing nothing wrong, man. You're doing nothing wrong.

I mean, you might be a little heavy with the 75 sitting in cash. Some of that's in investments though, right? Yeah, yeah. It's just not in retirement. It's not retirement. That's fine, yeah. Yeah, it's just not in retirement, yeah, yes sir.

So if you're in mutual funds with some of that and some of that's your emergency fund, I think you're perfect. I just continue to stack some cash. You're not a loser because you haven't bought real estate at 29. You've already got a $300,000 net worth and you're making 200 a year.

You're on your way to millionaire, man. You'll get the real estate when the right time comes and when you settle into wherever it is you're gonna be. If it's gonna be there, that's fine. But there's nothing, you haven't done anything wrong. I think it's excellent. Way to go. I'm proud of the guy.

Well played, sir. Well played. This is The Ramsey Show. Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Jade Washa, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author, is my co-host today. Linda is in Detroit.

Hi, Linda. How are you? Linda, thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? I'm wondering if my church should go into debt to purchase a parchment. No. So, we own a home.

I figured that would be your answer. Yeah. Could I share some more information or do you want to leave it short and sweet? Sure. But I mean, that's the answer, but let's hear the details. Yeah. Okay. So, we own a home that's next door to the church and we're members at the church.

We've used this house as a rental, but now we'd like to sell it. And when we bought the house years ago, a few members that are on the church board had asked for first dibs if we ever decided to sell the house. So we gave the board the opportunity to purchase it for 210,000 on a cash offer, the home appraised at 233,000. So the board presented the opportunity to the church and then the congregation voted to go ahead with purchasing the home, but they left the option for how to

pay for the home up to the church board. So we were then presented with a counter purchase agreement, but it's a financed offer and we were really clear with the board that this was the opportunity to purchase the home for $210,000 cash. We wanted to give the church a deal as an act of goodwill. And the church has the money. They have well over $400,000 in extra savings that they have in CDs right now. And you attend this church, correct?

Yes, that's correct. Okay. But the board wants to keep that money in savings and not spend it on the home. And so we feel like we don't want to accept that mortgage offer for two reasons. One is because I don't think that the church needs to go into debt to buy the home.

It's not a need, they have the money in savings to pay cash, frankly I think it's completely foolish for the church to go into debt for it. And additionally, we buy and sell a lot of real estate. And we know that mortgage offers can tend to drag on and on. They take longer to close. Sometimes they require dumb little stuff to be fixed on the house. And so we're willing to accept less on a cash sale just for simplicity, where like, if we look at it to the public,

we would probably ask closer to the appraised value or even more to help us, you know, give us time and feel like we can put up with the nonsense that comes with a mortgage because we're getting more money for the house. So unfortunately, a lot of our friends at church have told us that we're straight up in the wrong, that we're being absolutely ridiculous to insist on a cash sale.

And I just wondered if you agree, if you think that we're being ridiculous to say that we want it to be a cash sale. And I just wondered if you agree, if you think that we're being ridiculous to say that we want it to be a cash sale. I mean, just that first pass on this, it's your property and you get to choose what offer you accept. That's thing one. But if you're attempting to control,

are you on the board at all? Are you part of that at all? Are you in leadership? No. No leadership. But I think she's a member of the church and she doesn't like what they're doing and she doesn't want to participate in it.

I'm fine with that. That part I think it's fine. And it's your property you get to choose. The only thing that I thought you do have to be careful of is trying to manipulate it too much. The side of it that's on your side is your side. That's the property side. You trying to manipulate the church side

to do what you specifically want them to do. I feel like you have to be careful of that. Well, if this was an independent issue and it wasn't your house, but the church was gonna buy another house and you're a member that has the same concern, then there's still the concern. It's still stupid. Mm-hmm. And you could voice it, but you can't control it. She's right. Well, you can't control it, because you're not part of the

leadership. The only thing, you know, you can just decide whether this is a deal breaker or not. So here's the interesting thing that you're pushing against and don't even realize probably. Larry Burkett used to say that oftentimes in churches the business leaders that are members of the church end up on the church board and so the church board can start to look like the Chamber of Commerce. It's a whole life agent, a car

dealer, and a banker, all of which believe in borrowing money. And so then the church business starts being conducted like the world conducts businesses due to the church. Where instead maybe we ought to actually say what does the Bible say about debt? And find me one time in scripture that there's a positive thing said about debt. You can't, it's not there. Find me one time in scripture that debt is used as a tool for God's kingdom, not in there anywhere. So these guys are functioning like the banker that they are, or the car dealer that they are,

or whoever it is is sitting on this church board, and they're thinking like they think down at the office instead of thinking about managing God's stuff God's ways. And that's what the breakdown is. That's the breakdown. And so I would challenge the church board to start making decisions about the church's business through the lens of scripture not through the lens of a finance professor. I think that's really good advice. Thank you for that. Yeah, I don't think they're gonna do it though. Yeah. I don't think they're gonna do it and so I think what I would do if I were in your situation I would just say you know we made you an offer we do not agree with the church going into debt to do this and the offer

was on a cash basis and that's the only way we're going to do the deal and if you don't want to do that that's okay we'll just sell the house we're fine with that yeah I agree you know we're not throwing a fit you're not throwing a temper tantrum and by the way your friends I don't know what the flip they've got to do with any of this, they don't get a vote in this. Well, friends that are on the church board that do have the vote, that are making the decision. Okay.

Yeah. Then I think they're being unreasonable. Okay. To dictate to someone how they deal with their own asset. Okay. Yeah. Thank you. how they deal with their own asset. Okay. Yeah, this is, you know, so if you, I guess if you've got friends on the church board, maybe you need to tell them, let's, why don't we use the Bible as our guideline?

Since we're in church and all. Oh, there's a novel thought. You know, and instead of you telling me about how you're going to be wise and hoard cash over here. Man, this sounds like some drama. This is some drama. You know, I didn't, I didn't start the fight. They didn't. I mean, all you did was offer selling the house and then they got all up in your business telling you how to do stuff because they're a freaking car dealer. Which one is one of them? A car dealer or a banker. Am I right? Yes. Oh man. Almost like I've done this before. Oh man. So yeah I mean it here's the thing I had to decide years ago that I'm not going to leave a church over this kind of stuff

okay unless there's an integrity issue because this kind of stuff is in every church every day. The happens to be the church that I go to now. The pastor has been a good friend for many years and he believes in the stuff we teach and runs the thing debt-free. But the church I was at before that borrowed money and I didn't leave over them borrowed money and I'm freaking Dave Ramsey. So I mean you know know come on so we're not trying to pick a fight all the time but I do challenge pastors and church boards or elders or deacon boards or whatever you want to call them it's your place to use the Bible as your guideline instead of what they taught you in finance class and when you're handling God's assets by the way they're

all God's assets including yours but yeah, they're all God's assets, including yours. But yeah, so, but I can't always get them to do it. And I have to just be friends with them anyway. And I've got lots of friends that do things wrong. And they're still my friends. That's true. That scene y'all were playing out though. That sounded like a movie. That sounded like a movie scene. Keep you calm and still be smiling while you're doing it all. There you go, there you go.

This is the Ramsey Show. And say God bless your heart at the end. Bless your heart, yeah. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thanks for being with us. Samantha is in Chicago. Hey, Samantha, what's up? Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure, how can we help? Hey, Samantha, what's up? Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure. How can we help? So just to preface, I want to say that I have more views that are in accordance to you about

saving, being debt-free, all of that, than my husband is more on the line of investing into business. So I have a question about investing into farming for first generation farmers. So my husband and I started our own hay business three years ago, because it's always been his dream. And then we've just been building it up slowly as a side business alongside our regular jobs. Um, last year we bought a $12,000 tractor that we still own, but that is 0% interest because it's just through a farmer, not a bank. And then this year we bought a $20,000 tractor so we would have two tractors and then just start upgrading our equipment slowly and that tractor has an 8.4% interest rate

through a bank. My husband's point of view was that the tractor's profit that it would bring in would pay itself off in two years versus if we didn't get it right now then we would probably be saving for two years versus if we didn't get it right now then we would probably be saving for about five years before we could afford it. So we want to know if you think that it was a bad idea to invest in this equipment and if you think that we should just be cash flowing all these big purchases since we're new to farming. Farming is a business. Yes. Anytime you borrow money in business you increase your risk, your probability of failure. Yes.

The more money you borrow, the more likely you are to fail. The number one cause of small business failure is cash flow problems and the number one cause of cash flow problems is debt. The more you borrow, It's cash flow problems and the number one cause of cash flow problems is debt. The more you borrow, the higher probability is you fail. Yeah. Simple. And he acts like there's no risk involved and that's absolute bull crap.

Of course there's risk involved. You're freaking farming. Of course there's risk involved. You're freaking farming. Of course there's risk involved. I mean, the very nature of farming is we don't know what the crop's going to be. It's not predictable. He acts like it's automatic. It's not automatic that in two years, it's not automatic that it's going to take five years to buy a tractor either. So we encourage all businesses to in the name of sustainability in the name of probability of success to avoid debt and I avoid that I avoid that I've grown this business for 30 years with never borrowing a dime and I've invested

heavily into the business but it was all profit that went back into the business yeah I'm sitting in a building that you know the campus here is about six hundred million dollars cash Cash no debt there's also them. Yeah, the the mental side of it I think for whatever reason people break it up mentally and they go well Personal debt is my personal debt and business that is business debt. But at the end of the day, the same person owes both of those debts. Do you see what I'm saying? So it's-

So that's another lie. Yeah. At the end of the day, you're still liable for it. Yeah, and we can find all of that. Mm-hmm. Yeah, you're liable. That farmer doesn't care whether that you bought the tractor from and financed it with,

he doesn't care whether the hay comes in or not. He wants his money. That's right. That banker that's got eight and a half percent on that. They don't care. They don't care if your husband falls and breaks his leg and then able to drive the tractor and bring the crop in. Yeah.

Uh, they don't care if somebody else in the family gets ill. And so he's unable to, because he has to take care of his family in another way or enabled to cut hay. Uh, they don't care. They just want the money period. So you have to decide what, whatever your philosophy is. If you choose, like this is my philosophy in life, then this is my philosophy in life. Whether personal, I've had this argument. I mean, I've been,

I grew up in rural America. I'm not anti-farm. I'm pro farm, but I've had this argument with farmers. They act like they're, like they get somehow a pass on math because I'm pro farm, but I've had this argument with farmers. They act like they get somehow a pass on math because I'm a farmer. You don't get a pass on math. Math is math, whether you run a heat and air company or whether you run a farm or whether you run a real estate business.

I don't care what you run, math is gonna kick your butt if you screw with it. And y'all are messing with it. You're asking for trouble. You're begging for problems because these purchases are made only the only way this all works in his theory is if everything goes exactly as planned and the number of things times things go exactly as planned is precisely zero. Yeah luckily I like I'm more very much into budgeting and financing. So

if he keeps buying tractors on credit, I know. Yeah. I have it worked out. So I'm not including any of the income from the hay business and we can have it both of those tractors paid off and 16 months and all of our other. No, now you're assuming now you're assuming and presuming on the future. I'm also assuming that we're going to keep our jobs and be okay. Can you spell COVID? Yeah. You can't predict the future and you can't out-earn bad money habits for very

long. Like that's, there's going to be an end to that. So, no, I teach people to never borrow money on their business because I want their small business to thrive. I want farmers to thrive. I love farmers and I don't want them spending their whole life paying a dad gum combine payment because it's got GPS and air conditioning. And that's necessary to ROI in today's world. Bull crap.

ROI is called return on investment and that includes factoring in risk. If you're a sophisticated business person, you factor in risk, and you all are ignoring risk in this. So if you keep on this track, you're gonna go broke, because you're acting, the track is there's no risk, I can just, I'll always make more than the tractor payment, and I'll be okay, and that is a falsehood. That's what I'm saying.

It's a falsehood, just gonna bite you, bite you hard. So no, I don't think you did a smart thing and no, I don't think you are doing smart things. Steve is in Richmond, Virginia. Hi Steve, how are you? Hi, thank you for taking my call. Sure, what's up? I have a question about risk.

So I am, I'm 64, I'm retired, I'm an everyday millionaire, I have a piece of commercial real estate that was part of a business that I sold that I still own. It's a triple net lease and I've got five years left on the lease and I'm just wondering when I should sell it. The, the kind of a wrinkle in the ointment is that I have, it's in a rural area and it's owned by a big corporation. They're having some trouble attracting people to move out to rural areas to work. So when the lease is up in five years, I'm not sure what's going to happen. And so, you know, I feel like I have a

great deal at the moment. Things are going very well. I don't really want to own it if it's empty in five years. And I just don't, I don't know, help me out trying to frame this and understand the smart way to make this decision. Well, the property is going to be valued based on the lease. Commercial property, we've placed values on the commercial property based on the income it produces. And the lease has got a fuse burning that's five years long. And so if I'm buying this, I'm going to value it based on it being empty in five years. And so, and that's better than if I'm buying it and it's going to be empty in two years. Right. And that's better than if I buy it

and it's going to be empty in eight months. Or it's empty. Oh, now we got a real deal, right? Okay. So, you know, what I'm looking at, at if I'm you is what's the probability they turn this around and they stay there is it 50-50 is it 90-10 you know that's kind of what you got to think about because you've got actually some actual insight into the situation thank God right and so if you think there it's 50-50 or less that they going to be there in five years if I'm you I'm selling that now Okay Because you're gonna have a problem right and the problem the closer the fuse gets to the bomb

The heart the less value the property has and the less marketability it has Is that right No, that's exactly right. And I have, honestly, I get calls all the time from some various groups who, I mean, it's got five years in the lease, they are very happy to buy these properties. Yeah, you probably got some reach lining up to take it out. What's the value of it? It was appraised a few years ago, it was $600,000. Okay, so you'd probably get a million out of it and you could probably do a 1031 and

roll that into something that you think has a better long-term future than you think this does. But if you think there's a 90% probability they're going to renew and stay and you want to hold it, then I would hold it. All we're doing here is looking at the probability risk. Like you said, you accurately said it when you opened up the call. Good question, Steve. You're thinking correctly.

Jack is in Chicago. Hey, Jack, welcome to the Ramsey Show. How are you today, Dave? Better than I deserve. What's up? Yeah, looking for some advice here. I've been in my job for about two years now and just really burning out I'm not sure if I should take time off and then go back to the job or should just completely quit and figure out you know what truly makes me happy if it's a

different industry or different job in general you know made it around 157,000 last year. I'm 25 years old. What's the burnout? I think one, just not really believing in the product and two, being ADHD. If I don't truly enjoy it, I have a time where before I just hate it. So that's not burnout, it's just inability to stick with something.

Yeah, could be that as well. If it's the ADHD related, how do you see that playing out long term? Will you just, and I'm not asking this to be facetious, I'm truly asking, if you feel like it's related to that, how will that affect other jobs? Will you experience the same thing? Yeah, I mean that's what I'm afraid of because, you know, you know, I've afraid of because you know, you know, I've always thought about that since you know, I had my IEP in fourth grade, like is this gonna be like something that happens constantly or is it you know, I just gotta keep changing until I find what I truly like. So you know, it's

something I think about every day. Maybe I'm just you know, being a wuss and I should just muck it up and keep going or you know, maybe taking time off to like figure out if it truly is that or if it's you know more of the burnout side. I mean have you put it out on paper? You're not burnout let's just establish that you need to quit using that phrase okay. You're not burnout you're distracted maybe and maybe you don't believe in the product but neither one of those are burnout. Okay burnout is you've been working 80 hours a week and you hate everything in your life the whole thing

is toxic and none of that has come up you just don't like the product and and you're have trouble staying on task for 40 straight hours a week. That's what you told me right? Yeah I mean similar work probably you know 60 hours a week. Okay yeah me too. It was a tougher job. Yeah me too. 60 hours a week doesn't create burnout. Burnout comes when you're doing something you hate with people you hate. I feel like getting this on paper and kind of having a cat I like things on paper where I can see it with my actual pen in my hand and having the category that's like this is,

these are the things that are gonna be present with any job no matter what. I'm gonna have to work 40 to 60 hours, I'm gonna have to do things that I sometimes don't like. Right, you've got that category of things that are kind of non-negotiables, they're there in any job no matter what. And then you've got the things that you know

are related to ADHD, which is, like you said, staying on task might be a little bit tough and you've got that column. And then you've got the things that you know are related to ADHD, which is like you said, staying on task might be a little bit tough, and you've got that column, and then you've got the column of things that really are specific to this specific job that you don't enjoy. Let me tell you, the deal breaker in the whole conversation, you're right,

and that goes on this list of things, is I don't believe in the product. You should not be doing something that you don't believe in the product long term. It's not good for you, it's not good for you, it's not good for the customer. It's not good for them. Yeah. Cause for the first year and a half, like top performer, I liked the product better than, but you know, I, I have,

why don't you like the problem? Why did you lose? Uh, why did you fall out of love with the product? Yeah. Uh, well, so like the first year, year and a half, I was selling different products. And then I changed teams and now I'm on this team. I just like the reason why I don't believe it is because there isn't enough data out there to figure out okay is that truly working plus it's expensive and it's a big commitment and so that's where my trouble is like. Okay. So can you go back to the old product? No I mean you have to, you can't, our company doesn't do that. Okay, then so I would not tell you

to keep selling a product regardless of how we start the conversation or in the conversation. I would not tell you to keep a job long term where you don't believe in it. It's not again, it's not good for you, it's not good for the company, it's not good for the customer, nobody's winning here. So and I if somebody, if you work for me and you said I don't believe in in this thing, I tell you, go look for something, man, go find something you love, go find something you believe in. Um, it doesn't invalidate the product just cause you don't like it. It just, you don't want to do it. That's okay. You know,

there's stuff that I think is valid out there that, um, you know, but so, if you're especially, especially in sales, you've got to really like it, the thing you're selling and you're especially, especially in sales, you've got to really like it. The thing you're selling and you gotta believe it's good for people because you feel like you're serving then rather than manipulating. Yeah, of course.

Do you, quickly, yeah, do you think it's wise to take some time off travel for a couple months and then come back to it? No. Or should I have my next role lined up? No, you need to go get something else and do something else. Okay. You don't get a gap year in the middle of your career. Yeah.

You can, but that's not normal. If you want to do some traveling, take your PTO time at the next place and go travel. And that's fine, but you know, you're not a 21 year old senior in college that just graduates taking a gap year. I'm gonna go hike Europe before I start my life. That's not where you are.

You're like a grown man and stuff. So, no. I'm... Unless he's got a bunch of money sitting somewhere we don't know about. I still wouldn't do it. I just keep moving. And because he's looking for happiness

in all the wrong places. And the idea that I don't have to, if I'm not working, I'm gonna be happy and that's bull. Now you're working at the wrong thing. That's why you're not happy. It's not because you're working. Work is not evil and work doesn't kill you and work doesn't burn you out.

None of those are true things. But working at stuff you don't believe in will do all of that. So, hey, hang on, we're gonna give you a copy of Ken Coleman's book, Find the Work You're Wired to Do, and it has in there a wonderful assessment that is really good for self, to do some self analysis on, and you what is it I want to do and by the way I will tell

you this the the is he gone I guess he's gone oh well anyway the the best salesman I know including me have a touch of ADD. Okay, have a touch of I can't stay on task because they like moving from thing to thing to thing to thing to thing and sales is a good, it's a good field for that. And you can make a ton of money and you can serve people and be proud of what you do and be tired sometimes

but not be burnt out. And so, yeah, that's what I would do. What are you laughing at? I'm gonna take a gap year. Hey, you never know. I am truly a boomer. That's when I know it's just, it's over. I'm completely over there in the old guy column.

I mean you didn't even consider it, did you? No, I didn't even. And no, no I didn't. Matt, Matt's in St. Louis. Hey Matt, what's up? Hey Dave, hey Jade, how are you guys? Great, how can we help? So, basically I want to get your advice for my wife and I. So I'm self-employed. She's going to stay at home mom for, I don't know, 12 years, probably at this point. Being a

business owner, we have, not because we're business owners, but we did start retirement savings a little later in life. So collectively between the two of us and our Vanguard accounts we have about $80,000. How old are you? 43. What do you make? Well my company pays me about 65. Top line revenues range anywhere because there is a seasonal component. You own the company. Yeah. So what is your taxable income sir? Last year was $4.95 but typically... Where's all the money going? Well we're sitting on north of $500 in cash and we have you know a home, cars, well that's the thing. I don't like having all those soldiers sitting on the sidelines I just don't really know what to do with it we do max out our retirement accounts every year but I don't know that's gonna be enough you haven't been doing that for long no we have not like two years oh yeah

approximately so yeah so it's been one of those I don't know exactly what to do I know enough to be dangerous, right? You're making great money. Congratulations. I'm proud of you. What's what kind of business is this? It's an automotive restoration, you know, detailing. Good for you. You're working your butt off, man.

What's the top line? I am indeed. Last year we did 1.5. I'm proud of you. Good, man. All right. So you're making a half million dollars a year and you got a half million stashed and you need to learn how to save it and invest it, right? Correct. Good. Now you have a new task. So go to ramsysolutions.com and click on SmartVestor and sit down with one of the SmartVestor Pros and let them teach

you, not do it for you, but teach you and then the two of you together will make the decisions and you're gonna get those soldiers off the sidelines and now you got a half million dollars moving towards your 80,000 and we're gonna be millionaires pretty quick with our retirement plan. Our question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi. WhyRefi refinances defaulted private student loans that other places won't touch. It helps you get your life back. So kick the private student loan debt to the curb.

Use WhyRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey might not be in all states. Alright, today's question comes from Jenna in Nevada. She says, my husband is in the military. I am a stay at home mom and we're in our mid 30s. He really wants to purchase a cyber truck which will cost about $80,000. We take home roughly $150,000 a year and our net worth is just over 950,000. I drive a 2011 car which runs fine.

Our only debt is 250,000 on a home, which is valued at 750,000. I hope you're tracking with me. We have 420,000 in investments, 50,000 in cash, and 20,000 of that is our emergency fund. I want to pay off the house before making luxury purchases. We'd save up to pay cash for this Cybertruck and trade in his current truck, which is worth

about $30. Is it unfair for me to be unsupportive of his dream and our current financial situation? All right, let's sum it up. That was a lot of numbers, a lot of numbers. So they want to buy the Cybertruck, it's 80,000. He could trade in his current truck, get 30 for that. Plus they have 30 available. They have 50 in cash.

Yeah, but 20 of it is their emergency fund. So that gives them 30. So now they've got 60. So they gotta pull money out of an investment. So yeah, and I mean, honestly, here's the thing. 950,000, let's go ahead and round that up to a million. It could be there tomorrow, depending on what anybody in the offices do.

So I would round that up to a million for this. I'm not gonna be a Pharisee on that. And then yeah, if you wanna talk about the rule of it being no more than half of your take home, you're right on the line there. I still think it would be fine. Dave, you can stop me, but I think it'd probably be fine to do it. You save up the other 20 if you want to. I would be fine with doing this. You save the other 20. I probably wouldn't sell off anything in order to do it. I'd probably just save it up right quick.

And I think it'd be fine to do it. You guys just have to decide together because in your mind, safe doing the house is the next thing. And in his mind, you guys have worked really hard and now it's time to live a little. And I totally understand that. If I had to vote, I'd be on his side. Hmm. Well, we'd be voting against each other.

Would we? Yeah, it fits with our guidelines for him to do this. You're right about that. So I'll go with your vote on that. Because the guidelines are baby steps four, five, and six to be intentional, not intense, pay cash for whatever you're doing, and he's doing all that. So in baby steps four, five, and six, you're putting 15% of your income away for retirement, you're putting kids' college away,

and you're paying extra on the house to have the house paid off as baby step six. During that time is when you would buy a new couch, a new car, go on a vacation, and do some other things. And every one of those other things you do slows down the paying off of the house. That's correct. And so the only thing that bothers me about this is-

The brand new factor? Well, no, they're only gonna million dollars, so they're not worth a million dollars. I'm with you on that. I mean, yeah, but I always like to save money. So for me, I'd still maybe look for something something used but it's not technically wrong if you did. It's hard to relate to the cyber truck thing anyway. But the uh um but the yeah so the thing I'm thinking about is okay if I'm the guy sitting here and I'm looking at my wife and we have a mortgage of 250, am I gonna buy me a truck, my dream, which sounds like

a little boy talk, not man talk, while my house is still sitting there with a mortgage. So I'm, I, you know, when Sharon and I were doing this, we would have bought something nice, but we probably wouldn't have pushed the edge of everything and played the dream card. I See so you're she played he played the dream card that pissed me off. I hear you. I don't like it I don't like him playing the dream card on his wife Yeah, am I am I wrong because she feels like she's the only grown-up in the thing now because the little boy wants this Hypertracking mommy won't let him have it and that's that's the way this is framed and and you know what Dave?

I'm gonna give you, not that you need a check on your side, but I am putting a check on your side of the board because they're in their mid-30s. So it's not like they've been at this for 30 years and finally he's getting his thing. Yeah, I'm fine calling it a draw because you legally can do it under our guidelines.

So that's a draw, right? Okay? According to our guidelines, you are meeting everything we teach, okay? In baby steps four, five, and six, and being intentional. But then I have to put my shoes on and go, okay, if I'm in your shoes, what would I do? Which is how I answer.

They have to agree about it. Number one, you gotta agree about it. And I don't want, it's not fair for him to put you in a position that you're being unsupportive of his dreams If your dream is a cyber trick, you need a better dream A bigger dream seriously Okay, so that's I mean really I mean if your dream is a car of any kind

And and you play this emotional card with your wife. Yeah. Yeah, you need a different dream. My dream is You know extreme wealth extreme generosity It should include both of them and you know, that's my dream and that in somewhere in the in the Byproduct is some great cars. We'll get some cars. I got a nice car. I guess that My truck costs more than this one. So it's okay, Dave, be honest. If we were talking about anything but a cyber truck, would you change your mind? You probably got me there. You probably affected my answer. But I just, what I'm always looking for is the language that we're using with each other.

And I don't like where she's sitting. Is it unfair of me to be unsupportive of his dream? It's a little manipulative. A little manipulative. On his part. You know, she's like, you know, it's like, I love it in the Christian world when somebody plays the God card. Well, God told me, well, I can't argue with you now because God told you.

You know, I was like, but God told you something that's not consistent with scripture, so that wasn't God. It's last night's pizza. You ought to go back and check that. It wasn't the Holy Spirit. It might have been a spirit. But, you know, that kind of stuff. They start playing the God card.

It's the same thing, right? It's this thing. So, God told me, well, I'm done now. You can't argue with that, so, because it's God. But if it is, yeah. So that's the trick. And so that's always… Jenna, that's the bigger problem than the Cybertruck if you both said okay, we like doing this

I we both want to buy this and it wasn't couched in the thing of it's my dream or I'm the unsupportive wife I'm the nag and he's the Hero who's in the military and I should let him have whatever he wants. Let's not go there Let's say together we sat down and we both agree that this is an okay purchase in our situation Do you guys think it's okay? Then we would go. Yeah, it's okay. Yes. I'm with that. Okay. Yeah, so yeah, and it's okay It's not what I would do but it's okay. Yes, what I would do is I pay down on the house I think I would too or it's okay. What I would do is I'd pay down on the house. I think I would too. Or I would just.

I want that house paid off man. Because I gotta tell you, once you got your house paid off, you walk different man. It's a, everything looks different. You got a little swagger you didn't have before. And you know, you gotta pay for a house that's worth a million dollars or 750 grand here, right, that's a. And his or 750 grand here is said, right?

That's a... And his current truck sounds, seems like it's all right if it's still worth 30,000. Yeah. I mean, they're okay. It's not, it really wasn't that, but it's just, it's a good discussion. It is. Because one of the things you want to look for is, and I look for it, we look for it here on the air, but you need to look for it with each other.

Yeah. I do the, you know, am I manipulating Sharon to get her to do something? You know, am I playing that card or is she trying to manipulate me? Is she giving me the eye roll or something, right? You know, that kind of thing. And so how is this going on? Because this matters more than the actual decision

because it's the framework in which you make all of your decisions. That's right. And everybody's gotta feel good about it. It's your money, so you both have to feel good about the decisions you're making with your money. That's good and everybody's got to feel good about it. It's your money so you both have to feel good about the decisions you're making with your money. That's good. You know what I'm saying? When you guys can get aligned on something and both of you are at least moderately excited about the direction then you

you that's way more important than the actual direction. That's right. That's right. Because you will go get you will get it then. You're correct. And that these couples that stand on this stage and do the debt-free screams, the unity of direction that they all have is pretty incredible. I had a similar discussion, Sharon was driving one of those nasty old two-tone blue Astro vans, you remember those things? The kid had like 900 million miles on it. I'm like, I got 20,000 bucks, I need to do some stuff at the office. She's like, no, I need a car. And you know what we figured out?

We did both, but we did her car first and moved her up into a suburban and she needed it. She was right. So it's okay. Just talk it through, right? Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show where we help people build wealth, do work that they love and create actual amazing relationships. Jade Washa, Ramsey personality, number one bestselling author as my co-host today.

Jelani is with us in New York. Hi Jelani, how are you? Hey Dave, I'm good, how's it going? Better than I deserve, what's up? So I'm kind of in a tough spot right now, I owe over $100,000. I'm kind of lost right now, I don't know if I should file bankruptcy, I just need some advice. Wow, what do you owe a hundred thousand on man? So I'm just getting over a gambling problem. So most of it is credit cards, eighty thousand credit cards, eighty five hundred and

student loans and I have eleven thousand five hundred on my card. How long you've been dry? About one month. Good for you. Congratulations. What kind of gambling were you doing? Online gambling is kind of bad Okay on like poker or what? It's a game called lightning dice

Okay, yeah ice game. Okay, cool Cuz we're seeing a lot of it with what you're doing and we're seeing a lot of it with sports gambling to sports betting That's why I was asking. All right. Uh, cause we're seeing a lot of it with, uh, what you're doing and we're seeing a lot of it with sports gambling too, sports betting. That's why I was asking. All right. So, um, so you've gotten some help. You're in gamblers anonymous and you've got some good therapy going, right? No, I'm actually not. I just, you know, I just went quick, went cold turkey. Had to stop. Uh, you probably ought to have somebody walking with you, dude.

Right. Right. So check out GA for gamblers anonymous. It's like alcoholics anonymous but for gamblers and check out somebody in your area that does therapy and that can be a counselor for you. I wouldn't want to work out of that by myself and I'm a strong dude. I would have somebody walking with me if it was me. And I'm pretty disciplined, okay. So, yeah, it's good to have somebody in your corner that stays inside your brain to help you stay dry. Absolutely.

Because sobriety is the only way you survive this, okay. You've got to stay out of it, right? Right. So what do you make what's your income um I make a brown 110 to 140 thousand a year depends what do you do I drive trucks okay good for you okay so you were a little bored out there running around and that's how you got into this that makes sense okay and you're that's yet another reason you need somebody in your corner cuz you. Okay and you're that's yet another reason you need somebody in your corner because you're you're you're alone a lot. Yeah you're single guy no no kids no girlfriend nothing like that. I have a girlfriend.

Okay good okay. She know about all this? Yes she do. Good that's healthy. Good for you. I'm proud of you man for stopping it and for recognizing. So what we gotta do now is go to the scorched earth, no life place where you don't get to do anything except pay this money back for a while. And you dig, the faster, the deeper you cut into your lifestyle and do nothing except pay debts, eat peanut butter and jelly, eat beans and rice, that's it. And we're not doing anything fancy, we're not going on vacations, we're gonna clean up the mess. The faster, the harder you cut,

the faster you get out. Does that make sense? Yes, it makes sense. And that's a good thing because, you know, I'm no therapist or anything like that, but typically when you have something that's been such a big part of your life in your habits Just removing it is not enough. You have to replace it with something else, right? And so now you're replacing it with this getting out of debt business That's you working and doing all the things that Dave said and so you're you're replacing one habit for another habit Which is now a healthy habit. Right it all started since I mean like since around Thanksgiving time you know I was only 30k in depth and then ever since

Thanksgiving it shut up. Even more reason to get getting community like like Dave said, getting that gamblers anonymous, get with a therapist. You're going to need that. Yeah. Anybody would. Yeah. That's just good. That's good practice. Cause what I'm trying to do is get the high prize probability situation for you to win and be wealthy 10 years from now. And that obviously win means not gambling anymore. Okay. That's what, when not win at gambling gambling but when I had life

Yeah, that's And then what we're gonna do is we're gonna list these debts smallest to largest Pay minimum payments on everything with a little one and we're gonna tack the little one with a vengeance like our life depends on it Beans and rice rice and beans no life're throwing everything in the budget at the debt. When the smallest one's gone, you take the payment you used to pay there and any other money we can squeeze out of our life and we throw it at the next one,

we throw it at the next one, we throw it at the next one. And you work like a crazy man. You take every route you can take and you just completely lean into this. So let's say you went to all the way from 140, let's take you all the way up to 150 because you're just working all the time.

Now how fast can you get 80 making 150? Well you gotta live on 70 and you do it in one year. Right. That's how you, that's why that math works. So that's the type of intensity I'm talking about. So I mean you need to do this in a year to 18 months because that indicates the intensity by which you're running from You're running straight into the problem and from the thing that caused the problem the gambling. That's right. So yeah, that's that's very good

Good for you, man. I'm proud of you hang on for you. We're gonna be we're gonna be rooting for you Hang on. I'm gonna give you every dollar our premium budgeting app and it also guides you through our baby steps exactly what to do first what to do second and all the way through to wealth and all the way out of this debt and you're gonna be great man I'm proud of you if you need help call us back anytime Jelani we're here for you proud of your sobriety keep it up man it's really really good Amy's in Fort Worth hi Amy what's Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. Sure.

So my husband and I built a house, a new house in 2023 and it went way over budget. We're trying to get back on track and go through the Ramsey steps and we need to see do we need to sell the house, keep the house because we're obviously not where we need to be for retirement. Okay. It didn't go over budget, you did. You know, that is correct, 100%. We definitely went over budget and everything that was itemized, it was like from painters dropping out and having to find new workers, everything was way off. Yeah, you got a house building problem. Yeah. Okay. So what do you guys make? Ten-7. Okay, and when you say take home pay, do you mean after taxes or after taxes,

401k and everything else that comes out of my check? After everything comes out. Okay, so what we mean by take home pay is after taxes only. Oh, okay. Not after, are you got money coming out for 401k? We do, that's including life insurance, I'm sorry, health insurance, everything. Yeah, you gotta keep your health insurance, but you stop your 401k? We do. That's including life insurance, I'm sorry, health insurance, everything. You got to keep your health insurance but you stop your

401k temporarily. Okay. And you attack this debt. How much debt have we got? So not counting the house? Not counting the house. Credit cards we have $400 left. Oh good. And no car payments. No debt of any kind but the mortgage. That is correct. Oh okay great great. You have any money in savings? So 15,000. Okay. Do you hate the house? We love the house and we love the location. Okay I'd keep fighting. I don't think you're at 40% I think you're at 30% when we take out all the other junk. And I wouldn't stop your 401k. I'm sorry, I had you in the wrong baby step.

So I put 15% of your income away on retirement and it's going to be tight for a little while because you did go over budget on your house. You went over budget on your house. But I think you're going to be okay. I just fight through it. It doesn't sound like it's killing you. It just sounds tight. Holly is with us in Salt Lake City.

Hi Holly, how are you? Good, how are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? So I've, I have a collection of Pokemon cards that hit really hard during the Pokemon Go era, but we did pretty well in the valuation of them. So I'm debating whether to buy a blanket sell them for around $75,000 or to sell them individually with some work on my end for around 125,000

and then put that into retirement. Okay good. Why would you not go the slow route and get an extra 50 grand? It's because I'm 33 and my husband's 36 and we don't have any retirement. I mean how long would it take you to sell them off individually? For what they should be valued at, probably two or three years. Okay. So, you know, I would invest up to a year to make an extra 50,000, maybe not two or three years. Right. It also would include some money on our end of getting things certified, graded, things like that.

Okay, so it's not a net 50. That's where the question is. Yeah, it's not a net 50 then. What will it cost, what will your cost be to make the extra 50,000 in addition to your one year of time? I assume in the bad end it would be half. Okay. So you can make 25,000 correct. If you slow sell it net. Yes. Okay. Not a bad part-time job. No. Especially since you're like, especially since you're an expert. Yes. I've been doing this since 2000. Yeah. Okay. I was born in 1992. So I've had them for a really long time. Could you do it any? It's also the thought of keeping them, to keep them as collectibles.

Well, okay, let's first go back to your original thing. Let me make sure I've heard your proposal correctly. Okay, I can blanket sell them, be done with a Pokemon game completely for $75k or I can slow sell them and make another $50,000 with $25,000 worth of expenses so I make a net of another $25,000 and I might be able to do that in a year. Correct. Okay. I would do B, make an extra $25,000. Alright.

Okay. Unless you've got some kind of emotional issue with these things and I don't hear that. I hear someone who's very business-like in your approach. I have a very addictive personality to opening said Pokemon card packs and then they get squirreled away and I never look at them until I'm ready to like, oh I need to buy something else and so they're easy, they're super easy to sell, which is great. But the ones that I have scrolled away are the ones that are the worth the, the large amounts of money. Sure. Sure. Do you have any more? Will you follow through and sell all of them in 12 months? If that is your program?

If that was, if I, yes, I could. Okay. All right. Yeah. So, but in other words, you're not gonna let the enjoyment of the old hobby get in the way of getting rid of them. No, because I received new enjoyment from opening new Pokemon cards. So that's where, that satisfies my personality. You're not buying anymore though, right?

That's what I'm saying. I think you're still, you're not keeping buying them? No, we stopped in, so there was the Pokemon Go era, there was a significant push into the re-release of the original. Got you. And then I was able to stop after that part. Okay, good. But I acknowledge that that is something that I could see myself being. And you said you're married. Correct.

Okay, so I think we write this down in a little one page deal that you and your husband are making that we're not, A, not buying anymore, B, we're going to divest of them slowly with certifications and make an extra $25,000 and do that over the next 12 months to have zero Pokemon cards in our house 12 months from today. And you write that down and then that helps you stick to it. Correct, and he's in the same, he has the same tendencies that I do.

I know, so write them down. So write it down so that you remember when your brain was working what you promised yourself. Correct. That's what I do, okay. So now, go ahead. I'm just curious, Holly, is this like the same packs of cards that my kids get? what you promised yourself. Correct. That's what I do. Okay. So now go ahead. I'm just curious, Holly,

is this like the same packs of cards that my kids get? Like how much did you spend on Pokemon cards to finally make this collection? I'm just curious. So not including the ones that I have from my childhood, there was a time when they released the re-release of said Pokemon cards that I cannot tell you exactly how much money we spent on field boxes of these re-release cards. Got you. Okay.

You don't have to go into it. I just was curious if it was like we spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on this or if you really spent like 80 bucks. You think when you sell it for 120 or 100 you really spent like you think you're gonna make when you sell for a hundred and twenty or a hundred thousand bucks net you think you will have made a profit yes okay good that's that's what I was getting it yeah all right so now let's go let's go to the other part of it let's go the other part of the question because it's great for the audience and it's great for you as well there is a category of investing called collectibles collectibles would include fine art, it

would include fine wine, it would include fire, unique firearms, it would include classic cars, Pokemon cards, you know that kind of stuff. Ok, and so collectibles is a category. In general, collectibles does not keep up with real estate or mutual funds as a rate of return. The exception to that is when you put your expertise and labor into it. And if you take that with a collectible, if you're an art dealer,

you can make more money dealing art than you can in mutual funds but the average cat collecting fine art and putting it on his wall does not end up making more it's not a good category of investing unless you combine expertise and time with it okay like I'm a firearms enthusiast. I shoot a lot, I hunt birds, I do all these things with firearms and I have my whole life and so I know a lot about guns. So my gun collection is has a different level of value than just an

old boy stacking guns somewhere. Not because I'm not a world-class expert, but I know enough that I can add that expertise and I'm also not collecting guns as an investment. It is a hobby, but I have increased the value of the collection, but that's with expertise. People do that, like if you really know a lot about classic cars and you're buying and selling food and with cars, you can make make money doing that but that starts to be a business More than an investment when you get a collectible at that level art dealer It's a business rather than a collectible. So collectibles as a category. We don't substitute for investments We keep those in the hobby

Bucket and if they go up in value because of our enthusiasm or knowledge great but we're not gonna say we're gonna do that instead of a Roth IRA that would be dumb. Yeah I got you that's really interesting call. That's great. Yeah very cool and she's very dialed in on it I mean. Yeah she knows her stuff that's why I was asking I'm like cuz my my son. I'm like, let me see what these cards are valued at. Yeah, we found the ones from 34 years, 30 years ago in the closet from one of the kids.

They and somebody looked them up and about passed out. Yeah. Yeah, but they they were in the bottom of the closet. Not exactly an investment. Okay, so and those beanie babies didn't work out either. I knew you're gonna bring up the Beanie Babies. The Beanie Babies. Rachel posted that, that was funny. She said, where can I go and trade my Princess Diana bear for a house? That was a big one, yeah.

That was the one I'm gonna trade for a house. Where is it you go to trade it for a house? Oh man. That was a great post, funny. Yeah, the Beanie Baby craze. We actually had people during that time, call us, that had liquidated their retirement to buy beanie babies because they were such a good investment. Huge. Wow. When you look back on that,

you think how stupid, but there was such a craze around it. There was. It's just crazy. Yeah. Usually these things go in fads back and forth. The other one was everybody started buying emus. Oh, like the bird? Yeah, like emu farms. Because they were going to be the new beef. Oh! Yeah, we went through a time. We actually had people call on the show that went broke buying emu farms.

That is a new one for me. Wow. Tastes like chicken. Not really. This is the Ramsey Show. Tastes like chicken, not really. This is the Ramsey Show. If you're tired of living paycheck to paycheck and you're wondering where your money's going, your first step is to get on a budget. Our team's hosting a free budget training, several of them this month. Free. You'll learn step by step how to make and stick to your plan using EveryDollar.

Plus you get your biggest budgeting questions answered in live Q&A. These are free trainings on getting your act together. Spots are limited. Sign in for free. Sign up for free at every dollar dot com slash webinar Kristen is in Phoenix hi Kristen welcome to the Ramsey show hi thank you I am 37 single no kids I've been unemployed now since July of 24 outside of my house payment I have no car payment no loans. I've wiped out savings and emergency funds. I have about 20,000 in credit cards. Do I sell my house or dive into my 401k? I have about 198,000 in there. Why are you not working? I am looking, I've applied to over 2000 jobs.

I'm getting turned down for being over, overqualified. Um, I'm sure it's not the first time you heard it's a tough job market so I am struggling for the first time in life. What's your what's your profession what do you do? I was last a VP of operations so anything efficiency effectiveness process improvement for companies I've been doing that about 16 years. And what were you making when you did that? 185. Okay. So you, why did you leave that job? I was laid off from the company. They were a smaller business.

I wanted to just have family members working there. My next question for you would be, was that the only job that you had that title or have you done that before? Does that make sense? Uh-huh. Yeah, I've been an operation advisor for companies on a consulting level and then had other variations of that role, but that was the first time for that particular title. And are you getting like, is it I'm applying for these jobs and I'm just, it's crickets or are you going in for that first interview and then they're not asking you back for a second interview?

Can you explain a little bit more of what's taking place or is it a little of both? It's a mixture of both. I'm getting a lot of entry level conversations, but they're just baffled that I want an entry level position. Obviously I just need money. They don't want to hire someone and then have them leave shortly after. I'm getting conversations where, you know, there's just, you know, thousands of applicants because of the market. So it's really tough to even get a foot in the door. So you are applying for positions that you're overqualified for. I guess that's my question. Are you, why are you not qualified? Why are you not applying for jobs that are in line

with the types of jobs you should be applying for? Yeah, I'm applying for stuff I'm overqualified for, underqualified for, anything that is within my reach because I just need a conversation. Got you. I'm applying for jobs where I'm overqualified because I just need to make money and I can't, they're hesitant to bring someone on,

they're like, why do you wanna work here? And I just need money, So they're they're hesitant for that. So that's why I've, you know, over 2000 jobs since being laid off. And, and you're not doing anything else during this time, this nine months. I mean, you're not driving an Uber, you're not doing Amazon, you're doing nothing, just applying, applying, applying. I've tried, tried to apply for some serving jobs. They haven't called me back or won't. Now that, I'll be honest with you, I was tracking with you before, but that part feels odd to me because I'm like Target, Chipotle, Amazon, something. They'll hire you in 20 minutes if you're breathing.

How am I what? I said they'll hire you in 20 minutes on those things of your breathing. But you have to get to do something out there to keep from running up debt. Okay, there's a... Well, the first thing I wanna do is try to help you. Let's, I want you to read King Coleman's book, Proximity Principle, and I'm going to send it to you

as a gift. And I want you to read and take the assessment on finding the work you're wired to do, and the assessment will give you some insights. So the application business in the digital world is useless. We hired 200 people last year at Ramsey. We had 15,000 applications. So if you got in the application pile, if you said you applied for a job at Ramsey, that was a

joke. It was a joke. There was no chance. 200 out of 15,000 was your odds, okay. And that's not cause the job market's weird. It's cause people just apply digitally in mass all the time. And that's what your 2000 applications are. So those were useless. Most of those are not indications of you and they're not indications of the job market. They're indications of a digital world and people are getting stacked with applications. So you've got to do something to get indications of a digital world and people are getting stacked with applications.

So you've gotta do something to get out of the application pile and start talking to humans. And then you've gotta figure out a way that you're not looking for, I just want money from you, instead how can I add value to your company and be a blessing to you and as a result I get paid. And so you know I've come to the realization that I'm probably not going to land something like I had in the last position and I'm more than willing to get in here and

prove my worth and work my way up inside your company. And that's not a I'm taking anything for money and I'm gonna leave you at the first glance. If you're sending that message it's no wonder you're not getting hired because they don't want that you're right they don't want the turnover. So but if you if you say okay I used to make that but I'm not making that right now and I'd like to get a somebody just give me a shot put me in coach and if you do that I'll stay here and work my way up and I'll prove my value to the organization

and based on that the organization will pay me. So the proximity principle is how to get your name out of the stack and that is the people in your life know somebody that knows somebody. So it's not unusual in a given month for me to get three or four emails from friends or friends of friends that said my granddaughter put in an application my daughter my son put in an application at Ramsey now what that does is I don't do hiring here our team our leadership team hires that

their own teams and so and HR doesn't do hiring here we recruit they recruit but they don't do the hiring the people that are going to be working with you do the hiring but what I'll do is I'll send that email over and say, hey guys, pull this name out of the stack and at least talk to them. And then after that, it's up to you and up to them. But I can get you out of the stack. And so that's what you're looking for is people to get you out of the stack. That's the whole proximity principle.

It doesn't have to be the owner or the CEO in my case, but Jade could do the same thing. That's right. If you had a friend that said, I want to come to work there and my name's in my case, but Jade could do the same thing. That's right. If you had a friend that said, I want to come to work there and my name's in the stack, you could go in and see Armando, our HR director and say, hey, pull this one out. Please give these guys a look. You know that they've still got to make it through the interview. They do.

They do. But at least they get a look. And that's what the proximity principle does. And they don't have to be an expert in your field. They don't have to have tremendous influence they just their kids play soccer together that's all it is you know and they get they you know your kids play soccer together so they get in there you don't have kids but you know your nephew plays soccer with the person who works at that company and that they'll go in there and

get your name out for that'll help but just in mass filing out you know going to monster.com or LinkedIn and just you know cut and paste and throw applications up and call that applying for a job it's a waste of time. It's a waste of time. You're not gonna get hired doing that. And I would say I would say Kristen you got to get something I don't care if it's stocking shelves at Walmart you've probably heard me say this before if you're out there listening but there's really five reasons to take any job before you get the job. And here they are.

Number one, some money is better than no money. All right. Number two, you need to see who you are in tough times and who you are as somebody who's going to go to work. No matter what you're going to wake up every morning, you're going to go do your best at whatever that job is. And you need to prove that to yourself until you get the job. The third thing is you're going to learn more about yourself, what you like, what you don't like. The third thing is you're gonna learn more about yourself,

what you like, what you don't like. The fourth is you will be a productive person. It's very good to get out, get up, put some jeans on, look nice, put your makeup on and go out and do something. You need to do that during this time so you don't lose confidence, which brings me to number five. By doing that every day, you will start to build confidence

because you don't wanna go into these big job interviews feeling bad about yourself because you haven't been working for nine months. So there you have it. Here it is. Hang on. We'll get you those books, kiddo. And go get something this week.

Anything. Anything. Our scripture of the day, Psalm 127, one, unless the Lord builds a house, the work of the builder is wasted. Unless the Lord protects a city, guarding it with sentries will do no good. Stephen Covey says, our most important financial asset is our own capacity to earn. There it is, just what we're talking about. That's right. Joe is in St.

Louis. Hey Joe, what's up? Hi guys, thanks for having me. Sure, how can we help? Well, me and my husband are in a big transition in our life. I feel like our twin high school seniors are graduating this week and my older two have moved out of the house. My husband travels a lot for work and we're just, he wants to downsize, um, our five bedroom house because he sees it as an investment. And I see it where I raised my babies and I want them to come home too. Um, but I also feel like the housing market is just so crazy for what I have,

what I see we owe and what I'd have to rebuy a house for. I just can't make it make sense. Well, you're selling it. That's, that part's not valid. Okay. You're selling a house in a crazy market. You're buying a house in a crazy market. That's a break even not valid. Okay, you're selling a house in a crazy market. You're buying a house in a crazy market That's a break even Right. Yes. Okay. It's not like you selling low and buying high You're selling high and buying high so that but if you're selling but I don't want you to sell the house

I think you keep it. Why would you sell it? That's my question we've done or sell it? That's my question. We've done all the baby steps and worked to just only, we worked extremely hard last year. He busted his booty at work. I'm a wedding photographer and a senior photographer and I worked double time.

We paid everything off and our house is the only thing we owe. Oh, what do you owe on it? Um we owe about $275 on it. So what are you like 52 or 53 or something? No um 40 and 40 I think I'm 43. Okay so you're young okay you have a $270,000 mortgage and your household income is what? Um, well, it's probably this year around $200,000. Okay, and what's the house worth? Yeah, um, probably between $5,000, $550,000 I would say, just depends. Okay, um, hmm. I don't understand. Okay, can you tell me, can you tell me, can

you put voice to his... Why he wants to do this. Why he wants to do this because I don't understand why he wants to do it. Yeah, I think that he thinks if we were to sell it and make all that money, we can either pay off the next house and maybe even be potentially like we have five acres i'd take pictures out back we have a beautiful pool like i love where we are and he did being fat maybe like at this stage of our life

uh... go live by golf course have a closer place in the e and then have a paid off house. Next round. But wouldn't that, that costs, what you're talking, that costs more. Yeah, you're not gonna have a paid off, you're not gonna have a paid off house. You owe, it's worth 550, you owe 270.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. You're not buying a $200,000 house on a golf course in St. Louis. Right, next to all the good restaurants. Oh no, we would do like, we would do like a condo for a time being, and then kind of see where our kids settled and then start again. Um, but I, I agree everything I like is like $500,000 or more. And I feel like my house is that and we only owe 270 on it,

you know, and our interest rates amazing. So, I don't, I don't, I don't, my interest rates amazing. It's zero. So I don't, we're not, we don't love interest rates. Yeah. But if I were to sell this, I'd have to go double. Well, no, you could not, if you bought 200. Yeah. Does he have an example? I don't think you can. I mean, I, I think you're, I think his, I think he's living in a dream. Yeah. Unless he has an example of what he's thinking of with numbers, and he's seen it, and he can show it to you. I'd want to see it.

Tell me what you mean by that. Show it to me. So when your last kid leaves home, you have a simultaneous emotional reaction of thank God and oh God. You cry and you cheer every 30 minutes. You cry and you cheer. Thank God we got this done. Don't you ever come back unless you bring grandbabies. And so, you know, but you also, there's a little bit of your heart is broken because that part of your life is over. That job is done. And it is heartbreaking. And so it's an emotional, it was for me, it was

for my wife when the last one leaves. I'm struggling dad. I don't want him to leave and I find that I don't want you to make a decision. I don't want you to make a decision right now. Okay. It's a bad time to decide. A year from now if you guys want to talk about this, and again, that's probably okay, but there's nothing pushing this sale. There's nothing

financially savvy about the sale. There's nothing crazy about keeping the house. So I'm just going to park a year and let us get into the groove of empty nesting. Right. Yes. And then- Do we try to double our payments or... You need to work, you need to work your baby steps. Okay. Which is baby steps, four is 15% of your income going into retirement, five you gotta take care of the twins college,

they're heading off to college, we gotta pay for it. And then extra money we can find, we start throwing at the house because we do wanna get the house paid for, whether we're gonna sell it or not you don't lose the money that you pay down on debt it increases your equity right yeah definitely so yeah let's just continue to work that and then the two of you keep talking but I I think he's kind of having a woohoo maybe I could be completely dead free and

they're gone and let's just sell it move let's go have an adventure and get a backpack and yeah no I don't know in a weird house weirds him out and is making him feel what's actually happening maybe it's that right well at first too he kind of thought we could have that money and invest it and that could be because I'm self-employed you don't have that money retired. So that's helping retired. Yeah, if we sold the house. I mean, if you had a $2 million house and you wanted to go down to a $750 and it was paid for,

we can talk about downsizing. But you don't have enough equity to make- Right, I don't think it's actually downsizing. There's not enough room for you to downsize and have any advantage. Right, yeah. I see that too, like that's my big thing is, I don't think we could find

a... we have a beautiful place and I don't think I could find anything near what we have and then not spend the same mortgage that we have right now. Yeah, and don't plan the next 50 years of your life for the five weekends that your kids are going to spend inside the house. Right, yeah. Okay, we're not going to keep the house for them to come back to. Like you said, I don't want to do that one either, but I would, I'm going to side with you. I cause I don't see the advantage. I think you're probably right.

And you've told me 10 times how much you love this house and that's, so there's no reason to sell it other than he's just like that since we built it though, he has just like, when we built it, he was ready to move on then. So I think that emotionally he kind of like, I don't know, just the process is hard, but when is it not hard to build a house, you know? Yeah, and when is it not hard

to have your last kid leave home? Sure. So. Yeah. I'm- And simultaneously, woo-hoo. I can't speak to that part. It hasn't happened yet. Just thinking about it makes me get some type of way Squishy on the inside. That's like that. That's fun. Ah, yeah

Yeah, don't I just there's nothing pushing this decision and so when in doubt don't let's write it a little bit and Then see what happens, but if if you start hearing some more convincing Reasons than you and I have heard today then you can talk about it I guess but there's nothing there's nothing pushing the sale of this house and there's no huge windfall Like you guys leapfrog forward in your finances because you sell this house and there's no huge windfall like you guys leapfrog forward in your finances because you sell this house. There's just not that much wiggle room in this deal. You don't have that kind of automatic play here. That's the thing. So yeah, that's what we do. So

yeah, you plan for them to leave and they leave don't be shocked by that, but it is it is a heart-rending Time and Sometimes people do weird stuff right about the time the kids leave. I mean they do I mean they do weird, you know Yeah, it's a it's like I'm gonna go we're gonna sell everything and be you know Get an RV and and ride across the country. Exactly. Whatever. You know all this stuff they go, you know. Get an RV and ride across the country. Exactly, whatever, all this stuff. They go, it's okay, you can do all that. You're now free to do that. You're free to move about the country.

That puts us out of the rims of the show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it. In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus.