The Ramsey Show - App - Your Income Is Your Greatest Wealth Building Tool

Episode Date: January 2, 2025

Welcome to the Ramsey Show America, where we help you win in your life. We're going to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships. Happy, happy new year, live for the first time in 2025. George Campbell is alongside. Happy new year, Ken. Thank you, thank you, thank you. And I'm Ken Coleman, and we're here for you. 888-825-5225 is the phone number.

888-825-5225. All right, George, you ready to get it started? I hope so. I'm a little foggy. You're a little foggy? Callers are lined up, and we're going to Australia for the first call of the show today. How fun is this? Charlene joins us.

Charlene, how can we help today? Hi, guys. Happy New Year. Thanks for taking my call. You bet. What's going on today? My question about my frivolous spending is where we're at to start off the new year. A little about my background. I'm a single mom to a toddler, earning $88,000 annually and working part-time.

Wow. I have a budget that I think, or at least I thought was quite strong, and there's a line item in my budget for food and spending. But without sale, I'm blowing through that allowance every month, and just there's little to no enjoyment with the things that I'm spending that money on.

And so there's always kind of buyer's remorse and always way more months than there is money. And so no matter how I tweak the budget, I just can't seem to fix it. It's not a budget issue. It sounds like it's a behavior issue. So give us an idea.

Give us an idea of this. You called it food and spending. I know George wants to know this. I want to know, what do you include in food and spending? And then give us an idea of the consistencies of what you're spending too much money on in that line item of food and spending. Takeout, first and foremost. I hate to cook, so there's a lot of dining out or fast food takeout that's being spent. And it's shopping of any sort. I can't stop myself from just buying anything that I see online

or walk past the store or if my son, you know, looks at something and there's a twinkle in his eye, he'll immediately get it and there's just no second thought. I just buy. And then it's almost immediately after I've made the purchase that I get that buyer's remorse and I'm annoyed with myself that I've bought it, but damage is already done. So I'm trying to figure out a way to stop the swiping

instead of feeling bad about it afterwards. Well, one way, the easiest, fastest way is to get rid of the mechanism that you are using to swipe. Is this a credit card that you're using? Yes, yes and no. I've got the cash I just don't like using the cash because I know that history has told me I'm not going to have enough at the end of the month

so I do use my credit card and it does get paid off every month but yes I use the card so that But do you see what would happen there? Let's say if you cut up the card and you only had the cash which was only enough to cover your bills you know what you would do? You would just cover your bills.

But then what happens if I can't eat? You use the cash to eat and cover your bills. There's I don't have enough to eat, and then there's I'm spending all my money on fast food and takeout. There's a big difference. Because you don't want to cook. And here's the deal. Nobody's telling you you've got know uh the greatest cook in the world and all this but you're a single mom so we've got to take care of you and the and the toddler and this is going to come down to i think it's two things george one i'm i'm seeing there's there's

an emotion that you're not handling very well and you're medicating the emotion with stuff. And then there's the emotion of guilt or exhaustion or something along the cooking to where you go, I don't want to do it. I despise it so much that I'm going to willingly blow money just to make life a little easier. And by the way, certainly can understand that emotion. That's the emotion of convenience. It's hard. You're a single mom.

I mean, you got a lot going on and it's a lot easier to just drop by, pick up some barbecue on the way home and not have to prepare it. It's already ready to go. So George, I just see there's two, I think this is an emotion issue. She needs some guard rails like you're trying to tell her, but dare I say, get to the root of it, get to the root of this and really lock in on the son's twinkling of the eyes. And you feel guilty maybe because of the relationship status and his father's, I don't know what it is. And I'm not trying to

read your mind, but the best advice I could give is I don't think this is a money problem. I think this is an emotion problem and you're medicating. Okay. Yeah. I kind of feel that too. Um, because I, I know that financially I'm okay. Um, I'm okay. I just don't know how to stop. Do you have debt right now? Yes, I have 13K in a personal loan and 10K in student loans. Okay. What helps me is having a goal for money instead of just it existing. And so what I want you to do is start to reframe that money and go, nope, that's not take out money and shopping money. This is get out of debt money. And I'm going to allocate that money beyond once my bills are paid, we're going to prioritize our budget. So your budget's great, but it's just a plan. If you don't follow the plan, the plan's useless. I've created workout

plans that I never follow. I never actually worked out. On paper, it would work if I did it. I'd have a six pack right now, but I don't. And the same thing applies to your money. So once you start laying out your budget going, okay, I have to cover my rent, my insurance, I need to put food on the table. Beyond that, any extra money is going to go toward debt. And once I'm out of debt, you can start to loosen the reins a little bit. Yeah. And I appreciate that, George. You're absolutely right. But Charlene, I have to challenge you. You just told us and a lot of people listening and watching that you don't know how to stop. And I think therein lies the problem. You do know how to stop. How do you stop not buying takeout? You tell me. What's the answer?

You just don't. You find another avenue for food. We start meal planning and we grocery and we budget. The old quote from Mama Camel, we have food at home. We have food at home. I mean, this idea that I don't know how to stop. Charlene, you're a really nice person. So I hope you don't take this the wrong way. But that is you are acting like a victim.

Like, oh, there's some mysterious thing about me. There's something wrong with me. There's something in the universe. And you're not saying this, but I want you to sound how you hear how silly that sounds when I say that. Yeah. You're not a silly person, are you, Shirley? No. Stop acting silly.

Stop. Today. It's a daily choice george that's how you build discipline let's help her out what can we get to her oh she's in australia i don't know how we do we can still send you know what i'm going to send you a copy of my book breaking free from broke read that all the way through read the margin is breathing room chapter read the spending is self-control chapter that one was written for charlene it's got your name on it. So hang on the line. Kelly's going to pick up. We'll get your address and get you that book. And I hope 2025 is the year you build the discipline to say no. Today's the day, Charlene. You're not a silly person. You told us all. No games. We believe you. So stop acting silly. All right. Serious business coming up next. We'll cover your calls and George and I will discuss when do you stop saying Happy New Year?

America and the world needs to settle this and we will next. Helping you win in your life. This is the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman alongside George Camel. And we are here for you. 888-825-5225. 888-825-5225. Well, we're rested and relaxed. We've had a little bit of downtime. And back live today here on the Ramsey Show. By the way, a beautiful, and I do mean beautiful, studio audience today. Folks from all around the country joining us live here in our Ramsey Solutions World Headquarters. So fun to see them.

And a reminder, you can always come join us. We have free coffee, free baked goods, and all kinds of things. And love coming out and saying hi to the folks during commercial breaks. Happy New Year to you, George. And happy New Year to our growing audience. And this begs the question, because I think of these things, and I could certainly be called neurotic, but I think this is a conversation that serious people want to have. And, you know, we're always helping people get free of debt, free of toxic relationships, free of meaningless work, right? Okay. I think people want to be free of saying happy new year. Are we done with it as a society? Well, so today's my first day back in the office

of the new year. And so I see people, I've already had a couple of meetings this morning and the obligatory happy new year, happy new year. And so I asked the question for myself, but for you today and the american people and people watching from around the world uh at what point should we stop saying or should we feel free to stop saying it um and i think that uh i think that the end of this week the very first week of january i think you should be free of never having to say it again. So we're in the first week right now. When does a week end in your mind?

Well, the first work week because you're back in the professional rhythm. So we're talking Friday or Sunday? I'm going to go Friday. Okay. So Friday, end of business, no more Happy New Year. You don't have to, and you shouldn't have to. Now the question then becomes what happens if you show up on Monday and you haven't seen some of your team, which is going to be the case,

and they say Happy New Year to you? Do you reciprocate? I think you have to reciprocate, otherwise you're a weirdo. I'm not going to offer it up past week one, but I will reciprocate. So you have an agreement with me? Do you agree with week one, we should all stop? Unless it's an acquaintance I haven't seen in a while and it's still within the two-week window. I'm going to give it two weeks for someone you haven't seen. Maybe it's a phone call. Wow. Very nuanced. An email. Very nuanced, George. I just think the world we'd all be better off if

we all said week one, happy new year. After week one, can we move on? I will say this. I just think it makes everybody's life easier. It doesn't add any value to my life. It doesn't bring me any joy. All right, before we get to the phones, one other quick thing here, because I take issue with what you said. I would like to come in Monday, and I told our super producer, David, this in a meeting,

and he agrees, and he's one of the nicer people on the planet. So I tend to feel confident about this position if someone says happy new year to me come monday i'm gonna pass i'm just gonna go hey how you doing hey i couldn't stomach the the social awkwardness well i think if you let it sit and don't respond at all it's weird but if if if just try it say happy new year to me like it's monday hey happy new year ken hey man what's going on how was the holiday that was smooth see you fooled me so now you're asking the holidays model this for everybody now you're trying to get me to go into the past no i'm not i'm having what would be normal conversation i don't have to respond in kind you don't care about what happened over the holidays i'm going to suggest that you

don't care about how happy my new year is. I would agree with that. See, we're all just saying something. Why are we saying it? That's how we exist in a society, Ken. There it is. I hope we've set some of you free. If you see me in public.

Don't say it. On Monday and you say happy new year to me, understand I'm changing the lane. I'm changing directions. I'm not going to say it. And I feel very good about it. I hope you get trolled come Monday with so many Happy New Years. Well, here's what's great about the trolling. For all you people who disagree with me and you're taking shots at me in the YouTube comments, I'll never know because I don't look at them. I will send them to you. I will mail them to your home address. George, on the other hand,

is in the comments. I sleep peacefully at night. I'll screenshot it, print them out, and assort them all in an envelope. And I won't look at them. If I see a shot of text come through, George, I'm going to ignore it. Wow, this guy's good. All right, here we go. Fort Myers, Florida. Aaron is on the line.

Aaron, how can we help? Hi, Ken. Hi, George. I don't know if anyone wished you Happy New Year yet, but Happy New Year. You get one more day. And one more day. That was the troll, by the way. You get today and tomorrow's show.

Don't make me hang up this phone. I'm not going to. I said I'm going to be a man of my word. Happy New Year, Aaron. And everybody can tell I can mean that. All right, Aaron, what's the call? All right. So my wife, she's in flight school.

She has 100 hours. She's about to get her private pilot license. And she has, oh, yeah, she has two years left. So we sold her house. We did the whole Ramsey thing, sold our expensive cars. My wife and I are driving. We have two cars, but, you know, we have a nice 2010 Prius nice 2010 Prius, and we're trying to be smart with our money. So I have about $50,000 left in savings.

We bring in $72,000 a year for flight school costs, about $50,000 a year. And we had $80,000 in savings in September. So the money's going quick. And I don't know if I'm going to have to go into debt. We are going to have to go into debt to continue this flight school. So you currently have enough to get through one of the years in savings. So we're really concerned about the final year. Yes.

When is the money due? Is it due exactly a year from now? So we pay as we go. It's about a grand a week. Every time she goes, she pays cash. Is there a discount for paying cash? No, there isn't. All right, so wait a second.

This is a reasonable goal. This seems very impossible to you, doesn't it, Aaron, the way you're presenting. This feels like a mountain you can't climb. True or false? I'd say true because we went through about $20,000 in savings since September. Yeah, but you had it. You saved it. My question is, what must happen between the two of you to make the additional $50,000 above and beyond your current income? That, to me, is very

doable. The two of you have to come up with $50,000, and you got about two years to do it, or a year or so to do it. Is that right? Yes. Did I get my math right? Is it a year got about two years to do it or a year or so to do it is that right yes but again my math right is it a year or two two years from now you got to have the 50 oh yeah so we're paying it as we go but i you know my math tells me we're going to run out of money probably within um like six or seven months but you just told me you have 50k in savings and a whole year is 50k so you could cash flow the entire next year. Mm-hmm. And that's without saving an extra penny. Yeah.

So you guys can make, between the two of you, an additional $50,000 by selling something, picking up some odd jobs, a side job. Am I right or am I wrong? Is this possible, Aaron? Yeah, so I was looking at getting another job, so I'm working 40 hours a week as an estimator for a construction company. I was looking at picking up shifts at the Olive Garden, and I think I'd probably be able to bring in maybe like another grand a week doing that. Well, that's exactly what you said. You guys were cash flowing,

so it's possible. It was a yes or no question. You sounded like a politician on a Sunday morning show, which I appreciate. So I'll ask again, with both of you being committed to not going into debt, which is how you've lived your life to this point, could you guys come up with the $50,000 when it's needed, yes or no? I think right now we're looking at maybe coming. I feel like we're going to be short. But you should run for Congress. You should run for Congress. That is a fantastic avoidance of two direct questions.

George, I see the balance of my time to the gentleman from Massachusetts. Well, Aaron, you're saying I feel like, I feel like. Let's put it on paper and go we have $50,000 in the bank. We need $50,000 time to the gentleman from Massachusetts. Well, Aaron, you're saying I feel like, I feel like. Let's put it on paper and go, we have 50 grand in the bank. We need 50 more grand one year from now. Here's what that looks like. We need a grand a week. We each need to come up with 500 bucks a week. Here's what it's going to take to get there.

What would you do? What would your hack be? I'd go get that side job. Right. And have her get some skin in the game, too. Also working. Yeah. So that we're not missing each other.

I mean, she can, they canlup bread sticks together at Olive Garden. Then they're together. And you're eating for free. You're eating for free. And who doesn't like the endless salad over there? I'd stick to the salad. Those bread sticks will do a number on you. Well, that's why I said the salad. You don't want the endless bread sticks or else, you know, you can't fit in the plane. That's a problem.

But we digress. Hey, it's doable. A theme already in today's show, George. What's that? People don't feel like they can. We're going to maybe have to address some feelings a little bit later. All right, we'll be right back. Don't move.

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I'm Ken Coleman. I'm joined in studio by my colleague, George Camel, and we're thrilled to be here for you. 888-825-5225. You got a money question? You got a paycheck question? I want more in my paycheck, Ken. I'm your guy, so we want you to make more money and keep more money to that end, George. Tell people the best way to make the most of

their money. What would you say? Well, you got to kind of do a financial audit of your life, income, what are my expenses? And the best way to do that is through a budget. And our team created an amazing app that's free to you. Go download it. It's called EveryDollar, where you can plan your spending, track your expenses, save for what matters most, all in an easy-to-use app. And if you've got a spouse, they can be logged in, full accountability, transparency, and that's what it's going to take. If you've got money goals in 2025, I don't care what they are, the budget is the crux of controlling your money goals. So go download it for free in the App Store or Google Play or click the link

in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. By the way, there's all kinds of gold in the show notes. If we mention something and you think, oh, I didn't get that, just get to the show notes and everything is linked there for you fine folks. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Erin is going to start us in this segment. She's in Denver, Denver, Colorado. Erin, how can we help? Hi, Ken and George. Thanks for taking my call. You bet.

What's going on today? So I have a question regarding my student loans. They're serviced by Mojila, and they're being mismanaged by Mojila. They're still occurring interest when they should be at 0%. And so I'm just curious if I continue to fight the battle with them to get the interest correct and reapply all these payments that they've been splitting between interest and principal, or if I go ahead and just, I have two loans with them and I'm in a position to pay off one of the loans today.

So if I just go ahead and pay that off and just continue the interest battle on the other loan sequence. Do you have this agreement in writing where it's super clear that you are indeed supposed to be at a 0% situation right now? Yes. I have letters from Mojila dated back to July that say I'm on 0% while the loans are in the courthouse because I'm on the safe repayment plan. Wow. And so I will be at 0% until that court case is finalized, which currently my account states I'm in administrative forbearance until April 30th of 2025. So I've continued to make payments because 0% means 100% of my payment

then goes to principal, but that's not what Mojila is doing. Yeah. I mean, have you talked to somebody up the ladder there? The highest I can get is somebody that's quote an advanced agent in their resolution team. I have talked to somebody in that department probably six times. Same person? Every time I call. No, I get a different person every time. What's the answer? What do they say to you when you tell them what you just told us? They say, oh, yes, we see that, and we'll get this 6 and 7 to 10 days. And this has literally been going on since July. How much interest does it talk about?

How much money is on the line here? Total between the two loans to date is $1,800. Okay. And how long have you been fighting this? How many hours have you spent? That's my thing. I'm on the phone at least two to three hours every time I call between hold times and actually speaking with someone. This was my gut, was that Erin is worth more than the time she's spending and the brain

calories she's burning for this. I would be done with it. You said you have the cash to pay off one. We'll fight it on the back end, and they'll write you a check if you want to continue fighting it. And I hope they do resolve it, and they'll write you a check for the difference that you were owed. But I would be done with it. I'd pay off both loans if you can today. Attack it with everything you got.

Yeah. Unfortunately, I'm not in a position to pay off the second one. It's just under $60,000, but I am in a position to pay off the smaller one. Are they going to do the same kind of garbage to you on the $60,000? They are doing the same thing. See, you've got to fix that. Every time I call, I'm fighting them about both of them. Are you in control of when the payments are happening? So currently, yes. Currently, I actually don't have to make any payments. So what I have been doing is setting money aside into my high interest savings account until I got to a position to A,

either the loans were going to come out of the 0%, and then I would dump everything on the principal, or until I had enough in the savings to pay off the loan in full. Because that's coming directly from Mojiva, because they're telling me every time I make a payment, it's a consolidated loan, so they look at those loans as being one loan even though they're two separate subsidized versus unsubsidized so they'll proportionately

split my payment Can you go in manually and apply money to the principal on one of them? Nope. They tell me I can but on their website I cannot and if I call to ask them to do that it is still the same system this Mojito system is broken.

I'd like to get the CEO on the line. I mean, these two loan companies are inept. This is on purpose. They're malicious at worst. They're inept at best. I say malicious. You're going to spend more in attorney fees trying to fight this than you should be owed in interest. So I just don't think it's worth the fight.

I would aggressively pay these down. I wouldn't even wait till you have all the money in full. I would just start putting all the money you can on the principal every single month until it's gone. Okay. So even though they're going to continue to make the payment applied to principal and interest? Well, the faster you pay the principal down, the less interest you're going to pay. And so if you just let it sit and they're charging interest, it's going to be worse. George, I disagree with you on this one. Not about paying it off, but I would fight this. The reason these people do this is because enough people put up with it.

And Erin, I'm not in any way casting judgment on you. I'm saying every time you get somebody on the phone, I would take their name down. Yes. I would take their name and ID number. And I would tell them I'm recording the conversation. And then the next time I talk to somebody and say, listen, this is what's happened. I've documented all this. How many times has happened? I've been lied to. And I am going to hold you personally accountable. Do you want to be held accountable for this? Because I'm recording this and or whatever you got, I would get very, very serious about this because they play this game to wear people like you out. And I wouldn't quit fighting because George, here's the deal. If she does that, she's going to keep getting ripped off. She should not be paying one cent of interest via the agreement. And I wouldn't just throw it away these people

need to be dealt with and the ceo of this then she needs to go public you know what i would do i would go to uh is this a canadian company oh no sorry denver you're in denver i'm sorry i'm looking i'm in denver so this go to the local media out of missouri go to the local media. Go to the local media. They love this stuff. Local media. I'd call every one of their hotline. I'd go, I'm getting ripped off and I represent. I would make a stink out of this. They do not want bad publicity. I've contacted legislators and the Colorado Attorney General's office. Forget them. They're worthless. I would stations i would go i would go social media and i would go uh i would publish it all and i'd go to the news you gotta fight these people george the other piece of this i would personally do i would be researching all over the internet

in reddit threads i just looked them up this is not just happening to you it's happening to a lot of other people i would see are there people who are getting resolution what is being done who can i contact and there's power in in numbers and power in other people's experiences so i would be doing a lot of homework to figure out how to get to the bottom of this but at the same time i don't want it just consuming every fiber of your being for the next six months i agree with that but you can take it up several notches. But I am Mr. Customer Service. I am Mr. I'd like to speak to the manager. So I get it. I'd like to speak to the CEO.

That's what I'd like. It kind of reminds me of that scene from Christmas Vacation where Cousin Eddie goes and gets the CEO in his pajamas. Oh, yeah. Puts a bow around him, brings him to the living room to answer for the jelly of the month club. That's what happens in movies. Aaron can't do that. I know. But this is wrong. It's like trying to talk to the Wizard of Oz That's what happens in movies. Aaron can't do that. I know. But this is wrong.

It's like trying to talk to the Wizard of Oz. I'm sorry, Aaron. I wouldn't quit fighting. I don't think we should let big companies steal from we the people. And they're stealing from you. This is wrong. Oh, my gosh. All right.

The American way. We've got to fight, Ken. Can I get a quick little, what's the pill I like to chew when I get into this? A Tums. I'm going to take a Tums. An antacid for Ken. On behalf of you, the people, I'll call myself. We'll be ready to answer more questions coming up.

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That's fairwinds, F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman alongside George Camel. The phone number is 888-825-5225. We're answering your questions about your money, and that includes how do I keep it, how do I budget, how do I get out of debt, how do I make more money? George and I are combining on all those fun topics today for you.

All right, today's question of the day is brought to you by WhyRefi. If private student loan debt is taking away your peace of mind and you don't see a way out, good news, you might need WhyRefi. WhyRefi refinances defaulted private student loans that other places won't touch and gives you a low fixed rate loan built for you. So go to Y-Refi.com slash Ramsey today. That's the letter Y-R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey. It may not be available in all states. Today's question comes from Lucas in Oregon. I was in the medical field for five years. I left that job to help my dad with his company and take care of my mom who was sick. My mom ended up passing away,

and I've stayed at my dad's company for three years. Recently, my former boss called and made me a great offer to come back. What do I do? I'm currently making 60K with my father, but his company isn't stable, and we're trying our best to get it profitable again. If I went back to my former position, I'd be making $72,000. I just bought a house and need stable income, but how do I leave my dad? I've really helped his company. Well, Lucas, this is a heavy question. And just reading it feels heavy to me, and I'm not walking this out. So I certainly feel bad for you in that this is a tough decision,

but I think it's a clear decision. And clear decisions aren't always easy. And this is a clear decision that's really tough. And what I mean by that is, is I think it's very obvious that you should go back to your former employer. You enjoyed the job. They've given you a great offer, your words, not mine. And you only left them to help dad out. You've helped dad out tremendously, but it's not your responsibility to run dad's company. It's not your responsibility to grow dad's company. And you're going to have to do what is best for you. If you do not, you will resent your

dad, even though he's done nothing wrong in this situation. So I think you ask the question, how do I leave my dad? I think you leave him with respect. I think you leave him with clarity. And I think you leave him with confidence. If you can achieve those three things, then what will be a tough decision will be less tough. In other words, I'm going to leave with respect and honor. I'm going to treat him very, very well. I am going to be super clear with him as to why and when and how. And I think, again, that will then allow you to be confident that you are, in fact, doing the right thing, George. So that's, I don't know what you want to add to that, but please do.

That's a tough situation. The red flag is with dad's company. Because Lucas says, hey, I've been there for three years and I've really helped his company, and yet we're trying our best to get it profitable again. That's scary. That might mean that this business has some serious flaws that you can't fix if it's been three years.

That's right. And so if it's unstable, you're putting your own family in jeopardy by staying here and you're leaving on the table a 20% pay raise with a more stable company. So it's not to say this is a forever move. Maybe he gets it profitable again and five years from now you step back in or one day you take it over. Who knows? Might be doing him a favor. But yeah,

in this season. My dad realizing, we shouldn't try to keep this afloat. He needs to get someone who can help this business or he needs to figure it out. And I don't think you're the secret sauce. There might be a savior complex going, I'm the one who needs to save this. And with mom passing, that adds a whole nother element of, you know, trying to stick together with the. But I think, like you said, Ken, it's going to lead to resentment. Lucas, thank you for the question. We really believe in you, and you've got to do what's best for you on that, and that ends up being best for everybody is what I have found. All right, Ontario, Canada is where we go next, and Emily is there.

Emily, how can we help? Hi, guys. How's it going? Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you well. Yes. So I was overpaid about $6,000, and since it's over a certain amount, I'm unable to repay it in full, and they're only giving me the option to garnish my wages. Should I put this $6,000 towards debt repayment, or should I store it in a high-yield savings account until it's time to get my wages garnished?

When will the wages be garnished, and how much per month or per paycheck? I have no idea. I actually have a colleague who's in a similar spot and it's been waiting about a year for those wages to be garnished. And I don't know how much. It's usually between 10 and 20% of the paycheck. Okay. And will you be able to still accomplish your budget with 80 to 90% of your take-home pay i think so or your net pay yeah if i right now i'm putting um almost everything extra onto debt repayment so i would just have to scale that back a little bit but i am living far below my means okay so it's either i pay off the debt faster now knowing that it'll slow down later when the wages are garnished

right okay yeah i mean you're not in a situation where you're going to owe six grand all at once knowing that it'll slow down later when the wages are garnished. Right. Okay. Yeah, I mean, you're not in a situation where you're going to owe six grand all at once, which puts you in jeopardy if you don't have the money. So I'm okay with using this money to expedite your goals, knowing that I'm going to need to ratchet down my budget later on. Okay, that sounds good. I really needed the reassurance.

Yeah, what's your total debt that you're trying to pay off? Yeah, so I have $24,000 on my car, and I have $210,000 in a mortgage. Okay, so just really the car is your consumer debt? Yes. And this will get it down to $18,000, and then how quickly can you pay it off at that point? It's my New Year's resolution, so I'm trying to get it paid off by next December. I really think if I buckle down, I can do it. So one year? Yes. Okay. Oh, I see where you're going, George. Emily, do you see what we're coming up with here on this plan? If you can knock the 18

out in one year, and we believe you can, love that that's your resolution. Now all of a sudden, let's say it takes a year for them to start garnishing. What's that car payment that you're paying right now every month? Right now, I'm putting $1,000 on the car. However, I just, I moved into a duplex that I purchased. I just signed a tenant and I'm getting $1,600 additionally. So that will all be rolling over onto the car as well. Right. But my point is what I'm trying to make the case i love what you're doing and what george said because by the time they start to garnish you're going to still be afraid of a payment you freed up a huge amount of money to where you're not even going to feel the garnish so we love that plan okay yep thank

you yeah thanks for the call really fun uh the call. Really fun. Let's see. Simon in Boston, Massachusetts is next. Simon, how can we help? Hi. I'm a 22-year-old. I'm debt-free. I just recently graduated from college, and I have a job I really like so far in the data field at a big tech company. Nice. And I essentially want to figure out how to make sure I'm putting my money in the right places and being smart with my money.

All right, Uncle George. I love this. This is right up your alley. Well, it's so much more fun, Simon, when you're debt-free and this money can go toward building your future instead of paying for the past. Exactly. So I love that you're thinking like this at 22 instead of how do I upgrade my life

now that I'm in my big boy job? Instead, you're going, hey, I want to make sure I make the most of this and don't blow it. And so that's where the budget is going to come in handy. And so you're going to list out your income. Do you know what your income will be? Yeah, so I'm about four months into it right now.

The base pay, this is all pre-tax, is $78,000 a year. And then I never know whether to kind of include this or not, but there should be a $7,800 bonus around April. Awesome. Well, you'll include that in April's budget. Okay. And when that happens, you can apply it to your next goal. That might be for you

getting your emergency fund in place. Do you have three to six months of expenses saved up right now? Yeah, I've got about $17,000 just in my bank account. Let's go. Okay. And then are you investing right now in the company retirement plan? Yeah. So right now I kind of have it at 10% because I just don't want to throw too much money, and then I'm planning to move out in the next couple months, so I don't want to have nothing ready for that, and that will be into a rental probably around $1,800, $1,900 a month. Okay. I would ratchet that up to 15%.

You make amazing money with no debt, so you're going to have no problem finding more margin to throw toward maybe a down payment for a savings account there. But that's going to be your key. I would have a focus goal. And for you, that might be that down payment on a house. Would you agree that's the next goal once you're investing? Yeah. I mean, I don't really know where I want to move permanently, but I definitely would like to invest in real estate as well at some point if I can afford it. That'll come later. Right now, I want you to find a primary residence as you get older, and that's going to take a lot of money, especially in the Boston area.

So I would sock it away, hang on the line. I'm going to send you EveryDollar Premium, our budgeting app, for free so that you can get started and make a plan for this. But he's on the way, Ken. This is amazing. Way to go, Simon. Simon says, how do I stack some cash? I didn't think of the Simon Says reference.

I was there for you. Good hour. Don't move. More Ramsey Show coming up. Welcome to the Ramsey Show where we help you win in your life. We're going to help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships. Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. The phone number to jump in, 888-825-5225.

888-825-5225. Happy New Year to everybody. We're only going to say that, George and I, for two more days. One day only. And then you're going to have to get over it. We won't be on the show tomorrow, so we'll see what happens tomorrow. So this is kind of your day to say Happy New Year and get a response. Because next week when we're

on, if we're on together, not happening. You're not hearing it. Not hearing it. We're done with it. Maybe Happy Tuesday. That's it. Yeah, I'll do that. I like that better. Alright, let's get it started. Let's go to Phoenix, Arizona, where Kelly is waiting. Kelly, Happy New Year year how can we help happy new year guys thank you for taking my call you bet what's happening my question is where

would a vasectomy reversal fit in on the baby steps um i've looked into my insurance and my fiance's and neither one covered it. It's going to be about $10,000 and we do have consumer debt, obviously not working that together at the moment, waiting until we get married, but just kind of wanting to plan. Do we pause that and stock up the money because we want to start a family or how much debt do you guys how much debt do you guys have uh separately um i have about 15 000 and he has about 50. oof and um i'm assuming he he agree he's in agreement with this uh reverse vasectomy yes Yes. Oh, boy.

I've got to tell you, that's a good dude. How old is he? How old is this guy? He's 42, and I'm 33, so I'm a little bit older too, so we're not wanting to wait. So time is of the essence. That was my next question. So now I see why you're trying to do this quickly.

Yes. Well, not the procedure. We want this doctor to be steady and slow on that one just take your time on behalf of every dude who's listening and watching this call right now the next question is who's paying for it yeah well they are they're gonna wait until they get married like together we're gonna wait till we get married okay when is that? The end of the summer. Okay. So we'll call it, and are you wanting to immediately, you know, try to have a family at that point? That's kind of the plan. I'm a little nervous, just not for the financial aspect, but for the medical risks involved with the procedure, but he's talked to his doctor and is willing and all in.

So, yeah, we're going to want to start as soon as possible. Okay. And how old are you? I'm 33. Okay. So because this is a financial question, and I know George is more than ready to answer this, but I feel like we've got to have a real conversation for a second. There's no guarantee that it's going to work. And I'm sure you guys know the medical percentages of it happening, but there's no guarantee. There's also no guarantee that even if the procedure goes fantastic, that you guys are going to be able to conceive in the timeline that you would like.

You acknowledge this, yes or no? Yes. And so I don't wish that on anybody. I mean, I want everything to work in the timeline, but it has to be discussed when we start talking about a $10,000 bill and you know we don't want you to go into debt. So George, I bring this up to say, I think I want to make the best financial move, period, for this couple, not the best way to figure out how to pay for this procedure, which may or may not yield what they want it to. Yeah. I mean, there's risk there for sure. Does that change? I guess my point is, I'm asking you a question on behalf of Kelly. Does that change your advice? I may have a different take than you. My take is that if this is, I mean, this is a very unique

situation. So I'm not going to say this is blanket advice for anyone who called in. But for Kelly, I would say let's pause the baby steps and let's both stack up as much cash as we can, make sacrifices needed, make minimum payments on the debts until we're married, we have the money to do the surgery and the reversal, and then we'll push play on the debts until we're married, we have the money to do the surgery and the reversal, and then we'll push play on the baby steps. All right. That's your take, huh? That's my take.

I mean, this is, you know, starting a family that kind of supersedes the baby steps. If this was, let's say, you know, IVF or something like that, Dave would say, hey, let's pause the steps and let's save up to pay for this in cash. Yeah. The goal, A1 is not going to more debt. A2 is pay off existing debt.

George, we do make $165,000 combined, so it shouldn't take more than three months. So what if we aggressively said we're going to save up the $10K and then pay off all of our debt before we're even married? Well, but then does that change her timeline, Kelly? We have a two-part question there. What's your answer? Yeah. I mean, our finances obviously aren't combined and we are both working them separately. So he has a second job as well. I am working towards that as well. So, I mean, it's possible that we might be able to knock out a lot of it in the next six months. Well, now there's a total goal of, you know, obviously it's not combined because you're not married,

but we're looking at $75,000 paid off in, let's call it, seven or eight months. So collectively, can we be throwing 10 grand a month at these debts? That might look, you know, you're throwing four, he's throwing six, whatever. But the goal is, can we be debt-free with money in the bank to pay for this? And you've got to pay for a wedding, right? Is this a small courthouse situation or is this lavish? Yeah, it's going to be a small. Yeah, what's the calendar on this?

Courthouse and then he's in the doctor's office the next week like no honeymoon straight to the emergency it feels like what i'm hearing am i right kelly or tell me if i'm wrong no so it would be like an elopement situation where it'd be a five-day wedding slash honeymoon and then come back and then when is he going under the knife again? Well, he has to meet with a specialist, a urologist, but he's talked to his general doctor about it and they see no problems with his age or the reversal, but they want him to go to the urologist to get it scheduled. All right. So we're on the same page.

No reason for debt. I'm tweaking my advice, though. to get it scheduled. All right, so we're on the same page. No reason for debt. I'm tweaking my advice, though. I'm going to rescind it and go, let's attack this debt, and then we're going to be able to save up for the surgery within a month at that point once we're married. I am in agreement with that, George. I was going to go, I mean, it's not that I disagree with you and Dave on the family first, but it's like, can we wait a little bit?

Can we get married? Can we, you know what I mean, before we start putting this pressure on ourselves to get pregnant? Yeah, we're not talking about waiting two years. We're talking about waiting a month or two. Yeah, max. Something like that. I just, that's, A, it's all cash, Kelly, of course. You guys don't need to go into debt for this.

But to George's point, you could pause the baby steps in his plan, but I don't think we need to do that. I think you guys can knock the debt out and cash flow this procedure. The reason I like putting the debt first is it puts fuel on this debt-free journey because now you have a much deeper why. And when you have that deeper why, you're willing to take on that second job. You're willing to do the extra shift because you want to get to that surgery and get to having that family. And what we want for you, Kelly, is debt-free and baby on the way. That's what we want, and I think that's what you want. Is he on board for all this?

Yep. This is a good dude. Yep, he's great. Listen, all you had to say was he's 42, and he's going to go get a reverse vasectomy, and this is a good man. This is a good man. Might be slightly crazy, but he's a good man.

I need a Tums after that one, Ken. No, it's the wrong pill. Oh, sorry. Maybe some Advil. And an ice pack. This is the Ranger Show. Hey, guys. I'm Jade Warshaw, and I want to talk to you for a quick second about student loan refinancing.

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And you can get your interest rate even lower if you sign up for auto pay. But if your situation is more complex, sign up for a free 30-minute consultation with one of their student loan refinancing experts to get your tough questions answered. Listen, not everybody should refinance their student loan, so make sure you run the numbers. But for some people, it is the right move.

Learn more at laurelroad.com slash Ramsey to find out more about their student loan refinancing. That's laurelroad.com slash Ramsey. Laurel Road is a brand of Key Bank National Association. All credit products are subject to credit approval. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken coleman so excited that you're with us triple eight eight two five five two two five is the number to call in you got a question about saving some money getting out of debt how about making more money in that paycheck well you got

the guys today to help you out with that thrilled to take your call triple eight eight two five five two two five all right george uh do you have a bit of a real estate prediction as we start the new year? What do you think about the housing market? What do you think? Do you pay attention to it at all? Yeah, it's been a bit of a roller coaster. I thought things would kind of just start trending nicely. We're going to see rates start to continue dipping slowly, but it's been a little bit of, whoop, it's back up.

Whoop, all right, it's down a little bit. Whoop. So I think we're going to see more of the same in 2025. I think over time, we're going to see a dip, but I think in the meantime, it'll be a little bit of a rocky road. Okay. All right. I'm reading some stuff where some people think it's going to be a good year. I think it'll be good. It shouldn't take longer than we would like it to. Okay. All right. Well, that's why we created Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base. That's right. It's called Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base. That's right. It's called Ramsey's Real Estate Home Base.

This is the place with all the tools and resources you need, whether you're buying or selling, George. And half the battle is confidence if you're buying or selling so that you're making good decisions. You're going to find things like calculators, start to finish guides, how-to articles, a podcast, a book, even a video course, all with practical, easy-to-follow steps so that you can navigate through buying or selling. If you're ready to take the next steps toward your home goals with peace of mind, go to ramseysolutions.com slash real estate. Super easy to remember, ramseysolutions.com slash real estate, or click the link in our show notes if you're listening on YouTube or via your

favorite podcast. And again, all the stuff we tell you about, if you go, I didn't hear what he said, show notes. My two favorite words, George. It's where you get everything that we talk about, you don't have to stress. All right, let's get back to the phones. Raleigh, North Carolina, is where Ryan sits and waits for us. Ryan, how can we help? Hey, how are you doing today? Well, we're doing well. What's going on? I've got two, well, I've got a main point and a question for you. My main point is my wife and I got married in May, and we are debt-free. We paid off $65,000 in less than 12 months.

Congratulations, man. That is big time. Yeah. Super happy about that. God is good, and FPU definitely helped us. Love to hear it. And what's the question? Yeah, so we're just a bit concerned about my mother. She's 69.

She has about $4,000 in retirement. so not a whole lot. And we're just a bit concerned about doing things the biblical way, honoring the Lord, honoring her. When my grandparents passed, she's not going to really have a whole lot left from them. So, you know, we are kind of preparing ourselves for the financial burden of maybe having to take care of her. And, you know, it's not that we don't want to, we definitely want to help her out. But, you know, what exactly advice would you, would you give to us? You know, we've, we try to get her FPU. She doesn't really seem too interested in that.

So what advice would you give us? Does she have debt? Luckily, she does not have, I think, maybe, she has maybe like one credit card that's got like maybe $300 on it. Other than that, no. Does she own her home? No, she doesn't. She rents. And does she have any kind of income outside of, give us the whole income situation. That would be if she's taking social security or not, any other kind of pensions

and then a job. What's her income look like? Yeah. So she, um, she has social security and then she, she takes that and then she also substitute teaches. Um, but a recent, uh, kind of job event as, as maybe you ruled that out. So we're trying to encourage her to, you know, just get like any job. She has a college degree. She could go be a bank teller. Um, but, but she's very picky about what she wants to do. And, you know, so she's not very encouraged to go find a new job. What's her Social Security benefit payment? I think it's between $12 and $16. Is that enough to cover her bills?

Barely. Did she ask you for your help, your advice? Not really. So, you know, every now and then she'll ask me for money. Do you give it to her? Yeah, it's my mom, man. Yeah, I do. How often is she asking and how much?

I would say probably once a month. And, you know, anything I can do, whether it's an extra 20 or... Why would I get a job when I have Ryan? Yeah. He's the best part-time job out there. I get to sit at home and I ask him for money and he sends the check. Do you see what's happening here? That's a good here? You're not helping her. You're enabling her. And while I'm with you, it's great to let's respect and honor our mother and father. It doesn't mean we enable them and continue to let them live lives that are of misbehavior. So the truth is you can't, I wish we could change people because I know you love your mom and it's a very honorable thing to want to do, but I would not fund her retirement and go, well, mom, don't worry about it. We got you. We'll sacrifice our own financial

future since you didn't prepare at all. And if you're going to give her money, it's got to be a gift, which it has been so far, but there's no good future here. What if she lives to be 99 for the next 30 years? You're just funding her misbehavior. Yeah, it's not good. And we got to look at the long-term future, not just how do we help her in the next year. And so we're going to have to let her experience some pain so that she actually wants to make some changes while she still has her health. Is she healthy? Yes, she's actually, no medications, you know, great health. You know, I think this is, you called us, if it were me, I'd have a sit down with mom and I'd do exactly what George just said. I would say it to her and you got to be very respectful, but say,

mom, I realize because I love you so much, because of all you've done for me, I've been enabling you, and I can't do this, and I'm afraid I'm going to resent you, and you are in a situation where financially you will become a massive burden for me, and that's not how I want you to end, and I don't want the next season of our life to be this. I think this is a real honest but very respectful conversation to say, I don't think you want to be this to us, and I don't want this because I want the time that we have left with you to be about relationship and honor, not resentment and burden. And I think that's the conversation you've got to have. She may not respond well, may not like it, but you've got to do this for you. Because I'll tell you the person we haven't discussed on this call that I'm thinking about the most, and that's your wife.

This thing gets really sour pretty quick between the two of you because you, by enabling your mom, put your wife in a really, really tough situation that she didn't ask for. And I'm telling you, as a guy who's been married a long time, I'm telling you, you're not thinking about that. So I'm trying to be kind of that older bro right now and say, this thing is not only could create a wedge of resentment between you and your mom, even worse, a wedge of resentment between you and your wife. And I hope a wedge of resentment between you and your wife. And I hope this is a wake-up call for you. Have a respectful but very clear conversation, George, to where mom knows now there's a new reality and she's got to do something about it.

Have you talked to your wife about this? What does she think? Yeah, we've talked about it. You know, she definitely doesn't like it at all. And so that's why I'm trying to figure out... That would be the only reason I need to say, okay, if you're not comfortable with this, we're not doing it. Yeah. She's going to have to rely on the government for the rest of her life and make peace with her decisions.

George, in 30 seconds, what would you say to him about the fact that mom's only got $4,000, she needs to get a job, what is she doing on that retirement play? Let's say she's healthy. What would your advice be? She needs to work as long as she's physically able to create as much income as possible, save as much as she can of that income, get an emergency fund in place, invest as much as she can. Because compound interest, you know, she could live a better life than if she does nothing. She's not going to have a wild retirement, but we need to paint the picture of, hey mom, here's what the next 10, 20 years looks like if you continue down this path.

Another follow-up question. What do you think about long-term care, given that she's healthy now? Well, she can't afford it. It's the problem. Well, but if she works, she can. Yes? No? Maybe. I think it'll be pretty expensive for her. She can look into it, but it might be out of the budget. Is that something that he may look at? Oof. It might be, hey, mom, be with God and the government. Medicare and Medicaid is going to have to take care of you.

Okay. Wow. All right. Good stuff. I don't know if it's in the cards. All right. Got to run. Quick break. Be right back with more of your calls. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right. So I was born and raised in Texas,

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Visit betterhelp.com slash Ramsey Radio to get 10% off your first month. That's BetterHelp, H-E-L-P dot com slash Ramsey Radio. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Happy New Year, America. So excited you're with us. 888-825-5225 is the phone number to jump in. You've got a question about your budget. You've got a question about your debt.

Not enough check left over at the end of the month. Boy, oh boy, do you have the two guys you need today. George is going to help you manage the money, and I'm going to help you make more money. That's our goal. So give us a shout, 888-825-5225. Zach starts us off right now in Salt Lake City. Zach, how can we help?

Hi. Yeah, so my wife and I have been kind of mulling over a decision that we're – we've been trying to decide whether or not to move is kind of what we're looking at. So I currently bring in probably about 130 ish thousand between two different revenue streams. And the salary from one of them sits at about 80K, and there's a couple opportunities I have to bump that up to about 100K a year. The issue is we're still in baby step two.

We still have about 90K to pay down, and if we did make this move to this new job, it would require me to move. And we're just not sure if we should do that because we don't necessarily want to get out of the home that we already own. And we know that even if we did sell it, we most likely would not have the ability to purchase a home wherever we move to. We'd probably either have to rent it out or just do something else. Yeah. Okay. So it makes a lot of sense. By the way, really mature. Because I think the traditional response,

the human response to a job offer with more money is to go, well, I feel like I've got to take it because I'm an idiot. I'm a moron. I'd be crazy not to take a big bump like that. And I think you're probably feeling some of that, and that's very natural. But for you to say, well, I'm not sure we want to make that move, I think that's mature. I only have one other question on this one that I think would make it fairly obvious to me. If you were to take the new job, and let's put the extra bump in salary aside, would that put you on the ladder that you eventually want to be at the top of?

In other words, does it fast forward your ultimate professional goals? Yeah, it moves me in the right direction for sure. I work in IT, and this would bump me more into like a network engineer versus just like network admin. So kind of a move in the right direction for me as far as career path. Well, then I would consider that more than I would, man, we really like our current house. Now that's me. And I think George, you can make the case and I'm bringing you in. You could make the case. And I said, it was mature to go. I'm not sure we want to leave this community. I'm not sure we want to leave this, this house. Uh. I think that's also, George, equally something to consider.

Just the kin answer, I would always lean towards, I want to move up the ladder if I've got a good opportunity and I got to give something up. You know, John Maxwell, my former boss, legendary leadership guru, said, you got to give up to go up. And the question is uh zach what are you willing to give up to go up the ken answer and i'm going to see to you george my answer is i'm going to give up the comfortable home the zip code the friends and family question is how great is your life in salt lake and what would it be like where you're going to move to? Would you be miserable in this new area? Is cost of living any different? Family, you know, as you weigh those pieces, because here's the thing, like there's going to be a nice, you're going to find your new dream home wherever you move to eventually. It may be a year from now when you rent for a year and you go, wow, that was a

fun adventure. So I don't want to make a long-term decision just based on, well, I like the home we're in. So where would you be moving? Right. We have a couple options because it would be for government contract work. So I could either go north about an hour and a half from where we're at, and I'm not going to drive two hours each way. That just doesn't make sense to me. No. So you'd be moving there.

Another option would be moving there. Or there are some options and opportunities with the same employer to go out to the Kentucky, southern Indiana area. What does your wife think about this? She's on board for moving. She's been wanting to get out of our town home for a while now well you buried the lead man happy wife happy life you said i love my home your wife says i hate this home well we both wanted to get out it's just the financial

so you don't like this home you said i like the home we're in you like the price point of the house you're in there we go yeah but you got george here george is mr budget guy all right so let's by the way how does this not make sense to make more money we're talking about a uh about a twenty thousand dollar bump in your in your main salary you still got the opportunity to make extra money on the side as well like you are now correct yes george and if you're making more money and moving to a lower cost of living area, you're going to get more house. So you could get a better house for the same price for the one you're living in. You're scared of the unknown. If you move to

Kentucky, for example. You're scared of the unknown. Correct. Just go to Indiana or Kentucky and do a weekend visit. Yes. And go look at housing. Spend a couple hours tonight on one of those real estate sites. I love these things. You can type in literally the area, a zip code, and it'll show everything. Ken just found out about these apps. It's amazing. There's this website. You type in a zip code, it'll show you homes.

That's not what I always say. I was trying not to endorse anybody. No, I appreciate that. I've got my personal favorite. You saw me pull the plane up a little bit there. Starts with an R. Yeah. I always say. I was trying not to endorse anybody. No, I appreciate that. I've got my personal favorite. You saw me pull the plane up a little bit there. Starts with an R. Yeah, I like it. It's good information, though.

My point is, in the comfort of your home tonight, by the fire, you guys could start looking at real houses and real prices in these areas where you could go work. This is the thing. You're scared to death of the unknown, and the answer to that is, go get some answers. Are they covering any relocation expenses? This particular employer wouldn't, and I guess that leads me to a follow-up question. Should we

keep the place we currently have and rent it out? No. We've thought about that. Don't do that. Just sell it. No, you don't want to be a long-distance landlord. That's our position across the board. Okay. It always sounds like a good idea in theory until you have to deal with the reality of it. I love Dave's philosophy on this. He goes, if you lived in Kentucky,

would you go searching for a rental property for a townhome in Salt Lake City? The answer is no. So, therefore, let's get rid of it. We're holding on to it for the wrong reasons. And you need that money to then roll into your next house. Where did scared Zach about the new house payment go? Now he's a real estate guru.

Yeah, now you're a real estate baron. What's going on? You're all over the place. Yeah, no, I get it.'re having some fun we've just been mulling this over for a while trust me we get we're having a good time if you if you take the offer and you're going to make the move and they're not covering any moving expenses then we'll pause the baby steps stack up cash until we make the move and we settle in then we'll hit play again and making at that point 150k you're going to knock out your debt faster,

and you'll likely have a home eventually. Maybe you rent for a little while and just put that money from the profits and savings, and you'll get a home a year from now once you've settled in, figure out the neighborhoods, schools, all that good stuff. Yeah, I got to tell you,

George and I are in full agreement, the two judges here on the panel, move or not move, move or stay, we say move. This is a no-brainer i think this is what your heart wants am i right yeah we want to get out we want to home for our kids to be able to bro this is a no-brainer the studio audience is just waiting for you to make this decision they're going to be throwing rocks at the glass at the glass if you keep asking questions

about this this is a no-brainer uh You know what? You've done a very good job of thinking through everything, but you're overthinking now. Do it. You guys have been so smart. If you get off the phone and say, hey, babe, we're moving. I'm taking the offer. Would she be stoked? Yeah, I think she'd be happy with it. We'd be both very happy with it. It's a little ways away from family, which gives her some pause. That's her biggest thing.

Mine was the money part, but she'd be totally on board. She wants the news. Is she near you right now? Are you guys in the same house or building, or are you separate? No, she's at home. I'm actually at work right now. All right, my friend, listen, I'm putting you on hold. Zach's on the clock. Zach, you're on the clock. Call her right now and say, hey, listen, I just talked to these two nitwits and they think we should move. And she's going to be thrilled. It's going to be okay. That's why they make planes to

fly and see family. All right. Don't move. Good work there, George. Yeah, you're knit and I'm wet. You feel good about yourself? Yeah. I think I get to be wet. Knit and wet. I like that. That's good.

All right, quick break. We'll be right back with more of your calls. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, where we help you win with your money, win in your work, and win with your relationships. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Alongside George Campbell, I'm Ken Coleman. Excited to have you with us. Dan starts us off in Tampa, Florida.

Dan, how can we help? Gentlemen, good afternoon. How are y'all? Good afternoon, sir. How can we help? I've got a quick question. So I have been setting aside budgeting a couple dollars every month the last few years here towards an engagement ring.

I will not likely be spending that money anytime soon. And so I was wondering if there's a better option. I mean, I'm sure there is, but I was wondering what your thoughts are on a better option or I mean, I'm sure there is, but I was wondering what your thoughts are on a better option or how to use this cash rather than just have it sitting in the drawer and losing value on rising rates and everything. So there's no one in mind. You were just saving up?

I'm single as a Pringle. Wow. You're really looking ahead. Hold on a second. Did you say single as a Pringle. Wow. You're really looking ahead. Hold on a second. Did you say single as a Pringle, as in like a chip? I did. I got to tell you, I've never heard that one before. It's very exciting.

I apologize. My ADHD was flaring. Go ahead, George. It doesn't take much to excite Ken these days. Well, I like it. I've never heard that before. That's a good line. But it makes sense.

I'm getting it. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So you're saving this money for a future lady in your life. It doesn't even exist. That is the plan. She exists in prayer and thought, and that's about it right now.

Are there other things that you should be saving for? I'm sure there are. Do you have any debt? Kind of. Oh, Dan. It had a sense that it just didn't add up. What do you have? What is sort of?

What does that mean? Well, I have about $ one thousand dollars in vehicle debt and i say kind of because it's technically under uh my i have a full-time job but i also have a side business cleaning um cleaning gum from public roadways and sidewalks and stadiums and all that jazz and so the vehicle is technically under the business, but it is... Dan, you signed the papers, not the imaginary business guy. How big of a car do you need to get gum off the road? It's a truck just to haul around the equipment. What's the truck worth?

The truck is worth, I checked this morning, $58,000. And what size truck is this? It's a three-quarter ton this morning, $58,000. And what size truck is this? It's a three-quarter ton, so around $2,500. And you need something that big to haul around the gum, getter, upper equipment? No, not necessarily. I can downsize. You see where we're going here? All right, George, walking through getting rid of this monster.

He doesn't need this giant $58,000 truck for a side business that scoops gum up. You're going to make, what, $16,000 in profit that you could then use to pay cash for a used truck? I could, yeah. That's what I'd be doing. Ding, ding, ding. Listen, if we're on a first date and you're telling me about your 50,000 gum truck, that's a red flag for me. You know what I mean? I totally understand.

Then the reason I went with the, you know, I bought that vehicle as opposed to something used is just when I go to demos and meetings, I wanted a vehicle that was clean and looked nice. Nobody cares. When you're like being presentable type of thing. Nobody cares. When I'm hiring gum guy, I'm not going, he better show up with a nice dually on that thing. I'm hiring the one guy on the planet who's going to get the gum off the street. They don't care what your truck looks like.

In fact, they kind of expect you to drive. In fact, if I'm hiring a guy today to come get gum off the street, I kind of want to see the guy that's got a car with two-tone paint on it, the bumper's beat up. I go, now that's a guy who can get the gum up. Then I go, he's not charging me for his truck payment as part of this. I see a guy with a beat-up truck, I go, he's going to charge a fair price. I see a guy with a $50,000 truck, I go, I'm getting taken to the cleaners.

Would you consider, Dan, getting this gum off the public streets? It's a dirty job. Have you heard of this concept? My friend Mike Rose got a very popular show called Dirty Jobs. I think I'm familiar with it, but I don't know much about it. Would you consider what you do a pretty dirty job? It's not a fun job. You can be, yeah. All right. My point is you don't need a fancy truck. We're trying to drive this home. So get rid of that. What's the truck payment on that?

Yeah, y'all are going to love this. About $700 a month. There's your ring cost when we get the lovely lady interested. So sell the truck. Use the proceeds to buy a used truck. You can use some of your savings if you need a $17,000 truck, if you really need it. And then whatever money's left over becomes your emergency fund.

And let's start stacking money on top of that to get to three to six months of expenses. Then we can start investing and any money beyond that, we can begin saving up for a ring in a separate account. But truthfully, I wouldn't even start saving

until I meet this person. Yeah, I agree. Because you're making enough money to where you can cash flow a nice ring. That's what we're getting. Yeah, clearing that $700 payment, it's not going to take you long to save up another $10,000 for a ring. Yeah.

You got it, Dan? We're talking a year and a half at that point. And you probably should be dating this person for a little while before making that kind of commitment. Drop the truck. You don't need a fancy schmancy truck. All right? Get rid of the truck.

Keep scooping the gum. Retained earnings. More profits. Start listening to the Entree Leadership Podcast. All right? He's got himself in a sticky situation, Ken. Oh, there he is, folks. There's George.

I thought it was going to be all rainbows and gumdrops. I'm supposed to do the dad jokes, but you're dad now, so welcome. Thank you. By the way, the Ramsey Network app is the only place to get the full episode of The Ramsey Show. So, for instance, this is our second hour. If you want to get the third hour, the only place you can get it is the Ramsey Network app. You can download it for free using the link in the show notes or by searching the Ramsey Network in your app store.

Now, if you're on radio, stay tuned. We've still got a lot of show coming to you. And to that end, how about a question from the Ramsey Network in your app store. Now, if you're on radio, stay tuned. We still got a lot of show coming to you. And to that end, how about a question from the Ramsey Network app? What do you say, George? I like it. This is from Scott. He asks, my wife had significant student loan debt with multiple loans. We paid off most of them.

The last one is a mortgage against her parents' house. It's about $29,000. They want to move soon, and we need the loan in our name. Do we take out a personal loan, refinance our house, get a HELOC, or something different? What say you, George? Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, how about those options? Mortgage against her parents' house, $29,000.

They want to move. We need a loan in our name. Because her last student loan is a mortgage against the parents' house. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah, I would refinance. That's probably your best option for the best rates and terms on that thing, is just to refinance it. Because the HELOC will have a variable rate in a lot of cases,

and it's going to be higher than what you'd get on a traditional mortgage rate. And the amount shouldn't be a problem to get that amount. Small amount when it comes to student loans. Exactly. And personal loan, again, not going to have quite the terms of a mortgage. So I'd contact our good friends at Churchill Mortgage and get a refinance done on this. And it looks like they've paid off a good amount. We don't know the amount of money they've paid off. So it looks like they've got the discipline to do this. And that gets them

free and clear of the parents, which is, again, always messy. You're always preaching about this kind of stuff where family members come to the table they want to help so they go hey well you can do this put it on our blah blah blah and then you get in a situation like this this one doesn't seem like it's sticky i hate what the gum pun is still going but uh as soon as they want to move now you're dead that's right that's right so this is why we preach just stay out of that stuff all together yeah wow you give me a lot to chew on today ken so make it stop this hour is he you can do this you you have the ability to keep doing this this is all my brain wants to think about but instead we have to work we have to be

professionals well yeah i'm trying to think right now like this whole situation like where this young man got the truck right and he's in the gum business. I need to Google this business. Yeah, scooping up the gum off. And I'll bet you he's getting paid by municipalities. It sounds like these are public roads, things like that. So I was going to come back to this. I wanted to get to the network app question.

But coming back to the situation, this is a really good potential business for this guy because if he does a really good job, then you start getting- He's the go-to gum guy. All over the state or wherever, and it's pretty easy money because not everybody's lining up to do that, but he doesn't need the fancy truck. Is it relegated to just gum? That's the question. Is it any sticky substance on the road? I got to believe if you can get gum up, you can get gunk up. Maybe it's gum and gunk.

I don't know. But he doesn't need... I'm trying to come up with an analogy. You don't want it to blow up in your face. Have you seen that business, College Hunks Hauling Junk? He could be like College Hunk getting rid of gunk. I don't like where you're taking this. And with that, I rest my case.

We did gum and gunk, and then you had to bring in College Hunks. Nobody knows why. It's a business. Everyone knows the business. You know this business? There's one lady in the lobby who's apparently paying attention to the College Hunks. Nobody knows why. Everyone knows the business. You know this business? There's one lady in the lobby who's apparently paying attention to the College Hunks. Nobody else in the lobby even knows what we're talking about. I'll fill Ken in on this break.

All right. We'll look it up. Only on your computer, though. All right. Good hour, George. Thank you, sir. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome to The Ramsey Show America, where we help you win in your life specifically we want you to

win with your money win in your work and win with your relationships triple eight eight two five five two two five is the phone number triple eight eight two five five two two five i'm ken coleman joined by the absolutely phenomenal money whiz himself. He is George Campbell. So kind. And glad to be with you. George is going to focus in on your traditional money questions. And if some of you out there are going, I need to make more money, George.

Ken, I need more money. I'm your guy. Probably a lot of people's goals for 2025. Let's talk about how you can grow yourself professionally so that you make more financially taking any of those calls. Of course, let's get right to it. Youngstown, Ohio. Chase is there. Chase, how can we help? Hey, how are you guys? We're doing well. What's going on with you? That's great. Oh, well, I'm good. I am calling, and I know you guys get this question somewhat often, but I'm on baby step six.

And I'm sort of just kind of having a hard time justifying paying off my house early versus like further investing. Yes, we've heard this a time or two, George. So you're currently investing 15% and you have how much extra money that you could throw at the mortgage or invest? How much are we talking? About $15,000 as of right now. A month or what? No, no, just kind of sitting there.

And I mean, that kind of is my emergency fund, but... Oh, well, then let's not touch it. I'm talking about beyond the emergency fund and your future income. Every single month, you clearly have some margin, right? To invest more or pay down the house more. How much would that be? If I continue to make what I'm currently making, probably about $1,000 a month. Awesome. That's serious money.

And what's your mortgage payment? So here's kind of where I have that struggle. My mortgage payment, including the insurance and tax, is $500 a month. What's left on your mortgage? Like $40,000. Oh, this thing's gone. What's the problem?

What do you mean by here's where I have the problem? The problem is my principal and interest is $223 a month. And I just feel like it's so insignificant if I were to pay that off. Oh, you think that paying off the house doesn't get you much because you're thinking $200 a month. You're freeing up less than $3,000 a year. That's what he's thinking. Okay. Right. Have you done the math on what an extra $3,000 a year would do for your investments over the next 40 years?

I have, yes, but that's kind of why I would rather just start that now instead of... I bet it'd be a near wash at that point because you're going to pay this thing off within a year or two? I think if I really wanted to, I could pay it off in probably less than five years if I really wanted to. Dude, five years to pay off 40 grand? A 12-year-old could do better than that. You make good money, don't you? What do you make? All right. I mean, about 70, 75 a year. That's good money. That's amazing. How old are you? I just turned 32 today, believe it or not. Congratulations. You married?

No, no, not yet. What are your future financial goals? What do you want to do with your life when it comes to money? I just want to be flexible when I'm older. That's really all I want to be able to do is just, I don't, I'm not like the type where, you know, I think I want to retire early because I think I'll be bored. I do sales and I love it. I just want to be flexible. You know, if I want to work 30 hours a week when I'm in my fifties, in my sixties, I want to be able to do that. No problem. So you want freedom.

You know, some vacations. Yeah. That's a very noble goal. I respect that. And so when you look at a mortgage, and clearly yours is not a giant risk here. It's a very small part of your world. Whenever you enter risk into the equation, it reduces freedom. There's a connection. There's a financial connection. There's a psychological and emotional connection. And so the key is, if you want freedom, own your house outright. Don't let the bank own it. If you want total control and freedom and flexibility, if you want peace of mind, pay off your house.

If you want to save thousands in interest instead of giving it to a lender, pay off the house early. If you want to build wealth faster, invest what was your mortgage payment, and you're going to be just fine. And if we want to argue about, well, I could have $10.4 million, but instead it'll be $10.1 million, we'll argue about that and have a good laugh. But to me, the reason I paid off my house was for all of the aforementioned reasons. It wasn't because Dave said I had to. It's because I truly believed it was going to lead to a better life with more freedom, which is what you told me you're after. Yeah, no, that makes sense. For whatever reason, like, I feel like if I were to buy another home, I would pay it off in, I mean, I don't know, 15 years max.

But I don't know if it has something to do with the timeline of, like, when I bought my house when I was 23, you know, I got a 30 year mortgage on it. I just, I don't know if it has something to do with like, hey, my house will be paid off when I'm 53. That sounds pretty good. I don't know. Sounds horrible to me to be in prison for 30 years paying a lender, dude. I mean, you're 32 and you've already knocked it down. You've been making extra payments already, right? No, I haven't made any extra payments toward my house. None.

Wow. So you just had a small mortgage to begin with. Yeah. Which tells me you already don't like risk. Yeah. Chase, can I take a stab at being wrong on something here? I think you've seen some TikToks or some Instagram reels where somebody has run through their quick little 90-second or 60-second formula on why you shouldn't pay this off, and it made sense to you,

and you're really struggling to try to get a different version of math on this. That's what I think you're dealing with. Am I right or am I wrong? It's a really good guess, but no, that actually is not. Well, I've been wrong before, so it's not new territory. Yeah, what's leading you to this point? I'm curious. What's gotten you to this place where you're like,

I don't even want to pay it off? Is it a low interest rate? I'm more interested in, well, yeah, it's a 3.5% interest rate. I honestly think it just has something to do with, like, if I wanted to put all this extra margin that I have into something where I'm only going to be saving myself $223 a month. I think that's what it boils down to. Yeah, but how much are you paying? Have you done the math on just the interest alone?

If you just let it ride for 30 years, how much interest would you pay? Yeah. What's that? I have done the math, but I kind of forget off the top of my head. It's not that much. It's less than half of the loan amount, I believe. Okay. Which would be what? I loaned like $49,000, I believe. Okay. $49,600 is the exact. And you'll end up paying $25,000 in interest. Something like that, maybe more.

That's a 50% interest rate. That sucks. Yeah. If Ken said, hey, I'll let you borrow $20, but you owe me $30, I'm like, whoa, whoa, the terms on that are insane. Not a good idea. I just don't think, the juice ain't worth the squeeze on this, man. First of all, it's not a big amount. You got a lot of life ahead of you. You do what you want. You're going to be just fine

either way. I found in my household, my life is better. I have more freedom, more flexibility. My family has more peace because we have a paid off house. There it is. One man's opinion. There it is. Chase, thanks for the call. There is the answer. And no matter how many times that call comes in, that's going to be the answer. All right, quick break. We'll be right back. Before you know it, this is the Ramsey Show. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman. George Camel is alongside. Thrilled to have you with us. 888-825-5225 is the phone number. Let's go to Justin, who is joining us in Denver, Colorado. Justin, how can we help today?

Hi, George. Hi, Ken. My question is about pensions. I don't hear a whole lot talked about pensions on your show. Yeah, a lot of tension around the pension, huh? All right, let's figure it out. I see what you did there. A little bit.

What's going on? I'm in baby steps four, five, and six, and I guess I'm just trying to decide how much I should be putting away into my 457. My pension is like a mandatory 12% requirement. So do I count any of that towards my 15% or is the 15% on top of that? With pensions, it is a little different. So I'm glad you asked. With a pension, well, do I count any of that towards my 15% or is the 15% on top of that? With pensions, it is a little different. So I'm glad you asked. With a pension, if you're making mandatory contributions from your own income, we would count that at about half. And so if you're required to put in 12%, we're going to call it 6%. And the reason is simple. The pensions will perform poorly and you have no control over it comparatively to a 401k or an IRA.

And so you would need to then still put another 9% to get to that 15% total. Okay. You getting that? That's simple enough. Yeah. No, I've been doing 15%. It just feels like a lot between that and the pension. So you're at like, what, 27% right now?

Yeah. Hey, if you get too much money, you can yell at us later. But you can dial it back down and count it at half, still invest another nine. And then beyond that, are you working to pay off your mortgage? Yeah, and that's why part of my call is that, you know, I feel like with how much is going towards my retirement, it's hard to put a ton extra towards my mortgage at the time, you know? Yeah. How old are you?

I'm 30. And what's left on the mortgage? $340,000. Okay. And do you have a goal set to pay that off early? Yeah. Unfortunately, it's a 30-year mortgage because I got it before I started listening to you guys, but I'd like to get under 15 and maybe closer to 10 years. Amazing. Well, and then kind of ratcheting down your investing a bit will help create some margin for that. So way to go. All right. Well, thanks. I really appreciate

the advice, Drew. It's a great question. Yeah. Yeah. Pensions can have just, they've gone away over time and been replaced with the 401k. They're easier to manage. They're less expensive to manage. And you know, you get more options in the 401k, but people love a pension because you get that kind of guaranteed income. It's one of those, it's like a security blanket. Everybody feels this is nice and warm, you know, they like it. But as you said, it's not the greatest investment tool. Love the advice. We get that question a lot. Really glad you covered that. Alexander's up next in West Palm Beach, Florida. Alexander, how can we help? Hey, how are you, Ken? Good. What's going on? And George.

And George. We don't want to leave George out. You can leave me out. No, I pay attention to all that stuff. I just watch y'all's podcasts with some other people this week. So y'all are very entertaining. Well, we're grateful for that. Quick question. I am in sales. I work for a tree company down here doing sales. I was just wondering, should I stay with a company? family owned company that has taken about $18,000 to $2,000 from me and is not willing to give it back over the last four or five months. I've been going back and forth with them. What do you mean by taken $2,000, $1,800 to $2,000? What do you mean by taken? So the way our sales structure works is uh we get commissions on things that we sell like most sales people do um i had a deal uh with a really big family down here

in the area um that netted about two hundred thousand dollars a year. And then I changed kind of the commission structure after I'd had that deal to where they said that I owed back some basically fuel fees that we're supposed to charge in our quotes. And when they changed the commission structure, was this a sit down with you or they just changed it and told you about it? No, just changed it. Just changed it. Ah, oof. I don't like that.

And you brought it up with your leader? Yeah, like after a year of having this contract, they came back and they didn't say anything to me. They just literally blindsided me. You just looked at your check and it was... $2,000 out of my... Yep. Doc pay? It said negative $2,100. really blind blind side of me you just looked at your check and it was out of my yep negative

two thousand one hundred dollars and i said what's up with this and they said well you were supposed to be charging fuel fees for this last year and i said well i had this contract before that rule applied and they said well it is what is. So what do you make working for them? Um, so I have a base of 60 and then on top of that, I get commissions that average, uh, out to about probably, I'd say I'd take home 95 a year. Okay. Let's say you left today. Could you go make 95 doing sales and sales at another company or a different field?

That's a good question because I just started doing this sales thing about three years ago when I started with them. And every month that I've been here, it's been getting bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, which is kind of like hesitant to leave. And there's some other factors as to why I probably shouldn't leave because they really need me. Well, that's not a reason to stay. That's not a reason to stay. The question is, how do you feel about this? You called us and you led with, they took $2,000 from me.

I think I know where your head's at, but tell us. I feel hurt. Okay, then. I feel hurt. And you've explained this to them and they said. Then I feel hurt. And you've, you've, you've explained this to them and they said, it is what it is. Did you express your, I know you told them, uh, I had a contract that was preexisting and they said, it is what it is. Have you expressed your hurt and how it made you feel to your leader? I did. And I have a couple leaders and I've said,

look, you know, I got a percentage of the fuel fees that you guys said I should have been charging. And instead of giving me or me just like paying that percentage that I should have been paying you, they took the entirety of the 100% instead of the 60%. Right, but you told them how you felt. What'd they say? The 84% back to me, and they were refusing to give it to me. Right. And so my guess is they told you to pound sand. They're not worried about your feelings.

Basically, yeah. Okay. Can you get over that? I'm going to... Be honest. I don't... Is this going to live rent-free in your head, and you're going to harbor more resentment? I could get over it, but I feel like I'm not going to work less or work any less hard or anything for the company that

they're they're nice people i've always worked that's because you're a good man hold on just a good christian guy that always likes to do the right thing which is why you're going to do a good job that's not what i asked you i said can you get over this to where you walk into work one day in the near future and you're not thinking about that in the back of your brain at all times? Yes or no? I mean, I'm not going to lie. I have been thinking of it every day for the last five months it's been going on. I think if I were you, I would leave because I don't think I

could get over that either. I don't like the way it feels. And I don't think this is something you have to, you know, be the better man on. I think you already are being a better man by showing up and doing a good job. It's not enough to kick the desk over George and throw a fit. I would find something. George's question is the question that I would have asked, and it's the question you need to answer. Let's go find something that allows me to make 95 to 115, 120 with a nice ladder. And then when you find that, you walk in one day with some class and go, hey, guys, thanks for the opportunity to be here.

I got a better gig, and I'm going to take that gig. That's exactly how I would do it. And just don't even mention it. No, you've already mentioned it. No need to burn the bridge on the way out. There's nothing to bring up anymore. Right, George? I mean, he's already done it and they basically were like, kick rocks. Yeah. And you might have a good experience moving forward too. So I, again, I wouldn't like let this harbor, you know, the well has been poisoned. If you've been thinking about this for five months, it's going to be hard to undo that level of anger. What would you do,

George? I would, I would again, bring it up to the leader and probably get over it and be looking for a new opportunity. Yeah, but I don't think he's going to get over it. I don't think you could or I could. I think get over it may be relative. Yeah, I'd get over it and go back to work with a smile on my face and do a good job. But you're never going to forget that. And I think that that's a pretty damaging thing, and I don't think you have to put up

with that. And it's not. I mean, the employer really, like, get over it. Give the guy the money, do the right thing, and move on. This is $1,800. You're losing a great sales guy over this? That's the story. That's what angers me with these small businesses.

Boneheaded leadership. This guy, he said it. They need me. I think he's right. This is leadership 101 stuff. Just so dumb. People are your greatest, greatest resource. Don't blow that. Alright, quick break. We'll be right back.

More of the Ramsey Show right around the corner. Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman. So thrilled to have you with us. 888-825- 5225 is the phone number. Well, we've been talking about it, having a little bit of fun on the show today about it is a new year, and it's hard to believe that we've just started the clock,

and here we go. And if you're not careful, I hate to tell you, George, it sounds like an old man, but you're going to wake up, and it's spring break, and then you wake up, and it's Easter, and then you wake up and it's Easter, and the year can get away from you. So now's the time to reset goals when it comes to your money. And millions of people have tried what I believe is pretty close to the financial Bible, and that's the total money makeover, a proven step-by-step plan. We talk about it all the time. We give the book away all the time on the show. It's going to help you dump debt, build wealth,

and create a future you can get excited about. So whether or not you got to get rid of credit card debt, or you're ready to build up savings, or you're beginning to invest for your future, 2025 is the year to do it. Go to ramsaysolutions.com slash store today to get the book Total Money Makeover. That's ramsaysolutions.com slash store today. Or you can go to the show notes, and we've got a link there. All right, Chris is on the line in Columbus, Ohio. Chris, how can we help? Hello? Hi, Chris.

You're on the air. Hi, how are you? Good. What's going on? So I'm trying to get my life together, I guess, now. I recently became a truck driver. I've been driving for like a year now. Nice. And I'm wanting to become an owner operator, but I don't want to have any debt. I downloaded the app. Every dollar? Yes, every dollar had that app, and I just started with December, and I am like completely overwhelmed.

My question is, I don't have any kids or no college fund or anything I need to do. I don't have a mortgage payment. I basically live out of my truck, and when I come home for home time, I stay with my parents. So I don't have any type of bills or anything like that my question is I did the um the budget and I had a lot of money left over for the month so my question is what do I do with that I still have debt to pay I understand to pay it off but what like instead of the seven steps like what other steps do i do because i don't have to do the whole seven because i don't have any bills or anything well the the steps don't really have

to do with bills it's just doing focused things one at a time especially as you're getting out of debt so baby step one is a thousand dollar starter emergency fund you have a thousand dollars set aside in savings no i don't and i can probably do that probably in the next 30 days. Good. So as you budget, here's how to make it not overwhelming. You're going to list your income at the top. We know what that's going to be, right? Your take-home pay?

Mm-hmm. Yes. Then below that is all of our expenses, and we've listed it out really from the most important to probably the least important. You have kind of your big bills up front. You still have to pay insurance, right? You have health insurance? You have auto insurance? No, I don't have a car anymore,

but I am still paying for like my daughter's car. I think I owe like maybe $2,000 on it or something. Okay. But I don't have a car or anything. You got to pay for food. Yeah, I do pay for food. So we do have some bills in there. And if, you know, subscriptions, whatever else is in your life, we're going to list it all out on that budget. And then at the bottom of the budget, we do have some bills in there. And if, you know, subscriptions, whatever else is in your life, we're going to list it all out on that budget. And then at the bottom of the budget, we'll have your debt. And you're going to list just the minimum payment of that debt as part of your monthly budget. So once you do that, you're going to see a number. Hopefully there's a lot left over, right?

Like let's say there's $700 left over to budget still. That's going to go toward your smallest debt, whatever the smallest balance is. So tell me the smallest balance you have right now. I believe it's like my Apple card. I think it's like $650 or something like that. Amazing. So that's probably, you have $1,000 for the starter emergency fund next month.

Month after that, the Apple card is gone. You freed up a payment. Now we're going to apply it to the next debt and the next debt. You see how the snowball starts to gain snow as you pay off your debts? Mm-hmm. So that's exactly how to make that budget not overwhelm you, but instead excite you because you're going to see the progress being made. And beyond that, once you have all your debt paid off, how much are we talking here in debt?

Oh, probably about, I'd say probably about $60,000. Okay. And you're making how much? Probably about $4,500 a month. Okay. So how long do you think it'll take you to pay off that debt making $60,000? Maybe three years? That sounds about right with that income. Which tells me, you know, knowing on average it takes people about 18 to 24 months to get out of debt following the Ramsey plan, that tells me, even with no bills, we have a lot of debt and we need more income. So how do you increase your income in the field that you're in or outside of it?

I probably can pick up extra days. I probably can pick up a couple extra days. How much money would that turn into if you were to do that on a monthly basis for a certain amount of time? Ballpark. Ballpark, maybe an extra, maybe an extra $250 a week. All right. So you start adding that up as well. And now this is all going into what George is telling you, just pumping every additional dime that you can into this process. And you're going to come out of this thing in really great shape. Think about that. If you make, let's call it $6,000 a month take home pay, and you only need $1,000 to live, the other $5,000 can go toward extra debt payoff which means 12 months from now times five thousand sixty grand you're debt-free in a year so i want you to have a goal that scares you a little bit that makes you go yeah all right let's get to work right i don't

want to go where you go i could do it in three years yeah sounds fine i want a goal that you go i gotta get to work or else. Yeah. And once you do that, then we can start saving up an emergency fund. She had a question. What was your question? You said I can be done with it in a year? I'm saying if you can throw $5,000 total at your debt, you said you had 60K, basic math says you're done in a year. Now, $5,000 is more than you're taking home right now.

So we need to increase our income to make that happen. Which is why I asked you about those extra shifts. So based on your ballpark of $250 a week, that's an additional $1,000. That's $12,000 a month, a year. Yeah. So that's an additional $12,000. So George is saying, if you could put $5,000 per month, Chris, towards this debt, you're done in a year. Got you. Okay. And then you are really stacking cash. Then you got the emergency fund to save up for. That's baby step three. Once you have that, three to six months of expenses, you begin investing. Do you have a retirement plan through your employer?

No, I do not. So you can still invest. You can look into something called a Roth IRA. Anybody with earned income can open one of these. The contribution limit for the year is $7,000. And so making what you make, $60,000, and 15% of that is $9,000. So you would actually be able to max out a Roth IRA in, let's say, two years from now. Okay. Okay. So you see how the baby steps just, they set you up to do one thing at a time

so that you're focused. So even if you don't have kids or college to save up for, we still need Chris to have some serious money goals. Right. And so hang on the line. I'm going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke. We'll send you the audio book as well

so that when you're in the truck, you can listen to it. Is that better for you? Yeah. Yeah, I like the audio. Yes. That's what I do. Yes. Wonderful. Listen to that. I think it will inspire you, give you some great tools, motivate you. And that comes with three months of every dollar premium for free. So check that out. It's going to give you some cool tools connected to your bank account. There's a paycheck planning tool, a financial roadmap tool. The team's constantly updating that. So I'm rooting for you, Chris. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. Yeah, you got this. Hopefully you've got some confidence now, and we're going to keep walking you through this. Stay in tune to the show. Get on the website, ramsdayclusions.com. Get

every resource you can get, plus what we're giving you. And then this is going to become a part of your normal behavior. And the more normal it becomes, the easier it is just to kind of lock in and just play this thing out. And you're going to be a very wealthy truck driver, Chris. That's what I think. I want you to be an owner operator one day, like you said, debt free. Yeah, that's what I'm trying to do before I, yeah, I'm not going to do it until I'm debt free. Come on, Chris. You're going to be a trucking magnet. I'd trying to do. I'm not going to do it until I'm debt free. Come on, Chris. You're going to be a trucking magnet. I'd love to hear it.

That's important, Ken. New year, you go, I'm overwhelmed. The first time you ever work out, you're overwhelmed. The first time you ever make a budget, you're overwhelmed. Over time, if you just show up every day, you look at the budget, look at the bank account, track your expenses. Over time, it becomes less overwhelming and it becomes overjoyed. I wish you could hear my very first radio shows. We've put that in the bunker.

It's in a vault somewhere. It takes time. You've got to keep showing up, turn the mic on, deal with the pulse racing, get comfortable with it. It's just like anything else, stick with this stuff. The reason we call them the baby steps, Dave was genius, that they are incremental. They're not giant steps.

They're baby steps. That's doable. Quick break. We'll be right back. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. Alongside George Camel, I'm Ken Coleman. Our scripture today comes from Deuteronomy 11, verse 12.

It is a land the Lord your God cares for. The eyes of the Lord your God are continually on it from the beginning of the year to its end. Our quote from Thomas Sowell. My favorite New Year's resolution was to stop trying to reason with unreasonable people. This has reduced both my correspondence and my blood pressure.

That's a good one. The great Thomas Sowell. Always still hits. Dropping the quotes. Timeless. Like they're hot. Dave is joining us in Maui, Hawaii. Dave, how can we help?

Aloha. Aloha, sir. Oh, boy, wish I was with you right now, pal. Set it next to George. I know. But such is life. So, in a nutshell, I'm 55, no retirement, credit is shot. I own about $190, $195 on my mortgage.

My real estate's worth about $4 million. Whoa. Yeah, well, back in 2004 when they were handing out mortgages like candy, I bought three homes and so I have, you know, whatever, rental property and then a home that I live in. How much do you owe on the $4 million worth of property? $190, $195. Oh, that's not bad.

But here's the kicker. Here's the kicker. Okay. So I owe $200,000 in taxes that I haven't filed. Why? When's the last time you filed? Yeah, because I sold two years ago because I sold a home. And then I bought, you know, like I said, they were handing out. You remember that?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we're trying to follow. Where's the cash? Where's the cash that you made? I bought another home. I bought two more homes, and I paid them off cash, yeah, in cash. But I didn't pay the taxes on that sale. So what's your question for us? I guess I got to pay the taxes.

Well, that's not a question. That's a fact. Well, but I don't have the money, so I guess I got to sell. You know, I have three kids. I just put one through college. I have another have the money. So I guess I got, I got to sell. I don't, you know, I have three kids. I just put one through college. I have another one in college. I, you know, uh, well, let me tell you something. This, this is, this reminds me of a football game scenario. All right. You got,

you got no timeouts and you, you, you got it. You got to go to the Hail Mary. That's all you got. You got to sling it to the end zone, your least favorite property. And so that's the Hail Maryary in this one you don't have any other options you got to pay these taxes you're going to jail dave you am i missing something no okay so i mean that's that's really what we've got to do you got to sell one of these properties dude out of all the people you could owe money to the irs is the worst one. They are the most powerful collections agency in the world. They can garnish your wages.

They can seize your assets. So do you want to do it the hard way, or do you want to do it the easy way, where you're in control? What's your least favorite property? What's it worth? What could you sell it for? A million. Okay, so you sell it for a million. Hold you sell i don't know hold on a second i gotta i'm paying taxes on that again but dave i don't understand why you're so like

no i know i mean you literally sold and made money you made a bajillion dollars you did not pay your taxes yeah i know but this is hawaii so it's different here than it would be in Wisconsin. So what are the taxes owed if you sell this property? No, time out. We're getting off subject again. I was making a point. Dave, you're acting... Back to football. No, not football, but you're acting as though, like, this is this...

I can't believe I got... This was always a part of the deal. No, because I want my kids to have, you know... They will. They can visit you in jail if you want. Well, you have these properties. That could be fun. We're only talking about one house to clear this debt. Yeah, yeah. So let's walk through this. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I'm just stressed out about it. Dave, I know. Dave, listen to me. I know you're stressed. You're not thinking clearly, and George and I would like to help you think clearly.

Will you let us help you think clearly? Yeah. Okay, let's walk through this, George. George's going to walk you through this. You sell for a million. What are your taxes owed? There you go. On the property sale.

What will you owe in taxes? Do them out. I don't know. What do you mean you don't know? On the house that I haven't sold yet? Yes. Yeah, there'll be a what, a capital gains tax on it? Yeah, I mean, I've had the property for 20 years.

Let me ask this a simpler way. Dave, the property that we're saying, one of your properties we're saying to sell to clear all this mess up, what will you walk away with, my friend? When the deal is done, what will you walk away with? Maybe $600,000. How much do we owe the IRS? Because I got to pay the two. I got to pay the two. Dave, let me do the talking and you answer. Dave, let me walk you through this. I'm going to be better at this than you, all right? You're going to walk away with $600,000. How much do you owe the IRS? $200,000. Great. So we pay that. How much does that leave you left over? Well, so if I sell it for a million, then... He's saying he'll have six after he pays the IRS. I don't know why this is so difficult to answer these questions. Dave, sell a house. And after I paid the tax on that too, so I'm figuring 200, another 200 maybe or more. Let's just guesstimate 200 in taxes for the property sale and 200 to pay back the IRS.

You have 600 left. You can pay off your own mortgage with that. So you got 600,000 and you got out of this mess, my friend. That's what we're trying to help you understand. This is easy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're sitting there going, oh, I don't want to get rid of one of the properties. Again, you want to go to jail? They're going to seize your assets. It's not a choice that you get to make of just avoiding paying taxes. The question is, do you want to

do it now on your terms or on their terms later? And I'm telling you, you want to do it now on your terms. So your real estate portfolio will go down to do it now on your terms so your real estate portfolio will go down to three million dollars and you can wipe your tears with hundred dollar bills i don't care yeah none of us are feeling bad for you right now dave you're really kind of blessed to be able to get out of this hole really blessed i mean holy and then with the other money with more profits i'm paying off the mortgage and i'm saying no to debt ever again it's what got you in this mess in the first place. Yeah.

And so we got real starry-eyed with the real estate portfolio. It's time to take a step back and go, all right, I'm 55. I've been living with a lot of stress. The next 20, 30 years of my life, I want peace. I want to retire with dignity one day. And that might mean I need to slow down on my real estate guru tactics here and start putting away money in retirement. Start diversifying the portfolio and living on less than I make. I mean, this really is, you talk a lot about traps. This is a great example. We're not picking

on Dave. Dave's a smart guy. Thankfully, Dave can get out of this mess. He's done very well. But this is the trap of, I've got all this stuff, and I go, oh. I mean, he literally was like, I got to pay my taxes? And if anyone understands not wanting to pay taxes, it's Ken Coleman. I don't like taxes at all. I mean, I'd go throw tea in the harbor today. He would have been there. You know what? I would have been there.

I would have been on the ship throwing the tea into the harbor. But the bottom line is you got to pay the taxes. And all of this gain, to your point, doesn't matter if your life gets ruined because the IRS wants to make a poster boy out of you. And here's what I do when I'm in a pickle like this and it's beyond my pay grade I reach out to an expert and in this case Dave needs a great tax pro. So I would jump on to ramsaysolutions.com slash tax get in touch with a Ramsey trusted tax pro who can help you bring facts to the table. Right now it's's a lot of unknowns. It's a lot of just fear and stress. And I don't even know how much taxes I can. What would the taxes be on that?

Well, a tax pro will just help you go, all right, here's what the taxes would be. Here's the most efficient strategic way to do this. Here's how to deal with the IRS. And they're not going to be scared. They're not going to bat an eyelash at this. And again, to new listeners, okay, you've been listening to this call. This is, I'm going to go back to the football analogy. Do you want to be stuck with no timeouts, five seconds left in the game, and hope for a miracle through a Hail Mary? Is this a fourth down situation? No, you want to have a good game plan. There's no need for all the stress. There's no need for this stuff. Just run the baby steps like it's a play. This is what we do on first down. This is what we do on second down.

This is what we do on third down. And here's the deal. Guess what? We know how it's going to turn out. You know? We know if we run the ball this way and everybody executes their blocks, we're going to get a first down. Nobody wins the Sugar Bowl accidentally. You've got to be intentional. You've got to

get a game plan and you've got to practice and you've got to be intentional. You've got to get a game plan, and you've got to practice, and you've got to stay with it. So there it is. Go Dawgs. No Hail Marys. No Hail Marys. Are you really rooting for Georgia? You don't even know who they are.

I know you love them. Doesn't that make me a great friend? You are a good friend. All right. Good show today. Thanks to David Fortin, our fearless producer, keeping us on the air. My goodness. I don't know how he does it.

In spite of ourselves. Thank you.