The Ramsey Show - App - Your Income Is Your Greatest Wealth-Building Tool (Hour 2)

Episode Date: April 3, 2023

Dave Ramsey & Ken Coleman answer your questions and discuss: "I'm hesitant to go into the family business..." "Should I move my 401(k) to a Roth?" Whether or not to pause tithing while paying off debt. Have a question for the show? Call 888-825-5225 Weekdays from 2-5pm ET Want a plan for your money? Take our FREE 3 minute assessment: https://bit.ly/3nInETX Listen to all The Ramsey Network podcasts: https://bit.ly/3GxiXm6 Learn more about your ad choices. https://www.megaphone.fm/adchoices Ramsey Solutions Privacy Policy

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the pods, moving, and storage studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual amazing relationships. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, host of The Ken Coleman Show, is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. 888-825-5225 is the number.

Christian is calling from Los Angeles to start this hour. Hi, Christian. Welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi. Thanks for having me. Sure. What's up? I have a career question relating to working in a family business. I'm graduating college in December, and I feel a lot of pressure from my family to stay in the family business, but I'm not sure that that's the best path for me, especially since

I have like big goals of starting a family next year or getting married more specifically and moving out. I just don't think that it would be the right move. And so I was wondering if you had any advice on navigating that conversation. Well, what has happened so far? I'm curious to know what's been said so far, anything at all, or have you just kind of swept it under the rug? No, there's definitely been some things said, like, um, I've had conversations with my dad about what I want to do. And he seems to have an understanding of it. But, um, my grandmother has said things as far as like, we're going to buy you out and like, we're going to, we're going to make, we're going to make you stay like you're not gonna refuse it and so um it's kind of like that kind of pressure that kind of worries me of what

it would look like so dad's okay he certainly understands the direction you want to go but grandmother's she's rattling the saber a little bit right and i think it has something to do with um i am graduating college debt free from a Christian university, which is pretty unheard of or rare, but they paid for about a third to a half of my education. I paid for the other half, and so maybe it has something to do with that, but I'm not sure. Well, see, that's dangerous to be assuming things like that, especially with your parents and your grandmother. The question is, do you know what you want to do long-term and why? Yes or no? Yeah, I really love doing sales, and I've been able to do some sales inside of the company, and I would love to do that long-term, but I would not be able to afford the life that I want to have by staying with the company.

Well, so here's the deal. You have to decide what life do you want to live, and you're going to have to be okay disappointing some people on this journey. And that doesn't mean you're a jerk. It doesn't mean you're a twerp. It just means I want to go this direction. This is why I want to go this direction. I understand that you want me here, but I don't want to be a part of the family business.

And you tell them as clearly as you can why, but you don't justify it. And you're respectful, and you go lead the life you want to live. Because I'm going to tell you something. If you don't do what you want to do and you do what they want to do, this is a recipe for a lot of bitterness. Right. What's your degree for a lot of bitterness. Right. What's your degree in? Marketing. Okay.

And you want to go into sales and marketing. Correct. But your grandmother said that she's going to give you so much money that you can't refuse it. But on the other hand, you said there wasn't enough money working for the family business. I'm confused. Yeah, I am too. I know what they would be, or I guess I'm just assuming that I would know what they would be offering me, and we would have that conversation once I get closer to graduating.

I graduate in December. Okay, so what do you think you can make going to work for someone else? Starting off, I think their salary would be competitive with what I could make around like $70. So you think you can make $70 working somewhere else? Correct. And I think that they could offer me that. I just don't think there's room for growth here. Why?

Because it's a small business. So you're in sales. Go make it a large business. I think there's something deep. I thought you were a sales stud. Yeah, I mean, that would be my salary. I don't think you want to work there, Christian. I don't think you want to work there.

And I think this is a logical excuse that you're making to validate why you don't want to work for them. But I think there's something deeper. Am I right? Yeah, I think that's my main job. You don't like the control, do you? Yeah, I work in the same office as my dad. So I think that's what you have to acknowledge.

You know, this isn't got anything to do with the job or the opportunity. It's got to do with the family dynamic that you don't want to long-term engage in. You want to go be your own guy. Yeah. And that doesn't, that doesn't make you bad. It doesn't even make them bad. Yeah. Okay.

I've got family members that I love that don't work here. I've got family members that I love that don't work here. I've got family members that I love that do work here. And I love both of them. But that's the family dynamic. That's not the job. Yeah. Yeah. I think it's always been a struggle with having them have a say in what I'm doing and, like, my career, my life decisions.

And so I think a branch off from that is kind of what I'm looking for. Yeah, I think you're going to, you don't think you're going to feel good about yourself being continued. You think your dad's going to use his dad voice when he's at work? Yeah. I mean, no, it's pretty separate as far as that. It's more so my grandma, like I said. I can tell.

Yeah. Yeah. The Iron Ma maiden back there yes i respect her beyond belief she's the only uh first she's given me all my christian values no one else in my family's christian and so i think that's a that's another part of it um navigating that yeah but christian let me tell you something let me tell you something and i'm speaking from my own experience and my own family dynamic. You will eventually disrespect her if you stay in the situation and she runs over you and all this tension that's underneath the surface.

I'm just telling you, you will. You can respect what she has done to get here and not respect how she would handle you, and those are two different things. They're not mutually exclusive. I think the respect stays intact, Dave, if he decides to have a boundary christian you've already decided we're not to work there quit calling it that the job is bad just say what it is just go you know i'm just not comfortable i think i need to go make my own way i'm going to feel better about me and that's the truth it's not that the job is limited because you're going

into sales just go sell more if you want to make more go sell more i mean that's you know you know the job's not limited it's you're limited but you what you don't want to do is you don't be in office next to your dad you chuckled after you said it you don't want to deal with your grandmother's overbearing personality you said it three times in the conversation in different ways and so and that's okay you can still love them not saying they're horrible people you just don't want to work for them or with them and so go do something else yeah you need to do that for you and just for your own dignity and um that's the thing ken one of the things we've discovered at ramsey and we've discovered

as we worked with small businesses all across amer America and Entree leadership is a high percentage of small businesses are family businesses, by the way, privately held. And they usually have multiple family members working in them. It's not unusual at all. And they're only the family business portion of the business is only as functional as the family is. That's right. If the family's cray-cray at home, they're going to be cray-cray at work. I mean, it's pretty simple, you guys. And if they got control issues at home and, you know, overbearing and controlling and overreaching, then they're going to be that way at work. And I would say, Christian, go forge your own path, but don't act like it's never, because you may see the dynamics change where you could come back and be a part of the family business down the road when some of those

dynamics change. Who knows? A different version of you, a different version of them evolves. That's possible because you didn't say anything negative about their character. No. So that's good. You're in good shape there. Yeah, I think for now, I think you've already made your decision. Just be kind about it and gentle and vague. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm Ken Coleman, joined by Dave Ramsey in the studio. We're here for you this hour. So, Dave, recent headlines say that it might take three months to land a new job in this new wave of layoffs.

But I believe that you can beat that. I don't think that data is right. I think that you can land a better job a lot quicker given the demand that there is in the marketplace, but you've got to know what to do and how to do it, and a lot of it, Dave, comes down to one thing, and as I've taken calls on the Ken Coleman Show here, on the Ramsey Show for years, it comes down to confidence.

How do you get confidence to step out, to make a pivot, to not let a layoff throw you off, especially while you're in the baby steps? And the answer to that is extreme clarity, to know who you are, to know what you want to do, where you can do it, so that you have the confidence to never let the economy, inflation, anything coming your way, throw you off. And so we're going to talk through that formula at my new event called career breakthrough and our first one launches in just less than a month here just a few weeks away april 20th in kansas city missouri and you've been we're going to be speaking but i'm also taking questions live from the crowd and you've been at building wealth when we john deloney and i take questions live from the crowd something special happens

when people in a room like that it's like freaking group therapy i mean you you read their mail and everybody else in the room needed to hear what you said to that guy you know what you said to that girl you encouraged her uh you said okay you you know you you don't believe in yourself as much as everybody else in the room believes in you i've watched you do that and all of a sudden their body language changes they they swell up with like i can do this they start to believe or they're they're being just cray cray and you just call them out go hey hey hey don't do that right you know because you're a truth teller man i mean it's fun to watch you do this with these guys and unfold it so if if you really need to know exactly what your next steps are ken can tell you and you need to be at one of these events whether you think you're losing your job whether you've already quit your job whether you uh just hate

your job whatever you want to increase your income you want to you want to go do something you love and you hate what you're doing now all of these things kansas city april 20th just a couple of weeks from now and then chicago may 16th atlanta uh may 18th in Dallas, Texas, May 23rd. It's only $50. You paid that for a pizza. So get your- Today's inflation, you did. Ramseysolutions.com slash events.

Get this done. Because here's what you need sometimes. Sometimes you need someone to say out loud what way down inside you already know is true. You really, you're kind of like me, you don't really say anything that people don't already know. No, not at all. No, it's exactly right. All we do is uncover it, and they're looking for permission.

All we do is say what you were already thinking, and we've gotten really good at it. Why is there a fear, Dave, from people who are, they're trying to get out of debt, they're in the baby steps, and they hear that you can make more money if you get a better job. They hear that the side job economy is great. They hear that freelancing is there, but it feels kind of scary

to step into something else because they're in that gazelle intensity. What's the reason behind that fear? Because that's what we confront a lot. Whether you're doing the baby steps or not, I think it's just human nature. We all have a negative, a black cloud, a black dog, Churchill called it, that comes over you. It's the same one that says, okay, I'm going to get laid off. Automatically, what do people think? My next job, I'm going to make less.

Yeah. Instead of like, oh, God, I'm finally free from these people. I can go make more. Yeah. less. Instead of like, oh God, I'm finally free from these people. I can go make more. Because the number of times you go from 60 to 80,000 a year or from 80 to 120 in a new job is not, it's not unusual at all. That's right. Because a lot of times you're more valuable than they've been able to, or were willing to pay you at the other place. And you just hadn't tested the waters in the marketplace, you go, dang. That's exactly right.

And that's what we're covering at this event, by the way. We're going to give you the courage, based on confidence, to walk forward and get it. Go get it. This is a great economy to make money right now, but we understand there's fear and doubt. So, ramsaysolutions.com slash events. You can get the tickets there.

I always think about the old motivational guys back in the day you know they would say things like if you if money wasn't an issue if you had all the money you needed right and no one would tell you no what would you do oh the answer comes quick yeah everybody always has a quick answer when you remove the other one the other one old motivational thing i remember this clearly a guy said this he was talking about doing sales sales calls, but it also involves, you know what a sales call is? It's called an interview when you're looking for a job. Right. You're trying to make a sale.

Yeah. Only you're the dadgum product, right? But he said, you know, he paints this whole thing out about a sales guy going to fly into New York City to make the sale. And when he lands, his wife calls and says, we just won. I just got a letter that we got an inheritance of $2 million. And he goes, I don't even have to go make the sale, but I'm already up here, I might as well go. Right.

So he kind of swaggers in, acts like he doesn't care because he doesn't, talks to them clearly, was kind to them, but talked to them about the benefits of the product, but was very overly very overly confident not arrogant but just didn't have to make the sale right smelled different you know yes starving sales people smell bad and so they got a smell on them you got a stink on you man you know it's right you smell like a loser that's true loser it's right true you got the smell on you. And so he walks in there, makes the sale, goes back to the hotel room. His wife calls and says, God, they made a huge mistake. It was the next door neighbor that got the letter, not us. That is fantastic. What's the difference? The only difference is your mindset. Everything. It was a complete

mindset. Between the years. The sale was still the sale. The client was still the client. It's true. The interview was still the interview. The job hire was still the sale the client was still the client it's true the interview was still the interview the job hire was still the job hire the only difference was he didn't think he had to do it and so he walked in there with complete different vocal cord tenseness yes his voice was deeper hot hot pitch when you get scared you get hot pitched you know i know that's what i said you know yeah but i mean when you get scared everybody does your vocal cord your octaves go up and your your body language changes, and you're weird. And fear does weird. When you're desperate, people can smell it.

Oh, for sure. And they don't want to hire you. No, not at all. That's exactly right. So it really is about confidence. And you get confidence from one place, folks, extreme clarity. We see people catch this in the baby steps. When they see the clear path, they go, oh, I can get out of debt. And they become confident and they walk it out. But there's a clear path to go get in a job,

right? That's right. Walk them through it. Absolutely. Well, so here's the deal. You got to know what you want and you got to know if you can actually do it. So the stress for people is, I think I want this, but I don't know if I can actually pull it off. So what we start with is marrying those two things. We call it getting clear. This is what I want to do. Do I have what it takes to do it? In other words, do I have the talent where I can go get the skill and experience? That changes the mindset. Now it's possible. And so then we go next, we go, all right, what is it I have to do to get qualified from an experience and skill set? And then we go, who are, what is it I have to do to get qualified from an experience

and skill set? And then we go, who are the people I need to know? Connections are everything that bring opportunities to us. So when you understand that, your entire physiology changes like you were saying in that story. I now know what I want to do. I know where I want to do it. And I know how to get there.

That takes a person from being timid and doubtful to clear, bold, and courageous. And that's how you get what you want. That's how you get out of debt. That's how you launch and start a business and grow it. That's how you parent. That's how you win in your relationship. It comes down to, do I know who I want to be and why and how to get there? Even kids and dogs can smell fear. Oh, for sure. Yeah. They know it. Yeah.

They know it. We need more confident, bold people. They know they got you muffled. But it comes from having a plan, knowing who you are, being comfortable on your own skin. And that guy, you know what? He had a, I don't care. Right. He had a confidence.

I don't have to get this. No. I don't have to get this. It's all, don't sweat't have to get this it's all it's all don't sweat the small stuff and it's all yes small stuff it is all right bradley's with us in cincinnati hey bradley what's up hey thanks for taking my call appreciate it sure how can we help so um went through uh financial peace university last year late last year got all that done, and we're working our budget. And unfortunately, my father has dementia, and so does her mother.

And so we're trying to do the best we can with that right now. My wife has had to go to part-time because she felt she needed to do that. How can we help right quick before I run out of time? So anyway, we... What's your question? Where she's putting 15% into for her retirement, and she's late to the game, so I helped her get there. But what I noticed through some calculations I ran on her paycheck the other day

was that it's almost that she's about 22%. Okay. You need to be at 15% or less. If you need to stop temporarily while you guys fight through some of these bad times you're going through, that's okay. But long-term, 15% of your household income going into somebody's retirement. Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today. Thank you for joining us, America. Join us anytime you'd like in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions. We do the show from one to

four central time every day, five days a week, and we're on the glass in the lobby. Dr. John Deloney does his show on the glass in the lobby, and the Ken Coleman show is done on the glass in the lobby. So there's stuff going on all day long around here, but from one to four we're here live uh free homemade chocolate chip cookies cooked daily and uh coffee and other goodies in the uh bakery the uh baker street bakery over here great pastries as well yes good stuff coming it's all all free to our guests and a great lobby experience where you get to see some of the history of ramsey and all those kinds of things and so uh and then folks sit around and watch the show. There's usually 50 to 200 sitting out here, something like that.

And the debt-free stage is here. And on the debt-free stage are Aaron and Jill. Hi, Aaron. How are you guys? Good. How are you? Welcome. Where do you live?

Council Bluffs, Iowa. Fun. Welcome to Nashville. How much debt have you paid off? A little over $253,000. Love it. And how long did this take? A little over 253 000 love it and uh how long did this take a little over seven years okay and your range of income during that time when we first started it was right around 80 000

now it's around 150 okay cool and what kind of debt was the 253 that was our home student loans vehicles credit cards completely debt-free house and everything. Look at it, weird people. How old are you two weird people? I'm 40. 37. And you have a paid-for house. Yes.

That's worth how much? Right now, roughly $275,000. Cool. How much have you got in retirement? So I have a pension through my work. So that's, I can actually retire in about four and a half years um then everything else on the side roughly a little over probably 150 000 okay cool so you're about a half million net worth give or take way to go you're on your way to being a millionaire yes

very good good for you guys well done well done so tell us your story what happened here so in 2013 um she gave birth to our daughter our middle child and then she became a stay-at-home mom and after she became a stay-at-home mom her student loans kicked in which is 500 bucks a month so we realized at that point in time how broke we were and we couldn't even buy groceries kind of buy the gas we were a negative a,000 a month just in our bills. And that doesn't even count groceries, food, nothing like that. So I just started working crazy hours and I picked up every moonlighting position I can get. I'm a police officer. So I picked up every security job out there over time, you name it. And I was never home. And so she was pretty much a single parent raising our kids and i just worked non-stop

and about i did that for about two years and i was like i just can't keep up with this pace it's killing us and so i got introduced to you through uh actually one of our lieutenants that's recently retired a millionaire on our department he's been following you for years so he introduced me to you and i just we jumped all in okay so you you were you were working your tail off but you're spinning your wheels i was spinning had no plans no no rhyme or reason or nothing it was just a revolving door yes wow wow so jill you're at home with all these little kids how scared were you uh it was intense yeah there was a lot of kids and then worrying about him on the streets. Yeah, I do want to say thank you for how you serve. Thank you. I appreciate it.

Community, you put your life on the line and that's impressive stuff and it should be called out. But I want to ask you, so you hear about Dave and you've been working crazy hours. As you're at this point you're going I can't do this anymore then you find out I still got to work gazelle and tit so I'm just curious what was the transition after you start to hear about the baby steps and you're fraying at both ends because of all the hours what'd you do next so we had a we knew a why at that point and before I there was no light at the end of the tunnel it's just I'm just paying the bills and this is never going to end we have no we have no way out at this point and once I stumbled

upon Dave Ramsey now we had a purpose we we had an out and people standing on this stage a lot a lot of days working you know 17 20 hour days that's helped me got through the process and uh so we give all the credit and thanks in the world to you dave well i'll get to you you did it you're dadgum heroes i just showed you how so you kept sitting over here warm and dry you're out there in the rain right yes so i kept that up for we rich, we had all our consumer debt was about $77,000, $78,000. And so we got that paid off in 19 and a half months because we went crazy. I paid my truck off, sold that, went and got a beater car that I drove for about three years until it blew up on me on the interstate. And we got everything paid off except our house in about 19 and a half months, which allowed me to take a new position on an apartment department,

being an academy instructor, which was Monday through Friday, weekends off. So I got my family back. We saved our marriage. Your family got you back? Yes. Wow. And then you could just go steady and chip away at the house. Chip away.

And it was totally worth it. Rather than going different. Yeah. So we probably would have got our house paid off if I kept that same pace up for probably a little under 36 months. So it actually prolonged it, taking this new position. So what? Yeah.

That's what you're supposed to do at baby step three, four. Baby step four, five, six, you're supposed to be intentional, not intense. Yes. And that's what you did. to do at baby step three four maybe step four five six you're supposed to be intentional not intense yes and that's what you did you were intentional well done i mean in seven years you're not 40 and your dadgum house is paid off shut up okay this is all right way to go man yeah way to go what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is don't talk about it be about it we we deal with a lot of our friends and we started this plan at the same time um we actually went through with it we dedicated our lives and a part of that's because we had to we didn't have a choice um sacrifice big time sacrifice yeah i i mean my

wife was a stay-at-home mom for years and um she was a single parent pretty much because i was always at work and um it it's just working together to get this done yeah be about it don't even i don't even know the whole process is was a blur you know you're going through it and it's you have all the kids at home and you're just you're trying to chip away at the same thing and it feels it feels a lot yeah it was a lot for was it worth it um i think now yes because um we are able to travel with the kids now which is what we really wanted to do and give them experiences yeah absolutely so i would say now yes if you're if you ask me during the process i would say no yeah because you're hanging on by

you had 19 months of of doing this with great intensity of hell yeah yeah and then after that you had another five years of just intentional plotting and seven years later your house paid off and everything correct yeah that's yeah yeah so the hardest part was the 19 yeah i would yeah absolutely yeah because he was gone all the time yeah working all sorts of shifts so that's what sharon ramsey would tell you she said she was a single mom for a period of time there yeah because she was a she's a work widow because we didn't have a choice yep that's exactly us we didn't we didn't have a choice so you look at me now yeah exactly it worked out darling it did yeah that's what yeah we laugh about that all the time we drove through an old

neighborhood that we used to live in last night on the way home uh from a thing we've been on and we're like yeah um have these houses gone down or have we gotten snobby. Right, right. During this process, I actually took your financial master coaching training. Yeah. Because we actually started telling our friends about this process or listening to them, kind of their concerns. And we showed them what we did. So we kind of stumbled upon becoming coaches ourselves. And so we've been doing this for about two years, coaching people. And so far to this date, we've helped pay off, including our own debt, over a million dollars with ours.

Way to go, you guys. Alright, it's Aaron, Jill, Cale, Kaden, Kinley, and Brooks from Council Bluffs, Iowa. House and everything $253,000 paid off in seven years. Count it down. Let's hear a debt-free scream.

In three, two, one. We're debt-free scream in three two one we're debt-free yeah that's great man that's some hard work they're going on yes got it done get her done be about it don't talk about it this is the Ramsey show Ken Coleman Ramsey personality is my co-host today Randy is with us in Pensacola hi Randy welcome to the Ramsey show hello Dave how are you doing today better than I deserve what's up so am I hey so um today i just paid off my house whoa there you go thank you sir thank you very much and it's all it's all thanks to you um and the teachings that you've uh that you provided throughout the years uh yeah i also turned 63 today too so it was a it

was a birthday gift well happy birthday what's the house worth randy uh sitting right now at 4 30 excellent how much you got in retirement uh about 350 okay cool you got other assets well yeah of course i've got you know i got three cars and and whatnot so i'm getting close yeah you're almost to that millionaire way to go man i'm i'm almost there, man. Thank you very much. And it's all thanks to you. I didn't do it. You did it.

You're the hero, man. Way to go. Hey, so the question that I have today is, mistakenly, I opened up a Roth about six months ago and started putting and adjusted my 401k investments to bring it down to the match and then putting everything else into the Roth. Then I found out that I guess I need to keep the money in the Roth for five years or so. I'm not sure if that's true or not, but I'm trying to figure out at what point, if at all,

do I start pulling out of the 401k and moving to a Roth or some other avenue. That makes sense. Okay. Number one, you're still working and you're still contributing, and now you're contributing to a Roth 401k with a match. Is that correct? I'm doing a Roth in addition to a 401k. Okay.

Your 401k does not offer a Roth option. Correct, correct. So I've got a Roth, but I've got it opened up through a different broker. Are you sure your 401k won't allow you to do Roth? Most of them do now. Well, yes, it does. Okay, so there's two separate issues. There's the issue of what you put in from this point forward,

and there's the issue of what's already in there. What's already in there is $350,000 in traditional, right? Correct. Okay, and then from this point forward, I would do everything as Roth. You have a mandatory drawdown called the required minimum distribution that now doesn't hit until you're 73, and you can pull that from traditional. You're going to have to start pulling it out at 73 anyway, even if you don't want to on the traditional. You do not have a mandatory required minimum distribution, any mandatory withdrawals on Roth portions. So I'm going to

do the Roth and let the Roth just grow and grow and grow and grow and grow tax-free. I would draw down for living at retirement on the traditional first before I draw down on the Roth. Okay. Now, from this point forward, here's what's going to happen. You do your individual Roth IRAs. You make your 401k a 401k

roth for future contributions not the past ones you follow me okay yes sir now they the matching portion by regulation by law has to be in traditional so the part that they put in is going to continue to be traditional also so you're going to have the 350 that's traditional and stays there, plus the matching portion from this point forward is going to be traditional. Then you're going to have whatever you put into your Roth individual and whatever you put into your 401K that's going to be Roth from this point forward. So you've got a lot of different things going on here. And then when you reach the point that you actually are going to need to use some of the money,

you would use some of the $350,000 or whatever it has grown to. If it's invested in good growth stock mutual funds in seven years, when you're 70, it should be $700,000. Yes, sir, and I'm looking forward to that. As a matter of fact, I have another appointment with a financial planner uh here next week okay well make sure you're checking with one of our smart investor pros okay absolutely yes sir yeah and get get just sit down with someone with the heart of a teacher they can explain why i'm saying this and then once you see that you're going to go oh i get it i see what dave's doing now but the tax-free growth of the roth uh you're going to put that off indefinitely you may never use it it may just be an inheritance to someone and when it is it's a tax-free inheritance to

someone that's why i want you to keep your hands off of it because it's very likely that the seven the 300 growing to 700 um and you know your budget, you're probably going to live on that money before you ever get into the other money. And you may very well never get into that other money. It may grow and be left as a tax-free inheritance. Where if you leave a traditional as an IRA, as an inherited IRA, it becomes taxable not as an inheritance tax, but as your income tax, as your heirs pull it out. A lot going on there. But way to go, Randy.

Yeah. Pays his house off, and it's his birthday. It's quite a twofer there. That's a good day. Mikael is with us in Knoxville. Hey, Mikael, welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Thanks for having me.

Sure. What's up? So, yeah, my wife and I, I Dave we just started doing the baby steps and you know we're looking over our budget and I'm just wondering I'm kind of convicted about like ties like our ties is our third biggest bill if you will. I'm just wondering do we palm that to you know get out of debt and then pick it up later or just you know struggle with how to deal with that you don't have many bills uh yeah i guess i mean that's where you got a lot of little bitty ones uh well i have my i have rent and then car uh student loans uh okay well you used some key

words that i'm going to make sure i understood what you meant but i think i know because i think it's tribal speak and i know what you're talking about i'm convicted and you use the word tithe. This is Christian lingo. Okay, agreed? Yes, sir. Okay. So evangelical Christians like you and me believe and teach that the Bible says to give a tenth of our income to our local church, all right, as a beginning point in our generosity. And in Proverbs it says multiple times that the tithe is first fruits, which

Proverbs is written to an agrarian economy. First fruits literally means the first fruit that you pick out of the orchard, the first lambs that are born to the flock every year, the first one-tenth is holy and set aside unto the Lord. And so your giving comes off the top, in other words, before you do anything, 10%. Now, having said all of that, that's exactly what I do, and I have done for 40 years that I've been walking with God. I absolutely have never done it because, A, I thought God owed me something if I did. In other words, I was giving so that he had to give something back to me. That's not how this works.

And I have never given ever because I thought it was like a law and I was keeping the law. I gave because I love God. He's been really good to me. And my loving Heavenly Father says, Son, the best way to live your life is to be generous. And here's your starting point. And generous people have better lives than selfish people. And here's your starting point.

And I give from that spirit, not from a spirit of I'm trying to keep somebody's rules. Okay? Yes, sir. So convicted, I mean that I get what you mean your heart is being tugged you've been taught that giving matters and you want to stick to what you've been taught that's what you're saying

when you say convicted but convicted is what you do with a crime so I'm probably not going to go there I'm probably just going say, as an act of love and as an act of believing that my Heavenly Father who teaches me to give is going to cause me to have a better life if I'm a generous person, I'm going to give out of that. That's also why I over-tip. Yes, sir. You do want to wait on my table. Yes, sir. And remember, you were taught this, so you understand. We don't want to leave a bunch Yes, sir. yeah you're gonna be okay but here's the weird thing generous people are much more attractive

they tend to get more raises they tend to get more promotions because who wants to promote a selfish jerk oh my gosh this is the Ramsey Show. Dave here. You can find all of our shows with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone. It's the only place to listen to the entire back catalog of episodes. Download the Ramsey Network app in your favorite app store today.