The Ramsey Show - App - Your Life Is a Film Strip, Not a Snapshot (Hour 3)

Episode Date: July 6, 2020

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. My co-host on the air today, Chris Hogan, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author.

We are here to help you with your life and your money open phones at 888-825-5225 christopher is with us in texas hey christopher how are you um blessed and highly favored thank you mr ramsey mr hogan for it's an honor to speak with y'all sure what's up? Let's talk about my life really quick. How about that? Okay. My wife and I, we've come to the conclusion that we're in a position, we're trying to, we have to go IVF treatment to have a child. We've been trying for many years and many miscarriages.

So I'm kind of in a position where the best person to call is Mr. Ramsey. So I'm trying to see where I'm at. Wow, that's a tough time for you. I'm sorry. So have you gone through the different pricing models and learned all the different things yet? Yes, sir. All the stages is

going to be adding up to about eighty thousand dollars no it's not for the saboteur no it's not there's there's procedures that should go prior to that no it's not eighty thousand dollars ballparkish no not even close no okay okay good not even close so that. Okay. Okay, good. Not even close. So that's what I meant. You've got to go shopping. Right. Okay. Because there's a spectrum from all the way from $80,000 to probably one round for $8,000. Okay. Good deal.

And so, you know, because the $80,000 for most people would be prohibitive. So what's your household income? Take-home is $95,000 total. Okay. And you have any money? We have about $20,000 saved and about $10,000 on our 401k. Good. Okay.

All right. What other debt do you have, Christopher? We have a home mortgage for $330,000. We have a credit card bill for $20,000, not a loan for $20,000, and a student loan bill for $30,000. How old are you? Just turned 30. Okay.

All right. Well, here's what I would do if I woke up in your shoes, and that's the only way I know how to answer questions, okay? Perfect. You're going to have to find some different pricing models than $80,000 because that's not within your range. Okay. You have $20,000, but you have $20,000 and $30,000 and $40,000 of debt, right? Yes, sir.

What was it, $20,000 on credit card, $20,000 on the car loan, then $30,000 in student loan? Okay. Roger, yes, sir. And so you're $50,000 from being out of debt if we use your $20,000 towards debt. If we ignored that and said, okay, we've got $20,000, what kind of IVF program can we get in for that? And you can do a lot for that but

you're gonna it sounds like you're gonna be using a different doctor than the one you shopped with initially okay um okay it sounds kind of crass to say i'm gonna shop around on something like this but it's just like an adoption you need to learn what the different methodologies are otherwise you'll pay 3x what is required for you to do an adoption and so you just you know you need to learn what the different methodologies are and it's a very important thing that you're asking when someone asks me how do we save up for an adoption or how do we save up for ivf it's just because the most glorious thing in my life other than my walk with jesus has been having kids. There it is. Yes.

And so I empathize and sympathize with you. There's not anything you can call me about that I could tell you that would be more important that you could spend money on. So I'm right there with you, but I don't want you, A, I'm not going to tell you to go into debt to do it. Number two, I'm going to tell you to shop and get a best price. Let's allocate that $20,000 to that, and then let's lean in really, really hard with your budget and start cleaning up this other debt with your income.

Because, Christopher, if you guys were to have a baby, does your wife want to be at home with the baby, or is she going to work? Home, for sure, for a couple months, and then go back to work. Go back to work. Okay. All right. Well, like Dave said, shop around, buddy.

I know you're at that point. If you've dealt with miscarriages, which are gut-wrenching, you're willing to do whatever to try to solve it. And I'm going to tell you something. Having a baby is a blessing, but the pain of those other miscarriages, that's still real.

You guys may need to go talk to a counselor or therapist about it, but don't go blindly into the night trying to do whatever just to fix it, because I've unfortunately talked to friends that have gone through rounds of IVF that did not work, and so you need to prepare your mind as well as your heart, and you guys working together. And you pay cash because you don't want to pay payments on something that doesn't work. That doubles the regret and the grief, and you just don't want to pay payments on something that doesn't work. That doubles the regret and the grief. And you just don't want to do that.

So it's a highly emotional thing, and the only way to work through it is, and to keep from making a mistake because it's highly emotional, is just to take lots of time, learn, talk to five different doctors, five different payment methodologies. And there are ones where if you pay a certain amount they'll keep going until you until you get a pregnancy there are others that are just every time you try once it's so much and so it's like group you know a bulk discounts and that kind of thing it's all in there and i've i've seen i don't know 25 different plans over

the years that people brought into me as a financial coach and said, how can we do this? And that's why I actually do know the pricing. It's not from personal experience. It's just from watching all of this. So we're right there with you. We want you to take your existing income while you're doing all this stuff. Take that $20K that you got cash and set that aside for this and for emergencies or whatever, and then let's just tear into this or take

$19,000 or whatever and leave $1,000 and then start working your baby steps. Pretend like that other money wasn't there. Work your way through these credit cards and work your way through. You might want to sell that stupid car. Dave, you know what's funny? You mentioned that. A couple that I coached did a payment plan through the doctor, and it didn't work to the tune of almost 20 grand, and this was years ago.

And she broke down crying, saying every time that payment came in, it was a reminder of what didn't happen. And so I'm with you. Do not finance this in any way. Sell what you have to. Take on second job if you have to but just pay cash yeah yeah you just don't want to you don't want to have that no hey man we're right there with you though good good luck with this i hope it all works out open phones at 888-825-5225

you know anything that's highly emotional and so much of so many of the big events in our lives, when we're talking about personal finance, are highly emotional. A business, buying a home, having kids, adoption, IVF. Even in the conclusion of life where you're buying a funeral, when you're in a highly emotional state, you can overspend. So, listen, one of the things a lot of people have a lot of questions about is a will as an example. What kind of power of attorney do you need?

Do you have everything laid out in terms of your final instructions? Hey, you want to take a quiz on how to get your estate in order? Text the word QUIZ to 33789. It's free. And QUIZ to 33789. folks i love telling you about well-made well-thought-out products today i'm talking about grip six belts i don't know about you but I'm not a fan of traditional belts. They never fit right, and they're uncomfortable. Grip6 belts are unique. Owner BJ designed a truly modern, minimalist belt made of high-quality materials with no holes, no flap, and no bulk.

And the buckles come in really cool designs and are interchangeable. I personally own these belts in different styles. And talk about affordability, Grip 6 belts come with a lifetime guarantee. And that means if you no longer like or fit the style of your belt, you can replace them for free. Plus, I like the way these guys do business. Grip 6 is determined to help build and modernize American manufacturing. To learn more and get this month's Dave Ramsey special, visit Grip6.com. That's Grip6.com. Chris Hogan Ramsey personality is my co-host today here on the air on the Dave Ramsey show

open phones at 888-825-5225. Rachel is with us in Texas. Hi, Rachel. Welcome to the show. Hi, Dave and Chris. It's really great to be talking to you. You too. What's up? Well, so I'm single.

I'm in the military and will be in for the next 10 years. And I'll probably be moving, like you probably know, pretty frequently during that time. I am debt-free. I have a fully funded emergency fund, and I'm already saving 15% to my retirement. Wow. I was doing the math, and I'm going to have over $20,000 a year to give, have fun, and build wealth. My question is, what do I do about the build wealth part because i've heard you say many times like don't buy rental properties because then you'll end up being a long-distance landlord with the situation i am with the military right so how what do i do

wow you've got some you've got a great opportunity, Rachel. So you go in 10 more years. How many years in the military will that give you all total? It'll be about 10. I'm trained to be a pilot, so they make us sign a long contract. Okay, gotcha. And so as you look at this, you start to realize you've got options ahead of you. I would tell you, you know, you don't have debt.

You've got an emergency fund. You know, you've got an opportunity to do giving right here and right now. But as far as wealth building, you know, you've got your TSP, the Thrift Savings Plan, which is the military's version of the 401k. But I'm going to tell you something else. You also have options of saving using gross stock mutual funds outside of retirement. And so that comes with no limits. You can put as much in as you want. And so that's something I would talk to a smart investor pro about, because for you

long term, you're eventually going to want to buy a home. And so that would be a great place to put some money. Absolutely. Thanks for your service, Rachel. Appreciate you. And congratulations on your pilot's career. That's going to be a great career inside the military and outside. You've done a really good job. You've obviously laid our stuff out, line item by line item.

Thanks for that. Very well done. And so for wealth building beyond that, Chris is exactly right. I would just get with a SmartVestor Pro and just start some mutual funds and just let them build up. And, you know, one of your first goals in that might be to have enough to pay cash for a house at the end of your military career. Maybe one of your other goals would be to, beyond that, I want to pay cash when I do settle in somewhere for some real estate at that 10-year mark. But you can definitely have a lot of money piled up by then, you've done a and still will have had a great life traveling and enjoying things and of course being generous like chris was suggesting very very good great job yes seth is with us in virginia hi seth how are you hi gentlemen good afternoon

hey what's up so a relatively new listener um so I had a question and wanted some advice if you could help me in regards to my wife's student loans. Her student loans are roughly about $190,000. Good Lord. And it's an income-based repayment plan. Well, that's what you've got it on. What is she, a doctor or a lawyer? She's actually, she has her master's in social work. For $200,000.

Yeah, yeah. And what does she make a year? Well, that's the thing. She's been a stay-at-home mom for the last seven years with our kids. And she's slowly kind of getting back into work and my plan has always been to you know allow her to start working and basically take all the income that she would make from whatever job she has and to put that towards the loan what is your household what do you do you make? I make about $175

a year. No, I would not do that. I would just pay the loan. I'd just pay the loan off. You make $175,000 a year. Let's get this mess cleaned up. This is your wife. For better, for worse, for richer, for poorer,

in sickness and in health. Unto thee all my worldly goods I pledge, says in the old wedding vows in the Book of Common Prayer. They don't say that anymore, but that was the old days. And so that's what you did. It's not her loan now. I know it's got her name on it, and technically it is her loan. But I'm saying relationally and everything else, you make $175,000 a year. This is hanging around your old neck.

And income-based repayment is just going to drag it out for 40 freaking years. Knock it in the head. Be done with it in about two years. $100,000 a year for two years of cleanliness mess up. Yeah, goodness. Great. I mean, you know what, Dave? I get riled up when I hear that because...

But still, if she hadn't married him, she'd be screwed. Oh, yeah. She's working two jobs trying to make payments. And it's just, you know, people have sold the bill of goods that you've got to go to some fancy school. You've got to go to this high-priced university if you're going to make anything of yourselves. And again, people hear me. We did the largest study of millionaires that's ever been done. Talked to over 10,000 of them. Okay, over 10,000. And it was unbelievable because 62% of them went to public state universities. These are people that are millionaires. 8%

went to community college. So you do not have to go to a $100,000 a year private school in order to be able to have and build wealth. Gosh. Well, the good news is that, Seth, you guys are in a position to clean this up. And so our recommendation would be to clean it up very, very quickly. Now, then the sidebar is for everyone listening. If you're going to get a degree in something before you spend money to get a degree before you spend a dollar to get a degree find out what that field of study pays yes and if you're going to be a forty thousand dollar a year social worker don't go two hundred thousand dollars in debt to get that degree because that's mathematically unpalatable it may in other words it'll throw

up in the back of your mouth when you start talking about that kind of number. And so it's just the return. It doesn't work. And social work is a noble, good profession, and it is a good thing to help families and hold them together and that kind of thing, but not when yours is falling apart. And so good news is, in Seth's case, that they can clean it up very very quickly and he's a new listener and he's trying to guide his way through this but you've got this great income dude if i'm

you i'm just going to punch this thing in the nose and knock it out the rest of you get anthony o'neill's book debt-free degree and and figure out a way to go to school and study something that the income based on what you study makes sense based on what you spent to get the degree. So don't become a professional and then spend your whole professional life paying off your degree. No, you're right, Dave. But you mentioned this. I mean, I'm thinking back.

If you've got somebody that was single and he's dating someone, can you imagine the shock if you've never talked about money together? And all of a sudden you find out they've got $200,000, $300,000 in student loan debt? Yeah. And, you know. Well, it's so normal now that people don't think anything about it. But, you know. And, again, he obviously has a wonderful career. Yes.

He's making a lot of money. So that probably came into the decision making. It would make sense that it does. And's all fair that's all fair but parents um and and for those of you that are raised by wolves or something listen up do not you know really think about what your return on investment is on education all All education is not bad, but all education is not worth the money. That's right. And some of it isn't worth the money because mathematically, it's not a matter, it's not a moral call. It's not a judgment call. It's not like, oh, what is too expensive? Let me tell you what too expensive is. Too expensive is when you pay out a gazillion dollars more than you're ever going to get back. That's too expensive.

That's right. Or then you'll get back as a result of your choice. Right. Then that's too expensive. You can't do it. So it's not a matter of, is $200,000 morally wrong? No, it's not. It's not at all.

But it doesn't make good, it's not logical to do that. Especially if you're paying cash for it, you wouldn't do it. No, you wouldn't. For a $40,000 a year job. Learn to count. We're always going to have a job. This is the Dave Ramsey Solutions on the Dead Free Stage, Stephanie is with us. Hi, Stephanie. How are you?

Good. How are you? You look better than I deserve. Welcome. Thank you for having me. I'm honored to have you. And where do you live? I'm from a suburb of Chicago in Indiana. Oh, very cool. And all the way to Nashville to do a debt-free screen. Yeah, of course. How much have you paid off?

$64,071. Good for you. How long did this take? 38 months. You kicked it. Way to go, girl. And your range of income during that time? I started out making $34,000 and ended with $44,000, and then I made like around $10,000 of side jobs on the side. You were focused. Yeah. I lived on nothing. I mean, nothing. Seriously. Because you paid off $20,000 a year for three years. Yeah. Average. And you're not making but $34,000 or $44,000.

Mm-hmm. Wow. I mean, beans and rice. Yeah. Way to go. What kind of debt was this? $3,000 was a car and the rest was student loans. Okay.

So what's your degree in? Art education. Good. Art teacher. Good for you. So that's what you do for a living. You're an art teacher. Good for you.

Way to go. So you got out of school and just decided to attack this. Tell us your story. What happened? I actually graduated in 2012, so I had been out of school for a while, but it wasn't like a certain event that caused me to start, but more like a mentality of being tired of having this weight of debt and wanting to do all of these things, but not being able to do them because I was feeling the weight of my debt and

not feeling that peace. So I knew about you from other people that I heard from and also any church that I'd gone to had financial peace. But I started listening to your podcast every day when I was prepping at school in the morning. And I heard debt-free screams that were very similar like me. And I was like, well, if they can do it and they have a similar income than me, then I can, of course, do this. And then I got started and once I first started paying off debt, then I was like, I totally believed that I could do it. And I just would do anything that I needed to do to pay off debt. Wow. Very cool. You were very focused. Yeah. I mean, what were some of the things that you sacrificed that were difficult for you?

So I, because I was a teacher, I didn't get paid overtime to do anything. But I would babysit every, before school, after school, on holidays, like on breaks. I lived, had like low income living condition or like the lowest I could pay by also babysitting for the person that I lived with and just renting out a room instead of like having my own apartment. So sacrificing any time that I had in doing all of those things, but just working as much as I could and putting it all towards that. Let me ask you, was it worth it? Oh, of course. Yes. Yeah. You've got this grin on your face and you just, you know, from all the hard work, because

sometimes it gets hard, right? And the mountains get tall. You've got a long three years. You really did, young lady. I'm proud of you. Thank you. Very impressive. Yes.

Very impressive. Wow. Good job. Okay, so you're the hero. You did it. You paid off $64,000 in 38 months, making $34,000 to $44,000. When people say, how'd you do that? What do you say the key to getting out of debt is? You can do it too, so what do you got to do? Yeah, I think the first thing is believing and having that mindset to just know that, okay, you can do this,

and then also, like you said, the sacrifices, knowing that it's a short-term sacrifice and that it's not going to be forever, knowing that I was only doing that for a short amount of time was really motivating for me. And also because I'm so visual, I was able to fill in charts and be able to see those visuals for me. And every time I was able to do that, that was really motivating. So I'd always crunch the numbers and see how much more I could pay towards debt and how much I could just fill in. So yeah, I would say having a short sacrifice mindset.

Stephanie, how long ago did you hear the debt-free screams on Dave's show? And you said, I want that to be me. How many years ago was that? Well, the whole time. I was listening the whole time. I would just hear the debt-free screams on Dave's show, and you said, I want that to be me. How many years ago was that? Well, the whole time. I was listening the whole time. I would just hear the debt-free screams. And, of course, when there was someone that was very similar to my income, I would kind of even get teared up sometimes because I would know that that could be me in the future. Hey, guess what?

It is you. Yes. Because you're here. Not only did you dream it, you dared to chase it down. It is you. Yes. Because you're here. Not only did you dream it, you dared to chase it down. It is you. And you're going to motivate all kinds of other young people out there. I'm proud of you, young lady. I really am. That's amazing. Pretty stinking incredible. Absolutely amazing. Well done. Well done. So who were your biggest cheerleaders? I had family friends that were like family to me back home,

and anyone in my small group at church. Anyone that I came across was really supportive. Okay. So who came with you on this trip? It was my roommate in college and her family. They're like a second family to me, and we came down to Nashville to celebrate. Awesome. That's fantastic.

Very good. Well, good cheerleaders. I noticed you had a cheering section over here, so I want to figure out who that was. Good. Way to go. I'm proud of you. We got a copy of Chris's book for you, Everyday Millionaires. That is the next chapter in your story.

You are on your way. You're free. You did it. I'm so proud of you. You're a hero. Well done. Stephanie in Chicago, $64,000 paid off in 38 months. Count it down.

Let's hear a debt-free scream. Three, two, one. I'm debt-free! Yeah! That's how it's done. Yes. The interesting thing is that it doesn't matter what your income, your age, your sex, your color, the number of kids you have, we've had someone like you do a Dad Free School.

Yeah. Because we've been doing them for decades, and they're all different and they're all special because that's her story. That's right. But there is someone, like she said, she'd find the ones that were like her making $34,000 a year, and it made her tear up because she said, I can do this. Yep. You've got to find stories in your life that go,

there's a guy like me, there's a guy like me there's a gal like me that went and did what it took and they won yeah and they came from the neighborhood like i came from or they i relate to them in this way or and they still went and they did it and that what that does it takes away your stinking excuses. It sure does, Dave. And I'm going to tell you something. We, you know, in doing this largest study of millionaires we've ever done, it busts down a lot of those myths.

And, you know, as my coach said, don't make excuses, son, make plays. And we've got to get rid of that victim mentality and grab a victor mentality and understand if we can believe and stephanie hit on that we've got to believe we can because we found that while the millionaires came from every possible background 96 of them when we surveyed them said that was all of them by the way yeah said that belief in the fact that you can do, that you can become wealthy, is essential. And when we interviewed non-millionaires and asked the same question, only 62% said that. Big drop-off.

Yeah. So while belief is not magical and it doesn't keep you from having to do the hard work. Right. It doesn't. It's not a magic potion. You know, it pretty much ensures you're not going to get there if you don't have it. If you don't believe it. That's right. It's a contributing factor. It really is. But you've got to put in the work.

Yeah. And, you know. If your belief causes you to take action, now we've got the magic. There you go. There you go. And I said that. I talk about it in the book. You've got to believe you

got to grow in your knowledge and you got to take the right actions that's the key that is the key it's absolutely how it's done and so that's why this um book and white paper that goes with it you got the white paper yeah i do i do it's not a white paper and we're not got like a cover with your face on it well dave it's a quick read it's not a quick read it's a nerd book it's got like a cover with your face on it. Well, Dave, it's a quick read. It's not a quick read. It's a nerd book. It's all the statistics from the stinking study. It is. If you have trouble sleeping. It's written NyQuil.

Yes. If you want to. NyQuil between two covers. The National Study of Millionaires. That's right. If you have trouble sleeping, just dive on in here. If you want the research paper, baby. It'll be like this.

They're nerding out. Yeah. Normal people be like this. They're nerding out. Yeah. Normal people will be like. They're gone. Better. It's there. It's there for you if you want it. You can grab it.

No alcohol required. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. It's only, what, nine bucks or something, right? Yeah. Yeah. It's under $10. Quick read.

Yeah. A lot of stats. Quick read. Lots. It's not a quick read. It's short. That's. What's what we call quick reads, because it's short.

It is short. But there's a lot. There really is. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. our scripture of the day proverbs 13 11 wealth gained hastily will dwindle but whoever gathers little by little will increase it jack wel said, leaders establish trust with candor, transparency, and credit. Giving other people the credit. Aaron is with us in Kentucky. Hi, Aaron.

How are you? I'm doing great. How about yourself? Better than I deserve. How can we help? Well, my question is, my wife and I, we have about $15,000 in debt and we're wanting to go through the Financial Peace University thing and hopefully get out of that really quickly. But then after that, I'm really interested in being able to invest and prepare for our future. But I only have about a $30,000 a year job, and I just didn't know if that was enough to be able to become the everyday millionaire

or if I need to look into growing my income significantly or just kind of what your thoughts were on all that. Buddy, you are speaking my love language through here. You know, inside of that and in that national study we did when we talked over. Oh, buddy, you are speaking my love language through here. You know, inside of that and in that national study we did when we talked over 10,000, it was never about the income being the barrier. It was about having a plan for your money. So what is it? What line of work are you in, my friend? Currently, I am a deliverer male. I work at the post office, but I don't work necessarily for them. It's an outside contractor company. They buy the routes, and then I deliver the mail.

How old are you? I'm 26. Okay. So what do you want to be doing when you're 46? Same thing? I mean, it just depends. I mean depends on what it just depends I mean I'm okay with it I enjoy what I do

I have I'm also involved in ministry I've got some other I have a photography business I'd love to see that grow and honestly would love to be able to work for myself but I don't know if that will ever truly take place or not well here's, but I don't know if that will ever truly take place or not.

Well, here's the thing. I don't mind you. There is no shame in starting at any income. And obviously, if you save steadily a goodly portion of your income, eventually you will become a millionaire at virtually any income. In order to save that, you've got to be able to eat while you're doing that. And so, you know, logic tells all of us that the more money you make, the more you could save, and therefore the faster you would get there.

And so what I would challenge you on is not so much to say, oh, you don't make enough money to win. Instead, I would just say, if I'm you, I want a life plan that includes personal growth. And as you grow personally, you should do something in the marketplace that pays you more because you should be worth more. And so an example of that would be to open your photography business on the side and, you know, get better and better at it. Get better at photography.

Get better at business. Get better at marketing. Get better at social media until your photography business grows. And, I mean, it doesn't have to, but it wouldn't make me mad if you made $200,000 a year doing that, and it wouldn't make you mad either so but but that's a growth plan for you that the money reflects instead of saying no people that make thirty thousand dollars just can't do it right because your life is never a snapshot it's a film strip that's a very good point dave and your income is going to grow and here's the beauty of it it should grow you you get out of debt now you don't have any hands reaching into your wallet.

You get a chance to have the money actually hang around with you and go to an investment account or go toward giving. You get a chance to be in control. So get yourself out of debt, build up an emergency fund, then start to invest. David, kind of sounds like a broken record.

Almost like we've done this for 30 years. Lance is in Virginia. Hey, Lance, how are you? I'm good. How are you guys doing? Better than we deserve, man. What's up? So I save about 75% of my paycheck a year based on how I live my life. Very simple and conservative.

Wow, what do you make which comes i make about uh 40 000 before taxes and i save about 1600 after taxes wow every every month look at you okay so so that's what that's what happens when i only pay rent that's only 460 and i only eat food that's $100 a month, right? Okay. That'd be conservative. You save money. Okay. My question is, I'm trying to get after I'm $3,000 in debt and that'll be done in about

a month and a half. I wanted to know when the investing starts, should I invest all my money into a 401k? I want to know percentages-wise. How much should I invest in a 401k? How much should I invest in the Roth IRA you always talk about? Okay, you're getting out of debt with $30,000, but you're saving 75% of your income. I'm confused. Which one are you doing i'm currently i'm saving 1600 which will be put all into

i have eleven thousand dollars and i'll be wiping out the rest of my debt why don't you just pay it on the debt right and then after that no i mean why don't be saving. Why are you saving it? Why don't you pay it onto the debt? With the COVID-19 thing, it extended the – I'm not paying any – I don't have any monthly payments for now for like a year and two months. I don't care. Pay it off. You're right. It's not gaining interest either. I don't care.

Pay it off. That's what I'm saying I do. Have you got the money in the bank to pay the debt off today? Yeah. Pay it off today. And is your income stable? Yeah. Yeah.

45 hours a week, give or take. Don't play the fuzzy math, buddy. Just pay that debt off. Now that payment's out of your life and you get to move on. Yeah. And then you finish up your emergency fund at three to six months of expenses and then you start saving 15% of your income. And that's the answer to your question. But not while we're screwing around with these student loans. And just get rid of them. Yeah. Get it out of your life. Go to my website, ChrisHogan360.com. I've got an investing guide that'll break it down the way we teach you to invest.

You're $11,000 from being free. Be free. Be free. Yeah. Michaela is with us in California. Hi, Michaela. How are you? I'm good.

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Awesome. Okay. So I was wondering if I could get some feedback from you and Chris on pausing baby step two and starting baby step three in the middle of a career change. So I started throwing basically all of my paycheck towards my debt. I started at $48,000. I'm about $45,000 now less.

I've paid off four credit cards so far, and I make $28,000 a year, but the job is becoming physically and emotionally draining. What does the new job pay? The new job can pay anywhere from $60,,000 a year can pay what is a commission uh no so i would be working for myself um social media marketing having my own firm charging clients a single call anywhere from 800 to a thousand dollars per month um so my idea And you've never done this before?

No, I have not. So what makes you think you can do that? I don't know. I think it's a leap of faith as well. I'm still researching it. My plan was to not go full-time until I've left my actual job, which I can do in December. Yeah, what I would do is not go full-time until you're making $25,000 a year at the social media thing. And then I would quit that stinking job as fast as you can after that.

But you need to start social media as a side hustle immediately. Yeah, okay. Right now. And you don't need any money to do that and that's the thing i was going to tell you mckayla you don't have to add debt to do this okay and so so many people have these business ideas and you don't have to stop your day baby steps all you gotta do is just start working that's exactly right work it get intentional you're not i kind of smell you're trying to buy a business in a box if someone's told you what your income is going to be.

Because that income sounded kind of just thrown out there like you were getting a job with somebody. 60 to 80, yeah. So don't buy a business in a box. Go learn how to do social media and just do it. It is not rocket science. That's the good news. That puts us out of the Dave Ramsey Show and the books. We'll be back with you before you know it.

In the meantime, remember, there's ultimately only one way to financial peace, and that's to walk daily with the Prince of Peace, Christ Jesus. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. You can listen to Dave, Rachel Cruz, Chris Hogan, or the rest of the Ramsey Network anywhere with the Ramsey Network app on your smartphone. Catch all of our full shows, browse by topic, or send clips to your friends. Head to the App Store and download the Ramsey Network app today.