The Ramsey Show - App - Your Life Is More Than Just a Set of Numbers

Episode Date: January 6, 2025

From Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm Ramsey personality, George Campbell, joined by my good friend, Dr. John Deloney, and we are here for you. We want to help you take the right next step with your life, your money, your relationships, whatever's going on. So give us a call at 888-825-5225. Chad is going to kick us off in Orlando, Florida. What's going on, Chad? Hey, how's it going? Good, how are you? Thank you

guys for letting me on the show. I started my business, I'm in the construction industry. I started my business in 2017. Ran it for until the end of 2019, then started working for somebody and then picked up my business again in 2022 until recent until today still and uh i never paid taxes and i've never filed business taxes and i'm at a point now where i don't know where to i don't know what to do i don't know where to start have you guesstimated how bad it is or let me ask you this way have you made money have you done well over the last few years Have you guesstimated how bad it is? Let me ask you this way. Have you made money? Have you done well over the last few years?

The past two years have been very well. Do you have any money currently? You got money saved? I mean, probably around $10,000 is it. Oh, boy. And I don't know. I don't even know where to begin. And I'm trying to do everything right, and this is something that keeps me up at night. What stopped you?

Because you knew day one, all right, I got a business, I make money, I got to pay the piper. What caused you to go, I'm going to bury my head in the sand? Did it just become too much after year one or two, or what? Yeah, the first year was a little rough, just trying to make it. And then the second year was pretty decent, but it was still rough. I was basically using everything to just pay for my life, pay for my everything. So when was your last tax return that you filed? What year?

So I did one last year. So I have my business, and I still work full-time with a company. So I have a W-2 that I have filed. So I've been filing W-2s, but it's my side business that's been that's been uh so if you if you had to ballpark the last seven years um what you've made minus what you like like uh yeah you know your your profit your profit right um times 35%. Yeah. I mean, what's 35% of that profit number, do you think? Are you talking $100,000?

Are you talking $500,000? No, it's not near that. It's probably around $100,000 at this point, I would say. What's your call to conscience? Is it just like new year, new you, like 2025, we've got to get this thing right? No, I've been trying to figure out what to do for probably about a year now. And I'm at the point now, I have to secure the rest of my future with my family. And I have to do everything right now. So George is going to walk you through it it but i want to tell you two things number one um we could sit here and beat you up for being

dumb over the last seven years you got a family i'm not going to do that i'm going to tell you i'm proud of you for today being the day we're going to come clean we're going to get this thing right okay yes appreciate the second thing is you have put an extra 10 years of life miles on your heart and on your brain. Yeah. And let this be the moment that if you have a hard conversation with your wife, with your kids, with your kids' schools, with an employee, that we're going to handle that stuff as they come up day of so that we don't add any extra miles to our soul. Right? Absolutely.

Good on you. All right. Hey, this is going to suck. All right. This is not going to be fun, but we're going to get on it. We're going to do it right. So Chad, the first thing like John was talking about, we need to assess the damage. So you need to get all the financial records you can, figure out what amounts are owed, income, payroll, taxes, federal, state, local, you name it. Get all the documents you can get, expense records, prior tax filings. Once you have all that, you need to contact a really good CPA.

And if you go to ramseysolutions.com slash tax, we have a network of these pros that can help walk you through this. But you're going to need a pro. This is not a DIY situation. I knew that from, yeah. Okay. That's where I, but I don't, I'm like at the point where I was like, do I need to get a tax attorney? I mean, not just a CPA. I don't know what to do.

Well, they'll be able to direct you and say, hey, this is attorney level. I think so. It may not be. We don't know yet. I think you'll end up there unless you can come up with a big chunk of money. But that's a problem for future you. Let's just do the next right thing right in front of us, right? And the goal is you want to be proactive, calling the IRS, explaining the situation.

That can actually reduce your penalties. And likely what they're going to say is, well, how much can you pay now? Because that's going to help you reduce penalties in the future. And then what does this payment plan look like? Yeah. And so you're going to have to pay the piper here. But the goal is to now minimize more damage being created. And so that's where being really proactive, explaining the whole situation, getting with a good CPA, and then figuring out a game plan. And the next few years of your life

are going to look drastically different. You're going to have to learn to live on 30, 40% of your income because the rest of it is going to pay for the past. Right. I mean, that's the hardest part is the sacrifice your lifestyle is about to take. But it's not as hard as going to jail for tax evasion exactly oh no yeah that's that's those are your options yeah yeah i literally i've literally thought about every scenario you could ever think of and that's that's where i'm at i'm how old are your kids brother i'll do um um my daughter's a she's at that high school now so i don't it's not a young family but it's still my wife you know a, she's at that high school now, so I don't, it's not a young family, but it's still my wife. You know, she's, she's wanting to start a business and, and it's just like, we're, we,

we need to get everything done a hundred percent right now. Can I, can I tell you what's going to free you? Yeah. It's going to sound nuts. After you call this, um, I want you to get online, like George said, and get with the Ramsey Tax Pro, I want you to sit down and say, I've made a huge mess. I don't know where to start. I need some help.

And they will give you a step-by-step guide. Okay? That's number one. There's a chance that with your business not being so great most of the time and your expenses and buying tools and wood and whatever else you're doing, it may not be as bad as us just sitting here thinking it is, right? Right, yeah. But there's an existential part of this, and I want you to sit down with your wife and your daughter at your kitchen table, and I want you to look them both in the eye and

say, I messed up. My wife's aware. I know, but I want your daughter to participate and see what it looks like when a man tells the truth. Right. And when a man says the words, their dad says the words, I'm sorry. And here's what I'm doing now, because your daughter is going to be a part. Your wife's going to be a part of the sacrifice moving forward. Like George said, right.

You're not going to have way less disposable income. Daughter may not have the car that she was hoping to get. She may not be able to go to college she was hoping to go to, right? Maybe. Yeah, that's where I'm at. Maybe not, but you're going to be free because you're going to have put everything out on the table for her. And she needs to know dad has a plan. Dad's calling a professional. Dad called a couple of knuckleheads on a YouTube show, on a podcast. And so that was huge. But dad's got a plan and's calling a professional dad called a couple of uh knuckleheads on a on a youtube show on a podcast and so that was huge um but dad's got a plan we're moving forward and in this house from this day forward we're people of integrity we do things the right way right i really that

yeah i really appreciate that you got it it will free you if you do that yeah a lot of this is the emotional just build up of seven years of burying this and burying this. And now we got to do some excavating. That's right. It's 2025. Listen, conflict deferred is conflict amplified. Whatever hard conversations or tough decisions you need to make right now will be worse the longer you wait. Make 2025 the year you just head straight into these things and get them over with. Hey, you guys, I'm not a fan of the big banks,

and you probably already know which ones I mean. But I do like credit unions because they're nonprofit organizations that focus on their members. And I'm proud to endorse Fairwinds Credit Union because they share the Ramsey mission of helping people get out of debt and live generously. In fact, they design products to help keep you from going into debt in the first place. Fairwinds has been in business for over 75 years, and they serve hundreds of thousands of members worldwide. You can feel secure because your deposits are federally insured by the NCUA up to $250,000.

It's easy to join and Fairwinds partners with more than 5,000 credit union locations around the country so you can bank in person wherever you live. But if you prefer the online experience, you can log on to Fairwinds and do anything you could do at a physical location. So go to fairwinds.org slash Ramsey to learn more. And while you're there, look at the combined checking and savings account bundle they created just for Ramsey fans to help you take control of your finances. That's Fairwinds, F-A-I-R-W-I-N-D-S dot org slash Ramsey.

Welcome back to the Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. If you're listening to this show, I'm going to assume you like it. This is not a hate watch or listen for you. And we want to know your favorite. Well, for some people. That's why John listens. Some people.

But we do, John. We want to know what your favorite parts of the show are, what you like, even what you don't like. We want to hear more about whatever it is we want to hear. So, Survey is now live. The Ramsey Show Annual Listener Survey. And there's two ways to participate. If you want to help us out, text the word survey to 33789. That's 33789. Text the word survey, or just go to ramsesolutions.com slash survey. And if you're listening on podcast

or YouTube, just click the link in the show notes and description, and you will be sent there. And here's a little bonus for you. If you sign up today, you'll be entered to win a $500 gift card if you complete the survey. And this really helps us out. This shapes the content that we bring you guys, and it means a lot. So go check it out. All right, let's go to Brandon in Gulfport, Mississippi up next. Welcome to The Ramsey Show.

Hi, thanks for having me. Sure. What's going on? Well, George, Dr. John, very good to talk to you all. And, Dr. John, I'm about halfway through your new book, and so far so good. Well, I appreciate that, brother. Thank you. Good to be back. Yeah.

Hey, just a little back story. We've been at the Baby Steps since about 2010. So we became everyday millionaires, almost textbook. Within 10 years, we became millionaires and paid off our whole nine yards. Amazing. Of course, with no debt and so forth. But recently, I'd say within the last two or three years, we started noticing old relationships kind of fizzling and building new ones have not been so great as a family. And it's sort of an unintended consequence of, I think, how we live our lives. Even though we don't brag about it,

I mean, certain things have come up over the years, like, you know, paying for our kids, fully funding their college through 529s, paying for cars with cash, you know, paying off our house and renovating our houses with cash. You know, in certain circles, that information has spread like wildfire, but in a negative way. And like I said, we're not going out of our way to brag about these things, but we start to see a trend of folks kind of backing out of our lives. And, you know, we get the comments like, oh, y'all are hanging around rich folks now, or we're in different circles and so forth. And, you know, we're just trying to figure out

how do we deal with that? You know, I know it's not a terribly bad problem to have, but still, we're just fixing the change. Yeah, it can be a devastating problem to have. The two words coming to my mind are the title of Mel Robbins' new book. And my thought is, let them. Just let them. If people don't want to be your friend anymore because you're successful, then I would suggest they may not have been your friend in the first place. The depth of the relationship that you assumed was there or that you had invested on your side

was not there to begin with because over the last few years obviously working for dave he takes care of us really well um my life's changed and for my deepest closest relationships that i've had for years it's just made them deeper they make fun of me more and they write they make jokes and they always laugh when the tab comes and they're like i'm a panda you're paying like right but it's all in support and care and love and how old are you guys uh 41 41 uh how old are your kids uh they're still in elementary school okay so this is i'm wondering if two things are happening and you're looking at one side of the equation the other side of the equation is it's very very normal you guys are like me and my wife y'all are late parents with y'all are older parents with young kids and you find yourself at

elementary school functions with a bunch of 20 year old parents maybe 30 year old parents and y'all just in different life stages and those same friends you realize oh you're one of those weird little league parents or you're like a cub scout dad and you might be like uh we go fishing dad right there's a natural separation that happens when your kids are this age and that that happens whether you have money or not. It's just normal, it just happens. And so I think the bigger challenge for you guys is to not dump this all on the fact that y'all pay for stuff with cash

and more recognize it as just a life stage, just a developmental transitional stage. And kind of like when my grandparents on both sides, they were told like, hey, smoking's like a good way to help you relieve stress and then they're like oh yeah and it kills you they all had to quit smoking i think similarly you guys have to decide we have to do something different to stay healthy and that means we have to be obnoxiously intentional about having friends making new friends and um going from there i mean

i don't know another objective way around this problem because you can't be lonely because I just know the data on loneliness is it's just a decision to die early and miserably, right? That's all great advice. And like you had said, we have heard that quite a bit. Like, hey, we're not catching this bill. We know you guys have money,

so we're just going to let you take the bill. And, you know, that's funny at first, but when it's three, four, five times in a row, it gets a little old. Hey, let me qualify what I said. I remember the first time that happened. The second time I went out with some friends, they've been my friends for 30 years. And I picked up the tab and one of my friends turned and looked at me and said, you will never do that again. I'm your friend before this, and I'll be your friend after this. And he's somebody who speaks wisdom in a mile. He's a goofball, but he's awesome. But that was a good, like, Hey, we don't love you for this. Right. And so, yeah, if your friends, if they're not your friends, then right there, you're their coupon book.

So here's the two things I found. Go first and be weird. And what I mean by that is don't wait for somebody to invite y'all because it's not going to happen. Y'all do the inviting. Have somebody over to your house and be weird, meaning just go ask them. Hey, I'm going for a run. You want to come with me? I'm going to work out. You want to come with me?

I got to build something in my backyard. You want to help me build it? And you're going to get no, no, no, no. Sure, I'll come. And then there you go. But I don't know another way around it. George, how do you make friends? You're asking the wrong guy, John. I'm asking the wrong guy.

John won't even be friends with me. George has an app for that, I guess, somewhere. No, but I've been thinking about this, Brandon, because I'm in a similar phase. I'm just very gung-ho on the baby steps, have been for a long time. And what I found is over time, there's a natural shedding of old relationships that just don't serve you. And it's not a selfish thing if they've got to add value to my life. You just find that I communicate with them less, they talk to me less, and I'm learning to have new relationships. And so part of what you're experiencing is this idea that your friends have poisoned the well by choosing to believe that the way you live your life is a judgment

against them. It's a personal attack that you say for your kid's college while they can't or won't. And that's the part you need to drop and go, all right, that's not on me. You sound like a real nice guy, not a braggadocious type. So I don't know, maybe I'm wrong, but that's the hard part is for you to just swallow that pill and go, no, that's on them. That's the poison they're choosing to drink and I want no part in it. Now, George, I think you hit the nail on the head there. And that's some of the comments that we've heard kind of nonchalant off comments, you know, at social events. And it's like that, you know, it's like what we're doing is strange and out of character for them. But we've been living this way for 15 plus years.

And here's the deal. It's not like we became this way overnight. Yeah, but here's the thing. It is strange and it is weird. It's insane that I just said that, that it is strange and weird to live on less than you make. You've lived intentionally for a long time. That's rare.

But here's the thing. Your friends should love you in spite of and because of your weird and strange things that's what makes you all y'all right none of my friend i i can't think of any of my older friends that live the ramsey principles they like i get an open like they mock me we'll laugh at each other we'll poke and prod i got one guy that has never owed anybody money ever and he's like yeah i didn't need a program to tell me like, like, right. So that's my friendships,

but they love me in spite of it. Same with my weird music choices. Same. The fact that I like to sneak away and go to punk rock shows at 10 o'clock at night. Like they love me in spite of, and because of my idiosyncrasies. And so this is deeper than the baby steps.

This is like George said, people who are choosing to see the way you guys live your life as some sort of indictment on the way they're doing it. And that just is them, unfortunately, opting out of relationship with you. And that's a bum deal, man. But by the way, this would be happening if you did or did not do too much travel sports. Or if you did or did not do too much Cub Scouting. Like, this is just that season for y'all.

The comparison game is real in adulthood. It just is. So I love John's idea of who do you admire? When you guys go home and you're talking to your wife, who are the people that are like, man, they seem really... Invite them over. Yeah. And then be weird and send the text, make the phone call. And then you're going to develop new relationships over time. And it's still going to be weird and awkward.

And it's always going to be weird. And go anyway. Thanks so much for the call. Great conversation, Brandon. More of your calls coming up. 888-825-5225. This is The Ramsey Show. There's a time in your life and in the baby steps for renting, but you don't want to do it forever because when you rent, you're still paying for a mortgage,

just somebody else's. Plus, rent means instability in your budget because it always goes up, never down. So when you're ready to buy, make sure you work with a mortgage partner you can rely on. Churchill Mortgage. Churchill is Ramsey trusted to help you make the move from renting to home ownership wisely. Churchill understands that when you buy a home the Ramsey way, your mortgage payment will be a consistent, manageable part of your monthly budget. Plus, when your home is paid off, that was your largest expense. Now it's extra money in your

pocket and an asset towards turning you into a Baby Steps millionaire. So get started on the American dream of home ownership today at churchhillmortgage.com. That's churchhillmortgage.com. This is a paid advertisement. NMLS ID 1591. NMLS consumeraccess.org. Equal housing lender. 1749 Mallory Lane, Suite 100. Brentwood, Tennessee 37027. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Jennifer's up next in Boston, Massachusetts. What's going on, Jennifer? Hi. I'm calling because the question's mostly related to my health, as I look like I'm going

to need to be selling it because I got myself into a bit of a jam. For context, I got divorced this year after last year I discovered my husband was engaging with women online for most of our 15-year marriage and spending thousands and thousands every month and had later gotten into like GameStop kind of things like with the stock market and gambling. And it was a huge shock to everyone, especially me. So we did end up getting divorced in October. And over the past year, I'm disabled anyways. I was on disability SSDI for a long time. I started working during COVID and was able to get back to a really good job that I loved.

But over the past year, I've had to exhaust my leave time and ended up leaving completely because I had gotten sick so frequently. So right now I'm without a job and have three little kids. And I do have this house which I got in the divorce. But I'm kind of looking for next steps and what I should do because I didn't accumulate a lot because of my situation and it's just, yeah, a tricky spot to be in. Yeah, that's heartbreaking. What a mess. What's the nature of your disability?

So shortly after I got married, I got a really bad virus and I never really recovered from it. So I didn't walk for a couple of years, kind of slowly went back. It's energy limiting. So it was kind of like long COVID, before long COVID, ME, CFS. Okay. Do you, was the stress of finding all of this stuff out and realizing that the man you'd been married to for 15 years wasn't who he said he was? I mean, that's just so disorienting, but almost more disorienting than finding out somebody is not who they said they were is you lose trust you lose trust in yourself right oh absolutely it was like a complete betrayal and like how could i not know how did i not that's right right so it makes you not only do you have this person that he didn't

stab you in the back he stabbed you in the face right stabbed you in the front but then also it's hard to even look at yourself in the mirror did that exacerbate your what would ultimately be some sort of chronic fatigue i mean that make it worse over the past year oh absolutely i got not only did it exacerbate my chronic conditions but i got shingles i got covid twice i got food poisoning all the time like you mean like i just my immune systems just b. So here's why I asked that. Because there's not an easy, there's not an easy path forward. But my hope would be that when the acuteness of the stress, when the pain from this burn that you feel is lessened,

will your body go back to a place where you can work? And what you said was a really great job that provided for you guys. Cause here's the thing. Um, it doesn't sound like anybody's coming to rescue you. No. And my doctor, you know, it was hard because even when I was working from home every week was a win. And he knew that. I think he took advantage of that because every week was a win. Like he knew that. I think he took advantage of that because every week was a win. Like I did it. I wanted to have that self identity because I felt like my career was stolen. So I worked really hard every week just to survive.

And at the expense of honestly spending time with my kids and living more of a life because I wanted that career. Sure. Now you have to have it. And that's a different problem. That's a hard thing because my doctor kind of disagrees. He's like, you need to take care of you. You do, but y'all need groceries.

Are you getting alimony? So no alimony, but child support. And then he did only a promissory note from what he had spent. He had agreed to sign for that, some of what he had spent. But I haven't really seen consistent payment on that, and I don't know if I will. You won't. You know that you won't.

Have you filed for SSI yet? So because I had gotten that before, I'd been on the phone. But actually this week I was on the phone with Social Security for like three hours on hold in that process. Okay. And you may need to bite the bullet and get an SSI attorney that will walk that with you. They can be worth their weight in gold. They can help you navigate that process. And there may be some local resources.

Do you have any family help with mom, dad, sister, brother, cousins? Yeah. some local resources do you have any family help with mom dad sister brother cousins yeah so um my parents because there was also construction happening we had we had a flood in the house and had to leave and so there was construction happening at the house and that went over budget and um you know my ex was supposed to pay half of that but he didn't so my parents had to loan me money for that. So I really do need to sell so I can pay them back because they're older. And I don't want to have to have that burden on me as well. Well, there is that, but I'm talking more long-term.

Because if you sell your house just to pay off a debt, that's fine. But where are you with three or four kids? Where are you all going to live? I'm hoping in a house where I don't have a mortgage. Yeah, there's no such thing as that. What's your mortgage right now? It's $2,200. Okay.

And you've got zero money coming in? Right now, other than child support, correct. How much is child support? Yeah. I get like $5.85 a week. Okay. That's barely enough to cover the mortgage. Much less food, clothes, everything.

Is there a possibility that you sit down with your parents and say, we need to sell the house and I need to move in with you guys? Here's the thing. You don't have any options. I know, but they sell the condo and move in with you. You, you have to get drastic because I don't feel like you're grasping the gravity of the situation. You got four kids. You don't have enough money. Three kids. I do got, I'm grasping the gravity. I just, um, that's why I'm calling. Yeah. It's going to be getting radical.

I mean, it's going to be doing things that are uncomfortable. You're, you're, you're picking from a series of uncomfortable choices. Yeah. So selling the house might be the move. I want it to be a last ditch effort when you've exhausted all other options, because I assume to rent in your area,

to get a house that'll fit your kids is going to be more than 2200. Absolutely. I don't know what part of Boston you're in, but that's where I'm from and it ain't cheap. Yeah. Or do we have to move? Do we have to move to Kansas where it's cheaper to live? And I can work remote there. I think your doctor's right.

I mean, I would agree with him 100%. You got to take care of you. But that works in a context when you have somebody that can help with the bills and with food and with the light bill you don't have that right now yeah and so it's it's a matter of calling a sister and saying hey would you move in with us for a year or i need to sell this house because we're broke um could i move my three kids in there i know that's awful and awkward and whatever i'm gonna get back on my feet but or mom and dad i know this wasn't in your retirement plan but y'all would you be interested in moving in with us and we'll put one of the kids in a room

i'll give you all the master and i'll move into one of the other bedrooms but we're gonna figure something out i think you're at that level of i've got to solve these problems here and i hate hate hate hate hate that you're in this situation thank you yeah it's very stressful and i know it's like a vicious cycle there so i'm just um yeah yeah there's just not a lot of options there's not a lot of options but here's the other thing um if you don't remember anything else from this phone call remember that george and i believe in you thank you because we've taken call after call from people who are like all right we got to figure this out and then somehow some way they do they do they scratch and they claw and they do

and i think you've got strength and power inside of you that has been squashed and stomped on and you again you don't know this but we do from the outside. You've lived with somebody for 15 years that has been a liar, has been dishonest. And there's an electricity that's been in your home of deception, dishonesty, and a lack of integrity for a decade and a half. And I know this sounds bonkers, but my guess is you're going to, even though you have this loss and you have this heartbreak, you're going to have peace in your home that you haven't had in ages. I agree. And I think your body's going to respond to that.

That's my hope. But yeah, keep listening to your doctor. It takes the next right steps, but it sounds like you're at a place where you've got to get radical. Yeah. And we're going to hook you up with Financial Peace University and EveryDollarJennifer. That's going to give you the information you need, the motivation, the budgeting tool, so that this week you can look at what are my bills, what is the income,

and can I get through this without going into debt. This is survival mode, and we hope that one day soon you'll be thriving. Thanks for the call. This is The Ramsey Show. What does the future hold for business? Ask nine experts and you'll get ten different answers. Economic growth or a recession. Business taxes will go up or down.

AI will help us work or it will replace us all. But there's no such thing as a crystal ball. That's why more than 40,000 businesses have future-proofed themselves with NetSuite by Oracle, the number one cloud enterprise resource planning system. Ramsey Solutions uses NetSuite, and you should too. Whether your company's earning millions or even hundreds of millions, NetSuite helps you respond to immediate challenges and seize your biggest opportunities. With one unified business management suite, there's only one source of truth for the visibility and control you need to make quick decisions.

NetSuite's real-time insights and forecasting help you see into the future with actionable data. And when you're closing the books in days, not weeks, you can spend less time looking backward and more time focusing on what's next. And speaking of what's next, download the CFO's Guide to AI and Machine Learning at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. It's free at netsuite.com slash Ramsey. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. You know, every day we take calls on The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. You know, every day we take calls on The Ramsey Show, but we don't always know what happens after we hang up. Did they take our advice? I know a lot of you are wondering, and so we wanted to stop you from wondering. So we have a new show called 90 Day Money Makeover that lets us find out what happens next.

And the good news is the first episode is now available on YouTube. And in episode one, we follow single mom Heather, who's drowning in debt and stress following her divorce. Not only that, but she's trying to keep up with the family farm, including horses, chickens, and more. And it consumes almost all of her time and money. So the question is, is she willing to sell 30 chickens a calf, maybe even the horse? Hey, dude, this lady is incredible. It's incredible. I got to watch this. Jane went out to her farm. It's incredible. It's incredible. I got to watch this. Jade went out to her farm.

It's amazing. It's amazing. You got to check this out. So Heather, she's got to consider major lifestyle changes. Jade's out there walking alongside her through these decisions and sacrifices that she never imagined making. So if you want to see just how far she's willing to go to change her life and her finances for good, go check out 90 Day Money Makeover.

It's now available on YouTube, on our YouTube channel, or click the link in the show notes. It'll take you right there. Very exciting. It's an awesome concept. We never get to interface with the people. Well, I think it's a, here's what I think it is. I think it's cool to the people who wonder, is this for real? It's cool to give somebody seven minutes of whatever of of our opinion on something um and it's cool that we're always up here saying you should use every dollar and you should go through financial peace but if you're a a critically thinking person you have to ask is this for real it can't possibly be this easy are they really going to do all they're going to change this is actually work work. And so it's kind of like a

bluff call, right? Like money where your mouth is. We're going to follow this person for 90 days and see what happens. But they got to do it every day and they do journal, like video journals and they walk through the city. It's amazing. And the production quality. Our team did this all in-house and it is next level. So go

check it out. 90 Day Money Makeover. Alright, Phoebe's up next in San Diego. How can we help, Phoebe? Hi. Great to talk to you guys. You as well. I have a question about, I just got engaged. Woo!

Ew! Is the person good? He's amazing. Okay, good. I take that. Well done. So I own a business. I've been open for two and a half years.

It's a little facial spa and he is a musician. So he's self-employed as well. And I'm wondering because my business is basically me, I don't have any income that goes into my personal account apart from my rent being withdrew. So I'm wondering how should we combine our finances? How much should I pay myself for when we have a joint account? And then also, this is kind of like a two-part question. He's in debt 25,000 student loans loans and he doesn't really think it's important to pay those um like all at once you should you should marry him and then pay them off

no i'm just playing no i mean you should still marry him but i'll just be a smart alec Um, so he is kind of on that, like pay them slowly, auto pay kind of thing. Whereas I think, you know, being, I'm not in any debt and I love not being in debt. Um, so I kind of want to get on the same page with that. And I don't really know how, um, and then one more question, we don't really know how. And then one more question. We don't live together yet. And when we get married and do, we basically, I'm just wondering, San Diego is very expensive and we want to buy one day. And we were thinking of looking out of state to buy something that would be cheaper as an investment property and what your thoughts are on that. And then if renting is like wasting money in the first few, I guess, years of our marriage. Are you new to our gang, Phoebe? Fairly.

I know that you say no about buying out of state, but maybe there's an exception because San Diego is so expensive. There's the Phoebe rule. The Phoebe rule. In statute 50, no. Correct. Well, hey, welcome to our gang, and we will ship you an honorary gallon of the Ramsey Kool-Aid. We won't, but that would be cool if we did.

Let's try to address these. Yeah, let's walk through. Lock on on here. So combining income, it doesn't sound like you're paying yourself a salary right now. How are you eating? How are you paying for other bills outside of rent? I don't have that many bills. Right now, my lifestyle is quite low because my rent is very cheap. Hey, hold on. You're doing something that I think is dangerous. Do you have a separate business account that all of your

business money goes into? Yes. Okay. And so that money just stays in there and that's what you buy facial stuff with tools. Yeah. Everything from my business, I buy that. And then I have money in a different Wells Fargo account that I buy like my own life. It's your personal account. How does money get from one to another?

Do you just go to the business account whenever you need to get some groceries or something? I have about $10,000 in my Wells Fargo that I've just been using. I've just been using that money for personal. But it's because I sold something, so I have that money. What would be a reasonable salary to pay yourself out of this business? Every month, let's say, here's your take-home pay for the month. What would you transfer over to your personal checking? Maybe like half of what I make.

No, give me a number. Is it $5,000 a month? Yeah, that sounds good. So that would mean you're making $60,000 a month? Yeah, that sounds good. So that would mean you're making $60,000 a year. Uh-huh. And then California's taking 90%. I'm just kidding. But they're taking a big chunk of it.

And then Washington takes a chunk of it. So if you don't know what you're actually making, and you either A, live out of of this account which a lot of small businesses do and it's dangerous if you don't know what you're making um then you don't know if you're running a hobby or an actual successful business and so coming up with some number some kind of draw that you're going to pay yourself and then as george is going to walk you through like then it sets the stage for can i afford this car? Can I afford this apartment or this house? Because you know how much money your business is making,

and then you know how much money your business is paying you. And then we can make a plan to get out of debt, get an emergency fund, save for a down payment. Otherwise, it's just, I don't know, let's see how much we can pull out of the business this month. So we need to have something a little more stable. And then as you actually get married and combine finances, now it becomes, okay, what is his stable income? What's his irregular income? What can we plan on?

And then where is that money going to go? And that's where the baby steps come in. So your next question was, how do we get on the same page? Because he's clearly in a different world right now when it comes to finances. And that's where Financial Peace University is one of the best tools. And I will gift it to you guys as premarital counseling if you think he'll go through it with you. Oh, yeah. That's something that I've been wanting to you guys as premarital counseling if you think he'll go through it with you. Oh yeah that's something that I've been wanting to do and he said that he would. Good. Because I think he's a great guy. I think he just

he doesn't know. He's a bass player. You don't know what you don't know. Yeah he didn't have financial literacy. Yeah what does he play by the way? I think that's important. He's a multi-instrumentalist. Oh dang. So he's not great at anything. No he's actually very great at anything. Yeah. That's what I heard.

No, I'm just kidding. No, he's actually very great at all of them. He sounds like a savant. How much money does he make a year? Probably about 40. Okay. So George is right, watching those videos together, and I think not talking about, hey, it's a really big deal, I get out of debt.

I think the conversation for him is, hey, as we build our marriage, I want us to be free. Yeah. And I want our new marriage to have peace and I want you to be able to do your art and I want me to be able to take care of my people and if artists and artisans owe money,

they can never fully go to the full ends of the expression of their art because they always have to pay somebody. Right? And so it's really talking to a musician about freedom. And we need to figure out if this is a hobby because 40 grand in San Diego, we're not talking real estate mogul buying investment property. We're talking like maybe I get to eat this week. And so we need to look at what does a career look like? And we both have savings, like a good amount of savings. Yeah, but those go away so fast. They go away so fast when you're newlyweds. I just trust two people who have been married. They go away so fast. So your last question, is it a waste of money to

rent? No. Renting is buying patience. It shows wisdom and maturity. And until you guys are out of debt with a fully funded emergency fund and then a down payment where you can actually afford the mortgage, we're talking 25% of take-home pay, I would not buy property locally and I definitely would not buy it outside of the state. If you guys want to move outside of San Diego and you start a facial business out there for lower cost of living, go for it. But the cost, the high cost of living in San Diego doesn't give you a pass on the rules of math. Math doesn't care how you feel. Math just is. So thanks for the call, Phoebe.

We appreciate it. Hang on the line. Kelly's going to pick up. We'll get you. Financial Peace University. Wishing you guys the best. That puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. Live from the Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show,

where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by the host of The Dr. John Deloney Show, Dr. John Deloney. We're here to help, taking your calls at 888-825-5225. If you want to talk life, money, mental health, relationships, you name it, we are here for you. Ted is going to kick us off in San Francisco. What's going on, Ted? Hey, guys. Happy New Year. What up? Happy New Year, man. What's going on?

Yeah, I have three financial advice questions I need from you guys, but let me give you the background about my history, where I'm at. Right now, my wife and I make pretty good money in San Francisco. Our combined income is $450,000. Awesome. That's basic minimum wage in San Francisco, right? Pretty much.

We have a two-year-old, and we have another one coming in May this year. We have zero debt, zero car payments. We locked in 2.5 interest at a condo about four years ago. So we're saving a lot. We're maxing out 401k. We have an emergency fund.

We're putting money into education funds. And we finally have enough money saved up to buy a home. And we want to move to Southern California just because we have family, friends there. We't have anyone here. So when we close the family, get some help. But with the current, my first question with the current interest mortgage rates and how expensive houses are, what's your advice or like your thoughts on reducing our savings a little bit, like our 401k, our normal savings, and paying an expensive $8,000 to $9,000 mortgage, which basically goes from 20% of our income to 50% of our income. That's a lot of your income going toward a mortgage. I would never do that.

It is, yeah. So what does it take to get to that, you know, 25% parameter with the mortgage? Would that mean pausing investing and waiting two years and stacking up cash? Well, um, I mean, we could go for a smaller home, but with the two kids,

I was like one coming, one kid now, one coming where we were wanting like a four bedroom place, at least for like the vets in our future. So everything in telecounseling is really expensive. I mean, we could maybe go cheaper and then renovate down the line. But, yeah, we were just kind of looking for something that's moving ready

because with the kid, we didn't want to renovate. We didn't want to do anything in terms of building a home. And you're in a condo now with how many bedrooms? It's a small two-bedroom condo. Okay. Well, for the first six months, the baby's going to be in your room probably, right? Yeah. So we're probably going to be here for maybe up to a year.

Oh, sorry. What was that? We're talking like 2026 for a home purchase would be ideal? I think so. Either end of this year or sometime in early 2026. Okay. So if you paused investing, how much extra money could you stack up?

If you guys just got real focused on a budget, cut the lifestyle down, how much could you save that 450 take home? So right now our all in expenses is we need about 7,000 a month to survive. And so we're taking almost roughly about $22,000. That's after putting in 401Ks and stuff. So you have $15,000 to play with if you didn't pause investing? Yeah, yeah, exactly.

And how much do you have saved currently for the house? $400,000. Awesome. So you would add another $180,000 over the next year if you didn't make any changes? Correct. And if you did? Did you sell your condo? How much did you get for your condo? $750,000.

Okay. And what do you owe? Roughly about $520,000. Okay. You got about $200,000 equity? Yeah, about like almost $250,000. Okay. You got about $200,000 equity? Yeah, about like almost $250,000 in equity. Okay. So let's call it $200,000 plus your $400,000 saved.

That's $600,000. Let's say you save up another $200,000 over the next year. Now we're talking $800,000 as a down payment for the next house. Would that get you closer to that 25% mark? Oh, I see. Well, the thing is, I guess here's another question since we locked in such a good way no ted no don't be that guy don't get greedy on us ted so now you want to hang on to the condo use it as a rental while adding stress to your life as a long-distance

landlord while also taking out a mortgage with two young kids that is 50% right when Sam Altman keeps tweeting out that he's changing everything in Silicon Valley by the minute. Why would you do that to yourself? Here's what I want you guys to consider. Probably something most families in America have never considered. I want you and your wife to imagine over the dinner table, what if we solved for peace? Not for maximum comfort, not for best ROI, and not for we got a good interest rate so we can keep. What would peace look like in our house for the next five years where we have two toddlers, two kids under two?

What would our life look like if we solved for peace? And by the way, that would mean you guys buying a $2 million house. Wah, wah. It's not like, oh, man man you get what i'm saying like yeah if you'll solve for peace that way if she says after kid one i don't want to go back to work or you have this oh conscious awakening like i want to be a stay-at-home dad like whatever y'all can you can do whatever you want if you owe 50 of your i promise you you will regret that decision. I promise you. I promise you. I promise you.

Yeah. Okay. Thanks. And that's where our hesitation was coming from. We just wanted to see if that would even a possibility because we were getting kind of cramped in here. Okay. Thanks. That's good advice. How does that sound? Is that deflating?

Do we just bum you out? It's controversial in the financial world, especially Silicon Valley. Bro, that would be a great investment property. It's 2.5%. You're basically robbing the bank here. Why would you? And we're going, your life is more than just a set of numbers. You got a family you're trying to take care of. You got a life to live, and I don't want you spending it

worrying about a property that's hundreds of miles away. Okay. And all we're telling you is what we would do in our own house. And it's what I have done. We sold our house. We didn't hang on to it. We could have. We said we're going to sell it because we want peace. We want to get to total debt freedom faster. And now we don't have a payment in the world. And so when my wife wanted to stay at home with our baby, it wasn't even a financial conversation. It was just an emotional one of you're leaving your career and so that's what i would love for you guys to have freedom flexibility or suddenly podcasting like ended tomorrow george and like we it wouldn't be destitution it'd be like oh this sucks we got to figure out something else to do george will start mowing lawns or something he wouldn't he

absolutely would not mow lawns. Do you get what we're saying? I know it's super controversial to solve for peace and to live on less than you make. Did you have another question? Yeah, what was the other question? I did, yeah. Currently, that $400,000 is just sitting in high-yield savings.

Just looking for advice between leaving it in high-yield savings or investing in money market funds. I think high yield savings would have equal, if not better rates right now. So I don't think it's worth switching to the money market or even putting it in a CD because you're talking about a year timeline. That's just too short to be messing with things that lock up your money or invest your money. So a money market acts like a savings account. There's not many more benefits other than sometimes you get to write checks out of it or you get a debit card attached to it. So I would

just leave it with a high yield savings account. Okay. And can I, Ted, can I give you one more piece of advice? It's kind of, it's dark tinged advice. Is that okay? Yeah, please. I would not make any big major purchases, moves, job decisions or anything until your second child is born and healthy and you'll know the road ahead. Too many people that I've talked to over the years make major decisions when pregnant and life just happens, man. Pregnancies are tough. There's so much that can be different than we thought it was going to be. Let this thing play out. Baby be born healthy.

You and mom are rocking and rolling and then start making new decisions and let that cash just pile itself up. Thanks for the call, man. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys. Health insurance costs are only moving one way and that way isn't down.

And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries. CHM is a health cost-sharing ministry that's helped hundreds of thousands of families like yours take care of over $11 billion in medical bills since 1981. And CHM has also helped them stay true to their values and avoid miles of red tape.

And CHM support goes far beyond meeting financial needs. They'll also help meet spiritual needs. Members become part of a family who will pray with them and for them when they experience a medical event. So listen, y'all, there's no better way to take care of health care costs. CHM programs start as low as $98 a month. So learn more today and join at chministries.org budget at chministries.org slash budgets. That's chministries.org slash budgets. For free tools and resources to help you reach your home goals,

go to ramseysolutions.com slash real estate or click the link in the show notes. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell joined by Dr. John Deloney. Hey, it's a new year. If you're ready to get your finances in order once and for all in 2025, you've got to join us. January 23rd, we're doing a free live stream called Take

Control of Your Money. It's hosted by Dave Ramsey and Jade Warshaw. You're going to learn how to stop living paycheck to paycheck, free up more breathing room with your finances so you can pay off debt fast, finally get ahead. Plus, Rachel Cruz and I will join at the tail end for a Q&A where you can ask your money questions live. And when you sign up for the free live stream, you'll be entered to win our cash giveaway, and five people will win $4,000 each. So sign up for the free live stream by going to ramseysolutions.com slash live stream or click the link in the description if you're listening on podcast or YouTube.

Need I remind you, it is free. You've got nothing to lose. ramseysolutions.com slash live stream. Casey is in Green Bay up next. What's going on, Casey? Hi, how are you guys? Doing well. How can we help? My husband and I are trying to contemplate of him taking a new job. However, it would be a very temporary pay cut, and then there would be some changes to my career as well. In a good way? I hope so. So a little background. My husband has been a firefighter

paramedic at his current position for the last nine years, making anywhere between $81,000 and $86,000 a year. I myself am an ER nurse and make about the same. So the offer has come down the table for his dream job at a different department elsewhere in the state that's actually a little bit closer to our family. However, the training period is about five and a half months, so he would start out at around $62,000 for that five months, and we've contemplated myself staying home from work to take care of our two kids during that training period.

So we just want to kind of see if our finances can handle it. What, um, when he gets out of training, what is this how we're going to go to? So it's a stepwise process. So after that initial training, it will bump up around $75,000. And then after a total of 42 months, he'll be making $97,000 a year. So it would actually be more than what we're talking a few years down the line. Correct. Okay. So in the grand scheme of life, let's call it a wash, but it's where you guys want to go. You're closer to family. Is the cost of living the same? It's a little bit

more expensive backed by our family. However, we're trying to purchase a family property through an informal probate. So we have a property in mind that we're trying to... Would you guys immediately live on the property? Is there structure on it? There is structure on it, yes. It does need some upgrading and things like that. The other caveat to that, I guess, is that we wouldn't move until after the training period just because that way we could save on child care and things like that. It gave me some pause. When you're saying we're going from making $160,000 to $60,000 and we want to buy property and renovate and and and i'm like now i can't breathe a little bit so i think we need to we need we can't have the cake and eat it too so what can we do to take

this job i'm all for this it sounds like it's where he wants to be longer term you're closer to family eventually the pay will get up there he sounds like he's a hard-working man he's willing to take on a side job if he needs to in the meantime on top of the training. The question is, can you financially stay home, get your income down to 60 grand and still make ends meet? I don't know. Correct. What is your monthly expenses? Our mortgage is 600 a month. And then we did go through Financial Peace University and the first few baby steps. So all the debt that we have is just the house. Good. You have a fully funded emergency fund? Yes. Wow. How much is in there? We have about $55,000 in our savings. Awesome. Okay. The good news is you guys are in a great spot that this move won't be as stressful. I do

like the idea of pausing to make the move until after training. What does that mean for him traveling? So he would probably stay with his parents because the commute then would be much closer than it would be in our current home. So that's why we're contemplating me staying home with the two kids. So he's not driving three hours one way every single day. But you wouldn't see him for six months or what? He would come home on weekends. Okay. I did that for six months um transitioning jobs when my wife stayed she was finishing up her research and so we've done that and now it's before facetime yeah yeah we just had to drive and see each other so it wasn't great and but we made it

made it work and so that's not i don't think that's super undoable if y'all plan it and going in and you'll have some pretty intentional things about keeping your marriage squared up. I think the George, the variable here to me sounds like I would wait at least a year, probably two, maybe three before I would quit my ER nurse job. Cause it sounds like that's a significant chunk of your income. I would wait until the smoke cleared. And that probably means you getting a job in this new town too. And I know that's not what you want to hear, but man, that's cutting $100,000 out of our annual budget to move to a more expensive place. That sounds scary. And my plan would be to,

I've been applying for some remote positions just for during this training period, but I would plan to go back to work after the training period. If we could get some help from our family and stuff like that, I would absolutely go back to work. Oh, so you're talking about just quitting your job for six months? Yes. Would it make sense then to just do childcare for six months?

Childcare is quite expensive where we're at. Is it $100,000? No. You know what I mean? If you're making $86,000, I doubt it's, I think your take-home pay is still going to be much higher than what your daycare would cost you. Okay. You know, if you're bringing home six grand a month and daycare costs three, you're still in the black here. So I would crunch those numbers.

I'd sit down with your husband. I would do a fake every dollar budget and go, okay, here's what life looks like if we drop your income. Here's another budget. Here's what it looks like if we go down to just you in training. And then here's what our budget looks like later on. That'll give you some peace and facts instead of just here's how I'm feeling about it. That's what I would do if I was in your shoes with my wife. And here's an important thing.

When people are trying to make decisions like you are, you've got a bunch of, you've got a cool opportunity that George and I both agree. It's right on. You want to be by family. Um, it's a temporary pay cut, but it's the job your husband really wants and the department he really, really want. Like it's, everything's good. Right. Uh, but it's just going to be some steps to get there. I think where a lot of us get paralyzed is we don't want there to be any pain, any sort of hard decision, any sort of uncomfortable consequence as we make this transition. So if you just go in knowing that's impossible, there's going to be one, two or three things that we have to do for a season that we don't like. Then it's a matter of saying, okay,

it was just choosing your heart. Which crummy thing do we want? Do we want to just put our kids in childcare or hire a nanny for six months? It's expensive. It's annoying, but it is going to be what it is to get us where we want to be five years from now or three years from now. Or do we want to, you get a remote, right? So it's just knowing upfront, there's going to be some crumminess to this. You're going to have to move in with your mom. Ha, ha, ha. And then we're going to go from there. And putting those things on the table, for some reason, makes them easier to stomach.

It's when we're trying to do it all without being uncomfortable at all that we end up paralyzing ourselves. You get what I'm saying? Yes. And you guys would be selling your current home and buying a property over there? Correct. Or are you going to do the structure on the family property? Because what does this family property cost? We are still trying to work that out with my family beneficiaries, but when it was last- Oh boy, that doesn't sound good. Yeah. When it was last appraised, it was around $268,000. Okay. And what's your current house worth?

Around $300,000. Okay, good. I'm trying to make sure your mortgage doesn't triple when you make this move and it's all of a sudden, whoo. The other piece of this to be thinking about is do you guys need to rent while you renovate the structure? No. It's very livable. It's more so some cosmetic things and maybe adding on a garage excellent that's stuff you can do down the road so very very cool thanks for the call yeah it's an exciting life yeah yeah it's a lot of change at once and john there's so much more

when you look at just can we do this financially there's so much more under the surface when you talk about family and relationships and career and moving the kids it just sort of takes your breath away to think about a change that big and there's two things that paralyze us one is we don't want to have any discomfort if you just get that out of the way there's going to be some stuff that we have to do that we don't like the second big one is very few things other than having kids or um and i would getting married, is that you can't undo. So if you move down there, this is a disaster. It stinks.

She's an ER nurse. She'll have a job tomorrow, right? Anywhere. He can go get another job as an EMT, right? So we're going to do the next right thing in front of us, not over-dramatize. What's going to happen in 10 years? Nobody knows. Nobody knows.

We're going to do the next right thing. Beautifully said. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. We got to kick off the year with a little pep on our step. And to do that, we have a very special couple on the debt-free stage. Steve and Katie are with us. How you guys doing? Great. Where are you guys from? Peoria, Illinois.

Wonderful. And all the way here to do a debt-free scream. How much did you pay off? $214,000. Woo. How long did that take? Wow. Eight months. Okay. There's a story here. What was your range of income during that time? We started at $331,000 and finished this year at $391,000. Woo.

Wow. What do you do for a living? I'm in sales. this year at $391,000. Wow. What do you do for a living? I'm in sales. And I stay at home with the kids. Excellent. That's beautiful. We love to see that. You're clearly very good at sales.

Okay. So let's talk about this. What type of debt was the 214? It was our home. Okay. We're looking at weird people, John. This is wild. You guys aren't old enough to have a paid-for home.

Well, thank you. Oh, my goodness. Okay, so we got to go back a long eight months ago. You guys had this mortgage sitting around, and you decided, let's knock this out. What happened? What got you on this journey? Well, it actually started for us 15 years ago. We were buried in debt.

I had a good friend of mine who reached out to us and sent us a copy of the Total Money Makeover. Katie read it right away. She became Davish, and I was so hopeless at the time. I put the book in the closet, didn't touch it for two years. Two years later, I started to read the book, and it was the first time that I actually had hope that we could get out of debt and get on track. So we started budgeting and put a plan together. And thanks be to God, he is so generous and so faithful that as we started managing money the way that he wanted, it seemed like he just blessed us with more money to manage. So fast forward to last year, our oldest is 17. And we started talking about, could we have the house paid off before she went off to college? And so we've just started

talking about that. So for me, a little over a year ago, I had through prayer and promptings from the Holy Spirit, started to feel like this mortgage is such a weight on our shoulders. Like, why are we not just getting rid of this? And there had been a couple opportunities for us to give, and I wanted to give more, and we just didn't have that ability. And I had this whisper in my heart from God just saying, you know, if you didn't have that mortgage, you could have given more. And so I started crunching some numbers. And we talked to Steve. We had a couple meetings together.

And I was like, I think we can do this. And if we just really buckle down and get really focused. And we thought we could do it in 12 months. That's what we thought it would take. And God is just so generous. Once we got started, we got really laser focused and we were able to do it in eight instead of 12. And I have to give a lot of credit to our daughters because we did tell them what we were doing. We had a meeting with them at the beginning and said, this is what we're going to do. This is the amount of money. This is how long we think it's going to take. And they were on board. They said that they were willing to make the sacrifices too.

So, and they, I thought if you told your kids, no, they just, they spontaneously combust. Ours are still here. Wow. And you got four girls. Yes. How old is the youngest? Nine. So how did the nine-year-old react? Did they have the biggest reaction of, okay, how does this affect me? Or was there none of that? They were like, all right, sounds cool. I'm in. Well, we promised them a vacation at the end of it.

Yeah, we dangled a little carrot. There we go. We all had some incentive here. Wow. So what is the principle and interest that you've now freed up every single month for the rest of your life? Are we talking a few thousand bucks? Yeah.

It was 2,700. Oh my goodness. For the rest of your life? Are we talking a few thousand bucks? Yeah, it was $2,700. Oh my goodness. For the rest of your life. Yeah. That's some good living given like no one else. It just comes on, right? Yes.

Wow. That's an exciting phase. As your first heads off to college, you guys are living a little easier now. You got a spare bedroom and you got some spare money in the budget. Absolutely. Absolutely.

How does this – it's easy to get complacent in your marriage when you're making great money. You're an amazing – you're a great team, right? Somebody's staying at home. Somebody's out there making money. You got four amazing, beautiful, wonderful daughters. Things are cooking along. This is, in my experience when couples wake up and their second kids going to college and they look at each other like i don't

know you yeah and so there's something about this moment that y'all picked this moment specifically to re-engage a hard goal together what has this meant for your marriage doing a hard thing midstream right and just to be like, you want to do something crazy? Let's pay the house off. Tell me about the impact this has had on your marriage. It's been wonderful. It's really taught us to communicate with each other. We discuss all of our purchases.

We have monthly date nights. Yeah, I think it's kept us, the communication was key. It's kept us close. I think it's good to have these goals. You know, even going forward, we're going to have goals, goals for giving, you know, goals for our children, you know, setting aside money for their college education. And, you know, we're really focused on changing our family tree and making sure that they don't go into their 20s with what we went into our 20s with.

Did friends and family know about this? Like, are they weirded out? Did it feel like a personal attack that you guys have been so successful at this? Was it awkward to talk about? Well, we actually have some family here today, and we have friends that we've actually brought along on the journey and introduced to financial peace. And Katie and I get pretty competitive and they started paying their homes off and so we thought we we need to get on board too

yeah that's true friendship right there yeah we took a call earlier and they're like hey I feel awkward because you know we're in this phase of life and you guys have surrounded yourself with people who actually want to see you in who want us you know cheer you want to support you and there's nothing cooler than when you guys as Yoda, you bring in Luke Skywalker, and then they're like, we're going to go ahead and pay our house off. And you're like, oh, crap.

We're just getting past. We've got to get on it too, man. Yes. It's amazing. What's the house worth? $500,000. Woo! And how much do you guys have in your nest eggs?

Well, yeah, we did the calculation right before we came here. It's a little over $700,000 in investments in cash. Wow. Baby steps millionaires just like that. And i'm not putting your ages out there i assume she's still in her 20s you look like you're at 40 max yeah you're my close 45 there we go yeah and here you are no mortgage payment the rest of your life ahead of you just all margin to live and give like no one else so you're taking them on vacation. You're going to give more. Anything else you're doing to celebrate or kind of upgrade life and have a good time? Well, this weekend we have an Airbnb in downtown Franklin, which we love downtown Franklin.

It's so cute and quaint. And so that's our part of our celebration. Treat yourself. Yeah. We're going to some nice restaurants. Good. Good. Eat well, Franklin.

It's awesome. What would you tell a couple right now that's just coasting? Their marriage is good. They're making fine money. What would you tell them? I would tell them that once the debt is gone, you just don't realize the weight that is lifted off your shoulders. It's just a great feeling.

And you don't realize it until it happens. And can I ask, did you guys have a low interest rate on this thing? We did. We did two and a quarter. And you paid it off anyways. You know how not optimal that is financially? You could have invested in Bitcoin or something, but now it's 0%.

There we go. Take that. How's that for your interest rate? We always tell people, Hey, if you hate it, pay it off and try it and then go take a HELOC out and you can have that. But yeah, has there been a second you've regretted it? We always tell people, hey, if you hate it, pay it off and try it, and then go take a HELOC out, and you can have that. But has there been a second you've regretted it?

Not one. No. No. I've never one time heard somebody say, I shouldn't have paid that house off. I've never heard that one time. Right. Amazing. Y'all are absolutely amazing.

You want to get the girls up here? Are they going to be a part of this with you? Let's get them up. What are their names and ages? Adeline is 17. Eleanor, 9. Sophia is 14. And Vivian, 15.

Beautiful. Beautiful family. We've got a couple of Every Dollar One Year subscriptions to give you guys that you can use. You can pass it on to kickstart someone else's Baby Step Millionaire journey. You guys ready for it? Have they been practicing? We have. All right, here we go. We've got Steve and Katie,

Adeline, Vivian, Sophia, Eleanor. $214,000 paid off, house and everything in eight months, making $331,000 to $391,000. Count it down, guys. Let's hear a debt-free scream. To God we give the glory. Three, two, one.

We're debt-free! Woo! Yeah! three two one we're debt free yeah it's that simple and it's that hard John the simple part is just choosing hey what if we didn't what would that be like the hard part is then going alright every month we gotta be disciplined we gotta be

focused we gotta be intentional because there's a lot riding on this. And we sat down with our kids and said, here's what we're going to do. Are y'all into? We think y'all can handle it. And their kids said, we're in. It's amazing. No secrets.

Everything is different for that family now. And more is coughed and taught. Those girls will never forget that. They're going to be living and giving like no one else, too. So proud of you guys. This is The Ramsey Show. Rachel, do you ever get these sketchy text messages that are like, hey, you need to update your address and verify so we can get you the package you didn't order? Yes, I have, George. Sketchy and never trust them. And that's why we

recommend Delete.me. They help with that. Yeah, they do. Delete.me actually goes in and removes your information from data broker websites, and it is an incredible service that everyone needs. And there's a lot of shady companies out there that solely exist to sell your personal data to bad guys. And that means your info, like your email address, your home address, your kids' names, your name, everything is just out there for scammers and spammers to find. That's right. And then once they remove your information, then they're going to send you a detailed report telling you where they found your information, when they removed it, how many hours they've saved you. I mean, it is incredible. So detailed and it's beautiful. I love these reports. So far, get this, they've reviewed 27,000 listings on my behalf, removed me from 240 data broker sites and saved

me 77 hours of time. It's incredible. Absolutely amazing. And Winston and I now get fewer texts, weird emails, spam calls, all of it. I love it. So you got to be sure to check them out. Ramsey fans get 20% off their annual plans. Just go to joindeleteeme.com slash Ramsey. That comes out to less than nine bucks a month. Super affordable. It's amazing. So again, that's joindeleteeme.com slash Ramsey. Make sure to check it out, you guys. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Derek's up next in Norfolk, Virginia.

What's going on, Derek? Hey, George and Dr. John. Thanks for having me on the show. I appreciate it. Yeah, what's your question? So getting right to it, so basically I used to have life insurance through, I wanted to get term life insurance independent of my work. Smart. So I went through Xander as my broker, and I got approved for a policy.

Actually, I already signed for it, but I'm still within the grace period. I can still give back. But the question is, so my life insurance policy to work was the premium was $10.50 a month, $10.50. My premium for the policy that I got through Zando is $120 a month. And that's just due to my, technically my BMI qualifies me as underweight, even though my PCP isn't concerned about it like it's a normal weight for me. So my question was, due to the increase in premium, is the change from my life insurance through work to the other policy, really worth it. I don't know that they're apples to apples, so I'm wary on trying to compare them. I'm guessing the policy through your work doesn't have a big face value. What's the policy worth?

So the $1050,000 was a $210,000 buy-up, but my employer actually covered an additional $271,000. So it was, what's that, $481,000 total? Yes, sir. Okay, and what's the Zander policy? So it's a 20-year term, $1.25 million policy with the child rider. Do you see why it's not apples to apples? You're talking triple the amount of face value. Yes, sir.

So I know there's some sticker shock when you see 120 versus 10, but the thing to remember is that 480, I'm guessing, what's your household income or your income? So my income, my wife is staying at home with her daughter. So my income from my primary job is 90, right in the ballpark of 93,000 annually. Perfect. And then I have a side gig that boosts me up to like maybe 110 annually. Awesome.

And so our philosophy on this is that you want 10 to 12 times your annual income in term life. And so that 1.25, you're right on track there. I think that's the right amount for you. If you wanted to scale it back to.25, you're right on track there. I think that's the right amount for you. If you wanted to scale it back to a million, you'd probably be fine there. And the goal here is to become self-insured when this policy runs out. So 20 years from now, your life looks very different. You've been investing for 20 years. You've got the house paid off long before then. So your family would be okay if something happened to you once the policy expires. But in the meantime,

if, God forbid, something happened and you've got a stay-at-home mom with no income now, that's scary, isn't it? For sure. And so that's why I will pay the $120 for the peace of mind all day long. We spend $120 on stupider stuff in America. That's very true. My only hesitation was so when I first applied for the policy, I chose the preferred plus health class just because my cholesterol, my blood pressure, everything was in line with that health class. Then in that premium was like 20 bucks a month, which was kind of in line with what I was used to paying. But then the underwriters took a look at my BMI and they bumped me down to standard plus and that's what- Oh, that's what got you a little higher. Well, it may be worth, I don't know if there's an appeal process or if your doctor can write a letter back and say, no, I've been following my patient forever. He's good to go. Because my

guess is a lot of those underwriters just look at an actuary table and say, boom, boom, boom, there you go. That's right. Yeah. But it's definitely worth trying to follow the appeal and try to get a better rate. But at the end of the day right now, I'd get something in place. Yeah, and there's nothing, I've found few, I'll say few things, maybe nothing, but a few things in my life makes my wife have more peace

when we sit down and go over, hey, if I were to die today, here's what happens. We have this much money in life insurance. We have this here, and there's just a piece in the house. I'm paying that 120 all day, every day. That's right. Hey, when this segment ends, folks, if you're watching on YouTube, you're listening on podcast,

the show, as you know, it will be over. But if you want to catch the next hour, jump over to the Ramsey Network app. It's the only place to get full episodes of the show. You can download the Ramsey Network app for free. We've got a link in the show notes or just search Ramsey Network app in your app store. If you're on radio, stay tuned. The show will continue. Today's question of the day is brought to you by YRefi. YRefi refinances defaulted private student loans and builds a custom loan based on your ability to pay. You'll have a payment you can afford with a low fixed interest rate that you couldn't get anywhere else to help you stick to your budget

and work that debt snowball. So go check them out. YRefi.com slash Ramsey. That's the letter Y, R-E-F-Y.com slash Ramsey may not be available in all states. Question comes from Hunter in North Carolina. My wife and I have a bi-weekly budget meeting. During this time, we talk about finances, goals, and direction, and we usually leave this conversation unified and excited. One of the agreements we have as a couple is if there are any surprises that come up that we didn't budget for, we need to communicate with each other before making a purchase. Two to three times a week, I find out by looking at our bank account that my wife has made an unbudgeted purchase without communicating with me. Over time, this has eroded trust and has hurt our relationship.

And when I try to have a conversation about how this makes me feel, she tells me to stop talking and to leave her alone. I don't know what to do. So I'd say number one, you need to own reality. And that means you guys aren't unified. Unified is not a feeling. It's an action. It's a way of being. You can feel excited and like, oh, rah, rah, after conversation. But unity is people working together towards a common goal, right? Y'all are not unified. And this, George, is not about spending. This is about saying, hey, we made an agreement and then someone acting like a child, a wah-wah baby child. Don't talk to me and running away. I'm taking my balls and I'm going home, right? That's what needs to be discussed here

because I promise you this is not only happening about budget purchases. She treats him this way on everything or he's a nag and he's always nagging about it. Either way, you only need to get beneath this thing and here's a quick tip. When you sit down, don't say, you keep running away. Always use the word I.

I don't feel like I'm doing a good job communicating how scared I am that we come up with these agreements and then we walk away and everything we agreed on isn't upheld. And I don't know what, I don't know how to communicate with you when I try to talk to you about it.

For some reason, I set you off, you're out. I don't know what to do about that, but I'm struggling here. And usually eye commerce beginning an eye conversation is an invitation it's not a fight versus a shutdown attack you did that when you start with you then like i'm just my finger automatically points at you right like you and it's a declaration of war i have to fight you now right now instead of an exclamation let's put a question mark and dig into

hey what's going on here like i'm seeing these purchases here's that here's the theme i'm seeing tell me if i'm wrong what's going on what can i do to help create some guardrails so that we can actually stick to the budget but but i mean but you have to have the conversation deep in the budget on this one because this is about a either a husband who thinks he's being clearer than he is or a wife that is just, will do his stupid little budget meetings and then she goes on about her life and could give two craps what they've agreed on. And is this a dollar or is it a hundred each time?

That also makes a difference. But getting to the root of it, then we can go, okay, here's what we're doing next as far as the budget goes. And if you're nagging over $5 that she spends, increase her personal, like her fun money, and just call it what it is and move on with your life. If it's something big, at the end of the day,

y'all need to have this conversation anyway. Absolutely. Hey, that puts this hour of The Ramsey Show in the books. If you want to catch the next one, if you're on YouTube or podcast, jump over to the Ramsey Network app to continue the party. This has been The Ramsey Network app to continue the party. This has been The Ramsey Show. Live from Ramsey Network, this is The Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love,

and create amazing relationships. I'm George Campbell, joined by bestselling author Dr. John Deloney, and we're taking your calls at 888-825-5225. You jump into the conversation. We'll talk about your life, your money, your relationships, your mental health. I'm a best-selling author, but more importantly, I'm your good friend. That's true. You always introduce me as your good friend, John Deloney. I'm trying to manifest it.

You're speaking it into the world? Yeah. I saw a picture of me on your vision board that you have by your office. Most people don't know that. George keeps a huge bulletin board. vision board that you have by your office. Most people don't know that. George keeps a huge bulletin board. I'm just learning I have an office. Well, it's a cubicle next to Ken Coleman and Rachel Cruz. It's between them.

But that's a special prison. But your big cork board that you have with like your third pug dog or whatever weird French bulldog. It's a French bulldog, but thank you. French bulldog, same thing. Just some mushed up dog. But like you have like these things that you have on. But you have big picture of me and so i appreciate you manifesting it and i'm going to try to be your friend this year that means a lot that's one of my new year's resolutions hey we did a comedy show together last night so it was fun that's one step to friendship it was

one step to friendship good times thank you lauren is wondering why we're not going to her so we're going to go to you lauren she's in dallas. She knows why because we're friends. What's up, Lauren? Hi, how are you? Could not be better. What's up? So I was just calling to get a little bit of advice. So I've been with my boyfriend for a little over two and a half years. Gross.

Why won't he marry you? Just kidding. I'm telling you. I know, right? You're like, I know, right? That was uncalled for. Okay. So y'all been together for two and a half years.

What's up? Yeah. So we live together, actually, and he just built a house, and we kind of made all the decisions together. But the house is his. The mortgage is his. Obviously, I'm not on the deed because we're not married. So recently we've been having some conversations about what things will look like in the future if we do get married.

And he is very adamant that I am not ever going to be on the gate to the house. I'll never be on the mortgage or anything like that. And he wants me to pay him rent. Lauren, Lauren, Lauren, Lauren, do not marry this person. I'm being totally serious. Either this person is not, this person's been watching a ton of Instagram reels and YouTube reels about bros, or this person doesn't understand the full nature and commitment of being married to somebody. I'm being super serious. What was his reasoning when he said you'll never be on the deed or mortgage? We have a 12-year age gap, and I think that he's worried that I'm with him for his money. And, um, let me preface with saying like, I'm a nurse practitioner. I do very well for myself. I don't need him for his money.

You can prove it to him. Just leave. Yeah. Yeah. So he just thinks that, um, he's scared that I'm going to marry him and take everything from him, which is not how that works. But, um, that's his main thing. And he said he's worked his whole life to have all the things that he has and he doesn't want to be in a position where someone can take those things from him. I honor that and good for him. You can't bring somebody in to a one plus one equals one, right?

Into where a combined, like, because otherwise y'all are just going to be really sophisticated, quasi romantic roommates. And if you have a partner who's telling you on the front end, I will never go all in on you ever. I worked too hard to get here. I'm not going all in on you. You can come live in my house under my rules and pay me rent, but I'm never going all in on you because I can't risk the other side of this thing. If it goes sideways, if that's the case, you're worth more than that.

And I wanted this person to have their peace. I want him to have the peace that he desperately is hanging on to. Good for him. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? This is what I would tell my sister. So I tell my daughter like and i would tell him the same thing and by the way if he has a huge let's say he's got five

million dollars right and you're a nurse practitioner you're doing fine but he's rich okay then i don't have any problem with somebody getting married like doing a prenup at that level because even if it's not about you you might have some weird cousin that suddenly falls down in his front yard over christmas i totally get that it's fine that's a different conversation to have but on the way out the door just that idea is like oh we're gonna walk down the aisle but you're never gonna be we're never gonna be fully entwined here man that is red flag on top of red flag this is six red flags over texas i'm not going to that well played well played i'm not doing it so here's truthfully what i would do in your shoes this is not to be mean to him i would find your own place and if the relationship can't survive that it probably

wasn't going to survive right but that'll prove to him at least hey i'm not in it for the money and you're not giving him this weird rent money that's going toward his equity that you'll never touch it just removes this whole awkward yeah flip. Flip the other side of it. What are you? You're putting everything on the line. Exactly. Right. And by the way,

the state of Texas, um, their marriage laws, he thinks he's not like he would have another, another thing coming to him. Right. If things go inside, you're getting half the house regardless.

Right. So, um, you call this for a reason and you're smart. The stuff we're telling you, you know in your nervous system, don't you? Yes. Has there been a conversation that y'all needed to have for a long time? Yeah.

I mean, it's a conversation we have frequently and it just never really gets resolved. But you're expecting him to give you that resolution when that resolution is probably going to come from the inside out what what are you nervous on the other side of oh i mean it's just a long relationship and i guess i was hoping it would end differently how old are you i'm 27 okay and he's uh about 40 39 very careful 39 not 40 not 40 30 i'll tell you this i know that there's a sunk cost fallacy with relationships where you're like i put so much i don't want to like it's an roi if i have to open another dating app i'm gonna like i i get it like it's not fun to have to redo all of this, but I'm telling you, Lauren,

you are worth more than what he is giving you in this relationship. Yeah. And I think that, I'm not telling you, I don't think George is telling you, like, don't go call him today and be like, these guys on the podcast told me to dump your butt, so I'm not, don't do that. But I do think it's worth sitting down in the same way that he is bravely, and I guess I would even go as far as say honorably telling brazenly you will yeah brazenly is a better word um I will

never risk everything I've worked for for another person ever I'm not gonna do that I do think it's worth you sitting down maybe with a trusted friend with a therapist somebody and articulating all right here's the things that I'm not gonna cash in on either because my guess is this guy's a pretty great guy he's fun to be around you love him right he does the he does the things right and um there's just this one thing and that is no he's got an inner circle that you will never get into and god bless him for telling you up front yeah but i think you have a an obligation to yourself and to any future marriage y'all end up having together to say right hey i'm worth more than this too though i'm not going to marry somebody that tells me on day one yeah you're only getting 70 of me just know that right you

know what i'm saying yeah because you throw kids in the mix you throw a new job you throw job loss you throw loss of parents you throw cancer you throw something big into this um somebody who's already has kept one foot out of the boat gets out of that whole boat real real fast when those things when the storms come and the storms will always come it's the old quote when someone tells you who they are believe them yeah this is this just turns into well he won't share a bank account with me y'all are going to be that couple venmoing each other back for chilies. I just don't think that's a life. That's not what you want.

Get a roommate at that point. But this is going to be a tough conversation. I hope this relationship works out. Truly, we're not trying to get you out of this. I really do, man. I hope he goes, you know what, I don't want to lose you. It's a big red flag, and this will be a turning point in the relationship either way. But putting your name on the mortgage, on both of y'all's name on the mortgage,

that's step one of building a long-term relationship together. Step one. Thanks for the call, Lauren. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. I'm George Campbell, joined by Dr. John Deloney. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Zach is up next in Houston, or as John calls it, H-Town, which I think is cool.

It's kind of the insider lingo. Zach, welcome to the show. Hey, thank you so much, guys. How are y'all? Doing great. How are you? Man, I'm better than I deserve. Love to hear it. Hey, so I hope you guys are sitting down for this one because it's kind of a doozy. So I have been listening to you guys since probably 2019, but I was stupid enough a couple

years ago to go get a car loan for a 20% interest rate, and I have about $30,500 on on it and it's only worth $19,900. So I have about $11,000-ish in negative equity. And I'm about to get married here in February on Valentine's Day and I'm just trying to figure out what I need to do to stop the bleeding before, you know, I mean, obviously, if I can, before we get married and then if not, just the quickest way to get out of this mess that I'm in. So just wanted to call you guys and get some advice. Yikes. Well, I'm glad Dave's not here.

What little hair he has left might have just fallen out just hearing that. I was going to say, if we tell you our advice, you're not going to do it anyway, are you? No, I'm going to. I really, really want to get out of this mess. All right, how long have you been listening to this show? Since 2019, and I've actually gotten rid of a lot of my other debt. It's just the car that I don't know why I can't really get the grip of it. All right. We're going to Missy Elliott this.

We're going to slap it up, flip it, reverse it, and I want you to tell us what we would tell you to do since you've been listening to this show for so long. I think the right thing to do is to try and get a loan to cover the negative equity and then also try to find a way to get a car. That's just kind of what I think, but I'm not sure if there's another way. And, you know, I have bad credit, so I'm not sure if I can even get a personal loan for, you know, that $11,000. So I just was curious if maybe I should just keep grinding and pay it off or, I mean, you know, that $11,000. So I just was curious if maybe I should just keep grinding and

pay it off or, I mean, you know, just pay double if I can or whatever. But... Yeah, that's option one. The key is you need to find the negative equity and that either needs to be money that you save up or it needs to be a loan that you get from your local credit union, you know, with better terms so that you lessen the debt so that you get out faster. That's the goal. Okay. I don't know that you're going to be faster. That's the goal. Okay. I don't know that you're going to be able to do that in a single month. I don't know what your situation is with this wedding coming up. Are there any expenses you have as part of this wedding,

or is that all covered? Thankfully, we've been blessed to where her parents are paying for it. And what's your income for the year? I make about $60,500. Okay. So you're right on the line. We recommend no more than half your income tied up in things with wheels and motors. I would suggest you are way overbounds just with your situation. But do you want to keep the car, or do you want to get rid of this and drive something cheap? If I can get rid of it, I will.

But, I mean, I don't have a car otherwise, so I think I might have to keep it at least for a little bit. What is it? It's a Toyota RAV4. Okay. You're gaining empathy from John. Yeah. I thought you were going to say like a Raptor or like a jacked-up Jeep, and then we were going to let you have it. No, I wish it was something cool.

It's just a RAV4. And why did you buy it at 20%? Did you get off some lot? Well, my other car had engine problems, and it was a Ford Escape, and they turned me away at first, and then they brought me back in and said we can do it, and I was like, well, I don't really want to fix the engine. And I was really, really dumb, and I just signed away, and it was really stupid. What's your monthly payment?

$860,000. God almighty! Yeah. And what's your take-home pay? Take-home pay a month is, I think, around $3,300 after deductions and all that stuff. Do you live in this RAV4 in the back? It is pretty spacious. I wish. I wish I did. I'm actually just signed an apartment with my fiance and we're moving in this Friday. What does she make?

She actually works for Crew, so she's a missionary working on college campuses. So she makes about $28,000 a year off of donations. She actually works for Cruz, so she's a missionary working on college campuses. So she makes about $28,000 a year off of donations. All right, here's the reality. One and or both of y'all are going to have to get a different job for a season to pay this mess off. Yeah. And there's just not, I mean, there's just, she marrying you, coming into this situation, this debt becomes her debt. It delays your dream.

If her dream is to be a missionary, her dream just got delayed. Which is fine. By signing up for this ride. Yeah. But she's going to have to do her missionary work and make $28,000 and Uber in the mornings and throw boxes and drive for Amazon in the nights and on the weekends until this thing is paid off. Luckily, she's allowed to increase her pay by asking for more donations. So that's something we're planning on doing once the whole wedding stuff is over is over yeah and maybe what i'm about to say is wrong and it's okay if i don't mind being wrong i'm wrong a lot i don't know that her going to ask donors

to increase her salary to pay off your ridiculous rav4 purchase like there's like if she's going to go ask for more money i want that to go towards helping students who are struggling yeah and maybe that's me parsing whatever and maybe people are listening being like that's bullcrap fine i would rather see you two work your butts off because otherwise you're not going to learn this lesson if she can get on the phone and make some phone calls and someone's going to pay off your stupidity i don't like that i want you guys to you've felt this but you haven't earned it back. I want you to go sweat it out. What do you do for a living? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so I work for a company called Insperity. I'm in, uh, sales operations and been there for about three years and I love

the company. So, okay. But it might be that you guys start working on weekends, dude. Yeah. Yeah. Until you get this thing paid off. You can, you can make some extra money and get this thing done. So if you can't get a loan from your credit union, you need to go save up 11 grand real fast. Real fast. Berserker style. Like two grand a month, you got it in less than six months

and then we get rid of this car, we have the negative equity so that we can get a clean title, get it to the new owner, you're out of this. And that might mean we go down to being a one-car family for a while right we'll have to figure that out and you have to wake up at 6 30 in the morning to get her to the office so that you can get yourself to your office and whatever you got to do yeah i i don't i don't i don't

personally this everyone's life is their own i don I don't like her going to ask for more donations towards a ministry that's just going to funnel back to pay for her new husband's ding-dong RAV4 purchase. Yep, I agree, and I have that same thought, and yeah, I hear you. Could she put a pause on this and go get a full-time job when you guys are married? Not necessarily, but I know I can work extra and do things on the side to kind of help with that, with my stupidity. Do you guys have any other debt between the two of you? She has about $13,000 in student loans. Okay. What's the plan to pay that off? That snowball.

Okay. I would do a budget. Have you guys done a budget together for what your income will be and what your bills will be? Yes, yes. What does that look like? How much money is actually left over to throw at them? About $200. that look like how much money is actually left over to throw at that about 200 but 500 of it is saving so really about you know maybe 700 of it left over well we're not doing any savings no savings we got a thousand bucks starter emergency fund everything else goes to debt bro zero savings

that's like you're treading water in the middle of the ocean because your boat sank actually you shot a hole in your boat and it sank and you you are buying curtains for your condo on the beach. Like, first thing you got to do, bro, is get to shore. And you guys are going to have $43,000 in debt between the two of you. We need more than $700 to throw at this thing if we want to be paying it off within two years. Right now, you're more on like a seven-year plan to get rid of this debt. I think you guys are worth more than that as a newlywed couple. And that seven years, no new cars, staying in the tiny apartment you just signed a lease on,

no kids, right? All these things that I know you all have dreamed about. If you all get radical for 24 months, you can transform this entire trajectory. She can be a missionary for as long as she wants. Right now, honestly, if she was on the phone, I would tell her, George, she can't afford to be a missionary at $28,000 because she chose to take on $13,000 student loans. And by doing that, she chose for her future self, you can't do the job you're called to do or even want to do until you pay off this debt because you told them you'd pay them back. I know that stinks, dude. I know that's like super deflating, man, but I don't know. That's tough, George. There's no easy answers on that one. But I guess compartmentalize it

and enjoy the wedding in a month. That's tough. Like, man. You've heard those old, we're going to live on love. Y'all are going to live on love, man. Yeah, you want to go into this thing bright-eyed, bushy-tailed instead of your tail between your legs. But can I say this? If you're marrying somebody new and they've made some mistakes financially

and they start working seven days a week for the first year of your marriage, that's somebody I want to be married to because they're going to make mistakes and they're going to do what it takes to make it right down the road. That's good character. Get after it, my brother. We like to fight. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show. George Campbell here, joined by Dr. John Deloney. There's a lot that goes into buying and selling your home, and all those decisions, it can be overwhelming, but you shouldn't have to tackle the process alone. And that's why we created Ramsey's Real

Estate Home Base. This is the place with all the tools and resources you need to get prepared to buy or sell your home with confidence. We've got calculators, start to finish guides, how-to articles, a podcast, a book, and even a video course all packed with actionable steps to help you navigate the buying and selling process. If you're ready to take those steps, go check it out, ramsaysolutions.com slash real estate, or click the link in the description if you're listening on YouTube or podcast. John is up next in Monterey, California. What's going on, John? Hey, guys. Really appreciate you having me on. Absolutely. How can John and I help? Well, I just want to get kind of a scope of

how on track I am. I have a feeling I'm doing pretty good. The problem is that I'm just a really nervous investor, like sending my money out. I've always been a saver my whole life, and that's what's put me in a decent shape but i'm kind of nervous on what next step to go and i'd like to give you some of my numbers and then sure you can help hopefully you guys can help me on my next step all right so i'm about to pay off my house i have a few more payments in the next couple of months. Way to go. In California, nonetheless. You know, I was really lucky, again, saving all my life. I was able to make a 26% down payment and just tackle that right away.

We can all agree luck had very little to do with it. John showed up every day and put money into that account and worked his tail off. Yeah, yeah, for sure. But, you know, I also bought it in 2014 when the market was very low. Anyways, so I have about $115K in high-yield savings. I have an old employer's 401K that's around $85K. I can't contribute into that anymore, but it's just kind of building on its own because at the moment I cannot roll it into my new jobs for one K just yet. Okay. Um, I have a Roth IRA with, um, 12,000.

I'm going to put an extra seven7,000 this year, and I make about $68,000 right now. So, same on the verge that I have a high savings. I have a 401k that I'm contributing to. My new 401k, I'm putting in 15% as well. Good. Is it a Roth 401k? I believe so. I'd have to look it up. Okay.

I'd check on that. And if they have a Roth option, I would do all 15% there. Yeah. So this, the way it works is that I actually, it's a split contribution, so I was able to put my 15% into a Roth, and then my boss's match goes into a traditional. Yep. Yeah. That makes sense.

I just looked it up. It is going into a Roth. Good. Okay, and you make $68K. You've got a lot of good things going on. The question is, why do you have so much in that high-yield yield savings account what's the goal with that money uh there's no goal as i said i've always been a very anxious investor and always a saver like i i didn't just what if it all goes down john deloney can relate hey oh yeah hey but there's i wouldn't i would say you're not off

the path here i mean if your question, am I doing the right things? What should I improve on? I think you're spot on. Investing, I would just want to have a goal for that high-yield money. Other than an emergency fund, maybe invest that money. Well, that's really where my question is going, is kind of a direction on how to invest. As I said, I didn't come up with a lot of money like so many more of us listeners,

and so I didn't really have those lessons. So that's why I have such a high-yield savings account because it's always been like a safety blanket for me, and letting go of it is very difficult, like so many of us. Hey, can I just tell you, though, dude, you're amazing. Yeah, I appreciate that. Like, you have figured this stuff out intuitively we laugh sometimes because it's like we sell common sense that's what built this this dave ramsey's like humongous empire is and what you're doing doesn't get views on tiktok when they're like how'd you do it you're like i just saved

money i make 65 grand and i'm a millionaire and i've got 115 grand in the bank you know how many americans don't have 115 000 in the bank? Millions and millions and millions and millions and millions of them. You're in the 0.001%. So just like no, you've got some things to learn. Cool. We all do, but you are amazing, dude. And it's an honor to talk to you, brother. It's really cool. So beyond your six month emergency fund and that high yield savings, I would use that money to pay down your house early. And then you can invest even more than 15%. So I would have a goal, hey, what if I can max out my 401k this year? What if I can also max out a Roth IRA? And then on top of that, remember not to have a flat tire. Investing is savings great. I think you're on the path to be

a multimillionaire, but don't forget to also enjoy life. Spend some of it. Give a lot of it. That helps you avoid that flat tire. But it's a great question. I'm going to send you our investing guide. Go to ramsaysolutions.com slash guide. Our team created a very thorough but easy to understand guide that I think will give you some confidence, John. Thanks for the call.

Up next, we're going to go to another John in H-Town. H-Town! What's going on, John? Hey, how's it going, guys? What's up? All right, so I unfortunately was divorced back in June. I did get a settlement from our home. There weren't any kids involved.

It was just her and I. So I got a settlement for about $30,000 that I got just a couple of months ago. I left the relationship roughly two and a half years ago. So a good portion of that beginning relationship was, or when I left, a good portion of that was still helping out paying for the home amongst other bills. I was couch surfing in that time. So I left with maybe like $1,200 in credit card debt.

But I mean, as of now, I'm at like $25,000. So I was wondering if I should just take that settlement that I got and just knock everything out. I'll have about $2,500, maybe $3,000 left over. And then I have about $11,000, maybe $11,500 left on a vehicle after that. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I would debt snowball this if I were in your shoes, which means you're going to look at the smallest next balance on your debts and attack that first. Okay. And then whatever's left, you've got a starter emergency fund. So let's leave a thousand bucks

aside. We're going to knock this out pretty quickly. What's your income? Sorry, you broke up on us, John. 65. 65. Can you hear me now? Yes on us, John. 65? 65. Can you hear me now? Yes. Yes, sir. So you've got 30.

You've got 25 on the credit cards. What's left on the car loan? 11? 11. We lost you again. Okay, 11.5. All right, so we're talking about 41.5 total. You've got 30 coming in.

So you'll have another 11 to go, and you'll knock that out pretty quickly using the debt snowball method, just attacking everything you can on top of the minimum payment, throw extra at the next smallest debt. Okay. And then the next step after this vehicle is done is six months. Is that correct? Three to six months of expenses saved up in that fully funded emergency fund. And that's kind of your I'm never going into debt again insurance plan. You become your own credit card. Okay.

You don't need a bank. You don't need the credit card. You have the money. So you never need to go into debt again. That's the goal of that emergency fund on top of having the right insurances in place. And that's going to set you up, man. You've been through a lot. And so right now we're trying to just rebuild a foundation.

So you don't need to do anything drastic. What you need to do is just get some peace and calm. And that means owing nobody anything. And that means renting for a while. That means we're not going to go out to eat. We're going to make some sacrifices in our lifestyle so that we can do this. My guess is you can do this in eight months. Does that sound about right?

Yeah. And I'm looking for a second job also. I was going to say, yeah, you could suck it up and be this in eight months. Does that sound about right? Yeah, and I'm looking for a second job also. I was going to say, yeah, you can suck it up and be done in four months. Yeah, you've done it three months, dude. Just call it. Yeah, and then work on a 20% down payment for a home. Dude, I love that plan. Absolutely.

How old are you? About 35. Okay, you're exactly my age, which tells me you've got a lot of life ahead of you, man. And I'm sorry you went through what you went through, but now we've got to look at what's the next chapter look like for John. How does John move forward? Thanks for the call, man. Sorry you were breaking up on us there.

I'm also going to send you a copy of my book, Breaking Free from Broke, and a copy of John's latest book, Building a Non-Anxious Life, I think both of those will give you a roadmap to rebuilding. Rebuilding financially, emotionally, relationally, mentally, all of it. So keep your head high. All the L-Y words. Yes. All of them. Right there. Architecturally, environmentally, just kidding. I love it. Thanks so much for the call, man. This is The Ramsey Show. Welcome back to The Ramsey Show, our scripture of the day. 1 Peter 5, verse 6 and 7.

Humble yourselves, therefore, under God's mighty hand, that he may lift you up in due time. Cast all your anxiety on him, because he cares for you. Mark Twain said, I've had a lot of worries in my life, most of which never happened. Some wisdom right there, John. Yeah, but the ones that do, George, you just never know. I learned it from James. You never know. Producer James has all the wisdom. All of it. It's good stuff. And the worries. All right, let's go out to Tammy in Tulsa. What's going on, Tammy? Tammy in Tulsa. That sounds like on, Tammy? Tammy in Tulsa. That sounds like a TV show.

What's up, Tammy? Yeah, so I have a question. I'm currently almost 60 years old, and we have sold all of my assets to start taking care of stuff, so we have nothing except for two older vehicles. The one is 22 years old. Hold on. What are you taking care of, Tammy? Why are you selling all your assets? So I have credit card debt and parent loan. And then my husband has medical bills from open heart surgery and has heart problems.

And so we're covering the medicines and things like that. And I took a job where I get to, I get free rent, but my income is only 2,800 or 28,000. So basically I'm making $2,000 take home. And then half of that ends up going for his life insurance policy. So my question is, starting over, is it better for me to file bankruptcy? Or what should I go about doing? I've looked for a second job and put out hundreds of applications and only had a couple

interviews, so I don't know if it's the age or what's going on with that. I'm so sorry. You've had a lot of life happen, and you're trying to pick up the pieces now. So let's walk through this. How much do you have in credit card debt? On mine, I have $38,000, and I have a parent loan for roughly $4,800. Okay. And have you talked to the child that loan was for? What was the agreement with this? Yeah. Part of it was the child paid most of that off, but then the money went for other needs. So there's still $48,000 left? No, $4,800. Oh, $4,800.

$4,800. Oh, and you have $3,800 on a credit card? I have $38,000 between four cards. Wow. All right. And then the medical bills? His roughly is $56,000 is what his debt is. Okay.

And how long ago is that? Three years ago. Okay. And then we got some medicine that the insurance doesn't cover, which ends up being roughly $1,000 a month. And currently he still has heart attacks. He is working, but not as much as what he was before. And how much is the life insurance? What's the face value of the policy?

$500,000. Okay. And what are you guys paying for that every month? I pay $1,000 a month. I assume that's a whole life policy that you've had for a long time? Actually, it was a term insurance, and it kept going up in this last year. I chose to convert it to a whole life because the payment was like $30 difference, and it would go up again next year. What do you mean it keeps going up? Because the definition of term is that it's a level payment every single month. Yeah, terms don't go up.

It was a 10-year term. The term ended... So you renewed after 10 years, renewed after 10 years? Correct. Okay. So we kept renewing it, and I can't get him a different life insurance policy because he won't qualify. He's uninsurable. So basically, can I be, if we were in person, I would hold your hand to ask this question, okay?

So can I be real direct? Is that okay? Okay. If he's having multiple heart attacks still, if he's struggling through, are you guys just biting the bullet and paying this $1,000, assuming he's going to pass away in the near future? Because you don't have $1,000 a month.

I know. Basically, everything that we make is going out for debt. So my thought was, okay, do we file bankruptcy and just start fresh so that the money that we're paying for these cards can be set aside. I mean, we have two vehicles that are, one is 22 years old and the other one is basically 19 years old. I don't think it's worth selling those. No, they're not. We just literally spent $5,000 to put an engine in one. Where did you get $5,000? We took it out of the bill money. That's why our cards are maxed out. That's part of it.

Yeah, this one's such a deep mess. I think when you're in this deep, bankruptcy feels like a pass. And before you do anything, we'll hook you up with one of our Ramsey coaches and I'm going to pay for it. Okay. And I want them to go through your budgets and your spending. It sounds like things have spun out and compounded on you. And on top of that, you've got grief.

And on top of that, you've got a husband that you love. That's also not doing well. You've got all the, you have to go back to work. Like you're just looking up at life at 60. And this is not how you guys had it also not doing well. You have to go back to work. You're just looking up at life at 60, and this is not how you guys had it drawn up, right?

Correct. Yeah. And even bankruptcy, you're going to have to pay fees. You're going to have to pay an attorney. It's not cheap. I don't want you to resort to that. Is there any chance, and no parent wants to do this, okay? No parent wants to do this. Is there any chance that and no parent wants to do this, okay? No parent wants to do this.

Is there any chance that you call one of your kids and say, hey, for a season we need to come live with you all? We're struggling right now. The situation with the kids, that won't be an option. Not a good relationship with them or they're not doing well themselves um both okay and there's no chance they'd take on the remainder of your parent plus loan to help you knock it out um no i like i said i had borrowed money from one and i i paid them back but you know like i said it's just kind of month to month trying to rob from Peter to pay Paul, basically. Well, you're in a situation where you need to focus on the four walls.

So we need to take care of Tammy and her husband first, and that means if the credit card company doesn't get paid, whoopee. You've got to put food on the table. So you think about this, four walls is food, your utility bills, your shelter, your rent, and transportation costs. You need to focus on that before anything else gets paid. Those things get covered. And if there's money left over, you can communicate with your debtors to say, here's how much I can do. Have you checked out? And I don't have them off the top of my head, but there should be a social worker at the hospital that did the surgery with your husband there is all

kinds of programs for super excessive pharmaceutical prices have you explored those options no okay I want you to get on the phone and call them and actually go schedule a meeting so you can see them in person

and bring some of your receipts for your pharmaceuticals and say, here's what I'm taking. Here's what we're using. We can't afford this. And without them, my husband passes away. And there are so many programs. It's not a fix-all. It may not help at all, but it may reduce the cost of this prescription by 90%. Who knows? But it's, I mean, you're at this point, you're, you're, you're going to every option, right? Right. Um, I would also recommend, usually it's easier to do this when you have a lump sum of cash, but I would go sit down with the hospital and say, we want to talk about a payment plan. We're old. We're not going to be able to pay this back. And so if we can get on some kind of payment plan, y'all can get some money from us. But I've even put bankruptcy on the table, which wipes out them completely. And possibly seeing if they would settle with you and say, okay, we'll drop this all the way down to X, Y, or Z. And

because of your income, there are some laws in place that protect people of low income with hospital bills, bad debt that's chasing them around. But it's worth sitting down and saying, can we come up with some sort of negotiation here and see if we can collapse that payment way, way, way down. It's a mess, mess, mess. And yeah, you're going to have to get a job. And I hate that for you. And yes, people are probably treating you differently because of your age, but you got to plow ahead, man. You got to get a job. You got to fight, Tammy. So hang on the line. We're going to give to you a financial coaching session with someone from our team that can help you walk through this with some more time. That puts this hour of the Ramsey Show in the books. Thank you to all the

folks in the booth keeping the show afloat, to my co-host, Dr. John Maloney, and to you, America. Before you know it, we will be back. I'll see you next time.