The Ramsey Show - App - Your Only Job Security Is YOU (Hour 2)

Episode Date: September 16, 2019

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🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the made-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Julia is in Maine. Hey, Julia, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Thank you. It's an honor to speak to you, Dave. You too. What's up? So I started listening to you a few months ago and i'm currently on baby step six and i'd love your advice on whether or not i should refinance from a 30 year to a 15 year mortgage or throw some irregular income i'm getting at a 30 year mortgage the only reason you would refinance is if you got a lower interest rate. If you pay

a 30 like a 15, pay the same amount you would have paid on a 15, it'll pay off in exactly 15. Okay, because I can go from a 4.25 interest rate down to a 3.5. Okay, well that's a three quarters of a point savings, and so what is your loan balance? $288,000. Okay. And so we're talking about $2,200 a year savings, okay, in interest by getting rid of this. Now, what would your closing costs be? About $3,000. Okay, so if you take $2,200 in savings per year, $3,000 it costs you. It takes you about a year and a half to break even on having done the refinance. After that, there's

gravy on a biscuit to the tune of about $2,200 a year, right? Yeah. How quickly do you think you'll be paying off the home? Would love to in about four or five years. Okay. So you're going to get about three or four years of savings, about an $8,000 change roughly is what you'll make by doing this if it takes you, say, four years to pay off your – or five years to pay off your mortgage. Yeah.

Just four years at $2,200. Yeah. Just four years at $2,200. Yeah. The one consideration, I know you say you should only do it if it's less than 25% of your income. So I get some short-term rental income, seven out of 12 months a year, which makes everything less than 25% of my income. That's fine. The other five months, it's more. Well, but over the scope of a whole year, it's less. If you averaged it out over a whole year, you said my house payments for a year and my income for a year, you be below 25 yes okay so you're fine you're fine the point is just don't be house poor and you're not house poor anyway you're

paying off the whole stinking thing in five years yeah so you're you're fine you're okay yeah the but you don't do the refinance to go to a 15 year we're doing it because we're saving $2,200 a year, and it only costs us $3,000 to do this. Okay, got it. That's the logic behind what we're doing. Let's say you had a 3.25% already. Well, you would just keep it and pay on it extra, and you'll be done in five years.

And you don't spend the $3,000 in refinance costs then because you're not saving any interest rate due to the refinancing. Good question. Kyle's Weathers. Kyle's in Indiana. Hi, Kyle. How are you? Hi, Dave.

How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Hi. So I've been listening to you for about two months now. And my mother just yesterday offered to sell me our childhood home, basically, that she lives in for $80,000. It's worth about $150,000. And her one condition is to let her fund to turn the garage into an efficiency

apartment, what would you do in the situation? She wants to stay in the garage? Yeah, she wants to basically turn it into an apartment, a small apartment. For her? Yeah. Okay. And how old are you? I'm 29. Okay. And how old are you? I'm 29.

Okay. And how old is your mom? She is 67. Okay. And you're single? Married. Married. What's your wife say?

Desiree. She said what? Oh, no. She said what? Oh, no. She doesn't like the distance to work. Okay. And she doesn't like the distance to her mother-in-law. Well, I mean, I guess that's not.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she found another reason not to have to say it, what I said. Am I wrong? Yeah, probably. Yeah, I think I'm thinking. I mean, it's a special mother-in-law that lives down the hall. I'm just saying.

You got to really have a special mother-in-law live down the hall. Yeah. You do. I mean, now your mama down the hall, that's easy. Your mother-in-law down the hall that's hard i mean it's got to be you can there are i i know i've got some really good friends that the the girl she treats her she thinks her mother-in-law she's closer to her mother-in-law she has her own mother she's got a real special very cool relationship with her mother-in-law but you and i know that's unusual. And so, yeah.

No, it's not worth $70,000 to put pressure on your marriage and longer drive to work. Sweetie, your mom, but I think I'll have to pass. Your mom's not going to like this either because she's used to people doing what she says. Hey, thanks for the call. Open phones at 888-825-5225 you guys jump in hey we want to know what you guys are thinking about this show i mean if you're just a troll i don't care what you think about the show but overall i do care what everybody thinks about it because we're here to help you guys and keep you informed inspired entertained all of those things. So we're doing a Dave Ramsey Show survey, which we do periodically, and we want to put the right stuff out there.

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It just takes a few minutes. You'll be in the running for a $100 Amazon gift card. Pretty cool. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. No matter what time of year it is, focusing on your family's financial plan is always a smart move. I get questions all the time about where to start and what to do first. One of the most crucial and affordable first steps to take is to protect your family and get term life insurance. I know it's not glamorous, but all the other steps mean a lot less if something happens to you and your family has no financial protection. Getting term life insurance needs to be a top

priority. I recommend 10 to 12 times your income and lock in rates for 15 to 20 years. This gives you plenty of time to get out of debt and build wealth, and I've been recommending Zander Insurance for over 20 years. They understand and live this strategy, and they will take the time to help you find the most affordable term life rates. Go to Zander.com or call 800-356-4282. It's not that expensive, it's not complicated, and you need to do it right now. That's 800-356-4282. Thank you for joining us, America. We're glad you're here.

Joe is next. Joe's in Idaho. Hi, Joe. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Thanks for taking my call. Sure. What's up?

Yeah, I had a quick question for you. I know you'd rather a house be paid for with cash, but you don't yell at people for taking out a 15-year mortgage. Why do you recommend putting 15% of your income towards retirement before attacking paying down the house extra? Wouldn't that essentially be like taking a reverse mortgage that pays you 15% of your income to invest in the market to get a better return, while at the same time you're trying to pay down the reverse mortgage with any extra money you have? Because you're discussing a theory that operates only in a vacuum. And for 30 years I've been out here in the real world, and I've met people with no mortgage and no money

and it's not pretty broke people with a paid for house and so no you need and the power of compound interest we want to get started putting 15 of your household income it's not a 15 rate of return it's 15 of your household income going into retirement so that you get a good, steady start. Then above that, you get your mortgage paid off. Now, here's what we found. We studied 10,000 actual, real millionaires. Not theoretical, not conceptual, not mathematics done in a vacuum, but actual humans that were millionaires.

Ninety-three percent of them were not millionaires because of an inheritance. That's an important fact. In other words, they did it themselves, okay? Then you have to ask yourself, what did they do? The average one of them paid off their home in 10.2 years, and the average one of them steadily invested in their retirement plans, 401Ks, Roth IRAs, and such, in good growth stock mutual funds. And so what we're going with is the data points from actual research

of what real human beings have done, not what might work mathematically if you did it all perfect and clicked your heels together. My brain tends to work like yours, Joe. I tend to think through the math part first. And early in my career, that led me to a lot of errors because it left out the human behavior portion of the equation and it left out risk. If you don't count risk in your mortgages, then, and you say, well, I'm going to make more on my investing than I would on my mortgage, then I'll pay out on my

mortgage. But that's not true after you adjust for risk. And when you leave out risk on that, because 100% of the foreclosures occur on a home with a mortgage, there's risk involved with mortgages. And so when you don't have a mortgage, your risk level goes to approximately zero. Well, in terms of foreclosure, it goes to zero. And so, you know, you have to adjust for all of those things, and that's what these millionaires have done. They've done it with this combination of art and science, not just science. they've done it with this combination of art and science not just science they've done it with a combination of the understanding the human behavior element and the mathematics not just human behavior and not just

mathematics and that's what's led them to become debt-free on their homes and everything and steadily invest through the process and um truthfully, I was honestly very relieved when the study that we did revealed that the baby steps, the way we teach them, is the most effective way to become a millionaire. And the data points are there. The largest study of millionaires ever done in North America. So that's why. Hey, it's a good question and a good discussion, though. Thank you for asking it.

Mark is in Oregon. Hey, Mark, how are you? Hey, Dave, how are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Awesome. Well, I have about $32,000 in debt at the moment, and I'm making about $90,000.

I'm in a little bit of a sticky place. I'm not sure if I should. I have company stock about that much, $33,000. I'm in a little bit of a sticky place. I'm not sure if I should. I have company stock about that much, 33 grand, that I could swipe this all with one swipe. But at the same time, I've never budgeted out like that. So I'm wondering if I should start to work this muscle. This is my first month using the EveryDollar app.

If I should actually start to tackle this and actually learn how to use that muscle, or should I to take care of the debt at once it's a really valid concern because if you wipe out the debt and you don't change the behaviors that cause the debt you're going to go back in debt that's what you're worried about yes sir and that's very wise the good news is is that just by being concerned about it you already are like six steps ahead because you're all you've already developed the muscle somewhat just by asking this question on national radio so that's good news for you i uh if i were in your shoes i might go like 90 days i'd want to build some self-confidence some confidence in myself

that i can do this and then I'd write the check. Okay. I wouldn't go two years. Crazy. I wouldn't go two years, and I wouldn't force myself to work all the way through the debt. Not with that money sitting there. We'll work the baby steps the way they're supposed to be worked. But if you want to give yourself 90 days to where you go, okay, I know I'm not going to screw this up. I know I'm not going to go back into credit card debt.

I know I'm not going to go back into debt just because it was quote easy because i had these stock options to knock it out um and then you trust yourself you know after about three cycles three budget cycles you'll begin to get the hang of it and then i'd probably write my check so maybe back maybe by the end of the year something like that hey man good question Thank you for joining us. Open phones at 888-825-5225. You jump in. We'll talk about your life and your money. Well, when things are not going well, it's really easy to blame the economy. It's like there's a boogeyman out there named the economy.

My problem is not me. My problem is the economy my problem is not me my problem is the economy it's the economy's fault you ever find i mean i have i have done stupid crap in my life and blamed other people you ever done that it's when it's my fault i try to look for something else it's the president's fault because it's always the president's fault. Doesn't matter who the president is. It's their fault, right? It's Congress's fault. It's your parents' fault.

Well, not once you're 30. But, yeah, but I mean, you find somebody to do that with, right? But here's the thing. Self-control, self-control of self. Self-control is called growing up. Adults devise a plan and follow it. Children do what feels good. All you need is a plan and look at the person in the mirror and say,

Baby, you're going to straighten up. You're going to straighten up. That's all you got to do. Our plan is tied to the nine-week class, Financial Peace University. Nearly 6 million people have already used this nine-lesson class. We not only teach you how to get out of debt, but we teach you how to invest and become an everyday millionaire and be outrageously generous along the way. Yeah, we believe in this plan. We've seen it change people's lives.

To get you started on your financial journey, we're going to give you lesson one from Financial Peace University. The first lesson, free. We're going to put it out as a podcast. The blaming stops here. It's not the economy. The blaming stops here. It's free. I can't afford it.

You're going to get the first lesson free. Lesson one's free. can't authority you're going to get the first lesson free lesson one's free it's a podcast be watching for it the free podcast lesson one from financial peace university today go to davramsey.com just davramsey.com and you'll be able to find it i think you'll see it pop up on itunes and spotify and the other places we post the podcast google play all that stuff pretty quick, too. But it's a special edition of the Dave Ramsey Show podcast, and it's lesson one, the audio from it, obviously, from lesson one from Financial Peace University, the class that's changed six million lives. I think that's pretty cool. I was excited when the guys came to me with the idea and they said we're going to give away our stuff for free how you think that meeting went

well you know we do we have figured out around a long time ago around here if we help enough people we don't have to worry about money so we're just about helping you and we have to be smart about it we have to be thoughtful but we want you to win lesson one from financial peace university the audio is available on podcast completely free and after that it's not the economy's fault it's not your mama's fault it's your fault this is the the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, guys. At the Dave Ramsey Show, we really value your input. It helps us to know what's important to you so we can deliver relevant content to help you crush your money goals. We just launched a brand new survey, and we'd love your feedback.

It only takes a few minutes, and you'll be entered to win a $100 Amazon gift card. No purchase necessary. Take the survey at DaveRamsey.com slash survey or text survey to 33789. In the lobby of Ramsey Solutions on the debt-free scream stage, Garrett and Mackenzie are with us. Hey, guys, how are you? Hey, Dave. So excited to be here. Welcome.

Good to have you guys. Where do you all live? Lincoln, Rhode Island. Oh, fun. All the way to Nashville from Rhode Island. Just to do the debt-free scream. Worth it. Lamb. Very cool. How much have you paid off? Just about $43,000. Cool. And how long did this take? 19 and a half months. Perfect. And your range of income during that time? It was from $33,000 to about $83,000. Whoa, nice jump. What happened to your income? We got a couple of jobs, and then we got our main jobs.

I switched from part-time to full-time. Ah, okay. All right. And I found overtime. What do you guys do for a living? I'm now an HVAC technician. And I'm a grocery order writer with Whole Foods Market, and I teach piano lessons on the side. Very cool. Good for you. What kind of debt was the $43,000?

It was a lot of stupid. Both of us had student loans. We owed the IRS credit cards. No car payment or house payment, but we had a lot of the other stuff. Everything else. Wow. Okay, cool. What happened to you 19 months ago?

Well, shortly after we got married, he graduated from trade school and got a job with his company. And the job offer came with a benefits package. And as we were looking through the package, we kept seeing terms like 401k, Roth, IRA. And we went, we don't know what these terms mean. So then I went to the pinnacle of knowledge, YouTube. I went to the mountain. And he found a video of you explaining to a caller the differences between 401k and a Roth. Oh, cool.

So we listened to that. And he started listening to more videos and finding out more about your show and the podcast. And he'd come home from work and say, hey, I heard this on the Dave Ramsey show and I heard this on the Dave Ramsey show. And this guy seems to know what he's talking about. And a little while after that, he sat me down and said, hey, we've got these dreams for the future. We want to have a house of our own. We want to have kids. We want to travel. We can't do that with $42,000 of debt. This guy, Dave Ramsey, he seems to know what he's

talking about. He's got this plan. It's worked for a lot of people. I think it'll work for us, too. I think I responded with something along the lines of, oh, great. Dave Ramsey's now your third parent. Papa Dave became your name. Went from Dave to Uncle Dave to Papa Dave in one conversation.

In one conversation. Oh, man. So what did you guys do next? Well, I was on board-ish for a little while, and it actually took about a month for me to realize that on one of our credit cards the minimum payment that we were making was not even paying

off all the interest. And that was my I've had it moment. I don't want to live like this anymore. Okay. And once she had that I was ready to bring on the we're going to start leading Financial Peace University. Oh, okay. So we've led three Financial Peace University classes and those have really encouraged us to keep moving forward

and follow the plan and to teach others, too. Absolutely. Well, very cool, you guys. Thanks for leading classes. Our privilege. Very fun. How does it feel to have no payments now? It's astounding.

It's a weight off our shoulders. We were able to do this trip without having to worry about anything. Sure. It was great. What was the hardest part of the 19 and a half months? The sacrifices. We didn't have any weekends.

We had nine separate jobs between us. Over the course of the 19 and a half months. From selling baked goods on Saturdays to her teaching piano. It was a lot of work. And it was worth every second of it. I know it's kind of a little cliche, but it taught us a whole lot about ourselves. Because we had just gotten married in January.

And then I started, you know, we have to have a budget. We have to do this. I don't know what we're going to do. So then we found you and your plan. And we had, you know had tendencies to being cheap. We had gone on our honeymoon for $400, and we only had a small credit card that had a little bit on it. But it wasn't quite enough to get us to where we are now. And so our plan wasn't working as well as we thought it was going to, and then we found you and followed it.

Okay. So what do you tell people the key is? Follow the plan. Lots of work. And follow the it. Okay. So what do you tell people the key is? Follow the plan. Lots of work. Lots of work. And follow the plan. Okay. We've taught the class a couple times now,

and you know the people that are, okay, I'm going to do this, and I'm still going to do it my own way, and it'll hopefully work out. And then there are the people that are, we are going to do this, and we're going to get out of debt. One of the people that we taught

were Bob and Cheryl LeVake. They were great, great companions to go through this. They paid off their debt the same day we paid off ours. And so a shout out to them. But they were one of them that just went all in. They dove all the way in. Yeah. Yeah, we're going to do this exactly the way Dave outlines it.

No ish. No ish. And then the next thing would be work as a team. You have a partner. Especially if you next thing would be work as a team you have a partner especially if you're married you work as a team it when we first got married there was no your income my income your debt my debt it was all our debt and our income which helped the process so much more and the last thing i would say would be find some ways to keep up your momentum especially listening to the podcast hearing other people's stories and their journeys. It's a big motivator, and it was for us during the long 19 months. Every single Debt Free Scream since we started doing the YouTube

broadcast is on the YouTube channel, so you can sit and watch YouTube Debt Free Scfree screams for hours. We have the playlist saved. That's fun. Well, congratulations, you guys. We're very, very proud of you. Who were your biggest cheerleaders? Definitely Bob and Cheryl LeVake. And my parents were big cheerleaders, too. Okay, so they believed in it from day one.

Very cool. Good for you guys. We got a copy of Chris Hogan's book for you, Everyday Millionaires, number one bestseller, because that's the next chapter in your story you'll be on your way to being an everyday millionaire and now that you're debt-free that's the next next next goal for you to set so very well done you guys very proud of you all right it's garrett and mckenzie oh here comes and who is this this is little garrett little gar Garrett. Garrett Jr. How old is Garrett Jr.? Seven weeks.

Oh, he's ready for a debt-free scream. Yeah, he is about ready for that. Yeah, we'll have to cover those ears. Oh, my gosh. Debt-free baby. Love it. Garrett and McKenzie and Garrett Jr., his family tree has changed from Providence, Rhode Island.

$43,000 paid off in 19 months. Lots of extra jobs from 33 to 83 count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one that's how it's done that little baby has got some special parents. It's going to be a whole different kind of life for him. Well done, you guys. Very well done. See, you need to stop and think about what happens.

I do want you to get out of debt, but I only want you to get out of debt so that. Everything here is about the so that. You don't have any payments. You need to be out of debt so that you can be outrageously generous, so that you can retire with dignity, so that you can take that trip you've always wanted to take, so that you can change your family tree. See, it's about the so that.

And you can't do all of that when all you do is work to pay payments to banks banks have stolen the soul of this culture all of your soul that's poured into your working life is going to a tall building in the skyline instead of into your family tree being changed, but not Garrett Jr. Garrett Jr.'s parents figured this out 19 months ago, and that little seven-month-old little boy, it's a different thing for him now. His parents will look back, you know, back in in the day there's this thing called youtube be telling garrett's kids this story i mean think about it it was just 20 minutes ago you couldn't pull out this thing you hold in your hand and order things from all over the world it's used 20 minutes ago you used to take a phone out of the receiver and dial it with your finger,

and it was a rotary phone, and it was black and attached to the wall. Just 20 minutes ago, there were three channels on your television. Oh, it goes fast. It goes really fast. Get out of debt so that this is the Dave Ramsey Show We'll be right back. Ethan is with us. Ethan is in L.A., Louisiana. Hi, Ethan.

How are you? Thanks for taking my call, Dave. Sure. How can I help? I've got a real estate question for you. So I'm 22 years old, debt-free, and make about $60 a year. I'm currently saving up for my first house. Good.

My question is, would it be wise to kind of use my first house as like a rental property as well? I live near a college town, and I can pick up a three-bedroom two-bath for about 140 ish um would it be smart to go ahead and like rent it out to college kids to build equity this early in the game or while you live there yeah you're gonna live in like one of the bedrooms and rent out two bedrooms yeah i mean i live in the garage if they let me okay i've rented out three bedrooms you know okay all right um and you're going to put this on a 15 year fixed where the payment with no rent coming in is less than a fourth of your take-home pay yeah like i said so worst case scenario if it's not rented out i just have a

mortgage payment essentially and best case scenario is they build equity for me well best case scenario is you would make more money than the payment cost you and that's not building equity you're you're building the equity they're not building equity for you you're just collecting income is what amounts to and you can afford to do that because you're 22 and single and having a bunch of roommates is not a big problem. And you're putting down, you know, you have your emergency fund and you're debt-free, and you're putting down a down payment. Yes, sir. I don't have the 20% saved up quite yet, but I'll be there in probably 12 months.

Okay. All right. If you're putting it on a 15-year fixed where the payment is less than a fourth of your take-home pay with no rent income, then, yeah, I would do this because you would buy that house anyway. And on top of that, you're going to get rental income. On top of that, you've got the income, which gives you, you know, that's just gravy on the biscuit at that point. That's just extra money coming in. But don't do the deal if the only way the deal the numbers fit is if you get rental income because you may get in there and decide you don't want to screw with this uh because it

could be a real hassle matter of fact you're probably going to learn a whole lot as you rent to college students as roommates you're going to learn a lot about human beings and um you know you're going to learn to screen your renters very, very carefully. They live in your home. And they cause problems if you don't put the right ones in there. And the good ones are the best thing that ever happened to you. So, you know, you'll get all of that working in there. So Albert is next. Albert's in New Jersey.

How are you, Albert? Could be better, could be worse dave how can i help so um i just uh found out last month um uh i'm basically um going to be laid off of my new job um which i've only been in for three months um about to be laid off in this October, so next month. What do you get paid? With bonus and everything, about $61,000. Okay.

What do you do? I'm an original account manager in a money transfer company. For a what? Money transfer company. Money transfer company. Okay. All right. Okay. a what money transfer company money transfer company okay all right and uh so what you've been out you've been knowing this for a month how's the job hunt going uh it's been really aggressive um been pretty much kind of just hand over fist just aggressively applying for jobs um

meeting with career counselors um going to job fairs, you know, pretty much the whole nine yards. Yeah, so have you got any offers? No, not yet. No, I'm currently in the interview process to hopefully potentially lead into a job offer, but so far it's still within the working stages. But anyway, my question is, like, this is going to be the second time I've been laid off within the past two years. Uh, I've worked for three different companies since then. Um, first time I got laid off back in 2017,

I've been on work for about 10 months. Um, during that 10 months, obviously I decided to fill the gaps by going back to school and some new certifications, um, kind of meaning a little bit away in my savings, but I felt like, you know, hopefully investing in education would be a better return on investment for the future. Long story short, eventually, I landed this job back in May, and then all of a sudden, you know, companies started to do some downsizing and now I'm part of a huge layoff. And I just need to know if financially I'm in a good place while I'm aggressively looking for this job

because, you know, it's about a month and I'm still not having concrete offers. And I'm looking to see if there's a way, if I should be doing something else different or if I should be more aggressive. How many hours a week do you work now? 40. Okay. Why don't you pick up an extra job delivering pizzas?

Bank the money. Yeah, I mean, I'm not afraid to take a step back. I'm not saying do that permanently. I'm saying you have a month left, and you can bank an extra $2,000. That gives you a little extra percussion. How much money you got in savings?

I have about $17,000. You said certs. Are you in technology? No, money transfer. Okay. So the certification was in that field? I had three different certifications, one in digital marketing, one in data-driven management,

and then another one in customer management. Okay. Well, data management ought to be paid more than $61,000 if you're any good at it. You may be brand new, though. You may be just taking entry stuff, especially in Jersey. So, you know, a good data engineer is worth a lot more than that in most places. And there's a shortage. So if you've got the ability to mine data and manage data from a marketing perspective and you can prove that to companies

you're pretty valuable you're a pretty good commodity as far as that goes and but you know you've got 17,000 if you want to work an extra job I'd work something extra and pile up some cash because the bigger pile of cash you got the less desperate you are and hopefully they're giving you some kind of a package as well uh when you go out the door and um you know it's just the uh rough and tumble out there listen there is no such thing folks for any of you and it's true of you albert it's true of me there's no such thing as job security. There's no such thing. It's mythology. The only thing that gives you security is you have a skill set that is marketable in the marketplace.

And when you have a marketable skill set, you've always got security. When you know how to sell, you can always find a job. When you have, you know, you're in the technology field to sell, you can always find a job. When you have, you know, you're in the technology field right now, you can always find a job. You're a nurse, you can always find a job. You can always find money to come in. You know, and so you've got a marketable skill in the marketplace. You are your only job security. This idea that you're going to get some company that is actually going to take care of you, it's just mythology mythology and so you're just experienced the rough and tumble of the early years of your career path

and you didn't do anything wrong it sounds like it's a massive layoff it's not personal it wasn't aimed at you uh you got a little experience under your belt um i'm going to send you a copy of ken coleman's book the proximity principle i think you might be hunting for your job wrong i think you might be just filling out applications left and right and that's bad think you might be hunting for your job wrong. I think you might be just filling out applications left and right, and that's bad. Or you might be just tweaking your resume. That's bad. Go to KenColemanShow.com and download his resume guidelines, his interview guidelines, and read the book I'm going to send you, which is called The Proximity Principle.

Both of those will help you immensely in this job hunt. Do it immediately as soon as you get the book. I'm going to put you, which is called the proximity principle. Both of those will help you immensely in this job hunt. Do it immediately as soon as you get the book. I'm going to put you on hold. Kelly's going to pick up, and we will get you signed up for that. Folks, you can build an algorithm and auto-bot fill out job applications and fill out 50,000 job applications on monster.com by the end of the day or zip recruiter or whatever else let me tell you how many job offers you'll get zero because i hired 260 260 people last year we had 22 000 applications

you do not get out of that pile by just entering into the pile. That's not how it works. You've got to build a relationship with somebody inside the organization. Coleman will show you how to do that with the proximity principle. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. This is James Childs, producer of The Dave Ramsey Show. Did you know you can now listen to The Dave Ramsey Show on Pandora and Spotify? For all the ways to watch and listen, check out our showcase at DaveRamsey.com slash show.