The Ramsey Show - App - Your Sacrifice Today Will Set You Up for a Better Tomorrow (Hour 2)

Episode Date: December 6, 2021

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Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. I'm Dave Ramsey, your host. Thank you for joining us, America. Open phones at 888-825-5225.

Ken Coleman, Ramsey Personality, is my co-host today as we answer your questions about your life, your money, and with Ken here, your career. Scott is with us to start off this hour. Hey, Scott, welcome to The Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank to the Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thank you for having me on.

Sure. What's up? So I have a question about a 529 plan for my child, putting money into that, or maxing out my Roth IRAs and retirement instead, because I'll be around age 62 when he's 18 going to college. So my thought is that I could just cash flow out of my retirement instead of doing the 529 plan. I didn't know if there was any advantages or disadvantages that I'm not thinking of.

Hmm. Let me back up. Are you out of debt? Yes. House and debt? Yes. House and everything? Correct. Way to go, dude. Congratulations.

Thank you. How much is in your retirement account? Right now I have about $400,000. What's your paid for house worth? Probably around $200,000. Good for you. You're doing great, man. Well done. Thank you. Well done. uh probably around 200 good for you you're doing great man well done thank you well done um

okay so it almost is a matter of philosophy of life versus it's not a big deal mathematically uh 529 grows tax-free or roth ira grows tax- All right? And so if money gets trapped in the 529 and isn't used, it wouldn't be trapped in the Roth IRA, and so it would have been good to have it over there. However, you can do both since you have no payments at all. I don't know why you couldn't max out your Roth IRAs and do some 529. Why can't you do both? Well, I am, well, let me back up then, I guess.

So I'm doing maxing out my Roth IRA and maxing out my 457. Right. And do his college. What do you make? What's your household income? Around $80,000. Oh, it starts to get pinchy. Okay.

All right. Yeah. around 80 000 oh it starts to get pinchy okay all right uh yeah i if the way i answer questions here scott is what would i do if i woke up in your shoes okay you're going to be a millionaire when this kid goes to school times a bunch probably two or three million so you're going to be fine the kid's going to school that's not in question you're going to have the money and you're going to have the. The kid's going to school. That's not in question. You're going to have the money, and you're going to have the money to retire. That's not in question. So what would I do? I was in a similar situation, I guess, at your age,

and I chose to do some in the kid's college fund, but I didn't overfund it. And so even if you said, okay, I'm going to split the idea on this. I'm going to take 50% out of my money and pay for college, and I'm going to put 50% of what I think the college is going to be into the 529. And so the 529 is not enough, the way I'm talking about funding it. You've not funded it well enough to pay for college, but you're going to have millions of dollars over here, and you'll be 62, and you can access it in your Roth, right?

Right, okay. Yeah, and there's something about saying kids college, and then I don't have any money saved for kids college directly with a label on it that just feels wrong down inside. And so I had kids college funds um in addition to building wealth and maxing out retirement when i was your age um dealing with a little bit more income than you were dealing with at that time but uh but i did all that so yeah i'm not if i have to choose i'm going to back off a little and say i'm gonna put i don't know 500 bucks a month six thousand dollars a year into a 529 or even three thousand dollars a year even even 250 a month and none of that really changes the equation but there's something about the groove in your brain and the conversations around

your kitchen table this your college fund it's your college fund versus uh got your college covered it's over here in my retirement there's something that changes in the vignette in the household spirit what is that specifically it it's an it's i'm an old salesman i guess and it's the assumptive close yeah kind of this is what it's always told my kids they have a college fund that's your college fund that's your college fund which assumes your butt's going to college oh yeah that's what i thought right that's what i thought you were getting at yeah there's something in there with that instead of like oh you got lots of options because there's money and whatever you want to do you know and it was just like i i believe in a four-year education i like education i think it's a good thing i don't think it's necessary to win

and i think it's overpriced right now uh in most places and i think a lot of people study stupid stuff during that four years and they need to stop doing that but uh but i i'm not willing to go all higher education is not worth it like some people are saying that's bull you can make more in some cases being a welder oh you make more in some cases being a diesel mechanic yeah then you can getting a degree in left-handed puppetry yeah you know and so yeah i fall in the middle on that as you know but i but it's based on reality that's kind of where I am. Is it the best way or the only way? The only way you go get a four-year degree is if you're studying something that's usable.

Yep. I'm a utilitarian, pragmatic person in that regard. But I, you know, my youngest is 30, so it was a different world when I started saving for their college. That's correct. But in this world today, what would I do? I would have something. If you'd have asked me four years ago, I would have said fully fund college. So I have shifted.

Right. But, as you've pointed out accurately, and I can attest to this, is what I'm seeing and reading every day and talking to callers on the phone on the Ken Coleman Show. Look, the fact of the matter is that 529 can go towards certifications and other non-four-year degree things that are just as valuable for the kid. You want to go get maxed out on your Microsoft certs so you're going to technology? Yeah. You can go that route, too.

This is your future fund. You know, it doesn't have to be traditional college. However, 529 pays for a lot of qualifications, and it is a good expectation to put out there. I think that's great yeah and it just i there's something that says in our family you know how many people you ever talk to that say um uh my mom was a teacher so our family valued education yeah no question and so i had to go i felt like i needed to get an education and that has that served that that mentality serves you well versus

you don't need to go to school you just be one of them stuck up college boys you know if you grew up in that house right you know then you got a you have a different view on the power of knowledge that's right and knowledge is powerful it is it opens doors it causes your brain to reshape and see things you've never seen before and do things you've never done before yes and uh what got you there won't get you here. And what got you there won't get you here. I mean, what got you here won't get you there or however you say it. If you had good knowledge, you could say that correctly. But, you know.

That's right. You're setting an expectation that in order to do something, you're going to have to learn something and you're going to have to get some experience, and you need a plan for this. It's really what you're great at. It's really, I think, what you're really known for. You're a legend when it comes to when a plan works, it changes the game. And planning, planning, planning, planning, planning. And that's what you're putting a seed in the minds of their kids. There's a plan.

You're putting a groove in your brain. This is the way things are. Yeah. And you need to do it to yourself. You trick yourself into winning habits. Yeah, that's right. James Clear's book, Atomic Habits. I mean, same thing, right?

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I have done stupid with zeros on the end. I know what it looks like. I'm so dumb. I had to become a millionaire twice, which proves that it can be done. I could do it twice. Surely you can do it once, and I can show you exactly how. We do this with the baby steps. We've shown people how to become millionaires.

We've been teaching this stuff for 30 years, and the number of people that show up out in the lobby that i meet that are millionaires now because they followed the baby steps they've been doing it 5 10 15 years 20 years in some cases and uh you know that it wasn't get rich quick and it was slow and steady and it wasn't sexy and sometimes their family made fun of them but now they're millionaires we call them baby steps millionaires and i started becoming concerned that people didn't believe they could do it. And our thing around here is hope. Your thing is hope on getting a job and a career that has purpose.

Our thing on hope is, you know, not only can you get out of debt, and you should, but the only reason to do that is so that you can become wealthy, so that you can change your family tree tree and so that you can be outrageously generous there's a so that and hope is a big deal so when people start losing their hope or other people start trying to steal your hope with a negative narrative then it's our job around here to punch that thing in the face and so i haven't done a book in eight years but i decided to do one it's called baby steps millionaires how ordinary people built extraordinary wealth and how you can too and i systematically go through and show you how to do it and i defeat all the arguments that you can't do it

so after you read this book there's no freaking excuses that's simple is it some stuff dave ramsey said before of course i'm a one-trick pony. I only know how to do one thing. So of course you're going to hear stuff you heard before. No question about it. But if you want to preorder this book, it's $20. It comes out in January, and we're going to throw in about over $100 and some odd dollars worth of items with it. The Baby Steps Millionaire audio book and e-book,

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Eric is in San Antonio. Hey, Eric, what's up in your world? Not too much. I'm working. I'm late to a meeting. Hope it doesn't cost me my job. That would be sad. Wouldn't it call you guys and have that happen?

Well, if it happens, just let Ken Coleman know. He'll help you get another one. I'll get you a better one. It pays you more anyway, so don't sweat it. Listen, I listen to you guys driving home, and there's so much work around here. I can't believe anybody can't find a job. Hey, quick question. I'm 55.

My wife is 42. I'm retired military. I've been very bad about saving money up until the last 10 years, and I've been trying to play catch up. I'm saving a lot now. Well, what I feel is a lot. I have a house in Oklahoma that's paid for. I'm on a 15-year mortgage here.

I owe $200,000, maybe $198,000. And I'm trying to decide, do I sell that house now and pay as much as I can? It's only worth about $130,000. I thought I might have said that. Or do I wait until I'm ready to retire? Because I've got four kids. Two of them are pretty young, and I want my house paid for before I kick the bucket. You know what I mean?

That needs to be off the plate. It's pretty simple for me. Okay. If you had the house in Oklahoma is worth is worth 130 000 bucks that what you said yes sir if you had 130 000 piled in the middle of your table and you did not own a house in oklahoma cash benjamin's looking at you in the face would you pay it down on your house or would you go buy a rental property in oklahoma that's an easy answer well yeah yeah that's an easy answer sell it that's easy okay all right well that was my main question yeah that's why because all the reasons that you would sell it i mean all the reasons you wouldn't go buy it again is why you sell it you're a landlord in oklahoma by default not by plan

and so time to undo the default. And it's just convenience is the only reason you own it. And it's not even convenient. It's freaking in Oklahoma. So, yeah, sell it. Sell it. I love rental property that's paid for. It's a wonderful thing to have, and I'd like for you to have some of that someday as part

of your portfolio if you want to. But in your case, I'm getting my house paid off. And you know this. We hear this day in and day out on the show when he does that and picks takes a big chunk 130 000 on that house it is going to fast forward everything because the momentum he's going to feel i mean you talk about a great high going towards a big long-term goal i think he pays it off faster than he could possibly imagine with that one big chunk that gets him started. Yeah, I mean, when you can see how quickly you can pay it off after it's gone.

I mean, you know this intellectually, but it's weird emotionally that when you're actually going, wait a minute, I only have that left. And you reach over and you run to the finish line even though you're already out of breath. You know, it's pretty amazing. Pretty amazing. Bill is with us in Rochester, New York. Hi, Bill.

Welcome to the Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave and Ken. How's it going? Better than I deserve. What's up? Well, I'm 26, almost 27 years old. I've got a brand-new house that we purchased in December of last year. Through my work, I've been fortunate to do pretty well in my profession

where I've got a significant amount of commission bonuses and other items that are being paid out to me over the course of this next year. So my question being, we're in a position where we can completely pay off our mortgage by December 1st of 2022. Awesome. Yeah. Yeah, so really just trying to, I've kind of heard conflicting opinions from everybody that I've talked in this question, so I figured I'd come right to the top, whether or not I should be putting that all and paying off the mortgage or if I should be looking to take that money and invest it into other avenues. Well, the position I answer that from is this position. 30 years of teaching people how to become wealthy.

Okay? And all of the evidence that I have in front of me, including the largest study of millionaires ever done in North America, done by Ramsey Research in detail, airtight research, all of the evidence says the fastest way to become wealthy is to become debt-free and free up your most powerful wealth-building tool, which is your income. Here's what happens. It's hard to breathe in right now, but this time next year you're going to breathe it in.

When you don't have a payment in right now, but this time next year you're going to breathe it in. When you don't have a payment in the world, you analyze your career track differently. You make different decisions on vacations. You make different decisions on a car purchase. You make different decisions on generosity. And all of those things increase the speed at which you build wealth. I was going to say probability, but the probability is 100%. But the speed at which you build wealth, because there's something inside your soul that relaxes.

When you walk out in the backyard at Christmas next year, and the grass is yours because you paid it off, and take off your shoes even if it's cold you're gonna feel different and that's an intangible that ends up reflecting in the mathematics long term does that make sense to you yep yeah no exactly and uh in other words you know the number of people that panicked during the pandemic because they had a big honking house payment and freaked out and did stupid butt stuff or took a job they hated or made a bad decision because they had to make a payment? You really can't put a mathematical figure to stupid, but the panic caused people to be stupid and i've been i panicked

and been stupid right so i know how it feels i'm not making fun of somebody but the difference in that versus the guy who's sitting there the gals who's sitting there with a paid for home and can they get ready to do a a job change and they make a different they they look different in the interview oh well you walk into an you carry your shoulders different in the interview. Oh, well. You walk into it and you carry your shoulders different in the interview when you don't have a house payment. Yes, but even before that, you actually look at things that you're afraid to look at when you've got a bunch of debt. You see opportunity and you go, wait, there's actually no real risk here at all. I'm not going to be living under a bridge because I change lanes and go after the work that I really want to do. It does change everything.

It gives us bigger perspective. It gives us way more courage. It is a game changer. Peace. Solid foundation to build. Filters everywhere. Financial peace. Two words that don't go together.

Like Fauci man. This is The Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. ken coleman ramsey personality number one best-selling author is my co-host today open phones at 888-825-5225 on the debt-free stage in the lobby of Ramsey Solutions, Brittany is with us. Hi, Brittany. How are you? I'm good. Excited to be here. Well, we're honored to have you.

Where do you live? I live in Findlay, Ohio. Oh, yeah. Very cool. Welcome to Nashville. Thank you. And all the way down here to do a debt-free scream. Yes, sir.

How much did you pay off? $42,000. All right. How long did that take? About 16 months. 16? Yes, 16 months. Cool. And long did that take? About 16 months. 16? Yes, 16 months. Cool.

And your range of income during that 16 months? It was about $45,000, and it jumped up to $58,000. Wow, nice jump. What do you do for a living? I am a shipping administrator. A what? Shipping. Shipping.

Oh, okay. I'm an administrator. I do a lot of paperwork. Okay, cool. I think I'm deaf today. All right. So what kind of debt was your $42, was all student loans all right got rid of sally may give her her eviction notice put the old woman on the street way to go how long you been out of

school uh about a year and a half okay so you got out of school and decided to attack this straight up how did you connect up with us what made up what made you believe that this was doable so it was about three years ago my sister and mom took financial peace university and so they told me a little bit about you um but i was just looking on youtube and um it was about a year and a half ago is when i started but I um that's when I got serious I started watching your videos and um got serious and I'm like I'm just gonna do this and all right yep very very cool well congratulations so you come out of school and say all right mom and sis did this it's worth it I don't want this 42,000 hanging around my neck I'm gonna knock it out yes you went crazy girl you did it in a short period of time yeah so what caused your income to jump up um a lot of overtime and i also did instacart uh grocery

deliveries on the side was that profitable is it worth doing uh yeah um only because i could do that with my daughter oh okay so um i would work my 50, 55 hours a week and then take her with me and do some grocery deliveries. Okay. So you've been hustling and grinding. Yes. Way to go. Way to go. That makes it especially sweet when you're free then.

It sure does. Yeah, and you don't have to take the OT and you don't have to take the Instacart and you're free. Yes. Yeah, that's cool. Wow. So besides all the crazy hours, because you really worked hard and it's a testament and you're free yes yeah that's cool wow so uh besides all the crazy hours because you really worked hard and it's a testament to you uh what was one of the hardest things about this journey of knocking it out um probably like i didn't go out to eat at all um and you don't

have time you're working um and night. And no Starbucks coffees. That was probably my hardest thing. But I would, every two weeks, I would buy myself a coffee. So I didn't completely deprive myself. Oh, now that's very interesting. So what would you say to other people about that little bit of a treat every once in a while? A little bit. I wouldn't call it a cheat, but a little treat.

What did that do for you? It just, I don't know. It helped me, I think. Because you said, hey, but a little treat. What did that do for you? It just, I don't know. It helped me, I think. Because you said, hey, it was worth it, but now I get back to sacrificing again. Yes. You're working on what you need, some strong coffee. I'm telling you. I'm telling you.

It's almost like juice just gets through it. You're a machine, girl. You got after it. You are. Man, you're getting it. So did you grow up with a family that has that kind of work ethic? I mean, what made you turn it on like that? Because you turned it on.

Yeah. I mean, yeah, I learned a lot from my parents. They're pretty good workers. But what helped me, I saved about $10,000, and I threw all that towards it. And I think that kind of took away a little bit of it from the start. But then, let's see. I forgot what i was going to say sorry that's okay yeah so what do you tell people the key to getting out of debt is um definitely the budget and um just sticking with the budget it sounds simple but it's really it's really that

simple it's just um the self-discipline to follow it yeah you just laid out the plan and then hustle and grind and push the plan through as fast as you can and then i can step back and have a coffee exactly a coffee very good expensive coffee so now that you're free what do you want to do i don't even know i haven't really even thought about it um i don't know there's just so much to do and and I want to help people. So, like, the more money I make, the more people I can help, and I think, I don't know. Yeah, yeah, that's true. That's true. It's hard to help people when you're broke. It is.

It's a good thing. That's a good thing. Yeah, it gives you a tool to help people with. That's really about all it's good for, actually, this thing called money. But, yeah, so very, very well done. How old is your daughter? She's seven. All right. How old is your daughter? She's seven.

All right. Did she come with you? She sure did. All right. We're going to get her in the debt-free scream here. What's her name? Her name is Kira. Kira. All right.

Seven-year-old Kira. Yes. So Kira's been on a really, this has been a tough year for her because mom's been gone a lot. Yeah. And she got to go on a lot of Instacart rides. She sure did. Yeah.

Didn't hurt her either. So she's old enough that she will remember the price mom paid to get rid of her student loans and have a free life for the two of you. So very, very well done. You're a noble lady. I'm proud of you. You're a rock star. You're a hero. Very, very cool stuff.

We got a copy of the Baby Steps Millionaire book, which comes out in January. But you get an early copy because you're here and I know a guy. So we're going to hook you up. Because I think you're going to be a Baby Steps Millionaire. I think she's going to be one pretty quick. And to that end, I would like to give her a copy of From Paycheck to Purpose so she can really, now that she's debt-free, begin to figure out who are those people she wants to help and how can she do it and make really good money in the process. And we'll get that shovel even bigger for you.

So we're going to give you that, too. We'll load you up with that and a total money makeover book, too. So you're going to leave here with so many books you're not going to know what to do. And you can give away the total money makeover book and read the other two. That'll be perfect because you know how to do this stuff. Very, very well done, Brittany. Thank you. All right, Brittany and Kara from Toledo, Ohio.

$42,000. Finley, Ohio. britney and kara from toledo ohio 42 000 finley ohio 42 000 paid off in 16 months making 45 to 58 count it down let's hear a debt-free scream three two one we're debt-free I love it! Woo-hoo! Very, very cool. Well, that young lady can do anything. Oh, no stopping her. She's got a dadgum Superman cape tucked back there. No stopping.

And she's got the ability to step in and do anything. And just so unassuming about it. It's nonplussed. It's just what you do. Yeah, that's what I did. It's just what you do. No big deal. Well, you see that beautiful little Kira next to her just kind of shining bright,

and you see the motivation for any parent, but certainly a single mama. What I love about Brittany's story is a lot of single moms that heard that story, and if you don't think you can do it, Brittany says otherwise. Making $45,000. Okay, I'm going to take on OT and Instacart get it up to 58 42 that's 13 thousand dollars of the 42 10 went towards the lf 32 still in the overtime picked up and then the tight budget and they did it yeah i mean this is real it is those are real numbers tough 16 months right no question and kira sat there and watched mama do it i don't know if there's a

greater legacy it's about she'll never she can't she can't lose that it's part of her life now it's part of her heritage yeah so she's a hero that's just beautiful beautiful and well well done very good stuff very good stuff all right julia from instagram says ken i love my job but it doesn't pay enough to get me out of debt do i keep the job i love or start looking for something else keep it for the moment while we start looking for something else keep it for the moment while we start looking for something else we're going to replace that job pretty darn quick but i don't want you to leave it until we have something better to step into because the reality is it's no sense in you having any interruption in income none at all certainly when we are but

what about the part where she loves her job uh it doesn't matter she can love another job that pays even more see there's the see people think there's a trade-off. She can love another job that pays even more. See, people think there's a trade-off, that if I love this job, I'll never love another one. I'm not allowed to make good money at something I love. Or that I'll never love another one. Quite the opposite. Right. So here's what we do.

Here's what we teach. Very simple formula. For Julia, for anybody else that hears that question, if you are doing work that you're really good at, that's your talent. You're doing work that you really love. She's identified that already. And that work is creating a result that she connects to. That's how we know, ding, ding, ding, this is also a job that I will love. I would add one other element to that is make sure it's a healthy culture, good place where the people value you.

That's how you know. No risk. She can step right into another job she loves that pays her way more. You don't have to leave a job you love for a job you hate. You could leave a job you love for a job you love. That's how it works. That's a false premise. Yeah.

Yeah. This is the Ramsey Show. We'll be right back. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. This is the Ramsey Show. Anna is in Sacramento. Hi, Anna. How are you? My heart is beating.

Hi. Hey. You'll be okay. We've never lost a patient what's up um so i just wanted i don't know encouragement or advice um so we moved here to sacramento area from spokane washington about five years ago and our baby stopped uh 3b. But it seems like we finally have a good down payment, 200K, but the prices have shot up to where, you know, if we buy a decent house, it's not going to be 25% of our take-home pay. And so we've been driving our kiddos to a school about half an hour away from where we live now because, you know, we live in a bit of a cheaper part of town. We've been doing that for

a couple of years and I don't know, it's just the gas prices are going up, everything is going up and we're just kind of playing catch up and trying to do the right thing. And I don't know if we should just bite the bullet and buy a house super expensive or like should we keep on saving like what should we do well uh the reason that we have the guidelines we teach in place and you're familiar with all of them obviously be out of debt have an emergency fund before you buy that's why what you described with maybe step 3b where you're familiar with all of them, obviously. Be out of debt, have an emergency fund before you buy. That's what you described with maybe Step 3B, where you're saving for your down payment. We don't want you to buy a house with debt

because it's going to give you trouble. The reason we've got all of these guidelines, like, for instance, that or 25% of your take-home pay is the max you ought to have in payment, you know, is because we want you to win long term and so let's let's just say that you said okay based on this situation um math doesn't apply because i live in california ha ha ha right and so i'm gonna go buy a house it's 40 of my take-home pay well you know it's gonna happen right

you're gonna struggle because you just tightened your budget up so tight you can't move you can't breathe you're going to be house poor and you're going to all of a sudden you're not going to have the money to save it to buy the next car and you're going to get car debt and you're not going to have the money to do this you're going to end up with debt on that you're not going to have the money to do that you're going to end up with debt on that and that's what happens when people get house poor and um you're gonna you're gonna cycle right back in and end up being a normal broke person broke person and you don't want to be a normal broke person right so it's not like dave just made up these nasty rules or something they're for you yeah i'm just wondering should we go ahead

and buy a cheaper house and continue the 30-minute commute, even though the gas price is almost four-something a gallon? I'm waiting for the prices of the houses to go down because supposedly everybody's leaving California. I thought they were going to, too, but they're not. They may, but it's going to be a while longer um so you know there's not a hugely wrong answer here if you want to rent for a couple more years and see what this market shakes out a little bit it could there could be enough of an exodus to actually affect the market um it hasn't yet yeah no it's going the opposite way It's going up. And real estate in general does not go down.

Sometimes it slows how much it goes up, but in general it doesn't go down. And so, you know, you want to rent a little bit more and then make your purchase, or do you want to buy now and ride the wave up with the values and then make another move in three years? You could do that because your house that you're living in will increase in value unless the market shakes out. I mean, if you bought a house today, unless California real estate goes down because of the exodus,

then you're going to be okay. You'll make some money on it, and you can move up later after you've saved some more, and at least you're in on the ownership game, right? That's probably what we would do. The gas price thing is irrelevant. and at least you're in on the ownership game, right? Mm-hmm. That's probably what we would do. The gas price thing is irrelevant. I'm just curious, Anna, where's that coming from? You keep mentioning gas price.

Somebody else talking to you about that, using that as a good excuse, or is that something that's just really freaking you out in the monthly budget? Monthly budget, it's just so I drive them 30 30 minutes to school and then i drive 30 minutes back home and then at the end of it like it's an hour round trip every time twice yeah twice i get that gets old days a week yeah yeah can you can you rent can you rent closer to the school affordably not affordably no Not affordably, no. It's crazy. And if you bought, what would be the percentage of your income on a 15-year fixed? Over by the school.

Over by the school. Yeah, so it would be $35,000-ish. $30,000, $35,000. Our take-home is $12,000. If we bought a livable house, mean on a 15 year 25 is a guideline to keep people from doing 40 and 50 so it doesn't mean you can't do 27 you know or something like that and so if you can if you stretch it a little bit knowing that your income is coming up if you know your income is coming up i haven't asked you about that but if your incomes are you know your income is coming up. I haven't asked you about that. But if your incomes are trending upward at a good pace,

not just 3% a year, but they're there. And the only thing we know about gas prices is they're going to change. I mean, two years ago they were half. And, you know, and then they'll change again. And then they'll change again, and then they'll change again. So not the first time we've had $5 gas while I've been on the air. You know, I hear this, and I hear the hour, two hours a day, essentially is what we're talking about, and education for your kids.

You've been very intentional about where they're going to school, obviously. I think this is one of those deals where just like the stories we hear of people that are paying off debt or people that lose tremendous amount of weight you have to keep the finish line at the top of your mind and save it a little bit more right save a little bit more sacrificing a little bit in that time it stinks about the worst house in that neighborhood yeah but soon you're not going to have that commute and i think you let that drive you but keep your eye on the finish line if you buy the worst house in that old in that other neighborhood instead of just looking at the average house in that other neighborhood then you get over the close to the school and you do it at 26 or 27 percent or

something like that that's not the end of the world the point is not the exact percentage it's not like 24.7 is the is the number and if you go over that you're screwed you know it's not the point is don't have so much house payment that you can't breathe and have justified that because i live in california or i need to be in this certain neighborhood or i need to do that and well you don't understand you understand you can't yeah i do understand math works everywhere i do. And so just don't rationalize yourself into a dadgum mess. And if you avoid that, you'll be okay. Because it's an emotional thing when you're driving an hour each way

and you're dealing with your kids' issues and you're dealing with that. It's all emotion. And if you're not careful, every time I get emotional, I make stupid decisions. So don't do that. Twyla is with us in Minneapolis. Twyla, we're short on time. Ask your question right fast.

Okay. So thank you for taking my call. I'm a family nurse practitioner, and I have the opportunity to take some travel RN positions. That would be twice my income. But I love my job. I really could stay here until I retire. So I'm just kind of in a predicament. I'm not sure if it's worth doing it.

If I did jump on the travel nurse train, I could have my debt paid off in seven months versus right now I'm at about 15. All right. Next question for me then is could you come back into the practitioner role if you took a season and you were in the travel nurse role? So let's say you did it for a year, year and a half, two years, and then came back. Would that be a pretty easy transition back? It would be easy to come back into the family nurse practitioner role, just probably not like where I work right now. Yeah. I think you've got to weigh this. I think, you know, you're going to get out of debt faster, but what's the tradeoff?

And if you're only taking the travel nurse job just to juice. And you hate it. Yeah. Then I probably wouldn't do it. I would be patient, which is hard, and stay in the job you love knowing that you are it yeah then i probably wouldn't do it i'd be i would be patient which is hard and stay in the job you love knowing that you are going to get out of it if you instead are not hating it and you're going i love this idea it sounds like an adventure i'm going to go do it for two years and then i'm going to come back and work it out and this and i'll be debt

free and i will have had an adventure and if you see it that way like i want to travel europe after i graduate from college before i take a job you You know what I mean? If you look at it that way, then, yeah, go do it. Yep. It's probably not something you're signing up for for 20 years. Yeah. I think she could find something else she loves as a practitioner. I'd do it and get that emergency fund knocked out, too. Fast.

You mean come back to the practitioner. Come back later. Yeah. I'd do it, but only if there's a sense of adventure, not a sense of dread. That's right. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, it's Kelly, associate producer and phone screener for The Ramsey Show. If you would like to do your debt-free scream live on the show,

make sure you visit theramseyshow.com and register. We would love for you to come to Nashville and tell Dave your story.