The Ramsey Show - App - Your Worth Is NOT Your Work (Hour 2)

Episode Date: April 22, 2020

Ken Coleman, Paula Faris, Career, Debt Tools to get you started:  Debt Calculator: http://bit.ly/2QIoSPV Insurance Coverage Checkup: http://bit.ly/2BrqEuo Complete Guide to Budgeting: http://bit.ly/2QEyonc Interview Guide: http://bit.ly/2BuGnZE Check out other podcasts in the Ramsey Network: http://bit.ly/2JgzaQR 

🎵 Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, broadcasting from the Dollar Car Rental Studios, it's the Dave Ramsey Show, where debt is dumb, cash is king, and the paid-off home mortgage has taken the place of the BMW as the status symbol of choice. Ken Coleman, Ramsey personality, number one best-selling author, joins me this hour, and you can as well, talking about jobs and careers, and we'll take your calls about money and life as well. It's what we do here.

Open phones at 888-825-5225. That's 888-825-5225. Chris is with us in Nevada. Hi, Chris. Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave. Hey, Ken. How's it going?

Not bad. So I got a question. I'm currently a truck driver making about $60,000 a year, but it's all piecework, so it's up and down. And I went to school to be an electrician, and I have an interview with a union in Nevada. It'll be a pay cut right off the bat, maybe about 30% pay cut, but in the long run, I could double the money. What's the long run? Give me an actual calendar idea of what they're telling you on when you begin to at least

get back to where you are now and then begin to increase. About three to five years. To break even with where you are now? Three years to pretty much break even, five years to exceed. Okay. And that's with one firm. I'm wondering, can you do some electrician work on the side? years to pretty much break even, five years to exceed. Okay. All right. And that's with one firm. I'm wondering, can you do some electrician work on the side?

Are there any limitations to that where you could use that trade to do some work beyond this contract or for this company? There is side work, but I just got to let them know I i just can't work for competitors and if it's slow i should uh get side jobs uh and work for smaller companies just not their main competitors okay so you could you can backfill some of your loss of income with that up until you get to break even anyway so how old are you um 36 so when you're 46 you're an electrician is that what you wanted to do um yeah why i i taught my uncle he's a electrician with the union in new mexico and i've always found it intriguing do you want to work for yourself as an electrician, or do you want to work for somebody else as

an electrician? For somebody else, I've talked to people that took their own businesses, and it was too much of a headache for all the ins and outs of the corporation. Okay. Have you done your homework on how realistic it is for you to backfill through side jobs that are approved to where you can make up the difference? Have you run that out to see is it truly, if you were to step into this electrician job with the side work,

how close you would be to the $60,000 in year one? Have you done that? I've talked with my uncle, and a couple of jobs that are just like an easy outlet replacement could easily make like $50 for less than a 10-minute job. Okay. So the answer is yes. You've done the homework, and you can get close to $60,000 in your first year. That's what you're saying?

Yes, sir. So here's what Ken and I are thinking. I'll go ahead and read his mind because i know how he thinks um if you know you asked the question wrong you said should i take this with a 30 pay cut when the reality is should i take this and if i pick up a bunch of side jobs i probably won't have much pay cut that makes it a no-brainer that's exactly right but if you don't do the side jobs it's not a no-brainer and uh with the the union it's a pension i know you disagree with pensions uh versus more in one case is that almost like a deal breaker no you can do roth iras on the side you can do other investing

on the side don't depend only on a union pension because there's a vast number of stories about how that didn't work out and uh movies made about how it didn't work out so yeah you need to i'm not saying all union pensions are bad they're not but they're not no pension anywhere is as good as you investing on your own and so you need to do that to make sure that your future is in your hands and not in the hands of the union or in the hands of an employer either of any kind. So bottom line is just that that's the problem with pensions is you're not in control of that. So, Ken, you know, sometimes the question answers itself if you add an element to it. And you add the element of the backfill with the extra jobs there, it becomes like a no-brainer because it's something he wants to do.

That's right. Well, and he can also tighten his belt. Sounds to me like he's been listening to your program for a while. He understands how to do a budget. If he doesn't, he needs to be using every dollar. He needs to be working the baby steps right now. And he's going, okay, how long before I'm ready to move into the electrician job? You know, I've told callers on the Ken Coleman Show to pause two or three months.

It's okay to wait a little bit if those two or three months will get you in a financial situation where between the side jobs and the backfill of the current income, he also is cutting expenses, saving some money, and all of a sudden it's really not a leap at all. It's a very purposeful step that has a plan attached to it that's what we teach and in this situation it's about the big picture but if you say okay it's okay to take a pay cut then that means it's okay to not do the side work that's right and it's not okay to not work you need to go do the side work that's the thing to make to make the answer to the question a no-brainer. Eddie's in Texas. Hi, Eddie.

Welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. How are you, Dave? How are you, sir? Better than I deserve, sir. How can we help? Very good, very good. Hey, I've got to tell you, I just found out about your videos and your show last week, but I've been finding myself watching your previous videos for a long time now.

Wow. The past week or so. Well, thank you. I find that your genius is actually in teaching common sense. You're right. To that end, I seek some of that sage wisdom, especially when it comes to hobbies. Flattery will get you everywhere. Feels like he's buttering you up. I'm waiting for this. Yes, sir. So what do you think about this? I went into a little bit with this question. When do you think someone is spending too much money on their hobbies and collecting things?

I'll start by saying that I'm pretty well-modeal. I have no debt. I have a good deal of savings and investments, and I live well below my means. well-to-do, to use your phrase, are the ones that keep luxury items and consumption items at a ratio. It's not an amount of money. It's a percentage of your net worth, a percentage of your income. I'll give you an example. I've got a friend who makes $15 million a year. That's well-to to do, okay?

He bought a $400,000 car not long ago. So that is very similar to someone making $150,000 a year buying a $4,000 car. Right. So it's a very reasonable ratio. Even though I'm from Antioch, Tennessee, it's hard for me to get my head around a $400,000 car, although it is a sweet vehicle, but just the same. I mean, it just blows my mind emotionally.

And so that's what you want to look at. It's not our hobby's evil or is consumption evil. Where you get out of balance is if you buy a car like that and you make $400,000 a year. And you spent one year's income on your car. Well, that's when you're stupid. That's when you just lost your mind. And if your hobbies are consuming such a large percentage of your income or your net worth that you don't have any good investments, that you don't have stability in

your finances, then your hobbies are killing you. And that's a ratio question. Good question, man. Thanks for listening. For most of us, health care costs seem to increase every year and saving money on health insurance feels more and more out of reach. For example, take the Olcheski family from LaGrange, Texas. Jeff and Cherise had just celebrated the birth of a new baby reach. For example, take the Olcheski family from LaGrange, Texas. Jeff and Cherise had just celebrated the birth of a new baby boy. Shortly after, they had a health scare involving one of their kids that was completely unexpected. With today's healthcare climate, this could have bankrupted them. But thanks to Christian Healthcare Ministries, the Olcheskis were spared from a ton of medical bills. As members of Christian Healthcare Ministries, they're part of a group of believers who financially and spiritually support each other. CHM is the original health

cost sharing ministry and is a Better Business Bureau accredited charity. It's biblical, affordable, and it's shared nearly $97,000 to help the Olszewskis. To be a part of Christian Healthcare Ministries, visit chministries.org. That's chministries.org. CHM is a proud sponsor of Dave Ramsey Live Events. chministries.org. As many books as we put out around here, somehow we managed to not launch a book in the middle of the coronavirus suppression. However, a lot of our friends were not that lucky. Oh, we've got a good friend over at ABC News, host of the ABC podcast Journeys of Faith, Paula Ferris.

You know Paula from being the co-anchor on good morning america co-host on the view uh you've seen her everywhere and she and her husband live with three kids in new york and have become good friends of ours and paula has a wonderful new book out with horrible timing to launch a book so you guys are going to help her by helping me and you're going to get her book entitled Called Out, Why I Traded Two Dream Jobs for a Life of True Calling. And Paula, Ken Coleman's on with us this hour as well, and so he'll chime in. How are you? I'm doing really well, Dave. Thank you.

And hi, Ken, some of my favorite people. It's so good to be talking with you on this. Is it Wednesday? I've lost track of, like, the month and the day and the year, but it's good to be with you guys. I do remember the last time we had dinner was Thursday night with a bunch of media folks in New York, and the next day New York closed and hadn't reopened. It's pretty much shut down. It has not reopened. It's kind of crazy. It's a ghost town. We're actually in south carolina right now we left a couple of weeks ago and we're hunkered down with my sister because everything shut down i mean abc told us to stop coming into work and my husband's been working remotely my kids have been out of

school for a long time so we're like let's just go let's go be with family let's hunker down let's get in the great outdoors so that's what we're doing down here in South Carolina. Well, that's a good place to do it. It's a beautiful area. It is. It's beautiful. So the book called out, Why I Traded Two Dream Jobs for a Life of True Calling. The title and the subtitle set us up for a great understanding of really what's in the book. Obviously, you walked away from

uh one thing to something else talk about what you did and why you did it yeah so dave at the height of my career you know the professional high i was experiencing personal low i was you know anchoring good morning america weekend edition i was co-hosting the view and i was really pressing into this calling that you, we think that calling is career and worth is work and value is vocation. Society tells us, you know, that your only good is what you do. You know, what's your name and what do you do for a living? And I pressed in so hard. I leaned in, and then I burned out. You know, professional high, personal low. I had this stirring in my spirit that God was really trying to get my attention to slow down because I looked around me. The landscape, my personal landscape was on fire.

My relationships were suffering with my husband, with my kids, with God. My health started to suffer as well. And I sensed that spirit. I sensed that in my spirit that God said, slow down. I need to call you out of this space. And I refused to listen because I was paralyzed by that fear, fear of what I was walking away from, fear of what people would think of me. She's crazy to leave these jobs. These are two prestigious jobs. She probably couldn't hack it. And then I was scared of what I was walking into.

And Dave, it wasn't until a personal crisis ensued. Within seven months, I experienced a miscarriage and an emergency surgery. I had a concussion. It was a freak accident at work. Someone threw an object at my head when I was getting ready to go live for Good Morning America. The day I got cleared to go back to work after that concussion, I was in a head-on car crash, and then I had influenza, which turned into pneumonia. And I was like, head-on car crash and then I had influenza which turned into pneumonia and I was like all right God you got my attention so I decided to to obey him to walk out of that space to walk away from my addiction of work because my personal life was a flame and then once I did I realized I had no idea who I was outside of it I had misplaced my purpose my significance my identity and what I did and that's really what the book's about it I had misplaced my purpose, my significance, my identity, and what I did.

And that's really what the book's about. It's about misplaced identity and purpose and placing it in things that shift and change like vocation. And it's not just my story. I conduct a lot of interviews with other people that have misplaced their significance. And yeah, I know we're in a pandemic. People are like, this is a terrible time to launch a book. But at the same time, I think we're feeling this loss on a visceral level, whether we've lost jobs, whether we've lost loved ones, whether we've lost wealth, and we're realizing that we've all misplaced our significance and things that change and move in a pandemic. And so what I want to do with the book, I hope people are encouraged and inspired and equipped to really dig in and discover what true calling and true purpose that don't shake, don't move, that aren't uprooted in a personal crisis or a pandemic. And that's what I really hope for the book.

Paula Faris is our guest this segment. The book is Called Out, Why I Traded Two Dream Jobs for a Life of True Calling. You can pick it up anywhere great books are sold. Certainly Amazon will deliver one right to your door. So Ken talks a lot about true calling. So Paula, what is the true calling then? So for me, you know, when we think about calling from society, it's career. But I think it's the same in our faith circles, too.

I remember hearing a prominent speaker say, you don't have to find your calling. Your calling will find you. I don't even really know what that means, Dave. And it's hard to articulate calling outside of career. So, you know, in the space of, you know, true humility where I felt flat on my face and I felt guilty for, you know, placing my significance and worth in what I did. God really revealed that we have two callings on our life. We have a faith calling, which is also your purpose. And it's unmovable, unshakable.

And it is who you are. And it has nothing to do with what you do. It's not career related. So my faith calling, Dave, is to love God and love people. That's never going to change, ever, no matter what I do, no matter if there's a pandemic or a personal crisis. My vocational calling will change throughout my life. And my vocational calling can be seasonal. But my vocation is just the vehicle and the conduit by which I will love God and love people.

It's the vehicle by which I fulfill my purpose and my faith calling. So I don't get so attached. My identity is not wrapped up in doing. I remember that what I'm doing and who I'm doing it for, but it's all rooted in knowing who I am outside of what I do and really accepting that my worth is not my work at all. So for me, just being able to separate those two and get a little bit more nuanced, faith calling, vocational calling, one changes and one doesn't. Paula, you mentioned in your first answer about the real fear that you face and having the opportunity to get to know you and know your story. I know that you were worried about the fear of what's the professional future look like

if you make these changes. And then I think you were, I know you were worried about what peers think. And we all faced that, our family, our friends, colleagues. How did your faith allow you to get on the other side of those fears? Yeah. I mean, the first line of the book, Ken, is there's no rational way to kill your career. So I was so paralyzed by what I was walking away from and what I was walking into. But there's a verse that really, like my faith gets me through absolutely 110%. I keep going back to Joshua 1, and this is a verse that has been steadfast in my life. You know, in the same way that I was with Moses, I will be with you. But in Joshua 1.8 or Joshua 1.9, you know, God has tasked Joshua with taking down Jericho, has he not?

But he first asks him to circle, circle seven times. And so often we feel like we're circling. We know kind of what God wants us to do, but first he wants to see obedience. And so we feel like we're circling. But then he says, have I not commanded you to be strong, to be courageous for the Lord, your God is with you everywhere you go. Don't be afraid and don't be discouraged. So for me, fear is going to, I have to acknowledge that fear is going to be present. I should anticipate fear and big decisions. I should expect it to show up, but I have been commanded by God to press into that.

I have been commanded to push into that into that. I have been commanded to push into that fear. God acknowledges that the fear will be present, but he also promises that he's going to be there with us through it and on the other side of it as well. So I just say, expect it, but it's on us to press into it, to push past it, to take that step of faith, to take that first step on the staircase, when we cannot see the rest of the staircase at all. And it can be terrifying. It's scary. But I know that when God calls you to do something, God will equip you.

In the same way he was with Moses, he will be with you. He has been with me every step of the way. He just wants to see if I'm willing, ready, and able. The book is called out, Why I Traded Two Dream Jobs for a Life of Calling. Paula Ferris. It is an absolute must read. I can tell you Rachel Cruz is a huge fan, has read the book already. I'm a huge fan of her. Yeah, and you need to pick up Paula's podcast, the ABC podcast Journeys of Faith as well. I was honored to be a guest. Paula, thank you for joining us, my friend. Good luck with this book. We'll continue to push it for you. Thank you, Dave. Appreciate it, guys. I appreciate it so much. Godspeed. You too. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Be more intentional with your time and money.

Sign up for e-meals and let them do the thinking for you. They have a shopping list generator that makes it incredibly easy. You can have your meals organized and planned for the week and have your groceries waiting for you when you get to the store. The average customer saves $2,000 a year and two hours a week. Get a free two-week trial at eMeals.com. this is the dave ramsey show thanks for being with us america we appreciate you open phones at 888-825-5225 if you haven't heard for the first time in 30 years, we are authorizing and did about four weeks ago a free 14-day trial, a 14-day free trial to Financial Peace University

and all the stuff that goes with it for the one-year membership, including every dollar, the World's Best Budgeting app in the plus form, meaning you get to connect to your bank, all included. And you can watch all the nine lessons. You can plug into all the communities. There's apps available like the Baby Step Tracker, which if you're a baby stepper and you haven't used the Baby Step Tracker yet, oh, my goodness, you're going to love it.

All of this is free for two weeks. So set yourself up, and you can look fear straight in the face and say, I got this. Or set yourself up and you can say, I wasn't really ready financially for this problem. But next time there's a problem, I will be ready. I'm going to do what it takes to get ready. Go to DaveRamsey.com slash hope, DaveRamsey.com slash hope. Mike is with us. Mike is in Utah. Hey, Mike, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Hi, Ken. Thank you so much for the passion you pour into all your listeners. Thank you. How can we help? Yeah, so I'm a self-employed software and electrical engineer. I've been doing it for

about seven years now, and my ultimate goal and passion is to create a line of my own products, but I have a line of continuous, safe, hourly paid work from my clients. Now, it's been really helpful, and on Baby Step 2, I paid off $290,000 in just one year. Good Lord. I've got $108,000 to go. So the money's great, but this dichotomy seems to put me in a cycle where I've got two really productive weeks and then two really not productive weeks. So I'm wondering if you guys have any advice on leveling that out. I'm sorry, you're staying booked for two weeks, and then you're not booked for two weeks? No, so I'm booked the whole time, but I'm just not

productive, so I get very gazelle intense for two, and then I get two weeks where I basically stare at my computer, and I think it's got to do with me not being passionate about this hourly work. Oh, I see. It's exactly what it is. You run out of emotional steam. I see what you're saying. Okay. Yeah, so what's that dream?

You're creating your own electrical products? Is that what I understood? Yeah, I have two products that I've got out there, but I give them very little attention because it's all speculative, you know, unpaid work versus this hourly work that I can scoop up and get paid for. I'm wondering, though, if you're not finding some reason not to pursue these things because I just heard it in the tone of your voice. Well, they're very speculative. So you've got this dream and you've got these spec products out there and then you've got all this extra work and you're paying off debt and you've got this dream, and you've got these spec products out there, and then you've got all this extra work, and you're paying off debt,

and you've got all these things going on. I think you just need to get really clear about what the future looks like. And the future looks like you want to get debt-free. So what's your payoff time? When do you get out of Baby Step 2? What are you expecting? October, November is my target. That's fantastic.

So you keep walking Dave's baby steps out, right? So now it's baby step three, and you get the emergency fund set up, and you begin the investing in baby step four, and you keep on moving. So at some point, you're going to get to a place where, and I think you're at a place now where there's some margin in your time where you can begin to say, what is the steps that need to take place for me to see if these products have any future? I think you know what that process is these products have any future i think you know

what that process is but i'm curious do you know what it is and do you have a plan to pursue that to test these products at some point in the future when it becomes financially viable yeah here's the way i would do this i have to lay out um and you can do whatever you want. I'm just throwing in an idea. I have to see my way towards the dream and away from the drudge, okay, away from the grind. And so if I'm you, you got until November or October, I'm going to lay that out. I'm going to say every month between now and then, I'm going to take X percent of my hours, and I'm going to, you know,

I'm going to, let's just make up a number okay five percent of my hours this month i'm going to put towards the outside gig 10 next month 15 next month 20 next month and 25 the next month or something like that to where i'm starting to play in the sandbox a little bit i'm increasing as i get closer to the goal. And, of course, when you bust through and you're debt-free, you can put a large chunk of your time towards that because you're making such good money that you could work two weeks on contract and two weeks off once you hit your debt-free goal. So you could be at 50% by then.

But, you know, just start teasing your emotions with a tiny bit of freedom and the fact that you're going to increase it every month as you move towards debt freedom. And then once you're debt free, the need to bear down the way you're bearing down goes away and you can lean over into some of these other areas and lift them up. I kind of got to get I kind of got to wet my whistle a little bit. Well, what will happen is, is he begins to make progress, Dave, on testing these products. What he'll see is, all right, I'm going to need a little bit more money in order to iterate or to actually manufacture something, whatever the product is. You need to create a checklist of what needs to be true. Dave mentioned this in the last hour.

It's a question we ask all the time here at Ramsey Solution. What needs to be true for the dream to actually become a reality? And then you look at, okay, I need some more money. I need some more capital. I can go right back to that contract work, juice my revenue, and put it right into the product. But I think right now you don't have a very clear path towards here are the things that must be true for this dream, this product, to see if these products can actually make it to the marketplace. Once you come up with that, as Dave said, now you've got a rhythm, and you'll find that the juice comes back when you realize you're doing all that contract work because you're doing it for a reason. It's not just money.

Well, there's a light in the tunnel. That's right. The reason you completely flame out is that you can't see that it's ever going to end, and that's what you need. Sean is in Virginia. Hey, Sean, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hi, Dave. Thanks for having me.

Sure. What's up? I am Colin. My wife and I both are physical therapists, and we have acquired a lot of debt going into grad school. And we've been applying your principles, and so far we've done a really good job, and we've paid over $100,000 in 18 months. And we have about $150,000 still left in debt.

And we finally are getting to all the, I guess yours is called like big boy loans. You got $250,000 to become two PTs? Yeah. Well, also with undergrad debt. And school choice. You went to an expensive school too.

Okay. Yeah, the school was a private school. So what's your household income today? Our household income is around $115,000. That's what I was going to guess. It probably should be a little bit more than that. But anyway, yeah, that's a good start. And with that, you've paid off $100,000 so far, and you've got $150,000 to go.

Yes, sir. Half our budget is $8,000 a month is what we're taking home. Yeah, you're over halfway there, so what's your question? So with the forbearance going on, so all of our loans are at 0% interest rate and not having to make a payment until September 30th. So we have one specific loan that's a high interest rate at 6.8 percent at $42,000. Well, doing the math, we've been putting about $4,500 a month. So we were considering attacking that big one that has a high interest that was a grad plus loan and trying to knock that out while the interest rate and we don't

have to make payments on the other ones yeah i would not do that i would list your debt smallest to largest if the minimum payment that you can pay on some is zero, but your smallest debt happens to be one of the 0% zero payment ones, doesn't matter. I would knock that one out. I would not be concerned with interest rate. I would attack. It has served you well.

You're over halfway through. You just need to play through, my man. You need to finish out. Hey, thank you for the call, sir. This is the Dave Ramsey Show. Dental insurance is great if somebody else is paying for it. But if you're footing the bill, OneDental.com is a much better way for my listeners. OneDental.com is a discount membership that gets you unlimited lower rates at the dentist, not just for cleanings,

but even dentures, implants, root canals, braces, and more. Whether you're getting a plan for yourself, your family, or your business, OneDental.com is the way to go. Visit OneDental.com. thanks for joining us america joe is with us in ohio hi joe welcome to the dave ramsey show how can ken and i help good afternoon gentlemen um well i believe your earlier uh guest answered my question but i'll run it by you guys just to get a confirmation on it. 61 years old, totally debt-free, half a million in retirement, probably about $100,000 in savings. Have an opportunity to get back into the sales profession, which I truly love. It'll be selling something I know very well. The startup company, basically, they're rebranding themselves and have turned over some of my old

clients would be, or some of my old clients would be my customers. About 30% increase in base salary with commission options later. And just wondering at this stage in my life with everything that's going on in the, in the, in the world, you know, is it time to move? I'm not, I'm frustrated with the current job that I'm in and just wondering if, you know, is this my calling? Should I go back to sales? Is the field that you're in devastated by or slightly affected by or not affected at all by the corona suppression?

The current field I'm in? No, the one you'd be going into the one i'm going into um has been slightly uh affected but when when the economy when uh it opens back up that field will be booming so and uh okay so it's a good field, it's what you love, and it's more money. Yeah. Former customers. Joe, it's time to go. I think it's, you know, I keep telling myself it's a no-brainer.

What are you afraid of? What are you afraid of? I don't know. To be honest, alienating my current employer or upsetting my current employer. However, a couple of weeks ago, I believe it was Ken was on the show and he said, if you're,

if you're not in your passion, isn't in your job right now, you're doing your employer a disservice. Yeah. And I think that's where I'm at. I just go in, I go through the motions, I produce,

I work for them, although is it 100%? No. And it's really not what I do well. I had a young man working for us a while back that was an absolute rock star. He was absolutely incredible.

And he took a job doing something that he really, really desperately wanted to do. I personally thought it was a mistake as just his older brother looking over his shoulder. But I never said that to him. As an employer, what I chose to do instead was as he was leaving, I just congratulated him, and I'm his biggest cheerleader. So if your current employer is going to be a twerp because you're going to live your dream, he does not have your best interest at heart. He is not a person you want to work for anyway. Joe, you're a good man. It's just dripping off of you.

Everybody can hear it. You have such high character, and you've got a little bit of a people pleaser in you. I have that as well. A lot of us listening in do. And I think that you're worried about disappointing them, maybe not being loyal because they've been so good to you. And that's not the thought process. What you said is right, and I think you are probably given 100%, but you don't feel it in your heart. You need to move into this.

This is absolutely right. It's checked all of the boxes, and your fear of letting someone else down needs to go away because the reality is you'll be letting yourself down. I don't want you to be 71 and look back on this moment and regret that you didn't make this move. Yeah, exactly. And oh, by the way, the 50s, when you're 50 to 60 years old, is typically a person's highest earning decade. And the second highest earning decade is the five years from 60 to 65 if they're in their zone. And these encore careers, we call them, if you're 61 and healthy, you have a life expectancy of 30-plus more years and a work ethic of at least 15 more years.

And so I'm right there with you on age, and I fully intend to keep turning on this microphone until I don't make good sense and they won't let me do it anymore around here because I'm destroying the very thing i built at that point but yeah i i don't have a sense to retire or quit or walk away or when are you going to slow down well yeah right hopefully not anytime soon well i mean you know when america's out of debt what i mean really i mean it's like me and jenny craig got a lot of work to do then we need to cryogenically freeze you then you know one quick thing here for joe and i got a lot of work to do. I think I'm here. Then we need to cryogenically freeze you then. You know, one quick thing here for Joe, and I think a lot of people that go through this, there's a fear of confrontation.

This is not a confrontation, but it feels that way for Joe and a lot of people to have to sit across from somebody and go, listen, I'm leaving you. But it's like the old breakup line. It's not you, it's me. And that's what you got to do. Be grateful. Hey, thank you for giving me this opportunity. You were really good to me. This is a good place but this is a dream i've got to pursue this dream and as you said if you can't you might be sad you might not be thrilled that they're losing you joe because you're a good guy but a healthy person's gonna go well we're sad to lose

you but i understand good on you congratulations yeah bless you. Lord bless you and keep you. Cause his face to shine upon you. You know what I mean? You just, you, you, you, because there's the only other option if somebody's going to quit and go live is be a jerk as they leave. Right. And if that, if you're a jerk as they leave translation, that means you're a jerk. Right.

It's just, it's, so I had to go, okay, this is not really about me. It's about him. He's going to go do his thing. That's right. And so I'm going to bless him. Even though I really, if he had come to me ahead of time and asked me and I was counseling him as a friend, I would have said, I don't think it's a good idea.

I still don't think it's a good idea. It hasn't proven out. But the young guy's going to go do what he's going to do. And I've got to tell you, Dave Ramsey's young guy was going to do what he was going to do. There wasn't any stopping it. In this situation, though, Joe, I think this is a great idea. I think he's going to win big.

Absolutely he's going to win. Absolutely. We're not saying that at all. I'm just saying your employer's reaction is way down on the list of things to worry about. Your current. Michael is in Florida. Hey, Michael, welcome to the Dave Ramsey Show. Hey, Dave, thanks for taking my call.

I appreciate it. Sure, what's up? Hey, so I just want to get your take on a situation of mine. So I'm 20 years old. I'm married. We have one kid. And I wanted to know what you think about this situation. I'm going to be planning on going to PA school. It's a graduate program for a master's. Right now I am working full-time and in school full-time. And I am going to be finishing my bachelor's degree in December. In what?

It's UCF in interdisciplinary studies, but it's to fulfill prerequisites for PA school. Yeah, I got that. I won't have any student loan debt. I pay for school straight out of pocket. Good. So right now my wife and I, we do have the savings. The only debt we have is a car payment, but we're going to be paying that off within the next month or so.

So I just wanted to know, what do you think, to pay for PA school, because when I go to PA school, I'm going to have to quit my job, unfortunately, due to the high demand required on the workload. Do you think that it would be wise to use our savings to pay for PA school, or do you think we should take out any sort of student loans? I've never told anybody I'd take out a student loan in 30 years of doing this show. Yeah. And I would not go to PA school if I had to do it with a student loan. Yeah.

But you don't have to. You've got the money and savings to go. Yeah, we do. You're a stud, man. I mean, I appreciate it, yeah. Listen, if you don't believe in PA school enough to pay for it out of your savings, you shouldn't go. Amen to that.

Yeah. I really appreciate that. Yeah, and, you know, it's something that I've prayed long and hard about, and the job I'm in is a blessing. You kind of knew what I was going to say, didn't you? I did, yeah. I listen to your videos a lot. Yeah.

I binge your videos a lot, and I've been kind of binging them, and I've been kind of studying, and I I've been kind of studying and I was kind of coming into this expecting to know what you're going to say that I want. But not only did you know what I was going to say, you also know I'm right. You have done an incredible job, sir, saving up your money to go get a great degree. PA is a wonderful degree field. Go be what God designed you to be and pay for it. He gave you the money to pay for it. Don't go into debt.

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