The Ramsey Show - App - You’re Not Taking Your Debt Seriously Enough (Hour 1)

Episode Date: July 10, 2024

Live from the headquarters of Ramsey Solutions, it's the Ramsey Show, where we help people build wealth, do work that they love, and create actual, amazing relationships. George Campbell, number one best-selling author of the book Breaking Free from Broke, Ramsey personality, and various other things. He is co-host of the Smart Money Happy Hour, many other things around here. He's my co-host today. Open phones at 888-825-5225. Katie is going to start us off in Akron, Ohio this hour. Hi, Katie. How are you?

Hi, I'm good. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up? Good. So my husband is a physician, so he's got a really good income. But he also has almost $500,000 in student loan debt. We've been married three years, so I kind of married into his debt.

And as such, we're not sure if now is even an acceptable time to be considering buying a couple of new-to-us used cars. Right now, he works out of state and will for the foreseeable future. So he's gone 50% of the time, and I'm here with all the kids. Last week, two of our vehicles were broken down at the same time, so I had no transportation. So we're looking to spend maybe a total of $40,000 on a van and a sedan, and just don't know if we're still supposed to be driving clunkers because of that massive student loan debt. Are we attacking the massive student loan debt? Probably not as fiercely as you would like, which has, and not as fiercely as you would like, um, which has, uh, and not as seriously as I

would like either. Um, because, because this is a second marriage for both of us, we've both had to kind of adjust our, um, financial views a little bit, a little give and take. Um, and so I'm more gung ho than he is, but at the same time, we are still paying them off. We've paid off 100,000 of them in the past two years. What's he make? He makes 400,000 gross. So we're bringing home a little over 18,000 a month. You should be bringing home more than that. Your taxes aren't that high.

It's about 19,000 after taxes and insurance. That's almost 50%. You don't have a 50% tax. There's some kind of problems going on here. Is he investing through his retirement plan? Yes, but that's actually already been maxed out for the year. So yeah, I know. That's why you're taking home less as well that's part of the equation yeah so if we pause investing you could get back 20 grand in your i mean the question is not really cars because based on the way you guys are currently living you're trying to wander out of debt while continuing to do investing and while you have but do this you make 400,000 you only paid off 100 grand in two years I mean and it's just awful so um you know there's no intensity at all we do

also have a lot of expenses that others may not have with him working out of state he has to maintain an apartment out of state um we have three well I have three step kids that live in a different state that he has to go out there to visit on a monthly basis um and so hotel rooms and travel for that um and then yeah but truthfully katie you told you told us you guys are not intense you guys are not working our system okay i'm not'm not mad at you, but so I don't know why, whether you buy a car matters. I mean, if you want to go buy a car, buy a car, if you're going to keep working at this way, but you're going to struggle as long as you continue to do this. And so, um, you know, it's, um, you guys are going to have

to decide if you're going to lean into this debt thing and get rid of the debt. If you're going to lean into it, then stop the 401k and buy one $10,000 car and get rid of these two pieces of crap that keep breaking down. But, you know, as long as y'all keep acting like people that make $400,000, you're going to keep spending what you're spending, and you're going to justify it and rationalize it, and you're going to stay in debt. You're going to keep spending what you're spending, and you're going to justify it and rationalize it, and you're going to stay in debt. You're not going to get out. So, you know, it doesn't matter. You know, the $10,000 car doesn't matter. But what it does do, what the question does do in your house, not with us, it doesn't affect us, but between the two of you, it causes you to say, okay, are we going to do this or not?

Are we going to keep limping through this? Because at this current rate, you're going to be in debt for 10 years. And that's just, you know, that's not a plan. You know, it's not a good plan. But and if you're going to do that, then yeah, sure, buy a car. I mean, it's not all the cars you want to buy. I don't care. I mean, it's not it because it doesn't what you're doing is you're half butt doing everything

and that's just not gonna the everything we teach anyway so um yeah you guys need to have a discussion about this okay we need to sit down and make the money we have behave better and we need to behave better and um we need to get very, very intense because you are a broke doctor's wife. You're married to a doctor who is broke, broke, poor people making 400 grand. That's what you are. So you guys got to decide if that's how you want to live or not. I don't want to live like that. So yeah, part of this is getting a line going, all right, how much can and should we be throwing at this debt? We want to be done in three years.

Okay, that's $170,000 a year we got to be throwing at this. What does that take per month? Once you make it mathematical. And what must be true. Yeah, we got to cut some lifestyle expenses. What has to be true of our lifestyle? What has to be true of the travel apartment? What has to be true about this and true about that? And what's the way we can, for a short period of time, what can we sacrifice?

And that's what you do, regardless if you make 40 grand or you make 400 grand. Maybe you can repair the cars for five grand instead of spending 40, and that buys you a few years. Who knows? Yeah. But i think what this highlights is not a car issue what it highlights is the issue that you guys are the plan you're working you know is not not working not well and you're not on the same page and you guys probably need to talk about what the flip we're going to do going forward i mean that then that will answer your car question and do you even have 40 grand in cash to pay for this yeah probably not open phones at 888-825-5225 jump in we'll talk about your life and your money so um george one of the things that happens, and it happened with me, I didn't have a choice because I went broke.

But you can choose to take away all your options. You can choose to take away all your rationalizations. You can choose to do this. And you have to kind of run a mental scenario. I always tell people, like, okay okay you have no money what if you had to have ten thousand dollars by christmas to save the life of your child with a medical procedure and you couldn't borrow it what would you do you'd find it you'd find it and all of a sudden all this oh i have to do this i have to do that and bullcrap we're getting ten thousand dollars you make it a priority it happens it's like it's life or death

whatever you focus on so you'll see all of a sudden all that all this stuff we think we need when you are trying to save the life you know when you put it in that kind of a mental gymnastic routine then you know then you're forced into looking at your life realistically. Yeah, because dead isn't life or death, but you kind of have to make it that way in order to get out. No, it's not. But if you say, if you act like that's how important this is, until it becomes important, you're not going to do it.

That's the thing. As long as there's something else that's more important, you're not going to do it. This is The Ramsey Show. Hey, you guys, health insurance costs are only moving one way, and that way isn't down. And if higher costs aren't enough, the wait times to see your doctor are longer, and it's harder than ever to get anything approved through the bureaucracy. So if you feel like the system is working against you, try a biblically-based alternative to health insurance, Christian Healthcare Ministries.

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big-time important so right now RamseySolutions.com slash agent. Pim is with us in Pittsburgh. Hi, Pim. How are you? Good. How are you guys? Better than we deserve. What's up?

Yeah, so just a little back story. My wife and I are followers of the Baby Steps. We're on four, five, and six. We have about $65,000 left on our mortgage. Way to go be completely debt free so um that being said um my in-laws her parents are not they don't see eye to eye with that they kind of do their own thing i don't agree with anything financially that they do pretty much but that's them that being said said, they redid their will and were kind of updating it and kind of going over it with us. They want to leave us a timeshare and two rental properties,

and we don't want any of it. My wife and I, we don't want to be landlords, ever be landlords. That's not something we want to do. And it's her parents, right? It's her parents, yeah. Now the problem really comes in where I'm a little bit more vocal than my wife. So now I look like I'm not appreciative. You've already said all this, right?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. It hasn't gone very well. I mean, I try to kind of say that, you know, it's, I mean, but basically it's like I think this is like especially the rental, not so much the timeshare, the rental stuff, I think they view as a legacy, I guess.

But it's not something that i mean my even if someone were to give us a million dollars right now my wife and i would not buy a rental property it's just not something that's fine yeah that's cool want to get into so well this is how to kind of yeah i mean go around it but be direct well i think you've already been direct yeah and now you're accused of being the ungrateful son-in-law right who's spoiling the whole family messing up the whole thing it was all going good till you came along have they ever liked you pimp has this always been a tumultuous relationship? No, no. Honestly, it's been good.

But like I said, it's just we've never kind of – they just, like I said, they don't do – Okay, so you said to them, I don't want this, and now that hurt their feelings. That's where we sit today, correct? Yeah, pretty much okay so what would you think then what you know i don't know what to do to solve that other than it's been said because you don't need to say it again right right you told them we don't want this and they're and then they got their little feelings hurt yeah Yeah. So, I mean, I don't know if we just bite the bullet and whenever that day comes, we could just tell it or. No. I think your conclusion is correct.

The only thing I would have said if you'd have called me before you talked to him about it would have just been your wife needed to tell him, not you. Gotcha. I mean, she was there. I know, but she didn't carry the weight of it you carried the weight of it it's different when it comes from their own daughter yeah dad i love you and i appreciate you we do things different i don't want to be a landlord i know it means a lot to you to have these rental properties but dad i don't want to be a landlord thank you it's very kind of you and i don't certainly don't want dadgum timeshare it's legalized fraud i don't want

anything to do with it it's the worst industry on the planet and so um i mean you know she doesn't say all that but she could just say dad i love you but no and and you sit there with your mouth shut that would have been the only thing i would have changed about this scenario but it's too late that cat's out of the bag now right right yeah no take backs any more discussions need to come from her okay if you want to have a follow-up and make sure it's that the will is changed or whatever it needs to come from her otherwise if they die die and you're still in the will with this stuff you just put the rental properties on the market and sell them and you never take the timeshare into your name and just let it go into default okay that was going to be my next question can i because i i did some research and looks like

as long as you don't kind of sign any paperwork never touch never touch anything don't even discuss the timeshare just pretend like it didn't exist and it will just it'll it will deteriorate and it will go its own way. And they can't go after like... They can't come after me for their timeshare. And they can't come after you for their timeshare. Because neither one of us did this deal. Okay. Yeah, you can't force a contract by inheritance.

Okay. You'd have to be dumb enough to sign it when they put it in front of you. Okay. Now, if you just say, no, no, you people can have that. Just take that back. Well, we'll sue you. Who are you going to sue? The estate?

Yeah, good luck with that. You know, because they're not going to. Timeshare people are just gross. They'll move on and find another victim. Yeah, they're looking for old people that they can feed off of, and they bus them in from the Walmart parking lot and sell them, pressure them with a free meal or a free hotel room. Oh, yeah.

That happened on our honeymoon. First thing, first person you interact with is the timeshare salesman when you get to the resort. And I said, no, thank you. There's nothing you could offer us that would make sitting through three hours of this hell worth it. Jeez, man. It's like, you know, they're just, it's the scummiest thing.

Oh, yeah. Anyway, so, dude, your wife has to talk about this. You can never talk about it again to them. You can only encourage her and cause her to have courage to be clear and kind and grateful and the answer is no anytime it comes up that anything you can do like that but yeah you just you can't do there's those convinced against their will are of the same opinion still and sons-in-law are not usually in a position of strength to uh take this on our daughters-in-law you know know, you got to take care of your own blood there. It's the best possible probability of this turning out well relationally.

Anyway, for the rest of you out there, if you're facing that. Billy's in Chattanooga. Hi, Billy, how are you? Billy? Billy. Hey, Dave, I'm good. How are you? are you better now that i found you what's up so i have a question for you um i think you'll feel a certain type of way about it but i accidentally made a lot of money in crypto um and i'm wondering what would be smartest to do with it.

I'm still riding it right now. Back in 2020, I put about $12,000 in. It turned into $800,000 in less than a year. I thought I was very smart, and I was like, well, if I wait for over a year, I'll save a bundle on taxes. So I'll just sell 10% or enough for a house and let the rest ride. And then the rest crashed down to about $16,000. Oh, my goodness.

You went from $12,000 to $800,000 to $16,000? Yes. But now, so this is, I bought a house since then with that 10% that I sold. It's coming back up quick and fast. And I'm wondering if I should just pay off the house altogether and be done with it with that. I'm going to be way more conservative than I was last time. I'm not going to expect for it to get back up that high. George and I would tell you to cash out any crypto today by the end of the day and then work the baby steps with it.

Pay the consumer debts first, get the emergency fund, then the house. Yeah. Work the baby steps with it. And we're not hanging on until tomorrow, doing it by the, then the house. Yeah. Work the baby steps with it, but yeah. And we're not hanging on until tomorrow, doing it by the end of the day today. Too much anxiety for me. Yeah. This is The Ramsey Show. This show is sponsored by BetterHelp. All right, so I was born and raised in Texas, and I love the myth of the lone cowboy. You know, the guy who doesn't need anyone or anything. It's a fun story, and it's a lie.

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That's betterhelp, H-E-L-P, dot com slash Ramsey Radio. George Campbell, Ramsey personality, is my co-host today. We need your help, guys. You can help us, and a bunch of you have been helping us thank you if you will click the subscribe button or the follow button on your spotify or apple or youtube or wherever it is you're listening or watching it really helps our numbers it really helps our algorithm uh pushing the show forward in those things. And that way, a lot of people that don't know about this find out about it. You can also, if it has a share button where you can share it with friends, do that or cut the link out and email it to somebody and go, this is, you got to check this out.

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For sure. Stephanie's in Eugene, Oregon. Hi, Stephanie. How are you? I'm doing well. How are you? Better than I deserve. What's up?

Well, one hill I will die on is that you deserve all the good you have and more for all the good that you've done. I have a question that I'll try to keep simple in a really complicated situation. I am, uh, my dad's oldest daughter. I'm helping him with his trust. We've got a really great attorney that's helping us. We're in the formation process of that. And we're, we're learning as we go. Um, I am one of four children with the addition of a fifth child that my dad had with his

second wife who was abducted when he was two. And now that son would be 31. And my dad's wanting to include him in the trust with conditions like that he can prove his identity and that kind of stuff. And I'm just trying to know what the best way is to do this, if that makes any sense. He's been gone for 28 years out of the family. None of us know.

My sister knew him. I didn't really know him. He doesn't, as far as I know, know we exist, but my dad's wanting to include him in the trust with contingency that he, like, changed his name back and that kind of stuff. And I just really want to honor my dad's wishes, but I'm not sure how to handle this the best way. Wow. Okay, so what is it you want to handle?

I mean, if your dad wants to put him in the trust, you put him in the trust, you put the conditions on it, and then how do you handle it when your dad passes? Yeah, because one of the conditions my dad is considering is that if he wants to reintegrate back into the family and and but he doesn't even why don't if he wants to do all that why don't he call him right now well he's working on that he's trying to he's trying to locate him before he dies but this is kind of y'all don't even know where he is we we might we don't know for sure he's had his name and identity changed but we think we might have found a city so we're working on that in the meantime but the trust has to go you know kind of go assuming that that maybe we don't find him before my dad passes okay well you'd have to ask your attorney for Oregon law on that but I would suppose you could put a clause in there that if we can't locate him within

you know x number of months then this clot then all of that all of their shares just revert revert to the other kids okay and you And, you know, your dad has to believe that you all are really going to look for him. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Because you could just not locate him. You could just, I mean, if you wanted to not do your dad's wishes, which you're not saying, okay, but you could just not try with that clause, and then the shares would all revert to you guys the rest yeah i think i think that's mostly in the attorney's hands that he would be the one that would that's part of

what's happening is that the attorney would be the one to hunt him down so i don't think it would be i don't think we would have the ability to drop that ball the way that it's being written up okay all right the attorney can't find him within X number of days, 180 days, and or if he does find him, he won't meet the guidelines that your dad's putting in place if he won't agree to do those things. Like he just gives you guys the bird after you find him, right? Mm-hmm.

Which very well might happen. I mean, this is going to be weird for him i know and i feel really sad for him because he was two years old when he was taken and as far as taken by his mother yes okay all right and so she just she just jet she just jetted with the kid before amber alert and exactly she's Amber Alert and never found her. Is mom still around? Do we have contact with her? No, no.

She changed her name. She changed the boy's name and her youngest son from a previous marriage. But her older sons, their names are still true. And that's how we've kind of been able to make some connections on Facebook. It's like a true crime podcast yeah yeah well i think you guys from a relational standpoint i think it's a i think your dad um if he if he wants to go this far and and you know be a blessing financially to this child uh my advice to him would be you guys pull out all the stops right now you hire private detectives you go find the guy uh-huh right now okay while your dad's alive okay that's that's

just a practical piece of advice it's not legal or financial because it's going to be a whole lot easier to figure out what the flip to do once you can locate the guy and actually begin a conversation right uh but if you otherwise i guess you just put it in the trust. Again, I don't know Oregon law, but you'd have to, and I assume most areas you could just put a clause in the trust that if the attorney cannot find, within 180 days of death, cannot find him or whatever number of days, then the shares revert to you guys.

And or if you do find him and he chooses not to meet the the obligations your dad put in place the guidelines right is your dad in good health no okay yeah no that's that's why we're making some moves on this um i mean he might live another decade but he might go tomorrow it's It's one of those unknown things. Is it appropriate to require possibly a DNA test as part of this brother proving his identity in the test? Sure. Okay. I mean, we know exactly who he is.

He looks just like my dad and everything, but it would be more if there was other family who tried to contest it. His other family that tried to contest it his his other family that tried to contest it if that was ever an issue um they don't get to they don't have a they don't have a standing with the court to contest the will because they're not a participant the only thing they would do is just stir up trouble but i mean they're not there's nothing legally that they could do like i don't i couldn't come in out of the blue and jump into your all's deal. You know, George couldn't and contest. You can't contest something you don't have anything to do with. And all the rest of that bunch has nothing to do with this. Yeah.

His other half-brothers and his mother who's nutty and all this other stuff. Right. I'm definitely trying to keep it just about the mechanics of the trust because there's lots of different emotions involved, and more than anything, I just really want to honor what my dad's desire is for this. Yeah. Well, your dad is being unfair to the rest of you all to leave this to you to do. He should go do it now i'm

sorry it what find the brother find him and re-establish contact yes he's he's actively working on that okay we're we've got like plans a b and c in place and some things are still unknown so he's actively working on this a massive wealth, Stephanie? What is the estate? It's more than he ever thought he would. He's got a couple of properties that we would sell, and currently it would be between five, probably five and $900,000. Split between the five of you? Okay.

Yeah. But there's a possibility that just part of it would go five ways and the rest of it would just go four ways if this brother doesn't want to participate. That's stuff we're still trying to figure out. Yeah, I just think you're going to get the guidelines. It's two, three paragraphs in this trust. It doesn't have to be rocket science. You know, here's the things that we're requiring. A DNA test, some other proof of identity, integration back into the family.

Changing the name. And changing the name. And we require those things. But it's for $100,000? He may not want to do it. It's a lot to ask. I mean, you've not got a lot of leverage here. This is your dad trying to make good too many years too late.

This is The Ramsey Show. George Campbell, Ramsey Personalities, my co-host today. Tyler is in Alabama, Birmingham to be precise. Hey, Tyler, what's up? Hey, Dave, I'm good. How are you doing? Better than I deserve. How can I help? Yeah, so I'm trying to invite the ways of Dave into the house. Um, and it seems like getting traction is kind of tough. Um, me and my wife, we've overcome a lot in the past

five or six years and money's kind of the next thing up for us to start handling. Um, got a young family, two boys, six and five years old. Um, the, I want to start doing the baby steps. The math is there. I make enough and I have enough left over to start getting some traction, but it's, you know, at the end of the month, we're like, where'd it go? We feel like we're not doing anything extravagant, but obviously we are. It's just seems like fast food and gas stations and then Mother's Day, birthdays, et cetera, you know.

But whenever it seems like whenever the money conversation comes up, there's just a lot of emotion tied to it, and it kind of devolves into either emotions or a little bit of finger pointing and things like that. So I just wanted y'all's advice on how to kind of get this thing going. That was pretty vague. You're saying you're having a discussion using the tone that you're using with us right now, or you're emotional?

I get there. Probably to my own fault, I kind of wait until I'm aggravated and impatient about money, and that's when I want to talk about it, you know? Yeah, that is your fault. You're right. Right. And she's emotional, too? Yeah.

You sort of push each other's buttons when this comes up. Let me backtrack a second. You said we've overcome a lot. What does that mean? So we've been sober, clean and sober from drugs and alcohol for about six years. Good for you. Congratulations. How long have you been married?

Yeah, I appreciate it. For the same amount of time thereabout. Got married a little bit before we got you. Congratulations. How long have you been married? I appreciate it. For the same amount of time there about. Got married a little bit before we got clean. Wow. And what do you do for a living? I'm a field manager for HVAC company, a residential company here in Birmingham. And what's your household income? It's a hundred K salary right now. This is the first year that they're introducing a uh a profit bonus at the end of the year but i don't really know what to expect so i'm not really counting those chickens before they hatch so i'm just kind of fair enough on the budget i'm sticking to 100k so how old are you i am 28 years old okay good good well that that so all of that is part of this story the uh the the budget conversation the two of you sitting

down includes all of your stuff from the past right and all of your things out of your the thing you way you grew up it includes um uh, the, the way you have money was handled at your house when you're a kid, the way money was handled at her house when she was a kid, um, the getting clean and the having been, uh, needing to get clean, uh, then, uh, now you're making more money than you've ever made in your life. All of that comes, all of that adds to it. So, you know, what I would suggest is that you start over with the approach and you start tonight. When you're calm. And you sit down, yeah, number one, when you're calm,

not when you're frustrated. And I think you probably start with an apology. Like, I think we can do better with our money and I've not handled our discussions very well. I've screwed this up. I'm sorry. Because you are. You should be.

Yeah, sure. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I'll be the first to tell you, if I'm at fault in the way that I kind of had to be in charge of the system at first, I was a couple steps ahead as far as getting clean when it all first started out. So there's some echoes of some fear. Exactly. All those concerns.

It's control issues. Okay, today we're clean and have been a long time. Today, this is you talking to your wife, we make more money than we've ever made, and we're both sober and smart. So today, if we were to start doing a budget or start talking about money, it's going to be different than it was in the past. Today, we both have a vote. Today, we would consider everything together and decide as a team

what we are going to do with our money. And so you get a vote, I get a vote. We're going to sit here and talk about it. And, and, you know, you don't, you don't start talking about what to do until you talk about why to do it. Because I think if I make a hundred thousand dollars a year, A, we could clean up our mess. B, we could become wealthy. And C, we could travel or have nice cars that are paid for. We can move up in-house. All of those things can happen if we can get our hands around this subject. And I think that would be exciting.

And kind of start dreaming together again about what a really cool, prosperous future would look like. Does that make sense? Then talk about what? But husbands typically were the worst. Sometimes wives do it, but it's usually husbands. We talk about what to do because we're going to jump in there and fix it. And so Dave Ramsey says, you need to sell your car. Yeah.

You know, and that crap, then you turn my name into a cuss word and i didn't even do anything you know right and so that's that's you got to sit down and talk about let's talk about big picture i think you know we've got this trash in our rear view mirror we've got sunshine out the windshield we could really have an incredible life we could change our family tree ike i get excited about and talk and get her and then shut up and let her tell you what she'd like to do ask her questions hey what are you excited about what are you dreaming about if we had a million dollars what would you want to do. Okay, now let's go get a million dollars. Then she's excited about the plan. And she's not got you coming at her with finger wagging and going,

you know, if you just quit going Chick-fil-A every day, we could do this. You know? You can't do that. That crap doesn't work, man. So we both are going to – I think we could lay out a plan together that we both agree on and stick to and um we can do with our money smart things and have some fun along the way and become wealthy and and i think that kind of lingo that kind of sentence structure is what's going to help you george what are y'all well and then you go sentence structure is what's going to help you. George, what do y'all?

Well, and then you go and listen, this is not going to be my harebrained plan. I've got, I found this plan. Millions of people have done it. It's so simple and yet it's hard because it's going to take us making some sacrifices. But you look at it and see if you think it's good. Yeah. And she checks it out and give her a vote. Because right now, a lot of the times with your excitement or passion or frustration, it just comes across.

It brings the echo back from the days when you had firm fist on the money because she wasn't clean yet. Right. And she feels like you're taking that control away again. You're marching back into her life with muddy boots again. And so you're bringing up. Now, I'm going to send you Rachel's book for both of you to read. Know yourself, know your money. Because it goes into the household you grew up in.

It goes into are you a scarcity person or an abundance person? It goes into all of those things enter into this discussion. And all of the stuff in that book is why the budget committee meeting, we call it, is a difficult meeting at first, because you bring all these suitcases full of crap into the meeting. All your shame, guilt, baggage, mistakes, family trauma, it comes with you. Yeah. And you got to be the ones to change it generationally. Accusations, all these things come in there.

And so you got to go, okay, we don't do that anymore. And so, and you guys out there that it does take a little while to build trust. It takes a little while to, Sharon at first didn't believe she had a vote. Even though you told her, hey, you've got to vote vote you've got to show her with your action she had to you know she had to experience it for a while because for a long while she didn't have a vote and i just did whatever flip i want to do and so you know we've been married 43 years she said you know somewhere around 35 of them are awesome that's a pretty good track record the more the time goes on yeah the better percentage you have.

And it's like, you know, how many years? Think about it. We went completely broke, lost everything. They took the water meter out of the front of the house because I kept turning it back on after they turned it off. And they just took it away. They took it away. I didn't know you could do that.

Well, they have to when you keep stealing water, and that's what I was doing. So, I mean, we were that broke. So we went from this level of terror to having an emergency fund and how many years do you think that we had to not touch that emergency fund for her to heal multiple tart to be out three five wasn't 10 minutes baby i can tell you that it wasn't just because i said it it took a little time it's a process this is the Ramsey Show. Thank you.