Live Like a Girl with Dr. Mindy Pelz - Embracing Audacity: Anne Marie Anderson on Transitioning Boldly Through Midlife

Episode Date: April 7, 2025

Who is in Your Front Row? Join 3-time Emmy Award-winning broadcaster Anne Marie Anderson as she teaches you how to build your team! Discover how to prioritize yourself without guilt, differentiate between urgent and important tasks, and even learn to enjoy rejection! Dr. Mindy and Anne Marie share personal stories of overcoming fear and rejection and reveal why being a cocky isn't a bad thing, by definition! This episode is perfect for anyone who struggles to put their own needs first! To view full show notes, more information on our guests, resources mentioned in the episode, discount codes, transcripts, and more, visit https://drmindypelz.com/ep282 Anne Marie Anderson is a three-time Emmy Award-winning broadcaster and keynote speaker with over 30 years in sports television. She has covered six Olympic Games and major sporting events like the Super Bowl and NBA playoffs. Known for her contributions to ESPN's SportsCenter, she transitioned to being one of the leading female play-by-play announcers, calling over 75 live events annually for networks including ESPN and NBC. Recognized for her journalism and leadership in sports, her signature keynote, Building an Audacious Mindset, encourages audiences to challenge conventional thinking and create successful professional lives. Drawing on her experiences with top coaches and executives, Anderson provides actionable insights and examples for building high-performing teams.   Check out our fasting membership at resetacademy.drmindypelz.com. Please note our medical disclaimer.

On this episode of The Resetter Podcast, I bring you Anne Marie Anderson. Now, some of you, if you're listening to this on your headphones, may realize that Anne Marie's voice is familiar to you. If you watch this on YouTube, you might recognize her face because she is a three-time Emmy Award-winning broadcaster and a keynote speaker. She has over 30 years experience in sports television. She has covered over six Olympic games and major sporting events like the Super Bowl and the NBA playoffs. And she is known for her contributions on ESPN Sports Center. And what she's bringing to us today is the information and the thought about what it looks like to live. a bold and audacious life. This is a part of her new book called Cultivating Audacity. And if you're one of

those people that is like, well, I don't really want to live an audacious life, or maybe you have a negative connotation of what audacity means, I want you to rethink it. And those of you that are in the middle of a life transition, which is a lot of us, especially as we move through metapause, especially as we change careers. We're empty nesters. We're moving. That in those transition moments, we can either find our confidence. We can find a new path of boldness, or we can slip back into a smaller version of ourselves that is comfortable staying the same. This is really a conversation about mastering transition. And how do we do it in a way that is authentic to us?

So this is why I wanted to bring her to you is so many of us are on new journeys in our life. And what you're going to hear in this conversation is how do we deal with the inner critic? How do we know what we want? How do we even figure out what we want? how do we surround ourselves with people that make our transitional moment so much easier? And at the end, you'll hear us even land on what is the health benefit of living your true, authentic, audacious life. It is a really applicable conversation.

That's what I want you to know. Like, you're going to walk out of this podcast and you're going to have some tools. This isn't just Anne-Marie and I just batting around some ideas. You're literally going to have some tools for time management, tools for that inner critic. It is, she is no nonsense. She is inspiring and she is bringing forward something to the world, especially to the menopausal world, that really needs to be heard, which is this is our moment to finally live life on our terms and how the heck do we do it.

Anne-Marie is going to teach us. So enjoy. And her book, Cultivating Audacity is out. We will leave links. You can dive into it at the end of this podcast. She even talks about all the things we can expect in there. So really great conversation that I know many of you will enjoy and we'll walk away from ready to continue to live life on your terms. Enjoy. Welcome to the Resetter podcast. This podcast is all about empowering you. to believe in yourself again. If you have a passion for learning, if you're looking to be in control of your health and take your power back, this is the podcast for you. Let me just start off by welcoming you, Emory, to the Resetter podcast. I not only do I want to have this discussion with you, but I'm pretty sure my listeners are dying for this discussion. So I just want to say welcome.

Thank you. We're going to have fun. I love to talk about it. this. Yeah. And you know, it's funny as we were preparing ahead of time before we hit the record button, I was thinking about this moment of 50 that what happened to not just me but my friend group. And it was fascinating because on one hand, like for me, I am 55, I got into my 50s and all of a sudden, I hit the peak of my career. And I think that happens to a lot of women when they go into their 50s. On the other hand, I have some amazing friends that are incredible mothers. And they stayed at home and they hit like full on launching their children out into the world. And they were looking at like what that next level is. Were they going back into her?

a career. Were they going to go learn? Like, I'm one friend who's a philanthropist and like, were they going to go learn something? And I'd say all this because I think as we enter our 50s, this is the moment in which so many women are like, whoa, what do I do now? Yep. It's your second act, right? Yes. It's your second act. I mean, whether you're in a career you love and you just want to kind of level it up or, you know, shed any kind of inhibition about it. Or you're somebody who's having a change in your life, the kid's out, and you're thinking, maybe I, did I miss the boat? Like, yeah. Am I, am I too late? And the answer is no. No, you are not too late. You are right on time. Truly. There's so much that can be accomplished at this stage of life without a lot of the

insecurities and ideas and hangups about what other people think. Yeah. So when you hit that moment, I've got to say that even when you've gone from such a structured life, especially if you've got kids, especially if you have had a career or both, it is terrifying to all of a sudden realize you have the freedom to choose yourself. Yeah. Now, if my 40-year-old self had heard that, she'd be like, what are you talking about terrifying? I just want to go to the bathroom by myself.

But there is something terrifying about hitting the moment and realizing that now you get to choose you. How do we help women go from that place of constantly giving themselves away, constantly people-pleasing, constantly doing what's for everybody else? and then making a 180 degree shift into what do I do? That transition is a very circuitous one, and I believe much of your book can help us with that. How do we make that transition? Well, I think about the way that I've cared.

I have three children as well. The way that I care for my children and the way that I thought, I don't want to control what they do. I want to guide them to explore to their best path. it's the same thing in the way that we talk to ourselves is, you know, you don't have to control yourself and say you have to fit into some kind of box after 50 or, you know, I have to play between the lines. I mean, I feel like after 50 is when you get to color outside the lines and kind of see what feels right and feels good. And so I think the first step to doing that is to figure out not just what it is you want to do, but why you want to do.

do it. Because I think that motivation is so important. If you want to do it to prove somebody else wrong or, you know, to get noticed by some, these are all motivations that don't work. They're external motivations. But if you can really pinpoint why you want to make this new step, new change, then I think you've really got something going. And it can be for any reason. I mean, it can be anything from wanting to leave a bad relationship so you can live more in peace to you know, working, you know, moving your to a little beach town because you want to have a better quality of life and working from home that way. It can be anything you want, but it is about like, why do you want to make the change? For what reason? And my experience with a lot of women at that

transition is we don't know why. And I think part of that is because we've never actually sat and with ourselves and asked ourselves. It was never. important, everybody else's opinion, everybody else's needs came in front of our own. And I've told this story before on my podcast here. Last July, I actually hit a moment where I finally sat with myself and asked myself what I wanted to create in my life. And for about a week. And here I am, like, I've written books and I've got, you know, a big following and I had an amazing clinic that I clothes to keep writing more books. And when I sat with myself for one week asking myself, what do I want? No, you can't think about your spouse. You can't think about your career.

You can't think about your kids. Mindy, what do you want? What do you want? I literally came up empty. And it took me. Interesting. Yeah. And it took me some real soul searching because I realized I have spent my whole life thinking and caring for everybody else. And I'd never really trained the neurons in my brain to actually put me first. So is there a strategy before we go into the why you would want to change? How do we even go before that? How do you cultivate this like relationship with yourself. Like how do you help yourself? Help yourself. Does that make sense? Yeah, for sure. I mean, for me, I, the way that I kind of looked at things, right, because I've had a career in television for 35 years, I'm still a broadcaster for ESPN, but I wanted to take more control.

I wanted to hire myself. That was the thing for me. I wanted to hire myself. I was tired of asking other people. And so I kind of made, and it's in the book, too, an inverted triangle where I put at the top, what do I love to do? Like, what do I really enjoy? And then, like, from that, I made it, like, kind of like a filter I called this funnel. And then the next thing was like, what am I good at? And it goes along with the Icky guy principles, right? What is the world need? And what can I get paid for? And it was interesting to me to kind of see what would bring me joy. Like, what does bring me joy? And I, I'm right with you. Like, friend group. What friend group? Right? I got, you know, I got, you know, I, I got my text friends and the parents of my friends on their sporting teams.

Yes. I wasn't nurturing like my own friend group. And I thought, you know, I need to nurture that a little bit. How do I plug that in? My life is so busy. So it's about like what asking yourself continuously, and it sounds like you did this. Like what actually brings me joy and what do I want to have more of in my life? In any way, whether it's relationships with girlfriends, whether it is travel,

whatever it is, is kind of tapping into like, what brings me joy? What makes me happy? Yeah. And then seeing from there is like the seed of what your next move is. Got it. Okay. And what would you say to the people, and this wasn't me, but to the people that are like, well, I'm not, I really what brought me joy was being needed. I was needed by my children. I was needed by, you know, I was the ultimate soccer mom that brought the snacks. I was needed and now I'm not needed. That people pleasing part of women sometimes gets, overrides us so much that we actually have this sort of toxic relationship with people needing us. What happens if that's what brought me joy?

And now I'm asking myself, well, what brings me joy now? And it's like, well, I need to be needed, but all the people that needed you are gone. Yeah, except you need yourself at this point. That's one. And then, two, I mean, I feel like everything's a clue always. So I feel like, okay, if you're, if what makes you happy is service-minded, right? Other people needing you, then when you talk about what fills your cup, what kind of service do you want to provide to the world? What kind of service makes you most happy?

I mean, if your identity, and I'm with you, this isn't me either, but if your identity is, you know, providing service, feeling needed that way. I think you can build the next step in your life to filling a need for others. It's just not going to be, you know, closely, it just really won't resemble necessarily what it's like to take care of your kids and take care of your family. To me, that feels a lot like you're not necessarily taking care of yourself or paying attention to your own needs. So that's like, that's the first question I'd ask somebody who has that response is like, how do you make sure you have what you need to be able to give?

Have you really been taking care of yourself that way? Yeah. You know, it's interesting. I believe in there's always a balance. Krasno on the podcast and he just put out a book called Good Stress. And we talked about how there's always a balance of energies within the physiology of the body. But I think what you're talking about there is like, if everybody has needed you, how do you need you? Like how do you balance yourself back because you've been giving, giving, giving, giving? How do you balance yourself back? So I can see it through that lens in what you're saying. I wonder, too, if there's some guilt about needing.

You know, like if something in our mind says, like, I shouldn't need anything. I've got everything in the world that I want, a healthy family, whatever it is. And so there's some kind of guilt or shame inside because I think sometimes the word need, people may think, well, that's selfish. Yeah. And, you know, so it's kind of releasing some of the preconceived ideas we have about certain words, you know, certainly like audacity. There's all kinds of preconceived notions about what audacity is.

Cocky, there's a story in the book about how when I was elected, my father said, Amory, you're getting kind of cocky. Now, my father, like, was my biggest supporter, just always in my front row cheering. One time when I was 11, he said, Amory, I think you're getting cocky. And I held onto it forever because I had these ideas of what cocky meant. And gosh, I don't want to be cocky. I don't want to, you know, always. And I even let it hold me back in my television career for a while because I didn't want to come off as cocky. And Mindy, it was only when I was writing this book that I looked up the definition of cocky. And I was so surprised. The definition of cocky is so sure of one's abilities that it annoys other people. Oh my gosh. Right?

That's beautiful. I thought it was like you're so sure of your abilities, but you don't actually have any, you know, talent. But I was like, wait a second. So sure of one's abilities. Yes, to your point, especially when you get to like that 50 point. Yeah, I know what I can do. that it annoys other people? Yeah. My teenager would call that OPP, other people's problems. And it just completely released me from that word. So I wonder if the word need also has some degree of selfishness for other people.

We should look up that definition of what actually need means. Yeah, you know, and it reminds me. So as we were saying beforehand, I'm writing another book on this journey that women go through into menopause. and one of the things in my research that I found is a feminist philosopher who back in the 1980s started to at teenage girls and found out that it was actually in our teenage years I think it's hormonal when the hormones kick in that wasn't her stuff she was a philosopher so but when in our teenage years that is when the culture started to train us to be selfless and that you were a good girl if you were selfless. And I have a theory that when the hormones come in and the culture giving us that

message of it's now you're a good girl if you're selfless. If you put everybody's needs ahead of you, then you're worth something. And I think when we go into menopause, as those hormones go away, all of a sudden we're like, hey, no more of that bullshit. I don't want to be selfless. And so we have this like awakening. And it's in that moment that we're actually don't know what to do because we're like, hey, I don't, I don't want to please you. But pleasing you also gave me joy. So now where am I going to get joy from? It's a very weird transition into the second act, as you put it. So audacity seems like a really important trait. How do you, how do you not to pull, not to sound too trendy with your title, but how do you, we, cultivate audacity because I think every woman going into their post-metapausal years

should be, yeah, now's my time to be cocky and audacious. And how the hell do I learn how to do that? Well, that is exactly why I wrote the book, because I'm tired of people telling us, like, just go for it, swing for the fences. And we're all like, how? How do I do that? So the point, the first moment is I was not born audacious. And I don't think many people are born audacious. right but the audacity by definition is the willingness to take bold risks so if we're not born with it we need to grow it that's the title cultivating audacity and it starts with those micro moments as you were just talking about all of a sudden you get to this moment and you're like I don't want to please people so you start with the word no right no but without everything that comes after it like

no I can't because I have this other thing that I have no no just no do you want to help out with it no so that's like the little micro moment I wish everybody could see you face. That was really good. But I mean, it is, right? For me, the school calls, hey, do you want to help with the yearbook? No. You know, like, it just, it's just not offering any more explanation. But to actually cultivate audacity, look, there's three things comprise having an audacious identity, all right? The first one is your mindset. Everybody loves talking about mindset. At heart, audacity is really about optimism, right? It's this belief that, you know, that things are going to work out. They may not work out the way you want them to, but they will

work out and you'll be able to survive the outcome. And the example I always give being a sports person is you're playing in a basketball game, you're down by 12 at the half, why even bother coming out and playing the second half? Right. Because you think, well, maybe if we get our offense together and this and that, we might be able to win this game. But even if we don't, I'm not going to die. So it's just that mindset of optimism, I'm going to be able to figure it out. I'm going to be able to do it. But you can sit on your mother's couch all day being optimistic and nothing's going to happen, right? So combining that with audacious behavior, which starts with the no and moves into doing the unexpected.

Just do something. I tell people at the beginning, like when we're just talking about audacity early in the book, I tell them, just do something different today than you would normally do. Oh, give an example. Whatever it is. You know, if you play tennis, go swing a golf club. You know, just do something different today. Unexpected.

When you marry those two things together, the consistent optimism and the consistent action, that's when you go from what is Mindy doing to, that's Mindy. She swings for the fences because it becomes your identity that you're not this predictable person who's going to follow the masses all the time. And so I think that's your best starting point for cultivating audacity. is thinking about what would I typically do here? How can I do that differently? Or what can I do that's different from that?

And getting comfortable with different. Okay. And so with different, this is something I've been learning a lot in my own life lately, is that when you go to break a lifelong habit, like saying no, instead of saying yes to everybody, you're saying no. And instead of doubting yourself, what I hear you're saying is actually you're betting on yourself,

instead of the same routine you had forever, you now break another routine. From a neuroscience lens, that is like you don't have the neuronal pathways in your brain to be able to quite like fit into that new groove. So it does take the consistency and then those neurons start to form. But in that initial no, hey, I'm betting on myself, hey, I'm doing something different. That actually can feel horrible to some people. It can be anxiety producing.

Is there a trick when you're first taking on this audacious lens when everything in your body is like, no, no, no, no, what are you doing? Are there tools that we can use in that moment? I think a lot of that is like your inner critic, right, talking to you and saying this feels terrible. You're being selfish. You're not good at this. You're not ready for this. This is not nice to use your phrase also, which is a big one we get put on us. And so for me, the trick is separating that voice from myself.

So, for example, I started late having children, so I still have a 12-year-old daughter. Oh, God bless you. I know, right? Keeps people from guessing my age, 57. But when I picked my daughter up from school one day, I said, hey, you know, how was school? And she goes, well, I'm stupid. can't do math and oh by the way I'm fat oh god whoa right like a middle school age girl I was like you know that's a lot to unpack so of course we talked about it and I said you know the typical like

would you say that to somebody else would you say that to me and she's like no of course not and I said so if that's not something you typically say then it's really not Lena my daughter's name it's not Lena saying it to you because that's not the way you speak so let's just pick a different name for that voice, some name of fictional character that you don't know, just to separate that idea. And so she picked the name Jerry. And I said, what would you say to Jerry if he came up to you and say, you're not smart? You can't do math. And oh, by the way, you're fat. And she goes, she thought about it for a while. And she goes, I'd say, like, shut up, Jerry. And so I said, okay. You know, so it's starting to see that voice outside. So still, when I hear her at the kitchen

counter doing her homework and she's like, oh, I can't do this. We don't even say shut up in my house, but I will yell down. Shut up, Jerry. Just to like break her out of the moment. So I think separating that voice from ourselves is a really important first part of it is saying like, wait, who's telling me that this is selfish and, you know, it feels horrible because it's different, but there's, you know, fear is an invitation to grow. So if I'm feeling afraid of it, it's about shifting that mind to like, okay, they said it was going to feel terrible. So I guess I'm on track because it feels terrible.

Right. Yeah. I've had a lot of, a lot of very close friends that are also, you know, professionals in the, in the mental health space say to me that guilt is, when you feel guilt, that actually it's you knowing that you're breaking a pattern of people pleasing and that actually you are putting yourself first you are deciding what you want is just unfamiliar because you've people pleased your whole life I love that yeah and it's like we're midway through the day and I've learned something I love that so just knowing like when that guilt that has been helpful for me because I'm I am a classic codependent

human that wants to make everybody happy around me. But when my hormones changed and my neurochemical system changed as I went into menopause, I could no longer do that. And like you and I talked about, like stuff came out of my mouth, like no, or my behaviors changed. And that became very startling for a lot of people around me. The deeper I get into menopause, the less I can go back to my people pleasing ways. And so I love this idea of labeling and names. And so I love this idea of labeling and the voice in your head that is not there to serve you. That was beautiful. I also love the idea, like I said, of these feelings that we've attached to being negative, actually our indications we're heading on the right path. Do you have any tricks? What do we do when you start

to step into your innate, audacious, you know, behaviors? I'm going to call them innate because I think they were there when we were born. And everybody around you looks at you and is like, what happened to you? What's going on? Why are you acting this way? Do we have a strategy for the people around us or do we just let them be? A strategy to answer that question for me or how to interact with them? Yeah, how to interact with them.

If somebody, if you have a relationship, you know, I'll use my children as examples. My daughter is 25 and my son is 22. And, you know, they would call and I would. pick up the phone and immediately, you know, whatever they needed, I would do for them. And now I'm like, oh, yeah, I'll call them back at the end of the day. If something's wrong, they'll, you know, like there's just a little bit more of a pause. Like, hey, I just want to take care of what I'm doing right now. I'll get back to them. And now, luckily, they've been fine with that. But there is a shift as you go into these 50s, 60s post-menopausal time where all of a sudden you're just, you just won't do it

for everybody else and everybody else can have problems. They do. I mean, I've seen it happen. Yeah, so there's two things. One, I think you have to figure out, is this somebody whose opinion you care about? Laura Gassner-Odding wrote a book called Limitless, and I loved one phrase she had in there that said, don't give a vote to anyone who shouldn't have a voice. So the first thing is, like, if it's your children, obviously you want to work with them and help them understand your reality of the way that you're changing and you're expressing yourself. But you can cut out a big chunk of people if you are thinking, I actually, I don't care what they think there.

So that's the first thing. And then for me, in terms of strategy, especially living audaciously, I have groups of people that I call my front row. And I invite certain people, and I literally use the words, hey, will you be my front row to be supportive when I'm trying to do something different. And here's who's not in your front row most of the time. It's not your mom and is not your best friend because they want you to be safe. And I think that's what you're talking about when people kind of push back sometimes is like they felt safe with the way that you were, right? Always jumping and doing things for you. And your mom and everybody

just wants you to be safe and their own perceptions of what risks might be out there are kind of clouding. So your front row is like carefully curated people who are doing big things on their own, usually. It doesn't have to be in your field at all. But who will check in, hold you accountable, give you different ideas, tell you the truth. There's something about asking somebody, will you be in my front row? Hey, I want to write a book. Will you be in my front row? That gives them significance in your life.

Because now you have given them a role. in your life where they feel like, okay, I am officially a tagged supporter of this person. And here's how I can best do that. Of course, it doesn't work in a vacuum. You need to also be in the front row for other people as well. But I think that's one way to start looking at the people who are uncomfortable with your, you know, evolution. Yeah. Okay.

So how do you cultivate a front row? I love this. Because where my brain is going is like, I think we always talk about the last period and a year from the last period. Now you're in menopause and like end of conversation. And what I want to do is, okay, that's not the end of the, that's the beginning of the conversation. And the beginning of the conversation involves like your time now. You're not people pleasing. And now I'm going to add this front row idea. So, you know, what would, what does it look like to cultivate a really hearty front row. Like give me an example of what your front row looks like. Like what are the qualities

of those people and how did you handpick them? And I have different front rows for different aspects of my life. I should say that. So I have a fitness front row. And if I don't show up to class, these people are calling me and checking and saying, where are you? Why are you not doing? And I always joke with my friends. I'm like, I need new friends because, you know, I don't want to work out that hard that particular day or whatever. But these are people who are working out for their health. Not all of them are postmonopausal, actually. Some of them are like I have three friends. And a couple of them are Olympians, which is why I always say I need new friends, because they're still training so incredibly hard. I was going to say that's a hell of a front row for fitness. Yeah. Yeah. Two of them are. But like, what do I need to do after menopause?

I need to lift weights. And who better to lift weights with than people that are like crazy fitness people who, you know, one of them's postmenopausal trying to gain muscle as well and the other one is on her way, you know. So like that's that front row and that because that's what I needed from them, somebody who's really interested in the health part of their fitness and who wants to do the same things, gain muscle, etc. Then there's your front row like when I got divorced. I had a front row of people that I went to for that. And they weren't necessarily divorced. They were just people who I thought could be really empathetic who knew. me and knew like the shame that I felt, the disappointment I felt like, why couldn't I save this

marriage? And it helped me release myself from the shame of other people who shouldn't have a vote, right, and how I felt. So I picked those people because they were empathetic. And honestly, the people in my front row loved my ex-husband too. And that was really important to me. And like my college roommate said to me, I love Matt too. And I said, I know. So do I. But we can't make the marriage work. So I didn't cultivate a front row or curate a front row people who were going to be, yeah, he was terrible at all. I didn't want to hear that. I wanted to hear how we can move through it. Professional front row, people are doing their own big things, want to create their own path there. So I'm looking, when I'm building a front row, I'm looking at what are the things

that are important to this person? What is their tolerance necessarily for change and risk? And how can I help them? Because it doesn't just work that way. So, you know, as I was writing my book, another friend was starting a speaking career. It's about like kind of moving forward together. And it doesn't do you any good if it's all one-sided. If it's all about you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, then eventually it's not going to work. Because the significance for each other is what builds a great front row.

Do you have people that cross into multiple places, multiple front rows? Yeah. like you can be in my fitness front row and in my career front row. Yeah, like my friend Holly is the perfect example. She's a three-time Olympian, right? So she's in my fitness front row. She is a broadcast partner of mine as well. So we had our professional front row there.

She was very helpful when I got divorced. And then when I started writing the book, I was talking to her and I said, you know, I can't get any time alone to write this book. Like I got people all over me all the time. And she said, hey, we have this back apartment. why don't you just come and for a couple of days and hide out and write there. And it's honestly, I didn't even tell my ex-husband this. It's right down the street where she lives. I went down there for two and a half days because I thought, why fly somewhere? I went down there for two and a half

days and was in her back apartment and she would bring food to me. So nobody saw me. Nobody knew where I was. My family just knew I was away and writing. And I got a great head start on the book. Yeah. Amazing. But you make a formal ask. to them. It's a formal ask. And I use those words, too. By the way, I use the words, you know, will you be in my front row? And when I'm delivering a keynote, I, you know, share this concept with people. And I had somebody come up to me after a keynote last year. It was an educational conference. And the woman to me, hey, I've been a teacher for 28 years. I really want to be an assistant principal, found the keynote very helpful. And I said, so I'm just trying to figure out

how to do that. And then she happened to mention our conversation, principal was there in the audience. And I said, wait, your principal was here. Yeah. Did he hear my keynote? Yes. And I was like, okay, so let's start there. Go ask him if he'll be in your front row. And she said, okay, well, I had to chase her three times, chase her down three times during this conference and said, hey, I'm leaving soon. I need you to do that before I go. And I said, and give me your phone. So I stood there. I took a picture of her from far away. He didn't know I was taking the picture as she was asking. And I said, I wanted you to see like the moment that you had the courage. I wanted to see yourself actually asking. And I said, how to go? And she said, I asked him, will you be in my front row? I want to work

to be an assistant principal. And he said, I've been waiting for you to ask. Oh my God. I'm going to cry. I was so like proud mom giving a birth again. Six weeks later, she sent me a text. Hey, I start July 1st as an assistant principal. Wow. I love that story. What's better than that? Me too. And if we tie that into where you started this, I bet it's now going to be easier for her to ask some of, you know, to have somebody who intimidated her perhaps in her front row the second time because now she's broken a pattern and has done that. So she probably has, it's going to be easier and easier to keep asking people to be in her front row. Right. And when you had talked about like how uncomfortable it is and it feels horrible, well, I told you I had to chase her down three

times during the conference because it felt horrible and very uncomfortable to her. But I just needed her to like she was she came up to me and talked about it, which, you know, takes some guts anyway at that point, a stranger that you don't know. So I was like, okay, you came to me. And so like, let's just go a little bit further. And then it was, you know, like a dam breaking. Wow. What is it about rejection that we fear so deeply? I love rejection. Can you believe that? Because. I have had so much in my life and I used to have the thinnest skin. We fear rejection because we think it has some kind of value, it places some kind of value or lack of worth on us, right? We're not

enough. And it could be a relationship rejection certainly, but for me, like in television, it's an incredibly heavy, rejection heavy business. And so it was like, well, if they're rejecting me, I must not be good, which means maybe I shouldn't be trying this. Maybe it's not cut out for me. And so what I had to do to desensitize myself to that rejection, because I was never going to make it on air if that was the case, is I sought it out actively. And it was a crazy fun experiment. And people are like, what do you mean, fun with rejection? But there was a certain executive producer at a network who I knew was a bully. I had heard about it and this and that. So I went to him to try to get an interview to get on air. And he was, of course, a bully. And

dismissive and this and that. And I was like, fine, that's exactly what I expected. But what I decided to do was keep asking him every time I saw him to get him to reject me again and again and again until it didn't hurt. Bizar. Bizarre idea. But every time I'd be at a press conference and I'd see him, I'd go, hey, hey, how are you? Amory Anderson, we met before. Is today the day you're going to hire me? And he was like, what? What? No. And everything, but then three months later, I'd see him. Hi, Amory Anderson, it's today of the day? Nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, nope, because I just thought he can't fire me, right? Like, he didn't hire me. And I just literally was like, I have to get over this blow of rejection happening. And a year and a half later, he hired me. He came up to me

and said, hey, today's the day, you know, I'm going to hire you. And I worked for him. And he was a bully and dismissive and everything that I knew, but I already had that in my head. And then when he tried to hire me a second time, I said, no, thank you. Because I was like, I got what I needed out of it, which was desensitive. And then I'm not going to work with somebody who's a bully. So we're all good. That is brilliant. You know, I did that with fear for a long time.

I really hated change. I didn't like new things. And I finally decided, oh, I'm going to make friends with fear. And I'm just going to meet it head on. And anything that makes me scared, I'm going to double down and do it until fear really started to not become something that owned me. And it was all around change. And then all of a sudden I realized like, oh, wait, like me and fear are friends. Yeah. And then like right now, I mean, full transparency, I'm, me and grief are learning to become friends.

I've just had, I lost a really good friend about six months ago. I, my home was in the Palisades fire. And I'm just learning how to grieve. And I've never, ever, ever had a relationship with grief. before. And so it's a really interesting, I like the way you say that, where it's like you're meeting head on as opposed to trying to run from it. Because when you run from it, it's almost like it gets more, it gets bigger and scarier. And we don't think of emotions like that or something like rejection. Who would think to become friends with rejection? That was brilliant. Yeah, to have fun with rejection. First of all, my condolences both for your loss of your friend and your home. Those are incredibly tough. And yeah, what are you going to do? You have to swim in the grief, right? Here's what I feel. Here's

where I feel it in my body. You know, for fear, that's what I always say is make friends with fear because that's where the growth is. I mean, that's why it's so painful to be afraid is because it's an unknown. Yeah. Right? You're afraid of something that hasn't even happened yet. It just might happen. Yeah. So if you keep doing it over and over and over, it's no longer unknown. Now it's known. Yeah. And also, it's never as quite as big as you think it is. Like it's this projected outcome. Like, you know, my first time on television, I was like sobbing outside the stadium, you know, because it wasn't a small, I was supposed to be a little small regional network, but instead I got put on ESPN2 my first time. And that was in 70 million homes. And I was just falling apart. Wow. But, you know, yeah, it was horrible. And I really didn't want to go. And I was like, I'm going to throw up on live television.

I know this is going to happen. And I was like, okay, what am I afraid of? I am afraid of being bad on television. I am afraid of being exposed, judged, embarrassed. You know, but clock was ticking. I had to get on air. And afterwards, I was bad and I was judged and I was exposed and I was embarrassed. And I survived.

Right? And I survived. and I could congratulate myself for taking the action and surviving the outcome. And then I got up, you know, the next week to do it again. And the only thing it was better about the second time was that it wasn't the first time. It was still just awful and felt bad and everything else. But the more I did it, the easier it got. And I improved along the way.

You know, so it's like I made the fear lose its power over me by continuing to put myself in that situation. Yeah. And I just want to point out, says the woman with three Emmys over her shoulder. Because if you're not watching this on YouTube, she literally has three Emmys lined up over her shoulders. So whatever you did in that moment must have worked out okay long term. Yeah, exactly. I mean, who knows? But like when we talk about the very beginning, the motivation for doing odd out, I didn't have Emmys in my head. I didn't have anything like that in my head. it was about like, I'm not going to let this fear or this rejection or this bully control me.

Yeah. And that's why I'm doing the thing. Yeah, so beautiful. Talk about the to-do list. You have thoughts on organizing your to-do list so that it works for you, not for everybody around you. Can you, I think it's a really interesting one because I'm of the classic, like, let me do everything for everybody else and then I'll do it for myself afterwards. Right? And that's- We need to talk, Mindy. Yeah, exactly. It's shifting. No, it's totally shifting for me now, but it used to be, I shifted it as I changed my routine of my day and I got up the first two hours every morning is for me. It was so it had to be a logistical change. But how do we even know? I mean, I think sometimes we get caught like just innately doing everything for everybody else. And then the half of the day is gone and we're like, shoot, I didn't do what I wanted to do. Right. And so I call it the urgency.

fallacy is what you're referring to, right? Because somehow along the way we got sold this idea that if something's urgent, it must be important. And you have to do it right now. So things that are urgent is maybe like answering a text, replying to an email, signing the permission slip, making dinner, putting in a report, whatever it is. And then the things that are important that move us closer to our values, visions, who we want to be, whatever our goals are, we have a tendency see to say, okay, when I get rid of the things that are urgent, when I take that stuff off my list, check it off, check it off, check it off, then I will do what's important. But the trick is, urgent never ends. It never ends. It is constantly. So becoming aware of what's urgent and what's

important. And here's an easy way to figure out what's urgent. Urgent things usually are a response to a request from someone else. They have sent you something or you have a report that you need to get to somebody or something like that. Things that are important often don't have any kind of a deadline. They do have consequences if you don't, you know, don't get to them. So separating those things out. And then I want to ask you, like, most things that are urgent can wait 15 minutes. Right. Yeah. So when I went to write a book, right? I'm a keynote speaker, a full-time broadcaster, a mom, and I decided to write a book in what, my spare time? Like, that didn't exist. And so I did what you did. You're crazy. Yeah. I was, I decided I was going to get up at 4.30 every morning and write for an hour before things went. And that lasted like a week because it was horrible. I mean, I was exhausted by the end of the day. I'm not terribly creative as a writer at 430 in the morning. You know, so I just, I was like, this isn't working, but I still need to write for an hour every day. How am I going to do that? So for me, because I was in the thick of it with the kids still being young, it was.

four 15 minute blocks throughout the day that were scheduled. That text can wait 15 minutes. That email can wait 15 minutes. And you guys don't need to be fed right now. That can also wait 15 minutes. And I wrote this book, I swear to you, in like either on planes or in 15 minute increments locked in my bathroom on the floor. Oh my gosh. Where else does a parent get away from the kids' demands? And I had people knock on the door and be like, mom, I'm hungry. And I'd be like, yeah, same. I'll be out in 15 minutes. So it's about creating that space. You know, some people, it's 3.20 minute blocks.

I had a client that I was helping who did it in two half hour blocks, like a half hour in the morning. And then he and his wife worked out getting their toddlers into the bath together. And then she would take care of the bathing for half an hour while he took care of his, he was studying for real estate license. And then by the time they got out of the bath, he was back with them for book and bed. And it's about like creating the non-stop. unnegotiable space and recognizing that just because something is urgent to somebody else,

doesn't mean it takes precedent over what's important to you. And then start noticing how long could that urgent thing wait? And is there enough space for you to carve out 15, 20 minutes, a half an hour to create a path to what you want to do? Is there a point at which there's too many people trying to communicate with you? I've had this thought recently that I need to offload all the people I'm communicating with and make a real clear decision that I'm going to keep an inner circle and maybe there's a bigger circle beyond that. Would that fall into the to-do list too? Like maybe some people just need to

fall off your communication list. Yeah, I totally agree. I call it Wheating Your Garden. If they're like nice people and maybe you enjoy their company a bit, but I can't be. like there's very few friends of mine who when they text me, I will text right back. But if they text me, hey, I need you, I'll call them. You know, so it's like those people know. But the other people that are just, I don't know, casual acquaintances, friends and stuff, yeah, I don't give them the same attention that I do to that close inner circle, my family, or myself, which is something that we talked about that can be hard for people. Sometimes I, you know, when I go to bed at night, I go to bed really early. And so I will say to my kids as I'm leaving, that concludes my

parenting for today. I enjoyed it. And I'll be upstairs. You know, and they always laugh. And so, you know, so does I be like, you know, give me a grade on the way up? And they'll be like, B plus, because you didn't let me have dessert. And I'm like, I can live with that. And, you know, but it's a joke. But it's like, I cut off the time that I'm available. This sounds terrible. to my own children at night where I'm like, now I need to go to bed. And so that concludes my parenting. I hope you enjoyed it. It's the best I could be today. Oh my God. So good. I actually feel like I want to do that. I mean, my kids are grown now, but I want to like do that with like work or even like conversations. Like, and now office hours are done. And I'm moving. I think that's,

that's just brilliant. Isn't that the way it used to be years ago? Right. Right. Our fathers came home from work and had dinner and whatever else. And now it's like we got our phones and people can text us at any time and demand email. And so it's about like shutting down. And for me, like when we talk about what you need, I could easily like never shut down. I could just keep going, keep going, keep going, keep going. Me too. It's so unhealthy.

So I have to make time really specific. I am not going to be available to anyone during this period of time. Yeah, amazing. I like how you when you're like, Ed, I hope it, I hope you enjoyed it. I hope you enjoyed it. Yeah. Give me a grade. You know, and if it's been kind of a rough day, I'll say, I'm not sure it was my best work, but that's what I had today. Yeah, that's so good. I'm going to start saying that. Talk a little bit. Talk about how confidence and audacity isn't just a mental skill or a mental benefit, but there's a physiological one as well. Can you talk a a little bit about like stress and burnout when we're just giving go, go, go. And when we're not operating from this self-reference, confident, audacious place that we're actually draining our vital forces. That's the way I read that. For sure. Well, first of all, there's a difference

between confidence on audacity, right? Confidence is a belief in oneself. And audacity is the believing and taking action. So it's like the next step. For me, audacity is the next step. For me, audacity is the next step, which requires confidence and moving forward. And then it's about like, what's draining you? Everything drains our limited capacity for the day all the time. So if it's some people complaining that's draining you, you know, you've got to cut that off. If there is unhealthy habits that you have, you got to look at that. I just got one of those little sensors for the back of my trisette. I just got that today. Because I was like, yeah, I want to see like how different foods affect me.

Right. You know, it costs money to buy that, you know, thing. It's not terribly expensive by any means. But I was like, I'm making a little investment into my health, not that anything's wrong, but then I'm curious. Like, it's about replenishing my own resources at that point. And I think in terms of physiological and psychological, you know, and psychological, it is about, like, there is a limit to how much you can do, how much.

you can handle. And if you don't protect that, you're not going to be good for anybody, including yourself. So it's kind of paying attention to those signs in your body of how are you feeling? How are you sleeping? Do you feel clearheaded or refreshed? If not, how can you get there? Yep. It's, I'm a big believer in all of that being obviously tightly connected. I recently had a realization that when I feel anxiety in my body, it's because I'm, I'm actually moving away from what I want to be doing. What like I'm not speaking up for myself. I'm trying to adapt to other people.

And then I can feel that anxiety hit my body. And I'm like, oh, there it is. Yeah, that's right. Okay, Mindy, what do you want? What do you want? And then I think about what I want. What do you want to do right now? Okay, yeah.

And then the anxiety goes away. It's like I get. That's so cool. Yeah. It's like my body becomes like a barometer for I got off course. And I really, it's been really helpful to have that kind of signal. I, I had something quite similar where I was like feeling bad, like tight in my chest. And I was like, okay.

And years ago, I wouldn't have done anything to it. But I was like, what, what is that feeling about? Like there's something, I don't even know what it is that's making me feel bad, this and that. And then I was like, oh, that's right. It was, I think it was like a cost estimate of something that was way over what I thought it was going to be. And I was like, okay. So now we know.

I think for a lot of times I didn't want to pay attention to what the feeling was. It was like, oh, I just kind of push through it. Maybe I'll eat it away. Maybe I'll do whatever. Right. And now it's like I, like we've talked about it. I dive into it where I'm like, ooh, that that pit in my stomach is not feeling great. What is that about? Yeah. I don't really want to do this or this person is mad at me and I wish they weren't or what I just identifying it is what releases it. Right? Yes. Yeah. It's pretty. It's pretty. Once you create a pattern with asking your fear, your anxiety, all of that, what it wants, it is really interesting how it will quickly tell you. It's pretty spectacular. And it's the same for

your inner critic as I was talking about before. Once you separate it from yourself and give it a name and then have some kind of phrase to it, I mean, for me, what I say is that's not very helpful right now. When my inner critic or doubt comes up, I'm like, that's just not helpful right now. I have other friends. that have mantras, you know, I have one who's a keynote speaker but deals with speaking anxiety. And she has, like, she looks at the wall where the back wall and the ceiling meets, and she'll repeat to herself where the wall and the ceiling meets a wonderful feeling or something like that, just to take her out of the moment. Yeah, beautiful. Yeah. Is there a difference between being bold and being audacious?

I feel like audacious is a bigger swing. But I think, I think they're very careful. carefully done. I mean, bold is something unusual. And then there's a certain risk to audacity in terms of not knowing what the outcome would be. It's interesting, Mindy, I had to change the subtitle for my book. Currently, it's dismantled doubt and let yourself win. It was dismantled, dismantled doubt and take bold risks. People, when we tested the title, freaked out at the word risk. Freaked out. They were like, I don't want to, I don't want to take any risks. No, I don't want to, I, you know, risks sound, sound bad to me. And so it was like, I literally had to say to myself, okay, for them to understand what I wanted, I needed to change this title to say, like,

instead of like take bold risks, get out of your own way, really, let yourself win. Yeah. By, you know, taking some chances by being bold. It was really interesting, the reaction to the word risk. Yeah, isn't that funny? Even a negative word. we're like, no, no, don't give that to me. You know, my feeling is audacity and being audacious is doing something that is unusual for yourself. So you're stepping up for yourself with certainty knowing that you are going to get the outcome.

There's almost a level of cockiness that comes with audacity. To me, bold is like just a statement you make, but it doesn't necessarily. attached to your self-worth. Audacious to me is like I'm going to step up and do something big knowing this is the right thing for me. That's how I would look. That's just my own feeling. I don't know if you know though with something that's audacious if it's the right thing for you. So I'll, I would tweak that for myself and saying knowing that I'll get some information and data from it. So when I fail, I don't even use the word failure anymore, but you know, by other people's terms, when I fail, for me, that's all data. Like, if you don't do the thing, you have no

information. People think that, like, staying the same is safe, but it's not. It's the only thing it's staying the same safe, staying the same is, is ensuring that no growth is possible. So for me, audacity isn't knowing that it's going to work out by any means. It's about knowing that you're going to get some information out of this action, whether it's positive or negative, so you can keep moving on a path. I love that because I love that because if you're not worried about failing, if all you're doing is data collecting, then you go and do something big and bold and audacious and you get feedback and then you decide your next move. It sounds like it can be that simple. Yes, it is. It is that simple. And it's really freeing. Yeah. It ties into everything we talked about,

like with rejection as well, like, okay, I went for that job. I didn't get that job. I always ask, like, could you give me any feedback on, you know, is there something I should have done differently or better, a skill I needed to acquire and all that? Because now you've got some information, even if you apply for a job and don't get it, apply again later, don't get it, and apply a third time, you know, when you have more information, you have been adding skills and more data to your bank of knowledge. That's amazing. Let's finish up on this. What can people expect from your book? And I didn't, you know, why did you write the book? Because I can tell you as an author, decision to write a book for me is usually because something's not being said. That needs to be said. And I'm just curious. Your process. And then invite us into people who are interested in diving into the pages and what they can find there. Thank you. Well, I think the reason I wrote it is because,

Because there's, you know, sometimes I'd have people say to me, like, you're lucky. You're lucky that you did this. And I'm like, am I? I don't think that's interesting. I don't think that's what it is. And so I wanted to share with people because I really have been living my life this way, audaciously. And it comes out of a situation when I was like 23 years old when a colleague of mine, an older person who I had interned for was 37 and collapsed and died suddenly. work right on ESPN Sports Center Newsroom floor. And I had performed CPR in him and it was unsuccessful and he passed. And I remember being right there beside his body as they were trying to reach his wife

who had just gotten married. He had just landed his dream job. He hadn't even been on air yet at ESPN. It was super fit. And I remember thinking like, wait a second. If you can be newly married and super fit land your dream job and have it yanked away in a second, I'm not going to wait for anything ever again. And we always kind of hear that, like, don't wait, but there's something about having it right in front of you as a 23-year-old, that I was like, forget it. And so I started asking for things that I never would have asked for before.

Hey, can I do the Olympics? Can I move to Los Angeles to be LA Bureau producer? Can I do this? Can I do that? Sometimes the answers were yes. Sometimes the answers were no. But I lived audaciously. And so the reason I wrote, is because at 50 something, I decided to write a book. At 37 is when I decided to go full time on air.

Like, I didn't do anything early. And I realized that some of my friends and colleagues that I was having conversations with were like, oh, man, I missed that opportunity. And I'm thinking, I don't think you did. No. I think it may be right there. So I wanted people to understand the opportunity can still be right there. And you're just reading into it in a different way. What people can explain. from the book is this. There's one of four things through my studying that is always in the way between you and the thing you want to do. And it's either fear, time, money, your inner critic, or a combination of those four. So the first thing in the book we talk about is like, what do you want to do? What if you don't know what you want to do? That's where the filter comes in that I

talked about earlier in figuring out what it is that really excites you and that you're good at, Right? Because I loved a garden, but nobody's hiring me to garden. I kill everything. Everything. So, like, it has to be the combination. Then we go through the barriers. Some may resonate more strongly with you, but each one is asking questions and giving examples about the way that these barriers can impact us. And then at the end, there's a reevaluation loop because you're not done. Audacity's never done. You know, you know this, Mindy from, like, writing another book now and creating and the way your life has evolved that we've talked about. It doesn't. end. And so constantly re-evaluating, okay, here's my, you know, health and wellness. Here's what's my score is. It's actual score thing. What was interesting to me is when I wrote the assessment, I then took it after I wrote it. I took my own assessment. Oh, that's amazing. The professional career, going well. Yeah. Health and wellness, I'm doing okay. Relationships, wah, won, won, won, like I wasn't connecting with my friends. Obviously, you know, no partner at that point. And I was thinking, okay, what do I need to do to make that more satisfying for me?

Wow. And that's why the reevaluation loop you would want to do again several times because maybe then you have a great relationship and your career is great, but you're not taking care of your health or your wellness. So it is a process throughout the book where you can kind of pick and choose where you are. Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. Well, you know, as a fellow author, it is no small task to write a book. In 15-minute increments is even more impressive. So thank you for. Or on planes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So good. So good. But thank you, Anne-Marie. This is just awesome. I love what you're up to.

I love the way your mind thinks. I love what you're bringing forward. And I think through the menopause lens, I just, this is just a perfect book and a perfect conversation for women to really learn how to live life on their terms because so many of us have been doing it on everybody. else's terms. So how can people... That's one of the reasons I made the first chapter free. The first chapter free is on my website at amory-anderson.com because I thought, I don't want you to have to make an investment when you're unsure. Read that first chapter. And then, you know, if it resonates with you, go by the book. Chances are it's going to resonate with you because it's about like, wait a minute, you can do it. Now is exactly the right time. But for anybody that's curious about it,

but not sure, you can get the first chapter free on amoryanderson.com. Perfect. And otherwise, anywhere books are sold, that they can get them. Yeah. Yeah, amazing. Well, thank you so much. Appreciate you. And I just, I love this conversation.

I'm excited for people to hopefully step out of their comfort and become more audacious. So thank you. Thank you. It was great talking with you. Yeah, thanks. Thank you so much for joining me in today's episode. I love bringing thoughtful discussions about all things health to you. If you enjoyed it, we'd love to know about it.

So please leave us a review, share it with your friends, and let me know what your biggest takeaway is.