Live Like a Girl with Dr. Mindy Pelz - Embracing the Mystical Journey of Menopause with Rebecca Campbell

Episode Date: February 24, 2025

Rebecca Campbell, a prolific writer, mystic, artist, and author dives into the often-overlooked spiritual and emotional transitions that accompany the shift from reproductive to post-reproductive years. This episode explores the discomfort of shedding old identities, creating space for new versions of ourselves, and finding the language to express these shifts to others. Dr. Mindy shares her own experiences of no longer feeling the need to please everyone, uncovering an inner voice longing to be heard. To view full show notes, more information on our guests, resources mentioned in the episode, discount codes, transcripts, and more, visit https://drmindypelz.com/ep276 Rebecca Campbell is an international bestselling author, mystic, visionary and mum. Her creations are dedicated to weaving the sacred back into everyday life. She had her first awakening experience as a teenager and has had several initiatory awakening experiences since. A prolific creative, her books, oracles and creations inspire people to live a soul-led life. Her new book Your Soul Had A Dream Your Life Is It shows you how you can embrace life's changes and challenging times as initiations to transform! Check out our fasting membership at resetacademy.drmindypelz.com. Please note our medical disclaimer.

On this episode of The Resetter podcast, I bring you Rebecca Campbell. Now, Rebecca is a prolific writer. She also does Oracle cards. She has been in the spiritual community for years as a channel, an artist, a poet, and a mystic. And it was really her new book that drove me to bring her to you all. And the book is called Your Soul Had a Dream. your life is it. And when I was gifted this book a few months ago, I picked it up out of curiosity.

And what I found in here is what I would call a mystical guide to the menopausal journey. Now, I don't think Rebecca would call it that. I think she wrote it from her own experience of her own life journey as a woman. But when you dive into these pages, you start to see so much wisdom. around moments of transition. And so I wanted to bring her to you to talk about this mystical experience of moving from your reproductive years to your post-reproductive years. And I feel like in this day and age right now, we have this beautiful conversation emerging

about women's experiences going through menopause. And we are looking at it from such a physiological lens. But what we haven't really given language to is the mystical journey of going from, again, your reproductive time to your post-reproductive time. So I believe that Rebecca is the person to really give us language so that we can all talk about what we're feeling as we move into what Jane Fonda would call our third act of our life and the back half of our life. So in this conversation, you're going to hear us talk about the, what do you do when old versions of you are falling away?

How do you handle the discomfort of these old versions of you? And how do you make room and create safety for a new version of you to emerge? You're also going to hear us talk about how do you express that to other people? How do you talk about that with other people? This is something I have found in my own menopausal journey as I am no long. willing to please everybody around me and I feel an inner stirring inside of me of a new version of me to have voice. I have been looking for ways to share what I'm going through with those around me that I love dearly. And so in this conversation, you're going to hear Rebecca and I talk

about this spiritual experience that we can embrace about the new versions of us that are just dying to come forward about this really interesting time in the world right now where women are finally using their voice to speak out and say what our hearts are really wanting to say. It is a beautiful conversation. It is not science driven. It is definitely more on the woo-woo lens. But I have tried to give you some neuroscience to explain the woo-woo that Rebecca is going to embrace and embark upon you in this conversation. And I think together, the two of us did the best job we could to talk about the initiation of menopause and how profound this process can be if we're willing to go into the mysteries of life. So Rebecca Campbell and her new book, Your Soulheaded

Dream, Your Life is It. And as always, I hope this touch touches you deeply and moves you in a direction that serves you well. Enjoy. Welcome to the Resetter podcast. This podcast is all about empowering you to believe in yourself again. If you have a passion for learning, if you're looking to be in control of your health and take your power back, this is the podcast for you. I want to start off by saying that, that I love to read. And books have changed my life. I'm both reading and writing books. And your book touched me in a way that a book hasn't done in a really long time. So not only am I excited to have you here, but I just want to say thank you because your words were piercing

and I can't wait to have this conversation with you. Wow. What an intro. I am very honored by that. Thank you so much. Yeah. You know, I'll tell you about books changing lives. When I was in my like 19, 20 years old, I had chronic fatigue syndrome and medical profession had pretty much given up on me and said there was nothing that we can do for you. And my mom had taken me to a holistic MD who put me on a bunch of supplements and IVs and like these things weren't popular back in the 1990s when this was going on. And my mom took me to a bookstore in LA called East West, no, called the Bodie Tree. And I was sitting at the bottom, like hanging out when my mom was shopping and literally this book jumped out at me and it was called Living in the

Light by Shakti Goan. Do you know that book? I do. Yeah. And I had never really understood at the time the power of how the mind could heal the body. And I was only 19 years old and I brought that book home. And I followed the prompts and I read the whole book. And within three weeks between that book and some diet changes, I was like back, like my energy was back. I had gone back to college. Like it really was like a transformative time. And what I learned from that is when we are looking at the healing journey, the physical healing journey, that we have to bring the mind into it. And we have to start to think about how our, our brain, our thoughts are creating our physical reality.

When I read your book, I started to really think about what my soul's expression was and what did I really think about the soul and what purpose do I have for my soul. And so what I really want to start off with in this conversation is, do we have even a definition of our soul? that we can all agree upon? No, it is one of the greatest mysteries there is. I mean, from Plato to all of the great, great, great, great, great, great mystics through the ages, scientists, theologians. It really crosses all different industries, and it is the greatest mystery there is. And so I think I've always been really into the mysteries.

But the older I get, the more I'm convinced that. the soul is not separate to nature. You know, we see the soul as like this kind of mysterious thing that's like not in our body, but actually it's when we take our first breath that I believe the soul enters and then we release that last breath, these gates of life, which I know you and I have spoken quite a bit about on Boxer, where, you know, one moment there is life, the next moment there is not. Like that mystery captivates me so much. And I really, really believe that the soul is connected to this intelligent pulse of life, that same intelligence that tells the flowers when to open and close, the seasons when to come and go, us to grow in the waters of our mother's womb,

our monthly cycle, if we have one, when we have one, and then it stops. Like, there is this great mystery that is as physical as it is ineffable. And it completely captivates me this great mystery. As it does me. And like we will go, you know, go into this that, you know, I've had a near-death experience and I feel like in that experience, I started to really understand the mysteries of life and really see that there was more than what we are seeing in our. everyday reality. And when it comes to the soul, I have asked myself multiple times throughout my life, but especially after my near death, which is, what's the soul's purpose? So do you feel like every soul comes in with a purpose? And does that purpose change throughout your lifetime? Yeah. Yes and yes.

I believe that all souls come here for a reason and some souls come here for multiple reasons. I have had regression and lifetime before lifetime experiences myself where I actually experience receiving my purpose for being here. And it's different from like this way that we use purposes in like there's this one question where there's this one answer to what my purpose is. like for you as like to be this mega, mega, mega amazing, amazing leader, author. Like it's that. Oh, once you become an author, you've done your purpose. No, no, no, no, no.

It's much more than that. But I believe that many of us have our individual purpose, as in our souls come here to grow and learn and experience things on a personal level or a personal soul level. But I do believe particularly now, I think that we come here in teams. in waves. And many of us are here as part of a collective purpose. And what I see happening over and over again for those of us who resonate with that concept. Like I know that I'm here, not just for me, I want to be part of this rebirth for, I would say, humanity, not the earth, because the earth is just as good is good enough on a road. It's us that needs the waking up.

Yeah. But I think those of us who feel that call for that greater purpose, particularly these times where there is so much happening, it can feel so overwhelming because the way that we have all been raised because of the time that we chose to come into, separation is so evident here and individualism. And so it's as if like, oh, I have this collective purpose. But it's like, no, no, no. And what, what, what, I believe I've been receiving over and over again, particularly these past like five years where things have really heated up, where it's like we all hold a thread for the healing and rebirth of humanity. Trust the one that you're holding. So it's not like this great big thing that we have to

take the responsibility on individually. It's this beautiful weaving, reweaving that is happening. It's interesting because I'm deep in research and writing my next book. And one of the questions that I've asked myself over and over again is, you know, what is the purpose of menopause? Because it seems to me that there has to be something transformative, purposeful about the fact that as humans, we live 42.5% of our life as women in our post-reproductive years. And that I don't think is by mistake. And so I've been on this quest literally for like,

you know, I'm 55 years old. So for the last decade, I've been just like, why does the reproductive system shut down? And then there's this new evolution of a woman that emerges. And I've been really looking at that lens and then coming over and looking at how as women, we are conditioned in this world.

And there's some really interesting information from a feminist philosopher who talks about how women are really taught to be selfless in this world. You know, if you want to be a good girl, you give to others. And the reason I bring it up in this context of this discussion is I feel like this,

the reality of this world constantly pulls us away from our soul's full expression. And I feel like menopause is the moment we can pull back and start to really look at ourselves. We have time, we have mental energy, physical energy, and we can really go into a new expression of ourselves. And maybe the truest expression of ourselves.

So in that context, how do you know your soul's desire? How do you know your soul is speaking to you? Like are there ways, is it a hunch in your body? Is it you light up when you do something? Like there's an energy that we're not always pulsed into that I feel like you could, you do such a great job of putting words to that if we could have some tangible context behind this is your soul screaming at you. This is your soul wanting you to fully break free.

what would that language be? I love it. So first of all, the best way to have a relationship with your soul is to spend time with it. Think of it like a new friend that you've just met. You're not going to be able to recognize their voice in a busy room at a party or whatever unless you hear it over and over again. So you start by giving yourself that time, which I think is interesting with the menopausal and peri-medical puzzle where that self-sacrificing begins.

to become harder to hold on to, right? There are many different ways our soul speaks to us. I think at first the soul is subtle. It's not like it's this big, big, loud voice, but through our body we can hear it as well. So we have senses, which are like inner senses, right? Which are the same as our other senses, like see a clairvoyance, clear audience, clear sentience.

So that's clear seeing, clear hearing, clear feeling, clear knowing. And, and, but it's all through the body that we experience it. I love that. Most people see the soul and intuition as this wishy-washy woo-woo thing. But it's not. It really is not. It is so physical. It's just sometimes subtle.

And the more we get to develop a relationship with it, the more in touch with our body's senses we become, particularly as women, it's a sensual, it's the senses, sensual nature. And so many of us have been cut off from it. But here's the thing. And I think this really happens. I think this happens in postpartum.

I think it happens in, well, with a monthly cycle. And it certainly happens in perimenopause and menopause where this sacred rage starts coming up. Yes. And I think we don't understand how sacred that is, how holy that is. This is like the mama bear, the grandmother bear coming in to say, no. this way, not that way. And so it doesn't have to be. And of course, the soul also speaks through what brings you joy, what lights you up. You know, this concept of, say, light worker, which I think

some people understand, some people aren't, but it's essentially being of service. You don't have to overthink it so much of like, how can I do things that, again, that's putting it on yourself. No, if you follow what lights you up, you will light up the world without even trying. And so, but it's that the sense, through the senses that we receive our intuition, which I call the voice of the soul. You know, what's really interesting is in studying or in researching for this book that I'm writing, I have been looking at all the different neurochemical changes that happen to women as they go through menopause. And one of them, as we know, is estrogen goes down. But what is not being expressed or talked about enough is that estrogen going down is not just, it's not just estrogen

that is being affected, she has a whole series of neurochemicals that she stimulates. So when she goes away, these other neurochemicals go away too. And one of them is oxytocin. And so estrogen amplifies oxytocin. So I ended up down a path of research that I found that women have three areas where we have the densest oxytocin receptor sites. our brain, our heart, and our bones. And I started to think, oh, that's why when we are like, I feel it in my bones. When you are in a place where you are in your truest expression, my guess is if we could take what you're saying about the soul and we could talk about this body expression that actually when you are in your soul's journey, you are actually creating a body expression. And we could talk about this body expression that actually, when you are actually creating a body expression that actually, you are actually, a neurochemical change that you can feel in your bones, and that's all done through oxytocin.

Yes. Oh, my gosh. What do you think of that? I love this. I love geeky up. Do you know what that's made me think of me think of? Yeah, please. Okay, let's riff on this. You unpack the science of this, because I think there's something in it. So, you know that it's your soul's voice. The biggest question I get asked is, how do I know if it's my head or my soul or my heart, right? Now, my number one way to know if it's your soul's voice, like when you're speaking, because I do this in my workshops. We do a thing called inquiry and you say, my soul is calling me too and you fill in the blank, right? I know it's my soul's voice when it drops deeper. The cadence goes slower.

And there's, I'm not pushing or anything. It just like is there's a resonance, right? Yes. This is the head tends to be, do, do, do, do, do. like this, you can feel it when you're saying it. It's kind of tighter and further up here, but when the soul drops in, that's how I know it. And I've seen it happen over and over again, right? Soul's not pushing. It just is, right? You can feel it in your body. You've kind of expand a little bit. You can feel truth. When you hear someone else speak from their soul or it has

that resonance, you're like, there's an openness to it. Now, I know that the throat is connected to the womb area as well. Yes. Yeah, the vocal cords and the cervix were actually the same tissue. In utero, they were the same tissue and then they separated. But if you actually take a picture, you look at those vocal cords and the cervical tissue, they're exactly histologically the same. Right.

But so what is that? Because I know that menopausal women in particular are off the charts intuitive. Yes. So I wonder what the science is there. Well, so this is a lot of what I have been really thinking through is that I really feel like menopause is a coming home back home to yourself. It is an initiation. It is a rebirth, which is why your book, to me, maybe the subtitle should have been how menopausal women can step into the fullest expression of themselves. because I read it through a menopausal lens, which is there is a old version of me that I can no longer participate in. And she wrapped herself up in all kinds of pretty bows, and she came from her head. Let's go back to your expression.

She came from her head. And from that place, she was doing all the things that she thought she should do. But when she goes into her post-reproductive years, everything sort of comes from more of a body place. And it's coming from an inner knowing that I can't operate that way anymore. There is a new way for me to unfold. But that change is really scary. And I also think your book is a lot about the art of change and like how do we actually work with our body and our brain and now our soul's expression, how do we work with the change of that? So that's kind of

where I tied. And like the vocal cords and the cervix, you know, fascinating that, you know, women who have had been raped or sexually abused lose their voice. And, and, you know, vice versa. You know, if you damage the thyroid, there's a lot of belief that the thyroid is injured and it's like you're not actually speaking your voice. So I think all of the. those are connected. But where I'd like to go with this conversation is if we have this intuition that is emerging as we go into menopause, how do you navigate when your body and your soul is screaming at you to live life differently, to show up differently? Do we have like a recipe or a formula on how we navigate that moment? Because I can tell you it's terrifying.

So I think the first thing to do is to make sure you're coming back to the body and being conscious with the body, right? So if you're feeling rage, if you're feeling grief, whatever the emotion is, find ways to express it. Now, I know you can work out. I'm not saying working out isn't good. The type of expression I'm talking about more is more feminine. So like putting on, I've got an artist that I love called Sia. I don't know if you know her. She is able to express so many multi layers of emotion.

I just put, if I'm feeling something that I'm unable to process, I'll put her music on and just for three minutes or even two songs, I'll try and move it out of my body. Because what happens if you're, if something's rising within you and it's, it's scaring you as well. You're going to push it back down. You're going to push it back down, which is obviously going to affect your health. It's going to affect your anxiety too. And so it's like, we have not been taught to be moved by the feminine soul, right? We have not been taught how to, Marian Woodman, who is, I'm sure you're aware of her work. She's passed now. She was a Jungian analyst and just epic, epic teacher.

She spoke about the marriage of the feminine soul in the body and how imperative it is, particularly for the conscious feminine. And she spoke a lot about the crowning of the elder as well. Oh, yeah. And how in our society we don't have many elders. We don't have many true elder grandmothers, which has no nothing to do with whether you've birthed children yourself. It's about, and I think this is because we have been starved of these feminine rights of passage being ceremonially or at least consciously acknowledge these initiations.

And initiation means to cross a threshold, to be not who you once were. And also, in order to cross the threshold, you have to face that I don't know who I'm becoming. I don't know who I will one day soon be. In my shamanic training, we were taught that the purpose of life, if you really, really want to live fully, consciously, is to learn to die while still fully living. Wow. And on your deathbed, whether you know it's coming or not,

to actually die young. And you die young because you've a lot. allowed yourself to die over and over and over again and be reborn over and over again. And I really believe, like having experienced so much stuff with my health as well, like chronic illness and many, many things, I really, really, really believe that us not living in congruence with the soul, us resisting what is dying within us, is us resisting nature. which is us resisting life. And so you're actually saying no to life. And yes, to death, but not rebirth, you know?

And so slowly we contract. Yeah. Yeah, you know the statistics on autoimmune conditions for women, like 80% of autoimmune challenges happen to women. And there's a lot of physiological explanations for that. But it's also an autoimmune condition as a turning on the body is attacking itself. And so I was thinking as you were talking about if it would, what I would love to see is a world where menopause is looked at like an initiation. It is looked at like not just

estrogen is going away. And progesterone, you are actually, this older version of you is going away. And that there would be some kind of ceremony that would actually allow for an initiation process to begin. But we have, we, and I've, and part of my concern right now with the menopause conversation is it's become all about estrogen and patches and creams. And I'm, I'm over here thinking, no, this is a dying and a rebirth. Yet we don't have a culture that allows us to change. We don't, we fear change. We don't, we want everybody to stay the same. I can tell you for my own like as I've changed, it's been hard on those people around me because they've been like, wait, I felt good with a certain way that you were and you're now showing up a different way.

So when we look at that initiation, is there a way that we can, you and I've talked about this, is there a way we can start to talk about it publicly with the people we love? like this old version of me is dying and this new version is coming forward. Is there a way to actually share that with those people close to you that you have found successful? Yeah, I think that then, first of all, I so love this conversation because I totally believe where we avoid change and just as we avoid talking about death, you know? Even birth, if you look at birth, it's all about like the delivery of the baby.

it's not about the transformation of the mother, you know? Yes. It's not about the fact that like women have been doing this since the first baby existed, you know? Yes. Anyway, don't get me started on that one. Oh, maybe. That's another conversation.

Or maybe get me started. But anyway, I digress. So, so, okay, the thing about change is that I think it's because we've disconnected ourselves so much from nature. Like you look at nature in the dictionary, it literally says stones, plants, animals, but not humans. Like it says that we are not nature, but we are. And we know when we look at the seasons and all indigenous traditions and even if we don't have indigenous traditions that are alive now, because they're being snubbed out, we all have them in our ancestry. We all have them. And I think that we are desperate, hungry, starving for that.

And I think it's our belief that nature is separate to us that makes it okay for us to conquer it or to see it as this like evil force, you know? Yeah. But it's actually in us recognizing that we are nature and like nature, we are ever changing. That. I think that that healing can happen. So that's like a bigger conversation. How that relates to us in our day-to-day life is that when you're in a relationship, right, and you know that you're changing or that other person is changing, it can feel like it's a personal thing versus like spring going into summer,

going into autumn, going into winter. It's just nature. It is part of our true. nature and we are no different. We are not meant to stay the same. And so I think the more open, the more we can understand, and this is why your book is going to be so, so needed, it's so needed, giving people a vernacular to be able to talk about it. And I think that this conversation is coming back to us. And so it can be a little bit more normal. So that's already happening. But I think navigating where you are in that map, so you're making the map. So you're making the

and then people saying, oh, wow, I just learnt this. So bringing people along in the journey. So I know that like people pleasing is a big, big one. And even myself, I'm an older mother. So I'm perimenopause. And so that self-sacrificing urge that I had in my 20s and my 30s, which I actually devoted to my work, doesn't exist. And so I was feeling so guilty that, oh, why are all the other younger mum

able to just like give and give and give and give. And I definitely have a lip. Is it because I work? What is it? No. And so then having that language, which I'll say talk to my husband or talk to my friends or my mom or whatever and just say,

oh, I'm finding this difficult to navigate because I know being perimenopausal, I'm actually right on track. And I'm feeling guilty. Same thing. If you are a people pleasing person who's always been, you know, I'll drop everything at the,

at the drop of a hat just to help whoever wants me to, you could bring it into the conversation of, so you're not distancing, you're not making it personal. And you're saying, my gosh, I'm really changing and there's something that I'm working on, which is not being such a people pleaser.

You don't have to say it in the moment that you let them down, but you're bringing them along the journey with you. And then, you know, not all relationships are meant to stay as they are, forever as well. And, you know, if we look at things like, if we look at ourselves as nature, right, it is like if you, if you keep going, it's like you're betraying yourself instead of that person, right? And you know the health, the health risks of doing that. But you're also,

if you are denying yourself and you're still in relationship with, with that person, maybe you're denying them of something as well because if they want that people pleasing then and you can't give it then someone else will enter their life that maybe is meant to or maybe they'll be empowered to take care of themselves and something else will come as a result so this is the web like once you connect in with the soul and the soul leads you physically in the body it's like there's this golden thread that's woven through your life. And other people are woven around you as well. And so you're saying then from that perspective, if you looked back, I like this idea of a golden thread. Like if you look back, there is an inner knowing you've had your whole life. And what I'm

interpreting from what you just said and what I've experienced in my own menopausal journey is that inner knowing starts really screaming at you once you hit those postmenopausal years. And you can no longer put everybody's needs ahead of your own. And you start to really come into this place of this is who I am. And but in that, it's like I think of it like a crystal, you know, the caterpillar coming out of chrysalis. It's painful. And if you look at the statistics, my audience has heard me say this over and over again, but they're haunting that between 45 and 55 is the most common decade for women to commit suicide. And 65 to 70 percent of divorces that happen after 50 are initiated by women. When I look at just those

two statistics, I look at the neurochemical changes that are happening and then I hear you talk about this way that the soul wants to express itself, I think really the challenge that we have is that we are not putting language to this massive initiation into the truest version of yourself. And so the more we can talk about it, the more women can experience it, and the more we can all men and women and make room for it. So talk to me, because I know many of your books have been about initiation. Are there strategies? Are there golden rules for initiation when you know you're at the beginning of an initiation

process? Oh, my gosh. Well, the first thing about initiation is that if you say yes to it, the phrase that I say, I text my friends when they're like, oh my God, I'm on the edge. I can feel this initiation happen. I can feel the fire of it. And I say, well, you're going somewhere sacred. And I think this is really important, like that analogy of like going into the crystallis as well.

Like we know that if you were to slice the crystallis open in the in between of being the caterpillar to the butterfly, It's just going to be messy gunk and organs. It is, it's not pretty. It is not pretty. Birth is not pretty. Yes. Birth is not pretty. It's beautiful though.

And yeah, and so I think the first thing is that it's not, a lot of people see transformation, you know, particularly of like, I just want to read the transformational books, awakening books. It is not a pretty, process. It is a beautiful process though. And it is the most natural thing in the world too. Yes. And so I think that the I think the most important thing is to work out what is your ground? What can you rely on? What is holding you? And I think that's why when people are faced with initiatory experiences, whether it is a right of passage like like menopause, perimenopause,

or if it's something like a heartbreak, deep grief, the end of a career, children leaving home, which often happened at the same time as the hormonal changes as well. We need to, I think so often we find spirituality. We find different communities because we're, we need something to hold us in a deeper way than before, right? So we need those deeper roots. So, yeah, the first thing I would say is what is holding you?

What can you, what can you lean back on that isn't necessarily like your existing friendship or you're existing whatever? How can you give yourself the depth? Yes. And then also what I heard in what you said is understanding when you said your friends are like, I'm at the beginning of an initiation, is understanding that the discomfort of things changing is actually the beginning of new, versions of you and life that are emerging. And I think we hold on to the discount, you know, we don't want, we don't, I can tell you for me, I, let me just say, I'm not a fan of discomfort. I don't, I don't, and so I can hear, so I can hear what you're saying and that I'm like, yeah,

and discomfort sucks. So even if my self is like, this is an initiation, I can't wait to see who I'm going to become, let me go find my tribe of people to support me in this. The discomfort is still really a difficult place to live. And in menopause, a lot of women live in that discomfort for a decade. So, you know, is there a language we can help women understand? What do you do with that discomfort? Well, I think the first thing is, is I always go looking to nature. First of all, I think this human journey is full of sweetness and ecstasy as well as grief and sorrow and agony. I wish it wasn't, but the polarity is real on this planet. And whenever we have a decision to make or an initiation to say yes to or no to,

I don't know anyone who's going to say yes right at the beginning. No one is going to do that. We're going to be in the contraction until. it becomes more painful. So I've got an example of when I knew I needed to change my careers, I knew I was being called to do this work, right? I resisted it, resisted it, resisted it. I knew from when I was a teenager. It wasn't until I was in my mid-30s that I was finally like, okay, I'm going to go for this, like fully go for it. And it was because the only thing harder than not, than answering the call for me was not answering it. Exactly. So we come up to this point where

how much, which am I going to choose? It's going to be uncomfortable no matter what. I can pretend it's not. Pretend it's not for however long. But how can I let, how can I open through this? This is why birth has been such a great teacher for me because if you think about what happens when you are giving birth is it's the contraction and the expansion, contraction and the expansion. The same thing happens when we're processing trauma as well, expansion and then we contract, but then we expand a little more contract, and then we expand a little more. Same thing happens with the awakening process. It's all coded in nature. Yes. That's so well said. And so, you know, what I hear in that from a like practical standpoint is when you're feeling that urge to step into this new version of you.

Yeah, getting into nature, getting around connection, slowing down, understanding the soul is trying to express something. These are, this is menopause. That's metapause. And yet we have a very medical approach to this transition. just like birth, just like birth. So I've been really geeking out lately on the word liminal. And I love liminal spaces.

Like I think that there's a liminal space between when you're awake and you go to sleep. There's like when you get into bed, there's sort of like you're moving from one state to the next. I think the morning is the same thing. There's a liminal space from waking up. into, from a sleep until, into where you're awake. And I've been thinking that we don't give enough conversation to the power of insight in those liminal spaces, which is what I, what I hear you talking about. And so talk to me a little bit about where, because I think the soul is telling us something in those liminal spaces. And you talked about it being in the body. But when an

insight comes in, like a thought in that liminal space or a inner knowing, is there a way we can grow that insight into something that's more tangible for our life? Does that make sense? Yeah, totally. So it's the difference between knowing in your mind and the inner knowing, right? So the moment you're trying to be certain of something, you're coming from your head. The moment you go into, I wonder what a mystery, being curious about it. Yeah. You're in the soul. And I think it's interesting around that.

I think the older we get, particularly on the spiritual path, the first part of your spiritual awakening I call is awakening of the mind. You are like, oh my gosh, like you might find about. out about past lives or life between lives and, you know, all of this stuff and you're like, I need to find the purpose of life as if there's this finite answer that you're going to reach. The further you go along your spiritual journey, you realize all there is is the great mystery. But in that great mystery, all of the codes of life. And I think it takes a certain maturity to be in the I wonder.

But when you're in the I wonder, you're in surrender. You're in the merging with spirit. So actually, it's like a contradiction because the more you open to it, the more you will receive, that you will have that inner knowing for. So it's like the classic statement, the more I know, the less I know. Like the more I know, the more I realize I don't know. Yes, yes. But then the more you loosen your grip. on having to know the more you will know.

That's right. That's right. Fascinating. That's the other side of it. Oh my God. That's so good. Now, I want to go into, because I know you have written about this, I heard you on Nancy Levin's podcast talk about the motherline and the ancestral energy that comes through motherline. And you said something on that podcast that just blew my mind. And it was around this idea that our eggs are developed when we are in our mother's womb. And our mother's eggs were developed when she was in your grandmother's womb. And I started to think, yeah, that makes sense that the eggs in our ovaries are this genetic connection to all our mother, our grandmother, our great-grandmother. Like, it is a connection through the whole line.

So I had this thought that what happens when you go into menopause and now you're out of eggs. I'm just just for the sake of simplicity, you don't have any more eggs. I think that that is also a time to release yourself from the mothering that came through your ancestral line. and it's an opportunity to actually step in and mother yourself. That there is something energetic there that we cannot miss in this shutting down of this reproductive system that was created through the maternal line. I completely agree. And I think that when I wrote this book that I wrote, I wrote it as an older mom. but I had a I'd had a mystical experience years before around the mother line right so I had this

imprint from that but then when I gave birth to my son while I had already I was entering perimenopause I saw that I saw my separation I saw the inherited rage grief etc from my feminine line all the way back to the original mother, including gifts and all of that as well. But in my postpartum period, it all erupted out. And I was always confused as to, is this postpartum or is this perimenopause? Oh, yeah. And I think it was both. I think it was both. And for me, it was a period that was extremely intense at the beginning. I go all in when I'm in something. Yeah, me too.

Me too. Very, very, very, very intense. And I remember the day that it finished. And I had this experience. I was literally just driving through the countryside where I live here. I'd just been to a somatic session with my body worker. Uneventful, I was feeling really chilled. But all of a sudden,

I had this experience of my soul coming fully in and going back down the line all the way to the original point. When I had my son and gave birth to him and I started experiencing a lot of ancestral stuff, my grandma was also near end of life. And there was definitely something happening between her, my mom and I. And it was almost like my grandma and I were excited. expressing this rage together. It was incredible. But that felt like it was, it was coming from the line through me. But this moment was and I knew it was over. And then it was literally to the day that I knew I need to teach on this now. Like I had no desire to, but it was like,

and it's done. And I think that while my was quite full on, I do think many, many, many of us are going through it. And some of us are experiencing it through rage and grief. I think we're also experiencing it at a time when the collective is experiencing this too. And so it's more intense. It really is more intense. I'm also fascinated by the midlife transits as well, astrological transits. Pluto's for Pluto, uranus opposition, which lead into those years of perimenopause. Interesting. You know, the ancestral inheritance that we have is really interesting because science can

prove this. And so just to kind of pull the people who are listening to this that are a little more science-oriented, you know, I have, when I've heard of ancestral trauma or ancestral energy, I think with ancestral trauma, my brain is like, look, I have enough trauma already going on in this world. Like, I don't need to take on like that ancestral trauma. But when we look at neuroscience, it's really interesting because they've done studies where they'll take a rat in this horrible study. And they will torture the rat, create pain. And then they will put the smell of cherry blossoms into the rat's cage.

And what they have found, and it's a female rat, is that when you gave cherry blossom smell to the four generations down to the rats that came out of that female, that cherry blossom smell initiated the same reaction. So there is something that happens in that handing down of ancestral trauma. And I think we don't give it enough oxygen. And so then that leaves me with the question of like, well, how do you know you've said rage a couple of times now? And I'm thinking, how do we know if rage is just our soul being like, I want to actually speak my truth now? Or, hey, I came from a lineage of women that have an expression and are angry about something that is coming through me.

Is there a way to know the difference between that? I'd love to add another layer to that. Yeah, please. Particularly for us as women, which is we, not all women on the planet, but a lot of women on the planet actually have a voice now. And so those generations before us weren't able to express it, weren't able to say no, weren't able to speak their inner truth.

They had to be quiet, be nice, be pretty, you know. Yes. Let's just box it in. And so this is what I mean by the collective moment that's happening. It's so multifaceted and I think unprecedented as well. Yes. That's what I notice with this image I kept seeing when it was happening to me of my grandmother. She was, she had dementia.

You know, she's as, but it was classic dementia right at the end of her life. And she was yelling and screaming and upset. and I was experiencing the same feelings at nighttime. I'm like, what is this? Yeah. You know? And I think this is like the privilege of who we are right now that we actually, there are ways for us to express it and begin to talk about it.

Whereas previous generations, you just couldn't. And so, you know, it's like when I do a, I used to teach workshops, right? I still do now. But I remember the first retreat that I did. And I texted my friend because it was here in Glastonbury and there was between a couple of women, some sisterhood stuff came out. And I'd never experienced it this intensely before. And I texted my friend Alia and said, oh, I'm really upset. Like I'm like, what have I missed? Like how, have I not held the space right? And she said, by any chance is there, do you have more support than you've ever had

before. And I said yes. And she said, the more supported and safe people feel, the more stuff will come up and rise to the surface because the container is there. And that's what I think is happening right now collectively. So you just answered something for me because I have also been looking at cultural trends and asking myself like the Okinawa women, we look at these women with such respect because they have, you know, Okinawa has some of the most centenarians compared to any other place on the planet. And most of those satinarians are women. And when I dove in to like, what do they do to get to that, so many of them get to a hundred. And one of the things that they do is they create moyes. And moyes is a gathering of women where we share resources. So as I'm listening,

to you talk, I'm thinking, I am seeing these gatherings of women in a time like we've never seen before. And I'm also seeing the rage in women come out in a time in which we have never seen before. And you just explain that. Like when you feel supported, then there is a safety in which for that rage to come out. But yet, we live in a culture that doesn't like our women to be angry. So is there an appropriate way to express rage? So good. Dancing is my favorite way. Excellent.

Moving your body in whatever way that you want to. I've done a lot of screaming into pillows. I've also started doing practices in my groups where we collectively release it. Because sometimes we're releasing. stuff that is not just ours, you know. Right. Maybe it is as well. But it's way more than that as well.

So using your voice, and I know that, you know, maybe don't do it in your house without telling anyone. Yes. But you can go out somewhere in nature, for example. You know, I used to do this with a friend of mine. My friend, Amy Firth, she used to be in my podcast producer, actually. I went to university with her. and she really has been, she does the work of the feminine like me.

We've always been big feelers. When we were in our 20s in London, we were definitely like tapped into that feminine rage, I think. Like growing up, I think it's connected as well with that adolescent rage. I think it exists in different hormonal times in our lives. What we used to do, oh my God, I don't know why we did this. There were two things that we would do. and it was when we were drunk. Sometimes, I think this is why a lot of us drink and stuff.

It filters, but it also allows us to express things that we box in. And so we used to, when we would be walking home through the streets of London, I don't know why we decided to say this, but we would literally, I wrote it in my second book, Rises to Rise, we'd walk down the street and she would yell out, I'm a whore, I'm a whore of face. basically. And then I would hack up laughing and then it'd be like, you go, you go. And I would say it too. It was really, it had nothing to do with what we were actually doing, but it was all to do with this wild woman power that was within us that had no where to be expressed in our lives.

Yes. Yes. And we would do another thing. When my friend Blair passed, he passed very suddenly and We were grief-stricken. Just like, you know, how could this happen to someone so young? And again, it was when we were drinking because it just let us do it. And together with our other housemate Jackie, we would call it, I now know the cultural practice of my ancestry is Keening, where you would grieve together openly. And so we would do it. And we'd just call it wailing.

And we would sound the sounds in our body. and then like laugh so much because it was just ridiculous what we were doing. Yeah. But our body had the memory that that's what we were meant to be doing. We needed to drink to give ourselves permission to do it. Isn't that interesting? Yeah. And then now I've been on this journey of unpacking these ancestral indigenous traditions

that are from my ancestry that were definitely not passed down. and we all had them. And I think that deep down we do know how to take the lid off. And I think it's why a lot of us drink as a society. Yeah. Yeah. Because it is really, it's sad. And, you know, there's a real interesting movement right now to everybody is like,

stop drinking, stop drinking. And I feel like we need more context to that conversation. And part of that needs to be, especially for the perimenopause menopausal woman, the more I study this, the more I am convinced that the drinking, the anger, the crying, all of that is because you are shedding an old version of yourself and you're in confusion.

And there's a new version that's coming out. And so now society has been like, and you don't drink, don't drink. And I'm not advocating that people drink, but I think there needs to be like I would love to take every 40 year old woman and just be like you're about to go on a journey you've never experienced before and it's really a journey back to yourself and it's going to have a lot of highs and lows but if you stick with the process of it you're going to love who you become in the on the other side of that it's and yet it's really

so so interesting and I think you know I've got an example regarding alcohol on the other side, I drink, my husband doesn't. He didn't drink regularly, but he struggled to like, you know, once the switch, the off switch was on, he just loved having a good night out, I think. But knew it wasn't, it wasn't beneficial for him. So he made that decision. But after it, I noticed that he had a lot of anger that he needed to have a place to go. And he was, it was, he pushed it down. And there was this one time where, Remember he expressed himself the, it wasn't at me, but he expressed anger, right? And I called up my friend, Binnie Dansby, who is this, the wisest person I know, she's in a mid-80s.

And I called her and just said, Craig just did this. And I expected her to say, oh, how terrible, how terrible. And she said to me something that redefined my understanding of anger. and she said how wonderful that he feels safe enough to express that and not keep it bottled up. Beautiful. Beautiful. That is so beautiful. What do you say? I mean, this is, you know, a large reason why I wanted to bring you to my podcast was A, to expose people to the book, because I think this is a tool. I know I have picked up multiple times since it came out. And I found some, oh, this explains, what I'm feeling. But really, this is a mystical conversation of a transformation through the

lens of menopause. And I believe that a lot of people would be like, oh, this is so woo-woo. But there is so much we can learn from the woo-woo. So talk a little bit about what you would say to somebody who is listening to this and thinking for the first time about menopause as a mystical experience, not as a physiological experience. Are there words of wisdom we can give that woman? Is there, you know, something that we can leave this conversation on that launches women into really embracing this incredible time? Well, the first thing I would say is that this whole life is a great journey for the soul and that we have these thresholds, which are really really invitations, opportunities for us to say yes and more fully live. And so I would say it's a

spiritual invitation as well as a physical invitation. And the physical is inviting the spirit to come even more fully in. And, you know, that word inspired just means in spirit to live, to be a spirited person. It's, that's the spiritual journey. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and I, I think that's the journey of menopause. And that is what I really am hoping that we don't lose now in this new opening of a cultural conversation that has been like, let's put some cream and patches on. I'm not saying don't do that, but I'm hoping what people will gleam from this conversation is that there's something deeper here.

Let's not miss it. Let's not miss it. It's uncomfortable. But if you can stick with it and you can. get into nature and gather your people around you that create safety for you, you can actually emerge into a whole new version of you. And back to what you said about wise elders, I think this is what the planet needs right now. Yes, I literally literally, I totally agree. Like, we need you. We need you initiated. And maybe you haven't had someone to initiate you. So you initiate yourself

so you can then initiate someone else. The children of the world and those yet to come are craving it, aching it, needing it. The planet is needing it. Bingo, that's it. That is exactly it. So thank you for that. And again, I have so many questions because I've just really thought about this journey from so many angles. And where can people find you?

I will, I mean, I literally cannot say enough. go run out and get your book, your soul has a dream and your life is it. I don't know if people would initially think that this is a transformation book, a guide to transformation, but that is absolutely how I read it. So how do people find you? How do you find your other work so they can dive in to your teachers? Yeah, just head to my website. I'm Rebecca Campbell.combe.com. And yeah, I'm all over social media, YouTube and all of those places. I've got lots of books, oracle cards. What are you doing on YouTube?

I love YouTube. You said you're launching your YouTube channel. I mean, I've got my podcast returning with Rebecca Campbell. There's an amazing episode with Dr. Mindy on there. You'll just love it. It's the spiritual side of fasting. We had so much fun talking about it. And yeah, it's really just videos for your spiritual journey to really invite you to just love your life

and to live with more meaning and purpose. Yeah, yeah. Beautiful. Well, go go check out Rebecca. as YouTube because I think YouTube offers, you know, you can take a conversation like this and then you can really start to look at it from a bigger lens. So appreciate you so much, Rebecca. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you everyone. Thank you so much for joining me in today's episode. I love bringing thoughtful discussions about all things health to you. If you enjoyed it,

we'd love to know about it. So please leave us a review, share it with your friends, and let me know what your biggest takeaway is.