Live Like a Girl with Dr. Mindy Pelz - LeAnn Rimes' Health Journey: From Toxicity to Hormone Balance

Episode Date: December 5, 2022

For full show notes, resources mentioned, and transcripts, go to: www.drmindypelz.com/ep150/. To enroll in Dr. Mindy's Fasting membership, go to: resetacademy.drmindypelz.com. This episode covers different strategies for managing hormones and stress for women of all ages. LeAnn Rimes is an international multi-platinum-selling acclaimed singer and ASCAP award-winning songwriter who has sold more than 48 million units globally, won 2 Grammy® Awards; 12 Billboard Music Awards; 2 World Music Awards; 3 Academy of Country Music Awards; 2 Country Music Association Awards and one Dove Award. At 14, Rimes won "Best New Artist," making her the youngest solo artist to take home a Grammy® Award, and at 15, she became the first country artist to win "Artist of the Year" at the Billboard Music Awards. Passionate about using her voice to help heal the world, LeAnn was honored with the Ally of Equality Award by the Human Rights Campaign for her over 20 years of support of equal rights, the 2019 HOPE Award for Depression Advocacy, and 2009 ACM Humanitarian Award, among other recognitions. She continues to channel her voice in new ways, releasing CHANT: The Human & The Holy (EverLe Records / Thirty Tigers) in 2020, which spent 5 weeks at #1 on iTunes New Age Chart, as well as her iHeartRadio mental health and wholeness podcast, Wholly Human, that brings her lifestyle blog, Soul of EverLe, to life. Wholly Human previously reached #2 on iTunes Health & Fitness Chart, placed in the Top 35 overall for podcasts worldwide, and was recently named as one of the 15 best mental health podcasts that educate and empower listeners by Good Housekeeping.   Please see our medical disclaimer.

Hormones and your transmitters were so intrinsically tied together and, you know, suffering from anxiety and depression often on my whole life. It gave me some new context around what was actually happening in my body and that I wasn't insane. Resetters, Dr. Mindy here and I am on a mission to teach you just how powerful your body was built to be. This podcast is about giving you the power back and helping you believe in yourself again. Let's jump in. On this episode of the Resetter podcast, I bring you the one and only Leanne Rhymes. Now, let me give you a little bit of an insight into what you're about to hear and how this

conversation and interview actually even came around. So you will hear it in our discussion about November of 2021. Leanne reached out to me to help her with some hormonal. health that she was looking for help with, some detox. And so we started to work together. She had read the menopause reset and was wanting to figure out how to apply the principles that I laid out in that book to our own life. And as you'll hear in this discussion, it really became a journey of the two of us putting her health puzzle together and figuring out exactly where there was chemical stressors, emotional stressors, physical stressors,

how we could remove that, what nutrients needed to be built up in her body, how she could start fasting and eating for her cycle. There has been a tremendous amount of education that has gone into Leanne's journey. And what I think is so special about this conversation you're about to hear is that in 2021, of November 21, I was in the midst of writing fast like a girl. And so I had this really interesting experience with her where I would be writing all day and then she would send me a message asking me a question about her hormones. And I would then turn around and chat with her about what was going on in her own health journey with hormones and detox and all the things as she and I always point out.

And so literally, I tell you all that to say that she is in every fabric of every sentence I wrote in Fast Like a Girl. She was along the ride with me as I was deep in the trenches of writing that book. And so when it came time to find the right person to write the forward, there was just no other choice for me. She had to write the forward because she was in the whole experience of that booking getting out into the world. And so what you're going to hear in this story or in this episode is her health journey. And, you know, it's really easy for us to sit and look at her surreal upbringing and feel like, wow, glad that wasn't me or, wow, what was that like to win two Grammys at 13? You know, we can project our thoughts onto her.

But what I hope you will do as you're listening to this conversation is you'll see yourself in her. You'll see the traumas that she had, you know, so many of us had those same traumas. You'll see the challenges with her hormones that she had. So many of us have had those challenges. You'll see what she's trying to navigate at 40 for her own health and stepping into her authentic version of herself. Well, so many of us are doing the same. And what I love about Leanne is that she's so willing to share with the world her journey.

And so as you're going through this episode, you know, take it in, listen to it from your heart. I think you'll find that she'll crawl into your heart the same way she crawled into mine. She's so lovable. But I'm also hoping, and I know she would say the same, is that you find inspiration to be your own authentic self, to take your own healing power back the way that Leanne is taking hers back. Because ultimately, as women, that's what you're going to be. we should be stepping into, into our own unique health journey and living our own unique path, not trying to mimic what the world expects us to be. And Leanne is a beautiful example of

an incredible woman who is doing just that. So from the bottom of my heart, I bring you my dear friend Leanne Rimes, and I hope you enjoy this conversation and see the beautiful human that she is as much as I've gotten such a beautiful front row view to this woman's extraordinary heart. So, Leanne Rhymes, here you all go. Welcome to my podcast. Thank you very much. I'm very excited to be here. I'm very honored.

Thank you. Honestly. Wow, you're too kind. No, I listen to your podcast all the time and learn so much. So I'm just happy to be on here. Well, I'm excited because I think your story has a lot of really deep information for people to learn. And so I appreciate you. You're so transparent.

You're so willing to share your journey with the world. And it's just, it's incredible. And what I think is that your hormones have a story they want to tell. And that's what I'm hoping we're going to tell on this podcast today is Leanne Rhymes' hormonal history. and how she got her landed at 40 in the help that she's in? Are you game? Oh, yeah. With me?

Yeah, I'm definitely game. I don't think I've ever done an interview from that perspective. So this will be a first in all my 26 years of doing this. Amazing, amazing. Wait to you see what I have in store for you. And then I also just want to let our listeners know that it's totally okay to drink dry farm wines on the Resetter podcast. So Leanne and I maybe cheersing at a certain point in time. So then, you know, after when you're doing this in the afternoon, that's fair game.

So, okay, so let's start here. This is what's really interesting to me about people's hormones is the moment at which they decide that they've got to work on them. It's like, I feel like as women, we forget about our hormones until they drive us crazy enough that we're like, Like, holy shit, I've got to work on my hormones. So I know the point at which you came to me with that discussion, but my sense is it was actually a couple of years, even more than a couple of years before that, that you felt like your hormones were off. So let's start with that point. I really hadn't thought about my hormones at all until 39 because, I mean, it just never really crossed my mind until. until that 40, until 40 started creeping up. And my mom always used to tell me as a lot of women,

I think, are told, like everything goes downhill after 40. And so I just thought there had to be a better way. And then I stumbled upon you through Zach Bush's podcast and, or a panel you guys were doing together. And I just loved your energy and thought I needed to meet you. And so I started to dig into your work and into your book. and I wanted to just start to, I wanted to feel good going into 40. And I knew that there was a lot of things that I had not ever thought about or addressed. And I know hormones were one of them. And I've had an interesting journey with my hormones. I was on continuous birth control for maybe, I don't even know, maybe 15 years, over 15 years.

And so, which meant I never had a period. So I would just continue to take the next pack of pills. So, yeah, because I had really bad periods, very heavy. And everything would swell in me, including my vocal cord. So that was just, I had to cancel shows at the times. I was in the hospital, just severe pain. And I would lose my voice at times. So that was kind of, you know.

Oh, you go still? Go. Yeah. And this go-go-go-go-go-go-control was your, yeah, and birth control was like you're, I mean, that's, I mean, they throw birth control at every female problem. It doesn't matter if you're 65 or you're 16. Yeah. That's, that's the go-to. More birth control. That's, literally crazy. Like, I shut down my body, basically. I shut down my whole system, um, for a very long time. And then I, I actually started. to have a period. My body just wanted to have a period, I think. And the end of 2019, which was so fascinating to me because it was right before we all went into lockdown. So that was like in December and everything happened in March. And I just found it so fascinating that my body, I think my body knew my body was wanting to shed things. I think it gave me the perfect opportunity to be able to actually kind of allow my body to readjust.

and I was at home and I was off the constant, you know, hamster will. And when my body started doing that, I thought, you know what, it's time to face whatever is coming up in me. I mean, I've done enough of my own spiritual journey and healing to be able to go, okay, whatever's happening with the inflammation in my body is there's an emotional component, there's a physical component, there's a spiritual component to that. I was ready to face whatever that was because I've always put my career and my job and my work before my health. And so it was the first time where I really had the wherewithal, I think,

and the, you know, the courage to just be like, I come first instead of my job. And so the first time you get off birth control and you decide to try to go back to that, What is that like at 30, you would have been 38? I was 37, 37, 38? Yeah, 37. I actually was very fortunate. I had a period, like, immediately. Although I don't think my, nothing was really speaking to each other in my body.

But I did go back to a normal cycle pretty much right away, which I know is not the usual case for people. And then I started having this roller coaster ride of am I ovulating now? You know, alvulation was really tough on me. Like it still can be sometimes. I feel like my PMS was kind of reversed. I remember that. Where I would get PMS like right. Yeah, in ovulation, which has gotten a lot better.

But yeah, I just didn't know what was going on with my body. I was very disconnected with my cycle, the rhythm of. my body and I was constantly having, you know, with my job, I was constantly having to push through everything. So yeah, I had no idea what was going on. So I was rediscovering. It was like going through puberty. At 37s. Yeah. Oh, no. Yeah. And so let me ask you this, because this is so important for just women's overall literacy around hormones. When you got off that birth control and you were going back into the natural rhythms of your cycle. Did you know, like, what day of your cycle ovulation happened? Did you know what hormones came in at ovulation the week before your period? Like,

did you have any understanding of your cycle and, like, what was supposed to happen other than you got cramps and bled the week before? I knew when ovulation happened, but I didn't, I didn't know what hormones came in when. I mean, that was all news to me. Like, it was, it was, it was like learning a new language. But I had, I had the bit, little bit of knowledge of like when I was supposed to ovulate and what happened like the week before your period as far as, you know, for me, like, you know, cramping and a bit of depression and, you know, feeling lethargic and all that kind of stuff. I'm crying and everything, but I do that on a normal basis, like no matter what day it is. So, so yeah, that was really all I knew. It was pretty basic. Yeah. And you know,

you're now, now you know you're not alone in that, right? No, yes. I know I'm not alone. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, that's why I want to make sure to highlight that, because this is my new cry when I'm giving a speech as I ask the audience, like what they know about their hormones. And usually it's an audience of doctors and they don't know anything about hormones and how to time a woman's lifestyle to it. It's, it's criminal. It's horrible. Well, and that's the hard part as a woman is timing your lifestyle because we're not really, I mean, look, most of my life, like, is spent on stage and I would say 90% of the time there's a show happening when I'm supposed to be when my cycle is asking me to go down. Yes. When your cycle wants you to go hang in the cave and not come out.

Yes. And I do. I hang in the back of the bus and make it a cave until I have to come out. with my hot water bottle and yeah no it's it's you know that's the hardest part I think for a woman is even though especially when we have the knowledge I think that can be really frustrating for type A personality like myself um is that you know when you have all this knowledge it's like okay well how do I work around it and with it actually how do I work with it because I find myself always having to work around it and it's you know it's trying to find that

balance of even if I have to work, how do I still work with what's happening? Because, you know, that's it. That's the most challenging part because no one's life really kind of fits into that cyclical rhythm. Yeah. No, and I think this is the, this is the big challenge for women in general is that we want to do it all, but our hormones don't want us to do it all all the time. And so there's, we're meant to have more pauses and, and we'll get into that in a moment. But that is definitely one of the biggest challenges, I would say, in helping you find your rhythm with your hormones has definitely been like, okay, well, how do we do that? You and I've had conversations about, like, it's going to be a testosterone-driven day. And I just want to sit on the couch and eat pizza.

And yet, I've got interviews, and I can't do that. So then what do we put in place after that to be able to balance your hormones? I think that's the only way we can really thrive as powerful, driven women in this world is we're going to have to create some kind of buffer after the expense of a big hormonally depleting day. And I think that's a lot of planning. There's a lot of planning. Yes. Well said.

Well said. It is, but it's worth it. I mean, at the end of the day, I think, you know, to look ahead and know I was just, we're going on vacation in a couple weeks. And I was looking, I was like, oh, I can eat all the carbs while I'm on vacation because it's the end of my cycle. I was so happy about that. Sometimes it lines up.

That's going to say, that's like, no, no, like next year when you go to plan, like your next tour schedule, we need to take your cycle and like figure out how to map it according to that. But then you can't let your cycle change at all. So, but that's exactly what would be. It usually doesn't. So we could actually, because I have a plan next year completely yet. So I'm glad we're talking about this because I'm going to.

Let's do it. Let's do it because that's the biggest. And I've told you this before. Like one of the things that I had to really come to terms with was that I was raised to believe that as a woman, I could do anything I wanted to do. I could do anything a man could do. My mom even, you know, went as far as to say, you're a woman. You have an opinion.

Make sure you say it. So I was really lucky to be raised by a powerful woman. But what she didn't really teach me and not to her fault was when to be soft and when to rest. And when it's okay, it's not a sign of weakness to relax and let your nervous system mellow out. And it's taken me, you know, well into my 50s now to really practice that. And I still, I still struggle with it. Yes. So.

We have that in common. Yes, we do have that in common. So. Cheers to that. Yeah, but it is fun to tell you how to do it. Right? I know. Get you to quiet down.

So here's what I want to do. This is something that goes through my mind whenever I'm working with somebody. And I don't even know if I've really put it in this picture for you before. So I'm kind of curious how this will feel to you. But I like to go all the way back to the beginning. I like to look at what kind of stressors, physical, emotional, chemical stressors. mom was under when you were in the womb, what was your birth like, what was happening in those early years.

Because what I think you'll see and what I think everybody listening will see is that there was a hormonal picture that got created here that had you land into your 30s incredibly hormonally depleted and that depleted with neurotransmitters as well. So it's really interesting when you look at the whole life of that. somebody. It's really, when we go into those 40s, that life reveals itself. And that's a lot of what you're experiencing. So take me back to mom's pregnancy. Do you have any understanding of what her pregnancy was like? So, yeah, I don't know a lot about my mom's pregnancy. I do know she had really bad endometriosis when I was, I mean, before me. So she was told she could never have kids.

and they said she she said that they said she had one miscarriage but it was so early on she's like I don't even know if I did so she I was kind of her miracle baby basically and I think it was a okay pregnancy although I think she was probably really stressed mom's a warrior and I think my dad and her at the time

they had been married 12 years and I think they were they were about to get a divorce when my mom found out she was pregnant with me. And then I, my birth, I know I was, I was breached. I was turned sideways. I did not want to come out. Imagine that. Please don't bring me.

I know. No. But I came really quickly. They turned me around with forceups. And yeah, and I was birthed. I was healthy when I came out. And then that kind of changed. That changed pretty quickly.

quickly. Yeah. So let me ask you before you go into what happened after you were born. I want to point out two things that you might not know. One is that miscarriages often can be heavy metal toxicity. So whenever we look at a miscarriage, there's obviously a genetic something that went on to make it not viable. So it's always in some sense it's really good that you have a miscarriage. But to get rid of that non-viable fetus, but when you have heavy metals passed down through the generations, there's a lot of history of miscarriages. And I just want to point that out to you because you and I, yeah, you and I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out where your heavy metal load

comes from. And I think a piece of it definitely could be coming from mom. Oh, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so from there, do you want me to go from there? Yeah, keep going. Yeah. From there, I, yeah, I was diagnosed with psoriasis when I was two, which was very young. I'm still, I'm still always amazed at that, like, what caused, what caused me to have psoriasis of the two. I had strep throat, a really bad battle of strep throat, and that's what triggered it. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, I got to stop. I don't think I've heard that.

Yeah, I got to, we can't go leave that load where you put on. on antibiotics? Yes. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Okay, so before you go on, I just want to point out, zero to three, your microbiome is developing. You were, it was a vaginal delivery, right? She didn't get a C-section. Yes. Okay. So we know you came in with some kind of heavy metal load, potentially from, from mom. And that's, we all, I mean, this is not a, I passed my load down to my children. I mean, my mom passed it down to me. This is part of the generational handoff of, of But then you came into the world and then there was a toxification that happened, including antibiotics. And that, you and I have been talking about where did the psoriasis get triggered.

It could have been in that moment for sure. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I still have gut issues. Right. So, you know, I mean, I've been through many different rounds of antibiotics in my lifetime, like a lot. I mean, doctors just throw antibiotics. antibiotics at everything. And every time I'd get sick with the upper respiratory infection or whatever, I was like, here's another antibiotic. So, yeah, I mean, it started definitely back then. So then, you know, like emotionally, yes. So when they, when you were diagnosed with psoriasis,

what did they, they put you on medication right away? Yeah. So I, I first got it in my scalp. And then so, yeah, they put me on topical. And then by age of six, I was 80% covered. So I had massive lesions, like, all over my body. Everything but my hands, feet and face. So, like, my scalp was, like, a pure scab. It was awful. I had a Gekkerment treatment when I was six, which is where they wrap you on cold tar,

and you sit there for six hours for two weeks. And then they, I tried that at 11 again, which they had to send me to the emergency room because I had panic attack. So those were my first panic attacks. They started early. Then I knew what was going on at that time, not at six. And then between that time, they tried, I did a lot of topical steroids. I did a lot of topical coltar. And then in my, I would say in my teens and 20s, they gave me metatrexate.

They gave me cyclosporin. They gave me, I mean, like heavy medications for people, you know, that are having like organ transplants and things along those lines. They try to treat my treatment called Puba, which was where I would take these pills and I would stand in front of this light box that would pull the light like further into my body. And it made me so sick. Like I mean, all these medications really, you know, affected my immune system tremendously. So I was on the road and had no immune system and we get sick all the time.

Yeah. That's crazy. So, and we'll come back to this, this thing in a second. So they never really understood what triggered it in those early years, although, and in those zero to three is when the microbiome is being formed. So everything you do in those first three years makes all the difference. Do you remember like that,

do you know if you were living in a house with mold or what the environment in your home was like? No, I don't remember. collection of those first three years. No, I don't remember mold. I know I have to ask my mom about that. But I came home. Like, I mean, I think we lived in a trailer. Like, we lived in a trailer when I was little bitty. And then we lived in an apartment complex when I was from like six to tell about my own house at 13. At 13. Oh my gosh. Which is like surreal to think even like hear about, right? Yeah. It's so true. And at what age did they discover that your voice was great?

At 18 months old, I could sing. Like, my dad has tapes of me singing when I was 18 months old, and you couldn't understand a word I was saying. But then I would sing, and it was actually like, it was forms. I was, I think I was actually learning words through music, through the songs I was singing because I was so young. And then by five, like my voice was very, very different than most five-year-old. fully developed. And so were your parents musical? Like how did they listen to their 18 month old and go, wait a second, there's something spectacular here? Yeah. My dad played guitar a little bit and my mom loved music. Like they both loved music, but there was nothing, you know, it was nothing like what I did. But yeah, it was a very musical household. So my dad, but my mom would play, my mom would play Motown. My dad would play Motown. My dad would play a country.

and like classic rock and I um I just gravitated towards that and I also I think I gravitated towards the performance and the emotional piece of it like being able to express myself because I I grew up in a household where my mom my mom was very depressed I mean she had a hysterectomy like right after right after I came out so wow she was yeah there was a she was very attached and probably detached at the same time, if that's possible. And my dad was incredibly angry and kind of lived in this very anxiety-ridden place. So it was not a comfortable household. There was always this kind of push-pull of these two very, the two things that show up

in me now. The duality! Here's the duality. Oh, I never, that ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, little button hit there for me. Yeah. So, you know, from zero to seven, we absorb everything that is in our environment. So all of that is getting stuck in your subconscious mind, everything that goes on from zero to seven. So I've thought about this a lot with you is like you come out with this amazing talent.

you're in a household where there's a lot of mental anguish, which a lot of kids grow up in. And then you're catapulted out into the world in this very surreal way. Do you remember, like, was there a point where you were singing just because it was fun? And then all of a sudden, oh, no, we're going to go to singing competitions. We're going to like amp this up. Was there like a turning point in those early years that you remember? that it just changed into, gosh, this is going to be a thing? My dance teacher when I was five had convinced my mom to put me into a dance competition,

a song in dance competition. And I was, yeah, I was five at the time. So it was a six and under category. And there was no one else that was in the six and under category. So they put me in the seven to 12 year olds. And then I ended up winning like overall in the whole competition. this five-year-old. And that was, my dad was a hunter. So he, he saw me sing and then went hunting after and left and then came home to me with this massive trophy that was like five times the

size of me. And he asked me at that point, like, is this what you love? And of course, my five-year-old self was like, yeah. I mean, if I can win a trophy for that, absolutely. I want a big trophy, dad. Right. So I think, I think that I, there were so many layers to why I do what I do. I think I had a natural gift for it. I think I really did love music. And I also knew that that was a way for me to receive love. And so I think at that moment, like, you know, as much as a five-year-old can say, like, yeah, I love this.

It just kind of went from there. And I was always one of those that. I was an only, I'm an only child. So it was, you know, it was always like the achieve, achieve. So I, you know, I played softball competitively. I would take piano lessons. I was dancing. I was singing.

So there's always something going on. At some point, my parents looked at me and were like, you have to drop something. So I, I don't even remember what I dropped at the time. I think I dropped, I think I dropped dance for a moment. And then eventually, like, piano, I would not drop softball. Good job. Good job. Yes, I love softball so much. So yeah, it was, there was a constant, you know, achievement. So from zero to seven, all that programming gets instilled in our brains and then it plays out the rest of our life. So do you feel like you sing now to get love? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I absolutely, well, I absolutely have done that. And there's always a component to that.

but that's really shifted for me. I know I had a really quiet crowd the other night. I told you this. I had a really quiet crowd the other night. And I, you know, I feed off the crowd. Like I, you know, I feed off of that energy. And I sometimes will just go to a really dark place if people aren't giving me that energy back. And I'll start to spin in my head about, you know, what's wrong with me.

And I'm not, you know, am I not entertaining enough and all of those things? And I found myself singing for myself at that point because, yeah, and I don't know if I could have done that or been in that space or headspace if I wouldn't, if I hadn't already found the sense of love that comes from within because it was, it was enough for me to want to be good for myself. And that's amazing. That's a new shift. Yeah, it's a totally new shift. because I think I really, you know, search for that validation externally. And now it's like, oh, I could, you know, be singing for nobody and just want to be good for me and validate myself. And so that's a big shift.

That's huge. Like when you told me that the other day, I was like, how many shows have you done and you did one for you is like, is really amazing. And it's, don't you wish you could go back to your 20-year-old? and tell her that. Oh, yeah, absolutely. Because I mean, I can't tell you the times that I've been on stage. And I would search out in the crowd, like everybody who looked like they weren't having a good time or looked like they didn't want to be there. And it created this narrative in my head about how I was, there was something wrong with me. I mean, and there was, you know, because I've been through so much publicly and, you know, to have my name drug through the media. like it has been.

And at that time, I think that really, that created this perfect storm where I did have this, you know, if people were coming to the show, obviously they wanted to be there. But for me, it was like with every, started to look for people who judged me because I was judging myself so harshly, you know, ultimately. But this is what happens, I think,

with those, that subconscious programming, is that you look to validate it and you don't even realize you're doing it. Yeah. So like the fact that you, I don't even think you've fully realized what you did on Saturday night because the fact that you had, like it's like it was like a pattern interrupt to your nervous system. I mean, maybe you've done this before from stage, but to be able to say, I don't need the audience to show up a certain way. I'm going to do this for me.

Have you ever done that in it before in a, in a show? Or is that one of the? I know it's a new thing. I've been noticing a pattern for me is withholding love. And it's actually very painful because ultimately I think all of our nature is to is loving. But to have to be in a pattern where you're withholding something because you're afraid that you're going to get hurt. So you don't want to give it out because you think ultimately there's in my mind the word that comes up is I'm going to be destroyed. destroyed. And so, um, so that noticing that pattern and being able to, like you said,

interrupt it, I've, I've noticed that I'm very aware that the withholding even from stage will, it, it creates, like I said, these narratives in my head that hurt more than if I just give myself, all of myself, um, no matter what is coming back at me. And so if I, if I, And it feels good. Like it feels good to just know that I did my best with what I, what I have at that moment in time. And sometimes, I mean, Saturday night when I, when I experienced this, I was exhausted. I was so tired.

I had just spent through 10 days of tons of promotion for the new album. And I had no energy. So it's, you know, that's when I really need that. That's all I thought I did. I need that energy from the crowd to be able to kind of. kind of wake me up in live in me. And I was like, nope, I'm just going to do it for me. And, you know, it was, and I found people in the audience. That's the thing. I started looking for people in the audience that were like really in it with me, even though the whole crowd might not. Yeah.

And I started singing to them. And yeah, it was a, it was a different experience. And I think that's just my awareness of the pattern, you know, to be able to be like, oh, that's just, that's a pattern. I don't have to believe that pattern. Yeah. Which is so beautiful. because, I mean, A, so many people are unconscious as we move into our adult years that we don't even realize that what others have said to us, the experiences we had, especially in those zero to seven years when the subconscious mind is forming, we played out the rest of our life until we actually sit and say to ourselves, is this pattern of thought working for me anymore? And what I hear and what you just said is, okay, needing the audience to be a certain way, needing people to receive me in a certain way, I'm going to let that go and I'm going to let me serve me. I mean, that is, that's a huge shift.

And I'm really excited to watch as you go through your 40s because I think as women, as we get older, we take ownership of our happiness over a lot more. And we start to catch ourselves in those moments where we're like, I don't want to break my back to be able to make you happy. I'm going to make me happy first. And then if you want to follow, that's wonderful. Yeah, I was going to say, and in turn, I mean, serving myself in the moment, in turn, I serve everyone else too.

That's right. You know, like you said, if you want to join great. And if not, like, you're still getting this, you know, an enlivened piece of me. Like you're still, you know, it just, it doesn't bring me down in, in order to kind of fit the energy. I think that's a lot of, you know, we talk about energetic so much. And it's, I think some, especially being an only child and feeling like I needed to match the energetics of my parents in some way in order to receive love. I've allowed the energetics of the external and to pull me down. so that I can then feel like I'm meeting them in order to receive love.

And now I'm like, no, I'm just going to like, just going to give myself love. And if you want to join me in the love fest, then that's great. I freaking love that. I think that's so that's such a beautiful awareness to get to. So when did you win Star Search? Oh my gosh. So I didn't win. I won my first time and I lost my second time.

I was. I know. in my Leanne Ryan. No, well, I won the first time and then I lost my second time. The funny story about that, I was, there was the song that I was doing and there was, there was the key change in the song and they had it like three beats off from where the record was or how I normally did it. And they wouldn't change it.

And so it just like threw me into this loop of, I was just terrified because I was afraid I was going to miss it. And I just didn't, yeah, it just didn't work. And then I came off stage and my, my godmother was like, let's go to Disneyland and I'm like, cool, everything was better. So that's all it takes. So that wasn't the,

that wasn't the singing contest that launched you? No. So I, there was no real contest. I, I started singing at local operas in Texas when I was seven, like every Saturday night. And I made a little demo tape when I was nine,

I guess. And that got basically, um, circulated through all the blockbuster music stores when there was Blockbuster music stores. I remember Blockbuster. Yeah.

Blockbuster music stores. And so, and then I made another little demo tape when I was 11 that was my, was blue was my first song that was on that and that got picked up by a label and they just kind of got in their hands and that's how it all happened. But yeah, our big, you know, like American Idol, all those things are so huge enough to be discovered. but Star Search was it back then.

Yeah, I failed, but it was a good fail. Yes, Ed Big Man. I remember watching Star Search as a kid. And Shirley, you know, I've never asked you this. You should be like an American Idol judge, like or something like that. For God's sake, if anybody deserves that position, you do. That would be fun, actually. We've talked about that before.

So we'll see. Maybe that'll happen one of these days. Yeah, you'd be great at it. So, okay. And then how old were you when you won a grant with two Grammys? That was 14. Okay. So I've never asked you this question.

But you're 14 years old. The world is like super excited about you. And you're at the Grammys thinking you could win. But I'm trying to think of this from a 14 year old's perspective. How do you like, how do you even, do you understand the magnitude of what that award is at that time? No, not at all. And I was sick with 104 fever and flu that night. And I, they told me, so no country artists and no country artists had ever won best new artist.

And of course, I was 14 too. So everybody was thinking I wouldn't win anything that night. And I remember asking my publicist, I was like, should I think of something to say? And they're like, no, you know, they were just really honest. Like, it's probably what happened. I'm like, well, then why am I going? because I'm sick as a dog. It was cold outside.

I remember in the limo there, I had my face pressed up against the window because it was, I was so sick because it was cold and I felt good. I get there and they have a pre-awards and I was up for best vocal performance for Blue. And I won that and they were like, well, maybe you should think of something to say in case. But the second one.

Yeah, in case. And so I did, I won that award that night. I don't remember anything from that night except for being really ill. And it just being like this whirlwind. I have to watch when I watch footage of it, like I can vaguely like recall that moment. But my, yeah, my parents were going through a divorce at that time, like right when that happened. I remember all the bad things.

It's like looking for people. Like a good teenager should. Yeah. It's like looking for the people in the audience that don't love me. It's, yeah, it's that piece of my brain that that's what it recalls is, you know, illness and divorce. But, I mean, it was an incredible moment. And no, I didn't understand the magnitude of that. Yeah.

And did you get like why all the adults around you were like, holy shit, this is amazing? Like, were you riding off of their, like, adult knowledge of what had just gone on? Yeah, I think so. Yeah, that probably was the case. But it was like, I mean, that time of my life, I was, you know, I was doing four hours of school, homeschooling a day. I was doing interview after interview and then going on stage and performing every night. So like my schedule had, there was no room to think at all. Interesting. And maybe not even to experience joy. Yeah. Yeah, no. I mean, my, my schedule. joy at that at that moment in time was like I would go to the mall all my day off you know or and which was insane because I don't know how I thought that like no one would recognize me it was it was chaos everywhere that I went or I would put on my roller blades and like skate around the arena that we were you know touring in but that was normal to me like not till you know not till I had my step-s

sons around me who were two and six when I was first in their lives like one thing. the oldest to 11, I understood, like, that's when I signed my record deal. So I had no, I had no form of reference, really, until them to go, oh, that was like incredibly abnormal. Right. Wow. And so what, we've talked a little bit about your dopamine system at that point. And I actually, prior to this interview, you know, I'm like super fascinated by neurotransmitters right now. And so I wanted to go back and look at like, when did the, when does the dopamine system come in? When does the serotonin system come in? So check this out.

So this is, this is, this is your guy, everybody's getting a little behind the scenes of how you and I chat with each other. But GABA, the calming neurotransmitter, is actually formulated in the womb. So that whole system actually comes in the womb and you start to get the development based off of mom's GABA system. that explains a lot because my mom is such a warrior. And check this out. So the two precursors for GABA at that time are glycine and glutamine. They help make GABA. So if mom's deficient in GABA, that in those two things, she'll be deficient in GABA. She's a warrior, so she's using a lot of GABA. You're in the womb and your GABA system is developing. guess what two amino acids are missing in your most recent test.

Those. Yep. I almost sent you a message today and was like, oh, my God, another puzzle piece. Like, I don't think you've had enough to make GABA from the beginning, which I know that, you know, anxiety's been a pretty common experience for you. Yeah, if I really think about my anxiety, like, you know, between the psoriasis and then, like, I would have reoccurring nightmares. as a child. Like I never, you know, I slept, I slept with my mom until I was 11 because I couldn't,

like I was afraid people were going to come get me in the middle of the night. Like I had a real, I have no GABA. Right. You had no GABA. Yeah. And then check this out. So, so from like zero to 13, your nervous system that is being developed is the sympathetic nervous system. It's not until you actually go through puberty that the parasympathetic starts to kick in. Oh, then I was screwed. Yeah, a little bit. Like, if you think about, like, you were in this real environment with all these adults swirling around you, I can only imagine, like, what was going through their head and,

you know, all the ways that they wanted to, you know, see you as a human, your career at this young age. But you had no GABA. Your dopamine, dopamine comes in. from about eight and under, we have the most amount of dopamine and serotonin, and then it slowly depletes after that. So I also wonder if your serotonin and dopamine system were already getting drained. I mean, you and I've talked about this, like a Grammy, winning a Grammy had to be like a massive dopamine rush. And then after that had to be kind of sucky. I don't know. Can you

remember how you felt a couple days afterwards? I don't at that point. But it's funny because I, you know, I just released my new album. And as soon as midnight struck and the album was out, I could already feel the come down. Oh. Yeah. And I remember we went to dinner that night and I was like, we went back to the room and I looked at Eddie and I was like,

I hate this feeling because it's hard because it's joyous. I'm so happy. It's out there. But then the feeling of the coming. down and it happens I mean it happens every time I go on stage. Yeah. There's a calm down after and it's like a crash and it feels like it feels like it feels drug induced. Yeah.

Um, you know, and it's not and it's just, but it feels like it's it's drug induced. And there's always this come down and this crash. And then, you know, I wake up the next morning and have to like try to get myself wrapped up again. And so I just, I just experienced that hardcore, um, crash from. such a big, like, you know, defining moment for me. And I can only imagine, like, think about how many of those I've been through in my life. I mean, luckily, luckily there's been many, but it's a constant roller coaster. Yeah, I mean, when I, I've, I've thought about this a lot that your nervous system is chemically addicted to this life that was created for you. And so,

as you are taking back your life and being like, this is the way I'm going to live it, then there's a taking back of those chemicals as well. And what you and I've talked a lot about. And then I don't create them at this moment or I'm creating less of them. Or you're creating less of them. But it's like, you know, dopamine is like anything else that we're addicted to. It's like in order to get off the addiction, there has to be a little bit of a letdown. But yet navigating what does that letdown look like, I think has been really is interesting for all of us,

but especially for someone like you who has been had these so many dopamine rich moments that how at 40 years old do you just sit on the couch because there's no dopamine on the couch? But can there be? Can my couch up for me? I was just thinking, as we're talking about this, I'm like, can couch time become a piece of like my dopamine hit because I have never, I haven't had it? Maybe if you bring chocolate to the couch,

Oh, I totally bring chocolate to the couch. I love where you're going with this. Go, yeah. No, no. I'm just thinking, like, could that I wonder how we create dopamine in that situation. Because it is very, like, you know, my couch time, I really love being on the couch. But it's when I lay down, like, my body goes into, my body basically goes into fight or flight because it thinks, like, what the hell are you doing sitting down?

Right. You know, there's so much to do. I mean, that's, that's, so, you know, that has been like the really interesting, um, aha for me watching your life is been that you've got this mixture of hormones and we're, we're getting into that here at a moment. And, um, you know, trying to rebalance your hormones, rebalance your dopamine and serotonin and gaba system and then rebalance your nervous system. but, you know, where other kids as they grew up had like high moments and then relaxation, high moments and the relaxation, you had more dopamine, like sympathetic nervous system moments than a growing child should have. Yeah, there's no, there was no relaxation. And I was just noticing doing all of this press that I just did for the album, you know,

when I had like, I basically had, I had three shows and then I had three days on of like, intense press and interview after interview after interview and I would go home at night and have no way to relax like nothing does it nothing will help me I my sleep like my heart rate's so elevated like everything is because my body's still in fight or flight and I the great thing is though when I was done with it I have noticed I noticed the crash and I also noticed that I have my just normal level of anxiety not like the extreme level so I recognize I was able to recognize that my body was actually coming out of that fighter flight. And back to my normal baseline.

Yeah. And I also recognize how intense that fighter flight became in that situation. And I think back to my early childhood. And that's how intense it was all the time. All the time. Yeah. I can't even imagine. I mean, I think very few of us have any reference point.

as adults we have reference point but not as a child when you should be out playing in the in the neighborhood um and experiencing joy that was you know you had a different level of of joy different joys yeah but it i i think of it if i really think if there's anyone that can um you know anybody who's been in like an daily kind of uh it feels like a war zone i'll i'll i'll equate it to that it feels like your body is in a is in a war zone at all times. Yeah. And it doesn't know how to come out. And I noticing like we're saying like this said, noticing the crash and then being

able to kind of come back to a baseline, I'm like, oh, there is a, there is a flexibility, even though my baseline doesn't feel completely comfortable. Right. Or relaxed. There is a lower baseline than what I think I was living in. And do you feel like now, you know, you're starting, at least you're starting to see that. And then you're gathering the tools on what you need to be able to practice parasympathetic, to be aware of when that nervous system needs

to relax. I'm like, I just take a really new guy. I saw you. Yeah, I mean, I, yes, I, I have tools to be able to help myself relax, although sometimes I will feel like my nervous system is so deeply foundationally programmed in this way that I don't think I know yet, I'll say yet, what a real relaxed, like, quote unquote, normal nervous system feels like. It's coming. I am hell bad determined to make sure you experience that. And yeah, and, you know, the other part of what happens in those years, if you look at when your life was catapulted into everybody's public eye, is that that's also the time you're supposed to get your parasympathetic nervous system maturing. So there's a lot of conversation about people saying, well, my, you know, my teenager

sleeps all the time and doesn't pick up after themselves. And they're, you know, They move so slow and what they often is not well understood is that that's what's supposed to happen in the teenage years. There's a mat, a maturing of that parasympathetic nervous system and that's what your teenage child is doing. You didn't get that opportunity. So you've got to go at 40 now and really work on practicing parasympathetic almost like a teenager would and go back and retrain that.

And, you know, it's easy for people listening to go, well, yeah, you know, I didn't grow up as Leanne Rhymes, but there are people who were, you know, sexually assaulted at that age that grew up. It's trauma, any kind of trauma. Yeah. Yeah. Any kind of traumatic situation were on a daily basis. There was a continual fight or flight response. And really interesting, too, because I go into freeze, too. you know if you can't fight or flee you you freeze and so um there's a and and i you know

what i equate uh relaxation to is normally a freeze response because i feel like if i relax too much there's no drive out of it um so my anxiety and that that fight or flight actually feels like what stimulates me to to to to do in the world to go so yeah So anytime I crash and go into what I perceive as a freeze response because my freeze response and my relaxation are so intertwined, I fear that place. Yeah. Because I feel like, oh, I'm going to just, I'm going to get eaten alive by this relaxation thing and I'm going to just never be able to move from it. So, you know, you and I've talked about the polyvagal theory that the way that stress should

happen is we should have stress, we should go into sympathetic, and then. then we go into parasympathetic and relax and then we go into sympathetic and then we go into parasympathetic and we should be in and out of those all the time but what you're just describing is that you went to that next layer of a nervous system the freeze one and that's where we want to withdraw we want to numb ourselves with food alcohol drugs it's where we complete it's the opposite of sympathetic we completely withdraw which is what what it sounds like again I just want to point out that in this day and age, we're seeing so many teenagers go through that. They're constantly in that freeze nervous system. So just being aware of it is really important and pulling yourself

out of it in that moment and being like, I'm going into freeze, but I really need to be going into parasympathetic. How do I get there and having tools to that is what I know you're learning to do. Yeah, I was going to say that's still, I'm still learning. Although, if I really think about it. You know, I actually had, um, my trainer today was she's, she was commenting on the fact she's like, your energy level is very different after you come home from, you know, these long periods of time of being on the road. She's like, you usually would have like zero energy. And I know you're tired, but you have more energy. And, you know, like I'm noticing, like I said, the I'm not going into complete freeze.

I am allowing myself to have the crash, feeling a little bit uncomfortable in the crash, and then letting myself sleep. I take naps now. Like I'm able to, you know, I'm able to, I mean, these are tools now that I'm able to kind of, I'm starting to train myself to go into that parasympathetic stay instead of freeze and just recognize that, hey, I'm tired. and I'm going to do what I can with what I have today and not try to force myself, you know, any further past that.

I think is a huge thing because I was constantly like trying to get, you know, to get myself out of that free state. I was pushing myself way further than I ever could. And you can't push yourself out of freeze. That's the thing. And that's like the thing about, well, I'm like, I've done it a few times. I mean, that's the thing. Like I think I've had to override my body in so many ways that I've found ways to get myself out of

that state. And that the way is the anxiety. I think that's what I'm, you know, it's like, it's like, it's the energy out of freeze for me. Right. Yeah, that makes so much sense. And I'm going to tell you, you're doing way better with the relaxation than when I first met you. Like, I remember you were like, what do you want me to do when I come home?

sit on the couch. That's like a torture. So you've definitely gotten better at that. But I see everything through the lens of your nervous system and your and your hormone, your neurochemical system. And I always think, God, you were just set up for failure when it comes to relaxation in this surreal world that you live in. Even down to, I've thought about, you talked about, you know, you wanted to roller skate

around the neighborhood. And now people are wrecked. recognizing you. Like, what is that? Talk a little bit about what that's like. You go out into the world. It's not like, you're not like, I don't know what it's like now, but for all those years, it's like a constant amping up of the nervous system.

You're just trying to go out and be a normal human and people are recognizing you. Yeah, it's still that way. You know, I think as a child, what got formed in that way was that I was a child and I was a cute little girl and I had to be nice. you know, and I couldn't tell anyone no, and I couldn't, I couldn't stop people from taking a photo or asking for an autograph, you know, there were no boundaries. And so now that system's still in place, but I'm better about boundaries, you know, with people and, but I'm, it's still, you know, now you have people like taking pictures of you with their camera phones, like from a distance,

which is really the only time of every amount of people I see people doing that I'm like you know you can ask right yeah but then like if you get a long line of people like so I you know I would rather people come up to me and talk to me that I would like no but someone sneaking a photo it just seems like because I think also you know I've been you know I've been followed I get followed by paparazzi all the time and it's like they're they'll hide in the bush they'll hide in their car and like it always feels like I mean spied upon right and so I would rather have like a conversation with people or like kind people like come up and say hello. Then the spying upon is what has always put my nervous system into like this into fight or flight. Because you're constantly like looking over your shoulder and that, you know, now with phones and people in social media, that's become even more of thing.

And so yeah, I mean, my anonymity is it's not. I've never had any that I can remember. So that definitely has put me in a very awkward place, this feeling of having to be guarded. But that's also, you know, like I said, to have a boundary now and to be like, you know, it's 5.30. Can we just in a.m. can we just say hi to each other? It's so nice to meet you. I don't feel like, I don't feel up for it. Like I'm able to say that now. Where as a kid, like it was always like, they're going to think you're really mean if you, you know, if you don't give them what they want.

Yeah. So that's shifted. I think that's a really polite way of saying everything that you just said. But I feel like from a nervous system standpoint, I don't know, you've made me really think about how we interact with our celebrities because it's, you know, it's your nervous system every time you go out. If somebody's going to be like, take a picture, paparazzi is going to jump out at you. They're going to recognize you.

your nervous system is never able to relax even going to the freaking grocery store. And I think that's, that is, that's, that's unfair, you know, like, I mean, this is where, like, you know, the mama bear in me kicks in because I feel like you've already given so much to the world and we've all benefited from your beautiful voice. And whether it's you or, or our favorite actor or somebody else, the fact that we feel like we want to talk to you when we see you out in the world is almost, I mean, this is just me. I feel like it's a little bit of a level of disrespect because you deserve to be able to go out into the world and have a calm nervous system and not constantly be bombarded. But can anyone go out in this world and have a calm

nervous system? I don't care if you're celebrity or not. I feel like, maybe. I feel like we, you know, we just are, we're in this world where if we go out the door, we've been programmed. you know, to think... It's a good point. We've been programmed to think that everyone is against us, that everyone's bad, everyone's lying. Like, I mean, really, this is, that's a world I grew up in. I'm sure a lot of other people grew up in that too.

And it's, you know, I've had to retrain myself. And honestly, from a celebrity point of view, like, I will, like I said, I know I have boundaries now. I know I can say no, which knowing I can say no kindly is a really big, like, like weight off my shoulders. And I feel like I, you know, I feel like I have really good people around me that protect me too, which is nice to have around. That actually set a boundary when I sometimes can't. And I feel like, you know, being out in public, yeah, I feel like it's, yeah, I think just as a human being these days, like we have so many stressors coming towards us.

and it's i've had to reprogram my mind to see the good in people to you know to give people the benefit of the doubt to know that we're all go we've all had our traumas to know that we all react from the traumas yeah and i i have even though there's a child in me that is still keeping up a wall i make a really um i make an effort to know that that that's playing in the background because I think, like I said, it's so foundational for me, that that tape is still running or that it's not even the mental tape, it's the energetic tape. The energetic tape is still running, although I am choosing to allow that to run and still be present with people in the world.

Because there was a time, and I'll still go through it sometimes. Like, I won't look people in the eye because I know if I look up, like somebody's going to be like, oh, hey. So, but now I will. I want to, like I want to connect with people. Like I want this to not, I don't need them to recognize me or connect in that way. I just want to smile at people. And I want to like, I want, I think I want people to know that they're not alone.

And sometimes I feel very lonely being on the road. And it's like I need to see people's eyes. I need to, I mean, think about like all we went through with the masks and like not being able to, I would smile underneath my mask and be like, no one can see me. And I just wanted to feel good today. So, yeah, I think it's, I think it's just part of our world. And we have to consciously make the effort to reshift that programming. Because it's what we've been fed all of these years.

And what I hear in all of that is when we come, celebrity or not, in admiration of our celebrities or not, just two humans interacting with two humans. if we can come with kindness and compassion. And I've really learned this in my own life of like, when I'm interacting with somebody, I know that I'm not just interacting with the face I'm seeing in that moment. I'm interacting with somebody who's cried their eyes out on the worst days, who might have some traumas that maybe has something really interesting, some interesting story that I can learn from. Like there's a history when I'm interacting with another human.

And I have so much compassion for that history because I don't know what it is. But it's that history that they bring to the interaction with me. So if they are edgy with me, I always think, I don't know what their day was like. I don't know what their childhood was like. But I do know that I can, I can, I cannot react to the energy that they're giving me. I can give them a smile. I can show up as kindness. and I can try to make their day better.

And I think what I hear from you is if we just, when we see our celebrities that we love out there, if we just approach them with that same level of love and appreciation, that would make it much easier as someone in your position to be able to receive it and have this really cool human experience. Is that? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I love having those experiences with people when it's on that kind of level. especially, you know, people share stories with me all the time of how something I've recorded or something I did, like, affected them and has changed their life.

And, you know, like, I've had to learn how to receive that because it's, it comes out of me often. And because I've had such a wall, I've had to, I can't let it in. And now, now I can. Yeah. But it's, yeah, it's, it is, I think we, we really. have kind of blocked out the human side of our celebrities for so long. And then we want, you know, we want to cancel everyone because of their humanity. And it's like, okay, we need to find this common ground that just because someone has a gift and a talent and this famous, you know, it doesn't mean they're any less human. And so I think, I think that it's starting to change.

I know that that's part of, I feel like that's part of my work in this world is bringing my humanity to my celebrity. You know, it's, it's, it's, I felt very much like I've had these kind of two sides of myself, especially as a child. Um, and now like my, my, my journey has been to create this one whole self of where I feel like, you know, Leanne Rhymes is also Leanne. And it's all one, it's all one consistent human. Um, and so, and that feels so good speaking of feeling good to nervous system. It's like that feels good to my nervous system because I'm not having to fracture myself in order to do my job or in order to be out in the world or order to do an interview.

So it's, you know, and that's still kind of congealing. Yeah, I love it. It's still forming. But that's been, you know, my last several years of my life has been becoming that one whole human. I just love that. Okay, talk to me about your, Let's go to 13, 14. How old were you when you started your period? I was 10. Oh, you were 10. And do you remember the day you started your period?

I did everything young. Yeah, right. Yeah, obviously. Yeah, no, I started at my grandmother's funeral. Oh, that's right. Yes, which is really trippy. Super trippy and symbolic. Yes, very.

It was right before my 11th birthday. She passed away and I started out her funeral. And yeah, I always wanted, I was always wanting to shave my legs as a kid. I was like, I wanted, I wanted to be a woman. Like, I really wanted that piece of my life. Yeah. And so I remember, you know,

and not being a really big deal, like in my family. We didn't really discuss it a lot. Like there was, I don't remember much discussion around it. Like I had, you know, sex ed when I was in like fourth grade. But that was basically the time I was starting my period. So it was... This is what every woman got. This is my big, like, what is going on?

Stop making the gym teachers teach us sex ed. So awful. But did you have the relationship with your mom where you could be like, hey, I know your mother just died, but I just started my period or were you... No, I had... I didn't talk to her much about it. I talked to my dad more about it than my mom. Yeah, like my dad took me to get, you know, pad, deathed store

and it was all, which was kind of weird at the same time. You know, I remember my sex talk was like, my dad drove my bus. And he, I was up front with him one night and he basically was just like

so, because I was now into boys like, you know, 14. And he fumbled on the conversation about sex and it was kind of like, you know about that right? And I'm like, yep. I know, yeah, that's it. That was like that. That was the conversation. It's not, I can tell you as a parent. It's not an easy one to have. No, you got to be careful. And that was it. That was it. That was it. You know, I never had, there was never a discussion in my family about it. And if I, if I did have a discussion, it was with my godmother. And then I would come back and tell my parents that what she told me and then she would get in trouble. So it was always like very, it was always very shameful. There was so much shame around. Yeah. Being a woman and sex and my body.

Okay, but then the opposite of that is this beautiful teenager that is on stage singing some very mature songs. Is there an inconsistency that shows up in you when you're like a sex symbol on stage, but then you get off stage and there's more of a Puritan message given to you? Yeah, there was, you know, I was pretty wholesome, you know, kind of America's sweetheart until, you know, like, 17 and I did Coyote Ugly and then kind of everything went down from there. But I, that's when I first had my, you know, my first kind of, that was the launch into like sex cells. And I was very uncomfortable with that and very uncomfortable with being projected upon as, you know, a sex symbol in any way as I got older. But those first few years was,

You know, it was this kind of very, very pure young girl. And people didn't want to see me grow up from that. And they had a really hard time with it. And there was very much a timestamp of, in people's minds of who I was. So honestly, only in the last probably like, I would say five or six years that I feel like people actually allowed them to grow up. That's crazy if you think about. Which is really messed up. And as far as like for my mind.

Yeah. of the shame around, you know, coming into my own as a woman and, you know, trying to keep myself this little girl in some way because I think that's what people want. Yeah, you were trying to. Yeah. And yeah. And then then going through, you know, when Eddie and I got together a very public affair and that was like, I think that was my like burning down the whole, that whole piece.

Like that was unconscious. But I can look back now and be like, oh, there was a very. that was a choice that that kid, like, needed to make an order to burn that down. Because that was really the only way of severing, you know, that idea that people had in their mind with me. And then it took all of that to go through, you know, them now allowing me to kind of, oh, now we see you as a 40-year-old woman. Right. Yeah.

As a regular human woman. Human. Yes. You're not like a mermaid or like a little Barbie dog. Exactly. That's what it felt like for sure. But I also think from a toxicity standpoint, you and I have talked about this, like the number of beauty products they put on you, the, you know, the amount of synthetic environments you were in, just all the chemicals you have breathed in. You know, I remember one of the things you told me was that they put like, I think veneers on you when you were like in your teenage years to like, yeah, to make you look a certain way. And now when I look at you, I just see this really natural woman. And how long did it take you to get your authentic, like, look back? Yeah. I mean, there's always been, I feel like, some sort of something I was fighting when it comes to. I mean, I think everybody does in this, not only celebrities, but I think women, you know, we think we have to be our, we have to, we have to be more than what we are. And, you know, I, you know, I. I went through a phase of like using Botox for a moment, like in my early 30s.

And then I found a facials who's a genius. And I haven't put anything next to forever. So I've, you know, I've, I accept these things about myself now. And I want to, you know, age gracefully. But it's taken, it's taken all of 40 years to like feel good in my own skin. To get to that point. Yeah, I think last, it was it last year before? I posted an Instagram photo of me with psoriasis on my body, which I had talked about psoriasis for a long time, but no one had ever seen me with it because I had been on biologic drugs forever.

And then I came off of the biologics because I thought maybe my body was in a different place. And I was fine for about two years and the pandemic hit and the stress of the pandemic. Just I broke out everywhere. And I thought, you know, I'm going to take this moment and actually show people that I, number one, do have it. And I know so many people are going through it. I wanted them to feel less alone in that moment. And it gave me this opportunity to, like, to show the young piece of me that they were safe, even with this on my body. And I think that moment in time was really when I started to reclaim my own sense of what's beautiful to me and how I can show up in the world.

and it doesn't have to be polished and perfect all the time. I can still be loved in all my forms. And so I think that was a real defining moment because there was a child forever, you know, this little piece of me who covered up everything, every part of my body because I was afraid to be seen. So, you know, I was 38 when I really started to reclaim that for myself. Which is amazing. And I've told you this before that, and I know you know this,

is like every time you stand up and you take ownership over your authentic self, you give thousands, probably millions of women permission to do the same. And you can do it at the number of eyeballs on you. You can do it at such a big scale. And I don't mean that as pressure. I mean that as it's just beautiful to watch because one of the things I feel when I watch women is, that we are all putting masks on. We're all trying to be something that we have, a parent has set a high bar for us or society has had set a high bar. And I feel like as I age, the more, the less I'm willing to do anything to anybody

else's agenda because it's just freaking exhausting. So when like someone like you, when, you know, Leanne Rheim stands up and says, I've got psoriasis, deal with it. This is what I got. Everybody else gets permission to do the same. And, you know, I see a culture where as women, we all do that. We stand up and we stop trying to be the Instagram perfect person. And we're like, this is who I am. This is just who I am. Some days I'm like this. Some days I'm like that. I just see that as freedom for women. I agree. I mean, I think freedom is the word that for me is driving this part of my life. life more and more. I mean, like, look, I still wear hair extensions. I still do things like I,

but I, what I found that I asked myself where it's coming from. Like, do I, am I needing this? Because I feel like I have to live up to an expectation or for me, like hair extensions make my life easier because I can braid my hair and then be done with it. It has wave and I'm like, I'm done. Yeah. So it becomes like, you know, when I have to be doing, when I'm doing stuff all the time, it just becomes like an easier thing for me. So I'm constantly asking myself, like, why am I doing that thing? Because if it's coming from this place of me feeling like I'm trying to live up to an expectation, I start to go, okay, well, let me reassess that.

And sometimes there can be a mixed bag in that. But once again, it comes back to the awareness of, oh, yeah, that is still there for me. I still feel like I need that. And sometimes it's really just out of like, you know, it feeling, being a bit of ease for me in my life. And, you know, there's, like, I've shown up. I don't wear heels anymore. It's a rarity.

And even if I wear them down on a red carpet, it's like they come off at the end. Like I'm barefoot most of the time. It's all about comfort for me. And, you know, feeling like, Feeling good. That's the thing. For me, it comes from how I always ask myself the question of how does this make me feel? Because I used to not care what I felt. It was how it looked. Yeah. And, you know, I grew up in a household where that was very important. And I think we, yeah, how we looked. You know, how it looked to someone else. And so now it's like, okay, well, if it's, if it's making me feel good, I don't really, but once again, you can come along for. this ride or not. Right. Right. Or what about if, I mean, to your duality idea, what if you, like, I can be Leanne sitting on the couch with like, you know, my sweats on and I'm totally happy.

Or I can be Leanne, like, dressed up, you know, ready to go perform and be totally happy. Yes. I do that. Yeah. Can exist and they can both be really wonderful. But they can, but why are you dressing up? Ah, you tell me. That's a great question. That's the thing like why that's what I ask myself is why do I feel like, do I feel like I have to dress up or am I dressing up because I want to dress up? That's a huge question that I ask myself all the time. And it's is it coming from inside of me?

Is it, you know, because I, there are times when I have wanted to get like all dolls up and like feel really good in that way. Because that is a piece of me. I enjoy that, but is it coming from the enjoyment of it or is it coming from the, you know, the have to? Right. Yeah. It's a, it's and why do we like, why do we put makeup on? Why do we dress a certain way? Like when we actually choose clothes, like, and choose to look a certain way. Is that a conditioned response? I mean, these are all. Most of the time, yes. Yes, it is. Most of the time it is. Until you start. to ask yourself these questions, you don't see how conditioned we are. Yeah. And then can you, like for me, especially around clothing, like I, you know, can I show up

in a way that other people, that is opposite of the way people expect me to show up and still feel loved and enough? Yeah. You know, I mean, that is, and I think COVID, you know, doing the whole pandemic, I think it really gave me the opportunity to start showing up in a different way and recognize that I don't have to be Leon Rhymes and all its glory in order to still be Leon Rimes. Right, right, right. Yeah, the sweatpants tour, I'm still waiting for that one.

We're, we've literally just talked about it the other day. Really? Everybody can come in sweatpants. Yeah, I'm still. It's a beautiful idea. I'm still thinking about it. Yeah, and you need to invite Jewel because I follow her. Instagram and she like I freaking love that woman like she shows up in the airport and she's like look at

what I put on like I can't believe I put yeah I'm like I can't believe not only did you put that horrific outfit on but you're on Instagram owning it it's so beautiful to watch and all her uniqueness I think that's a good idea maybe we should do the sweatpants tour that would be really fun you definitely maybe you can gather all the artists that have been dying to wear sweatpants He's like the leader of the pack. I just love it. It's like the new Lilith Fair, but with you. Yeah, that's a new Lilith Fair.

So let's finish up on this thought. It's kind of a big thought, but talk a little bit about what we've been doing with your health this year. You know, I don't know. I've never really told you this, but when you first reached out to me, I haven't really, I didn't really follow your career, you know. I knew your name. And growing up in L.A., you know, it was like I kind of knew celebrities to be a little high maintenance. I'm high maintenance.

Don't worry. Your boxer at 4 in the morning, like, Mindy, my hormones. Yeah, but you know what? This is what I owe, I will continue to say about you. You are so kind. You are so grateful. It's never felt like work to answer your Voxer. Like you just come with such heart.

that it just is easy for me. But I didn't think I would go into this experience like that. Do you remember? Like when I met you, I was like, here, why you do some things and call me in a month? And you had this like look on your face like, are you fucking getting me? I'm like, no, no, no, you're not leaving me out here in the wilderness by myself. I know. And I remember looking at you and going, oh, shit.

Like, you know, there's a lot of work. Are you ready to do this? So how much work has it been? I've done a lot of work. I've done a lot of work. I don't even know where to begin with how much work I've done. I've been very committed, very, very committed. And, yeah, you're always like, I can tell you to do something.

You just go do something. You just like, all right, let me go do that. Let me try that. If anything, I have to be careful, like, because, and, you know, I think it's, I actually think it's a skill of how you got to where you are is that you have that override system of like, I see a goal and I'm going to go for it and then nothing's going to stop me. But your nervous system needs me to hold you back sometimes. Yeah, when we first went into detox and I had these little droppers that it was like, you know, when he's like, take it just take a couple drops.

And I thought more is always better. And so I took a whole dropper full, not just a couple drops, but a whole dropper full. And I was in a fetal position for like 24 hours as all of these medals are coming out of me. And yeah, that was a nightmare. So yes, you have to be careful with me. But I have a, hi, do you want to say hi? I definitely have, you know, healing is an interesting journey. and my I think I don't realize how far I've come and yes like my trainer today saying oh you have so much

more energy even though you're tired like you're still here and you're not like dragging so I think you know I try I try everything I'll try everything once pretty much yeah you will I can I can the test to that. Yes. And I've learned. Like I've learned a new language. I mean, ultimately, like, that's the biggest thing is I've learned, you know, I've learned a new language of hormones.

And, you know, one of the most incredible things is the neurotransmitter piece for me because I didn't realize that hormones and neurotransmitters were so intrinsically tied together. And, you know, suffering from anxiety and depression often on my whole life. it gave me some new context around what was actually happening in my body and that I wasn't insane. And that, you know, hormones really did play this key role in every bit of what I was going through. So, you know, we've come at hormones. We've come at neurotransmitters. We've come in amino acids.

Like, we've gone through hyperbaric with me. we've gone through red light. We've got, I mean, if you just name it. Yeah, I just say all the things. All the things. And I'm sure there's plenty more. But I do, you know, I, I, you know, each month is different. Each month is a roller coaster.

And there's so many variables. Like there's so many external factors, whether I'm traveling or, you know, if I've had high stress in my life, like, am I making enough frustration because I've had too much high stress. Like it's, it's, it's, every month is different. But ultimately, I see myself moving in the direction of health. And, and just like I said, you know, we keep saying this word awareness. I think awareness is key. And even if I'm, even if I feel like I'm kind of spiraling backwards sometimes just the awareness of what's going on and how I, the tools I now had to help myself out of that spiral is, you know, far from the place that I was when I first met you.

Amazing. Amazing. I'm like, again, I'm back here as like a proud mama. You know, I wish only I think maybe Eddie might know what you've been through, but I feel like I just am so proud and honored to watch you go through this experience because it hasn't been easy. And you're a fucking champ. Like, you have showed up every day for yourself to continue to learn and continue to grow. Like, you do anything I ask you to do.

Like, it's been one of the greatest honors of my life. as a doctor to watch you try on health and undo, you know, what what you were brought up in. It's just, it's incredible. It's really incredible to watch. So I love knowing your, I love knowing your thought process of when you first met me now because Oh, really? You just didn't know how much you were going to love me. You had no idea.

I had no idea. No. No. In fact, if anything, I was like, oh, God, okay, here we go. She's, you know, a big celebrity. like what okay and then like I've told you this like about two months in you just crawled right into my heart and I was like this is same though yeah I mean I I feel like you know you have been you have mothered me in so many ways around my health and in that I didn't you know I'd never had anyone teach me this stuff and so it was you know to find a woman who who's had that you mean like I said you taught me a whole different language you taught me the language you taught me the like I said you taught me the language you taught me the like language of my body, something I've been so disconnected from for so long, you know, to have this kind of mind, body, spirit, like synchronicity. Like, it feels, yeah, I mean, you've been the first

person to teach me on so many levels, how to take care of myself, like, in a real way where it's not, It's not superficial like I'm caring for myself from the inside out. Yeah. And I think I've done so much work for myself on a spiritual level and an emotional level. And I've never had that physical component tied in. And so with you, it was like this kind of, we talk about pieces of the puzzle all the time. It's like it was kind of that missing piece that fit in that allowed me to have that physical component. That allowed me to fully start healing because the body.

body has to be involved. Yeah. Yeah. And you and I've talked about this. Like, you know, if you're just working one piece, like whether it's a medication or maybe it's one biohack or one diet or, you know, what everybody wants to know for me is like, what's the best fast? What's the one thing? Yeah, what's the one thing. And I'm like, I'm not your one thing gal. Like I'm, what I truly believe, and this is I, from the day I met you, is that you are living in this body that is capable of miracles. And it's been really interesting to hear your journey. The other thing, by the way, I didn't know anything about Leanne Ryams. And then once we started working together, I was like, well, shoot, I can't really read about you because I wanted to hear from you. Like, I didn't

want anything to like sway me in really understanding you. And the, you know, here we sit nine months, however many months and thousands of hours of conversations later. And I still see this pure soul that is so capable of not just healing, of loving. And it's all the interferences, the physical, the emotional. This is why I wanted to have this conversation with you is like, I'm hoping that people will see that they are you. And maybe they didn't have your upbringing, but they had some other trauma. They had some other unusual situation. And yet they still, there's this pure loving human that deserves a chance at health.

And it's just been such a blessing for me to have a front row seat to that for you. And you work so hard at it. And you and I have talked about this before, like, how are we going to change? How are we going to go down and help the teenagers? and how are we going to really make an impact on women's health when we have such a misdirected outside in world. So, you know, if you could, if you had a room of 16-year-olds in front of you right now and you could give them some advice, what would you tell them?

Oh, my gosh. I mean, I think the first thing is educate yourself. Like get to know your body, educate yourself. Like, you know, no one's going. no one out there, if you're lucky, you'll have someone like you in their life. But I think the biggest piece is self-knowledge and self-awareness. Yeah, because you have to, it has to come from inside. Like it has to come from.

I think if we can, I know I was a very curious child and that got stuck down. and instead there was like this perfectionist that came into play and my curiosity and play kind of like got left out and I over the past several years the cure and especially I think my health journey has actually brought that play back in because I am so curious about you know you and I are constantly like well let's try this and let's see what this will do on nope that didn't work so let's try what that works so it's it becomes this you you start to um for me, I've started to really bring that curiosity back into my life. And I'm recognizing, like, how curious I really am.

Like, I want to learn and I'm, I'm always trying new things and seeing what works best. And I think keeping that curiosity with a front row scene in our life is so important. And so, and, you know, any 16-year-old girl, Like you're your own unique thing. Your body, your mind, your situation, your traumas, your joys. It's its own, your desires. It's all your own unique fingerprint. The way the lens you look through is its own unique view.

And your intuition about your health and your body is what should guide you, not anyone outside of you. And so I think you have to find people that you can, that trust. your own intuition and that will be in in collaboration with with you. It's not just a one-size it's all like you're saying the one thing you can do, the one pill you can take. It has nothing to do with that. It's getting to know the mental, physical, emotional, spiritual pieces of yourself and trusting it and then finding people that can collaborate with that. Yeah. Amen. Like I very well I keep saying like, one of these days, I'm like, we're going to turn you into like a health coach or a doctor.

And then I'm like, oh, wait, no, you have a really good profession already. I do. But it's funny because that is such a piece that I love this. Like, I love and I love, I've never thought of myself as a teacher, but I'm finding that I'm stepping into that role even more. As I share my own journey, it's just part of my teaching. My music is part of my teaching. Like, and it's not from a teaching of I know better. It's like I've experienced this and here's what I know.

So take it from there. Like, you know, like I want to share this. So like I go back to that thing of you don't feel alone in this journey. And I do have a lot of wisdom because I have lived a lot of life at 40. And I have so much more to learn. And there goes the curiosity of like, what else can I learn? So yeah, there is a. there's a piece of me like, you know, through my podcast and and through my music and just through

my journey now. I feel like I, I am becoming this kind of like health, emotional, spiritual helper. There we go. We're going to give you a name. We're going to give you a name. Yeah. My guide. Maybe like a Sherpa. Maybe like a Sherpa. You know, yeah, like, you know, you and I've talked about this idea of, mothering a culture. And I really, like I, when you and I had that conversation, I saw that so much for you. I even see it from my own self of like, no, that's the role I want to step into. And I see that as a role that you so deserve to step into because you set a culture in motion when you're 13. And now you're setting a different culture for women into motion at 40. And it's not just how you're showing

up, but it's the songs you're writing and the interviews, the changing of how you're talking in the interviews when people ask you questions. And you standing in that authentic version of yourself, I think you know, but I don't think you completely know the impact it makes on the world when you stand up and say, this is what I stand for. You literally change the culture of women. Yeah. No, I do, I'm aware of that. And I, I do. I'm aware of that. take that into consideration when I do what I do. And I know so many women grew up with me. And now we're all the same age. And so they, you know, I do have the opportunity with the platform that I have to shift and shift the world in the direction I want to see it go. You know, it's like we have to create the world that we want. And it's like, how do I want to show up in that world?

And I love that idea of mothering a culture. Like, you know, I've never had children of my own that have come through me, although I've helped raise too. boys, but I feel like I do have a very strong motherly instinct. And I feel like it's been utilized to birth projects and things in creation into this world. And now it's being utilized in this way of being able to share my truth, being able to hopefully guide people, you know, through different rites of passage at times, you know. I mean, look, we all, if you've grown up with me, we've all been through rights of passage together. Like, you know, We grew up on our teenagers together. We've gone through our 20s together.

And look, now here we are at this other, you know, threshold of, you know, parimenopause and menopause. And really these, I think these are very formidable years. Like as women, like it's like we almost can rebirth ourselves in a way. And I'm now helping people walk through this by just sharing my own journey, you know, as authentically. I mean, honestly, as I can. And, you know, there's, I, I'm an open book. Like, there's really not much at the table with me. You are truly an open book. Yeah, it's really impressive. Yeah, which is probably freeing for you just to, like, put it all out there and just be, if, I know that you're, you're, you love words and you and I have chatted about like, yeah, I always find, yeah,

I always find it really interesting when you and I talk about words because how many words are in a song? Oh, I don't know. Very few. We have to put a lot into a little. Into a little. And I get like 80, you know, Fast Like Girls, 83,000 words. So I get like, oh, if I didn't say it in that chapter, let me say it in the next chapter. I get like a lot more words than a song.

But if you had one word to describe you before 40, since I don't, we can't let, we can't let 40 go away from this conversation because that was a pivotal moment. If you had one word to describe yourself before 40, what would it be? I don't know. I know what the word is after 40. I haven't asked you that question yet. I know, but I know you're going there. I know what that is.

Maybe you need a couple words. You can have a couple words for before 40. Yeah. Guarded. Hmm. Yeah. I could see that. Yeah.

Okay. What is it after? What is it after 40? grounded. I got chills. Yeah. I feel very, someone said to me the other day,

you feel very centered. And I said, yeah, I get thrown off of it all the time, but I still know where my center is amidst that chaos. Yeah.

Where I think in before, well, before these last few years, I feel like I didn't have a sense of center. And, Maybe that's what it is even more so than grounded, I feel centered. I feel like somebody needs to write an article or you need to do a song title or something that's like from guarded to grounded.

Well, I like that. Like that needs to be like representing like your next phase because I can see that so clearly, just even in the short time I've worked with you. For sure, I see that shift happening. just, you know, it's pretty impressive to watch. So, yeah. Thank you. Okay, my last question, this is the one I ask everybody.

So I got to ask you too. Every year we do a different theme for the podcast. And this year I really wanted to do gratitude because I feel like we went into this year with so many of us complaining about COVID or politics or it was just complain, complain, and so I wanted our podcast to stand for gratitude. So do you have a gratitude? practice? If so, what is it? And what is one thing you're grateful for in 2022? I had a really solid gratitude practice for a while. I don't so much daily anymore,

but though I find myself, I find myself, I've trained my brain enough to be, to see the, the things I'm grateful for in my every day. I really, something I love doing is I talk to my food often. So when I get food, I'm like, thank you so much for nourishing me. I do that often. Yeah. And so, but I've really trained my brain. Like I said, enough to be like, oh, I'm grateful for everything for like, for this beautiful day. I went for a bike ride earlier. And I was like, oh, my God, the breeze feels so good. Like, I was just felt so good about how I felt to be outside. So I've come a long way. Yeah. Oh, my God. You have. Yes. But I, I think I'm great.

grateful. I'm grateful for so much, honestly. But the one thing that I have been incredibly grateful for recently that I used to feel so much shame around is my rebelliousness. And I used to feel so shameful for being rebellious because I think it's got me into a few sticky situations. But it's also, I've recognized it also saved my life many, many, many times. And so from that perspective, now to accept it. No, that is just an absolute beautiful piece of me and how I've created so many things from that space, how I've fought from that space for my life many times.

And I'm just really, I've come into deep gratitude for that, where I've, and that's in the last probably like six months, where I was very ashamed of it before. Yeah, yeah, amazing. And I think as women, you and I've talked about this, is that we need more rebellion. We need more authentic standing in our own strengths. So that's just amazing. Well, you know, I'll tell you what I told you back in the spring.

Thank you for just crawling in my heart. I had no idea that I was in for this ride with you. And it's really truly been an honor to be on the path with you. And I just, you amaze me and impress. me every day in your strength and your authenticity. And I just, yeah, this has been one of the greatest joys of my career. So, oh, thank you. Same. Same. Thank you for, thank you for being here for me through every morning and every night. Yeah. It's, it's all good. Again, it doesn't feel like work. It just feels like joy. And I, um, I, I just want the world. I'm so happy we had this

conversation because I want the world to see and interact with the beautiful, woman that I get to interact with and just what you're doing is incredible. So I'll ask you what I ask everybody else. How do people find you? Where do they go? People. Well, you can find me at Leanne rhymes.com. Simple as that. And just search my name on pretty much anything. You'll find me. Amazing. And your new album, by the way, I is out. And if you guys don't know, And I'm not going to, I mean, this is going to come from my uneducated musical point of view. It's not country. No.

You're right. I don't even know what it is. There's root-y element. I don't know what it is either. There's rootsy elements to it, but it's not country. There's a bit of tribal, primal, ethereal, something going on. It is amazing. and the words like that you, I told you when you, the, in awakening, when you're like,

surrendering is terrifying. I literally want to send you a message every day, every day and be like, no, it's fucking terrifying. Like, that is an understatement. You can't just put that in a song and walk away from the line. Like, it's horrifically terrified. It is. I might have downplayed that just a little bit. I think you, I think what I've learned in the music, listening.

to your current music is that you put words to what we're all feeling. And it really is, it's therapy for those of us that are listening to you. Yeah, I mean, I definitely tap into the collective experience, especially with this record. And yeah, we're all going through it. We're all on this human weird ride thing together for sure. Yeah. Awesome. Well, I love you. I love you. I love you too. Thank you so much for being on this journey of this podcast. with me. And I can't even wait to see where you are a year from now, 10 years from now. Like, I can't wait to see the 75-year-old version of you. She's going to be something special. She's going to be badass. She's going to be so healthy. Yeah, she's going to be, she's going to feel great.

She's going to be so badass. Thank you so much for joining me in today's episode. I love bringing thoughtful discussions about all things health to you. If you enjoyed it, we'd love to know. about it, so please leave us a review, share it with your friends, and let me know what your biggest takeaway is.