Live Like a Girl with Dr. Mindy Pelz - The Truth About Fats: Good vs. Bad Oils - With Jeff Nobbs

Episode Date: January 9, 2023

For full show notes, resources mentioned, and transcripts, go to: www.drmindypelz.com/ep155/. To enroll in Dr. Mindy's Fasting membership, go to: resetacademy.drmindypelz.com. This episode is centered around oils; we chat about which oils are good for us and which are harmful.  Jeff Nobbs is the co-founder and CEO of Zero Acre Farms, a food company replacing destructive vegetable oils with healthier, more sustainable oils and fats made by fermentation. With over 15 years of experience in the health and nutrition space, Jeff has co-founded several startups to offer better quality ingredients and nutrition-forward food to people and communities, including the fast-casual restaurant chain Kitava. In 2020, after seeing a drastic decrease in accessibility to fresh food, Jeff co-founded HelpKitchen to connect food-insecure individuals with partner restaurants for a free meal via SMS. Jeff also served as the Chief Operating Officer for Perfect Keto and General Manager of Rakuten, which acquired his first company Extrabux.  Jeff writes about nutrition and sustainability at jeffnobbs.com and @jeffnobbs.  Please see our medical disclaimer.

So the more you can load up your fat cells, you know, everyone has stores body fat, even the thinnest of us. If you can load up those fat cells with healthy fats, then your body may just be a little bit more ready to use that stored body fat as energy. Hey, Dr. Mindy here. And welcome to season four of the Resetter podcast. Have I got a lineup for you this season? Lots of deep thinkers, a lot of brilliant minds, all with one focus to move the needle for you. forward on your mental and physical health. So please know that this podcast is all about empowering you to believe in yourself again. And I want you believing in your body. I want you believing in your mind.

I want you believing in your spirit. If you have a passion for learning, if you're looking to be in control of your health and take your power back, this is the podcast for you. Enjoy. On this episode of The Resetter podcast, I bring you Jeff Knobbs, the founder of Zero Acre Farms. Now, there is a lot in this discussion, and it's all centered around oils, which oils are good for us, which oils are bad for us. This is a very, very complicated topic, and I think in the, we're now in our fourth season. of the Resetter podcast, I may have only brought you one full episode on oils. So I felt like this

was a discussion that I wanted to have with you all, because if there was one nutritional change, I would encourage all of you to make, it would be to make sure you're eating good oils, not bad oils. Bad oils are so, have such a negative impact on our health, and they are everywhere. They are hard to navigate avoiding. So what I did with Jeff in this conversation is I tried to break down for you all what we need to look for in oils. What are good oils? What are bad oils? And then how do we navigate that in a restaurant situation? You'll hear a lot of the strategies that I use in restaurants to be able to pick the right oil. We also talk about the best oils to cook with. We talk about the best containers for oils to be in. And more importantly, we talk about this real interesting

part of oils that are the omega-6 inflammatory piece of a part of oils called linoleic acid. Now, if that sounds really complicated, hang with me here because omega-6 can be good or omega-6 oils can be bad. And when you're looking at the proper fatty acid balance, you will hear me talk a lot about that we need to bring omega three, six, and nine into balance in order for our cells to be able to pull hormones into them, to be able to pull nutrients in, and for all the inner workings of the cells, including the mitochondria, to function normally. It is that balance. And when we are eating oils like canola oils and cotton seed oils, you'll hear us talk a lot about seed oils in this episode, we throw that balance off. And that that is where weight loss resistance

starts. The root of all poor metabolic health is in that omega-369 balance. And what Jeff and his company has done is they've created a cultured oil that really highlights omega-9 oils and helps to bring that balance back. So hang with me through. this conversation because it's important that we have to go into the chemistry a bit. And Jeff does an amazing job of that. He talks about linoleic acid and where we are finding that in the oil, oils that we interact with every single day. And then at the back half of the conversation, we go into, you know, how do you navigate a restaurant? What do you do when you're cooking? What oil is the best to cook with? And how we can use a new version of oils that he

is created, which is called cultured oil, how we can use that to speed up weight loss, how we can use it to improve brain health. It's mind-blowing. There's so much to discuss. And I want to make sure you get all the way through the end because as all of, you know, all my interviews, I want to make sure I'm not just giving you information, but that I'm helping you apply it in your life. And Jeff did an incredible job. So I think you're going to love this discussion. It is one we have not had yet. So enjoy Jeff Knobbs from Zero Acres Farms. And as always, please leave a review, share this out into the world. We really, it's interviews like this that can be really life-saving.

So I am so excited to bring it to you. For starters, thank you, Jeff, for taking the time and being here. And welcome to the Resetter podcast. What you don't see behind me is a lot of very enthusiastic people that are trying to get well. And in this crazy toxic world, we're looking. living in, and we have not had a discussion on seed oils yet. So I just want to say welcome and thank you for being here to have this discussion with me. Thanks and happy to be here. Definitely want to shine more of a spotlight on how problematic seed oils can be because they're in everything.

So I appreciate you having this conversation with me. Yeah, of course. You know, I used to think for the longest time that the enemy of the human body was refined carbohydrates. And I I don't, I still think that's really problematic, but I've since put seed oils and inflammatory oils as the number one food change people need to make. So can we start off this conversation with why the oils I'm getting at my restaurant, the oils I'm getting in my market, in the market, like why do oils matter and how do we navigate which oils are good and which oils are bad? Okay, great place to start. and we can go down a lot of rabbit holes here. And I agree, I think, you know, that would be the number one piece of advice I'd give from a dietary standpoint as well as step number one, get rid of the seed oils.

So first of all, when we're talking about seed oils, you know, what does that mean? Canola or rapeseed oil, soybean oil, corn oil, sunflower oil, sunflower oil, cotton seed oil. These are the typical seed oils that you'll see on the back of packaged foods and unfortunately in most restaurant meals. and when looking at whether these are good or bad for us, there are a lot of different angles to attack that question from. One is looking at what has changed in our diet since we went from being mostly healthy to mostly unhealthy, unfortunately. You know, today the majority of Americans have a chronic disease. And the biggest single change in our diets in the last hundred years during that time from unhealthy to or rather from healthy to unhealthy has been the introduction and continued growth of seed oils in our diets. And in a nutshell, what makes seed oils so problematic is that they're very high in a type of fatty acid called linoleic acid.

Linolaic acid is a type of omega-6 fat. And it's found in all foods naturally, but in very small amounts, you know, one, two, three percent of calories as linoleic acid. But in seed oils, they're as high as 50, 60, 75 percent of calories as linoleic acid. So, you know, exponentially orders of magnitude higher than, amounts than we would have naturally in our diet. And so what happens when we consume large amounts of linoleic acid? That's where a lot of data is coming out just in the last decade, showing a lot of bad things happen from weight gain and ultimately obesity to heart disease,

cancer, insulin resistance, even dementia, Alzheimer's. It seems to be a central cause in a lot of disease states. And so, you know, one way to look at it, what's changed. Another way to look at it is what do the observational studies say? You know, people who tend to eat more seed oils, you know, what are their health outcomes? You know, I'll be the first to say observational studies are not what we should be basing our nutrition science on or dietary guidelines. But it's kind of, you know, step one. And, you know, there are a couple ways to look at this.

One is a population level. And when you look at what happens when certain populations introduce seed oils to their diets, inevitably, you know, 100% of the time, time, they get diseases of Western civilization. They get sick and fat. Similarly, there's no, there's no nation out there, no tribe, no community, no population that has introduced seed oils and not gotten sick. And there's no population that's sick that hasn't introduced seed oils. And then kind of, you know, the next step would be randomized controlled trials. And you typically don't do that until you have a hypothesis based on observational studies. And the randomized controlled trials show the same thing.

More seed oils, more linoleic acid, more heart disease, more cancer, and more weight gain. Those are sort of the ones that most people care about. And in a nutshell, it's because of that linoleic acid content and that linoleic acid then turning into other even more problematic compounds once they're oxidized, either in the frying pan before we eat them, which going back to your original question and why should we worry about this when we're eating out at restaurants, it's because we're oxidized. those unstable high linoleic seed oils in the frying pan, in the deep friar, even in the bottle, if they're sitting on a shelf before we even eat them. But even eating them fresh, they oxidize

in our bodies. So what's actually going on mechanistically is that oxidation in even more problematic compounds? You know what? You have me thinking, is there a culture that doesn't have seed oils now? And do we see their health outcomes? I feel like our fast food, our horrible ingredients have like infiltrated the world. Do we have any examples of the health outcomes of cultures that do not use seed oils? Yeah, you have to go to remote areas of the world and hunter-gatherer populations because that's, those are literally the only populations who don't have seed oils in their diet. You know, developed countries and maybe even especially developing countries are eating

more and more seed oils and represent a significant portion of our calories, 20% in the U.S. lower in some countries higher and others. So yeah, you have to go to, for example, the Catavans of Papua New Guinea. I have a restaurant. We actually named our restaurant after the Catavans because we look up to their health outcomes. Several researchers have gone there and everyone's fit. They couldn't even find a pimple, extremely low rates of cancer or heart disease. And they eat a diet of basically fish, occasional pork, you know, vegetables, a lot of tubers like sweet potatoes,

coconut milk, you know, they're not deep frying in soybean oil, that's for sure. And there are other populations like that, for example, in Africa, the Hadsah. There's a population in South America as well as the Hadesa where, you know, there are, there's documentation of everyone being fit and thin and, you know, healthy outside of, you know, maybe not being able to find enough calories because of their hunting zones being encroached on, et cetera. But there tend to be a few people who are overweight. And folks who have gone there and sort of inquired about why in Africa, the reason was, oh, that's the person who goes into the village and eats the flour and vegetable oils. And in the case of a tribe in South America, the members of the tribe who had access to boats

were more overweight. And what is it about a boat that makes people fat? It was because they'd, They'd boat into the villages and they'd buy primarily based on, you know, the documentation basically says refined flowers and vegetable oils. So even these populations that historically, you know, not had any seed oils in the last hundred years, you know, that's starting to change, unfortunately. They're having to, yeah, they're having to, that's, that's so sad. What about the Mediterranean diet? We always hear about how powerful the Mediterranean diet is because they bring in all the good omega-3s and the all-of-eaterranean diet. oil. Is it too hard, like, to look at a country like, I'm just going to pull grease, you know,

that has like lives the Mediterranean diet. We can't say olive oil is the hero of the day anymore because really it's getting the bad seed oils out and then olive oil could shine. Is that, like, where does olive oil fit into that? And where does the Mediterranean diet fit into that? Yeah, the Mediterranean diet is, was excellent marketing in the 1990s. It's actually pretty incredible how um i've heard this recently yep yep um so you know what i'm talking about you know like a somewhat obscure region of the world you know there are lots of regions of the world but the metatraining in particular is one that researchers focused on um and you know highlighted and it became a sensation in the u.s there was a lot of marketing to make olive oil a popular uh vegetable oil

um in in the u.s and and it worked really really well um you know it wasn't it was it was it was was not canola or corn. It wasn't Wesson or mazola. It was kind of new and exciting. You know, the chefs were using it. Extra virgin olive oil had like a peppery, bitter, grassy taste that was new and exciting and different. But, you know, when you look at the Mediterranean region, what actually makes it healthy, there are so many different things that are going on there compared to Americans, especially, you know, 50 years ago. It's impossible to say it's any one thing. You know, they tend to fast more, for example. They tend to walk up and downhills, in Greece in particular, it's very hilly.

So there's a lot of walking. There's a lot of community. There is more fish consumption. So they're getting more omega-3s. And omega-3s compete biologically with enzymatic pathways in our bodies with omega-6 fats like linoleic acid. So they can be protective against the harm of omega-6 fats. And I think the olive oil or even animal fats that they,

in the past when it kind of was coming on, it was the scene intended to consume in place of, you know, corn oil and canola oil, they were doing their health a huge favor. You know, olive oil is, I'd call it a moderate linoleic acid oil. It's way better than soybean

oil or corn oil or safflower oil. But it's, you know, it's 9 to 20 something percent in linoleic acid, not 50 to 75. But also not, you know, one or two or three or four, in most whole foods.

And it's full of polyphenols and, you know, other compounds that appear to potentially be beneficial. So, yeah, olive oil, you know, 10 days out of 10, I'd rather have olive oil than any of these other seed oils. Yeah. But it's not, what I hear is olive oil isn't the hero of the day, that there's more to the oil discussion. And when you bring up the linoleic acid, you know, where my brain goes is the fact that

the outside of every cell is a bi-lipid fatty-mank. membrane. And so it's going to either accept a good fat and it'll nourish the cell or it's going to clog that cell up so that now all the hormones, vitamin D, all the nutrients can't get in. Is that a simple way we can look at this with Linolaic? It creates congestion and inflammation in the cell. And so every time we eat it, we're not just affecting inflammation on a systemic level, but we're affecting hormones that can get in, nutrients that get in. Talk about the damage on a cellular level that happens with linoleic acid. So you're exactly right.

We literally are what we eat. And every cell in our body is made of lipids, like you said, lipids are oils or fats. And we don't get those things from the air. We get them from our diet. That's the only place we get them from. So what our cells are made of, you know, the lipid bilayer and, And, you know, lipids appear in our body more than just in cell walls.

But in particular, that lipid bilayer is from what we eat. And so when we are eating oils high in linoleic acid, from an evolutionary standpoint, our body has never had to deal with a diet of 10% plus linoleic acid in particular. All of ourselves are then made of that. And that stays in our body for years, unfortunately. I think the half-life is something like two and a half years. even if you quit seed oils cold turkey. Okay, I don't want to miss this point because this is something that my doctor group,

we've been talking a lot about, is that these oils stay in your system for over two years. So let me make sure I understand this, right? If I go, like, I'll just be transparent. One of my favorite foods on the planet are sweet potato fries. And so if I go out and eat sweet potato fries and they're putting it in a vegetable oil that is high in this linoleic acid, that's not exiting my body for two years, one round of French fries? Yeah, yeah, unfortunately. And, you know, that's not the case with something like sugar or flour, for example. You know, meat it.

It maybe gives you an insulin spike. But, you know, your liver detoxifies that sugar and it's out of your system in a matter of hours or days. But yeah, linoleic acid, the fatty acid found in seed oils, it stays in there for a long time. And it's different depending on which cell in your body we're talking about. So whether it's your brain cells or, you know, on the other end of the spectrum, cartilage cells. And in cartilage cells, it can be even longer than that, you know, measured in decades. And in skin cells, for example, it can be shorter than that, I think more like months because those recycle a lot. quicker. But yeah, it can stand, it can stand yourselves for years. And because it's such an

unstable fat, you know, it oxidizes quite easily because of the number of double bonds, which is why it's called polyunsaturated, multiple double bonds versus mono unsaturated, which is one double bond or saturated, which is no double bonds. The more double bonds, the more easily oxidizes, the more easily oxidizes, the more it breaks down into harmful compounds, literally toxins, you know, toxicologists defined toxins, not like in, you know, the modern form of toxin, everything's a toxin, but actually something that is acutely toxic and high enough doses and chronically toxic and low doses. And so all throughout our bodies of our cells are made of these lipids that are, you know, the oxidized quite easily. And then we create, it's like

having firecrackers all throughout our body. And that seems to be the start of a lot of disease states. So just so we catch people up on certain terminology, can you explain what oxidized means or oxidation so that we can understand what that means to us in our health? Yeah, good point. So oxidation, you know, most people, it's one of those terms maybe people have heard of like free radicals, but what it actually is. You know, you see you see an iron gate rusting. That's a form of oxidation. It's when a molecule loses an electron, and that electron then becomes a free radical. And so, you know, that's a term most of you have heard free radicals as a result of oxidation, which is losing an electron. And a lot of people have also heard of antioxidants.

Antioxidants are molecules that bind with that free radical and basically deactivate it. So it's no longer causing oxidative. stress. When we have more free radicals than antioxidants to consume them, we are increasing our levels of oxidative stress. And oxidative stress seems to, you know, is at the root of inflammation and a number of diseases aging. It's part of the reason cigarettes smoking is so bad. Radiation can be so problematic and white seed oils can be so problematic as well. So from a simplistic standpoint, we can can look at these oils as rusting the inside of our of our body, which is going to accelerate aging. Is that it? Would that be accurate? Yep. And you can look at, you know, you can look at

livers of healthy patients and you can look at livers of, you know, alcoholics who consumed a lot of fried food. And yeah, one looks like a new iron gate and one looks like an old rusty iron gate. interestingly in certain lab studies, they're actually unable to induce certain liver diseases without adding seed oils to the diet. Even with alcohol alone, they're not able to induce alcoholic fatty liver disease. So seed oils do seem to be a lead domino in a lot of these cases. And so the other part of my brain goes because I do love sweet potato fries. And I do make them at home. Yeah, and I do make them at home and I've made them with your oil. So we can chat about that. But if it oxidizes, let's say I go out to dinner and I'm like, okay, having my sweet potato fries. If I know that oxidation is going to happen from eating that food, could I just increase my antioxidants around that meal to help with the free radicals that are being spun off from the linoleic acid? It helps to some extent, but it doesn't completely prevent the problem from happening.

And it would only help prevent oxidation in the short term. You know, your body metabolizes those antioxidants pretty quickly. So most seed oils in their unrefined form, you know, it's not like they make extra virgin soybean oil. But if they did, that would come with some tachycopherols, some natural antioxidants that would help prevent some of that oxidation. but you're still left with a lot of linoleic acid that, again, is staying in your cells for years long after the antioxidants have already gone through your system. So you can't hurt, that's for sure. But this has been researched.

Your research has asked the same question, and it's the reason why, like, megadosing vitamin E every day doesn't seem to have any sort of positive impact on our health. You know, if only, that would be great, but it doesn't seem to be. be the case. Yeah, I feel like somebody needs to come up with a supplement or something that helps counteract this because it's such a problem when you're eating out. And I can tell you something we've done in my group of doctors, when we go out to eat, we always ask what oils they're cooking with. And many times to get their attention, we just say we're allergic to canola oil. Can you tell us what you're cooking with? Because restaurants tend to understand food

allergies, but they don't tend to look at oils as being something that would contribute to poor health. So can you talk about what oils are the worst? And I specifically want to talk about canola oil because I don't know if you saw recently, there was some news that came out that was pro-canola oil saying that we got it all wrong. So talk about which oils we need to avoid which are the worst and what do we need to know about canola oil? we got it all wrong. Yeah, it's like we got it all wrong and then we thought we got it wrong and we got it all wrong again. You know, I've lost track of where we stand now or where it's like mainstream stands on us. It's so confusing to the lay person who's just trying to stay healthy.

Like this, this is what like makes me irate. Like I just want to go into a restaurant and not have cellular inflammation have happened to me. I want to be able to navigate a menu. I can do that with gluten-free. I can do that with no, like, avoiding sugars. I can do that with most everything, but it's really hard to do with oils. So it's very frustrating. Well, we're working on that. And I share, I share in that frustration. And, you know, it's a big part of why I spend most of my waking hours thinking about this problem, because we have started to see movement and, you know, gluten-free. You know, it's, you can avoid desserts and you're probably not getting a huge, you know, a huge, you know, a huge sugar spike. You can ask the weight staff, you know,

what can I eat that doesn't have sugar in it? But you still get a lot of eyebrow raises when you say something like, can you make sure it's a seed oil-free meal? And even when they say it's olive oil, you know, what I've found is most of the time it's an olive oil blend that's 80 or 90% canola oil, our favorite. So yeah, it's really hard to avoid. And, you know, my dream and our dream is your acre is that even if you don't listen to health podcasts, you know, and you're not reading up on nutrition that you can just go to. to a restaurant and eat your regular potato fries or sweet potato fries. And it's, yeah, it's not going to be doing so much harm. So hopefully we'll get there someday. I don't know how long it will

take, but that's definitely, that's definitely my dream. I'm cheering you on. I'm cheering you on, by the way. Go do that, Jeff. I'm working over here on just getting the world fasting. You work on getting the, getting the right oils into my restaurants. It's a, it's a multi-prong effort. I think we need to attack these problems from all angles, from just consumer education to, you know, consumer kind of activation and enabling people to do this easier. And regulatory, you know, bottoms up and top down. You know, we need to do as much as we can. But yeah, with canola, so canola is a weird one. There are oils like soybean oil, safflower, sunflower, sunflower, corn oil, cotton seed oil, where it's really hard to argue for any benefit.

from those oils, you know, they're 50 to 75% omega-6 linoleic acid with very small amounts if, if, um, and for some zero amounts of omega-3, you know, which is what's typically found in, like fish, for example, salmon, cold water fish, um, uh, like the good cousin of omega-6. But with, with canola oil, it's both lower in omega-6 linoleic acid than those other seed oils. and fairly high in omega-3 alpha-linolenic acid. It's the less bio-available form, that omega-3 plant form, than, like, DHA and EPA found in fish. And it needs to be converted to those more bio-available forms like EPA, DHA,

EPA in particular first before it can do any good in our body. So it's a precursor to the good stuff. And studies show that only 8 to 10% of ALA, alpha-Lenolentic acid, which is the omega-3 from canola only about eight to ten percent is actually converted into the bioavailable form of epa um so you know the the percentage of omega-3 is in canola oil which are something like five to ten percent you know like not not bad um take that with the grain of salt because divide that by ten and that's how much you're you're at you're actually getting if you want to compare it to like a fish oil or something or a piece of salmon or sardines um and then and then on the

the omega-6 side, canola oil is 21% omega-6, something like that. So significantly less than something like a soybean oil, but significantly more than something like coconut oil or, you know, spinach or beef or something like that. That's like 2%. So not as bad, in my opinion, as something like a soybean oil, but not going to be doing you any favors. And if you're relying on canola oil as your source of omega-3 fats, you're probably in trouble. And especially if you cook with canola oil, which is often how it's used, you know, you don't want omega-3s in there either because they're unprotected in this refined oil. And they're oxidizing into their own problematic compounds, you know, just like the omega-6 fats are.

So is the recent re-look at canola oil? are we are we I haven't fully immersed myself in all the new studies or the new trend on canola oil but what I just heard you say is that if they say it's pro omega three this is why we love canola oil what I hear you saying is the version of omega three is in canola oil is not bioavailable and if they say well canola oil isn't bad because the omega six content is lower than the other oils, what I hear you saying is that still those omega-6 are bad inflammatory omega-6 versions. Would that be accurate? Yep, I think that's a good summary. It's still, on that last point, it still has about 10 times too much omega-6. But hey, at least it's not 30 times too much.

Right, right. Do we have examples of good omega-6 oils? Because the other interesting thing that I've discovered in my research is that it's really the balance of omega-3, 6, and 9 that is the most perfect scenario for a human cell. So it's not like omega-6 oil is the enemy. It's that the type of omega-6 that we are eating is really bad. Do we have any examples of good omega-6s? Yeah. So omega-6 is, there are a lot of categories of fats of lipids. And so, you know, parent category, I guess, of polyunsaturated fat. And then within polyunsaturated fat, you have omega-3s and omega-6s. Again, omega-3 and fish, omega-6s, typically in seeds and nuts, but in all foods in very small amounts. And then within omega-6s, you have different types like linoleic acid, which, you know,

we've talked about, as well as arachidonic acid. And arachidonic acid is a type of omega-6 that does not appear to be harmful and is not, you know, we're not consuming and evolutionarily unprecedented amounts. There's no food we eat where it's like, well, we used to have 2% of our diet as, you know, arachidonic acid. And now it's 70%. So yeah, arachidonic acid also stays so linoleic acid can be converted to arachidonic acid in our bodies. But no matter how much linoleic acid we eat, it seems that the amount of arachidonic acid in our body stays pretty stable. So, arachidonic acid, while an omega-6 fat doesn't appear to be all that problematic. And it's really the winolaic acid as when consumed in excess, you know, it's not an inherently

evil fat or something like that. But when we consume it in excess, that's what leads to issues. And it helps to offset that excess linoleic acid consumption if, you know, maybe if it's sweet potato fries at a restaurant every night or twice a day or something like that. It helps to offset that with sardine, salmon, you know, omega-3s from vegan algae, you know, if you don't eat seafood. That can be helpful. But I think there is a limit. For example, if you're eating fried food at every meal, you know, you can't just say it's okay. I'm going to have salmon, so it'll be okay. One, you'd have to have salmon at every meal as well, which is just not realistic. But also, you would just then be eating so much polyunsaturated fat, you know, even if you're helping

the cause with some omega-3s, just the absolute volume of linoleic acid you're consuming. You know, you can't offset all of it. It's still in yourselves. You know, you would then be reducing your ability to utilize those omega-3 fats with all that linoleic acid. So it's really about minimizing linoleic acid so that you're, you know, you can eat salmon a couple times a week and not have to eat it at every meal. Yeah. I actually have a theory that I've heard a lot of experts talk about this balance of omega 3, 6, and 9.

And, you know, fish oils have taken over the world. Everybody wants to make a dose on fish oil to lower inflammation down. And I think if you're eating the standard American or the Western diet, because we have a worldwide audience here, that if you're eating a diet high in these linoleic acids, when you take an omega-3 fish oil, it will make you feel better because you are counterbalancing the inflammation that's happening from the omega-6. You're just bringing that 369 back into balance. But those of us that are eating the right oils, we're making sure that we're staying in the healthy

oil lane. If we come in an mega dose with omega-3, we actually can create inflammation because we've thrown that omega-369 balance off. And I don't believe that the goal of health is that we need to make a dose supplements all the time. I feel like the foundation of health needs to start with good nutrition. So if I move into the lane of, hey, I'm going to dedicate my health habits to minimizing these toxic omega-6s, then do you feel like maybe we wouldn't need to be? to focus on omega-3s as much because just bringing down that inflammatory omega-6 will help bring that whole balance back. I completely agree. I think in the context of most people's diets,

it's really important to get more omega-3s. You know, you probably can't get enough. There's a whole separate issue of like oxidized fish oil and sitting in capsules for years and, you know, sometimes doing more harm than good. But yeah, if you know, if you're eating a ton of fried food, get more omega-3s, if you are in the healthy oil lane, as you say, then just the omega-3s from, I don't know, the grass-fed beef you eat or the pastured eggs that you eat, that's probably enough. You know, the occasional salmon or something wouldn't be an issue. That would be great. But, but, yeah, you know, you don't need to stress about the daily omega-3 supplementation

and making sure you eat salmon, you know, five times a week and all that if you're cutting out the seed oils. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, this is like one of the, I remember I was in Costco one day. And I saw this guy, he had like 10 bottles of omega-3 fish oils. And it, like, it must have been a sale or something. But like my brain was like, yeah, if he's eating the wrong oils, those bottles are going to be great for him.

But or possibly, I don't know what the quality of those supplements were. But then my brain was like, but if he's got a, he's not eating the bad oils, that actually, those 10 bottles are going to inflame his system. And I think this is one of the big myths of the omega-3 movement. I mean, we got obsessed with omega-3 oils. But when we just come back to how do we do this with proper diet, then we don't need to spend all this money on all these other omega-3 supplements. We can do it through diet. So talk a little bit about what are the good oils?

What do we? And specifically zero-acre, you guys sent me a bottle, and I got to tell you, it is so. smooth. Like it has a smooth taste. It cooks really well. And I just, it, I'm, it's really exciting. But what isn't in that is what I, I still am trying to understand. And why did you put those oils together? Yeah, absolutely. And just to your first point, you know, I totally agree. And sometimes I think about health, most of the focus on health is like, what's the next super food we can eat or something so that I can still have my donuts. But so much of a healthy diet is the stuff we

take out. And, you know, it's like there are just a few. It's not like there's a list of a thousand things. It's like ditch the seed oils, refined sugars and flowers and you're like 80% plus the way there. And then, yeah, some, you know, some intermittent fasting and being smart about hormesis and getting sunlight and then just eating nutrient dense foods, you know, being biased toward nutrient dense foods. And you're probably like 98% of the way there. So totally agree on that point. And yeah, so what are the good oils? This was something I set out to answer many years ago, probably a decade ago, and pretty quickly realized, you know, okay, clearly there are some bad oils, you know, the seed oils that we've talked

about. And the other variable I introduced to this question is, you know, what are the oils that are good for me and that are good for the planet? And, you know, more people have started to care about the environmental impact of the foods that they eat, you know, not just climate change, but impact on deforestation and water use and thinking about, I don't know, if you're in California, how many almonds you eat or something like that. It's starting to be more top of mind. And clearly the oils from fruits, the vegetable oils from fruit. So broadly, vegetable oils are seed oils, which we talked about, and then oils from fruits like avocado, olive, coconut, palm. Those are unquestionably better from a health standpoint. They have far lower amounts of omega-6, coconut oil in particular, like one or two

percent and then avocado oil, olive oil, very variable. It depends on where they were grown, when they were grown, sometimes as low as single digit, you know, nine, ten, 11, 12 percent. Sometimes as high as 21 percent, 27 percent for some varietals of olive oil. Some have more than canola oil, unfortunately. But again, on average, better than seed oils. And so when I was kind of first starting this journey of trying to get seed oils out of the food system, you know, I looked at evangelizing avocado oil, olive oil. trying to raise the levels of awareness of these oils. There are a few issues.

One, it's really hard to get past the adulteration piece because they're more premium oils. And because when they're purchased by consumers, it's mainly just for being olive oil or avocado, not a specific brand to stand behind it. There are a lot of issues with rancidity and adulteration. And there's just not enough land to produce olive and avocado oil. They only grow in certain regions of the world. It's not like we have all this crop land available to grow them. And they require a huge amount of water in particular.

And so there have been some recent droughts in Spain that has essentially destroyed their olive oil production. And they're not sure what they're going to do. And prices are going to increase. So they have a really big environmental footprint. So for those reasons, I was like, okay, that's probably not what's going to win the day. You know, getting soybean out of our food system, 420 billion pounds a year of, vegetable oils like soy and and and for for cooking uh you know they're still not the most stable oils they're they're more stable than something like a soybean oil or canola oil um you know

they like all of them in particular can have a low smoke point um so i wish those could be the answers i mean just certainly make my life a lot easier um but a number of years ago realized that they weren't and so started a company called zero acre farms and uh we're making a cultured oil and this cultured oil that that that we're now selling is about 2% linoleic acid so similar to something like a you know beef tallow or coconut oil and then high levels of the omega nine fats that you mentioned mono and saturated fats so even more than olive or avocado oil high smoke point extremely low environmental footprint and the way that this oil is made is by fermentation and so what

that means is a microbial culture not one that would go on to make a yogurt like we were talking about before the show or wine or beer or sauerkraut. But a microbial culture, which is a bunch of single cell organisms, microorganisms, that literally makes oil. They're fed sugar and that sugar currently comes from sugar cane. And just like humans, when we eat a bunch of sugar, you know, we put on a bunch of fat. On a microbial level, each cell in this culture consume sugar and stores their energy as oil. And then that culture or these cells are pressed like pressing oil from olives. And what comes out the other end is cultured oil. And these microbes are incredible. You know, they naturally make oil. They're

called oleogenous organisms in the wild. And that's where they, you know, that's where they came from. And the oil they produce, because of how it's produced, is an extremely low environmental footprint. And then, you know, what it actually is is high levels of the good fats and low levels of bad fats. So I had no idea that's how that was what cultured oil was. I don't know how you figured that technology out, but impressive. So my thought is that then if it is fermented and microbes, it was a byproduct of the oils were a byproduct of these microbes, then it has to be insanely good for your gut bacteria. Is that it, could it heal the gut, this type of oil?

The microbes are actually inactivated when they're pressed. So it's not, it's no longer a live culture when consumed, you know, when put in the bottle. It's the oil that's pressed from that live culture. So the benefits to the gut would be that, you know, it's a healthy fat profile. But it's not, it's not, you know, it's not adding microbial diversity, for example. Okay. So, and then talk a little bit about the, I really want to highlight, you said omega-9s. it's high in omega-9.

You know, it's interesting because I feel like omega-9 doesn't get much discussion. What are the benefits of omega-9? This is what's hard about the world of lipids. There's so much nomenclature. You know, for this one type of fat, it can be called mono-unsaturated fat. It can be called omega-9 fats. It can be called oleic acid, which is confusing because that sounds just like linoleic acid, and one's really good and one's really bad when consumed in excess.

So, you know, at the risk of throwing a bunch of words around that no one's going to remember, omega-9 is primarily oleic acid, which is a type of mono-unsaturated fat. And, you know, whether you're vegan or carnivore, monosaturated fats are typically seen as very healthy. Every other type of fat is basically super controversial. Yeah. But, yeah, olive oil is extremely high. 70-ish percent mono-unsaturated fat, upwards of 81%. Beef tallow is almost half mono-unsaturated fat, same with lard.

So even animal fats are quite high in mono-unsaturated fat. It's the majority of fat in many things except seed oils. And so that's the fat that cultured oil is quite high in. What's also nice about mono-insaturated fat is that it's liquid. So it's liquid at room temperature. It's liquid in the fridge. you know, oils that are high in mono-unsaturated fat, typically you can make a salad dressing, it stays liquid in the fridge. You can just, you know, you can spray it. So it's a bit easier to

work with than something like, you know, lard or butter. Right. And so the cultured oil, the zero acres, is that is high in omega-9s, is what I hear you saying. Yep, between 90-95% of mono-unsaturated fats, this type of omega-9 fat. And then, 4% or less saturated fats and then 3% or less linoleic acid, this omega-6 fat. Do we have any other oil out there that has that same fatty acid configuration? The closest would be something like an avocado or olive. Okay. But it doesn't have quite as much monoensaturated fat and has more omega-6 linoleic acid.

And part of the reason, you know, it's important to have. even less. We wanted to put numbers to this. And so we had a third-party run an experiment of heating a bunch of different types of oils and then measuring those toxins that are generated as a result of oxidation. Aldehydes in particular is, you know, just to throw another term out there. Aldehydes are a... It's a chemistry class we're in right now. I wish I had a whiteboard. Yeah. Aldehydes, like form aldehyde is probably one people have heard of.

They're found in cigarettes. They're, you know, objectively known as toxins in many cases. And so we measured aldehydes produced from polyunsaturated fats in these different oils. And you can clearly see the oils that have less linoleic acid are producing fewer of these aldehydes. And those aldehydes been tied to a number of health issues. By far the worst are, I think it was corn oil. soybean oil, sunflower oil, and rapeseed oil or canola, far, far more albohid generation, even after 10, 20, 30 minutes. And the other end of the spectrum, which we're pleased to see,

was cultured oil producing very few and actually producing zero after 10 minutes. And in the middle where olive and avocado oil is, as we'd expect. So that's why it's important to minimize linoleic acid. One, because, you know, you're already getting so much when you go out and have the sweet potato fries, not to keep picking on you. No, no, I'm calling myself out on my biggest weakness. It's like my kryptonite. Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, I don't blame you, especially with little ketchup.

It's delicious. Yeah. But so it's important to minimize it because, you know, we're not all, like, we're not perfect. We're human beings. We want to go out and have fun and have chips and salsa and all that. And so when we can control it, we should absolutely minimize the amount of omega-6 linoleic acid.

And then also by doing so when you actually heat it, whether, you know, you're scrambling eggs or you're doing a stir fry or eventually, you know, we hope to be in restaurants when you're eating out fried food at a restaurant, you're minimizing those toxins that are generated from heating the oil. And so talk a little bit about the cooking of the oil because I think that's also really important. And I do want to point out to the people listening that if this is confusing, it is confusing. And this is what we're trying to make simple. So So what I want to do is when we think about moving out to restaurants, we have one strategy. When we look at what we want to bring into our house, that's oils that we're not heating up.

We have another strategies. And then there's a different strategy for oils when we actually cook with them. So can you talk about how heating an oil up changes the configuration of it and can turn a good oil into a bad oil? Yeah. Yeah. And to your point on it being complicated, you know, that's why I think. the saturated fat will clog your arteries idea stuck for so long is because it's so simple. You know, oh, yeah, I pour bacon grease down a cold pipe and it's going to solidify.

And that's what's happening in my arteries. And, you know, when you look at plaque in arteries, it looks like saturated fat. So it was, it was too simple, but it was, it was too compelling not to, you know, not to stick for many, many decades. and everything we've talked about, it's pretty deep in the chemistry and in the weeds. But sometimes, you know, that's what's required to really get to the heart of the issue. And yeah, so when you cook without, you know, taking a step back, zooming out a little bit from the chemistry, when you cook, you're just, you're accelerating the breakdown of these unstable fats into other more harmful things,

which is that process of oxidation that we talked about earlier. So there are a few things that will accelerate that oxidation and cause seed oils to become even more problematic. One is heat, which is why heating deep fried food tends to be so bad is because it's not just that that oil isn't being fried or heated for five minutes, 10 minutes, 30 minutes. It's being heated for days. And so it's off the charts. So that's why my dream is if we could replace that deep fried oil with a more stable fat. I think you'd literally see an impact on chronic disease rates. So, so, but it's going to take a while, though.

And then the other outside of heat is oxygen. So if you could somehow like live in a vacuum and store your oil in a vacuum, then you would, you would reduce or actually potentially even completely eliminate, minimize oxidation. But no, that's not going to happen. Light is another. So when you see the super cheap big bottles of vegetables of vegetables, vegetable oil and like a clear plastic sitting on the shelf at supermarkets. That's a big red flag.

Fluorescent light has been shown to potentially even be more problematic from an oxidation standpoint than UV light. So sitting on a supermarket shelf, it could oxidize faster than even if we're sitting at the sun. And you know, supermarkets, they don't they don't turn the light lights out for 10 hours a day. Those lights are always on. And so, you know, just sitting there off. oxidizing. So yeah, like glass, dark glass is better. And then the best would be something like a tin or an

aluminum where it completely blocks out the UV light. Even those dark green or dark brown glass bottles that still lets some UV light in. It just lets less in than if it were clear plastic. So yeah, heat, light and oxygen are the big three. And breaks down when oils that are unstable are exposed to those things, they break down and become much worse. So if I have olive oil, if I have to choose between olive oil or avocado oil to cook with, let's assume that I got them in a dark glass bottle. Is there one that's going to be better for me to cook with than another? So if it's low heat cooking, then I think an extra virgin olive oil,

especially if you want the flavor of olive oil in your food is fine. Once you start turn up the heat a little bit more, I'd switch to the avocado oil, if those are my two choices. Because it has a higher smoke point. It's not going to smoke up your kitchen. It's not going to, those compounds in the oil aren't going to break down into potentially carcinogenic compounds. And then some dishes, like, I don't know, an Asian stir fry or something, you might just want more of a neutral oil than the olive.

flavor. If I were making a salad and making a dressing, I would definitely go for the olive oil over the avocado oil because I want a little bit of that flavor. And you're not risking, you know, any breakdown from from heating. In the test that we did when we, when we heated for, you know, 10, 20, 30, 90 minutes, the olive oil and avocado oil were both pretty close. You know, it's not like one was off the charts and, you know, one wasn't. avocado oil tends to have a bit more linoleic acid. So, you know, I tend to go more for olive oil just because I'm trying to minimize omega-6 linoleic acid.

But, I mean, you know, between those two, if you're using that, instead of like mazola corn oil or something like that, you're certainly making a huge improvement. Where does grass-fed butter fit into that? I cook with grass-fed butter a lot. Yeah, butter is very low in omega-6-6-lilal. acid. So it's, we did not include, I can't remember if we had butter in our test. I don't think we did, but butter hypothetically would also be very stable. It doesn't have a high smoke point. So again, if you're doing a stir fry, it's not the right cooking fat and it's going to break down.

But yeah, if you're scrambling some eggs or something like that on low heat, I mean butter's delicious. A lot of people don't do well with dairy. for whatever reason. But yeah, butter is much lower in omega-6 fats, like three, four, five percent. Yeah. That's what we do at the restaurant. When we say it when we are like, we're allergic to canola oil, we have them to do grass. If they have, if it's a high end and they have grass-fed butter, or we just have them

do butter because it feels like it's one step lower in the inflammatory capabilities of an oil. So what do you think of that? Is that a good, I mean, what else can you do until your oils get in every restaurant? Would butter be a better choice to have them cook with? I'll tell you a story. I used to live across the street from an Indian food restaurant that was delicious, but they cooked everything in soybean oil. So I asked them if they had any other oils or fats in their kitchen, and they said they had butter. I had butter in Indian food a little weird, but let's go for it.

So I'd order from this place every week, and I thought this whole time they were cooking my food in butter. after years of this, turns out that their butter, I'm putting in air quotes, is actually a big tub of margarine. I mean, you're just saying that. Oh, it was tragic. One of the worst days of my life. Yeah. And yeah, so you've just got to be careful.

This is why it's so messed up. Like you're trying to make a good lateral change, but then you had to ask, is it butter or is it margarine? Yeah, I should have asked that on day one. But I was, you know, looking back, I probably would have just rather had the soybean oil because margarine tends to be high in trans fats as well, which is a whole, whole different can of worms. But, but yeah, if, you know, if I go out to like a, for brunch or something, those places typically have butter, unless it's Denny's, which I learned the hard way, literally doesn't carry butter. They only have margarine. Denny's. But yeah, usually butter would be a better,

better in terms of minimizing omega-6 than something like a soybean oil, definitely. So talk a little bit about now that we, I mean, This is the thing about oils, and I hope everybody's grabbing this, is that it's so complicated, but it is the number one nutritional change you have to make, especially in the category of metabolic health. So I literally, when I hear people say that they struggle to fast, the very next question I ask is, tell me what your oil content is. What are you doing with oils? and as hopefully people can see, it's so complicated. I love your mission to get your oil in every restaurant.

How the heck are you going to do that? Well, we're still working on that strategy, but I think there are a few ways. One is, and this is the reason we focus so much on education, even if it has nothing to do with our products, if enough people see seed oils for what they are and see them as the next trans fats or tobacco smoking or, you know, high fructose corn syrup, the more that price doesn't become part of the equation,

at the end of the day, why McDonald's and Wendy's and Burger King and every other restaurant you probably go to is cooking in these oils is because they're cheap. You know, they're not particularly tasty. They're not particularly stable for deep frying, but they're really cheap and they're, you know, they're not off-putting enough to justify getting rid of them. But that said, you know, I don't, I don't, I don't, uh, avoid Coca-Cola or not smoke cigarettes because they're too expensive. You know, it doesn't matter how cheap they are. I'm not going to do it. And,

and so if enough consumers feel that way, then that will, then restaurants will start to feel that way too. And if they realize that they can actually increase the number of customers that come in their door by ditching the problematic seed oils, then, you know, maybe they will be willing to pay a premium and consider some other options. So that's a big reason we focus on education. Also, there are a lot of restaurants out there that do want to do the right thing. They don't want to be using ingredients that are really harmful for people. But in my conversations with them, they're also not going to be the first to switch, you know, just because they think it's the right thing to do. They're going to do what their consumers and customers demand they do.

So the more people like us that are going to restaurants and are, you know, being a little annoying about what kind of oils they cook with, that ends up making its way to management, you know, in like debrief meetings with the staff. They're like, yeah, a bunch of customers have been asking like why we use canola oil, you know, that that makes a difference. It's not going to happen overnight, but, you know, it's one way. And then I think, I think there are regulatory opportunities as well. There's some crazy data out there. For example, in China, the number one cause of lung cancer in non-smoking women is cooking with seed oils and inhaling the fumes. And, you know, it's also bad when we inhale those fumes of that oil that is oxidized. And so,

So there are some clear wins from a regulatory standpoint. If we can get these out of restaurants, you know, make it safer working conditions for employees of restaurants. But yeah, at the end of the day, you know, people like you and me and the people listening to this, they got to care and got to start speaking out. You know, I've spent a lot of time thinking about how we can overturn, overcome the profit-driven big food and big pharma. and I too have come to the conclusion that it has to be one by one by one,

that the only way we're going to change this whole food system is by educating each person and letting each person understand what the ramifications, the choices they make at the grocery store and at the restaurants, what that impact is on their health. And so I totally agree. Like these, the big egg is just so, I mean, that whole food. industry has so much profit in it, it's really difficult to navigate avoiding them. So you have to educate yourself so you know how to navigate it. If somebody decides to lean into, okay, I'm going to switch. Like, here's where my brain goes. It's like, what if you just switch your home oil to

the zero acre for a month? And that's all you do. You use the oil to cook with. You put it on your salads, it's your primary oil. Is there, what would somebody have you, do you have any data or any feedback from people who have completely switched to your oil what they've seen with their health? Only qualitative, and we've only been on the market for a couple months. So it's still, still very early. You know, a lot of the benefits are long term and are more chronic. But some of the, some of the nice short-term benefits are weight loss. We haven't, we haven't done a clinical trial with zero acre cultured oil on weight loss. But high linoleic acid diets have been linked to weight gain and lower linoleic acid diets,

you know, in randomized controlled trials have been linked to healthy weight loss. So we would expect that, you know, switching to cultured oil from basically any other oil that's going to be higher in linoleic acid, you know, may have some weight loss benefits. Some people have said, you know, they just feel better, you know, they're more clear head. seed oils have been tied to a number of autoimmune issues. So maybe there would be a diminishment of that. We want to do more analysis and actually run studies on this, but we haven't done them yet. You know what? My Reset Academy, we've got thousands of women in there. And there would be a really good sample. I'm going to go to them and say, okay, how many of you

are willing to just completely switch your oil to zero acre for a month? And that group is looking at their blood sugar, they're fasting, they're focused on being fat adapted, losing weight, good brain health. So I'm going to do my own little study for you, and I'm going to get back to you on that because I feel like, again, you know, if you look at how much it costs to run a research study, it's too high for, I mean, maybe a company like yours can eventually do it, but it's so expensive. So why don't we just do our own self-study? And I would encourage to the listeners do the same thing. Just try swapping out the oil for a month and look at your blood sugar numbers,

see how much easier you can fast, look at what your brain health is doing. I really think that could be powerful if we start to empower people one by one to just try a 30-day challenge and see what you notice. Have you had anybody like look at blood sugar or ketones when they do something like that? If they have, they haven't reported them to us. we're talking about doing a seed oil free challenge for a month. You know, we haven't put concrete plans to that. So maybe we can put our heads together on that.

Yeah, let us know how we can help. You know, talking to an audience that knows about that becoming fat adapted and, you know, fasting and using ketosis as a tool. You know, one of the things that I always like to like put an asterisk on is when when thinking about a healthy high fat, low carb diet, the type of fat really matters. So, you know, I think like a big takeaway from this conversation should be high, fat, low carb, being in ketosis, you know, fasting. Like the fat matters, you know, make sure you're ditching those high linoleic seed oils. And interestingly, when our body, we want to become fat adapted, we want to be able to effortlessly skip a meal and not have all those like crazy hunger signals.

Yeah. And have our body just, you know, cleave off a little bit of body fat for energy. but when that body fat is made of, you know, toxins and when that body fat is made of very unstable fatty acids, our bodies are smart. They don't really, they're not as, they don't want to cleave it off as readily if it's going to lead to a bunch of toxin generation and if it's unstable fats. So the more you can load up your your fat cells, you know, everyone has stores body fat, even the thinnest of us, if you can load up those fat cells with healthy fats, then your body may just be a little bit more ready to use that stored body fat as energy. Oh, I love that. So weight loss resistance.

That's what I just heard because that's the whole, that's the whole point of, or a big point, part of fasting is we're tapping into the energy system that burns energy from fat. And when a lot of people can't get into ketosis, what I just heard and what you just said is it could be because their body's just soaking in these bad fats. So would it, is it, is it probable we could add the good fats in and do this 30-day challenge, and that fat is now more accessible to burn? Is that what I just heard you say? Yeah, and I would be very curious to hear from people who, you know, the only thing they change, they don't change any of their macros, they're eating the same amount of fat.

The only thing that change is the type of fat, I'd be super curious to hear from people how they feel after a month of that. Oh, my gosh. Okay, so those of you listening, if you do that, please let us know. And Jeff, I'm going to bring this to my academy members, and we'll let you know. I just think you're on to something, a really cool tool here. So and I'm just so grateful for the way that your brain went about creating this is, is amazing.

And those of you that are listening, Jeff is giving you all free shipping. So if you just go down into the notes and use my last name Pell's, you'll get free shipping on your first order of zero acre. And I can tell you two things I love about it, Jeff. One is the bottle is really pretty. And so it just looks clean. And I always have my oils out on my countertop. So I like the way it looks.

And now I realize that because it's in tin, you're not getting the lights not going to affect it. Yeah, we use aluminum. But yeah, same benefit there. Okay, cool. So, and I really like the taste of it. I've been one of the things I'd love to do is make my own salad dressings.

and it has a different taste to it. And so I've had to experiment with the things I put with it for salad dressing. And I find that it can like, one of my favorite things is to put a Meyer lemon in a salad dressing because we have a tree. And it really highlights the Meyer lemon flavor. And I'm not sure if that's just because it's got such a smooth, clean taste. But it definitely is a different taste profile. Have you had people report that back?

Yeah, very similar feedback, you know, whether it's in salad dressings or food. Actually, a lot of people that use it to cook eggs will say, I can actually taste the eggs. Yeah. I mean, I still love eggs and butter, but my eggs, I'm not having, you know, eggs that taste like butter or eggs that tastes like olives. I'm having eggs that tastes like eggs, and they really appreciate that. What I personally do when I make salad dressings is I actually do a mix of extra virgin olive oil and cultured oil. And I get a little bit of that flavor of the olive oil. But when you mix it with cultured oil, actually stays liquid in the fridge. And it doesn't sort of like congeal and

solidify the way olive oil dressings do. And then you get a little bit of more flavor pop from the acids like lemon or vinegar in there. Should I be keeping my cultured oil in the refrigerator? Is that the best place to store it? Doesn't matter. There's no need to because it's so stable. and we actually add extra antioxidants in there just to be safe. But yeah, any oil that you add to the fridge, it would improve the shelf life. And it would reduce any oxidation that is happening. So it certainly can't hurt. And you wouldn't be able to do that with olive oil or avocado oil because it would start to solidify and you can't pour it out.

But yeah, if you wanted to store your cultural oil in the fridge, it would stay liquid. And it would prevent any oxidation. It would significantly reduce the any oxidation that's happening. Yeah, so cool, so cool. Well, this has been a great discussion. I have one last question for you. And here's what's really fun is that this is coming out in our fourth season. And every season, I have a different theme. And I kind of base the theme based off of what I'm seeing is happening in the world. So like this year or this past year, it's been gratitude because we're all in the state of complaining over the pandemic and politics and things like that. So but, but, but, but, what season four is about is self-love. So here's my questions for you is what makes you unique, you as a person, and what are your three superpowers? And you're allowed to brag about yourself. Oh, I'm not used to doing that. I know. I know. This is why it's going to be so good. You can do it. That makes me unique. You know, when I tell people I have dark chocolate every morning,

their exact words aren't that's unique, but it's something along those lines. That's a great idea. I just really love dark chocolate and I can't make it past morning. So that's probably a little unique. I love it. There's been a lot more talk of seed oils recently, obviously. I mean, this is top of mind since we just talked about this for the last hour. I've been avoiding them for over a decade.

I was like the weird guy who would go to restaurants with my friends and either bring a little thing of avocado oil. or like grill the waiter on the types of oils they used and then embarrassed my friends in the process. And so, you know, in my early 20s, that wasn't a cool thing to do. And it was certainly unique. And, you know, I'm glad I did it now. Let's see. So you're a catalyst. That's what I'm going to say is what are your superpower is you're a catalyst.

Because in that, if you go with your friends, you know, you're opening up a conversation that they may not even be aware of. You know, I wish my friends that led to a conversation about healthy fats. No, no. Yeah, again, early 20s. Yeah. I mean, being an entrepreneur is unique, and it probably makes me a little crazy. It's not easy. But when I see problems that aren't being solved or problems that, you know,

are affecting me in my life and no one is solving them, I just feel compelled to do something about it. I do too. And so. That's a superpower. I was going to say that the way you think, I mean, just in what I heard today, and we really need, I mean, especially in health care right now, we need people to think outside the box. You know, I've sat with a lot of experts of all different backgrounds and the general consensus

is that human health is really on a trajectory where we could move into extinction. And if we don't do something now about our health, our species will make. not survive. And when you break that down and you go into nutrition, the number one thing needs to be this oil change. So I'm going to give you the superpower of you thought outside the box to create this cultured oil. And I agree as an entrepreneur, you definitely have to think different. You definitely need a new pattern of thought that will change the world. So that's the superpower I give you, Jeff. I don't know if you want it. I'll appreciate that. I'll take it. I chalk it up to naive optimism because without that, you know, no one would ever start a business and, you know,

take on such a big industry as vegetable oils. But, yeah, you know, there's something there that has led to thinking we can pull this off. We'll see how far we get. Yeah, naive optimism. See, now if you could ask that question again, you could just say, oh, my superpower is naive optimism. That was good. I love that. So thank you so much. And where can people find you, where can they find the oils? And then those of you that are listening know that there is a discount code and we put it in the show notes. But how else can people find more about this really cool oil product you've created? We've been writing extensively about it on our blog at zeroacre.com slash blog. I don't know, maybe 1% of the content is about cultured oil. The other 99% is about

the issues with seed oils and talking about healthy fats, sustainable fats. But the product, cultured oil is at zero acre.com. If anyone wants to read my meandering on all things, health and nutrition and other aspects of life, it's at jeffnobs.com, which is my name. And yeah, like you said, for anyone listening, with the code Pell, they can get free shipping at zero acre.com on their first order. Awesome. Well, thank you. And I'm, this won't be the last you've seen or heard of me, because I'm going to go, I'm going to go experiment, do the oil challenge, and I will report back. Thank you so much for what you're doing. And the problem you're trying to solve is ginormous. So we need more people leading that pack. So thank you so much, Jeff, for being here and everything

you're doing. Thank you. And right back at you, thank you for creating this platform for people to talk about things like this, for the books that you've written in the community that you've built. We need more people like you as well. Thank you. Appreciate it. Thank you so much for joining me in today's episode. I love bringing thoughtful discussions about all things health to you. If you enjoyed it, we'd love to know about it. So please leave us a review, share it with your friends, and let me know what your biggest takeaway is.