The Ricochet Podcast - Bigger In Texas

Episode Date: May 13, 2016

As we adapt to a world where Donald Trump is the Republican nominee for President, we figured we ought book some very grounded guests for this week’s show. So listen in as we welcome Texas Governor Greg Abbott. The Governor has a new book, Broken But Unbowed: The Fight to Fix a Broken America. We also discuss bathrooms and his good friend Ted Cruz’s plans for the future. Then, The Weekly Standard’... Source

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Good evening, Mr. and Mrs. North and South American, all the ships at sea, let's go to press. Hello. I am paying for this microphone. I guarantee I'm not paying for this mic. Andrew, is Donald Trump a conservative? Of course he's not a conservative. And I'm a conservative, but don't forget, this is called the Republican Party. It's not called the Conservative Party.

Some men change principle for party, and some men change party for principle. If I become president, oh, do they have problems. They're going to have such problems. That's funny. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall. It's the Ricochet Podcast with Rob Long and Peter Robinson. I'm James Lylex, and our guests today are Governor Greg Abbott from the great state of Texas and Stephen Hayes from the Weekly Standard.

Let's have ourselves a podcast. I don't know why that's funny. Welcome, everybody, to this, the Ricochet Podcast. It's number 303, and it's brought to you by Casper's Mattresses. You know what they are, of course. They're the premium mattress you can get for a fraction of the price, delivered right to your door. Casper is revolutionizing the mattress industry by cutting the cost of dealing with resellers and showrooms and passing that savings directly on to you. And we're brought to you by a new sponsor, Betterment Investment Services. Betterment's mission is to help people manage and grow

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The Conservative Tradition, and hundreds of other courses absolutely free. Get started today by going to thegreatcoursesplus.com slash ricochet. And this recurring word ricochet may tell you that there's something underneath all of this that girds and binds together the right side of the blogosphere. That would be ricochet.com. Of course, Peter and Rob are here. Rob, briefly tell everybody why they ought to just – sometimes you open up your wallet and you just see a little cartoon fly come out because you just – Yeah, little moths come out. Right. site for members of the center right in america who uh want to sort of talk about politics and culture and things like that or just listen in on great conversations like this one or the ones we

have online uh but don't want to slog through the swamp of uh internet discussions as you i mean anybody just click on anything and you just see it just devolves into nonsense our members at ricochet are smart and witty and civil, and that's the rule of Ricochet. We are trying to strike a blow for that on the internet. We're the only ones, by the way. Everyone else is like canceling their discussion groups and disabling their comments. We're not. We think that people want to have real conversations as long as the rules are clear.

So if you are listening to this podcast and you are a member, thank you. We are pleased and honored to have you as members of Rico rules are clear. So if you are listening to this podcast and you are a member, thank you. We are pleased and honored to have you as members of Ricochet with us. If you are listening and you are not a member and every now and then someone will tweet to me and say, hey, I really feel guilty about it. Good. If you feel guilty about it, good.

Become a member. Go to ricochet.com, become a member. There are three levels of membership. You'll read all about it. But all levels allow you to not only get the super feed, listen to all our podcasts, but also contribute a little bit into the conversation, to comments.

You can vote things up. You can read a comment you think is really great and you don't want to comment on it. You just want to make sure it gets to the front page, which the front page of Ricochet is read and digested by movers and shakers and what they call influencers. Isn't that a hard word? But influencers all over the country

and especially in the evil, evil Washington, D.C. But nonetheless, it's a good thing to do. Influencers, in some circles, influencers are people who just show up at parties and then do Instagram photographs to tell everybody something

about this product or this place. So you have these people who have no discernible skill whatsoever who nevertheless fashion themselves as people who shape the culture. And for all I know, they do. Culture seems to be reshaped around it. James, you would be an influencer. Well, I would like to think I'm the kind of substantial, grounded influencers

because the number of parties which I show up and pose with a drink in my hand is nil. May I offer proof of one of Mr. R.C.B. Long's assertions here that the ricochet gets read and the podcast gets listened to? When we started out this enterprise lo these many years ago, what, three years ago now, Rob? In any event event we would call people and say will you please comment on the website will you please come on the podcast please please please please we're about to have as a guest the governor of texas and you know how we're get how we got him as a guest his staff called us and said hey you guys the governor and we all just love ricochet could you could you, the governor and we all just love Ricochet. Could you invite the governor?

Absolutely we can invite the governor, but Ricochet is red. That's true. That is true. And if you contribute, if you're a member, you get special access to the non-congratulatory podcast that we do. No, we don't do one of those. We only do self-congratulations. I like to think of it as influencing, James. Yes. You really

are besotted by this word, aren't you? Yeah, I just read a piece about it today about 20 minutes ago in Ad Age or somewhere about these brands have been paying these young people, these people who do Vines and Snapchats or whatever, they're paying them some astronomical sums of money.

It seems remarkably similar to what you just said. Yeah, now they're realizing that they're not getting anything for it. Of course not. Of course not. Absolutely. These are the people who say that they have their own individual brand, a loathsome word that nevertheless we find compelled to use ourselves in our daily life at work. Well, you know, one of the things we do here is we address the issues that bind

people together. It's a time of division. It really is. But I think we can all come together on certain issues like, oh, same-sex marriage and Donald Trump. Two things that literature itself is almost embarrassingly just a monoculture when it comes to those things. Trump to do today's Trump thing, the butler was yesterday's thing. Is the butler over now or are we waiting for the butler? Yeah, that's only one of his butlers though. There's another one I heard some other stories about, but go ahead. Well, what did the second butler start to put on? The second, but this is completely scurrilous gossip. All right. I am now telling you that I do not know if this is true. I only have heard it secondhand, but the person who told me said he heard it firsthand from one of the butlers down at Mar-a-Lago.

During the Clinton meltdown, pre-impeachment Monica Lewinsky scandal, if you're our age, old dudes, we's like, what? What was that? But back then, Monica Lewinsky was spirited away and she was somewhere in an undisclosed location for three weeks apparently. And that location, according to the scurrilous gossip, was Mar-a-Lago. She was the guest of Donald J. Trump. He helped his friend Bill Clinton out. Are we hearing this from second-tier butlers? Is that what you're saying? We are hearing it from a first-tier – we are hearing it secondhand from a first-tier Trump butler valet in Mar-a-Lago. And that – OK, scurrilous gossip. You can take it for what you want, but Ricochet podcast listeners deserve no less than scurrilous gossip. Well, yesterday, of course, it was the news that one of them had Facebook rant or something or they had talked about how that Muslim SOB ought to be dragged out of the White House and hung.

Yeah. Great. Yeah. And you like to think of butlers as having the Alfred sort of Michael Caine. Yeah. There it goes. Yes, of course. Yeah.

And themselves, anodyne sort of cipher people that don't – And to have them spitting out this stuff on Facebook, presumably by wearing – while wearing their butler uniform because you can't imagine – Give the cutaway. Right. Because once they take off that uniform, I don't think they are butlers. I think they have to wear that uniform all the time or some version of it when they go to bed. But in any case, that was yesterday. Today, it's Donald Trump has said that his tax rate is none of your business and previous statements about the tax returns. Jennifer Rubin,

who has been, shall we say, energetic on the subject of Trump over the Washington Post, believes that his refusal to hand out his tax returns is disqualifying. She believes that his continued insistence on drawing breath is disqualifying. She believes that his continued insistence on drawing breath is disqualifying, but be that as it may. Do you guys think so? You want to go first, Rob? Well, I'll go because I'm torn. I mean,

I'm not a Trump fan. I mean, that's what, you know, not a fan. That's what they say when somebody's not a, but I do – and I do think he's got a point. What is the – why are we always going at people's tax records? So I'm sympathetic to his argument. I only wish that it were not he making it. Is that hypocritical enough for you?

It matters in as much as he's not – he doesn't want to tell everybody what rate he pays. The suspicion, of course, is that he's just not worth as much as he thinks he is. That I think is more likely. I mean the rate he pays is either the actual income, right, income tax rate, and he's going to be at the top 1 percent no matter what. I mean he only makes a million dollars a year. Or he's paying the alternate pass-through kind of what they call carried interest rate, which is taxed cap gains, which is what Mitt Romney got in trouble with, what a lot of people got in trouble with. In which case he's already argued he's going to change that, although he's also argued that the top tax rate will go down. So it doesn't really matter. I mean one way or the other. I mean I actually feel like he probably is consistent in this.

But I suspect that it's his net worth in general that's the issue. It's not the $10 billion. It's like $900 million or something. So here's what I figure. One, he's not nearly as rich as he claims because he himself has said in a number of interviews, well, the value of real estate is notional. It goes up and down with people's feelings. He said his own value goes up and down with people's feelings, including his own feelings. Right.

So he's naming a number of $10 billion. That's his net worth. Who knows what he's really worth? It ain't going to be $10 billion. Guess number one. Guess number two, which is I feel absolutely certain about it, that for all his business career, Donald Trump has hired very good lawyers and said to them, fellas, do whatever you need to do.

Take advantage of every hole in this Swiss cheese of a tax code that we have, and you get me to pay the least possible money to the federal government. You set up what you need to in the Cayman Islands. You take advantage of this loophole. And item three, he's a skinflint. He hasn't been generous to anybody. That's my guess. All of that said, there is no constitutional requirement for a presidential candidate to disclose his taxes and the notion that his taxes are disqualifying. I have to say when Mitt Romney goes on and on about the tax forms, you could almost rewrite the argument. You could put him on mute and write at the bottom, hey, wait a minute. They rolled me over on my tax forms. They rolled exactly right.

He has to do this too, doesn't he? Nonsense. Some people have said though that Trump is holding it back because he wants to use it as leverage to make Hillary release the transcript of the speeches that she gave to Wall Street and that there'll be things in there against which he can use her. And, you know, Hillary did not make those speeches for free. But if you'd like to hear a great speech for free, you go to the great courses. That's right. They've got a new video learning service, the great courses plus where you can learn

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And so The Great Courses Plus, they're offering you and our listeners a chance to stream hundreds of their courses, including the conservative tradition, which is, might I add, a $320 value. But you're going to get it for free when you go to thegreatcoursesplus.com slash ricochet. Get started today, why don't you? That's thegreatcoursesplus.com slash ricochet. Now, was that any fun, James? There was no segue

interruption. I just sat there. I had myself on mute. Can you honestly tell me that was fun? Obviously, I was off my game. You were a No, obviously I was off my game. You were a little nervous. I was off my game. I think so. I really was because I was just – things were not going right.

There was – it's like coming home after a hard day at work and the dog doesn't come to the door. There's nobody in the kitchen. Something's wrong. So I didn't have my mind in the spot because i'm thinking is rob okay is he all right and you know i was typing in the slack box here i sat quietly i sat quietly i sat on my hands i put myself on mute so i just think that it's important for everyone to know that when i don't do it now now it's like i've defined deviancy down. I've moved the Overton window. It now includes things like incredible interruptions of otherwise professional segues. really that there would be such a wholesale, widespread, gleeful, hand-rubbing face glowing in the embers as the pyre ignites joy in destroying as many possible norms and expectations as we seem to be doing? Wait.

Incoming, Scott? Well, we're going to have to just leave that where it is. We'll get back to the point about destroying American civilization and the glee some feel about it because we have to get to our guest and we just can't wait. It's Governor Greg Abbott. He's the 48th governor of Texas. And prior to being elected governor, he was the attorney general of Texas and previously served as a justice on the Texas Supreme Court and as a state district judge in Harris County. His new book, Broken But Unbowed, The Fight to Fix a Broken America. Welcome to the podcast, sir. Oh, it's so good to be with you.

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Governor, it's Peter Robinson on the line. You and I chatted about a week ago now. The program we recorded is going to go up live on Monday. But your book is now about to roll out to bookstores and become available on Amazon, broken but unbowed. Let me just quote one sentence. My back was broken, but my will was not. Everybody in Texas knows exactly what you're referring to, but we've got a lot of listeners in the rest of the country. Could you just tell the story?

Sure. I had just graduated from law school. I was 26 years old and moved to Houston, Texas, where I had taken a job with a large law firm in downtown Houston. And I was studying for the bar exam, which is the test that aspiring lawyers must pass before they can become a licensed lawyer. And I took a study break from studying for the bar exam and one day went out for a jog. And while I was out jogging, a huge oak tree crashed down onto my back and fractured vertebrae into my spinal cord, leaving me immediately and permanently paralyzed and never able to walk again. And this came as a shock to me, in addition to the shock to the body. But I've been a person who'd always been athletic my entire life. You were a track athlete. Running was part of your life.

Running was part of my life. And so to go from being a runner to never being able to run or even walk again was a complete and total shock to my system. And when someone faces a situation like that, sometimes people give up. But my attitude was that I was going to piece my life back together and move on and use it the most effective way that I could. Governor, I want to talk more about you and the Constitution and broken and unbowed in a moment. But I know James Lilacs wants to get right in here. We talked about this beforehand. You gave a speech in Texas the other day, and James wants to ask about it. Well, the Obama administration has decided that transgender rights is the new civil rights act of our time and that the bathrooms of schools are the new Woolworth lunch counters.

And at this effect, they've announced some initiatives and you have pushed back. What's your take on that and what do you see happening? The take on that is precisely what I articulate in the Broken But Unbowed book. That book, in part, is about my life, but really focuses on the way the nation is broken but must remain unbowed. And the reason why the nation is broken is because of precisely the issue that you just raised. And that is, you said that what the president wants to do is to rewrite the laws for bathrooms for those who are transgender. And here's the deal. The Constitution provides the branch of government that's responsible for writing laws, and that branch of government is the United States Congress.

The Constitution does not allow or provide for the president of the United States to be able to write laws, and yet that is precisely what the president is the United States to be able to write laws. And yet, that is precisely what the president is trying to do with regard to this particular law. The president is rewriting the Civil Rights Act, where Congress specified those who are covered by the Civil Rights Act and those who are transgender are not covered by the Civil Rights Act. And so the president is acting like a king by unilaterally expanding the scope of a law that was passed by Congress. Well, that wouldn't be the first time.

It wouldn't be the first time, but believe me, I've sued in the past for ways in which he's tried to do that in the past. An easy example was this Clean Power Plan that he tried to unilaterally alter through the EPA that we had shut down at the United States Supreme Court. Amazingly, it was the week that Justice Scalia passed away, but more profoundly in a bigger case where the president himself, using his words, the president said 20 times he would be acting as a king or an emperor if he changed the immigration laws in this nation. After he said that, after the last election, he unilaterally changed the immigration

laws in this nation by rewriting them, by taking the role of Congress and assuming the responsibilities of the legislative branch into the executive branch, he broke the Constitution. Is this impatience with incremental change in society, or is this just a desire to just cut to the chase and say, look, we're going to make this happen by fiat? It's a bad precedent for governing, no matter which side you're talking about. It's an abdication of the United States Constitution. The thing, as much as anything else, that has elevated the United States to the premier nation in the history of the world is that we were the rule of law as opposed to the rule of men. People forget,

because it was such a long time ago, why the United States even began in the first place. In the 1700s, this was a time when oftentimes countries began because of conquerors, those who would conquer a particular land, and hence that land was named France or whatever the case may be. In the United States, the United States was not established by conquerors, but by fighters for freedom, defenders of freedom against the monarchy in Great Britain. And we fought against Great Britain because Great Britain was imposing the rule of men as opposed to the rule of law. And so we were very clear when the United States was established that we were going to get away from this rule of man context and instead be a rule of law nation. And we were profoundly so for the first century of our existence. But very incrementally after that time, we've become increasingly the rule of man, and it has now risen to its apex in the deviation from the United States Constitution by Barack Obama unilaterally rewriting laws and the Constitution itself.

Hey, Governor, it's Rob Long calling from New York City. Thank you for joining us. Can I just talk a little bit more broadly? I mean I'm reading today the murder rate in American cities is up almost 15 percent. About half Americans say if they had an emergency, they could not come up with $400. There are actually more kids coming across the southern border, probably more expected in the summer. Why are we talking about bathrooms? The bathroom issue, especially because the Obama administration has raised this to a national level by rewriting the Civil Rights Act. This is not an isolated incident. The United States of America has a very comprehensive Civil Rights Act

that has now been rewritten. And frankly, you talked about the border. The border issue and the bathroom issue are identical issues. They are both issues where the Constitution has been violated, where the laws of the country have been violated, where the constitutional structure has been violated, where we have a president who's abdicated the Constitution and decided to rewrite the laws of the United States. And let me tell you, we are a nation headed for absolute disaster unless and until we get back on our constitutional structure. So we have fought and will continue to fight it every single turn, every single time the United States president decides that he is above the law, that he is a king, that he can write whatever laws he wants to write. But it seems – I mean I'm just talking about from the perspective of a voter out there in a very political year, a partisan year, and a contentious year. Big, big, big issues on the table. Obamacare was a bigger power grab for the federal government.

It seems strange that we're – our side is digging in on public bathrooms. Well, again, it's far larger than that. It's a way in which the country has gotten away from the rule of law and is allowing kings in Washington, D.C., to be dictators. What Americans are tired of, and the reason why you've seen the rise of Trump, is because Americans are absolutely tired of, one, insiders in Washington, D.C., who have absolutely no spine to stand up for the rule of law, and two, a president who has abdicated the rule of law. And people understand in this country there's one guiding force that has made America great, and that is the rule of law. And unless and until we get back to that rule of law, we're going to devolve into

a third world style nation. And this is something that's not going on just in the United States of America. This is the exact same thing that's been in the process over the past decade of absolutely decimating Europe, of absolutely decimating Great Britain. And you're seeing the same thing with it gave rise to the election of the new president in the Philippines. And so this is something that's happening globally, just like it was happening globally back in the 1700s. And it's a time when Americans refocus on fundamentals, and the fundamental in this nation is the rule of law as opposed to the rule of man. Governor, Peter here one more time. You spent some five years as a judge on the Texas

Supreme Court. You spent about a decade as Attorney General of Texas. Now you're the governor. Throughout your career, you have been, in my reading, not only conservative but someone who has emphasized again and again, just as you're doing now, the underlying principles of conservatism. Practical problem for all of us. Right now, the practical problem, how do we make up our minds? How do we think through the following? Ronald Reagan is unavailable and Ted Cruz lost. What do we make of Donald Trump as conservatives, as principled conservatives? Well, it is a little bit confusing at first glance.

First, Ted Cruz is a personal friend of mine. He worked with me when I was the attorney general of Texas. He was my solicitor general. So I know Ted at a personal level and know the true committed conservative that he is. And had Trump not been in the race, Ted Cruz had done everything that was required for a true conservative to win. And he was on the cusp of victory, but for the fact that Trump got in. And there are a couple of different dynamics that are going on that I think help give the rise to Donald Trump. One, he was a larger

than life figure, and that helped. Had he not been a larger than life figure, I don't think he would have gotten to where he is now. But substantively, there were a couple of issues and they really go back to what we've been talking about all along. Americans are absolutely fed up with the fact that our border has not been secured. The first issue that Donald Trump came out on and campaigned on, in fact, had he not done this point, he probably would have not risen. He came out and said he's going to do what the federal government has failed to do, not just over the past four years, but over the past 40 years, and that is the federal government has failed to secure our border. This is something that doesn't really have anything to do with regard to the, quote, immigration issue. It has everything to do

with the rule of law issue, And Americans are sick and tired of the American government turning a blind eye to not enforcing and applying the rule of law and allowing the Obama administration or prior administrations to turn a blind eye to the rule of law. And so this is something more profound than what you all or maybe even others are recognizing. And that is American people are saying you enforce the rule of law or we're going to kick you out of office. And Donald Trump stood strong on that particular issue. Now, Donald Trump stood strong on another issue, an issue that Ted Cruz did not pick up on, at least not initially, and that is this very profound anger and frustration that middle America has because of the lack of jobs

and because of the exportation of jobs. And let me tell you, all of this really exists because of one reason. And that's because not the rise of, but because of the dramatic expansion of the bureaucratic state and the way that government is running our lives. And that is the factor that is questioning jobs more than any other factor. Get this mathematical fact. And that is, there's only been two decades over the past century during which time gross domestic product in this country never exceeded 3% for any one year during that entire decade. One was during the Great Depression. Two has been during the last 10 years. This is what

people would find amazing because this has been 10 years when unemployment has been very low. Despite that fact, GDP, gross domestic product, has not been at or above 3% for any year in the past 10 years. And there's a reason for that. And that's because of the regulatory regime the Obama administration has imposed on the United States of America. It makes it impossible for employers to grow and expand their jobs. Until we pull the boot of the federal government off the throat of the job creators, the small business and middle sized business owners in this country, America will not get growing again. Donald Trump tapped

into that and was able to coalesce the blue collar workers or the middle class workers, those who are wanting a job, those who are tired of federal regulations, and he galvanized those forces. So is the answer to that then going to be tariffs, which could cost people $6,000 a family? Well, and the reality is, and listen, I have not talked to Donald Trump about this, and I don't know the details of his plans. We have all seen the way that he has said one thing and then realized some challenges to it and backed off of it. And so I'm not sure where he's going to go on this. to success here is to get rid of Obamacare, dramatically peel back Dodd-Frank, which is

preventing lending and driving up the cost of business, and rein in the EPA. I could go a lot further than that, but I can tell you... Looking for reliable IT solutions for your business? At Innovate, we are the IT solutions people for businesses across Ireland. From network security to cloud productivity, we handle it all. Installing, managing, supporting and reporting on your entire IT and telecoms environment so you can focus on what really matters, growing your business. Whether it's communications or security, Innovate has you covered. Visit Innovate today. Innovate, the IT solutions people. If those three things were done,

you would, in one year, see GDP far exceed 3%, probably go to 4% or 5%. Governor, so I've got two questions, and here's the first one. You're supporting Donald Trump if indeed the convention makes him the nominee, or you're in the Paul Ryan camp. I've got to hear a little more from this fellow,

have a conversation or two with him before I make up my mind. Where are you personally with regard to Donald Trump? I have outlined the imperative that of America is to have a bright future. We must not have Hillary Clinton as president. She will perpetuate the disastrous Obama agenda. She will expand the rule of monarchy as opposed to the rule of law in the United States of America. She will further deteriorate and erode our Constitution. Issues that we have taken for granted for decades, for an entire generation, have been issues that were decided by five to four decisions on the United States Supreme Court. The Ten Commandments monument that I fought for, the ban on partial birth abortion, Second Amendment rights, all of those issues were decided by five to four decisions at the

United States Supreme Court, with the pivotal vote being the vote of Justice Scalia. If we don't have a president who's going to appoint a successor to Scalia, who's going to apply the rule of law in a conservative fashion, or conversely, we have Hillary Clinton, who has promised that she would appoint a president who would peel back the individual right to keep them to arms, then the country is going to go in two different directions. So my answer is we have got to stop Hillary. And the only way to do that is to elect Donald Trump. Got it. Governor, Peter again, one more time.

Your staff told us you had so and so much time and that was it because you've got a big state to run. So I'm going to ask if you'll come back on to talk about the Constitution and to talk more about your book, Broken But Unbowed. But I'd like to ask one question that you can deal with pretty quickly before we let you go back to running Texas, and it's this. In state after state after state in this country, conservatives have spent at least a decade hoping only for a dignified retreat. Here in California, lose the social issues, lose regulation, only have a third of each house in the legislature, so you can't even prevent tax.

Just losing one piece of ground after another. In Texas, conservatives have been on the march. As you know, when I was in Texas, I was seated with some of your legislators and the Senate is already planning to hold hearings on zero-based budgeting. It's just amazing. Texas has made one conservative step after another. Tell me how you view, what is the importance of Texas to the rest of us? I'll answer that, but let me ask you a question that you can ponder now and ponder later. Name a city or state that failed because it taxed too little. Yeah. I don't think you can name one. I don't like that. that failed because it taxed too little. Yeah.

I don't think you can name one. I don't like to put, put, put, put, put that in the widget of California and think about it later in the country. Uh, but the,

the importance of the importance of Texas is this, and that is, uh, we have created a model, uh, that works, uh, that is something that,

uh, uh, the, the beauty of competition is, uh, leading to the expansion of it across America. The formula is this. Low taxes, and by the way, we cut taxes by $4 billion expedite the permitting process, and legal reform or reform in the tort reform system, in the legal challenge system, which I hear is as abusive in California as perhaps any other state. Those five things lead to a very dynamic economy. Get this. Just this last week, Texas was for the 12th year in a row selected by CEO Magazine as the best state to do business.

In March, I received the Governor's Cup for the fourth year in a row as the best state for new and expanded corporate facilities. We are having businesses and individuals come to the state of Texas voting with their feet more than any other state in the United States. Texas is attracting businesses and individuals to the state because Texas is the land of opportunity. What that is doing in turn is it is causing other states such as Florida and Alabama and Georgia and even New York to try to compete with Texas, understanding that Texas has a model and that they are tired of losing their businesses. So the beauty of competition among the states is leading to an alteration in the way that states across the country do business. And of all things, think about politics for a second. You

know, there are certain red states and certain blue states. A solid blue state for the longest time has been Maryland. And this last election, Maryland of all states elected a Republican governor, and he did so by promising to do away with a tax. It's called the rain tax. I don't know the details of it, but apparently they impose a tax. It's called the rain tax. I don't know the details of it, but apparently they impose a tax every time it rained, which shows the insanity of some of the liberal causes out there. But if in Maryland, they can begin to incrementally get more conservative by peeling back certain taxes, by making their economy better. We are seeing this dynamic spread across the country. Yes. Well, the people coming to Texas are voting with their feet.

If nothing else, they're quite limber. I like to see that. We thank you so much for coming by the podcast today. The book is Broken but Unbowed, The Fight to Fix a Broken America. Governor Greg Abbott, thank you for being on the show, and we look forward to talking to you down the road. Governor, thanks so thanks. Thank you all so very much. Thanks, Governor. Take care. You know, Rob, you asked why are we talking about these things. That's a good question. Yeah. And we're talking about them because- I still want to know. Well, the issue just became suddenly important and very important and incredibly important

because everyone decided that that's what we were going to talk about. And that set the media. And all of a sudden, everybody had to figure out which was the virtuous position because there's new virtues change and the proper attitudes change. Just your feet while you were going on with your daily life. It is it is odd, though. Is it possible we can talk about all of these things, Rob? Yeah, of course. Betterment. Financial.

Betterment's mission is to help you manage and grow your wealth. I'm sorry. I just want to make you see what it's like. Normally you do that and I'm tricked. I'm tricked into thinking that you're making that sort of wasn't even a segue. No, no, it wasn't.

It wasn't. We're changing the game here. We're just – everything's – all bets are off. I'm so confused now. I don't know what to do or say or think. But go ahead. We have a new sponsor. We should treat our new sponsor with some dignity, I guess.

I'm just saying what a strange one day is suddenly virtuous the next. And that's when it comes to our, our, the way we do these podcasts here. We can't get lazy. We can't sit in our laurels. Laurels are very, very small and fragile things. And who wants to be,

you know, given a laurel, it's been sad. A laurel pillow. Yeah. Anyway, we were talking about betterment, which we mentioned at the top of the show is a new sponsor and we're happy to

have them because as Rob noted, and I, this was originally going to be the segue, by the way, that a lot of people don't have $400 on hand for an emergency. That's bad. And if you find yourself in a position where you're thinking, I need more for retirement, and the alternative is maybe a pillow over the face, no, no, no, no. There's a way.

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No fees. And you can learn out how you do that by going to betterment.com slash ricochet. That's betterment.com slash ricochet. Betterment. Okay, sorry. No, I didn't mean to do that. There's a tagline here.

Oh, sorry. Just put on the leash. I'm a coffee. How much coffee have you had today? A lot, sorry. No, I didn't mean to do that. There's a tagline here. Oh, sorry. Just put on the leash. Apologize. How much coffee have you had today? A lot, actually. A lot. I had about three cups this morning. Very, very good call of yours.

I just wanted to say Betterment Investing Made Better. Only three cups? Well, yeah, I mean I'm susceptible to that. But I wanted to talk a little bit about Betterment, not just Betterment the company, but the idea that once again here we have this thing, investing, saving for retirement, which is now being incredibly personalized and automated in a pretty smart way, accessible on your phone with sort of like rapid-fire data transfers that you need. It's very similar to what's happening in healthcare now. I would love to get a healthcare sponsor to doing this kind of thing. And this is a conservative revolution, right? This is a company saying, do this yourself. You know you have to do it yourself anyway.

You don't trust government. And the other side is constantly selling us on these big government, large behemoth corporations essentially who are going to do it for you. And I think it's a really good example of why the future should be conservative. And I still am baffled as to why it's – the present isn't well except for this reason because i feel like the left doesn't care if most people are smart and most people use um you know individualized products for saving individualized products for health care most people make a choice they don't care when rich people go to private school in other words right they just want to control a larger a plurality of americans and the plurality of american choices and they are the ones dividing

the country into two into halves halves and have-nots the halves are the ones that have a choice and have not to the ones that have not a choice um and i kind of so whenever we have a sponsor like this i always kind of get excited because i feel like this should be the way the country is moving and i don't know why it's not well the old structures also help uh the constituent elements of the Democratic Party, which is why we have, and I use the word disruptive, and we all roll our eyes at it, but it's true. Lyft and Uber

were disruptive ways of breaking up the cartels that control taxis. They hate that. Even though it's individual choice, they hate that. You have to be amused at Austin saying, we don't know who these drivers are, because you can't be trusted to make the choice of calling somebody up for a ride. That's something they've got to get involved in.

And so while they will institute on one hand fingerprinting for Uber drivers, they will say then to businesses, you can't ask if that guy is a felon. Yeah, you can't profile anybody. Did you guys happen to notice Ovik Roy tweeted from Austin? Ovik is living in Austin now. Yeah, you can't profile anybody. that from downtown Austin to the airport in an Uber, 17 minutes. He came back the next day. Uber and Lyft had discontinued service because of the ballot measure down there, and it took him over half an hour to get back into downtown Austin. Anyway. There's an interesting – I mean I know there's obviously news of the day to get to, but there's an interesting economic argument to be made about people unlocking the value of the things

they already own like a car. I mean your car doesn't do anything for – what is it? 70 percent of its life, 75 percent of its life, it just sort of sits in the garage or sits parked in a spot. The spare room in your apartment or house doesn't do anything for most of the time. And so there is this interesting thing that's going on with Airbnb and Uber and these for unlocking value across a lot of economic lines, which I think is really interesting. I mean the – I was just talking to a friend of mine who's working on a project related to this last night, and he was talking about how in the early days – and we remember this. There was this problem with Uber or these kind of services in New York City because it was mostly mob control. And so in a way, crime-busting Rudy Giuliani in New York City brought disruptive Uber.

Yep. Another little factoid. Fascinating. I'm full of them. I'm full of them. Yes. Well, the last time I took Uber was in D.C., and it's a delight. I was on my way, as a matter of fact, to the Weekly Standard, which brings us to our next guest.

For some people, of course, the Weekly Standard is how you have to adjust your principles this week, depending on what the party and its leaders are saying. For other people, the Weekly Standard is the publication they go to with glee because it's got fantastic writing, including Steve Hayes, senior writer at the Weekly Standard and author of two New York Times bestsellers, Cheney, the untold story of America's most powerful and controversial vice president, and The Connection, Hoy Al Qaeda's collaboration with Saddam Hussein has endangered America. Regular Fox All-Stars panelist on a special report with Brett Baier. Welcome, Steve. Hey, Cheney, your guy endorsed Donald Trump, didn't he?

Yeah, he did. He said he was going to support Donald Trump. We didn't get much more than that. We didn't get much of an understanding of his reasoning there. But if you look back over the years, Cheney's been a pretty solid party guy down the line. And I think this is just an example of him falling in line. And when can we expect Steve Hayes to fall in line? Steve, it's Peter here. Hi, Peter. I will not be falling in line. You get this question when we fall in line,

you know, other people are doing it, other conservatives. And my question, I mean, the more we learn, I become more firmly resolved never to support Trump. So my answer is under no circumstances will I support Donald Trump. So, OK, Steve, let's go back. I know you've had this argument a hundred times, but you haven't discussed it with me since Trump was the nominee. So I'm going to make you go back over a few of the basics. How can it be possible that in a political system where the whole question over and over and over again is to vote for the least bad candidate?

We're used to that now. How can it be possible to say that a certain candidate in and of himself without reference to his opposition, in and of himself is reference to his opposition, in and of himself is categorically disqualified. How can that be the case? Mustn't it be the case that we say, is Donald Trump worse or better than Hillary Clinton? I think it's fine to make that judgment on that relative basis. And as you say, I mean, that is in some sense the nature of our

politics. It's what people do every time they decide to go into the polling booth. Having said that, I think Donald Trump in some respects is uniquely disqualified because I think there are real questions about his stability based on what he said, based on what we've seen from him over the years. And while I think many of those same questions can be asked about Hillary Clinton, and I consider myself in the never Hillary camp as well, I think if you look at Donald Trump and you listen to the assessments of people who spent time debating him, spent time arguing with him, like Marco Rubio, like Rick Perry, like Bobby Jindal and others, when they said he is unfit to serve as commander in chief. We shouldn't have him anywhere near the

nuclear codes. I think those assessments were right when they made them. I think we've gotten more evidence to demonstrate that those assessments were right. And I'm disturbed by the number of people who seem to be saying, in effect, he's unfit to serve as commander in chief, but we should have him as commander in chief because we think on certain narrow issues, he might be better than the alternative. It doesn't work with me. So the commander, that's the hurdle issue. Either you trust a candidate with the nuclear codes, or you don't even ask any further questions along the lines of Supreme Trump selecting a Supreme Court justice, despite what he might have said earlier about selecting his sister and his history of liberal activism, that his pledge now to select a Supreme Court

justice that the Heritage Foundation and the Federalist Society would approve of is reason enough to vote for Donald Trump. There are no doubt people who believe that. I know many of them. We just spoke to Governor Abbott of Texas, and that was exactly the argument he made to us 15 minutes ago, that the Supreme Court is what matters here. In my view, it's the most compelling argument. If somebody was skeptical of Donald Trump or was once sort of never Trump and wants to vote for Trump, I think that's the most compelling single argument to be made on behalf

of that position. However, I would point back to these questions about how Donald Trump would conduct himself in office, particularly with respect to the responsibilities of commander in chief. But let me give you two quick examples. I mean, I think there's a lot to be concerned about with Donald Trump's unpredictability. But in this case, I have two reservations that I hold because I worry that Donald Trump will do exactly what he's said he will do. The first issue is on trade and tariffs, where Donald Trump has said he wants a 45 percent tariff on the Chinese economy, which would immediately give us a recession.

When he was pressed on that, he said, if China treats us unfairly, we'll tariff their whole economy. That was his comment in the Fox Business debate. That is unstable. It's not realistic. It's not desirable. I think it's deeply concerning. And I would ask you, when was the last time Donald Trump thought he was treated fairly on anything? And then the second question, the second point would be Vladimir Putin. I mean, we've had Trump praise Putin in the context of questions about Putin killing political opponents and journalists, and Trump still praised him. Hey, we kill a lot of people, too. We kill a lot of people, too. That's exactly right. He's indicated that he wants to, you know, sort of reset the reset.

It's not at all hard to imagine Putin calling President Donald Trump saying, Donald, all of your skeptics were so wrong about you and your strength, your virility. Let's join together. We can really restart this relationship. And listen, I'm not going to ask for much. You've talked about dismantling NATO because of the suckers that are mooching off the United States. Let's just go ahead and do that. And by the way, can you just remove the troops from the region? And then we can reset this, and you'll be seen as a wise and strong leader.

Steve, Peter here. I've got one more question, and then I know Rob for sure wants to ask a couple questions. James for sure wants to ask it. So let me get in one more question, and then I will take your answer and fall silent. And here's the question. Christian, I'm sitting out here in California and even I am getting phone calls from people I know to be plausibly what they say they are, which is close to the Trump campaign. You're a reporter in Washington, so you're hearing what I'm hearing times ten. And what I'm hearing is that Donald Trump is talking to pretty good people. He's talking to Josh Bolton on foreign policy. He's reaching out

to economists who probably I shouldn't name because I don't think this has been made public, but very straightforward free market economists, and that he's considering starting to name some cabinet positions between now and the time of the convention. And one name under consideration for Homeland Security is Rudy Giuliani. So the question is this, if Trump recognizes that a lot of people of goodwill, such as Steve Hayes, feel the way they feel, and that because of his erratic background, and frankly, his erratic statements during the debate, people are going to need particular reassurance that he'll be a stable and considered president. Is there anything he can do such as beginning to release the names of advisers and perhaps even name cabinet positions that would make you feel better, that would make you willing to support him if reluctantly? No, not me. but I think that would

be the smartest single thing he could do at this point, honestly. I mean, if I were advising Donald Trump, I don't think he'd like me to pick up the phone and call me. That's exactly what I would have him do is lay out, you know, a cabinet and say, these are the people, you know, assuming they can get confirmed who you would see serving in a Trump administration. And there are people who are willing to sign on to Donald Trump. There are more people every single day who are willing to sign on and support Donald Trump. So I think he could probably fashion a cabinet or a would-be cabinet that would put people at some ease about the possibility of his becoming president. I think he would do well to name a running mate sooner rather than later, quite honestly. The reports are that he's looking at people like a Bob Corker, among others.

I think that would be probably a senator from Tennessee. Tennessee, right, would give people some reassurance that however erratic and unstable and unpredictable Trump himself might be, he's at least got people around him that would seek to temper all of that. I would just ask in response, when was the last time Donald Trump listened to his advisors? Hey, Steve, it's Rob Long calling from New York Thanks for joining us So when exactly in the summer Do you plan to endorse Donald Trump? That's my first question

I haven't heard all this Did you ask Jonah Goldberg the same question? No, I know better than that I will not be endorsing Donaldald you're not okay endorsing so um so what are you doing what do you do in your in in your uh your private little moment there where you're thinking and you kind of realize if you're like me i'm just assuming you're like me and you look at the states that trump's got to win and they look really hard and you look at that hillary clinton's probably going to beat him it's probably gonna be a major thing happens in november probably that's

where the odds are. What are you looking forward to, four years – eight years of Hillary Clinton? I mean how do you advance the center-right cause in general with what will then – will look to be at least 12 years of left-wing executive power? Yeah, I mean no, I desperately would like to avoid four years of Hillary Clinton, the prospect of Hillary Clinton being able to consolidate the gains that Barack Obama has made, whether you're talking about Obamacare, whether you're talking about judges, whether you're talking about the executive actions on immigration. I mean, it's a horrifying thought to think that she will be able to do that. But it's highly, highly likely, right? At this point, it's a hard-fought thought. You and I sort of agree on the Trump business, but I think we probably also agree on the likelihood of a President Trump. And so I find myself walking down the street and saying, well, I don't know. Secretary Larry Summers, Secretary of Treasury Larry Summers, not so bad. coming up with mythical figures in the Hillary Clinton cabinet just to make myself a little bit more comfortable. But then on the other hand, there are people who I know are smart or are supporting Donald Trump

who are looking at me like, I'm crazy. Come on. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, he's a little bit loose, but it'll all work out. Wouldn't you rather have him here? I mean, don't you sometimes feel like Donald Sutherland in the Body Snatchers movie? You just go to sleep. Just lie down. Yes, yes. No, that is exactly how I feel like Donald Sutherland in the Body Snatchers really is you're virtually certain to get from Hillary Clinton some version of Obama ism for the next four years. what happens, assuming she's elected, depending on what happens after she were elected, would have a reasonably good chance of taking back the White House and hopefully reversing some of those games, but I fear not reversing others. But you sort of expect, know what to expect from Hillary Clinton, and it's not good. With Donald Trump, in many ways, you don't know what to expect from Trump. I think the possibilities of Trump making catastrophic decisions are marginally higher than Hillary Clinton, even if they're sort of offset in my mind by the possibility that he would make a good decision.

But isn't that part of the appeal? I mean aren't you the kid at the magic show pointing out, oh, I can see the trick there? I mean, everybody else looking at you like, can you shut up, please? We're enjoying the magic show. I don't know. I mean, I don't ever claim to have that kind of wisdom. All right, so let me ask you this. Before we go on, because I want to ask a little bit – I want to listen to what the dark war room at the Weekly Standard offices are where you and Bill Kristol are plotting your independent third-party team.

But before we get to that, what were the personal reasons to oppose Trump? Were they actually personal? Are they good? Are they juicy? Can we hear them? Not that juicy. I mean, I've had – I mean, I have sort of a unique perspective on some of this because Trump has come after me so many times. I've got three kids, 11, nine and six. And the two older ones have paid fairly close attention to the race. And they ask questions about it. They don't like him because, of course, he attacks me, but they're influenced by their friends. And my son one day went to school and came to me and said, Dad, you know, maybe we

should like Trump because my friends tell me he has the most points right now. This was during the primary. And he said, what is it that you don't like about Trump? And I sort of walked him through some of the big pictures. I cited the John McCain comments and prisoners of war, walked through a couple of the big objections. And then I talked to him about Trump mocking Serge Kovalevsky, the disabled New York Times reporter. And it was a fascinating discussion with my son. And I'll tell only that little bit of it. There was a lot more to it that I'll keep personal and keep to myself. But, you know, I told him about the disability, described how Kowalewski lives from day to day, described what Trump had done. And my son looked up at me sort of with the innocence of a child and said, why would anybody do that? And I thought, that's a pretty good question. So my kids will

never hear that I supported that man. It's important to me that they never hear that. Now, I've got excuses too. I live in Maryland. It's a blue state. I'm going to vote for Trump. But I think it's important that I can say to my kids, honestly, I did not support that. You know, Stephen, there are some times, you mentioned the New York Times, and there's sometimes I think perhaps one of the things that you could say about Donald Trump is that deep down he's insecure. Deep down he's insecure because nobody who boasts like that about their member, about their self, about all the wonder, the constant, incessant, chest-thumping alpha male boasting has to betray, could possibly betray a massive approval of the most are not the groundlings who show up and cheer for him, but the editorial board of the Washington Post and the New York Times.

Because as an Ariviste, as an outsider, as the Bulgarian, the guy who put up the buildings, the guy who got yelled at for tearing down Bonwit Teller by all those fine folk up in their ivory tower. Isn't this really the group that in the end he would be the most gratified to see them bend the knee? And if that is the case, then might not some of those Supreme Court decisions, cases, choices be made with an eye toward getting their appeal so they can have strange new respect for this man who has grown so in the office? Because they said that they write history. Why wouldn't you want to be on their best side? They write history. Or am I nuts?

No, I think that's a compelling argument. I think it's entirely possible. And I do think, I mean, that was one of the reasons I think that Putin would be able to sort of manhandle Trump intellectually that way in the early stages of a Trump presidency. I mean, there are other reasons to be concerned in addition to that. I do think he would seek the approval of the New York Times and others. We know that he reads his press pretty carefully. But combine that with his declaration in advance that he's a dealmaker. So he gets to a Supreme Court nomination. Let's say Trump is president. He's got a marginally Republican Senate, but might need to pick up some Democratic votes. He's a dealmaker. What will his deals be?

We've seen that he's willing to make deals on anything. He doesn't actually have what most of us would regard as core principles. And if you don't have core principles, you're willing to trade things to get what you think will be best for you or your position. Would he be willing to do that on the Supreme Court? I would say he certainly would be at least willing to do that on the Supreme Court? I would say he certainly would be at least willing to do that. Steve, I understand the Weekly Standard has a new office. Is that so? So the next time we have one of those insider cocktail parties where the GOP gets around and

plots the establishment, we do have have new offices. They are not dark and depressing. They're actually quite light and open. And it's just the people in them that are depressed. So Steve, before I let you go, I didn't know, you and your leader, Bill Kristol, you guys sitting around, who's your dream ticket, third-party ticket? Who are you going after? Well, if I can give 30 seconds of sort of qualification, I mean, I do think it would be nice. I go back and forth on the wisdom of this, of a potential third party

bid probably 10 times a day. I think on the one hand, you look around and you say, this is an incredibly volatile electorate. We've seen things happen this cycle that have never happened before. So why should we think that it's crazy? I mean, to have a third party candidate be competitive. I mean, the same people who are telling me that Donald Trump with his, you know, 87% unfavorable with Hispanics and 75 with women and on and on will win the presidency in a walk over Hillary Clinton are telling me that it's crazy to think that a third party candidate could be competitive. I don't necessarily buy that argument. On the other hand, there are some structural problems with a third party candidate. In addition to ballot access deadlines, Texas has

passed, North Carolina is coming up. There are three others in June and a series of them in July. I think you could get past those concerns. You would sue in Texas, sue in North Carolina. But the real question is, where do you win? And is your goal to actually try to be competitive and win 270 electoral votes? Or is your goal to try to keep any other candidate from getting 270, throwing the election to the House. I think it'd be very hard to get 270 for sure if the field is arrayed as we think it might be today. If you've got a third-party candidate, you could keep potentially the other candidates from getting below 270 and throwing it to the House. And there's always the possibility of a fourth candidate coming in. Bernie Sanders certainly has a lot of momentum. Maybe he doesn't want to just leave that on the side. I don't, in terms of a candidate, you know, I don't have a particular candidate. I think it

would be nice if there were somebody who can articulate a principled sort of outsider conservatism. The kind of sort of common sense, I hate to, this sounds like a cliched phrase, but the kind of common sense conservatism that would appeal potentially to people in, you know, my folks in Wisconsin, people throughout the country who are not necessarily ideological, but would find this appealing and would find it appealing to have somebody who is neither sort of unstable or unhinged nor an inveterate liar

who's the avatar of the establishment. Where are you going to find somebody like that, Steve? Come on. Ross Perot. Open it up. Take a look. Fix it. Get your hat out of the clouds. Then he would quit and accuse George H.W. Bush of meddling in his daughter's wedding. I think it's a tall order. I think there are a couple people who are thinking about it.

I think Ben Sasse, despite his public protest that he doesn't want to do it, if you read his Facebook post, suggested that he wants somebody to do it. I think he would have to be at least thinking about it. Tom Coburn's name has been mentioned now a few times. suggested that he wants somebody to do it. I think he would have to be at least thinking about it. Tom Coburn's name has been mentioned now a few times. He would be interesting in that he's certainly a conservative, but he would have sort of a cross-party appeal in that he was on Simpson-Bowles and has made arguments about debt and deficit reduction that are regarded by the serious furrowed brows of the New York Times as serious arguments. Well, I think it's going to be like the end of Middle Way through iClaudius, the television show.

There'll be massive bloodletting. All the good candidates will be dead. The Praetorian Guard will go to the offices of the Weekly Standard and find Bill Kristol behind the curtain and say, you know, Caesar, Caesar. Yeah, he better have his pants on then. Exactly. Hey, thanks, Steve. Thanks, Steve. Absolutely. Thanks, guys, for having me.

Certainly. You guys ever watch High Colonius? Oh, yeah. Remember that? It's a wonderful, wonderful show. One of the things, if you love Roman history and Roman culture, it reminds you that nowadays we think it's normal to eat, you know eat sitting in a chair, right? In the old days, everybody ate the good dinner lying down, reclining, propping up on one elbow as they ate larks' brains and peeled grapes.

Well, that's how I do it. I'm sure you do. Will you sit up at a table? Like, oh, good lord. Who peels your grapes, James? Well, that's not the question. Since you do do that, Rob, and since you're probably instrumental in bringing that back. I wish I could be more comfortable lying down. I just don't know how to do it.

I mean, I'm just so dissatisfied with my lying down choices. But go ahead. It's just so obvious you don't have a Casper. Casper, if you're Roman, can make your dining better. If you're like most of us, it'll make your sleeping better. You know about Casper. They're the online retailer of premium mattresses for just a fraction of the price. Now, the mattress industry has inherently forced you consumers into paying notoriously high prices and markups. Casper is not doing that. They're cutting the cost of dealing with resellers and showrooms and passing that savings directly to you.

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Weekends to come. Hope you have a plethora of entertainment, be it video, television, theater, sports, and the like. We know that, Peter, you're going off to, theater, sports, and the like. We know that, Peter, you're going off to, I think, mixed martial arts fighting.

Yes, exactly. You're a fan or a participant? I couldn't remember which. I thought I was keeping it secret. And Rob, you're still swanning about in Gotham, is that correct? I'm in Gotham for another week or so, and then I've got to head back to L.A. I've got to get a job, James.

I got to get some projects going. Can't keep doing this. You know what? And speaking of getting a job, if you're listening to this and you're not a member of Ricochet, please become a member of Ricochet. We actually do need your support. Absolutely. Don't let that slip off your to-do list. And trust me, having been in the comments a lot in the last couple of weeks, it gets contentious.

But it's still civil and it's smart. There's good arguments being made. And first of all, if you want to know the arguments of the other side, Ricochet is a great place to start because there will be laid out or there will be links to them and you'll see what people think and feel about the issues of the day. So we thank Ricochet and we, of course, thank Casper Mattresses, The Great Courses, and Betterment.com. Use that coupon code, Ricochet, in all instances. And you might want to drop by the Ricochet store as well. Have a little shirt, a little mug, a little cap. Make Ricochet great again.

I'm sorry, it's already great. Make it better. Join. All right, guys, thanks. We'll see everybody in the comments at Ricochet 2.0. Next week, fellas. Next week. Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends?

Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? I've seen you around for a long, long time. Yeah. I remember you when you drank my wine. Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends?

Why can't we be friends? I sit and walk in Chinatown I call you but you could not look around Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? I pay my money to the welfare line.

I see you standing in it every time. Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? The color of your skin don't matter to me. Ricochet. Join the conversation.

Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? Why can't we be friends? I kinda like to be the president. So I can show you how your money's spent. Why can't we be friends? Sometimes I don't speak right

But yet I know what I'm talking about I can't be befriended