The Ricochet Podcast - Chasing Pokémons

Episode Date: July 15, 2016

This week, Lileks is on vacation so we asked our good friend Larry Kudlow to sit in his chair as we welcome the Manhattan Institute’s and Wall Street Journal columnist Jason Riley to the show to discuss the events of the last week. Yes, we also cover the presumptive nominee, and Larry makes a valiant effort to convince one of the hosts to support his candidate. Was Larry successful? Source

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ever met. One of the things people love about you is you speak your mind and you don't use a politician's filter. However, that is not without its downsides. What Boehner is angry with is the American people holding him accountable. If I become president, oh, do they have problems. They're going to have such problems. That's funny. I don't know why that's funny.

Hello, Peter Robinson here. This is Ricochet Podcast number 311. James Lilacs is on vacation. Sitting in for James will be Larry Kudlow. Joining me and, as always, Rob Long. Our guest will be The Wall Street Journal's Jason Reilly. Let's have ourselves a podcast. Hello and welcome to the Ricochet Podcast.

This is number 311. 311 Ricochet Podcasts. We are coming to you from Ricochet.com, the fastest growing, most interesting, most civil conversation on the center. Ricochet 3.0, I should say, because we've got a brand new site with lots of new features, so check it out. We are brought to you by ZipRecruiter. Find candidates in any city or industry nationwide. Just post once. Watch your qualified candidates roll in to ZipRecruiter's easy-to-use interface.

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For a great shave at an even greater price, go to harrys.com and enter the coupon. And of course, I said, we are brought to you by ricochet.com. I am Rob Long, one of the co-founders of ricos.com and enter the coupon. And of course, I said, we are brought to you by ricochet.com. I am Rob Long, one of the co-founders of ricochet.com. Along the line, on the line with me from Palo Alto, California is Peter Robinson. Peter, how are you?

I'm very well, Rob. All the better for our new Ricochet site that we have just trundled out for public inspection. It's very cool i think and by the way whereas whenever a site updates itself or does a refresh or brings out a new x.0 version as we have done ourselves once before people always say it's just naturalist no no no i like the old one better bring it back and that is not happening this time i think i i saw and heard a total of two and a half complaints. The half complaint sort of liked it but there was one little feature. But that's out of thousands of people and hundreds of comments saying this is pretty cool.

It's working well. This is an improvement. Remarkable. It's a little bit more social, a little bit more connectivity-minded. You can start your own groups. You can do a lot more stuff. The idea is that if you – there's also the idea behind Ricochet that if you really want to have a conversation between and among people in the center-right, it's easier to do it when you know – well, it's easier to do it when it's not on Facebook, put it that way.

But we are about to have one of those civil conversations between and among the center right with our old friend who's sitting in the James Lilacs chair. That's a small chair. It's a big chair to fill. He's a slender man. But I would like to introduce our old friend all the way from New York City, Larry Kudlow. Larry, how are you? I'm well, thank you. Thanks for having me. Appreciate it. Loved you stumbling through that opening. Excellent. Yeah. I'm not a professional, Larry. I just kind of – this podcast is supposed to sound real. I can help you with some TV training. I don't know. Podcast. We'll have to see. The whole idea is transparency. We're trying to make it seem like what it is, which is sort of a conversation.

You have succeeded. Thank you, sir. Now, you're in New York. I am. What's the – well, we should just get right into it because we were off last week. So we didn't have a chance to talk about the 4th of July present. I didn't really know we were exchanging gifts on 4th of July, but FBI Director James Comey gave a fantastic gift to Hillary Clinton. And I sort of expected – I kind of expected him – I mean I don't know why. In my fantasy, I thought there would be – it would be more lingering, but I guess I should have predicted this.

Right, Peter? More lingering. What? The effects of the non-indictment? The effects of the non-indictment on her – on even her supporters because it really did seem like a – except for the non-indictment part, a fairly ferocious bill of particulars. So we could talk about James Comey and whether he did the right thing or not because what he did was in public go through particular by particular by particular where she was – I think the term – she wasn't grossly negligent. She was – grossly negligent is the legal term that he bent himself into the shape of

a pretzel to say the same thing but not use those words and it was clear that she had told lie after lie. He contradicted her account on point after point and got it all the way up to, and yet we're not going to indict her. As if to say, look, she's running for president. You want her, you indict her. You indict her at the ballot box. And the effect, while we could disagree perhaps about whether this is the effect of what took place last week, but something has happened. Donald Trump has just had the best polling week head to head against Hillary Clinton in the campaign so far. Rasmussen reports, Rasmussen reports,

granted, tends often to favor Republicans in its results. Nevertheless, this is an unambiguous result. We have Rasmussen reports out this morning. Trump, 44 percent. Clinton, 37 percent. That is Donald Trump having spent almost no money seven points ahead of a woman who has been running for president for 20 years, had all the unions behind her, had the Democratic Party behind her, had money behind her, had the press behind her. Donald Trump is seven points up. Larry? Well, look, yes, all that is true. Rasmussen is not a bad poll. You got to look at all the polls together. But it is interesting. The New York Times poll shows the same thing. They're now even. Hillary was way ahead, so she's dropped there. The Q poll, Quinnipiac poll, which is a highly regarded poll, also shows the same results.

And by the way, the Q poll shows that Republican Senate candidates in marginal states are doing very well across the board. And I think coming back to your initial point about Mr. Comey and so forth, look, he didn't indict her for sure, but he did everything but. The whole thing is around extremely careless. And as Peter mentioned, he went through a laundry list of items where her statements were at loggerheads with the truth. And that was a killer. And I always thought it'd be a killer. I felt that it would really hurt her in the polls. And it has. I didn't think it would help Trump in the polls.

I think other things are helping Trump in the polls. But she went down. The other one is this whole, you know, horrible shooting tragedies with the police. I mean, Hillary is now basically forced to take defense of Black Lives Matter. She's calling the cops racist. She's not defending the blue line in any way, shape or form. I think that's killing her. Trump came out of the box very fast on this, defending the cops, talking about being the candidate of law and order. Public safety is now going to be a huge, huge, huge issue,

as it should be. She's in deep trouble on this. Trump is all over it. And in my opinion, right now, Hillary Clinton is a stock looking for a bottom. That's good. All right. Well, I mean, I mean, I think we all know my position here on Trump. But I mean, and I know I've forgotten it's two weeks, Rob. What is your position? It's the same. It's the same. It's always been a queasy feeling deep in my the pit of my stomach. But just to be fair here, it was a bad week for Hillary Clinton, but it didn't seem to be. I mean, I know these polls you guys love. Let's hold on.

There are a lot of polls that show the opposite. Don't you think it was a sign of that kind of flat-footed campaign he's running that he spent the week that she was all but indicted by the FBI director defending a tweet and attacking Ruth Bader Ginsburg? Wait. That's another one. We didn't even include Ruth Bader Ginsburg? Wait, that's another one. We didn't even include Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Are you kidding me? Ruth Bader Ginsburg is on the Trump payroll. I mean, look what she did.

I guess I saw someplace this morning she's actually saying I shouldn't have said that. But I mean, this is left-wing wacko stuff from an elderly judge. I'm sorry about this because, you know, I think down through the years, she's served the court very well. I don't agree with her, but she's served the court well. But putting that aside, now she has basically reminded everybody of the whole issue of Supreme Court nominees and appointees. And, you know, Trump has that list, a conservative

list of whatever he's got, nine or 10 names, which has been very well received among conservatives in the Republican Party and independents. So that's back on the table. She's in trouble. Trump's business about the star, I mean, Abe Foxman of the Jewish Anti-Defamation League said there was no racial slur or religious slur regarding that. That's just media hype. The basic bread and butter stuff coming out here is law and order with the police. She basically lied throughout the personal server hearings and the polls are picking this up. I don't think the polls have yet picked up the full flavor of Black Lives Matter. I think this is coming as the public ingests what Hillary has been saying. Look, people know that cops aren't perfect. Okay? They get that. They also know, as Trump said, that cops are our last line of defense to protect civilization.

And if you take a broad-based poll, you will see cops come out ahead every single time. She is on the wrong side of that issue, guys. And she's flipping the security issue. And here's what I mean by that. I'd like to hear if even rob agrees i must be right about it but or maybe just sign you're in trouble flipping the security issue in the following sense as i've read it it's felt this way to me over the last three weeks or so the strongest argument an argument that was really kind of coalescing and i thought had real

power against donald was, okay, okay, okay, maybe he can pull his campaign together and begin to run a genuine presidential campaign, straighten out his positions on the issues, do things that make him look presidential. But it's too late to make people feel at ease with him when it comes to the defense of the nation. The whole nuclear button question, Hillary Clinton, dislike her though you may. She's a stable person. She understands foreign policy.

The country will be safe. She's not going to hit the nuclear button in an active peak. And Donald Trump, who knows? But look at what has happened. We've been thinking about the security, the safety of the nation as regards foreign threats. But now look what has happened. We've been thinking about the security, the safety of the nation as regards foreign threats. But now look what has happened. The safety of the nation is now a question of our own cops. What happens here at home?

And she has placed her side, herself, on the side of disorder. And Donald Trump, who did two things. One was to take a solid position, understand the political dynamics here and place himself on the position of law and order and on the side of the cops immediately, but also recorded a video. You can find it on YouTube, shot up in his office in Manhattan with Manhattan in the background. That was very well written beautifully dignified you don't get any sense of heat you don't get any sense of donald appearing unreasonable or unstable she looked that way this past week and he looks like the calm one the wonder the one who understands what you have to do to ensure the safety of the nation and that i stick up for the police i think that's delusional the idea that donald trump looks like the calm one in any exchange is uh is is ultimately going to be his

problem um you know these little blips notwithstanding that is an issue for this guy look hillary clinton's a terrible candidate and she's horrible and she should have been indicted and probably she should be wearing a you door opener-sized ankle bracelets under house arrest. That's – and it would be strange to think that even if she wins, that she has a security clearance. Anyone else in that position would have had that security clearance revoked. I was trying to imagine what it would be like to give her a presidential daily briefing when you were unable to tell her – to actually breach security? You'd have to like explain it to her in charade style so that nobody was giving secrets away. Rob, look what's happening though.

I mean all these measurements you're using, which are fair enough. I understand that. I understand Mr. Trump has, shall we say, an up and down history. But Trump is coming off right now as the measured guy. And Hillary is coming off as the pillar to post person. And she is scrambling. I think Peter's exactly right. And the news coming out with respect to the private Internet server, with respect to her response to the ghastly shootings going on, makes her look terrible. And she has no clear view. And her instincts seem very wrong. I want to stay with this law and order issue for just for another moment. The police in the United States,

as I said earlier, are not perfect, but the public backs them by and large. They understand, as the police chief of Dallas said, wonderful guy. When it comes to seeking fertility treatment, time can be of the essence. At Beacon Care Fertility, we are proud to offer prompt access to affordable fertility care. With over 60,000 babies born across our fertility clinic network, we have both the science and the expertise to deliver. We offer convenient payment plans and are partnered with VHI and LEIA. Beacon Care Fertility, where science meets life. You know, the public asks too much of us sometimes. I think they understand that. Hillary has shown no sympathy for

their position, none. And I think it's really very damaging. And I think President Obama tried to be even-handed and measured when he spoke in Dallas, but it didn't come out that way. It didn't come out that way. It didn't come out as somebody who was backing the cops. And I think he has put Hillary in a terrible position. She is, in effect, Rob, think about this. She is, in effect, inheriting his defense of Black Lives Matter. That's the position she is in. I guess she's angling for the African-American vote, which she's probably going to get 93 percent of anyway.

So I just think she's in a bad spot with respect to blue-collar Democrats and independents. And I think that showing up in the polls, and as I said earlier, I really do think she's a stock looking for a bottom. I don't think this law and order issue has fully yet impacted the public consciousness, but as it does, it's going to do more damage to her. By the way, just in case, if I may cast my own vote, Rob says Peter, you're delusional. Larry says Peter, you're exactly right. Hmm, I choose Larry.

Well, that's fair. That's probably wise, although – I mean it remains to be seen, guys. I am not – as you know, I am not an optimist about trump's either ability to win in november i'm a pessimist on that and i'm not an optimist about his ability to uh even muster a campaign that's not cringing cringe worthy i should say i understand that i understand that right and believe me i'm not trying to talk you out of anything i respect i'm i'm just saying though look mr trump look i've been involved in this

thing to some extent mr trump's convention speech is going to be without question the most important speech of his life and probably of the entire campaign and he has to i acknowledge this to you by the way this is a concession he's got to show folks watching, God knows there may be a hundred million people watching, that he can do the job. This is a column I wrote many months ago. Now, is he going to convince everybody? No. But I think you will see a Trump with a much firmer, clearer, coherent grasp of a number of key issues regarding economic growth, regarding law and order, regarding national security. You're going to see a very sharp Trump. It'll be a teleprompter speech. But the run-up to this, Rob, this is what I'm asking you to just reconsider. He's been giving these teleprompter speeches, and when he gives them, he gives them well, and the policy content is pretty good.

Now, I know he steps on his lines. I know if I could, I would take the Twitter away from him and probably give it to his son-in-law, but I don't have that kind of power. But nonetheless, I think they're preparing for a very solid speech. If they don't get a solid speech, Rob Long, then I think your criticisms and worries will be borne out. It's a lot to lay on one speech, but I – listen, I'll be listening along with – I think you're right. It will be probably one of the most watched political speeches in modern American history.

But I want to get back to Black Lives Matter and I want to get back to it in a minute. Before I do that, I want to remind everyone that we've been telling you about the Great Courses Plus for a while now. A lot of you have signed up for this great video learning service. Now you have unlimited access to over 7,000 fascinating video lectures taught by award-winning professors. So if you haven't signed up for the Great Courses Plus yet, now is the perfect time. Great Courses Plus featured course this week is How Conversation Works. I don't know if you've seen this one. I actually was looking at it late one night on my drive across the country.

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Thank you. And we thank them for their support. I'd like to go... I know we were talking about Black Lives Matter, and I know we got some stuff else we want to talk about, but we have a fantastic writer on the line, a guy who's been here before, Jason Riley. He's a Manhattan Institute's senior fellow, Wall Street Journal contributor.

He's the author of just a terrific book called Please Stop Helping Us, How Liberals Make It Harder for Blacks to Succeed. Welcome, Jason. Thanks for joining us. Thank you. Hey, Jason. It's Rob Long in LA. I've got a – I just don't want to throw out a first question here. How bad was Obama's funeral speech in Dallas?

Let's just see one. Well, my problem with the speech is that we've heard it all before. Much of the same. And I've heard enough from him on this subject I don't think he's helping matters I think he's equivocating I think he's talking out of both sides

of his mouth we've heard the same things after the Ferguson riots and after the Baltimore riots gotta respect the police they have a tough job but you also have to empathize with the protesters and the Black Lives Matter movement types, who I think have been so irresponsible in their rhetoric

and their emphasis that they've created the environment that led to what happened in Dallas. And I think the president consistently winking at them and equivocating in terms of sympathizing with the police and sympathizing with the protesters has not helped matters. Jason, Peter Robinson here. To what extent is Jason Riley a lone voice and to what extent do leaders, perhaps leaders we haven't heard of, but pastors or business leaders, local leaders at least, among African-Americans agree with you. This is getting out of hand. Black-on-black violence is the worst danger to African Americans, not white-on-black violence. And the president of the United States is playing politics with this

to drive up black turnout at the polls in November. Is there anybody who looks at it that way? Oh, I think a lot of people look at it that way. A lot of blacks look at it that way. It's just that the media tends to run to the same folks every time we get these situations, the NAACP types, the Al Sharptons, the Jesse Jacksons. I saw Jesse Jackson on Fox News last weekend, of all places. I mean, why anyone wants to hear from

jesse jackson on this subject after all these years of his irresponsible talk i don't know but but even the conservative media has been running to the same folks uh... to get their their insights on this so it gives the impression that um... uh... that that is the black viewpoint out there but if you go into these But if you go into these communities, if you go into Chicago or Detroit or New York, you can talk to community leaders, community organizers who understand that the problem is what you just cited.

My colleague, Heather MacDonald, had an excellent piece in the Wall Street Journal recently where she said there have been about 2,100 shootings in Chicago already this year. Nine of them have been perpetrated by cops. Nine out of close to 2,100. Yet we have a whole Black Lives Matter movement premised on this false notion that there is an epidemic of racist police hunting black people. And can I just – Go ahead, Larry. My friend Jason Raleigh, with whom I fully agree on these things.

Heather McDonald's work, by the way, is just so exemplary. I had her on the radio this weekend. Yes. I had her on the radio this weekend. And she has, you know, Jace, she's got so many good numbers of studies by, you know, good universities, including Harvard and Yale, that show that the so-called, you know, police racism does not exist, that their instincts are very good, not very bad. And I want to add to that, Jason, something we've talked about, you and me, down through the years, and Naomi and Heather MacDonald, and that is this whole business of family breakup inside, I hate to say it, but it's inside the black community. Family breakup is humongous. Now, it's also a white problem as well as a black problem. But you go back to Martin Luther King, who was one of my heroes, who said we should not be judged by the color of our skin but by the content of our character.

If you have all these fatherless homes, who is going to advise these youngsters what the content of their character should be, how to make good decisions, not bad decisions, how to respect and work with the police, not be hostile to the police. And for that matter, how to run their lives, go to school, get an education, and climb the ladder of success. This is such a gigantic issue, this family breakup issue. It is part and parcel, and the police can't solve that alone. Ministers can solve it. Civic leaders can solve it. Politicians could solve it if they would talk about it, but very few do. To me, these are underlying causes of this problem that are not being addressed.

You're right. You're absolutely right, Larry. I believe the black police chief in Dallas said as much. Yes. He said we're asking way too much. Yes. Of police, that you cannot scapegoat the police for the social pathology that you just described, the breakdown of the family, attitudes in these communities towards police, towards parenting, towards school.

Yes, these are all contributing factors. And you're right, the left does not want to talk about it. They want to push for the narrative that the police are being motivated by racial adam not the behavior of prospect and it is it is you know i can be tension between the black community

and the police are not going to diminish so long at the violent crime rate and the community remain happened hot as high as it is. Blacks are committing violent crimes at seven to ten times the rates of whites. Until that changes, you are going to have tensions between black communities and the police. It doesn't matter if the police are wearing body cameras. It doesn't matter how many blacks and whites and Asians are in the police department.

It does't matter how many blacks and whites and Asians are in the police department. It does not matter. It is this violent crime rate that is driving these tensions, but the left does not want to talk about it. The Washington Post had a story last week, big, big, long investigative piece talking about breaking down police shootings by race. But nowhere in this story was crime broken down by race. You cannot talk about one without talking about the other. If you do, you're pushing a political agenda. But that is what the left does. They do not want to talk about the black crime rate that is driving all of this. They just want to talk about the police.

Jason Peter here. May I ask, if the question in its nature strikes you as crude, just slap me. But the question is a political question. I think back to Mrs. Reagan's funeral, which was at the beginning of the summer, and I found myself chatting as we were waiting for the funeral to begin with Newt Gingrich. And Newt Gingrich said that one reason he found the prospect of a Trump candidacy appealing was that Trump had a chance to be heard by African Americans. We all know the phenomenon because we do it ourselves. In our own lives, there are certain kinds of people that you just turn off. You don't even listen to. And Newt's argument was that at this stage, Republican presidential candidates, by and large, don't even get listened to.

They're not heard. They can't break through to African Americans. And his view was that Donald Trump could. And Newt said, imagine if Donald Trump were simply to show up on the south side of Chicago and hold an impromptu press conference and say, listen, I'm running for president because so much needs to change in this country. And I want you to know that here are the things that are on the list, that you have to live in neighborhoods that are dangerous day to day and watch friends and neighbors getting killed in the streets. That needs to change, that you're stuck in the worst schools. You live in a great city, but you're stuck in the worst schools.

That needs to change. And down the list, demonstrating that one of the structures, so to speak, that Donald Trump wants to break up is the structure, the social structure, the school system, the be small. The proportion of African-Americans supporting the Republican candidate would still be small. But it would do a lot of good for the country if Donald Trump could perhaps double African-American support for a Republican presidential nominee. Because then that would put – that would – once again, both parties would begin competing for African-Americans. They would not be written off by Republicans and taken granted by Democrats. Is that, I can anticipate Rob's comment. Rob's going to say that's delusional. What does Jason have to say? When it comes to seeking fertility treatment, time can be of the essence.

At Beacon Care Fertility, we are proud to offer prompt access to affordable fertility care. Thank you. convenient payment plans and are partnered with VHI and Leia. Beacon Care Fertility, where science meets life. I think that, I'll say two things about that. I do think that Trump has the potential to do better than most Republican candidates with blacks. His show was very popular with blacks. I think that in many black communities, particularly poor black communities, his success as a businessman is really, really admired. The left likes to play the class warfare game, particularly with blacks. But if you go into black communities, you don't find people stewing over the success of Bill Gates or Steve Jobs or the Rockefeller family. They see themselves, they're strivers.

I mean, they think, that could be me one day. And they envy those guys, but they respect them tremendously. And I think they would put Trump in that category. One of the most popular rap labels in America was once called Rockefeller Records. That's right. Just to give you an idea of the type of respect that people in the black community have for successful Americans. So I think Trump would have that going for him. But the problem here, Peter, is that I have not heard Donald Trump espousing the issues that you just did when it comes to education.

Right. Thank you. Thank you, Jason, for reminding me. He is not. I mean, he is not. Is he out there talking about school choice? I mean, is he? This guy is going to raise the minimum wage. Last time I checked. No, no.

That's not going to help for blacks. He won't do that. He won't do that. They're going to fight him out of jobs. No, but he won't. That's not going to help economic growth in this country, which is what blacks need. He's going to play immigrants, particularly low-skill immigrants, against blacks. He's going to play that game. I don't see Donald Trump espousing the type of policies that blacks need in this country to move forward.

That's my problem with Donald Trump. Well, can I just weigh in? I mean, Jason and I agree on most things and we we disagree on some things. But look, I accept your point that Donald Trump has not yet reached out in a meaningful way messaging how he can help this. I'll call it a crisis in the black communities with the police, but also just a generic crisis. There are a lot of us, Jason, who are working very hard to get this stuff into the convention speech. And the reception to our views, you know, there's a Jack Kemp group of us who are helping here. So far, the reception to our views has been quite good. I can't make

any promises, but I'm just saying the discussion is hot and heavy. On some of the other things you mentioned, Jace, look, Donald Trump has a very strong pro-growth platform. And I think it's people have not been fair in recognizing the guy is shooting for the largest tax cut package since the Reagan years across the board, large and small businesses, individuals, everything. He also has a very strong package of rolling back regulations, which will be unveiled at the convention. And I think the lack of economic growth damages all of us, no matter where we are. Growth is just so essential in creating opportunities. I agree, Larry. I agree.

But economic protectionism contradicts his promise of economic growth. I think it's better off talking about taxes and regulations and monetary policy. That's the real cause of our economic malaise today. He's talking about trade protectionism. No, no, no. I want to try to balance this view, Jason. I think you are correct. At the outset of his campaign, he very loosely talked about 45% tariffs on China and other countries,

even at one point exclaiming that he's not worried about trade wars. Those were huge mistakes, huge. I'm the first guy to acknowledge it. On the other hand now, as calmer heads have prevailed and some, pardon the phrase, experts have moved into the operation. Here's what his message is. And he's been pretty consistent since his trade speech over a month ago. And this is what's going to be in his convention speech. Trump said to the Republican conference last week where he spoke, GOP conference in the House and the Senate. I introduced him in the House. He said, look, I am for trade. I understand the

benefits of trade, but I also believe we have to enforce the rules on trade. That is his position. And a free trader like myself and a free trader like Paul Ryan, he and I agree with Trump on this. Ryan has said so publicly. Ryan said so at that meeting. So he has clarified his position. He is not predominantly a protectionist. He wants China to play by the rules. As by the way, Jace, really, Reagan did this. W did this. Clinton did this. If an industry or a company continues to break the rules, temporary targeted tariffs have always been a response. And by the way, it's a legal response. Now, if you say to me Trump's early speeches did not lay this out well, I would agree.

I absolutely agree. But that is not the thrust of his real thinking. He's a political rookie. He said a lot of things that all of us wish, including him, he had not said. And I think the same thing is true on immigration. I mean, I don't want to filibuster you. That's not my intent. But let me just be quick. Trump said to the Republican House last Thursday, I was with him. He said, I am for immigration. I am for legal immigration. He also is for skills based immigration rather than family for immigration. I am for legal immigration. He also is for skills-based immigration rather than family-based immigration. But he is insistent on border security. He has fortunately given up, left out now. He does not want house-to-house deportation. He has come out finally against that. Maybe I had something to do with it, maybe I didn't, but it's been a talking point with us. And he also believes the sanctuary

cities have to be abolished, and furthermore, immigration has to be legalized in order to help America grow. Now, I know that message has not been clear. I understand that. But I'm giving you a little bit of explication to text because here's what he's saying now. And he's been saying it for a bunch of weeks. He's not going to change. He's now back on track and back on message. So I think a lot of criticisms are fair, Jason, but they're dated.

And I think he's really come up with a much more positive program. Well, you can say they're dated, Larry, but in the last two days, the stories have come out about what the new Republican platform looks like. I know that's a largely meaningless document, but it does give us some idea of the party's thinking on these issues. There's a wall in the Republican platform now. A wall, literally. Therefore, a wall walling off the southern border.

There's also new anti-trade language in the Republican platform. So you can say he's backed off this stuff. I say he's been pulling the Republican Party his way on these issues. Now, again, I know the Republican platform does not mean much in practice, but it tells me that the party is moving his way, not the other way around. But listen, it's terrible. No, but let me let me just add to that. OK, I don't like some of that language either. I don't I don't think it's very important.

But you're right. I concede the point. I guess what I'm trying to say is the Republican Party, Jason, has been turning against you and me and Ryan and Paul Gigo and the editorial page. We are free traders. The Republican Party has been moving against that for years. And unfortunately, the Democrats are moving against that for years. So we have an important task in front of us to persuade the nation of the benefits, the benefits, which are enormous, of free and open trading.

I agree with that. That's our job. It isn't just about Trump. The whole momentum, you know this, the pendulum's been swinging against us for years. So we're going to have to keep up that fight. The problem is Trump knows this too, which is why his clothing line is manufactured in China,

which is why he hires workers at his resort from Mexico. He knows it helps him thrive, and we know it's helped the country thrive. But that's my problem with Donald Trump. You know, he does one thing and does something else. I think he knows the benefits of free trade. I think he's pandering. I think this is economic populism

that he thinks will help him win, even if it doesn't help the country. It certainly doesn't help a country in the dire economic straits that we're in right now, a trade war is the last thing we need right now. I agree. Jason, I wish you had been on the beginning of the call because I was going to say all that stuff, and then I didn't. It's early in California right now, so it takes a little less. So I will give you this.

I think Trump is right on Black Lives Matter. I think he's absolutely right on that. I think he's right to stand with the police. And that is something that will help the black community. The problem with the Black Lives Matter movement at the end of the day is that it will lead to less effective policing of these communities. And that is not what these communities need. They're the ones who need quick responses to the 9-11 calls.

They need effective, proactive policing because it's very hard to improve your circumstances in these communities because they are so lawless. And we know that the criminals prey on other blacks, other poor blacks in their neighborhoods. Those are the primary victims, and those are the people who need effective policing. The Black Lives Matter movement is not helping that effort. Jason, I couldn't agree with you more, and I just was going to go back quickly to Dallas Police Chief David Brown, who spoke eloquently about this and was moving and was sort of a celebrity on Twitter for about three days. And it just struck me that one of the – a symptom of the tragedy is that David Brown was an unknown in the African-American community before Dallas. He's not known as a national leader in that world, and he should be. I mean it's not also part of the problem is that the people we hear from are Black Lives Matter celebrities and not David Brown.

Sure, you have that. There's a larger point I think to make about that. After Ferguson, the line on the left was that the blacks in that community, in that city, were stewing. They were oppressed by a white power structure, a mostly white police force, white elected officials, white civil servants, and so forth. Then we get Baltimore, where you have a black mayor and a black police chief and a black city council,

yet you have the same riots and looting we saw in Ferguson. And Dallas looks much more like Baltimore. About 25% of the population in Dallas is black, though it's about 25% of the police force. Yet again, you still have all these tensions between police and these black communities. And if you're me, you go, wow, maybe it's not the racial makeup of the police force that's driving this. And I think, you know, black police chiefs understand that. But you have, again, the political left pushing this notion that it always comes down to race and racism.

Right. I think it is behavior. It is behavior that is driving these tensions, and the left doesn't want to talk about that. But I think Brown gets it. And we've had black political officials, civil servants running many of the large cities, from school superintendents to police chiefs to mayors and so forth. This whole notion that if we only had more blacks in charge, we wouldn't have this problem, I think is belied by that. Some of the most violent cities in America are largely run by black people. Jason, it's been a thrill to have you, and I want to remind everyone the book is Please Stop Helping Us, How Liberals Make It Harder for Blacks to Succeed.

Let's have you on again when we're not talking about something, a fresh tragedy. How about that? Okay. I'd like that. Thank you. Thanks, Jason. Thank you, Jason. Thank you, Jason.

Appreciate it. I don't know if you've read the book. The book is fantastic. It's really – and you know it's good because it got these kind of grudging, sneering, positive reviews in places that you'd expect it to be ignored. Jason's newest project, the project he's working on now, I can hardly wait for. He's working on a biography of Tom Sowell. Oh, wow. Won't that be fantastic? That will be great. That will be great.

I don't do segues, Peter, as you know. So I'm just going to jump right into this. Go. Are you hiring? Do you know where to post your job to find the best candidates? Posting your job in one place isn't enough to find quality candidates. If you want to find the perfect hire, you need to post your job on all the top job sites. And now you can with Z ziprecruiter.com you can post your job to 100 plus job sites including social media networks like facebook and twitter all with a single click

find candidates in any city or industry nationwide just post once and watch your qualified candidates roll in to zip recruiters easy to use interface no juggling emails or calls to your office quickly screen candidates rate them and hire the right person fast. Find out why ZipRecruiter has been used by over 800,000 businesses. And right now, podcast listeners can post jobs on ZipRecruiter for free by going to ZipRecruiter.com slash free trial. That's ZipRecruiter, ZipRecruiter, all one word,.com slash free trial. And you get a free trial with ZipRecruiter. Speaking of ZipRecruiter, Larry, is that a good sign for the economy that there are people trying to make job searching more efficient or job posting more efficient?

Well, I mean the technology breakthroughs is terrific. I mean it makes it a much more efficient labor market, absolutely terrific. The problem with the labor market though is that so many people are dropping out of it. And again, one of the issues here is the absence of economic Gingrich and Clinton and others have been – have unraveled. They've been taken down. Work requirements, eligibility, time limits, that stuff is gone. So what you have is the federal government providing so much more assistance, whether it's welfare or food stamps or disability insurance. There's a whole – what they're called the small entitlements.

They're making it more profitable not to work. And unfortunately, that incentive is damaging uh the whole labor force so the participation rates are very low that's a big issue there uh sorry yeah no larry larry apart from donald trump apart from the current campaign what's your professional evaluation as an economist of the following question in the 80s r, Ronald Reagan got elected, he enacted certain economic policies, and the economy took off pretty fast and continued to grow for a quarter of a century. It wasn't quite like this, but it seems in retrospect, almost like flipping a switch. The recovery took place fast compared to the present day

where we have this feeling. And it's not just a malaise among the public. You can read it. You can read it in Krugman. You can read it in Alan Blinder. You can read it in the editorial pages of any newspaper in the country where even the economics profession is saying, those days are probably over. We've got a new normal now. Even China is showing slower growth. The Reagan growth of 3.8%, 4.2%. I think we got close to 5% one year. It's just not coming back no matter who's president or what policies he enacts.

How do you respond to that? Well, I think – by the way, the Reagan recovery was just under 5 percent for seven and a half years. And look, I think one of the biggest problems here is precisely the economics profession. I mean I've been writing about this. God save us from the PhDs from Ivy League universities. It is most distressing to me. By the way, this is something Trump himself understands. But let's leave Trump out of this.

They're giving bad advice. Now, it's not everybody. Some of them are giving good advice. But the kind of free market supply side reforms that Reagan launched, which by the way, really the progeny for that was John F. Kennedy in the 60s. I have a book coming out on this very subject. Those policies have dissipated and we have now reverted back. It's like a big economic relapse. We need a 12-step program to educate the economists again. They're gone back to big

government spending, whether it's welfare-related spending or whether it's infrastructure spending, which is the latest new elixir for everything. It's not true. They are raising taxes on successful earners. They are not reforming our outdated, uncompetitive business tax laws. They are heaping on regulations. I mean this has been the Obama story. Obama has raised a bunch of taxes, which is hurt, but his regulatory policies are probably the single most damaging thing he's done. And you've got a lot of economists applauding that. That's just nuts.

I mean take a look at what's happened to Europe. Britain is exactly right to pull out of Europe because the EU is hopelessly enmeshed in these big government type policies. They're central planning policies using regulations as the lever. That's got to stop. That's got to change. The Federal Reserve, the Federal Reserve's got to change. Again, God help us from the PhDs. When I was a kid, the first job I had out of Princeton, the first job I had was the New York Fed, okay? And I had great positions there. I actually was Volcker's secretary for a half a year and a speechwriter. So let me just tell you something. You know who sat on the Federal Reserve

Board in Washington? Do you know who ran a lot of the Federal Reserve Banks? Business people, men and women in business, farmers, small community bankers. In other words, people that understood the day-to-day workings of the American economy, what makes it tick and what doesn't. That is gone. Correct me if I'm wrong. Every single Reserve Bank president, there are 12 of them, has a Ph.D. from some bloody place. The Federal Reserve Board is the same. Those kinds of hands-on people, men and women in business and banking, I mean, I don't mean, you know, J.P. Morgan, although I respect Jamie Dimon.

I'm talking about small community banks on Main Street. Where are they in the Fed? They're gone. Where are the farmers and the agriculture people? They're gone. Where are the small businessmen and women? They're gone. This has got to be completely changed. The Federal Reserve operates with these lengthy econometric models with 500, 600, 700 economists backing them up, the models are always wrong. What they've done with interest rates is a travesty. They're paying banks not to lend money. Yes, unbelievable.

It's unbelievable. So when you ask this generic question, that is my basic aggregate overview answer. The economics profession has ill served us for whatever motivation. I don't know. Again, you know, you can find out your way, Peter. You've got some of the best out there. You've got my pal John Taylor. You've got my pal John Cochran.

I know all those guys. Mr. Schultz is coming on my radio show to talk about the new blueprint that Hoover has produced. You've got pockets in the American Enterprise Institute and Cato and Heritage and so forth. But I'm just saying our crowd is now out of power and we've been out of power for many years. And I want to change. And I give Trump credit. I hope he follows through. Trump wants to break down the establishment. One of the things he's got to break down is the bloody economic establishment. They are leading us astray and causing great harm to this country. Hey, if that's in the speech, that's in the speech, man. Well, are you about to say if that's in the speech, even I, Rob Long, might support Donald Trump?

Are those the words that you're having so much trouble? I did not go that far. I did not go that far. But actually what that made me think is that who I really want to – I'll tell you who I really want to vote for president is Larry Kudlow. Oh, of course. Yeah, OK. So I agree with that. We're at the top of the hour now and we got to run.

But I do want to say thank you to Larry for sitting in, for James Lilacs. And I hope you do it a million times. It's great. You guys are great. I love you. And producer Scott Emmerich. I just want to say this, Rob. I feel like the Dallas police chief, Mr. David Brown.

You may be asking too much of me. I don't think so. I don't think so. You can multitask. You don't think so. I don't think so. You can multitask. You don't have to give up the stuff you do. You can still – you can probably put in four hours a day in that Oval Office and get it done efficiently. Because apparently the first plank in your platform is fire all the experts, which is – Don't you love that?

Do you know what? I actually believe it. Me too. Well, thanks to Larry for joining us. Thank you, Peter, for joining us. Remember, this podcast is brought to you by the great courses, Harry's and ZipRecruiter.com. Visit the Ricochet store. Lots of great Ricochet swag in there.

We're doing this for the first time. If you enjoy the show, just take a minute to leave a review on iTunes. That kind of helps people find us. Um, if, uh, we're doing this for the first time. If you enjoy the show, just take a minute to leave a review on iTunes. Um, that kind of helps people find us. Um, see in the comments, everybody. And,

next week, Peter, next week, Larry. Thanks. That was great. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. Bye. There's too many of you crying Brother, brother, brother There's far too many of you dying You know we've got to find a way To bring some loving here today Father, father To bring some loving here today. Father, Father, we don't need to escalate. You see, war is not the answer.

For only love can help hate. You know we've got to find a way to bring some love and give to the day. Picket line and picket sign. Don't punish me with brutality. Talk to me so you can see oh what's going on what's going on yeah what's going on

oh what's going on oh right on ricochet join the conversation. But you keep More than love Everybody thinks we're at war Oh, but who would they judge us Simply cause our hair is long

Oh, you know. Oh, oh, oh. Picket line. And picket sign. Don't punish me. Earth brutality. Come on, talk to me you can see what's going on

yeah what's going on tell me what's going on I'll tell you what's going on but I'm trying to figure out how we get them to have Pokemon go to the polls