The Ricochet Podcast - CPAC #13: Dan Bongino

Episode Date: February 28, 2015

Jim Geraghty interviews Daniel Bongino, the former United States Secret Service agent who was the Republican Party nominee for Maryland’s 6th Congressional District in the 2014 elections. He’s also the author of Life Inside the Bubble: Why a Top-Ranked Secret Service Agent Walked Away from It All... Source

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Over 18s only. Security and insurance is required. Permanent TSB PLC trading as PTSP is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. This is Jim Garrity with the National Review Ricochet podcast from CPAC. We are joined by Dan Bongino, the former congressional candidate, former U.S. Secret Service agent, and author of the now two-time bestseller, Life Inside the Bubble. I say that to you, congratulations to you with great passion and more than a little bit of envy.

Thank you very much. So a lot to cover. One of the first things that comes to mind, the book being a second-time bestseller, by any chance is about the Secret Service being in the news again, being terrible for the country but maybe very good for you and your book sales? Yeah, every time someone Googles Secret Service, my name and book comes up. So, you know, the drone flies over the fence, I sell 10,000 copies. Totally unintentional, but you're right.

We're all free market. It's almost like you've got an incentive to fly something over the White House. It could work, right? So, as we say, there are certain parts of government we come to expect incompetence from. We're coming to see, you know, or disappointing performances from. Healthcare.gov, when the IRS makes terrible mistakes, we're not surprised. But the U.S. Secret Service has always had this,-mythic image in Americans' eyes, known for being very competent, having this unbelievable responsibility. And then it's just one story after another. As a former Secret Service agent and a guy

who knows it from the inside and out, this is all after you've left, right? None of this can be pinned on you. So what's happening over there? How can something like the culture of the organization change pretty dramatically? You know, it did. And it was really a byproduct of this bureaucratic virus that's infected the government. And, you know, I hate to talk in these flowery terms. I like to get down to the meat and potatoes. Here's what really happened. There was a small, almost cabal of Secret Service managers that had grown up within the organization.

Nice men and women. It's not personal. But they'd almost become immune to the mistakes. It's like loud noise, as we're hearing at CPAC. Eventually, you just get used to it. And the mistakes, which were obvious, became like, oh, well, that's just the way we've always done it. The Secret Service desperately needed new flesh and blood there. It was never, Jim, and this is important, it was never a problem with the rank and file.

I spent 12 years there in 30 countries. The men and women I work with there, and I've been in a lot of different lines of work, were by far the most dedicated blood and guts people I've ever seen. The management really screwed it up, and it got to the point where you never wanted to be, quote, that guy. In other words, if you complained about the fence, you mean, you think the Secret Service agents didn't know the fence was inadequate? They're like, hey, listen, don't be that guy. Keep quiet. We've always done it this way. So now that they've changed, I see a good future ahead. I was going to say, there are a lot of times where we on the right would say, ah, you know, that's Obama. He's got

no leadership experience, no management. But you figure he'd have a really good incentive to keep the Secret Service running well, the perfect job job is to protect him and his family. So it's not on him, but is there a sense that maybe, like, is this all an internal issue? Or the people who are above the Secret Service, were they kind of asleep at the switch about this transitioning of the culture there? You know, for as much as I would like to pin this on President Obama, you know, I know you're a straight shooter with this. I have to be fair.

These problems really had very little to do with him. Ironically, most of their problems and issues occurred under the Bush administration decision to move them to the Department of Homeland Security. Now, here's an interesting point that's always missed that I try to get out to anyone who will listen. When we were in Treasury, the Secret Service, there was very little incentive for upper management to, let's just say, kiss up to Treasury officials. I mean, what were you going to do, be a black shoals trader afterwards? You know, you were a security professional. So there was no, you didn't need a post-retirement job. When we moved into the

Department of Homeland Security, you saw these kind of incestual relationships where you weren't making decisions for the Secret Service. You were making them for that six-figure salary afterwards, aligning yourself with, let's say, DHS officials, that really filtered down and the rank and file felt abandoned. So for as much as I'd like to say, oh, the president did it, it's just not true. I know I've seen you at a bunch of these CPACs, correct? Yeah, yeah, 10 years now. Is the mood different this year than previous years? Yeah, it certainly is.

You know, I said that before in 2012, I was sure, Mitt Romney, I lost a lot of state dinners on that loss. But here's the difference. You know, we did not have a that before in 2012. I was sure, Mitt Romney, I lost a lot of state dinners on that loss. But here's the difference. You know, we did not have a strong field in 2012. I don't think that's a big secret. Now we have a very strong field. And having run twice, one time, frankly, getting blown out in the U.S. Senate race, the second time nearly pulling off the biggest congressional upset in the country,

the benefit to having a really contested primary is you have the libertarian wing, you know, Rand Paul, you have the social conservatives, Huckabee, Santorum, the Establishment wing, and we go through the names left and right. You have Scott Walker getting a little bit of each. These are people who in past elections may not have been out there knocking on the doors, may not have been out there gathering the emails, Jim, this stuff matters. The difference between my Senate campaign, where we got destroyed, and the Congressional campaign, where in a D plus 7 district, we won on election day,

we lost on the absentee count, was we learned, we learned that activism and door knocking matters. If there's one thing your audience, your listening audience, they ever want to run, needs to take in this interview, it's that elections are won on front porches. They're not won on social media. And social media is great. It can be a game changer, but the elections won on the front porch. If you're not knocking on doors, which is happening now, you've already lost. Okay. Obviously, it's very early in the cycle, and very few people are jumping on bandwagons. But out of what you've seen so far, and we've had a bunch of candidates speak,

anybody jump out at you? Anybody be like, ooh, okay, I kind of like what I'm seeing there? Yeah, I'll tell you, I do a lot of radio hosting on one of the stations. I was here, and I heard Carly Fiorina on this morning, and I was very impressed. You know, listen, anybody, how many candidates have you interviewed? Hundreds over the cycles. Who knows? A lot of them tend to sound like politicians. I mean, if you interchange the answers, you wouldn't know who it was. I was very impressed at her extemporaneous ability off the cuff to give really good answers that did not sound like she was selling you a box of air popcorn. And that's a skill that, you know, you really can't teach. So surprise me. Scott Walker, of course, has been surging in the polls.

You always have Senator Cruz out there, Rand Paul. I have some strong libertarian leanings. I've liked a lot of his positions. But I think Carly Fiorina has really opened up a lot of eyes with us. I was going to say, people think of her as a Senate candidate that did not win and probably best remembered for the Demon Sheep ad. I thought you were thinking of Hewlett Packard photocopiers or something. No, there's a lot of experience and substance there.

And I think a lot of people kind of scratch their head like, oh, how could somebody who's never won an office before run for president? Now, whether she ends up becoming the nominee is another story, but there's definitely a political talent there that's not just a matter of figuring out how to best utilize it. And having been an outsider, never having run before I jumped in the political foray, I'm very hesitant. I know with the Obama experience, everybody's been, ah, we need experience. But the difference with President Obama is there was no leadership experience at all.

You can't say that with Carly Fiorina. You can't say that with Rand Paul. You can't say that with Senator Cruz. They've led activist movements. President Obama was a community organizer, self-declared. It's not a pejorative. There's a big difference there. Now, your home state is right here in the state of Maryland,

which I would have clearly dismissed as being crab cakes and Democrats for a long time. But now, we have Republican Governor Larry Hogan. One, everyone's still kind of scratching their head. This might be a real kind of prototypical example for Republicans in blue states across the country. One, everyone's still kind of scratching their head. This might be a real kind of prototypical example for Republicans in blue states across the country. One, I mean, how did he win and what should other Republicans take away from that?

Because it wasn't just luck. It was a very well-played, managed campaign against, you know, in a place nobody ever thought he had a chance. Larry Hogan's campaign, and I have gone through these numbers, Jim, you know, six different ways from Sunday. It was genius. Here's what he did. And this is where I think Republican candidates go wrong. We kind of emulated each other's strategies a bit. They make the mistake of thinking the Republican Party has a message problem.

We do not. People don't want to pay higher taxes. People want to pick where their kids go to school. And people want to pick their own health care. It's not a message problem. It's a marketing problem. And when Republican Party candidates say, well, we might hike your taxes, but just a little bit less than a Democrat. You're obviously going to go with the Democrat. That's not what Hogan did. Hogan's

message was clear. He never deviated from the script at all, but never sounded political. He said, if we get an office, we are cutting your taxes, period. Unlike President Obama's, you can keep your health care, but he meant it. And he won in a 3-1 Demna Republican state by four points. I'm in the D.C. area over in northern Virginia, but we get the ads. And I see one after another. We're the only state that taxes the rain. Do you believe it? That's the sort of thing people repeat to their friends and neighbors.

They say, oh, my God, do you believe this? It's funny, but it's illustrative. And I remember thinking, man, I can't help but think that had a factor in that. Because I remember the Democrats thinking, oh, don't worry. Prince George's County is going to come in. Don't worry. Prince George's County is going to come in. It'll illustrative. And I remember thinking, man, that's, you know, I can't help but think that had a factor in that. Because I remember the Democrats thinking, oh, don't worry, Prince George's County is going to come in. Don't worry, Prince George's County is going to come in. It'll be fine. We tax taxes in Maryland. We have piggyback taxes.

It's ridiculous. It worked. So you've run twice. You said not so successful the first time. You came very close the second. Interested in running again? Or you're like, I'm done with that. You know, I hate to give you the stock answer,

but I'm not too sure. I'm writing my second book right now. I'm having a lot of fun with that. I'm writing for a couple of different websites. I do a lot of radio. I enjoy it. I'm not sure. It's got to be the right time.

I have to wonder, and this is a decision most of your listeners have to make for themselves, can you make a bigger difference on the outside or on the inside? So I'm not really sure where that is, but we'll see. Dan Magino, thanks very much for your time. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Thanks a lot. Ricochet. Join the conversation.