The Ricochet Podcast - CPAC #3: Governor Bobby Jindal

Episode Date: February 27, 2015

In our continuing series of podcasts from CPAC, National Review’s Jim Geraghty interviews Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal. Source...

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Starting point is 00:00:26 Innovate, the IT solutions people. This is Jim Garrity with the NationalReview.com Ricochet podcast with our special guest, Louisiana Governor Bobby Jindal, who has just completed his speech on the CPAC stage. We heard the dull roar of applause several times throughout that. So, first of all, this has got to be several. You've been to a bunch of CPACs now. How many now?
Starting point is 00:00:54 Jim, I've come the last few years, so it's at least my third, maybe more than that, but at least my third. What is the mood you've found? I realize, obviously, you're being flooded, Brian, with people, and they're asking all kinds of questions, but I have a theory on the mood of conservatives at this moment, but I want to get your take first. Here's my sense. I see it here at CPAC, which is a great sampling from across the country, but I see it in other places across the entire country, red, blue, purple states.
Starting point is 00:01:17 One, I think there is a mixture, and it seems contradictory, but it's not. There's a great concern with where we are as a country today. And it's not just domestic issues. It's ISIS. It's Iran. And it's not just domestic issues. It's ISIS. It's Iran. But it's also Obamacare. It's also concern about the Republican leadership, what they're going to do, what they're not going to do. But despite that, and there is a real concern, and despite that and the frustration with the president, there's also an optimism.
Starting point is 00:01:39 I think there is a sense that this country is tired of the false promises from the extreme left. They're tired of this president. I think there's a real sense amongst conservatives that we can win in 2016, and we can win with a principled conservative. We don't have to vote against somebody. We've got enough choices. We've got a good deep bench. We can be excited about the future.
Starting point is 00:01:57 So it's both anxiety about where we are today, but also a sense of optimism that hope and change, to borrow some words from the other side, may be around the corner, that things could be getting better sooner rather than later. I would say hope and change is not the most automatic applause line here at CPAC. No, not at all. I purposely use that ironically. I would say that one of the things I think that people elected Republicans or a conservative base, we elected a Republican Senate in 2014, and they had this, okay, now things are going
Starting point is 00:02:22 to get better. We're going to really show those. And it's not necessarily going that way. Obama certainly seems untethered or there are no strings on him anymore. So I kind of want to, you know, is Republicans on Capitol Hill, were they ready for this? Or does it kind of feel like they're playing catch up to this? No, I think that's a great question. I don't think they've been ready at all.
Starting point is 00:02:40 I think there's a disconnect between Republicans on Capitol Hill as well as the voters that put them there, as well as a disconnect between how they're governing and how they campaign. You see them about to wave the white flag of surrender on amnesty, and what I worry about is they're about to wave the white flag of surrender on Obamacare. It's really simple to me. In all the TV ads you saw last year, the most common theme from Republican candidates was, give us the majority and we'll repeal Obamacare. There were no asterisks.
Starting point is 00:03:04 There was no disclaimer language, not the legal caveat saying, we're only going to get rid of the easy parts, not the hard parts. We're only going to do a little bit of it. Now they're beginning to backtrack and say, well, you can't really get rid of all the tax increases, but we're going to get rid of some, so that's better. We've got to replace this with another new entitlement program once we get rid of Obamacare. Well, we're going to count success by how many people have cards, not whether they really have access. I don't remember any candidate in the Republican side saying,
Starting point is 00:03:28 we're going to be for Obamacare-like, we're going to be cheaper Democrats. This election wasn't about getting McConnell, Senator McConnell, a better office. It was about changing the direction of the country fundamentally. It was about electing Republicans that would fight. Now, the president gave a State of the Union speech after the election completely without any reference to what the voters just told him they wanted. He was unbowed.
Starting point is 00:03:48 He was as radically left as he's always been. It was a campaign speech for the next cycle, for the next candidate. It wasn't about governing. I don't like anything of what he's saying and doing to our country, but you've got to respect the fact that he is the most ideologically extremely liberal president we've had, and he's consistent about it. I'd like to see some Republicans in Congress actually do what they said they were going to do, at least fight for our conservative principles.
Starting point is 00:04:10 One final thought on Obamacare. So Hillary Clinton started HillaryCare, started the fight back in the early 90s. It took the left almost 16 years to realize their dream of this government, I would call it takeover of our health care and this interference with our health care system. Conservatives seem to be willing to give up the fight without even trying. We need to repeal all of it. And that means all the tax increases, not another new entitlement program. So I am disappointed, and I think there will be a very big backlash from voters
Starting point is 00:04:34 if the Republicans in Congress don't start doing something with their new majority. Otherwise, voters are going to say, what was the point? DHS funding. Is this our hill to die on? Is this something that's worth shutting the government down, or at least shutting that part of the government down, in order to say, hey, this executive amnesty is just not going to fly? One of the things that Republicans have done over and over in D.C.
Starting point is 00:04:53 is allow the president and Harry Reid, and to a lesser extent Nancy Pelosi, to find the terms of the debate. To me, that's ridiculous. The last time we got caught in this trap, you didn't hear enough Republicans say, well, why would the president shut down the government over following the law? Instead, we've got our leadership saying, well, things like, well, we're not going to shut down the government. We're going to pass a clean bill. It sounds to me almost, it's not a great comparison because I don't mean to insult them this much, but when you hear the president say what he's not going to do, and you know how
Starting point is 00:05:18 he's taking away leverage when he's dealing with our enemies abroad, why are Republicans giving away tools before the fight's really started? I think voters, Republican voters, want them to be able to do three things. It's kind of like being able to walk and chew gum at the same time. We think we can do three things at the same time. They want them to undo this amnesty. It's unconstitutional. It's illegal. It's unpopular. The president purposely did it after the election. He's not a dictator. He's not allowed to do that. He doesn't get to choose which laws he wants to ignore. Secondly, they want this Congress to secure the border once and for all. And third, they want them to continue to let the government to function and operate.
Starting point is 00:05:51 We can do all three of those things. It's not rocket science. There are all kinds of theories up on the Hill. People talk about things like, well, they should get rid of the nuclear, they should push the nuclear option, at least threaten to get rid of the filibuster rules like the Democrats did. People are saying they should use reconciliation or they should go to conference. There are all kinds of tactics, but it seems to me they need to start from the place of saying,
Starting point is 00:06:10 I remember them saying, the candidates saying, if you give us the Senate majority, we'll stop amnesty. We can't do it until we've got the majority. Well, now they've got the majority. It's time to use it to do something. One of the big topics has been the King v. Burwell, the Supreme Court decision, which conceivably, obviously we're still awaiting the arguments and it's a little bit down the road, but conceivably it could end the subsidies for a large number of people who bought it through the federal exchange. And a lot of people kind of argue, cripple Obamacare.
Starting point is 00:06:35 And I've talked to some Republican senators who really aren't eager to see that scenario come down. They kind of don't see themselves being able to get Obama to sign legislation that they would want. They fear Obama might do it through executive order. Perhaps a bit of a pattern there. So, one, any thoughts on the Supreme Court case, whether it will go that way or not? And the second thought is, if it does, what should Republicans and Capitol do? I hope it goes our way. I hope that the justices read what I think is black-letter law and say the law means what it says.
Starting point is 00:07:01 You can't just make things up because you want them to read differently. This is part of the problem when you pass a bill so you can find out what's in it, when you don't have transparent hearings and input and amendments, when you force it on a party line vote. The reality is, is we need to win this case. We should win this case. It will be like the dog catching the car if these Republicans in Congress don't pass their plan today. Don't wait for the Supreme Court ruling. I provided a detailed plan for how do you repeal and replace Obamacare. Even if they don't like my plan, they can pass somebody else's plan. Pass the plan today. Now, there are some stepping out, like Senator Sasse and others that are saying, well, if this does happen, there are ways we can address this problem
Starting point is 00:07:37 without replacing the subsidies. I will tell you, in the state of Louisiana, I'm not doing a state exchange because when the subsidies go away, so does for the most part the individual mandate. So does the employer mandate. That's a huge tax cut for the American people, saves taxpayer spending as well. So I think we should win the case. I hope we do. I'm not a lawyer. I would have thought we would have won the previous challenge on constitutional grounds against the individual mandate.
Starting point is 00:07:59 I think this is a strong case. I think Republicans should show the plan they've got today. I've got a plan. You can go to AmericanNext.org and find out my plan. But there are other plans. But don't wait for the ruling because this is what the president will do. I mean, I didn't ask him, but another governor asked him in a closed-door meeting at the National Governors Association, and he basically said there was no plan.
Starting point is 00:08:20 His attitude was he thinks he should win the case, and it will be up to the states to do state exchanges. This is what the left is going to do. It's as predictable as rain. This is what they're going to do. If and when we win this case, they'll say, well, you heartless Republicans, you're going to have people losing access to life-saving treatment. All you have to do is set up an exchange. This president is fond of saying he won the election.
Starting point is 00:08:38 Elections have consequences. That trap is coming, and I hope but I worry that these Republicans in Congress, many of them will fold, that's why they need to pass their plane before the ruling happens. Now you and I have talked before and you've been pretty consistent that you have a timetable for making a decision on whether you want to run for president.
Starting point is 00:08:56 You're a governor who just happens to be putting out national plans, the sort of thing that a person running for president might do if he was so inclined. Are you on the same timetable? I am still. Look, the next couple of months, we're thinking and praying about it. I will say this.
Starting point is 00:09:09 You're right. We have put out these detailed plans on energy, on education reform, on health care, on repealing Obamacare, on foreign policy. Anybody thinking about running for president? You know, the national media loves to focus on consultants and fundraising and polls. The most important thing is for every candidate who's thinking about running for president to think about what they would do. We need the next president to be somebody who wants to do something, not just be somebody. Jim, we need big change in this country, not incremental change.
Starting point is 00:09:33 I want somebody who understands we're going in the wrong direction. This president's trying to redefine the American dream, redefine what America stands for, and we need to get back on the right track. It is defeating ISIS. It is denying Iran nuclear capabilities. It is repealing Obamacare. It is growing the economy and energy independence. But fundamentally, it's also saying the American dream is not about redistribution. It's not about taxes.
Starting point is 00:09:52 It's not about growth in government. It's not about spending and borrowing. It's about opportunity. It's about the circumstances of your birth, not determining your outcomes as an adult. So I think that's the most important thing for, and I hope people that are considering running will run. I hope that voters have more choices. I hope Republican voters can vote for somebody, not just against somebody.
Starting point is 00:10:09 So I think it's great. We've got a deep bench. I'm partial to governors. They've run things before. But the good news is I think we've got a really deep bench. One of the reasons I ask is that, obviously, at this conference, there's an enormous amount of discussion about who are you behind already. It's February 2015.
Starting point is 00:10:24 Who are you voting for in primaries of 2016? Are you feeling any pressure as you hear Jeb Bush is trying to raise $100 million, but it seems like effectively $100 bazillion. Do you feel any pressure to jump in this as other guys are jumping in? Not at all. My timetable won't be impacted by what other people do.
Starting point is 00:10:41 The reality is when I first ran for governor, I was polling at 2%, which means I was within the margin of error. I'm going to get in based on whether, and I'll make the decision based on whether I'll get in, based on whether I've got something unique to offer. And, you know, this is an election, not an auction. I'm sure there will be plenty of people that will raise a ton of money. I don't think voters want the party insiders to clear the field, to select the nominee,
Starting point is 00:11:04 to ordain a candidate, whoever that person is. I think they want a contest. I think they want debates. I think they want to clear the field, to select the nominee, to ordain a candidate, whoever that person is. I think they want a contest. I think they want debates. I think they want to kick the tires. They want to hear what people have to say. They want to look them in the eye on the ground in Iowa and South Carolina and other states. They want to hear where people stand. And they want somebody who's brave and strong enough to look them in the face and even tell them when they disagree with them. They want a candidate that says, I know the left and the media is going to attack me when I say this. I'm going to stick by it anyway. I gave my speech in London about radical Islamic terrorism. I was
Starting point is 00:11:27 called racist and anti-Muslim because I said Muslim leaders need to condemn individuals, not just generic acts of violence. And we need assimilation and integration for people coming in our society. And I said, well, you know, I'm sorry the president won't say radical Islamic terrorism, but somebody's got to speak the truth. So I don't think anybody should make this decision based on what others are doing or on fundraising or polling. I think folks should stick to their timetables. The most important thing they can do, though, is think what they would do,
Starting point is 00:11:50 what they would actually want to accomplish. It's a very important office and a very important time for our country. You made a reference to Iran a couple of moments ago, and two developments in the last day or two just seemed particularly unnerving, one being the alleged administration plan of there's going to be no processing of the nuclear fuel for 10 years, and after that, maybe it'll be okay. Coupled with the Iranians apparently blew up a model of a U.S. aircraft carrier, like a full-size, you know, which...
Starting point is 00:12:15 So we're negotiating with people who are practicing killing us, and that just struck me as just not... Like, well, I'm not going to give you concessions if you're practicing killing me. That would precondition for a conversation we stop trying to pretend to killing me um have i taken crazy pills the world is spinning off its axe do you do you look at this and say like okay maybe i don't want to be president this thing's really screwed up really fast well jim three things one you've again and this shows why you write so well you've again said it better than anybody else has and that's exactly i don't have a word the endorsement of this no point in saying that i i i
Starting point is 00:12:46 but i but i'm saying i think that you know again you've shown why you're a witty smart uh... uh... conservative intelligent conservative began i think you some eyes are very very well this is but look there's a pattern here this is an administration that tells uh... israel you need to go negotiate people that want you up wiped off the face of your that one eradicate you did that have said that and have not repudiated that. So there is a pattern here.
Starting point is 00:13:10 This is the worst legacy the president could leave to his successors in our country, is a nuclear-armed Iran or Iran on the verge of becoming nuclear-armed. The reality is this. I fear he wants to deal so badly he might take a bad deal over no deal at all. And it is infecting our entire Middle East policies. I think, for example, one of the reasons we haven't been firmer about Assad is that we have ceded that sphere of influence to Iran. I think it's one of the reasons Turkey is hesitant to go in and take on ISIS on the ground because they want to create a void that strengthens Assad and Iran by proxy.
Starting point is 00:13:41 I think it is one of the reasons that perhaps, I can't prove this, but it may be one of the reasons we've not been as tough on Putin and Russia. And again, all because I think this president thinks this is his great legacy, that this is what he's going to leave behind. I hope Congress would step up and not only invite Netanyahu to speak, but say, we're going to get to vote on any deal and we're rejecting a bad deal and would say we are going to pass the tough sanctions bill. Look, so what if the president's threatened to veto it? Get it to his desk. Let's see what he does.
Starting point is 00:14:08 Let's give him the opportunity to do the right thing, and let's at least challenge him to do the right thing. So I do agree. It is important for us to defeat ISIS. It's important for the president to actually say we face the threat of radical Islamic terrorism, but he absolutely must not allow them to become a nuclear power or on the verge of becoming a nuclear power. That's an existential threat not only for Israel and our European allies but also the United States,
Starting point is 00:14:28 and it won't end with Iran. Egypt, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, other countries will also then want nuclear capabilities. We'll be in no position to stop them after we fail to stop Iran. I believe some of those countries may be able to buy that technology from Pakistan. They may have an option to do that. Again, we can't prove that, but can you imagine now you've got multiple countries in the Middle East with nuclear weapons? It's a volatile, dangerous place already. Think how dangerous that becomes with that development. So I think this is a dangerous, dangerous game this administration is playing. He doesn't seem to understand peace
Starting point is 00:14:56 through strength. That is the best way to conduct our foreign policy. Governor Jindal, thanks very much for your time. This has been Jim Garrity with Governor Jindal on National Review and Ricochet Podcast. Jim, thank you. Thank you, Governor. Thank you. Ricochet. Join the conversation.

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