The Ricochet Podcast - Generic Current President

Episode Date: May 26, 2017

Bodyslamming, Trump in Europe, the great Mollie Hemingway (you are hereby ordered to buy her new Encounter Broadside Trump vs. The Media right now), the lies we tell ourselves about terrorism (thanks John Kluge), and Peter Robinson once hung out with Roger Moore. No, we didn’t know that either. Happy summer, everyone. Music from this week’s podcast: Nobody Does It Better (The Spy Who Loved Me) by... Source

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It's the Ricochet Podcast. It might be a little longer, but it's Memorial Day and you've got all the time in the world to listen to Molly Hemingway. Let's have ourselves a podcast. Welcome, everybody, to this, the Ricochet Podcast, number 354. How do we get this far? Simple. Brought to you by fine sponsors like Vistaprint.

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visit HelloFresh.com and enter the coupon code RICOSHAY30. And we're also brought to you by, well, let's have Rob Long come in with his pipe and velveteen jacket and slippers and sit down in his chair and move the tassel away from his fez and tell everybody why. People used to do that. People used to wear that stuff.

I think we should bring all that back. Hello, James. If you are listening to this podcast, you're a member of Ricochet, and that is fantastic, and we love you, and we are honored to be members along with you. And if you're listening to this podcast, you're not a member of Ricochet. You've heard me say these words a million times. You've heard me say these words about 354 times, as a matter of fact. And we get it.

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we need you please do this today it's a holiday weekend you got a to-do list i know you do please put this at the top of it please do it now um we will, really appreciate it and we really, really need it. You will be written down in the golden books as a hero. A hero of the movement towards smart, witty, thoughtful, civil conversation and away from

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Induction into the afterlife will be much speedier. It will be processed quickly if you join Ricochet. Well, Peter, you're over there in California. Hello. Hello. Hello. California is close, not really, to Montana. I'm probably closer. But they had an election, which the Democrats wanted to win, to show that there was a growing tsunami of anti-Trump sentiment out there.

But as it turns out, Gianforte did not lose. Gianforte won. He won by six points, notwithstanding that there was a libertarian in the race who took about six points. On the other hand, a victory of a Republican over a Democrat by only six points in Montana is closer than normal. And this is what just irks me. As I look at, I know we'll get to the story in a moment that the Republican candidate body slammed a reporter. Fine, we'll get to that. But before we get to that, this is just, I'm flabbergasted. Even in Montana. So you've got a couple of counties that went Democratic in Montana.

One is Missoula County, which is, of course, the county seat of which is, of course, Missoula, which is also the location of the University of Montana. And Helena, which is in Lewis and Clark County, Lewis and Clark County went for the Democrat. And Helena is the capital of Montana. So even in Montana, university towns go Democratic and state capitals, all those state workers go Democratic. And I don't know, this pattern is just wearing me out. You'd think there'd be one major university in the country that would just demonstrate some actual independence of thought, some sense of imagination. You'd think there'd be one state capital where the notion of freedom and limited government

and serving the people rather than the people coughing up taxes for your sake would be so ingrained that the state workers would vote Republican. But no, even in Montana, the university town goes Democratic and the Catholic is Democratic. And I'm just tired and ornery and cranky. Well, what do you expect people in government to do, Peter? I mean, come on, they're human beings. People vote their interests, and they believe, and they work, and they have pensions that are outsized and completely unfunded. I mean, they want to vote for their immediate interests. I mean, in a way, doesn't that make you feel, you know, Milton Friedman and Adam Smith and all of our, you know, the collection about Mises, they're all right. People vote their self-interest, and if only we could harness that to the good.

Yeah, go ahead. They hate Mises to pieces. The people in the university believe that they're being ultra and that they're being different. I mean, they believe that the entire culture itself is one troglodyte assemblage that's just a few votes away from reinstalling some guy with a mustache and a funny way of strutting. To them, to be rebellious is to vote for progressivism. And so what else do you expect from Peter? I mean, Rob's right.

They're doing exactly what you expect the genre. I think it was the great Kevin Williamson, who I, of course, love, who said at one point, I know we were on some cruise or something, he said, you know what I wish? I just wish everyone who claimed that he was an anarchist was actually an anarchist. Instead, people who claim to be, I'm an anarchist, they're always voting for like giant government and big programs and more control. And we ought to have a regulation for that. I'm an anarchist. They're always voting for like giant government and big programs and more control. And we ought to have a regulation for that. I'm an anarchist.

Well, that's not really what anarchy is. Anarchy is the opposite direction. There is something, though. I mean, look, you know me. I'm a Pollyanna. I'm not about some things. And I'm a complete, complete disaster. What is it the therapist called?

Futurizer. I futurize, meaning I experience future pain in the present when I don't need to. There is something, and this is, I mean, again, you know, we had this sort of Donnybrook last week, which I, of course, had a lot of fun. And if you heard it last week, I just want you to know that Robert, the listener, sent us both this lovely note, which was completely unnecessary, about, you know, hey, I'm sorry I got out of hand. This is what we do, and we are all friends. And, of course, Max and I have been exchanging lighthearted insults all week. So, Max, it's all the same. And believe me, you haven't heard Rob when he's really angry.

Oh, no, that was not angry. You were the five minutes before the podcast suddenly discovering that I need to use a different mic or some small mistake on my hand is getting blown out of hand. I just wanted to talk a little bit about the generic current president. Let's just refer to him as a generic current president because it really doesn't matter who it is. The GCP. The GCP. Just put your political hat on. The GCP. concern you that Montana, Georgia, and Kansas in the special elections, the Democrats are doing much better than expected. So in Montana, which leans under

21 points for Democrats in the presidential election. Democrats have a deficit of 21 points. In this special election, it was 6. In Georgia, which is their deficit of 21 points. In this special election, it was six. In Georgia, which is their deficit of nine. In the special election, it was two. In Kansas, where they were down 29 points. In April, they're down six. And in California, where they're plus 69.

In April, they were plus 87. They're over 100% in California, right? That's right. That is a slightly worrisome trend. It doesn't bode well for the 2018 midterms. It's something that if you are broadly in favor of the GCP, broadly in favor of the policies and politics of the GCP, it should concern you. May I demur just a little bit? Just a little bit. Here's what I mean.

Here's the way I look at it. What those numbers, what those tighter than you would hope for numbers suggest to me is not, at least it's not clear to me, that it indicates a real sea change in the politics of the country. It indicates something that is worrisome, but isn't quite as big and worrisome as a sea change in the politics of the country would be. And what it indicates is tremendous energy, which translates into get out the vote efforts and in particular into fundraising and press. Tremendous energy among Democrats who

would be opposed to the GCP, even if he were a generic president, but who are particularly opposed to this president for reasons of character, personality, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. I don't see yet a real sea change in the population. Of course, politics is a game of margins. But Montana Montana, you know, Montana is a complicated state. Montana has a pretty popular Democratic senator, John Tester, who served as a very popular Democratic governor. But I take your point. I take your point. The margins here are shrinking. And at a minimum, we can argue about whether the country is moving against the GCP.

But at a minimum, the left is energized. Well, it is energized as the right was at the time of the Tea Party, and the Tea Party swept the House. So yes, this is – yes, I grant it. I grant the argument. Yeah, just something – and this is normal – I mean, this is not normal stuff, but this is not unusual for the GCP, whoever he be, to be facing a midterm challenge. Ronald Reagan lost 27 seats in the House in his first midterm election. It's just that you want to start with just a higher personal

popularity. You just want to have more cards in your hand. But it is not, you know, this is not the liberal media. This is not some distortion of fact. This is true. And people who are broadly in favor of the GCP and its policies should be concerned.

Well, it may be true, Rob, but you well know that if there's a diminution of support, it's because of fake news of the lying MSM. Yeah, that's right. Which invents and constructs things all the time, and therefore, whenever we meet them, we really got to get them a pop in the nose. The whole thing about the Guardian reporter being body slammed and the like is interesting i i mean we've had stories of politicians manhandling reporters before and they've been democratic politicians and nobody's cared and so what about is it means that we can't discuss this but i think it is interesting that a lot of people are enthused that a reporter is getting popped and uh shrugging

their shoulders at it and basically you know as a class they kind of got to come into them and don't really mind when one of these whiny little pajama boys gets in there with his attitude and frankly out here in montana that's the way we deal with things we uh you know knock them to the ground so mona wrote this piece which has a a few comments, shall we say, on Ricochet. And she was blaming it on the – ascribing it as an aspect of the era of Trump, which irritates people. Right. And so let's just get your opinion on that. Peter, do you think that this –

No, no, no. I hate to disagree with Mona, but no. It's Montana. I exchanged texts the other day with somebody who traveled on the Trump press plane, and he said this reporter, he was not defending, body slamming the reporter, but he said this reporter is one of the most annoying human beings he's ever encountered. He never stops. He's always trying to push. And what happened was a big guy in Montana, being a Montanan, lost his temper. And big guys in Montana can lose their temper whether Donald Trump is president or Barack Obama is president.

He should not have lost his temper. He should not have body slammed the guy. But it has zero to do with Donald Trump. I'm sorry, zero. I, you know, I reluctantly have to agree. But also, I mean, it's not even good politics because it's always some kind of it is always some kind of whiny pajama boy, James, complaining. I know that's terrible and it doesn't it'snoxious fashion i'm sure about the cbo score of the republican um uh obamacare replacement plan which was kind of grim and there is no there didn't seem to be a ready answer the problem is that the candidate didn't have um uh or had not i thought

it was that the candidate wasn't taking any more questions, and this guy just wouldn't stop. Well, the candidate didn't, maybe. It wasn't that he was asking. It was just that he was asking. He wouldn't stop. Well, I guess that's the murky thing. I could be true, but what I heard was that it was really specifically about this topic.

And the problem, of course, is that if this is the case, is that the candidate didn't have a fully digested, prepared set of bromides probably and PR speak and weasel words, whatever you want to call it. But there is going to be no shortage of questions about this for every Republican House member. And they need to have an answer. And the answer can't be, I'm going to push you down. It's going to look good. OK, so we've gone from a body slam to declining margin for republicans in montana looking for reliable it solutions for your

business at innovate we are the it solutions people for businesses across ireland from network security to cloud productivity we handle it all installing managing supporting and reporting on your entire it and telecoms environment so you can focus on what really matters, growing your business. Whether it's communications or security, Innovate has you covered. Visit Innovate today. Innovate, the IT solutions people. And Georgia, and now we're working our way toward the CBO scoring of the Trump budget. Could I just say, just one for, just defend our generic chief executive. The generic chief executive just came from a trip in the Middle East in which there were leaders from virtually every Sunni Arab country present in Saudi Arabia to listen to the president of the United States give a very

compelling speech against Iran and against Islamic terrorism and tell them their problem and not just ours. And that was a major, major moment. And if it had been a truly generic president, we would all be saying, wow, that was a major event in foreign policy that just took place in the Middle East. It was to the credit of this country and to the credit of the chief executive. But of course, I can only say that about a generic chief executive, because if we mention the name Donald, we can't do it. But it was a large and very positive thing just happened can i just push back on that because in this case i was and now i i freely admit what i'm about to say is completely schizophrenic and i should be slapped or body slammed um and i will hereby body slam myself

but i wasn't disappointed in donald trump trip to Saudi Arabia because he was Donald Trump. And he was Trumpy and Trumpian and Trumpish. I was disappointed in him because I think he was generic president. To go to the headquarters of Islamic terrorism and blame Iran, that's all Saudi Saudi Arabia wants to hear, is that it's Iran's fault. Iran, in fact, is behind precious little of ISIS and al-Qaeda. Those aren't Shia. Those are Sunni. And they are supported and aided and abetted by Saudi Arabia. The al-Qaeda in Yemen is a wholly owned subsidiary of Saudi Arabia.

You got it. Okay. All right. I passed that of Saudi Arabia. You got it. Okay. All right. All right. I passed it six months ago. Nine months ago. I think to go there and to go there and to say. There's a new regime in Saudi Arabia. There's a new day in Saudi Arabia.

Okay. All right. We'll see. It's very early days. We will see. To go to Saudi Arabia and say, I'm going to talk tough. Boy, those Iranians are bastards. That's not tough talk in Riyadh.

That is music to their ears. Now, I don't blame him. I mean, that is what every president would have done. That may be strategically, you may be correct. You may be coaxing them into a new perspective. But I was hoping, put it this way,

I was hoping that the tough talk he gave to the European allies at NATO, like, hey, pay your bills, buddies, which, by the way, I supported. I think I would have rather had him go to Europe and give them bromides and neck rubs and in Saudi Arabia give them a couple body slams. OK, listen, I grant your point that gathering Sunnis together and then attacking and rhetorically then being rhetorically tough on shia is no big deal but that wasn't all that actually it is sort of a big deal because his next trip was to israel these people are cooperating in a way that they hadn't before but that wasn't the only component of the speech he attacked islamic terrorism which you just said and he said eight months ago nine

months ago this he made it very clear that he considered it their fight, and you have their CC of Egypt. All of these people are now, again, we'll see if they deliver. We'll see. But remember, he said it's the worst. Go ahead. He said it's the worst. Islamic terrorism is a terrible thing, and we all know

who the biggest supporter of terrorism is, and he meant Iran. And what he could have said is, and everybody in this room is culpable. I mean, I agree. That would have – everybody would have freaked out. But, I mean, I don't know. And he may not have sold on it. So here's the piece of investigative journalism.

I'll close this out. Here's the piece of investigative journalism. If I were an editor at the New York – well, yeah, even at the New Yorkork times this is the piece i would assign somebody to do you hey you long come over here you're going to do a piece i'm going to give you six months in any budget you need you find out what the if the saudis are still funding wahhabism you find out if they're still funding the radical schools in pakistan and so forth or if there's been any change at all if there's been no change then i take back about 80 of what i just said rob but if there's been any change at all. If there's been no change, then I take back about 80% of what I just said, Rob. But if there has been a change, then there is a new regime there, and it may be a new day. The Middle East is still the Middle East, but this

may have been positive. But I agree. I agree. There are questions to be asked, and that to me would be the signal test. Somebody needs to do a piece on that. The Saudi support of Wahhabism. Yeah, and you know what? We can wait. We can wait. I was hoping that Donald Trump would be a little more Trumpy and Trumpian and a little ruder and a little less diplomatic

and politic. Well, the man has been listening to these podcasts and trying to trim himself to suit you. He can't win from me, can he? I'm just terrible. Excuse me, I'm going to body slam myself. Okay. James, reassert control.

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Our old friend Molly Hemingway Senior editor of the Federalist And contributor to Fox News of course Also a Ricochet alum And most members of the media Bow down to her like Zod Her new Encounter Books broadside Is called Trump vs. the Media And most members of the media bow down to her like Zod. Her new Encounter Books broadside is called Trump vs. the Media.

And you are hereby ordered to pause this podcast and go there right away, after you've been to Vistaprint, and buy it. Go ahead. We'll wait. Read it. And then restart this podcast. Three, two, one. Ready? Molly, welcome back.

It's great to be here with you. We've been talking about punching journalists and Trump versus the media. Seems to be, he hasn't actually, you know, cold cocked one of them yet. Don't think it's going to happen. Can't see him rushing the podium and doing that. But, you know, he got a lot of support from people by fighting back on the lying, fake, mainstream, et cetera, media. And as a member of the lying, fake, mainstream media, I'm sort of in two different awkward positions here, having to defend one and the other. So the media seems flummoxed by this guy. Are they ever going to figure him out?

Well, I think it's a relationship that really works out well for both of them. Trump goes to war against the media, and he's obviously ridden that all the way to the presidency. And the media go to war against Trump, and they get increased ratings. They make more money. And so it's sort of a dysfunctional relationship that is bad for the country but very good for both Trump and the media. But it's actually bad to have a media choose to go to war against an individual in the way that they have. They have traded their credibility for these profits and for their for the excitement of trying to tear him down and that has long-term

consequences that are not good for the country hey molly it's rob long i got a question i you know i know you are a part of that you know dc media elite you and your husband mark you know you're there you go to these parties um it's a joke are you there you're not laughing okay so here's my question uh and i see you like i see you on cnn and so you're in green rooms you know people you know the you know people on the i mean nominally on the left whatever are they totally bananas? Are they completely disconnected? Do people come up to you and say, yeah, I know, all my editors are liberal, I'm trying to be felt? Is there any sense? Are they completely in denial? Are you like walking through the Scientology building?

You know what I mean? Yeah, I wasn't laughing because the situation out here is extremely dire. And it's not just on left, but really everyone out here is still confused by the election of Donald Trump. That's reasonable to be confused. But yes, you talk to anyone at any level of media production, and they are still walking around unclear, just truly refusing to accept that this happened and deal with it in a more mature or responsible way. And that's true really on, you know, on both the Democratic side and the Republican side of things. But what's interesting about many people in the media is we all kind of knew that there

was bias. It's been something we've talked about for decades even, but now it's just unabashed. Now everyone's just open and honest about their feelings that this person who's president is unacceptable and needs to be ousted. And then on most of the voices on the right would be people who, you know, have just serious problems with Donald Trump. And left out of that would be the electorate that actually voted for Donald Trump. And so I think it would be good to have more voices that represent or at least even understand why people chose to vote for this man, why they were willing to take that risk and let that kind of influence the coverage as well. Have you ever offered up any advice or have you ever been asked for any advice? Every now and then, whether it's disingenuous or not, they'll ask me, well, what do you think we should do?

And I always say, well, you should hire some more conservatives, really, just to provide a balance. Does anybody ever ask you for that? Or are they just really more about how do we impeach this guy? No, I went to a journalism conference recently, and people really, truly were open-minded about it, and they recognized they had a problem. But it reminds me a lot of how they've understood they've had a problem with racial diversity in their newsrooms, which is to say they talk a lot about it, and then they don't do anything to fix it. And they have systematic procedures in place that make it so that they'll never make it better. So they only hire from the same narrow schools that are all going to be upper-middle class, people with the same background. So even if you get some quote-un unquote diversity, it's not real diversity. And they don't know how to break away from having these requirements that you have a journalism degree from Columbia or something like that, that's going to just kill you at the beginning if you want to have other

perspectives. And then also, there's no real incentive right now, right? Like, it's bad for the country. Obviously, they were humiliated, but it takes a lot of money to set up bureaus in other parts of the country. So they're just not going to do it. They're going to keep their New York and D.C. bureaus. It's going to attract the kind of people who don't want to live in the other parts of the country. Right. And it's just not going to get better. Well, this is all grim.

I'm sorry. Molly, Peter here. Listen, so one way of looking at this, and I'm coming to you with this because everything you've said so far does sound grim, which is very uncharacteristic of you. One way of looking at this, Donald, I beg your when he writes about the press, the press is all partisan. Every little town in Hamlet had the Democratic, the Jefferson County Democrat or the Lewis and Clark County Republican. And in those days, the press was far more fragmented and far more partisan. And those were some of the most glorious years in American history. The country was building itself, growing. The democracy functioned.

It was loud. It was boisterous. And the press was partisan. But it all worked. own calm down everybody this post-war period when there were large entities cbs nbc the new york times that had lots of cash because they were effectively monopolies and were rather portentous but about it but still attempted to address the center of the country that was a temporary phenomenon and now we're reverting to the norm in the press and that means we have a partisan press it'll work out what do you make of that i love it in part and it's absolutely right that this is a temporary

we really it's not just a temporary thing in this country it's really abnormal globally to have a media that pretend to be objective or aim toward objectivity it's more normal to have that partisan press i would just point out that at the time at the previous time that we had this we were more to be objective or aim toward objectivity, it's more normal to have that partisan press. I would just point out that at the time, at the previous time that we had this, we were more tolerant of living with people who had different opinions. And that's what we need to have in this country is an understanding that other people view things differently than we do. And that doesn't mean we need to attack them or destroy them or use all the powers of the

law to crush them. But that this is actually a benefit of being American is that we do have these different beliefs. So I hope, I mean, that would just be wonderful if Americans could understand that, that we can all live together and be good neighbors even while we disagree with each other. Looking for reliable IT solutions for your business? At Innovate, we are the it solutions people for businesses across ireland from network security to cloud productivity we handle it all installing managing supporting and reporting on your entire it and telecoms environment so you can focus on what really

matters growing your business whether it's communications or security innovate has you covered visit innovate today innovate the IT solutions people. Molly, Molly, Molly, you don't understand. You're talking about the First Amendment, which facilitates hate speech and creates unsafe environments for people that makes them feel physically unsafe. You don't realize that it's...

Sure, people disagreed back then in a genial fashion, but today, if you disagree with somebody, it's probably because they're mentally ill. They have a phobia. They have transphobia. They have xenophobia. They have Islamophobia. They're unbalanced. So the days where we can say we can have a conversation about these things, that's great.

But the other side believes the right is mentally ill, dangerous, murderous, and all these other things. And that's why they can't wrap their heads around a Trump victory. All of a sudden, these cliches that they believed about the other side, turns out they're true. Turns out they are surrounded by all the rednecks in the woods sitting in their urban enclaves. So you're right. I mean, I'm not sure exactly how this resolves itself. How does it resolve itself? Or do we simply just become two tribes and ideology matters less in the end because it's our tribe and we feel better about our tribe?

Yeah, I mean, you're picking up on my not being so optimistic at this present moment, but I'm not sure how we get out of this other than we need some much better leadership on left and right to demonstrate and model how to be civilized with each other in the face of disagreement. And that, I mean, that's just, it needs to happen immediately. But we don't see a lot of that even,

I mean, the fact that you were talking about this congressman, this now congressman to be beating up someone because he didn't like his approach or whatnot. That's not modeling good civilized behavior. It's totally understandable to be upset at the media, but there are lines that should not be crossed. And we need people who are in positions of leadership to do a much better job of engaging with those with whom they disagree and trying to listen to their arguments and whatnot. Go ahead, Rob. Go, Rob. Go, go, go. I have a question about that incident. I just want to hear – and I could be completely off base.

Just feel free, as I know you always do, feel free to tell me to go buzz off. All the language we use now, assault and body slamming and all that stuff. And I mean, are we a little touchy about this stuff? And he pushed him down. I'm not saying he should have. I'm not saying that was right. But let's I mean, all this language we use. I mean, everybody. Look, I don't think that Corey Lewandowski and the Trump campaign should have grabbed that reporter.

But it wasn't assault, really, I mean, assault really. I mean, shouldn't we all just take a little break here? Yeah. Am I over, am I, I don't know. I mean,

I think it is important not to diminish this. Although I do want to point out that when I heard body slam, I didn't like the term because I thought a body slam was when you sort of thumped the chest of someone else. And my husband, first of all condemned me for not knowing enough about professional wrestling and then explains me what a body slam actually was so i learned something through this incident but um a learning moment it really is really truly genuinely dangerous when people in positions of political

authority are attacking the media it is also genuinely dangerous when the in positions of political authority are attacking the media. It is also genuinely dangerous when the media are attacking the values, the viewpoints, the beliefs of millions of Americans. And so everyone needs to really calm down and think about how they play a role in having a healthy country in which people with different religions, beliefs, philosophies can all get along. And that is for both sides. I do not mean, I mean, Ben Jacobs turns out as a, you know, particularly for working at a very liberal outfit, is not a bad reporter. And he tries to understand positions that he disagrees with and whatnot.

So this is not about him. But we have a media climate where the media have really broken the social contract with people. They're the ones who have roamed the countryside trying to find out you know if the pizza owner has the wrong views on sex and when you bring when you go after people like that people are not going to take kindly to it molly peter here one more time let me ask about two specific news outlets and of course each one of these we could have a show on itself on each one of these so briefish answers i just i'm hoping that the they might illustrate something and if they don't just move on robert james will ask you a good question the new york times it has come it is pretty virulent i mean it is virulent against donald

trump there just is no way around it at the front page this morning online, it has Trump supposedly shoving the leader of Montenegro out of the way at a press call. This is the story that's on the front page of the New York Times when he actually gave a very important speech. Okay, so what has the New York Times learned? It looks to me as though the New York Times in dire financial straits is suddenly doing pretty well. Their online viewership is up. Isn't it the case that the New York Times is learning that there's a specific, dedicated, very liberal, progressive audience and they ought to serve them? Yeah, that is what they're learning. And that's what I was talking about with the incentives are

not aligned to improve the situation. But at the same time, they're now easily dismissed. I mean, if you say, oh oh that was in the new york times that used to mean it was pretty well researched and reported and whatnot and now people just go oh i just know they're going to put that spin on it that is so you know cartoonishly hostile that i'm not going to pay attention to it but even that incident itself i think is a great example of what the media haven't learned so they think everyone's an idiot for voting for donald trump i think if most people said would you rather have leading from behind with someone quietly in the corner making mistakes and accidentally invading countries and not having game plans or someone who kind of aggressively pushes to the front and has like, you know what I mean? There are these messages that are conveyed even when they're trying to say, oh, Donald Trump is a bully.

That's not necessarily how people are going to interpret the same action with vis-a-vis the montenegro leader or whatnot and they don't get it and they don't understand that people have had frustration with not just the previous administration but both of the previous administrations in terms of our foreign policy and whatnot and they were looking for a change and as long as they don't get it they're going to put these stupid pictures on the front page and be confused at why people don't interpret them the same way. Okay, here's the other outlet, Fox News. You've got broadly – now, this is tricky for you because you've been hired. You work for Fox News.

But there was always a difference between the Washington office, which let's say Chris Wallace is sort of the – or Brit Hume playing playing it pretty straight, I think most people would agree. And the New York, where you had O'Reilly and Hannity and so forth. O'Reilly is no more. Roger Ailes is dead and gone. What's happening at Fox? What lessons are being learned at Fox News? Despite working there, I'm actually not well suited to talk about it. I just go in and give my opinion. But one thing I do think is that people have completely misinterpreted why there's some level of dissatisfaction with Fox News among its viewers.

So people think, oh, it's because they're not attacking the president enough or they're trying to explain what he's doing too much. That would not be a match of what my reader email or viewer email would be at all. they think that fox should do a much better job of aggressively fighting back against everyone else in the media's posture and that they want smart insightful commentary about what's going on not more piling on of you know president trump there's certainly plenty to pile on and the the people at fox are going to do that but it's also important that people have a voice of smart conservative criticism against this group think that's everywhere else. You get criticized though, if you pile on, if you, if you criticize,

you're regarded as being part of the unhelpful leftist desire to bring Trump down. I mean, I've never, I was told before the election that the people who were not on Trump's side initially would be valued after the election because they would help keep him honest and pull him towards a conservative direction. But now when you actually criticize him from a conservative direction, you're not part of the game.

You're not part of the fun. You're not part of the team. You're not helpful. You're a never Trumper and should be cast into the heap of history. I want to push back on that real quick i don't think that's actually true of a lot of of people out there particularly the type of person who voted for trump maybe didn't you know maybe he was 17th on

their list of of candidates but they eventually voted for donald trump they are not going to criticize people for for being critical of the president on principled grounds but when you get nothing but criticism from but when you get nothing but criticism from people or you get gratuitous comments if people are making fun of the way he talks before they make some other point that's the kind of thing that just doesn't go over well with people and that they've had far more than they need from the commentariat well maybe they ought to grow a thicker skin then i get to make gratuitous comments if i want to unroot to something else again it's it's people people on the right who were not Trump supporters find themselves not wanted, frankly.

And it's – I'm not weeping boo-hoo about it, but you just – it's very much strong. Ask Rob. Rob, do you feel particularly loved and needed at this moment in the judgment? Well, I've never felt loved or needed. Remember, I was a rhinoceros. Well, that's the underpinning of course your comedy we understand yeah but enough of your work no i i i uh but i it's it's interesting to me because i i feel like um i feel like the that we talked before molly i was sort of trying to talk about uh trump's trip through uh the mid-east and and the Pope in Europe, all that stuff.

And I said, look, let's just – the Trump part of it is so – the name is so toxifying to the conversation. Everybody sort of gets really tense. So a generic current president, just that, and analyze him as just a political figure. And I was trying to do that last week. Let me ask you this. A generic current president gcp having trouble in his first term political trouble which is not unusual not not new really what advice would you give this president currently to sort of uh you know right the ship if you feel the ship is wobbling

yeah not hand his opponents tons of ammunition, which he seems to do regularly. And also just remember that he has power. Like Republicans always do this in this in this regard. He's not unique. They forget when they're in power what that means and what you can do with it. So he can set his own agenda. He can decide what's talked about in a given day. And obviously this trip has gone fantastically well. I mean, if the media are reduced to talking about hand-holding and grimaces and whatnot, you know it's going well. And that he should remember that he was elected for his differences, and he should make those pronounced, and just stop giving people ammunition and stop getting distracted by whatever is distracting the DC media core. Have you met him? No, I have not. Are you on track to meet him? Is there a moment where you think you. Have you met him? No, I have not. Are you on track to meet him? Is there a moment where you think you're going to meet him? I am the opposite of an

access journalist, which is to say that I have had the opportunity. I've had the opportunity to meet him, and I prefer not to. There was a story about Bob Novak once meeting someone in a bar, and they had a great time, and he later realized he was the guy. Pat, Pat, that's Pat Buchanan.

It's Pat Buchanan. I heard it from Pat. I thought it was. No, it's Pat. Although, who knows? No, no. I think it was in the story. This is in his autobiography, I'm pretty sure.

And then he realizes he's the city councilman. He'd spent the whole day trashing in his written work. And he said the lesson he learned was not to have any friends, which is just so no back then. Mission accomplished. I sometimes prefer not to meet people. It just gives a distance that is nice to have

and I'm sure I'll meet him at some point, but not yet. So they made over? You don't have to answer that. This is my own process question. What do they do? Does somebody call you and say, hey, we're having a lunch, and we're inviting 10 journalists. Would you like to be one of them?

Is that how it works? I don't really know what they do in general, but they have done gatherings with a lot of journalists that I could have gone to, yes. But they're usually off the record, and then you can't use what you're learning from them anyway, and it's just frustrating. But you can kind of do that thing that journalists do, which is to say, well, I was at the White House, and so I did hear, here's the back,

you can kind of do this thing like, I'm telling you secret stuff that, you know, it's a little indiscreet, but it's because I'm so plugged in. I mean, isn't that part of the problem with this president right now is that he's done none of that for the the grandees and potentates of the media and they just kind of feel like or has he done it and we we just don't know about it yeah actually he despite what people think he actually does have some good relationships with various people in the media i think maggie haberman at the new york times is an example of someone who has gotten to know him and how it has served both of their interests pretty well.

At the same time, I think what's really the problem with the media relationship is that they were utterly humiliated. They traded everything on the bet that they could keep him out of office and they failed. And there's nothing like ego to really motivate people. And they just can't let it go and they won't let it go until he's impeached. And so if he's impeached, they'll think they have had some victory i actually don't think that they will in the sense that they have missed you know trump is just a symptom he's not he's not like the explanation for everything he's just a symptom of what's going on in the country but if they don't impeach him i'm worried we're just going to have like a mass psychotic break

and it's just going to be bad i don't know you one more question? Just a piece of advice because you read and follow all the news. If I'm a pro-Trump, fairly pro-Trump supporter and I hate the MSM, is there anybody there, anybody on CNN or anywhere else where you think, oh, that guy's fair, that person's fair. Read her, she's fair. Who are your all-star fair in the all-star fair pantheon in the sort of larger media? That is a really good question that I should probably have a good answer for. I think that –

No one? It's no one right now? I believe it. I mean, I think there are journalists who really work hard to understand each issue and who don't get very personal about things and whatnot. I think Brett Baer is a good example of that at Fox News, James Rosen, people like that. Byron York at The Examiner has never gotten emotional this whole cycle, which he should get awards for. He managed to just never get all caught up in what everybody else was caught up in. And there are individual stories that are good. What I would

say is look at the sourcing of stories. It's totally normal to use anonymous sources in DC. You couldn't write many stories without at least some tips or anonymous sources. But we have a complete reliance on anonymous sources that is dangerous and so you want to make sure that they're looking for reliable it solutions for your business at innovate we are the it solutions people for businesses across ireland from network security to cloud productivity we handle it all installing managing supporting and reporting on your entire it and telecoms environment so you can focus on what really matters growing your business whether it's communications or security innovate has you covered

visit innovate today innovate the it solutions people something some indication that the reporter vetted the source or understands that sources have motivations and make sure that those motivations are sort of put into the story i've seen almost none motivations and make sure that those motivations are sort of put into the story. I've seen almost none of that recently, and that's a problem. An anonymous source who spoke on condition of not being identified as somebody who was passed over for a promotion in Homeland Security down the hall in the office to the left by the water cooler.

Yeah, something like that identifies them. So we have a better idea. I like the idea of reporters. Fairness, yes, but principles, true. There are some people I've seen their principles shift or be given short shrift

or put in their back pocket for a while because there are greater things to be achieved. But then again, the media is not just one thing. It's many things. It's a kaleidoscopic spectrum

of wonderful rainbow diversity, right? Agree or disagree, you'll want to read Molly's broadside about it. You can go off to Amazon right now and read Molly Hemingway's encounter books broadside, Trump versus the media. It's inexpensive and it's enlightening, and you'll enjoy it because Molly did it. We'll see you on television and we'll have you on the podcast too. Thanks, Molly. Thank you. Thanks, Molly. Bye. Bye, Molly. Thank you. Thanks, Molly.

Bye. Bye-bye. Thank you. Can we just take a little moment here? James, I'm not going to interrupt your segue. Was I about to? I really did. Look right ahead. It's dead. It's dead, Jim. It's a fish

flopping on the dock. I just want to say, and I know that this is probably completely, I don't know what the word would be, condescending, and I should be, again, body slammed for the third time today. I am so thrilled with Molly. Remember Molly when she helped the community here at Ricochet? She was posting four times a day, and look at her now. She's on Fox News. I'm thrilled. Do you watch a lot of Fox? I mean, I'll watch it if she's there. I like to watch Greg, but I generally find the constant swoop and swoosh of graphics,

the bong to it, which happens to be that Donald Trump opened up a packet of super real person i mean it's just everything's that it's everything's breaking news they all do it now i watch special report which i think is brilliant and then i watch brexit look greg uh but then you know they're not that i don't have much time to watch the news but i do find that all the tv news now they all need to just take a xanax and just relax it with the graphics and the breaking news and everything's so urgent and yeah yeah i agree yeah i mean we have fox in the office and we have cnn and you walk by and it's it's reporting from alternate universes parallel universes which is fascinating to me and and if you lived in one you would regard the other tribe as you know as

as your enemy and And it's... Everybody ought to be like Elvis and sit there in front of three of them. You know, three televisions simultaneously going on so you can get all the perspectives. And then, at the end of the day, then you shoot the set Elvis-like that you don't like. Yeah, get a new one.

Yeah, get a new one. So, if people are hearing ambient noise here, it's because my dog is barking and somebody else, I think Peter, he's got a... Yeah, no, it's me. It's definitely me. I have the back door open at my parents' house, and I guess somebody's doing a little yard work. Everybody knows it. Suburban America.

But it's a lovely spring noise. It's spring. Yes, yes. There's nothing wrong with that. I got a guy outside right now who's power washing my stucco, which sounds like some sort of salacious metaphor. Is that a euphemism? I just got to say, but it's not. And finding a handyman is hard because everybody needs something done and you don't know where to go.

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Yes, we did. John Fluge had a about manchester and the lies we tell ourselves about terrorism um that it's not ideology the terrorism is not a threat to our way of life if we just ignore it and move along law enforcement can deal with it an armed populace will stop this in britain terrorism has nothing to do with ordinary muslims we i mean in other words it seems to me that the the amount of time between we turn the lights back on in the Eiffel Tower and change our avatar to reflect something that is not standing with the latest victims, that time is getting shorter. We're becoming so inured to this that it's almost going to be like the news cycle the next time it happens will be 24 hours. There will be 100 children blown up with nail bombs, and the news happens will be 24 hours. There'll be 100 children blown up with nail bombs and the news cycle will be 24 hours. Anyway, go ahead, Peter.

No, I'm just... It's apropos of Manchester and apropos of nothing at the same time because it just doesn't fit anywhere in this country. But the BBC... I don't know. Somebody posted this someplace or other and it was from the BBC

and the Queen went to a hospital to visit survivors of the Manchester bombing. And I have to say, it turned me into a monarchist. At least I'm still feeling the effect of it 24 hours later. There was this 91-year-old sweet lady who was obviously moved and doing a very good job of being a human being, asking questions of these people who'd been through a horrific experience and who was at the same time the symbol of the nation. It was in some strange way tremendously moving. And that's all I have to say about it.

The problem is she's not the symbol of the nation to the people who are doing these things. Correct. Who regard Britain not as an entity to be inhabited and enjoyed and the history learned about, but regarded as this sort of vehicle for getting them from one place to the caliphate. Yes, exactly. I think the terrorist, the animal who did this, I think he was not just a citizen. I think he was a native, was he not? Yeah, I believe he was born there. Yeah, born there.

I mean, I would say, I mean, I'm sort of in broad agreement with, is it Kluge or Kluge? Because there was a John Kluge. I don't know how to pronounce his last name. I'm sort of in broad agreement about the fact that we tell ourselves lies about terrorism. And I think we're right in terms of bombing these kind of suicide bombers. The armed populace won't stop it, this particular thing. When 9-11 happened, it's useful to go back.

There's just two little historical details one nine when 9-11 happened he was considered at that time um a sea change in the way we thought about terrorism because up until 9-11 we thought about terrorism essentially it's a police matter that it's a law enforcement problem and some poor person said after 9-11 i think this is basically a law enforcement problem and then the skies opened up and rained hellfire on that person because of course at that point we've realized no no it's sort of a larger national security problem that will have to involve the military and i think now um we may be looking especially as sort of this is what we would call distributed terrorism you know people in bakersfield and people in manchester and people and you know people in strange places who are not under the direct control

or orders of a central authority. Maybe they get aid, but they're not really under that control. That is a law enforcement problem and maybe law enforcement just needs to get better and we need to start thinking about terrorism in two ways. One is the source and the origin, the ideological inspiration for it, which takes place terrorism two ways one is the source and the origin the ideological uh you know ideological inspiration for it which takes place in largely at this point sunni wahhabi saudi sponsored uh areas and and then this sort of large the more distributed hard to find stuff that happens uh because some crackpot uh psychopath somewhere has decided to um to decided to ally with them on some kind of internet bulletin board.

That's one thought. The second thought is that what's remarkable is how much terrorism there was in the world in the 19th century, especially the end of the 19th century. That's exactly right. There were bombings all the time, and people were getting blown up, and they were blowing up kings and archdukes, which didn't lead to much good. And it was a great book about it, a novel, and it's, I think, the most interesting novel about terrorism ever written, and it's by Joseph Conrad, called The Secret Agent. I think it's one of his last novels and it really does capture the world of of of the the

um the sad loner with no friends and some kind of weird need and all that stuff to uh to join up and to be manipulated by a larger group and on the absolutely casual way in which the death of hundreds of innocent people in the middle of i I think, I forget where it was. It was some crowded space in London. It was Hyde Park. It could have been Coving Garden. I forget where it was. And this is all 1909, 1911 maybe.

And it's kind of anarchist, I think, but a kind of vague ideology. It didn't really specify. It's really worth reading as a clarifying sort of bromide. Again, to refer to more, the generic current president and maybe even the generic current terrorism mania. I'm not saying it's not diminishing it. I'm just saying there are ways to fight it and that we may be entering a period where it happens more often. But I don't think it will happen more often uniquely.

There's a kind of parallel in what you're touching on that has always struck me as one of those historical parallels that just the tragedy of russia and the soviet union and you've got czar nicholas ii who was an autocrat partly because that was the inherent the tradition he inherited but partly because his he had seen his grandfather's legs blown off and his grandfather bled to death in front of him well that sort of suggests that maybe the throne isn't all that secure and you'd better be pretty rough and then you've got lenin whose brother was executed by the czarist regime for participating in one of these violent anarchist plots and so it's almost as though you've got these deep psychodramas of these two men fated to to confront each other uh it's horrible but the violence of the 19th century the sheer bloodlust in europe is something that we tend to forget about

there was the second i beg your pardon the first world war and the bolshevik revolution didn't come from nowhere right right you know it's interesting i was talking to. Hold on a second. No, it didn't. I mean, where do we trace this back to? Do we want to go back to the French Revolution, to the invention of state terror? No, I'm serious. Oh, no. I do think the French Revolution. Yes. I introduced a nihilistic element into into Western culture. The idea that everything can be taken apart, reduced to nothing, and built up in a utopian fashion. In the moment that that began, then everything is justifiable because you are building the new world here on Earth.

So the 19th century, bloody as it was, was just a continual thunderclap echoing of what the French did when they decided that it was time to start killing kings and start being egalitarian. Rob, are you going to say? No, I was going to say that's a brilliant insight. Let's mark down the date. 10 Thermidor. I forget how they used to do the – but you're right.

The closest thing to the reign of terror, to the pure reign of terror we've had on Earth since the reign of terror, has been Pol Pot's Killing Fields. Also French-inspired. He learned how to do that at the Sorbonne. I sort of agree with that. I was having a conversation with some friends of mine about it, at least just sort of larger themes. I said my own dark theory, of course, is that there's a law of physics that we don't talk about,

which is the conservation of energy, conservation of mass, all that stuff, conservation of blood, which is that if there's bloodshed required to build a thing or yoke a thing together, like a Middle East map, that there's going to be a certain amount of bloodshed that's going to be required to unmap it, which is kind of what we're seeing now. And there really isn't any way around that.

There may be a way to delay it. There may be a way to stretch it out over a century rather than over five years. There's no way to delay it. And I was sort of astonished at my dark view of the world. And I said, well, when was the last time you think – when was the last time in your history books that Europe exploded into – or part of Europe anyway exploded into mass genocide and sort of incredibly brutal, savage, uncivilized killing. 15 years ago. Well, no.

But people forget. People forget. They said, well, World War II, obviously, the Holocaust. No. 15 years ago, Yugoslavia. And everyone forgets that. But it's right there. It's right there.

It's right there. I couldn't agree more. I know. And you mentioned, mark this date down, 10 Thermidor. They thought they were building something that would inform humanity for centuries to come. And now we look at Thermidor and we think, lobster? Delicious, by the way. Unbelievable.

The Nobel Prize for segues. Go, go, go. Oh, my God. That's a segue. I had no idea. Oh, that is The Nobel Prize for segues. Go, go, go. Oh, my God, that's a segue. I had no idea. Oh, that is a great segue. Oh, this is a great segue. Oh, I will now be quiet and love this segue. Go ahead.

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And there was a tweet from Mark Hamill that said Star Wars. And it does date people. I mean, I guess there are some people who came in late to the game, but for a lot of millennials apparently, or is it Generation X? I forget.

They are claiming possession of Roger Moore as their bond. Yeah. I guess they were eight or something like that. Yeah. He started out in 1975 with live and let die no no i think 72 live and let die was it 72 was that early i mean the reason the reason that that was only three years the reason it feels like a lot is because it's different between me being my being 10 and my being seven and i think i was seven when i saw him i mean but i i wrote a column about this in the

national um and i i think that they're there you have two favorite bonds really one one does one has a favorite bond that is the some total of all the bonds you've looked at them and you've analyzed them you think well who's the one that embodies the bond the bond of the novels whatever it is and it's hard for us to to tease out Cold War sensibility, all that stuff. And then who's the Bond you saw do something cool and how old you were when you saw that Bond do something cool? But that's the imprinted Bond in you. So my favorite Bond is Roger Moore, although I fully recognize that he – I don't think he's the best Bond. I actually feel controversially that the best Bond. I actually feel controversially

that the best Bond is Daniel Craig, frankly. But I remember two things. I remember he used his can of hairspray or right guard or whatever it was and a Panatella cigar, which is long cigars, that really is a stage film cigar. It's really,

it's the kind of cigar, frankly, that a Blofeld would smoke, not that a Roger Moore would smoke. And a James Bond, he was getting into a bath and he uses the Panatella to incinerate a snake and an aerosol spray, which is something I try to do really every month, at least whenever I could possibly get to a place where no one who was cared about my incinerating myself or the home. And then the second thing was that great moment in Spy Who Loved Me, which is still iconic Bond moment. Maybe the most iconic Bond moment.

A ski chase. He's chased off a cliff. He's flying and suspended in midair for longer seconds, more time than James Bond should be in midair without any help. And suddenly, billowing out is this giant parachute we didn't know he had

and it's the Union Jack. It's the Union Jack, yeah. It's an incredible moment in the theater. People start applauding and then it goes into the, that's the opening, that's the cold opening, as we say, before the opening credits. And it's a great moment. And I think if you saw that and you were 11 or 10 when I saw it,

how was Dr. Moore not your favorite Bond? Because I'm not 12 now and because... Okay, well, alright, you could be... No, I mean, seriously, the first Bond movie that I saw was You Only Live Twice, which I think my father took me to

when it was re-released for some reason. I think my dad took me to it to teach me the ways of the world. It was easier than having the birds and the bees talk. You just take your son to this. And that was where I saw. First, have your eyes surgically altered. Yes.

And then have your chest shaved. Then you'll be presented with a series of brides. You may choose one. And the gadgetry of that one was spectacular with that amazing indoor pinewood set of the Volcano Lair, which was a level of cool and swank design and Blofeld and Bond and astronauts and rockets that had everything you want when you're 12. And it also had a certain amount of grown-up coolness that that um grimness shall we say that you can ever get out of roger moore roger moore was always fun funny nice jokey um and i'm i'm not dismissing those who like him or claim him as their favorite but there were that was the beginning of the turning bond into sort of a cultural punchline where he became this increasingly anachronistic figure beloved by an old generation that

was unable to come up with anything. If only one of us James knew Roger Moore. I know this will floor you both. I know this will floor you both. I'm not

blaming Roger Moore, by the way, for this. For all accounts, he sounds like an utterly delightful and decent man i'm talking about the writers did indeed he was i'm trying to edge my way in here but now i'm going to force my way in to let you know that i name drop i knew roger moore and this was because i took a six-week leave of absence or i guess it was two months leave of absence in the winter of 80 87 to 88 to go research a book to work with Bill Buckley in Gstaad, Switzerland. And it turned out that one of Bill Buckley's best friends was Roger Moore. And furthermore, that Bill, God bless him,

included me not just in his work in Switzerland, but in the whole social life of Switzerland. So I ended up finding myself seated next to the King of Greece at dinner, and I got to know James Clavel very well, and Roger Moore turned out to have been a charming, self-deprecating, very funny man. He loved foul, filthy jokes, the filthier the better, couldn't repeat any of those jokes. And I saw him do this a number of times if you were meeting him for the first person he would i beg your pardon for the first time i met him for the first time and it took me two or three sessions with him to get over the james bond thing but he would always look for a way to put people at ease and help them get over james bond and the first or

second time i was with him it was a dinner in somebody some rich person's chalet in Switzerland somebody mentioned some tremendous scene just the way Rob did just now in one of his James Bond movies and Roger Moore said oh yes yes well you know not only couldn't I act but uh I'm really not an athlete and then he just tremendous self-deprecation then he told the story about one of the stuntmen who had gotten the scene right. It was on camera, but realized at the end of the scene when he was on the flight, he'd done the stunt on his back that he had broken his neck. And the stuntman, Roger Moore reenacted the stuntman, simply held his head in place and said, get me an ambulance. I've broken my neck. And Roger Moore

said, that was an ambulance. I've broken my neck. And Roger Moore said, that was a cool man. Just lovely. I mean, he was cool as the saint. I mean, on television, in that character, he had the perfect touch to it. For a lot of people, though, Bond is, and this is why

Rob perhaps endorses the Craig iteration, there is a coldness and a cruelness to the heart of Bond that sometimes has to be displayed. You've had your six, the famous line before he just shoots the guy. And Craig has that too. You could never imagine the Roger Moore Bond actually shooting somebody to get him out of it,

just to tidy up that loose end. He'd more likely just drop him in the ocean and throw him a life preserver and and quip and then the ship would move on and we think well that person was probably saved because it's a roger moore james bond not a sean connery james bond rob this is a story that here's a piece of this that will break your heart because you would have known what to do with it buddy of mine in the reagan white house josh gilder and i we were there were moments when being a speechwriter would just drive us. We wanted to do almost anything else,

but especially we wanted to move to Hollywood and lead the life of Rob Long, who, however, we didn't know yet. And we had this idea for a kind of a television show, sort of the saint, but the notion was Nick and Nora, sort of elegant, witty, and so forth. And this was when television was kind of, well, it was the 80s. It was dumb by comparison. The point

is, I pitched Roger Moore on a show. I pitched Roger Moore and Roger Moore, he listened with total interest and he said, actually... It wasn't interest. Well, he said television is very hard work. Television is very hard work.

And I may be past hard work now. But if you get any interest in that, let me know. And then I pitched Diana Rigg. And she said, fine, lovely idea. And then I just didn't know what else to do with it. I had Roger Moore and Diana Rigg, but I didn't know Rob Long yet. Yeah, well, okay, just didn't know what else to do with it i had i had roger moore and diana rigg but i didn't know rob long yet yeah well okay you didn't really have them they just had a polite meeting and as a tour maybe so maybe so but that's that's i mean look roger

moore knew about tv that did tv and the bond films especially the later ones um were just hilariously indolent i mean roger Roger Moore and Cubby Broccoli would sit and they would break, you know, you always have to break what they call for lunch or dinner, they call it dinner. And usually it's an hour at some point during the day after a certain number of hours. And they would break for lunch, proper lunch.

It was around 1.30. It really didn't matter. The day's shooting was organized around their lunch. And they, of course, would always shoot in these incredible locations. And their lunch was thousands of dollars' worth of wine and food. And they would sit there. And, you know, they would drink these incredible wines, part of the budget of the film.

And they would have dine on this fantastic meal. And then in the afternoon, I was like, okay, well, you're ready to go back to work. And Roger Moore would be sort of like, well, I don't think I horse corset now and so a lot of those are a lot of the one take stuff it's a lot of the stuff that i think that james would watch and i would watch in the later crazy horrible uh james bond roger moore james bond uh right i just kind of roll your eyes and think moonraker he didn't even move he didn't even he's not he's not even holding the gun level and that's because he's sort of a little sleepy after lunch

and maybe one or two bottles of wine too much and this from a franchise that had begun with a grim fight to the death fist fight in a train car with Sean Connery and Robert Shaw we'd come a long way it was the 70s though

it was the 70s that's the problem I mean, yeah, we'd come a long way. He'd work all day and then when we would go out in the evening, he would not – Bill Buckley would not talk politics unless anybody asked him about politics. There were comments. I think there were – I'm trying to remember now. I think Roger Moore was generally admiring of Ronald Reagan. But really politics didn't come up. It was – frankly, it was mostly celebrity gossip. Where have you been? Who have you seen?

And they told stories. They told wonderful old Hollywood stories. And as I said, Roger Moore loved dirty jokes. Filthy jokes. All right. We've got to hear some at some point. Ricochet in the dark. Exactly. Well, nobody's really talking much about George Lazenby,

although his name has come up. There's a Hulu documentary that apparently can be found now about Lazenby, who's still around, gives a cheerful 45-minute account of his life as James Bond temporarily, which seemed to consist mostly of shagging an interminable stream of young women who offered themselves up to him. And then he decided not to do it, perhaps. He was just sore and raw. But my favorite part of the Lazenby movie, which some people say has the best blow-filled

and tele-sabalist, and no, I don't think so, is the way it began. How do you replace somebody like Sean Connery? And Rob, you're in the business. You know that when you swap in a Dick Sargent for a Dick whatever, when you change your Darrens, people are going to know.

How do you confront it? And in the very opening scene of Honor, Majesty, Secret Service, Lazenby as Bond saves this woman, Tracy I think her name is. And then she spurns him and runs away and does not fall limp into his arms. And he walks toward the camera and he looks at the camera and he says, that never happened to the other guy. Which was – Wow. looks at the camera, and he says, that never happened to the other guy. Which was... Wow. The most astonishing way to break the audience's suspension of disbelief

right there by acknowledging, I'm not him. So Roger Moore, they didn't have to do that with him because he brought to him a certain spy, suave character that we associated with Bond, and then he made the character into something his own. And we love him for it, and for all accounts, Peter, you're absolutely right. A great fellow, a nice record.

He was a lovely, lovely man. And the world was a little less kind for his absence. We have to leave now, too, and we want to remind you on the way out that HelloFresh, ZipRecruiter, and Vistaprint, proud sponsors of this program, all have something great for you. Look at that page where you are on Ricochet right now, perhaps, and use those. Looking for reliable IT solutions for your business? At Innovate,

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the show will pony up for the new $2.50 tier, which allows you to listen to all the podcasts and comment on those podcasts as well. Boy, I don't know what else to say, except it's been fun. We thank Molly, Peter, Rob. Have a great long weekend.

Thank you, too. Happy Memorial Day. Yep. We'll see everybody at the comments at Ricochet 3.0. Next week. Next week, fellas. Nobody does it better Makes me feel sad for the rest. Nobody does it half as good as you.

Baby, you're the best. I wasn't looking, but somehow you found me I tried to hide from your love But like heaven above me The spy who loved me Is keeping all my secrets safe tonight and nobody does it better

though sometimes I wish someone could nobody does it quite the way you do. Why'd you have to be so good? The way that you hold me. Whenever you hold me. There's some kind of magic inside. me whenever you hold me

there's some kind of magic inside you that keeps me from running but just keep it coming how'd you learn to do the things

you do and nobody And I do the things you do Nobody does it better Makes me feel sad for the rest Nobody does it half as good as you Baby, baby, darling You're the best Baby, you're the best Baby, you're the best

Baby, you're the best Baby, you're the best Baby, you're the best Ricochet. My name's Bob. James Bob. Join the conversation.