The Ricochet Podcast - How You Doing?

Episode Date: July 31, 2020

Tis week, James is blue, Peter is unplugged, Rob meets his political doppelgänger, John Yoo meets his hero, and Kevin Faulconer (the current Republican Mayor of San Diego) gets his shot on The Big Show. Also, Ricochet member @skipsul gets another turn as the Lileks Post of The Week, and the podcasters pick Biden’s VP. Want still more Yoo? Join us next Wednesday at 7PM ET for virtual book party... Source

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Terms apply. Bet responsibly. 18plusgamblingcare.ie I have a dream. This nation will rise up. Live out the true meaning of its creed. We hold these truths to be self-evident. That all men are created equal.

We do not want to become the arbiters of truth. I think that that would be a bad position for us to be in and not what we should be doing. I'm the president and you're fake news. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall. It's the Ricochet Podcast with Peter Robinson and Rob Long. I'm James Lalix, and our guests today, who? John Yoo and San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer of Future of the GOP in California. So let's have ourselves a podcast. I can hear you!

Welcome, everybody. This is indeed the Ricochet Podcast. What else would it be? And it's number 506. Comfortably nestled between 505 and 507 yet to come. I'm James Lilacs here in Minneapolis. Yes, Minneapolis, the city that people now say, Oh, how are you? With Rob Long in New York, and Rob, how are you? And Peter Robinson in sunny California,

where I assume everything is verdant and green and peaceful and Rob, how are you? And Peter Robinson in sunny California, where I assume everything is verdant and green and peaceful and mad, but still not exposed to the disorder of urban sort that Rob and I have been experiencing. So how are you doing, James? Are you okay? No, I'm doing horribly, but it has nothing to do with any of that. The state of my city and the rest of it. That's, in my head, that became a small little sideshow. But, no, I'm doing fine. But it's not because of Trump. Peter, how are you doing? Wait, wait, wait, wait. No, no, no.

We can't just skip. You are usually so ebullient and cheerful, James. Yeah, not this week. What's wrong? I don't want to talk about it. Is it discussable? Oh, this is not discussable in public. So I'm not going to. I'm going to do the North Dakota thing and defer and move on and deflate and deflect and ask Peter, how are you? How has this week treated you? I mean,

if you live or die by the Trump tweet, if you live or die by the Twitter world, if you live or die by the Tucker monologue. And these are all different things. I can usually tell how people are. But if they're living, you know, sort of a normal life as best as we can these days, it's an open question for some people. How are you? Has to do with uh you know whether or not you know you forgot your mask and got yelled at i am uh yes exactly i am um i'm okay because i'm i'm sort of i have i have done probably more rigorously than at any time in my life since I achieved adulthood, since I was in college. I have intentionally tuned out of politics. I watch, I, of course, I tune out to politics to these. What I mean is I've turned off the television. I dip into Twitter maybe once a day.

At Ricochet, I missed a post in which I was named until somebody had to send me an email yesterday saying, hey, answer this question at Ricochet. So I have just tuned out because it is like every time I open the door, there's a howling hurricane outside. If I close the door, silence. It's like gargling with fireworks. It is. Well, yes, even better, gargling with fireworks. So if you ask me to start, how are politics impinging on your life? I have tried to put it all in a box. But if you ask me what's in that box, all kinds of infuriating, maddening things are in that box. I live in Santa Clara County, which has a county health commissioner, I think that's the title, who thinks this and this and

this. A mile and a half up the road is San Mateo County, whose health commissioner disagrees, with the result that I have to go a mile and a half up the road to some barber I don't know to get my hair cut because barber shops are open a mile and a half away. And in Santa Clara County, I cannot use my longtime good friend barber because that barber shop is closed. Now, nobody cares whether I get a haircut or not except me. But that detailed intrusion into our everyday lives, which was sensible for perhaps a couple of weeks at the height of the virus when we didn't know what was coming at us. And the notion of flattening the curve, so hospitals, that made sense, but it only made sense for a limited time. Now, even the county health officials aren't even attempting a rationale.

More cases, shut it back down, barbershops open there, barbershops... It's madness! Yeah. Excuse me, but I try to... But truly, I do... I wonder whether the two of you have reached this stage as well, but I do try to keep it all in a box. I'm compartmentalizing that part of my life,

which used to be 90% of my life, in a way that I never did before, just to get on with my work. Yeah, well, it's hard sometimes to put it in a box when you're going downtown and driving past your favorite buildings and there's graffiti spattered on there because the people who wanted to force some sort of Donald Trump bringing in his stormtroopers decided that they're going to attack, quote, end quote, our federal building. This meant spraying ACAB and F12 on this beautiful, gorgeous federal building, which is surrounded, by the way, by these whimsical, lovely little statues.

This great art that's made in the spirit of the 1920s cartoons, and they're delightful. And they painted obscene slogans on the backs of every one of those. On their way to the place, they defaced the Viking stadium. They put up signs saying, time to riot, we shoot back, kill all cops, F Israel, and the rest of it. And there was one piece that was scrawled, burn all precincts, that was scrawled on a private building, and that's been removed. You can still see it, but that's been removed. Everything else that's owned by the city has remained with these sentiments. They can't take, kill cops off the brick wall of this transit hub. They can't or they don't.

And so you pass this every day. Every day I drive to work, I pass a hammer and sickle that's been painted up and left there by a barrier that the city put in to keep people from driving through the George Floyd Memorial. And that every day makes me burn because that's different. It's not how things are here. Rob. Well, I can't help you with that. I can only say that in terms of the politics at this point in the political cycle, presidential political cycle, no matter what, no matter who we're talking about, at this point, it's all the theater that's the fun part, right?

Because it's the presidential campaign, and from now on, the summer and the early autumn is just pure theater. It's the two conventions and the convention speeches, and if you're sentimental about that stuff, you like the roll call and the stupid hats, and there's something fun about the theater of it. There's a certain kind of high wire act for the candidate of your choice who's going to speak, all that stuff, right?

And then there's debates, but it's the theater of it, and there's no theater now. So, well, there's no point in watching it. Nothing substantive is happening. There's no theater, there's no sports, there's no movies, there's. And there's no theater now. So there's no point in watching it. Nothing substantive is happening. There's no theater. There's no sports. There's no movies. There's nothing.

There's no entertainment. I mean, there's no theater to the politics. There's no conventions, no speeches. I know, but why would we expect to have something like that in this year? Well, I'm not saying we should expect it. I'm just saying that in the absence of that, what we realize is that this period in the political cycle, no matter what cycle there was, every four years, that was what this period of time was devoted to. And you don't

have it. There's no point. You don't, it's perfectly fine to turn off the politics because it doesn't really matter. The only thing that I find so, uh, such a curious choice is that the Senate has left for recess without, uh, dealing with the unemployment benefits, the COVID-related unemployment benefits. And the reason they did that is because they've got to get home, not because they're going on vacation. That's what the demagogues will say. They're going home because they realize that the Republican Senate is in big, big, big, big, big, big trouble. And so they think that the solution to that is to go home and campaign, whereas the solution to that is almost certainly to get something big, fat spending bill done, whether you like it or you don't. It's just a very curious misreading of the political moment from people who you'd think would be better at it, but the reason they're not is because they are in absolute panic.

They're describing this in the Senate Republican campaign circles. November, the election day is the Red Wedding, which is a reference to the Game of Thrones episode in which everyone dies at the end in a horrible, horrible way. So there's panic and terror and that almost always leads you to make bad choices. So that's what we're watching. If you're watching politics, that's what you're watching. Right. All right. Because there's nobody who wakes up every day and says, will today be the day when my senator comes to town? No. But I guess I got to go home and remind us that they're special and wonderful. Yeah. Well, John, you is going to be joining us any minute, I believe. Is that correct? Yeah. Yeah. Oh, so, John, I did an interview with John. Actually, let's just get him

on. Why don't we get him on and I'll just tell him this. All right. So, we don't have the theater. We don't have the rest of it. The Senate's gone. Red Wedding and coming. But then again, people always say, you know what? All of this stuff doesn't really matter to people because it's the economy, stupid. Well, the big headline this week was that the economy dropped by 32.9%, which of course is annualized. That's different from what actually happened, but everybody knew it would be bad. Nobody's surprised that it was this bad. The question is, did this big news come out? The 32 was trumpeted about. Do tell everybody it's all Trump's fault. Is it all Trump's fault? You've got 30 seconds,

Rob, Peter. Well, also, I know it's not Trump's fault. He didn't create COVID. This is an entirely COVID-related disaster, but he's going to pay the price for it, not because people are going to blame him for it. They're just going to blame him for tweeting about nonsense and being more concerned with his own, you know, ego inflation than he is about the issue. And that is that that is ultimately the problem. Jim Garrity says something really brilliant the other day. He said Biden is not going to beat Trump. Trump is going to beat Trump. And that is what is happening. That's what we're watching right now. Biden, we said this to each other six months ago.

It's a pity the Democrats actually have to choose a candidate because their strongest candidate is simply an empty box. Simply tick this box if you don't want Trump. And lo and behold, they chose the candidate who comes closest, we now know, to being an empty box. Joe Biden, there was a clip of him on the other day. The press stopped him as he was leaving a store, and he was being led by the hand by one of his aides, which is what you do to someone who's in a nursing home. You say, there, there, Grandpa, now let's come this way, down this hallway, into the cafeteria. It's time for lunch.

It is just astounding. He's saying nothing, partly because he can say nothing. I now believe that there's just almost no doubt that he's suffering some kind of incapacity at this point. And by a mirror, why God should favor the Democrats and give them this sort of cipher, this blank box, I do not know. But that is what has happened, and it's working out for them. And all he has to do is campaign from the basement on Zoom. And nobody ever asks, gee, is that Zoom connection good? Do we have the Chinese people perhaps planting some sort of software in there that will listen to what you know, when he gets to mute and he talks to everybody about his strategies and plans?

Don't know. I mean, is that a secure, is it even possible though to have a secure connection these days? Rob, do you think so? No, I mean, I don't think you, I don't think you do. I mean, I remember years and years and years ago, I got an email from my lawyer asking me to, if one of her clients could contact me because he needed he needed a reference on a writer and i said yeah but you know i'm busy right now so don't have him call me just have him send me a text or an email and i'll send it back and she said i will not do that and then i was like well just do it just give him my number i mean you give my email or just link us all together and she said no he needs to call you and i was such an irritating thing and then i when i spoke to her later about it she said yeah you don't ever have those conversations

ever have those conversations in text you never type them out what a that's insane call me to discuss she said are you are are you okay rob are you Yeah. Because are you bleeping kidding me? Do you honestly think at this point in the show when I ask you a question like that, I'm interested in a response? Oh, you know what? I just, you know what? I just kind of, in my head, I had like a little episode. I thought we already did the spot.

No, I was... Holy moly. This is practically... And you know how Joe... I presumed that you would come in and say that there's absolutely no way to be secure and i would say otherwise that's the bit that's the shtick that's the routine that's the who's on first now i feel terrible because this is like abedin costello on the stage and one of them says who's on first in the year that says yeah he's a pretty good player you know what i was putting on was reconnecting my little mic cord, and in my head, I felt like you'd already done a spot. And aren't you kind?

I know you're in a terrible mood. Your city's a mess. And yet you still took time out from your unpleasant and dyspeptic and generally downcast mood to help me with my interrupting your segue, which I hope I've done. I'm a giving man who thinks of others. And that's why I'm going to tell you people, folks, sometimes, you know, you're on the Internet a lot. If you're a Ricochet member or a listener like that, you're probably marinating in this stuff too much anyway, and it's not good for your mental health. But on the other hand, it's kind of worrisome sometimes when you click here and you don't want any record of it to be there or you just, you know, oh, I better use incognito mode. No, let me tell you something

here. Incognito mode does not hide your activity. No. It doesn't matter what mode you use or how many times you clear your browsing history. Erase, erase. Your internet service provider can still see every single website you've ever visited. And you may say, who cares? It's all good stuff. It's all legit. That's right. That's right. That's fine. But do they need it? Do they need to know that and have it in their stuff

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Three months free on a one-year package. And our thanks to ExpressVPN for sponsoring this, the Ricochet podcast. And now we welcome back to the podcast, John Yoo. God knows why. I mean, we had him on for the impeachment consultant. He was great there, but, you know, impeachment was over, and that was it. And then we had to bring him back for midnight gardening tips. It never ends.

Oh, we thought we'd be shut of the guy for a while, but no. He has to go and write a book, so we have to go and talk about it. Great. Otherwise, you ought to know that John's the former Ricochet podcast senior impeachment correspondent. You know that current Ricochet podcast senior White House correspondent. In his spare time, such as it is, he teaches law at Berkeley Gardens and Businesswear, as we noted before, and is the host of the Law Talk podcast with Epstein and you right here on the Ricochet Audio Network. His new book, Defender in Chief, Donald Trump's Fight for Presidential Power. And he tweeted out, I believe, a picture of himself in the Oval Office with his book, Smiling with Donald Trump,

who's smiling just as broadly. How'd that go, John? Tell us about it. I knew this was the only way I was going to get back on this podcast. Even Rob Long would have to let me on if I could get a picture of me with the president. Yeah, I know. We had to have a conference. We had a board meeting about it yesterday. I was outvoted. There were tears. There were hugs.

At the end, there were kisses, as you all made up and let me back it was great it's all virtual and social distancing unlike you and trump by the way mask i know neither of us had masks on that's for sure hey the picture was not on twitter by the way my mistake he did john's not on twitter because he's a sensible man so no masks wasn't why no masks look, everyone who goes in there has to take a COVID test. So you know what? This is the thing. I'm in California. I had to fly 3,000 miles and try to get in the White House to get a COVID test.

That tells you what it's like in California these days. Okay, so John, could we perhaps talk about the President of the United States, whom you met not 24 hours ago? How does he look? What did you talk about? Just, what's it like? It was really great. I mean, it was so different than what you would expect. I mean, if you were to watch and listen to the media, you would think, you know, you've got this, like, Nixonian figure in the bunker, angry, paranoid.

It was very different. I thought the guy was energetic. He was optimistic. He was looking forward to the campaign. Oh, can I say this was all after we finished my interview for the next Supreme Court vacancy, of course. And then after I turned down uh becoming white house counsel or attorney general on the second term then we got on to the important stuff you know it was a lot of uh it was very different he was on you know and he was on top of things like we talked about the supreme

court he was on top of the supreme court cases not only do you know how they came out he had a pretty good idea of the reasoning he he remembered how the different justices voted in the different coalitions that came away actually quite impressive now the thing is and uh i was just i had no agenda i wasn't lobbying for anything uh i just came by to drop off a copy of the book and then it was his idea to take a picture i i i assume that uh the ricochet website is now exploding as people download this picture and view it um i'm sure rob inserted a chinese uh chinese virus into the photo coding uh and then you know we honestly we're very proud of you john you you wrote a book and the renoval office and stuff pretty good no i ended up sticking around

for an hour and we had an hour i think Really? It wasn't just a photo op. I think he had a good time talking. One thing he was just like, I think he thought I was an endangered species. It was like finding the last dodo. Because he was like, you're a conservative and you live in Berkeley, California? You teach at the University of California at Berkeley? He's like, what are you doing there? How do you survive?

John, if I may just ask one little question here about who's running the government. Two data points have come out of this so far. First is in the picture. There's nothing on his desk except the telephones. No business, nothing to sign, no lists of congressmen to call, nothing. And he had an hour to spend talking to you what's the guy doing i i got the sense i could be wrong yeah there's two kinds of people in government there's memo people and there's oral people and i've worked for people in the past who like to discuss things and he loved to to argue. He was arguing with me. We were telling jokes. He was pushing back. I think that's the way he works. I mean, I haven't worked there. But my impression was he probably likes to get people in the room, have them argue in front. He likes to make statements, have people challenge him. And I think there are other kinds of presidents or judges or congressmen who like to see things in written memo form.

And then they like to tick the yes or no box. That's definitely not Trump. And then the other thing I got the impression of who's running the country, I think he does like to. And maybe that's why he saw me and spent time with me. I think he likes to keep his fingers on the pulse of the country. I think he probably calls a lot of people all over the country and just say, like, what do you think of this? How do you think we're doing? What do you think of this? I mean, I think it's his way of getting outside the bubble of Washington,

in a way, is by seeing people who are far away. All right. Two really important questions for a man who was just with the president for an hour, less than 24 hours ago. Does he want to win re-election? We are so conditioned by this notion that we've got this tragic figure who's obviously going to lose. And if you read Mickey Kaus, for example, Mickey Kaus is just waiting for Trump to find some way to get out of the whole thing and let somebody else run as the Republican because he knows he's going to lose and Trump doesn't lose. None of that fits what you saw yesterday. Is that right? No.

Anyone who thinks that Trump doesn't want to win is probably in California and they're getting like a contact high from legal marijuana. Because that is just high. I mean, I saw a guy who was actually, if anything, I would say he's like the ultimate COVID shutdown. He's like the senior citizen who can't wait to get the hell out of being shut in. I think he's been cooped up too long. And I think not being able to have rallies, not being able to really. He's had rallies. Nobody showed up to them.

Nobody showed up. He's allowed to go. Now, I wouldn't have rallies in Tulsa. I mean, what's going on in tulsa what i mean i need what's going on tulsa i went to some asian food at my rallies i mean what do i go to or at least you know one thing i didn't ask him here i will i forgot to ask him about which one was his favorite mcdonald's sandwich and i was gonna have an argument with him about the mcrib but he was too busy talking about my vacancy on the supreme court and we never got to it. Now, okay, joking, ha ha ha, funny joking aside.

He is just He is just weird enough. He is just a weird enough person and impulsive enough to think to himself that John Yoo, that guy, he should be on the Supreme Court.

That is something that he could do. It's just perverse enough. Unfortunately, he needs Senate advice and consent. That's the big stuff. Okay, so can we talk about the book now? If you finish your slavish idolatry of the president. And let me just cut to the chase, right?

Because it's called Defender-in-Chief, Donald Trump's Fight for Presidential Power. Talking about presidential power, does the president have the power to postpone the election? There we go. I think the answer is pretty easy, actually. Congress and the Constitution sets the election date. The president can't postpone it,

but I think Trump wasn't claiming that he was going to postpone it. He was just sort of throwing it out as a question to cause trouble. And you could even say he's asking Congress to change the date, which they obviously aren't going to do. And we haven't changed the date even during the Civil War when a lot of people in Congress thought we ought to postpone elections and even suspend the Constitution. And Lincoln, you know, it's Lincoln's view. We have to make sure things go on as normal. That's part of showing we should be in charge. So, no, I actually don't even think that's a close question.

And he wasn't serious about it? I don't think so. I mean, I think he was having fun, actually. That's not to say, and I do argue in the book, and the main part of the better answer to Rob's question is I think a lot of times when Trump is defending the Constitution and preserving the presidency, he doesn't know it or he doesn't think about it. He's interested in survival. He's interested in getting reelected.

And my argument is that the Constitution funnels all that self-interest in the direction of preserving a broader constitutional good by fighting off Congress and struggling with the judiciary. And I think that's what Trump has really been doing. Even though he may think of it as, I just want to beat Mueller, I want to get past impeachment and get reelected, that's what the Constitution wants him to do. But the idea that he's a defender of the Constitution is anathema to the people who believe that he is a mad king who is up there flaunting and flouting and shredding the Constitution at every turn while he's sending in his personal Gestapo to Portland and the rest of the place. I mean, if you believe Twitter, and I know that's a problem, that's the general opinion

out there, that this is the most unconstitutional. I mean, Claire Berlinski is tweeting every day about how the president is acting beyond the Constitution every single moment that he lives and breathes, from the time he gets up in the morning until the time that he turns off the television at 2 in the morning. So how do we square these two? I mean, you're saying that he actually defends the Constitution by default, by just not, you know. But the other, let's look at sending federal troops to Portland, widely regarded as unconstitutional and authoritarian and dictatorship, etc., etc., etc. But this is the thing, I think. Look, I was wary of Trump in the beginning.

You know, people often mistake me for being a never-Trumper. I was, when 2016, I was closer to Rob than to Peter. That's true of most things, actually. That's why Rob doesn't want me on the show, because he doesn't want to associate with me and my allegiance to his ideas. It's all this competition. So what's really going on is it's his opponents, I think, who are making the arguments that depend on a constitutional revolution. You believe what they say. They're the ones who want to get rid of the Electoral College.

They're the ones who want to pack the Supreme Court. They're the ones who want to have more independent councils and use prosecutors and the criminal law to fight out political disputes. They want to nationalize the energy and transportation sectors for a great for green new deal plus look at the use of force in portland and seattle and maybe chicago yeah you read the new york times opinion page there you had a columnist saying this was an occupying army that this was the rise of fascism but if you actually look at what they've done in the government they are they are right allowing the state and local officials to primarily protect public health and safety that's've done in the government, they are allowing the state and local officials to

primarily protect public health and safety. That's their job in the Constitution. If they won't do it, the federal government still has the right. Keeping people from burning the Reichstag is now the equivalent of the Reichstag fire. Yeah, I agree. I think actually federal forces are being used in a limited circumscriber. It's the same power that George Washington used to put down the Whiskey Rebellion or that Abraham Lincoln invoked to protect Fort Sumter. It is protection of federal buildings personnel, enforcing federal law, or at the worst, if cities and states step aside and let private groups terrorize neighborhoods, the federal government has a role

to protect the constitutional rights of citizens when states refuse to do their duty. And I think that's what Trump's doing. Hey, John, I am now, oh dear, it does pain me too, because you are so close to Rob in so many ways. I want everybody to know that John and I recorded just the day before yesterday, we're talking to John after he met the president, I talked to him before he met the president, we recorded an episode of... And I didn't tell you! No, Scott already, I knew. So, I read the book. I have read the book, Defender in Chief. And I have to say, although it pains me to do so, it's lucid, accessible,

enjoyable, beautifully argued. And the theme again and again and again. Who wrote it for you? Yeah, exactly. The theme. I will tell you, I did tell you, I did tell you when I gave it to Trump and he picked it up, he didn't say any of those things, but he did spin through it really quick looking for more pictures of him. Yeah. say any of those things but he did spin through it really quick looking for more pictures of him i just don't here i am trying to sell books for you and there you are you know go ahead you sell your own darn book so uh the theme that go ahead i the theme that emerges again and again and again

is this strange paradox i can't remember anything like this in politics, in American politics that I've experienced and I've lived for a while now, or anything quite like it in American history, where Trump is overwhelmingly reviled as the man who is violating not only the Constitution. At LiveScoreBet, we love Cheltenham just as much as we love football. The excitement, the roar, and the chance to reward you. That's why every day of the festival, we're giving new members money back as a free sports bet up to €10 if your horse loses on a selected race. That's how we celebrate the biggest week in racing. Cheltenham with LiveScoreBet. This is total betting.

Sign up by 2pm, 14th of March. Bet within 48 hours of race. Main market excluding specials and place bets. Terms apply. Bet responsibly. 18plusgamblingcare.ie Strictly speaking, but all sorts of small c constitutional norms. When in fact, John argues, not only persuasively but unanswerably in my opinion,

it is Trump's opponents who again and again and again wish to overturn the Constitution and are violating constitutional norms. It is just an astounding thing. And John says it all and says, and pins, we've all, not all, but many of us have had this feeling that there's a strange warp going on. John lays it all out and provides the dates and the incidents, and it's all right there. Correct, John? Yeah, the only person I can think of, I know you might remember him, but I'm still too young to remember him, is Andrew Jackson. I think Andrew Jackson is the closest thing. This is the way he repays me.

Andrew Jackson also was treated the same way. Remember, they wanted to impeach him in Congress. Instead, they censored him, and they claimed he was pulling down the Constitution. He did come in, just like Trump from the outside. He attacked the elites. He really did disrupt the way politics ran. He was the first populist president. But in the end, we tend to agree, looking back on it, that Jackson had the right view of the Constitution, and he inspired a lot of Lincoln's positions. And he did a lot of good, even though he's a president now who's on the downside, at least in New York Times' 1619 world opinion. And that's so close i agree i can't think of someone who's been uh so politically disruptive but at the same time was a constitutional i think a conservator someone who's so conservative

on the constitution usually disruptors want to break all the constitutional china two two two last questions for me one is this you write in the book that you didn't like Trump at all, and you list the reasons why you didn't like him when he was a candidate. You didn't vote for him in any of the primaries and so forth. And then you write, boy, was I wrong. He has governed as a constitutional conservative. Now, let me name some names for you. And these are people we both know, and in my case, at least, they're old friends. Bill Kristol, David Frum, Max Boot. Why is it that John Yoo is able to say, I was wrong about this guy, and the personality may or may not be difficult to take, or more than difficult to take, but look at the way he has

governed. This is a constitutional conservative. Why are you able to do that when there are so many really good and brilliant people, experienced journalists and Washington hands, who turned into never-Trumpers? I'm puzzled by that, too. And I started maybe in the same spot or close to it as they did. I think they are people who are so put off by the way Trump runs the presidency as a political matter, not constitutionally, but politically, the way he tries to get around the media and uses Twitter to speak directly to the people, which, you know, that's just borrowing Ronald Reagan's playbookbook but applying it to new technology, right? Speaking over the heads of Congress and going right to the people. The way he's, you know, attacked the media.

In some ways, he's like Nixon in that respect. You know, the way he's, you know, he's a, that's one thing I can't wait for my conversation. The guy is a political animal. He loves to talk. He talks really fast. And he loves to talk about politics just like he would. He just loves it. Every minute is about politics. He loves who's up, who's down, why they're up, why they're down, what they are disgusted, first by Trump's character and all the things we learned about him in the election four years ago, but then the way he has completely changed, and I think he has, he's completely changed the relationship of the

presidency to elected politics, the rough and tumble of partisan warfare. A lot of presidents tried to separate that, and I don't think, I think Trump has maybe collapsed the line between the electoral, you know, the party leader and the government leader. John, last question. What's at stake here? You're telling us Donald Trump is ebullient and energetic and wants to win. Fine. The polls are telling us something different.

If it's the case that his opponents are the ones who pose the greatest threat to the Constitution, well, just do this. Give us the first 100 days of the Biden administration. I don't know anything about the polls and why they are, though it's got to be. I think obviously the COVID pandemic and the disorder in the cities. But I would think the first, again, if you believe what they say, if the Democrats, when all, you know, the presidency, the Senate, and the House, I think the first thing they'll do is get rid of the filibuster, which will prevent any minority from slowing things down

in the Senate. You know, another constitutional, not constitutional,, another rule, a practice that's been with us for over 100 years, more than 150 years. And then I think they will live up to their promises. I think they will add more justices to the Supreme Court, because what will stop them? I think they will create new independent councils. I think they'll add a few states like D.C. and Puerto Rico and try to significantly shift the balance of power in the Senate. I think they'll create lots of independent councils to use a criminal law to go after political opponents, just like Jim Comey tried to in 2016. And the thing I think worries me the most is that one of the things I try to write about in the book that's unheralded is Trump's effort to slim down the government, to deregulate it,

to get power back out of Washington. I think that'll end. I think Obamacare will just be a roadmap for things like energy, transportation, education, because that's what they say they'll do in their platforms and their task forces and working groups. And if they win the election, I don't know what's going to stand in their way. And on that cheerful note, we let John go and look forward to a future of Soylent McRibs, made, pressed from plankton, harvested from a dying sea. Fantastic. Well, I won't be happy until I'm sitting in a Senate confirmation hearing as a friendly witness uh for uh for your nomination as some boondoggle

for a presidential appointment and i'm forced to to to do this to lean into the microphone and say um senator on the vice of council i uh i decline to answer that are you kidding rob you going to be my counsel. I'm going to be the first person to show up with a comedian as my counsel. That's really true. So without a law degree. Yeah, you're sure to sail through. That's the way to beat them.

You're sure to sail through. Well, that's the happy outcome there. Yes, that's the good outcome. The other side after they take over is all of us get shaved and our hair is sold in bags to China just to move that thing in the opposite direction. What? Wait a second, what? Well, the idea that the right is going to be rounded up and put on the trains and have their heads shaved Uyghur style after this is all done. And I don't think, of course, they'll have to do that. If they have complete control of all the levers of power, then there's no need to go after individuals. They simply will relegate the entire other side

of the political and ideological equation to be moot. Great. Two years of that. Or four. Or eight, depending on whether or not they get their way. So, again, thanks, John. The book is Defender-in-Chief, Donald Trump's Fight for Presidential Power. And again, the picture is a killer and you have to go to, he didn't tweet it because he's a smart man. He's not on Twitter. So you have to go to Ricochet.com to see the pictures that we're talking about. Thank you for joining us, John. I'm sure you'll gin up some other excuse to, you know, to crowbar

your way into the show again. And to be honest, we look forward to it. Thank you. Thank you, guys. The next photo I'm going to generate to get back on is me in a judo match with Putin. Yeah. I want before and after, by the way. alone of you and the Oval Office with a smiling Trump thumbs up will test the definition of tenure at the University of California.

Yes, it will. As long as they give me a big settlement while they kick me out the door. Thanks, John. John, you wrestling Vladimir Putin. That I would like to see. Pay-per-view, indeed. And I would put my money on John, because my mental image of him still goes back to the casino at 2 o'clock in the morning on great shape, he'd probably be a little stiff and sore the next day.

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So buy one, get one free at theragun.com slash ricochet. But only until Labor Day. Go right now. Don't miss out. Theragun.com slash ricochet. And our thanks to Thera Go right now. Don't miss out. Theragun.com slash ricochet. And our thanks to TheraOne for sponsoring this, the Ricochet Podcast. And now we welcome to the podcast San Diego Mayor Kevin Faulconer, the mayor of the largest city in the country governed by, get this, a Republican. And get this, in California. Due to term limits, he'll be leaving

office in November and we're eager to see what happens next. Welcome to the podcast. I have to ask, you know, someone can say, what's it like to be a mayor, a Republican mayor in California? Someone else could ask, what's the point? It's great to be with you. I'll tell you, gentlemen, look, it's, I've really tried to set the tone here in San Diego since I was elected about results and about showing neighborhood improvements, community improvements. It's what you're supposed to do when you're mayor. I've always thought it's less about partisanship and more about leadership. efficient and effective city, not just for the sake of efficiency, but really with the goal of taking the tax dollars that we have saved, the reforms that we have made, and reinvesting them back into communities and neighborhoods. Because, look, I think at the end of the day, the issues that I was elected to tackle affect everyone across the board, whether

you're Republican, Democrat, or independent. And I think it's, as I said, it's been incumbent upon me to show how we govern, how we show from that philosophy that we can put dollars back into neighborhood services, back where people expect them. So I think that's some of the reasons why we've had some successes here in San Diego that I'm proud of, the work we've done on, you know, infrastructure, housing, the environment. And I'd like to think it's something that we can be a model for other places across the country. Hey, Mayor, it's Rob Long in New York. Thank you for joining us. I have a silly question. I got another question. The silly question is this. When you go to the, you know, annual Association of Mayors dinner, where do you sit?

What we have now is sort of a rogues gallery of mayors. We've now been introduced to the mayor of Minneapolis, the mayor of Chicago, the mayor of Seattle, the mayor of San Francisco, for that matter. The mayor of New York, for sure. It's where I am. Do you kind of sit off to the side in your own little sad table and think, these guys, you're such jackasses, or are there commonalities? What does San Diego have in common with New York that San Diego is doing better? I like to sit myself right in the mix, my friend, and I'll tell you why. Because I think, again,

the approach I take obviously is a little bit different than some of my colleagues who I get along with just fine. But when we look at, again, some of the things that we've been able to do in San Diego, whether it's fiscal reform, pension reform, whether it's the work we're doing on homelessness, infrastructure, supporting our public safety, again, I think those are the things that I don't care if you're Republican, Democrat, or independent that people want me to focus on. And I've been pretty vocal and pretty active in terms about what I think are common sense issues. And when we focus on that, I think that's how you get the vast majority of the public to support it. Let me ask you a specific question then.

Just say, you know, in a bizarre world, you wake up tomorrow and you're governor of California. Do schools open in September? Does everybody have to wear a mask? Well, I'll tell you, one of the things that I've been pushing hard here is to give the school districts the local control guys based upon the facts on the ground. I think that's the only way that you can approach it based upon data, based upon what's happening in your particular county. I think when we do that, that's our best chance for success to get schools open, to get teachers and students back in the classroom as soon as possible, because I think parents want that. I know students want that. And I think we have to push on that,

because that's, I will tell you, and I've talked a lot about this, particularly over the last several weeks, very concerned about what happens to our kids to leave them out for a whole year, not only of learning, but socialization, mental health, etc. And look, our economy, our California economy cannot recover without schools reopening. I think that's just a truism. Right. So, Mayor, this is Peter Robinson here. First of all, congratulations on all you've done in San Diego, and congratulations on having the thick skin and the brains to be able to operate in a very difficult political environment. You have my admiration. Question about the politics that you just sort of, you just touched on this politics. On the one hand, you've got ordinary California citizens who need

their children to go to school. And on the other hand, you've got the teachers' unions. And you're not going to please them. So the question is, they're going to spend who knows how much money against you in any way they can, ads, on-the-ground organization, and so forth. Do you launch a frontal assault on the teachers' unions? Do you say, well, wait a minute, we can work this out at the local level? What are the politics of trying to do right by ordinary people in California without enraging the teachers' unions so much that they crush your candidacy before it gets started? Well, my goal is to finish strong here as mayor in San Diego. That has my laser focus. But I will tell you, as I've

been out talking here in San Diego, my experience has been, particularly over the last month, a lot of teachers are itching to get back into the classroom. They want to get back. And I can tell you, parents want to have a safe environment. It's not going to be just how things were, you know, back pre-COVID, but all the precautions that you need to take to safely open your classrooms, doing a lot outside to start, you know, all the monitoring, the metrics that you need to do. But getting kids back into a classroom safely and to get teachers back into that classroom safely. And like I said, my my experience has been particularly in the back classroom safely. And like I said, my experience has been, particularly in the last several weeks, and I've talked to our local superintendent here in San Diego, is let's all do

it based upon science and data. But I think you're seeing a lot of teachers that want to get back to work in the classroom, and that's exactly what we want, because our kids need it. You know, distance learning is not the same. I mean, we all know that, particularly for the young kids. It's something you had to do, obviously, in an emergency situation. But we need to take the precautions now to get folks back and to get them back safely. And if I may, another question about the politics of the state. And I'm trying so hard as I listen to you not to get my hopes up, because to be a Republican in California over the last couple of decades has been to be disappointed again and again and again. But I'm going to ask anyway, and I'm going to try to – I'll sound more skeptical than I'd actually like to be, just to protect myself from being hurt.

How's that? But what about the Republican Party across the state? If you're fortunate enough to be elected governor, from my lips to God's ears, the Democrats in the state legislature now have control super majorities, that is to say more than two-thirds majorities in both chambers. This is a really modest question, but on the other hand, it seems almost impossible. How can you get to one-third of the seats in the Assembly and the Senate being held by Republicans? Even that modest goal will require some revival of Republican organization across the state. How can you do that? Well, I appreciate that question,

and it's one that I have some very strong opinions on. Look, I think we have an obligation to offer California a GOP with a broad appeal again, because a vibrant, competitive, two-party system is essential for our state. And look, we pride ourselves on being a place where innovation is born. And I think it is time for our party to And look, we pride ourselves on being a place where innovation is born. And I think it is time for our party to tap into that type of bold attitude and modernize ourselves as a party that's in step with the residents that we want to represent. A party of solutions, a party that fights, right, for our middle class, and I think to your point, a party that can win again. Look, this is not easy with Washington shaking up the political world on a daily basis. That's why the California Republican Party must not be

a carbon copy of the national GOP. But each state is unique. It's a laboratory of democracy. And California Republicans need to create a party that is tailored to the people of our state. A lot of people are talking about our party's problems in the state. Some are even suggesting that we create a new party. I'm not one of them. I think instead of looking to Washington for the way forward or trying to invent something entirely new, we should look to what is working here at home. And our success, and I think our failure, is going to be more than just the GOP, because our state needs change. I think you're seeing that. I think that feeling is across the board, Republicans, Democrats, and independents. We've seen what's happened

with our state being the highest poverty rate, households of color nearly twice as likely to experience extreme financial hardship. I think our revitalized party in California has to be representative, realistic, and responsible. Representative of everyone in our state, realistic about the challenges that we're facing, and I think responsibly offering honest solutions to our biggest challenges. When we do that, I think not only can we win the debate, but we can win elections across the state. So, Mayor, it's Rob Long again in New York. So you're kind of describing a Republican Party in California that's a lot more liberal than the Republican Party in California, or at least the Republican Party operatives in

California are right now. how do you convince republican party in california move to the left because that's really what we're talking about now i think what i'm talking about it is a party again that that focuses on being representative but not being afraid to offer real common-sense solution based upon what we've been able to do it we are a party that stands for freedom, freedom of thought, religion, sexual orientation. But not only individual liberty, that's part of California's heritage, right? It's a classic conservative principle.

And I think that's one of the things that we need to push more on in California, again, with a focus on what we've been able to do in San Diego when it comes to fiscal reform. Because when you're taking care of our tax dollars in the right way, that's how we reinvest in communities and neighborhoods where you're seeing so many other places across the state, the constant solution to anything new is I want to raise your taxes. We've proven we can do that in San Diego without raising taxes. We've proven that we can reduce homelessness at 6% this year, 6% last year by being compassionate, yet by enforcing quality of life. I don't allow tents on the sidewalk in the city of San Diego. It is not compassionate to let somebody live and die on the street.

So we've been offering real-life solutions, but again, with tools that say, here's what we accept and here's what we don't accept. Again, I think these are common-sense ideas. I think these are common-sense principles. And I think that these are the type of issues, when we approach it in this fashion, that the majority of Californians will support. The cynic might say that what we're talking about here is having more efficient governments so that they can spend and intervene without incurring deficits, which seems to have moved the idea of the whole conservative principle over to the left. And someone, again, the cynic might argue that once you concede that principle that it is government's job to do all of these things, why would somebody vote for the people who seem

to be half-hearted and fiscally penurious about it, as opposed to the people who magically believe they can conjure all sorts of money from the air? Perhaps that's not a question. It's just, is this where the Republican Party is going to have to center itself? Yes, we're going to be involved a lot, compassionately, in every aspect of society. We just happen to believe in better finances and more personal freedom. Look, I think you can deliver quality services that the city needs, that its state needs, by being fiscally responsible. And I think too often what we have seen in Sacramento is the solution for every problem is send me more revenue.

And, you know, you pick the tax that you want, and let's put it on the ballot, whether it's, you know, property taxes as a first step to eviscerate Prop 13. You know, you name the group that says, send me more money, send me more money, without taking the necessary steps to reform. Look, when I first ran for office in San Diego at the city council, we were on the verge of bankruptcy. I ran on a platform of fiscal reform, pension reform. We put pension reform on the ballot in San Diego, and it passed with 65% of the vote.

And at the time, folks were saying, oh, you won't be able to hire anybody to come to your city, et cetera. I would invite anybody to come down and look at us. We're hiring good quality firefighters, as an example. It works. And I think we have a story that we can tell that says, when you are fiscally well-managed, that's how you actually return dollars to neighborhood services where it matters to people. My goal was to pave a thousand miles of streets in three years or less in San Diego when I got elected. We're going to end up paving half the miles of our city, the entire half of our street that worked by the time I'm done.

That never been done in the history of San Diego. And we do it. We did it by focusing on, as I said, infrastructure, neighborhood services, you know, rec centers, library hours. When you deliver on that, people will support you, even in a city that is 25% Republican registration, and I won with 57% of the vote the first time and 58% the next time. Again, that's how I think we build a party that is inclusive, based upon common sense, based upon principles that says we want to put the money back into neighborhood services that affect your life rather than squandering it to every type of new program that you can imagine. So, Mayor, you sound to me as though you're outlining a platform here.

Again, you're getting my hopes up. It's Peter Robinson again. This sounds like what Charlie Baker's approach is in Massachusetts. Good government. Make it work. I'm not going to try to push social issues in a state that just doesn't want to hear about them. I'm going to keep the budget under control and make the state function well. It's what Larry Hogan is doing in Maryland. Is that roughly correct? That's the political opening you see for Republicans in California? Rob, I'll tell you, I think, Peter, I mean, excuse me. It's Peter right now, but that's all right.

Yeah, Peter, yeah, no. Peter, we are talking about delivering quality services. And when you do that, people don't care if you're a Republican or a Democrat or an Independent. People want to know that their neighborhood is working and it's functioning. People want to know that then when they look around, they've seen a difference on the streets in terms of homelessness. They want somebody who's not afraid to get in there with new ideas, who can solve problems about the issues that they care about. It's not about political rhetoric. It's about what are the demonstrated results that you can do? What are the actions that you can take to actually make a difference. When we do that, you can win. You can win in any city across California. And again, I think we are missing that competition of ideas and that competition of the approach. We've had some

success here in San Diego. All of the budgets that I've been able to get across the finish line, I've done with a majority Democrat city council. But I use the power of communication. I use the power of common sense and making investments where I think San Diegans had wanted to see those investments. And when we do that, I think that's our best chance for success. Well, yes, and that's great. And thank you for giving them roads, nice, new, clean roads. As somebody who just had to pay an onerous, huge, enormous tax bill to have the surface streets redone outside of my house, it made me think, wait a minute, what are the taxes I'm already paying for? And I was, of course, silly boy, don't ask, just run away, please vote for us again.

But San Diego, clean streets, smooth streets, no small thing. Thank you for joining us, Mayor, and I hope you come back and speak to us when it's governor instead of mayor. Gentlemen, looking forward to it. Thank you much. I really appreciate it. No, thank you. Thanks, Mayor. Thanks, Mayor. Bye-bye. You know, when we talk about exactly what the parties are going to become and how they're going to make their appeals,

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the Ricochet Podcast. Well, we have something coming up here in just a second, and it's obvious that I'm filling time by flapping my gums here, waiting for the sounder that will encroach and crash upon what I'm saying. But no, we will say something. The James Lylex Member Post of the Week. This has been a terrible day for interruptions for you. All the interruptions you expect, you just didn't get.

I know. But I kind of like having my paradigm shifted around. Speaking of paradigms being shifted over the course of the millennium, this week's Post of the Week, Skip Sewell, on Hagiosophia and spiritual reclamation, quote, The world is littered with buildings and sites that once belonged to others. Sometimes those stubbornly remain. More often, they've faded away.

In many cases, we should be very glad there are no such troublesome old ritualists about. I do not care to see the Aztec sun temples be anything but museums or out-and-out ruins. Theirs was a cult of pure evil and industrial level of human sacrifice. The Phoenicians were likewise a sacrificial cult whose old worship sites should never be given back. I don't think anyone's longing for return of the Roman or Norse gods either. Christians largely knocked over or repurposed the old temples, and there should be no modern obligation to give them back,

despite what neo-pagans insist. To the victors go the spoils, especially after the lapse of a sufficient period of time. For many buildings, the time is long since indeed since they served their original purposes." But let me add, but. And the whole post is an interesting look at the way time and empires and beliefs ebb and flow and wax and wane over places that remain. I mean, Istanbul used to be, what is it,

Constantinople, I think there's a song about that. Why they changed it, I don't know. Nobody's business with the Turks. think there's a song about that. Why they changed it, I don't know. I bet it's, you know, it's another way. And it's a fascinating story about how the Roman Empire died but still lived on in this place that seemed lost to the West for a thousand years. And how they had

Caesars and Senators and the rest of it. And how it evolved into the strange thing that it was until it eventually got rotten and fell at the hands of the Islamic invaders. And the church became a mosque. And now it's a mosque again. It was a museum under the secularists, and now Erdogan is trying to curry some favor, and he's turned it into a mosque. And, I mean, there's lots there, and there's lots there in the Post.

Why is it a Post of the Week? Because it interested me, and I commented in it. Let's be honest. But also because, again, as I like to say in the member feed, you have the depth and the breadth of what Ricochet is all about. If you think it's just a bunch of people throwing rocks at each other about Trump or this or that or the other, it's not. It's a full-bodied, it's a salon like they had in Paris where people get together and talk about all manner of things. Nothing is off the table in the member feed, and that's why it's the best place

for civil conversation to be fun. Skipsal has been a member of Ricochet since the beginning. Put it this way, Skipsal was still Hagia Sophia. He was still the Holy Wisdom Church before it became

a mosque, and then a museum museum and now a mosque again. I don't know where I was going with that. But he's, I mean, I've been reading him and commenting and we've been exchanging since the beginning of Ricochet. And it's always great when people let fly. And also, like I would say, like on that post, what I loved about it was that there's a lot of pictures there, too. I mean, I'm not ashamed to say I like pretty pictures. And I sort of composed it and made it into this beautiful thing, which is great when members do that, but they don't have to do that. But it's great when they do.

It's like a group, a really, really thoughtful, fun, sometimes, or am I just mischaracterizing this, that it seems that the entire discussion of that era consists entirely of assertions made through the lens of the Crusades? That all of the aggression took place from the Roman Catholics meddling in a place that they didn't belong. Oh, I see what you're saying. Yes, I find that more than disconcerting. I am permanently infuriated about that. In some little capsule, in some little box in my mind, just my anger about that never really goes away. That the notion that the Crusades were a counterattack,

they were an attempt to reclaim lands that had first been conquered by Islam. Now, there's a lot to to mourn about the crusades they got out of hand in quite a few ways including in constantinople when which crusade fourth was it they the the constantinople was the great glittering city by comparison with the rome was just any american city anti-European city at the time. And the Crusaders got there and sacked Constantinople. The Crusaders did more damage and killed more Christians and enslaved more Christians than they did Muslims.

I mean, half of them didn't even get to the Holy Land. Well, they did establish they established a kingdom, a county, and what was the third thing? It was a barony. And they established control of the Holy Land for a century. Anyway, the point is, the point is it's a counterattack, and to start

history with the crusade invasion of the Muslim world is just the wrong place to start. It's ignorant. At least it all should be the same. When you go to Spain, people say things like, look at this wonderful Moorish architecture. Well, I mean, okay. That was there because

they invaded. To say the Alhambra is beautiful, it is beautiful. To say it's essentially Muslim, it's fine too. To say even that the Arab Muslims invaded North Africa and went up north into Spain all the way to Toulouse in France, that's fine too. But then to characterize any of the other aggressive transfers of power or projections of power as pure evil is sort of silly. I mean, the Crusades were a failure even in the time they were a joke. I mean, Chaucer made fun of them because they were so ill-conceived

and they were basically smashing grabs along the way. Well, that's hard to argue. No, I don't think it's hard to argue at all. It's just a question of knowing the material. No, no, there were quite a few remarkable events associated with the Crusades, including the creation of a century-long control of what was then unironically referred to as the Holy Land. It was a remarkable achievement.

Yeah, I suppose, but there was also a thousand, I mean, 500 years of Crusades, and many of them ended up in creating hostage kings along the way. I mean, yes, you can cherry-pick the glorious moments of any moment, but the truth is the Crusades in general were a smash-and-grab, which is one of the reasons why they were so popular. No, no, no. You can't say that was the motive of the

Crusaders. The notion that it was a smash-and-grab and that it was a younger son... No, no. That's all been well... No, that's just... The newer history on that is much more complicated and richer.

These guys actually believed what they were up to, by and large. They might have believed it. I have no idea whether they believed it or not. I just know that the actual effects of it, as you traveled from Northern Europe to the Holy Land, an awful lot of Christians were robbed and enslaved and kept hostage.

And an awful lot of Christian kings were deposed. An awful lot of chaos was brought to Christian kingdoms and Christian civilizations by other Christians before you even set foot into the sands of Syria or now the Lebanon. No, that's a mischaracterization. Skipsal. Yeah. I'm calling on Skipsal to devote his next post to it. The meta point, to bring you both together and clap you on the back and say we're all friends, is that the standard leftist educational narrative is that the world is a peaceable place consisting of stable societies made of ceramic and that the only action that has ever been done has been for Western nations to go there and break them.

And it seems remarkably self-induced idiocy to pretend that people are not acquisitional and everywhere and that war and invasion and the rest of it is not the norm for humankind. The question is how it's done and what are the results and all the rest of that, but I guess that's too nuanced. It's too nuanced for some of these people. But I look forward to the podcast that Peter and the hardcore history that Peter and Rob will do next as they debate the Crusades, because really, honestly, I mean, it's almost refreshing to have people argue with vehemence about the Crusades at this point, when we seem to have things going on today. But,

you know, again, it's entirely possible that 100 years from now, people will look back at this period that we're in right now and see not COVID and see not the war and see not Donald Trump or any of that, but just point out to private space travel and the rest of it and how that was the most influential thing to come out of 2020. Entirely possible. Before we go, gentlemen, one last question. Peggy Noonan in the Wall Street Journal asks if we should burn the Republican Party down. I miss this piece, but she quotes, many, if not most of those calling for burning the whole thing down are labeled never Trump. And a lot of them are character, character logically quick to point out the finger of blame. They're aiming at Trump supporters in Congress. Some of

those lawmakers have abandoned long held principles to show obeisance to the president, Peggy writes, and his supporters. Some, as you know, if you watch the supposed grilling of tech titans this week are just idiots. So she's saying they're, they're, they're, they're, they're dumb. They're useless. They're shiftless. They have absolutely no center. We should burn the party down, maybe, at which point my question is to, and then replace it with what, as the millennials say? Well, she wasn't saying that, she wasn't agreeing with that, right? She was saying that that's an attitude that's being brooded about that she disagrees with. Is that right? I'm just throwing it out there for you to say whether or not you agree with it. Because we know Rob is such a staunch defender and admirer of the Republican Party as currently

constituted. Well, no, look, I think it's also silly. It's like one of these silly things where we decide what the party is going to do, what's going to happen. The reality about the party is the party is made up of people who vote for the candidates in the party is the party is made up of people who vote for the candidates in the party. And kicking the Republicans out in the same way voting for Trump or voting for Obama can be done by precisely the same person who's voted the opposite way two years ago or four years before that. So the idea that somehow there's a party that you can pull levers

and strings and kind of over-strategize is kind of silly, which gets all parties into trouble. You know, the Republican Party, if the polls are to be believed, if they hold, is looking at a disaster in November. And sometimes those disasters are really good, very good for the institution. The institutions, like, recover from them. Sometimes they come back and they hit harder and they hit harder and hit harder until they figure it out. You know, when Mondale went home after winning one state in 1984, the Democrats came back and nominated basically a younger Mondale. They named him Dukakis, who I think went home after winning two states or three states. They didn't really get their act together until they nominated a very centrist, ostentatiously centrist, ostentatiously probably performative, but

nonetheless a conservative appealing candidate who then even only won a plurality. So it takes people a long time to learn these lessons. I'm sure many people in the French army in the early 1940s saying, well, we've learned some important lessons here. That's the good thing. One last thing I'm going to ask you guys here in just a question in just a second here, but first because I've got to say this now because you'd just dump out of the podcast if I waited.

Keep in mind, there's a great, almost big issue, big story of next week type thing coming up for Peter and Rob here. Have to tell you this podcast. Have to tell you. Want to tell you. I'm proud to tell you this podcast was brought to you by the Bradley Foundation, TheraOne, and ExpressVPN. Support them, you support us, vice versa, and you get great stuff.

And if you could take a minute to leave a five-star review at Apple Podcasts, your reviews, of course, will allow new listeners to discover us, and that keeps the show going and the site going and keeps us here for the 2024 cycle and all the rest of the wonderful cycles to come. All right, guys, question. Biden, VP pick, announcement, imminent. Who should he pick? Peter? Whom should he pick? Whom should he or who will he? What do you think? I don't know. I'm sitting in California and all the news is dominated by Kamala Harris.

I suppose that's a likely pick. I almost hope he will pick her because as far as I can tell, people don't like her very much. She doesn't seem to be a terribly effective, excuse me, she got elected to the Senate in California. Of course, they like her that much. But when she was running for the presidency in the Democratic primary, she didn't really get any place. So I guess I'm hoping he picks her. Yeah, it's a hard one. I don't really know. To me, I think the smart move for him is to nominate Tammy...

Why do I say... Tammy Stockman. I don't know. I think there's a Tammy Stockman in my life. Yeah. She sort of has it all. Appeals to suburban moms. She's got her legs shut off in Iraq. She's a war hero, Purple Heart. dependable decency will help win former Trump voters, disaffected Trump voters, and the suburbs enough to win a lot of those swing states that have been in play, question mark.

Be good in Pennsylvania, be good in Florida, probably be good in places like Wisconsin, maybe even be good in places like Michigan. That seems to be, to me, that would be the smart choice, I think. But I have no idea. I was just reading this morning about Susan Rice, that she's limit to the political stupidity that a candidate can engage in when he or she thinks they've got it in the bag. Right. That's no like that's that's the way you the way you lose an election is first you have to be convinced you're going to win, I think. And that's when you stop playing a very, very cautious game, which is what I would recommend to all candidates. I mean, I always recommend caution, keep your head down, don't say too much when you're running for office. Well, there's still going to be the worries that he's going to pander to the left. So I think it's possible to bring a lot of people in the pro-life side in,

which is why I believe that Kanye West is the obvious choice. And that'll be what Biden announces in a couple of days. So that'll leave us there. You guys don't buy that. Okay. I didn't intend for you to buy that at all. On that grotesque note of failure, I end this and thanks everybody for listening to the podcast. Thanks to our

guests, Peter, Rob. Have a great week. And next week, of course, we'll convene again and ask each other, how you doing? And maybe we'll have a little Tony Soprano swagger to our voice by then. Who knows? See you in the comments, everybody, at Ricochet 4.0. Next week, boys. Next week. It's the edge of the world in all of Western civilization

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