The Ricochet Podcast - It's Over

Episode Date: November 15, 2013

Direct link to MP3 file This week on the Ricochet Podcast: ObamaCare crashes and Haley Barbour advises on how the GOP should react (and why governors generally rock). Later, Heritage Foundation president Jim DeMint on the think tank’s mission, an alternative to ObamaCare, why health care’s tanking is a teachable moment (and and opportunity for the GOP), and whether there could be a 2016 convention... Source

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Send love. Onpust. For your world. T's and C's apply. See onpust.com. It's the Ricochet Podcast. I'm James Lilex, and the music files are gone because my computer crashed. Hmm, a lot of that going around these days. Well, not to worry, we've got Rob Long and Peter Robinson standing by. Guests today, Haley Barber and Jim DeMinto of the Heritage

Foundation. Let's have ourselves a podcast. Welcome, this is the Ricochet Podcast, number 190, coming to you on the day that King Barack Obama himself unilaterally lifts Obamacare from the brow of the land. Ha, that get your attention? I thought it might. So pay attention to this. We are brought to you by audible.com. I don't want your ears to just slide over that fact because it matters. They're the leading provider of spoken audio information and entertainment on the internet and you can listen to audiobooks whenever and wherever you want. Go to audiblepodcast.com slash ricochet, and you'll get your free audiobook and a 30-day trial.

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Those are the old term in the days for a female student in college, a co-ed somehow. Well, co-eds are plenty in the news this week, as Rob and Peter are well versed to tell me. Guys, I was lying about the thing being completely lifted by presidential order, except maybe not. There's a meeting at 1130, isn't there? There's some news coming out today that says the White House may have realized the magnitude of the disaster they have caused. First of all, hello, Peter and Rob. Secondly, what do you guys think is going on? Have at it. Well, hey, before we keep, before we go, could I just say, if you are listening to this

podcast and you are a member of Ricochet, welcome. We are pleased and honored to be fellow members of Ricochet along with you. If you're listening to this podcast and you are not a member of Ricochet, look, we need you to join. I know I say it every week, but we really do need you to join. The future of Ricochet obviously is based on how many members we can get. new here, trying to create a membership community so that our conversations are fun and smart and witty and civil, which is what they are. So please, go to Ricochet.com and join, and have great conversations between and among our members and contributors, and you get a lot of goodies too, including

Friday Night's podcast, which came out on Friday night, which was kind of fun. No, Rob, you may not say that. You asked if you could, and you can't. I can barely, actually, but there you go. Peter, there was a discussion in the member feed, which, of course, only members get, about suggestions and improvements with various podcasts.

Once again, split right down the middle, people seem to be, as to whether or not they want to open with a little light banter or go right to sinking their incisors into the juicy-mink rib of the news this week. So I'm going to skip asking you any personal information whatsoever, and we're going to try this week with just hard jerky. Right to it. News you can pick out of your teeth. Go. What do you think is going on in the administration's head right now about Obamacare? The administration is panicked, that's clear.

A couple of Democratic senators, including Joe Manchin of West Virginia, who's not up for re-election next year, but who is in a state that's becoming more and more Republican, and Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, who is up for re-election last year, at least those two, maybe more as of this morning, have made it clear that they would back legislation that would enable people to keep the health care plans that they are now losing under Obamacare. My guess, based on 10 minutes of Googling around the web and trying to figure out if anybody's leaked anything, is that this morning the president is going to announce that he

will reverse himself and support just that kind of legislation, whether the Landrieu measure or not, I don't know. However, again, I am not an expert. I'm not Ovik Roy, who actually knows for sure all about the interior complications of American healthcare. No, he doesn't. He's a liar. He's a liar. He's a liar. No, no, no. Hold on a second. He's a liar, according to John Gruber, who was on Hewitt yesterday and talked about how Roy is clearly and obviously and intentionally misstating what this law is going to do. Anyway, go that he supports legislation that would enable people to keep the health care policies that are now being canceled. This is a purely political move because the insurance companies involved have already counted on canceling these policies. Reinstating them is complicated financially. Raising the capital, readjusting rates, renegotiating with state legislators.

It's a complicated, slow-moving process. It's not as if Congress can enact legislation tomorrow, waving the magic wand, and the people who've lost their policies get to keep them. It just doesn't work that way. So I believe the president is setting it up to say, I, Barack Obama, have changed my mind. It's the wicked insurance companies now that are going ahead and canceling your policies. Blame them. I think it's raw politics of just the kind we'd expect from him.

And it's also not going to work. I mean, there's absolutely no way. Obamacare is all one piece. You can't – it is a house of cards. You can't fiddle with one side of it and not fiddle with the rest of it. So what it is, is this is the lowest point of the Obama administration. This is the worst day of his political career, maybe even his life. This is probably the darkest hour he has ever faced personally,

and I couldn't be happier. Pop popcorn, get yourself a chocolate sundae, get the blanket on the sofa, turn it on, and watch this, because this is the end of the Obama era. It ends today. There's absolutely nothing this man can do or say or enact or fix or adjust or compromise at this point. It's over. Yeah, it's a wonderful thing to live in an era where the consequences of a progressive action are immediately understood. Usually it takes generations, decades for these things to rumble through society and wash away its underpinnings. This was really fast. You know, what's interesting here is that...

This was like flipping a switch in October. And in the middle of November, the entire thing is discredited. What's interesting here is that this is just math, really. It should be reassuring to us. Because this is actual math. really. This is actually, it should be reassuring to us because this is actual math. This is something that people said, the reason, liberals always said before Obamacare,

Americans, you know, all these, millions went uninsured. We've got to do something. There's a healthcare system in crisis. And then they would show these poll numbers. They would poll Americans and they'd say, well, how do you divide your healthcare plan?

They'd say, well, I think it's pretty good. And it was sort of, you know, 80 percent of Americans, that's pretty good. A lot of people were uninsured, didn't like it. But Americans liked their plan. No, I get it. I figured it out. It's pretty good. I mean, it's too complicated every year. And they send me, you know, two phone books that I have to sort through to find a doctor when I change plans or whatever. But I don't know. It's pretty good. And that was the third rail of American politics. It wasn't Social Security. It was this, because most Americans were kind of happy with what they had. And the only way to fix it on a grand scale was to take it away from them. I mean, Obama didn't, I mean, he didn't invent this solution of taking people's health plans away from them and sort of reforming the whole system.

Liberals have been trying to do that since 1972. But they haven't been able to do it because most Americans like their health plan. And he has discovered that 2 plus 2 equals 4 even for Barack Obama. And that is why today is a great day. There should be some fanfare here.

This is fantastic. Blue Yeti in post introduced the sound of thousands cheering, if you would, right about this point. Actually, back it up earlier to where Rob said it's over. Today it's over. Then insert the sound of crowds cheering, if you would, please.

It is over. I would agree with that. It is completely over politically in the sense that as of yesterday, Democrats in the House, there's a piece of legislation that's been introduced in the House that I think is going to be voted on on Friday, although I'm not sure they had scheduled it for certain, that would do much the same as Mary Landrieu's legislation over in the Senate. It's a cleaner piece of legislation for complicated reasons. In any event, a number of House Democrats were already declaring that they were likely to support that legislation. As I've mentioned, at least two Democrats of whom I'm aware, maybe more at this hour, have said that they're going to support the law. It has occurred to them

that Barack Obama is a lame duck who furthermore doesn't care about Democrats in the House and the Senate in the first place. He got them into this jam. And as they began to realize how bad it was, you know that before they started going public earlier this week, trotting down to the White House, coming out in front of the West Wing and saying to the press, I just gave the president a piece of my mind. Before the Democrats went to that extreme, you know they were on the phone to the White House saying, hey, listen, fellas, we've got a problem here. You guys need to fix this. And they would only be where they are now if the White House had said, no, we won't fix it. So this is just, this means that Barack Obama will get no hearing,

even from his own party in the Senate or the House. There will be no moving of legislation. Harry Reid now has to make a choice between the White House and preserving Barack Obama's dignity and his own members in the Senate. It's over. The White House has lost control. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there are three things happening here. The one thing that's happening is you're seeing the Democratic Senate fracture because there are senators up for reelection and they are going down. And they fear and they are correct to fear that they're going to be – they're the first – they're the infantry of voter anger.

The famous second lieutenant in World War I had a life expectancy of something like 17 minutes. Well, that is a Democratic senator up for re-election. They are the first. They are going to go over the side of that trench first, and they know what's coming, and they're furious that there's a White House that's intransigent and won't let them do it. The second thing that's happening is they've been looking at these numbers now

for three and a half, four weeks. They've been taking poll numbers, from what I hear, every single night. This is what Clinton did during Monica Lewinsky. It was very expensive. It's not a question of choosing one or the other. It's a question of, they were always going to be there. All senators feel like they're better than the president. They felt like they're going to be there after him anyway.

But now they realize they're going to pay for his stubbornness. The third thing that's happening is, it's obvious to everybody how they got here. They got here because Barack Obama's an egomaniac. He's an arrogant egomaniac. He could have changed it. He could have adjusted it. He had all that time to adjust it. This is not surprising to him. He didn't because it would have been a gift to the Republicans. He didn't want to delay it because that would have been good for them. The Republicans would have won one and he doesn't want to give them anything. So I would be looking now for any kind of like rat in a coffee can kind of panic to try to get this conversation back where he wants it. I don't think he wants it to

be about the insurers. I think he wants it to be about Republicans are unwilling to give you your plans back. Republicans did this to you. That's why he wants to give you your plans back. So Republicans say, no, no, no, no. So now Republicans have to figure out, do we help him out? Do we not help him out? That's what he's trying to do.

And I mean, good luck, but it's going to sound like yesterday's song. It's not going to work. It's a rat in a coffee can, yes, but a rat in a coffee can with firecrackers going over the Niagara Falls. It is a beautiful thing, yes, but somehow I can't see the president himself ever submitting to panic. I mean, what does he ever have to run for again? This is like him being in mid-flight and hearing that the air pressure is low on the tires of Air Force 2.

What's the betting that Saturday morning he will be out playing his 151st round of golf of his administration? Oh, I don't think he may be. Sure he does. I mean, look, this is all legacy issues. He's not impervious. Every president at this point thinks about legacy.

He's going to get one. He's got one. It's called Obamacare. He called it Obamacare. And now it's going south. That's hard. He picks up the phone. He looks for support.

He's not going to get it. All the people who told him it's okay, it's okay, there's only one now. And that's Nancy Pelosi. And even Obama knows she's a delusional lunatic. He's in big trouble. I mean, enjoy it. I mean, I feel like I should – I want a box of donuts and a big pot of coffee and just kind of like pretend it's a rainy day. This is great. Well, it's interesting that they're going to end up doing what all of the terrorists and the bomb throwers and the arsonists and the rest of them were trying to do,

which is just hilarious. The DOP was supposedly dead because they were trying to stop Obamacare, and now, of course, the administration itself is looking to do the very same thing. When it comes to hostages, though, if you search for the words hostage and presidential at audible.com, something actually does come up, a book called The Hostage. And it's a series of book by a guy named W.E.B. Griffin. And I'm trying to figure out if he's related to the other Griffin

who wrote a lot of mysteries, because this seems like a new series. And all of a sudden, I'm curious, it's about a guy who works for Homeland Security. And that puts to mind the story that we read just the other day of one of these Secret Service agents being kicked off of his job because he left a bullet behind in the room at the Hayes Adams where he was pleasuring a woman. And you wonder, what is it with these guys exactly? Well, any story of that sort can be found

probably at audible.com, and they will read it to you so you don't have to sit there and wear out your eyes with the wearisome task of actual reading. No, just have the Whispersync technology. Sync it to any device so you can always pick up where you went away. And if you go to audiblepodcast.com slash ricochet, you will get an audiobook of your choice and a free 30-day trial. And do it because that's your way of thanking them for sponsoring this, the Ricochet Podcast. Anyway, we... At LiveScoreBet, we love Cheltenham just as much as we love football. The excitement, the roar and the chance to reward you.

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matters to discuss with Haley Barber. He served as the 62nd Governor of Mississippi from 2004 to 2012. Before that, he was Chairman of the Republican National Committee, managing the 94 Republican-surgent GOP control of both houses of Congress for the first time in 40 years. And wouldn't we like to see that again? We welcome him back to the podcast.

Hey, well, thanks. I'm glad to be back. Actually, I was the 63rd Governor of Mississippi, but Wikipedia has it wrong. Busted. Governor Peter Robinson here. Here's what the last couple of weeks reminds me of. Obamacare has collapsed so fast. We'd all been saying that it would. We'd all been saying in principle it cannot work.

It's doomed in principle the way it's constructed. It can't work. And then lo and behold, it didn't work and it collapsed fast. And what this reminds me of is the way Republicans spent four decades saying that the Soviet Union had to collapse. And then when it did, it happened so fast that it caught everybody by surprise. And you will remember because you were in Washington in the administration at the time, that the very first thing George H.W. Bush did as president was call for a six-month study of relations with the Soviet Union because things were happening so fast

the administration was essentially stunned and didn't have any idea what to do. What should Republicans do now? We're getting to the point where we we can just stand back and gloat well first of all peter the the worst of all blockers yet to come the computer problems with all right failures and all that is is catastrophic it is an embarrassment

but it is not the worst. The worst is the millions of people who are losing their health insurance. And this idea that the administration is now trying to spread is gospel truth that it's going to be 5 million. Well, it's going to be way more than 5 million. There were two government studies done in 2010. One of them said 40% to 67% of the individual market will lose their coverage. That's about 15 million people in that market. But the other one said as many as 51% of people who get their health insurance through their employer will lose their insurance.

That's 93 million people. So I don't know that it'll be 93 million, but the idea that it's going to be 5 million is just a ruse that they're trying to hide behind. Secondly, not only are people going to lose their coverage, what they're then offered is going to be way more expensive, higher premiums, higher co-payments, higher deductibles. Then finally, people are going to find out, I can't see my doctor anymore. My insurance won't cover it. I can't go to the hospital in my hometown because it's not in the network of the system that is the only policy I can buy. This is going to get worse and worse and worse because it's going to be less about the process of signing up,

and it's going to be more about the loss of coverage, the cost of coverage. You and I both said when this all started, the outcome is already predictable. The average American will pay more and get less. And that's exactly what Americans are finding. So we don't need to take our foot off the accelerator because the worst is yet to come. And the worst will come when the employer mandate kicks in next year? That's right. And we're going to – this deal, there are lots more shoes to drop. We will look back at Obamacare. Mary Landrieu, Democrat of Arkansas, narrowly elected last time,

up for re-election next year. Mark Begich, Democrat of Alaska, defeated Ted Stevens by only 1%, notwithstanding that Ted Stevens was at that point under indictment for corruption, a charge of which he was later totally cleared. Even at that, Begich only won by 1%,

and now he stands for re-election next year in Sarah Palin's home state. Mark Pryor of Arkansas, a state that has been trending Republican, not Democratic, ever since Bill Clinton left for Washington. If you're one of these, and as we know, there are more than a dozen other Democrats up for re-election next year in states that are essentially Republican. If you're one of them, what do you do? Well, I'll tell you what they're doing.

They're running from Obama like scalded dogs. They know that this is poison, and they all voted for it. To a person, they all voted for it. To a person, they all voted for it. All of them voted against, you know, Mike Enzi, Republican senator from Wyoming, put legislation, an amendment on the floor of the Senate saying people are going to lose their health care insurance, and let's have self-standing legislation that will protect them. Mary Landrieu, Mark Begich, Pryor, Hagan, go down the list. They all voted against it.

And now it turns out that they're all trying to scramble back to find a way to get out of the vote they cast. Despite President Obama saying, if you like your health plan, you can keep it, there was a huge number of people saying publicly there was research being done by the Obama administration, by the Congressional Budget Office, that put the lie out of that. And yet these Democrats decided we're going to go with Obama. This was like it was a religion rather than a policy issue. Hey, Governor, it's Rob Long in Los Angeles. How are you? Thanks for being with us. Hey, Rob, I'm great.

I got a question. Am I a bad person? Because I am really enjoying this. Well, no, you know, you're really not. And I'll tell you why. Because when people do foolish things that they have to not tell the truth about in order to hoodwink the American people, and they fail, they deserve to get their nose rubbed in it. Because that's the lesson we're taught as children.

You know, when you act bad, then you should be held up, held accountable, get your spanking, let other people know, because that'll make you more likely to repent. Unfortunately, there is no repentance in the Obama White House yet. I was going to say, I mean – so I have two questions. One, if you're – I mean you're one of the smartest guys in politics around. If you're there in the Oval Office now, what advice are you giving him? And then I want to ask you the same thing about our side. I mean, you know, at some point, the ball's going to get passed to us. What do we do? Well, ultimately, we have to have a plan. The good news is we have had

plan after plan after plan. They never get any news media attention because the news media knows they can pass the House, they'll never be taken up for a vote in the Senate, and then the president would veto them if they had it. But particularly for the 2016 presidential election, but I think helpfully in 2014, we need, here's what we'd do, but right now we need to keep the focus on Obamacare. One of the stupidest political stunts in my career was when a handful of guys in the Congress, led by Senator Cruz, shut down the government and threatened for the U.S. government to default on its debt. And for 17 days, that took the American people's attention away from the collapsing Obamacare scheme. Now, the one thing we need to do is remember what Napoleon said,

never interfere with your opponent while he's in the process of destroying himself. Yet for the first half of October, Obama was trying to sink like a rock, and the only thing holding him up was the Republicans. So we've got to quit doing that and get back focused on policy, get back focused on why this is bad policy and ultimately what we would do differently. But that's what the people care about. Right. But it does seem like – I mean I was just saying before you got on that I'm really enjoying this because it feels to me – and maybe you can, you know, you can, you'll be a better judge of this. But it feels to me like today, of all the, today's the day that Obama's supposed to give a speech in which he says you get to keep your health plan, I've changed my mind, or some last desperate measure. To me, this feels like, the past three weeks, it felt like this is the end of the Obama administration. This is the end of the Obama administration. This is the end of the Obama era.

He's going to be kind of a walking zombie for the next couple of years because he's got no juice. That's what I would say, but is there a last-minute, you know, perils of Penelope kind of last-minute dodge he can pull? I mean, is there a rabbit that this guy can pull out of his hat at this point? Well, there was a pro football game this weekend, or maybe it was a college football game, where on the last play of the game, the team that was behind threw a 60-yard pass that got blocked away, and then one of the guys for the defending team

that was in the lead jumped up and knocked the ball back up in the air, and one of the offensive players caught it for a touchdown, tied the game, went on the – didn't change the outcome because of what happened in overtime. My point is, yeah, every now and then there's a miracle pass, but what we're about to see is the president today is going to say, by administrative action, I'm going to do X. You know, a return to the imperial presidency. Nancy Pelosi's saying today, we don't want legislation. Well, it took legislation for this to get passed, and what he's going to try to undo by executive fiat is legislated law in the United States. And he has no authority under the Constitution to undo legislation that has been passed that he signed.

But you watch. And now the question is, when he is the imperial president overriding everything else, is he going to continue to get the longest wet kiss in American political history from the liberal media elite? And that will have a lot to do with what happens. Because if they say, Obama's come to the rescue. He's solved the problem. Then that'll have one effect. If the American people see through it, what the imperial president gives, the imperial president can take away. Well, he can do it just in reverse as well. But we'll see today. It's going to be a real test for is he going to continue to get this treatment that no president in the history of the country, I don't believe, has ever been treated this way.

Haley, Peter, here one more time. You said a moment ago that Ted Cruz, Mike Lee, the others who held up the work of the government for 17 days, That was the stupidest political stunt you'd seen in your career. Question. You served as chairman of the Republican National Committee. What does Senator McConnell, the minority leader in the Senate, what does John Boehner, the Speaker in the House, what tools do they have at their disposal to make sure Republicans pull together at this point? There really is not much way for them to discipline their members, is there? Well, there's really not. But first of all, hopefully people learn the lesson.

Now, if people learn the lesson from this, that would be very helpful. The idea that there's some schism between Republicans who identify with the Tea Party and other Republicans is not right, because we agree on policy. I bet Haley Barber and Ted Cruz wouldn't vote differently on policy one time out of 20. But they made this a big fight about tactics, and hopefully they've learned their lesson. And the shame of it is, Peter, you know, I was chairman of the party the last time we did this. It had the same result. You know, we got the blame.

Clinton got a big recovery from it. And the American people just don't understand why this is a good enough reason to shut down the government, much less to default on the debt, which would have had unbelievable economic consequences. But we didn't do that, thank goodness. But I hope everybody's learned their lesson. You're right. When we don't have earmarks, there is a loss of a tool there. But the other thing, Boehner has such a small majority. If 15% of Republicans won't follow his leadership on a particular issue,

that means 92% of Republicans are following him. But his majority is so small that if he loses eight of them, that gets him down to about 215 votes. That's not a majority. He's not going to get any Democrat votes because they're being very disciplined right now. So hopefully we'll get a lesson here. Cooler heads will prevail, and we go forward, and we're going to have more debt ceiling. We're going to have more run out of appropriations. So we're going to see.

But I am hopeful that we've learned a lesson. Before we let you go, Governor, one question. We've been told that Hillary is inevitable. 2016 is going to be the year of the woman. There's nothing we can do about it. Does the rollout of Obamacare affect her reputation? Has she become the grandmother of old care and the poster child for socialized Madison? Well, of course, you know, if you'd had me on in 2007, I would have told you Hillary was inevitable.

And I've been talking about 2008. So maybe I'm not the right person to ask about her inevitability standing. But sure, it's going to hurt all the Democrats. She was a big promoter of it. I saw her husband on TV. He knows how to get some space between him and a problem. I guess he's had a lot more experience than most people. But his advice was clearly given publicly to the president to give Hillary some space.

But she's right in the middle of this. I bet there are a hundred quotes of her in favor of Obamacare or some reasonable facsimile thereof. But I think she's talking big for the Democrat nomination. But, Lord, if you've got Obamacare, I would hate to have to run on Barack Obama's foreign policy record as his Secretary of State, because they're not anywhere in the world. And I mean this literally. Not anywhere in the world where America is as respected,

much less more respected, than it was when Barack Obama came into office and Hillary became Secretary of State. Yeah, well, by the time they get done grilling her on Obamacare and socialized medicine, she'll probably want to change the conversation to Benghazi.

We'll have that one again. We thank you so much for being with us today, Governor, and we hope to talk to you again down one again. We thank you so much for being with us today, Governor. We hope to talk to you again down the road. Always fun. Thank you. Thank you, Governor. Bye-bye. In 2007, it did look like Hillary was absolutely inevitable. Well, remember, she ran really strong.

I mean, she had a pretty good primary season for part of it. She won more primaries. When I was in New Hampshire that year. And the Clintons had that whole state wire. They were busing union guys up. And they won. So she's got an impressive political operation. I think there are a lot of people who feel like they betrayed her last time

to go with a new guy. And they kind of want to come home. And I'm not sure she's going to be tarred with the Obamacare brush. people who feel like they betrayed her last time to go with a new guy, and they kind of want to come home. And I'm not sure she's going to be tarred with the Obamacare brush. I think that's going to be Joe Biden who has to fight that. Well, what Haley said was interesting about Bill Clinton trying to put some distance between, a man who knows how to put distance

between himself and something else. Yeah, exactly. That was Bill Clinton walking toward the door and turning around to Barack Obama and saying, you better put some ice on that, which is the extent of the medical care. Exactly what it was. That will happen in a few days. When this is all over in the American medical system, which for all of its troubles was generally regarded as a wonderful thing of beauty if indeed you needed access. It's not as if the sheikhs of Saudi Arabia were flying to Marseille to have their treatment done.

But nevertheless, when we have this... Sorry, before we leave, Hillary, does anybody want to make a bet with me right now? I'll bet you that I was trying to get the commercial in there right with a segue from the medical treatment to Ovik Roy's book about Medicare failing the poor. I'll lay you five to one that that's what I was doing. Didn't you read the Let's Critique the Podcast post? Everybody said we love James' segues and we love them even more. I'll take the bet. I'll take the bet.

How can you love a pumpkin pie after it's been put in a blender and set on puree? Then it's no longer a pumpkin pie. Sure, it is a pumpkin latte. Then it's a smoothie. A pumpkin pie. Sure, it is a pumpkin latte. Then it's a smoothie. No, but watch it. Oh, a pumpkin smoothie. Watching you smack us down just makes it more beautiful. My $10 says Hillary will not be the nominee.

That's it. Go back to the segment. I'll take your $10. I mean, I don't know if I even agree with that bet, but the $10 is like, oh, yeah, okay. Yeah, I think she might. The Democratic Party is the party of youth, of change, of progressivism. Hillary Clinton will be three months older when she announces for president

than Ronald Reagan was at that stage. She'll be 69 two weeks before election day. He didn't turn 69 until a month after he took office. She's old. I think she's old. I think she's over. I agree with all those things but I still think she's going to be the nominee because I think that in – out on the hustings, competence is what's going to be – it's not about ideology. They're going to say it's about competence, and she will look competent.

This administration is just a complete disaster, and people will think, oh, you know what? Let's get the librarian, this old school marmin. She knows how to run things. We know she can run things. Providence doesn't win Democratic primaries, though. I can see the appeal of that argument in the general,

but in the primaries? Democrats want excitement. But you know what? They can, there's enough excitement on Hillary, the first woman, blah, they'll be all right.

They'll be all right. They'll swallow hard. I mean, there's nobody else. Ten bucks. It's an early bet, but ten bucks. All right, blah, blah. They'll be all right. They'll be all right. They'll swallow hard. I mean, there's nobody else. Ten bucks. It's an early bet, but ten bucks. All right. You're on. I'm sorry, James.

What were you saying? This week's feature title is A Broadside, How Medicare Fails the Poor by Ovik Roy. We had him on the podcast last week. He will explain how people in Medicaid have far worse outcomes than those with private insurance. Remember private insurance? It used to be a thing. And no better outcomes than those with no insurance at all, of course, which will be all of us by the time we're done with private insurance. Remember private insurance? Used to be a thing. And no better outcomes than those with no insurance at all, of course, which

will be all of us by the time we're done with Ocare. Ovik explains why, I'm sorry, Ovik explains why this is and how Obamacare doubles down on the broken Medicaid system. Oh, great, of course. He's one of the best voices on healthcare right now. And you can go to encounterbooks.com and get this broadside for a special price just because

you're a listener to Ricochet. The coupon code Ricochet, one R, at the checkout will give you 15% off this or any other title in the universe that they have there at Encounter. So go there and get this. Get informed. Have some facts ready at your fingertips the next time you debate somebody who got all those talking points from Gruber. Anyway, it's interesting what Peter said about who was it who said that the Democrats are all about progressive and youth and the rest of it? They're about youth in as much as they can

tell them things and pretend to give them things to get them along. There's nothing youthful about their ideas. They're inherited from the beginnings, the first stirrings of the previous century, and the only thing they've really cast off is eugenics, and that they're just a little quiet about. So youth are useful to them. And I wait, and I wait,

and this might be an inflection point where the youth of America finally realize that this organization is set up to dupe them, to give them toys while taking away their money to feed the system that pays off the old people. I mean, that light's got to go off at some point, doesn't it, don't you think?

I agree. I think we... Yes. Well, then let's ask somebody who might be steeped in these things such as jim dimitt he's the president of the heritage foundation in 1998 he was elected as a republican to the first of three terms of the u.s house representatives and he kept his promise to serve only three terms his reputation is washington one of washington's most principal conservative leaders grew after his election to the Senate in 2004. The 55th is served from South Carolina. I hope I got that right.

He continued to advocate limited government, individual liberty, a strong national defense, and traditional values, core tenets of America's founding and heritage's public policy mission. We welcome him to the podcast. It's great to be with you. Thanks for having me. And you were just talking about one of my favorite subjects, young people. The most ripped off group in the country today are our college students and young folks who are going to have to pay the bill for everything we're doing right now. Senator Peter Robinson here. You know, maybe it'd be a good idea if you began just with a moment or two telling folks what heritage is

and what heritage does. Well, heritage has been around 40 years, and we advocate those policies that help build an America where freedom, opportunity, prosperity, and civil society flourish. So we focus on a limited government and a vibrant private sector because we know that's where freedom and opportunity comes from. For years, we've done the best research and policy work, I think, in the country. What we're doing now at Heritage is not only being the best at policy development, innovative policies, but we are developing a state-of-the-art communication system. My background is marketing and advertising, and I'm tired of having the best ideas and having them lose in the elections because we're not connecting with people. And so we're going to

do more and more to communicate our ideas in a way and provide them to our allies in the conservative movement all across the country to make sure that we present the best policies and we connect with people in a way that helps them know these policies will make their life better and our country stronger. The other dimension we have now at Heritage, our sister organization, Heritage Action, is building a grassroots organization all over the country that's trained, informed, knows how to be involved in the political process, and knows how to make a difference in Washington, as well as state-level policy development. So that's our three-pronged attack is a solid policy, good communication,

and then through action, just a grassroots army that can help turn our country around. Now, if I'm saying to myself, as I am saying to myself, Obamacare just fell apart even faster than anybody could have expected. At the moment, Republicans don't seem to be offering alternatives. If I want to go to Heritage and see what the alternatives are, what are the various plans, proposals that could be set in place instead of Obamacare? That's the sort of thing I could find on your website. I listen for, how do I, how do I do that? You definitely can. We just, uh, just came out with

a paper that summarizes a lot of the things we've worked on for, for years, but it's, it's heritage.org. Uh, and you'll find the alternatives to Obamacare there. But you just mentioned Obamacare's falling apart faster than we thought. This was not by accident. The start date for Obamacare was January 1st, but we knew October 1st was a sign-up date, and we've spent a lot of time and effort all around the country helping Americans know that the implementation date was October 1st.

We had done our research for three years. We knew how bad it was going to be, what it was going to do to jobs and the cost of insurance. And so what you see now is the work of the Heritage Foundation and a number of other groups that helped to make America aware that this thing was going into effect and we need to do everything we can to stop it. And the alternatives are pretty common sense, Peter. I know I came to Congress primarily to work on issues like health care. I want every American to have the opportunity to have a health plan

that they can afford and own and keep. It's crazy we have a system where employers can buy health care, but it's hard for individuals. Individuals lose their health care every time they change jobs or every time their employer decides to change health insurance plans. So individuals need to own them. And to make that happen, we need to give people the same tax treatment we give companies so that they can deduct it. We need to allow individuals to buy health insurance anywhere in the country, not just the state where they live. We need to allow small businesses, associations, and groups to pool their employees and buy insurance together so that it would be less expensive,

just like with larger corporations. And certainly we need to have the reform of the lawsuit system that adds so much to the cost. And there are a number of states now that have shown the way of how you can develop an insurance system for those who are high risk in preexisting conditions. But the fact is if we let people buy and keep health insurance when they're young, they could buy it at a lower price and they wouldn't lose it at a time when they develop health problems later in life. So pre-existing conditions could pretty much go away if we created a system where people could own and keep their own plans.

Hey, Senator, it's Rob Long in Los Angeles. How are you? Good to have you here. Hey, Rob. I got a question. If you were meeting with a bunch of Republican legislators for around breakfast, what would you say, what would be a good political strategy for them to follow for the next six to nine months? I mean, you know, we are looking at a White House in disarray. We're looking at what is an increasingly brighter picture for Republicans in the midterms. You mentioned young people at the top of your – when you first joined us, and young people seem to be at this point understanding the problems with Obamacare, and that could be a gateway.

That realization is a gateway drug to understanding the problems with liberalism in general. If you were going to give two or three key points, you'd say to Republican legislators wondering, okay, how do we play this so that we don't blow it? Because every Republican listening to this out in America is saying, don't blow this. This is a golden opportunity. Well, you laid this out very well, because this is a teachable moment for all America. Obamacare is the poster child for what liberal progressive policies are. They pass them under false pretenses, make all these false promises. They don't work. And most of the

programs don't work. But this is more personal because people are actually being affected individually. Something like Dodd-Frank, which is a disaster, it doesn't work, but people are not as aware of it because it's not affecting them personally. This is something that we need to keep in front of the country. We need to help every American understand that this is what it means when you centralize power in Washington, when you take your problems to Washington and create a new program, we need to keep talking about how it's failing individuals, what it's costing, and Republicans need to avoid taking the bait that the president's trying to give them right now.

He's doing everything he can to change the subjects. He wants them to bring up amnesty because he knows that divides Republicans, or they'll be trying to pass a U.N. treaty for the disabled or something else in the Congress. It divides Republicans. If Republicans are foolish enough to let him change the subject, then they don't deserve to be in power. The fact is Obamacare is the best uniting force for our country, for the Republican Party, that we could have right now. And some Republicans resisted making a big issue of it. We needed to make a big issue of it. But now Republicans need to come together and remind America we did everything we could to stop this thing.

Now the only recourse is the next election. Do you think we're in good shape? I mean, I keep looking at these poll numbers and thinking, wow, this is a completely unexpected turnaround for the Republican brand. Going into this year, at least for me, I was thinking, well, it's going to be uphill to get the Senate back. How does it look to you right now? Well, I want to remind everyone that we don't advocate for Republicans, but conservative ideas. But as it happens, Republicans tend to be

our primary distribution source of our ideas. And this is an exciting moment for us because we have a plan to help America see how this old concept of federalism, which is really about bringing dollars and decisions back home to states and to communities and families, that America is a ground-up country. And every time we try to centralize decision-making, it divides us and it hurts us. And so what we want to do as a foundation is continue to communicate the idea that the decentralization of power is what's going to restrengthen America. out and talk to Americans, instead of actually trying to alienate conservatives with so many of the elected leadership in Washington, keep repeating that they think conservatives are dividing the party, when in fact the ideas that conservatives talks about are now uniting

the country. People want less spending. They're afraid of the debt. And I've been traveling all over the country the last few months I've probably been in 60 cities and we have people coming together from all walks of life who were concerned about the direction of the federal government in this idea of bringing the decision-making and dollars back home is something that can catch fire if Republicans understand it

yes if republicans are smart that line on which i like to arm on so much of our momentum and enthusiasm seems a founder i'd jim's life here minneapolis i i have to ask you mentioned something about a you know you and treating the dis disabled if the republicans oppose this then of course they're seen as nasty old men who don't want curb cuts for wheelchairs in Djibouti. We're always portrayed as the party, as the movement that opposes, that says no, because they have big government to push through their wads of laws, be it Obamacare, be it Dodd-Frank,

and what we have, we don't have anything of that size and magnitude in that language. We have the belief in the private sector, in the states, in the individuals, and it doesn't have the same sort of monolithic coherence that their ideas do. How does the Heritage Foundation propose to let people know that the alternative to progressivism is not a nothingness, an anarchy of letting everybody sort it out for themselves, but actually a far more intellectually and logistically nimble operation that lets the great American characters sort things out for themselves

where it needs to be done. How do you get that across? We show people what works, and a lot of times it's telling stories. We've got a lot of great stories to tell now because we've got a number of states implementing conservative ideas, and you can see the real difference. You can see what happened in Wisconsin when they basically overcame the government unions and reshaped their whole economic policy.

Jobs are moving to Wisconsin. A lot of folks have dropped out of unions. What we're doing at Heritage is telling these stories all over the country. The states that lower their income tax or get rid of it are attracting businesses. States that do tort reform are attracting the best doctors. You have states like Pennsylvania and in the Dakotas developing their own energy. They're creating jobs and giving opportunities to people. We have to use real people. Use the names of the children that got a D.C. scholarship and suddenly got out of a failing school. Now they're in college. These ideas work,

and we have to connect with people about what really works in their lives. And we need to contrast that by going to college campuses and helping young people see that what they've come to be used to in making their own decisions, going on the internet, buy the songs they want instead of the CD that has most songs they don't, that Obamacare is just what they don't want. Someone making them buy something, mostly what they don't want or need, in order to give something to somebody else. As I said before, this is a teachable moment. We need to use, whether it's the UN Treaty, we can say, folks, we've learned that Washington

doesn't work. Their promises are false. What's in this treaty is not going to help someone in a wheelchair in other parts of the world. What it's going to do is impose a lower standard here in this country as so many of these other treaties have done. But we have to be better at connecting, and we also have to paint a picture of how liberal progressive policies have been in force in Detroit for 60 years. We know where that ended up. The same thing's happening in Illinois and California where these states are moving towards bankruptcy.

We've got a great story to tell. I just don't think conservatives have been very good at telling their story. And we need to talk about what we're for and how it works, and we need to contrast it with what doesn't work. And Obamacare is going to be a huge help there. Hey, Senator, can I ask you one last question? Just as an old, you know, as a political mastermind for many years, I heard somebody give a very good, passionate argument

for holding the Republican National Convention in Detroit. And to say, you know, this is what liberalism is, this has got to change, Obamacare equals Detroit, all that, sort of bring it all together for the American people. Do you think it would be a good idea or a bad idea? Oh, I think it's a great idea. First of all, it would show we're compassionate, we're trying to bring some economic revenues to Detroit, but the whole convention could be contrasting the failures of liberal progressive ideas with the successes that we see around the country. And that this whole concept of moving dollars and decisions back home is the way to make America work. And we need to tell a story that America is a ground-up nation. That's what made us exceptional in the first place.

When millions of people make their own decisions about what they do and what they value, what has hurt us is the centralization of economic and cultural decisions. That divides our country. It weakens us. We've got a great story to tell, and that's what we want to be a part of at Heritage, is just to raise the the level of communication in a way that actually connects with people and helps them see their ideas will make their life better

i don't think we've done a good job of that but uh... i think your idea of going to detroit is a good way to make the contrast between what what works and what does uh... rob does make a good point but I would also add that perhaps you should consider having it in Fargo, North Dakota, in the Fargo dorm, because then people will make a connection, perhaps, between the Republicans and the fact that when they drive around town, they see gasoline now around here at $3.04.

$3.04, and that's not because of a single government policy. It's despite that. It's the initiative and the action and the technology and what North Dakota was able to do. Wait, Jay, gas is what where you are? $3.04. Holy God, I've got to get out of L.A., man. It's $5 here. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

Well, when you show people that, when they see the gas come down, and they realize that it's not because taxes were lowered, not at all, and it's not because the government said, go ahead, you may drill on the lands that we allow you to drill. It's private enterprise that has done this. It has made us to the point where we never thought we would be back in the 1970s during the energy crisis, that we actually have energy independence staring us in the face, not because we went to biomass or solar or wind or any of the rest of it, but because we did what

we know we could do. And that's a positive story. And I would love to see, well, I expect to see, and everyone who follows Heritage knows that that's the sort of thing that they'll highlight. We thank you so much for coming on today. And we hope to speak to you again in the future when we talk about how the Republican resurgence has gotten control of both houses of the presidency, and we're squandering another opportunity handed to us by history. I hope not. I hope not. I don't want that to happen again.

That's why we've got to elect the right people, not just the people where they are next to their names. But listen, thank you both. Thank you, Senator. Thanks, Senator. All right, bye-bye. Yeah, Rob, three-buck gasoline around here. Wow. It's pretty good.

And for those of us whose families are actually in the petroleum distribution business, it's absolutely fabulous, and I'll tell you why. It means that people got more money to go in the store and buy milk. I learned that from you. I remember reading that years ago in your blog, before we even met, years and years ago, and you sort of laid it out. People always say, oh, well, you know, those guys who run gas stations are cleaning up because gas is $4. You know, no, no. There's something called, there's an economic principle called replacement cost. And the whole point is that you go into the store and you buy a Diet Coke or whatever.

That's what that is. And I think, of course, that's exactly what that is. And that said, the Diet Coke's not anymore at a gas station. So the margins are kind of skinny no matter how you slice it. Margins are skinny and the costs are great. You never know when the EPA is going to come along and slap this, that, or the other thing on you for some infraction you never expected. You never know exactly when people go to their pumps. One of the magical things now, and think of this, this is a business, gas stations, that actually make their money on people going inside the store, but the one thing

that you have to provide people to assure that they will patronize your establishment is a machine that obviates the need to go into the store. In other words, if we would like it, you would have to go inside with a credit card and stand there at the counter like you used to have to do and get your water and the rest of it. But no, we have to put little machines out on the pumps so that people can just pay and go. And those machines themselves in the winter climb, as we learned a few years ago at our own station, when it snows heavily and it's snowing in the pumps and people walk in and

they put their credit cards and jam it into the slot, they push snow into the machinery, into the electronics, which melts, fries it, and then you've got to replace every single card reader on your 12 pumps and there goes your profits for X number of weeks. So, yeah, Rob, you're absolutely right. The idea that, oh, these guys are making out like bandits, or the people who wanted to protest and boycott the BP stations are on here after the oil spill. It drives me nuts.

But yet, when you see those signs, $3.04, $0.05, $0.06, and there's a story on the front page of my newspaper today that we're going to make more, get more dinosaur ichor out of the ground than we actually bring in from the rest of the country. I love going back to a few years ago when we were talking about peak oil. Everybody remember peak oil? I remember, yeah.

I mean, what's interesting is there's no, I mean, there's no umbrella argument for why they're stupid and we're smart. But the stars are aligning a little bit. I mean if we can just hold on to those two or three or four very key or even three key ideas, we can really actually change things around. I mean I still think Obamacare equals Detroit. These are the same things. The same people brought you both. Well, we have to use their terms.

Sorry to interrupt for a second. But the reason that I brought up peak oil, to tie into what you just said, is that one of the key ideas we should push is that what we are seeing is peak socialism. We are seeing the overreach and the inability of this ideological concept to adapt to the real world in which people are individuals and make their own decisions and money is involved. We need to use their terms. We need to state that what they are doing is not sustainable. That's a holy word, right? I mean, I'm sure, Rob, that people look at your scripts and wonder, is this a sustainable comedy show you got going on here? Well, that's exactly what they ask. Weirdly, that's the phrase we've been using for years,

which is like, does this have any legs? Can it go? Can it go 100 episodes? Can it go 200 episodes? Oh, yeah, absolutely. So if we use these terms, and Peter, perhaps you can chime in on this. Do you think that that would be a good way of adapting to the minds of the young voters? I mean, these are the guys. If you look at these horrible ads that are coming out of Colorado that were just ripped to shreds this week in the web, the way they try to appeal to the younger, progressively minded demographic. Have you seen these? The bro-surance ads. The bro-surance, yeah. Dude, let's get insurance, man.

Yeah, thanks, Obama. You're a dude. Yeah, all that stuff. It's fantastic because it's Bob Hope in a hippie wig. Remember those old Bob Hope sketches in the 70s when he would pretend to be a hippie and they put this sort of, even then he was 70 years old,

and they put him in a hippie wig and he'd kind of say, groovy man, and everybody would laugh. That's what it is. It's old people trying to be young, and there's nothing worse. There's absolutely nothing worse or more idiotic than an old person trying to relate to the young people. And look, I mean, the thing about this, I don't want to go too far with this because I'm getting excited and optimistic

and I hate that. But the thing we're seeing here is that once one thing falls down, once one thing disappears, then all the other stuff kind of falls away too. All the other stuff seems like it's tainted um it's like uh you know it's like that movie they live you know when the the aliens have taken over and uh you can only see them it just looks like we live in kind of a nasty kind of crappy kind of world uh no one

really knows why but then when you wear a pair of special glasses, you can see that some people are aliens and some people are weird, creepy aliens. They've invaded us 20 years ago. And all the advertising, when you wear the special glasses, you see just subliminal messages saying obey and submit and things like that. That's kind of what's happening now. Americans are putting on the special glasses and they're seeing this president and this presidency and this entire movement for what it is,

which is a series of lies about stuff that you can get for free that you can't, about we know how to do it better when we don't, about shut up and take your medicine when they don't want to. And it kind of feels like, I mean, I hate to say it,

but if we don't blow it, it could be a really big watershed moment for the conservative, the very few but core conservative ideals. Go ahead. No, you're getting carried away. Sometime today, Barack Obama will say, I now support legislation, or he may even do it by executive order. He may just waive the Constitution of the United States one way or the other within the next 48 hours.

He will say, we've changed the law or the regulations. If you have a healthcare plan that you like, you really may keep it now. We've already discussed that that's now impossible in most cases, as insurance companies have already planned to drop such policies because they've been planning for more than a year now to comply with the law. But he'll say, no, no, no, now it's not my fault. It's the insurance company's fault. And then the Republicans will say, what you did, Mr. President, is unlawful. You are disobeying. And he'll say, no, no, let's not talk about legal niceties.

There was a problem. I'm trying to help people. Now Republicans and insurance companies are standing in the way. The argument will be nonsense. It will be transparently nonsense. But the New York Times will back him up immediately. Paul Krugman will start writing columns about what Neanderthals, what cruel people, Republicans and insurance executives are. This isn't over yet. Who cares? There,

have I helped you? Do you feel pessimistic again, Rob? I know you're only happy when you're feeling upset. I'm feeling a little happier now that I'm a little sadder. So yes, thank you, Peter. There we go. Who cares what the New York Times says? Who cares what Thomas Friedman says? Unfortunately, you heard Haley Barber say the question is whether the liberal press will continue the longest wet kiss in American history. It doesn't. Alas, we right-minded people don't care. Alas, it does matter. Yeah, it matters what the story is.

But I have a feeling that it's going to be hard. Once you see the strings, it's hard to not see the strings. And I don't think it's going to be about the big, bad insurers. If it is, I think it's a terrible idea. I think because the insurers have a huge amount of information, and insurers – remember, the insurers were in the room, so they'll sell them out. I think it's going to be about the big, bad Republicans, and it's going to be awfully hard to make that argument that Republicans have anything to do with this. And he's going to have to basically say, you Republicans are now refusing to give me essentially parts of the deal that I refused to accept a month thing for him to say and I just don't know if that noise is going to work anymore but either way I'm enjoying what I'm enjoying now I have a very Buddhist attitude Peter

I'm just in the present I'm very present to what's happening now and I'm here and I'm enjoying it and I'm just experiencing this feeling there's a moment that comes however when the people who don't listen to the New York Times or care and don't listen to Tom Friedman or care, the people who watch Jon Stewart, the younger cohorts who get their information in a truthy sort of way and it's delivered

ironically for their hip sensibility and spread it throughout their own social networks. These are the people who are going to be given permission to laugh at the president, who are going to be allowed now to point and say that the emperor has no sharp creased trousers, shall we say. There's no way that you can look at these California ads, the brochurens, the hosherens, as they call the other one, where you've got some giggly woman who's standing next to a complete douchebag and she's all happy because she's got free birth control, to look at these things and say, this is what they think of you. Do you comport with it?

Is this how you see your own self? And there's no way that the target market can look at these things and not feel insulted and wonder exactly how tone deaf, in addition to being incompetent, these people are. So yeah, you guys are right. I mean, Rob's right to enjoy it because we're seeing what from the beginning looked like us to be just gaseous adjuration based on absolutely nothing. And it's it's this is the point where stuff comes

out. I mean, have you not heard a million little leaks of senators come out and say he doesn't have our back? He doesn't understand this. All these angry meetings that we're hearing where where senators are going with Harry Reid and having hammer and tongs discussions about what this is doing. This is the point where knives come out and people talk. As we said at the beginning. I love your formulation that kids, that Jon Stewart is now going to begin giving kids permission to laugh at the president. That's the way cultural cues get propagated through the society, right?

Jon Stewart thinks this guy is uncool and laughable. Yes. Thank goodness for that. We still live in a society in which the New York Times matters, but less and less all the time. And Stewart will do so in a way that communicates to people that they were not wrong in the first place

to be fooled because what they had believed in was the sort of thing that they should believe in. They had seen a messiah who fit all of the characteristics and when that guy comes along, we'll be just as supportive of him as we were of the guy who turned out not to be him at all.

But, for now, it's, you know, there's almost a level of sort of mule-ish dorkiness that is descending on the president. The guy who was the coolest man ever, who could, you know, there's almost a level of sort of mule-ish dorkiness that is descending on the president. The guy who was the coolest man ever, who could, you know, with a Newport hanging out of one corner of his mouth, who could shoot from half court and sink the bucket, is now a guy who's got a BlackBerry that he can't figure out, and has no idea how these, you know, who actually sits down at a computer and says, you know, where's the any key? It says hit any key. Where's the any key?

And I just love that. I love for that whole mood, that mantle of invincibility and technocratic sophistication and all-encompassing skill that was ascribed to him. It's so delicious for everybody to now look and say, you know what? This guy is aloof, disengaged, believes that simply crafting a speech about something and commanding others to make it so is the equivalent of actually doing something. He has done, well, let's look across the pond, shall we? As somebody put out this week, the president has, last week, would seem to be accomplishing two things. Taking away Americans' health care and letting Iran have nukes. Yeah, that's a lot.

Those are hefty accomplishments, James. Have either of you actually been following what was going on in the Hittite? Who saved our bacon, perhaps, in the negotiations with Iran? France. Yeah, well, they didn't work. They were declared a failure. Right, because of what? Because the United States stood firm with Israel

and firm in the idea of nonproliferation and firm to keep the sanctions on and bleed the Iranian dry, or because, like they've done with everything else, they simply acquiesced in the hope that making nice would make the brutes respect us some more. And it was up to France, for God's sake, to say no to Rand Can Avenue, maybe because they're

a little closer and within ICBM range. So in other words, do you see anywhere that the administration can pivot right now where they have a strong hand and people will say, that's right in their wheelhouse? No, but foreign policy never matters, really. This is the biggest story. It doesn't really matter. It's not going to affect him much. His best bet is to

get the Republicans to do something stupid and to make it about them. That's his best bet. I just don't think it's going to happen. Which is fine, because people are really saying, I get it, I get it, I get it. Where's my health care plan? I get it, I get it, I get it. Where's my health care plan? I get it, I get it, I get it. Where's my health insurance policy?

And I think that's his problem. I mean, look, one thing we know for sure is this guy is going to be the most unhappy former president ever because he's not like Clinton who loves celebrity. He's not like George W. Bush who just wants to go home and play with his dogs. This is a guy who's not charmed. You and I disagree a little bit on this, Rob. This came up earlier in the podcast, but I kept my lips buttoned. I will only make the point

briefly now because I know we all have to run. Rob has to drive to North Dakota to buy gas. I read him a little bit differently. I read him as the kind of person who right about now is saying, well, okay, I don't really care if you people get the health care I think you should have.

All I really care about is that I tried. I believe that Barack Obama is the kind of person to whom really the highest value is moral preening. As long as he gets to show that he is morally superior to everyone, and if other people are not up to his high standard, if Americans are really not worthy of Obamacare, then he's going to be happy enough to go play golf and then accept the presidency of Harvard or Columbia, and he'll be perfectly contented, having demonstrated his moral superiority,

to give speeches and write books and collect speaking fees for the rest of his life. That's the way I read the guy. He wants to be morally superior, not a man of accomplishment. Well, then that is, then that was, we should be looking for, that you could be right. And then we should be looking for those signs coming up where, where the, the subtext of all of his, all of his comments tend to be, you know, who's at fault here? You, American people.

You're just too dumb. That's exactly, exactly, exactly. That's what I expect to start happening. I think in some ways it's already started happening. Yeah, that'd be kind of hilarious in a way. Because the truth is, that is, I mean, if you're any politician and you suddenly are not popular, that is the natural, like, hey, idiots, it's me over here. I'm the same dude. Come on.

Get down on a bended knee again. I like that. If only there was a historical precedent of a leader ranting in a bunker as he was being defeated about how the people of his nation had completely abandoned and disappointed him. I think you're right, Peter. You're absolutely right. It's our fault, and it doesn't matter to him. And I think the perfect metaphor for his life will be his retirement, where after having made a half a billion dollars in speeches, he will go to Hawaii, stand on a cliff,

and symbolically, a wonderful moment, just sit there and fire golf balls into the sea, one after the other. We will thank him when he's gone for going. We'll also thank Now and Counterbooks.com for sponsoring the podcast and Audible.com. Go to AudiblePodcast.com slash Ricochet and get your free you know about this by now, 30-day trial and book

and sign up and do so to thank them for sponsoring this, the Ricochet podcast. We've got lots more to talk about but that's why we've got a podcast coming up next week. I believe guest-free, just the three of us wrangling and grappling and locking horns and agreeing and having fun and the rest of it. And as for everyone else, we

will see you in the comments at Ricochet.com. Peter, Rob, have a great week, and we'll see you down the road. See you next week. Next week. ¶¶ I'm gonna play the bird One, two It's time to shy away It's time to shy away One, two It's time to shy away

It's time to shy away Oh, still fire is sweeping I have seen today Burns like a flame Oh, God, baby I've never lost the way Oh, tiller It's just a shot away Ricochet. Join the conversation. ¶¶ Thank you. If you want to try, then this is the way.