The Ricochet Podcast - Launch It

Episode Date: March 13, 2014

Direct link to MP3 file This week on the podcast, as we get ready to finally launch 2.0, the boys are feeling jolly about Jolly, and offer their theories as to where the heck that plane is. Then, North Dakota Senator John Hoeven on his impending trip to Ukraine, presiding over a boom state, and the coming war with…Iowa? Finally, we give you all the news that’s fit to hear about 2. Source

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Well, I'm not a crook. I'll never tell a lie. But I am not a bully. I'm the king of the world! Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall. It's the Ricochet Podcast with Peter Robinson and Rob Longsback, rested and ready to step on some segways. I'm James Lilacs and our guest today is Senator John Hoeven from the great state of North Dakota. You know, the place with all the gas and oil and jobs. Let's have ourselves a podcast.

There you go again. Yes, this is the Ricochet Podcast number 206, and it's brought to you, as usual, by Audible.com, the leading provider of spoken audio information and entertainment. You can listen to audiobooks wherever, whenever, however you want. Just go to audiblepodcast.com slash ricochet and get a free audiobook and a 30-day trial. And of course, we'll repeat that address ad nauseum for the rest of the show

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Soon to be bigger, better, greater, faster, more fantastic, and probably for the first note resembling the rollout of the American healthcare system under Obama. But Rob, take it away. Tell people what's coming up and why they should pony up. I will tell you, if you are listening to this podcast and you are already a member of Ricochet.com, we thank you and we welcome you and we're glad to be members of Ricochet with you. If you are listening to this podcast and you are not a member of Ricochet dot com,

you probably want to know why you should join. Well, for one thing, you get these podcasts, this podcast, the Glop podcast, all the podcasts, all in one giant super feed if you're a member and it's a lot more convenient. You get to participate in the conversations in the member feed,

which happened on Ricochet.com, which are where our members and our contributors mix it up and talk about whatever's going on in the world in a civil and polite and still witty fashion. But you also get to participate early in the launch, which happens this weekend at Ricochet 2.0. We'll talk a little bit about that at the end of the podcast. But just know that if you have not joined and you want to join, join now because prices are going to go up.

Not a lot, but it could go up a little bit. We've heard our members say, hey, listen, you need to raise your prices, which they actually have, which is crazy, which is great. And we're very grateful for that. And so we'll be launching a couple new tiered memberships coming up. The front page will look a little different, a lot more features, a lot more stable. The platform is a lot more stable. And we'll be adding features between now and probably the end of the summer,

and we're very excited about it. But doing now, lock in the low, low price. Tiered memberships, which means, of course, that everyone is equal to Ricochet. Some will be more equal than others, though. There will be a little inner party where you can go and flash your platinum card and go and sit in the lounge. There will be benefits to being in the platinum level. But we should – One of the benefits, of course, will always –

Yes, Rob, you're breaking – We'll talk about this later on, get into it more deeply. You're breaking up like a Malaysian jet there, which leads to the question, Peter, welcome, mourn. What do you think happened? What do I think happened to the Malaysian jet? Everybody's got a theory on this. I have heard everything from the lizard people to orbital lasers, everything. I have no clue.

That's so nice to hear. It's so nice to hear somebody just absolutely profess ignorance. Oh, truly. I mean, and every morning for the last whatever it has been now, two or three days, I look at the newspaper. And what amazes me is that there doesn't seem to be, you know, usually it's a matter of hours before they can interview experts. And there's a consensus among the experts that this, that, or the other must have happened. Nobody seems to know what happened. Like everybody else, I think I'm hoping, in a weird way, I'm hoping that the plane got hijacked,

that those people are still alive somewhere and they just dropped off the grid. Maybe I'm being a little Western, oxy-centric, thinking that perhaps in the Orient, the tracking systems may not be quite up to ours, and it's a little easier to hijack a plane and get it lost. Who – I have no idea. What do you think? Well, when people say that it was terrorists, and it can't be terrorists because we haven't heard any demands.

We haven't heard anybody take responsibility for it. Look, if you watch the last Batman movie, Bane didn't put out a press release after he hijacked the plane, sawed it in half, and stole the scientist, okay? It may not necessarily be the kind of – have we lost all of our belief in secret organizations like Smirsh and Spectre that are able to carry these things off without press releases? I don't know. I'm like you.

I'd like to think it was hijacked and it's in a volcano mountain base underwater somewhere. But I don't think so. Rob, have you heard that? Go. Well, I mean they turned off their transponder, right? So something happened in the cockpit. We know that. We know according to the engine data because the engine sent data apparently.

We know there was nothing wrong with the engine, so they say. Look, this is a real mystery I mean as a writer it's these things almost always turn out to be the thing that you expected them to be oh yeah well I guess it was just a crash right

but isn't it also weird now we're engaging breaking the ricochet code of conduct to have this conversation but isn't it weird also that there are all these Now we're engaging – we're now breaking the ricochet code of conduct to have this conversation. But isn't it weird also that there are all these suicides of people in the financial business? There were four or five of them recently, strange ones, some of them that were unexpected, kind of a wave. I mean, I know this is true. A wave.

Some people in Singapore, too. I don't know. It's just if you were inclined to the conspiracy theory, this past two weeks have been rich fodder. I'll say that. How does this week stack up against previous weeks of suicides of people in the vast, far-flung, well-populated financial sector? Well, that's what you want to know, right? I don't know what that is, but there are people – I mean I read this in the Financial Times, not some crackpot place, although there are crackpot places to read this.

Right. And it just seems kind of strange. And this disappearance of the jet seems strange. They're not related, I'm sure. But boy, it has my screenplay antenna up. Could I raise a point here? How could – what you're suggesting, Rob, is that there's some deep, widespread conspiracy taking place. Yeah.

And that the three of us who are so often – you in particular, Rob, so often accused of being members of the establishment haven't been – somehow you missed the call. Shouldn't you of all people know? Yeah, that bugs me, by the way. Shouldn't you of all people know? Yeah, I know. call shouldn't you have all people know should you have all people know yeah i know you're the you're also the only guy i know who graduated from yale and wasn't asked to be in the cia i was asked not to be i think probably something's wrong rob yeah i think something's wrong i think maybe the establishment is changing or something or or just it's uh a crazy a crazy world in which everything is topsy-turvy, including – Yes, dude.

While we get Rob's signal fixed and cleaned up there, it is a crazy, topsy-turvy world. A world in which, for example, you have a movie now set on an airplane, a Liam Neeson killing people drama. It's a whole new genre. And spoilers here. Turn off your sound if you don't want to hear this, but apparently the people behind the attacks, it's a 911 vet, who's angry that security at airports isn't tighter, that TSA actually doesn't strap on a latex glove up to their elbow

and go up in your cavities. He's the victim and of course the muslim doctor who i believe what i understand is in in in full headgear and the rest of it is is the good guy finger wagging from hollywood shame on you crude americans for not realizing that of course it's the 9-11 vet who's uh killing on the airplane. Sometimes, though, it's not conspiracy. It's coincidence, right? Yeah, well, mostly it's coincidence, right? Although, I mean, let's be honest, it's almost always coincidence. But my antennae are up. And, you know, when crazy things happen, like planes disappearing and suddenly Americans deciding they don't want more Democrats in the Congress like they do in Florida, apparently, you have to start paying attention.

Connect the dots. I guarantee you the people in the DNC right now are doing exactly that. That's a – those are signs to be sifted. Those are clues to be looked at. And to me, that's the big news i mean um look i'm i'm horrified of course that whatever happened to that flight malaysian flight um but it i still have to reserve um you know a few minutes of every day to do a private little uh you know dance of victory for um the florida congressional win. Jake Tapper actually had a very funny tweet,

Election Eve, and he said, I knew the Republicans were going to win when I read, and he redacted the names with some liberal pundit or some famous liberal name. When name redacted started saying, it wasn't a bellwether. It was a must win until they started losing and now it's, ah, we don't really need it. If I may, a quick roundup of the facts in the Florida case. It wasn't actually a heavily Republican district. Obama had carried it twice. The Democrats had the candidate of their dreams,

a woman who had just lost in the previous race for governor, meaning they had already spent millions of dollars getting name recognition for her across the state. She followed the Democratic playbook exactly in that she followed over and over again, fix, don't abolish the mantra on Obamacare. Obamacare is fundamentally good. We recognize that there are some problems with it, but we're going to fix it. My opponent intends to abolish it. And indeed, the opponent, the felicitously named Mr. Jolly, said repeal Obamacare. And that is roughly all that he ran on, repeal Obamacare. And he won by more than four points in a race that

everybody was expecting to come out the other way around by more than four points. I beg your pardon, I left out one element. She outspent him, as best I could tell reading, who knows the way the final FCC records will come out. But as it stands now, she outspent him by at least three to one. Ideal candidate, district Obamacare not once but twice, three times as much money. And the Republicans said repeal Obamacare and he won. It was huge. It is awesome. And it is a bellwether.

And I'll tell you, I will be surprised if at the end of the quarter when the contribution numbers come out, political contribution numbers come out and have to be filed, you don't start seeing lots of money being poured into Republican races, lots of money being poured into Republican senatorial races that may have been a little close. That – this kind of event is an enormously – enormously like a – it is a watershed moment, not just for money but for momentum. And the Republicans have found – they have Forrest Gumped their way, as they say, into finding a message, which is – and the message is Obamacare. And I think the reason that message is so powerful is because the other side simply can't believe it. They can't – that's the best kind of – that's the best way to defeat your enemy or your political enemy anyway is to defeat them in a way that they can't believe is going to – this can't work is what they're saying. And the echo chamber in the press is agreeing with them. This can't work. He didn't – this can't work is what they're saying. And the echo chamber in the press is agreeing with them.

This can't work. He can't win and he does. And they're still in the this can't work attitude, which is exactly where we want them for November. So that's good news. It's good news for us. It's good news for the simplicity of – for nationalizing what are in fact local campaigns and giving them one simple – one simple – Exactly.

Clear, specific position that actually reverberates into a larger philosophy, which is smaller government, less government, fewer – all the stuff that you need. I compare that to my favorite governor right now, Scott Walker of Wisconsin, who has a surplus in his state and is about to deliver a tax refund or a tax cut to his constituents. That's perfect. That's exactly what you want. One guy is charging you for something that doesn't work and the other guy is giving you money back because you run for the gun. Well, the tax cut that he actually wants to do is eliminate the taxes I believe for industry. It's even better. You guys want to come in here and start a business, preferably one that belches huge clouds of black smoke into the sky and provides jobs for people. Come on in.

And of course, they won't. It'll be generally clean industry, and Wisconsin will stay a habitable place, and it will grow in somebody, I don't know, maybe on the right, we'll be able to point to that and say, see what we can do when we get out of your way. See what we can accomplish. Well, all of this is part, as you know, of changing everything, which requires getting back all the levers of power. And while we hope that a tsunami is building in 14 and 16, there are some people we want to stay exactly where they are, for example, in the Senate.

And one of those would be Senator John Hoeven from North Dakota, senior senator. Prior to that, he was the state's governor from 2000 to 2010. And North Dakota is in the news and on everybody's lips these days as a state with the highest quality of living, most job opportunities, a beautiful place, rectangular, yes, but leading the way to the nation to show us where we're headed next. We welcome you to the podcast today. Hello, Senator. Good morning, gentlemen. What a great intro and good to be with you.

Always great. Peter, you – I'd like to go first if I may. Senator Hovind, Peter Robinson here. In his State of the Union address this past January, President Obama took credit for the energy boom now underway in the United States. And he said, we – and when he said we, it was clear he was referring to himself and his administration. He said we several times. We have increased energy production.

We have cut the prices of energy. We have made it possible for manufacturing to take place in this country again in a way that it hasn't taken place for a number of years. Now, could you tell us what President Obama did to deserve all that credit, Senator? Well, Peter, good to visit with you. Yeah, that's irony to say the least because, look, he's got an administration that believes in more government, more taxation, more regulation, more spending. No matter what challenge comes up, he always wants to grow government. He always wants to start a new government program. And that's not the solution.

That's the problem. I mean, you know, you worked with our great president, Ronald Reagan. He came to power on the basis of a very clear look. We have the greatest economy in the world because of our great people, our ingenuity, our entrepreneurs, our small business. And we have to make it easier to do business, not harder to do business. So really the growth in energy and other areas that we've seen are in spite of his approach and his policies, not because of it. Hi, Senator. It's Rob Long in L.A. How are you? Thank you for joining us. Good to be with you, Rob.

Did it bug you when you were sitting in there? I mean, because you were there when he said it. You were in the room. I mean, do you think, do you ever wonder, do you ever, look, I guess my question is, are you ever tempted to shout out, not true, like a Supreme Court justice? No, I wouldn't get up and shout out, but it's very frustrating, of course, because it's the wrong approach. Look, you talked about our state. Our whole focus in North Dakota was to make it the best possible place to do business. And, of course, what's resulted is people have, not only our own people, through their great entrepreneurship,

but others have come to our state. We're now the fastest-growing state in the country because it's a great place to do business. But the growth and the development and expansion and new technologies and the new businesses, that comes from the private sector. And so our whole role was to empower them to create that good environment that encourages that investment and makes things happen. That's what's not happening at the federal level. And so, of course, it's very frustrating when he talks about, again,

the kind of things like Obamacare that create uncertainty, that raise costs, that put taxes in place that prevent the very growth, economic growth we need to get people back to work. Speaking of Obamacare, there was a special election in Florida in which the presumed Democratic candidate was going to – the Democratic candidate was presumed to win and a slightly not so – not as vetted Republican candidate was expected to lose. And it happened the other way around and the Republican won and won pretty handily. Now, I don't know how it has to work in the Senate. Do you guys kind of like – do you watch the returns together? Is there one kind of room there where you have all the TVs on, you get yourself a beer, you sit there and you watch it? Or do you guys talk a little in the hallway or something?

Do you go, hey, how about that? I mean, did anything – did the mood, did the atmosphere, did your hope for a Republican Senate change that Tuesday night? Yes. Well, you know, I think so, and we have talked about it. And I think both Republicans and Democrats in the Senate and the House and really people across the country recognize that Florida, you know, again, is a clear indication and manifestation of the unhappiness that people have with Obamacare. And in a broader sense with the policies of this administration. And very definitely, we think that that's going to make a big difference in the next election and obviously enhances our chances to pick up the Senate.

Senator, I'd like to go back to American politics in a moment, but you just got back from Ukraine, which is a confusing... No, I'm leaving. Oh, you're about to go. I'm leaving today. Yep. leaving today. Yep. Leaving today. Leave it to me to read my briefing papers

a little bit too quickly there. So you're leaving today. You've always been ahead of your time, Peter. You've always been ahead of your time. Yeah. Thank goodness I had you to cheat on. But how was it? Yeah.

Yeah, so... Yeah. Peter, I'm thinking of saying something like, President Putin, remove these tanks. Kind of along the lines of some of the speeches you've written in a different era. As long as I get royalties. So what are you looking for? What are you hoping to accomplish? Here, can I just, this is the thing that comes up in the press again and again and again over here.

And I'd like to know what your thinking is before you leave. Actually, I'd love to hear what you're thinking when you get back as well. Maybe we can – you'll have 15 minutes to spare again in a week or two. But you hear over and over again one half of Ukraine, the western and northern half, is pretty much pro-west, heavily populated by ethnic Ukrainians. The other half is more pro-Russia. There are a lot of Russian speakers. And the Crimea, which the Russians have now occupied, is majority Russian speaking. And so the question is, oh, come on, really?

Let's be realistic. Why not just let the country break in two? The West gets the bit that's pro-western that wants to be with us and the rest gets to stay with the russia what the heck is wrong with that how do you handle that thinking of course you know and i know peter you know very well the answer to that question this is a very very serious situation uh where uh putin has invaded another sovereign country and it's really it is up to the people in the Ukraine, Crimea and all parts of Ukraine, to determine what their government should be.

We stand for freedom and liberty and self-determination in the world. And so this is not a situation where we're looking at military steps, but clearly we have got to determine what we do to sanction this kind of action, whether it's in the Ukraine or anywhere else, as we stand for freedom. And that means diplomatic measures. That means the right kind of economic measures. And we have to do that in a smart and sensible way. And so I'm going over there with a number of other senators so that we understand the

facts on the ground so we can make an intelligent, effective response to what is a very serious situation. And the other point I want to point out is when I was governor of North Dakota, because we have a very similar climate with the Ukraine, very similar soils, we actually had a number of trade missions to the Ukraine. We have businesses that have implement dealerships over there, farm equipment dealerships that do other kinds of business. And in fact, the North Dakota Trade Office even has an employee in Kiev. So we have a lot of ag ties and energy.

Energy is part of this solution. I'm on both the ag and the energy committees long term. And we've got to start thinking long term. We can't lurch from crisis to crisis. We have to have a long term plan. And our growth in energy and what we're doing in natural gas creates an opportunity to work with the EU and Ukraine that will enhance our business, help grow our economy and help provide them with security because they're so dependent on Russia for their energy right now. Senator James Laddick's here in Minnesota. Let's go back to that natural gas in North Dakota. Let's talk about what the EPA would like to do if it had its druthers to choke off as early as possible more of these carbon-based energy forms.

From what I understand, there are some regulations that are saying that if you have a prairie-spackled grouse or something of that nature, that there's a push to declare it endangered and to make sure that its habitats have a three- to five-mile perimeter, which essentially would make it impossible to drill anywhere, period. What do you see the future of North Dakota versus the EPA? How do you think that's going to play out? Yeah, I think you're talking about the sage grouse and but there's any number of rule yeah there's any number of rules and regulations that they continually provide uh that uh impede not only impede energy development but ironically impede the development and deployment of new technologies that not only produce energy

with more efficiency more dependably and lower cost, but also with environmental stewardship. So they're holding up the very kind of development that would actually not only improve the environmental stewardship in this country through the deployment of these new technologies, but around the globe as those technologies are adopted. And so you're giving a good example of how they're blocking hundreds of billions of dollars in investment across the country in the energy sector that, like I say, would not only help us to energy independence, help us in terms of our strength and influence around the world, as we're talking here about relative to the EU, but also that new technology deployment is what really drives the better environmental stewardship. Right. And as people point to North Dakota as an economic success story, they think that all of the expensive, well-paying jobs are the guys who get their hands dirty and drive the trucks and load the pipelines and the rest of it. But the money sloshes over all over the place so that somebody who just had a small little hotel in Dickinson

is now raking it in because they can't build the units fast enough. Here's my question about the oil prosperity of North Dakota. There's still places in North Dakota where it hasn't yet reached. When you go on Google Earth and look at some of the small towns, there's no way not to see that all of these tiny little villages in the capillaries of North Dakota are slowly dying. What can be done or should anything be done really to preserve that sort of small town farm life that has kept North Dakota culture what it's been for the last hundred years? Well, but the reality is across the state we're growing and developing because we're diversifying our economic base. So people hear about oil all the time, but we actually have developed all sorts of energy, both traditional and renewable. But we're also doing an incredible amount of things in advanced manufacturing,

technology-based businesses, in ag processing. For example, we're building a huge multibillion-dollar fertilizer plant in Jamestown, which is east-central North Dakota. We're going to have to draw all our workers from the Twin Cities area, where you are, because our unemployment is so low, we're going to use the natural gas that comes out of the oil patch, but we're going to supply fertilizer throughout the Middle West. That's just one example. But in all these areas, if you look, because we built that good business climate, you're seeing across the state, in the Red River Valley, Fargo and Grand Forks, we have housing shortages.

That's not about oil. That's about companies like Microsoft, which has 1,800 employees now in Fargo, or the fact that Grand Forks has been picked as one of six sites in the nation to develop UAS. So, I mean, it's developing that diversified economy, and it goes well beyond oil and gas. Sure. I'm sorry, Peter. I just have to say. No, no. Go ahead, James. Go ahead. My father's gas station was on the absolute edge of West Fargo, beyond here be dragons. It was so far away, and now the developments have come up, lapped up to it, swamped it, gone past.

It's extraordinary. The one thing I want to say, since you don't have – I'm sure real estate's in demand right now. I mean, West Fargo's going like crazy. Oh, it never stopped. The recession in 2008 never hit it. But here's the thing. If you really want to irritate Minnesotans,

propose building a light rail train between Minneapolis and Fargo to take workers there. They'll love the high speed or the light rail aspect of it, but the fact that you're actually hiring people and taking our workers away to the economic powerhouse of North Dakota. I'll tell you what, the truth be known, we love Minnesota. We love the lakes in western Minnesota. We love the Twin Cities. We have a ton of people that cross over the line every day to go to work in places like Fargo and Grand Forks. We farm together in the Red River Valley.

I mean, we have a great relationship with Minnesota. So there's a little rivalry. That's fun. But with Minnesota, South Dakota, our neighbors, Montana. You're absolutely right. And I love to hear that. Join us then, and together we will defeat Iowa. I've got to do a shout-out.

Guys, you've got to let me give a shout-out here because North Dakota State, just a big game, and they are in the March Madness. They're going to be in the big dance. And here's another example. We draw a lot of kids from Minnesota into NDSU. So that's another example of how we work together. James, you played basketball, didn't you? Yes, at the Napoleonic, John Keats-like height of 5'4".

I was the guy who tossed the towels. But you were quick. Yes, I was very quick. Darted like a minnow between the towering sequoias. Hey, Senator, Peter here, a couple last questions. I don't think I've ever asked you this before, Senator, but it's just on my mind. So you were elected governor of your state three times before going to the Senate. You're in your third year in the Senate.

So that's about 15 years in elective office in and from North Dakota. And at the beginning of that 15 years, I can remember thinking as I read one or another article about how the upper Midwest was becoming depopulated. And there were theories that since people were moving out of the Dakotas, maybe we should make them a new vast national rangeland and bring back herds of tens of thousands of buffalo. And just this whole question of what to do with the emptying out of the Dakotas. That's when you were, of course, you read those stories yourself. And here you are, senator, 15 years later, senator from a state who would have thought that north dakota would ever become really cool and yet it is how does that feel well peter um first of all it's really nice you to point it

out actually when i started as governor and at the end of 2000 beginning 2001 we were one of three states in the country losing population and you you're right. The talk was that we should, you know, become a Buffalo Commons is what they called it. Right. That's exactly right. A couple folks from New Jersey, yeah, the Poplars from New Jersey even wrote a treatise on how, you know, it's emptying out and pretty soon there'll be no one there and it ought to just be a Buffalo Commons. But the reality is we've got a great state with great people.

We built a good business climate. And wow, have they done a fantastic job. And like we're talking about, not just in energy, although we get a lot of attention for it, but really across the board. Our per capita average income now is about 25% above the national average. And we're growing in a lot of areas, like I say, high-tech, advanced manufacturing, ag processing,

a lot of other areas besides energy. And we're still just a great agricultural state, too. So thanks. Thanks for that kind of shout out there. I really appreciate it. So last question before you get on the plane for Ukraine. How is the Senate looking for November? You guys talk to each other. We just mentioned that you think can we get to 50 seats?

Well, I think so. Yeah, I think so. I mean, you know, obviously there's still a long time until November, but right now, you know, the trends are good. We have good candidates, and, you know, we're optimistic at this point that we can and maybe do even better than 50. Really? Well, we're hoping for 51-plus, and I think we have that opportunity.

For sure, got to make it happen, but I think we do have that opportunity. Now, Senator, I can't recall. Were you in the Senate during a Republican majority year? No, no. So are you walking through the hallways looking for the bigger and better offices that are going to be yours? No, no, no,

no, absolutely not. No, just trying to just try to get some work done. And it still all comes, it still all comes back to doing a good job for the American people. We got, you know,

we got to get the right kind of healthcare. We got to get this deficit and debt under control. We got to get this economy growing, get people back to work. We got to reduce the regulatory burden. We need pro-growth tax reform. We've got to stand strong with our military. So we've got to get things going for the American people the right way.

Well, work to do with North Dakota can be an example. Good luck. Have a good trip. And when you come back to the States, give my regards to Hector Field when you go back to North Dakota. I'll absolutely do it. Thanks, guys. Thank you back to the States, give my regards to Hector Field when you go back to North Dakota. I'll absolutely do it. Thanks, guys. Thank you, Senator. Thanks, Senator.

When I was a kid – yes, Ron? No, I was going to say I guess he's probably not doing that. But I guarantee you there are people on his staff, people on Republican staffs in the Senate right now walking through hallways saying, maybe my guy is going to be head of the finance committee. He has that big office. I guarantee you, this is what people do in all organizations when they feel like it's good. I remember the last month and a half of my production deal at Paramount, and everybody knew we were leaving.

We were leaving. We were going somewhere else, and there were people knocking on our door and saying, hey, can we just come and take a look at your offices? Just kind of just take a peek at it while we were still working. Rob, that is the sort of corrosive cynicism that comes from people who watch House of Cards and believe it's a documentary. I'm just appalled. Exactly. Could I just state this for the fun of it? One thing, John Hovind and I have known each other since we were in high school,

actually. So we're old friends, but I just love listening to a man talk who knows his work. John knows North Dakota. He knows every business in North Dakota. He knows half of the people in his state personally. And it is just such a pleasure to listen to a man who is an elected representative who loves his job and loves his state and has a clear idea how it's done, what it's done and what needs to be done to make it. It's just such a pleasure to listen to a public official who's saying the right things and knows what he's doing.

Don't you feel? Yeah. saying the right things, and knows what he's doing. Don't you feel? Yeah, well, when I mentioned Hector Field, I could have said give my regards to the happy hooligans at Hector Field. You know what I meant. The happy hooligans were an Air National Guard detachment that had screaming jets that went over our elementary school with sonic booms and scared the butt out of everybody. But Hector Field, when I said that, I remembered when I was a kid,

I was reading a book by Arthur Haley called Flight Zero something or other. This almost goes back to the Malaysian thing we were talking about before. And it's about an airplane where both the pilot and the co-pilot get food poisoning and can't fly the plane. And I remember as I'm reading this book in 10, 12, 13, whatever, they mention Hector Field. And it's like going to a rock show and the singer gets out and says, hello, Des Moines. And everybody thinks he's mentioned our city. It was like that. And then later, of course, Arthur Haley goes and writes a book about airports called Airport, which they made a big movie out, of course, which was set here in the Twin Cities.

And to this day, when I walk into our terminal, Lindbergh Terminal, I think, I'm walking where pilot Dean Martin walked. And then Airplane is made as a parody of Airport. But Airplane is based actually on the movie version of the early Arthur Haley movie book where the guys get sick. If you've ever seen Zero Flight 80 or something like that, Zero Hour, that's the name of the movie. Airplane, that hilarious film, is an exact parody of that film. And if you want a Fargo connection, well,

Peter Graves, who of course starred in that movie, born and raised here in Minneapolis in my neighborhood, where I, a Fargo guy, live. And when I walk into the video store, I know that this used to be the movie theater where Peter Graves would go. So the question is... So that would happen. It's just astonishing. The question then is Arthur Haley, are any of his books available in audible.com format?

And the answer is only one, and it appears to be something that has to do with hospitals. Now, this was not the basis for that George C. Scott movie, but Strong Medicine by Arthur Haley is the only search return that comes up for this guy who wrote all of these books, which were incredibly popular. And I've never heard of it. So I'm going to give it a listen, and so should you. If you go to audiblepodcast.com slash ricochet, you, you the ricochet leader, get a free 30-day trial membership. This is not a tiered thing. This is not a 2.0.

It's just for you, absolutely free. You can have it. So go. Choose anything you like. And maybe if there's enough people who get this Arthur Haley book, there will be a clamoring to bring back the works of this forgotten American novelist. Peter, Ramba, anything you've been reading lately you'd like to point people to Audible to check out? Yep. The Oregon Trail by Francis Parkman, written in 1846 when Parkman, who would later go on to write the classic study of the French settlement of Canada. Francis Parkman, young Harvard man.

It's sort of in the two years before the mass genre of young Harvard men in the middle of the 19th century didn't know quite what to do with themselves. And he goes and describes what it was like to travel west with emigrants in the Oregon Trail. Interestingly enough, here's a chain of association for you. He writes this in 1846 describing their jumping off point, which was Independence, Missouri. In Independence, Missouri, in 1846, there was a man selling Conestoga wagons to those about to travel west. He had a daughter six years later. That daughter had a son who grew up to be President of the United States, Harry Truman. Harry Truman made the decision to drop the first atomic bomb. He was the grandfather, his grandson of a man who sold Conestoga wagons to settlers heading west. And Harry Truman's flag officer, who took the order from him and cabled it back to Washington, is still alive in Irvine, California, George Elsey.

We are one, two, three, four points of four degrees of separation from settlers going west across the oregon trail it's a wonderful book and it didn't happen all that long ago it's a young country and now you know the rest i i know i love little connections like that absolutely rob uh do you have something that you know completely different um genre for autumn for for from from peter's The Monster of Florence. It's a really interesting very... Oh, yes. That's the woman. Tell us about that. Well, it's really it's a

It's a crime. It's a true crime account of an author named Douglas Preston who writes thrillers anyway. And he goes to Italy with his family to rent a villa to finish his book and he discovers that there's been a really gruesome double murder

in his in the villa basically where he's renting and he starts to investigate it of course and this is true and then uncovers a bigger sort of set of crimes and it's all true, it's great, it's written beautifully and

it's gripping, it's all true. It's great. It's written beautifully and it's gripping. It's gripping. And it's real. So I think it's great. Well, it's also about the strange peculiarities of the Italian justice system, which this may come as a surprise to people, are not actually devoted to the relentless pursuit of truth, are they, Rob? Pursuit of truth, yeah.

No, they're not. I mean I don't want to give too much of it away, but it's not a, it's not, it doesn't end up being critical, that critical of the justice, of the specific justice of Italy, but it's a very good investigative thing if you're into that, and I am, so I recommend it.

Extraordinary. Well, I'm not exactly, it's one of those things that i've wanted to read because the amanda knox case keeps rolling on now there's now there's this dispute as to whether or not uh they can have her back to try her for the 17th time you know at some point you look at at countries like italy which have a difficult time holding a government together let alone a judiciary and you wonder exactly what's the distinction between them and some of the other countries that we just regard as flat-out incompetent and flat-out bad.

And then you look around and you see the weakness in Ukraine. You see the total, complete, and utter chaos of Africa with the churns and the coups and the president for life and the rest of it. And you wonder exactly how many stable governments there are that we can actually count as peers. Well, you got to deal with these somehow. And some, I was going to have this conversation.

I was going to actually jump in here until I realized that. And you, and what you have right now, it's a segue in progress. That was a segue. And I was going to jump in. I was like, that's it.

It was so perfect, James. And I was like, I was ready to respond to it. I had, I had thoughts and everything I wanted to share, but now I know it's a segue, so I won't interrupt. I won't interrupt.

Can we get Troy back? Yeah. Anyway, so you have to engage with governments, good and bad. You can't just return to your own borders and let the chaos build until it elapses at your own shores. But there's a trouble, isn't there, with dealing with some of these things and dancing with the devil, you might call it. And that's the title of the encounter book that we have for you this week, Dancing with the Devil, the Perils of Engaging Rogue Regimes by Michael Rubin. Now, as I'm

looking at the copy that I'm supposed to read here, it's for last week's book. So let's just presume a couple of things. One, we've had no choice. There's the old Gene Kirkpatrick formulation, right? There are authoritarian regimes and totalitarian regimes. One of them can evolve into a democracy. The other is a brittle thing that just shatters on contact. You have difficult strategies for both. But, you know, when you're dealing with bad guys, do you get your hands dirty? Is there a moral stain that accumulates to you? Are there lines that you can't cross? Are there things you absolutely have to sniff and hold your nose and deal with because you have to get the dirty work of statecraft done? These are the

questions, I'm presuming, are answered in Dancing with the Devil, The Perils of Engaging Rogue Regimes by Michael Rubin. Now, if you would like this, of course you do. It goes without saying, it's an encounter book. It's got to be great. For 15% off this, you can go to EncounterBooks.com and use the coupon code. Any questions? Any thoughts on that? Ricochet, right. Very good at the checkout. And we thank, as ever, our friends at Encounter Books for sponsoring the Ricochet podcast.

And I doubt that this will be changed next week, so we will have a full and complete precis of the book. But right now, get up to speed. Get ahead of your friends before they hear what it's all about and go get dancing with the devil, the perils of engaging rogue regimes. Gentlemen, there's no segue. Well done.

Well done. Well, you know, the thing of it is, if anybody was listening along in the live feed, we know that I actually was crafting a sort of aircraft movie-related Segway before. That one actually started to form in my head as I was talking about the Liam Neeson thing. It did.

But in the interest of time and brevity, I changed it up into the one that I used. You could say that it was Segway 2.0, which brings me actually to the question of Ricochet's next iteration, and I want you guys to... That was just... Sorry, but I'm in awe. I am just in awe. So when you flip the switch, when does it come? A Segway,

a discussion of a Segway turns into a Segway. This is Inception. I'm inside my own thing. Inception-level Segway segue so what is 2.0 gonna well i'm glad that you asked james because i do have some information um it's wrong to call this ricochet 2.0 actually as was pointed out by someone it's really a a better version of what we have now with some more features ricochet 2.0 willchet 2.0 will be adding to and probably won't get to until probably in the autumn. What's going to

happen is it's going to be a better site. It's going to be more stable. It's going to look a little different. It's going to be a lot easier to participate with. Our members are really going to appreciate that. We're going to start doing it. These things are – all right. I'm saying it right now. These are our plans. It's what we're trying to do and I'm knocking wood right there because I'm superstitious.

We're going to start doing this at 5 p.m. Pacific time on Sunday. So it's this Sunday and the site is going to come down for about three hours, four hours, and then we're going to go live. Everything that's on the old site is going to be on the new site. If you are a member and you have a bunch of drafts going, a lot of our members have little draft posts ready to go, save it just to have it anyway. I'm not sure what's going to happen with the drafts in the draft boxes yet. And then the other piece of sort of slightly irritating news, but it absolutely cannot be avoided, is that everyone's going to have to go through a password reset. You're going to have to reset your password to log back in the site. Sorry about that. But that's part of what,

you know, the current passwords are encrypted. So we can't actually do anything with the current passwords, which just shows you how secure Ricochet.com is. It's so secure, only you, the member, can change your password. It's going to look a little different. It's a different platform. There are going to be some bugs that show up, and we are going to address them as they come up. Please bear with us. We are going to have a bunch of people

helping out, and we're hoping to get a bunch of members who will be willing to help out on an ad hoc basis. The best news about it is that we are going to WordPress, which is a much more able and more, as they say, extensible platform. There are more people who are conversant in that, which means that the site is going to get better and better and better and better and better all the time, and there will be more and more new features,

and there are some really cool things that are coming up. We also have changed the prices a little bit. So what used to be pegged in the old days to the grande latte, coming up. We also have changed the prices a little bit. What used to be pegged in the old days to the Grande Latte, the price of a Grande Latte at the flagship Starbucks in Seattle, and if you're Ricochet old school, you remember me, Peter, saying that every twice a podcast, over and over again.

Well, here's the thing. Peter and I just discovered, we love the idea of it, but it turns out that the Grande Latte at the flagship Starbucks in Seattle goes up 11 cents a year, which wasn't really enough to grow a business or pay any of our few employees anything resembling a decent wage. So we're going to go – we're going to raise the price to an even five bucks, five bucks a month, but it's only $39.95 yearly, so you get a break. And there are two extra levels, the gold level and the platinum level, and the pricing of that. I'll wait. We're still sort of fighting over that. And all those tiers have special goodies you get, including at the gold level, platinum level, but especially platinum level, a few more sort of VIP reception type things like we had in LA, but probably a little more elaborate.

I'm looking at the price at the platinum level here. This must include a week's stay at Rob Long's house. Well, James, this is not really good marketing. What are you talking about? I've been to your house. It's a great idea. Yeah, well, we can't be doing that. And the point is that we are growing and that we are investing more into the community and investing more into the site and investing more into all of us.

And we're really excited to do that. It sounds as though we're becoming like American Express, platinum card, gold card. And American Express is simply trying to figure out ways of extracting money from people. We are simply trying to figure out ways of covering the costs of Ricochet so that it can become self-sustaining and go on and give people a good time and a voice and a place to participate in the conservative conversation without a new crisis every nine months. Nobody on this podcast, I promise you, is getting rich or even doing well out of Ricochet. We're just trying to close the gap between what is literally true. Most recently, Scott Roycer, one of our most eloquent members, sent an email to us, private email, not on Ricochet, saying, guys, you know, there are some

of us for whom a few dollars more a month really wouldn't matter. We really do love Ricochet. We want to help you here. So it is literally true that this two-tiered pricing notion came from the Ricochetti themselves. Back to you, Rob. And as always the case, and by the way, this is not something we didn't plan on, but we did of Ricochet take a certain amount of ownership of the place, and that is part of what we were trying to do is to sort of create a place where people – and a place to – there will be a lot more private messaging, a lot more of that stuff. Have a place to do all of that in an environment that is civil and polite and high, basically.

So that's what we're trying to do. We're smart. We're all smart people. Let's be smart together. And because there's ownership and a sense of possession and community, there will be pushback when this thing rolls out. Yeah, yeah. Every single redesign I've ever been through. A lot of it is from you, James.

I know. I'm going to get a text from James. This is horrible. Yeah, it's change. And we're conservatives. We hate change in general. I'm going to get a text from James. This is horrible. A lot of – yeah, it's change. And we're conservatives. We hate change in general. But I'm excited about it and I think it's going to be great. And we're going to be able to add more features every month.

People are going to come up with stuff. I'm sure some of our members are WordPress experts. They'll be trying to add stuff to you and that's good. That's what we want. We've got a lot of things happening in Ricochet, sort of the umbrella of Ricochet coming up. We've got some better distribution, bigger distribution for our podcast coming up. We've got a bunch of other

sort of little thoughts and plans and stuff happening. This is just the beginning and we're excited to do it. I'll say it one more time. If you are not a member and you are listening to this, we love that you're listening to it. We are thrilled to have you as a listener, but we'd be even more thrilled to have you as a member, to have you commenting, to have you posting, to have you just participating in as little – in as small a way as you can in the community, it matters to a lot of people. It matters to a lot of people in the business, but it also matters to a lot of people in Washington.

And that alone should be a reason for you to join now. But also, if you're smart, join now so that you don't have to pay the new fee. And remember, passwords have to be reset. So enter them in, and we will be watching to see what everybody's password is and to see whether or not they type in password or the name of their dog. One last thing. We had a ricochet meetup here in Minnesota, Minneapolis on Saturday. Wow. That's right.

It was put together by Hinder Racker and Brian Ward. They announced the venue, and I went a little late because I was coming from striking the set of my daughter's play, and walked into a packed room, packed with a ricochetti. And it was wonderful, and I was sitting there talking to some folk.

And hello to everybody who came. It was great to meet you all. And I'm thinking, here in this tiny little, in the corner of this loud Irish bar in Minneapolis, Minnesota, on a cold March raw day. This is what Peter and Rob begat.

Did they ever think, sitting there in California when they started this thing, that a couple of years, two, three years down the line, there would be people devoted to this project that had assembled in the center of the country, for heaven's sakes, on a Saturday night, left their homes, driven somewhere, put down good money for fish and chips and beer to be amongst other people in this community that they've created. So you guys have done a wonderful thing, and 2.0 is going to usher us into the next level of the Ricochet experience. Thank you, James.

Thank you, James. I should have had you say it. You said it better. The answer to your rhetorical question is no, we didn't. Like a lot of people who do what Peter and I do, we were focused on content, on, okay, who are we going to get to write? Who's going to be on the main page? Who are our initial contributors going to be? And we just focused entirely on that.

And I think in a way, everyone in our side of the business does that and they do that too much. And it was about two weeks in. I don't think – not more than two weeks in that we thought, wait a minute. There's so much more stuff and good stuff on the member feed. We need to put some resources and attention into the community building. Of course, we had some money troubles. All those things we already know. We don't have to rehash that.

But we finally feel like we have the resources to put into the community building, and that is the most exciting thing ever. And what I'm surprised by is that no one else is doing it. You look around various other sites. There's a couple sites that I'm very fond of. James, you and I occasionally write for NRO or we contribute to NRO. I know, Peter, you were on the corner for years. I love that site.

I love NR, James, you and I. We write for every issue. I still think those guys all on our side need to remember that the best conversation in America right now are two-way conversations. And we have to put some effort and some resources into that. Well, I'm doing actually a regular thing for NRO online now. I'm going to have a column every other Wednesday or Thursday. So I'll have one week, it'll be in the print edition, and then the next week I'll have something, which is fun because I

can go twice as long and ramble about things that really... When you write for a magazine, there's a mantle that descends around your shoulders. I shall be important. This shall last a fortnight. Oh, really? Well, I know. But online, you can go a little longer and a little quirkier and I'm enjoying that as well. And then, of course, there's Ricochet. And then, of course, if it all just doesn't work, you can start ordering people around and telling them what to do and being as bossy as we know you want to be, little Rob Long. You're just a bossy little guy. We had this dispute elsewhere. We were talking about about on the site i was irritated by the whole

band bossy thing because it comes in from the woman who came up with the the lean in slogan and after all these years i do not know what that means i don't know what lean in means i don't know how it distinguishes itself from trotting sideways or squatting upwards or the right lean in is one of the most least descriptive terms i've ever heard. But apparently, it means that you should do more and get it all and the rest of it. Well, when you have a successful book like she had, you need to come up with another and you need to come up with another concept. And apparently, Ban Bossy, which has been the hot hashtag all over the internet for the last four days, somebody finally came up with something that I thought was a great response to the whole Ban Bossy move. And that was it recast the Affordable Care Act as Obossi Care, which I just loved.

Because if the idea of being assertive and telling what people to do is a wrong thing and socially unacceptable now, well, Obossi Care is the thing that pretty much sums up that idea perfectly. Are you guys worried about the effect of bossiness on the young women of America? The effect of bossiness? My thinking about this – The answer is no, but go on. My thinking about this doesn't even rise to the level of thinking. The idea that Sheryl Sandberg, who's worth X billion dollars, I'm acutely aware of this because you can't drive around here

without seeing her huge new palace in Menlo Park rising in the distance. The idea that Sheryl Sandberg needs to be told to tell women, 60% of bachelor's degrees in this country are now awarded to women. Under the age of, I think it's 25, the difference in wages between men and women is zero. Under the age of, again, I can't quite remember the number, but among young people, women are employed at a higher rate than men. The idea that women are systematically oppressed by this culture is nonsense and demonstrably nonsense

and Sheryl Sandberg's book and the whole idea of banning bossy is just sheer preciousness I can't stand it that's a good way to put it preciousness it's also wrong.

I mean, first of all, she's the boss. Exactly. Did you lose her? You're getting crackly, but you're still with us. Rob said that she was the boss, and that's true. I mean, I had a bossy boss once upon a time. She was bossy. She was a time. She was bossy. She was forceful.

She was profane. She was funny, compassionate, vicious, withering. And this was in the course of a two-minute walk down the hall. And I loved her. And the reason that everybody else loved her and didn't call her – She wouldn't call you by their first name. Oh, well, she could call you by your first name. And if your first name had one syllable, she could put the F word in between.

I mean she was something else. And we respected her and loved her because she had earned absolutely every single atom of the authority that she had. Bossiness is something they call little girls. No one calls a little girl bossy because they're being competent and arranging things and helping people and being little leaders. They're being a little pill when they're being bossy because they're being competent and arranging things and helping people and being little leaders. They're being a little pill when they're being bossy. They're putting their hands on their hips and they're telling everybody what the rules are and no, that doll can't play with that doll and that doll has to be over here. That's bossy. That's an- Sounds like you have direct knowledge of this, James. Well, having had a 13-year-old girl, there's been some experience with the younger iterations and

the friends who have been bossy. Yes, bossy indeed. So it's one of those little things where you just – here we are having a cultural conversation about bossiness and over in Ukraine, Putin is having – is being the boss. I mean the difference between a strong culture and one that just seems sort of marinating and sloshing around in these meaningless little issues. I mean this would be great if we had world peace and the federation and matter replicators and the rest of it. Then you would feel free to argue about little details like this, but given the perils that we face, it just seems – you look and

you see a whole side of the culture that obviously doesn't care about any of the things that you care about. This is important. GMOs are important. Yeah. Also, I just – what I hate about it is that it implies that somehow we should figure out a way to make it illegal for you to insult me. Yeah, to call somebody – yeah, it's a little mildly insulting to call somebody bossy, out a way to make it illegal for you to insult me.

Yeah, to call somebody – yeah, it's a little mildly insulting to call somebody bossy, a grown-up bossy. It's mildly insulting. But I feel like if you have a billion dollars and you run one of the – you are the – you were the – considered when you got the job the administrative CEO savior of a gigantic now worldwide brand. I think you should be able to handle it. And the argument is always, well, when a man is that way, they call him decisive. No, no.

When a man is that way, they often call him a psychopath. That's what they called Steve Jobs. They called him a psychopath. They always said, oh, he's crazy. He's demanding. He's abusive. He's abusive. He's crazy. They said that about Jack Welch.

He is a monster, they would say. You will get screamed. He's crazy. He's nasty. He's vindictive. He's competitive. He's paranoid. They do that all the time.

So it's – the worst thing about this is that it's this idea that somehow comes from whatever you say. You can't insult rich, powerful people because they have feelings. Well, you know what? That's a little too bossy for me. Well, it's also the idea in this culture now that any statement of disagreement that isn't instantaneously leavened with an apology or a softening of feelings is somehow bullying. That the act of disagreeing itself constitutes bullying. The assertion of authority constitutes – I got the Communications Workers of America union letter the other day because I belong and they were talking about the pressures that

are being put on people in the advertising sections of newspapers and they called it workplace bullying. What? That ads because ads were commanding people to buy this or that kind of toothpaste? No, no, no. I don't even follow that. Go ahead. No, in the advertising sales department of newspapers.

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Where you may be stunned to find this, but there are managers who want people to go out there and sell as many ads as possible. And frankly, regard that as more important than the news gathering and truth telling operations of newspapers, almost as if they were a separate economic unit, and that this pressure constitutes bullying, which means that the term is now being used for any sort of aggressive disagreement that that that that contrueds with your life in any way that you don't approve of.

So, yes, well, the thing of it is, is, is that all of these little ideas, the bullying and the bossiness all attended to a very small little crust of elites on both sides of the coast. And most of the people in the middle here in the great flyover land regard these things with amusement and shrug and get back to getting their hands dirty and going to work. It doesn't matter. It's just chatter for what you hear from our media bettors, right? Or do you think that actually half the country out here in flyover land

is actually deeply concerned about these things? Or is just austin and spokane and minneapolis i i've had a conversation just the other night with a friend here who's building a high-tech company they're up to 50 employees they'll be at 140 the plan is by the end of this year and i was asking him how he hires i've never hired more than a secretary so this is interesting to me how do you screen people and he said well there are a number of different questions we ask. We study their resumes very closely, but then I take them through a case study. And the case is that at lunch, you and a friend come up with a huge idea. I mean, it's going to be a multi-billion dollar idea. And the next day, the two of you present to our executive team

and your friend starts talking. And by the end of the presentation, you realize that you have not said a word. Our CEO stands up and says, this is huge. He thanks your friend. He looks at you. He's a little bit querulous. He wonders why you were in the meeting and it's over. What do you do? And my friend, the hiring who takes these people through this case says, some people respond, well, I'll take my friend aside and I will say to him, you know, that wasn't really fair. Let's see if we can work this out. And I, the hirer, am not interested in those people. Others will say, I will go to my friend and say, what you just did was outrageous, and I will not permit that to stand. I'm not quite sure how I'll work this out.

I'm not quite sure who I'll speak to, but I will get the credit I deserve. And my friend who's hiring says, those are the guys I want on my sales team. Aggressiveness, right? Yeah. Those are the guys I want selling my product. I will crush you. I understand that. The question is why he's starting a business there in the first place.

If he gets successful and he has 100 people and he decides to get a bus to get them from where they're going to their homes, then he's going to be the enemy of the people as we find out with the Google buses, there's this class divide in San Francisco that I keep reading about where they're angry and resentful now of the people who are coming in and starting businesses and hiring people because it's changing the character and there's a two-tiered society with their private buses. We must throw bricks through them. I believe in the radio the other day talked that the technology exports of Texas exceed those of California, that companies with any sense whatsoever look there and say that's where we're going. Why is he starting a business in California? Why is he starting a business in California? The serious answer is because that's where the engineers are for now, at least. This business is within, I don't know, half a mile of Stanford Engineering School. And that's where the kids, the reason there are Google buses from San Francisco down to San Francisco is just hot. It's where talented kids seem to want to live. Not, however, that Austin isn't gaining fast.

But apparently, if you want hot young engineers, if your business in its initial phases at least relies heavily on bright engineers, this is still the place to be. Well, it's interesting. It still is California for tech. And for investment, there's a huge, you know, a trillion

dollars under management there. And so if you want, you know, you're trying to raise some money for your business, that's the place to do it for now. When you mentioned engineers though, there was a piece in the New York Times that said that there's a gap between the engineers that they need and the engineers that they're getting. The kids who come out of college now are focused on the next world-changing app they'll be able to sell for $15 billion. What they need are the people who actually develop the next iteration of semiconductors, the next storage system solutions, the real unglamorous stuff. I mean nobody ever got put on Rolling Stone or Verge or Vice Online because they invented a new trick that helps your upload speed, your cloud servers double. Well, no, but that's not necessarily true.

That's what we focus on are consumer-facing products. But the truth is that there's lots of money and effort and attention and some very big, as they say, exits, like a company getting acquired, in sort of hardware, in stuff that makes things go faster. There's a company that just Cisco bought a little while ago that makes wireless stuff happen better and faster. Look, these things go in phases. So right now everyone is trying –

busy trying to come up with products that people can use on their phone. But next five, ten years or three, four years maybe, it will go back to something else. So I mean that's the great thing about the economy of – the technology economy is it's run by and sort of governed by raw capitalism and incredibly entrepreneurial young people who don't play by the rules, which is good. And they are little closet republicans. We just have to figure out how to get them to vote for us. Well, speaking of raw capitalism and forward-facing consumer-driven applications, that brings us to Ricochet 2.0, soon to be debuted on this, your very own internet. Out it rolls, and it's going to be worth every penny you decide to pay for it.

It's going to be a lot of fun. It's going to be a rocky start at first, and we're saying that. Unlike the administration, I assume you guys have been brought up to speed all the time constantly on the performance of this thing so it's it's it's it's not going to be a surprise to you yeah yeah well yeah peter and i have been busy with our sleeves rolled up making this thing look if peter and i touch a piece of technology it's guaranteed to explode so uh we're uh we're we to explode. So we're big picture guys. We'll let the experts handle it. So in other words, if somebody calls you up, Rob, and says, we've lost the kismet key for the anti-spam sieve,

you're not going to be able to say, oh. Yeah, I'll give them someone else's phone number. Well, it'll be like we say. No matter how Ricochet changes, a couple of things won't. One, you, the consumer, who enjoys and adds to it in ways that we just possibly couldn't. And two, the podcast, which of course

will be back next week with another stellar roundup of this, that, and the other thing, and our own blatherings at the end and a couple of ads in the middle to keep it all going. Speaking of which, don't forget to go to audiblepodcast.com slash Ricochet and claim your free 30-day trial. I've recently got into listening to audiobooks a lot more than I used to while I do things, and let me tell you, it's a godsend to just keep your mind occupied and keep you from

listening to the drivel that sometimes pours out of your terrestrial radio. And secondly, of course, we thank Encounter Books, Dancing with the Devil, The Perils of Engaging Rogue Regimes. The title enough to make you want to go read it and find out exactly how we navigate this difficult and dangerous and devilish world. Michael Rubin is the author, and if you use the coupon code RECOCHET at the checkout, you'll get 15%

off the list price. Thanks to Senator John Hoeven. Never thought I'd have the opportunity to ask a senator to join me in crushing Iowa before, but there it was. And I'm glad it happened. Happy to do so. Absolutely. And thanks as ever to you, the listeners. Rob, Peter, we'll see

you at Ricochet.com in the comments. See you soon, fellas. Next week. Sunshine, she's here, you can take a break I'm a hot air balloon that could go to space With the air like I don't care, baby, by the way Because I'm happy Club along if you feel like a room without a roof Because I'm happy Club along if you feel like happiness is the truth Clap along if you know what happiness is to you

Clap along if you feel like that's what you want to do Here come bad news talking this and that. Give me all you got and don't hold it back. I should probably warn you I'll be just fine. No offense to you, don't waste your time. Here's why Because I'm the happiest Clap along if you feel like a room without a roof

Because I'm the happiest Clap along if you feel like happiness is the truth Because I'm the happiest Clap along if you know what happiness is to you Because I'm the happiest Clap along if you feel like that's what happiness is to you Cause I'm happy Clap along if you feel like that's what you wanna do Hey, go! Bring me down

Ricochet Join the conversation Bring me down Bring me down Bring me down, I said Bring me down, can't none Bring me down, your love is too Bring me down, can't none Bring me down, I said

Clap along if you feel like a room without a roof Clap along if you feel like happiness is the truth. Because I'm happy. Clap along if you know what happiness is to you. Because I'm happy. Clap along if you feel like happiness is the truth. you