The Ricochet Podcast - Live from CPAC #10: Kellyanne Conway

Episode Date: February 28, 2015

Jay Nordlinger interviews Kellyanne Conway, the Founder and President of the polling company, inc./WomanTrend a privately-held, woman-owned corporation founded in 1995. Source

Well, it's Jay Nordlinger for National Review, sitting here at CPAC with Kellyanne Conway, who for 20 years has been president of the polling company. And hi, Kellyanne. Hi, Jay. It's great to be with you. So you're a conservative. Indeed. And how did you get to be that way? Were you born that way?

Were you born with a right-wing spoon in your mouth, as Bill Buffy might say? Absolutely not. I think I was raised to be a conservative without anyone in the household ever using the word or really having a single political conversation during my entire childhood. I was raised in very unconventional households. My mother, her mother, and two of my mother's unmarried sisters raised me. These four Italian Catholic women in South Jersey, they were basically like the Golden Girls with the house coats and the snaps and everything. So our pictures on our little kitchen wall were

not of Ronald Reagan or John F. Kennedy. They were of the Pope and the Last Supper. But I believe I was raised to be a conservative in an apolitical household, Jay, because I was raised on self-reliance, faith, family, always give more than you take, always listen more than you talk. It was a family of small business owners, emphasis on small, who expressed their civic duty by voting regularly, but really never had politics as part of the conversation or the consideration. It's a wonderful way to grow up, but I feel that those back-to-basic values that are enshrined in our Constitution, I found out years later in college and then law school, those were

instilled in me at a very young age, and it's just the gift that keeps on giving. Did you ever have a liberal or left-wing flirtation or period or season? Yes, I did. When Geraldine Ferrara was running as the vice presidential nominee on the Democratic ticket in 1984, I was a senior in high school. Yes. And I was tasked with covering the presidential conventions for the local newspaper and for my high school at the same time. And I was absolutely intrigued as a little bit of a political, wannabe political

novice. I was intrigued that there would be a female vice presidential nominee, let alone an Italian one from New York. And I thought, wow, this is terrific. I was raised by women and they're half Italian, half Irish. All the men in my family work in private unions. Nobody went to college. They're, you know, they're just blue-collar workers. Are you in New Jersey? South Jersey, yes, outside of Philadelphia. Thank you. And so my father left my mother when I was two because he got another woman pregnant.

I mean, by all accounts, I should be a feminist. And so I was intrigued by her candidacy, and yet I was absolutely inspired and moved to activism forevermore by Ronald Reagan. When he spoke, it was his re-election convention, when he spoke, here was somebody of a different gender from a different coast, literally at the time four times my age, and he was 68, I was 17, and I was completely moved by him. And I thought, this is, forget the gender thing.

And so that was, to the extent that was a flirtation. And I remember my mother, when she got divorced at the age of 26, she immediately received one of the first copies and a full subscription from her friend to Ms. Magazine. It's a true story. And I was reading. I was in kindergarten, and I would open it up. And I felt it was, looking back, shocking to the conscience. It seemed to be very, there was nothing inspirational about it. It was very anti-male.

And even though I didn't have a father in the household, I had uncles and cousins and priests in our family who were role models. And I always thought anti-male was probably the worst part of feminism, really. Kellyanne, for a lot of people in America now, I think, Chris Christie is, if not the, an embodiment of New Jersey. Do you think of him as really Jersey, or is that just his self-image or shtick? Does he speak Greek of Jersey to you? He's Jersey fresh, but he's North Jersey, let me just say.

We raise our children in North Jersey, right outside of Manhattan now. But I grew up in South Jersey, and we like to say it's capital S, capital J. It's the part of the state that gives it the nickname the Garden State. I worked on a blueberry farm for eight summers. My aunt and uncle own a roadside stand in front of the house in which I was raised. People in South Jersey tend to be more property rich and small house. You know, it's the opposite now, I think, in many places. I think Chris Christie is the embodiment of New Jersey. In fact, Jay, since he became the governor of New Jersey some five years ago, six years ago,

nobody has ever asked me since, what exit are you from? They ask me about Chris Christie. It's actually been that replacement question. And when people say what exit, they say it mockingly and sneeringly, right? They don't say it in some warm way. That's correct. Mockingly and sneeringly. Oh, Jersey, what exit are you from? But they ask very out of curiosity, if not intrigue, tell me about Chris Christie's. You really like that all the time. But we do have a certain way,

not just in Jersey, but I would say most of the Northeast part or the mid-Atlantic states of speaking a certain way very quickly, very brusque, very cut and dry, almost impatiently. And I will say,

I do plenty of political work in the South and it's a very different world there. I mean, everybody is, things move slower, and that's a compliment, by the way. People are not necessarily, you know, we had this lieutenant governor. You can do Southern Gracious if you have to. I can do Southern Gracious if I have to, and ability to learn patience. But it's very different.

I wonder how some of these Northeastern candidates would play in the South, because even Lieutenant Governor Kay Ivey of Alabama is a client of mine. She's Lieutenant Governor, but when she was running for Governor, I'd say, Kay, the day to prove it, you've got to hit back at these guys. They're ridiculing you. They're making fun of your tenure as State Treasurer when you balance budgets. She's, no, honey, she'll go, my granddaddy and his granddaddy were in the church a lot together. I would never, you know, and here I am, Jersey fresh, just like Chris Christie saying, hit him back. How did that turn out for her? She won. She won

on her own terms, with her own style. And, look, you know, Governor Pence of Indiana is a client of mine, too. It's another person who doesn't like running negative ads. You know, there's a certain, Dan Quayle was a client of mine when he ran for president. There's a certain Midwestern slash Southern sensibility in this

country. This is decidedly non-Jersey. But he wasn't mean to them. That's exactly right. Still, he got the last laugh. He's number two at Sarah Vist. He's done fine. Good. Can you do some presidential handicapping for us? Are you attached to any candidates? I am not currently. I will be.

No, I am not spoken for. Only to my husband, George. I'm not spoken for otherwise. Do some handicapping for us. Tell us about the horse race. Who are the strong horses? Who are the horses who may not get out of the gate so well? Sure. The race is fluid,

unsettled, open, and every conservative should welcome all of the above. The conservatives themselves tend to fall into this trap of, quote, and every conservative should welcome all of the above. The conservatives themselves tend to fall into this trap of, quote, electability. Who can win? It's an unprovable. Who knows who can win? Yeah, who knows who can win until they don't, Mitt Romney, John McCain, Bob Dole. And they were, you know, what else do they have in common? Well, we were told they can win, especially in the case of Romney and McCain. And then, of course, they didn't. They also have in common that they're card-carrying, proud moderates

who like bipartisanship for bipartisanship's sake, not as a means but as an end, not as a process but as an objective. And they're never willing to really paint in those bold colors, as Ronald Reagan had said. And this electability is a trap because the question is not, voters don't ask themselves, Jay, who can win. Voters ask who can lead. And their definite leadership is not electability. So to tell you who's doing well so far, it's the people who are looking past electability, who can win, and focusing on electoral college. That's really how you win. You win by winning

the electoral college. Mitt Romney won one of the nine swing states. We have lost choice to Barack Obama, Wisconsin, Michigan, Minnesota, Iowa, Ohio, Pennsylvania, once Indiana, once North Carolina, Virginia, Florida, Colorado, and New Mexico. So these Rocky Mountain and Rust Belt states. You'll know what I mean when I say this. Is that the fault of the candidate or the fault of the people, the voters? A little bit of both, but it's also you're missing another key point here. It's the fault of the people, the voters? A little bit of both, but it's also, you're missing another key point here. It's the fault of the consultants. The Republican Party suffers from staph infection. So let me explain something very simple to you. How do you spell staph?

Well, play on words here. That would be S-T-A-F-F here. Then the doctors can worry about the other one. We suffer from staph infection. I don't have a scintilla of sour grapes when I say that. All of my candidates won in 2014. I've made a fortune as a Republican pollster. I have a happy life. I say to someone who loves the movement and worries very much that we have the same people running the same campaigns according to the same scripts again and again. And you know what they do in the end when the candidates lose, Jay? They blame the candidates. Oh, Bob Dole, he did seem too old. Mitt Romney, way too stiff. John McCain, the people really thought he was nuts. It's like, guys, the other thing all three of them had in common is you. Please don't come back the fourth time.

And there's not an incentive to win. I'm sure they'd all like to win, but there's no disincentive for losing. They walk away with bags of money. Win or lose, they just get a slightly smaller shore house. So, Kellyanne, there's a straw poll here at CPAC. What's a straw poll? Where does that word straw come from? It's a great question.

Years ago, people usually literally threw their straws in for the individual. You know, think hay. But that's years in the making. Straw poll is not a scientific poll. It's a poll of the people who have registered at CPAC. So take it for what it is. It's illustrative. It's anecdotal.

It's fun. And it's an early determinant among hardcore concerned people, you know, hardcore conservatives who are concerned citizens. That's right. Thank you. Movement conservatives. And it's a nice form of direct democracy, and they get to express who their early favorites are. Now, CPAC, this is the first year we're running the straw poll. And CPAC, it it's really how you win is a combination of the legwork you do leading up to CPAC, which is do you have people in the audience? Have you bust in volunteers and folks who believe in you? It's that and the strength of your performance at CPAC.

Have you inspired people? Did you exceed low expectations, which is precisely what Governor Walker did in the Iowa Freedom Summit? I was there. I spoke right after him at the Iowa Freedom Summit. And he even told me, you know, the media, they have low expectations of me. They call me boring and bland. I said, and then when you're on eight cylinders, everybody hooting and hollering. He said, absolutely, and I think there's something to that, even here at CPAC. But this year in the straw poll, I'm thrilled to tell you, Jay,

that we put in a ton of policy questions, because that's who we are, after all, as movement conservatives. We have a great question in the air. You're running the straw poll. I'm running the straw poll here at CPAC. And we will announce on Saturday evening who the winners are of the, quote, presidential straw poll. There are 17 candidates on the straw poll.

And we decide on a list based on three very strict criteria. If you satisfy maybe two or three of the three. One is that you've hired people in early states or you've expanded your PAC activity since the 2014 elections. Number two is that you've told key people that you're seriously considering running. You've told the media. You've told donors. You've told grassroots activists. Maybe with a wink and a nod, but you've said that. And third, you've accepted invitations to key forum like the Iowa Freedom Summit or some of these clearly presidential forums. So you said winners plural?

There's not one winner? Well, there's always one winner. But to be fair, you know, last year Ted Cruz came in second, for example, and everybody forgot that because Rand Paul came in first the way his father had won it two other times. No, there will be winners, Jay, if, let's say the top four candidates are separated by eight points. I think we should talk about all four because we know how fluid and open this is. But I'm really focused on the policy questions because I'm a geek. I mean, I want to know what the deal breakers are.

We asked the question in the straw poll, Jay, of so which of the following, if any, would be a deal breaker for you? If you knew a Republican presidential candidate held the following position, you wouldn't vote for them under these circumstances. We have raised taxes in there. It's for executive amnesty. It supports Common Core. It supports gay marriage. So there's a bunch of different things in there that seem to be some hot buttons for movement conservatives. We also have a number of national security questions in there for obvious reasons, but also the world's on fire. And as you saw in

the 2014 election, security mom has returned if in fact she'd ever gone away in the first place. But the three legs of the Reagan stool are represented in the straw poll, and they're also represented in a lot of this activism boot camp and breakout sessions at CPAC. And those three legs are economics, social issues, foreign policy, national security. Check, check, check. In under a minute, are you hopeful about America? I'm always hopeful about America, the country I love, and that God must have loved me so much, allowed me to be born here. And I'm very hopeful for America, and Americans are hopeful.

The fact that you see such pessimistic public opinion numbers for Americans really tells you how bad it is because people don't want to give those answers by and large. They want to feel like they're living in the best times, but they feel that they just can't get ahead. I'll tell you, for all the concentration that people have on job creators and job seekers, the real trick are job holders. You've got people who say, we have a job. We have two, three jobs in the household. I'm not worried about losing a job or replacing a job. But why is a job no longer enough? Unlike when your grandfather had a job, Jay, or my grandfather had a job that was enough to support his family, take a station wagon vacation each summer. It's no longer enough. And people are wondering why that is. Very well put. Final question. If not for the 22nd Amendment, would Barack Obama win a third term? No, he would not. In fact, I don't think the

Democratic nominee will win the third Barack Obama term. I don't think Joe Biden is running for the third Obama-Biden term. Do you think Bill Clinton would have won a third term? Not then. He could now. That's the irony. Hillary, he could not have won then because he was reelected before the Monica Lewinsky scandal and before all that drama. and even if people felt that was about sex and not about lying under oath, they really don't like drama after a while. There's a certain decorum attached to the presidency, and there are certain duties that the president has that most Americans are fundamentally aware of, and they expect you to execute those. Can you entertain them once in a while? Can you inspire them? Often terrific. But that day job is a pretty hefty one, and they expect performance. He would

not have won a third term. Hillary Clinton is running for Bill Clinton's third term, because he could win it now. But she should be forced to run for Barack Obama's third term, and nobody should let her put a piece of tissue paper between her and Barack Obama. Those are wise words, crafty words, from Kellyanne Conway of the polling company.

Thanks a lot. Thank you, Jay. It's a pleasure. Ricochet. Join the conversation.