The Ricochet Podcast - Murder on Sesame Street

Episode Date: July 18, 2025

Hardly a week passes without an event happening that compels one to wonder what it means for the contemporary right. It just so happens that this week, Matt Continetti, author of the indispensable book about the right, is able to join us to discuss the latest intraparty quarrels over Jeffrey Epstein, the One Big Beautiful Bill, foreign wars, and the domestic cultural kind. Plus, John Yoo joins James and Steve in the co-host panel for a chat on the defunding of NPR and PBS, McMahon v. New York, migraine-inducing pop references, and the social uplift of fat-shaming.- Sound clip from this week's open: President Trump in the Oval Office calling the Epstein Files "a hoax."- Get a FREE report with all the details at Bank on Yourself.com/ RICOCHET

Morning. Can you hear me? You're really loud. Too hot. Too hot. Yeah. I will adjust. I will adjust that. Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall. It's the Ricochet podcast with Stephen Hayward and John Yoo sitting in for Charlie. I'm James Lilacs. Today we talked to Matt Contenetti about a new edition of his book and what 2025 is all about. So let's have ourselves a podcast. Has your attorney general told you this was a hoax?

What evidence have you seen of that? No, it's not the attorney general. No, I know it's a hoax. It's started by Democrats. It's been run by the Democrats for four years. You had Christopher Wray in these characters and Comey before. And some stupid Republicans and foolish Republicans fall into the net. And so they try and do the Democrats' work. Welcome everybody. It's the Ricochet Podcast, number 749.

Hey, you, why don't you go to ricochet podcast number 749 hey you Don't you go to ricochet calm join up and be part of the most stimulating conversation and community you'll find on the web I'm James lilacs in Minneapolis Stephen Hayward is in California and also in California sitting in for Charles the CW cook or for all I know permanently Replacing him by some sort of palace coup is John woo cool. Whoa And the name is you. When you bow down before your robot overlords, you better get their names right. You got that straight.

Well, gentlemen, I hope your necks are OK and haven't been whiplashed too much. But apparently we have another Epstein twist story, which I have been sort of minimally following because I don't know what to think. I have had many opinions and they have drained away in importance over the years but why don't you tell me exactly where we are now. A letter was released supposedly, well supposed letter by Trump in the Wall Street Journal, threats of suits, threats of consequences. Trump says it's fake.

And now we're gonna release the files. I say that with hesitation because by the time somebody listens to this, they may discover there's no files whatsoever and they've been burned and they have been sent into a pit in the air. I don't know, so where are we now? Well, all I was gonna say is what I've said before is that I don't think there's any,

there was never any list, or at least not a list, kept by Epstein, and any reconstructed list is probably unusable. I suspect it's reached the keystone cops phase of the investigation. There's just all kinds of problems with it, and I'm more interested in the Richard Epstein files, which could be even more tedious in some ways.

But I don't know, this is now just a giant distraction and this new wrinkle of Trump sending a birthday greeting to Epstein 22 years ago, is that right? Something like that. And then Trump is now, apparently this morning, the news is out, he's going to sue the Wall Street Journal for publishing what he says is made up. And I don't know. There is this great debate going on on Twitter about whether there's a certain word Trump used

in the letter that someone said, no, Trump would never use that word. I forget what it is now, but then someone found video of him using a slightly recondite term. I can't believe I can't remember it. So we're now down to the parsing out what words are in Trump's vocabulary from 22 years ago. So it's silly season.

You're saying it's a distraction, John. Distraction, yeah. Who's being distracted? Are you distracted? I'm terribly distracted as it seems America and our political system. I have to say, I enjoy reading about this just in the way you might like reading about

how your former employer, the workplace is all screwed up now. Because I used to work at the Justice Department. And first, the idea of people like Cash Patel and Dan Bongino, who are wonderfully entertaining TV and radio and podcast hosts, actually in charge of the FBI, first is shocking. Then they made part of their careers by saying that the government had somehow covered up or conspired to kill this Jeffrey Epstein fellow and then they get in the FBI and then they say there's no evidence of that and then all their fellow travelers are now piling on them. And third, I gotta say there's no way that President Trump can order the release of the

Epstein files. So one, you shouldn't release anything in the Epstein files. So one, you shouldn't release anything in the Epstein files. And if you've ever seen a raw law enforcement file, you know, to prepare for prosecutions can be filled with gossip, innuendo, people, you know, getting back at other people, lies, mistruths. It's almost like the transcript of a podcast. Then, so the purpose of this is you don't release that in the public because you're going to besmirch the reputations of all kinds of people. Usually the only way the Justice Department should be speaking is when they indict someone

and the indictment speaks for itself. You don't go around releasing all the gossip and rumors you come across. Second point, and I'll stop here, is the really sensitive material has been sealed by a grand jury, because it was presented to a grand jury for indictment, has been sealed by a federal judge. The president can't order it released. The only people who can release it would be the judge, or Congress would have to change the law about how we keep those things secret.

Congress isn't going to do that. So I don't think we're really going to know unless people who are in the files themselves Go to the judge and say I want my name to be released. I want to prove my innocence Perhaps that's the only way we're gonna get it Highly unlikely highly unlikely that's gonna happen. I can't see anybody. I mean I can see somebody volunteering to be on a cold plate jumbotron with their mistress before I can somebody volunteering to be on a cold plate jumbotron with their mistress before I can imagine something like that. Wait, wait, that just sounds like another cabinet interview with President Trump. Well, again, you know, my whole, I don't know what we're supposed to find out from these

things. I think what a lot of people, there's sort of emanations and the numbers of the Q about this because there's a lot of people who have gone down to the Epstein file as numbers of the queue about this, because there's a lot of people who have gone down to the Epstein file as part of the proof that there's this large satanic conspiracy of trading children around. And I have no idea that there, or I have no doubt that there are people in Washington DC

in power and finance everywhere who have absolutely appalling records of behavior when it comes to the youth of America or other countries. But whether or not that there's some actual pizza gate style thing going on here, I don't think so. Anyway, that's just my naive belief sitting here thousands of miles from anything important. Moving right along, we've got McMahon versus New York.

This is interesting. John, you being the legal guy, why don't you tell us what this one's all about? So McMahon versus New York, this is the case about, just recently decided by the Supreme Court, about whether the president can continue to go forward with his reductions in force. Correct. This is at the Department of Education and how to explain it. So the Supreme Court did not issue an opinion. The only opinion we saw were from the dissenters.

This was just to lift a district court's ban on carrying out the reductions in force. So this is really the Supreme Court saying, hey you, trial judges, there's a thousand of them. Hey you guys, did you not read our opinion from two weeks ago in the Nationwide Injunctions case? Do we need to spell it out for you? Let's repeat ourselves. A district judge cannot stop the entire federal government from carrying out its policies unless it goes to the U.S. Supreme Court. That's all this case says. It's actually not a review on whether President Trump ultimately will win. I think that's going to go back up to the Supreme Court. But in

the meantime, the court said no single judge in Boston or New York or Maryland is going to sit there and sort of sit and be the ombudsman or the micromanager of the executive branch. Now the important thing that people didn't observe in the news reports is that the government promised that it would not shut down the Education Department unless Congress said so. And in fact it said in its pleadings to the court, we're only getting rid of the fat. We're not going to fire anyone who's essential for the core operations of the Department of Education. We understand that when it comes down to shuttering the place, only Congress can do that. And so all these claims in the media of, you know, out of control president, defying congressional orders, shutting down agencies left and right, it's just not true.

It's just not true. Even the Trump administration's court papers says, we understand Congress is preeminent. We're just getting rid of people who are not necessary for the core functionings of the department and try to save money for the taxpayer. Stephen, we've been told that the State Department is now non-functional, that war will break out everywhere because they went through with a scythe, with a meat cleaver, with a wood chipper and just absolutely cleaned out the place. Is that what happened? Of course not. with a meat cleaver, with a wood chipper, and just absolutely cleaned out the place. Is that what happened? Of course not.

I don't have the head count numbers in front of me, but the State Department's total head count has gone up by something like 10,000 people over the last 15 years. And so this 1200, 1300 laid off last week is a reduction for us of less than 2%. But beyond all that, what do all these people do? Mostly bad stuff.

And I've been ranting for quite a while now about three particular places. We spent over a billion dollars to build an embassy compound in Baghdad. It's the largest US embassy compound in the world. Has a very nice reflecting pool, by the way, and some nice architecture. And we spent $700 million on a huge embassy compound

in Kabul, Afghanistan. That's now the largest office building for the Taliban. And we're also in the process of building, or may have finished, a billion dollar embassy compound in Beirut. Now, I'll just submit to you that the Israelis did more for the progress and improvement of Lebanon by taking out Hezbollah

than a billion dollar State Department footprint in Beirut is ever going to do. Why these huge expensive palaces and the huge staff that go with them? Well because the State Department... To be fair, to be fair, to be fair, Stephen, in Beirut, you're going to want the walls to be about 14 feet thick. Yeah. So I think that's going to be what you cost. Well yes, but you're going to put hundreds of people in it. And I bet we could do our essential business with maybe 50 people or 100 people and still have adequate security.

You don't need to spend that kind of money. You only spend that kind of money if you have this grandiose presumption that you are there to run the country and run the world. Why do we want to have a big footprint in Kabul, Afghanistan, even if we're going to keep some military force there, which we didn't. It just, you know, the shocking waste of all this and presumption of it is, to my mind, unconscionable. And I think Trump didn't fire enough people from the State Department. I think they should get rid of another 10%. Steve. Yes. I know, I'm mean. They can all go to work for NPR. Ha ha. Which brings us to the great cries and lamentations as I was reading my local subreddit about Minnesota.

And they quote an old lady who lives in the sticks who loves the polka show that they run. And now she's not going to have her polka show anymore. I feel for her. I remember the days when AM radio was absolutely full of polka when you drove around the rural parts of the state. But A, it's possible that locals may pick up the slack if they wish. And B, it's possible that she has access to something called the Internet where one can find in abundance polka of all manner, sort, shape, and variety. We've been told that the cuts are going to destroy NPR and PBS, but A, no they're not, and B, the whole notion of state media in the first place ought to seem a little un-American to people, but we've been living so long with the Holy Ghost, the holy presence of PBS and NPR held up as a model an absolute shining beacon of

non-partial essential cultural commission that without it there would be no Masterpiece Theatre there would be no Cecily Street there now that may have been true at one time of the past but it isn't anymore so it's a small cut and it's not going to destroy these things and I'm not sure why it's a small cut and it's not gonna destroy these things and I'm not sure why it's as controversial as it is. Unless of course you just. Can I say James, I love PBS. I love NPR actually. I do, I really enjoy listening to them.

It's just like sitting around at the Berkeley Faculty Club meetings. It's just like on the radio instead, it's great. But look, I actually love Masterpiece Theatre. I love all those British TV shows. I love watching all these ways that the British think of murdering each other. They're so clever at it. They should be killing more of each other. Every British TV show seems to be about whodunit murders. But I also loved watching iClaudius and Brideshead Revisited. But now if you get a streaming service and you pay,

I think I pay $10 a month, I can watch almost every BBC TV show that was ever filmed. You know, I can watch Steve Hayward's favorite show, Doctor Who, where the reptilians show up and you can see the floppy arms have human beings in them. And it's really just fake clothes they got on. It's black and white. It's wonderful.

But you know what? I've never given a dollar, not a single dollar to NPR or PBS, even though they run these campaigns endlessly, because the government paid for it. Now you've put me in this terrible situation where I have to decide whether I'm going to give money to keep it going. Yeah, but John, you really are behind the times. I mean, all of the, I'll put it this way, costume dramas these days are not appearing first on PBS.

You know, Bridgerton and Rome 20 years ago, they're on HBO. Well, Steve, you know, you're just watching the ones that have nudity in them. I mean, come on, you can't admit it. Oh, no, that was my joke about it. I never could get into Game of Thrones because there wasn't enough sex and violence in it for me. I just, I actually did find it boring, I have to say. But yeah, all right. Of course, I understand exactly what you mean.

When I was growing up, PBS was the source for Monty Python on Sunday night, for The Prisoner. For The Prisoner, for all of these shows, none of which they made, but they brought them over and that was fine and well. I remember when I was a seed salesman in the South down in 1979, I would try to time my weekends for a city that was big enough to have a PBS reception

so I could watch iClaudius. But that was a very long time ago and things have changed. Can I say a quick point of what, I mean I think this is relevant. If I recall this right, National PBS was offered money Python, I mean, I think this is relevant. If I recall this right, National PBS was offered money Python. They said, no, this is too weird. It was a Dallas affiliate that picked it up first

and then it spread from there. So it was a local station that said, actually, we think this is pretty funny. I think that's how it went. I think you're absolutely right. And we've been told a different story perhaps because we've been lied to. Are you being lied to, my friends?

Are you being lied to? They friends? Are you being lied to? You know, they tell you to defer paying your taxes by saving in a 401k or an IRA because you retire in a lower tax bracket. But if that was true, why are so many retirees in the highest tax bracket of their lives? Look, it's time to get the truth and discover a better way to grow and protect your money.

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and get your free report. That's bankonyourself.com slash ricochet. Bankonyourself.com slash ricochet. Bankonyourself.com slash ricochet. And we thank Bank On Yourself for sponsoring this, the Ricochet podcast. And now we welcome back to the podcast, Matthew Conanetti, Director of Domestic Policy Studies and the inaugural Patrick and Charlene Neal Chair

in American Prosperity at the American Enterprise Institute. And of course, he's a columnist at Commentary Magazine and the Free Press, and he's the author of The Right, The Hundred Year War for American Conservatism. Matt, welcome back. Thanks for having me. Well, you completed The Right in 19, or 1922, boy, you're not worth, sorry,

I feel a little old today, I retired. In 2022, and you, of course, were aware the story was ongoing. Have you thought about how the final chapters of your book would look if you were wrapping it up today? Because Wright keeps getting redefined underneath us, doesn't it? It does.

And I think a lot about that question. If I were to update the story to the summer of 2025, what would I cover? When the paperback edition of the Wright came out, it included a new chapter that I had written and sent to press right after the midterm elections of 2022. And if you recall, that was really the low point of Donald Trump's political strength in the Republican party. The midterms had not gone as well for the GOP as they had expected.

A lot of that was because of Trump's endorsing candidates who the electorate just didn't really like. Trump announced his presidential campaign, his third presidential campaign, for the GOP nomination shortly after the midterm election. And the event at Mar-a-Lago did not go very well. People weren't really excited by it. All the energy was on Ron DeSantis' side. Ron DeSantis, who had done very well in 2022, seemed to represent the next iteration of MAGA, MAGA perhaps without Trump's baggage.

And within six months of the paperback coming out, and me saying that there was a chance that the Republican party might move on from Trump, Trump had solidified once again, his position as leader of the GOP and leader of this MAGA movement. One reason for that was his just natural political talent. But the second and main reason I I think, was shortly after the midterm election is when the lawfare campaign against Trump began. And then in the spring of 2023 is when the New York indictment came down as well. That had the effect of rallying the Republican Party to Trump's side and it has not left him ever since. So that was the main, uh,

unanticipated event was the revival of Trump, a revival that only accelerated, uh, from 2023, uh, through the assassination attempt one year ago this past week, uh, and into today. assassination attempt one year ago this past week and into today. Yeah my realization that I know absolutely nothing came to me when I thought to Santa's was gonna just walk away with it. I thought he was palatable. I thought that he would cross body. He had this proven record of governance and just died on the vine and I thought okay that's it my instincts never gonna trust him again.

Stephen. Yeah so, you're lucky today that we have John Yoo sitting in for Charlie Cook because you may not know this, but John's nickname or acronym is OGNC, which stands for Original Gangsta Neocon. And that brings me to you guys at commentary. I do tune into your daily podcast fairly often when I'm home and on a walk in the afternoon,

and I've noticed something. I mean, let's not put too fine a point on it, but Trump has never been a favorite of john putt harrads and abe and your colleagues. I mean you're the one person who's always Said nicer things about him, but now suddenly starting about three weeks ago And maybe more seems to me that you guys have signed up for maga and now is it just because he bombed the The ford nuclear site, which you know, john said on Twitter a couple times, that's enough for me. He's great, right? But I have to say there's been a real change in tone and looks to me like it's going to last. And so what say you to that provocation? Well, I can't speak for my colleagues on the commentary podcast. I have noticed that my friend and leader,

John Podhoretz, has been very positive about Trump's decision to join the Israeli campaign against Iran and bomb the three nuclear facilities in Operation Midnight Hammer. And that is because John and others in our orbit and commentary magazine have argued for exactly that sort of military intervention in order to prevent Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon for Decades and it was Donald Trump who actually did it so Trump deserves to be commended For that I still think they're My friends on the pod are going to have criticisms of Trump now and then, and there are a few

things that Trump has done in this administration that I disagree with. But I think overall what we've seen in this second administration is first, Trump has advanced conservative priorities, long-standing conservative priorities, along with the new MAGA agenda, not all of which we agree with. But second, and perhaps most importantly, the left's reaction to Trump and the radical swing of the Democratic Party toward socialism, toward anti-Semitism, toward isolationism, is something that my friends, a commentary, my colleagues and I strongly condemn and oppose. So, you know, as you know, Steve, in politics,

it's often what you're against matters more than what you're actually for. And when you look at the democratic party today, or at least when I look at it, I don't, I see everything that I'm against and nothing that I'm for. Well, let's take another domain. Let's leave Israel aside for a moment.

And so just this week, the Republican Congress finally defunded NPR and PBS. People back as far as the Reagan years want to do that. Newt Gingrich took a run at it, right? And people said, I remember one interview with Newt in 1995 1995 and someone said, oh, but you'll kill Big Bird. And Newt said back, Big Bird makes money. Why do they need to arm? But he didn't get anywhere with it, right? It took Trump and the Trumpian moment, you might say, to do that as well. And I can think of there are a few stronger critics of that whole domain of state-run media than, again, the commentary crowd. So it seems to me you've got to give Trump

and the Republican Congress, he's galvanized, just huge props for doing things that they were always too chicken to do previously. That's right. You know, not only were they chicken to do it, but they just didn't have the consensus within the party. They weren't prepared to do it. This is a paradoxical advantage of having such narrow congressional majorities,

is there's less room for that marginal member to hide and to throw a wrench into the congressional agenda or to the president's agenda. And Trump has been able to exercise incredible leverage over the Republicans in Congress. That's partly because Trump is so popular in the Republican Party. It's also because Trump has changed the Republican Party so that people who have been vocally against him or his policies just aren't there anymore. And then it's also, I think, a result of the 2020 experience,

the pandemic experience, the great awakening that happened in 2020. That had the effect of making many Republicans much less tolerant of taxpayer-subsidized leftism. And whether that was in the schools, whether that's in the universities, or whether it's at PBS and NPR, the Republicans as a rule just don't have the tolerance

for it any longer. They don't want to continue to spend taxpayer funds propping up anti-American, anti-Western ideologies. Hey, Matt. Good to see you. I'm not going to release any details, but Matt and I were at one of the last remaining, as Steve calls them, neoconclaves. I think there were just the two of us there and all these other conservatives.

It was great. It was like Back to the Future 2006 edition. That was great. It was like, it was like back to the future 2006 edition. It was wonderful. I know where you guys were. I got to see the Continetti family struggle at pickleball, at pickleball. As Dick Cheney slammed on them with his Ariel Michael Jordan reverse back slam on the pickleball court. So actually, I gotta ask you about something I just don't get, which is why is this Epstein thing causing such a disruption in the Trump, I don't know if you can call it a coalition order, but explain why this is so important.

It's totally, I think, killed Trump's political momentum. He spent the last week talking about Epstein instead of the passage of his tax bill, instead of the rescission package. And it seems to be flooding both conservative and liberal media. What explains this? Well, killing Trump's political momentum explains why the Democrats are so excited by the Epstein story. They have finally found a story. They finally found an issue that puts the administration on its back foot and that divides the Republican MAGA coalition. It's been months since they've been on the offensive, the Democrats. So that's the Democrats.

That's easy. The question is the Republicans and MAGA, and in particular, the MAGA, and in particular the MAGA influencers, the podcasters, the kind of activist crowd that at a recent conference held by Charlie Kirk of Turning Point USA, went after the Trump administration for covering up the Epstein case. What is, what's going on here? Well, I think the writer, Park McDougal, had a very good piece in the free press speaking about how what's happening is some of Trump's podcast base has been alienated from the administration in the second hundred days, whether that was Operation Midnight Hammer,

which they had argued against, whether that was the onenight Hammer, which they had argued against, whether that was the one big beautiful bill which Elon Musk famously left the GOP over and other figures like Steve Bannon felt should have raised taxes instead of keeping them low. There's an ongoing debate inside the administration right now about whether there should be some sort of immigration arrangement that either legalizes or at least kind of puts safe caps on safeguards around the migrant worker population or even the hotel worker population so for on those three axes, you see that the new right wing, the Bannons, the Tucker Carlson's, they are very much on the defensive and they have real problems with certain policies of Trump.

How does this manifest itself? Well, it manifests itself, I think, in going after the administration on Epstein. Now, a couple more things. The first is the administration hasn't helped. And that is Attorney General Bondi did over promise and under deliver. Whether it was saying that the Epstein files were on her desk, maybe she, I'm sympathetic, she may have misspoken on TV, but you know, when you're AG, you have to be careful with what you say. Whether it was that photo op where they brought the influencers into the White House and then they gave him these binders where it turns out that it was pretty much previously disclosed information about Epstein. To have those two moments followed a few months later by this just pronouncement that the

investigation was over and that there was no list, there was no blackmail, and there was no foul play in Jeffrey Epstein's death really antagonized a lot of people who look at other stories, whether it's the JFK files that have been released or whether it's the UFO story where the Caroline Levitt came out and she said, we looked into this, what we found that the strange lights in New Jersey that we were following last year turned out to be all domestically made, right? Whether it's the president's health, you know, just yesterday in response to people who had been noticing that Trump's ankles had been swollen and the bruise on one of his hands, the administration came out with a letter actually from his physician saying that he has a

typical condition for people of his age physician saying that he has a typical condition for people of his age that leads to ankle swelling. Epstein, there just hasn't been that same amount of transparency and even though there may be no there there and I'm very skeptical that there is a there there, that's led to additional questions as well. So it's a combination, John, of opportunism by the Democrats and Never Trumpers, along with kind of a mishandling of the way in which this information was presented to the public on the part of the administration, which then has produced this kind of revolt. I will just say this finally,

the Wall Street Journal story that broke today, July 18th, before, well, broke on the 17th, we're recording this on the 18th, with the alleged letter that Trump sent Epstein on, for Epstein's 50th birthday, that has had the effect, it seems to me, of rallying MAGA together because yes, a lot of MAGA pundits want transparency and they believe in kind of these theories that powerful people are shielding one another from accountability on sex crimes, but they hate the mainstream media even more. And so if Trump is able to focus on the media as the common enemy, then he might be able

to bring the band back together. I was provided by a producer a quote from your recent piece of yours, James Burnham. And I like this quote, I hate it, but I like it. Quote, when the Western liberals feeling of guilt and his associated feeling of moral vulnerability before the sorrows and demands of the wretched become obsessive, he often develops a generalized hatred of Western civilization and of his own country as part of the West. End quote.

And we've been seeing this everywhere. You see it in stories every single day. On Twitter, of course, if the algorithm has figured out that you can like these things. One of the most notable to me the other day was they were having a cultural enrichment, diversity celebration event at a school in England. And a girl wore a Union Jack and she had a speech about Englishness and how it was wonderful. And she was proud to be she was sent home because that was the wrong.

We're not going to celebrate that. Somebody else pointed out that a quote that talked about suicidal empathy, referring to, I think, it was a New York Times piece, which talked about how empathy became a toxic subject on the right and the rest of it. The idea that one should become a global philanthropist before a national philanthropist,

because the West has committed so many sins, done such evil is so uniquely inherently intrinsically bad that the only enlightened position is to detest it and to seek to tear it down or at least to acquiesce in its destruction. So you wrote that piece, explain how you use that quote in your piece and how it applies today to, let's say, the campus situation. Sure. Well, the quote comes from James Burnham, the Titanic intellectual who exercised such a remarkable influence on William F. Buckley Jr. in the National Review. The quote specifically comes from Burnham's book, Suicide of the West, first published in 1964.

And what I like about that quote and what I like about that book is this is James Burnham really diagnosing the liberal mentality. mentality, decades before I was born and some 60 years before what we've seen on our college campuses after October 7th. This guilt drive that seems to explain a lot of liberal views, in particular their obsession with the victim-victimizer binary and always identifying with the victim. And the victim is always the victim of Western society or systemic racism or the patriarchy. That can be identified throughout the history of the left in more radical forms, but also in the milder forms of American liberalism.

So it's a very stunning quote, and I recommend the book, which is still in print. Encounter brought out an edition about a decade ago that you can get to understand liberals. And there are some dated parts, but really that fundamental diagnosis holds up. And like you say, we see it on campuses today, and we see it in the anti-Semitism, the anti-Zionism that's coming from campuses today. This guilt over Israel, the guilt stemming from this idea that Israel is a Western colonialist project, which it is not. I was going to say, God, I hope so.

What was the whole point of all the aid that I've been giving up? And so, this tendency to always fall back on oppressor oppressed and this guilt complex that motivates, I think, a willful blindness among liberals toward the enemies of civilization, this is something that has been present for a long time. In one way, it's reassuring because it means that even though our technology changes, the names and faces change, the fundamentals of politics remain the same, the argument remains the same. But what I think we need more of today are people who will stand up

for the the Western civilization stand up for Biblical civilization Judaism Christianity Zionism and Americanism the principles and institutions of the American founding and say that we are proud of these we are not ashamed and If I have to identify one source of Donald Trump's political longevity, I would say is that he does Proudly say he is for all these things and he's certainly not afraid when the left or others try to Delegitimize him, demean him, or kill him.

It is refreshing. I mean, because when politicians on the left talk about how much they love America, either the words just sort of turn to ashes in their mouth, you don't believe them, or it's a theoretical America that they like. It's one that's never existed that will be perfect if and or when their particular... I mean, like, you know, New York's mayor in a year may say I love America but that's just because he's successfully nationalized every corporation in Manhattan. Stephen? Well one of the other things you mentioned and I think it's in your book is that Bill Buckley much back in the news because of the Tannenhouse biography once kind of equivocated about his famous remark

that it's better to be governed by the first 2000 names in the Boston phone directory than the faculty of Harvard University. Okay, so maybe Buckley is at his core an elitist. He used to say, look, when I want heart surgery, I want an elitist doctor. So of course, so he confessed to that. But I've always thought that that phrase should be modified,

that it'd be better to be educated by the first 2,000 names in the Boston phone directory than the faculty of Harvard University. That I don't think he would dissent on at all. Now, I'm not following the machinations of Columbia at a granular level like your successor to Free Beacon, Eliana Johnson, is, but you're a Columbia graduate. What's the latest on that? Are you optimistic that for all the blunderbuss that trump is using much of which I like maybe all of which I like Are you optimistic that we're actually going to see some fundamental changes at columbia or anywhere else? Well, the free beacon has been reporting that the administration in columbia may be close to a deal and

many in the pro-Israel community, many critics of Columbia University are a little bit alarmed at the details of this deal which has not been finalized. They feel that though Columbia would pay a very large fine and make some changes to its governance, the underlying problems will not be treated appropriately. So we'll see what happens. Of course, the deal would have to be authorized by Trump, and he hasn't done so yet. I think, Steve, that Colombia's problems run really deep. And they are many decades in the making.

And I have to say, I was a little bit shocked when Trump suspended the foreign student visas to Harvard. There was a flurry of articles about the percentage of foreign students at our elite universities. Colombia, if I recall correctly, was somewhere around 47% of the student body comes from overseas. And that was not the case when I graduated there 20 years ago.

And I think what's happened over the intervening years is that Columbia really decided to become Edward Said University, really decided to become the institutional body that represented the views of one of Colombia's most famous professors, Edward Said, the author of Orientalism and a supporter of the PLO, a critic, a vociferous enemy of the state of Israel, and someone who was a stylish literary writer but who used that verbal ability, which he did have, to advance a very anti-Western, anti-American, anti-Israel perspective. That mindset has been slowly embedded into the institution over time because of different decisions by the administration, successive administrations. Let's not forget that when I

was there, we welcomed Lee Bollinger, the famous defender of affirmative action, from the University of Michigan. He came and became president of Columbia University, I think, in my final year there, in 0203. And just a few years after I left, he ostentatiously invited Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to address the campus. The man who had called for the destruction of Israel, a destruction of America, a radical Iranian politician. And to get that word radical in front of you when you're an Iranian politician,

you really need to be radical, right? It's not just an ordinary anti-American mullah. I mean, Ahmadinejad, if you remember, as I know you do, he was out there. And yet here he was at Columbia. So this deal, making Columbia pay is important. But if we really want to change Columbia, I always prefer the Carthaginian option.

I understand. Well, it used to be said that we want foreign students to come here so they can learn about America and love America and spread their love of America when they go back home. And now it's just like, well, you know what? You can hate America from a distance. From now on, Colombia is only gonna be for American kids

so our kids can learn how to hate America the Columbia way. John, you got something, you got a last one for Matt before we go? Yeah, I'm just curious about, so this split you were talking about before within the GOP that you see reflected in the response to Epstein files,

what do you think that shows about the struggle inside the administration? Is this the JD Vance wing versus the Marco Rubio wing? What do you suggest for what's going on inside the administration? And you know, I mean, it's so early, but you know, how do you think this plays into handicapping who Trump's successor is going to be? Yeah, that's a great question. I think it's less about a struggle inside the administration because it's clear from

the past several weeks that Trump is the decider. Trump is the most powerful force in that administration and even if people are counseling alternate approaches, they really don't bring their differences of opinion to the public. So there really is Trump. He defines what that administration is going to do. And as we were talking about in his true social post this past week, he said that the critics, the outside critics of his position on Epstein were former supporters. He doesn't want their support. I think where this really

comes into play though John is the 2028 stakes and Clearly JD Vance is the frontrunner for the Republican nomination in all the polls He's far and away ahead in first place. He is the incumbent vice president Which always counts for a lot? But I do think that Vance is, you know, has his kind of eyes over his shoulder at a potential candidate from the more online wing of MAGA, the podcaster wing, if you will. Would Tucker Carlson decide to run for the Republican nomination that would present a political challenge? For Vance and how he formulates his policies and message at the same time though

I also think that what's been revealed over the past few weeks is these podcasters don't have much influence You know, we're looking at polls of Republican support for Trump You know, we're looking at polls of Republican support for Trump. Republican support for Trump went up during the Epstein scandal, even as the public says, the administration should be handling it better and should disclose more information. So the same thing with Operation Midnight Hammer, by the way, all the polls we have showed that Republicans really support Trump's peace through strength approach on Iran. So I do think there's more bark than than bite here, but it's one reason that Vance is very circumspect about how he handles these more controversial issues for the podcast right. The idea that podcasters are not influential is one of those ridiculous statements.

Well, the other podcasters. Right. No, but you're absolutely right. And it's the same thing with people who marinate in Twitter, X all day. You become convinced of a certain line of thought that it's the dominant line of thought. It shapes everything that you hear and you're completely unaware that most people don't agree, don't know what you're talking about and don't care. Or they view it as entertainment. Right? I think a lot of people just watch these podcasters and it's just something to do. It's better than what's on TV. That's for sure.

And but that doesn't mean they're going to believe everything they say or act on what they say. And it doesn't necessarily mean that they even listen to the podcast. They may see a video clip that shows up on TikTok as they're scrolling between a million different feeds. Well, thank you for being on with us today, man. I have to say, you had the opportunity to write an extra chapter to that book

about that ended with 2022, and you did not go back and retcon the rest of it so that you could be proven absolutely correct. It's a marvelous opportunity you missed, but it shows that you were an ethical man, and we admire that. Also lazy, yeah. Exactly.

Right. Well, we'll look to see what your next prediction is, and then we will go on and bet perhaps in a contrary wise based on that. So we've got to get that average up there. Matt, Conan, Eddie, follow him, read him wherever you got him. And it's been a pleasure as ever to talk to you today. Have a great rest of July. You too. Thanks again. Bye bye. So we need to tell you about a couple of things before we head out here. And one of them is,

well, well, we got Ricochet meetups. That's right. Ricochet is not just a website with So we need to tell you about a couple of things before we head out here and one of them is well well We got ricochet meetups. That's right Ricochet is not just a website with a bunch of guys who yammer away on podcasts It is a community and if you go there and you sign up for the member feed, which is cheap You get access to all kinds of new friends, frankly That's what they become quite quickly and then then they get together sometimes, periodically in person, and talk about generally anything except politics. The ricochet meetups I've been, it's like,

yeah, yeah, yeah, we can talk about that, but there's so much more to discover about each other and share and talk. Hey, you're into old coins from Rome too? So am I. And off you go. So we got three coming up here. We think Matt Balzer holding the annual German Fest Meetup,

July 25th to 27th, in, of course, Milwaukee. Randy Weilva, I never pronounce your name right, Randy, and is a guy who's been Lilix all of his life instead of the correct Lilix, you have my sympathy. Anyway, Randy, longstanding member, assembling a group to meet in Detroit, August 15th through the 18th. Huh, I wonder if I'm gonna be anywhere close.

And Red Herring, I am so tempted, just posted about a Ricochet at Sea cruise meetup to tour the Caribbean in December. If you're a fan of the old National Review cruises, you know what that's like. It's a great ship. Actually, it's one of the new ships, I haven't been on it. And just bobbing around the Caribbean for a week,

having good meals, enjoying the buffet and the shows and the conversations and nights up in the crow's nest. I miss it. I really do. And I am so tempted. Me too. Me too. Anyway, so that's that. So John, what's on your mind that you would like to leave us with? I'm curious about your take since you are a Californian and since you know the state intimately. Whether or not people there are more upset about the funding of the train to nowhere or upset about the fact that ice, cruel, mean ice, is apparently keeping pot farmers from using illegal migrant children to grow the weed.

Where are we as a country, for heaven sakes? Well, since Steve is the only one who's ever likely to see either of these things in person, high-speed rail or the pot farms, right, given where he lives down in the center of the state. But I can tell you up here in San Francisco, people are pissed off about the pot. We're never going to see the high-speed rail up here. Although I have to say, and I think Steve agrees with this, people in San Francisco are suddenly turning optimistic because we have a mayor who doesn't seem to be a left-wing radical. Crime is dropping, the streets are becoming safer, I think businesses are returning, and it's all because we put the guy whose family

made Levi jeans in charge. Now that's where, you know, that's when, I hope we can get the guy from Wrangler to come next because they are turning the city around. Right, right, right. So by the way, I'm surprised, James, that you didn't, maybe you did, think of a link between high-speed rail and getting high on pot. I mean, they ought to run the rail through the pot farms, I think. One thing, you know, I am not far away from those pot farms in Camarillo.

I drive by there when I head down to Pepperdine every week during the semester. And I watched the TV news coverage and it was all hysteria. You know, they kept interviewing the protestor on the corner saying this is the Gestapo, this is fascism, all the rest of that. Well, I know a few people in the ag business down in that area. And they all hate the pot farms because they're sort of smelly and intrusive and a lot of them got their permits during COVID. I have a sneaking suspicion that the media will never investigate

that a lot of those other people in the ag business are the ones who dropped the dime on them to ICE. I'll bet some of those people called up ICE and said, you know who's got a whole lot of illegal farm laborers and children working or this, this, this, this farm. Otherwise, how did ICE know to go, you know, 90 miles north of Los Angeles to conduct those raids? I am convinced that is what happened,

and you heard it here first, listeners. Entirely possible. Or drone surveillance using some sort of height calibration devices. I mean, who knows? Who absolutely, absolutely no idea, but yeah. I mean, I don't want to I I don't like the pond farms either But that generally has to do with my dislike of the stuff today because it is absolutely

Everywhere the guy who stole my car was reeking of the stuff and when I got in my car it actually went after it was recovered It still had that faint scum No, no I had a driver on for a day with the windows open and the AC blasting full just to get it out. I mean just the guy had spent maybe 35 minutes in my car and it was permeated with weed smoke. And downtown when I worked downtown, which I don't anymore, you would just smell it wafting off people as they want. And it's just, I don't remember it from my youth smelling that bad. As a matter of fact, I remember it having an almost attractive aroma to it, but there's something about modern pop culture and modern pot strength and the

rest of it that I don't think it's a good idea. I really don't. I don't think that you can afford the good stuff back then, James. That's what we're talking about. Yeah, right. Minnesota ditchweed is what we're talking about here. Stuff that they brought up from, you know, the south of the state in black plastic garbage bags. Bushels in it like tumbling. Anyway. Yes, Steve? Now, James, yeah, so since you brought it up briefly,

how was your first, two questions, how was your first week of retirement? You may have talked about it on the diner, which I have not caught up with, but how was your first week of retirement? And secondly, after my dad retired and started working from home, my mother said they should have changed the wedding vows to

for better or for worse, but not for lunch. My dad drove my mother nuts. So how is Mrs. Lilacs adjusting to your new retirement regime? Fine, because I get out of the house. The first week was great. First week seemed to be primarily paperwork because getting your pension and your social security

and all these things requires phones and forms and the rest of it. Because as I said in the podcast, before everything that came to you as part of your employment was just this gravy that naturally flowed from their bucket to yours. The paycheck, the health insurance, all the rest of it. And once that's gone, you have to get it yourself

and claw it in and fix all these things and dot the i's. I ended up calling Social Security on Monday morning, being the first in the queue, and it was expecting two hours of gruesome wait time and then some different bureaucrat who didn't care about my story, the whole Brazil movie thing. And what I got was a kind, pleasant, easy to understand, helpful woman who really wanted me to get my money and really wanted to help. And it was the first experience I'd had with the system and I was impressed with its professionalism. As the generation after you, what is this social security you speak of?

Nothing John, you don't have to think about it, you don't have to worry about it. I'll never see it. Us boomers will just sop it up and then pull the gate, pull the bridge, you don't have to think about it. You don't have to worry about it. I'll never see it. Us boomers will just sop it up and then pull the gate. It pulled the bridge. You know, the drawbridge up with us. So there was that and that was nice. But it's been finding a new gym. It's been doing stuff around the house that I've been putting off.

It's been realizing that I don't have to sort of subject. Well, the funny part is really is that the last thing I did before I left the paper was to file a piece that was the antithesis of the thing that they'd wanted me to write. When they took away my column, the idiots in charge of that said, now we want you to write, but we don't want you to write opinions,

and we don't want you to write humor. So the last thing I did there was to hit send on a piece to the Op-Ed section, and the Op-Ed section, of course, can do whatever it likes. And I sent them a humorous piece with opinion about being carjacked. And they not only published it,

they put my name in the headline, as if to say, hey everybody, that writer you liked, he's right here. And it did boffo business. So that's that, and that was the end of the paper. But I've been writing tons, I've got my sub stack to do, I've got a new video series I'm wrapping up, I've got the bleat, I've been writing tons. I've got my sub stack to do. I've got a new video series. I'm ramping up. I've got the, the bleat. I've got a book that I'm putting together. So yeah,

it's been wonderful. And I've been relieved of the opportunity to go to go downtown and to be frank. I don't miss it a bit. So Lilacs unleashed, Lilacs unleashed. I'll call it. But, and by the way, James, you, you know, I should have known that you would make a fleeting reference to the greatest anti-bureaucratic movie ever made, that being Brazil from 1986.

So I have to tease you. Did you see the director's cut or the theatrical release? I've seen both. Oh my God, I'm gonna shoot myself. I know, that's why I brought it up. I thought I could escape the Three Whiskey Hap Hour and all these crazy references by coming to this podcast No, no Michael Bailen is a friend of mine. And so I think

Well, no, but yes, but we we had dinner together in London Year and a half ago We have mutual friends. Well, so what did you say? John stepped on your line. You say he liked the theatrical or the director's cut? I'm kidding, we never got around to it. I never asked him about his work. I ask him about the stuff, talk about the stuff that other people don't ask about.

And when we did a show, my friend and I, who knows him, did a show in London last summer. He came to the show. And it was a highlight of my life to look out at the audience and see Michael freaking Palin sitting there smiling at our bits and our routines. And he remembered me after we done,

I got to introduce him to my wife and daughter. My daughter was absolutely thrilled. He's about the nicest man on the planet. He really is just a decent guy. I gave him a bag of swag from Minnesota, including spam. I mean, you can't not make a decent guy. I gave him a bag of swag from Minnesota, including spam. I mean, you can't not make a spam reference. So I gave him spam from the source,

from the absolute source and a copy of my book with which he could do as he pleased. Another kind of spam. So yeah, Brazil is a great movie. I think De Niro is miscast in it somewhat, but Jonathan Price apparently had his difficulties. The woman, Kim, no Kim, what was her name? Alastair Kim? She was apparently a pain for everybody,

but she was a great 80s heartthrob with that short hair and that sort of go-to spirit. Great movie, depressing ending. I love Terry Gilliam, He's another Minnesotan and a brilliant man, but that's probably his highlight, I guess. And it's been a while since I've seen it. I'll have to go back and give it another look. Yeah. Well, that'll be it, unless you guys want to talk about a movie or television show that you think the viewership should listen to. If so, you've got about a minute. John, what are you watching?

Oh, I just watched the third final season of Squid Game and I'm about to start. You're the horse. I'm about to start a foundation on Apple TV. I've been, I love this series. I mean, I love the books when they came out. I mean, I wasn't around when they came out, but I read it as a kid. John, have you heard, have you heard anything about that foundation television show?

Yeah, it's bad. Oh, is it? I think so. I mean, it's so different from the books, but I love, I mean, I just like the story. I love the books, and then I watched the first couple of episodes, and I said, I hate everybody involved.

Yeah, I mean, it's a different story, but I'm kinda curious how they changed it or updated it. You know, I think, isn't it's a different story, but I'm kind of curious how they changed it or updated it You know it's I think isn't it directed by the guy who? It's done a lot of superhero movies and and so on it's certainly got that take on it Yeah, and then I'm about to start watching Star Trek You know the the Star Trek series on Paramount Plus. I think that's starting in a week or so be very careful If it's discovery don't watch it if it's strange new worlds. You're absolutely going to love it the Star Trek series on Paramount Plus, because I think that's starting in a week or so. Be very careful. If it's Discovery, don't watch it.

If it's Strange New Worlds, you're absolutely going to love it. Yeah, Strange New Worlds. But I don't get it. We're gonna make a movie about the Foundation books that everybody loves, but it's not gonna be that story. It's like, we're gonna make Lord of the Rings, but it's actually gonna be about a couple of women

traveling around Southwest America in a car. Right? I don't make, it's not that hard. I mean, yes, the first book is episodic from what I understand because Asimov cobbled together various stories. You know, but that's what Raymond Chandler did with his novels. But that's fine. Go episodic.

I don't care. Just give me those stories. Please. But yeah, I understand, I understand. So I didn't watch the second episode of the season of Squid Games, because I just figured that it sort of left the story where it was.

And it was such an appallingly violent show in the first place that I really did not want to go back to that world ever again, period. But then again, I watch Mobland, so what do I know? Steven, you. Yeah, I've been. I have to stop saying I know right now That will confuse him right finally got my last name, right? the only thing I've watched lately because I've been too busy to watch anything is the

Netflix documentary about the ocean gate Titan submersible and The amazing thing there is it's almost an hour and 40 minutes long The amazing thing is is that it's almost an hour and 40 minutes long. The amazing thing is is that Stockton Rush guy was such a megalomaniac that apparently he had either film crew or people with cameras constantly. So you have footage of the whole saga, which now looks very bad, of course, right? And then he interviewed the engineers,

he fired and so forth. So I found that interesting. You knew what the ending was gonna be, but it was still fascinating watching. Otherwise I'd been too busy to take in anything except for John when he appears on Outnumbered on Fox where this week he outdid himself by engaging in fat shaming. So I'll just leave it at that. I didn't even know that fat shaming was a thing. I thought you were supposed to make fun of the fat kid in class. Like what? When did that rule change? I still do it when I

teach. I was the fat kid in class. What did you do? What did you say? Oh, so the, you know, this outnumbered show, you know, you're the guy in the middle. There's four women, four women, how Fox hosts on the couch with you. And half the show is about current events. But then the second half of the show, where I really unprepared, is popular culture and lifestyle. So they said the use of ozempic has gone up amongst children because there's a juvenile, you know, outbreak of juvenile obesity. So they said, what do you think? And I said, I know a secret, you know, recipe for weight

loss. It's called sports. And I said, just get the fag kid out there, make him play sports every day. That's what I had to do growing up. I went to a school, I had to play sports every single day. I hated it, because as a good Asian kid, I just wanted to go back for preparing for the exams, but they wouldn't let me. Well, I learned these sports and I'm glad I did. I was forced to, and I still play some of those sports today,

but then we don't need no eczema. Just get the kid, kick the kid in the butt and make him go play sports that's incredibly Steve immediately says I'm shaming fat kids right because he's so sensitive to the plight of the weak and underserved community let me make this then a promo a John moves promo for the diner which discusses the trials and tribulations and humiliations of being the fat kid in junior high in gym class, which I was. More grade school, but the last guy to be struck in battle ball, the last

guy to stagger across the finish line of the sixth grade. But it worked, James, because now you're in great shape because of humiliation propelled you to physical fitness. That's precisely it. That's exactly why. Because I was shamed and I was ashamed of myself and I was determined not to be that kid, thinking someday it'll be the 50th high school reunion and I'll come back and I'll walk in fit and all of the old jocks will be dead or have a big, you know, or be out of shape.

So yeah. And tell me, wasn't that satisfying? Did that make you warm and fuzzy inside? I haven't hit it yet, but yet. I'm not 50th anniversary, I think that's next year. Oh, God, I'm old. Anyway, with that cheerful note, we would like to thank Bank On Yourself. Go there and find out exactly what they're talking about for these investments and these opportunities for you. Support us also by becoming a best part of the best place for civil and

center-right conversation. That would be ricochet. And and am I gonna ask you to do a five-star review on Apple podcasts or am I not I don't know it's Schrodinger's end of the show thing this week so just leave it at that thank you John it's been a pleasure Stephen always good to hear from you next week John hope you're back you know it's because it's always available you know I've been waiting and waiting to get called back from the Bush leagues to play in MLB. It's in the show, the show. I finally made the show again.

And we're happy to have you here. So we'll see everybody next week and we'll see you possibly tonight in the comments on Ricochet 4.0. Bye bye.