The Ricochet Podcast - Number 300 with Sajak and Shearer

Episode Date: April 15, 2016

A little more than 6 years ago on a rainy day in the back room of a bungalow in Venice, California, we recorded the first Ricochet Podcast on an old school MacBook. The cast has changed slightly since then, but through one and a half Presidential cycles, two mid-terms, countless culture wars, good guests, bad guests, Skype glitches, and even bad weather, we have persevered. So it’s with great... Source

Can I raise a practical question at this point? Yeah. Are we going to do Stonehenge tomorrow? No, we're not going to f***ing do Stonehenge. Hello, everyone. Cornel Curl Cabinet. I'm not going to get... I don't know what's going to happen here. I don't have any information on that.

They don't understand what you're talking about. And that's going to prove to be disastrous. But what it means is that the people don't want socialism. They want more conservatism. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall. It's the Ricochet Podcast with Peter Robinson and Rob Long. I'm James Lilacs, and today, Pat Sajak, Harry Shearer, podcast number 300. Stretching back almost until the mists of history, the dawn of time, Ricochet has been here

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slash Ricochet. I'm sorry, I'm just so... You're excited. You're excited. I'm thrilled by I'm just so I'm just, you're excited. You're excited. I'm thrilled by the fact that this is number 300 and Rob is here and, uh, and Harry Shearer will be along and Pat Sajak. But first we always have to do the, uh, the thing where Rob asks for support and, oh, this is death. This is always death. Um, I, uh, thank you, James, for that – the setup, its death. Look, we've been doing this 300 times. It's a Krusty the Clown bit, right? It was a good one.

It was a good one. Probably apropos for today. We've been doing 300 of these. That's one a week pretty much week in, week out for six years, seven years. If you've been listening and you've been putting off joining Ricochet to help pay for this, please do. Your membership to Ricochet, even if you don't want to join the great conversations and the civil discussions and the fantastic meetups and the books and all that other stuff, even if you have no interest in that, please join to support these podcasts, not just this one but all the the ones, Law Talk and Free Martini Lunch.

Mona and Jay's is called Need to Know, although I always call it Mona and Jay. There's a bunch of great podcasts. You got to check them out. Keep going. They're all for you. Keep going. Keep going with those podcasts. Of course, our own James Lilacs.

Yours is kind of new, right? And it's called? It's just James' podcast to me. Of course, our own James Lilacs. Yours is kind of new, right? And it's called? It's just James' podcast to me. I know they have titles. It's Jay and Mona and then James. Not one penny of your Ricochet money goes for Rob's memory enhancement. That's true. I'm sorry.

I just refer to it as the James podcast. What's it called? It's called The Ramble. The Ramble. That's what it's called, The Ramble. Much like this little segment here at the beginning where nothing's planned. People think sometimes that your podcasts are scripted out. That would be silly.

That would be ridiculous. You would lose all the spontaneity of it. Right. And when you started this whole thing, I mean I didn't join until – I don't know what episode I actually came in on. But you and Peter decided this was going to be an integral part of Ricochet. How did that work? What was the – Well, I'll tell you why.

We wanted to reach as many people as we could as quickly as we could, and we wanted them to be the kind of people who were maybe looking for an alternative to talk radio or a compliment to talk radio, but who sort of understood the basic premise of Ricochet, which is that Peter and I disagree on a lot of politics, but we're friends, and we're friendly to each other, and we are civil. And we kind of felt like that was what was missing on the web, and that's certainly what was missing at the time. We thought it was missing on the side of the right, that the right could sort of explode into sort of intra-right-wing incivility. Of course, at that time, we had no idea what was to come or how important Ricochet would be. So that was really the start.

The idea is get people to listen and then get people who listened and wanted to participate to join Ricochet. So I will say, just to double back, if you're listening and you're listening and you're not paying, please, please, all I can do is ask you. Put it on your list of to-dos. Do it now. Ricochet.com. Get a free month so it's no risk to you, but it is a huge, huge, huge help to us. You have no idea. One membership to us is worth a lot more than just the money you're paying for it.

It is an indication that we're on the right track. It's an ability for us to go and to our investors and say, hey, listen, this product is something that people really like. It's really valuable. So please do join. Yes, the old days when civility and incivility did not mean death threats from people on your own side, supposedly so. Changed a lot in a few years since podcast number one.

But one of the things that's been constant almost throughout the entire 300 is Peter Robinson, who fixed his internet, and now he's here. Peter. Hello. Hi, Peter. Oh, my goodness. This is number 300. Yes, I know. Oh, is there a strong implication that since I've had 299 times to get it right, by now I ought to have figured it out?

No, you're interpreting what I said. But it's number 300. Are you complaining, Peter? Are you complaining, Peter? Are you complaining? I am complaining about life. Somehow or other. Peter Robinson, tear down this wall.

That's all I have to say. Be of good cheer. This is 300. This is a great, momentous event. It is. It is. It is. Can I just ask? You have good cheer. This is 300. This is a great momentous event, right? It is. It is. It is. Can I just ask you a question, technical question of you, James?

If you leave your computer on overnight, specifically so that there will be no trouble booting up in the morning, does the memory sometimes, are there little mutations that screw it up by the time you're ready to use it? In other words, do you really need to turn a computer off and then back on every 24 hours? There's a lot of questions in there, and the answer is no, you don't. I don't. I leave mine on all the time. What happens sometimes if you've got – if you have some programs running, they can just – they can blow it up on you.

And periodically, it's – you have a Mac, right? Yes, yes. Okay. Well, the Mac's memory is pretty automated. You don't need to go in and manually purge, but some people like to do so. Don't a Mac, right? Yes, yes. Okay, well, the Mac's memory is pretty automated. You don't need to go in and manually purge, but some people like to do so. Don't use a harsh purgative, Peter. We don't want that. But generally, just quit your programs, and if things really get sluggish, then restart.

But I never turn mine off. Really? Okay. And it runs sleek and smooth. So, gentlemen, we've just guaranteed that on our 300th podcast, after an incredible panoply of guests, after a raft of discussions and arguments and really detailed, smart people talking about detailed, smart stuff, we've guaranteed that the entire comment thread on number 300 is going to be about computer memory management.

And the Linux gates are going to be about computer memory management. And the Linux. That is why Ricochet is awesome. Well, it is. And if you want to learn a little bit more about that, well, you might want to go to thegreatcourses.com because they've got courses on just about everything. And I wouldn't be surprised if the history of computational memory management is back there. You know, James. Yes. In honor of the 300th podcast. You're just going to leave that one be.

I'm not even going to interrupt that segue. Well, you just kind of there. You did, but you didn't. It's a very conceptual. You see, I'm good. Conceptual interruption there. Hey, at The Great Courses' new video learning service, The Great Courses Plus, you can learn about anything and everything with unlimited access to The Great Courses lecture series on thousands of topics taught by top professors. Now, we want you to try this.

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Not only if you go to thegreatcoursesplus.com slash ricochet. Get started today. That's thegreatcoursesplus.com slash ricochet. And so I think we have some people we want to talk to. Is that it? Some guys? Do we want to argue the minutia of politics today and have this podcast be as ephemeral as yesterday's newspaper? Or do we want to actually sit down with some folks who –

Let's do it. Yeah. Well, do I have to introduce these people? I mean we really have two people here in the category of it goes without saying it needs no introduction. But, okay. Well, we have two people who are old friends of the podcast, who have been on the podcast a bunch of times. And Pat Sajak, who was actually on the 200th podcast we did. We did it live in L.A.

That's right. That's right. Where we did. That was two years ago. Oh, 2014. Remember that? The optimism in the air, like the smell of blooming lotus. Remember that?

The year to come, we were going to win back the House and the Senate. Things were going to be done. The country was going to start to turn around. Deep bench. Deep bench. Oh, yeah. Okay. Hello.

Hello. That would be Harry. Yes, it. Okay. Hello. Hello. That would be Harry. Yes, it is Harry. Well, we were just not introducing everybody because you all go to that same. And everybody knows who you are. And if they don't, then they're deficient in basic American pop culture and be gone with them. But you're talking about your target audience, aren't you? We're trying.

Well, you'd be surprised. You'd be surprised. You'd be surprised. Let me ask you a question that may go back to our target audience since one of them actually has his avatar, Jack Webb. I was listening to a Dragnet the other day, the original Dragnet. It's not the TV. Jack Webb used to be the coolest man in the world. And then he became the squarest man in the world. How did that happen? Was that a good thing?

It was like that. Well, you know, ask Rob. I was never the hippest man in the world. How did that happen? Was that a good thing? Like that? Well, you know, ask Rob. I was never the hippest man in the world. He's lived that. No, I mean, it's, you know, there's nothing more evanescent than cool. You know, it's, uh, of all the things to aspire to, that's the one that, you know, can blow away like a helium filled balloon before you look the other way. Uh, just look at look at, you know, the hats that so-called Brooklyn hipsters are wearing now

and how long are those going to be around, you know? Or the fact that a monocle is now, according to the New York Times, de rigueur in Brooklyn. I mean, either it says something about coolness or it says something about Brooklyn. Or monocles. I am flying to Williamsburg tomorrow to slap one of these people Either it says something about coolness or it says something about Brooklyn. Or monocles. I am flying to Williamsburg tomorrow to slap one of these people with a locally grown mackerel, if such a thing can be found. Well, wait.

We do have a cool person on the line here, an old friend and a fantastic person. He needs no introduction except to say that I've worked with this gentleman. Actually, I've worked with both of you and have been proud to do so. Pat, say, Jack, are you currently right now wearing a monocle? And if so, where are you wearing it? Oddly enough, I am, and around my hip for some reason. And by the way, the only time you hear the word cool or hip associated with me is when it's followed by the word replacement. So that's a little different.

How are you guys? Good. Jack and Andy in front of you. We thought to celebrate, first of all, to take a break from what seems to be unrelentingly bad news on the political front, although I suspect Harry Shearer is wringing his hands in glee. Rob Long is a disaster. Peter Robby – I don't even know Peter Robin's name. Forget about Nielsen numbers.

This podcast has so few listeners, they have to give numbers back to Nielsen. Please welcome. That's pretty good. That's pretty good. A little high-pitched, though. You're working on it, right? Yeah, I know. Or maybe it's just the Skype. Yeah. Yeah. I's pretty good. That's pretty good. A little high-pitched though. You're working on it, right? Yeah, I know. Or maybe it's just the Skype.

Yeah. Yeah. I blame the Skype. You blame the Skype. We thought we'd talk because podcasts, everyone says, is the new radio, right? And we've actually said to our investors and our sort of public is that we feel like there's a talk radio or radio, AM radio anyway, is going down. And this is a great way to disrupt it. We want to disrupt talk radio and have these podcasts be the replacement.

You know who's disrupting talk radio faster than anybody else? Cumulus. Cumulus. People who destroyed two of the major talk radio stations in the country, KABC and KGO in San Francisco. You think it's corporate, Harry? You don't think it's just the fact that people like to shift? Well, I think there – look, I think two things happened. Bill Clinton signed into law a deregulation of broadcasting, which made it possible for – it basically removed all the ownership restrictions on how many stations one company or person could own.

Efficiencies of scale followed, which meant ultimately getting rid of local – at the same time, NAB is running promos saying tell Washington local broadcasting is important. The broadcasting industry is – the radio broadcasting industry is so heavily syndicated that if there were a local disaster in your town, they'd have to wait for it to come over on the syndicated program because there's nobody left. Not in this market. Not in this market. Not in most markets. WCCO has got – they've got live programming all day locally.

And they've got a newsroom. It's strange to walk into – you walk into these office buildings now and you walk down the hall and there are 15 radio stations all allegedly competing against each other, all in the same building, all paid by the same people. And what's interesting, I heard the heads of one of these conglomerates giving a speech about a particular market. I think they owned eight stations in the market. And the point of his speech was that in a perfect world for him, every one of his stations would have the same rating. In other words, that allows him to charge the same inflated rates. The worst thing that could happen to him is for one of his stations to succeed because that tamps down the amount of money he can charge

for advertising the other station. So that's where we are. It's a strange world. I feel badly for the men and women who work in radio who grew up in a time when you were – you wanted to thump the opposition. And now when you have your boss saying, don't do any better than the other guy, it's a very strange time. Well, when your opposition is across the glass from you in the next two weeks. Yeah. It's the guy who like you in the next week. Yeah, it's the guy who like you, you trade the salad dressing with. Exactly. Hey, Pat, you started in radio, didn't you? I did. And it was a it was a different time. You know, it's strange. I

actually, I guess, in a sense, I'm going against the flow because I own a little AM radio station in Annapolis. And Annapolis is a strange market. It's between Washington and Baltimore and doesn't get served very well. And it's a small AM station and we have a small staff, but we actually have a news staff. And we have – I lose my shirt on it, but we have people who go out and cover local stories. And if there is a problem in Annapolis, a storm or whatever it is, you can actually tune and find out what's going on. But that's the exception now. It is – there's very little local radio left.

I mean what we used to think of as local. What are the call letters of the station? I don't know. I haven't been there in a good while. This is ridiculous. It's WNAV as in Navy. We carry the Navy sporting offensive. Yeah, there you go.

There you go. Tell your name. Pat, would that market be the Washamore market? That would be the Washamore. That's right. Or the Ballington. Yeah. Bosnian Bosnian.

But Harry, you are also sort of an archivist in a lot of ways. Oh my god. You know what I mean? Like you've got all that stuff on your – you've got incredible memory. I've got files. You've got files. That means you're old and saved stuff. Yeah.

Which is true. That is true. That is a fair description. What do you miss the most about radio? Well, I miss the uniqueness of voices that could be nourished in an environment where you didn't have to worry about syndicating them to 400 stations to survive. You know, Phil Hendry is a great example. A huge radio talent who did a fantastic job of satirizing.A., than when he started into the syndication business. And, you know, I remember hearing voices from San Francisco. You could pick up KGO when I was a kid listening to radio that were totally unlike the voices on radio in LA. They had local, if you call it pandering, but they had local identity and local character. The guys who were on WWL in New Orleans,

which really was on the syndication train until after the flood, and then they realized this is not serving the community and tossed all the syndication stuff off and have gone really local. And you turn on that station and you're hearing New Orleans voices that, that, that sense of, you know, where you are when you turn on the radio, that's not true in a lot of places anymore. Well,

let's drop this question. The, um, the, the one place where you could probably find interesting imaginative radio for a long time was public radio. And around here, I would, it's on Sunday nights. I would listen to, uh, they had shows of old jazz. imaginative radio for a long time was public radio and around here i would on sunday nights

i would listen to uh they had shows of old jazz they had old classic radio shows and they had a guy named joe frank who would do these these incredible amazing astonishing shows one voice shows that uh like henry he would satire the genre and the people but it was it's indescribable stuff and it would never work commercially ever because you'd have to cut it up for spots. Also, it's darker than your darkest nightmares. Oh, yes. Very much so. A lot of joke stuff, yeah.

So now public radio is saying our audience is graying. It's getting old. We should be going after 28-year-old professional females, but they're not listening to us. They're having an internal discussion about whether or not they even want to promote their own podcasts. And then there's a whole question on the right as to whether or not these people deserve our money at all. Do we have an obligation as a society and a culture to spend money, public money, to ensure that a certain medium, which seems to be dying on its own, maintains, stays around, and produces quality culture. I'll throw that out there. Pat?

No. Okay. Do we have an obligation? I don't know. Harry, do we have an obligation to do that? I'm just framing it in a, you know, outre fashion. Yeah. Well, you know, I don't think that the majority of NPR's money comes from taxpayers through CPB at this point in time.

To me, that's not a feature. That's a bug. That has made NPR increasingly just sort of watered down commercial radio. I'm privy to some of those conversations even though I have no – zero connection with and less affection for NPR as an institution. I can go chapter and verse on that. But when they have become so format-oriented, I don't know if you saw. I follow this trade magazine that covers public broadcasting. Two years of discussion.

Wait, wait, wait, wait. We all did that. We're not blown by that. You read a trade publication that covers public broadcasting as if there's news. Rob, I read it for the pictures. Okay, I got it. Go ahead. Sorry. And there were two years of discussions about the new clock for morning edition and all different clock. That is to say a format clock for the two major news magazines that they produce every day. And these discussions were endless negotiations between the network and the local stations because they want to break in. And so you had what was at one time at the dawn of this institution, news magazines, which could put on stories that stayed the length that was needed to tell the story,

now being shoehorned into the same kinds of little four-minute and six-minute increments that, shall we say, commercial radio reserves for programming segments before the commercial pods. When the Car Talk guys announced their, in certain quarters, very welcome retirement, NPR's program development department went overtime with shows, what new shows about, three guys talking about science, two guys talking about this, two girls talking about that. They're format crazy. You've seen stations which were very eclectic in their programming, different parts of the broadcast day, now hewing to the demands of consultants that they sound the same at 8 in the morning and 8 p.m., which is very much like the format craziness that enveloped commercial radio. So I think they're less and less an alternative, and certainly I don't think there's an

obligation to support something that's getting more like – whose death rattle is sounding very familiar to the – very similar to the death rattle. Okay. But then isn't this great – isn't this good news for those of us who do podcasts because i don't have to ask you know peter and i when we started this podcast we just started it we didn't ask permission sometimes it goes an hour sometimes it goes a little less we get to have whatever guests we want on we get to talk about stuff we get to we get to choose in the middle of a primary week which i mean now that i'm thinking about it was maybe stupid um in new york in new York, we would rather talk to –

Rob, you are stupid. I am stupid, yeah. I'm a dummy. Sad. You're a disaster and you're stupid. Sad. Go ahead. Sad.

We decided to take a little break from that and to spend an hour talking to friends of ours about radio, radio history and where it's going to go because everybody listening to this podcast is essentially listening to audio content, to use that horrible phrase that people like, and audio content is pretty indistinguishable from radio except that we don't do the news and we don't cover your local, we don't cover the Ballington or the Washamore area the way Pat does. So Pat, I'm assuming you have somebody running that station. Would you ever turn it on? Hey, come on, come on guys. Let's spice it up a little bit.

No, before we move on, I want to, I just want to ask Harry if he, if he could rip out one of those subscription cards from that magazine and get it to me. I'll email you the link. I appreciate that. What was the question. No, you know, we're filling a niche that – you know, radio and television, there's sort of a quaint phrase, public service. It was supposed – there was supposed to be an element of that. I mean this is – these are public airwaves and that was supposed to be part of the deal. You're granted a license and one of the things you have to do is serve you know, these are public airwaves and that was supposed to be part of the deal. You're granted a license.

And one of the things you have to do is is serve your audience, whatever that means. And and, you know, I'm a child of that generation. And foolishly, perhaps my accountant keeps telling me, I think we still have that obligation. So, I mean, the idea that we're going to compete with with all these shows we've been referencing, been referencing, these syndicated shows and these local shows that sound syndicated, is silly. We don't even try to do that. I mean we're – we're what used to be known as sort of a general service radio. I mean you'd turn in – you'd hear talk part of the day. There'd be music part of the day.

There'd be someone – there would be news going on. There would be – we'd do some sports. It is – it's not format heavy and that's obviously going against the tide. Fellows, Peter here. I have three kids in their 20s and two kids in their teens. None of them listens to radio ever, ever. It's all done. All five of them, when they work out, when they go to the car, all five of them listen to podcasts on their phones. And the podcasts range from one son who's trying to get fit for this, that, or the other tennis

purpose. There are podcasts you listen to as you work out that talk about nutrition and talk about your tennis swing. I mean, the niches are so tiny. And yet, and by the way, this is nothing that we talk about. I just observe it. They didn't make any decision not to listen to radio. As I was mentioning to Scott and Rob and James last week, I also noticed that among my children, the distinction between television and movies has simply been eliminated. They pop open their laptop. That's the screen that they watch pictures on, call it a movie,

call it a television. It's totally irrelevant to them. And when they're listening, they're listening to something that some young person has just started the, the podcast. So many of them, such small niches. I can just tell you, you and I, we all still care about whether NPR, I really do still think it's outrageous that NPR collects taxpayer dollars. And yet when they really need money, they put on the three tenors, one of whom has been

dead for five years. That's PBS. That's PBS. Okay. Same. Wow. There, see? Same sort of thing. I dead for five years. That's PBS. That's PBS. Okay. Same. Well, there. See? Same sort of thing.

I want to do a follow-up question. Yeah, go, go, go. In your kids' minds, Rob Long is a movie mogul? Yes. Yes, that's exactly right. No, a polymath genius. That's what he says on my card. Peter, you're right.

There are no distinctions in their minds. Try to explain to a young person, try to explain broadcast television as opposed to cable. Why are there different rules for this channel on their cables, even if they have DirecTV?

Why is there a different set of rules for this channel than the next one? They're just places on the dial. They don't mean anything. None of those phrases mean anything. Cable doesn't mean anything. Satellite doesn't mean anything. And is this a bad thing?

I don't think so. I mean, we may miss a moment where everybody had three stations, maybe four, and around the water cooler the next day, you could say, juicy laughing. I love that Goldie Hawn. So that day is gone. We don't have that common culture anymore. What we do have, not just niches, but this explosion of opportunities to be satisfied in particular by what you want. Peter,

my daughter doesn't listen to podcasts. She listens to YouTube. She listens to Spotify. That's where she gets her music. When I cook dinner, I'm listening to this 110 part series on the history of Byzantium started by some TV guy in Britain who was inspired by the History of Rome podcast. And I'm chewing my way through that. And it's great to learn all of these things.

All of these are opportunities. Have you heard episode 67, by the way? That was cool. That's the one where the Greek fire was first used against the Islamic invaders. Oh, no. Spoiler alert. Yeah, I shouldn't really. But if you want to know more about the history of Byzantium, there's got to be a book at Audible where you can go.

And you can get it for free. That's right. A free 30-day trial membership and a free audiobook. Just go to audible.com slash ricochet and browse over 100. Did you just go native on us? Yes. I did. I had to do that.

Watch that. Harry, have you seen a Segway that good? Have you heard one that good? This guy does Segways like make your head spin. Make your head spin. I got whiplash. I got whiplash. See, here's the thing.

Harry, Pat, you guys. I'm just drinking my Starbucks Makaloto right now, which is by the way on sale this weekend. No, sorry. Go ahead. You guys, everybody in radio knows what it's like to go to the ads, right? Just to lean back, turn the mic off, and the producer starts slamming cards, and that's it. I've just put you in the position of all the listeners who have to endure everything that you did while you were having your nails buffed by your attendance or getting your makeup done up like that. I have to be Harlow Wilcox in the show, and I'm happy to be so.

Harlow Wilcox. Wow, that's good. In answer to what you said, yes, we live in a wonderful on-demand world, and the homogenization that we had to put up with in the era of broadcasting is mercifully perhaps at an end. I do worry living in both an earthquake-prone area and a hurricane-prone area. You're not going to get emergency information on your podcast. You're not going to get it on your cell phone because the first thing that goes out is the electricity, and it's followed quickly by the cell towers. And without a radio service that you can pick up on a battery-powered radio or without access to a landline which gets its electricity from the phone company, not from the electric company, through the line, I worry a little bit about a moment where people are going to go, hey, nobody told us that this was going to happen.

When I was a disc jockey, as many of us – as you were as well, we did the emergency broadcast test every year. And what I would say was this had been – I had the copy in front of me. This had been a test of the emergency broadcast system. Had this been an actual alert, I would not be here talking to you. I always said that. You'd be out of here. I'd be gone. See you, losers.

I had the – speaking of radio thrills, I had the radio thrill when I was a little kid. You'd hear those emergency or what they used to call Conrad tests. Right, 1240. 640, 1240. I once heard, they only did it once, where they actually did not just the announcement and the tones and the going off the air, but they did a fake Conrad broadcast, what you would actually hear. Wait a minute, wait.

Are you sure that wasn't television? Because I remember that from childhood. They got the wrong code, and the code was something like Buster Man, and the guy's voice, trying to hold it together, read the real thing. This was on radio, and I remember it because what you heard was something that's very, very much like the cellular telephone system of today. That emergency watch system, I think it's the same one.

All stations operating on the same frequency, they changed which transmitter was operating about every 10 seconds so that it would be harder to target communication facilities. And I heard this. It was prerecorded. It was a newscaster who was at the time very prominent in Los Angeles. And you'd hear each transmitter going on and off as this prerecorded broadcast, and it wasn't an accident. It was a test. But it was the one time that you got to hear, okay, this is what it's going to be like the minute before I'm toast. Yeah, but isn't that what people say? I mean isn't that their response is that – to the emergency stuff is that, well, you've got to get on your cell phone now. It's all because of your cell phone. But you're not.

I've done that. Anybody who's lived through an emergency knows that. I mean the first thing that went down in New Orleans was cell service at the time of the flood before – well, right after electricity went out. Boys, Peter here. Yeah. is voices. Even to my kids, it matters a lot whether the voice is, and then fill in your list of imponderables, engaging, warm, friendly, lovely timbre. So let me ask you this, Harry, you got started in radio at the age of nine or 10? Seven. Seven. How did that happen? How did somebody say, Ooh, this kid's voice is really interesting? It wasn't looks.

It wasn't tap dancing. You had to have a seven-year-old's voice. It was definitely not looks. I think we can say that for sure. Rob, this is – Well, it's radio. It's radio. That's all I meant.

My balls dropped really early, Peter, really, really early. No, I was very fortunate. I had a piano teacher who decided to quit teaching piano. Her daughter was an actress, so she had connections in the business, and she became a children's agent. And I don't know what possessed her. Maybe she said this to all of her piano students, but she said to my parents, can I try to get Harriet a job? And they were immigrants from Eastern Europe. They sounded like news from the moon. They said, sure. to get harry a job and you know they were immigrants from eastern europe they had sounded

like you know news from the moon they said sure and seven months later she called with an audition for the jack benny show what got me the job was that i was a very good reader and could just be handed a script and read it right away i see allow i see i see and and and isn't it odd today that some of the public radio voices not to go go back to that subject, don't seem to be classic radio voices. Oh, very anti-radio voices. Nasally New York. I've made a living on my radio show of making fun of public radio voices for many years. They hate the sound of professionalism.

That's one of the things that disturbs me about public radio in America. In Britain, where I'm sitting right now, the BBC, which has a lot of critics, all sides, all the time, has a great tradition of getting people with all kinds of timbres in their voices, teaching them to speak presentably in a professional manner that isn't grating or answering. They've changed that. The BBC, to be fair, they've professional manner that isn't grading or, you know. Right. Oh, they've changed that. The BBC, to be fair, they've loosened that up.

It used to be that you could watch BBC or listen to BBC radio, and there were no differences in the accents. Oh, they have written accents now. But that's a big change. That's the last decade they've allowed. It used to be all the same standard. But now when I listen to it, I hear at the top of the hour, she'll say, this is the BBC World Sarvis.

Sarvis. Sarvis. Sarvis. I love it. She's a pirate. Pirate radio. You haven't heard Neil Nunez yet on the BBC.

One of the things I miss about the American TV, though, is there seems to be flattening out. So, Pat, my question you i mean you probably interact with more americans from different places than anybody certainly on this podcast do you do can you tell i mean do people still show up at at wheel of fortune with their you know they're incredibly regional accents or are we all kind of blending no we're not i mean certainly broadcasting is,

and that's, that's been going on for a long time. I remember being in, in working in Nashville in, in the seventies and, and, and there were, when they would hire people, they didn't want, they didn't really want a Southern accent. You know, you had to sound as if you were from nowhere, somewhere in the Midwest, I don't know, as if, you know, to have a Southern accent in Nashville was a bad thing. But as far as, you know, to have a southern accent in Nashville was a bad thing. But as far as, you know, I think one of the things that works for our show, and Peter, you're talking about voices, and, you know, we do make a concerted effort to bring in people from everywhere. I mean, not just sexually and ethnically, and, and, and ethnically, but,

but in terms of sounds and, and, and accents, we go everywhere. We send our, our staff goes out and actively looking for people. And so, you know, there, there was this thing, even with game shows where everyone looked as if they had just stepped off the beaches of Southern California. And we, you know, we have, and I mean, this in the best sense of the word, the most regular folks you can find. I mean, they're from all parts of the country. They're, they speak in all kinds of different ways. Frequently, I'll be brief before a show saying, be careful with player number two, because, you know, she has this particular accent and one letter might sound like a different one. So we don't. And, you know, the people of America still tend to – I mean with more mobility, there's probably more homogenization I guess. But if you go down to Mississippi, you're going to find people who sound as if they're in Mississippi and God bless them. I've noticed one degree of homogeneity on your show.

Yes. They all yell. You know, they do. And I know they're wearing microphones. But do they? Do they know they're wearing microphones? I'm not sure. Do you know what microphones are?

My eardrums were blown out about five years ago, so I have no idea what they're saying. You know, I don't know. In seriousness, I don't know where that came from. And one of the things you want to do, you want to encourage, you want to encourage a bit of liveliness because you don't want people going, eh, is it an A? So you – the contestant people keep saying to them, speak up and be this and be that. And sometimes they take it a little – and plus you have an audience. They're applauding and screaming and they're trying to talk over it. But I do hear

that a lot from people. Why are they yelling? They're wearing microphones. I don't know. Why do we have a big clunky wheel going around? It makes no sense. Let's not start opening the hood on this. And just to be entirely topical about it, you're not taping

in New York as the Democratic debate was last night where the hosts the the debaters and the audience were all yelling at the top of their lungs which i interpret as new york values by the way why why are why are new yorkers are very sensitive people i mean you would think you know they have this this idea that they're tough and you know can take it but boy you i mean they just got all bent out of shape on that. But I mentioned Mississippi. I mean the south is constantly being reviled as this and that and people are being put down as this and that.

I don't hear this sort of – this outcry against it. The New Yorkers are very upset about things like that, very sensitive people. Back to the accents, Rob. If you think that – this been uh the fear since uh network radio first started it was going to lead to the homogenization of american accents uh go down to new orleans if you want to get a reflection oh yeah on how how deep and thick a regional accent still can be what what i find strange is that sitting here in london right now uh which is with, you know, a city with a dozen different regional accents, let alone this country, British actors and Brits generally tend to be really good at a lot of the regional accents in their country. The only thing I was really disappointed about with Spotlight this year was so few people really either tried or accomplished a good Boston accent. I don't think American actors are nearly as adept at it, and I don't know why.

You're right. Did you ever see the movie The Departed? No. It's a Scorsese picture set in Boston, I don't know, five, six, eight years ago, whatever it was. And it was like it was all set in Boston, I don't know, five, six, eight years ago, whatever it was. And it was like it was all set in Boston. And you had Martin Sheen and Alec Baldwin and Leonardo DiCaprio. And then you had Mark Wahlberg and Matt Damon. And so only Mark Wahlberg and Matt Damon knew how to do the accent and were doing it right.

And everyone else was sort of sounding a little bit like, you know, fog horny JFK. We are going to take a ship to the moon and back. And like, it was really weird. And like, if you, I, you know, I lived there for a long time and I know those accents and I know the difference between somebody from Boston and somebody from Lynn or Swampskate or Bevel. Or Southie. Or Southie, yeah.

And it was like, there's this kind of, well, you know, people just say pack the cat have the ad yeah so you get uh martin sheen basically doing his jfk from the missiles of october or whatever it was i'm always interested in um when when british actors do american accents uh it's always fake yeah and and and what are they true what do they watch the wire though that guy's british you at Walking Dead, the guy who I believe the main actor of Walking Dead is a Brit. Hey, Lieutenant Gerard from The Fugitive was it was it was British. Barry Morris, you know.

So, yeah. And I wonder what's a good contemporary reference, by the way. Yeah. Thank you very much. I'm going to connect with the kids on that one. Well, you can pat yourself on the back with one hand. Speaking of contemporary references, speaking of contemporary references speaking of contemporary references may i just be a fan here and ask the two of you about a couple people each of you knew and i don't even really know how to ask this question in any more

sophisticated way than this were they as good as they now seem to us Were they really that talented? Harry, Mel Blanc, and Jack Benny. Absolutely. In both cases, uh, Jack Benny was, um, by far the, um, among the smartest people I've ever met in show business, uh, with regard to comedy, with regard to a lot of other things, with regard to his craft, um, and, regard to his craft and understood timing, understood talent, understood the way to make a show, to surround him. You know, we're talking about NPR's attitude toward professionalism. Benny was at the opposite end. He surrounded himself with ultimate professionals among whom was of course, Mel

blank. Um, Mel, I knew a little bit because he was on the Benny show at the same time I was. And, uh, there just was this calm professionalism about the way both of them went about. I don't mean common any sense other than, you know, on, on frantic and on shrieky, uh, about the way they went around there about their work. Rob, uh, uh,

worked on the last, uh, sitcom done by Bob Newhart. And I think I said to Rob at the time that nobody reminded me of, of Benny's approach, uh, as much since then as, as Newhart.

Yeah. Utterly professional. Uh, and just, you know, let's, let's not enact grand opera here. We're doing comedy. We know how to do it. Let's do it and get out of here. But his comedy, you know, let's not enact grand opera here. We're doing comedy.

We know how to do it. Let's do it and get out of here. But his comedy, I listen to a lot of the many shows on the classic radio station, and it holds up so well. Oh, it does hold up. It is so – I mean a lot of comedy from that era does not. It was just a different time. It was so cutting edge and it was so far ahead of its time, it seemed to me, that it's still – I'm driving down the road laughing like crazy. It's very funny stuff. And for both of you on Jack Benny in particular, I want to get to a couple of people Pat knew in a moment.

But for both of you on Jack Benny because you're both professionals in both media, to, it's a puzzle. Benny made his career in radio. Along comes television and the Jack Benny show. And right from the get go, you don't even see as you look at the old shows, you don't even see him working it out. He's got it all right from the get go. There's one sight gag after another. It was somehow as if he knew he knew how to do television before television existed. How did that happen? Well, I think one of the ways is that they were fairly expert at doing side gags on the radio. With sound effects, Mel Blanc did this wonderful sound of Jack Benny's old car, for example. And they knew how to use your imagination to do

side gags before you could see them. So I don't think I think in that way, it was an easier transition than one might imagine. I just I'm just remembering shows that I was on, where there were things that that were in effect radio side gags, and that they could just translate that. But, you know, as I say, he was incredibly smart when it came to his craft. And I think he saw that coming. And and and it wasn't a you know, I think it was an easier adjustment for him in a way than it was for Bob Hope, who was such a verbal comedian. reactions, that just belonged on television. I mean, the pauses on radio were great, but to see his visual reactions was a whole new treat. And that was a natural. The jokes were so brilliantly silly. There was an episode that happened after, apparently there had actually been an earthquake in LA after they aired the one show and then they're getting ready for, they're doing the next show and they're referring to the earthquake in LA and they're doing one show, and then they're getting ready for, they're doing the next show, and they're referring to the earthquake in LA, and they're doing a lot

of jokes about it. And Dennis Day, the male bimbo, was saying, gee, Mr. Benny, I was getting, my mother was giving me a haircut when the earthquake hit, and it was so bad, she cut off one of my ears. And Benny says, Dennis, don't be silly. You have two ears. And he goes, yeah, now. You're right. It's one of the few shows that still works. And so much comedy is perishable, and you listen to it now, and it's cor's corny and it's old and maybe one out of three works but the Benny.

And partly because perhaps it was so strangely meta in its construction. It's a radio show about people who did a radio show but it wasn't the radio show. Right. It was something I think that influenced the late great Gary Shandling. Exactly. You know, it led to that. His dear friend George Burns, of course, did a show even more like that on television,

the Burns and Allen Show, where they'd be doing a sitcom and George would excuse himself, go upstairs to the den, be watching the scene you've just seen on the sitcom, and turn it off to do a monologue. And I'm thinking the reaction at he when they first saw the pilot you can't show yourself turning your own show off dials down how big were the how big were the writers rooms in those days how big a

writing staff did benny and burns have four on the ben show. I don't know how many on the Burns and Allen show, but they had four. Wow. And how big was the staff on Cheers, say? Or on The Simpsons? How big is the staff? I understand they keep two writing rooms going at all times on The Simpsons. 16 or 17 on The Simpsons. We'd have about nine on Cheers, but we'd have consultants come in. We'd have people

who were remembered. They're not as far back as the Benny show with people who worked for jack parr which brings me to pat and jack parr pat knew jack parr well and he knew if i recall correctly he knew lucille ball more than slightly not terribly well but more than slightly pat same question to you were jack parr and lucille ball really that good well i i didn't know lucille Ball very well. We'd run across each other a couple of times and she was very complimentary and said some very nice things that I will take to my grave with me with a smile on my face.

But she was off camera. I mean, if you met when you sat down and talked with her, she was not a funny person. She was not – the room wouldn't be filled with laughter. But she knew exactly how this business worked. She knew exactly how her sitcom worked. She knew how her career should go. She knew what the audience would like. She knew how to react. She knew how to set up a line.

She knew how to deliver a line. She knew how to surround herself with people who could do the same. She was brilliant and from all accounts a brilliant businesswoman as well. I didn't know her well personally. I didn't know Jack until long after he left the air, but he was just one of the sweetest guys who was one of the few to really walk away from enormous success. He was on The Tonight Show for only five years. And then he left it and did a primetime talk show for a couple of years.

And that was about it. And I remember I was doing a late night show. I invited him to come on. I would invite him repeatedly. And he said, and he wasn't trying to be self-effacing. He said, no one remembers me, pal. And he really't trying to be self-effacing. He said, no one remembers me, pal. And he really felt that way. And, of course, he came on and there was a great ovation.

He was wonderful for an hour. And he was rather touched by that and surprised by that. But he, you know, both those people you mentioned, you know, they changed. The great ones changed the medium they're in. You know, Benny did. Is it fair to say that Jack Parr showed something about that medium? Jack Parr proved that television, while remaining totally popular, can be pretty darn smart. It was.

I mean, it was. Look, in retrospect, things often seem much better than they were. I mean I was sitting with Jack at his home once in Connecticut and we're watching – he put on some old tapes and he's doing an interview with Zsa Zsa Gabor, which frankly went a little too long and was a little too uninteresting. And I'm sitting there thinking, gee, I wonder what Jack is thinking now. Does he think this is really good? Because it's really not. And he turned to me at that moment and he said, this isn't very good, is it? So it wasn't all brilliant. But there are so many talk shows on the air now, and there have been so many over the years. And the only thing that could

distinguish you in this business is if you haven't had a talk show. You forget how unique that was to see stars come on and be themselves, to see Richard Burton being Richard Burton. You didn't see that ever. So he was the first to really do that and get human reactions from these people and humanize them. And so in that sense, he was a game changer.

But he also, we forget that he did something that nobody really has done since, which is that show also became a salon for writers and for other smart people that he just liked having conversations with. It wasn't just one promotion. Alexander King, smart people that he just liked having conversations with. It wasn't just one promotion. Alexander King, people like that who were, who became celebrities doing that show. But yeah, he, he would,

he would literally read a book that he loved and he'd invite the author on. And many, many times that author, you know, was as witty and charming as any performer and, and became performers in a way from, from being on Jack show. Well, he feared that he'd be forgotten or was forgotten. One of my causes of the last few years has been to resuscitate the reputation of a woman who wrote radio and television in the 40s, 50s, and 60s, had an amazing career doing her own show, Peg Lynch, Ethel and Albert, Couple Next Door.

And we got to know her towards the end of her life. And her impact at the time was such that when you went to her house, there was the picture on the wall by – there's a Whitney Darrell cartoon because he lived down the street. And we opened up one envelope and it was a couple of spec scripts from John Cheever, which I have. Wow. I mean unpublished John Cheever stories. He's trying to write a sitcom. Everything about her life is just fascinating and a wonderful story, but what I want to ask you guys is

who's your version of somebody you think has been unjustly and unfairly forgotten and deserves a revival? And then we'll move on to politics. Wow. Harry? Yeah, I'm going to answer the question, and I'm going to regretfully say that

I'm going to leave the politics to you guys because my wife and I have to go to a concert performance by a friend of ours. And I probably stupidly didn't realize that we would be going on at podcast length. We could be going on and on and on, yeah. Wait, you're doing the thing that people who used to do on the talk show say, I got to go. I can't. You're doing the thing that people who used to do on the talk show say, I got to go. I can't. You're doing that thing. I'm taping in the studio next door. But I have an easy answer to your question, which is Bob and Ray.

Oh, wow. Oh, right. Come to mind, of course, because Bob Elliott passed away a couple months ago. They basically got me through childhood. And Pat was talking about people who changed the medium. they basically got me through childhood. And Pat was talking about people who changed the medium. At the time Bob and Ray started, comedy was still people standing on a stage in front of a studio audience with a band and a cast. And they really began the era of what we considered modern radio until radio died, which was a person or two people sitting in a studio with an engineer

and an audience at the other end and building a world around those voices. The characters they created, the gentleness, and yet the edge. They combined remarkable gentleness with great edge when they wanted to. They wrote, they ad-libbed, they did both. They filled an unbelievable amount of hours. Their usual shift was four hours a day, which they filled with an amazing amount of comedy. They did great characters. They then translated.

They did some TV shows in the early 50s, some of which are good. And then they did amazing stuff on the Carson Show later on and did that Broadway show, Two and Only, which if nobody's ever heard Bob and Ray, just check out Slow Talkers

of America from that show. Or they're talking about Webberell Webster. You can't put Wendell Webster in one of the funniest characters that you could ever bother with you. That's why I talk about Wendell Webster. We could talk about Wendell Webster all night.

Remember the sketch where they drove in, two Western guys drive, they come in on horses, and the entire sketch is they're talking about getting down off their horse, but they never do.

That's all they talk. It's 10 minutes. We got to get down off our horse. Or there's a series of book reviews where a lot of the web players, whatever the book is, it turns into this nautical drama. Captain Wolf Larson. Right. Captain,

should I look at the map? Why you? It's just, did Jack Parr ever hear what Bob and Ray did about him? I don't know. But I just want to mention to Harriet, it just occurred to me, didn't – Benny did a takeoff on Jack Parr. Did Parr on one of his – I don't know if it was radio or television, anyway, unimportant. Go ahead. I'm sorry. Wow. No, I don't, I don't remember. I just,

you know, I, one of the early big thrills of my life was I was 18 years old and working in an ad agency in New York, Young and Rubicamp, and got to write and produce a couple of radio commercials with Bob and Ray. And, uh, yeah. Did you go over to the Graybar? No, they came to the recording. I've been to the Graybar later, but they came to the recording studio. But, you know, I've always been fascinated by chemistry

among and between performers, and to watch that chemistry is, you know, the same thing I really admired about Peter Cook and Dudley Moore when I ran, you know, counted their work later, but just that effortless, seemingly effortless chemistry between these guys, the fact that that partnership went on for 40 years, that they were very different people but met in this comedy playground every day and kept making each other laugh as well as a lot of other people. Go to your play. Go to your performance. You know you've got to go. Run to get to people. Go to your play. Go to your performance. You know you've got to go.

It's a concert. It's a concert. It's not a play. Just to add a note of tone, what will you be listening to? Judith, a percussionist, a Portuguese percussionist, brilliant percussionist,

jazz and pop, also plays with symphonies, playing with the Academy of St. Martin in the fields. They're performing tonight. Sir Neville Mariner is conducting for the last time on his 91st birthday. So we're going to go see. Wow. This feels better than St. Mariner in the fields. That's pretty classic.

Why couldn't they find at least some shed to play in or a barn? It's always out in the fields. I'm going to ask him that question later tonight. During the Q&A. We should say that the percussionist he's referring to, his name is Pedro Secundo. You can follow him on Instagram. He's a great young man. Thanks, guys.

Thank you, Gary. Bye, Harry. Good to talk to you. I'm picturing Harry listening to a Portuguese percussionist thumbing through the magazine on public radio. It's quite a life he leads. Yeah, it's like so – just so electric with activity. I'm sitting on my robe, in my robe thumbing through Sports Illustrated. I don't understand. Well, it's like you guys took different turns in life. You made different choices.

But now that we've gotten rid of the liberal. Yes, exactly. Should we – And we were all terribly polite to him, weren't we? We were, yeah. Should we talk about politics at all? I mean – You know, is there anything left to say? I, I have,

I have absolutely given up. I rarely talk about it anymore because it is so it, it is, it's maddening. It is not just unpredictable, but crazily. So there is, there is no scenario that you could introduce today that I would say, Oh, that can't happen. It is – I have never – and I'm not a young man. I've been through many of these things. I have never seen anything remotely resembling this. He choked Sarah Palin to death on stage last night. I think that – that was new. It wouldn't stun me.

I saw a tweet about that. I have one new thing that I would like to say. It's not a big thing. It's a small observation. I believe it even fits in a certain way with what we've been discussing to this point. And I don't think I've said it on a podcast or on the Ricochet before. And it is this. And I'm not expecting anybody to agree with me or even to disagree.

I'm just going to plop this one out there because it's something that can be said that probably ought to be said. And it is as follows. I find we've gone on and on. James thinks Ted Cruz has an unappealing manner. It's very difficult to gain, say that he looks odd. He's sharp edged in his ideology ideology all of that i grant all of that in recent weeks and i mean the last couple of weeks it has become clear to me it has dawned on me i should say that ted cruz from the very beginning has been exceptionally skillful and workmanlike in the craft, the hard nuts and bolts work of politics. Agreed. And set aside the way he looks or this speech or that speech or this maneuver.

First, he was trying to get close to Donald Trump. Then he's backing away. Set all of that aside, this guy wants to win and he is a student of the details of American politics and he is a craftsman. The day by day, where does he go? What does he say? Here he is in New York. All the polls show that he's going to come in third at best. I mean he can't come in worse than third because they're only – but he could be humiliated in New York.

The New York Post has now come out in favor of Donald Trump. And you – Ted Cruz could have simply gone and buried himself upstate New York where he'd be out of the media attention of the city altogether. And you know he is visiting upstate New York where he may win a congressional district or two, but there he is campaigning in the Bronx and he's campaigning over in Brooklyn. He is campaigning and democratic strongholds just because that's the kind of guy he is. He just keeps coming. And I admire Ted Cruz for that. Done. Well, here's the thing. I mean, when you go back to the recent situation in Colorado, which the Trump people believe that Ted Cruz stole, he just had a great ground game. And people were getting emails from him when the Trump people were trying to figure out how to boot up the computer and pop the right list. And if those people were lucky, those emails went right to the box that they wanted it to go.

And that was the top box on SaneBox. And if they didn't want to get them anymore, they could SaneWriter or they could SaneBlack. Wow. This is a masterpiece, James. This is a masterpiece. Well, I had to get in there fast here. But you're doing a great job. Go ahead. Don't want to interrupt. Yes, and the conversation before about how great a job I did led to Audible getting short-shifted a little bit, so we want to tell everybody to remind them, and we'll tell them at the end of the show again what the coupon code is. But now as we turn our attention to SaneBox

and your inbox, you know what it looks like. It's overflown with cruft and nonsense and BS and spam and phishing attempts. And it's just a nightmare. You want to do something about it and you just don't know how, right? I always thought that I'd miss something important if I just deleted everything,

which I did sometimes. And I just think, oh Lord, what stuff had people sent me that's gone and lost. But then finally we get the secret as to how you reach inbox zero like Rob and take back control of your email sanity. And it's called SaneBox and I cannot recommend it enough. I've been using it for months. Life's better, period. It sorts through your email, removes all the trivial stuff into a different folder so the only messages in your inbox are the ones you actually want to see. Now, aside from removing all the junk so you can focus on the stuff that matters, there's this thing called the black hole, exactly what it sounds like.

Move an email into that folder and you'll never hear from that sender again. They are banished to the outlands. It's so gratifying. Well, we all use SaneBox, and we've worked out a great deal for you, our listeners. Visit SaneBox.com slash Ricochet today, and they'll throw in an extra $25 credit

on top of the two-week free trial. You don't have to give them any credit card information unless you decide to buy, so there's really nothing to lose. Try it. You will wonder how you ever dealt with life in email before.

Check it out today, and let us know if you like it, especially that black hole. Die, email, die. And you'll reach inbox zero like Rob. That's S-A-N-E-B-O-X dot com slash ricochet. Sanebox.com slash ricochet. Oh, yes, Cruz, and he's good. Rob, did you have something to add on that before we –

No, I just want to hear what Pat had to say because, like, I think we talked briefly about this last time we saw each other. Just, I mean, in general about all the candidates. I mean it's a pretty stirring endorsement of Ted Cruz' unstoppable work ethic, I think. Well, you know, I heard you talking early in the show, and it's true. There was such optimism not that many months ago. We had this great bench, this great group, and you could almost shake a stick at one of them and say this would be a great candidate. I mean it just seemed perfect, and then Trump happened and everything kind of blew up. But as you looked at that group, if you thought the two men left standing essentially would be the two that are.

You would not believe that and I would certainly put Cruz in that. I mean you would think he would have been one to go early. So you have to admire his tenacity and grudgingly the Republican establishment is saying, okay, we don't like this guy either but we dislike him less. You know what scares me? At night as you're going to sleep, you have the dark thoughts about these horrible things. And what scares me about Trump is, I mean, I don't think he's a crazy man. He's an odd man, but he's not a crazy man. So it'll be fine. If it happened, it would happen. Here's what scares me. And I don't know if I'm being alarmist on this. But there is a group in this country that is itching for revolution.

And I mean that in the most alarming sense of the word. And I think that would be their justification. I mean, I really think on a social level, I think, I think, I think there's an opportunity for real, real social explosion. Um, if, if Trump were to be elected and, and whether it's justified or not, that would be the justification. Uh, so that, that's what I go to bed sweating about at night. 1968-style stuff is what you're talking about. If we have a President Trump, there will be trouble in the streets. Yeah.

Yeah, I think so. And again, there are groups that would welcome that and are kind of – they think society has left them behind or whatever their gripes are. They're sort of embodied in this guy, and that would be the trigger. So that's what I worry about. But, Peter, I do think all the things you say about Cruz are right. I mean they're self-evident, and if he were nominated, I think he would put up a pretty good campaign. It's easy to dismiss him, but I remember a guy named Reagan that was dismissed. I know they're not the same guys, but for many of the same reasons.

He's unelectable and all that for this reason. The conventional wisdom, certainly from our side and from the sort of conventional wisdom side is that a staunch conservative who's kind of unlikable is the – Republicans – massive defeat, goes to have massive defeat. But there is something about this guy that shows he knows how to campaign yes and he and i don't worry about him on the stump saying something weird because he doesn't really do that he's a very good debater and so i don't think you know just in my own imagination of seeing ted cruz walking out on stage with hillary clinton for presidential debate it won't be that kind of that high wire act that we've been experiencing for so long with republican candidates i won't feel like oh god i hope this guy doesn't say something stupid because he's actually really good and very smooth the way he talks now it may turn you off but he there aren't that many gaffes

right he doesn't say stuff he has to later explain this is an unfair thing to say but ted But Ted Cruz would never say binders full of women. True enough. True enough. Hey, Pat, could I – from politics to what politics is supposed to be about, domestic tranquility, supposed to be about letting us all get on with our lives and what's most important in our lives. I happen to be aware that your oldest is very close to graduating from college. And in this springtime, when we start thinking thoughts of Father's Day and future and the changing of the generations, what are Pat Sajak's thoughts as that event bears down on him? Well, it's actually our younger. Our daughter is about to graduate. Our son has long since graduated and is heading off to medical school in the fall.

It's all very, so you've got two large events taking place. Yeah. Yeah. We've got a bunch of, a bunch of that. I misunderstood that. Sorry. That's all right. Uh, but yeah, you know, it's a, it's a, I, you know, I mentioned early, you get the dark thoughts at night. And that's one of the reasons. I mean, you have these, these two, uh, young people who have become people now and are, are, you know, going off and making their own life. And, uh, you know, you want them to have an opportunity to make that life. Uh, and, uh, so that, so those are the, you know, the kind of macro things you worry about because you've got these, these two new voices heading out and you know, like all parents there, I think they're,

they're great human beings and are going to make a great difference in this world. And you just want the world to be a place in which, uh, they can make that difference. Uh, so yeah, it's, but it's fun and it's, you know, time is funny as you guys know, the, uh, it goes slow and fast at the same time. I mean, it seems as if our daughter started school day before yesterday. On the other hand, I don't remember her not being in school. You know, it kind of, it always cuts both ways. But yeah, we're moving on to another chapter,

and it's a sentimental time, and it's a proud time. And in some ways, again, given the political landscape, it's kind of a scary time. Pat, are they stepping out into a safer – an opportunity – an America richer in opportunities and fundamentally safer and more prosperous than you had at their age or not? I don't know. The issue of safety interests me because when you and I were kids, you know, we had 10,000 nuclear missiles pointed at us and, you know, all it took is a, is a Russian who had a little too much vodka saying, you know, I think I'll start this thing today. Uh, you know, we used to have to duck under our seats every week at the air raid drills. That sounds horrible. And yet I felt safer for some reason. There was a, there's a randomness to the chaos.

Chaos is random, I guess. And there's this randomness now that I think frightens us more and which is obviously the goal of terrorism. And in that sense, I think it's succeeding. I think we all feel more vulnerable. We're a little more afraid to do things. We're afraid of new things. We're afraid of new things. We're afraid of unusual things. We're afraid of different things because the unknown seems more foreboding than it ever has.

So I don't know how much of it is in our heads or in reality. Well, let me ask you this, Pat. I know that you shoot many episodes of Wheel of Fortune, you know, for the future at one time. In the period that you've shot for the future, does anything bad happen that we should know about? Yes, but it would be a spoiler. Okay, well, no spoilers. We won't do that then. No, no, no, no.

Well, thank you, Pat, so much for joining us here in the 300th and the 200th, and we'll have you by for the 400th. Well, I hope so, and I'm honored to be a small part of it, and congratulations on 300 shows. It is no mean feat, as they like to say, whatever that means. That's right. But I'm in Prague now, and I'm going to hear a piccolo recital. Oh, God, You're so sophisticated. Not your robe, I hope. Not your robe. No, no, I'm wearing

a tuxedo and I'm taking my copy of NPR monthly. I'm in Benin and I'm going to hear a fellow who's going to do the Flight of the Bumblebee on tissue paper and a comb. So it's going to be lots of fun. Thank you, guys. Before we go,

we have to say something to bumblebee on tissue paper and a comb. So it's going to be lots of fun. Thank you guys. Before we go. Thank you. Thanks, Pat. Before we go, we have to say something to, usually this is where you get that oily, oily, agonist,

soppy, false tone in your voice where you thank you, the listeners, just like they do on public radio. Except we don't have a foundation like public radio. You know, this isn't sponsored by the Catherine T. and John E. and Mark Z. Bakerman Foundation, like they always say at the end of their shows.

No, it depends on you. It depends on the people who have subscribed to Ricochet over the years and kept it going. Because you subscribed and ponied up and paid and hung in there when people were irritating you. It's because of you guys. We've got 300 as opposed to petering out at 225 or 227 or 97 or whatever. I mean it's an accomplishment. And it's because of the people who go to the site and the people who listen to the show and the people who have subscribed. So at the end of this, we have to thank Harry and we have to thank Pat.

And we've got to thank SaneBox, of course, and TheGreatCoursesPlus.com and Audible.com, all of which are great sponsors and make your life better and more interesting if you go there and use the coupon code Ricochet. But in the end, we have to thank you guys who listen and support Ricochet and, you know, we'll be here for number 400. I promise. Unless you all leave in droves. Yeah, can I just jump in on the promise part? Yeah, that's true. We intend to be there for number 400, but it is no small thing for those of you who sponsor and are members of Ricochet that you're doing this.

But those of you who are listening and are not members, we really do need you to join. These things aren't free. The sponsors don't pay for the whole Ricochet network that we try to create to give you lots of choices to listen to. And so your membership does count. So if you're not a member, please go to Ricochet.com and join now. I mean we may be – what I'm saying is we'll be here for 400, but it may consist of some jotted notes that we hand out door to door. So if you want it in this great format... Basically, you and me and Peter just having a conference call.

Once again, Peter, Rob, thank you for Ricochet. Thanks to everybody for listening. We'll see you in the comments on Ricochet 2.0. Next week, fellas, number 301. Looks like we made it Left each other on the way to another love Looks like we made it Come the war Come the avarice Come the avarice. Come the war.

Come hell. Come atrishai. Come the regal bones. Come atrishai and come hell. This is why, why we fight, why we lie awake This is why, this is why we fight. When we die, we will die with our arms unfound. This is why, this is why we fight, come and have. Ride a quiet, ride a long quiet day.

Ride a quiet, ride on how. on quiet day Right of quiet Right of how Come the archers Come the infantry Come the archers of how Come the archers of hell This is why, why we fight Why we die alike This is why, this is why we fight. And when we die, we will die with our arms unbound.

This is why, this is why we fight. Come howl. Come howl. Come out Come out Ricochet Join the conversation This is why, why we fight Why we lie awake This is why, this is why we fight When we die We will die With our arms unfound

This is why This is why we fight Look at those eyes. There's an employee with a healthy case of the go-get-hems. Hear that lion's roar of determination. Homer, Homer, I found the answer. Landers, how did you get in here? This place is a highly sensitive area.

Who here wants to touch radiation? Life shall go for life, eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth. Hey, I don't go to where you work and read the Bible to you. I would embrace such a glad visit. Just what do you want? I want you to punch me in the eye. If you do, then we're even according to Exodus, Leviticus, and Matthew. You went and hired a law firm, eh?

That's pretty aggressive. Cheapers creepers, pop my peeper. Come on, man, what's the catch? Come on, Homer, I'm insisting on a fisting. What's this about a fisting? you you