The Ricochet Podcast - The Big Tech Election

Episode Date: October 16, 2020

We’ve got some debates town halls to cover, we’ve got a good old fashioned social media shadow banning scandal, Joe Biden’s son is bad at influence peddling, we had a Supreme Court nominee sail through her hearing, and we get into the nitty gritty on the 1619 Project. But most importantly, we spend some quality time with Kim Strassel, she of the Wall Street Journal, and one of the most ardent... Source

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Tell them all my Peter Corp packing when the election is over. Now look, I know it's a great question to y'all, and I don't blame you for asking. I'm the president and you're fake news. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall. It's the Ricochet Podcast with Rob Long and Peter Robinson. I'm James Lalix, and today we talk to Kim Strassel of the Wall Street Journal about, well, everything. So let's have ourselves a podcast. I can hear you! everything. So let's have ourselves a podcast. Welcome, everybody. It's the Ricochet Podcast,

number 617. Two years into the administration, midterm elections are coming up. The country's more bitterly divided than ever before, and this is the most important election of our lifetimes. No, I'm kidding. That's two years from now. We'll be hearing that then. Now it's 517 when the election is coming up, and the country's more bitterly divided than ever before. And it's the most important election in our lifetimes. It never ends, but you know what? It gets interesting from time to time because stuff pops up and then you have to say, what do I think about this? Peter Robinson and Rob Long, I'm not going to ask either of you gentlemen, what you think about the veracity of the Biden hard drive, because that would put you into, you know, locking into a position that may be difficult to defend later. So let's just weasel our way around this and say,

hmm, what does it mean? What does it say? I mean, I'm of the opinion now that I don't believe anything that anybody tells me. I just don't. I look at it. I verify what I can, but I have no means to tell whether or not this is true. People I previously trusted now seem to me to be capable of saying things I might not believe. I don't know. But what does this mean? What do you think it means? Because the interesting story, even if you believe it's true or not, is how the tech giants, the tech giants, responded to this panic mode and started keeping everybody from hearing what we were going to see, which led so many people to say, oh my gosh, overnight, 1984. Rob, Peter, welcome. What

do you think? I can be quick. As to the substance, the Biden campaign has not denied it. It's probably true. As to the tech thing, I am still, honestly, I thought at this stage in the campaign, I had lost my capacity for feeling shocked. I am shocked. I'm just shocked. By what? The New York Post is a major newspaper. It is the oldest operating newspaper in the country. It was founded by Alexander Hamilton.

And Twitter shut it down. It locked up all its accounts. It locked up the accounts of everybody, including the White House press secretary, who was linking to a story on the New York Post. Twitter eventually pulled itself together enough to lay out the criteria. The reasons for locking it down, had those reasons been applied to one-tenth of the Russian dossier story, every press outlet in the country and the FBI itself for putting forwardussian dossier story every press outlet in the country include and the fbi itself for putting forward the dossier would have been shut down unverified are they kidding so i am i'm i'm just flabbergasted i'm not even outraged yet that'll come in after the numbness wears off i

suppose for the it doesn't matter because everybody hates Trump position. We go to Rob Long. No, look, what's interesting to me is that people are like, well, we don't know if it's true. It's true. It's influence peddling. When has influence peddling in any administration not been true? It's almost always true. That's what, you know, this is the Billy Carter rule. Yeah, it's probably true. The strange thing really is this idea is a very apt comparison a troubled member of a prominent family yeah who's

a troubled guy i feel sorry for him actually yeah but he's selling access and i mean you know we actually don't need to stop the press which was amazing to me is that the people at twitter thought like well if we suppress this story then people won't think that Hunter Biden is selling access. Just like, wow. Anybody in America who really honestly thinks that Hunter Biden is not peddling access should actually not be allowed to vote. That's just you're too stupid. Actually, you probably won't be able to vote because you won't be able to use a map. And you could be an ardent Biden supporter and believe that the idea that these people we support for the for higher office have to be, you know, I mean, that's the one great mold that Donald Trump broke.

All the Trump supporters I know freely admit he's kind of a low life, but they, for a lot of other perfectly sound reasons, they support him. That's maybe a benefit we've discovered with the Trump administration. Anyway, I'm digressing. Ought this not affect the election then? It won't. It'll have zero effect on anything. It'll have zero effect on anything. Nobody cares about this stuff. But versus ought, shouldn't it though? I mean, if you have somebody who's selling access to a Chinese energy company, the head of which has disappeared into the maw of the chinese state two years ago and a lot of money going back and talk about how much pop takes his cut oughtn't it oh i think people who are trump supporters are ill positioned to talk about

this kind of thing so question it i'm not saying it's not important it's not bad i'm just saying that the the pearl clutching and oh my word from the Trump supporters is just a little too much. That I hope you know. Are you including me in the pearl clutching category? I don't know because you have a you have a sweater tied around. No, but I think that's one thing. It's one thing to talk about the influence peddling. It's another thing to talk about what big tech has done, which I think is shocking.

That is shocking. It's shocking shocking that's a separate election they're trump supporters trump supporters biden supporters actually aren't biden supporters by and large they're trump haters is what they are i understand the position if it affects the election it's going to be uh it's going to be millennials who say oh wait a minute and one day we found out that Steve Scully actually did lie. We found out that Twitter did shut down. And this this wait a minute here, the Steve Scully story seems to be more interesting. The freedom of speech. And there may be some I'm thinking my own kids who may be shocked. Maybe there's some capacity for shock among small numbers of millennials. That's the only way it'll have any impact on the election. But the Steve Scully. So give me your thoughts on Steve Scully. Well, but just to finish the big

tech story, the problem with all of these big tech companies, Facebook and Twitter, is that they got too smart. I said this yesterday on the Oglah podcast, and I really, I mean, and then I started to think about it, and I realized I was right. Twitter was supposed to be this... A dress rehearsal for this. Yeah. Twitter was supposed to be just this timeline, this undifferentiated timeline where you could see what people are posting at that moment. And then if you're people you follow, we tweeted something,

you would see that and you would, and then it would disappear down the timeline. It's supposed to be evanescent and free and fun. Then they got smart and they added algorithms and things that, Oh, here's what we think you should be seeing. And they just overthought it. In fact, the problem is in the algorithms.

Just unplug them. Somebody unplugged Twitter yesterday, by the way. But just unplug them and let it go back to what it was. And then we won't have to worry about what an outsized importance it has. You won't have to worry about what people are reading or not reading. You just do the thing that you started doing and stop being so damn smart about it. Almost all problems are people trying to be too smart. But not just too smart,

but to be our benevolent overlords who are helping us come to a better place. I mean, it's one thing to unplug the algorithms. It's another to disband the Truth and Safety Commission, which is one of those wonderful things it sounds like. Both Orwellian and French revolutionary. And the reason they put those in is because they're deeply worried about harm. Harm.

I mean, when you tried to click on the New York Post story, you got this page that said, the information you are trying to access could cause you harm. And that word is so, so them. So yeah, unplug it all and let it just going back to what it was before. But they don't because they don't want it to be gab and parlor, and they don't want to find themselves at the top of this mount, this babble, this tower of babble,

which they cannot then focus into the socially productive tool that they believe it should be. And yet the investor deck for Twitter in 2008, I think, said exactly the opposite. They wanted to be the Tower of Babel. They thought Babel was good. And I actually think that was – go back to that. Go back to that. The New York Times has an 8,500-word piece now in their magazine about how the First Amendment really doesn't work anymore in an era of disinformation. Because people are using it.

This is the third week in a row in which Rob and I have exhausted ourselves chattering away on the topic of the day, and then James moves in with a profound insight. And the profound insight is that it's not—forgive me, Rob, brother Rob, you're certainly— No, I agree with you. The techies are getting too smart. But James's insight is, no, it's not just that. They have begun to believe different things from everybody else. Did you guys see Barry Weiss's piece in the tablet that got published, what was it, a couple of days ago? And Barry Weiss, who is Jewish, is writing in a Jewish publication and addressing a Jewish audience.

All this is explicit. And she's saying, whatever your politics, all of us used to believe that the United States was liberal in the broader sense of the word, meaning free speech, tolerance. And that ideology is rapidly being displaced. It got displaced so quickly in the New York Times that it bumped Barry Weiss right out of the New York Times. That's, there is something deep and profound. and I am sorry to have to use the word because it does sound like pearl clutching, but I, it is, it is the word, dangerous. That is

dangerous. Yeah, I agree. Lilacs is onto it. It's dangerous, and yet we decide that things that are brand new that we just have are absolutely crucial. The truth is that we could destroy Twitter, just get off of it. The president could just get off of it. It doesn't really help him, by the way. You can't really say as much of an asset at this point. You don't have to do it. I mean, look, I agree with all all that stuff i'm not saying that we get what but but there is this twitter is brand new in this in the cultural uh timeline and yet we act like oh my god what

happens if we don't have twitter like well i don't know maybe maybe they're all just maybe we should be thinking of twitter like mother jones magazine and you just don't want to read it although that would be progress and there's also this gets complicated Maybe we should be thinking of Twitter like Mother Jones magazine. And you just don't want to read it. Although there's some good stuff on Mother Jones, by the way. That would be progress. And there's also, this gets complicated in a hurry, but there is also the legal point that Twitter has protection under the Section 230, blah, blah, blah, blah. But it has protection. The big tech companies have a kind of protection that the Minneapolis newspaper on which James works doesn't,

that the New York Post doesn't. They are meant to be impartial platforms, not publishers who are picking and choosing opinion, and that they are not. So that particular protection of law should be removed from that immediately. In the investor deck for Twitter, they explicitly said that's what they wanted to be and there was i mean i'm old enough to remember yeah i'm old enough to remember when there was this feeling of the oh the freedom that the wisdom of crowds people talked about this freedom you

could find out what people really thought by looking at twitter and instead they just couldn't keep their fingers off of it they had 10 000 computer scientists and all they wanted to do was write more algorithms and try to figure out, how can we give you something that you want? By the way, the hardest thing to do in the world, that's what Hollywood does and fails at all the time. First they said, we're smarter than everybody else.

That's what you're denouncing. Then they said, we're better than everybody else. That's what James is denouncing. But they also enabled and then ennobled a small clique of people who became everybody else well i think what happened what james is denouncing yes but they also enabled and then ennobled a small clique of people who became so in it so immersed in twitter that it actually seemed to rewire their brains and so they started to go after people really yeah with

the smallest the smallest infraction the tiniest sin would be justification for a torch bearing mob to come at you for your career to be cast aside, for you to be canceled, for your work to be done, for your bookstore appearances to be done. And these people have tremendous power on Twitter, which is absurd because they're an infinitesimal minority of the country. But they run the debate, and they're able to shape it. And like in any revolution, they're pure and pure and pure as the day goes by. But they're not really, right? No, so they're not really right no but they're not really how they shape the debate i mean how do they shape the debate how do they shape they get angry at a word that's spoken in a senate in in a confirmation hearing and they promptly you

know make sure that miriam webb webster has the right definition within a day they're constantly shaping and policing what words can be said and what you can do. And yet their response is somehow the president of the United States, who they all hate, got elected and got elected by using an incredible tool called Twitter. Right. I'm talking about the shaping of the culture on a daily individual level, whether it works there. And what they're able to do is something that no secret police ever could do. You can't wire everybody's house. I mean, the Stasi would try, but you rely on informants and you rely on your eavesdropping equipment. This is everybody having installed on behalf of Big Brother a monitoring device themselves and then signed up for everybody else to be a little nosy Parker

who's sticking their nose in everybody's business. So you have this vast network of people then who spend all of their time Yeah, but they only have power over people who also spend their time on Twitter all the time. If you didn't spend your time on Twitter all the time, you'd be absolutely impervious to the power. And the only people I can see that are getting cancelled are people I'm perfectly thrilled are getting cancelled

because they're all left-wing. No, they don't. Somebody amplified yesterday on Twitter a letter that they'd gotten from somebody who was they knew that the writers' letter that they'd gotten from somebody who is. They knew that the writers program that they were talking about wanted to surface BIPOC voices, women and black women and other minorities. But nevertheless, as a white woman, they wanted to say something. So she contributed an essay. Tell me what you think. She got back this snarky reply by somebody who said that, no, it's offensive to me that you didn't read this. It's presumptuous of you with your white woman privilege to come in here and even demand that I ask this. So this went viral as the things do on Twitter. And the next thing you know,

this woman's book tour is canceled and her podcast is dropped by the people who did it because it's easier to do that than to stand up against this ravening mob, even though they may be seven or eight people. It's so... No, I hear you. The cowardice of institutions is one of the... When it comes to seeking fertility treatment, time can be of the essence. At Beacon Care Fertility,

we are proud to offer prompt access to affordable fertility care. With over 60,000 babies born across our fertility clinic network, we have both the science and the expertise to deliver. We offer convenient payment plans and are partnered with VHI and LEIA. Beacon Care Fertility, where science meets life. I mean, I don't have that much, I mean, I do, I guess, but it's all intellectual sympathy for this woman who clearly was trying to play in the sandbox that she thought was cool. And the people, the cooler people in the sandbox kicked her out.

Like she wasn't writing. As far as I'm concerned, like what outrages me about the New York Post issue with Twitter is that this is now they're finally coming for conservatives. Because mostly the liberals are going after each other. And I'm kind of happy to sit there and eat my ice cream cone and watch it happen. I mean, look, the ultimate problem with Twitter is that they is that they gave us a tool. They created technology so that you could be on Twitter and only see the things that you like and only follow the people that you like. And what they discovered was that people actually like that and that some of those people that you like are Trump supporters and that drives them insane. So they don't know what to do about it. They can't de-technify, de-algorithm their product, but they just don't know what to do by the fact that people are, they've given everyone the right and the ability to follow only people you agree with. But oddly enough, if you listen to nothing

but the major network news back in the day, the news is the major network news show back in the 80s and 90s when there were just three of them, right? You would get a specific received view and that's what everybody would be talking about. That was more of a bubble than Twitter because even on Twitter,

if you only follow and curate, to use that dreadful word, the people who believe, who agree with you, you're constantly going to be subjected to retweets and stuff that the other side is saying. Now, it may not be indicative because it's being picked out for its idiocy, but there's more pollination between the spheres than there was when just watching the news delivered to you by Brokaw or John Chancellor. I think that's the problem. It's not a problem.

You get more of the other side on Twitter today than you would if you were watching the old mainstream news. I think we were much better off, James, when we didn't know how stupid the other people we know are. I think we were much better off when we had no idea what your specific crackpot political beliefs were. I think when we were all actually mentally distanced and emotionally distanced from each other

rather than socially distanced, we had a much happier society. I think you're right. I'm thrilled. I'm happy that I don't have to know what my neighbors, in whose windows I can probably look right now, what their political views are.

I can't agree with you more than that. I have friends on Twitter who say things that make me weep because it's just, you know, really that you don't, you don't know. I have to say all that. I'm sorry. Yeah. I have to say this. No, no. Obviously that's what they always say. Like I have, I know I'm, but I must say you don't must say you could also not must say you could. How come we, how come we don't do this? And you and you look at it you say because it's unconstitutional it's inefficacious it's wrong it costs too much money and you're a journalist okay okay well should we keep going

with this or should we go on to the debates which one of the debates okay this is a better sort of could i just make one point here's my everything you guys said is interesting true and so forth i would make like to make one little last observation. What concerns me is less what is getting censored than what isn't getting said at all. Yeah, much to do. And Rob, what I have to, I mean, I just have to promise you that if you'd worked on the campus of a university over the last couple of decades as I have,

you would have seen a difference in attitude among the kids toward what they're allowed to say and what they're not allowed to say, and I toward what they're allowed to say and what they're not allowed to say and i mean what they're allowed to say even over coffee when they're talking with oh i can only imagine it is that it is just not good not good no and that that has been that is a problem i think i mean the benefit of seeing what's happening on Twitter is helping because that is a problem that now everyone sees so brightly I mean people right now are rolling their eyes at universities in a way that I think they used to think oh eggheads and now they think malice and you can count on the fingers of one hand the major universe leaders of major universities who've stood up for free

speech on their campuses, notably the University of Chicago, Mitch Daniels at Purdue, Larry Arnn, God bless him, at Hillsdale, is talking about the importance of free speech every single day. I said fingers of one hand, and that's about as far as I can go. And you're done. I can see. Yes. Well, free speech empowers Nazis. Free speech empowers hate. Yeah. Free speech causes harm what's what what is

important is correct speech would you rather have correct speech or free speech that's wrong and that's not only that that to them is an insight it that's not just that's not just an offense against an offense against the liberal construct of the of the american polity which is one of the great human achievements of all human history it's an offense against youth college kids should be mouthing off they should be talking back to administrators they should be talking back they should be raising their hands in class and saying hey prof i don't get that they should be talking back and challenging to each other it's just an offense against youth if if they believe that the very liberal notion you described is the creation of a western civilization

that that centers west ideas that that it's post-cult that we have to decolonize it and get rid of uh you know all the dead white males and the rest if you regard the western enterprise as a failure as something that's irredeemably sexist and patriarchal then your freedom of your brave speech is attacking those who defend it and all of the ideas for you know that sprang from it well it's interesting about all those things i mean i you know i'm not trying to make light of it but when you go and you hear these college kids complain about it the the the subtext is always we don't want to have to read those books because they're long and it's much easier to say,

I I'm offended by this 800 page, a book that's been translated from the German. So I won't read it. Instead, I'm going to read this tiny little pamphlet or a series of tweets written by a contemporary in the, you know, using about 20 different words and that's it like that.

There is something so incredibly hilariously magnificently lazy about all of it that they would rather they actually believe sitting around and talking and telling stories about how you feel is work because it's so easy to do it's much harder to read a book um and so i think eventually as we're already seeing like there's this kind of eye rolling that people make uh it depends when they ask what did you study and it's like uh but if you say engineering like oh interesting oh right medicine oh that's like okay i'm i'm get you you're oh then you're smart but if you say you know gender studies or english literature even it's like oh what are you a moron for the moment i mean you're already finding all the hard science disciplines having the commissars come in and saying,

we have to understand that this has been historically prejudiced, and the rest of it, and we have to have an accounting. There's nothing that will escape this scouring. And watching them get out and forth. I mean, in the magazine that I get, the Society for Commercial Architecture, looks at commercial archaeology. It's old signs, old buildings, old motels. That's your heroine. Oh, it's wonderful stuff. There was an article in there about how we have to know. We really cannot be fair. To be fair, we have to look at all of these things through the lens of how they were historically denied to other people of different genders and and races it's like what a it's presumptuous that i don't already have that historical filter and b you don't realize

that once you insert that it becomes the only lens through which any of this thing this stuff right i don't understand but that's still social science that's not real science road signs denied to i don't understand how that how that concept even applies in this particular instance the guy was talking about gold medal flower and other flowers of the early 20th century, which advertised their whiteness, their association of whiteness with purity, which you can understand because the flower that had come before was was was done colored and it wasn't milled by the same process. the good so should we not then when we see all of these old signs on the faded painted signs on buildings advertising the superior values of whiteness should we not then realize that what they're really telling you is it's made in factories that are not contaminated by italian immigrants got it no okay no i'm i'm not going to do that and i'm not going to look at every diner and discuss it first and foremost by saying yes of course where it was this was a segregated situation i assume that the whoever is reading or listening knows that that to

be right in the context of american history right right it's also the most boring way it is it's just so easy to do and uh and if you're sort of a quasi-academic in some way in the social sciences which is just ridiculous but if you are for some reason you-academic in some way in the social sciences, which is just ridiculous, but if you are, for some reason, you found yourself there, you forest-gumped your way into that kind of area, it's just easy. Like, what do you, I mean, you can even hear it. It's the subtext of everything. Like, what do you want me to say? All right, I'll say it. Like, what are the rules?

And I'll do it. You can actually see it in people's writing now that some of it is just, it's just fantastic. It's just like like it's so obvious you think only and i and here i will say something racial only white progressives can can be this silly can be this stupid only white progress even like you can see in some you know you know off the record academic black academic uh even progressive black academic conversations this kind of irony oh my god they have to listen to the white progressive talk about this is just so irritating because they just they you know they want to fit in they want to fit in

that's and that is the academic world right it's it's uh you know middle school with no money with tenure and then there's bill Burr's Saturday Night Live routine where he's talking about the amazing ability of white women to have centered themselves in this discussion, to have claimed the most oppression of all. A wonderful little bit of theater there

because the audience didn't know whether or not they were being attacked or whether or not they should laugh. And I love that. That's one of the reasons I love Bill Burr, who, by the way, has a really profane comedy on Netflix called Fs for Family.

It's a hilarious, scouring piece of work, and it reminds you everything you loved and hated about the 70s, which were a dreadful time. Right now, I can almost feel thighs scritching together with that polyester fabric that you had. Oh, my God. The bell bottoms with the cuffs that you could accumulate. The chase was so uncomfortable. Awful stuff. Well, there's nothing to be done. Everything'suffs that you could accumulate. The chain is so uncomfortable. Awful stuff. Well, there's nothing to be done. Everything's still uncomfortable now, James.

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macweldon.com slash ricochet. And our thanks to Mac Weldon for sponsoring this, the Ricochet Podcast. And now we welcome back to the podcast kim strassel member of the editorial board of the wall street journal she writes editorials as well as the weekly potomac watch column from her base in washington dc her latest book is the intimidation game how the left is silencing free speech thanks for joining us kim and i have to ask um are you in washington now or are you in balmy alaska i'm in min, but it just snowed. I am in balmy Alaska, and it's about 17 degrees outside, so we can be cold together. Why would you choose that?

Why would you choose that? James wanted all the sympathy for this show. He announced at the beginning it snowed last night. Ha! No, I'm trying to give myself the sense that it could be worse, and it could be. Alaska's beautiful. No, I imagine all Alaska is beautiful the sense that it could be worse. And it could be. Alaska is beautiful. No, I imagine all Alaska is.

It's an existential question, James. It could always be worse. But why is that worse? Some of us actually like the cold. Oh, okay. I just got back from L.A. Try to make us believe you. And it was 90 degrees, and that was horrible.

Yeah, I prefer the sort of heat, the temperatures that don't suggest the loss of a toe is imminent and possible. But I've been here all my life and I will continue to do so. I did love D.C., though. I love the hot weather. I love the torporousness. Now, D.C. in fall, when it's beautiful, is having a convulsion over a Supreme Court nomination. And America saw Amy Comey Barrett and thought, wow, that's that that's an impressive, sharp, put together person. And America saw Amy Comey Barrett and thought, wow, that's an impressive, sharp, put-together person. And you wrote that a justice is worth a thousand tweets, that a lot of what the things that Trump's critics, Trump haters don't like, they got this. And this is good, isn't it? I think it's very good. And what I would wish is that the Trump

campaign would use a moment like this better. Because if you look at Joe Biden, his entire strategy, and he hasn't been shy about it, has been to make this election a referendum on Trump's persona and Trump's character. And look, we all know there are a lot of Americans out there who are conflicted on that. They like what Donald Trump does. They don't always like what he says. And so to the extent that Donald Trump can be talking about what he does, his deeds, his promises that he kept in the last election, and one of the biggest one of those, obviously, is his work on the judiciary, more than 218 confirmations at this point, the economy, and other very significant contrasts

with Joe Biden, he's going to do better with some of those on-the-fence voters. This was an opportunity for him. We'll see if he makes it more of a closing argument. How would they do that if it can't? When it comes to seeking fertility treatment, time can be of the essence. At Beacon Care Fertility, we are proud to offer prompt access to affordable fertility care. Thank you. convenient payment plans and are partnered with VHI and Leah. Beacon Care Fertility, where science meets life. Let's put it this way. If you were campaign director for Trump, how would you take advantage of Amy? I mean, here's the little embryonic thought in my head. And my head says, wow, there are going to be some, he has trouble with suburban women,

there are going to be some suburban women who look at her and say, wow, she's a wonderful human being. She's a mom, she's a wife, and she's a brilliant legal mind. This is the kind of woman that I would like to, that I certainly want my daughters to look up to. And if she's willing to accept Donald Trump's nomination, if she's willing to accept donald trump's nomination if she's willing to put up with donald trump i'll vote for the son of a bitch that's quite the right way to put it how does it how does the trump campaign sort of make how would you take advantage of that if you were the campaign you do two things i think the first thing you do is exactly what you just pointed out is that you you fet her as a person and you put her forward as an example of the kind of quality nominations that the president has done.

But then you also, and you use that, by the way, to go after certain, in particular, certain groups. You micro-target, like you said, suburban women. This is an issue he has trouble with. But the other thing you do is you use it to highlight the very profound choice that is being asked here, which is, do you want a president going forward who's going to nominate judges of the caliber of Amy Coney Barrett? Or do you want a Joe Biden who at his town hall essentially admitted that if Republicans confirm her, he is going to blow up the size of the Supreme Court and agree to court packing. And, you know, that's a really profound choice. We're talking about the future of the judiciary. That's the kind of message you need

to be getting out. And they won't do it, will they? Probably not because, you know, the main person who is the spokesman for the campaign, you can have all the ads you want, you can have all the strategy you want, all the ground game you want, but the person that people are hearing is the president on the stage. And I just don't think he necessarily has the discipline to stay on that kind of message. Kim, I'm going to, I will now remand you into the hands of Rob Long. But I do a weak position because my line of questioning has led us to the point that Rob where Rob is only too happy to begin. And that is that the trouble the trouble with the Trump campaign is Trump is Donald Trump.

Right. Go ahead. I mean, I just want your thoughts on two structural problems. I think one is the wall. He ran on the wall. And my old dear friend, Ann Coulter, when you take a walk with her on the beach, as I did this summer, she unloads on him about the wall. Where's the wall? And we were talking to a bunch of people who are big Republican donors, and they were Trump supporters, and they asked her, they said, know, what can Trump do for you that you could come out and support him again? And she said, what do I want? I want the wall. And there are a lot of people who want the wall. How much trouble is that ultimately? I mean, I know this promise is made, promise is kept, but that was a very big promise, and we don't have it. Yeah, absolutely. And he's avoided talking about it. I don't even know if it's an avoidance so much as we all know.

The issues that we are now talking about are so much different than anything we were talking about even eight months ago. And it's hard to kind of fit everything in. It's also hard. I mean, look, look at that NBC town hall. They spent the first half an hour just pummeling him on the virus. How do you get the wall in there? I think that he can still make that case because he also has an argument that some of it has been made. They've been making some progress and that to the extent that they haven't, it's been because of democratic obstruction on that. But, you know, that's

one of the missed opportunities, Rob, which you are alluding to here, which is, you know, that's one of the missed opportunities, Rob, which you are alluding to here, which is, you know, one of the greatest things that Donald Trump could be doing out there is saying, you really want me to get this stuff done? OK, elect me and elect my guys in the Senate. OK, and put more of my guys back in the House because the problem are Democrats. And you have to make that argument in a sustained way. You can't just say crazy socialists. You know, I mean, you have to the Truman argument explain for people what the consequences of the election are. And that's that's a little harder to do. You know, look, I'm I am already foolishly making, you know, autopsies on the Trump campaign and the Trump administration. I'm probably going to be,

not probably, but there's a good chance that I'm creating terrible karma for myself. But assuming that what happens in the three weeks is what we expect to happen or what's where the direction is going, how much do you think old people are his problem? He's lost a lot of support among old people, and that has long been a Republican redoubt. Yes, I call them senior citizens, by the way. Yeah, right. Well, I like to call them old people because it makes me feel like I'm not part of that, even though I'm rapidly approaching that number. Well, look, there's no question. I think if you look at the polls, by the way, just as a starting line, I'm not convinced the polls are absolutely correct i don't think that they're

off by a margin of 10 but i think they could be off by a margin of two or three points i think that some of the polling agencies are making some of the mistakes they made in 2016 as well and that two or three points can be very significant especially in battleground states but and even it's just on the polls even on the polls we have it's still open in the electoral college the democrats are piling up huge majorities on the coast trump leads in the south and and the rest of the country is sort of tight i think i think you can even say even on the polls we have it's still the race isn't decided yeah this is true and also i think one more thing that people forget is everyone kind of talks about the polls as if the election is happening tomorrow but if you go back and you look at 2016 um this

was about where donald trump was in the polls against hillary clinton and what you saw in the final two and a half weeks of the race when everyone finally decided they needed to get off the fence one way or the other was those polls tightened dramatically. So I'm just saying, watch this space over the next couple of weeks. But to Rob's question, yeah, even if there are some problems with the polls, there's also no question that he has lost ground with senior citizens. And look, that's a very simple thing. It's the virus, right? And it's why he's got to change focus.

It's not that he can ignore it, but he needs to be talking about issues other than that. Things on which people do trust him much more, for instance, the economy. And the polls also show that consistently. As you say. So my last thought here is that and just tell me if I'm crazy. But when Trump has been doing better in the poll, we have now, you know, for almost four years of polling for him and popularity polling that when he does really well it's when we don't hear from him or see him a lot which is true for a lot of presidents by the way that was obama's that was truthful for obama too um and the campaign unfortunately is a time when we have to hear and see from the candidate a lot and he to what extent is that i'm not asking for a definitive prediction but to what extent is that I'm not asking for a definitive prediction, but to what extent is this ultimately a real problem for him that in order for him to make his case, he's got to be in front of TVs and he's got a tweet and there's a certain exhaustion that is out there for his act.

Yeah, well, it's certainly true that that is the case for a lot of candidates. And I would also mention Joe Biden. You know, Joe Biden did his absolute best when he was in his bunker and not answering any questions. You know, again, if I were advising the Trump campaign, go do all the rallies you want. Right. Because that's also what matters a lot now, too, is getting your base enthusiastic about you. There are going to have to be some events that you cannot avoid for instance next week's debate assuming it comes off uh go in there and understand that it is your best chance to make a closing argument to um undecided voters and and have

more discipline than you had in the first one um you know and and yeah cut back on the tweets a little bit you know make every appearance count um that is i think not in this president's nature uh he likes to be uh he likes it to be about donald trump and i think what he doesn't understand is that every time he goes on to an nbc to do a town hall the media lives to pounce on him and he unfortunately lives to give them those opportunities. He did okay last night, though, I think. I mean, I actually think they both did okay last night. I think, look, I honestly believe that Donald Trump does extremely well in town hall formats when he is dealing with average Americans. And the painful part of that evening was

Savannah Guthrie and listening to that just kind of merciless attack. And the whole thing that went through my head as I was watching is, could you ever imagine this woman behaving such a way with Joe Biden in front of her? And of course not. You know, I mean, it's the standard almost makes you laugh. But to the extent he got to answer questions in the crowd, I thought he did very well. So, Kim, I'm sorry, James. Go ahead.

With Kim's on, I have a thousand questions, so I will restrain myself. James, go ahead. If we gave the president a dopamine patch, he might be able to get off Twitter for a little while. So, there's the issues that Rob talked about. There's the issue. There's the virus. There's the wall. There's the rest of it. But there's also this big, incoherent cloud miasma of cultural issues, which coalesced during the riots when you saw all of a sudden that have problematic names like Abraham Lincoln and, you know, an abolitionist poet. Those should

be scoured away and replaced with the people who are sufficiently need to be ennobled again today. On that hand, you've got that on one hand. On the other hand, you have the Garden of National Heroes, about which we've heard absolutely nothing. But nevertheless, if you had to break it down, you would say Biden's party enables those who want to cast off American history and are ashamed of the country. And Trump's side of it is generally saying, let's put up a garden with a bunch of statues in a representational form that celebrate American history. And for some people, that's something that nudges them in one direction or the other, that they may not like Trump, they may detest Trump, all of those things. But he doesn't enable a sense, he doesn't enable the culture of people who want to remake America

and fundamentally transform us, as the Democrats always tell us that they want to do. Is that a big factor? I think it is a big factor for many Americans, but I also think they're not getting an answer from either candidate at the moment only because that dichotomy that you just laid out between the flag and tearing down all of our history that i would argue most people fall somewhere in the middle there not just our not just our history but our basic assumptions about humanity culture etc i mean biden yesterday was talking about eight-year-old transgender children. I think a lot of people were saying,

we should be respectful and kind to those people who have a gender identity with which we do not agree. But the notion that an eight-year-old child is able to make the... A lot of people are just going to say, no, I'm not going there at all. And this is the party that will say, that's not only cool,

but hey, drag queen story hour which i know david french views as a sign of our you know our freedoms but you know which side either is eventually going to what side each party is eventually going to come down on right and i think one of the problems with this election and this goes back to the media again is nobody's hearing about those views now look i mean everyone got to see joe Joe Biden at that event say that, which I think would really astonish a lot of just average Americans who don't buy into that and really reject it as well. And a lot of these other cultural issues as well, too. But how are they hearing about it? How are they seeing about it? Look, we have another controversy this week with, you know, Twitter and Facebook censoring, you know, a pretty explosive headline that came out of the New York Post.

You've got a media that is all in to kind of protect the Democratic candidate at this point. And they understand that a lot of these issues are beyond the pale for a lot of Americans. But, you know, four, eight years ago, this would have been an enormous statement, what Joe Biden said. It would have been headline news. I had CNN on this morning, and I can tell you, that's not the news. No, because the norms are constantly being reshaped. And what was a perfectly logical position for a politician to have is something that is going to drive them from the public eye.

But yet it never seems to happen to the Democrats. Nobody brings up Joe Biden's previous expressions of his attitudes about homosexuality or gay marriage it just didn't happen you could say that donald trump is the most has done more for lbgt communities than anybody else because he doesn't care as long as they love him that's great but but he's i mean the the trump side for all the supposed norms that he's doing, fundamental cultural norms about the country are not being thrown into the mangler to the extent that the Democrats do. And I mean, surely a lot of those people know that Joe Biden is just simply going to be the guy who writes the who signs the things that the intellectual power is coming from a direction that's far to his left. And he'll just simply acquiesce and channel it. Well, right. Yeah. Sorry. Go ahead. Hold on a second. I know Peter has a question,

but I have a question for you and it's about your charitable giving. We're sponsored today by Donor's Trust, the principled and tax-friendly way to simplify your charitable giving. Here's a scenario. Imagine John and Jane. They got college-aged children. It wasn't long before the couple discovered that the world looks a little different when viewed through this new collegiate lens and the things our kids are hearing and learning to. So how do you find something that's going to counteract those ideas? Well, since then, John and Jane have been supporting classroom and other foundational programs that teach the principles of economic liberty, of rule of law, and free expression. They could have written personal checks to accomplish the goals, sure, but instead, they opened a donor-advised fund at Donors Trust. At Donors Trust, they knew they would spend less time on administration and more time having an impact. A donor-advised fund is like a charitable savings account where you can manage your giving in a smart, tax-advantaged,

and private way. Donors Trust is unique. They work with donors at all levels who share a commitment to the freedoms and the principles that strengthen America. Donors Trust philanthropic advisors can help you sharpen your giving, discover new groups, and define your charitable legacy. So join the community of liberty-minded donors at Donors Trust. To see how a donor-advised fund could benefit your giving, go to DonorsTrust.org slash Ricochet for our six reasons to use a donor-advised fund. That's DonorsTrust.org slash Ricochet. And our thanks to Donors Trust for sponsoring this, the Ricochet podcast. Kim, okay, you've written a book about the way the left is suppressing free speech.

We saw it in the last couple of days. Twitter censored the New York Post. That's one thing. Here's another somewhat related but different thing. Just asking questions. The New York Post has a headline. They've got Hunter Biden's old laptop. They've got emails there. The Biden campaign denies nothing. And George Stephanopoulos never raises the question with a man who's running for president of the United States, never asks the question, one. Two, COVID, what about the increase in opioid abuse? What about

the increase in depression? What about the studies that are beginning to come out now showing that school children who are being denied an ordinary age, that home, that learning by Zoom isn't working, that children are being seriously disadvantaged. And when I say what about, what about, what about, these are questions that strike me as obvious that reporters, as best I can tell, don't seem to be asking the public health officials. What, the day after this election ends, do journalists go back to being journalists? Is this all a temporary Trump-induced aberration?

Or have we got a very serious and permanent problem with the profession? Well, and I would point out, by the way, that these aren't oversights. These are deliberate omissions. And that's really important to point out because you have, it's an astonishing thing to say that you have journalists, the protectors of the First Amendment, the Fourth Estate, the people who exist to make sure that we hold all of our officials and running officials accountable, deliberately refusing to ask questions because they know it might harm the candidate itself or an idea that they care about. That's not journalism. That's advocacy. You know, I mean, I'm an opinion

journalist, by the way, and I would hang my, and even though, so I get to express my opinion, even I would be embarrassed by, you know, the lack of questioning that's going on here. You know, and you mentioned not asking about Hunter Biden, not also asking a question about what Joe Biden was doing, unmasking Michael Flynn. You know, what happened in that meeting? You know, all these things that are on the public's mind and agenda. And no, here's my, to answer your question, I don't think we go back because here's the thing. When once, as you know, to answer your question, I don't think we go back. Because here's the thing.

Once, as you know, as we all know, standards never go up in Washington. They only ever go down. It's a race to the bottom. And yeah, it's not like people magically go like, well, that last Congress really misbehaved. We're going to do better. Let's clean it up. Yeah, let's up our game here, people. That does not happen. It's never happened in the history of Washington. Sometimes you can have huge

cultural changes. And I like to point this out. Yes, we have had politics that have been even uglier in the past than now. Go back and look at the days of Andrew Jackson, okay? And so things do change at times. They do get better. on a day to day basis, we do not improve in our political discourse and behavior. And once journalism has now gotten a taste of the freedom of behaving in any way it wants to, and it sees how much of an effect it can have on a political outcome. I cannot see a scenario in which it voluntarily surrenders that power. And the market isn't punishing them. Right. That is to say that as far as you know that the washington i don't know the why well the washington post is now owned by jeff bezos but as far as i can tell the new york times i saw a poll the other day

people had been asked their party affiliation 93 democrats at the new york times which is higher democratic than fox News was Republican. They found a market for this. Only 93 percent. The commercial aspects of what we continue to call journalism are not correct. There's no self-correction here from the marketplace. Well, I would say on that, though, I would say watch this space because we are in an unusual moment. You've seen a lot of print publications, readerships go up,

but that I would argue is in function because everyone was locked in their house for a long time and had nothing to do but stare at their computers and watch TV. Interestingly, if you look at some of the cable outlets like CNN, they saw a big drop off in viewership after impeachment. Now they've kind of got it back

because of all the drama of the election and everything. But I keep asking myself, how many media moguls out there are actually terrified at the idea of Donald Trump losing this election? Because, you know, I think a lot of them. Who watches Rachel Maddow anymore

when she's not out telling you that the president is the Manchurian candidate? You know, why tune in anymore if the world isn't ending on a day-to-day basis because of the Trump administration? The Financial Times actually today, this morning, had a piece about the vulnerability of the New York Times to a Biden presidency,

which I thought was very, actually, because it wasn't even an editorial piece. It was sort of a sober look at their online subscriptions and what might happen to them if we no longer um couldn't we're no longer part of a hashtag resistance right if they're lucky if they're lucky the republicans will file impeachment papers on joe biden the day he's inaugurated yeah about those standards about lowering the bar yeah that's right what about the senate i'm sorry i just don't want to let you go without this. We talked about the presidency, the presidency, the presidency.

Do you have a feel for the way the Senate is shaping up? The Senate races? If you talk to Republicans, and look, I think this is undeniable if you look at the polls. Just three or four weeks ago, you had a lot of breathless coverage saying, yeah, it's not just that Republicans are in trouble in Arizona and Maine and Iowa. But, you know, my God, they're going to lose South Carolina and Texas and Montana and Alaska. Now, if you look at the polls, I think what you're seeing is that those bases are coming home. You know, there was a poll out this week showing Lindsey Graham to be in pretty good shape in South Carolina. John Cornyn is not losing his seat in Texas.

Dan Sullivan's OK up in Alaska? Dan Sullivan seems to be okay up in Alaska. I mean, you can't ever take anything for granted. And this is a weird state in that we don't have a lot of polling, but he seems to be general. And you're all ornery people up there as well. And we do have an ornery group of voters. It's just an unusual voter crew. But, you know, Montana, Danes. So you still have Republicans that obviously are in some really tough seats. Martha McSally in Arizona. Susan Collins always has a tough reelection. Doesn't matter what the year is. Cory Gardner, you know, and then and those are the ones that I watch the closest. But then you also have North Carolina, Tillis.

Is he safe now that there's a scandal on the Democratic? I don't know. It should help him. I don't know if he's safe. And then the other one is Joni Ernst in Iowa. So those are the kind of five I've got my eyes on. But at the same time, remember, there's going to be a change down there with Doug Jones in Alabama. It's almost certain. And then you've also got this interesting race in Michigan with Gary Peters and John James.

And those have thrown out some interesting poll numbers, too. Just give us a sentence or two on John James. He's such a fascinating figure, the Republican candidate. He is an example of what the Republican Party could do if they could recruit more people like that. He's capable, smart, and knows how to campaign. And he's a guy that looks like he's a doer. And when you get folks like, you know, Gary Peters, he just has not been much of an entity. You know, it makes for an unusual opening. You have ornery, strange voters alaska that i know but you know minnesota here l frank and jesse ventura like interesting interesting to note that the paper for which i work the star

tribune has declined to endorse ilan omar uh they just simply don't like the way she's behaved they also declined to endorse her opponent because they said that his message while he's been in the community for 40 years and he's a aff affable, smart man, and I remember him back in college when we used to hang around the same diner joint together, they said that his message of personal responsibility and limited government is not appropriate for his district, which is one of the most astonishingly condescending things I've ever heard in my life. So watch that one, too.

I know you've got big races to look at, but watch Minnesota because this state is peculiar. And it's purple as all get out the farther you get from the metropolitan area here. Anyway, we've got to let you go. No, well, James, you just made a connection for me. I had not ever put this together, but you do know that about 70% of all the people who live in Alaska moved here. And you do know where a significant number of them come from. Minnesotans who are tired of the sun. That is correct.

Oh, is that so? That's the way I want to lay it. Well, because they're inured to the tundra. They know that. And there's just something purer about the Alaskan experience and more beautiful. I mean, for heaven's sakes, I've been there. It's just absolutely gorgeous. Won't be moving, though.

I'm more inclined to go to a place where there's cacti and someplace where I can dry out in my dotage. But I know that you have to go because you're rapidly approaching the point of the year when you get no sunlight, none. So you've got to enjoy all the sunlight. This is true. I'll go out right now, get my vitamin D. All right. Lather up in the block SPF too, which I think is what they sell there in Alaska. And thank you for joining us on the podcast today. Thanks guys. Kim.

Thank you so much. Take care. Well, we could have gone on and on and on forever, but then we have a nine hour podcast and we really have to get to the thing that we always have to get to at this point, which would be. Wow.

Which would be. No, that's just. No. No. The James Lydon's member post of the week. Nope. Nope. No, that's...

Why pay for the gosh darn fargan thing if we can't use it? That's just not acceptable, James. I'm angry for you. I'm angry for you. Give me the sounder. The talent shouldn't... On the count of three. Three, two, one.

I don't know. Thank you. I like it better when that wasn't there. We're out of time for today's show. We're not going to have the... Yes, here we go. What we had this week was from Ricochet member Susan Quinn. Thank you. I like it better when that wasn't there. We're out of time for today's show. We're not going to have the... No. So, yes. Here we go. What we had this week was from Ricochet member Susan Quinn.

We've done her before. And for good reason. Because she comes up with these things we like to read. She wrote, trapped in fear. That was the post. Quote, friend is returning to Florida in a couple of weeks and asked me an odd question. Was there a way to check on the internet at any given time to see whether emergency rooms and or ICU beds were open at a hospital? I had to ask her to explain what she was asking, and her query became clearer. If she had to be hospitalized with COVID-19, could she check which hospitals had

space? Susan writes, my brain felt as if it had been flooded by a dense fog. Then I dipped into dangerous territory and asked my friend if she was getting news on the virus from any other place other than MSNBC or CNN. She didn't answer. Susan concludes, people like her are everywhere. They choose suffering over information. They prefer living with a worst-case scenario rather than embracing possibility. And there's nothing I can do to help, to help her or anyone else.

She's right. There's this intersection of the busybodies and the fearful and the paranoid and the authoritarian and those who just like to sit at home and work in their pants or without them um and it's created this class that seems to be not interested in the truth so much as keeping us in this state of constant twitchy fear now granted minnesota had a record number of cases today but cases aren't hospitalizations hospitalizations aren't deaths i am not living in fear what do you think? I know we've been over this before, but it's been a week. Anything changed? Nothing has changed.

Susan Quinn remains marvelous. She can't write a bad sentence. I just want to say that. Susan Quinn is terrific. This is what Kim was talking about. Journalism willfully, I think, will willfully simply not misrepresenting facts cases particularly cases among young people don't matter if anything we should be relieved at an asymptomatic spread right we what we're trying to do here is prevent sickness and we're

above all trying to prevent people who are old and have comorbidities. A word I didn't know. Yeah, and about those. Somebody pointed out that Chris Christie eats 732 meatballs a day. And he had COVID. Yeah, he's in trouble. Yeah. Yes.

So the case count is irrelevant by itself. We need another word, actually. Good news. Yeah, we need another word. It's such an imprecise word. It suggests that you're in the hospital. But what I love about Susan's post, you're right, they're all great.

First of all, there's a lot of great engagement about it, a lot of good conversation about it. She's one of our members and contributors who seems to start really great conversations. So there's all sorts of stuff after that post that is really worth reading in addition to her brilliant piece but i think what she what i liked what did she said what she said um people choose suffering over information they prefer living with the worst case scenario rather than embracing possibility and i kind of like i that articulates something I've been feeling. There is this weird creep, and some people I've noticed, this weird creepy joy.

They're enjoying this, this kind of calamity and all of the drama around it. There's kind of the, it allows a very, very, very rich, very, very, very lucky, lucky probably the richest luckiest healthiest most blessed generation and people on the face of the earth and the history of the earth are americans in 2020 right that's pretty there's actually no disagreement there on any metric this country and the people who live here are insanely well blessed uh and yet there's this urge to turn it into some kind of victim tragedy that I find so creepy and weird and kind of beneath sovereign citizens of the United States of America. There's something about it that,

and I'm not talking about the masks, because I wear a mask. Masks are fine, but just the kind of cowed, terrified, that kind of like over-Purell-ed alarm that I see in the media. And I actually, frankly, just, just knowing the people I know in New York city and going and visiting them and having them come over to my house,

even my liberal, very, very liberal friends are sick of it. And there's something. So I'm, I'm ultimately more optimistic, I think than Susan, but I think she's absolutely right.

There's a whole segment of these people that are loving this because it's not costing them anything they're going to be on tv and make a lot of same amount of money they were making before when i went to the office the other day and there was nobody there nobody there an entire newsroom empty there was a new device by the door and i hadn't seen it before it's about the size of a large iphone oh yeah and uh it had this weird sort of it was like a camera lens that was trying to focus these concentric circles going around and around and around and i walked up to it and a light came on sprang on illuminated me and then gave the shape of a human silhouette i was instructed to put myself into that shape so that i could be so my

temperature could be taken that's's every restaurant in New York. Oh, really? Right. And I backed away from this thing instinctively because first of all, I'm fine. Secondly, I don't want to know if I got like one degree more. What does that mean? Well, I ran up the stairs. Right.

The thing, this is never going to go away. That device will never go away. And whether or not you submit yourself to when you enter is a judge, you'll be judged by that. And the people who, you know, who exactly gets up and says, Oh, you know, I'm really feverish and achy today, but I got to go to work, especially in this regimen when anybody can stay from home, that person isn't going to submit themselves to that. So it's another piece of theater. And it's another piece by which we can judge other people depending on their attitude toward us. And it's that sort of constant grinding over and over, addition to things that never go away, and change the incremental way in which we react and interact with each other that I absolutely hate.

I mean, there was a piece in the Washington Post about a woman who sticks bleach up her nostrils and is worried about contamination in her eyeballs and leaves her packages up for three days, lest there be some of the COVID and miasma on it. It's pure, absolute panic porn theater that they do. And I wonder, how in God's name does this person even live when they know that something in the house they touch could be touched by somebody else who didn't follow the regimen? And they're enjoying it. This is scratching an itch that they have.

It's weird. You're absolutely right. I mean, it's like in this house, if went into the bath it might if i lived with somebody like that and i went in and i i my wife saw me accidentally touch her toothbrush and she was like that person she would freak out not knowing how much i had touched her toothbrush and made her infected by this you know because that doesn't happen because i will only use well no it wouldn't because hers is silver and mine is teal. I have the silver one. She's got the teal quip.

I forgot. So there's not going to be any confusion about which one that I would use. Right. When I said quip, you know what I'm talking about, right? I know what you're saying. And you're thinking, yeah, I'm going to brush my teeth. That's its own reward. I want to add something to this, by the way, at the end.

I'm interrupting you in your pitch, but I want to say something about Quip at the end of this. And so you shall. Make space for me. Create space for my voice. Could you hold space for me, James? I'm reserving a table of one for Rob to pontificate. He can stand up on it, knock over the ice glasses, and give us all he has to say about Quip, but I have to say this. When it comes to teeth, brushing your teeth is its own reward, right? Well, not necessarily. With Quip's new smart electric toothbrush, good habits can earn you great perks like free products and gift cards and more. You probably heard us talk about Quip 10 million times, and I have, and I'm never sick about it because I love it and I want you to love it too. But this, this is something brand new that rewards you and rewards your mouth. The Quip

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dot com slash ricochet. Quip, better oral health made simple and rewarding. And our thanks to Quip for sponsoring this, the Ricochet podcast. Now, before I go on, I'd like to ignore Rob's request and ask you, no, I'm sorry, Rob, what were you going to say? I was going to say that an additional pitch for Quip is that I broke my Quip. I stepped on it. It fell, and then I was looking for it, and then I heard it crack. And I broke it. I broke the Quip. And I really do miss it.

It's been about a week and a half, and I miss it. If only you lived in some large, well-stocked metropolis where one could go to the store, or even if you order it online and have it delivered right to your door for free shipping. Such a thing is possible in this modern era. Yeah, I need to get onto that. They don't have it at Duane Reade? You can't go down to Duane Reade? They don't have it at Duane Reade.

They don't. I got it at Target. So all the more reason to move to Minnesota and shop at the Red Place. All right, guys, before we go, a couple more things. You know, we have not talked about the 1619 project probably because it angers up the blood and the fine red mist of fury shoots out of every poor, but this week Brett Stevens had the gall or the courage, depending to write a 3000 word essay saying it's Bushwa essentially.

And there was blowback. We were talking before, Peter was, about the New York Times being 93% liberal, which still seems low to me. The Times Union Twitter account came out and castigated him. And the author was saying, this is what Black women are used to experiencing here. Do you think he's long for the world? Do you think the project is going to be dethroned as the new alternate history that everybody loves because it confirms their priors? Oh, if I had to place a bet on the 1619 project versus any individual employee of the New York Times, even Brett Stevens, I wouldn't put money on the individual employee. That organization is hard over. Rob?

Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I mean, that's a hard question to answer. I mean, Brett is a friend of mine, so I talk to him fairly regularly. And, I mean, he doesn't seem to be trimming his sails. Still, this is going to be taught in schools, even though there's been this little dispute about whether or not the author says, I did not intend this to be a story about the true founding when the internet wayback machine is there for a reason that's exactly what they were saying it was the whole point of the thing is that intellectually historically culturally this is the founding of america um you know and that goes back to we were

saying before with kim however you want to parse biden and trump it is a stark divide between 1619 and 1776 when you look at the parties and it's you know it's not the most uh clear but but there you have it and when it comes down to it if that's the vote that's the vote and of 1619 wins the country's in for an awful lot of change um one more question because an optimistic hold that hold that thought because I have to tell people the thing that they usually don't listen to because they think the show is over. And it almost is. But Rob's got more. Wait for it.

Podcast brought to you by Donors Trust, by Quip, and by Mack Weldon. Support them for support us. Get great clothes, cleaner teeth, and better donation. What more could you want? Listen to the best of Ricochet, by the way, hosted by, I can't pronounce this, Lilix, Jim Lilix. Yeah, it's on the Radio America Network. Check your local listings, as we like to say. And take a minute. I know what's the point of saying this. Thousands of you went to Apple last week and gave us five-star review. Thousands of you. Why would I repeat the

call when so many of you responded to my clarion request? I'm going to do it again. Apple Podcasts, five-star review. Thank you very much. And that makes the podcast even more popular. More people see it, more people join Ricochet, and Ricochet exists into the indefinite future. So, Rob, you were going to say? I was going to say that while it is true, the 1619 Project in schools is troublesome. Conservatives have it within their power, both their power and their purse, to come up with exciting and interesting and more authentic and more accurate alternatives. And one, not a conservative, but an ardent liberal, Lin-Manuel Miranda, had the biggest Broadwayway show ever uh hamilton which is an un unmitigated patriotic love fest for the founders and for their beliefs and for their passions and for

their conflicts with each other and for their sort of intellectual clashing and it it describes the founding of this country as well and as patriotically as any piece of art any american has ever created and it's gonna get a lot more people are gonna see and be touched by hamilton and be energized and proud of the founding of the founding fathers in their work then we'll slog through the benighted sad victim fetishizing 1619 project there's a great i think there's a great pent-up desire on the part of middle-of-the-road democrats to be patriotic again and to love america again um and if biden is elected then you know it'll be like when clinton was they look up those are our jets now and they can be proud of the country and it'll be west wing season 42 or whatever to

their surprise the people they're voting for in the background have other ideas all right it's been fun thank you for listening to the ricochet podcast thanks to our sponsors and kim our guest rob uh we'll see you down the road we'll see everybody the comments ricochet 4.0 next week where'd peter go he had a run oh oh he got out got off. Got it. Okay. Okay. yourself but now you're off with someone else and i'm alone you see i thought that i might keep you for my own pay me what you want to do i think I could stay with you for a while maybe longer if I do do

don't you think time is right for us to find all the things we thought weren't proper could be right Thank you. Ricochet Join the conversation I'm Amy. Amy, what you want to do? I think I could stay with you for a while, maybe longer if I do.