The Ricochet Podcast - The Doctor Is In

Episode Date: August 11, 2016

This week, Hillsdale President Dr. Larry Arnn stops by to make the intellectual and academic argument for Donald Trump (h/t to Ricochet member @rushbabe49 for her post This Might Change some Minds on the Election). Can the good doctor sway @roblong, the resident #NeverTrump representative on this podcast, into voting for the Republican nominee? The answer lies within. Public service announcement... Source

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However, that is not without its downsides. What Boehner is angry with is the American people holding him accountable. If I become president, oh, do they have problems. They're going to have such problems. That's funny. I don't know why that's funny. It's the Ricochet Podcast with Rob Long and Peter Robinson.

I'm James Lalex and our guest today, Dr. Larry Ricochet Podcast, and it's number 315. How did I get this far by our great sponsors carrying us along? Of course, it's brought to you by the great courses. I got to ask, what are you waiting for exactly? Get started now with the great courses, plus so you can dive deeper into areas you'll love to learn about. Special offer coming up later in the show to get you started too and we're brought to you by casper mattresses try casper for 100 nights risk-free in your own home and if you don't love it they

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It brings us this podcast, a lot of other podcasts too. We've got to grow. We've got to get some more members. There's a little graphic on the site, Ricochet.com. It shows you how many more members we need. It's very transparent here. It's just simply what we need to make the business work.

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And, Peter, you've got a post up now at Ricochet, top of the post, saying there's hope in Ohio. And you're not referring to the rather peculiar ground game of the Trump campaign thus far. You're saying that Senate-wise, all may not be lost. All may not be lost. All may not be lost. By the way, for people who are listening to this podcast who are very pro Donald Trump, just hold on. Our guest today is Dr. Larry Arnn, president of Hillsdale College. And he's going to tell us why we should all be supporting Donald Trump. In the meantime, it looks to me as though the Trump campaign is going down and my fear like that of many, many people is that Hillary Clinton is now up in Ohio in all the

polls by two points, three points. The Real Clear Politics average yesterday had her up by 2.6%. And yet at the same time, Republican Senator Rob Portman, who is running for a second term and who was even with or behind his Democratic challenger for month after month after month, has now broken into the lead over former Governor Ted Strickland. Republican Senator Rob Portman is, according to some polls, five points up, according to one poll, seven points up. So there is the hope that Republicans running for reelection in the Senate can figure out how to disconnect themselves from the SS Trump as it goes gurgling beneath the waves. There are lifeboats that will still be viable if they can row away fast enough to avoid getting sucked down into the vortex.

And it looks as though they can. This is a compliment to the voters of Ohio who can draw distinctions between Donald Trump and Rob Portman. Rob, do you think that's going to work in the general? Do you think the Democrat strategy of tying Trump around everyone's neck like a boat anchor is going to work? Of course, it's hard to say blanket statement in 50 states. Yeah. It's going to work in some states. It's going to work really well in some states.

I mean it's going to work – it's going to work I think more for them with a get out the vote campaign is my sense. More for Hillary you mean? More for Hillary, you mean? More for Hillary and get-out-the-vote. My sense is it's going to be one of those things that's going to work in Cleveland. It's going to work in Cincinnati. It's going to work in cities. It's going to work in highly African-American areas where they are – where the – they're worried about turnout because they're missing their star player, right? 08, 12, African-Americans were incredibly motivated to go to the polls for obvious reasons

and they're worried that in 2016 they won't be as motivated so they're going to have to use a lot of there'll be a lot of anti-Trump stuff all the way up and down the ballot. I'm not sure it's going to work everywhere. Ticket splitting is a really hard thing to manage in general. People going in

and saying, well, I'm not going to vote for the top ticket because I don't hate that guy or I'm going to vote for Hillary Clinton. But that's only because I don't like that other guy. I'm going to vote, but I am going to vote for Rob Portman. That's a hard thing to do. You have to have kind of fundamentals anyway in that candidacy to like – to do it. But it's not impossible. It's – look, her problem – her problem is that she's got one gigantic piece of luck, right? She's running against someone whose negatives are higher and more solid and growing faster than hers are and no one could have predicted that a year and a half ago, a year ago.

Like it just simply wasn't on the radar screen. So she's got – Not only could no one have predicted it no one could have believed it right right i am still feeling cognitive dissonance overall anyway right and and and and her the benefit for for um democrats in general is that there's a giant pool of eligible voters right people who qualify to vote who don't do it, who when they do do it, vote for Democrats. So when you go hunting for votes, if you're a Democrat, you can find them. They're there.

That's what the vans are for in Ohio. They're there to get people to the polls. Republicans structurally don't really have that problem. They structurally don't have a get-out-the-vote problem in general. I mean, there's not a vote-rich environment for them because Republicans are, you know, we're decent people. They vote. They vote every cycle.

They vote even in the off cycle. They vote in the midterms. Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait. How about the never Romney people who didn't show up in the last election and handed it to Barack Obama? There's one exception. No, that's not even an exception. That's not only an exception if you look at the raw numbers.

If you look at the states where those Romney – the traditional Romney voters didn't show up, those states were states that Republicans won. But the turnout was lower in some of those states if you look at the numbers. But there was – lower in states that Republicans didn't – Romney didn't put any effort into because they're going to win them anyway. Romney didn't get those voters because he was insufficiently conservative. If he had been really conservative like Donald Trump, all those people would have come out for him. I'm telling you the nonsense that I hear. I'm telling you the nonsense. I'm preparing for the nonsense.

If all those people come out, the electoral college totals would not have changed. Maybe Pennsylvania. Let me just state the exception because it's on my mind because I'm preparing to interview on Monday for Uncommon Knowledge J.D. Vance, the author of this wonderful new book, Hillbillyology. And so the exception, of course, is the Scots-Irish who live in Appalachia, which stretches from upstate New York, where I grew up, all the way down on different definitions, all the way down to Arkansas, white working class, southern Ohio, Kentucky, Tennessee, Western North Carolina. The evidence is pretty good that those folks did not get too excited about Mitt Romney and they could have squeezed out more of a vote. On the other hand, Rob is perfectly correct that a few extra voters in upstate New York wouldn't have helped maybe Pennsylvania.

That's a stretch. Maybe Pennsylvania. Mitt Romney got West Virginia. He got Tennessee. Did he carry North Carolina? In any event, these voters only live in far western North Carolina up in the mountains. And so that's that's the exception. voter rich vein to tap it for republicans just structurally who republicans are it doesn't really matter if you've got a hundred thousand vans gassed up and ready to go uh to take people to the polls it doesn't really matter uh maybe in pennsylvania but other maybe and that's out of 49 you'd have to really you'd have to that that that would be a real stretch because you have to then say that the hundred thousand vans that the Democrats have in Philadelphia and Pittsburgh won't swamp you.

And the truth is they probably will. I'm not going to say one is not good, one is bad. Get out the vote campaigns are much better and much easier and much more effective if you're a Democrat right now than if you're a Republican. We may discover in December 1 of 2016 when they do the numbers that that situation has changed. But it is certainly the way it is now. So Trump's – look, it boils down to this, right? If the election is about her, he wins. If it's about him, she wins.

But both of them seem to want it to be about him. And that is a problem. That's a structural problem right now with the Trump campaign. That will do. That will do is a beautiful, succinct summary. Couldn't agree more. And I would simply add that the only demographic or ethnic group with which Donald Trump is popular is the group I just mentioned, white working class in Appalachia. In West Virginia and Eastern Kentucky and Western North Carolina, you can drive those hills,

apparently, I've been reading and Googling around and see Trump's signs everywhere. But that's the only group where Donald Trump holds a majority and you cannot get elected president of the United States on the Scots-Irish in the hill country of Appalachia. That's his only support, only firm support. And I mean like it or not, I mean I'm not even taking a side here but it is almost always true, right? The screaming is loudest after the change has occurred and whatever the ethnic or cultural or identity politics that exist in the powerful voting bloc that's pro-Trump, it's too late. This is not – we are not on our way. We are not going to maintain a majority white Christian nation in that respect. It is not – America ethnically is not going to resemble what it looked like 20 years ago, 25 years ago, 30 years ago.

What will it resemble? If it's not going to be – if it won't be predominantly white or let's just say Christian in its value. I meant that in terms of what some of the identity politics that surround Trump seem to be indicating, that we've got to bring America back to what it was. And it's just not going to happen just ethnically and demographically. It's not going to happen. Now, I'm not saying it's good. What is North Dakota supposed to do? Is North Dakota then supposed to adopt a completely alien set of cultures and values? North Dakota is not going to stop being what it is, which is predominantly white and Christian.

That's a really good question. I don't know. I mean if you want to talk about some government effort that will – By the way – Every single county in America have the demographic balance that they want. That's one thing. Welcome to that brave world. But big cities, no.

Of course, big cities have always been different, which is why New York Valley has actually meant something to some of us who were offended by it. But what is the rest of the country supposed to do? I mean if North Dakota is expected now to adjust its culture because New York and California have decided to adjust theirs or have had it adjusted for them. No, we're under no obligation to do so. No, I absolutely agree with you and I think what you just described, how you just put that is the – whatever you think of the current political choice, it is the underlying tension and fault line for American politics and culture today that suddenly you have people who – I was watching TV one day and then all of a sudden there's the kid in my kid's class who's transgender or they're arguing about bathrooms or they're shooting cops in Dallas

or there are and I'm this is on my mind because I just went to a dinner last night where I said I saw our old friend Troy Sinek who says hello and Drew Klavan was there from Manhattan Institute put it on in LA for Heather McDonald's magnificent incredibly gripping scary well-reported book The War on Cops. Like if you're just sitting home and you watch – like what on earth is happening? And there are no dots to connect this. We've had years of growth. We had a year of war in 2000.

That doesn't mean we're going to suddenly have strange cultural breakdowns at home. That doesn't mean that at all. But somehow it happened and no one predicted it. And if you're an ordinary American, I mean of any description really, this has got to be unsettling and legitimately so. Well, absolutely because you're – there's no – well, when you say there's no reason, of course the reason is for the progressives and the people who like to dismantle the society that we have today is that they're doing away with the last structural examples of racism, sexism, cisism, all the rest of the things that have kept us from being the idealistic, utopian, pluralistic society they know it could be any day now with just the right laws and coercion. Yeah, if you all would just shut up and obey our laws, we'd have a utopia, right?

After eight years of this, of course, now they're just going to go for as much as they possibly can. It's not going to work in the middle of the country, but the middle of the country will find itself being compelled because what other form of love is there that does not involve some sort of pulse? Right. Well, if you look at a map, if you look at a population density map, the population densities are in blue areas, right? Big cities.

And that's where the opponents of free market and constitutional freedom have their greatest support and that's a problem. Right, and the coast will just say, shut up and grow our corn. Hey folks, I want to tell you before we get to Dr. Larry Arnn here that The Great Courses is one of the fine sponsors of the show and as well,

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He served as the 12th president of Hillsdale College in Hillsdale, Michigan since May 2000. He's also a professor of politics and history at Hillsdale. He teaches courses on Aristotle, Winston Churchill, and the American Constitution. And we welcome him to this, the Ricochet Podcast. Welcome. Good to see you. So yesterday on the Sean Hannity Show, Laura Ingraham made the point that if you call yourself a conservative and a Republican, she said, quote, it's actually immoral not to vote for Donald Trump. There are people who think that the right has been insisting on the importance of morality

and character as essential parts of the American experience, what makes us different. With the elevation of Mr. Trump and with comments such as Ms. Ingram's, do we really matter – does character and morality and conduct and comportment really matter that much anymore in this election? And if it doesn't, is that something we're never, ever going to get back? Well, they matter, of course, yeah. And I don't know that I would say it's immoral. It's a judgment, right? It's a prudential judgment, and it would be immoral if you made the judgment of – she's just the kind of person we all want to be. And Donald Trump's supporters say that too, and their detractors both say the opposite. It's hard to be sure about that against people you don't really know, and you wouldn't start there anyway. Wouldn't you start with what they propose to do, and then their character emerges, their public character

emerges through that and how they support it. Well, I would, except that I think one also can say, well, this is what they say they're going to do. Here is their record of keeping their word. Here is their record of being truthful. But when you said before that voting for somebody for personal reasons instead of the reasons of the country, could you expand on that a little bit more as if those – are you saying that people who themselves have a moral or personal objection to a candidate are doing the wrong thing because they're letting those emotions speak first? Well, you're supposed to wish the good of your country first, right?

And there are big differences between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton about what they propose to do, and I prefer in general what Donald Trump proposes to do, speaking for myself. And so since it's true that there are doubts raised, heavy doubts raised about the character of each of them, those things cancel each other out some too, don't they? It depends on – I mean do I believe that Hillary Clinton is a complete and total liar? Yes, I do. I think there's absolutely nothing that she would say that she wouldn't calculate the political advantage of and I don't believe her frankly. Do I believe that she's corrupt? I believe that she's actually absolutely corrupt with the clinton foundation does donald trump have that level of corruption no if you look at the

the vitamin pills and the uh and the condos and the steaks and the rest of it he's a low-level grifter compared to her but there is a there there are well i'm gonna hand this over to peter and rob because everybody knows no no because yes larry lar, no, no. Because Larry is – excuse me. I feel that I've known Dr. Arndt long enough to call him Larry. Please. But what's taking place here is so gentle. It's just reframing the question and then ending each statement by Larry with a question for James. This is just a beautiful thing to watch because this is what goes on in the best classrooms.

I just want to watch Larry lead James along. James? Okay. Well, here's this. Here's the place to which I cannot be led. I cannot be led to the place – and you can tick these off as irrelevant as you wish. But A, where I admire Donald Trump. B, where I trust Donald Trump.

C, where I believe the majority of what he says is good for the country. And D, the point where I want to say, I want my name entered next to this guy. Here's an admirable figure that I want to be able to tell my daughter, yeah, I voted for him. All of that is separate from the whole Trump versus Hillary thing. I mean, I understand. I understand that if I'm not supporting Trump, then by gosh, I'm helping Hillary get in and wreck the country. But I'm telling you the places that I just simply am not going to go. And because I feel that way about the person, these are not feelings that come from some bruised class sensibility or some tender little way of looking at the world that is running away to the fainting couch because Donald Trump is such a bruising alpha male. No, this is how I feel. This is what I believe. A sensible, rational person who wants the best for our country and the finest

actors to strut upon the stage looks at this fellow with absolute dismay, if not outright disgust. That's how I feel about him. So I'm not going to be led to a place where I say, he's my guy. That's good, yeah. Okay, so I'll say two things back to that. First is, those two things

are not separate. We're not discussing whether Donald Trump should be time person of the year. We're in a presidential race, and's the Republican nominee for president. The second thing is there are, in fact, many things that I admire about Donald Trump. I mean there are some things that I don't too, but there are many things I admire about him. One of them is his fearlessness in the face of this culture and political and oppressive culture of political correctness we have today. And so it's just crazy what's going on, and we are living in a state of lawlessness now. And I will tell you that I looked it up. So Donald Trump on January the 16th of this year published over his name a beautiful article in the Reno, Nevada Gazette on the Bureau of Land Management and the Rule of Law. And it was excellent.

And I read it and I thought, wow, I wish I'd written that. Wonder who did write it. So I went in and got Mr. Jack Shannon, our recent salutatorian now at the London School of Economics. I said, Jack. Hillsdale. Hillsdale. Hillsdale.

Let's just keep reminding people of the excellence of Hillsdale. I said Jack – 1990 or 91, I forget, and they are consistent, and many of them come right out of his own mouth. Donald Trump is engaged in a major assault upon the regulatory state that is a danger to the liberties of the American people, and it is the most full-throated one that I have heard since Ronald Reagan. Now, if I could have Ronald Reagan in the race, I would be thrilled, but it turns out he's dead. And so we've got this guy, and the regulatory state is one of the two main problems facing the American people today. The danger today is that the government is going to overwhelm the people of the United States, And that's because of a vulnerability in representative government that we delegate all the authority to govern from a society. And if the government gets bigger than the society, which it has done or is close to doing, then the government might take the sovereignty unto itself. That's what I think is going on in America, and Donald Trump is plainly an enemy of that and has been for a long time. Larry, Peter here.

Rob Long is also on the line. James had to drop off just now. He had something just – Well, I'm sort of – Well, I'm glad James is gone. I'm sort of having a mini stroke here, but I'm – You're just – Rob, we'll come to you in a moment. We'll come to you in a moment.

Larry and I need to make some music together here. Rob is going to – let's just say that James was a warm-up act. You're going to need that and a little more when you deal with Rob. Let me take – so what is the second great problem facing the country? The first is the metastatization of the state. And the second is the entitlement state, which it's a fact Donald Trump embraces, right? Right, right. So I have lots of reservations about that, of course.

Larry, the strongest argument for Donald Trump, I think most people would agree, I'm asking to see if you do too, is the Supreme Court. If Hillary Clinton is elected, almost certainly two nominees, probably three. We know the kinds of people she'd appoint. The court would be gone for a quarter of a century. Donald Trump released a list of 11 people who were the kinds of people he said he would appoint. And the list by viewed from people on our side, whom I respect, I think almost universally, everybody, John, you said the list was excellent. Richard Epstein said – on and on.

What do you say to those who say, yeah, yeah, yeah, fine. He can release lists from now until election day, but you can't trust him to act on them? Well, as I just said, he has been consistent about something for more than 30, and that's the thing I just named, right? And so I actually do think – in general, I think he – I mean one of the – sorry, I'm stumbling here now. But Republican primary races since the great Ronald Reagan died – and I realize, uh mr robinson that he was only great because you helped him but and maybe and maybe you should help trump but uh but uh um since he since he left office we've had a lot of people who protested about how they're going to do things about this out of control government and they haven't done it, and they

haven't seriously tried to do it, both Republican and Democrat. And so people don't have any trust in anybody anymore. One of the reasons Trump won the primary, in my opinion, is that you actually believe he will do it, and that's partly because of the amazing, sometimes outrageous, always fearless ways he speaks about things. And that is an element of his success. Here's another point. So I do think he will appoint judges like that. I mean I happen to know because I don't talk to Trump. I've met him one time in my life.

He upstaged me at a major event. I should have a grievance against him. Larry, Donald Trump is the only figure I can imagine ever upstaging you. But go ahead. I tell you, he did it too. It was awesome. My wife said, gosh, he took up all the time. And my wife said, this is outrageous.

And I said, yeah, but look around. It's pretty good. And I don't feel like in my life I have to compete with Donald Trump. But here's another point. If a guy – like I remember my heart sank two elections ago when somebody wrote in the Weekly Standard, I think. It might have been Steve Hayes, a friend of mine, who's a never-Trump guy, like Rob, I guess. And he said, going to an Obama event is like going to the World Series. And going to any Republican event is like going to AA baseball, right? And I just thought, ooh, that's terrible, right?

And there's a picture of John McCain on my computer screen on the front page of The Wall Street Journal today. And, you know, that might have been that election. And, you know, wow, I don't remember that fondly. thousand people and here's a point if you think that there's two kinds of people in the world and you have to because it's like one of those logical dichotomies fancy pants people like us and ordinary folk then who do you think is going to save the country and you know fancy people fancy pants people like us there's about eight of us in the whole country, right? I mean if you include the faculty, most of the faculty of Hillsdale College and the people who work here, there's like 40 others, right? Who think as we think, yes. So what are we going to do, right? And we also – one of the things that unites us is the conviction that in the end the people are of that right.

And so I looked at that with great respect i mean in that audience i think it was in night no one was that that was in you know maybe 2014 or 2013 it was a it was the oakland county north of detroit lincoln club bunch of midwestern republicans right There were like 1,800 people there. And I will tell you that they had signed up when they thought I was going to be the keynote speaker more than the governor and the attorney general of this state, right? But then Trump shows up, and he's just the man, right? And I just looked around, and I said, wow, that's interesting, isn't it? And then just watch his YouTubes, right? I watched 20 minutes of a YouTube of him a month or two ago in West Virginia giving a talk. And the 20 minutes I heard, I agreed with every word he said. But there were 10,000 people there, and they were screaming and laughing and cheering at all the right points. So that's a weighty thing. Right. It is a weighty thing. It is a weighty thing.

Larry, as I said, the strongest argument in Trump's favor in my judgment is the Supreme Court, although you've added a couple. The strongest argument against him, I believe this is a fair statement from reading our side on the internet and comments on ricochet and so forth is simply this the nuclear button the idea that that man would be in charge of our foreign policy and in particular of the war making power of this country how do you answer that one and then then i'm going to release you on to rob long oh. Let's just talk a long time. I don't want to talk to him. But so first of all, I answer Trump's not an expert, right? Obviously not, right?

As I say, I admit the point. I didn't vote for Donald Trump in the primary, and I wasn't – and sometimes I wish I had. But Trump doesn't know a lot about that. But I will tell you that the direction in a broad sense of his foreign policy is welcome to me in some important respects. One of them is I think that it's just a fact we should own up to, that we've been fighting a war for 30 years now or more and we haven't won it. And we should fight it more

directly in our interest. And you know, I have published a book about Winston Churchill of late, and I've been working on him for 40 years, and I will tell you I argue that I prove in that book that winston churchill was a afraid of war b thought that it should be cautiously undertaken except under necessity like hitler attacking your country and and see that the war aim should be limited

and and we have his example in iraq and iran for example where those points are borne out. And so I think that we have given ourselves – Republicans have given themselves to a Wilsonian kind of foreign policy that expects freedom to erupt in places where it's very difficult. And so some of that I like. And I think that Trump talks mostly with restraint about that stuff. And to some considerable extent, that is welcome to me. Got it. Rob Long, you were about to receive an education, a reeducation. I don't think so. I really don't.

You see, you see what I have to live with, Larry? To me, this is depressing. I guess I would start by saying something like from the movie Jaws. I'd be worried a lot less if I thought you were worried a little more. to describe Donald Trump is to me ludicrous, especially in terms of the – let's just take it in order. We'll work backwards. Have you been to a Beyonce concert? Lots of people there cheering too. I'm not going to vote for her for president. Have you – have you – have you followed Donald Trump's business career? He has been an emphatic, full-throated supporter of government intervention.

He has used those levers to get buildings built and to get bankruptcies disposed of. Now, I'm sure he's written an op-ed or someone's written an op-ed for him in a Nevada newspaper. But to cling to that tiny little raft to support a man on the defense that he's for the rule of law is – it's beyond wishful thinking. Well, so first of all, I use the word consistently in a blue suit is to me – I don't know what – I can't quite understand what dots you're connecting. Those dots do not exist. Look, I just claim that it's so, and I have the authority of Jack Shannon, a great authority. When he has addressed himself everywhere we can find for the last 30 years to the question of the rule of law, he has spoken well about it, and that's consistency about that specific point. And that point matters.

Conservatives always throw back – real conservatives throw back at Trump his support for eminent domain, the Kelo ruling. I think that's a mistake. Yeah, I think that's a mistake. Yeah, I think that's a mistake. Was that inconsistent with his written behavior or his written work? No, no. He's wrong about that and has been consistently wrong about that. But about – see, and I do – I think that's important, but I don't think it's as important as this. What the rule of law requires is that general laws are passed by an elected Congress and signed or not signed by the president, enforced by that president if he signs them, and following presidents, and also upheld in their plain meaning by the courts. That's the place where I think Trump has some understanding and has expressed

it consistently for a long time. And I think it matters a lot and it matters more than the eminent domain question. Okay. Moving on to the regulatory state. What is a – besides the obvious regulatory state, would you not consider a tariff state and a taxing state – what is it, 45 percent tariff on Chinese goods to be the beginning of a regulatory state? Can you imagine opening up trade – half of the trade or more than half of our trade deals or our trade regulations are at the behest of industry in America. There are regulations designed to tip the scales for certain companies. What about that suggests to you that he's for a smaller government and a more deregulated government? Well, so about the trade issue, I'm a free trader and therefore I differ with Trump. I follow Churchill.

But then I go on to – Well, Churchill, as you said about Reagan, Churchill is dead. Your emphatically full-throated support for Trump is that he's consistent, which he hasn't been, and that he's for – So first of all, Rob, that's a mischaracterization. You say emphatic, full-throated. I'm going to vote for him, and I favor him against Hillary. That's what I've said, right? And so you don't get to describe what I say in different terms than I do. So how would you describe your enthusiasm for Trump on a scale of one? I have not used the word enthusiasm. I'm going to vote for him because I see things to admire in him, and I'm naming what they are.

And some of them are convincing to me, and about some of them I am enthusiastic. But you would say that his full-throated enthusiasm for raising tariffs is something that disturbs you, but you're willing to overlook it. Well, I was busy explaining that when you interrupted me in order to mischaracterize what I've been saying. Shall I go on now? Please do. Yeah. I said it is a fact that Winston Churchill is dead. I do know that.

But I said that I follow his example. You can follow the example of dead people. You just can't elect them for president. And I said that I'm aware, though, and I was going to go on and make two points. One is that George Washington and Alexander Hamilton and Abraham Lincoln were all tariff guys. And so I wonder if the natural law speaks for sure about that question. The second is these trade deals do have that feature you said, but also as in the case of the European Union, which started out as a common market, trade deals today are also ways to place into international agreements and sometimes into international law greater control by the regulatory state. NAFTA has features in it like that,

and I regret those things. My own understanding of free trade is, if you want to sell a bicycle in Germany, you call a guy in Germany and see if he wants to buy one, and if he does, then send it to him by Federal Express. And free trade doesn't work like that these days. So if the effect of Trump, and remember, Trump's methodology strikes me, and it's backwards, and it's one reason for his success is he says the most outrageous things first, and then he adds the qualifications later. Mostly what people do is they start out with lots of reservations, and then they draw a hard conclusion at the end. So when you listen to Trump on trade, what he ends up saying is I'm going to use that as leverage to get better deals for us. And that, I think, is more or less, I mean, you know, I realize Trump is different from Ronald Reagan about that, who did, by the way, accept some tariffs and some protection. He did also

use the leverage of the chance to trade with the United States to get better deals for certain industries. I don't like that myself, but it's common. And about that, I could say if you're a free trader, if you're a protectionist, then you're a despot. And then I would be calling Abraham Lincoln a despot and I don't think he was. Larry, Peter here once again. Could you hold on just a moment? Rob, we're a little bit at sea without james who usually steps in at this point we need to to um thank some sponsors of this podcast and then i i'd like to ask you a kind of closing question rob is now uh curled into a little ball i think i'm a retreat my never trump safe room.

Well, we've got some great member questions. And look, here's the problem really ultimately for – I mean the problem that you and I are having is the problem that is reflected in the Ricochet membership. And even the Ricochet listenership is that there are people like me who simply cannot, cannot and will not vote for this man. I cannot bring myself to do it and none of the arguments mean anything to me. And I maybe – definitely it's a character failing on my part that I find when I know intelligent people that I respect who are making what I consider to be less than purely tactical defenses of Donald Trump, it's sort of an out-of-body experience. But it's good for me to hear it because we have a lot of members of Ricochet who feel

the same way as you do and a lot of people on Ricochet feel the same way as I do and we eventually have to sort of occupy roughly the same political space. We're all sort of – we're at least 70 percent or even at this point now with Trump, 60 percent aligned and that's better than 30 percent aligned. That said, speaking of aligned, we're nearly – we have these fantastic segues. I'm not even going to bother to do it. But I will say that we are grateful to be sponsored. This Ricochet podcast and a lot of Ricochet podcasts by Casper Mattresses. Get $50 toward any mattress purchased by visiting casper.com slash ricochet

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Casper understands the importance of truly sleeping on a mattress before you commit. So considering you're going to spend a third of your life on it you should try it and they're made in america which donald trump and dr larry arnott rob long and peter robinson all can agree is a good thing get fifty dollars toward any mattress purchase visiting casper.com slash ricochet using ricochet coupon code at checkout we thank them for their support. And now can we go to some questions? Yes, we can. By the way, considering I'm at this point, I'm never going to be invited on the Hillsdale cruise.

Oh, no, no. I think you would be an excellent. I have to say, everyone who goes on the Hillsdale cruise says it's. I can't say it's the best because there are brand loyalties here. But it is way up there. Way up there. Larry, Peter here once again. I just want to say that RushBabe49, that's her name on Ricochet, was on the cruise and she posted about you.

And she said, I had already decided to vote for Trump but I admit that I was flabbergasted at the points Dr. Arnn makes in his favor. He, Dr. Arnn, is one of the major influencers in my own universe, and he helped me feel better about my intention. Does this make a difference to anyone else? And I would like – Peter Robinson here would like to answer that question. Yes, it does. It makes a difference to me too. If I'm on Larry Arnn's side and not on Rob Long's side, if I'm on Larry Arnn's side, I think I can't be too far off. Larry, so people have posted some questions here on Ricochet and I'm scrolling. There's one question here. How do you weigh the question, which I can't seem to find at the moment, but it's from Cato Rand, I think. How much added risk of an ill-advised war are you willing to take in exchange for the chances of repealing Obamacare increasing by 10%? How do you weigh

a 25% improvement in the chances of TPP passing against a decreased likelihood of reigning in the EPA? I could go on asking questions like these until long after I'd run out of allotted words. In other words, Larry, this goes right back to what you said at the beginning of your time with us. Prudential judgments. Can you address the importance of making prudential judgments of sifting of the way we should think about our responsibility as citizens in this democracy and the inability of some of us to like donald trump let alone to give him our hearts the way we did to ronald reagan how do we think about our duties in an election in which both candidates leave many of us not only cold but disturbed, uncertain, unhappy. So let me reply by saying first of all, I support you guys and I will say that I like Casper mattresses.

I bought one for my daughter, younger daughter, and she loves it. The second is Rob Long can come on the cruise. The third is I don't think I said anything in public on that cruise about Donald Trump, although I did talk to that particular woman whom I know because we had dinner. And we don't – You and Martin Luther, dinner table conversation gets written down when it comes from you. Yeah, that's right. The reason Rob can come is we don't – the Hillsdale Cruises are not full of contemporary politics really. We talk about things that are abiding and eternal.

Now about your question, prudential judgments. any reason to believe that the likelihood of war is greater with Donald Trump than with the previous Republican candidates since Reagan. I even think there's some reason to think there'd be less of it. I'd be worried about it if there was greater reason to think it. I think we've had a lot of war from people who ran by, including by Republicans, by people who ran for office saying, for example, George W. said he wasn't going to do nation building. And then he went and tried to build one. And, you know, I admire him for that in a way. And it's amazing how successful it's been compared to what I thought it would be. And it hasn't been very successful.

So, yeah, I don't know about that. And about the prudential judgment, you know, of course, sometimes some of the, you know, I have been attacked by friends of mine for refusing to criticize Donald Trump or for saying once I thought he might be, I think I said he was, I think, I think I quote, I said, I think he's a good and decent man. And I did take that back because I don't know him. He's hard to know. But I said it because I was under the impression of a bunch of stuff that I had read about him lately by his children and by people who work for him. And I do know a couple of people know him pretty well. And what I really believe, and I amended my statement, was there's a lot of testimony on both sides about that. And I'll also add that I – remember this point. silly gooses like rob long is because is because uh donald trump would be the first person elected to the oldest constitutional office in history as his first public service there's profound reason for doubt i get that right and and that's one reason why I you know, I like the things that I like about Donald Trump.

I discovered them between August of last year and February of this year. And I came to admire some important things about him. And I was tempted to vote for him, but I didn't. And the reason was that reason I just gave. And I think that's serious. And so I can understand people having big doubts about it. And so I have not been attacking the never Trumpers except to call them silly gooses. I think one of the points buried there, which I think – I mean where I think we agree is that – is the war thing. I think any fair – any fair – I mean he may not know what the nuclear triad is. He may not be interested. He may not be interested in a whole lot of things. Like any fair assessment of the likelihood between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton of who's going to take us to war, who's going to be more apt to use military force, I think it's clearly Hillary Clinton.

I mean whether you agree with their use of force or not, it seems highly unlikely that she won't be even more overtly bellicose than Barack Obama who was in a prodigious use of drones, et cetera. I mean I can't vote for the guy and there's a whole lot of things wrong with him and I don't admire him. But I also think this is – the sad part of this is that areas in which he clearly is – if you don't – if you want to caution on war, he clearly is um if you're if you don't if you want to caution on war he clearly is um superior to hillary clinton so the sad part of it is rob that he is the better candidate and you know that and you still can't bring yourself to vote for him no that's that fair that's not no maybe for rereading directly from your dream journal, Peter. No, I – I just had to say that because Larry plays so fair.

I had to come in with a quick glancing blow. All right, I'll fall – go ahead. But I feel like that is a problem, that if you – even if you're a Hillary Clinton supporter, which I find so bananas, the idea that she's not going to – I mean if you're the peace candidate, the no-war candidate, and I also agree with Trump and agree with a lot of republicans that an America first – or not America first but a rigorous assessment of what is in our national interest before we act abroad, certainly militarily, is in order. I don't think you can get that from Hillary Clinton. I mean I don't think – I don't think any sane person would say that. And I really don't think that Donald Trump, despite his off-the-cuff remarks – I mean I hope – his off-the-cuff remarks about why don't we use our nuclear weapons would even use them.

I think he would not use them and I don't think he wants to send any troops into war. Now, that may be a failing ultimately. We can't predict the future to run after all to make a kind of summary statement. But first I'd like to observe that Dr. Arnn, my old friend Larry, has led Rob Long to a position in the last 25 minutes in which Rob Long makes a summary statement in favor of Donald Trump. I haven't heard that in – That's how bad Hillary Clinton is. That's how bad Hillary Clinton is. There we are. Yeah, and that – and I will say this. First of all, whatever one thinks about Hillary Clinton's character, she is the leader now of a force that has been growing in America since the late 19th century. It took over a party in the Wilson administration. It became the majority party in the Franklin Roosevelt administration, and the government has grown to the place now where it is the major force in elections themselves.

And the outcroppings of lawlessness that are common now in the Obama administration, they are just the latest fruit of all of this. And I fear that. I fear it for the college where I work, but I fear it in general for all the citizens of America. And so that seems to me a fundamental point. And I also think that the Republicans have been guilty since Reagan of advancing that thing in some important respects.

And so the key thing I like about Donald Trump is that he denies in a very powerful way that he will do that any further. In fact, he makes sweeping statements that he's going to cut that way back. And he seems to be compiling a list of stuff he's going to try to cut. So that seems to me the key question in the race. And the question of the characters of the two, you know, I imagine, I read this thing about Hillary Clinton a long time ago by Michael Kelly in the New York Times Sunday magazine, and it made me think two things about her. I invite people to go.

It's called St. Hillary. It made me think two things. She is such a well-meaning person, and also one should be frightened of her. I am. Dr. Arnn, president of Hillsdale College we thank you, I personally thank you because you have led Rob to a place where I have not seen him in weeks and weeks and weeks but we, exactly

we thank you, and now go run Hillsdale, but we want more of you, Larry. Okay, good. It's great to talk with you. I'm fond of both you guys and I'm glad to talk to you. Thank you. Thanks for coming on. Take care.

Take care. Bye-bye. Well, that was very, very useful for me. I still feel weird and sick inside, i that's very useful um uh i'm i'm you know as you know i'm as i've been moving closer and closer to the swirl of justifications for never trump i am still there um very much so but uh i know i'm i'm uh renewed energy and and uh and renewed energy and – I wouldn't say enthusiasm but I would say interest in picking up the thing and looking at it from the other side just for a minute. It's always helpful to do that. It is always helpful to do that.

But the weird thing is that we agree so fully on her. Yes, do we ever. Last night at this dinner at Manhattan Institute for Heather McDonald's book. We've got to have Heather on. The book is fantastic. Give us the name of the book again. Let's plug this book. It's called War Against Cops.

It's really great. It's riveting. A lot of – so the L.A. people, our old friend Drew Klavan, Troy Senec was in from New York. And Owen Brennan was there. And my friend Joe Stewart, who was a reporter from L.A. Weekly, was there. And it was a really great, great crowd. Mike Potemra was there, who's Jill Stewart who was a reporter from LA Weekly was there. And it was a really great, great crowd. Mike Potemra was there who's like – has moved to LA. Oh, yeah.

Has he really? Yeah. He told me. He's been here for a year. And it was the feeling. There were some very pro-Trump people there. There were some very anti-Trump people there. I would really agree more than Hillary that Obama has been a disaster in ways that can barely be quantified, right? I mean we quantify the Obama presidency the way we do every presidency, unemployment and economic growth, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

But the unquantifiable ways are probably worse and I think weirdly, the unquantifiable ways in which a president succeeds or fails are more at his doorstep than – legitimately at his doorstep than the quantifiable ways. I mean you could make an argument about business cycles. You could make an argument about the world economy. You could make an argument about a lot of things that are out of the president's hands. Creating a culture of the Department of Justice and with your celebrity aiding and abetting a cop-hating, law and order-hating culture, literally distorting and lying about how many cops are shot, who's killing them, how many black people are shot, and who's killing them. If black people are shot and who's killing them if you're a police officer in america you are more likely to be shot and killed by a black assailant than you are if

you are a black person being shot and killed by a cop i mean there's just these are not compatible the numbers are way way distorted and then we i don't want to preview the book but there is this sense I think and I think there's a sense in a lot of – I mean maybe that's one of the reasons why people like Larry and Trump supporters, small supporters, gravitate sometimes to talking about Trump as the guy they wish he – the guy in front of all the people, the guy who's going to turn the tide back against political correctness, all that stuff. These are unquantifiable things and I believe unreliable things about it. But irrespective of that, unquantifiable things because the unquantifiable things that have happened in this country in the past eight years have been so incredibly rotten and and and i mean rotten in the sense of like deep-seated rot that sets in and you don't know it's there until it's too late i would agree with i would agree with all of that i would agree with all of that um larry what i love about larry is the gentleness the gentleness with which he speaks, but also the firmness with

which he roots his thinking in principle, in American history, and even frankly, in research. He took seriously finding out about Donald Trump and assigned some bright kid to go do the research and bring him papers to read and so forth. So not to belabor the point, but all that Larry was making was a very modest claim, which is not that Donald Trump is the second coming of Ronald Reagan, not that Donald Trump is even a very good candidate. Larry admitted that he voted against him in the primary, but that Donald Trump on balance would be, in Larry's judgment, a better president than Hillary Clinton. And what strikes me as impressive – that's my own feeling as well. But what strikes me as impressive is how you can make a very close prudential judgment or at least a prudential judgment that recognizes that both candidates have terrible flaws and still insist upon it very firmly.

That strikes me as an impressive datum, the work of a very impressive mind. Me like Larry Arnn. That's the shorter version. That's the shorter version. All right. I believe that. Hey, by the way, Mr. The Republican.

Go ahead. Go ahead. The Harry shape thing, which we have to do. But I believe two things. One, I believe that it's going to be a major defeat in November. And two, I believe that people like Larry Arnn and Peter Robinson and me and the Never Trumpers are going to have to figure out

how to put it behind us and think about 2018 shoring up the House and the Senate. And to me, that's the most important thing. I just do not see a future just as a sheer question of numbers for a Donald Trump presidency. I see a future for trying to figure out in exile what we really believe, which is something we've been doing before.

So I'm not as depressed about that I suppose I should be. But I'm also not depressed about Harry's shaved – hey uh peter do you have to do harry shaving oh i am i'm so sorry i i know i mean transition like that really makes me miss james yes i did get the harry new harry shave and they got a new thing they sent a new kid it's fantastic personal testimonial time of a kind because i'm such a sweet dad i got a razor for each of my sons the new the new uh right the new one yeah it's going to describe in just a moment because you've got the copy in front of it and they love it they love it so i can tell you that getting harry's for your for the college kids in your life is a good move and you know i i even like the little tiny little plastic box that the blades come in. It's all beautiful designs.

It's fantastic. Harry's Shape. We have – they are sponsors of not just this Ricochet podcast but a lot of them. We've partnered with Harry's to give you $5 off your first purchase with promo code Ricochet. You'll be hearing about a lot of promo code Ricochet. Go to harrys.com right now. Enter code Ricochet at checkout to claim your offer. That's harrys.com.

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Harry's five-blade razors now include a softer flex hinge for a more comfortable glide, a trimmer blade for those hard-to-reach places, a lubricating strip, and a textured handle for more control when it's wet. We've already talked about how much i love it they are great they are really great and they come to you they send them to you you don't have to the half an hour you wait at cvs to me and this is what i say you know why you have to wait a half an hour peter because they're expensive yeah they raise the price they raise the prices and then they make you wait if they're that expensive shouldn't they you know shave you they should come and shave me in the morning. By the way, small point,

but again on Harry's, I found myself in, this is the sort of thing that happens in Northern California. I found myself at a dinner in which the conversation went this way, that way, the other way. And lo and behold, one of the people next to whom I was sitting

was an investor in Harry's. Oh, wow. That's a very Silicon Valley place. So he explained one reason why it's important that they bought their own razor blade factory. Remember we say – Germany. Week after week, they bought their own factory in Germany.

And it's not simply so that they can control the manufacture of their own blades. It's another way of keeping prices down because it turns out there's all kinds of intellectual property impounded in the manufacture of razor blades. And when they bought this factory in Germany, they bought all kinds of – they don't have to pay huge license fees to use certain manufacturing processes. They bought the factory and they also bought the rights to a whole bundle of intellectual property and that's a way of keeping the prices down. They're not paying licensing fees. I'm sure there's an EU such thing there, I think.

Probably, probably. But isn't that interesting? I thought you would – the business mind of Rob Long never quite stopped turning. I thought you would find that interesting. That is interesting. I mean I feel like that we – yeah, there's something to explore there. Quality is always 100 guarantee with harry's razors if you don't love your shave harry will fully refund you

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Can we just change the subject a little bit? Go. Can I just rant one second on the Olympics? Go. Go. Are you watching them, Peter? I'm watching them in the evening, yes. I don't have it on the background.

The coverage is terrible. It's always terrible. I couldn't agree more, but you will be, all I have is the sense that it's not working this year. You will be, you'll have a professional analysis.

The problem is, it's not that it's not working, it's that it's working too well. They've worked on it too much. So everything feels, you have to remind yourself you're watching a sporting event that is taking place and that the outcome is not, has not been determined. The level of production,

I mean, for me anyway, I mean, that's one of the things I hate about NFL. They watch the NFL now, there's so much camera work. You really feel like you're watching a play. It looks like, they look like actors on the field, the drone cameras and the swooping midfield camera and all that stuff. Everybody loves it. I just feel like, what am I watching? I'm watching a show. So the coverage and the chit-chat is terrible.

The best, I think most glowingly uplifting and also kind of depressing but in a way useful piece about the Olympics was written by our old friend Kevin Williamson. We will link to it. I should have linked to it on the site. It's fantastic. He writes about Simone Biles. Simone Biles is a young gymnast who is sort of breaking all sorts of records. And she's – this is her first Olympics. She's going to be there for a while.

She's going to be Michael Phelps figure, right? And her personal story is that her dad disappeared and her mom was on drugs and so she was raised by her grandparents. And they took her to a gymnast event, a gymnastics event at some point, kind of what would traditionally be late in a gymnastic career athlete's life. And she fell in love with the sport and now she's at the Olympics. And that's very uplifting and it's an extremely uplifting story. And it's a story about the importance of family and the importance of having an intact family. And the dangers of all sorts of other arrangements. Being adopted by your grandparents is probably the closest thing you can have.

Right. It also reminds you that how – I mean how – because of the sort of progressive decay in society, in the government, in our structures, in our institutions, the idea that we have these ossifying, crippling welfare state institutions that have like wreaked havoc in many ways on the American family, especially the African-American family. Almost exclusively, let's be honest, the African--american no no no no there i will not agree have you just read this book about appalachia okay yeah the charles murray version is true that that is true that's right but in many ways that the the what's happening to um rural whites in appalachia yes result of what i mean it's following the same pattern a huge amount of government dependency a huge amount of government handouts, absolutely no interest in creating self-sufficiency. Because of all those things, how many Simone Biles are there or how many Mark Zuckerbergs are there who never went to the gymnastics event or the mercy of the administrations of a bureaucrat than raised by parents and given an opportunity to do something great. I mean that really is – there is no reason why Simone Biles should be an Olympic gymnast except for the fact that she has some God-given talent at it and was given the opportunity

to develop those talents. And if you believe that sort of Providence is whatever, sort of distributes these things equally, which I do, then how much waste is there? I mean the human waste of the liberal welfare state is incalculable. Incalculable. Incalculable. Literally incalculable. I have to remind people of that because I know they think that when I'm never Trump

that I'm – All I can say is it's usually up to you to make sure that you pull us out of the nosedive and make sure that we end on a happy, bright, cheerful note because that, of course, is showbiz craft. And you're not doing it this week. I will do it. Here's a bright, cheerful note. Go to our page.com. Become a member. Join the conversation.

Join the community. You don't feel like you have to post and comment the first time. You can read it and figure it out and then what I really would love people to do, which I think is so incredibly important, is join Ricochet. It helps us. We need 1,500 members. We're not there yet. We're barely at 10%. We really need you. But if you're going to share anything, share something – share your personal wisdom, your personal experience, something you've learned in your life and your work.

That is the – first of all, it's the most interesting stuff to me. So I'm going to – Yes, I agree. But also that is the most edifying to everybody and the most valuable because there's – as Ronald Reagan said, there's not a problem that this country faces that someone in this country is not solving right this moment. And I think that's true. How's that? Is that good? Beautiful.

Beautiful. You did it. What are we going to do, Peter? How are we going to make it? Am I going to make it? 80 days? Just hold on. Just hold on.

Uncurl yourself three times a day. Make sure you keep up your nourishment. Get a little bit of a meal. So just a little closing chit-chat here, 30 seconds worth. You're in LA and you're in show pitching season. I'm in LA. How is your life apart from politics? And I do know that you have a life apart from politics.

How are things going and what's up? Well, it's a weird time in the business but it's interesting. So I'm here. I've got about three or four projects I'm trying to get set up. My fantasy dream is to get them set up and then go to New York and then walk around New York and be a New York writer while I do these things. And so that's the goal. So we're sort of close and I've got a couple of projects I really love and one or two that are a little bit – need a little bit of work and I hope that I can – with a lick and a smile and shoe polish, I can go in and pitch my little ideas and then hope that nobody notices. Hey, wait a minute before they agree to pay me to figure it out.

So there's some things I figured out, some things I haven't figured out and my goal is to have them pay me before I figure it out. Hey, Rob, right after this – To grow an office is my goal, to grow an office essentially. Fifty years ago, the population of New York was about 8 million. Today, it's about 7.5 million. The population of California was about 8 million and today it's 35 million. Why do you want to buck that trend? Why are you – why do you want to go from California back to New York?

This is something deep in you. It's been going on for a couple of years now. Why? You know, I do like it there. I like it in the autumn. I like walking around. I think there's a lot of energy there. It's good. It's good for me. Look, I think New York is probably a terrible place to go. If you have this sort of day in, day out job you have to do or your kids to raise probably raise or any of that stuff. But for me, if I have a project and I know what I got to do and I know exactly how to execute it and I'm just going to really just get out there and do it, it's nice to have a change of pace.

A change of pace is nice. And also, I am really thinking – I know we have to wrap this. But there is something in New York. My little place in New York, I mean, it's the size of my garage, Peter. It's really – in LA. I think that might be pushing it. But it's great to have nothing to really – like everything gets down to like the little essentials. Like you think, OK, what do I really – I can't really bring this into the apartment because there's no room.

Whereas in LA, I can bring in a new sofa. I can put in five refrigerators. There's no – I guess plenty of room for everything. And there is something kind of useful about that. I was talking to a friend of mine and I was just sort of musing. Have you ever just wanted to like sell everything? He goes, yeah. And just like get a tiny, tiny little place that's nothing and just live there and not buy anything and not own anything.

Just own only what you want and only what you need. And there's something about that i think it's really you know you were the last man i would have figured would ever find monasticism well i'm not saying i would take holy orders i mean it was just yes but you're moving in that direction it's just remarkable all right robert and with no encouragement from you can you imagine that um this has been fun i mean it's fun when james is but every now and then when James is not here it's fun too he's going to hear that and it's going to be I'm going to be you know

I thought it was just excruciating James I am your friend I am your friend this podcast was brought to you by the great courses Harry's and Casper Mattress supporters of ours for a long time and we are really grateful if you have been been supporters of ours for a long time and we are really grateful.

If you have been a supporter of ours for a long time, we are also grateful. If you've been a listener and you're not a supporter, we would love for you to join. Great courses, Harry's, Casper Mattresses and a whole lot of Ricochet members and become a member today. Go to ricochet.com and please sign up. Look, you get a month free. It's absolutely no risk to you. If you don't like it, you can buzz off. But I suspect that you will like it.

And if you enjoy the show, please take a minute. Leave a review on iTunes. It kind of helps the show get a little bit more prominent display. But do that after you've signed up for membership. We need you to be one of the 1,500. It's the 1,500 that will really be the difference between a sustainable ricochet and a non-sustainable ricochet.

So don't wait. Do it today. Peter, this has been fun. It has been fun. I want to thank one last time the unflummoxable Dr. Larry Arndt who found himself first facing James and then facing you and remained as calm at the end as he

was at the beginning. And his splendid institution, Hillsdale College. Okay. I thank the man again. Rob, next week. Next week. A hot summer night. I feel like a net.

I've got to find my baby yet I need you to soothe my head Turn my blue heart to red Doctor, doctor, give me the news I got a bad case of lovin' you No pills gonna cure my ill I got a bad case of lovin' you Ricochet. Join the conversation. Mama, I ain't that kind of guy

Doctor, doctor, give me the news I got a bad case of lovin' you No pills gonna cure my ill I got a bad case of lovin' you He's loving you. I know you like it. You like it on top Hillary wants to abolish, essentially abolish, the Second Amendment. By the way, and if she gets to pick... If she gets to pick her judges, nothing you can do, folks.

Although the Second Amendment people, maybe there is, I don't know. But I'll tell you what.