The Ricochet Podcast - The Greatest Game

Episode Date: October 27, 2017

“It’s time for the Ricochet Poooodcaaaast!” If only we had Vin Scully to announce that the epic way he did earlier this week at Game 2 of The World Series. But this podcast ain’t too shabby either: leading off we’ve got the great Mollie Hemingway on that whole dossier controversy and batting cleanup, it’s power-hitter Pat Sajak on the greatest game, this series, and why baseball will always be the... Source

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It's time for Dodger Baseball. Mr. Gorbachev, tear down this wall. It's the Ricochet Podcast with Peter Robinson and I'm James Lilex. Today we talked to Molly Hemingway about the DNC dossier and National Treasurer Pat Sajak talks about the national pastime. Take me out to the podcast. Bye-bye. Welcome, everybody. It's the Ricochet Podcast number 376. No, just kidding. It's 375. I just wanted to make all the anal retentive completists have a heart attack there for a second.

I'm one of you. I understand. Don't worry. You didn't miss anything. We didn't resolve a cliffhanger. It's 375, and I got this far because it's brought to you by fine sponsors like the people at ZipRecruiter. Find out today why ZipRecruiter has been used by growing businesses of all sizes and industries to find the most qualified job candidates with immediate results. And we're brought to you by Texture. Ask yourself, why subscribe to just a couple of magazines when you can have all of your favorites on your smartphone or your tablet all the time for way less money? Well, with Texture, you get access to dozens for one low price. And right now, Texture is offering Ricochet listeners a 14-day free trial so you can get to know and love this app when you go to, texture is offering ricochet listeners a 14 day free trial.

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at the Tavern in the Square. Please join the Harvard Lunch Club podcast, Michael Stopa and Todd Feinberg and Michael Graham from Ricochet's Michael in the Morning Show and noted author and TV sitcom author Rob Long. That's right. This meetup is free for Ricochet members. Ten bucks for non-members. But if you join Ricochet at the meetup, we give you the $10 back with a deal.

Come meet your fellow members and non-members and see what all the fuss is about. This is going to be a lot of fun. So more of that, of course, at Ricochet.com. And happy third birthday to The Daily Shot. Congrats to Fred Kroll for keeping that up on a regular basis, and you can subscribe to that as well. That's it. I'm done.

Have a great time. My name is James Loddix. I turn this over to Peter Robinson. I said far too much already. James, how are you? By the way, on the meetup in Boston, of course, we all love and revere Rob Long. It's worth going for Rob. But I have had the chance now to meet Michael Stoppa.

He has business out here in California from time to time. And we all know from the podcast – I've been a guest on his podcast. We all know from the podcast what a charming and fascinating figure he is. He's also just brilliant. At some point, if you, I'm not quite sure how this fits into the ricochet. At some point, somehow, some way, we've got to have him explain a few trends in Silicon Valley. The man is just fascinating. You listen to him talk about politics and he's compelling, he's colorful, he's persuasive. And then you have to say, wait a

minute, this guy is also an MIT-trained engineer who is just brilliant. Anyway, if I were going to be on the East Coast, I'd make an effort to get to Boston. And the Tavern on the Green is that – no. What is it called? The Tavern on the Square. Tavern on the Square. That's for that meetup. Tavern on the Green is in New York City, a town, of course, noted for its verdant fecundity.

The last time we spoke, it was 75 degrees. It was spectacularly beautiful in Minneapolis. You posted that heartbreakingly beautiful picture of the trees ringing the fence to your backyard, all aflame, your beautiful new puppy just listening to this frozen in this almost RCA Victrola listening to his master's voice. And his master's voice was the sounds of autumn. How is it today? Well, that was then. Things have changed, as they ought to. This is not a –

Oh, you're not complaining about the early onset of winter. It's right and just, is it? I think what I was saying before, if you go back and listen to the tape, that I was praising it because we know how ephemeral it is and how quickly things can change. Now, I'm not happy about the fact that it's absolutely barren and godless outside and that it's sleeting and the snow is accumulating on the colorful leaves. Not at all. Not at all. It's too early. But on the other hand, we had a leaf-stripping, tree-stripping wind this week that just came in like winter's advance guard and did all the preparations.

And it's like somebody taking over your house and starting to prepare for a big feast or party that you didn't particularly order you know that something's happening so we had that it rearranged our minds and prepared us for this it's still too early it's not going to last that's the thing we know it'll melt we know we'll have our world back but it's a sign of what we're going to have for the next half wait a minute it's actually you're getting so it's actually piling up it's accumulating um uh just a little bit but not not not so much that's the thing i mean we can take it at this point if it doesn't accumulate oh bring it on bring two three inches of slush i don't care as long as it doesn't accumulate and if it does that's when your heart goes uh absolutely dead cold with a sluice of realization. Six months of this to come. But maybe not.

Hey, look, it's not like I'm stuck here. I can go elsewhere in America. America's great. Getting greater. Right, James? James, you are eloquent in every single circumstance. But I wish I would like to note for the record that there was a certain lightness of heart last week. And now we're talking about character.

All right. Right. Because this is the sort of thing that supposedly builds characters we're always telling ourselves keep the riffraff out which is an obvious nonsense um and builds character which is evidently not so every time you get in the highway in the winter so anyway here we are that's just a little bit of america that's a that's the minnesota part you talked about silicon valley that's another little part but it's very influential we had a post this week about, I believe on Ricochet, I'm trying to think who it was, who was talking about the big tech guys.

Oh, it's Beth Koukos. Are they stifling innovation? Is there something else yet to come? And it's an interesting piece because I hate Facebook. I detest them. I despise the influence that they have on my life and my business. And I don't even spend a minute of time there. Isn't that fascinating?

I don't spend any time on Facebook, but yet it rules so many of the things that I have to think about. Well, now, hold on. You just said something that surprised me. The effect Facebook has on your business. Well, you have a number of businesses, but you're talking about your blog. Is that correct? No, I'm talking about your web presence. Is that what you mean?

I'm talking essentially about the newspaper. Oh, I see. Okay, so fill us in. You feel that at the strip. Well, of course we do because Facebook is the means by which things are shared. It's the viral world in which things whip around and people click and add and share

and the rest of it. So we can take a look at our metrics, where people are coming from when they come to our site. How many come from Twitter? Vanishingly small. How many come from, oh, absolutely infinitesimal. I mean, we had one story blow up really big. We got 120,000 hits in a couple of hours. 105,000 of those hits came from Drudge,

and about 3,000 hits came from Twitter. People see a link on Twitter, they read the description of it, they figure they know the story, they move along. So people are accumulating sort of headlines in their head, which I mean, in the old days of a newspaper, did everybody read every story? No. But Facebook is the main driver of these things. And I mean, I spend no time there and I constantly have to worry about whether or not we're shaping our presentation to appeal to the algorithms of Facebook. That to me is... I got it. Thank you. I don't like being their product

and I don't trust them at all. Apple I love, but I don't know what the hell they're doing, frankly, with a lot of things. Cars. Great. That's what I want. A car. And the other one is... Who was the fourth?

Amazon. Amazon? No, no. LinkedIn. We're all worried about LinkedIn taking over our lives. No, I'm kidding. Yes, Amazon, which has managed to position itself as the friendly one of the bunch that wants to sell you things and has got this nice sort of your friend's cute sister Alexa voice doing things around the house for you.

I'm not scared of Amazon. Isn't that interesting enough? I wish Apple would get it together. I'm resentful of Facebook, and I'm scared of Google. How does that sum up the future? That sounds – the strange thing – all right. Sitting here right in the middle of Silicon Valley, what's strange about that is you are voicing in Minneapolis on a snowy day exactly what I hear many friends out here on sunny days. It's California.

It's almost always sunny out here. The same fears that I hear them voicing. And so Pethokoukis is on to something. gigantic firms, you've named them Google, Amazon, Apple, Facebook, which have every single one of those companies has over $100 billion in cash. And every single one of them is continuing to grow and grow and grow, in particular in the business that you and I love. And I think, James, at some basic level, you and I have never wanted to do anything other than be in one way or another journalists. The business model for journalism as we understood it, which is to say dominated by newspapers, print journalism dominated by newspapers and magazines has utterly collapsed.

And the statistic that I find so striking is that last year, I'll get this a little bit wrong, but it's something like advertising fees to Google were something like three times advertising fees to Facebook, and advertising fees to Facebook were bigger than all the advertising in all the newspapers and all the magazines in the country combined. The dominance is total. And it wipes out journalism at a local level. Not only at the local level, but neither Google nor Facebook, as far as I am aware, spends a penny on investigative reporting. All the expenses of real reporting and real news gathering is still taking place out in the newspapers and the magazines, but the profits are being shifted to completely different entities.

So we can't keep this up. And the problem here is, I think you and I would agree, we don't want to start sounding pompous about journalism, particularly since we spend so much time and really believe it, banging away at the failings of the mainstream media. But reporting matters to democracy yes and reporting is in danger all right right no you're absolutely right i mean i've always been a fan of blogging and what bloggers can do and what independent journalism can do you don't necessarily you don't have to go to j school and get credentials in order to be somebody who is who can keenly report on the events of the day.

But this supplements a model in which there is an organization staffed with people who are paid on a regular basis to do things that do not yield something that makes for the click of the day. I mean, we're always in the newspaper business. We're looking for those things that will get us 50, 60, 100,000 hits. That's great because that helps us survive. But it pays for the longer-range things that may not have that sort of an impact that are important to a community. I mean, we have this long series about police officers who've been convicted of violent crimes and are still on the force. Is that an interesting topic? Would you be interested to find out how many people?

Of course. How many guys slugged their wives and were still carrying around a badge and a gun? Right. Well, it takes connections. It takes time. It takes dogged research and all the rest of that to do these things. And we managed to turn out at the paper. I say we when it's them, not me.

They managed to turn out at the paper long pieces of substance that are essential for understanding the community that nobody else would do. So that's why I mean, but we have to adapt to the realities of the new market. That's all there is to it. This is the new world in which we live, and we have to make ourselves valuable to people. So anyway, that's another topic, and we should probably have somebody from journalism on to discuss this. But I just want to say here, without any segue whatsoever, because that's the new style. I'm laying down a marker. Right.

I'm just drawing a bright yellow line twixt what I said before and what I'm saying now, because this… Wait a minute. I just want to follow. We've gone from brilliant segues to brilliant anti-segues. We're now in a bizarro world. All right, go ahead. I just want to follow this've gone from brilliant segues to brilliant anti-segues we're now in a bizarro world all right go ahead just want to follow this go ahead because ladies and gentlemen this is a commercial and it's for blinkist now the world's most successful people have one thing in common and it's not a high q they're hungry for knowledge continuously seek self-improvement and they're reading and learning every chance they get. Sound familiar? Well, if you're one of those people, you might be interested in, no, you will

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And we thank them for going to Blinkist.com slash Ricochet. And now we bring to the podcast an old friend and insane person. Molly Hemingway. She's senior editor of The Federalist and contributor to Fox News. Once upon a time, she was a Ricochet editor and podcaster, and she's

insane. Molly, according to Jennifer Rub rubin you're insane oh really i didn't realize i'd won that honorific uh so people were tweeting back and forth and i believe that somebody retweeted something that you'd written about how now the narrative has flipped on the russia uh story and it's back of the dems and they said that this position that the russian narrative against trump has flipped on the Russia story and its back of the Dems, and they said that this position that the Russia narrative against Trump has flipped is insane. So explain two things. One, what's happened, and two, why exactly some people on the right, purportedly on the right, seem to be pushing back on the idea

that the focus really was and should be on Clinton and collusion and not Trump at all. Oh man, it is such a lovely and complicated story. But the big picture would be for the last year, we have been hearing a narrative about how Donald Trump colluded with Russians to steal the election. And there hasn't actually been a lot of evidence to support that. There have been so many really interesting leaks and whatnot and stories surrounding it, but not any actual supporting evidence that we've seen at this point, at least, that that's what happened. And for people who have been skeptical of that narrative, they've been noticing something else, which is this seemed like a coordinated thing between Clintonites, Democrats, some people in the intelligence services, the media were pretty receptive to all this. And they were coordinating this narrative about Trump and Russia. And to find out what we found out this week, which is that in fact, that whole dossier,

which is the whole basis for everything about the Russia Trump collusion narrative, was funded by the Clinton campaign and the Democrats, and they lied about it for a year, and that this dossier itself was using a foreign spy who paid people to pay Russians at the Kremlin. I mean, this is according to the dossier, that the sources were people at the Kremlin or people in the foreign ministry, high-level former, paid them for dirt or perhaps disinformation on Donald Trump. And that's been the whole thing we've been all wrapped up on. And to find out it was a Clinton operation all along kind of just changes your whole

perspective on it. Molly, Peter here. Just take a moment or two on the dossier. When did we learn that this dossier existed? And roughly speaking, because it's morning here in California and some people have tender stomachs, roughly speaking, what's in the dossier? Yeah, so it was a lengthy document that was detailing interactions between Donald Trump and Russia, according to these sources in Russia. The guy who put it together actually never went to Russia, but he had people in Russia who he was paying, who

paid people for the information. It includes all sorts of things. Just to get the timing, this was circulating in Washington. It was very well known. Lots of people in Washington had seen it during the campaign. Many reporters read it, but nobody felt they could break the story until roughly after the election.

Go ahead. Yeah, so the document included allegations of financial impropriety, sexual impropriety, a cultivation campaign by Russia, efforts to do business in Russia. So some of it is not nefarious and some of it is. It was not published even though it was shopped around to all these media outlets last fall during the campaign, which is when you use – So it's coloring perceptions in the media of the campaign, but the public wasn't aware of it. Right, and the reason why people didn't publish it, even though they talked about it and they gossiped about it on Twitter, was because it was unverifiable or, as we later learned once it was actually out, it was verifiably false in parts. The only person to bite on it was David Korn at Mother Jones, and he bit on it in October, and then it just kind of died. Nobody thought it was good enough.

So the real big distinguishing thing that happened was – Hold on a second, Molly. Didn't BuzzFeed after that say, well, it's being reported on so we can report on the reporting on? Didn't BuzzFeed... Yes, but the real big reason why they did that is because the intelligence chiefs told Donald Trump and Barack Obama about it before Donald Trump was inaugurated. Quickly, the fact that they did that was leaked

to CNN. And very few people knew that they did this, but it almost immediately, it was leaked to CNN. So CNN put up a story saying, this is such legitimate stuff that the intelligence chiefs are briefing the president and the president-elect. Within an hour, BuzzFeed published the dossier. So that's the course of events that happened. Right. And now what I'm trying, so we have this document, it's floating around Washington. It colors people's perception, it colors the journalist's perception of the campaign while the campaign is taking place. Trump gets briefed on it when he's president-elect of the United States within an hour or two hours of a high-level intelligence briefing for the president-elect, the fact

that he was briefed on this dossier is leaked to the press. It's reported on CNN. BuzzFeed prints the dossier. And so now the dossier is at the center of consciousness about Russian collusion. And the story is, where did this thing come from? Well, we're not quite clear, but it was paid for by Republicans who were doing opposition research against Trump during the campaign. And now we know, Molly, I'm sorry, I'm taking you back over this a second time because it is so astounding. Who actually paid for this thing?

And who actually paid for it or at least paid for big parts of it because they paid millions of dollars were Hillary Clinton's campaign and the DNC. Even though everyone associated with Hillary Clinton's campaign and the DNC is now claiming they had no idea they spent millions and millions of dollars on this opposition research that has been affecting the country for the last year. Well, go ahead. Go on. No, no. I was just saying, Molly, there's a quotation from you I just noticed in my Twitter feed here that you said on Fox News, I guess last night, or maybe night before

last, you're on Fox News a lot, but not often enough, even at that for my taste. Anyway, you wrote, this is a profoundly vindicating day. May we suppose that all of Washington agrees with you? That's my question.

Because of what David Korn said about what you remarked upon i think this was the twitter exchange where jennifer rubin said you were insane uh corn said this is deeply wrong the we use the full quote that he's responding to you by you is this is a profoundly vindicating day it turns out the clinton campaign was doing what it accused the trump campaign of doing and here's what corn Korn said. This is deep. Wow. This is deeply wrong. He said Dems paid to research Trump-Russia connections.

Trumpers met secretly with Kremlin emissary, learned of a covert Russia plan, and still denied Putin was cyberattacking the U.S., thus providing cover for the assault. Okay, so think about what they're saying here. What they're saying is that this one meeting where certain people on the trump campaign met with a lawyer who was actually trying to get rid of the magnitsky so that's right that's okay we know about that um that just taking that meeting because she told them she had dirt on clinton is treason and collusion well that woman

was working with fusion gps was working on a Fusion GPS plan, which was to undermine these Magnitsky sanctions. She was just working with them. I mean, she was working on the same project. Here, the Clinton campaign and the DNC actually hired that firm, Fusion GPS, which was funded by people that are Putinites and close to the Russian oligarchs or Russian oligarchs themselves to undermine the campaign. And what they did in doing this, in hiring this firm, was they worked with Russia by their own admission. You know, the dossier itself says source A is a guy in the Kremlin. Source B is a foreign, is a defense minister or someone in the defense ministry or foreign ministry, I forget. Source C is also like a high level intel person. So by their own admission,

they're working with Kremlin operatives and Russian operatives to spread dirt on Donald Trump. Okay. And they're paying for it to the tune of millions of dollars. And that's not bad. I mean, I actually, by the way, personally, I think it's fine to get dirt wherever you want to get it. And I was and that is not what we heard in June when the story of this one meeting that didn't produce anything was was out. But I want to follow up on that one meeting, because what Korn says here, I think he conflates intentionally something. He said Trumpers met secretly with Kremlin emissary. We'll say that's Ms. Magnitsky there. And then he says, learned of a covert Russian plan, which makes it sound as if they met with them and learned of a covert Russian plan on the spot as opposed to Junior sitting there with his eyes shining and the rest of the guys looking into their fingernails. Let me say that's – she did promise – or somebody was promised that they might have dirt on Hillary.

They never got any dirt, but they were told – that's what he's alluding to. You were told that they had dirt. And that they didn't like her. And you didn't say anything. Well here we have. On the other side. You paid for dirt. Sourced to Kremlin operatives.

So you know that they're. You know you're part of the operation. Then when you're actually paying for it. And publishing it. And pushing it out. Right. But and again. I'm going back to what Corn is saying here.

How they're shaping it. Now this just may be him. Because you know. When you know everything about this. And when you type it out. Right. But I, and again, I'm going back to what corn is saying here and how they're shaping it. Now this just may be him. Cause you know, when you know everything about this and when you type it out, sometimes you, you, you make assumptions about the connections that other people make. But if the Democrats are saying they met with the emissary,

learned of a plan and still denied Putin was cyber attacking the U S that's what he says, which makes it sound as if Trump people met. That's ridiculous. Learned, learned of a Putin inspired cyber attack and then denied it providing him covered that's that that's an utter mischaracterization of what actually happened isn't it molly not just of what happened but also of what information plan they were running the whole

time using the kremlin you know so the, so that's the audacity of it. Like I said, I'm fine with people talking to Russians or whoever they want to for information. But if your entire information operation is that doing so is traitorous or treasonous, that doing so undermines the very foundations of our democracy to spread any information from the Kremlin would be, you know,

something that you should be perhaps killed for. And then you're saying all this while running that operation yourself. It's just unbelievable. Molly, Peter here again. State of play right now. What's happening now and what happens next? And in particular, here's what's penetrated to me in California. You'll have far more because you're right there and you're paying close attention to this.

But we have Devin Nunes, Republican chairman of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. That is to say, the committee most directly responsible for overseeing American intelligence operations in the House of Representatives has requested and requested and requested from the FBI information concerning this dossier. And the FBI has refused to comply. The same committee has also subpoenaed materials from Fusion GPS, the company that the DNC,

or I beg your pardon, the Clinton campaign paid or through which the money ran to the former British spy, to the Russian operatives to put together the dossier. And Fusion GPS is defying a subpoena from this committee and, in fact, has taken the committee to court. And so, I mean, maybe I'm misreading it, and please tell me if I am misreading it, but I find this staggering. Article 1 of the Constitution of the united states deals with congress we have congress trying to find out what's happening and they're being defied by fusion gps fair enough a dirty rotten stinking company as best i can tell i mean not fair enough

but not that so they'll but by the f Okay, fill us in. It's worth thinking about why the FBI is reticent to share what's going on with this dossier. And that is that we know from all these anonymously sourced reports, if you believe them, that the FBI tried to pay for this dossier, tried to actually take over the oppo campaign that Hillary Clinton was running and pay this spy to keep digging up dirt on an out party, major parties, presidential nominee. We know that they used this dossier. They presented it to a FISA court and apparently claimed that it was a much better intelligence product than we now know through just looking at it to secure a warrant to spy on members of the Trump campaign. They used this piece of garbage in a secret court to obtain a warrant to spy on not only American citizens, but American citizens who were engaged in a campaign for the presidency of the United States. That sounds serious to me.

Let's clarify for everybody taking notes. They presented it to the court. Did they get a FISA warrant based on the dossier? One of the things that's interesting about this whole Russia story is that the only illegal things that we've found out about are illegal leaks. And one of the illegal leaks is anything about a FISA warrant. You are not supposed to leak anything. So it was illegal to let us know that there even was the securing of a FISA warrant against Carter Page. And I want to be clear, too, that because of this shoddy dossier, which claimed that Carter Page was a major part of the campaign, they thought they were spying on the campaign with him. It turns out he actually wasn't in any way a big part of the campaign, but in their mind, they were spying on the campaign. At LiveScoreBet, we love Cheltenham just as much as we love football. The excitement, the roar and the chance to reward you. That's why every day of the festival, we're giving new members money back as a free sports bet up to €10 if your horse loses on a selected race.

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And they might have also used it to re-up some spying on Paul Manafort, which is more dangerous if you care about separation between the intelligence agencies and political parties because Manafort would have been in more contact with Donald Trump and other key operatives. And we don't know what they did to protect the politicians or the Republican Party from their spying campaign. So that's why the FBI doesn't want to answer questions because it looks really, really, really bad. It looks like Nixon times 100 bad to be using the powers of the surveillance state to target political opponents.

Last question, we'll let you go. Do you think that we're going to find out what happened and that there will be consequences? Okay, take a look. So the one thing that's really great is that Paul Ryan came out earlier this week and he basically said, I know you guys have been trying to stonewall Devin Nunes. It's not going to happen anymore. You're going to get us that information immediately. And they said, we'll get it to you within a week. So I assume they're busy scrubbing files and blacking out things as they prepare to hand stuff over this next

week to the House Republicans. And also to be commended is Senator Chuck Grassley. Grassley and Nunes are just these guys who take all this heat in the D.C. for, you know, they're, oh, they're crazy and they don't, they're not following our narrative on Russia. Well, they've just been steadfastly working to actually find out what's going on with Russian meddling because they actually do believe that there's Russian meddling going

on. They just didn't buy the Clinton crafted narrative of what that was. So they've been digging into financial documents. They have been just really trying to find, to get at the bottom of all this. And so they're both to be commended. Thanks, Molly, for joining us. Everybody can follow what she reads on Twitter, elsewhere, see her on Fox, and see exactly why some of the top conservative bloggers, according to Salon, are calling her insane.

Thanks, Molly. We'll talk to you later. Hey, Molly, Molly, just a word of reassurance. Really? Between us? You're not crazy. No. Hey, don't ruin my reputation, okay?

I like when people think this, okay? Say hello to husband Mark. Will do. Thank crazy. No. Hey, don't ruin my reputation, okay? I like when people think this, okay? Say hello to husband Mark. Will do. Thank you. Great talking to you. Bye-bye. Molly Hemingway, mad, bad, and dangerous to know. Stop right there.

This would be the spot where I attempt to craft something to get you into a commercial, but I don't do that anymore at all, at all. Instead, imagine a piece of paper that has been creased. You know how you can do it with your fingernails so you make it real thin and then it's easier to tear? at all, at all. Instead, imagine a piece of paper that has been creased. You know how you can do it with your fingernails so you make it real thin and then it's easier to tear? That's what I just did with this entire show. I made that particular texture in the paper. Oh, shoot, there I did it.

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One more time, 14 days, two weeks, a fortnight to try Texture for free when you go to texture.com slash ricochet. And we thank them for sponsoring this, the Ricochet Podcast. And now who's coming? Oh, God, all right if we must um uh we now go to patrick say jack is that how it's pronounced jack so jack or something say jack is that it i've never heard of him this guy pat happy birthday uh thank you thank Yes, it was yesterday, and I celebrated it by flying across the country. It was fabulous. But I appreciate that. They come very quickly, but it's better, as they say, than the alternative.

You know, Pat, when it comes to sitting down in one place and being exquisitely bored, a cross-country flight is one of those things. For some of us, baseball is also one of these things. Tell us why we're wrong. I just sound like Peter Robinson there. I've been planning that for years. Well, you know, I can't say you're wrong because we all have different expectations when it comes to our enjoyments. And people sometimes are attuned to something that goes a little more quickly. Look, there are games I've been to where they're three and a half hours, and it's a two-to-one game, but the catcher's gone out to talk to the pitcher 14 times.

They've made 22 pitching changes, and I'm bored, silly. And I've sat there with my son saying, I can see why people who don't like baseball don't like baseball because of this. On the other hand, the game the other night was a four-hour game, and I defy you not to have been riveted by it. It was that kind of game. So to me, it's not the length of baseball. It's the pace of play, as they say, and that's what they need to address.

They need to somehow limit those interminable delays between pitches. You know what they've done? They've done some research. Here's what's happened. They've done research that shows for these power pitchers, for all pitchers for that matter, if you can buy an extra 10 seconds between pitches, it actually rejuvenates your arm enough to have some effect on what follows.

And that's sort of what's driving things now. Pitchers are actually stalling to get a little extra time. There is a rule in Forrest that's not enforced. It's in effect about the length of time, but it's never called by the umpire. Anyway, so I'm not going to try to talk you out of being bored by baseball. If you are, then there's always other sports. For example, you can watch people kneel at football games. Or high a lie.

I'm more into high a lie. High a lie is good. High a lie is good. And you can bet on high a lie. Of course, you can bet on football, too. Pat, the score in Game 2 did not end as a Dodgers fan such as you would have liked. But the beginning of the game, listen, as a pro yourself, what was it like to see Vin Scully come back to Dodger Stadium and throw out the first pitch of Game 2? I'm not sure that the television captured the feeling in the stadium. It was one of the most electric moments, and it was a broadcaster.

When Vin Scully walked out unannounced to the crowd. Oh, it was unannounced. They didn't know it was coming. And he walks out, and he is the most recognizable figure in Los Angeles sports history. The place, I have never heard a noise, much less for a non-player. It was incredible. And he was utterly charming and funny and doing his own Vin Scully thing, talking. You know, he wasn't doing, I'm talking to a stadium.

He was doing what he always does. I'm talking to an individual. Doing that as he walked out to the mound. And then, of course, he brought out Jaeger and Valenzuela, and they did their little song and dance. But it was a beautiful moment. And, you know, you're talking about my birthday. I'm 71 years old. And I was five when Vin Scully started broadcasting.

So it's incredible, the span of time. And he could do it now if he wanted to. Vin would be the first to tell you he probably lost half a step, but he could have lost two steps and still have been better than just about anybody else. He was really terrific. You grew up in Chicago. Does that mean that you were a Cubs fan? I was a fan.

In the season championship, were you torn between the Dodgers and the Cubs? I was not, and I'll tell you why. I did grow up a Cub fan. I grew up a Cub and a White So a fan. In the season championship, were you torn between the Dodgers and the Cubs? I was not, and I'll tell you why. I did grow up a Cub fan. I grew up a Cub and a White Sox fan. Back in those days, there was no interleague play. I never understood why you had to choose one or the other. One was American League. One was National League.

I lived near Kiviski Park. I loved the White Sox, and I would come home from school every day and watch the Cubs. They had all their daytime games on television, so you grew up around that team. But about 15 years ago, I'm in my mid-50s, and I'm thinking, I've been dying with this team for over half a century. I said, here's what I'm going to do, Cubs. If you can't do it in 100 years, I'm out of here. I'm just checking out emotionally. And 100 years came and went.

It was 108 before they finally won. And I wish them well. I'm just checking out emotionally. And 100 years came and went. It was 108 before they finally won. And I wish them well. I'm happy for Cub fans. But I just checked my emotions at the door, and I said, that's it. And I moved on. So, no, if the Cubs are playing the Dodgers, I'm rooting for the Dodgers. And, again, they're my second choice. I'm happy when they do well. But I don't have an emotional draw to them anymore.

You're going to have a discussion, I think, soon. Pat and I are going to be at an event next week at which George Will will be attending. And George Will, I believe, never lost faith. I can remember George Will talking baseball, I think it was in the 90s, and he said, Be patient. The Cubs are only in their 97th year of rebuilding. That's right. I think he was at the game the other night.

He wasn't referred to, but I thought I saw a shot of him. In L.A. or in Chicago? In L.A. Uh-huh. And I think I did. I saw like half of his head. I only saw one of his eyes, and he must have been having a good time because it was almost completely open.

I'm pretty sure George was having fun. Okay. So today the teams get to rest up. The pitchers get more than 10 seconds to rest those arms. And then tomorrow, have I got this right? Tonight. Tonight. I beg your pardon.

Tonight, Saturday, and Sunday. Well, if the game, yeah, no, we know for sure it'll go at least through Sunday. The action shifts to Houston. Predictions? See, I can tell you're really getting into sports. When you say the action shifts, that's such a broadcasting cliche. It's really good, Peter. Vince Kelly would never have said that, would he?

No, he would not. That's the amazing thing. The guy was at it for almost seven decades, and he just never used cliches. No, it's true. And it's hard to avoid. It's all fresh. It's just amazing. Anyway, okay.

Anyway, so yeah, the action does shift. And in order for it not to go back to Los Angeles for game six, someone would have to sweep these three games, either Houston or Los Angeles. And I find that, I mean, either team is capable of doing it. I doubt that it will happen. They're just both really good teams. And this is like all short series. It's absolutely unpredictable. Both these teams have won over 100 games.

I mean, you saw the other night that neither team is going to go away easily. You know, and by the way, in the history of the World Series, which is, is James sleeping? In the history of the World Series... I feel like a college freshman taking a 7 a.m. class of the Second Punic War.

But do go on. In the history, James, in the history of the World Series, which is well over 100 years, there have been a total of 17 extra inning home runs. The other night, there were five in 40 minutes. So if you wonder if the ball is juiced, there may be your answer. But the great thing about baseball is that there have been so many games that you have endless numbers of statistics to constantly match or exceed, right? Well, sure.

Well, I can tell you need – I'm guessing you're a football fan because they play like, what, four games a year? And it's instant gratification. They lose a couple, you know they're done. And I like that. But I like – look, I like – oddly enough, my two sports couldn't be more different. I'm a huge baseball fan and almost equally big hockey fan. So I don't know how you explain that exactly. But anyway, to answer Peter's question, if there was a question, when the action shifts to Houston. You're a cruel man in your own way so jack you know i i think both teams left the last game

with with some questions that could make them uncomfortable for the dodgers their bullpen which had been exhausted absolutely unhittable whether they just hit whether they hit the wall because they've been used so much or whether they just had a bad night that's we have to be determined and also houston started hitting which it hadn't been doing and they hit well in their ballpark so if i'm los angeles i'm worried about those two things and for houston their bullpen which has not been very good in the playoffs although it sort of got the job done i mean even the guy who got the win in the last inning uh davinsky i mean he had a tough inning and he gave up a run that two of the three outs were absolute rocket shots that

happened to be caught so i that question hasn't been settled yet but they're really they're really good teams i hope it goes seven games just to annoy james so no i believe me i love the fact that this this is a thing beloved by many people i love when the twins are doing good because it gives me a meaningless feeling of civic pride. We have a beautiful stadium in a revitalized neighborhood into which people flock by the thousands to be disappointed. It's part of our culture. I get it. I love it.

I have no problem with people loving it whatsoever. I, this year, contrary to everything else I'm supposed to do about the NFL, started watching the Vikings again because we have a beautiful new stadium built on the grave of my old decking lot. vikings are doing good our defense is good and somebody has a robot who is that your new puppy in the back james i'm no no that's me that's that's not me it's my dog i'm sorry we have some we have some we have some painting going on and i

tried to go to the quietest part of the house but you have some you have some paint somebody's doing a portrait and the dog is objecting to the brushstroke it's absolutely all wrong for the face dog so so james let me ask you this do you have do you have nieces and or nephews yes do they refer to you as crabby uncle james oh no of course because baseball never comes up and uh only only subjects about which we can speak in interesting fashion uh actually well listen did i just sound crabby they're talking about how other people's enjoyment of baseball a little a little if we have to be honest and we're i would say yeah i would maybe maybe cranky is a better word. Okay, I'll take it. Yeah.

But I'm serious. No, I mean, I work at a newspaper. We've got teams of guys devoted to this sort of thing. And so I'm around people who are so steeped in the minutia and the details of it that even by osmosis, I get it. I understand that. No, I have no problem with anybody liking baseball. It's just the assumption somehow. Well, no, I mean, Pat, you're not assuming that people who don't like baseball ought to, do you? No, no, I don't. I really don't. I mean, it is a, there's a different,

it's a different mindset when you're watching a baseball game and it is, you know, the season is incredibly long. To me, that's what I love about the game. It has its ebbs and flows. The Dodgers, for example, who were on a pace to have the best record in the history of the game and still won 104 games, had a horrible period where they lost 16 out of 17. How does that happen? And yet, they still, over the course of 162 games demonstrated you can't it's the kind of game where you can't just have have a hot streak and that's going to carry i mean uh there

are all kinds of storylines that take place over this long period so it is a grueling marathon enough to be like life sooner or later every there you go every single season is going to get to every single team no matter what They're going to have rough patches. Pat, stars. Kiki Hernandez and Yaziel, if I'm pronounced, I'm sure I'm mispronouncing it, but Puig. Is Puig not the coolest character in the city of Los Angeles at this point? Wow. When he cracked that homer in the 11th inning and he just calmly sat down the bat and jogged.

No? Oh, I agree. that homer in the 11th inning and he just calmly sat down the bat and jogged no oh i oh i agree and and i can understand why he gets under the skin of other other teams and other fans i get that but but he is fun the other the other night he made a uh he made a fairly routine catch in right field and there was a runner on second base who faked as if he were going to try to take an extra base and which forced uh puig to throw it a second and the guy got back easily but the camera stayed on puig and it was just this look as a kind of a hand gesture that said you would really think about running on me i mean are you what's wrong with you uh the other that when they, in their clinching game against, when they won their last series in the ninth inning, they were, there were two fly outs.

There was one to the left fielder, one to Puig in right field. And after he made that second out, he turned to the guy in center field. And he basically said, your turn, you're getting the next one. They got one left. We got right. Now it's me. He's just fun to watch. And I love Kiki. I mean, Puig is this huge guy who's so cool that when he hits a homer, that's just the way reality is supposed to be.

And then Kiki Hernandez, who knows he's good, and he's this short, wiry guy. He seems like a kid. And Kiki Hernandez, every time anything goes well, he's just so thrilled he can hardly contain himself. I love him. And he hit three in one of the playoffs. Anyway, it's very exciting despite the fact that I can – I think I hear James snoring in the background. But I'm looking forward to tonight. I will not be in Houston.

I will be watching these next three games from my home. But we'll be returning to the West Coast should there be a game six or seven. Last question. Yeah. Let's cast our eyes into the distant future. Do you think that we're going to have an America with baseball, football, and soccer? Or we're going to have a future with America with baseball and soccer? Or eventually, it's just soccer.

And if that's the case, is it still America? What? You know, I do. I have an odd. Your thing is about baseball, and you don't seem real excited about it. My thing with soccer has been from the time I was a kid, I've read stories every year about how this is the sport now for America and that we are rubes for not liking it.

And I'm sorry, we just didn't grow up with it. So, okay. And every year, it's the biggest game among kids. And so when they grow up, well, they grew up and they didn't care about soccer. They don't care about it. The reason it was big as kids is because parents could stick them out there and they could go get a sandwich because nothing happened by the time they ate and came back to see the game. There were two shots and nothing happened. But newspapers, well, the World Cup would come and now it's getting some trend. But for decades, you know, the L.A. Times and New York Times would devote sections to this

and tell us how wonderful, there was such a rooting section for soccer that being the contrarian I am, much like you, James, I've decided to hate the sport. Pat, here's my last question. Hold on, before you do, Pat Sajak, just a baseball fan, just criticized soccer for its lack of action in anything happening. I just wanted to put that out there. Well, not so much for that. I felt like I was being shoved down my throat in a way that I rebelled against. That's all.

Pat, this is an obligatory question. We've been talking about nothing but baseball, and it was your birthday yesterday, so you get to talk about whatever you want to talk about. Are you happy just to say, thanks, fellas, I'm off to start doing a little reading on the game tonight, or would you like to say something about politics? Well, are you just leaving that open, or do you have a specific – Totally. No, I'm done. That's the question. Something specific. leaving that open or do you have something specific i you know i um uh look there's no

there's almost nothing i can say that that we all haven't said or thought this we are living in an incredible incredible time we will never see anything like this again when i'm – yeah, exactly. No, everyone is behaving badly. And by the way, everyone – on the Democratic side, I don't know what they're doing. This – you know, this – Well, we're going to – go ahead. Yeah, they'll be celebrating Election Day. They're encouraging – you know, the resistance is encouraging all their people to literally go out and look up at the sky and scream on Election Day to celebrate, in quotes. Oh, I'm laughing but crying because the streets will be full around here.

And I will tell you, and, you know, this is – it's all anecdotal. But, you know, I think I know America pretty well. We've talked before Peter and James, I've met, I work with these people, these people from all these states all, all year round for 35 years. I know everybody from everywhere and I, and we don't have intimate relations, but I, but they're, they're, they're great folks, no matter where they from, they're fly over country people. They love our show. They love America. They're not racist.

They're not homophobes. They're not sexist. They're just good folks. And are there some of those among them? Yeah, I'm sure there are. And as we found in Hollywood, there are some among them as well. But if the election were, you know, there's a sense the left has comforted itself that they look at the approval ratings and they think it's just a matter of time. If they can't force him out of office, at least he'll be humiliated at the polls.

I'm telling you, if the election is held now and if he runs for war, barring a tanking of the economy, he will not only win, he will get a greater number of electoral votes than he got last time, and he will lose by a greater number of popular votes. And that will happen because New York and California are really galvanized folks. They're ready to take him down. So they've got to figure out – they need something beyond telling us how horrible this man is and how he's going to kill us all. And they've got to – but the more they're having screaming days, the worse they're going to do. There are a lot of people on his side who wish – who don't like some of the things he does and says maybe wish he wouldn't tweet quite as much. But even they're okay with that. But even those who feel that way are so resentful of the way they are looked down on and dismissed by the other side.

They really are and i'm reading i mean you know there's been a spate of stories recently uh from uh reporters from liberal sites who want to learn about you know let's let's open our minds let's go investigate let's go examine these people as if there's some lab specimens you know and they go right and they go out the far tour of america yeah and they go out and they find out oh wow they're you know they're they're decent people after all but the very fact that they think they have to go out and live among them you know as as if they're they're you know coming of age in samoa uh yeah well it's anthropology but you got to give the the former head of npr apparently went out on one of these anthropological tours and described himself in texas going to a gun range with a black guy, a Hispanic guy, and a Jewish guy, which, I mean, is a setup for a great joke

if you had a bar. But at the end of it, you know, he comes away fairly transformed, which often happens when you go out amongst the, you know, the hoi polloi and find they're not all squatting in the mud like a peasant in Monty Python. And even that peasant in Monty Python

had a pretty good analysis of the political situation. Pat, we want to thank you. America without baseball would not be the same. And I just want to say that. And I would not want to live in soccer America. I want to live in baseball America, even though I don't particularly like the game. And I trust you in what you've said is one of the reasons why I think I'm correct in that. Just as early evening television wouldn't be the same without Pat.

So we'll talk again soon, I hope, but thank you as ever for coming on this, the ricochet podcast. Thank you gentlemen. And I will see you soon, Mr. Robinson,

Pat, happy birthday. I will see you soon. I'm a little worried that George will, will stand in judgment on this faint hearted Cubs fan, Pat Sajak, but we'll, we'll work our way through it,

Pat. Yeah. Well, you know, we'll, we'll arm wrestle for it. It'll be fine. And I think I can beat George. Now, will you please go let the dog out? I will.

Thanks, guys. Bye. Thank you, Pat. Talk to you later. And that answers the question of who let the dog out. Pat Sajak let the dog out. Stop right there. Ladies and gentlemen, sit down, get ready,

because this, this is a commercial and you're wondering all right we had blinkist right we had uh we had texture who uh who was next uh well a to z zip recruiter is our final spot for the day and stay with us because after this we have to talk about why that screaming match that uh that screaming event pat was talking about is actually so actually quite uh quite relevant to relevant to one of your favorite books. Anyway, Zip Recruiter. Now, if you are in the hiring business, you know that quality hires keep your business moving forward, but you also know it can take a lot of time to find the right candidate for the job.

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That's right, free. Just go to ZipRecruiter.com slash Ricochet. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash Ricochet. One more time, the tribe for free, ZipRecruiter.com slash Ricochet. And our thanks to ZipRecruiter for sponsoring this, the Ricochet podcast. Pat mentioned the scream-in. Peter, you hadn't heard about the scream-in. I hadn't heard about the scream-in.

How that one had escaped my notice, I have no idea. the scream in peter you hadn't heard about the scream in i hadn't heard about the scream in how i how that one had escaped my notice i have no idea all these people are going to be expending their huge yang angst into the sky with these great shouts isn't there some word that they should all be chanting shouldn't they all be chanting goldstein goldstein because they're having a two-minute hate out of 1984. Oh, I'm sorry. I missed the reference. I thought you were going to go to I'm Mad as Hell and I'm Not Going to Take It Anymore. No, no.

Which movie was that one? That was Network. Network. Thank you. Thank you. This is what fascinates me about 1984 because it turns out in so many ways to have been a prescient blueprint for the future. But the reason – well, actually the reason well actually 1984 as orwell said was actually 84 inverted as 48 he was taking a deprivation but if you look at at all of the

attributes they're not frightening to us because big brother has not been imposed we have voluntarily assumed the duties of big brother we've put the listening devices in our house for our convenience. We have organized the hate meetings because the hate comes from our breast. It's not instilled from above. We are the ones who have decided, well, in collegiate circles and progressive circles, to destroy language in order to destroy the thoughts behind them. Now, that's probably what they won't say they're doing, but that's the general effect. In other words, 1984 turns out to be a volunteer effort that people have taken to with great enthusiasm instead of having it imposed upon them by oligarchical collectivism, as I believed it was called. Anyway, I just wanted to mention that. What's on your mind before we go, Peter?

What's on my mind? Well, what's on my mind? To be perfectly honest, this show is a perfect reflection of what is on my mind. What is on my mind is Devin Nunes, the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, and getting information from the FBI and Fusion GPS, which Molly already talked about i just consider that the outrage of the moment that the press it is just staggering that an arm of the government is stone stonewalling a congressional committee on a story which is both important and absolutely fascinating and for purely ideological reasons the press is doing everything it can to say ah yeah you know that's not really news. It's outrageous. That's on my mind. But what's on my mind for Friday, Saturday, and Sunday is also baseball. I'm going to be watching.

I doubt that I'll be able to, frankly, I'd rather hate to give you this much satisfaction, James, but I have to admit, I don't believe I'll have time to watch all of all three games, but I sure intend to dip into all three as time permits. So, outrages in Washington and the balm of the national pastime as it's going to be played in Houston over these next three evenings, that's what's on my mind.

I know what's on yours, Snow. Actually, football. I got just an email after my last column where somebody said, fake news correction needed. And you look at an email subject line like that and go, oh, God. Oh, please don't. Please don't.

And it was a joke because what I'd said in a column about one of the more... I'd mentioned the upcoming Super Bowl, which is happening here in Minneapolis, by the way. And I'd noted that the Vikings probably would. It's an offhand joke I made about the Vikings not being in it. And the fans took offense at that because they believe that they will be. Then it's possible.

I'd love for that to happen. But I'm credentialed for this sucker. You are? Oh, great. Oh, that's wonderful. It doesn't mean I'm going to get to go to the game, but it means that I will get to wave my holographic foil badge pass and walk past the suckers and go back. Because I haven't had a big pass like this since my convention days where you're part of the elect and the elite and you understand why everybody hates you.

So I'm looking forward to that because there's weeks and weeks of activities leading up to it as everyone comes to Minnesota and realizes it's cold and stays in the hotel. But that's going to be fun. So I'm thinking about that. I'm actually thinking about baseball a bit because usually the World Series coincides with the end of autumn here and now with the harshness I see outside my window,

I realize, as I said at the top of the podcast, we're in for it. We're in for it big. But I have one other thing that's been on my mind and I'm going to tell you what it is after I thank our sponsors. Our podcast was brought to you today by Blinkist, Texture, and Zip Recruiter. Please support them for supporting us.

Your basic New England listeners out there, you can get yourself to the Tavern in the Square in Boston, November 11th, 7 p.m. Meet Michael Stoppam, Michael Graham, Todd Feinberg, and Bob Long? Rob Long? Rob Long. He's got a book of sorts, and maybe he'll deign to come back on the podcast to discuss it. If you enjoyed the show, please take a minute to go over to iTunes and leave a review. The glowing review, you will no doubt believe, allows new listeners to find us, and it helps to keep the show going.

And please, podcast listeners, come on. $2.50 a month. The tier made just for you. It's cheap. You can contribute, and you'll learn and understand why ricochet is beloved amongst the people who are there i want to leave with this the jfk files are coming out and apparently a few are being held back which seems odd because you can't have full disclosure without having a few of them without everything coming

out because now the conspiracy people are going to say that the two or three documents lord knows what they have to do say um those are the ones that will explain everything and keep this preposterous cottage industry alive in perpetuity. I know who killed JFK, a calming nutbag named Lee Harvey Oswald. Correct, correct, correct. And Peter, you would say the same. I would indeed. It was the military industrial complex? Correct. Correct. institution, Paul Gregory, grew up in Fort Worth. And Paul's father was a Russian. And so there was a small Russian-speaking community, very small, as you can imagine, in Fort Worth, Texas in the 50s and 60s. And a fellow called Lee Harvey Oswald returned to Fort Worth after several years in the

Soviet Union with a Russian bride. And Marina spoke very little English and she was introduced into this Russian-speaking community to help give her friends and to help her learn English. And my friend Paul Gregory knew Marina and Lee Harvey Oswald very well. And for reasons that Paul explains in some depth, he has never had any doubt that Lee Harvey Oswald, who is an odd and disturbed character in Paul's personal experience, was the lone killer of John Fitzgerald Kennedy.

So I know somebody who knew Lee Harvey Oswald, and he has no doubt, and it seems to me the documents are not ambiguous at all. But you're right. You're right. There's still some documents that for whatever reason are being held back. You're right. Conspiracy theorists will go on and on and on.

Well, people love to have a conspiracy because it gives them the sense that they know something that's being held, secret knowledge that other people don't know. And now on the internet, it's ridiculously easy for these like-minded people to find each other and spin up each other's preposterous fantasies about the Las Vegas shooting. I mean, in 9-11, which was an actual conspiracy, people were convinced there was a conspiracy. I mean, there's a conspiracy. That's what happened. No, there was really this other conspiracy. And with JFK, it's fascinating. One lousy red rat does it.

And there actually was a conspiracy to turn it into the climate of hate that somehow – Yes, yes, yes. This incorporeal spirit that – You're right about that, James. There's your conspiracy, which was not intentional, top-down. It didn't have to be. It was just what everybody sort of – everybody on the progressive and on the left and on the liberal side, had to believe. Because otherwise, how many of your beloved ideas get shattered? How many of your preconceptions about the evils of the military-industrial complex get upended when it turns out to be?

Actually, like all the other malevolent forces in the 20th century, collectivism, be it left, be it right, statist collectivism, of which Lee Harvey Oswald was just a mad, crazy little crumb fragment that changed history forever. But that's another podcast. Thanks for listening, everybody. It's been great fun. Peter, I'll talk to you next week. James, hunker down, put a log on the fire. It's October 27th and it's winter in Minneapolis.

Talk to you next week. You're right, it is. When Wilpa will come And even in night You're right, it is. my please help us you'll find a cozy place by your place

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be happy in my please help us Happy in my blue hair boy. Ricochet. Join the conversation. guitar solo When weather will go And evening is night And wherever we'll go And even in the night

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