The Ricochet Podcast - The Impossible Dream

Episode Date: August 26, 2016

This week, another fair and balanced podcast we bring you quixotic Presidential candidate Evan McMullin. His campaign is a long shot, but his qualifications and demeanor are beyond reproach. Later, the WSJ’s Bill McGurn joins the show. Among the members of the WSJ Opinion Page, Bill is the only pro-Trump columnist and he makes the case for his candidate in his typical straight down the middle of... Source

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Did you say over? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? One of the things people love about you is you speak your mind, and you don't use a politician's filter. However, that is not without its downsides. What Boehner is angry with is the American people holding him accountable. If I become president, oh, do they have problems. They're going to have such problems.

That's funny. I don't know why that's funny. It's the Ricochet Podcast with Rob Long and Peter Robinson. I'm James Lallex, and today, Evan McMullin wants to be president. Bill McGurn defends Trump. Let's have ourselves a podcast. Welcome, everybody. This is the Ricochet Podcast, and it's number 317.

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For a great shave and an even greater price, go to harrys.com and enter the coupon code. You're right, absolutely, ricochet. I know you're waiting for me to say that. And, of course, we're brought to you by Ricochet itself, which is usually the sign where Rob comes in and tells you why you should give him shekels. Rob's not here. Not yet. He will be for a second.

So just let me tell you what he would say, which is if you haven't been to Ricochet in a little while and you're getting this podcast through some other feed, you've missed the new site, which is pretty incredible. Lots of new features, including groups, friending, tagging, and more. It's like Facebook, but without those annoying lefties just clogging up everything. And if you've been to other websites lately, you know that the quality of comments is horrible and that the design is horrible. The pop-ups, the cheap ads, the feeling that you've stepped into something that you really want to wipe off your shoe fast, none of that are ricochet because it's a quality product.

But it's not going to stick around forever if you don't help. We need more members. We need 1,500 new members this month. And our current count, well, there's a little product, but it's not going to stick around forever if you don't help. We need more members. We need 1,500 new members this month. And our current count, well, there's a little thermometer that will tell you how many, and you can add your number to it. So go to Ricochet.com, sign up, become a member, read posts like, Why I Left Ricochet and Why I Came Back. And once you do, you'll realize it's the sane, safe place for center-right conversation.

Did I say sane and safe? I don't mean to make it sound like we're some University of Chicago-style place where all the special snowflakes are coddled. Oh, wait a minute. They're not. Peter Robinson, have you heard that the University of Chicago is actually saying, sorry, this is a university. It's not a safe space and words may be said that may offend you. Ooh, has the tide turned? No, the tide hasn't turned.

But we've got – I feel like that – there was a poster when I was in college which was extremely vulgar but very popular. Lots of kids had it on their walls in their dorm rooms. And the eagle is swooping in on a little tiny mouse and the little tiny mouse mouse is standing there glaring at the eagle, looking defiant and holding up its middle finger. And that – forgive me for the vulgarity. Three minutes into the show and I'm already – well, you know Donald Trump is lowering the discourses. Rob will tell us when he joins us. However, that's the University of Chicago. What a great institute – what a great institution the University of Chicago is.

Somehow or other, maybe to do a little bit of sort of armchair demography, maybe being in the middle of the country, not in the New England, New York catchment area with all those old schools and media and not out here in California, maybe being in your part of the country, James, helps the University of Chicago remain sane and also, let's use the word, courageous, simply doing what academics ought to do, simply insisting that their university will do what a university ought to do, which is to search for truth and insist on freedom of inquiry and speech requires a certain amount of courage these days. So I have my feeling, maybe it's just because I'm feeling, well, I still haven't had my first cup of coffee. Maybe it's as simple as that and let's hope so.

I'm feeling pretty pessimistic these days and I feel, I view the University of Chicago's announcement as an act of defiance. If I'm wrong, we'll see other major universities follow suit. I don't expect that. There is something astonishing about this though. There really is. When you look at it, when you consider all the angles, when you think of what's actually just been admitted to that – Peter is doing this without a cup of coffee.

Go have your coffee. I've got it. I've got shakes, man. There was a series of tweets between a lefty science fiction novelist and John Potthorst discussing this issue in which the lefty science fiction author was saying that, you know,

you conservatives, you, you, you realize that these, this will apply to you now too, don't you? That, that, that you may actually find that you don't have the safe space that you have now as if there's – What?

It was incomprehensible. Right. And Pothorse took him apart with the usual combination of John's tweezers and sledgehammer as if to say that colleges themselves are hotbeds of conservatism, that now they're going to be criticized by those previously suppressed lefties. It's one of those points where you realize some people's view of the world is so different than your own, you wonder how they can be meshed together. And it also makes you think, and I can't remember who was saying this the other day on the internet, but that one of the problems with the right and one of the reasons that it got the guy that it gets is that there is this bubble.

And we all know that we all travel in certain intellectual bubbles, right? I mean it's inevitable. Sure. But there are some that have – that don't – like soap bubbles in the bath do not actually even touch reality or other people's reality and that when you spend all of your time thinking and upset and really studying some of these issues, you believe that the rest of the world actually sees – not only sees them as you do but sees them period. And that's why it's always stunning to people on the right to realize that a lot of the things about which we are talking have absolutely no impact in the mind of the progressives whatsoever and the left whatsoever and the middle whatsoever.

They just don't. They don't care. They don't. Emails. They don't care. That's true. That's true. They just don't care.

They just – and the other thing – listen. OK. Thank you for raising this because this will get – I don't even need coffee to get worked up on this one. The other one on which the silence has been to me not just shocking but infuriating – frankly, not even infuriating and raging. I lived through the so-called Iran-Contra scandal in the 80s. I was in the Reagan White House when the country was shut down for six months so that members of Congress and the press could engage in an inquisition of the Reagan administration because there was some notion that Ronald Reagan had in a third-party transaction, an arm's-length transaction,

engaged in buying hostages, the freedom of hostages from Iran. That was one – that was the central component in the Iran-Contra scandal. And now we have not just a – and the president, I am convinced – for me, there's only one man I refer to as the president. But Ronald Reagan was convinced in his mind and in his heart that he had not engaged in a transaction, that there had been a third party involved, that they were trying to encourage moderates and all of that. In my judgment today and then, he was mistaken. An arm's length transaction is still a transaction. But put all that to one side. We now have the Obama administration, which engaged not in an arm's length transaction,

but in a perfectly explicit transaction. We now know that the Iranians held up the airplane for the hostages leaving the country until the American airplane with the cash arrived. It is absolutely outrageous. And aside from a couple of stories deep, deep inside the New York Times, it's dropped into the memory hole. If a Republican does it, the country stops and they threaten impeachment. And it goes on for six months. And when Barack Obama doesama does it oh rather interesting wonder whether they should have done that or shouldn't next unbelievable just unbelievable

that's because the president wants peace that's because the president is oh thank you that's because now i understand of course of course how could miss that? It's all about intentions. It is impossible for him to be a warmonger because he's on the left. It is impossible for him not to be patriotic. Let's set that aside. Who cares about patriotism? He's thinking about the greater good of the world and the region. And hence that was that deal, which brings stability and parity. And everybody knows that when Iran gets the nuclear missile, it'll be a great thing because it will blend the

hegemonistic powers of Israel, which is a good thing. So all of this is a good... Money given to the mullahs is a good... Standing down when they had their Green Revolution was attempting to overthrow the mullahs. Standing down was a good thing because it meant that we could be partners for peace with this government. And you

saw... And Reagan just wanted to blow up the world. That's why he was bad. Thank you. Thank you, James, for that moral instruction. Now it's all clear to me. You saw the effect so far of paying them off and giving them the rights in slow motion to get a nuclear weapon. You saw the film clip that was making its way around. Actually, it was

released by the United States Navy of four Iranian – I don't know what to call them. They weren't ships but they were power – they were gunboats. I suppose the correct term for them is gunboats. Four Iranian gunboats buzzing an American naval vessel in international waters, an open act of harassment. Thanks. Thanks, President Obama. Thank you so much that the world now respects and fears the United States of America so much that the Iranians feel free to harass a destroyer in little tinky gunboats because they know we will do nothing. When I would like to think that there would be a president coming down the road who would say, if that ever happens again, turn the Aegis system on them and turn them into confetti

and we'll bill the bastards for the bullets. Speaking – but then again, a tough – who is that tough president going to be? Well, here's a question. If the left had said in a book, in an author that, how to put this? Oh, in Barack, we trust. Would the right be saying, oh, look at that. They've replaced God with a political leader. This is exactly what's wrong with our culture.

Is it kind of funny when we do it, though? Is it kind of funny when Ann does it? If only there was somebody here who knew Ann Coulter who could tell us on her behalf. Hey, Rob. Ann's got this book. Ann has this book, In Trump We Trust, E Pluribus Awesome, which manages to introduce two little phrases of American founding history. And now we got the pivot, the immigration pivot, where it seems that, well, I don't know if you talked to her

on her book tour. It seemed to be curious timing. You know, I love her. She's great. It's lots of fun. And I wish she wasn't saying some of the things that she's saying and tweeting some of the things she's tweeting. And this is just one of these things that you go through, I guess. The book itself, I think, is, I don't know whether this is going to help sales or hurt sales. It is based entirely, and she says his Trump campaign is based entirely on the idea of immigration and his hard stance on immigration. So if that stance is softening, I think that they're all in trouble. But I think in a way what's weird about it is that I feel like it's a terrible sign for his candidacy now, but it is a good sign in general for his sanity because it means that he's paying attention to American politics in the general. The old cliche is running in a general is hard. You have to change, you run to the center, right? You collect the, your, uh, your, your primary

support from the true believers in the party. And then you have to run to the center to get the rest of the country. And that is a cliche, but like many cliches, it's a cliche because it's true. And it's true. Even if the Trump campaign up until September 1st or whatever, August 29th, didn't think it was true. They now realize it is true. And that's a good sign. That's a good sign for him if you're expecting him to maybe win. Is this nine-dimensional chess where everybody thinks, you know, I've had Donald Trump. I heard that he was an absolute wild man, crazy on immigration. but I've looked at his policy and it's actually quite moderate.

Hmm. What other lies have they been telling me about him? And then they investigate the candidate and they discover that this is the man for America. Is that even the strategy or is it sort of making it up as it gone along? No, the strategy here, the man to me, as usual, I agree with Rob on the specific, but sort of disagree on the larger implication, I think. So for me, the pivot is taking place. He actually is. He got rid of Paul Manafort who was telling him he had to pivot. And somehow or other, that seems to have freed him to convince himself that the pivot was his own idea and now he could do it.

The pivot is a very crude term. But what he's doing is giving thoughtful speeches. He's being disciplined with his message. He's on message in the press. This has been going on for eight or nine or 10 days now. And the political calculation couldn't be more straightforward. It's that he already has the 45% of the electorate that has been with him more or less, 35%, 45%. He already has his base. If he's serious about winning, he has to reach out to another 6%, 7%, 8%. There, Robin, I agree completely. Ann Coulter may be angry that Donald Trump, in softening his position on immigration,

has embarrassed her. But is Ann Coulter or anyone else who has been supporting Donald Trump really going to vote for Hillary Clinton? I doubt it. And you could argue, and indeed this is the danger, that if he softens his position on immigration, he's going to soften the intensity with which certain people support him and the turnout figures may be somewhat lower? Well, again, the calculation there has to be in the debates, the distinction between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton is going to fire people up. This strikes me as, I was about to say shrewd politics. It isn't even shrewd politics particularly. As Rob pointed out, this is basic politics. It's politics 101.

What's significant about it is that Donald Trump, of all people, is finally doing what I think all of us have felt for some, whether we agree with him or not. We've all felt he had to do to have a chance to win and he's doing it. Final note, I talked yesterday.

In some ways, I don't like doing this because I'm trying to report but I can't give the person's name. Well, this is a podcast in which we engage in conversation. I talked yesterday – in some ways, I don't like doing this because I'm trying to report but I can't give the person's name. So, well, this is a podcast in which we engage in conversation. I talked yesterday to someone who's with a pretty major polling organization. They're convinced – well, this person at least is convinced. I don't want to overconstruct what I'm about – the anecdote I'm about to pass on. There is a hidden Trump vote. It's perhaps 2 to 4 percent.

His feeling is that if you take the noise out today, the race is about a four-point race. And with regard to the Senate, among Republicans, only Kirk in Illinois and probably Ron Johnson in Wisconsin are gone. John McCain is fine. Rob Portman is fine. Most telling of all, Pat Toomey of Pennsylvania and Kelly Ayotte in New Hampshire, who were running behind, have pulled dead even. Things could be a lot worse than they are right now. And Donald Trump is moving in the right direction. I'm still going to subscribe to Rob's notion that he's likely to lose. But this is becoming grown-up politics.

Yes, well, there was a lot of softening in those positions. There's many – a lot of softening, Peter. It makes it sound as if there's some sort of problem that besets men when they get to a certain age. Oh, no. All those things that were previously rigid and fully engorged and turgid have now become much more solid. But that's using euphemisms. And euphemisms and figures of speech like that are one of the ways you do it. I say adult politics, and then the two of you start behaving like adolescents. Okay, I'm going to fall silent.

Go ahead. Be that way. No, I was just saying that using euphemisms and crudities like that are one ways in which you can vary the tone of the conversation to convince people. But it doesn't do it if you don't have a good argument, and you need to be rational to have a good argument. And if you don't know how to get your rational argument across, then what's the point really of having that conversation? Just leave. Or go to The Great Courses Plus, where you can learn rational conversation.

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which would drive you crazy. So great courses plus. You'll love it like we do. And right now you'll get a free month of unlimited access to all of their lectures when you sign up. So don't wait. Get your free month now. Sign up at thegreatcoursesplus.com slash ricochet. That's thegreatcoursesplus.com slash ricochet. We welcome down to the microphone a presidential candidate.

We don't get to say that too often, but we have Ian McMillan with us. Born in Utah, raised in Washington, Evan is a former CIA employee who worked in counterterrorism and intelligence operations, some of the most dangerous parts on Earth. And after that, he transitioned to the investment banking division at Goldman Sachs in the San Francisco Bay Area, where he worked with companies in several industries, including technology, energy, consumer goods, biotech, industrials, and real estate, and capital raising projects projects and mergers and acquisitions. In 2013, he joined the House Committee on Foreign Affairs as a senior advisor and later became the chief policy director of the House Republican Conference. Go to his site at evanmcmullen.com and we welcome to this the Ricochet podcast.

He declared his candidacy on August 8th and now in the same month, he's here with us. Welcome, sir. Thank you. Good to be with you. So we're going to ask you about your positions. I was just looking at your website just a few minutes ago, and you are celebrating 25 years of Ukrainian independence. I like that. Why is that small country an issue and a telling one for that in this race? Well, for so many reasons. First of all, it's an example of where our foreign policy has fallen short under the Obama administration and under Hillary Clinton's leadership as the Secretary

of State. It also demonstrates a contrast between Donald Trump's troubling relationship with the Kremlin and with Vladimir Putin and his opposition, Donald Trump's opposition to our support of Ukrainian independence. So there are lots of things going on here, but I am fully supportive of the Ukrainian people and their quest for independence. And I believe this country has a leadership role to play with its allies abroad. Hey, Evan, Peter Robinson here. Listen, let me just hit you with what you have to be hit with right up front. And let me do it by quoting Michael Walsh in a piece that he wrote. Well, it's appeared a couple of places on the internet.

Michael Walsh is a friend of Rob's and mine. And I'm sorry to say that the headline is the moral cowardice of the never Trumpkins. So I'm just going to read a one sentence excerpt and give it to you. The never Trumpers continue up to offer up spoiler candidates. I'm quoting Michael Walsh now, such as Evan McMullin, a Mormon former CIA officer with no chance of even getting on all 50 state ballots. One question there, is that so? In the hopes of damaging Trump's chances in states with significant Mormon populations such as Utah and Arizona. Close quote. Spoiler candidate, can't get on the ballot. Evan, come on. It's going to be either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton. You may dislike Trump terribly, but denying him Utah or Arizona is handing the election to Hillary? Your answer. Well, there's a lot going on there. But first of all, let me just say that we entered the race

late because we hoped that someone else would step forward and do this. This wasn't ideal timing. But given the late entrance, our strategy is not to, we're realistic about our strategy. Our strategy is not to win a majority in the electoralctoral College, you know, 270 votes plus. We just know that we're too late for that. So our strategy is to deny Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump both a victory in the Electoral College so that the election goes to the House. So as we're getting on the ballots of all 50 states, we're pushing hard to get on as many as we can. There's a lot of misunderstanding, I think, probably by that author about what opportunities exist there. And also, it's useful to note, it is for us at least, that only seven states in the country

prohibit write-ins, right? There are, you know, write-in campaigns can be successful. And so we've got that available to us too. and we're taking steps as a plan B to register where required so that we're available as a write-in. Bottom line is, though, we're pursuing a strategy, as I said, to deny both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump a majority in the electoral college. And we're moving along quite well along that path. Evan, Peter here. Just the mechanics of this really quickly because I'd like to get to – I know – and Rob Long would like to come in. We'd like to know how you distinguish yourself from Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. But you deny either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton 270 votes in the electoral college. And just for – to remind us all, what happens then?

Then the top three finishers in the race, in the general election, go to the House of Representatives. Each state gets a vote. The delegations decide on their vote from each state. And then they elect the president from the top three finishers. And so how do we – give us some assurance that there's some dynamic that that would introduce to the race that isn't just a slow motion way for Hillary Clinton to capture the White House? Well, let me say this. I think that the underlying premise there is something that I need to address. I am not causing Hillary Clinton to win this this election. Donald Trump is doing that. I entered the race two and a half weeks ago when he was 10 percent down. I saw a recent poll that has him down 16 percent in Virginia. And I keep repeating this, but I think we're a lot of conservatives are still living in a fantasy land when it comes to Donald Trump's

candidacy. He cannot beat Hillary Clinton. Eventually we will realize this. I'm two and a half weeks into this. I'm still new. I'm not impacting the race quite yet in any serious way. We hope we will. In some states, I think it'll happen more quickly than others. But I will say that Donald Trump is failing miserably to challenge the weakest candidate the Democrats have put on the field in quite some time. So he cannot win this race, and we need to get real about another strategy as conservatives, ASAP. And that's what I and my team hope to offer. Hey, Evan, it's Rob Long talking from Los Angeles. Okay, what you just said right there is kind of crack for me because I've been saying this for a while with podcasts.

So I'm with you, right? I'm with you on the analysis. I've got a couple questions. One is who's this we? You keep saying we're our strategy. Who's we? McMullen and who? Well, yeah, look, I always hear presidential candidates talk about I this and me that, and it always runs the wrong way.

So I've got a great team here. Joel Serby is my chief strategist. I've got – Well, I guess what I mean is a running mate. You don't have a running mate. Oh, well, we will have a running mate. I mean, I'm two and a half weeks into this. We have a plan for that.

There are several critical path things that we need to get done before that, and we're doing that. So this is an unconventional campaign, and I'm glad people are applying some traditional standards to what we're doing because it shows that they're taking us seriously. But the reality is we've entered this race. We entered this race with three months to go. There are a lot of things we need to move quickly to get done. The VP pick is a priority, but there are other things that we simply must get done first.

I get you. Just in order, though, just to set the table a little bit. When was the last time a write-in candidate won a statewide, let alone running for president running 50 statewides? When was the last time they won a statewide, let alone, you know, basically running for president is running 50 statewides.

So when was the last time they won a statewide? Yeah, well, I know I'll have to look back at it. I mean, early on when I was thinking about doing this, I did the research and saw that that has happened. Where it happens is when there's a write-in candidate who campaigns in a focused way like a traditional candidate and therefore has a solid go TV effort. And so it can happen there. Now, I'm not saying that we would do that in all write-in states. But if there were a case where in which a state became important to us on one level or another and we weren't on that state's ballot through petition or through third party which is another way we're doing it then then we would leverage the write-in option either to impact the race or potentially win win the race in that state so my next question is when was the

last time that the house of representatives chose the president it was it it 1800s. So it's been a long time. But listen, I would say this. It's not lost on us that what we're doing is difficult here. That's not lost on us one bit. But again, the idea is that the reality is that Donald Trump will not beat Hillary Clinton. You can't be a divisive candidate like Donald Trump and offend most of the population of this country and expect to win a general election. You just can't do it. Do the math. So we're trying to, I mean, it would be much better if somebody else had stepped forward so much earlier, somebody with national name ID, you know, somebody, you know, maybe with a little more hair than me, these sorts of things. But it

didn't happen. So here we are, and we're going to fight as hard as we can to give Republicans and conservatives and Democrats that understand our message, which I think should appeal to all Americans, that this is a better choice than Hillary Clinton, who's a terribly corrupt politician, and Donald Trump, who I think represents a threat to our democracy. Okay, I got two questions. Both of them are really unfair, and then I'm going to ask them, and then someone else can jump in. But they're two super unfair questions, but I just want to – because I'm sort of interested. I see the bio. You worked at Goldman Sachs. Yes. Steve Bannon, who's running Trump's campaign, was at Goldman Sachs. Hillary Clinton famously gives lots of speeches to Goldman Sachs for hundreds of thousands of dollars. What is the deal with Goldman Sachs? I'm not a paranoid

person, but even given a slight inclination towards paranoia, I would say, what's going on here? Why is Goldman Sachs so powerful and so rich, and is that a good thing? Well, this is what I think it is. I think anytime you have an organization, whether it's in government or business, it attracts a lot of scrutiny. That's just the reality. And frankly, I think it should be that way. Goldman Sachs is a powerful firm. I believe, like all companies, but especially large companies, in addition to first and foremost having responsibilities to their owners, to their shareholders,

I do believe that there also is some civic responsibility that should be considered in Jamaica. But let me ask you for a minute. If I'm an American, here's what I'm saying. What on earth do these people make? What's their product? I know what Kodak used to make. I know what Apple Computer and Cisco Systems makes. I even know what Toyota makes.

I don't know what Goldman Sachs makes. I even know what Toyota makes. I don't know what Goldman Sachs makes. And it makes me feel very strange that this company that kind of doesn't make anything except financial services and products is somehow so rich and so powerful that, I mean, all presidential candidates except maybe Jill Stein have a deep and abiding connection to it. They don't make anything. I don't know about that. But listen, I'll say this. The role that Goldman Sachs or that I played at Goldman Sachs was to help companies that are trying to grow and need capital access to public markets or companies that are trying to grow through acquisition or strengthen themselves through acquisition to compete in the global marketplace, help them do that. I mean, these are things that lead to companies' ability to compete, as I said, but also to hire people.

You know, I think another part of this, let me just make this point. I think it's really important on this Goldman Sachs piece. People out there in America want to know that their concerns, that their livelihoods, that their situations, that their pains and struggles are being heard by their leaders. Now, I don't think that's, Donald Trump was born with a silver spoon in his mouth. He's never had to struggle in the way that most Americans have. Look, that's fine. It happens. I'm somebody who grew up in a lower middle class family where I overheard my parents talking about how we might lose the house in a family where we had to wear winter clothes inside our house because we couldn't afford to turn on the heat. I get that. I've lived it. I've watched my

parents work two and three jobs in order to survive, not have clothes, not have money to buy new clothes. The whole thing, I've been there. I've lived it. As much as I am pro-business, pro-trade, which I think is important so that we can get the economy growing by more than 2% in real terms a year, which is not going to give anyone the opportunity that they seek, I also think we've got to be more sympathetic to the people who are struggling as the economy develops. And I've lived it, so I just feel that in the deepest possible way, and that's what's important. Good, okay. You can tell we're not – I have one more unfair question to ask. Sure.

Which you'll probably duck, but I'm going to ask it anyway. Go for it. A year ago, you were just an ordinary guy, maybe last autumn. Ordinary guy. You're an ordinary Republican. You're watching the debates. You're watching it. Full panoply of candidates. Who do you support back then? Well, I would have supported any of them and did say this, any of them over Donald Trump. Donald

Trump is a true threat to our democracy. Any of the other candidates would have been superior. Obviously, I had some... But who would you be rooting for? Well, I voted in Virginia. And at the time of my vote, I believe the best option was Marco Rubio. I thought he was a tremendous candidate. I thought he's somebody who could secure this country and lead this country to a more prosperous space. I also liked Jeb Bush. I liked Ted Cruz, parts of his candidacy as well. But really all of the other.

There were a few lessers in there. But really any of them would have been better than Donald Trump by yards, miles. Last question here from me, James Lalix in Minneapolis. You can tell that it's no longer the 1970s because Rob is asking about this Goldman Sachs thing and the fact that your ex-CIA is just sort of – back in the 70s, anybody from the CIA running for president would have been part of some dark conspiracy to subvert democracy. But now, well, let me ask you this. We've put a little bit more faith and hope in our intelligence services since 9-11. But now we're reading about penetration of the NSA. We're reading about all kinds of hacks on the government. Let's have your candidacy's position on the matter of national security

when it comes to what we ought to be able to do to find out the threats and counter them before they happen. Well, I would say that the intelligence services, and I appreciate the question, but our intelligence services are our first line of defense to many of the threats that this country faces these days, whether it's international terrorist threats, Islamist terrorist threats, or cyber threats, or a range of other non-state actors are playing an increasingly dangerous role in the world today. The CIA and the other intelligence services are on the front lines of that. And the stronger they are, and they do, there needs to be strong oversight there from Congress, I firmly believe. But

the more effective these organizations are, the better off we are in protecting our country, but also avoiding situations where we have to go to war, which is something that we should avoid at all costs. So I'm, you know, having lived through that and having served in the capacity I did, I'm a firm believer that we need to have robust intelligence services that act internationally, not nationally. So I, we, you know, we need to be very careful about the protection of our civil liberties in this new electronic era. But we need strong intelligence services and they serve our interests. You know, it's refreshing to have somebody

deliver a question and then just not go on and on and on and steer to something else that they really want to talk about, deflecting the original point. So you're new to this is what we're getting here. Newbie, you'll learn fast. No, listen, I will admit that at times I will avoid answering a question.

But I'll tell you this. I think what's lacking in this race in part is honesty to the American people. And, you know, maybe it's easier for me to do that because I'm, you know, I'm a new entrant and I'm, you know, I'm the underdog. But I believe that candidates need to be honest with the American people about all kinds of difficult topics, national security, entitlement reform, all kinds of things. And it's just missing these days. Well, you can find more at EvanMcMullin.com. And you'll find a lot there. You'll find all sorts of policy positions with which you may agree or disagree. But we're happy to have the voice in the mix. We'd like to see you in the debates,

and after you've won the presidency, we expect that you will come back here to ricochet to repay us for this moment. As a matter of fact... You have my word. Yeah, thanks, Evan. Good luck. You're singing my song. I like it. I appreciate it.

Evan, just don't be... That's Rob sucking up right now because he wants an ambassadorship. He wants some cushy ambassadorship to a little island in the Caribbean. Just ignore that man. Anywhere. Anywhere. He's competing very strongly for that position. There.

That's what I – that's the politician I knew was in there somewhere. All right. Thanks for showing up. Thank you. We'll talk to you later. Thanks, Evan. Bye-bye. Well, wouldn't that be great?

Yes, a cushy little job as an ambassador. Does anybody believe actually that the people that we send out to be ambassadors deserve it through their diplomatic skills, their ability to hold a good party? I mean, Rob, where would you like to be? Where would you like to be the diplomat? Rob can hold a good party. I mean, Rob, where would you like to be the diplomat? Rob can hold a good party. I'm sure of that. Yeah, that's the thing. It's like the only, I mean, I don't think they matter.

If they matter, it's only because of some disaster that happens that no one knew about, you know, earthquake, a tsunami, something like that. So they really don't matter. You don't set policy. Nobody really consults you. You are ordered and you are consulted upon in the ambassadorships these days. The trick is to get somebody super rich in either the Court of St. James in the UK or in France or in some of the other big NATO and big powerful ally countries. Because that person – you have to supplement everything with your own dollars.

Well, that's right. So, yeah, because they give you a very, very, very, very small budget, and you've got to pay for everything. So Pamela Harriman, who was the – Bill Clinton sent to Paris basically to get her out of D.C. but also because it was an incredibly cushy post, but also she was really, really rich. So her budget wasn't big, but she spent it herself. And Pamela Herrmann, in her old age, there's only one nice inside swimming pool close to the American embassy, which is true. And she would go to the Ritz Hotel, and they had a beautiful pool in the basement there. And she would swim laps in the morning, and that's where she died.

She died in the pool. She just kind of – kind of a nice way to die, actually. As she lived. I would hate to do that because a lot of people would say I'm not going to take a job. Beautiful. A lot of people would say I'm not taking an international post because, as far as I know, Casper only ships in the U.S. I don't know if they go abroad.

They probably will someday because the demand for the product will be so great. And if I went to another post, I would have no problem whatsoever ordering a Casper even though they might not come and get it for free. But I know that they wouldn't have to come and get it because I love it anyway. Love that mattress. You know that Casper is revolutionizing the industry, right? Because you've been paying these notoriously high, high, high stratospheric nosebleed markups. Now with Casper, they cut the cost of dealing with resellers in the showrooms

and pass that savings directly on to you, the consumer. Time magazine named it one of the best inventions of 2015. That's right. It's not just a bed. It's an invention. It's an award-winning invention, a mattress that just won't disappoint. Now, Casper is an obsessively engineered mattress at a shockingly fair price, frankly. Mattresses can often cost well over $1,500, right?

You know, if you've shopped for them. But Casper's cost $500 for a twin, $6 for a twin XL, $7.50 for a full, $8.50 for a queen, and $9.50 for a king. There's an in-house team of engineers that spent thousands of hours developing the Casper, and it combines this springy latex and supportive memory foams to create an award-winning sleep surface with just the right sink and just the right bounce. I love getting into the Casper every day. Plus, its breathable design helps you sleep cool to help regulate your temperature through the night. And pillow, and here's Peter Robinson with a personal history video.

By the way, this is how effective the ricochet podcasts are. Listening to the glop podcast the other day, I heard John Podhoritz mentioned that he had bought a Casper pillow. I already sleep in a Casper mattress. I shelled out. It's a, it's a fairly pricey pillow as pillows go.

At least if you're used to picking up your pillows at Costco, as I am, it's a $75 pillow. But it is just blissful. I am yet again, I'm a conviction. Margaret Thatcher was a conviction politician. I am a conviction sleeper. And it is my newest conviction that the Casper pillow is bliss.

I love it. That is a great testimony and we're going to use the term conviction sleeper when we talk about Peter in the future I am a conviction it's the only thing I do with real conviction anymore but go ahead so this mattress is that we're talking about in the pillow

risk free Casper get you free delivery and free returns with a hundred night home trial and if you don't love it they'll pick it up and refund you everything. What do you got to lose? Nothing. Casper understands the importance of sleeping on a mattress before you commit, especially since you're going to spend a third of the rest of your life on it.

Best of all, made in America. So $50 off any mattress purchase by visiting www.casper.com slash ricochet and using that coupon code ricochetcasper you'll start sleeping better immediately. We now go to since we're touring the what to say here

Tour d'Horizon Say that again? A tour d'Horizon a tour of the horizon. That's exactly the term I'm looking for, with exactly that sort of fine French accent. We're going to bring Bill McGurn on the show. A tour d'horizon. A tour d'horizon.

Bill is a member of the Wall Street Journal, on the editorial board, and writes the weekly Main Street, or the Grue de Main column for the journal. He served as chief speechwriter for President George W. Bush. Welcome to the podcast. Hello, sir. Thank you. You wrote The Case for President George W. Bush. We welcome him to the podcast. Hello, sir. Thank you. You wrote The Case for Donald Trump. All right. Here are some Trump skeptics amongst you.

What's the case? Well, the main case is Hillary Clinton. That's the alternative. And I would say that I would consider myself not a Trump supporter. I have some disagreements, but a likely Trump voter. And frankly, his movement on a bunch of issues has been more in my direction, whether it's on taxes, on foreign policy, on immigration. So I think I know what I'd get under Hillary Clinton, and I don't think I'd like it. Bill, Peter Robinson here.

We just had Evan McMullullen on a moment ago. Evan McMullen is running for president, in case you haven't heard. And Rob Long said to Evan McMullen while we were talking to him, Evan, this is music to my ears. I wish to say that Bill McGurn, Bill McGurn is music to my ears. But Bill,urn. Bill McGurn is music to my ears. But Bill, explain – you're going to – actually, I don't know how to frame the question tightly, but it doesn't matter because you'll know exactly what I'm getting at because we inhabit so much of the similar – such similar worlds. What has happened? What is it about Donald Trump? It seems to me perfectly clear that what you're saying is correct. The next

president is going to be either Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump. You've got to choose between the two. Why is it that good friends of ours, people we respect, people of obvious intelligence, including Bill Kristol, including George Will, including Rob Long, can't see that. What has happened? Yeah, I don't know. I mean, what I would say is when I read the commentary from the conservative never Trumpers, what I find often is the idea that here's my vote and I can't bring myself to go with the choice that the party has made, you know, go with the choice of the voters. It's too vulgar. And in my vote, I can't do that. I think those of us that think almost all elections are between lesser evils, you know, have an easier time

going with Mr. Trump. Look, most of my elections, I live in the People's Republic of New Jersey stand. You live in California stand. How many good choices do you have in your elections over the past 20 or 30 years since you've been living there? Not many, right? Whether it's a school board or something. Pete Wilson, that was it. Yeah. And if you think of politics as the art of the possible and not the end and be all, I just want something better than what I've had before. Okay. I've got one more question for you, Bill, and then I'm going to release you to Rob, who right this moment is in his corner warming up. He's got the gloves on. He's doing jumping jacks. Right now, i'm not okay so here's the next question the pivot the long awaited pivot it seems to have happened is the am fred barnes had a piece yesterday

amazingly enough nobody seems to have noticed it except fred barnes and you and me but donald trump has spent the last the last 10 days i, well, it's at least eight days on message. This is the guys serious now, right? On a number of things, on a number of things like taxes, you know, I think Rob would answer it just shows that he's on principle because he, you know, revises something that was a big part of his stand earlier. My view is he's coming, the changes that he's made so far, he's coming closer to the views I hold. I also think it's part of the reason I don't worry so much about Donald Trump on trade and so forth,

because one, I don't think he can do all the things that he says he's going to do. And two, I do think, unlike Mrs unlike Mrs. Clinton's more of an ideologue or even ideologues on our side, he's more open to revising his views. If someone says, if you do this, you know, I'm going to have to close this plant in Las Vegas or whatever. And I think he can modify it. Now, again, other people will say it just shows a total lack of principle, but come on. He's against Mrs. Clinton, who's going to be whatever she needs to be at whatever time.

Hey, Bill, I'm sorry. One last question that I really will relinquish you to Rob. Do you find – is there anything about Donald Trump, about his character, about his career, about the race he's waging now. I mean, you and I are reluctant. We're not never Trumpers, I suppose, is the way to put it. We're reluctantly prepared to vote for him. Is there any aspect of this man, his character, or his career that you admire? Well, I'll answer it in a different way.

When he came in to see us, you know, we're in New York and he's in New York. From the way he spoke, I can see how he sees himself. sane city council, that now has a crazy mayor. So it has completely ridiculous politics, has greedy labor unions that are always trying to extort more. He has to buy his cement from the mafia. And he looks at all that and he says, I get things done. I get things built. And I think he thinks the world is a larger version of that. And I think he's right up to a point, but only up to a point. Vladimir Putin is not a local poll or union leader. It's a different category altogether. But I think that's how for minority outreach. I think, again, he's opened himself up, you know, by the attacks on that Mexican-American judge and so forth. On the other hand, I do think he's taking the fight to the liberals for the black vote, I think. So what do you have to lose is a great sales pitch, because the Democrats basically regard the entire Republican Party, not just Donald Trump, as a hate group.

And that's their M.O. It was their M.O. with Mr. Romney. It was their M.O. with my former boss, George W. Bush. John McCain complained about President Barack Obama, then Senator Obama, dealing the race card out of the bottom of the deck. So this is their whole M.O., and he's challenging it, and he's not doing it in a polite, timid and deferential way. And I think that's a good model for what happens, whether he wins or loses or not. I think people need to challenge it. It would have been better

if he started this before and maybe went to a charter school last year or so forth. But I think that's a good battle to have. Bill, you'd better turn around quickly because Rob is right behind you. No. Hey, listen. Hey, Bill. It's Rob. Hey, Rob. You know, this is painful, right?

But here's what I want to ask. I ask because it's assuming that all of the polls and projections are true and that whether it's close or not, we're not looking at a Trump victory. We're looking at a Hillary Clinton victory, and I guess all of our jobs is to make sure that whatever – if that does happen, that she doesn't get one more vote than um you know that she doesn't get to claim this sort of magnificent mandate um so so sometimes i am so anti-trump in my own sort of brain because i can't believe that we threw this great opportunity away um that i forget just how terrible she is and how terrible terrible president President Hillary Clinton is going to be. And mostly it's me psychologically preparing myself for that fact. But just assume that we have a President Hillary Trump. How bad is it going to be?

How horrible is she? And what do we got to do to at least gum up the works a bit? Well, I think it's going to be very horrible, and not just because of her. I think because of the way the party has changed. We can thank Monica for this. When her husband took over, he was the challenge to bring the Democratic Party to a more centrist position. And I think in many ways he did that. And then Monica hit. And the people who were more moderate rightly saw this as an abuse of power. So we went with the left. And ever since, the Clintons have been moving left. I think what you say points to one of the problems I have with the never Trumpers.

A lot of people will say they want Trump defeated, but they want a Republican Congress to check Mrs. Clinton because they're very aware of what she is. And the problem, I think, the realistic choice, the actual choice we have, if you go to Capitol Hill and talk to Republicans, they will tell you if Trump wins or if he loses by two or three percent, we can save a lot of seats like Pat Toomey and Lon Johnson. Right. But if it's a blowout, we probably lose the House and Senate. And that's the reality of the choice. And if that happens, this is my worry about how awful it will be. She will have a Democratic majority in Congress, and she'll have her eye in 2010. And so she will try to run the table in two years. Supreme Court justices, all sorts of rules, all sorts of things done in those two years because she'll be very conscious that she's not going to make the mistake Barack Obama did. So we should – So the answer is it would be very bad, very bad.

And if you have that summer home in Guatemala or something, you should spit it out to your screen. How did you know that's where Rob's summer – one of his summer homes is? Yeah, I like – I love their commitment to democracy. So just to think tactically here, just for a minute to take off or, or fantasy daydream fantasy hats. A good part of my complaint about Trump has been early on. I've said this, you know, not for a year, but at least for nine, 10 months, is that he is not going to win the general, that the, that all the math is against him and it's not happening.

And I know that poor Peter Robinson, he's the man. You may be right. I mean, the polls bear you out. Yeah. We can spin a number. We can unscrew the polls, do whatever we did. But he's running way behind Mitt Romney. Mitt Romney is running at this point. And Mitt Romney famously, just to remind everyone, did not win. Right. So the question is, if that's the case, what should we be hoping for? What should the – I got a complaint recently from someone, from a Richie member, and it was I think a completely fair criticism, which is like, okay, fine.

Then what are you going to do? What can you do if you don't like Trump and you still don't want the deluge of, you still don't want a blowout. If you don't, yeah. I mean, look, let me answer it the other way first, and then I'll answer that. The other way is, one of my feelings is if Trump has Paul Ryan as speaker and a majority in the Senate or a very close minority, I think the Ryan agenda goes through because I think Donald Trump is not as ideologically committed. He wants to make deals and take credit for the deals. And Paul Ryan can give him those deals. And maybe he doesn't take

the full thing, but I think he takes a lot of it because he'll need Paul Ryan to get stuff through Congress. You know, President Obama basically turned over the health care to Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid. And I would think that the Trump agenda, if he wants to take credit for doing things, would likely come from Paul Ryan. For example, on trade, there's no doubt in my mind that if Donald Trump had negotiated TPP, we'd be hearing how great it is for the American worker. I think he just wants to do things and get things done for which he would need this. Now, the other way to go, I think we need a Republican Congress. And I don't think we're going to get a Republican Congress so long as Republicans are piling on Donald Trump. I mean, it's amazing to me that he's so often compared to this ideal of a candidate.

I mean, I loved Reagan, but some of these are fictional portrayals of Reagan as this perfect candidate, not a candidate in his time and place that did things. And these portrayals and this evaluation of Donald Trump against this golden yardstick, as opposed to the actual choice in the race, Hillary Clinton is just astounding to me. So I think the main thing is to stop attacking them so we don't lose those downstream guys on the ballot in the House and so forth. But couldn't I respond just to that, Rick, in one second? Maybe he could also stop attacking TPP and Paul Ryan. Right?

I mean, if he's going to beat Paul Ryan. Yeah, I agree. I think he has. I don't know if he stopped attacking TPP, but I think he has stopped attacking Paul Ryan. But look, he's the guy in the head of the ticket. He beat 16 other guys who were much more seasoned. That tells you something. I'm not sure that people vote for him because they agree with all his program. For one thing, he's been pretty vague about some of his program.

But the voters are sending a message. And look, I want to keep, to me, the most important thing now is keeping a Republican House. And it's not going to happen so long as Republicans and conservatives savage Donald Trump because he's not their ideal. Look, on Hillary Clinton's side, there's a woman that should have been indicted, that's lied her entire life, that, you know, turned the State Department into a profit-making center. And there's no Democrats criticizing her or say, oh, I can't stand Hillary or she's too vulgar for me. They'll put up with anything to get power. It's just, it's extraordinary to me because they understand that if they criticize, they'll lose. Well, they do stick together. But when it comes to the never Trump people, I've yet to meet anybody

who is never Trump and who won't vote for the man who also isn't very passionate about going out and voting for the other people because they know it's important to keep the House and the Senate. So, I mean, do we have stats? bill. If Donald Trump loses by a big margin, which a lot of these people not only want, are invested in, if he loses by a big margin, we lose the House. Look, if he loses by a small margin, a lot of people are going to say, hey, we lost because these Republicans, the never-Trumpers, were judices, you know, betraying us. And they would have something of a case. If he loses by a blowout, they'll say, we were prophets. Look, we told you, this guy was no good. But if he loses by a blowup, we don't have the House and Senate.

Well, I will add Judas to Vichy Khan and moral cowards. The epithets for the never-Trumpers accumulate as many as they have for Donald himself. Hey, listen, thanks for coming on the show, and we'll see you in the Main Street column in the Wall Street Journal as ever. Thank you, and I'll see Rob out in Guatemala. There's always room for you guys. There's always room for the McGurn family, wherever I am. Look, I need to cover. We're going to take you up on it.

Be careful what you offer. All right, Bill, thanks. Take care careful what you offer. All right, Bill. Thanks. Take care, Bill. Thanks. All right. Take care. Speaking of Main Street, I actually did this little radio interview a while ago with a newspaper in New York

which had noted the Main Street feature that I do on my website, lilacs.com, where I go to Google Street View and go to these small little towns and see exactly what's happened to them. And now and then you'll find a place that looks prosperous and happy and takes care of itself. But too often you find these towns that have just absolutely been gutted and there's nothing left and it's really depressing. And you think there's probably a Walmart in the end of town. There probably is. And then you lament whether or not the mom and pop businesses, do they pay the same as Walmart does? Do they have the same benefits?

The range of goods that we now have is extraordinary. What would be the effect of 45% tariffs on that? I mean don't we kind of like the fact that we get stuff from abroad? How is it possible that we can bring in products from other countries that actually are cheaper than the ones that we have here when we're talking the high end stuff? I'm not talking the cheap junk but I'm talking like – well, for example, you go to the – I don't know, the Costco or the CVC or whatever and you buy razor blades. It could be four bucks a razor blade. You go to Harry's and there's two bucks. They're two bucks and they're from Germany.

Now, how is that? Well, that's part of the Harry's mystique, part of the Harry's secret, part of the Harry's glorious story that they bought the factory in Germany and they provide high-quality blades to you with, again, that middleman whole thing not being there. So we've told you about Harry's before and we've told you that you're going to get $5 off your first purchase with the promo code RICOSHET. But let me ask you this. You know how many companies are – they roll out a new model and they'll say, that blade that was $4, well, we've added a 16th blade to it and an emollient strip, and it's now going to be $9, best shave you ever had.

You try it once and the blade a day later, it seems to have lost its desire to live. That's not Harry's. They don't believe in upcharging. They make a bunch of improvements to their razors, and they're keeping prices exactly the same. Still, $2 per blade compared to $4 you pay at the drugstore. Harry's five-blade razors now include a softer flex hinge for a more comfortable glide, a trimmer blade to reach those hard-to-reach places, a lubricating strip, and a textured handle for more control when it's wet.

And it's a weighted blade, too, so it just feels great in your hand. You know, I love these guys, and I shave with it. It's the best razor, period, I've ever absolutely had. And I think that Peter had a testimonial or was that just all three of my college age sons love Harry's and particular and noticed I got them all the new version and they noticed immediately said, Oh wow, this really is better. It is astonishing to me that they haven't charged more. So they are improving their product. These are smart guys. They're improving their product. They're going after market share. And my personal testimonial, my little addition, the newest version of the aftershave balm, oh, my goodness.

It's almost as sweet as listening to James do a segue. Well, can I – we almost started this last week and then we got sidetracked. But is something about a company or a person or a candidate even that gets inside what it is that you're mad about and then provides a solution, right? Yes, yes. And I'm standing in the CVS and waiting for the person to come and unlock the treasure trove, the safe deposit box where they keep the razor blade is so irritating to me that somehow Harry's got inside my head and said, well, look, this is a regular product you buy pretty much on clockwork. Why don't we just send it to you?

It's going to be just as good – it could be better than what you're buying in the store, and you don't have to go to the store. That to me is like I want to reward that. I want more people to look at and say, okay, what else makes Rob mad? That's stupid during the day. And how can we solve it? It's a great business model. If you'd like to reward yourself though, you'll want to go to Harry's because you'll get the weighted razor blade of your choice, moisturizing, shave cream, three precision injured, five blade cartridges and travel cover for 15 bucks. Did I say 15? Oh, you know what's coming. Special offer for you, the fans of the show.

If you go to harrys.com right now and enter the coupon code RICOSHET at your checkout, you'll get $5 off your first purchase. And once you run a Harry's across your cheek, you'll never, ever even consider going back to those ridiculously high-priced blades. Before we go,

I know Rob's got, he wants to mention something. One of the things that was brooded about in the member feed this week was how the term alt-right has now been surfaced thanks to Hillary Clinton's speech. And I was engaged in an argument the other day with somebody who was saying that the Never Trumpkins are to blame for this because what the Never Trump people did was they pointed out the existence of the alt-right and thereby handed the left a cudgel. I don't know if we're supposed to get a time machine and go back and stop talking about that, but the reason that those things were brooded about in the first place was because we were attempting to get a candidate with a more electable profile. Right? Wasn't that the whole idea?

Look at exactly what's bubbling up behind this economic white nationalism stuff here. Maybe. I mean, I'm actually really sympathetic to the counter-counterargument or whatever, which is that nobody thinks Mitt Romney is a white nationalist or a neo-Nazi, but they called him all sorts of terrible names, racist, bigot, you know, Klansman practically. They said he killed a woman, you know, by giving her cancer. You know, the level of rage and hatred and any weapon to hand that the left has used against conservatives, even ones like Mitt Romney, it's now so incredibly – it's such a cliché and it's so ingrained that I think it's a losing war for any Republican candidate. Donald Trump, Marco Rubio –

You think they could have made Marco Rubio look like a racist? Oh, yeah. They would have – Oh, my God. Yeah, absolutely. Of course they would try. Would it work? Would it have worked? I mean, well, who knows whether it would have worked or not.

I don't know whether it worked here. There's a drone outside. Oh. How am I? I think we've got to. My window. My window. There's a guy going by the neighbor's yard with a leaf blower.

Sorry. I'll mute myself. I thought that Rob was actually doing the show from the Wi-Fi in the back booth of the friend lease. And they were coming by with a vacuum cleaner to tell him. Oh, I wish. I wish we had a friend lease in California. All right. John Walker. Any Republican candidate would ever escape calumny and character assassination and that kind of rageful invective.

It's baked into the cake. It is, but it sticks better with some than others based on what they – Yeah, I guess. You had something from John Walker? Well, what I did last week, I said on the site of Ricochet.com, which if you're not a member, you didn't see it. If you remember, you saw it. But I know that my member pitches are lame and that people complain about them all the time. And I get PMs from people on the site and I get little sides.

You're really bad at this. Which, okay, yeah, I'm bad at it. Okay, I admit. So I said, why don't you guys come up with some better? And so we have a whole list of them. And I thought we'd just do one today from John Walker, a longtime member, does Saturday Night Science, runs a bunch of other stuff, groups on the site, and is incredibly useful and has explained more complicated things to me than, frankly, any science teacher I ever had. His pitch is brilliantly simple, and it's brilliantly simple genius. You enjoy the Ricochet podcast.

You must because you're listening. Imagine if there were a website where you could find this kind of intelligent conversation on a multitude of topics every day where comments were civil, where you could start your own conversations, which may end up on the front page where they're read by influential people around the world. Ricochet.com is fulfilling the promise of the Internet as the home of intelligent conversation on the web. Become a member. The first month it's free. There's no risk to you. And join the conversation. Join the movement.

Now I'm adding stuff to it, which I shouldn't do. But I love the idea that we are fulfilling the promise of the Internet. Every time, pretty much every month, some site says no more comments or shutting down comments. Comments are too disgusting. We don't do that because we have rules, and those rules are enforced by our members, and we want you to be a member too. So Ricochet.com and join. We need about a third of the way to our goal. We have a long way to go.

If you've been putting up, we really need you. Absolutely. And no matter what the election results are going to be, it's going to be the place where I want to go for solace, for conversation, for argumentation, and for Saturday night science. Desperate to hear what John has to say about the discovery of a new planet. Very close. Oh, yeah. It's in the habitable zone. I just think it's fascinating if we went there and found a completely developed civilization very much like our own where comments were – I thought you said a completely developed civilization.

Oh, you know, I hate that. I hate that. Scotty, beam me up. There's no intelligent life here. I hate that BS. When you look at this – when you look at a civilization that has built skyscrapers of stunning – Peter, you poke the bear. Never know, Rob, do you?

Let's go set him off. Threaded the land with... Poked a bear. Threaded the land with ribbons of road to which we can drive on our magical conveyances, these devices in our hands that connect us instantaneously with a globally accessible

communication information database system that I can get in my car and push a button and it converses with a bird in the sky that plays the music from the 1940s that we send into the outer reaches, spacecraft on which are contained CDs that contain the music of the greats. When you look at everything that humanity has done, this idea that somehow as a whole we are to be taken as a benighted species because, okay, well, you know, the 20th century was kind of bloody. One word, though.

Wonderful things we have done. One word, James. One word. One word, though. Wonderful things we have done. One word, James. One word. One word, reputation. Kardashian. Well, there's your cultural proctology from Rob Long, who lives in California and is thus affected by it. Me, I'm James Lylex,

living in a place where you can go to the state fair right now and the grass is still green and the mini donuts are fresh. People are wandering around by the hundreds of thousands without a single harsh word or thrown elbow or any of the rest of it. Life the way it should be here in Minnesota. Come. Stay for a while. You'll freeze to death. But do arrive.

And also go to Ricochet because this podcast wouldn't be here without it. And this podcast wouldn't be here without our sponsors, The Great Courses, Harry's, and Casper Mattresses. And do visit the Ricochet store. You can get mugs and T-shirts, and you can walk about and portray the ideal real Ricochet member to the world at large. And if you enjoyed it, please take a minute to leave a review on iTunes.

Your reviews allow new listeners to discover us while it helps keeping this show going. And remember, there are no words that are quite like the words at the end of a podcast when everyone knows it's wrapping up because everyone's bailed and gone. So I'll just say it's been fun. It's been great. Peter, Rob, we'll see everybody in the comments at Ricochet 3.0, and we'll see you guys next week.

Next week. Next week, fellas. To dream the impossible dream To fight the unbeatable foe To bear with unbearable sorrow To run where the brave dare not go To right the unrightable wrong To love pure and chaste from afar To try when your arms are too weary

To reach the unreachable star This is my quest to follow that star No matter how hopeless, no matter how far, to fight for the right without question or pause, to be willing to march into hell for a heavenly cause. And I know I'll only be true to this glorious quest That my heart will lie peaceful and calm When I'm laid to my rest And the world will be better for this. That one man, scorned and covered with scars, still strove with his last ounce of courage

to reach the unreachable Star Ricochet! Join the conversation.