The Ricochet Podcast - Toga Party

Episode Date: August 14, 2015

It’s the dog days of summer and that means we load the podcast up with a panoply of guests. To kick things off, the great Victor Davis Hanson, who opines on the academic view of Trump and the Iran deal. Then, the dulcet tones of David Limbaugh (aka El Rush Bro) joins. Yep, he also has some views on The Donald as well as Hillary. Not to be missed. Finally, stick around as we give some podcast fame... Source

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so you can focus on what really matters, growing your business. Whether it's communications or security, Innovate has you covered. Visit Innovate today. Innovate, the IT solutions people. what it means is that the people don't want socialism they want more conservatism mr dorbachev tear down this wall it's the ricochet podcast with rob long and peter robinson i'm james lilacs and our guests victor davis hansen david limbaugh we'll be talking Trump, Hillary, servers, jail. Let's have ourselves a podcast. There you go again.

Yes, welcome everybody to this, the Ricochet Podcast, number 271. It's brought to you by The Great Courses. For a limited time, The Great Courses has a special offer for you, the Ricochet listener. You can get The Philosopher's Toolkit, how to be the most rational person in any room for up to 80% off. Go to thegreatcourses.com slash ricochet. Go to thegreatcourses.com slash ricochet. And of course, a little bit more about that later in the show.

And we're brought to you by Casper Premium Mattresses. That's a premium mattress for a fraction of the price delivered to your door. Casper is revolutionizing the mattress industry by cutting the cost of dealing with resellers and showrooms and passing that savings directly on to you. And we'll have a little coupon code for you later. Gosh, I wonder what that could be. We're also brought to you by, of course, this entity that is Ricochet itself. And here is one of the two entities that brought it to you, Rob Long.

Rob, good day, and why should anybody pay for this? They're getting it for free, for heaven's sakes. Let me tell you something. You just said one of the two entities that bring it to you, and that's actually, well, I know what you mean. It's not quite accurate. The entities that bring you Ricochet are the Ricochet members. Ricochet.com is a member organization.

It's a club, and we'd like you to join. If you're listening to this podcast and you are a member, along with the three of us, we welcome you. We're happy to have you, proud to be members along with you. If you are one of the many, many, many, many tens of thousands who are listening to this podcast who are not members, I understand why you are not a member. I get it. You don't want to join, or maybe you're thinking about joining. Listen, we don't need all of you to join. We just need those of you who are thinking about joining to come to Ricochet. Check us out, ricochet.com. Join for two months.

It's free. If you don't like it, you can tell us to buzz off. Just go to ricochet.com slash membership. Use the coupon code JOIN. You get 30 free days or you use the coupon code REJOIN. If you were once a member, you want to rejoin, but it doesn't really matter. You could use REJOINin get your 60 days free um check us out uh be a member for 60 days we guarantee you you will stick with us our you know we're out trying to raise money for a big big round of investment and one of the things we've we do is we dig into the stats of our

organization and some of the stats are, you know, with a growing organization, you want them to be bigger. And some of the stats are really, really, really proud of. And one of them we're really proud of is the number of people who become members of Ricochet who stay is astronomically high. We show it to people who are in this sort of very business we're in, you know, trying to, you know, what we call member retention. And they look at us like, well, we're going to have to hire auditors to prove that because that's the highest in the world. I'll tell you why it's high. It's high because our members are smart and our conversation is civil and because

once people kind of join a club, they want to stay members of the club. So that's probably you if you're listening to this podcast. It's probably you if you've been listening to this podcast and you think, ah, I'm going to do that today or tomorrow or this weekend. Do it. Please do it today, tomorrow, this weekend. Do it now. We really do need you.

We've got to get to that number 10,000. We really have to get to that number soon. And when we do, all of the high pitch of desperation you detect in my voice will go away. Is that what that is? Yeah. Oh. You thought it was computer noise. No.

Well, excellent. And yes, people should because it's going to be, I think rumor has it sometime in 2016, there's going to be a presidential election. And if you've been on Twitter or Facebook or anywhere on the internet, you know that the conversations about this election have already reached a level of insane name-calling, the likes of which we haven't seen since, oh, I don't know, the last one. But you're going to want a place to go where people get along and don't automatically sling the worst sort of insults at the mere implication that you are not behind Donald Trump, the only man who fights, the heir to Andrew Breitbart,

the only man who really tells it like it is, and even though he'll tell it like it is in a completely different fashion seven seconds later, contradicting the point he just made, he's a fighter. And that's what we like. We want somebody who just, you know, put that knuckle right in the puss. I tell you, I've had things happen on the Internet this week that i really don't want to recall because if you say a word against the saint of donald if you prove for example that he might not to be he might not be the most rock ribbed republican you've ever seen uh it's it's irrelevant to large numbers of people because uh they they love his blustering persona i kind of get and well yeah but you know

i wonder if there's a historical parallel to this. I wonder if perhaps we could find somebody back in, oh, I don't know, the classics. Somebody who 2,000 years ago channeled that very same spirit, and we could be reassured that history is perhaps repeating itself, but there are precedents for this, and the Republic wasn't destroyed by somebody like this. And if only there was a classicist, a noted classicist to whom we could speak. Anyway, Victor David Hanson is with us today, and we thank you so much for being on the podcast and welcome back soon. Hello. Victor?

Yes. Hi, it's Peter here. I'm getting a little bit of an echo on the line, which I think probably James and Rob are as well, which maybe was throwing things off just a bit here. However, Victor, Donald Trump is your man, right? I wrote – no, he's not. I wrote something yesterday in National Review and I've got a lot of crazy emails. Have you really? So explain Trump as a phenomenon, would you please?

Are we on the air yet? Yes, we are. We indeed are. Yes. Well, Donald Trump taps into a general frustration among 20% of the Republican base, I suppose. And what that frustration is, is it's an anger at Barack Obama. It's an anger at political correctness. It's an anger about the media and political class that lies. And I mean, whether it's telling us that all illegal immigration is basically a problem of giving dreamers amnesty when we know that a quarter of all federal inmates are illegal aliens or when it's a matter of saying that the economy is booming when we have the largest percentage of people not in the workforce in modern history or we have 20 trillion dollars we're reaching in aggregate debt or that the Iran deal is going to stop Iran from getting a bomb. There's just a feeling that government is not just not working.

We know that from the scandals at the IRS, the VA, the GSA, etc., but that it's somehow antithetical to people's interest, and there's this anger at this political class. Now, it's not studied or it's not analytical, because if it were, people would say, well, Donald Trump was just recently a conservative. They would never allow a Scott Walker, a Jeb Bush or a Marco Rubio in their recent history to have been a supporter of abortion on demand or single payer health or a big friend of the Clintons. So it's not really that they're saying, I like the Trump agenda. What they like

about Trump are these 30 to 60 second exclamations, these outbursts, where he says things that people cannot say. And he doesn't say them very well, but he says them with passion. And he makes fun of the political class. He sort of ridicules the political class. And they enjoy it. They like this bull in the china shop. They don't really care if the bull has nice horns or not. They just like the damage that he does. Victor, you said in your piece in National Review that he's appealing to about 15 to 20 percent of Republicans. So that's what? Probably under 10 percent of the country. So the question I'm about to ask is not along the lines of is America about to be overturned? But historical parallels here is – would you argue that there is – it's maybe part of human nature to seek the man on horseback?

Is there a little bit of the impulse that drew Argentines to Juan Peron or that during the 20s and 30s drew Europeans to – again, I'm not comparing Donald Trump to Mussolini. I'm trying to get at the impulse that people become so frustrated that they just want somebody to gallop in and fix it. Is that a fair comparison or is it totally different from that? No, no. You're quite right. Especially in the case of Mussolini who was a master showman on a rhetorician. But the thing about Trump is that we look – where do we get our news? We turn on television.

We get on the internet. We listen to radio. And we see a particular class and we see a particular class of politician and they do not seem genuine. And then this guy just gets to the stage and if John McCain, who's an icon, we're not supposed to ever question his service. He'd just blast him. And then Megyn Kelly gets on there. She's America's heroine now in journalism and he just destroys her and you're not supposed to do things like that. But there are certain things you see that, that are politically incorrect because John McCain sort of made a political career about

being captured. And that's a wonderful virtuous thing that he did during captivity. But there were people who thought that maybe he overplayed it a little bit. And the thing about Megyn Kelly is that she's a great journalist. She's no bimbo. She's educated. But she does get on that screen in dresses and short skirts and accentuates her sensuality. And people know that.

It's sort of a subtext you're not supposed to talk about. And then Trump comes out and he exposes these things and he wouldn't be able – I don't agree with all the things he says or I should say I don't agree with very many at all. But they resonate because there's an element of truth that he's able to exaggerate. Is he making the race better? Is he raising issues that need to be raised and no one else would raise? Yeah, he is up to a point, you see, because he's getting people angry. And that has the potential to be challenged, channeled by a more savvy politician, a Ted Cruz or Rubio or Walker or Fiorina.

But the problem is that Ross Perot not just lost George W. Bush, the campaign, when he got 19% of the vote. I mean, we all accept that in 92, but we forget that in 96, Bill Clinton didn't get 50% of the vote because Ross Perot got about 9.5%. So he may have even, even a lousy candidate like Bob Dole would have been very close had not Perot entered the race. So that 10 to 15 percent of the Republican base, I'm afraid that it it doesn't diminish in the general election. Those same 10 to 15 percent somehow stay there in the general election. If Trump wants to run for a third candidacy, that's a great danger that I see. Hey, Victor, it's Rob Long. Yes, Rob. Hey, how are you?

That's a very interesting point I had not thought of, which I mean, I understand people say he's Trump is tapping into anger and he's tapping into this and that. But the idea that he's tapping into to use it, you know, maybe a slightly, you know, not ricochet compliant phrase, tapping into a general sense of cultural BS that's out there, that we're all supposed to sort of accept certain lies and certain niceties. And the guy, the kid who points and says the emperor has no clothes for a while is the most popular kid in the country. The kid who says, well, wait a minute, Megan. I mean, you do wear those short skirts. He says, well, wait a

minute. The prisons are filled with illegal aliens. That person, whether he's going to be president or not, fulfills a useful function and maybe even reminds us all that we've been swallowing a lot of nonsense and we've been accepting a lot of things that aren't true. The question is how on earth – I mean actually what would the TikTok be for a politician who's running in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina and Florida and Nevada to actually capitalize on that in a primary. Well, I mean we can see where it leads. It leads to chaos, something like Jesse Ventura.

And that's what happened in Minnesota with Ventura, what happened in the United States where Trump to be elected because he's contradictory, he's mercurial, he's unstable, almost unhinged at times. So as I said, the problem is for the Republicans, they've got to get all these people energized out to vote because that's what happened in the last two elections. But in the meantime, if you're Carly Fiorina or you're Scott Walker or you're Ted Cruz, you're now jockeying for third, fourth place, right? You're not going to go after Trump.

You're going to go after each other. So underneath Trump, there's going to be a dogfight, right? See, I don't think you need to go after Trump, the man, but you need to go after his constituency and say, why couldn't Fiorina say, Donald Trump wants Mexico to pay for the wall. Everybody makes fun of that,

but let's have some specifics and say something like, $50 billion a year ago in remittances. The vast majority of those are sent by illegal aliens. That's a terrible drain and it's a boon to the South American, Latin American, Mexico economies who cynically send their people up here to get the largest percentage of foreign revenue in the case of Central America. Why can't we just say in the United States, if you send $50 billion, we're going to tax 10% of it if you're illegal. If you're a U.S. resident, fine. That would raise about $5 billion. The wall's about $25 billion. Five years we pay for the wall. Fiorina could do that. Stott Walker could do that. And they

could tap into what Trump is saying in a way that wouldn't polarize people. And that's what they need to do. Looking for reliable IT solutions for your business? At Innovate, we are the IT solutions people for businesses across Ireland. From network security to cloud productivity, we handle it all. Installing, managing, supporting, and reporting on your entire IT and telecoms environment so you can focus on what really matters, growing your business. Whether it's communications or security, Innovate has you covered. Visit Innovate today. Innovate, the IT solutions people. They need to take the Trump emotion and in systematic and systematic steady fashion, get some specifics and they will gradually chip away at that at that Trump constituency.

Is there anybody I mean, we started I don't know if you were on the line when when James was introduced to you and saying, I wonder if there's a figure from classics or a figure from history. Gosh, maybe even James could have asked that question. Oh, I'm sorry. Well, I mean, everybody. I'm sorry, James. Now you got to have another one that is james's question but it didn't know i'm just thinking back to the times when you know the late roman uh republic and you had guys like clodius pulker who were uh out of the optimist class and then channeling the anger of the yes that's one of the popularities how does that end how does that end exactly how does

it work when somebody uh from that class starts to take up the mantle? That's a very good point. We have two traditions of wealthy elites jumping over the middle class to appeal to the mob. And we even have these words in Greek, aklos or turba in Latin. And they represent this frenzied anger that wealthy people, the tribune of the people, that's somebody like Mark Anthony, for example, as you say, Clodius and Milo even. I love Milo. In Athenian terms, I mean, Catiline – in Roman terms, Catiline was an elite and almost overthrew the government. But in Athenian terms, somebody like Alcibiades was a demagogue as well.

And the idea – remember what Alcibiades said to the Athenians, you should like me because everybody makes fun that I'm extravagant and I put too many horses and chariots at the Olympic Games, but every time I use my money and people are envious of me, that reflects on your greater glory because I'm an Athenian. And it was very Trump what he did. But they don't end well because they don't have a platform and they're manipulating in a very cynical and transparent fashion the whims of the people. So they're the

enemies in authors like, you know, Sallust or Thucydides or Plutarch. And I don't think this emotion is going to end well for Trump. But all of that said, it's a good thing that you've got these enormous audiences watching these debates, these enormous turnouts, because people are discussing. If Hillary Clinton on the other side implodes, you're going to have the party of diversity with about four old white guys over 65 and one of them in the lead is going to be an unrepentant socialist so everybody says trump is doing this and that but the real unreported story is that the democratic party is in crisis and this is in a period where obama has for two years polled considerably below 50 percent and all of his major initiatives, whether it's health care, Obamacare or the Iran deal or the budget are polling way below 50 percent. And he's lost the Senate and the House and most of the state legislatures and governorship. So nobody's talking about this, but this president has almost single-handedly wrecked the Democratic Party.

And that's the real issue. If the Republicans win, you're never going to – you will not see an opportunity like that for any party in quite a long time. has 10 really good candidates, 10 plus, viable candidates, people who would be perfectly fine presidents and have a message and a record and are touching, I think, the full spectrum of Republican Party beliefs. We went into this primary field, or at least I did, thinking, well, this is going to be sort of interesting, kind of thoughtful primary season where we've got a bunch of different people up there. It's the Democratic Party really that needs a Trump, don't you think? It's the Democratic Party that needs that kind of rabble-rousing, class-based, basically anti-elite, shake-em-up character to kind of break a few windows. Joe Biden's moment. What would the Democrats do if in the general election

there was a ticket of Rubio and Fiorina versus Biden and Kerry? I mean, what would you say? You'd say the youth is on the Democratic side, diversity is on the Democratic side, gender is on it. No, you wouldn't. And whereas Republicans really don't care, they're not picking Fiorina and Rubio because of their gender or ethnic status. The Democrats most surely are. And yet they do the opposite.

They kind of say it's your turn now, old white guy, you know, sort of like Bob Dole. So it's going to be a very exciting race. And what I just would sum it up is that the the media class and the other politicians don't need to go after Trump ad hominem. They just need to say he did a great idea to raise this issue. He's right that he raised it because he has these communication skills and his flamboyance. But here, let me just tell you how this would work or not work and then give some details and try to do it with passion. Victor, Iran, 44 Democrats in the Senate, 46 if you count the two independents, including Bernie Sanders, 12 have said they support the Iran deal. One, Chuck Schumer of New York, who's particularly important because of his seniority, because of his sheer force of

personality, and because he wants to be the leader of the Democrats in the Senate beginning next year. One, Chuck Schumer has come out against the Iran deal. Is the deal in trouble or is it going to coast through? Well, I think it's in trouble because if you look at the wire stories coming out at Reuters, and these are biased usually, or AP, or even in the mainstream media, about 60 to 70 percent of them are negative. Every day we hear about either some crazy Iranians saying this is not what we really meant, or a side deal that the UN agency won't let us read, or confusion on the part of Kerry, or some wild charge that anybody who opposes this wants to destroy the U.S. currency or wants a war. And so the momentum is not going well with the administration simply because the deal is

illegitimate. And it should have been a treaty that would have required two-thirds of the vote. Everything about it today and then in the historical context is not good. And so the longer that we wait, the more opposition is going to build. If I was Obama, he would want this vote immediately. But the longer they drag it out, I think the more people are going to be skeptical of it. Well, in the future, next time we have you on, we'll talk about an ancient Greek deal to prevent Persia from having a path to siege engines and catapults. That didn't work too well, did it?

It didn't work too well either. Victor Davis Hanson, thanks again for being on the podcast. We'll see you down the road and have a great weekend. Thank you. You know, he mentioned before Jesse Ventura, and there are a lot of parallels that people make about that. It doesn't hurt, of course, that Jesse said, sure, I'll be Veep for Trump. But there's a little bit of difference between the two and actually jesse was a better candidate and i was here in the

epicenter of that i mean i used to walk into the radio studio after jesse was vacating it during his mayoral period when he was right fun on the radio and bombastic but when he became a candidate for governor he became a sensible guy he had a certain bullheaded charm to him and he wasn't the most polished of thinkers. But he was up against a guy who was – I mean you want to talk establishment in Minnesota, he was going up against the descendant of Hubert Humphrey who's sainted and Norm Coleman. And so Jesse came across as a real interesting, alive figure who was connected to the people but wasn't pandering to them. And people from all – the entire Minnesota spectrum voted for that guy because he wasn't a bomb thrower. He portrayed himself as a reasonable guy.

And the reason he failed in office was something that Trump may or may not have, and that is he had no party. Because he wasn't Democrat or Republican, he had no party, so he had no allies, so he was always a man trying to build coalitions. And if Trump was president, I don't really think that he'd be completely abandoned by the Republican Party. But that's the thing. Jesse was, believe it or not, not a dunce, not a dullard. He was a rational man.

The question is whether he was the most rational man in the room. Well, I don't know. He might have been if he'd gone to the great courses. I was wondering where were you going. That's fantastic. Well, what I just said was true and what I'm about to say is true as well. Oh, great. I will fall silent now.

But I was enjoying it and I actually had a response to it. That's what I love about your segues is that I get sucked in, and then I want to say something about them, but then you're already into your segues. Well, I was. Anyway, the great courses, of course, are these engaging videos and audio lectures, and they're taught by top experts in the field. It's an incredible opportunity for people like you who love to learn. That's why you're listening to the podcast, right? Am I right? I'm right. Now, the great courses selections on the great masters, for example, Mozart, Beethoven, Brahms, Tchaikovsky, each taught by music historian

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Order today. Go to thegreatcourses.com slash ricochet. That's thegreatcourses.com slash ricochet. And thank them, of course, for sponsoring this, the Ricochet podcast. – how you would lay it out as President Trump, I think we should think about that. He's the frontrunner. I mean everybody makes jokes and says, oh, he'll never make it. But all right, just say he does. of the United States to – I mean on our side to actually have an actual effect to be useful to our side, it almost doesn't matter. It matters who it is. But what mostly matters is going to be the nominee. But if he says to me – and by the way, it will be Attorney General Ted Cruz in my administration.

I think Attorney General Ted Cruz is a good thing for America if Ted Cruz doesn't become the nominee and I don't think he's going to become the nominee. I'm just wargaming it just the way it looks like in the future. I'm not sure Ted Cruz is going to make it all the way to the convention. But that's important to me and I want a president who I think understands why it's important to have an attorney general who's incredibly conservative, right? I mean I think Peter will back me up on the need to have an incredibly conservative attorney general. I mean, I want an attorney general as a rhino squish, as the rhino squish on the podcast. I want an attorney general who makes me uncomfortable with his conservative views and values. Well, that's a low bar. I want someone even I consider conservative.

OK. Yes. Maybe I'm wrong here and maybe I'm alone and maybe I'm just squishier than Rob. Such a thing is detectable and possible. But I want an attorney general who's going to follow the law. When I hear, for example, that, you know, well, Hillary Clinton's not going to be indicted. Everybody knows that. But perhaps they'll go after Huma or Karen Mills.

I think – wait a minute. Hold on. If she did something wrong, I missed the part of the Constitution that gives her a pass. It's not that I want a conservative attorney general who will do – who will prosecute the people I don't like. I want somebody who will prosecute everybody who needs prosecuting for that matter. Let's bring out a – yes, Peter? Oh, I see that was a segue going right ahead. That was, yes.

And I built up a head of steam there, which now has dissipated. But it was almost floral-scented, and I perhaps can never – well, you know, someone left my segue out in the rain, and I don't think that I can make it because it took so long to construct it, as the great song goes. David Limbaugh, how are you doing? Welcome to this train wreck podcast here today. We're talking about whether or not we are a nation of laws or a nation of women. Hillary Clinton, for example, could she be indicted? Should she be indicted? Will she be indicted?

Can you hear me first? That's the main question. Okay, so the answer is, as a lawyer and a constitutionalist, I don't care about the law or the Constitution. Just run her into jail. I mean, based on her past, her relationship, her incriminating relationship with her husband who's committed multiple felonies, just, oh, don't even. Just dispense with all the, just trump her right in there. I mean, if Trump were to give her a trial, it would be, okay, she's charged. She's guilty.

She's actually executed. That'd be it. Can I just amend my previous remarks? I would say Attorney General David Limbaugh. How about that? There you go. For sure. David, how are you? It's lovely to have you back. Peter here.

Great. How are you? Thanks for having me. Fine. You actually like Donald Trump. Yeah, I am really amused by him. I'm a little bit nervous about how popular he is in the polls, because I'm kind of a cruise guy. I mean, I like Walker cruise and some other people. Um, and you know, uh, Trump has not been conservative long enough to make me comfortable. And I don't really think he still is conservative at the risk of looking for reliable it solutions for your business at innovate. We are the it solutions people for businesses across ireland from network security to cloud productivity we handle it all installing managing supporting and reporting on your entire it and telecoms environment so you can focus on what really

matters growing your business whether it's communications or security, Innovate has you covered. Visit Innovate today. Innovate, the IT solutions people. Infuriating some of his monomaniacal supporters. I love his supporters, so I don't want to be insulting and call them crazies at all. But I just wish we would look at the whole picture, the whole package. And when he advocates punitive taxes on the rich and he formerly advocated Obamacare and supported Obama in various things. I mean I'm just – I'm not convinced he's a complete, full-package conservative, and I think we need one to return the country around. So you have – I'm quoting you from a recent column you wrote. So please, my establishment friends, I think that means Rob. So please, my establishment friends, quit worrying about Trump.

What do you mean by that, David? Well, this guy could ruin everything. If he runs as a third party candidate, he elects Hillary Clinton. Why should we not worry about that? Well, no, they should worry about that. But what they should do is quit insulting him and driving him to a third party because their actions will then be counterproductive. The way to handle him is to be respectful toward him. And maybe then he will not be inclined to run as a third party. Yeah, oh, that would be terrible if he runs as a third party candidate. So Cruz versus, give us, say, your top three.

Well, I love Cruz and I love Carly Fiorina. I love Ben Carson and I love Walker. But I, and also, by the way, I love Rubio except for immigration. Right. And I can't figure him out because the problem with immigration is not just his substantive position but his authenticity. He seems so authentic to me, but he's been so squirrely on immigration and the way he's denied it and all that. But hasn't he repented? Good grief, you wrote a book about Christianity.

You have to be willing to welcome people back to the fold, right, David? If he has authentically, and I'm overusing that term, if he has repented and means it, oh, I'm all for it. But you see, every time, every other day I read something. Well, really read what Rubio said on this other network. He really didn't mean it. But he doesn't seem like a dishonest guy to me. Does he to you, Peter? You have a good discernment.

No, no. He doesn't seem dishonest to me. The way I read it, I may be wrong. Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention to this. Maybe there are details that I've been missing. The way I read it is very simple. He thought he could fix the immigration problem. He was young enough and naive enough to think that he could work across the aisle with a few Democrats. And Chuck Schumer took him. And

Marco Rubio has realized that he made a terrible mistake and that he said it over and over again. I take him at his word. He is now convinced that the way to fix immigration reform is beginning by getting control of the border. And that strikes me as pretty good, right? Absolutely. If that's his real position. But let me just tell you something. It really bothers me when people on our side actually think you can work with Democrats. They are thoroughly corrupt. There's nothing good about this party. And to really think you can work with them is scary to me. And I'm not a cynic. I'm just saying I've observed them the last 20 years and they've gone.

They were really bad then. I can't tell you how much worse they are now. They are so bad that that we really can't tell the difference between them and socialists except that socialists aren't as bad on foreign policy. Well, not only we can't tell the difference, Debbie Wasserman Schultz couldn't tell you the difference. Hey, David, it's Rob Long. Welcome. Thank you for

joining us again. You wrote, can we just change the subject a little bit to something a little bit more fun than the end of the civilization as we know it. You wrote a column on Newsmax. We'll put the link in the show notes, which I loved. You touched on something I've always wondered. You don't think Obama wants Hillary to win.

Did I say that or is that what Rush said yesterday on his show? I don't remember saying that, but I but I but I wouldn't surprise me if that were the case. I wouldn't surprise you if that were the case or if you had said it. Well, well, either. I think maybe it was not this this cycle, the last cycle, maybe his last pocket. You said you don't think that the sitting president is never fully behind the successor. I don't remember saying that. Really, I heard Rush talking about that yesterday, but I'll own it anyway as a matter of fraternal loyalty. And Obama is so egotistic. I think he would support somebody he thinks would advance his legacy. If he ultimately thinks Hillary would, he would support her.

If he thinks Biden would, he would support him. You don't think he's sitting there in the Oval Office thinking, after me, shouldn't it be – it should be just chaos? Well, no, because I don't think he wants – well, he doesn't mind chaos as long as it leads to the Cloward, piven, complete dismantling of the republic. But I think he does not want Obamacare dismantled. So he wants a successor in there. He's done so many terrible things. Cruz has announced that on his first day of office, he would repeal every executive order that Obama has outlawed, an illegal order that he's issued. So no, he's got to have some kind of fellow socialist to succeed him. But there isn't one. There's only one, right? Oh, no, they're all – these Democrats, they're race baiters.

They're socialists. Wait, so you – okay, so you don't see a difference. I'm not saying one's better or worse, but you don't see a difference in the way a President Hillary Clinton is going to rule versus the way a President Bernie Sanders is going to rule, the way a President Al Gore would go? Well, I don't know because you can't tell what Hillary really believes. The one good thing about Bernie Sanders is he's honest, and he would be a full-blown – well, actually, I don't even know what full-blown socialism means anymore. We have it. We have it. Yeah, beyond what we have.

It's what we got. But we do have Hillary's statements that she would double down on Obama's policies in a variety of areas, which tells me – and I think the reason she would – yeah, she started out as a bona fide radical. Now she has kind of evolved into more of a narcissist-like bill than she is a radical. So her first priority is promoting herself. Her second is radicalism. And I think she now sees radicalism in an opportunistic, utilitarian way. The more radical she is, the better chance she has of being elected. You know, we all used to think that Obama would play it safe at the election in the 2012 campaign. And the way he won is doubling down on his divisiveness and his radicalism, and he won.

She sees all that, and I don't think – I don't see her playing to the middle at all. She may later, but she's not now. David – One last question. How much – I mean, you've written about the Constitution. You've written about presidential power. How much – I'm looking for like one of those old-fashioned scale pie charts, right? presidential orders, actions, behind the scenes, appointments, the influence of your appointments, and how much of it is giving speeches and legislation. I mean to say, before you were

on, we were talking about how great it would be whoever wins the presidency if you had, made sure you had Attorney General Ted Cruz Cruz because you want somebody in there who understands how to appoint judges and how to prosecute cases and which cases not to prosecute and which rules not – all that stuff. How much of the presidency right now, the modern contemporary 2016 presidency, is discretionary? Do you understand what I'm saying? Well, I will say this. I remember, and Peter, you probably remember this. Remember the imperial presidency, that book? It was written during the Nixon years, I think. Schlesinger.

Schlesinger, yes. And of course, that's been a pendulum thing, back and forth, power between Congress and the president. And it's usually the liberals, when they're in charge, whatever branch they're in charge of gains power. They won't admit it. Now, I think Obama, you talk about an imperial presidency. He has expanded the power of the presidency to an alarming degree

and just does things defiantly, whether it's on his immigration orders or his EPA. And I think he is profoundly, shockingly, horrifyingly powerful. And even to the extent that, for example, the IRS, the direction of the IRS, there's no independence in these various offices, the administrative agencies under him. The IRS was doing his dirty work in investigating conservatives. The EPA is doing what he dictates, and now Hillary is not being investigated vigorously or hasn't been yet because of him. Now he may be changing now or he may have resisted as long as he can, but there isn't

any independence. Conservative wouldn't do that by definition. So in terms of the power of the presidency, even though that power, the precedent for the power has been established, conservatives won't abuse it by nature like liberals will. Hillary will double down on it. I don't know if that answers your question. David, you just got me thinking about historical parallels. This had not occurred to me until my friend David Limbaugh came on. When Ronald Reagan was determined to aid the Contras in Nicaragua, he did so only to the extent that Congress permitted. It was vote after vote after vote. Ali North tried in effect to go behind the back of Congress. He was also going behind the back of the president and get aid to the Contras without doing so in the public sphere and without doing so subject to Congress.

He almost brought down the entire administration and the president himself was appalled. Contrast that with Barack Obama where we go into Afghanistan, out of Afghanistan, into Iraq, out of Iraq. We've killed hundreds of people with drone attacks from the air in Afghanistan and Pakistan and Yemen. And now we're getting this treaty, which he is refusing to call a treaty, but he is clearly portraying it as a solemn and binding obligation between the United States and Iran. I'm sorry, a moment ago I said we went into Iran, I meant Iraq. All of this with only the scarcest congressional oversight, no real congressional approval

until we come to the Iran deal. It is just an astounding change in the way the president of the United States conducts foreign policy. It's just – I couldn't make your point better. Yeah, and look how cynical this is. You just reminded me of an analogy here. He treats Obamacare as a tax when it serves his purposes to get it through, and then when it's being challenged by the Supreme Court, he goes the other way or vice versa. He treats this agreement, this deal, this sordid deal from hell with Iran

as an agreement that's not binding for purposes of the constitutionality and the approval requirement, but he treats it as binding as a treaty when he's talking about how substantial it is. So for congressional approval, it's not a treaty, but for its force and effect afterwards, it has to be treated as a treaty. Whatever works for him to slam his power through. The DREAM Act, he said he didn't have the power

to implement these orders executively, to allow these DREAMers, he said he didn't have the power to implement these orders executively to allow these dreamers amnesty. Two weeks later, he just did it, even though he admitted a few weeks earlier he didn't have the power. This guy has no respect for the Constitution. He has contempt for America's founding. He has a chip on his shoulder about race. He is not in our corner. That's why when he negotiates with Iran, you can't even be confident that he wants to present the best interests of the United States. And I mean that as sincerely as I can mean it. He's rooting for the other side half the time

because he sees himself as on the other side, even though he's changed the hell out of this country already. He ought to think, hasn't he done enough damage that he thinks America is good now? No. No, he's still not satisfied because it's still standing. We're not good enough yet. No. David, one more historical question for you or question of historical parallels. This also just came to mind.

I think it was last week that we – on the podcast last week, we said that Hillary Clinton reminds us more and more of Richard Nixon, the impulse towards secrecy, trying to cover things up. Even when you look at her on camera, the shiftiness of the eyes, the discomfort and dealing with the press. The government liberalism. I'm not sure that that's – I'm thinking it over. I'm not sure that that's fair to the American people because we didn't know quite how shifty and dishonest Richard Nixon was until after he'd been elected twice. The Watergate scandal broke after his reelection in 1972. So what we have now, Hillary Clinton, you said nobody knows what she believes. And the curious thing about the Democratic Party is that nobody cares what she believes.

Oh, that's true. It's purely a question of buying off this group. And the curious thing about the Democratic Party is that nobody cares what she believes. Oh, that's true. It's purely a question of buying off this group. And so I'm starting to think that Hillary Clinton, the real parallel is Leonid Brezhnev. The corruption is so thorough that not only she but her supporters are just going through the motions of pretending they have ideals. This is purely trying to buy people off. Is that right? I think that's right, but she did have – I wouldn't call them ideals.

I don't think you can call Marxism an ideal anymore. But she had that. I mean she early on wrote papers on Alinsky and all that, and she's a full-blown liberal radical growing up, even way more than Bill. But she's gone through so much now, and she's so hungry for power, she's willing to shift her positions, is all I'm saying. She's definitely still a very committed liberal. But first and foremost with the Clintons is the Clintons. Secondarily is their liberalism. So, David, what does she want? I mean, really.

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Because she couldn't pardon herself. That's why. Well, do you think part of it could be that she craves being the first female president? That's a big deal. Second, um, and I'm no psychiatrist, but, but could, could she have so much, uh, such a sense of entitlement because of all she's done, all the arrows she's taken for bill, all the way she's prostituted herself figuratively for bill through the years and lied and acted like she had and gone after the bimbos, done everything to betray whatever principles she claimed to have, and she's earned it is what I think. I think that's true. I also think that usually at this point in your life, if you're Hillary Clinton and you retire, you want to go to the place and be with your friends and your husband and knit or whatever, and she doesn't have that.

I mean that's not what she's got. They're political animals on power trips. It's a sad thing. David, that sort of interfamilial psychoanalysis is simply beneath you. On the other hand, of course, we know that Bush invaded Iraq because his dad did too and he wanted to finish the job, so that makes sense. Good point. Thank you for being with us, sir.

We will see you in all the usual places. And we have one of the podcasts coming up soon. Can I just say, I fully prepared for this podcast not to be a crazy lunatic, raving maniac like I usually am. I failed because it's innate. It's part of me. It's who I am. It is I.

I'm glad you said that. I was feeling bad. I thought, you know, we just riled up David. He's going to have the worst day. He's going to go yell at everybody. But you're right. No, this is you. No, but I'm happy as I'm yelling.

Why are you so mad? I'm not mad. I'm happy being pissed. Oh, David. If the needle's in the red, David's having a great day. That's good. Holy David. There you go.

Thank you, sir. We'll talk to you later. Thank you, David. And, of course, when Peter, when you mentioned that Hillary reminded you of Leonid Brezhnev, that meant, of course, that our great Photoshopper E.J. Hill is probably scouring the Internet right now for large eyebrows that he can graft onto her face for the appropriate illustration. And it also made me wonder, is Brezhnev under glass somewhere? Or was that only Vlad who was put out on the glass?

I think it was only Vlad who, to this day, thanks to the miracles of Soviet technology, apparently hasn't aged a day after 90 years of slumber. And maybe that's because he's on a Casper mattress. apparently hasn't aged a day after 90 years of slumber. And maybe that's because he's on a Casper mattress, because I know that no matter how long you sleep on one of those, you wake up looking even better than you did when you went to bed the night before. And that's because Casper, well, you don't know, do you? That's what I'm going to tell you here. Casper is an online retailer of premium mattresses

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technologies, latex foam and memory foam, come together for better nights and hence brighter days. Here's the deal. Risk-free trial and return policy. You try sleeping on Casper for 100 days withchet. That's $50 off on any mattress purchase if you go to Casper.com slash ricochet and use the coupon code ricochet. Terms and conditions apply, of course. And you might find yourself in the company of Jex Reffy in the chat room who noted a little while ago as the show began,

before we had even mentioned Casper, he said, quote, I just got my Casper delivered to me last night. Great night of sleep. An unprovoked, unprompted testimonial from somebody in the Ricochet community. So yeah, casper.com slash Ricochet coupon code Ricochet. 50 bucks off and start sleeping smarter instantaneously. Rob, you were about to say something there when I brought up Lennon and Brezhnev. No, I was going to say something there when I brought up Lenin and Brezhnev. No, I was just going to say that it's a very expensive process

apparently to keep those bodies embalmed that way. There are only a few artisans who still know how to do it. Eventually, they're going to give that up. It is something of a metaphor, isn't it? Yes. It is a living or I guess a dead metaphor.

Yes. Well, there was a metaphor on Slate today, but we're going to get to that after we talk to two of the invaluable behind-the-scenes people who make Ricochet possible. Keep it running. Keep it clicking. Keep it from falling apart. Make sure that the art's in the right place and justified right. Everybody say hello to the Ricochet interns, Will Thompson and Spencer Moffat. Hey, guys. Hello.

Thanks for having me on. There's only one hello, aren't there two of you? Hello. Hello. You know, you guys will not shut up when you're in the live chat, and now we just get this deep teenager hello.

Somebody give your name, and then I'm tossing you over to Uncle Rob. Yeah. This is William. Can you hear me all right? We can hear you, William. All right, good. This is Spencer.

William and Spencer, thank you for joining us. This is Rob in LA. So, okay, so we're having you do a bunch of stuff, and some of it is editorially kind of important. You guys kind of put together a style sheet for us? Yes, that is correct. What was the weirdest part of the style sheet? Which way? We should say, if you're listening and you don't know what a style sheet is, a style sheet, we're trying to come up with a way that on Ricochet we do things.

When we say USA, do we say U.S.A.? Do we do USAL1? Quotes inside – all that stuff that like is sort of the house style. What was the weirdest thing you had to work on? Probably trying to find just some of the consistencies like for different names such as like Obamacare and then there's others like Muammar Gaddafi. There's like 83 different spellings. And he's dead. Imagine if he were still alive.

Yeah. And then I had this brainwave. So that's the thing. I think everyone should have smart interns because I thought, OK, if Trump runs third party, he's got to get on ballots, right? I mean there's a process and the thing – things always either come together or fall apart at the process level. So I said, why don't we – we're going to post this. You guys are going to post it, not me. The research on what does Trump have to do in each state to get on each state's ballot?

It starts to get expensive, right? I mean, when you run a third party race, it gets expensive. So you guys split it up and you read it. How hard is it to get on a third party, to run a third party these days? You have to jump through quite a few loops, actually, and even more so in the Democratic states than the Republican states, which I really think is going to hurt Trump even more so in the Republicans, just because he won't be getting on ballots like Vermont or Massachusetts. It'll be states like Georgia, which could be close if Trump runs.

I don't know if that was Will or Spencer, but... That was William. All right, then is this Spencer speaking? Yes, this is. Okay, Spencer. You guys are high schoolers, right? Yes. How anomalous are you in your particular high school?

In other words, do you stand out as, oh, it's those guys, or are there more of you than your particular high school? In other words, do you stand out as, oh, it's those guys? Or are there more of you than perhaps people would see? Make a great, overarching broad generalization about your generation, please. Yeah, I'd say the majority of the kids my age are pretty liberal, especially

in my school. I get into a lot of arguments with kids about various topics. a lot of Fox News attacks. Oh, that's the sign of a very smart and plugged in person. But I have to ask, what is their primary news source? Is it memes on Tumblr? Is it, it's not Facebook. Is it snarky little Snapchat conversations gleaned from Twitter quotes? Where are they getting their news? Well, in all honesty, I don't think that that many kids my age are up to date with the news in entirety.

The one that's really big is the global warming. They love that. At least once a week. But I would say there's not that many kids that are that well-informed. And it's surprising, really. You could say somebody in my history class this year asked, where's Massachusetts? And it was just shocking to see the level of disconnect between kids my age and politics. Just to be clear, you don't live in Connecticut, right?

No, no. When you argue with them and you actually give them facts, what's the response? Codswaddle of the most pandering sort. Wow, you are conservative because my daughter's in high school and she's dealing with all these kids who think that bernie sanders is the coolest thing ever you know just the way that young kids naturally gravitate to 70 year old men with white hair coming out of their ears but i was telling my daughter about these strange little sexual fantasies that bernie was keen to write back in college and she would

tell people this, and they would just simply not believe it, A. And then, B, when it was proved, immediately discount it because it ruined something and it sullied their wonderful, intact, little glistening bubble. And I imagine you have the same experience that when somebody brings up global warming and you talk about the pause and solar activity

and the rest of it, that it's all irrelevant because, man, we're doing something to the earth, man. I mean, it's all emotion-based. Do you see, however, in your peers, in your general peer group, because we all went through this as young people, do you see that there's a possibility that these people may be engaged with the facts or are they just going to float in a bubble of emotion for the rest of their days?

Again, please make a sweeping generalization about your generation for me. Well, I would say that they probably will float on their bubble until it's popped, and it will be popped. Certainly in 2008, there was a lot more bubbling. Maybe that was just because we were in third grade, but after, you know... Okay, well, that was uncalled for.

Yeah. That was really uncalled for. After seven years of Obama, I think their bubble has been popped a bit. And if Hillary is elected, certainly it will be – continue to be popped. Well, one can only hope. Who do you guys like for 2016 then? Who on the GOP side has the youth and the initiative and the forward-looking thinking, etc., etc.? I like Bobby Jindal, but he's so far out of the top ten that I wouldn't say it's realistic for him to get nominated. Why do you like Bobby Jindal?'s just for that very reason he's so

far out of the top 10 i'm surprised he even came to your attention oh well you look at his record as governor is uh louisiana i mean you put it up to um all the other governors i mean he's right up there and he's done a lot with unemployment um among other things so great. So what grade are you guys going to be seniors next year? I'm going to be a junior. Sophomores and juniors in high school still, right? Good Lord. And you're an expert on Bobby Jindal's record. Okay, so that was William, I think.

Spencer, who do you like? Spencer. That was Spencer. Okay, William, who do you like? I would have to go with Marco Rubio right now, specifically because of the age of the Democrats. I think it would be a shame if we didn't take advantage of the young vote. And I think Marco Rubio symbolizes the Republicans in the 21st century the best, and I think he would be our best chance to win. On immigration, he's really iffy and that

bothers and concerns me, but I like his chances of winning. Got it. This is unbelievable. You're not even old enough to vote yet and you're already making political calculations. Well, he's a little soft here, but still he's our best shot at taking it. I'm impressed. Well, good luck guys. We'll talk to you after a couple years in college and see whether or not the tsunami of peer influence has whipped you around 180 degrees. And then we'll castigate you wildly here on the podcast.

But in the meantime, we thank you for being the interns. Ladies and gentlemen, Will Thompson and Spencer Moffitt. See you later. Thanks, guys. Thank you. It was a pleasure. Take care, gentlemen. Oh, by the way, Rob had to drop off. He's got a new television show, Hollywood Stars. What do they know? Do they know

things? Let's find out. It's some sort of game show or something. So he is gone to a meeting. And Peter, before we leave ourselves here, I mentioned before that Slate was angry about something. And I know what you're thinking. How could that possibly be? It's such a well-reasoned organization? But it's true. And there's something very indicative of liberalism in general about this headline be a good thing, right? But the symbolism is crushing because once it was a sign of the days when we spent public

money on educating poor people, poor children to say their ABCs and their one, two, threes. And the article goes on to say that studies have shown that Sesame Street has done as much as Head Start, which maybe isn't how they want to put it. The best argument against Sesame Street I ever heard was somebody who said, which maybe isn't how they want to put it. The best argument against Sesame Street I ever heard was somebody who said it doesn't teach children how to learn, it teaches them how to watch television. It is a very early instruction on how to understand the vocabulary of television. Looking for reliable IT solutions for your business?

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or at least one that's more so than we have today, I think is a bit speech. It's an entertainment show for kids. It's a babysitter. But the very fact that it's going to be public, privately funded a little bit more now in order to continue is crushing symbolism and that's i mean to me that says so much about 90 of what you see on slate here's something that in the end may have a a salutary effect but we can't deal with the symbolism of it all because the symbolism is a motive and a motive is the way in which we view the entire world Did you let your kids watch Sesame Street? They did watch some Sesame Street, as I recall. They came, my older kids at least, were just the right age, maybe that's the wrong way to put it, for Barney, the purple dinosaur, whom I just detested.

But there was a little bit of, but we didn't let them watch all that much television by the way i have no was barney on pb i have no idea whether barney was on pbs no i don't think so no and we avoided him into i just refused to acknowledge his existence i love you you love me we're a happy happy family with you with the knickknack paddywhack yeah exactly yeah i cringe even now. Probably William and Spencer were raised on it, though. Well, then that may be a hopeful sign because if listening to Anodyne Twaddle like that for the first few years of your life hardens your heart against this sort of saccharine emotional nonsense, then perhaps you do grow up to be somebody who takes a little gimlet eye towards many of these things. All right.

Well, let's take a look at the week ahead. We're not going to have a great big next week's big story because it seems to be it's already unfolding. The media is taking note of Hillary's server. And there's a lot going on about what's on it. Now, nothing is on it apparently. Right. But my question is, is there nothing on it or is there nothing, nothing? Because when people delete emails, right, they just put them in the trash and they empty the trash and some people know that

that means they're still there you can look for them but if that drive was zeroed out i mean if it went through nsa level wiping right doesn't ought that not make people think that there was a level of of concealment here that goes beyond the mere technical abilities and desires of Hillary and her staff? Oh, absolutely. It should. By the way, as best I can tell, this is still breaking this morning. But the phrase that everybody that all the reports seem to be using is that it was professionally wiped, professionally cleaned. I like that. So that probably means they can't retrieve anything, right? Well, you never know. I mean these guys are really good at getting these stuff.

If – yes. If every sector on that drive, if every little tiny microscopic little bit had been overwritten with zeros 250 times. And then they dumped 16 gigabytes of data on top of it and done the same thing again. Yeah, at some point you just can't get the stuff back. But where was I reading it the other day? Apparently one of the emails mentions a book that she requested, which had a chapter in it about how to securely erase your email. And so she neglected to securely erase the email that requested the book about security. Well, as we're being told now by our bettors on Twitter, all Hillary really wanted to do was to have email like a normal person.

Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Well, so here's to me the big story of the week. We're off next week, by the way. Yes, we are. But the big story that's likely to – well, the one that interests me is whether Biden actually gets into the race, whether he's really serious about it. And it looks as though from the way his people seem to be leaking to reporters, which is – they're not leaking. They're actually using the reporters. He's serious enough to be sending up a few trial balloons. He's serious enough to be making telephone calls. I just live for the moment when the Democrats themselves start saying some of the things that we were just saying. Now, wait a moment, Mrs. Clinton. Why did you have that

hard drive wiped if there weren't anything, if there was nothing on it that you were – I mean let them start arguing among themselves. That's the moment I'm yearning for. Exactly. Decided that it's not going to be the first woman president, but instead the better choices are two senior men of the white persuasion, Bernie or Joe. Bernie or Joe or Al. Did you see that? There's a report now that Al Gore is looking at the race. Yes, I think Mickey Cow said on Twitter the other day that Al Gore no longer looks like Al Gore. He looks like the container for Al Gore.

We'll leave you with that thought, folks. We'd like to thank Victor Davis Hanson, of course, for bringing a classical and a modern note to the podcast. David Limbaugh, who brings his usual... Sometimes, we've got to pour some coffee in that guy. Maybe just a little electric shock or something to wake him up, because it's just snooze film, man, when he's on.

And, of course, thanks to the interns, Will Thompson and Spencer Moffitt. And big, huge, large thanks to thegreat, Will Thompson and Spencer Moffitt. And big, huge, large thanks to thegreatcourses.com slash ricochet, which is where you ought to go to start your learning experience and casper.com slash ricochet for a mattress that'll make you sleep, not make you help you sleep better than you've ever slept before in your life. Take it from me. I sleep on one and I rest with it rise with a sparkle in my eye. We're off for a couple of weeks. So by the time we do this again,

my voice should have descended from my nose and this cold should be over. Peter will be back, Rob will be back, and we'll see you all there. But we'll also see you in the comments at Ricochet 2.0. Bye-bye, chat room. And I know she'll be the death of me At least we'll both be numb And she'll always get the best of me The worst is yet to come But at least we'll both be beautiful

And stay forever young This I know This I know She told me don't worry About it She told me don't worry No more We both know we can't go Don't worry about it. She told me don't worry no more. We both know we can't go without it.

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And I know she'll be the death of me At least we'll both be numb And she'll always get the best of me The worst is yet to come All the misery was necessary when what deep in love i know i know when i know she told me don't worry about it she told me don't worry no more we both know we can't go without it. She told me you'll never be alone. I can feel my face when I'm with you.

But I love it. But I love it. I can feel my face when I'm with you. Ricochet. Join the conversation. But I love it But I love it But I love it She told me don't worry about it She told me don't worry no more We both know we can't go without it. She told me

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