The Ricochet Podcast - Wild About Milhouse

Episode Date: October 31, 2014

This week, our old pal Harry Shearer stops by to discuss his new web series Nixon’s The One. Also, Rob and James discuss the new book they’ve contributed to (yes, you must buy a copy of The Seven Deadly Virtues), and recap the big DC Ricochet meet up and the NRI event Rob presided over earlier this week. Then, will taking over the Senate be a disaster for the Republicans or does Obama want an... Source

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It's the Ricochet Podcast with Peter Robinson and Rob Long. I'm James Lalix, and our guest today is Harry Shearer, man of many voices, many movies, and now a YouTube series. Let's find ourselves another tagline. There you go again. Welcome everybody to the Ricochet Podcast number 236. I'm James Lyle. We're brought to you today by Harry's Shave. Listen, if you're one of those guys who uses an electric razor,

you've probably gone through seven screaming fuzzbusters in your time. The battery dies, the razors go blunt. Hey, be a man. Get a real shave. We'll talk to you a little bit later about Harry's shave and why you can get money off. Oh, I'll just tell you now. Coupon code RICOSHET at harrys.com and you get $5 off your first order.

Also brought to you by Encounter Books for 15% off any title. Go to EncounterBooks.com and use the coupon code RICOSHET at your checkout. This week's feature title is Please Stop Helping Us. Liber liberals make it harder for blacks to succeed by jason reilly and of course we're brought to you by ricochet.com itself and and rob long is burning for you to join up and throw money his way and rob why don't you tell them all about the site i would love to tell you why to join but you know one of the things you do you get when join, you get the right to come to a member meetup and James, you and I went to a fantastic member meetup in Washington, DC on Monday night.

We thought we'd have a dozen, 14 people. We had like 40, 50 people. We crowded a bar. We basically crowded people out. People moved and gave us dirty looks because we were – there were so many of us there and it was a lot of fun to see everybody and to talk and to sort of joke around. And we hope that you join so that you can come to one of these meetups and also interact with us on the site. And if you don't want to take my word for it, please listen to Ricochet member Hair Force One tell you why you should become a member of Ricochet. Greetings. This is Brady Keel or Hair Force One from Wisconsin.

Many members have extolled the virtues of membership, writing, reacting, meetups, etc. From ex-John selfies and the thoughtful offerings of scores of contributors like Berlinski, Levy, Lou, you, Epstein, Podhoretz, Sajak, and the centerpiece at the banquet of eloquence, Dave Carter. But my favorite, my reason for choosing to continue my Coolidge-level membership remains the original flagship podcast. Since 2010, I've been able to glean meaning and entertainment from an unlikely trio. A smut-peddling rhino squish like Rob Long, a licensed Segway craftsman, the only man I know that can turn the word septic into the word styptic to drive attention to the sponsors, Harry Shave, James Lilacs, and my favorite, Peter, tear down this wall, but not the paywall, Robinson. There's rarely a truer gentleman to be had. So thank you, Ricochet, and thank you for making my entertainment and knowledge a little bit better.

Thanks. Okay, so his favorite is Dave Carter. He likes Lilac Segways. He loves Peter Robinson. And I guess he feels like I'm a smut peddler. But that's okay because Ricochet is a big tent and we'll take it. Meanwhile, if you go to Ricochet, we're doing something new. It's called The Daily Shot.

It's a daily. It comes in your inbox in the morning, a little preview of the day's events, a little summary of yesterday's events written in breezy styles. Great cheat sheet. It lets you bluff your way through the day without having to read the morning paper. You don't have to be a member to sign up for it. So if you're listening to this podcast and you are not a member and you're like, buzz off. I don't want to become a member. That's OK, kind of, but go to Ricochet.com, sign up for the Daily Shot,

and you'll get a little bit of Ricochet anyway. And our feeling is, I'll just be super transparent, that it's like a drug dealer. The first one's free. After a couple days of getting Daily Shot, you'll love it so much you'll want to join. So what are you waiting for? Join Ricochet today. Go to Ricochet.com, sign up for the Daily Shot, become a member, and join the crowd. Absolutely. You know, my e-box, my email box is…

Your e-box. My e-box, yes. My e-box is… Your i-box. My i-box, my e-box is on flame with direct and spam. But the Daily Call, the Daily Shot is one thing that I look forward to every day. And I love the fact that I'm known for transitions. And that's it. I'm the most famous person known for transitions since Christine Jorgensen.

I think it's forbearance. You're known for forbearance. You're known for that. It's inaudible, but it's almost ear-shattering, your patience and annoyance. It's almost like a Jack Benny routine from the radio radio show. You couldn't see it and you couldn't hear it. You just knew it was there. Yeah.

So it used to be. Now I'm just going through the motions. All right. All right. Before the show, a recap of what we did in D.C. If you were able to. Oh, it was extraordinary at the bar. We just had an absolute wonderful time there.

So many people showed up. But then we had this shindig, this panel. We were on C-SPAN. That's right. That's right. Big time there. And Rob kicked it. Rob killed it.

Rob won the room with his little speech on justice, which I thought was just great. There was, I think, a show of hands afterwards said that Rob pretty much owned the panel. You're too kind. There was no show of hands. The panel was, come on on you guys have a book out promoted oh that's right the name of the book rob is the seven deadly virtues uh edited by jonathan last the weekly standard the panel consisted of james uh jonah goldberg uh me pj work um help me out um was andy there andy ferguson andy ferguson was there matt laybash was in the room me, P.J. O'Rourke. Help me out. Was Andy there? Andy Ferguson?

Andy Ferguson was there. Matt Labash was in the room. Andy Ferguson was not on the panel because Andy Ferguson refuses to appear. Yes, he does. And Matt Labash, apparently Matt Labash, who is this funny and interesting,

gregarious, you know, kind of life of the party kind of guy, you know, at the dinner table. We had dinner all together afterwards and around the bar. He has kind of a fear of public speaking. He doesn't want to do it. And so he sat next – he sat along the side and kind of looked stricken.

James and I kind of made fun of him for not coming on the panel. But it was an interesting little quirk. He wrote a very funny essay. James wrote a very, very funny essay, very interesting essay. Actually, I would say James' essay starts getting deep. It may be the deepest one on – Hold on. You're going a little bit faster.

The book is called The Seven Deadly Virtues and it is a collection of humorous essays. Well, attempting to be, yes. Yes. Well, I haven't read it yet. So I'm just going by the cover and the blurb that I've seen. And it includes you and all the other – you, James, the two of you, plus the other panelists you mentioned. OK. Now, James, so what was your virtue, James, that you were writing about?

Well, my virtue was simplicity and that sort of – to write 3,000 words on simplicity sort of goes against – 3,000? Yeah. Sort of goes against the very idea. So I did this counter-simplicity thing about hoarding or what my daughter accuses me of being a hoarder when I come back from the antique store and I've got a bushel of matchbooks and postcards and the rest of it and magazines and the like, all this fodder for the website. And she says, hoarder, but no, I don't have tottering stacks and silverfish running all over the place in my house. It's a pretty neat arrangement. But what I wanted to talk about was how – Wait, before you do, can I just say that Christine Rosen was also on the panel.

I just – I don't think I mentioned her, Christine. And she was very funny. She talked about – she talked – now it's all blurring together. She talked about fellowship. She talked about fellowship. Right. And cannibalism. Could I ask, with all of you on the panel, who was there to listen?

Oh, many people came. Yeah. And they had wine, which was good because I kept walking around before the event saying, drink up. We'll be funny if you do. Drink up. Come on. Come on. Come on.

And they did. I think in D.C., if you announce that there's an event and there's going to be free wine and cheese, you get all the high flyers. And we had some high flyers. Bill Kristol showed up and John Funn showed up. A bunch of people showed up. The fun thing is, though, is that the state of humor is so debased in Washington, D.C., that I thought they'd be a tough crowd. What a round heels crowd they actually were, bless their heart. It was a beautiful crowd. Most people, when you say this is going to be a panel full of funny ha-ha guys who are just going to tickle your ribs.

And people sit there with stone faces and their arms across their chest saying, well, I'll be the judge of that. But they were all good and it was all fine. So anyway, buy the book, folks, and justify the effort that they put into it. Jonathan Last, we've got to thank him for putting this together. And it was just a strange National Review ricochet AEI weekly standard nexus of this. You could just see the Leviathan that is the right come together. Yes, Peter? Well, I just would like to know. There you were in Washington with this panel. You could just see the Leviathan that is the right come together. Yes, Peter?

Well, I just would like to know. There you were in Washington with this panel. We've heard about the book. What's the mood in Washington among our side? Our side, the mood is cautious. Yes. Then came the last days of the campaign and everyone's looking around and saying, how are we going to blow it this time? And if we don't, how are we going to blow it once we win?

Right. Yeah, that's the great – that's how you know the true conservatives. True conservatives, the republicans are excited because we're going to win and we're going to get – what is it? Sixty-eight percent – Nate Silver. Nate Silver, 538. It's a 68 percent chance of taking control of the Senate. But the conservatives are like, the worst thing that could happen is if we win because then we won't enact anything.

So those are good conservatives for you. I then took the train up on Wednesday up to New York to go to the National Review Institute dinner, which was on Wednesday night because they're sort of relaunching the National Review Institute. And that was a crowd of true believers, as you can believe, Peter. And they were happy about the National Review Institute, but they kind of felt like we need to reboot the National Review Institute because – and reinvigorate the country with conservative values and conservative philosophy because we're about to take over the Senate and isn't that going to be a disaster? Did you say – did I hear you mention that Tom Wolfe was at this event?

Tom Wolfe was there. Ted Cruz was there. Really? Yeah. That's actually an interesting duo right there. Here's what's impressive about Ted Cruz. Yes. He came to the dinner.

Yeah. He did not speak. He just came and sat there and enjoyed it. And that was that. He just didn't. It was no, no, no, no, no. Excuse me. Hold on. This way. That sounds like a magic trick. Did you did you examine him to see whether he were the chains holding him to the chair visible? A United States senator. Right. And especially a United Center sort of known for, you know, just any of the one. It was the one United States senator known for standing up and throwing furniture. He just – I mean I saw him across the room and he kind of just – he was there to support the National Review Institute.

Good for him. Yeah, good for him. That tells me that there was a secret dinner to which Rob would not – Yeah, well, probably his case. In which secret treaties between Cruz and National Review were struck. That's great. My job was – I was the emcee. Oh.

And so I had to like usher people on and off and tell a few jokes. Oh, so did everybody go long? No. That was the most amazing thing. We were supposed to end at 9.30 and the chairman of the NRI was sitting next to him. He said, my private time here is – because the director of the National Review Institute, this new – Lindsay Craig, this new person there. She's very smart. She's very detailed.

The best thing I've ever – the most organized thing I've ever seen National Review ever do. And she had a time to like – yeah, time to the second second and she said we will be done at 9.30 and I think when I was on the phone with her talking about it earlier I said well what happens if we go a little bit to we will be done at 9.30 but you know sometimes people go a little bit over we will be done at 9.00 so and the director

leaned over and said I mean the chairman leaned over and said well you know I predict we're going to end at 9.40 and we ended at 9.40 on the dot. Not bad. You sound like a good emcee. Have you always been the emcee? Are you like emcee number 262 or do they just always plug something?

They haven't done this in years. I emceed one, I mean over – I emceed one I think in the – during the first Clinton administration. That was it. Well, as long as they only have these once every decade, you're on a roll. I'm on a roll, yeah. It's hard to believe that in the first years of the Clinton administration,

the Simpsons were already a cultural powerhouse, George Bush having made a reference to Bart Simpson as not being a role model for the youth of America. And that seems like a long time ago. It was a long time ago. And it reminds you what a fixture it's been and what an important and absolutely crucial voice in the popular culture has been the one of Harry Shearer. We welcome back to the podcast. He may, of course, know Harry from as Derek Smalls from Spinal Tap or the voice of Montgomery Burns, Ned Flanders, Principal Skinner,

and probably 37 other characters from The Simpsons. We invite him back to this, the Ricochet podcast. His new series, Nixon's The One, is now running on YouTube. Hey, Harry. Hi. Hey, Harry. It's Rob Long. How are you? Rob, I've heard of you.

That's nice of you to say. Now, I should say, just for people who are listening for the first time, that Harry, you and I are old friends. So as they say, as reporters say, full disclosure, we're friends. Nixon's the one is you have taken out. Help me out because I've seen them all, but I want to know how to describe it. I described to a friend of mine as you've taken the transcripts of the tapes of the good, the funny and interesting Nixon tapes, and you've dramatized them. But that's not quite accurate, is it? No, the word dramatize suggests some license was taken. First of all, there weren't transcripts. The only tapes that have been transcribed were the ones

that were used in hearings or trials. Ninety five percent of the tapes have have been transcribed were the ones that were used in hearings or trials. Ninety-five percent of the tapes have never been transcribed. So my writing partner, Stanley Cutler, who is the historian of the tapes who actually filed the lawsuit to make them public in the first place against the stringent objections of Richard Nixon, he had been going through the tapes for years to write his books and had come across some of these conversations professionally. And I'd come across them, shall we say, recreationally. And so I said to Stanley, let's go find the funniest, most bizarre, most strange, but unwitting. They say you can't hurry love. But if you don't get to your post office by March 23rd, you'll miss your chance to save €2.50 on a book of 10 heart-shaped love stamps. Now, just €14. Down from €16.50.

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18plusgamblingcare.ie FBD doesn't stand for friendly business ducks or for the freelance beatbox department FBD stands for support we support businesses and communities across Ireland visit your local branch to talk to your FBD insurance team

and see how we can support your business FBD insurance, support, it's what we do FBD Insurance Group Limited, trading as FBD Insurance. Support. It's what we do. FBD Insurance Group Limited, trading as FBD Insurance, is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. Funny conversations, some of which we know about and some of which we don't, which required listening. There were no transcripts, so we had to actually put on the headphones and listen to these really badly recorded tapes to find, as we say in the business, the comedy gold. Yeah, but that was fun for you. You liked that stuff, right? really badly recorded tapes to find, as we say in the business, the comedy gold. Yeah, but that was fun for you. You like that stuff, right?

Yes. That was a whole Christmas and New Year's for me one year. You famously play over and over. I think I first heard on your show, the show you do on public radio, which we will link to if people do not listen to it. It'll, you know, a warning to all conservatives who are most listeners. I mean two-thirds of it is going to fry your hair. It fries mine. But Harry, you are a fair and decent left-of-center character, so you attack all sides pretty much uniformly, wouldn't you say? The job of the satirist is to mock with great energy and avidity whoever is sitting in the seat of power at the given moment. If you're not doing that, you're a court jester and nothing more. So OK, I want to get back to that. Before I finish, I got a few more questions that I know everybody else wants to jump in. So you picked Nixon because Nixon – all the tapes are there, right?

Yeah, I didn't pick Nixon. Nixon picked Nixon because Nixon – all the tapes are there, right? And they're – I mean – Yeah, I didn't pick Nixon. Nixon picked Nixon. Nixon is the only – Johnson and Kennedy had taped, but they reserved to themselves the option to decide when to record. Nixon was such a known technophobe that his staff felt if it was left to him to push the button, it would never get pushed. So they developed a voice-activated system. So whenever anybody talked in these self-bugged offices, tape started rolling. That's why this is a unique collection. Five and a half years of virtually every waking word uttered by the most powerful man in the world. So who made that decision? Which person checked the box? We don't know. We don't know. because that was the guy that brought him down yes along with

alexander butterfield uh the air force attache who testified at the watergate hearing that a taping system existed which was a closely held secret until then uh you'd say that guy alexander butterfield and nixon the three of them colluded to bring him down well what's a very funny scene and i think we should post the scene if we can, that of – I think it's H physical awkwardness that kind of pervaded his personality because he was awkward with strangers, which is a curious thing for a politician. But he was. He never was comfortable meeting strangers, and I think that carried over to machines. It sort of reminded me no more than trying to explain to Peter Robinson how to work Skype. Is that an opening? Get out of the way. Yeah, it is an opening. Go right ahead. Okay. So first of all, Harry, Peter here. Hi, Peter. I have to just get this out of the way. Rob won't like it, but I'm going to have to do it anyway i think your

performance is it's it's beyond mock i think it is brilliant the the dialogue i i the the dialogue must be i was thinking to myself oh my goodness how do you do the the uhs the ums the awkwardness the repetition the beginning a sentence changing the subject in the middle of the sentence, the sheer awkwardness of it. I thought to myself, if you read a mammoth script, that's hard enough to figure out. There's no – you can't catch the rhythm. You don't – it's not written to be spoken. I just thought to myself, how does Harry – this may demonstrate my political bent a little bit – that bits of it obviously funny, bits of it obviously weird, but bits of it really quite in some strange way touching the sheer – that hilarious scene in which he's talking to the executives how they could use milk to advertise … As a sleep aid as a sleep aid and he just goes on and on becomes

more and more bizarre and you portray this horribly ill at ease uncomfortable in some way shy anyway i just think the performance as a performance not satire yes but as an act it's just brilliant so there are thank you peter and i don't don't care what Rob says. Don't mind him one little bit. You know, I have to say all of us in the cast, you know, I was Nixon, but everybody that was playing these other characters, we were really rigorous in listening to the tape of a scene as we were rehearsing it for that purpose of not just reciting the words. You know, when, when the tapes first came out, there were groups around the country that would recite the words from the transcripts. Right. And it was very actory. I was part of one of them. So I know from firsthand and I, that's really what I didn't want. Now we had

the actual evidence of how these conversations sounded. And, um, in a way, as and you're right, they're deucedly difficult to memorize. But in a way, when you get those herky jerky rhythms, when you get every weird word choice and word order, right, that's when, for me, at least, it's really possible to lock into the character because those choices are all coming from character. Yeah. Yeah. So did you – I just don't know what it is like to be an actor operating at your level. Do you feel clearly – you've spent a big part of your life mocking the man. I mean your politics are not anything like Richard Nixon politics and never, ever have been even – but did you feel close to him in some weird way to portray him that that that deeply? Peter, you know, it's an interesting thing about his politics, first of all, and then I'll get to the second part of the question. But while we were shooting the series, it did dawn on me that Richard Nixon's domestic policies in many ways were far to the left of the current incumbent in the White House.

Under him, the Clean Air Act was passed. The Clean Water Act was passed. EPA was established. OSHA was established. Affirmative action. Affirmative action. In his second term, he actually gave a speech. Didn't do anything about it, but he gave a speech calling for a guaranteed annual income for all Americans. And he was in the exact center of the Republican Party. He wasn't a Republican liberal. Rockefeller was to the left of him in the party. And he wasn't a Republican liberal. Rockefeller was to the left of him in the party. And he wasn't a Republican conservative. Goldwater is to the right of him. So, you know,

if you're saying my politics are not akin to Nixon's, one has to think about that a little bit. Anyway, as the... So can I refer to you now as the Nixonian Harry Shearer? But hold on a second. That would be one of the nicest ways you've referred to me, right?

That's true. But if that's the case, then why was he reviled as evil incarnate by the left at the time? Well, because the left was, you know, the whole country has moved so far to the right. Nixon would have been primaried out of any Senate seat in the last two election cycles as a Republican. He built a Republican Party through his Southern strategy. He built a Republican Party that would have kicked him out. That's one of the great ironies of Nixon. His comic persona was miserly, mean, vain, all – no likable characteristics. It's just that I'm making people listen to his bad violin playing. But he played this not as a stick figure or as a caricature but as a flawed human.

And that's why people loved him for 40, 50 years. And I think I kind of took that away from him that you can play any of these characters. I mean, uh, and, and certainly if you're doing, you know, a sketch comedy on a daily basis, as, as I was as a kid, you were going to draw, uh, work in larger strokes. But when you're doing something like this, uh, to me you have to go there and play him not as a hero, not as a monster, not as any of these archetypes, but as a flawed human. One of us. Right. Now, Harry, who's the fellow?

I have to say I didn't I didn't take time to absorb the credits. Who's the fellow who plays Kissinger? He's a wonderful English stage actor named Henry Goodman. I see. Because I have to say, I could hardly believe some of the dialogue, Kissinger to Nixon, how unbelievably fawning and toadying it was. I would have thought, if I hadn't understood going into it, that this was based word for word on the actual tapes, I would have thought that the writer – that you'd hired some young writer, a Nixon hater who just got carried away. It's just unbelievable. And yet that character – again, there's a – the character makes it believable. You can actually sort of feel Kissinger being uncomfortable with himself as he nevertheless toadies up to this man. It's – anyway.

Go ahead. There are dozens and dozens and dozens of scenes of Kissinger practicing this obsequiousness. So this was the best speech you ever gave. That was the best press conference you ever gave. That was the best – and on and on and on. And it seems to me Kissinger was two things that Nixon didn't like, to say the least. A Harvard professor and a Jew. And Kissinger knew that. And these are both highly intelligent men, but they need each other.

Kissinger needs Nixon for access to power. Nixon needs Kissinger for, you know, whatever he thought Kissinger could contribute. So there's this dance of the spiders, you know, going on here. Nixon needs Kissinger for whatever he thought Kissinger could contribute. So there's this dance of the spiders going on here. And I think this obsequiousness – Kissinger, of course, was a student of power and knew that men of power like to be surrounded by sycophants and thought, OK, I can do that. Hey, so Harry, I got – so we should just say this was originally broadcast in Britain on Sky. Yes. And now it's here and it's on YouTube. Yes.

Are you going to do any more? Nobody is banging down my door to ask for more. Sky said after we did the pilot and they liked it, how many more do you want to do? And I said, well, I always wanted to do six, so let's do five more. And they said, great. I've always admired that British system of you do six shows. The original Office was only two seasons of six. And then you move on.

There may be – I don't want to repeat ourselves. As I say, there are dozens of scenes of Kissinger doing the same stuff. We thought we selected the best examples. I wouldn't be averse if somebody asked to say, Stanley, let's go look and see if there's more we can do. Well, there's not another president who's that interesting or that tragic or that moving. That's the point. I mean you can't imagine America doing a television show about Edward Heath. Yet Britain's or them, Nixon looms as large apparently as it does to us.

Rob's right. Who subsequently is that identifiable as a figure that 40 years later is going to be satirized? I think any of these guys would be worth this if they had gone to the trouble of taping themselves. You can't – this is not fiction writing this is you know going from the real material and and everybody learned their lesson from nixon but as to the question about the brits i thought about this uh because it got a very good reception in britain brits learned their history i think through the prism of this a rogues gallery of grotesques that happen to have crowns on their heads. Oh, yes.

Good point. Very good point. Yes. It was just another one of these. I mean Shakespeare made a living off these guys. So, you know, we tend to grow up with these people more as lives of the saints and it comes as a sort of a rude surprise to us. What?

Jefferson had slaves? Really? No. Come on. So I think it fit into the British rubric of understanding power and the people who have power over them a little bit more – or a little bit more than it would us say relating to Edward Heath. Were you surprised by the hours and hours of tapes even during the crisis years where they're just kind of sitting around chit-chatting. I mean that's the one thing that people who I know who have been in the Oval Office for a variety of presidents, not just Republicans but Clinton as well, that just how much – just kind of like gabbing that goes on in there. The center of power, the most powerful and influential square feet in the world. And sometimes it's – the guys will sit around for 30 minutes talking about their favorite movie.

It's a center of power slash dorm room. And you have to – one can understand it because they can't – for those conversations, they can't say, guys, I'll see you in half an hour. I'm going to go to Starbucks or to go to the CGI space and hang with the guys. This is a velvet prison for them. And so everything that they would do in their lives has to happen in this space. And it does seem weird when you think, well, he's on the meter. We're paying him to have this chitchat about homosexuals and all in the family, you know. But on the other hand, there's no place else he can have it. Harry, Peter here. May I ask you to answer a question or two as

Richard Nixon? Well, you can ask. Let me hear the question. All right. Here's the question, Mr. President. We know from the tapes, we know from all the memoirs that you were actually a rather shy man and that you found politics not, it didn't come to you easily. How did you force yourself to give speeches, shake hands and do all the things that a politician has to do to suggest that he enjoys the company of strangers well you know what peter i'll tell you something that's perfect i'm sorry when when you want to screw the bastards as much as i do no seriously i i thought about that because he is he's the last

person you'd cast in that in the role of a politician in terms of skill set aside from his intelligence. But I think he – and this is one – go back to how you relate to the characters you do. One finds willy-nilly commonalities or resonances with anybody if you are fascinated by them. Southern California with this burning resentment of the people back East who seem to have all the connections and all the privilege and went to the fancy schools and, you know, went to the... At LiveScoreBet, we love Cheltenham just as much as we love football. The excitement, the roar, and the chance to reward you. That's why every day of the festival, we're giving new members money back as a free sports bet up to 10 euro if your horse loses on a selected race that's how we celebrate the biggest week in racing cheltenham with live

score bet this is total betting sign up by 2 p.m 14th of march bet within 48 hours of race main market excluding specials and place bets terms apply bet responsibly 18 plus gambling care.ee great you know great all buildings and everything and. And I grew up in Southern California and always thought, you know, Jesus, the New York guys, you know, have got it wired already. And so you felt it, too. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And so I think with me, it's been sort of modulated, although Rob might differ. But I think it was nothing about you is modulated, Harry. Thank you. But I think with Nixon, that became, along with a few other psychological things, it became sort of a molten core that propelled him through a profession that he had no business in terms of what we were just talking about being a part of.

I think – I was joking when I answered your question, but I think the kernel of truth there is that molten core that I'll show them, I'll get back at them, I'll show them. You listen to the tapes. Somebody was asking me the other night in New York about this, what Nixon talks about when he's in his darkest moods. And almost always, it's framed in the – in his sense of retaliation like Johnson did this. Kennedy did this. They're screwing us. Why aren't we screwing them? Let's get the bastards.

Let's do it. Let's go. Who do we have at the IRS? It's all – in his mind, it's all – and of course, it's a little bizarre. He doesn't have the let it go gene. He's sitting there with Kissinger at one point and he's saying, you know, to Kissinger, uh, and he's really mad. Not once, never, never during the entire time Kennedy and Johnson were in office, if they ever invite me to one social event in, in the white house and Kissinger doesn't dare say, of course, sir, Kennedy's in the ground.

You've won. Let it go. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, but Harry, I mean just to push back on that a little bit. Ben Bradley, the editor – former editor of The Washington Post died this week or last week. His funeral was on Wednesday. And after all the sort of elegies and the funeral orations are over, people were noticing that he was the editor post that brought down richard nixon uh for all these sort of crimes but the crimes that he looked away when he discovered under kennedy he was in the thrall of john f kennedy we know it from his diaries we know it from the kennedy uh library archives all the things that kennedy did he got away with and none of the things that nixon did 10 years later he got away with and the same guy the same reporter was

just he just decided 10 years later to change his standard so i mean i'm not going to take nixon's side here but yeah i'm going to take nixon's side here yeah no and and and rob i i you know i think of you as more nixonian than me so well thank you yeah the torch the torch has been passed to a new generation um Yes, that being said, you're now in the White House. You've won the game. And I'm not speaking as a political figure now. I'm speaking as a personality. This sense of always being in the need of retaliation or wanting this retaliation

this is the this is in a way the culmination of that that burning drive that drove him to the white house in the first place i'm going to get him i'm going to get him now i can get him yeah i mean to make you a point here if you contrast nixon with reagan reagan was even more condescended to than Nixon. Everyone at least. Oh, my God. Yeah. Everyone understood Richard Nixon was a brilliant man. He wasn't Ivy League. Well, he went to Duke Law School, but they all understood he was brilliant, whereas Reagan was condescended to again and again and again. But he held nothing against anyone. He just let it all go with the result that he I know Reagan Reagan's politics are even less attractive to you than Nixon's. But Reagan as a figure seemed just a healthier, saner man altogether.

Absolutely. I mean I think we're talking here about character, not politics. Right. Absolutely. Absolutely. The problem with Nixon, it seems to me, is that the very things that pushed him forward, the very things that drove him were the things that helped collude in his destruction. You know, to me, he is the great American, I view it as comic because we have the distance character of the 20th century because he's the classic self-made man who then comes around

and becomes the self-destroyed man. So he wrote his own punchline in a way. May I tell one little Nixon story? Sure. All right. This story, this comes on good authority because I have it from a friend who was on the airplane who saw it happen. It's a camp. I can't remember which campaign it is, but it's a presidential campaign.

They're on the airplane. Nixon is giving an interview to some reporter or other. At the end, the reporter closes his notebook, indicating that what takes place now is off the record. And like a lot of reporters, it's the human impulse. It's the Kissinger impulse. You want to sort of ingratiate yourself with the sitting president of the United States. So the reporter starts to just chit-chat a little bit. And somehow the question comes up, what's the hardest part of politics?

And that sets Nixon off onto a little monologue. Some people say the hardest part is raising the money. That's not the hardest part of politics? And that sets Nixon off onto a little monologue. Some people say the hardest part is raising the money. That's not the hardest part. And he went through this kind of litany, shaking the hands. That's not the hardest part. Writing the speeches. That's not the hardest part.

And then he concluded the hardest part of politics is getting the little bastards to vote for you. That's almost too perfect, isn't it? Well, we had dueling Nixons there for a minute. Yeah, I thought we did. Hey, how close is Nixon to Mr. Burns? How do you segment? Some of these voices are close to each other.

How do you stay in one character and keep from bleeding into another, Harry? Bleeding, nice word. I, you know, I analogize it to songs. If somebody says sing happy birthday, you don't start drifting into Auld Lang Syne until very late in your life, hopefully. But I want to go back to one more thing about Nixon, because it was one of the things that I had an epiphany about during the making of the show, the last scene in the last episode is this famous scene just before he resigns the presidency. As we've discussed, a man who's awkward with strangers, not given a small talk, now walks in to the Oval Office preparing to experience his ultimate humiliation to resign the presidency on national television.

And what does he do? What choices does he make? He walks in and starts making small talk with the crew, making banal, to put it mildly, jokes with the crew. And I'd seen this. This scene had been videotaped. The CBS engineer in the truck had hit the record button and videotaped the cbs engineer um in the truck had uh hit the record button and videotaped the scene so it was for years a source of some uh jollity to me and my friends my little

friend and i'd memorized the scene long since and i i'm always just regarded it as bizarre and card sort of no no fiction writer would make that choice for nixon that nixon had made for himself but i didn't go beyond that. Now we're rehearsing it. And I come across the tape ends when the speech ends, because CBS ends the feed there and it goes to black. So I never knew what Nixon said after he finished the speech. Well, while we were rehearsing, I came across a memoir by a White House staffer who was in the room that night, one of the few. And he said that Nixon's last words after he finished, he only said one thing to the crew after he finished the speech, he got up and he said, have a Merry Christmas, fellas. This was August 8th. Oh, you're kidding. No, I'm not. So that was the moment when I

realized what this was. He was not living, you know, experientially in the moment of his own humiliation. He was launching the next campaign, the campaign for personal rehabilitation. And I think in his mind that crew was going to walk out of there that night saying he wasn't depressed. He wasn't angry. He wasn't upset. He was a nice guy. He was joking around. He even wished us a Merry Christmas.

Right, right, right, right. A couple of questions before we let you go. First of all, the current occupant of the White House, as Garrison Keillor liked to refer to, a president he didn't like, when he was elected, people were falling over themselves for his intellect, his professorial demeanor. What would you imagine the conversations at this point in the Obama White House, the private conversations that they have, what do you imagine the tone and tenor of those to be? You know, I do Obama material on my radio show because, as I say, I think it's the gig.

And I try to put a frame around each guy that comes from some sense of who that person may be. So for George W., it was this tension between him and his dad because he hadn't been the chosen one. Jeb, of course, was the chosen one. So it seemed to me that that tension underlay a lot of what was going on in the administration. So I did that in a series of phone calls between them. For Obama, it struck me early on that he had made a choice, and he's welcome to make it, but it seemed to me just on a political level without regard to policy, it was a fairly

self-destructive choice. And that was the choice that every night at 6.30, no matter what, he was going to have dinner with the family. So he did not use that time to build relationships with his own members of Congress, which is why they never have been really that avid about supporting him or now inviting him even to campaign with them. So the frame I put those conversations in was as an episode of the old sitcom Father Knows Best. So all these events are basically served up as life lessons that he's dishing out to his daughters in a sort of overly avuncular fashion.

I think Rob Long, I hate to say this, I hate to give him credit. Sure, I know you do. Yeah, but Rob Long said something to me early on in the Obama administration that I thought was over the top at the time. He said he thought the guy was a narcissist. And I think Rob is on the money. I think he's got almost a narcissist's high opinion of himself and thinks that the dirty business of politics is beneath him. And at which point you have to say, well, why did you run to be the head politician?

We didn't elect you to be father-in-chief. It's nice for your daughters, but gee, interesting choice you made, sir. Yeah, well, for somebody in Hollywood to identify narcissism in somebody else. Who better? A rarefied skill from a master himself. Wait, before you do it, I just think we have to make a make a note and check the time and the date that I said something. Yes. You said I was right about something. Yeah, it did occur to me, Harry, as I was listening to that, to wonder whether you would wait six years to agree with Rob the next time he offers an insight.

That's a that's a policy. Hey, by the way, but contrast that with Richard Nixon. Contrast Obama, who thinks politics is beneath him, with Richard Nixon. One thing you always get about Richard Nixon, his book Six Crises, the way he looked up to De Gaulle, the way he looked up – in some way we all knew he looked up to John Kennedy even as he tried to denigrate him. Nixon really did believe that politics was noble, didn't he? It was a worthy, in some way, he thought he was, at some deep level, he thought he was beneath it all, but he never looked down on the work of politics, did he? I don't know if anybody can say with a straight face that politics is noble. I think they can say governing can be noble. Uh, politics is dirty business. Nixon knew that as well as anybody. Nixon knew, uh, you know, as, as everybody who's a fair observer knew that, uh, uh, the vote count

in Illinois in 1960 was, uh, monkeyed with the Democrats had a history of that going back to Johnson in 1948. That's when, that's back when Democrats were good at politics. It's it's a it's the last time. Yeah, probably. You know, the cliche in Washington is politics ain't beanball. And Nixon knew that better than most. So I wouldn't say that he thought about it. But he thought of politics as a set of skills that he had. The public ones that we've talked about aside, strategizing. Certainly he strategized the southern strategy. I think that came from him. But how to win elections, how to gain power, and then when you're in power, maybe the use

that you can make of it is noble. Maybe it's not. But I think it would be insulting to him to say that he thought politics was noble. Politics is a rough, tough, heavy contact sport. And you either like it, and I think he liked it. I think he liked engaging in the rough and tumble of it. He used to talk a lot about being the man in the arena.

That's right. In the arena, they're not playing chess. I think there's a sort of almost a kind of diffidence about Obama to the profession that he found himself in, you know, and I do think

he thinks a lot of it is beneath him and to his detriment. Well, I heard Peter draw breath for a follow-up, Peter. Was that something you meant to say? No, no, no. Well, I heard Peter draw breath for a follow up, Peter. Was that something you meant? No, no, no. Well, I mean, I would. I think Peter draws breath every couple of seconds.

He's gasping. Maybe I'll put up a post on this. But there is a line of thought that begins with Aristotle that politics actually is noble, that even though it has dirty aspects. But but I take Harry's point. When Nixon was writing about De Gaulle or Churchill, he was always writing about them in statesmen. And probably he did subscribe to this distinction. Politics was the price you had to pay to get to be,

to have a chance at becoming a statesman. That's right. Something like that, right? Yeah, okay. Well, it's also noble as opposed to the alternative, which is Game of Thrones. Yeah, right, right right right right very good point yeah are you right again no right twice that's right so you notice that harry agreed with you

immediately that time there's no six-year lag and he will agree with me on this yeah he will agree yeah go ahead well he will agree with me on this third point, which is that this is really – this is an excellent series. It's really great. It's riveting. It's – when I saw it the first time, I was astonished at how careful it is – how entertaining it is but also how careful it is to not go for the joke. This was so hard. i couldn't do it i i could not do that myself i would not be able to do it um and i i love because you said i went to a public event and when you present it to the audience and i love what you said that then and

you said uh you know nixon says some kind of nutty things sometimes and you you kind of wonder whether people in the oval office middle of exchange looks here or there and harry said you forget nixon was a smart guy he was the smartest guy in the room you couldn't like put one over on and he was smarter than you and um and i also feel like that just managing to capture that was it's a real i really felt like i was there and i just think it's worth it. You should go to YouTube. Just kind of block out some time and enjoy them all.

This is great binge watching. Thank you, Rob. I have to say I was pretty adamant about this – what you're talking about, the reality of it, the being absolutely true to the stuff. We got this great gift. The least we it, the being absolutely true to the stuff. We got this great gift. The least we can do is be absolutely true to it. And I have to say that I've been in a lot of situations where I would be similarly adamant about realism or accuracy in America. And people in the production team would say, why? Come on.

Nobody will notice. And there'd be big arguments and I'd be cast as some sort of, you know, fanatic for, you know, wanting to do it the right way. The British crew just leapt in with great enthusiasm into the adventure of getting it right. And so did the cast. It went this far that for the resignation speech scene, CBS covered the resignation speech. So I called a friend at CBS in Washington and I said, what were the cameras they shot the resignation speech with? And he gave me the make and the model number.

My crew in Britain found the one guy in England who had two working models of that camera. You could still see through the eyepiece. They brought him and his cameras down to London. He's one of the camera operators in that scene uh they got the absolute exact accurate nixon oval office as it was under nixon it's 360 degree set so you're once you're in there there's no off stage uh and it had such an impact on the actors when they'd walk into that it was like now we're not acting now we're here now and and it just the the avidity with which people bought into that concept made it much easier to do it the right way hey harry i'm sorry but how did you decide on the camera

angles i watched that for a moment and then i thought, oh, I think I get it. I think I get it. The camera is placed where – in certain shots where the lens would have been if there had been a hidden camera as well as a hidden microphone. Exactly. That's the idea? Yeah. Exactly. I mean it was part of the original concept was we shoot it as if he'd hidden cameras there as well as microphones. I had a wonderful director named Sasha ransom who had, her experience was very key to doing

this the right way. Uh, we'd hired, I mean, we hired her cause she was great, but her last gig was directing big brother. So she'd had a lot of experience at, at many, many, you know, we had 10 cameras on this shoot. And so she'd been used to directing a 10 or 12-camera shoot. But she was brilliant at sort of just figuring out exactly where to place them to give it that look. So 10 cameras, 360-degree set, professional, well-paid actors shot in London where wage scales are not low. Yeah. Who put up the – was this a YouTube – who's the production? actors shot in London where wage scales are not low. Yeah. Who put up the, was this a, was this a YouTube?

Who, who, who's the production? Where'd the, who put up the money for this, Harry? It was done from, it was done in first, first class ways from the get go. Yeah. This is why we went with Sky. BBC wanted to do it. Sky offered us a little more money for the budget. Got it. So it was Sky that put up the money.

And so they own the rights in Britain and Ireland. And so the YouTube version is seen everywhere in the world except Britain and Ireland where it's on Sky. I see. Okay. Got it. And available now to anybody at YouTube. Nixon's the one. That's right. You don't have to go to Hulu and download an app. You don't have to go to DirecTV and search through a menu. This is the great thing about media these days. It's not sitting somewhere and you've got to be there to watch it. It's anywhere you want to be, on your phone, on your iPad, on your computer. Harry Shearer's Nixon's The One.

Watch it. Enjoy. And we thank you for coming to the podcast today. Thank you. And it's free, too. You don't have to subscribe. Thank you. Happy New Year. Just like the socialism you love so much, Harry. That's right.

Thank you. Thank you for noticing. Thanks, Harry. That's right. Thank you. Thank you for noticing. Thanks, Harry. Thanks. Harry Shearer. Stop. Three, two, one. Harry Shearer, ladies and gentlemen.

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the Ricochet podcast. Well, gentlemen, what's up here on the schedule? We are coming down to... We're down to the wire. We're down to the wire. And what I love is a recent poll that took a look at millennials. And wouldn't you know it, for some strange reason, the 60s hold on them seems to be wearing off. This ain't the summer of love anymore.

They're looking at what all that wrought and said, maybe there's nothing in this for us like, oh, I don't know, jobs. And so supposedly, supposedly, they're willing to entertain the GOP. I'm not sure in great enough numbers. I think the young are just dispositionally wired to be contrary and warmhearted and compassionate and hence vote for the left. But could be. I don't know. Can it be cool again to be what we believe. Well, I think it's definitely cool. You definitely see in millennials the idea that Rand Paul libertarianism is sort of their gateway drug to conservatism.

So I think it's not unusual that they would be thinking anew. Look, once you've made the point of voting for the first African-American president twice, the novelty wears off. It is true that when you survey – what do they call it? The psychometrics, psychographics of that generation? Psychographics, right. Psychographics. You do find in millennials that – millennials under 30 I guess.

So millennials are sort of a larger category but there's a subset of millennials under 30. This kind of thrift and hard work and entrepreneurial. They're coupon cutters. They are savers. They are not luxury good spenders. It's really interesting that that specific slice of the generation seems more like old fashion and so maybe they're going to – maybe they'll be the hope. Whatever it is, we know something.

Some big changes are taking place. Something is happening. Mitch McConnell is up among women in Kentucky. That is proof of something. Something. Something amazing is happening. It's a very, very different political landscape now and we have barack obama to thank i mean without a doubt i do want to say this i i've just been reading this the democrat is how

terrified democrats are they've been sending out these letters i think just in new york state but maybe other places reminding people that they need to vote i think it's mostly registered democrats or or or or people who um who haven't, didn't vote last year. And this is one that was printed from someone in Queens County, New York. Our records indicate that you're registered to vote in Queens County. Who you vote for is secret, but whether or not you vote is public record. Many organizations monitor turnout in your neighborhood and are disappointed by inconsistent voting of many of your neighbors. Wow.

So then they give you a list of how you vote and where you should vote. And the last paragraph of this letter is this. It's fantastic. We will be reviewing the Queens County official voting records after the upcoming election to determine whether you joined your neighbors who voted in 2014. If you do not vote this year, we will be interested to hear why not this is chavezism wow isn't that amazing this is the democratic party this is block party commissars that's exactly right that's exactly the way it is in havana party member on every block unbelievable and mary landrew uh sunday on i guess meet the press said that the reason barack obama's having trouble in the south and louis having trouble in Louisiana is because Louisiana is not a very hospitable state for African-American – for certain races and genders, right?

She called the voters of her home state racist and sexist. This is when you know you're in trouble, when you're mad at the voters. Yes. Right, right, right. At the same time, I have to say it's not looking. Things could change between now and Tuesday, although a lot of voting has already taken place. It's not looking like a wave right now.

51 seats for Republicans, 52 maybe. I don't think that we're going to win in North Carolina. I don't think we're going to win, Scott Brown. To me, the test case, I think we mentioned this on the podcast last week. The test case for me personally, at least, is Scott Brown in New Hampshire. The polls will close there relatively early. And if it looks as though he's winning there, the Republicans are going to have a huge night. 54 seats would be my prediction. It doesn't look as though that's going to happen. His opponent, Jeanne Shaheen, is holding holding steady about two points in North Carolina. Kay Hagan's up and down a little bit, but she remains in the lead.

That probably caps Republicans at 51 or so. Well, these are some established I mean, these are people who are incumbents, as Rob was discussing the other night. It's quite extraordinary, the slate of newcomers that the Democrats have put up this year. When you look at Wendy Davis in Texas, you see a candidate who really seems to lack the most elemental skill when it comes to connecting with people who might not actually be inclined to vote for her at the first blush. True enough. I am more optimistic, Peter, than you are. Are you? How optimistic? We win in North Carolina? I think we might win in North Carolina. I think we can win in New Hampshire. We win in North Carolina.

Well, that's 54 seats, I think. And I think we're going to win the runoff in New Orleans. I mean, in Louisiana as well. Oh, yeah. I'm kind of counting on winning. You know, the other thing I've started to watch, here's what will interest me

a lot. El Paso and the Rio Grande Valleys, the southernmost part of Texas, down around McAllen. Greg Abbott running for governor. It's clear he's going to win, of course, because Wendy Davis, she's not even really a candidate. She's not running for governor. She's running for a role as an activist in the Democratic Party. Okay, so he's going to win. But to his credit, and I really do believe it is to his immense credit, he is campaigning hard, visiting and spending money in heavily, heavily Hispanic parts of Texas, which would be El Paso and again down in the Rio Grande Valley where they grow grape citrus and beautiful country down around McAllen, Brownsville and so forth.

And polling has shown that he's actually doing – now, not near 50 percent but up in George W. Bush territory, around 30 percent, something of that nature. figure out how to bring Hispanics into the Republican Party in Texas. Well, it proves, you know, Robinson's, this is reason 427 why Texas is the greatest state imaginable, but it also will demonstrate a way, an opening. And Susana Martinez, if she can do the same in New Mexico, there may be a Southeastern model, a way for Republicans. We'll see if it ever works here in California, but that will be fascinating. If Greg Abbott, who's as conservative as he can be, he's a slightly more jovial, a slightly less sharp edged Ted Cruz. In his views, you couldn't put any distance between him and Ted Cruz, zero, none. They're both thoroughly conservative. But Greg Abbott is

convinced that running as a free market, low tax, pro-business candidate, he can appeal to Hispanics in his state. And it looks as though he's right. Yeah, I completely agree. And I feel like Republicans need to learn two things. One is the Hispanic Southwest. That includes Colorado. Colorado is an interesting state because the Democrats may lose the governor in Colorado. That governor was a big – a rising star for them, John Hickenlooper. And our next challenge is the cities, is learning how to win the cities again. So – and we have barack obama to thank

exactly all right so tuesday we'll see oh wait we're having a live a call in what are those things called live stream election night what's what's you know where everybody's on at the same time there's a name for that rob i just can't everyone has to watch the the uh nixon's the one episode where they try to explain to President Nixon how to use the tape. Now I press that button if I want it on. That's basically what he does. Yeah, that's right. Yes, live election show.

We're going to cover the election live, live chat. I'm in New York. Live chat. I'll be joining late. We'll have a whole range of guests and experts, but you got to be a member. You have to be a member to participate. So join today. It will be a lot of fun.

And we should just say that we want to call out on the member feed Dominic Prynne. Great topic. Obama wants an excuse to fail. He secretly wants a Republican Senate so he can get nothing because he's going to get nothing anyway, which I thought was kind of a provocative idea. She explains it very well. I'm not sure I agree with it, but I thought she made a good point. Yes, indeed. And if you want to read the member feed and contribute to it and get your stuff put on the flagship podcast, of course, you've got to join to do so.

And you'll make Rob and Peter very happy. You'll make everybody at Ricochet happy because you'll be ensuring that this marvelous institution not only gets you through the 2014 cycle but the 2016 and beyond as well. I want to thank Harry Shearer. We want to thank Harry.com for. We want to thank harry.com for sponsoring and encounterbooks.com as well. And, of course, to you and everybody else who has got skin in this game, as Rob so often likes to put it. You know, we may have tired of that phrase and retired it at some point. Everybody brought it up at the meetup.

It's something that stuck in their mind and made them feel guilty. Rob, you guilted people with a flesh-based metaphor into giving you money. It's like reverse hefnerism. Anyway, it's been great, guys. We'll see you all in the comments at Ricochet 2.0.

Next week, fellas. Next week. So I campaign all my life towards that goal. I hardly slept the night you went. Our secrets safe and still we'll care. Where even Richard Nixon has got soul Even Richard Nixon has got soul The podium rocks in the crowded waves The speaker talks of the beautiful saves

I went down long before he played this role For the hotel queens and the magazines Test tube jeans and slot machines, where even Richard Nixon has got it sold. Even Richard Nixon has got it sold. So Ricochet Join the conversation Music ¶¶ Roads stretch out like healthy beans And wild gift horses strain the rains Where even Richard Nixon has got soul

Even Richard Nixon has got soul Can I raise a practical question at this point? Yeah. Are we going to do Stonehenge tomorrow? No, we're not going to f***ing do Stonehenge.