The Ringer NBA Show - 2018 NBA Draft Takeaways | Draft Class (Ep. 293)

Episode Date: June 22, 2018

The Ringer’s Kevin O’Connor, Jonathan Tjarks, and Danny Chau react to the trades and selections made at the 2018 NBA draft. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. I'm Kevin O'Connor and this is draft class. Sitting it across the table for me. It's the first time. We're all together in one room. Here in Los Angeles. Yeah, I know. It's the Ringer staff writer Jonathan Chops.

I asked them all year. They're like, we'd only want you around. But I guess for the draft, you can maybe come out. It's good to see you. And also here, as usual, it's popular writer Danny Chow. Oh, man. The three amigos just here. The food space is happening.

I heard rumors you're already writing food columns. It'll happen soon, Bill. This is a mess. to our boss man, Bill Simmons. NBA off season. Yeah, it'll happen soon. Don't worry about it. I love food.

I love writing about it. Give me some time. We still have the NBA draft season here, and this is how we wrap it up. You're right. This is the final episode of draft class right before free agency. All right, guys, let's do it then.

Let's do it. Draft started as expected. Arizona Center, DeAndre Ait, went number one to the Sons. Got Duke, Big Man, Marvin Bagley, to the Kings. Then number three, that's where things really, really got

interesting. Two teams passed on them. And then the Hawks dealt him. Luca Donchich went to the Dallas Mavericks. Luca! Number five pick. The Hawks took point guard, Tray Young from Oklahoma. It's got top five protected pick that begins unprotected

in 2023. But the big story here. The big story. For sure. Let's go with the lead here. John, you're a Dallas guy. I'm just going to ask you the go-to sideline reporter question. The Maverch just drafted Luca Donchitz. How are you feeling right now? Man, I've been scheming all morning. I've been like, hey, who do they trade for? Who do we sign? Like, we're going to be good next

This is happening. Let's go. Like, so there is no intention of this being like a, oh, we're going to be patient with our, with our rebuild. Do you think Mark Cuban is going to do something like that? Also, I guess do you think Rick Carlisle is going to want to sit this out? They don't have time for that. They're very impatient people. But this guy, like, this is the one rookie you draft and like, well, let's just make a playoff run now. Like, the other guys will take time, but this guy, I mean, he should be ready to go.

So how does this work? So you go, Luca, I think you go, Dennis and West Madles did one and two. Luca and Barnes are three and four. get a five in free agency. How much do you think Lucas steals the ball away from Dennis Smith here? It doesn't matter because in Carlisle's system, they're on two point guard.

So essentially you're replacing J.J. Barreya, or J.J. Barrera, as Charles Barkley would say, Berrae, Yogi Farrell, Devin Harris. Those guys are gone. You're putting Luke in the exact same spot in the lineup. It's the same thing. And Luca's like eight inches taller than all of those dudes. Yeah, I mean, my guy, Bray had a good year,

but obviously, if you get a 6-8 guy in that spot, it's better for you than a 5-7 guy. And all three of us had Luca number one on our board. Six foot eight. I'm pumped, man. I'm pumped. Accomplished everything there is to accomplish for an international player overseas.

A teenager could possibly do. I had an article about Luca. The youngest player before him was 21 to when year league. He's 19 to one year league final. Final four MVP. The youngest talk for him was Tony Koochooch, by the way. There are some fans listening to the draft class for the first time right now.

They're like, who is Luca Donchurch? Jonathan, what has you so excited about Luca Dantritch as a prospect? He's definitely the most accomplished European prospect ever. So last summer, He played with Gorin Dragich at Eurobasket, which is all the best teams in Europe play every two years. Him and Dragich won the Eurobasket championship. They beat guys like Gorsingas.

I mean, France, Spain, the Gasol. There's always good players in Eurobasket, and they won that. Then this year he goes to, he's at Real Madrid. Real Madrid is the top team in Europe. They win the Euro League championship. He's the best player. They win the Spanish League championship. He's the best player.

And the C's kind of parted for him because Sergio, their lead guard, went down with a knee injury early in the season. or before the season started. And Eurobasket. Yeah, and that kind of opened up, you know, Donchich being able to be this lead guy to show the transcendent passing ability that he has at 6-foot-8.

It was like Donovan Mitchell at Utah at Real Madrid. He had a bunch of vets around him. He had his role. They had the great Anthony Randolph on that team. Shout out. And you mentioned his role. I think, you know, some people are worried like, oh, what if he's a bus like Mario Herzogne?

Hazonia barely played overseas. It's a little kind of player. Mario doesn't pass. Eighth or ninth guy in the rotation as a teenager. Luca won MVP, elite passer for his age. Pick and roll ability is really, I think, elite for a teenager. At this level, would you guys agree? Obviously, adjusting to the NBA will be a new monster.

Like it is for any young player, but he already shows the ability to control speed, change tempo, speed up a little bit when he needs to. All the tools are there for him to be a really good playmaker in the NBA. The question moving forward is what level does it reach as a score? Only shot around 31% from 3. You know what's going to be nice? Guess who taught Jason Kidd about three-point shooting when he came to Dallas?

My guy, Dirk Novitsky! Him and Luca, they're going to be in the gym all summer. I was telling them over there, Luca, he'll tell Luca, you can go to Uptown like once a week, maybe twice, but I'll go to the gym, shoot baskets all the time. Dirk's like the best role model possible.

So is Holger still around? He comes every year, hang out with Dirk and do work. There it is. Holger's working with Luca. Let's make this happen. This is happening. And the thing is, it's not like Luka necessarily needs

to improve his mechanics or anything. I think it might just be development over time. He's a good future shooter. He's not a bad shooter at all. He has wonderful touch on floaters and layups. And he takes like dribble threes all the time. He takes like a really difficult shot. That's part of the reason.

And he can also, he creates space for himself, you know, off cuts and off movement so well. And you just, when you see him do these things, it's so smooth. His release is effortless. They just don't go in. Part of it, I'm concerned, you know, maybe it's fatigue. He hasn't stopped playing for the past two years. He's played around 85 games in the last calendar year. I think 85 is the number after the game he played Tuesday.

I think he finished with 161 or two games, 163 games, I think, since September 30th of 2016. Unbelievable. That's crazy. And that's one of the reasons like, he's 19. Hopefully he doesn't play Summer League. I think he's got it. I believe they said last time after the draft they're going to give him a break because he needs it.

So not even one parade game where they're like, oh, look at our star. It would be nice, but it's unnecessary. We've got Jalen Brunson run Summer League, Matt. We got a great summer league point card. A lot of the talk about Luca right now, we're talking about his skills, we're talking about what he's won. But I think the reason why he won so much at this level

is because of really how he plays. Super competitive player, very emotional. See, if anything, he's a hothead a bit. Like, he's really... For sure. And, you know, over time, maybe that channels into a positive for him, right? That's why I love having Dirk around. Dirk is such a great role model.

Hey, big brother, Uncle Dirk, man. Just talk about life all the time. I think that's been a little overblown with him being like a hothead. I'm just saying like personality wise. A 40-year-old European legend, like that's like the great, the best spot for a young guy like Luke can just learn. And you got Rick Carlisle as well, one of the better coaches in the NBA. Yeah, man, it's going to be great. The fascinating thing is the other side of it where he fell three spots, three teams, two teams that passed on him.

One team traded him. And, you know, go entering the draft process. It seems like a lot of teams might actually have had him around seventh or eighth on their board. Which seems fascinating. We all had him number one. But what do we know? I'm just blog boys. It's true.

But the thing is, I do think it's worth touching on some of the concerns that teams legitimately might have had. And one of them is his athleticism. He doesn't have a great first step. He doesn't necessarily have that second gear when he turns the corner. Jonathan, are you at all worried about that at the NBA level? Is it one hesitation you might have? It's a fair concern.

But I look at it even the worst case, he's Joe Ingalls. Like, Ingalls is not an athlete, elite athlete. I had a conversation yesterday. morning with an executive and we talked about Luca, I was like, what do you think about, like, you know, all these teams passing on him? Some teams haven't ranked like eighth or whatever. And he's like, I get it.

And the reason why is because maybe he's a Hito-Turkidoo type of player. And it's like, that's still a really good player. And the thing, too, like, Ingalls was such a big part of Utah this year. He was just incredible for them. He shot the ball, he defended. He moved the ball. And without Joe Ingalls, they're not in the play. I mean, maybe they're a playoff player.

Right. He was like a third best player. I mean, he held everything together. He was her third best player, right, for sure? Is that crazy? Joe Ingalls is Chris Vernon's favorite player for a shout-out Verno. Static reasons.

Sure, like I think Joe Engels would be a great worst-case scenario for any player to have. That's kind of the thing we had talked about Donchich earlier in the season and I brought up, you know, hey, okay, right now,

and it was around March, I was like, would you rather have Luca right now or Joe Ingalls right now on your team? I mean, right now I probably have Ingalls. Yeah,

she's great sure. Right. Engels like never missed. But like that, I feel like their value to a team, even at this stage in their careers, are pretty similar. I think one thing, too, also point out. So last year, the leading score on the early champs was Bogdan Bogdan Bogdanovich. I wouldn't do a story about him last year. King's favorite player.

He's good. Like, he had a good year right away. I mean, he's older, but whatever. He's 26. He came in. He had a good solid season for the Kings. I think that to me is like he'll be Bogdan at worst, I feel like, in Dallas. And to be a good player.

And then Luca as well, the one other thing is a defense. I tend to be on the side that I think his defensive weaknesses are a little bit overblown. He tries hard. He's smart. He is high basketball. In Dallas, you got Harry Barnes and West Matthews to guard bigger forwards. Sure. I mean, but really, like, with the switching defenses, I feel like there's no hiding anyway.

But I do think that some of his weaknesses on that. I don't think he would target him. You know what I mean? He won't be great, but I don't think he's like, let's just move our defense to attack him all the time. Because he's six foot eight, because he's strong, because he plays hard. and you would think, you know, over the course of the season, he's not playing. I mean, we won't oversell.

He won't be good at defense, but he should be like, okay at best. He's going to get more athletic over time. He's probably going to go back to P-3 in the summer. Yeah, lose a couple pounds. I mean, he was a completely different, in my eyes, he was a completely different athlete from the beginning of the EuroLeaks season and at the end of it.

Interesting. And so. As fatigue started to build, when he got to that 90th game over X amount of time. Yeah, man, it's like two months off. We're going to have him like playing tennis or something. You look at him and it's like his reaction. time on defense is there. He has a huge standing reach for a back court guy.

I think it adds up to being a guy who, yeah. I love that you guys are all in with me. This is great. I was working out to be kind of like, oh, let's calm down, but not, we're going for it. It's a kumbaya moment. And plus he rebounds. He does.

He gets forwards, too. You got to love that. And then for the other side of it here, two teams passed. Hawks dealt him. And I think that's the greatest risk of the draft that the Atlanta Hawks made. New general manager there, Travis Schling.

They're fascinating. They are. They traded down. They got the number five pick where they took Tray Young, and they also got a top five pick that's protected in 2019. I think it'll be, it'll convey that year because Dallas will make a push for the playoffs. But top five protected as well in 2020 before it's top three protected in 2021 and 2022.

And then eventually becomes unprotected in 2020. They're going to get it before then. I would think so. Probably next summer. Maybe Mavericks make a run a boogie. We'll talk about that another day. But if the Atlanta Hawks, they're building what looks like the baby warriors. They drafted Kevin Hurtr, who we have as a discount Clay Thompson in the NBA draft guy.

But would you say they're the top two shooters in the draft, Hurtor and Jung? Yes. And then they drafted Amari Spelman from Villanova, a guy who is a versatile defender needs to get better, needs to get a little better shape, as he did last year at Villanova to be as versatile as a Draymond type, but he can do a lot of little things. It seems, Danny, that they're building a Warriors type of team with, like John said, the two best shooters in the drafts.

Yeah, and you'd written this for today, and we had kind of, in the editing process, there's a fun line in the piece where it's like they're basically building a B-movie warriors. You know, you have Trey Young starring as, you know, Steph Curry. You got, you know, Kevin Herder as baby Clay. And Amari Spellman, you know,

the thing with Spellman is Schlank draft, Schenck was the guy who is credited as the guy who founded Dremont. I mean, you say something like you remake Spellman's body as you remake Dremont. Exactly. So there's some untapped potential in maybe getting him as a better, getting him in better conditioning. I think worth pointing out too, like not only are, like, Word or Young, they're going to be

really bad on defense, but they can pass it too. Like, not only that, it's two-leach shooters who can also pass the ball. And it's that, like, synergy effect they're gambling on. And that's the thing. It's like, Herder, Heter right now is a better ball handler and passer was than Clay was at the same stage. Yeah, that's fair. However, Herder is not quite the all-time great shooter that Clay Thompson is.

Also, it's defensively. It's similar, but a little different. It's certainly influenced by the Golden State Warriors. No doubt about that, Trevor Schlanks spent 12 years. Oh, I didn't realize it was that long. Like Danny said, he was a guy credited for really targeting Jim & Green. So he left Golden State after the 2016 season? 2017.

He was hired, May 2017. So he was there for the entire running. The whole thing, from Monta Ellis being traded, signing Andrew Bogan and everything else. Shout out Monta, man. Absolutely. But Trey Young, I have him outside the top 10 in my rankings, not quite as high on him as a lot of people are.

But I do get it. I understand the logic of it for them because, like we just talked about with Luca, you know, the shooting is still needs to get better, right? You know, with Trey Young, he is maybe the best shooter in the draft. He can shoot off screens. He can pull up from deep. He can pull up from mid-range if he needs to. He can really pull up for anywhere.

But his passing is very, very underrated. Yeah, for sure. And I think that's the dimension where Schlank is probably thinking we get a Steph-esque point guard compared to a maybe Turkglue-esque forward. And I can understand it, but it is certainly a monumental risk for them to pass on Luca Donchich for a guy who is going to be targeted on the defensive end of the floor and whose offense, there's no guarantee that he reaches

a Damien Lillard level as a player, isn't John? You also, you'll have two top ten picks next year, right? And you also, you got, so you've got Trey and Herder, and we like Tori and Prince and John Collins. They'll be bad, they'll at least be fun to watch. Well, for sure. You'll really be fun to watch, yeah. They're going to be a league pass team for which that's a super deep cut for the shrewd draft.

That's Trey Young, though, makes it interesting for anybody. Yeah, absolutely. I think the Hawks will be one of those weird hipster league past darlings. Also, maybe Trey Young could sell tickets, just jack and shots. That's kind of what I think a lot of these teams in just under the top three are kind of baking on. Like, with Trey Young, you get a lot of star potential. Like, just like the circus of it all. It'll be fun to watch that.

What does Atlanta care? They don't ever come out anyways. Maybe that'll do something. Are we too optimistic about this for Atlanta? Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't work. Look, imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, but, like, it never actually, you know,

knockoffs never actually get better than the original. So, like, it's never going to be better than the Warriors. What we're going to watch is, like, a very weird, like, almost uncanny valley, like, oh, we're looking at something that kind of looks like... Uncanny Valley is good. I like that. Like, it kind of looks like the Warriors. Well, but also, don't they have, like, three or four more picks the next two years?

They got a bunch. They have a bunch. I mean, they're drafting, like, six more guys. This is just a beat. For sure. And that's part of it where they have their foundation, a bunch of young players, very appealing young core, and then they have cap flexibility moving forward.

But if they got like Cam Reddish next year, and just said, F it, keep shooting. I mean, they're going to be a bad team. Yeah, that would be really bad. And so they're going to have another top pick. Maybe they get R.J. Barrett. Maybe he'd be nice. Maybe they package that Mavericks pick with their own pick

and move up for somebody. The fact is, is that they're in a really enviable position moving forward with an appealing encore. I mean, they're just going to be bad for all, which that's whatever, as a rebuilding team. For sure. And the question is going to be, though, Luca Donchage and get Tray Young in that future pick.

We don't know what the deal is going to look like for a year. That's going to, that's a five years downline question. I got some Zen moment. If you're Atlanta, it's over now. It's done. Don't worry about it. The thing's been done. We're going forward.

This is our team. Lucas's great. Whatever. It doesn't matter. And the one thing I do appreciate, really all top three teams that did pass on Luca is they weren't letting fan influence their decision. What do we know? They could be, you could suck.

You know, the Kings number two, every King's fan in the world, including Riley Maca T from here at the ringer.com wanted Luca Dantritch. They took Bagley anyway. Number three, Hawks fans not happy they passed on Luca Dantritch. They took Trey Young anyway. They just did what they wanted to do.

And I think at least for now, that's a sign that ownership, they have a new owner there, Tony Ressler, as at least giving Schlick the freedom to do whatever the hell he wants. That's a good point. Owners picking picks doesn't seem to work out very well. Interestingly, also in this year's draft,

five of the top seven picks were big in a league where it's getting smaller. More teams are playing small ball. You're seeing fewer two big lineups. DeAndre 8 went number one. Marvin Begley went number two. Jaron Jackson went fourth to the Grizzlies. Mo Bamba went sixth to the Orlando Magic. Then Wendell Carter went seventh to the Chicago Bulls.

Is the league going to get bigger? Or are we going to look back at this year's draft and think to ourselves, man, what were these teams thinking passing on these smaller guards, these wings? like Kilberges, or Trey Young, or Miles Bridges, whoever it is. How are we going to look back

at this draft? I guess here's the thing, like even if the league doesn't get bigger, maybe the good guards are in the next draft and two drafts from now. So if you're like,

the guards and this draft aren't great, you can't be like, I'm going to get a guard. But if you think, you know what I mean? Like maybe, I think it will get small, maybe these aren't good guards.

So if you don't think they're the best, don't draft them. Yeah, I just think, you, especially with the top five picks, you're looking for guys who have the potential

to change your franchise forever. And if you see that in these bigs, there's no reason to go the other way just because of what is currently happening in the NBA. Yeah, you've got to believe in the guy you're taking. You have to believe in the guy you're taking. And I think whether we, how we look upon this draft five years from now,

it's contingent on how good these guys are. If these guys are good, it forces the NBA to be a different, you know, a different league. Exactly, Danny. I mean, you and I have talked about this. You wrote about it as well where I think right now, like entering this year's draft, there's been a lot of focus on what the league looks like in the playoffs now. But in reality, like when the Warriors built their team drafting,

Stefan Curry in 2009, Clay Thompson in 2011, Drey Mongrin in 2012, nobody was talking about like, oh, this is going to be great for today's league. They just made their picks. And in reality, it led to the type of team that they have now that has changed things. But the big men could also change things the other way as well, because there's a lot of good bigs in league. Chris Daps,

Joel Embed, so on and so forth. There's a lot of bigs coming in 2020 as well. And I think these picks don't matter this year. It doesn't matter if they fit in today's league. It's about what it looks like in 2022, 2022, 23, and so on into the future. That's what matters, and I think we are going to get bigger in the future. Well, one thing I think, though, I feel like the ability to shoot threes off the dribble is that's, like, the game changer. Like, that's what makes big so much harder these days is, like, I think there's be more and more

guards who can consistently make, pull up stepback threes. I think that raises the bar for big men, especially in a playoff series. And that's the question for all these guys. Can you guard guards who can shoot threes off the dribble? If you can do that, you'll be fine. If you can't do that, I think it's going to be harder and harder for you. Yeah, I mean, defensive versatility certainly doesn't matter. I think really no matter what the size of the player is in the floor. I mean, everyone's got to do it. Whether you're 5'10 or 7 foot 2, but you're going to need to be able to switch and defend multiple positions, at least at a competent level. Not everybody can be dream on that.

I mean, one thing we're not discussing is whether maybe these bigs can also play small. Like, hey, Lottie DeVox said Marvin Bagley. Yeah. Three position player. Yeah. He did say that. He said could play both forward spots. Both forward spots.

Very interesting. And I remember a couple years ago, remember one of the Sixers had and Beed Okaford, Noel. I was like, man, I wish they would play a supersized lineup with like the smallest player at six foot 10. And they might be able to do that with like the smallest player being six foot nine. I wonder with like these skilled bigs, there's a way to go super big as well. I will say Bagley has way more perimeter game than guys like Noel and, I mean, Embed.

For sure. I mean I did, but Noel and Oakville. Bagley's not perimeter game. Bagley can handle in the open floor. He can shoot three is at least an average level. We'll see what level he makes. I mean, I think for me, like with him,

I think it's a project. It's like making him more perimeter warrior. Like, you know when Boogie came into the league in Sacramento. It was very much, I'm a post guy. I want to shoot threes. And he grew into a perimeter guy. I think Bagley is the same thing has to happen. Jonathan, you have Jared Jackson is the top.

That's my guy. JJ, Jay. So for Chris Vernon and the Memphis Grizzlies fans, what is it about Jared Jackson that has him? He's the number one big on your board. I think the two things. Three points shooting, three points shooting, perimeter defense, rim protection. I think he can do all those three things at a high level.

I love my centers. You can do those three things. Memphis fans are going to have to be patient, though, only 18 years old. I don't know how much he's going to be able to contribute. We'll even start right now? Maybe you won't. Maybe, but I do wonder what kind of role he'll play when they're trying to win games early on.

I'm not sure it'll be in the end. Yeah, he might not be in it. Yeah, but you know what? Like for them, it's really about, again, three, four years now. It's the post-Marcosol era. It's when Mike Connolly's towards the end of his massive contract, when Jared and Jackson, you would hope, is kind of the bridge into the near. And I have the same thing.

I like Marcus Saul's a better in for him. That's awesome. I should be good. And then we Bomba number six and Wendell Carter at seven. Both of those guys. I love both. I know both. I believe, John, you have Bomba 11, Carter, 10.

Danny, you like Bamba or Carter as well? I like Bamba. Carter, I'm a little iffy on, but I mean, the skills, the skill set with Carter is undeniable. I just, with bomb on. I think he needs a point guard real bad. They need to get someone in, like, next year. For Orlando.

Oh, yeah. Orlando's got out of point guard. I mean, you can say the same about Chicago, really. Like, Christon shaky. I remember about Christon this year. He's a really nice guy. He may, I don't know. He's a good guy.

And let's hit quickly on DeAndre Aton. Oh, for sure. Number one guy in the draft. For Phoenix, they had an interesting draft where they drafted Eliacobo. with the 30 first pick, and they also made a trade in the middle of the draft, where they traded up to get Mikhail Bridges from Villanova.

That was interesting. Yeah, that was very wild. They drafted Zaire Smith. Sixers head coach slash general manager, Brett Brown, said, like, they had Bridges and they were stoked, and then Tons made a hard, hard push to trade for Bridges. Right. They gave up a lot to get them.

Interesting. They gave up an unprotected Miami first-round pick on 2021. And that could be the year high schoolers are allowed to enter the draft. Don't know that for sure. We don't know what Miami might be a contender there. I just hope we're still around, man. You know, this is going to be a presidential election. Like, how's 2020, man?

We'll get 2020 first. Assuming we're still here and the NBA is still thriving. I last sign I felt a little bit iffy about Phoenix's draft, but after sleeping on it, I like it. Because I love Okobo. Yeah, that was a great pick at 31. Yeah, it was. I like that's a steal right there. And I just feel like you kind of get the outline of the team that they want to be.

Like, you see, you know, with bridges, you can. you got a guy who's just solid and he's going to be able to cover for a lot of what Booker can't do. And, you know, Okobo, you know, you're looking at maybe a point guard of the future. He's definitely not going to be that guy

next season. Next season's probably going to be Brandon Knight who I don't think anyone has thought about it for the past two years. Is he going to start a point card for them? I mean, he's better than any of their options right now, right? Put it this way. This is their young core. It's just like a projected starting five. DeAndre Aiton, Mikhail Bridges,

Josh Jackson, Devin Booker, Eliacoa. I'm on that. That's a nice five. Then off the bench, you got Dragon Bender, Marquis, Chris, T.J. Warren, Tyler Ulo.

So from there, it's like you have nine young guys. I like it. Moving forward, some of them could be trade pieces. Some of them are keepers. Obviously, Devin Booker is your star.

He's 21 years old, average about 25 points per game. We all like Josh Jackson, right? We all do, yes. And I think we all feel pretty good about McKillbridge's. I'm a little bit lower on him than you guys, but we all like him.

I mean, there's a scenario. where I can see them running like a three-guard backcourt of Booker, Bridges, and Jackson. Do you think Booker can just be the point all the time? I mean, if you have him and Jackson out there, both of them have good vision. They both have ball handling and passing. Yeah. Like Jackson especially in the open court. I would be totally down.

That'd be awesome. Let's just see Jackson and Booker running point. All six guys. Oh my goodness. And then with DeAndre Aiton, obviously with him, there's a supreme offensive potential for him to stretch the four from three, for him to play inside. really good rebounder. The question with him, and really, I think the most important factor

for their future moving forward is his defense. For sure. Right? Because Okobo, average, above average defender, Devin Booker, maybe playoff situations. He can be average,

but during the regular season, he's been... It's just Josh Jackson right now. Yeah, Jackson. And Bender, potentially, long term, we'll see. It's still only 20 years old. But DeAndre Aten is really the guy

who can make this go. If Aiton manages to reach his potential on the defense's end of the floor, they could be one of those contending teams through the 20-20s. The better DeAndre Aden is at defense, the better the team is. It's like a direct correlation. As Aiden gets better on defense, that team's going to be better.

So it's like, it's all on you, man. This is your team. If you play good defense, we're going to be a really good team. Let's go. And if this is a Carly Anthony Town situation where the defense just actually kind of lags from his college production, it's really hard to see it. I would say you've got to be patient, man. It's like Deioners have come in the league.

He's going to want to score, which is fine. Like, it might take him two, three, four years to get better at defense. So just be patient. You've got to be patient with him. I think he showed flashes. He definitely has tools. I mean, he has all the tools. He's just all the tools.

Excellent athlete. I mean, you know, excellent body as well. I mean, he's strong. He's quick. Incredible. I mean, I guess, I guess incredible. The potential is there.

We're going to take a quick break. And after that, we're going to talk about Michael Porter, free falling to the 14th pick. First, we've got to hear from our sponsors. Today's ringer NBA show, draft class is brought to you by Seek. Buying tickets can be complicated and confusing,

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He was projected before the season as a top three pick. Then he had his back surgery. And he was floating around at number two. He got a link like a week ago to number two. Yeah. A week ago. Yeah, exactly. And then suddenly, I don't know where, the L.A. Clippers, he fell to 12 and 13.

And I know Jerry West liked him. Ballmer's guy? Steve Balmer, Seattle guy liked him. I wonder what happened there. And they passed on him. And that says to me that at Denver, at 14, if the Clippers passed on him, something's up. And I still think it's worth the risk, though, for Denver.

It is worth the risk. With Porter's scoring town. Because they're already pretty good. They don't need him to be good right now anyways. And he might sit out the whole year. Yeah, whatever. So with Porter, though, is he worth the risk, though, at that point in the with the injury risk?

Because there's other guys you like that. liked on the board, though, isn't there, John? I would have taken Zaire over him, but everybody else, I'd be happy to just... And that's the funny thing, as I had heard before the draft, that Zaire Smith would have been the guy. He had been awesome in Denver. I love Zaire. That's my guy. I think Zaire was the guy they absolutely would have taken had Michael Porter not been there.

Had Michael Porter not been there? So, I... It was reported that Michael Porter hadn't actually spoken with the team until draft day, right? The Nuggets? Interesting. Yeah, well, by Woody, it's such a doubt of his range. I think that was the case. And I think it's a good situation for both teams because, look, the Nuggets are already a fringe playoff team. They're probably going to make it next year if all things go well with Paul Millsap. You let Michael

Porter sit out a year, kind of get a feel for the NBA lifestyle, get a feel for what the team expects from him and what they need him to grow, like, grow into. I think it makes sense. I think so too. And I'm happy for him that he fell. And the reason why is because he's a guy who, for weeks prior to the draft. He's talking about how like, I'm next KD, Yon San Jaco, Tracy McGrady. And NBA teams last month had calmed by after they interviewed him. There was one time I was talking to two executives from two different teams. And one of them remarked how like he said, Michael Porter said to us like,

you know, I have no weaknesses. And then the other guy would chimed in. He's like, he said like the same thing to us. He's like so cocky and so confident. And it's like, that's good. But now he has a chip on his shoulder where he's like, maybe he sits out the year and learns what he needs to do in order to see the NBA. on them. Less pressure. If you go to Sacramento, there's so much pressure on him.

As a number two guy, and for a losing team that doesn't made the playoffs and a hundred years. Don't put too much wet in this guy's back, you know, I don't know. I just,

you know, a bad back is kind of a weakness. It's just like, I think this is a great spot for it. I think you're absolutely like. Just less money. Sorry, buddy. You're still well paid.

I mean, like we're not doctor's hair. He had the same, sounds like he had the same injury that Tiger Woods had, which is especially scary and alarming. But assuming, assuming the injuries are fine, has a chip on a,

shoulder now. And then as a player for Denver, I like a lot of their youth. They have a great passing big man and Nicole Yokic. They have good guys in the back court. Jamal Murray, Gary Harris. And now they get a go to go to score forward. With Yokic, you don't need Porter to like pass too much, right? You can just like go get your shot. Yokch would get you the ball. Like, let's shoot 20 times, but Yokch are how the ball and then you just kind of take your shots. That works really well. Yeah, having Yokich there creates a completely different ecosystem. I think he makes Murray a lot better too, but the same thing. It's like just take your shots. I'll move the ball for you. I love Yokchch. I like it. I like the fit for Denver. It's worth the risk at that point in the drafts. Yeah, absolutely.

Let's do some quick hits. Okay. Who had the best drafts? I mean, I think it's the Mavs. It's the Dallas Mavericks for sure. I think with that just ballsy move to move up for Luca Dantritch, also getting Jalen Brunson a reliable point guard in the second round. They had a really, really good night. It could be a franchise changing night.

And then moving forward into the summer, we'll see what they do. The off season is not over for them. They want to potentially pursue DeMarcus Cousins or Clint Capella, could chase Julius Randall or DJ. if he enters the Afri agency, which I think he will. Dwight? Yeah, who knows? We've been scheming about it. Favors.

I mean, all kinds of guys. Put it this way. They're going to have a young core with Dennis Smith and Luca Donchurchin and so on and so forth with potentially a competitive team. And I love what they're doing. I feel good for Dallas Mavers.

Who's the best player fit situation? I guess I'll give one. Sixers. I'll pay them as a second. I love what they did. So getting Zaire, then having that extra pick.

Getting Zaire on that team. plus the extra pick. And my guy, Shake Mill and SMU. I still believe in Shake. We still believe. Me and Shark still believe. We're on the Shake Island here. I do think it's worth mentioning for Philly that, you know,

they save about $1 million in cap space by trading that from 10 to 16, which helps. It could help moving forward. If they want to have their super massive offseason getting Kauai and LeBron, every cent's going to matter, even just one of those guys, those extra cap savings matters. And guess what? I think Zaire Smith is a better process.

Yeah, we all like Zaire, man. He's going to be so much fun to watch next year. Kim Katten Ups from Simmons. Oh, my goodness. So how, I mean, maybe this is off topic, but how much do the Sixers need to offload to be able to give the, like, full 10-year max? So for them, right now, it depends on the order of operations. If you're trading for Kauai, like, you've got to give up a lot.

Like, Fultz, Covington, Anderson, Cork, Maas, Baylis, so on so forth. But it wouldn't be as difficult for them to unload the necessary pieces to create max cap space. that would be an easy process. It depends on who you're bringing back and what majoritic science. Would you go for Kauai? I think I'd just do it. Oh, for sure.

Just go for Kauai. We'll put it this way. If you don't go for Kauai, it means that your doctor, the guy who looked at him in New York, that's a good point. That means he gave it a no-go. But if he would know better

than anybody else if Kauai is going to be okay moving forward. Right. So that gives him a little bit of an advantage. He'd be incredible on that team. I'd go for it. Let's go. It would be fascinating.

Even more so of LeBron. We'll see, though. I think you're right, even more so, because better fit with the Simmons. Way better fit. Even though, just as a quick aside, I would love to see LeBron push Simmons off ball for about two, three years. Be fascinating. Imagine those guys doing a four-by pick and roll. Simmons as the role man.

Oh, that'd be crazy. What's the best player fit situation, Danny? You know, I, maybe people will disagree with this, but like, I really like the Lonnie Walker. Yes. Coach Popovich Union here. Team Lonnie. So there was a fantastic factory that was brought out on Twitter. last night. Lonnie Walker is the first player in Spurs history to be born after they won their first

championship. Oh, that's crazy. We are all old. We are all way old. We're definitely washed for sure. I just think Lonnie Walker at that stage in the draft has as much star potential as anyone, like, post-lottery. And with the Spurs being in such flux, you really have to take a chance and you really have to believe that Pop can, you know, get a hold of Lonnie and rein in his interest and rein in his potential. I think that's awesome. We talked about this last night on our live show during the draft where Lonnie Walker, like a lot of it, like he's a good shooter,

not a great shooter. He's a good defender, not a great defender. Maybe the Spurs can turn that goodness into greatest for them. I like him and Dejante Murray too. I think that works well. It's definitely a good backcourt pairing. And, you know, in terms of fit, I mean, we're almost going basic here with like the best coaches,

but Boston Celtics draft on Robert Williams. Oh, of course. I was going to say Williams. It's a wonderful for William specifically because he's a guy that's had motor issues, some off-court issues as well. Life coach Brad Stevens, man. Yeah, he's got lists. He's got Brad Stevens now and a defensive culture for him that maybe they turn him on.

Maybe the green light goes on for him and he becomes that player that he can be. You've probably seen him more than anybody in Texas, John. Yeah. I mean, athletically, he's not far off these top guys. Not at all. I mean, he's a crazy athlete. And he would have been a lottery picked last year. Yeah, he would have for sure.

He was a borderline lottery picked this year before. And he played like in the worst possible team. It was so bad. I had heard there's a medical question with him perhaps. But we'll see with that. In addition to the off-course stuff. One thing with Robert Williams, it's something that I think Brad Stevens mentioned

that he kind of doesn't see Williams as quite the one-dimensional rim runner type. I love it. So basically we're looking at maybe another Aaron Bain situation. And this is something that actually... He's got some passing ability. He's not unskilled. He just can't shoot. He just can't shoot.

Robert Williams, before his sophomore season, had talked about wanting to expand his game, wanting to shoot more 3s. And then he shot 47% from free throw line. Yeah, and then none of it. None of it showed. I will say, like, I remember the first time I watched Robert Williams, they were playing Kentucky two years ago,

and he had a pull-up jump shot, and I was just like, what? How could I get a pull-up jump shot? It doesn't even make sense. He did nothing else the entire game, but I was like, I'm interested in the guy that made you pull-up jumpers. Robert Williams was probably the first round steal of night.

Second round, steal of the night for me is first pick in the second round. Eli, Cocoa. French point guard. Is he the third best shooter in this draft maybe? Top five for sure. He's good. He's good.

I think Acobo, he, I mean, we talk about like, you know, Trae Young, best shooter, you know, Cheyles was Alexander, best defender, Colin Sexton, best attacking the rim. Acobo has a little bit of all of that. And I'm a little bit surprised he slipped out of the first round. So for Phoenix to get him at that pick is really good. Danny, how about yourself in the second round?

I like Kyrie Thomas, who eventually made his way to the pistons. Jeez, he was all over the place. So, yeah, he was the 38th pick. And they kind of gathered a couple of those guys. So they got Kyrie Thomas, they got Bruce Brown. And so you're looking at basically replacements for, you know, Avery Bradley, for Langston Galloway. You know, guys who have much more upside.

But along the lines of very similar profile, three and D guys, tough guys. Those are good cops. You know, defensive-minded players. I'm into it. I'll say for me, I'll go the Minnesota Timberwolves. I think the guys they got they got Josh Okie from Gerechek in the first round and then Kada Bates' job

fell a lot in the second from Ohio State. They can both... They can shoot it, they can kind of defend it. I think they can... If Tibbs would play these guys, they'd help these teams. Yeah, those are NBA-ready guys. Yeah, I mean, they can do a very simple roles which they shoot and defend.

What was the guttiest decision? Is it just the Cox-taking Trey Young? Or is there another decision in the draft that could turn out to be a palsy choice? I mean... I'm thinking whatever the Clippers does. Yes, I agree with that. Clippers were...

Jerome Robinson, Boston College Guard with a 13th pick. We'd heard all of the rumors. All of them. They want Obama. They want Michael Porter. They want Luca. They end up with Shea Gilgis Alexander and Jerome Robinson,

who was not a lottery prospect for most of the year, up until about maybe four days ago. Played three seasons at Boston College. and the way it was described to me with him is that, you know, at Boston College, he turned into a two-guard. He played point card as a freshman, then they played to play the two. They were in Kai Bowman, yeah. And he can score.

Like, he can get buckets from three off the dribble, off screens. He's a first little score. He's very switchy. Looks like Jamal Crawford. You're selling me, KOC. You're selling me. The concern with him is playmaking. Like, it seemed watching BC like, this is a selfish player.

He doesn't pass the ball. But I was told that he was simply doing his job in that he has shown more playmaking and workouts that he can do more. They had Bowman to run point last year. So, yeah, it makes sense. And if you're the Clippers, maybe, or these other teams, I know the Bucks like them at 17, maybe it's like, this guy can play both guard spots for us, six foot five, perfect guard for today's league.

I'm just playing, I wouldn't have taken him there either. Right. But I'm just saying maybe that's the logic. I will say Jerry West. I don't want to ever be like, the great Jerry. If he says something, I'm not going to be like Jerry West was a fool. Like that's crazy. And by the way, these are the guards in their roster now.

Austin Rivers, Lou Williams, Teodosich, Patrick Beverly. See, I don't care about that. Juan Evans, Darry is Stormwell, then Shiguel's how much of those first six guys are long-term pieces for them?

None of them. So I'm not to worry about that. It is fascinating though, this season though, if they do have like seven guards in their rotation. That'll be fun to watch. The one thing with Jerome Robinson

is there was a ESPN pre-draft workout video where he talks about how he fits in the modern NBA and he specifically references the Houston Rockets. Yeah. And he almost like,

it almost makes it sound like he was making a pitch as, hey, I could have been one of those ISO scores. I could have been one of those playmaking guards in a Western Conference final series. So, like, I can see how teams would, like,

buy into that confidence. I would say the downside is, like, if he's Jordan Clarkson is the downside. That'd be the downside. But, I mean, he has tools. We're really just trying to get Isaac off the ledge. Yes, exactly. He'll be okay. One quick aside is, I think it's interesting. How you mentioned, the Clippers trying to trade up. Another team that I heard is trying to trade up

was the Bulls. And one of the difficulties I heard for them entering the night was that they had promised Boise State forward Chandler Hutchison with a 22nd pick. Last month the week of the NBA Combine, Hutchinson shut down workouts. Everybody's known he's gotten promised since that week.

And if they had the 22nd pick in the draft to use in a package with 7, I think it would have been more easier for them to move up. But they promised Hutchinson. So they weren't able to trade the pick. You can't break a promise unless you get a pick higher in the draft. And it just wasn't possible. I feel like they

might have. Look, Hutchison could work out. Wendell Carter, I love, but I do wonder if we'll look back at that promise of going command. They could have went to Memphis at four maybe. Who knows? Maybe they get up the three. Who knows? Who knows? Well, I think Atlanta won't try young and they couldn't go below six. I don't know. I'm not sure.

You're not sure about that? I don't know. I don't know. There's a lot of, and maybe Atlanta wouldn't have went to seven because of the noise about them going for Tray Young, but I don't know if it would have been the guy for them there. Who knows? Wow. I didn't even think about that. That's a good point, KOC.

It's interesting. I like Hutchison, but I didn't even think about that. why promise in the late 20s? I don't really see it. I mean, you believe in a guy. Especially that early. I mean, I guess Simon's got promised, right? I mean, people do it.

And I think Die Venchenza did it at 20 as well, but he didn't end up getting there. Someone took him at first. I mean, it happens. They had those two picks, so it's like, ah, that's tough. What was the biggest disappointment of the night, whether it's for fans, players, teams? I just kind of think it was the fact that the Kings did exactly what

we thought they were going to do for the past three or four years. is. Like, they were, in my opinion, the kind of the lynchpin of the draft. They determined how everything else would shake out. They didn't trade. They didn't draft Luca. I'm like, Bagley is a very high upside player. I'm just a little bummed. Casey, I got an idea for you. What if they trade it for Ryan Anderson, the Kings? The Kings. Because they'll get him for nothing, probably.

Home town boy. I mean, I want more than Ryan Anderson. I want some future picks, I want some assets. Come on, Daryl, give me something. Right? Get something. Come on, D'Orell. And then he's the four, Bagley's the five, Deeran's the one.

They won't guard anybody, but at least they would score points, you know. They were fun. It was fun. Sharks made the pitch earlier today that they would be, what was it? I was speaking high for ball. Yeah, you hedged it.

They would be a top 15 offense. I think they sign Rodney Hood and they have bogged on. It's funny. When I ever read Deeran Fox, he's like, our offense is pretty good. I don't even remember. Was it good? It wasn't.

I don't think so. It wasn't very good. Fake news, Dearen. It's like, Darren, let me show you these numbers here. Well, best moment of the draft in my eyes last night, Adrian Wojianowski, just storming through the doors after Mark Stein broke some picks early, and he starts just saying,

they fancy this player, they have interest in this player. They will not resist drafting this player. Adrian is not a team first guy, apparently, man. It made watching the drafts so much fun. It was funny. It was funny. It was the most personality we'd really seen out of Woj, who just has a very steely veneer.

Yes. Yeah, it was beautiful. It was like true poetry, and I'm so glad that Ringer Coffee Chief, Craig Gaines wrote an entire piece, ranking every single one of his tweets according to, you know, the usage of those verbs and the usage of those euphemisms.

It was a perfect, perfect quick read. I really recommend reading it. It was very amusing, for sure. It is like you would like just hearing that you might be listening and thinking like that doesn't sound interesting. But you read it like it makes you laugh consistently. Seriously. So funny. Craig is a guy who has devoted his entire life to words.

Yes. And him talking about it in terms of a guy who has devoted his entire life to breaking news. It's just a perfect, perfect marriage. And the draft should be fun. And it was fun. That was right. That was great time. It was a good time.

And this draft class has been a blast of season guys. Hasn't it been? I've enjoyed it, man. It's been fun. It's been great. Summer school, baby. I'm about to hit the vacation up. Let's do this.

Jonathan, so fun doing this in person with you today. Yeah, we'll have to do us every year, man. It's fun. Danny. Absolutely. Always a pleasure. Shout out to Isaac. Shout out Isaac Lee.

SGA is going to make good for you, man. Don't be too down. From Heron Beautiful Los Angeles, thank you so much for listening to draft class. Please rate the Ringer NBA show, five stars on iTunes or wherever you listen to your podcast. Give us a thumbs up on YouTube as well. Special shout out to my friend and the biggest NBA fan.

I know, Elon Musk. Elon finally answered. I get him a shout out now. Yeah, yeah, that's right. That was the thing of the year for sure. I was literally jumping up and down in my apartment. Lake Show. It's so great.

Yes, Lake Show. I feel good about getting Elon on the show. Next year. No, get that Tesla, man. Get that push for Tesla. You need a car, right? Yeah, I do need a car. Hey, celebrity endorsement right now.

I'll take a Tesla over draft time. Kevin O Tesla. If there any Tesla employees listening. Thank you, Elon. Thank you so much. It's been great. We love the back and forth to you guys. Thank you for listening.

Anyway, guys, it's on a free agent. Here we go. Have fun this weekend. Peace out.