The Ringer NBA Show - 2019 NBA Award SZN Is Here | Group Chat

Episode Date: March 28, 2019

We hand out some traditional awards for the 2018-19 NBA season, as well as a bevy of 'Group Chat'–specific ones—like Most Washed, the Best Player in the World Belt, and the Skeleton Key Award. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Haley O’Shaughnessy, Paolo Uggetti Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, welcome to the Ringer podcast network. This week on The Ringer.com, it's 1999 movies week. Already up on the site, we've released parts one and two of the top 50 movies of 1999. And later this week, Shea Serrano is writing about The Matrix. Andrew Goudadarro is writing about cruel intentions. And Rob Parvilla argues why Being John Malkovich is the best movie of that year. You can also check out the Big Picture podcast to hear Sean Fennacy, Amanda Dobbins, and Chris Ryan share their top five favorite movies from 1999.

Check out those articles on the ringer.com and listen to the big picture wherever you get your podcasts. Basketball is very good. The wizards underpaid John Wall. AD should resign with the pelicans. The Nets actually won the Celtics trade. Basketball is very good. Hello and welcome to the Ringer NBA show. This is the group chat.

I'm Justin Varyer. Joining me as always my two favorite MVP candidates. Hili O'Shaughnessy. We're more like most improved. Which one are you going to vote for, Justin? I can't reveal my ballot just yet. That's Paul Ugetty. Bobby Wagner also here, reluctantly nodding

in the background when we say things that he disapproves of. Guys, awards right around the corner. We're about like two weeks away from the end of the regular season. I think a lot of people are kind of talking around this. They haven't really kind of cemented who they're going to vote for. But I don't know. I feel like at this point, if something's really going to swing your choice... Choose an MVP, you coward.

Exactly. There you go. That's give me the title of its podcast. That's exactly what we're saying. So we're going to do MVP in addition to a lot of other awards. We're going to pick off the traditional ballot, but we're not going to do a lot of the ones that we just don't really see all that valuable. Sixth Man in the Year award, I think it's just like a total joke award. Now we call the Lou Williams Award.

Right. He's probably going to win again. Why do you think it's a joke award? It rewards someone for having a flaw, which is like that they refuse to... Wow, that is incredible. Okay, that's the award I have to win. You are the best player who won't start. Here's the thing.

Here's what I will argue for that, is that on a bunch of other teams, Lou Williams would start. And sometimes they have to take the L and come off the bench because they're better at it. So that sucks. So you're getting rewarded for not having a lot. lot of credit. Right. And you're going up

against worst competition most of the time, which is probably why people want to be six-minute because you can just pad your stats. Not if you're the sixth man, then you're usually coming in first and you get to think about like Chris Paul.

The subs are still kind of coming in and out. You're definitely playing more minutes against worse players. And I don't mean that Chris Paul doesn't start to clarify. I just mean that, yeah, you know.

But sixth man, you're out. And also out, defensive player of the year. Just because like... What? This isn't weird. I'm very curious about

how you're discus to choose which awards like you care about. We should hoist a defensive player of the year up because it's so hard anymore to get anyone to play defense. Sure, but it's also boring to talk about. That's true. That's fair. That's true. By like the rigorous process by which we decided these were, I looked at the awards, thought some were boring and some weren't and then tossed in some other awards and air quotes that we did a story on last year.

So we'll toss those in. But let's start with MVP. It's the big one. I think what's interesting about the conversation about MVP before we get into actual choices here is that it's slowly devolving into both Hardin and Janus are equally like acceptable choices. They're not for Vegas. I just want to point that out. Interesting.

Right. Janice is still the clear favorite. Hmm. It's hard to argue with that because of the formula, right? The like best team, like best record guy who is taken a leap substantial enough to go from star to superstar. It's like it has all the makings of a right. year. I think, like you said, though, the conversation is more like, is pitting them more, like, even. I think that what allows Hardin to be in the

conversation so much this year is Russ's MVP season. Okay. Because it really set a, I mean, I don't want to say set a precedent because a lot of people were upset about it afterwards and revisionist history says that Hardin should have won. But, I mean, that was such an extreme case where it was not the typical MVP team. and it was really rewarding this guy for taking a team from what could be very average to good whereas usually we want a team

that's good to great. Right, we usually just pick off the best player, best team. Sure. But with Russ, it seems like it opened the door to other possibilities. I think, and also happening around that time is like we just know more.

Like there's just so much publicly available data. You have more people like talking to people on teams who are filling out. I do feel like it's a more rigorous, process to be like a ballot voter because like your vote is public and the people who are talking about this on podcast are like really like digging into this stuff. So there's almost like a peer pressure to like be as thorough as possible. And it can also affect how much money they get paid in the future, which is insane that we still allow that. Well, I don't know if I would agree that it was

because it's because of the Russ season that you're talking about how like he sort of just put up numbers or whatever. I think with Hardin, it's more... I don't think it's that he put up numbers. It's not the numbers for me. I don't think it's the triple double. Just the narrative. No, not even that. It's that he... Well, I guess, yes, it was their narrative, but not, it's not the, like, it was a feel-good story. It was insane what he did. Kind of like he carried a team. He literally carried a team that otherwise would have been complete shit. Right. And Hardin did that for a good stretch of the year. And it's just remarkable. Yet, I will say, like, his stretch was far more efficient.

and thus in 2019 more impressive than Russ's stretch. Yeah, just more points. And just the way I think that he did it in a lot of ways, which wasn't just like, I'm going to accumulate a lot of stats of where a course of time, a period of time. Sometimes it would be like he had 50 and like he needed to hit a game

winner for them to still win. Oh no, he absolutely had to do it. You know, he had more of these sort of memorable moments or whatever. I think it's interesting when we talk about like, how do we define, like how are we going to remember that season? Like,

I think we are going to remember that season as a Russ, you know, Russ's triple double year. And I don't know how we're going to remember this season. Are we going to remember as more of like the Janus leap or the hardened, like, absurd scoring run that he's still on. I mean, he's averaging over 36 points. I want to point out that this is also triple double year for Russell Westbrook. Yeah, I think he's had one ever since. I think this is third.

Yeah, I think that Russ year is interesting because I think it almost became like religion in a lot of ways. like each one got separated into a specific category where Leonard was kind of like the nerd sheet guy. Russ obviously had the numbers. Russ was the eye test guy. Yeah. And Hardin was the analytics guy. Right.

He kind of fell in the middle. And in retrospect, you could definitely paint guys even more broadly, where Russ definitely seems like he was stat padding and all his other stuff. I think it's interesting this year that Janus and Hardin, they blur those lines a little bit. Statistically, they're both giants. Right. The difference, I would say, is what you guys.

were kind of getting at, Hardin carried a team that needed him to carry it. He pretty much had to go supernova. He had to become this one-man offense in order for the rockets to have a chance. And as we've seen over the past couple games, past 20 games, the rockets have ascended when they've gotten a few more pieces around him. They've become a really legitimate challenger to the Warriors. And at a certain point earlier in the season, we didn't even think that they might make the playoffs. That was actually a question at a certain point. With Janis... I'm at the point where it's kind of like, let's not overthink this. Yeah, exactly.

He's the best player on not only the best team in the league from a record standpoint, net rating-wise, they are historic in terms of like, if you look at certain teams, like an above-eight net rating is pretty rare, and they are one of those teams. He's also the best defender on the best defense, pretty good, especially when you compare him to Hardin, who is a fine defender, and he's the best offense on the third best offense. And he's also facilitating on a team that is now,

has risen above to finally make him what he can be at his best. Yeah, the full force of his, you know. Danny wrote a really good piece about Janus being, the chance that Janice has at being MVP and defensive player of the year, which I definitely recommend. And that hasn't been done. That's only ever been done twice in history. Yeah, and that's a big part of it.

I mean, I just don't think it says, we talk about this idea of Heisman moments. Right. It's something we've talked about all year. Janus just doesn't have as many. He hasn't played as often as Hardin. I looked it up. It's about 400 more minutes Hardin has played than Janus,

which you don't think about, but like you see Hardin more, and he's going to be doing things a lot more electrifying than Janus. Well, yeah, because it's like compare a dunk to like three threes in a row on three consecutive possessions. Yeah. I don't know. They really do kind of hit all the checkpoints of being sort of this

this difference in arguments, where it's like if you want the guy that sort of like put the team on his back like in a more evident way than you have hardened who's playing like you said 400 more minutes and sort of having to carry this team whereas if you want the guy who's just like been if extremely efficient and if he probably played more minutes like his numbers would be even bigger that's then yonis is your guy it's just so interesting to me like we always around this time i feel like we always have a conversation about like what your MVP sec p mvpick says about you or whatever And like, it's definitely about what you value and how you value it.

And I'm really honestly torn because, like, you're right. Like, in a way, Jan is very much like, we don't overthink and move. But there's something that's, to me, at least personally, very much appealing about the way Hardin plays and what he's done that makes it hard for me to ignore him. Yeah. And they have specific roles, too. Yeah. And that's where, like, this big nuance conversation comes in where it's like, well, you don't really need Hardin to be your best defensive player because he's doing so much offensively. That's the same as you don't need Yonnas to be hitting these threes.

I mean, it'd be great, but they surrounded. Right. They've surrounded, yeah. I mean, but not to the degree where, like, I wrote about Eric Bloodsoe as a podium guy. We're doing this series. It's like who's the, not the superstar is going to be at the podium, but if they yank a, if they yank, like someone who's a role player. And I wrote about Eric Blitz the other day, I think he's honestly more likely to take a major last minute shot in the playoffs than Janice. just because he will hit more shots.

You can shoot a three. And in clutch moments, they have been using him all season. And so Janus is not going to have those moments. That's fascinating because I think that's also, again, the divide between these two teams as these two players. One is a quote unquote big and the other is a wing

slash perimeter player. And like it really is aesthetically like, what do you value? You know, like how do you, how can you even compare them? That's a whole other situation, right? It's where you're talking about different situations. Whereas, like, Janus is like,

you can't even sort of factor in, like you said, sort of the clutch shots, if you will. But he does have clutch moments down the stretch where he just gets to the room because he can't at any point. But with Hardin,

you have these game winners. Like we're talking about the Heism moments that he's had in these sort of moments that are going to stick with us, you know, going forward. Yeah. And which is,

it brings me to the point where it's like, I don't want to be reductive and just be like, let's just give it to the best player and the best team. But at a certain point, there's just like, there's so many complicating factors that I have to, like, I have to make it easy for myself at some point.

And like, the easiest way to go about it is just to go with, like, how we've given this award out. In the past, before we give who we're picking here, because I think we're all kind of on the fence, is there anybody else that would be on your ballot or in the conversation here? I'll just give you the guys that I wrote down here. I pick Yokic as my third guy. Paul George is my fourth

Paul was like wincing I'm not even looking up in both other guys I listed Joam B'd Stefan Curry Kevin Durant I went with Yokic over George for two reasons

here George's raw statistics are insane he is averaging 28.2 points a game he leads the league in steals he's pretty much the reason why the Thunder

were in the conversation for the kind of like second best team in the West past 12, the thunder have been bad and George has been not particularly good. I know we've talked about him having an injury, but you kind of can't divorce that from

what's happening. Yokic, on the other hand, they're tied for first in the west right now. And he's just been a huge factor in that he's the same number of assists that's hardened. And if we're talking about just like historic seasons, like I look this up, the only guys that have had

20 points, 10 rebounds, and 7 assists are Wilt Chamberlain twice. Oscar Robinson's three times and Russ three times the past three seasons. So I think, I wonder if Yokish, you flashed back to two years ago and he would actually be the guy I would pick for that season if he had that. So I don't know. Do any of these people make a compelling pace? I think you have to mention them out of respect, but not for serious. Well, it's a two-man conversation.

But I think as far as like running out the rest of the ballot, like, I would still keep George third. I really think Embed, if we're going to think. about the MVP award in a way where it's like what guy when you remove him from the team it becomes a totally

different team and like they just need him so much so badly to even be the team they're supposed to be that I feel like Embed fits that

so much because once you know if he doesn't play or he's injured or whatever their threat level if you will goes down substantially

with the Sixers specifically so I would give him maybe a little more love than he's getting the Curry Durant thing is so hard because like they just

they're together so it's hard to pick either one of them. I feel bad sort of punishing them for that in a way, but it's just like it's hard when Curry maybe hasn't played. I mean, he's played 62 games, so it's not like he's missed a whole bunch of time. But yeah, I mean, that's actually a lot. And like, in my opinion, that's a lot.

Yeah. And then Embed's played 61. Right. So, yeah, I'm sure that also factors him. Yeah, the one thing with Curry, I was just going over the stats last night. His effective field goal percentage is basically the same as Janus's, which is insane.

It's basically like their shack but Curry is doing it from three point land. I don't know. If Curry had played enough games I think he would be right in the thick of things. It's always disappointing

because he just missed like 10 games and that was at the worst time of the season and so it really just knocks him off. If I were to pick a ballot just so I had those four guys, I would probably throw Curry in there over Durant

even though Durant's played almost 10 more games. I think the free agents thing and just how that's loomed over that team has to play a factor. Do you factor that? Like, I'm just wondering, you know, with somebody like Kyrie, for example, like him being this very mercurial figure.

Yeah, I think a little bit. I think in all NBA, I would. I think we hold it against Jimmy Butler. Like, at a certain point, we just like said... Yeah, and we were just like, Jimmy Butler doesn't exist this year. Those are pretty good. So I think a little bit. Would you guys? Yeah, I mean, you, it's...

it's part of this season, right, in a lot of ways. And if you can connect the dots and see how that's affecting a team or we're not, then, yeah, I feel like it's be hard to ignore. Right. It's like how it's affecting a team. I can be like, no, I only care about like P-U-R. With the robot maneuvers in the studio. I was trying to do robot hands in a lot.

That's great. All right. So circling back, who is on the top of your ballot? It's not even, I'm not on the fence like you guys. totally yonness. Hardin passes the eye test, like when I watch him, I'm like, God, this is incredible. This is historic. Like, I can tell this is something

that I will talk to my kids about as in, like, get off my fucking lawn. You have no idea. Like, I watch this. And I know, yeah, I can tell. Like, I know that I'm watching something historic and it's insane and incredible and he deserves a lot of kudos for that. But when I watch Yonis, like, that is the complete

eye test. And I'm not like super, I'm like pretty Mike Wilbonny Bill E like that I don't like analytics if we're like pitting their percentages against each other like that's if they're super close

that's like really not the deciding factor for me at all and Janice is just all the time passing the I test like every minute he's in the game and then when he's out of the game as well I mean it's just like no question to me he's completely

dominated not only the east, which is interesting because I would totally say that he's separated himself or that he's separated the team as the best. And also as the best going forward. And it's just exciting to see that this guy's like risen up and that his team's risen around him. But I mean, I don't know. I don't want to be all takey. But just given the state of the warriors and given what they've done, I think that they'll give them a serious. issue. I will say there's a sort of an argument that you could make that Janis is like a beneficiary of the

food and holes that are like revival of the bucks. But I would like my count is but it's like what he deserves, you know? Well, it's what he deserves. It's also like you still have to do it. Like you still have to put up those numbers. And it's not like Hardin is not in the system himself, right? Like that's another thing too. Granted for a period of time, he kind of just had to go out there and shoot the ball

a bunch of times, which you know. I also applaud him for that Because it's like Think about Ben Simmons won't even do it Because he's fucking embarrassed You know what I mean Like he knows he can't shoot

And yet But in the playoffs though Mike was But in the playoffs He's gonna whip it out But Mike was like Please like just try to shoot Everyone's shooting around you

And he said I have to do this to help the team And eventually I'm gonna have to learn how to shoot Mike Welbon No but my guy but just checking so wait who are you going with paul

i think everything makes sense about what you're saying oh i can see it coming he's the he's the sensible peg personally what i you're not sensible

no i'm not sure fine personally my deciding factor you know how you're talking about like not being like numbers not being your deciding factor whatever like my deciding factor is those things that we were just talking about like those kind of moments like what i'm going to remember

like five years that one. And to me, I'm going to remember that Hardin had this incredible stretch of 30-point games and also just like these 50-60-point performances. So that might give him the slight edge for me, but it's like very slim. You know, like I know that everyone's talked about this since whatever for like a decade, but there really should be a separate award for like, holy shit, the holy shit award. You know what I mean? And that should go to Hardin because it's just like look at what he's done. Yeah, it's almost like we should differentiate between like who's the best player and who like was the of the season.

Right. I don't know how you would define that. Right. I would go Janus for similar reasons to Haley. I think there's a possibility that will look back on this season and we'll see like what Steph Curry was in like 2013, 14 or like right before they really put it all together. And the bucks were like the next big thing in the NBA. Now it's disappointing because they've lost all these guys.

They're pretty much down to like clutch George Hill at a certain point just because like they're wing depth is now depleted. So it's disappointing going to the playoffs, but I think just in terms of a regular season, I think the season has been about the Bucks. It's been about Hardin as an individual, but the Bucks are the team. Yeah. I think that we'll all remember. But as we said before, there's still a few games left, and if you're the type of person

who needs those games, not us, the Rockets are still out there playing and Hardin can keep patting his stats. I think it's interesting if he does get over 37 points. He's at 36.4 right now. So, slim chance. I mean, I've read about it before, but that is, there has been Jordan and Chamberlain both did not win MVP. I mean, they did win MVP when they averaged over those, but they also did not certain years too. So the points thing, like that in history, that hasn't actually mattered every single time.

Right. Well, if you want to watch Hardin tonight, they're playing against the Rockets at 5 p.m. Pacific on NBA TV. That's a good matchup. I'm still curious about the nuggets as they go forward here. still have a little bit more to prove the rockets are pretty much just trying to feed Daniel Hals to the point where he becomes a playoff performer. But Hardin will, he's always good on the stage. And that's going to be our watch at the night for tonight.

That's Bobby's favorite segment. If you want to watch every NBA game, subscribe to NBA League Pass on NBA. On NBA.com or your local cable satellite or OTT provider. Pivoting off of MVP discussion, we have a few other ones that are kind of tangential. We did this piece last year where it's pretty much just the other awards to the non-traditional ones and one that I thought was interesting at the time

was the most with less. So basically the best player but the best player on a so-so team. It's pretty much the Anthony Davis Award because for five years it was basically like why can't they just give him more help even though they're playing better without him now so real ironic stuff.

Let's go, Haley. Who would you pick for this one this year? Well, I mean, we just were talking exactly about how Hardin kind of fit this. But I think that a team that's had even less help and has had less help for as long as Anthony Davis has been having this run, too, is Kimbo Walker. And he's not had quite the season Hardin's had, obviously. But I would still choose him. I think more because of the complete lack he's surrounded by. Second guy is Jeremy Lamb.

Okay. Yeah. So this is my favorite thing to do with the Horn. I do this often with people. Can you name the second best hornet? You think it's Lamb. It's Jeremy Lamb, yeah. Paul, who do you think of the second best hornet is right now?

I wish, I really wish I could say Malik Monk, but that's not the case. No, it's definitely not. Definitely not the case. Yeah, Jeremy Lamb. I think, so I've looked this up statistically. It's actually Cody Zeller, if we're going specifically by net rating. He's not even playing right now because I think he's hurt. Third is Dwayne Bacon.

So, like, Bizarro, Malik Monk. Dwayne Bacon had 24 the other night against his first. What stat are you saying? I think net rating. Net rating? Net rating? Oh, I see. These guys actually have better net ratings than Kemba, which, I mean, net rating gets really...

Right, with individual players. It's tough. It's a little tough. And then Marvin Williams is third. So, all right, second game I want to play with the Hornets. Another of my personal favorites. Can you name the Hornets starting lineup in their most recent game? Okay.

Kemba? Kemba. Jeremy Lamb. No. He's an... Oh, this man. So they have... Wow, I messed up that quick.

They went youth pretty recently. and so they've tried to like work some of these guys. So bacon, monk. Bacon is starting at the two. Monk is not good. Bridges. Great. Frank Kaminsky.

Nope. Come on. Although Frank's numbers have been good recently. Check out my guy. What a sentence? What do you mean like good? I don't know. Like passable.

Define good. He's probably like five minutes. I have no idea anybody else under like. So Marvin Williams. But isn't that? Bismack. Bismack beyond Bo. The Big Mac.

And yet. What's funny is I think this is like the G-League version of like a progressive 2019 lineup. You have like some stretchy guys. You guys who could theoretically shoot. You have like some positional flexibility. Beyond those are your shop locker. It's like it's basically like low rent Houston Rockets. Real low rent.

Right. Right. Right. But yeah. It tastes a little funny, but. We're going to just get through it. You're on a budget. Right.

It has ice cream, so there's a lot to be gained there. Is it? Burfties? I never had it before. It's literally called thrifties. I used to have it as a kid. It was pretty good. It's a good point.

I never thought about that. It's called thrifties. You want to eat ice cream called thrifties? I'm just saying it's not, it's good. We're never going to get ready to as a sponsor now. Yeah, I think I picked Chamba too. It's just the points that he's basically second or third team all NBA sort of guy. And like, he's carrying this team.

They've won their past four. They beat the spurs in overtime. There's just a lot to like about there. Do you have anybody else you want to throw there? Well, Hardin's the answer. But as far as somebody else, I don't know if I'm allowed to do this, but can I give this to the whole team, like the Pacers? I feel like they've just done the most with the less.

Like watching them a little bit against the Thunder last night. You're like, who is supposed to like kind of carry this team right now? And somehow like they're the Celtics last year. Yeah, that's a good company. But yeah, yeah, that's true. But even then they still had probably like guys like Tatum who sort of had that, I don't know, that mentality of being like. And I just don't, I don't know who that guy is on the Pacers, which is fine. I mean, there's still the fourth season.

Can I tell you who that guy is? Are you going to say Miles Turner? No, I'm going to say Boyan Bogdanovich. Yeah, that's true. Old Jason Tatum is how I refer to him. Since Victor Oladipo went out, because I have enlisted here, 21.3 points, 50, 40, 80 shooting. 4.2 rebounds. The paces are 13.

50, 40, 80. Yeah. Pretty good. If you would have read my article, could I add in there. You know, you know I don't listen. I just lays over staff.

Right, right. I have a Google Chrome login that just blurs them out. Love a staff locker. Apollo did write about him on the site. Another guy we have as a podium guy. I think he fits this perfectly. Other guys I listed Blake Griffin.

That's a good one. But he has some other players on his team. Drummond has been a little bit better. Smith is a god. I love his shit. And Luke Canard Paulo's favorite player. Oh gosh.

Another guy I wrote down here Lori Markinen only played 52 games and I don't know if you saw this yesterday. They shut him down for extreme fatigue which is pretty hilarious considering that Jim Boydman's whole thing is he's just like running people into the ground.

I feel like we're going to look back in this year like talk to Larry in like five years and it's like the mental duress of that year. Did he do the most though? I mean, he had the least, but did he do the most? Probably not, but he's had a good season. Vujovich does another one I'll throw out there. Vucevich is also going.

So you guys are going hard in? Yeah. Yeah, for that one specifically, yeah, for sure. I mean... I almost wonder if he has too much, though. Too much help? Yeah. I mean, he does play with a guy named Chris Ball.

You were just talking about Daniel House. Do we say Daniel or is it Daniel? Donio. I think I like saying Dunneal. I thought is Daniel. Oh, it might be Daniel. Maybe. I don't really watch games.

He has Capella in a way too. And like Chris Paul has been out back. So it's a big three. Kemba as we're not watching these players only. You're not listening to the players only? No. No, I think Kemba might be the right pick. I honestly, when they do the post game like walk off interview,

I have to mute it immediately because I get so like, you know that when you're watching a movie and it's like an embarrassing moment. I can't watch those because it just like it gnaws at me. Like secondhand embarrassment? Yeah. From those? Yeah. Why?

Because they're just like, there's such. stupid questions. And there's such stupid, pointless answers. I can't do it anymore. It's like, yeah, you could literally just make it up.

You can probably get, because it's always like one of five things. Yeah. It's just so cring. What was going through your mind when you took that last shot? And like,

it's a tough job. I was just thinking we got to win, man. It's a tough job. It's a team effort. Like, I don't know what you ask in those situations where you can get a good answer. It's a really hard job.

It's a game by game. Sometimes they'll go like, they'll just take it with the defense. Mention a specific scheme and, you know, why you switch to that, but unless you're like interviewing the coach, and unless that coach is not grumpy

and or Greg Popovich, you won't usually get a good answer. Brad Stevens gives good answers. Yeah, very thorough. And they're specific. Yeah. That's nice. He just seems like a nice guy.

Nice guy, Brad Stevens. Group chat only. Tough time for him. Let's get that going. Jesus. All right. Let's try to... Group chat only.

That would be terrible. We should just... That would be awful. We should just have on the site just like the group chat between Haley and Polo as they're watching games. I was honestly like, I want to do a live reading of our actual group chat, of our actual texts back and forth because like there's some bizarre and brave takes. Yeah. Far braver than we will ever bring to this table. Between the blue bubbles.

Like, whew. We're always looking for content, guys. All right. let's hit this one last one kind of tangential to MVP right before we go to this break. This is called the best player in the world belt. Now, it was way more relevant when it seemed like LeBron was the best player in the world, or at least that's how we described him, even though he did not have the best individual season. Now it's a little bit more muddled.

LeBron, as we'll get to later, might very well be washed. I'm literally going to tear up right now. I can, like, feel it coming on. This is so embarrassing. but it's not LeBron. Yeah. It's just not LeBron this season. Oh, fuck.

I like am going to start tearing up. It's Kevin Durant. Are you actually? Yeah. I love him. This is my childhood. But, yeah. It's like, I'm tearing up.

That's great. It's Kevin Durant. Like, you watch him the last like two games. On group chat. I would, I would, I thought I was going to be the one with the Kevin Durant answer. I know because you guys know me, but it is. Like, you watch him. He can totally, he can just totally dominate to go over a game.

Like, absolutely nobody else can. Yeah, it's Kevin Grant. I mean, there's just his natural advantages, like, for his position. And that puts him over Hardin for me. And there's his experience, and that puts him over Janus for me. I think that it could very well be Janus and, like, you know, it could switch to Janus way faster than it's going to switch from LeBron's reign. nobody's going to hold that title as long as LeBron has for a very long time. Yeah, the talent around the league is too good for that.

It's too good. It's too spread out. Maybe this next year we will feel foolish for ever saying this and LeBron will come back. And, you know, there's a lot of, if he has more around him and he doesn't have to play. I mean, that's the thing is he has to do so much and he's just older than these guys. He's just older and he's more worn down and he's had to play the most minutes in the league last year. and in the playoffs. Whereas Durant,

I think they've sort of been limiting his minutes lately, and he's only, I think he's taking like 16 shots in last games and he's missed like one or two of them. He's got Clay Thompson next to him. Like, yeah. He has the opportunity to do more in the minutes

because he doesn't have to stretch himself so thin. Yeah. But yeah, it's Kevin. Yeah, Durant, um, his numbers, his raw production has taken a little bit of a hit,

but efficiency-wise, I think he's, uh, just as like, he's having a second best shooting. He's missed two shots over the last two games. Which is insane. especially coming off of his recent injuries.

And, you know, I really, I don't think that, not to like keep going on about the numbers thing, but I really don't think that his number should factor in as much as maybe for any other player, simply because he plays with one of the best players in the league. Right. A top five player right next to him. The way I look at this one where it's like, okay, who's the best player, I factor in a little bit of, like, projection, if you will, because you watch them play and you see who is going to stop this guy in, like, a setting where they do have to go. all out and play 40 minutes.

And it's like there's nothing that anybody can do to stop. Yeah. I guess the counterpoint there, and I don't necessarily disagree, is just even though Durant has been the most dominant player in the past two finals, it still feels like the Warriors are Steph Curry's team. And it feels weird to give that sort of distinguishment to like someone who's maybe not the most important player on his own team. It's interesting because, you know, when he went, something that he said was that he,

the start of the season afterwards was that he didn't want to be the guy. And then I think a lot of the reports around him being unhappy and Golden State wanting to leave are that he's upset that this isn't his team. I think that Durant's mentality is really complicated. And he's had a complicated time dealing with his public image ever since he left OKC.

But, you know, that was very much by design. He went to Golden State because he didn't have to be the guy. And he was tired of doing that. And he said that. And then he's, like, surprised that he's not. Yeah, it's weird. I think it's one thing maybe to say it and to kind of want to take the back seat to be the ball movement guy to be the team guy. But then you have all these competing forces saying, like, you are the best player in the world.

Which, by the way, yeah, he's, I mean, I mean, the most fun thing to watch him is his scoring. But he's also, like, a really good facilitator for them. And the defender. Yeah. Good defensive player. He does everything. I mean, great defensive player. I do think.

it is interesting that he could be on if he was on any other team I don't think I think this would be more obvious maybe why like that he is the best player in the NBA and that's a thing that's probably I don't know if he's thinking this and this is why he may want to leave it you know

but but it's very much like this is the very specific situation where you are the best player in the league but you might not be the best player on your team which is so weird well I think also a factor is like it's hard for me to say this about a professional athlete

because it makes me sound like a jackass but like he doesn't have the fire some guys have. He doesn't have the fire that Peek LeBron had. Oh God, past tense.

It's hard. But like imagine if he had Russ's mentality in his body with his skill set. I think we've seen that. He just saves it for the very important moment. You see that? But it's not all the time.

And Russ's mentality is all the time. I don't mind that as much. Like I don't think we can sort of, not the man, but like sort of expect these guys to be like Russell Westbrook level of like... No, you can't, but it makes them harder to choose as the definitive best person.

And also that's why there's the complication with Steph being the best player on his team. But Steph isn't like that all the time either. You know, he's not like super, you know, whatever you're describing. I think what I'm just trying to say is that he's not dominant all the time, so it's not an obvious answer. Right. And my point is like maybe I think that's more the context, right? Which is like if that's why, like, I'm very excited to probably see him on another team. Yeah.

To see what, you know, how that sort of goes. With someone who's still skilled and still can, you know, put up numbers alongside him like Kyrie, but it's very clearly not as good as he is. Yeah, the only other guy I would put up here would just be Hardin. I think that's the distinguishment I would make between Janus being MVP and Hardin having such like a dramatic effect on this season. It does feel like he is the player of the moment. And he's another guy, I think if we're looking back five years from now, which I think is an interesting way to kind of look at these sort of award races,

he's now had two number two finishes in the MVP or ballots and he's one-on-one. I think there's a, like, we could look back a couple years for now and say, and say it was really disrespectful. Yeah. And he's basically like prime Kobe.

Like, this is Hardin's prime Kobe years. I did think about that. Kobe was good, man. No, he was, but he was never the best player in the league. At what point was he ever the best player in the league? The best player? The best player. He probably had the best player.

if we're making different distinguishments. Yeah. I think like he definitely had a belt for a few years. What years was he the best player? I don't know. I'd have to go back and do the research. Don't put me on the spot. All right.

We're going to take a quick break and then we're going to get back to some of the other words, including rookie of the year. Today's Ringer MBA show is brought to you by Stitch Fix. Stitch Fix is an online personal styling service that finds and delivers clothes, shoes and accessories to fit your body, budget, and lifestyle. I was online the other day. I didn't have my ad blocker set up and all of a sudden I saw Stitch Fix show up and I saw these clothes and I was like, oh, those are pretty nice. Maybe I should check those out. I went to the site. It was a really easy sign-up experience and I can't wait to get my Stitch Fix box sent to me. Stitch Fix can help you

find your new favorite piece of clothing. Just go to Stitchfix.com slash MBA and tell them your sizes what styles you like and how much you want to spend on each item. You'll be paired with your very own personal stylist who will handpick five items to send right to your door, then try them on, pay only for what you love, and return the rest. Shipping, exchanges, and returns are always free. There's no subscription required. You can sign up to receive scheduled shipments or get your fix whenever you want. Stitchfix's styling fee is only 20 bucks, which is applied toward anything you keep from your shipment. Get started now at stitchfix.com slash MBA and you'll get an extra 25% off when you keep all five items in your box.

That's stitchfix.com slash MBA to get started today. Stitchfix.com slash MBA. Today's show is also sponsored by ADT. Real Protection. When it comes to something as important as your family's safety, you deserve real protection from ADT. Real protection means the nation's number one smart home security provider is standing by and there for you when you need them.

Real protection means having a safe and smart home with everything from video doorbells, surveillance cameras, smart locks, lights, carbon monoxide, and smoke detectors in a system that's custom designed to fit your lifestyle. In setting up custom automations to do things like lock the doors and set the thermostat when you leave, rear protection means staying safe on the go, in the car, or when your kids are at school, with the ADT Go app and SOS button. Rear protection means 18,000 employees safeguarding you. Rear protection means direct connections with first responders. No matter how you define safety for you, your family, or your business, 8,000.

ADT is there. ADT, real protection. Visit ADT.com slash podcast to learn more about how ADT can design and install a secure smart home just for you. Okay, before we move on, Bobby did mention 0506, and I think that might be the one I'd concede on. He led him points. With Kobe.

Kobe. Yeah. It's more of like Hardin's reign now or even Stephs. But he'd be more hardened. Yeah. Listen, I don't want to be a Kobe apologists. but it's the sort of, it's the mellow thing where it's like the long where you get away from his peak, we start to view it a little bit more gloomily, I guess.

But that's fair. I'll take five, six. Yeah. It was probably shorter than like, like, Zellet Lager fans would like it to be. I guess that would be kind of the fair interpretation. Sure, sure. All right, let's go to Rookie of the Year, probably the other most hotly contested one. Yeah, because it's, this is. Yes, it is because, like, people are directly.

on every, like, there are two sides. Yeah, so this is a two-man race yet again. Luca and Trey. Luca has been good pretty much all season. Trey had a pretty rough start to his career, including November where he shot below 20% from three. Trey is the Donovan this year. I think that's a great comparison.

And Luca's the Simmons, except for, well, no, I mean, he actually has had years under his... I mean, Luca has dropped off. He has experienced just like... Luca has dropped off shooting-wise, I think. He's had a couple of bad. shooting once. And so, and that's happening as the same,

around the same time as Trey has really put his game together and sort of been having this like 30 point tennisist game. So it's been an interesting sort of juxtaposition, I think, in that sense. Right. Overall, though, the numbers are pretty similar. Luca, 69 games played, 21.7 rebound, six assists. Still negative net rating,

which goes to show you like when everyone wants a rookie to come in and contribute right away to winning basketball. Pretty much never happens. I don't know why I said that, but that's a side change for you in case you're wondering. Trey Young, 18.9 points, 3.6 rebound. 7.9 assists, which is fourth in the NBA. That's obviously one of his big advantages over Luca

and a minus 5.8 net rating. I think the big thing here is also just the team perspective. The MAV started off hot. We thought they might be a potential playoff team before they tore things down, added Christopold. Brazingus and basically just punted the season. It's interesting that Luca's stats pre-trade and post-trade

are pretty interesting, but as you guys were referring to, just the efficiency is down. The raw production is up probably because he's getting more opportunities. There really isn't anyone competing for those anymore. It's pretty much just like him and Trey Burke, just like going to war. Not that fun to watch, but, you know, Luca has some moments. Efficiency-wise, though, he is down, including 3.5%.

Is that 29% since the trade? 67% from the free throw line, which is pretty alarming for a guy who's going to make his career off of his shooting for the most part. Trey, on the other hand, since the All-Star break, which is only 17 games, he's just been insane. 25.8 points, 4.9 rebounds. Nine assists, which is incredible. 45, 40, 87 shooting and a 2.9 net rating. The Hawks in particular have been really good.

And so I wonder how much we're kind of swayed by how well the Hawks are playing and how much credit we should give Trey for that. Do you guys have any strong feelings on that? I think Paulo does more than I do. No, no. I mean, I think it's interesting to note that at the beginning of the season, Luca was playing with, you know, like a decent group of guys like Harrison Barnes and DeAndre Jordan. So he had like a better team around him where I was like, Tray was playing, you know, with this group of young guys that the Hawks are trying to sort of build around. And Luca was coming in sort of with his expectations because he sort of met them and like really,

like went above and beyond. He became very quickly like the guy or whatever. And I do think that maybe the Hawks second half success is something that's factoring into how we were talking about this

because, but at the same time in the end, like when we look back at other rookie of the year awards and whatnot, like sometimes it's just been like most of the time it's been good numbers

on a team that, you know, like you said, rookie doesn't impact winning that much. Right. I do think, Trey has impacted

winning in the second half a good bit, just because of the way he's heeded everything around like with the team just specifically with his passing. And that I think has sort of giving them a very bright future or a glimpse of what that future could look like. Right. I mean, it's this first year and there's already kind of like a system in place that that is thriving or that is showing, you know, positive signs. Right. And you spent some time around the team recently.

I think we're fine saying. Yeah. It seems that way like that the guys kind of feed off of him. Is that fair to say? Yeah, no, definitely. I mean, I think there's a very interesting thing where he sort of takes more pride in setting people up than in necessarily scoring himself, which is interesting when you think about how he was perceived in college as kind of this Steph Curry model. But he really just enjoys the fact that he can playmate for teammates.

And really, that's what the Hawks are valuing, value in him more and what they want to build on. So, you know, it looks very, I don't know, positive, I guess, in that sense. Right. And even though that is not what we think of with Steph, like that kind of joy that spreads from him is also very stuff-like. Definitely. I guess the point here is, I mean, he's eighth among Hawks in net rating even during their big stretch, which is like they're eight and nine, which is pretty incredible. That's pretty much like they're the nets, which who are. They are the baby nets for sure. They are.

So I don't know. I go back to the fact that Luca has been pretty consistent throughout, which is tough, as we've said, constantly just as a rookie or just like any player. And it really is just like his context has changed. So I don't know how much I would fault him for that. For me, it's pretty simple. Luca, I mean, Tray deserves a lot of credit for everything that you just had, Paulo. But Luca just transcends being a rookie.

And that's the rookie of the year for me. Team success, just inherently by the nature of rookie of the year, because these top draft picks go to bad teams, typically. winning hasn't mattered as much in the past. You know, you can think about the Wiggins and Carlinet Towns years. Right. But, yeah. What years they were.

Right. Exactly. But it's, it's Luca for me just because he simply transcends being a rookie. Yeah, it's interesting. This might be one of the best rookie year races we've ever had just because these two guys, not only putting up numbers, but having a dramatic impact on the shape of the season.

I don't know. I would lean Luca for the reasons that we kind of described. here. Paul, are you going Trey? Sure. Yeah. And you're going Luca, Haley. I do think it's interesting just because if Luca and Trey weren't here, I think D'Andre Aiton would have a really good shot

at this. He's put up big numbers for, again, a pretty bad son's theme. The inconsistency is just too much to overlook. Yeah, and I also think that we do knock him for the defense more than we would Trey, just because a big needs to be a better defender than Trey, who, like,

even at his best is probably going to be the best. stealing is so much shorter if you can't play defense as a big than it is a guard. True. There are many guards right now. I do think, though, that it is interesting. Not that we need to like nitpick rookies, but all three of these guys have defensive while, you know, maybe need to make defensive improvements for it, you know, in some way or form. Because right now we're focusing very much on what they can do on offense.

Defense is so two years ago, man. I mean, hey, I would love to live in that world, but that's just not the case. Yeah, right. Okay. I think that's interesting. also think what I have down here is which rookie would you rather have five years from now? Okay, not to be a hater, but it's Luca. Like, just because the style that Trey plays, this, like, aspiring Steph Curry style,

in both the sense that he, you know, we think of him as a shooter. We've thought of him, like, in that sense since college and the facilitation will continue to enter this league. They're going to be a lot of people trying to be Trey Young. And, like, kids are growing up right now. and that's the style they're playing. I don't know if you guys have any young siblings and you go to their games,

but are cousins. You guys don't have young siblings. But, I mean, kids are growing up and they're going to continue to play that style, whereas, like, Luca is such an anomaly already, and we'll just continue to be that five years from now. I mean, think about how professional he looks right now. You know, he just, he came in and he was NBA ready

five years from now. He's going to dominate. We're going to be saying, like, wow, I can't believe he's only, however old he is. I do think we sometimes assume that development is linear, whereas they're going to just keep getting better. And that's not always the case.

You know, I think one example we could talk about is Jason Tatum, and sort of we expected him to take another small leave this year, and he's sort of been kind of up and down. But in general, I agree with you. I mean, he came into the NBA, so NBA-ready because he was, you know, playing at a high level when you're up to. but I'm very curious to see how him and Port Senghis fit and what the Mazz want to do with them

because I think if you just straight up tell me which one would you rather have it'd be hard not to say Luca but if you talk about the context and the situations of either team I do like what the Hawks are building in terms of the style they want to play and sort of the types of players who want to get in there. That's true I will add though that the Mavs have no problem getting rid of what doesn't work and like Luca is very clearly

their guy. Yeah I think team context plays a big point factor in this. And I think the Mavs, not only do they have Christops, but I wonder what they're going to do in free agency, because if they forego their pick this year and then give that to the Hawks as a result of that tri-young trade, maybe they go big game hunting. I mean, we just did a piece Kevin O'Connor did about Kemba Walker. And one of the things he dropped in there is that like a lot of teams expect the Mavs to go hard after Kemba. And so now I wonder, yes, he fits with Luca. And I think they put together a really good team with Kemba, Luca, and Christops. But are you diminishing Luca and not really giving him. Yeah, man, I just want them to get another guy on the wing.

Yeah, they just need a better wing to pair, you know, to have that sort of bigish three, if you want to call it that. And that's the thing. It's like, I mean, granted, from talking to the Hawks, you sort of get what their plan is and you get a sense of how they want to be patient, but also like what they're building and think that has got a bright future. So I don't know, I can't speak for the Mavs, I guess, in that sense. But I do think the Hawks are, maybe more, are built to be more patient and sort of, like, take very specific care of the way they're rebuilding your team. It's supposed to the Mavs, I could see being like, let's win now. Right. Yeah, and I think that they are. I just had a thought.

Imagine if they got Clay Thompson. The Mavs? Yeah. Well, that would be awesome for them, but he's living. Well, I mean, depends on how he feels about no state taxes, you know? True. Yeah, I look at this kind of, like, one, I want, like, where the game is going. I think both guys really fit that.

And also whose game is kind of recession proof in a way. And it seems like Luca, regardless of the context you're throwing him in, is going to be very good. I do wonder, on the flip side to what we were just talking about with Luca, like with Trey, he gets a guy who's a little bit more ball dominant. Maybe Zion gets in there. Like, are you turning the team over to Zion? And Trey is kind of off the ball more. He's more like running around screens.

I think that's like something that he could do. But then like you're changing him in a little way. So it'll be interesting to go forward. I think the other guy that I would throw out here is just Jared Jackson Jr. It has season cut short, 58 games this year, but he seemed to be like the prototypical big for the future of the NBA. I don't think he'll ever get the same sort of celebrity that Luca or Trey will get just because of the way he plays.

But I just think everything he does fits the modern NBA. Team situation is really a bummer there going forward. That's the other big thing. They're probably going to lose Mike Conley eventually. Now it might mean more opportunities for him and maybe he can grow as an offensive. a player, maybe like he gets a little bit more kind of a face-up game or like ball handling to throw in there to go

with what is essentially like a three and D center position at this point. But we'll see. Marvin Bagley also another guy and like pretty much like we were talking about all rookie teams yesterday, Paul and I were in the office, which is a really cool thing to talk about on a Wednesday.

It's packed this year because if you talk about the three guys we talked about for rookie the year, Luca Trey and DeAndre Aiton, and then you throw in Bagley and Jack Jackson, like, that's probably one of the best five who's had in, like, a really long time. Yeah, it's a really good class. And then the guys that you're leaving out, if you wanted to knock Bagley and Jackson because of their games played, you have the two Clippers. Yeah, we had to talk about them because, like, they've been really good.

Right. They are on a playoff team, which, you know, that's not all due to them directly, but they have a hand in that. Which, it's been really good. And SGA has sort of like leveled off in the second half, but he's still starting and sort of carrying that, not carrying that team, but, being their point card. Yeah, he's shooting 42% from three, which is tied for 14th. I expected it to be higher, to be honestly.

I can see Shama being one of those guys who, when we look back at this draft, we're like, oh, he's taking him with a 26 pick. Yeah, he's just... You know, like, it was ridiculous. I think we can already say that in a lot of ways. Yeah. And then SGA doesn't have the numbers per se,

but he started 66 games, which is pretty incredible for a rookie on a playoff team. Like, I can't remember the last time that's happened, especially considering how much he handles the ball and how big he is on defense for that team. Yeah. All right, let's move on. Most improved player.

Kevin O'Connor wrote about this on the Ringer the other day. I think he did an interesting job of just like pretty much breaking down the possible candidates based on how we perceive the awards. This is another one where it's kind of like I of the beholder. Like what do you really value and what does this award mean to you? I think there's a pretty clear winner here. Do you guys, Pascal? Our guy, Pascal?

Yeah, it has to be. Paula? he's in a lot of ways the easy choice too. And like the same way like Janus makes a lot of sense. I think Pascal fits that bill because he he's not just improving his numbers. He's taken on a bigger role, which I think plays into it. Yeah. But this is not in any way a knock to the other two guys that you suggested.

Deer and Fox and Buddy healed because they've been incredible. But it's just that I think that this does factor in with like Raptor's success because he's had such a hand in it. Yeah, I mean, especially with all the injuries. You can say with the same for those two on the Kings, but the Raptors are like the second best team in the East. Yeah, and they've had all these injuries. They've been shuffling Kauai in the lineup, depending on his rest days.

Kyle Lowry has been just banged up a bunch of times, especially when certain Knicks go, like, fall on him and he has to miss a few games. Yeah, Pascal, it's just, I think this is a surprise factor. Like, I've never seen a rookie, or excuse me, a guy, a third-year guy just kind of make this big of a leap and you just didn't see it coming?

Like with Buddy, he was a lottery pick and we thought even though he struggled at times, especially in New Orleans, like we kind of knew that he had the pedigree whereas Pascal just kind of not only came out of nowhere, but he took two years to get there. Like last year we were talking about him specifically only in the context

as LeBron James Chum. Well, you know who his trajectory reminds me of is Quay Leonard. Yeah. Yeah. It really does. And, like, the surprise factor and that his defense has been solid from the start. And then we just have seen this insane offensive growth. I mean, it really reminds me of him. And honestly, like, then you heard the talk where it's like the Raptors shouldn't even be that bummed out if they lose Kwai because they have a baby Kwai on their team.

Those Raptors fans, they're on one. That's the pivot you're going to have to make if he goes. It's like, oh, yeah, it's all good. We have a mini Kauai right here. scale. Yeah, there you go. It is interesting how much like he handles the ball for that team. Like just because he's like a, he's like a giant He's like mini Janus in a little way where it's like

This big old guy is just like kind of breaking down the defense and running the fast break. It's really incredible to watch. Pascal needs to get in the gym. We're gonna see a lot of it. We're gonna see like gym shots over the summer for sure. What specifically do you think he needs to work on? Like his core? His delts? No, no, no, I'm just saying like you could see a type you know how Janis turned from like it's like scrawny kid to like now this beast like I think that's sending out shoulders. Yeah that's what Pascal is going to hit. Shoulders.

Pascal must improve. Get that George Hill workout. Is it turning into a rhinocilipot? Yeah, just quickly on the other two guys. Dier and Fox, there's this thing that people have against second year leaps where they pretty much discount them because Fox has the elite pedigree.

He was I think drafted fifth or something. you kind of expect a guy to struggle in his rookie year and then figure out in the second year and so they automatically disqualify him. His leap is just so vast that it's so great that I think that that just doesn't count for him. He did improve things that you wouldn't expect him to approve on as well. His three-part percentage has become legitimate.

Like I think that's pretty much opened up their entire team. Yeah, because people, I mean, he was being called Russ. Yeah, and so the other big thing is just like the speed that they're playing at. And no, I do wonder like... It's a system change that also has helped. with both him and he holds the game. So how much do we credit him for that? Just being used better.

Right. And I guess that's what I was saying with you honest earlier. It's like even if the system changes. I don't think that should count against the guy. No, no, no. That's what I'm saying. Even if the system changes, you still have to go out of there and do it.

You're just fighting against less things so you can be the best version of yourself. Yeah. Wow. This turned into a TED talk really fast. This is a really emotional. I'm captioned material. I hate that. The other guys that I listed here were Monty Morris for them or Nuggets.

It's a loaded category. It is. DeAngelo Russell, who I think is going to get a lot more love than perhaps we gave him, just considering his breakthrough this year. His breakthrough, the net success. Yep. Although, I will say, I saw the Nets play the Lakers last week. I was at that game.

And it's funny, like, he is legit. And he definitely went right at, like, the Lakers when that got a little heated at the end. But on defense, like, I was watching him as he went back down the floor. You can see him thinking about what he wants to do on offense, the next possession. while he's on defense. It's like you could see the gears turning in his head. It's really fun to watch. Loves the hoop.

Loves to hoop. Just like Paulo. DeMasabonis, Montreselle, Montreal. Montres. Montres. I never get that right. God damn it. Montrez.

Montrearrel. And Janus took a big leap. Oh, right. That's crazy that he could. You could make a case for a most improved MVP and defensive player of the year. This is the Steph thing. We used to always say, like, Steph took huge leaps during those two MVP years. And, like, if you go by the definition of Most Improve, he has improved the most.

Let's do the flip side of Most Improved now. My personal favorite, which is Most Washed. Oh, my God. I'm going to go first here because I don't know. This one is particularly juicy. I have Rajan Rondo. By the way, this is a loaded field. I just kind of went through all of the bad players in the NBA.

my list is like 12 deep at this point. Solomon Hill is one of that list? That's a personal like deep cut right there for you. Listen, I love Solomon Hill. I think he's like literally one of my favorite guys in the league and this pains me to say it. But that team sucks right now and he's not even getting on the floor. He's played four games since the All-Star Break. There's no reason why he shouldn't be playing.

But that was one of the worst contracts signed in the league and Delt Demp's no longer with us as a result of that. Rajan Rondo, on the other hand, though, minus 7.2 net reading. This is a really bad team, and yet somehow he is the worst player on a bad team. The only players with the worst rating are Reggie Bullock and Mike Muscala, two of their, like, key pickups at the trade deadline, both of whom did not work whatsoever. Good work. And our guy, ring her favor, Mo Wagner.

Pretty bad and defensively, as I was talking to people around that team when I was at the game the other day, just like, it's hard to pretend like he's even passable on defense anymore. And that was kind of like the unspoken secret with the Pelicans. Like, yeah, some of the numbers may look okay. But like, if you watch Rondo in the game, he's like totally washed on Devens. It's just based on reputation. I still think like he's, he's right on a good team. And I definitely wish he had stayed in New Orleans just to see that situation through just based on all the success they had in the playoffs. But he is washed. He'd have so much less on him next to Drew, too. Yeah, Drew is a monster. He did. I mean,

We can't ignore the fact that all of his flaws and or aging has been highlighted this year, but the fact that he's on the Lakers who need him to be old Ray John. Yeah. That's what I'm going to say. The Lakers mess is like highlighted or accentuated his own, you know, deficiencies and whatnot. So he's, I think it's maybe that's a good candidate for sure. For me, it's Isaiah Thomas, which is really sad because this category can be hilarious. But that's, I mean, it's just really sad.

But it's completely him. He's virtually unplayed. Yeah, that's a rough one. Yeah, it's tough and it's sad. They basically, they had to take them out of the lineup, but they tried it for a little bit. It just didn't work. And I don't know where he goes from here.

I don't think there is an option. No, I don't know. Unless Orlando, like, is desperate for a point. But even Michael Carter Williams, I don't know if you guys have seen. Pretty good. Like, pretty good. I'm not kidding.

Anything could happen in like a 10-day contract. No, he's been okay. Orlando about to make the playoffs, baby. All right, Paula, who do you have? I would, no, see, I can't see Dirk because, like, you can't say Dirk because even though... No, he's washed. He should not be playing. Yeah, but there is an endearing wash, if you will.

It's like, it's a perm press? Yeah, exactly, exactly. It's not really like a true, true wash situation. I mean, maybe it is, but... Because also he's supposed to be washed. Yeah, that's the thing, too, is like... Whereas, like, Rondo and IT are not supposed to. Like, I'm all for it.

I guess Dirk might have gone through the spin cycle last year. That's when he entered into the wash zone. Right. Whereas now it's very clear. But like I said, it's endearing because it's like you're just on your way out. He's a mascot. Basically is what you're saying. I don't want to put that word on it, but sure.

Yeah. The other guys I listed here, Christiano Felicio, you were talking about yesterday. Again, another guy who cannot get on the court, even though his team is terrible. Solomon Hill Avery Bradley who had a little bit of a moment with the Grizzlies

and played a little bit better but I think overall he's probably not full wash but he's definitely like teetering on the washed line

Paugasol and LeVron Jesus Christ all right we're moving on that's so disrespectful and the two guys that don't

that don't really count at Martian Gortat and Carmell Anthony both of whom are no longer in the league so I don't even think they count

they have since been washed and surprisingly not washed as I jotted down Vince Carter I would also go doing away Not washed?

No. Yeah, that's a good one. Not washed. He could play like three more years. He keeps saying that. Like, three is a little much. No, he could play three more years. I've never seen a player who's so good at being his own publicist than Dwayne Wade.

He's like coming up with T-shirts with like Leisure Report about his like retirement tour. Yeah. And he's just like quite the operation. I mean, he's trading jerseys every game. I love it. The hair change. It's, you know. Go out on top with a hairline.

Still intact. There you go. That's what we'll remember most about him is his strong hairline. All right. The other one that we did here in kind of the other awards zone is the Skeleton Key Award. So it's the player who kind of unlocks everything for your team. Similar, I guess, no, not necessarily most improved. It's its own thing.

I guess PJ Tucker is the prime example of this last year, a guy who, If they didn't have him in there being able to play center, kind of being able to switch on to a bunch of guys, being the defensive force that he is, you wouldn't probably have the same success around Hardin. The guy I have here is Brooke Lopez, I think is an interesting one, just because, like, it allows Janus pretty much...

You could pick a couple guys on that team. You could. I think Brooke in particular, he was kind of the one that unlocked Janus' full potential, not only on defense where he's kind of that big body that allows Janus to freelance. in a lot of ways that Miritich allowed Anthony Davis to freelance last year. I just think, and offensively...

Yeah, if he wasn't able to get out of the way on offense, it'd be a completely different team. Right. We would probably spend most of the first half of this season harping on Janus's lack of a jump shot. Instead, we kind of allowed him to figure that out on the fly. And now he's at a point where it's respectable. Brooke also pretty much like...

He'd gone from Wash Zone with the Lakers where everyone goes to be... washed to a guy who's revived his career and looks like he could play a couple more years simply just by being giant and standing there and shooting threes. Some of the other guys I had down here, JJ Redick, just as like the fifth guy on that offense, although you could argue that maybe he's like the problem on defense. Right, right. So I don't know if that one fits Nikola Wusovic.

It's an all-star man. Can't get him the skeleton key. Fringe. Yeah, it gets into the zone where it's like, do you really want to reward like, the best player on the team too is the guy who unlocks it because I also have Rudy Gobert down here and he really unlocked that entire defense and Justice Winslow

another guy, he's hurt recently but they pretty much had him as a point guard and he's kind of like no point guard lineups that they're throwing out there in Miami. Patrick Beverly fits this a little bit. That's a good one. That's a good one. It's not just statistical wise or whatever

but he's also like he brings a certain level of energy that a team like the clippers where everybody is sort of at the same level or a similar level there's not really like a star, you kind of need somebody to bring it all together and elevate the team as a whole just from an energy standpoint,

and I think he does that. So I think that's another one. Let's move on to our last one. This is coach of the year. This is a pretty heated race. I think that the obvious choice is Budenholzer simply because of the difference between our guy Joe Pronti to now

where the Bucks went from the eighth seed in first round chum to essentially the best team in the NBA. I think that's a pretty obvious one where you can just like trace it back to the system and I think he's probably the guy who's going to end up win here. Other guys, I jotted down

Doc Rivers, Nate McMillan, Mike Malone, and Dave Yeager. That would be my ballot and I would list them in that order. Right. Doc and Nate are on the same. Yeah.

On the same tier for me. And that's why it probably bud went there. It's a boon holder, yeah. Just because simply between because the team's been more successful. Which I mean, That's great. You ended up with Janus. I think Mike Willem definitely like in any other year would win that easily.

You know, it's like just taking a team that missed the playoffs last year. And then, I don't know, this is like a huge jump for them to the second seat, you know? Yeah, that's a big leap. The case for Doc, obviously, is also not only had, did the clippers pretty much exceed expectations, but they've also been changing the team on the fly. So that's also. Changing the front office, too. you know,

having to step down. It's almost like, I don't know how much we should give him credit for it because it's basically like he's doing less work. Right. Yeah, that's sure. It's like if you just told me. I think we should give him credit

because usually the guy just gets outright fired. That's true. SVG, Tom. Survival. But Doc was able to be like, no, remember, I'm a good coach. Let me do my thing.

I'll take a step back. And he's at the point now where like he's having to fend off offers or alleged offers and interest. From the Lakers. From the other side of the Staples Center. Imagine how hard he'd be hated. If he switched over? Yeah.

Well, the thing is, like, Clippers fan, there aren't enough to, like, really, really track him down. No, but that would bring hatred from around the league. Fans would really resent that.

Wouldn't be the first time he did something like that. Anything associated with the Lakers right now, fans are going to resent if it's, like, poaching. At the same time, you can't poach. Sure, but at the same time...

You can't poach. You can't poach. I mean, after, like, this Anthony Davis thing, like, come on. Yeah. Poach. The poach you're not to post. Paulo is pro poaching.

Yeah, but I think ultimately Bud is that one. For sure. All right. I think that's a good place to wrap it up there. We'll be back next week, as always.

Until then, from Haley, Paulo, Bobby, and myself. We'll see you next time. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.