The Ringer NBA Show - 2019 NBA Free Agency Live Reactions: Hour 1 | The Ringer NBA Show

Episode Date: June 30, 2019

The Ringer NBA crew gives instant reactions to the first wave of free-agency signings. Watch on The Ringer’s YouTube channel. Host: John Gonzalez Guest: Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the ringer's NBA free agency reactions. John Gonzalez, Kevin O'Connor. We are live from Ringer HQ. How's your Sunday going? Super chill, nothing happening? All kinds of things. It's a slow day. It's a slow day.

Very slow day in the NBA, very slow day here in Los Angeles at Ringer HQ. Before the clock even tick down to 6 p.m. Eastern Time, 3 p.m. Pacific. A ton of news has happened. Kevin, I guess we should start in Brooklyn where the nets are all of a sudden. The new super team, they go out and they get Kevin Derrick. Grant and his one Achilles, the other Achilles to be named later. And we have Kyrie Irving and Garrett Temple. And apparently, also they're adding DeAndre Jordan, your reactions to the Brooklyn

Nuts, overhauling a team that was pretty good last year. Well, generally, it's as if the 6 p.m. 3 p.m. was the deadline, not the start of free agency. And for the Brooklyn Nets, nobody was tampering, by the way. No, there's this all happened within seconds. No tampering. You know, for Brooklyn, obviously, they're going to get better immediately with Kyrie Irving. This one year without Kevin Durant, there was some talk. recently gone's about do you want d angel russle or kairi to me it's obvious you want kair irving

is a better score from the printer a better passer a more proven player in the playoffs the fact he's also bringing kevin durant even if kd doesn't get back to the kd we know the one 100% elite player that he was prior to this achilles injury at 75% kd can come back next season and make the brooklyn nights an immediate contender for the coming years wodge said that uh kd notified golden state and Bob Myers on Sunday, KD, probably while we're talking right now, is announcing this. How about that, man? How about like Steph Curry flies all the way from China to New York, all the way from China and New York just to get told now.

But at least they did everything they could. Yeah, I mean, they tried. And it felt like for a while that KD was on the move and then the Achilles injury happens and all of a sudden it was, well, maybe not. Maybe this will give them a chance to retain him. Maybe he'll even pick up his option and stay in rehab on their dime. And then they decided not to do that. I want to bring you back to, because.

I hear where you're saying, like on paper, yes, this is a much, but obviously a much better Brooklyn Nets team. But they had a good season last season with DeAngelo Russell. And I think that you're right that ostensibly on paper, Kyrie is a better player than DeAngelo Russell. But this is something that Dan Devine wrote about for The Ringer? You should check it out on our website that is he appreciably better at a max number than say, DeAngeloar Russell would have been in the like 25 to 27 million range. Yeah, much better. Hands down.

It's not a question. It's not even close. And are you also factoring in Kyrie being Kyrie with his galaxy brain and, like, chemistry concerns? And who knows what happens with those guys? DeAngelo Russell is a good player. He's a good player and he had a career best season last year. But so much of what he did last year was fueled by his mid-range potency. He shot over 45% from mid-range pull-ups.

He shot over 50% on mid-range flotters. And he still had an almost historically low, a historically low free throw rate. In an article I have either growing up tonight or tomorrow morning, on the ringer. I detail how he is the second lowest free throw rate of any player ever that attempted over 18 shots per game. Is that bad? It's really horrible. And so for Russell, it's a type of thing where when the shots not falling, like it wasn't in the postseason, he can be limited, whereas Kyrie Irvin can do whatever on the court. But also, they put Ben Simmons on him in that postseason. And that was a tough, that was a tough ask for him. I mean,

and they did have a lot of other guards that ended up stepping up for him. Yes, I'm with you. This is an upgrade. This is an upgrade. However, even without Katie. And I would like to believe the Philadelphia and me would like to believe that maybe we're getting just a touch ahead of ourselves with automatically declaring that the Brooklyn Nets are now the team to beat in the Eastern Conference because again, we did that last year with what was that team that you used to cover and follow the Boston Celtics, yes, somebody who owns a very successful media company said that they were slotted for 67 wins. And then all of a sudden, Kyrie went and blew up their chemistry and there was infighting and this like internet scene warfare. And I'm just saying like we should

pump the brakes just a little bit. Also because, look, if you can get KD, you get KD. Go do that. Smart for you. Congratulations to Sean Marks and the Brooklyn Nets for overhauling this team so quickly. But let's not forget that this is like the worst possible injury that you could have, and it's going to take some time. And who knows what the NBA landscape looks like in a year? I'm talking myself into this is going to be fine for the Eastern Conference. Well, here's the thing, right? The NBA landscape right now, it depends so much of what Kauai does. As of now, with Kauai is still a free agent. If he goes back to Toronto or goes to the Clippers, the league is going to be more open than it has ever been maybe this entire decade,

maybe since 07 or 08. If Kauai goes to the Lakers, you know, just throw that comment in the trash. It goes back to being a league where a lot of inevitabilities like we had with Golden State, like we had with the Miami Heat led by LeBron James. But right now with Kady and Kyrie Irving, they're one of the multiple teams that have an actual shot of competing for the finals for the foreseeable future. But so much is going to be determined by what Kauai does. Still, though, in the Eastern Conference Gons, it's hard to get much better than what the Nets have right now. It's just not going to be happening for them this year. It's what's going to happen moving forward. I want to stay with this Nets topic for a second, but as I'm looking over your shoulder because

we've got the television on just like you guys do, I just saw that it looks like J.J. Reddick Ringer podcast or Ringer teammate J.J. Reddick to the Pelicans on a two-year deal. Wow. Sorry to see him glow ago. Glad that he's still going to be at the ringer. I would like the same state in Philadelphia because... That's a much longer commute for him. Brooklyn, you can't just drive down from Brooklyn. The sex for the Sixers, because they really needed that offense for him. It's kind of weird to say that a team with Jimmy Butler and Tobias Harris and J.J. Reddick and Ben Simmons and Joel Embed were offensively challenged at times.

And I will get to the Sixers in a second. But honestly, like, J.J. Reddick really was their instant offense when they needed it a number of times. and to unplug him from that team, that's a big hole to fill. Sure. And from what I'm hearing is it sounds like Philadelphia will get El Horford. And he's not a sure like JJ Reddick, but what he does at least provide is some size. So if Philadelphia is able to keep Tobias Harris, resign him and add El Horford while losing Jimmy Butler, they're going to be a team like, who is built to defend a team that big?

If you can roll out Embed, Hortford, Simmons, Harris as your big four with a fifth out there. Yeah, that's what everybody said. last year when they were like, look how big the Sixers are. But they were four bounces away from being Toronto, and then who knows what happens in Eastern Commerce finals, and then maybe they win the whole dang thing, man. Like Philadelphia, despite all their flaws, despite the imperfect fit with Ben Simmons and Joel and Bede, now if they were able to add Al Horford, another big guy who can space the floor and playmate, and if they keep Tobias Harris, they're still, like, if not the

favorite in the East, they're one of the favorites in the East. Again, like it all comes down to what Kauai Leonard decides to do. I know how much you love Al Horford. Like selling me on Al Horford at his age, though, requires how many years is this deal? Then we'll talk about it because if we're talking a four-year deal, I'm not crazy about signing, what, 33-year-old Al-horford to a four-year deal? If it's a two-year deal, then we can discuss it. Again, like, I got the whole, they're the biggest team in the Eastern Conference, the biggest team thing last year. And now all of a sudden it's falling apart.

There's some, there's a lot of balls that they have in the, air right now that they're juggling and I want to see where they land before I like ultimately render my verdict here. I like Al Horford fine. I think he's a very good player. And obviously that there were serious concerns last year. We saw what happened when they had to try to squeeze like two minutes out of Greg Monroe in the postseason and everything went to total shit. Jonah Bolden. Yeah. And you could potentially play those guys together. But again, what's the deal look like in for how many years? And it worries me that they might have to give him more years than I would be comfortable with at his age. But here's the thing, though, with Philadelphia. It's like,

You should be Al-Horford's aging. Here's the thing. Here's the thing. Joel Al-Labed is young and Ben Simmons is young. And Al-Horford is not. And B moved around sometimes like he was 40. So for Philadelphia, to me, the window is now. It's like, yes, the third and fourth year of that Horford contract, if they sign him, which it sounds like they very well may, might.

The window is now. Like, now is the time to capitalize in a year where Katie's out, where Clay Thompson is out for most of the season, the Western Conference. We'll see what happens over there. And in the east, depending again, on what Kauai does, it is, completely wide open. If Kauai leaves the Raptors, Philadelphia, to me, is the favorite in the east. When the whole of Philadelphia starts burning later, we're going to have you talked them down off the ledge because that was a good pep talk. Woge reporting right now, 76ers have already started discussions with Rich Paul on an extension for Ben Simmons.

There was some question about when that would begin and whether or not they'd do it in earnest. Obviously, they're going to want to extend Ben Simmons, but then there was questions about would Ben Simmons want to be extended that soon? And nobody's passed up that kind of money that he's in line for. But something also to keep an eye on. Back to the Nets for a second, you just gave me the whole preamble on the Sixers and how excited you are for them potentially to be the Eastern Conference favorites, even if you do shuffle out some of these guys. Where do you slot the Nets next season?

Without KD, obviously. You know, I think there are maybe four or five in the East. They're solid. They'll be a good playoff team. I think you can't be underestimated. that they added Tori and Prince, a guy who adds another size at the wing position for them. Like, they're not a contender by any means. But assuming Karras Lever continues making progress, they're going to be a good team, man.

What's your level of confidence that Kairi will behave himself? Post-contract, new place. Kyrie doesn't deserve all of a blame for what happened in Boston. He deserves a large, significant portion of it? Yes, but all of it, no. Part of it was just the circumstances with a guy like Terry Rozier who wanted to get paid and did get paid getting a $58 million contract with an option in the final year. Then you have Jalen Brown and Jason Tatum, two younger players who led a team to the Eastern

Conference finals. And then Haywood comes back and Irvin comes back and suddenly their opportunities are taken away. It was just a mix that just didn't work out. And part of that's on Irving for his passive aggressive comments in the media, for all the thing, the smear campaign, all the things that have been reported about him, part of it is on Kyrie and the drama that naturally surrounds him. However, he's not a bad dude at hard.

A lot of players around the league like him for good reason. He's a very relatable player that players like to play with like Kevin Durant. And so for Brooklyn, yeah, you might have to deal with some more drama, but you're getting a player who has proven himself on the championship stage and you're getting a guy that brought along Kevin Durant with him. Like it's, for Brooklyn, they're going to be better this year with him over Russell and obviously they're better set up for the future with Katie. More news from Woj, Terrence Ross off the board four years,

$54 million to Orlando. That's a guy that I thought, like, hey, that could be interesting for the Sixers if they end up losing JJ. Not that all roads come back to Philadelphia. Orlando really filling up their roster with these All-Stars. Nicola Vucevic and Terrence Ross. How does Vucevic get double? Double what Brooke Lopez gets.

Are you kidding me? I mean, well, I think for Orlando, you're just going to want to throw as much money as possible and keep your fingers crossed. The ripple effects for the nuts here. So DeAngelo Russell is going to move on. Where do you like him? Because we've heard a lot of smoke about maybe Minnesota. That would require Gerson Rossos and Sotchen Gupta to do some nifting, nifty front office maneuvering.

And by the way, I am all in on those two guys and they're super smart. And I think they're going to be able to do that. But do you like him to Minnesota? Is it possible hands up with the Lakers? What do we think here? You know, with Russell, I like him from Minnesota. I think that would be a perfect pick and all partnership with Colorado. Are you moving Wiggins out in that scenario?

I mean, I love to move Andrew Wiggins. I know Mo's our radio producer, Timber Wals fan, is sitting there. Getting very excited. He's going to knock over the cameras. Big smile on his face. But good luck moving Andrew Wiggins. That's the problem. You may be in a situation where you're more likely to move a Jeff Teague with a Robert

Covington in order to create close to enough cap space for Russell. But here's the thing, man. It would help them on the offensive end of the floor. But with those two guys, Russell and towns, you're going to really need to surround those too with a lot of great wing defenders because Russell is not a good defender of the point guard position and Towns at center is average sometimes good. So like Towns is really going to have to become the guy that he showed he could be at the college level at Kentucky when look, Towns was drafted first because of his defense, not because

of his offense. Yeah, you're right. It just hasn't clicked for him all the way in the NBA. He had a career best year last year on the defensive end of the floor. That needs to continue improving for him for that partnership to work. Offensively, that could be a lot of fun. though. So we have the Nets having a very, very good day in New York. The other team in New York, not such a good day. This is something you and I have talked about previously. I want to say

very quietly. I want to say it very quietly because the boss is somewhere around here, rattling around, like probably crying about the NICS. You and I have talked about the NICS. You actually have liked previously the way that the front office has tried to set things up. I'm more of an LOL NICS kind of person. This is not a good look for them because they go and They trade. Can I be both? Hold on. Maybe you can. Yeah, yeah, absolutely you can. But he like, so I understand why they moved on from Christaps, Prasenghis, because Christaps didn't want to be there. And they had come to a loggerhead and fine. But that's the kind of guy that you make these moves to get. And then if you're going to offload him, you've got to go into free agency, like just knowing that you're going to replace somebody, you're going to replace him with a superstar. And clearly right now, that's going to be awfully difficult. According to Peter Vessi, he's got them in talks to do a sign-in, trade for Quinn Cook. And David Aldridge has them pivoting to target Julius Randall, Bobby Portis, George

Hill, and Reggie Bullock, which is Wompwomp-Womp time. If you're the Knicks, you just stay like keeping catching L's here and you can't be happy about this. Here's a thing with the Knicks. I think Steve Mills has done a fine job since he got hired.

And so if that's the starting point, I think the Knicks have been fine. Put aside all the James Dolan stuff, which does matter. Steve Mills has done a fine job so far. For Brooklyn, it's a type of thing where whoever they signed this summer, they need to be building towards 2021. They could enter that offseason, 21 offseason with RJ Barrett, Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson,

their 2020 first round draft pick, their 2021 first round draft pick, and the Dallas Mavericks. And tomorrow and tomorrow, it's like, yeah, it's all about tomorrow. But it's been about tomorrow for them since, you know, five yesterdays ago where they were like, okay, no, no, no, the year is really going to be this or where it was going to be, you know, There's building for LeBron. Right. That's what I'm saying. Like at some point, you're a team that just despite the fact that you're playing in the

Mecca and you're playing in MSG and you're supposed to be one of the flagship franchises of the NBA, like at some point you have to wonder why free agents aren't going there when they have attractive situations potentially to get max slots. And that's, I think, leads like directly back to James Dolan. You need to make yourself attractive, is what I mean. Like over the next year's you need to build with a young core and add some guys, Julie's friend will be a good signing for them. Like some of these guys are laughable compared to getting Kevin Durant with.

the healthy Achilles and getting Kyrie Irvin with him. But it's still not, it's still not the worst thing in the world to have a young team that's growing organically with some other young guys like Julius Randall. And maybe you build towards 2021, a loaded free agent class, which is going to be headlined by Janus. And it's also going to have guys like, oh, Janus is the next guy going to New York. Sure, but he might not. Put him down.

But it's like Bradley Beal, Rigo, Bear, you can build towards that next decade. It's like not the end of the world for the Knicks. It's just like, these next two years are critical, though. need to fix the perception of you around the league. Granted, like, you could also say, well, the Lakers didn't have to do anything and they still got LeBron and then they got AD. But for the Knicks, like, I think that perception is real and it exists. No matter who you talk to around the league, players, coaches, executives, the NICs are sort of a laughing stock. So they need to fix that over the next two years.

Bigger, I mean, it's to me, like, I can't, I can't think of a team and we'll get to the Clippers in a second. Like, they have high hopes still that maybe Kauai ends up in Los Angeles. us, but like, if we're talking about the two teams that all season long, we were, we were hearing, oh, this is going to be their offseason. They're going to go out and sign the big boys. It was those two teams. And like, at least the clippers still have a good team even if they strike out. The Knicks don't. So to me, it kind of does feel like the end of the world, because if you're going to trade at Christaps Porzengis to clear this cap space, the whole point in doing so was to get somebody now, not later. Like, and yes, the dynamics were changed by KD

and his Achilles getting blown out. But still, like, you know, it's too bad. I would be really, I would be really worked up if I was done. That Katie injury has bothered me more and more is the weeks have passed since it happened. It's like initially my first reaction is like, well, first of all, like, obviously it stinks for KD and like, what does this mean for the Warriors? But like, as time has passed, it's like, dang, we're going to be about, we're going to be without one of the game's greatest for a full year without a guarantee that he ever gets back to being his full self.

And, and like, that's really a sad thing that we might be losing him at his peak powers when the whole conversation in the last year was about how he would. go to New York or go wherever and lead his own team and do it his own way. And we're not going to get that. But what we might get, though, is like the reemergence of him, going from a hated player with the Warriors, to maybe becoming beloved again with the Brooklyn match thing, to come back.

And I'm rooting for Katie to get back and be healthy. Brian Phillips just wrote about that for The Ringer for us, about how for a long time it was people getting angry at KD for playing basketball and doing the thing he loves. And now he's got a chance to rehab the narrative surrounding him by not doing the thing that we like to watch him do. It's kind of a very strange situation. Some more red meat.

Before we get to the red meat, actually, we got Shams saying Trevor Arisa on a two-year, $25 million deal to Sacramento. Sacramento also expected to retain Harrison Barnes. And also they're looking at a Dwayne Dedman contract. So I guess good for Sacramento. That's fine. You know, they want to sign some guys off they go.

Terry Rozier, this is something. And we're going to get to why this happened in a second. with Kemba. But Terry Rozier, according to Shams, a fully guaranteed three-year, $58 million deal to the Charlotte Hornets, that feels banana town to me. Like really truly crazy to give that much money to Terry Rozier when you were all of a sudden out on Kemba Walker, who was considerably better. How do you feel about what Charlotte's doing? Do you know what Charlotte's doing? I feel like Charlotte is the most mysterious and confusing and hard to understand what the hell they're doing organization this side of the Phoenix Suns. Have they ever showing?

any indication that they know what they're doing under Michael Jordan's leadership. You know, for the Hornets, it's, if you're a Hornets fan, it's got to be a little bit disappointing here because for the last two years, first, last year in the 2017-18 season under Rich Cho, and then this year, the new regime, they had opportunities to trade Kembo Walker. And each time Michael Jordan said no. And the expectation across the league was that the Hornets would do everything that they could to re-sign Kemper Walker and keep their franchise player. They did not do that.

There were reports, which I believe to be true, that they offered a five-year, $160 million contract, which is about $60 million short of the full Supermax that could have offered. And so for Charlotte, it's like, it makes some sense to let go of Kemba. He's 29. He's had three knee surgeries. He's a tiny point guard that might not age well. So signing him to that money would lock you in and you're going to have no route to really

becoming a competitive team. However, the fact is, you're just like a different tiny point guard. However, the fact is, is like, yeah, you sign that. a different tiny point card who's unproven and only had like one real strong stretch, but you also had opportunities to trade Kemba and get more in return for him two years in advance or this year at the deadline. And they said no. So they effectively lost Kemba Walker for an overpay for Terry Rozier, which like it just doesn't make sense to me. So the only part, and I've heard this and I want to see what like you think about it. The only part that

might maybe kind of a little bit make sense on why didn't they trade him at the deadline was that they were trying to make it into the postseason and they wanted to reach the playoffs for the first time in a while. So they could get. Smoked in the first round. I'm with you. That still doesn't make it sense. You know, Michael Jordan just wanted his two games of playoff revenue. That's a joke. Some more news here, which has Alpharicamuno. You were saying, what the hell is Orlando doing? How about three years for the chief in $30 million, $29 million from the magic? So the magic really enjoyed making the postseason. Shouts to Kevin Clark's

magic. They really enjoyed making the postseason. And they're going to try to do it again, gang. And who knows, they might even win a couple games. The big X factor there is Markle Fultz. You can't rush these things. Markell could be back at any time. Let's go see. Just get it be really, really, really patient with Markle. Did you see he posted a Snapchat of a video from last summer when he was training? Sure.

I saw that there were reports from Orlando saying that he, that Markell was in like really fantastic shape and I will buy that when I see it. All right. That's enough Markle talk. Boston. Boston's got a lot of pieces moving around. here too. I think that this could be a Ewing theory situation where you're removing Kyrie Irving and it might end up being better for them. I like Kemper Walker. Yes, as you mentioned, he's 29

years old, so he's older than Kyrie and he does have the knee situation. However, by all accounts, he does a lot of things that will fit with Brad Stevens' offense and he get along, go along guys. It's super nice dude. I think you fold him into that dynamic and you put some of that other like animosity with Kyrie behind you. The question is, There were varying reports on Al Horford. We'll say he's out of the mix for right now. Do you like them retooling on the fly with Kemba? Yeah, definitely.

I mean, there's an element of risk here for the reasons you just stated with his age and the knee issues he's had in the past. So far, it hasn't limited him on the court. We'll see if that happens long term. But with Kemba, for Boston, they're going from Isaiah Thomas to Kyrie Irving and now to Kemba Walker. All three point guards are fairly similar. They're smaller.

They can attack off dribble, shoot from anywhere. Kemba is a bit more like Isaiah Thomas, which should be a good thing for the Celtics because of his willingness and ability to shoot off of tough angles off screens and handoffs. Irving is a better player, to be clear, a better shooter, better at getting to the rim, better at scoring at the rim. But Kemba Walker does have some advantages because even though he doesn't get to the rim quite as much as Kyrie, he draws more fouls. He is a more willing shooter off of screens, which should allow Boston to get into more of their crisp motion actions. that they went a little bit away from what Kyrie. It was kind of a problem with Kyrie. It was sort of a catch-22 because on the one hand,

that keep the ball moving, Brad Stevens' offense where they're sharing the ball was really good for everybody else. But the thing that Kyrie does best a lot of the time is give him the ball, let him cook and ISO. And those two things were sometimes at odds, and I think it frustrated some of the other Celtics last year.

So maybe Kempa is a better fit there. I want to talk about a team that I think that we... One thing on Boston, though, like losing Al-Horford potentially, though, his importance can't be understated to give me your Al Horford do you like Al Horford I love Al Horford he everybody should love

Al Horford what Al Horford does he's somebody who goes beyond the box score what he did for Isaiah Thomas with opening passing lanes on dribble handoffs because he's such a threat from three and such a good playmaker for Big Man said they did the same thing for Kyrie Irving to a little bit of a lesser extent

and he would have done the same thing for Kemba and now for Boston they need to find answers they need to find a new big man because right now in the Eastern Conference, they're a good team with Kemba Walker, Jason Tatum, Jalen Brown. They're a good team still well positioned. However, they don't have a big man. They have Robert Williams. They got rid of Baines. They got rid of Baines. They have Gershawain Yad Buceli. They have Grant Williams and Shemi-Ojali. So they're going to be a team that's going to be playing small a lot, but they need to find a traditional center to replace Al-Whorford. It's impossible to

replace it. I wish, you know, and I really like how much you stand for Al-Horford and you just rattling off like 17 big men. I think you made up a couple of those names. I can't be sure that any of them are actually players. I do, however, wish that the rest of you could see the look that I'm seeing, because over here in the corner, I've got Chris Ryan just smirking in Kevin O'Connor's direction at this. I don't think he's buying what you're selling about the Boston Celtics. I want to talk about a team that we've completely overlooked here who with the Sixers, not the Sixers, just using those as a pivot point. With the Sixers, everybody in Philadelphia was like very much, hey, let's run it back. This could be really.

really good. As you said, they were one freak bounce away from going to the Eastern Conference Finals, and who knows, maybe beyond. The team that actually looks like it's running it back and that is in a really good position to have another, like, growth year next year, is the Milwaukee Bucks. The Milwaukee Bucks look like they go out and they're going to retain Chris Middleton. They sign Brooke Lopez to a good number. And now all of a sudden, they've got a chance to bring back Malcolm Brogdon. Well, this is it. This is your core for the next two years with Yonis Antonin Accompo. This is it. And what they have is a core that was close this season and assuming Janus continues improving,

assuming Malcolm Brogden continues improving and their other young pieces, this is a strong enough core to make a title run. So for the Milwaukee Bucks, like good on them to get Brooke Lopez up the number that they did, what was it, $52, $54 million, and then to get Chris Middleton slightly below the max is great value. However, we will see what Brogden ends up getting. He could be a player that receives an offer sheet over $20 million annually from like a team like the bulls or the magic and we'll see how that develops. But for Milwaukee, like,

keeping Brogden was important and as well as keeping Middleton and Brooke Lopez at a fine cap number. Because we brought it up and because things are constantly changing, they changed as we were talking about this. There's reports out of Milwaukee that potentially the bucks are working on a sign and trade with Malcolm Brogden to Philadelphia of all places where. Who's that from? This is from Jerry Welfle. Interesting. Yes. 105.7 in Milwaukee. Milwaukee. We'll see whether or not he's on to something with that. But I'll say that Malcolm Brogden's a guy who, despite the fact that on the heat check podcast, we give him shade all the time

for being, for stealing that rookie of the year award from not one but two Philadelphia 76ers. Coming into this offseason, I really thought, hey, as a contingency plan, if Jimmy Butler and or Tobias Harris walked away, you know, who would be really interesting for the Philadelphia 76ers, Malcolm Brogden, because he does a lot of things that you'd want. Like, there's a case to be made in that in that Milwaukee post season that after yonis that malcolm bragdon might have been their their second best player right like i think like chris middleton i like him a lot i think that he's worth the max i think you should keep him with with yonis and run them out there and you know keep that court together but losing brogden or signing and trading them because you can't offer him the same money would i think be a blow

for them and a boom potentially for the sixers if that's a team that he ends up going to for sure i mean Brogden, his importance next to Yannes. Talk about Brogden again. His importance next to Yannis as a secondary ball handler. A guy who can space a switchable defense. Switchable defender. He's critical. And losing him would be quite a blow.

We'll see how that develops. I really liked him. One other note. I just saw this pop up on my Twitter timeline over here. Danny Green talking with the Dallas Mavericks. Sure. Danny Green, again, another one of those critical role players. Jason Gallagher. Also, I look that you can't see right now.

On the one hand, we have Chris Ryan. Back in the other corner, we have Jason Gallagher, who's a big Mavs fan. I don't think quite as excited about Danny Green as maybe Chris might be about Malcolm Brogden. Rubio to the Sons. Rubio to the Sons is just announced by Shams' $3 million deal. I don't get that. That's awful. This is surprising because, so we're going to get into why Kevin thinks it's awful in just a second.

Because he can't shoot. But for a while, it was supposed to be he was going to go to the Pacers. The Pacers were the hot team for Ricky Rubio. It looked like they were going to sign him and they looked like the frontrunner. And now they're not. Why? And why, for the Pacers, by the way, the Pacers just threw three years and 31.5 million at Jeremy Lamb instead. So I like, wait, what was that number for Lamb?

Three for 31.5. All right. Let's start with Ricky Rubio because I refuse to have your Ricky Rubio slander. I love Ricky Rubio. he's a handsome man. Yeah, he's handsome. He plays, he's a good pick and roll defender. He's not going to be a ball stopper.

Yes, he's got some shooting issues. But you've got Devin Booker there to crank up three balls. Here's the thing. I would have loved to have seen, and this to me, Rubio can help Devin Booker for the reason you just said. He can push Booker off ball, and soon enough people will stop whining about Booker being an on-ball ball hog. He's going to be a guy who more frequently,

Did we just tweet a whole bunch of stuff is happening right now. All right. So I'm going to cut you off from Ruki Rubio because more things have happened. Malcolm Brogden has agreed to a deal with Indiana as a restricted free agent. And Bojab Bogdanovich has going to the Utah Jazz. Like they were within the last day or so rumored to be the hot team for Bogdanovich. He's going for four years and $73 million to Utah. Utah taking a big swing deciding that now is the time for the jazz to win the Western Conference.

and might very well be. We were in the process of talking about Malcolm Brogden being in a sign and trade to Philadelphia. Now all of a sudden, we've got to find out what this number on the offer sheet is because Indiana would like to make him a pacer. So it will be up to the Milwaukee Bucks to decide if they're going to match that offer sheet. Is that a coin toss or is going to go back? It depends on what the number is, right? I mean, I think that like all, this entire offseason before free agency actually began,

the Bucks probably had a walk away number on Malcolm Bragdon. How much do they want to go into the tax? It's a small market team. I think if you want to keep Yonis on Ticompo in Milwaukee for the foreseeable future, you're going to have to go out and at least try to retain all these guys. But at some point, the price point becomes prohibitive. Do we have the price point on Malcolm Brogdon? Indiana is trading a first round and two future second round picks to the two Milwaukee for Malcolm Brogden.

So I guess it looks like it's done. Malcolm Brogden has agreed to a four-year $85 million deal with Indiana. That's the walkaway number. And this works out, you know what? So he did get over the 20 million annually. A first round and two future second rounders from Milwaukee. If you're going to say goodbye to Malcolm Brogden, that's a nice parting gift. It depends largely in what year it is.

But this is a major blow for Milwaukee. You think it is. His importance can't be understated. As a two-way player, is a secondary ball handler who helped Yonits into Kumpo, alleviating pressure off of Yannis. And now you look at Milwaukee, they're going to have to rely on Eric Bledso, who stunk in the postseason. He wasn't good.

Malcolm Brogden is a... George Hill was better than Eric Fletso for large chunks of it. And he's a free agent. And he is also a free agent. Malcolm Brogden is somebody who the only real concern with him was the foot. He had a foot injury that was surgically repaired in college. He got red flagged by various teams entering the draft. But he's been fine thus far with that injury so far in the NBA.

So that's about it. Like he's a good defender who's big, who plays hard. He's a smart player, a great guy in the locker room, a leader by example. a great three-point shooter, a guy who can attack off the dribble who can pass and run, pick and roll. That player, like, he was not more important than Chris Middleton from Milwaukee, but pretty close. Yeah, pretty close. I had a lot of, look, there are a ton of people out there who love Malcolm Brogden more than us, but I'm with you. I thought that, like, Chris Middleton was the most important cog because there's three and D wings that he is really good.

It was like my number one priority for the bucks, but one A was Brogden. But that was always going to be a question if you were going to bring back Brooke Lopez as well. So I think if it's going to be this kind of money where it's four years and $85 million and he's going to leave anyway to get a first round pick and to future seconds, I mean, yeah, would you rather have Malcolm Brogden? Yes, but you can't apparently have everything. So this is, as part in Gifts go, it could be worse. Yeah, it could be worse.

And maybe you can use that first round draft pick to pick up another asset. Right. But right now you look at their roster, man. Like, they're still a contender. But they're lacking that third guy. guy. And I think this year really could be their window. Like they need to, they need to add somebody else for this year using their assets or next year in order to maximize their remaining two years or more. They hope with Yanosante de Kumpo. Yeah. And for Indiana, of course, think about him next to Victor Oladipo. Everything that I just said about all the positive qualities that he brings, now he provides a perfect balance. Yeah, that's a really good point with Victor Oladipo. Two great defensive guys in that backcourt who can maybe, we'll see what they do with their, their, their,

Lut at the big man position, Miles Turner, DeMontas Sabonis. Yeah, maybe they moved one. And then they drafted Goga Patzi, which could allow them to move Sabonis or Turner, more likely Sabonis in some type of trade. Like, you could have one of the best defensive teams with Turner Manning the Paint, Oladipo, and Brogden, and then the other additions that they've made at Indiana and then have a good offense. Yeah, as this plays out in real time, net effect, you think, for the Pacers, because they

lose Bogdanovich, but they pick up your guy, Jeremy Lamb, who you're very excited. about. Oh, they got Lamb, that's right. Yeah, they pick up Jeremy Lamb, who you're very excited about. And Malcolm Brogden. Net effect there, win, loss. I mean, like, you're losing Bogdanovich, but you also, you picked up T.J. Warren before the draft. We'll see what happens with that. They're going to be a really, really, really good team. They were a good team before, and like you said, you're going to get Ola Depot back at Chippeat. I think Miles Turner making a leap this year. He played around 28, 20 minutes for games. Oh, this is the leap year. I mean, he already. Every year is going to be the leap year. He made one leap already, but making

another leap now. If he's able to become a guy who's playing 32, 33 minutes per game, he's a defensive player, and then you have Ola Dippo getting back healthy with Brogden and other additions. They could be a really, really dark, a real dark horse team to actually make the finals. If you're only keeping one of Turner or Sabonis, which one do you like better? Probably Turner because of the defensive aspects. Sabonis is a more talented offensive player. Yeah, more consistent, more affectionate. Yeah, not quite the same one. But he doesn't give you the defense.

Before we continue to other things, let's talk about the jazz. Because the jazz are taking some big swings here. They go out and get Mike Connolly in a trade where they could have just tried to take, they could have freed up like maybe $33 million in free agent money and gone after, who knows. And instead they go after Mike Connolly and then they sign Bogdanovich, who they lose Korver and super upgrade for Bogdanovich. I think if you're talking about a younger, better shooter, well, not better shooter, but in terms of his age, he's a really good shooter.

He was going to be a coveted free agent. I know the Lakers were talking about being interested in him. The Pacers probably would have liked to at a shot at resigning him. Instead he goes to Utah. Is Utah's time? I mean, Utah thinks its time is right now, but in terms of how the Western Conference dynamic is shaking out, like, are you, we have to be buying them at the top of the Western Conference, no?

Like, if you're somebody who likes betting, it's not a bad time to place a bet on Utah jazz, because you think about what Mike Conley, forget about Bogdanovich for a minute. Mike Conley enhancing Donovan Mitchell in that back court. Conley for this past five, six years or so is one of the NBA's best pick and roll scores, as well as one of the league's best playmakers in the pick and roll for a team that ran almost more pick and rolls than anybody in the league last year.

And so that's going to make life easier on Mitchell. Then you add Bogdanovich, the wing scorer, the forward that they've lacked for years now. And him and Joe Ingalls with Mitchell and Conley and Rudy Gobert, You not only have a stellar defensive team, but a team that's going to be really potent and versatile on offense. Because Bogdanovich, this year after Oladipa went down, he showed he can be more than just a guy who's, you know, running off screens for you, running off handoffs. Indiana put him in pick and roll. And he showed that he can do a heck of a lot more with the ball on his hands. So all of those guys can handle.

All of those guys can pass. So they have a multi-dimensional offense that's also going to be great on defense. They're a real, real threat. The offense upgrade this year is significant for them. And that was a thing that, like, last year and the year before, they were challenged for the reason. And I'm not going to disparage my guy, Rick Rubio, the way that you did. But this is clearly an upgrade for them in terms of, like, what they can do offensively.

Because there were frequently times defense was never a problem for them, but there were frequently times where, oh, they need a bucket right now. And Donovan Mitchell does not have a shot falling. And now what? Like, Joe Ingalls is a good complimentary score, but he can't be. Like, I love Joe Ingalls, but it can't be. oh yeah we could just have joe ingles go cook now you've got mike connolly who can get you buckets now you've got bucked down a bitch who can get you buckets you've still got angles this is now a very

versatile team definitely i i think utah if you're if you're power ranking the team's the nba right now utah is not quite number one but pretty high up there could be number one depending on where kowai goes depending on what happens uh like i said if you're somebody who likes betting now would be the time to place i bet on the utah jazz uh i as i mentioned i'm terrible at it but i'll bet on the jazz with your money if you want to stake me. Before we go, we're going to continue in a little while because stuff is happening fast and furious here. But before we go, we mentioned a lot of teams. We haven't really talked about what happens with the Philadelphia 76ers. They're juggling a lot of balls here, and it's possible that they drop quite a few. This was always going to be a make or break

off season for the Sixers. We saw what they did in the draft where they decided to get rid of a of their second round picks. Elton Brand said that he needed every penny to throw into free agency. But by doing so, like for me, you know, I understand why he did that. But a team that could ostensibly be hard-capped, you would want a couple of bites at those really cheap rookie contracts where you'd be like, oh, okay, you know, we can develop some young talent that we could have under control for the foreseeable future at like a pittance. And now all of a sudden, the way that they've structured this off-season, it is very much a make or break. deal. And, you know, we're still waiting to find out whether Jimmy Butler is going to end up

in Miami or places elsewhere, what they're going to do with Tobias Harris. We've heard rumors about Al Horford being a contingency plan. Like, there's a lot of things that could go wrong for the Sixers. I thought maybe they could jump in on Brogden. That's out the window now. How nervous should Sixers fans be with the way that they set this up and everything that they traded during the season where it was going to be, oh, let's run it back. And they gave up all those assets to now just hoping, like, oh, maybe Al Horford comes. You know, I think that Butler trade was a necessity. I think it was a fine gamble for them to take for Jimmy Butler.

It just didn't work out. And maybe he leaves now from Miami, that just seems like could be the expectation. But for Philadelphia, man, like, they're still in great shape. They're still in good shape, especially if you had Al Horford, like we talked about earlier, I don't think there's many teams that are built to defend a team with that combination of size and skill. and if Embed's able to stay healthy, which is the key to obviously any team having their star player, star player stay healthy, but specifically with Embed with his injury history and the fact he's 25 going on 40 at times last season, they're going to be one of the favorites in the Eastern Conference. It's like it's not unreasonable say we end up seeing a Philadelphia, Utah NBA finals next year.

But like getting out Horford would not be such a bad thing in the world, man. It's not bad. I told you, I like Al Horford, but not bad is not what they were going for here. If we're going to rewind to a year ago with, you know, Brett Brown sitting in front of the media and in front of the fans and in front of the world, frankly, and going, we're going star hunting. Al Horford doesn't qualify. He just doesn't. I like Al Horford fine, but he doesn't qualify as we're taking big swings and we're trying to get meetings with LeBron James.

Instead, they only get a meeting with his people. They don't get a meeting at all with Paul George. And now of a sudden they go and actually trade for all these people. And maybe one of them leaves and like you're left going, no, Al Horford's really good. I like Al Horford, who's 33 and would potentially be 37 at the back end of a four-year contract. I don't feel great about that. I don't feel great about that front office and all the things that they were trying to do. And all of a sudden, they're trying to sell me on, you know, Al Hartford in parts.

Not as exciting. I think the issue for Philadelphia will once again be depth. How do you feel the gaps on the rest of that roster? That too. And it's not even just, it's not even just depth. It's also high-end top-line talent because you're going to take a step back. Like, look, again, I like Al Hartford, but that is a step back from Jimmy Butler. It just is because think about how much they needed him in the postseason where they

marginalized Ben Simmons and put him in the dunker spot because he couldn't shoot. And they needed Jimmy to run all that way. What hand does he shoot with? Right. I got the wrong shooter over here. And we don't know what he's doing this offseason, but they needed Jimmy Butler to assume like most of the pick and roll ball handling. That's a killer. And that's where the issue lies with this team. Ben Simmons told Zach Lowe after their postseason was over, I'm a guy who's downhill. I'm a guy who playmates. He doesn't see himself as a guy who's setting screens rolling to the rim. He doesn't see himself of the guy cleaning up from the dunker spot on the baseline. And that is the ultimate issue here that Ben Simmons shoots with the wrong hand. He cannot shoot. I can never hear this enough. Somebody called him, there was a good joke on Twitter the other day.

Tell me about it. You do knock, knock, and I'll say who's there. Kangaroo Kid Gilchrist. He is. I don't agree with the nickname necessarily, but Kangaroo Kid Gilchrist is pretty good for Ben Simmons. I forget who said that. Apologies to whoever came up.

Yeah, hilarious joke to whoever came up with that. But with Ben already. But with Ben, already a great player, despite the lack of a shot. But he needs to either do one and two things. Improve that damn jump shot or become a guy who's willing to screen, rolled the rim, be like Draymond Green or Blake Griffin, and do that role, do that and maximize that role because he's not going to be the guy in the half court without a jump shot. So it's that for

them, and then it beats health. That's it. Like MB needs to stay healthy. It's really that simple for them to remain competitive. It's bubbling up to be very murmurie in Philadelphia. I have a feeling that the people are not going to be excited about this. In Portland, before we go, Free Agent Rodney Hood has agreed to a two-year, $16 million deal to return to Portland, according to Woj. And of course, earlier in the day, they signed. Dame to the Supermat vet extension. So good for him. Good for them.

They're going to keep that team together. The model of consistency in Portland and the Pacific Northwest. We'll see what happens with Philadelphia, which players they retain, which players they don't. We've got Kauai out there still to make some news. How about the fact that we've had so much stuff leaked up the last 24 hours? We have right now we're talking about maybe Jimmy Butler goes to Miami and we'll see where they move pieces in order to outright sign him. but like the one guy there's been nothing about is kawai leonard and nothing we've done what 45 minutes so

far talking about free agency and the lakers haven't really come up like what happens we were talking about uh how bad this looks for the nicks to strike out at this point where they went all in for this off season and just got rebuffed by everybody what would it look like for the lakers if they go and clear that 32 million and they can't spend it on anybody like what if they strike out on kawai what if they strike out on uh they don't get a jimmy bell or de angela russel or any of these other guys that we were potentially linking to them as consolation prizes. What if they've got that money and they've just, they've got to sprinkle? And there's some people who think that maybe it would be smarter for them to sprinkle the 32

million around to a number of like mid-level free agents, right? Those guys are going away though. They're going away quickly. Like, so what happens if you have that 32 million that you want and cleared and you can't spend it on anybody worth spending it on? Unless they know something that we don't right now. Who doesn't? Maybe they do.

And by the way, like just one other round of thought, New Orleans Pelicans, they've had besides Zion, they've had a great, great, awesome. killing it. I think signing JJ Reddick, like they may not be a playoff team, but they're going to be one of those young teams that's knocking on the door for a large part of the season and maybe pushes through if Zion is able to be one of those rare rookies who is an impact player from day one, which he very well might be. You know who's never missed the playoffs? J.J. Reddick. Boom. All I'm saying is like JJ and his foresight on when he went to the Sixers and they were a young up-and-coming team and all of a sudden like helped be the veteran presence in the locker

room and then they make the playoffs. Now all of a sudden he goes down to New Orleans. And like you mentioned, David Griffin has been absolutely killing it since taking over that team, brings in JJ Reddick with some of that free cap space. It's pretty awesome, man. Pretty awesome. All right. So are we coming back later or we don't know? Yeah, let's see what happens. We're going to see what happens. There's always something happening. The NBA never stops. We will likely be back with more free agency reactions live from Ringer HQ. There's going to be a ton of stories and content on the ringer.com that you're going to want to read from all of our fantastic NBA writers. And I'll also. Also, tonight at some point when we're done jabbering into a camera and typing into our computer machines,

we're going to have a live, not a live heat check, but a heat check that Isaac Lee will produce and push out into your podcast feed. So be on the lookout for that. Kevin O'Connor, John Gonzalez. We'll be back. Yeah.