The Ringer NBA Show - 30 Thoughts for 30 Teams | Heat Check (Ep. 347)

Episode Date: December 3, 2018

More than a quarter of the way through the regular season, what can we say about every team in the NBA? Host: John Gonzalez Guests: Jason Concepcion, Kevin O’Connor, Haley O’Shaughnessy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey guys, it's Liz Kelly. Throughout the month of December, the Ringer staff will be releasing their year-end reviews covering the best and worst of 2018 in sports, TV, movies, music, and more. This week on the site, you can read Chris Ryan and Alison Herman on the best TV shows of 2018 and Chase Serrano and Rob Harvilla on the best albums of the year. You can check it all out on The Ringer.com. Welcome to Heat Check. I'm your host, John Gonzalez. Join as I am every week by my producer, Isaac Lee.

How was your weekend, Isaac? What's good, man. My weekend was good. I did a lot of work. And I watched some Clippers basketball, which was not as fun as work. It could have been better. They ended up losing a close one to the Dallas Mavericks without Luca,

your guy, Luca. But good news for you. You still have a job. You're still employed. I still have a job. I'm still employed. Without a job, not employed. Fred Hoyberg, right before we came on, he lost it.

I don't know what the Bulls are doing. I was debating this in my head on my way into the office. Are they trying to lose more? or do they think that they should be better than they were and that like Jim Boylan is going to fix all this? Who knows, man? I think they're going to take more. I think they're looking at the NCAA.

I think they're looking at the Duke guys, Bobel and Romeo Langford and all these guys who look good. I think this draft class is going to be really good. And they're like, we need to ensure that we have one of the top three worst records, which they do right now. Right, Hohiburg was already doing a great job of that. They had 19 losses, which is the most losses. along with Phoenix Suns, by percentage points,

only the calves and sons are worse than them. They're already right there. If what you're saying is true, then they must have a very low opinion of Jim Boylan, who, by the way, they made the actual head coach and he's not the interim head coach. Oh, really? Yeah, I think it's the opposite.

I think they look at it and think that they should be better than they were, even though they were without Laurie Market and he just came back. They've been without Chris Dunn. Bobby Portis got hurt. I don't know why they would think that they should be better.

I'm with you that they should just be bad this season and then get another draft pick. But that's what I think this is. I think that they go, yeah, maybe we could win some games. Why, I have no idea. But Godspeed, Fred Hoyberg, not a very good run for you, 115 and 155 in Chicago. He was doing fine losing games.

Yeah, he was doing fine for sure. It's just inexplicable, I guess, then. I mean, you make a good point. He's done a good job of losing. I don't know if it's a thing where they feel like they're going to be better over the course of the next few years and therefore need a better coach. Maybe in terms of pure product,

they look at Fred Hoyberg's coaching abilities and the team and the roster they want to construct and feel like there's dissonance there. Sure. I have no idea. There's such a bizarre team. I love the Bulls. We'll get into the Bulls and the rest of the teams a little bit later.

By the way, Wendell Carter Jr. is the truth. I like him. So maybe this will change things for him as well. But we've got all kinds of stuff for you on the Ringer podcast network. We want to say thank you for listening. Please rate and review us and all of our fantastic.

Ringer NBA shows and pods. We've also got great stuff up on the ringer.com. KOC, who'll be here a little later in the program, did a piece on Joelle and Beads killer MVP caliber season already pandering to the heat check podcast before he even comes on. I love it. Haley will also be here. She wrote a piece about J.J. Berra's old head magic. He's not that old, but I do like the piece. And DJ Foster, did you see this piece? I don't know who wrote the headline. One of the great headlines in Ringer history. Jamal Murray is the troll face of the Nuggets franchise. Fantastic stories. Check out all that stuff. And as I said, KOC and Haley will be here a little later. We're going to start off with Jason Concepcion. What we decided was we're about a quarter of

the way, depending on how you want to cut this up, chop it up. We're about a quarter of the way, loosely speaking into the NBA season. And so we decided to run through all 30 teams in the NBA. And to do that, we're going to give one thought per team. So it's going to be 30 teams, 30 thoughts to sort of get us into the quarter mark of the NBA season. And to start that out, we're going to bring in our guy, Jason Concepcion. Boom, Shakalaka. He's heating up. All right, joining me in the studio from Binge Mode, from NBA Desktop, which has been really fantastic recently. I appreciate that.

What is your fun, fancy title, head of content? Is that right? Am I doing that right? Supreme Leader of Content. It's excellent. I want a title like that. It's very good. Jason Concepcion is here. Hello. Toled us off. Okay, so we, I gave you some fun teams, and we're going to, we've never done this on He-Chick before. Isaac and I had talked about doing 30 thoughts on 30 teams. It sounded like a fun idea.

So I gave you five, and I'm going to do five. So you start out with your first team with one thought. Could be anything. Toronto Raptors. Yes. I picked them to be the best team in the East in the preseason. I'm delighted to see that that prediction is coming true. Nick Nurse has the worst facial hair in the league.

Does he have bad facial hair? It's just, I don't understand. understand what it is. It's that disconnected goatee and it's not all the way filled in and it just doesn't make any sense. That said, this has to be recent because I saw him in Los Angeles when they were here to play the Lakers and he didn't have any. Oh my God. Maybe it's maybe it's just like a shadow on my television. Maybe he's just sort of letting it grow out. There's a lot of that going on. I'll say this. They're just like a blender on the perimeter. They just have so many guys that they can throw at you. And the scary thing about it is that Kauai seems, I don't know, I'll make up a

percentage, 80%, 75%. Okay. And yet they just have so many bodies, so many athletic long bodies that can throw at you. And Pascal Seaccom is like a budding star. Really, really, really scary team that is just firing on what other teams in the East would hope is all cylinders, but it's clearly not. I think they have another level. So your thought is that they have another level, that they're better than we've already seen. I think they have another level because Kauai can get better. Kauai can play better.

He's already, I mean, I think your percentage is probably in that right ballpark. Like he's already having a good year. It's just been a little inconsistent. The thing that has always killed them in the playoffs, right, is they're this team that comes at you so hard in the regular season, harder than most teams play, and that gets them to, you know, 50 or so wins. But then the playoffs come and who is the guy that's going to take them over the finish line? And now they have that guy in Kauai.

And by the time, you know, they get to the playoffs, assuming Kauai is still here and I think he should be, right? That they have that guy, they have that star, and he's not where he should be yet, but once he gets to 93%, 98%, it's a good percentage, 93 and change. Look out. Look out. I don't want that. I don't want that.

I like Toronto and I like the Raptors fans, even though they get after us. And by the way, Raptors fans, we're leading the podcast with the Raptors, so you should be excited about that. I don't want them to be any better because I'd prefer that the Sixers be the better team in these. I've got the Sixers. That's one of my five teams that I'll go through with you. me. I had a couple of different things that I wanted to go through, but since it's only one thought here, like I was initially going to get into Faults, I was going to talk about how Jimmy Butler has been integrated. Jimmy James. Wonderfully. KOC wrote a piece about how Joel M.M. B. is having an MVP season. I was going to do all those things. Fucking animal right now. Instead, I'm going to do J.J. Reddick for my one thought. J.J., can you maybe share the wealth? Because JJ, so what happened was after they beat the Memphis Grizzlies last night, we're recording this on a Monday. They beat the Memphis Grizzlies. And in his post-game press conference,

He was asked about Jimmy Butler, and he did the ringer proud by saying, like, hey, if you want to hear me talk more about Jimmy Butler, tune into the JJ Reddick podcast later in the week. Fucking fantastic. However, here's my thing. He's obviously aiming for another employee of the month award. He's already got a couple of them, right? Unbelievable. A ton of them. I'm saying share the wealth.

He's handsome. He's rich. He's got a fantastic family. He's a great NBA player. I'm saying, like, maybe Jason Concepcion could be employee of the month. Maybe Isaac Lee could be employee of the month. Vince Carlin. Carter, new podcaster Vince Carter could be.

Vince Carter hasn't even been here a month. He needs to be here a month. He'll be here a month and then he'll get it. But JJ doesn't, he's got it in a stranglehold. I'm saying pass the ball a little bit. I like it. That's a great, great take. He's great.

My next team is the Pistons. Dwayne Casey is good. That's it. Dwayne Casey is a good coach. And when have we ever seen a parting of the ways in this way? I mean, he's good. Yeah. He's a solid coach.

I like him fine. Well, he's very good for what, for, What the Pistons have been doing over the course of the last few seasons. And it's just you rarely see a parting of the ways work out for both parties in such a way. And it really appears to have the Raptors, of course, just mentioned, are absolutely cruising. And Dwayne Casey has the Pistons looking like a surprisingly potent team. Again, good minutes at a drummond. Blake is reminding everybody that he was once a top five MVP candidate.

And they're playing well. Blake looks great. The team looks good. They're in fourth place as we record this solidly in the playoff picture in the Eastern Conference. Ahead of the Indiana Pacers just behind the Philadelphia 76ers. Who else are they ahead of? They're ahead of the Pacers. The Celtics?

Oh! They're ahead of the Celtics? I thought they were the deepest team in the NBA. Whatever? The Celtics, they're playing better. All of a sudden. Yeah, the three wins on a trot. Be careful.

I know. I don't want to poke them too much. The Hornets, the Magic. I mean, yeah, the Pistons. I wonder, though, like, this is obviously. Obviously for the Pistons, super, super dependent on Blake being healthy and like shooting the three and like being good. Right now all things are great for Blake. Like I just like I'm, I watch him through my fingers, right?

I put my hands over my face and I watch him through my fingers because I'm waiting for the other shooter drop with him. It always does. Yeah, that's that is the thing. But, you know, there's just less trouble you can get into in Detroit. I'm just making stuff up now. Sure. I guess like he broke his hand in Toronto. Who goes out?

Which is also a cold city. Oh yeah. He did that. That was in Toronto. Yeah, but that guy's gone now. As long as he doesn't see that guy's face. I mean, his hand's going to be fine. What's my next team?

I got the bucks. I got the bucks. The bucks are very good, but here's my thought. This holiday season, if you're going to have just one nutcracker, make it Janus onto Tocompo. Oh, my gosh. Who threatened to punch your boy. That was unfortunate.

Mario Hazzonia, and the nuts next time he sees him. I'm here for this. The most impactful two points scored ever. It was amazing. Zonia stepped through dunk on Janus and dunked on him so hard that Janus fell down and then apparently threatened Mario with violence the next time should that happen. To his area. To an area.

He's going to punch him right in the nuts, he said. Can I get it? Adam Silver, where is no fine? Does he get a fine for that? Nothing. You could just threaten violence on the manly parts of players in the NBA now. and that's just fine. Nothing happens, Adam Silver.

I think it's amazing. I love Mario Hizonia feeling himself a little bit and being in New York. I've always loved Mario Hizonia from the moment where he said let Messi come see me. That was unbelievable. And now he's really like he's just out there doing shit in New York. I want it. I mean, listen, again, two points and he's talking his shit. Marizzoa, I should mention, is bad.

He's terrible. But I really enjoyed this from him And, you know, shouts to him for just having that kind of swag To just brag on literally two points His only two points of the game They were great two points And again, and that's why I brought it up. Shouts to Yonis for getting a little spicy.

I like it. We don't generally get this out of Yonis. I want more from Yonis on that front. Let's see, my team, Indiana Pacers. You got the Pacers. 13 and 10, about where we thought they'd be. They lost to Sack last game, the surprising Sacramento.

Thanks. Subonis, I think, is really the thing that's... Has been better. Better than Miles Turner. He's been a guy. It's really popped for me. Miles Turner, quite disappointing. But Subonis is just an impact guy. Every time he's in, I don't know when the last time I've seen him miss a shot is.

I don't, you know, it's like, I watch the Pacers sporadically. But when I turn it on, it's like, oh, Subonis is six for seven again. Super efficient. Five for six again. Like, what is going on? And this is all, you know, without Ola D. really being able to contribute more than drinking a gallon of water on the bench. But can we take a quick pause here for an Oladipo aside?

He's busy. He's in the studio. He just pumped out his first album, V-O. I can't believe that that's his-you-listened to it. I will just say this. I can't believe that's his first album. I guess he's just been dropping singles before this. Did you listen to it?

I haven't listened to it. I listened to the whole thing. Wait. I listened to the whole thing. What's the best track on it? It's fucking amazing. There's a lot of talk about love, you know, exploring love. He's got a track called Just In You and Funny Thing About Love.

And he also talks a lot about sex. There's a song called, What is Just In You about? Is that about sex? A lot of them are. Lights on, he promises to, and apologies here, this is, if you've got kids in the car, take him out of the car, he promises to make it rain on that pussy. But my, there's another song called Forward where he talks about baby like a night limousine, I could fuck you all night long.

I don't know what that means, but it's just like eight tracks of him singing a lot about sex and love. You know, there's not a lot of people doing this. This is a space that needs to be mined for content. I'm glad that Vio Victor Oladipo is doing this. I'm excited about it. I am long been an avid, officinado of NBA players turned rappers, musicians, singers. So, like, from like Alan Iverson when he wanted to be Jules to Shows.

Oh my God. Right? Like you got Dame Dala. Here's V-O. Right. On Justin You. This is from billboard.com's interview with Victor where he talks about it. He breaks out every song on his album.

Yeah. I think Justin You is more so for the ladies because I feel like they can relate to it. It's really just telling them that we're really into you when we're in a relationship. In order for me to love you, you have to teach me how to. I got to say my interpretation of his songs was slightly different. But I think it's not. It is super X-rated that album. I'll just say that Justin U seems quite direct.

There's not a metaphor there. No, no, there is very explicit content in this album. Well, shouts to Victor Oladipo. Shouts to Victor Oladipo. I hope to see you impacting Justin the court soon. It's really fantastic. You've got to listen to it. It's perfect for desktop.

I've got Hornets. I've got a question for my thought. Can Kemba be the best player on a playoff contender? Because he's having a killer season, and I just wonder if he's good enough to elevate an entire team, because so far we don't have any evidence of that. On a playoff, you mean a team that is solidly in the playoffs, like, say, a four or five, but not like an Eastern Conference. Yeah, like in the same way that the Pistons are buoyed this year by Blake. Yeah, I think.

Or that Ola Depot elevated the Pacers. Right now you've got the Hornets. They're a game under 500, but they would be in the playoff mix. But is Kemba good enough to really elevate them? I think so, but it's an issue of team construction at that point. I think about Dan Devine's article about the Clippers recently where he just pointed out they don't have a bad guy. If Kemba was the best guy on a team of players who were just all not bad. If he was the Tobias Harris on the Clippers, yeah.

He would surely be the best player on a playoff contender. I think every time I watch him, I'm like, man, I wish he had a good teammate. I wish he had good teammates. I just wish that it wasn't, you know, like Kaminsky and stuff that he was thrown. Like I want to see them play Bridges more. Yeah. They just looks like. At the beginning of the year, they thought it looked like.

they were going to play Monk. And then he's fallen completely out of the rotation. But yeah, you're right. They've got like Frank Kaminsky and like one of the 12 Zellers. The Zellers and the Plumlies like keep multiplying. They're like Magwa. You can't feed them after midnight. But like, what I'm full.

Thank you. I appreciate it. But the rest of the team, I'm like, like Nick Batum. I used to love Nick Batum and he's not really a thing anymore. Nick Batum is a prime example of what happens when you earn yourself a A defensive reputation. A defensive reputation is great because it just never fades away. Yeah.

It never goes away. When you are unable to score anymore, you get maybe a season and a half of everybody giving you a pass. Being like, oh, he's, you know, the slump, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. But when you can't defend anymore, that just goes for years. Yeah. People to the end of Kobe's career were still saying that he was one of the best defensive players in the year in the league. And I think that's the case with Batum.

He was such a versatile player for so long. And now it's gone, but there's still that kind of cachet, and especially because he's in a small market where people don't really get to see him on a daily basis. He's still able to carry that reputation of, oh, Nick Batum, that very versatile, good player. I would like to see the Nick Batum from Portland with Kemba. I would like to see, you know, Bridges play more and play well.

and like, yeah, surrounding Kemba with guys that we could get a real sense of okay, this is what he could actually do because so far we haven't seen it. And it's great. And also, we just don't have a lot of players like him in the league. You know, there used to be a lot of

kind of these combo score-first perimeter guys who did it on the drive. And now it's really, Kemba, Kyrie, and... Yeah, like who are your creators? Who are your creators? Who are your... I'm going to take it all on myself, little guys.

You don't see those anymore. And he's really a throwback player and really, really fun to watch. He's also, like, a lot better than I thought he would be coming out of college. Yeah, for sure. I liked him in college. I didn't think it would translate.

I thought he was too small and, like, it wouldn't work out, and it's worked out great. All right, your next team. New Jersey Nets, excuse me, the Brooklyn Nets. Yeah, I gave you both New York teams. Listen, I'll say this. It's annoying to me that the Nets

seemed to be putting it together. And... Why? Do you care, though? Like, I know that you're supposed to care. But, like, do you actually care? I don't care. I've gone to Nets games.

They have been. good food in the concessions. It's a beautiful arena. It is a great. I like the way that the light comes in from the one end. The acoustics are great. The acoustics are great. Wonderful place.

Easy to get to. Easy to get to. Parking terrible. Right, but public transport. Public transpos is there. There's a target there. Yeah. You know, there's a mall right across the street.

All that is great. When you say they're putting it together, what are they putting together? They lost six in a row. I know, but they have, you know, LaVird is a good player who, like him. Very happy to see that the, that we all watched is not as serious as we initially thought it was. For sure. Which is great, especially for a guy who's had such a history with injuries and was really,

really going to another level as a player in the league. Jared Allen is a great piece. Jared Allen, who quickly becoming like a personal favorite. There's a profile of him recently by Kelly Whiteson in New York Times about how he just loves math. Yeah, I saw us. He's just a math guy. He's like going to schools and giving the kids calculators and then taking them out to stores and be like, okay, buy $100 worth groceries and budget it and tell me what you can get for $100, what's like the most balanced kind of good stuff that you can get for

$100, just seems like a really cool guy. Shades of Andrew Bynum and the way he talked about like putting together computers and stuff. Yeah. But hopefully without the the fragility that Bynum also had. Andrew Bynum, remember at the beginning of the season when he was supposedly working on a comeback? What happened to Bynum? We need to get somebody into the Bynum camp. Like yesterday. He's out there bowling, salsa dancing. Putting the latest graphics card in his top of the line alien wear PC so he can play video games. Do you remember after he got bounced out of the league where he just showed up at a Cavs game and he was drinking a tall boy?

Drinking a tall boy and wearing like moccasins and showing his ankles that were extremely ashy. It was not great. If I may be so bold. Yes. Andrew Bynum, come on NBA desktop. Please. Let's talk about video games. What do you play it?

I want this. What's in your steam folder? I need to see him on desktop. Anyway, Jared Allen is really fun. The nets are fun, even though they're losing. Same record as the next, which we'll get to in a second. That's fine. I've got the magic.

This is going to be number one in my three-part, Mayaculpator, at the beginning of the NBA season. At the back end of He Check, we did something called NBA Sadface. And that was with Kevin Clark and Riley McAtee and our own Isaac Lee, where it was basically like their three favorite franchises, the Kings, the Magic. And the Clippers have been very. historically sad facie. The magic, less sad facie this year. Kevin Clark, very excited.

He tweeted out, and I clipped it off and I saved it, that he was excited for the magic to make the playoffs this season. They're right there. They're the number eight team in the Eastern Conference. Nicola Vucevich has been excellent. They still don't have a point guard. Terrence Ross has been resurrected. I have no idea how it's working, but it is fine.

I'm glad you pointed that out because you just feel like at some point this will come to Earth, right? Remember last year when they started off super hot because they were shooting the lights out. Yeah. This can't continue. Right? Terence Ross cannot continue to be instant offense. Instant offense from everywhere. And they can't

continue to be doing this with like a point guard by committee thing going on. It just can't continue to happen. Nick, here's the other thing I was thinking about this. Vucevich! Busevich is a killer and it's just, I can't decide if it's good or bad for the organization because on one

hand, if you're the magic, you want to, you probably want to make the playoffs because you haven't done that in a while show that you're relevant and whatnot. However, Vucevich being good this year and getting them just above the playoff line has a counteracting element to it, which is that it keeps Mobamba from actually playing significant minutes and developing. So he's just good enough to make them just good enough to kind of stunt the growth of the guys you want to grow. It's a problem that all teams who are trying to develop young players have, much like my New York Knicks. Your Knicks, your last team.

I just want to say this for all the haters out there who are trying to undermine the Nick's nascent player development year. It's a player development year. And now all of a sudden, he's like, oh, guess what? 19-year-olds kind of suck a little bit. 20-year-old players kind of don't know what to do. That's right. They don't know what to do. They need to learn how to play.

So let them learn. Also, for all the people out there, oh, Knicks are extremely disappointed. and Frank Milikina, but also the Phoenix Suns and the Brooklyn Nets are interested in him. You can't on the one hand go, this guy sucks. The Knicks are super disappointed in him, but also all these other teams on the upswing are interested in acquiring this player. Do you not see the disconnect? I'm not saying that it's good when Frank Nilakina puts up bagels and then gets a DNPCD.

That's unfortunate. But this is what happens. It's the growing pains. and you just have to let it happen. Malik Monk is out here shitting on the ground and nobody talks about him. Nobody. This is a Joe House-level rant.

Like an all-timer for this season. That's one in one-A on heat check so far this season. That's all I have to say. I have questions. Let them develop. I have questions about the development. Do you not find the rotation's curious? Sure.

What's Fizz doing? Because he goes and he goes, okay, you've got Frankie, right? Franklin. You got Franklin smokes. Your guy. I'm calling him Franklin full name because he's playing pearly at the moment. I like Frankie. Has not looked good this year.

No. Instead, you're rotating it. Emmanuel Mutei. Who's getting a lot of time. Okay. And then at the beginning of the year, it was Mitchell Robinson's going to go to the G League. Then it was, oh, wait, we really like what Mitchell Robinson. He's going to start.

And then it was, oh, no, never mind. We're going to bring him off the bench and not play him like his game log. Last couple of games, 20 minutes, 17 minutes, 17 minutes, 13 minutes, nine minutes. explain these rotations to me well Mitchell Robinson a lot of it has to do with the fact that he's a foul lord and that he'll foul you coming into the arena he'll foul anyone

the rest of it which I love about him you know the rest of it is like they've got a guard glut they've got a trailer they just running out there shooting up shots they've got a lot of players Dotson Dotson who racked up DnPCDs and came in and had a good game last game Moodye A

your man Mudi A No, let me just say one thing about Moodye, please. A lot of Knicks fans are saying, the Knicks can't tank correctly with the hell, Moodye, watch that game that they played this weekend and watch his shots. A lot of them are circus numbers and they're just going in. That's just the thing that happens sometimes. Emmanuel Moodye...

You expect regression. You expect regression from Emmanuel Moodye. He was just driving into two dudes and throwing up the ball and it just kind of like went off the backboard and would roll in. And that happened like three or four times. That's just the thing that happens. The rotations are weird. I don't know if we're tanking or what we're doing, but...

Twas ever thus. T'was ever thus. I will say that when Fitz came out in the wake of the various reports saying that the Nix were unhappy with the development of Kevin Knox and Frank Nalkeena, Fitz came out and really heartily defended his guys, noting how young they are, noting that it's a developmental year and that both of them are dedicated to coming out and proving their doubt is wrong. thought that was the right thing to do.

I have some qualms about the rotations, but I think overall, I can't complain that much. I would like Frank to play better, and hopefully this spurs them on to play better. Look, the Knicks have some interesting pieces that they can maneuver around. I think maybe these rotations are designed to make them worse

than they've played, because, like, you said, Nudier is, like, throwing up these crazy shots that are going in. All I'm saying is, you don't have Porzengis. This should be a full-on tank. I agree. There's no way that they should be in the heat wizard's nets

mix. They should be down much lower with the bowls and the calves in the hos. Here's another problem with tanking. Nobody wants to come out and say it. Nobody around the team can come out and say, oh, we're developing our young. Just say, use a euphemism. Where we're trusted, like, you know, look at what

Hinky did with the, and the Sixers. We have a process and we're trusting the process, and that's a euphemism for we're going to tank. Just come out with a euphemism, whatever euphemism we're going to do, and just do it. But the issue is, New York media, especially, they even knowing that tanking is a legitimate tactic in the league in order to obtain a high draft

pick and stock your roster with hopefully good players on the cheap, even understanding that New York beat reporters act like every loss is a travesty and the worst thing that's ever happened. You know, it's like, oh my, this is disgusting and it's shameful. How can this be allowed to happen players playing poorly Frank Millikina not scoring? It's like, yeah, I wish he'd scored too, but guess what? We should be losing. Good.

Lose more. Do they have any pride? Yes. Do you? When will wins matter again in New York City? I love that. I love that about New York because they actually care. My last team before we let you go because you have a lot of things to do.

I don't think they do care. The Washington Wizards and I fucking love them for it. Here's my thought. Ernie Grunfeld GM for life. Just make it official. Has he not been doing it? Just make it official. Make it like a Supreme Court appoint.

appointment where you are, he's going to be Ruth Bader Kingsburg and he's going to be having like green juices and he's going to be doing his exercises well into his 90s and they will never get him out of there. Like John Wall, like cursing out Scott Brooks and Bradley Beale saying that I thought that we had figured it out but then all of a sudden we've regressed lately and you know all the stuff that's going on with Dwight.

Now Dwight's probably out for a while and this team like they've got three guys who should make them good just by virtue of them being on the court together in Otto Porter, John Wall, and Bradley Beale, and they are not. And guess what? Like, Ernie Grunfeld saying that he's going to move everybody. What is he done? What is he done?

This. What is he ever done? He's given a lot of money to players who hate each other. Like, that John Wall contract, where he's supposed to get $46 million in change in the last year. That is unbelievable. It has a 15% trade kicker. The trade kicker, so this was on ESPN recently. Bobby Marks wrote a story about this.

The trade kicker, I actually sat back and, like, like was like, whoa. I mean, that's like something you read from like some kind of illicit stock swindle or something. Like it doesn't seem real. Yeah. 15% trade kicker on 40 plus million dollars. It's an amazing.

They'll never get rid of John Wall. Nobody will ever take that contract. That's like, you can't, you literally can't move him. So Ernie Grunfeld. Unbelievable. I know that House and probably Sharp shouts to Andrew Sharp and all of our wizard's friends probably want him gone. I want him there forever.

It's so much fun, and I'm really enjoying that. They've never won 50 games. No. The Wizards have never won 50 games in Ernie Grunfeld's tenure as GM. Oh, it goes back beyond that. You know, it's been 40 years,

40 years since they've won 50 games. It's unbelievable. It's incredible. That's what I'm saying. It's like... I think he has a compromat. I think he has a P-Tape. I think he had his Elinosis P-Tape.

He's shooting the moon. It's like in hearts. You can't do this. It's the opposite. It's like, if you try. to do it. You couldn't do it, and he's doing it, and bless Ernie Grunfeld. That's our first 10 teams. You should listen to him on binge mode. You should watch him on NBA desktop. What else? Anything else you want to promote? The ringer.com. It's a great website.

It's an excellent website. You can read him there as well as Jason Concepcio and you killed it. Yeah. All right. That was Jason. We love when he's on the program. He's always excellent. Before we get to KOC, a quick word from our sponsors. Today's heat check is brought to you by Zoom. Video conferencing has changed the way we do business, fewer long-distance trips, and more FaceTime at the click of a mouse, and in 2018, the clear winner is Zoom. Zoom delivers flawless video, pin drop, clear audio, and instant sharing across any device, desktop, laptop, tablet, mobile. Share anything with anyone, a word file, a spreadsheet, a presentation deck.

Zoom is everything you always wanted video communication to be with some amazing features you didn't think of, but you'll wonder how you live without them. Visit zoom.us to set up your free account today. That's zoom. dot us, meet happy with Zoom video communications. And now back to Hecheck. All right, joining me in the studio from The Mismatch from Corner 3 from Theringer.com, staff writer extraordinaire, Kevin O'Connor.

You haven't been on Heechak in a while. It's been too long. It's been a minute gone. That's because you do like 47 other NBA podcasts. I think you're on. Am I banned from this show too? No, you would never be banned from Heechek. You are still, I believe, banned from the rights to Ricky Sanchez.

Shouts to Ricky. Never heard of it. We're going to continue our 30 thoughts on. 30 teams. You go first with your first team. Well, first up, I have on my list here is the Boston Celtics. The Boston Celtics. Not that good, but lately, lately, but lately lately.

Much better lately. Especially on Saturday night, Gordon Hayward. Gordon Hayward. His best game of the season, he had 30 points, nine assists, eight rebounds, and 30 points are nice, right? Cool. He looked good. But a lot of them were just spot up jumpers.

He attacked Andrew Wiggins once, who was totally out of positions. What was most impressive on Saturday and all season has been. been his playmaking. Like he makes some seriously high degree of difficulty passes. Cross court passes when he's off balance falling away and they're just darts right on target and watching him gets progressively better over the course of the season, especially Saturday night, you're starting to see where his playmaking is going to make the world of difference for that team come playoff time if his scoring keeps getting better by that point

because he alleviates pressure off Kyrie and he's better than Marcus Smart and Terry Rosary at playmaking. He's already the best passer on. the team right now. He came off the bench in that one, right? Yep. Six man in the air. So how do you feel about that? Like, do you think that that's a better look for them where it's like, all right, he didn't look good at the beginning of the year? And they were sort of forcing him into that lineup. And he was trying to, obviously, it's going to take some time for him to knock off the rust from the injury, to feel good about himself. It looked like

he was still hesitant in terms of like being able to take contact and really going full speed like we used to see with Gordon Hayward. So now I think, like, playing him with that second unit it might alleviate some of those problems. For sure. I think it makes sense. It just makes sense for this team to have the Marcus's, Marcus Morris, and Marcus Smart in the starting five. They got that dog in them.

Yeah. Maybe that changes at some point during the year, but I think staggering Kyrie and Gordon Hayward just makes sense logically. And I think it doesn't really matter who starts as much. I mean, Brad Stevens has talked about that before, but... That's who you're closing with. Right. Who's your main five? For sure. At this point, and I sometimes

wish Gons that, like, when we talk about... October of NBA, we talked about finishers. Like, who are the guys you want to finish games? More so than start us, because starting doesn't matter. Right, right. Mark out full start this year. He did. He doesn't start anymore. We already did this.

Sorry to bring that out. Right, rub salt in the wound. It just doesn't matter. It's about finishing. That's what matters most. I liked it better when the saltics were bad and confused, and I hope that they revert to form, but Brad Stevens probably going to figure it out.

All right, my first team is the Bulls. Bulls. They fired their coach today. The Bulls fired their coach. I'm going to do a continuation of what we had at the top of the show. Why? Shoulder shrug, question mark? If they're trying to lose and tank, they're already doing a pretty good job of it, right?

I mean, like, they're 5 and 19 as we record this. They've got as many losses as anybody in the league, the same number of losses as the Phoenix Suns. Fred Horberg was doing a fine job of tanking. I think, and what I said to Isaac. Maybe it could be better. That's something I'm going to say later for another team. Well, I said to Isaac that I think that they think that they should be better, which why? Yeah.

I texted a couple of executives this morning, like, why? What's the timing here? Right. And the common response from a couple of them was this. Well, with Lari Markening coming back. Marking him back, done back eventually. Portis got hurt. They had some guys out.

Well, maybe with Lurie back, maybe they start winning a couple of games, and then it's harder to fire the coach then if that's something you want to do anyway. So do it now before Lorry gets back into, you know, 90% of what he was last year, then eventually 100%. and then hopefully better than he was last year. Then maybe you start winning games, and then development is obvious, because development has occurred for some of the young players,

including Lorry last year. Wendell Carter this year. I love Wendell Carter. I mean, they have a lot of solid-ish reserves, reserve quality players on their team. I don't think Hoareberg's a bad coach. So what you're saying, what I'm hearing you say from talking to executives,

is that you want to do it now so that you don't get prevented from doing it later, which indicates me that they wanted him to go. They did. But if so, if they wanted him to, to go, like, I don't know. Why did you even bring it back this year? I don't know. I don't understand that. Strange timing. I really don't. It's very odd timing. And I think Horiburg, in the right situation, could be a good coach. All right, your next one. Next up, the Miami Heat,

there's one thing that sticks in my mind when I watch this team. And it's just this Winslow. And the reason why I used to love him. Not anymore? You're out. That's part of the conversation here. breaking news here. Like Winslow shoots 46.3% in the restricted area, 29% from mid-range, 32.7% from 3. These are bad numbers. He's scoring 0.69 points per possession

in the half court according to synergy, and that's not nice. It's gross. It's a very gross, filthy. Not the good kind of filthy. Not the cool kind. It's worse than Frank Nilakina, worse than Draymar Green, worse than Josh Sachs,

and worse than Markle Fultz, worse than Super Mario Hizonia. Winslow stinks. On offense. Tell me that you're out on him now. Well, here's the thing, right? When I watch him play, I'm thinking about how much I loved him pre-draft. I had him ranked second for some time in the pre-draft process.

I think about how the Celtics offered four first-round picks to the Hornets to take Winslow at the ninth pick. And Michael Jordan said no. No, because I had to get Frank Kaczynski. And I think about how different the league would be if that trade were accepted, right? You would have a situation where the Celtics draft wins low, the Hornets lose out on Frank the tank. Oh, no. Right, but they have all those picks. Yes, and they have all those picks, and then maybe the heat draft like Devin Booker or something like that.

Just to think about how one decision could have changed everything in the league. And I think about that every time I watch Justice Winsle just fail on offense and do pretty good on defense though. Are you out, though? I'm pinning you down. You're out. You're out. On offense, I'm out. Defense, he's still solid and his passing is pretty solid too. But his offense is really bad, dude.

It's really, really, really bad. I like that you were whispering about it. I also like that you broke that news on heat check and not the mismatch. Because that's where you come to break news. You come to heat check. You do the other shit on whatever that's done the mismatch. You come to break news here. My next one is, who do I have here?

I've got the calves. I like that. I don't have a lot of, sure, okay. I don't have a lot of thoughts on the calves beyond this. I want to say, congrats to Kyle Corver on his prison break. Getting out of there and going to Utah. Much better spot for Kyle Corver. 37 years old, you do not need to be on a rebuilding bad Cavs team that already

fired their head coach and is going nowhere fast. Good for him on getting out. I'm happy for Kyle Corver. He's a good dude. He's a way underrated player for his career. He's had an excellent career. And actually he's perfect for the jazz. So I'm glad for him that he's gone out. The 14th ranked team in the west, the Utah Jazz. Is that amazing?

It's crazy. It's crazy. But I'm happy that he went out there. So that's my cabs thought. Your next team, we're going to finish off the Eastern Conference with your last team. The Atlanta Hawks. Their offense ranks last. Their defense, ranks 19th. Their team sucks. They're horrible. Yes, this is true. And that's a good thing, though. That's a good thing, right?

But they've got to be worse, right? Because wins are losses for this team and losses are wins. They're already pretty bad. They're really bad, but they can be worse. And see, here's why. Here's why, guys, when I watch these bad teams, like you mentioned, Cleveland, Chicago, Atlanta, I'm looking at the draft odds. And sure, this year, with the flattened odds, the three worst teams have a 15% odds at the number one pick. But having the worst pick is still an advantage because if you have the first pick,

the worst you can pick is fifth. If you have the third worst record, the worst you can pick is seventh. So there's still an advantage to being the worst team in the league. Just because the odds are 14% doesn't change the fact that being the worst is still better for that situation. So in that Hawks, Bulls, Cavs, Sons Convo.

They're all on pace to win below 20 games. But I'm saying like, but where do you think the Hawks fall in that race to the bottom. Although the Bulls evidently have designs on being good. Who knows?

Phoenix is the toughest conference, of course, right? So I think that makes them the worst, but they also have the best player on those four teams, right? Right? You know, with Devin Booker and depending on what happens

with Kevin Love. But in the Eastern Conference at least, boy, oh my God, all three of those teams are horrible. Why? Who's the worst of those three? I don't think Chicago because of Lowry Mark.

I think Chicago has some talent. Yeah, they do. I really... I think that's the Cavs and the Hawks. The Cavs and the Hawks are really bad. Between them, I think Cleveland's probably a little bit worse, but that's why Atlanta's going to try being worse, just a little bit harder. Try a little bit harder.

And in the interim, while we're waiting to find out whether or not they're going to be bad or much worse, as COC advocates, want to remind everybody to listen to the newest podcast, winging it with Vince Carter and Camp Beesmore, right here on the Ringer Podcasting Network. We're expanding our podcast empire. The first episode came out today. Drop today. Make sure to listen to it after you listen to this.

All right, that cleans up everybody in the Eastern Conference. We're going to move to the Western Conference. I've got the Denver Nuggets to start. Here we go. KOC, like, they're just good. They're really, like, they don't have Will Barton right now. And I think, like, when they add him back in and people sleep on Will Barton, but he's like, he's another piece that they're going to add into this.

They're in a deep sleep for Will Barton. Yeah. I mean, like, they have, they have a team right now in the same way and we'll get to the Clippers, Isaac, just wait a minute. They have a team where I look at them and I go, like, they're just a professional good quality basketball team. They've obviously got a killer in Nicola Yokic who defensively he has his lapses

but offensively is just a virtuoso as a passer. He's one of the greatest passing big men. And I just look at them and I go ever. They are legit. I expect them at the end of the year to be in that one, two, three top tier of the Western Conference. You know the funny thing is with Yokic, it's his three point shot isn't falling right now. No, it's not. I mean, even he can be better. You know, already

this season, he's obviously passing the hell out of the ball and he rebounds like a maniac, but he's shooting only 31.6% from three, and, you know, that's closer to his numbers in his rookie year and sophomore season, but last year I thought he made a leap 39.6%. I'm curious to see if he returns to that level from last year or if this is just who he's going to be this year.

But either way, he's amazing. Amazing. I got the Golden State Warriors Gons. And with this team, it's just interesting watching their post-ups. You know, the Warriors have never ranked in the top half of the league in post-scoring. once during the Steve Kerr era, but they use it a lot for playmaking. And this is something I wrote about in my column last week on the ringer,

and Ethan Sherwood-Strauss wrote about it on the athletic. Because with this team, it's weird because, like, whether it's Draymond Green or Jordan Bell, and especially Kevin Durant, sometimes they throw the ball with the posts, and the guy doesn't even look to score. Yeah. He's just, like, surveying the floor looking for a three-four shooter. For other opportunities. Yeah.

It's really interesting. And I wonder how... It said, how much of that is system, like, established systems? because that's the way they play. But then also there's a personnel component to it too, right? Because the bigs that they have, and I'm not using Dremont as a big here. But the other bags that they have have not been good. Kavanaugh and Bell and those guys, like they haven't been good.

They haven't been useful. Absolutely. I think that's certainly part of it where those guys may be actually better pastors and scores. And I think a lot of it is just the nature of the league. Another team, I remember a couple years ago, Brad Stevens talked about using Evan Turner like that. Right. It's a source for playmaking, not a source for. scoring, right? Marcus Smart is used the same way now, just in that role. Now, Gordon Hayward as well,

like we talked about earlier. And I wonder how when DeMarcus Cousins comes back, he's a guy who, over his career, can pass the ball. He's had good assist numbers, but he's a score-first guy, like an aggressive score-first guy. And I wonder how this clash of styles works out. How will Boogie adapt to this Golden State style of play where it's pass first from the post, not score-first? I think if we know anything about Boogie, it's that he's just going to get along great. He's so accommodating. He's going to accommodate them, and it's going to be kumbaya. They're going to have a great time.

The Warriors are already having a fantastic season chemistry-wise, and that will continue. It could work really well, though, because Boogie can pass. He can pass. He can pass. I'm excited to see how that works. I am too, actually. All right, my next team is the Clippers. As I mentioned earlier with the Magic Mea Culpah on not believing in the Clippers,

but I want to see, I don't have a thought here. I want to cede the floor to the gentleman from Los Angeles, Isaac Lee, who will give us a thought on the Clippers. Hey, listen, they still have the best record in the West. I just want to start off the bat saying that they still hold the best record in the West a week after they have obtained it from the Golden State Warriors. And they are tied at first with the Nuggets, tied for second best in the whole league, tied with the Bucks and the Nuggets right underneath the Raptors. And all I care about, honestly, though, is that they're better than the Lakers for now. This is a good season for you.

I mean, however you slice it, like they lost to the Lucullus Mavs on Sunday night, which sucked. But on the road, these things happened. That was a DeAndre Jordan revenge game. Like, I'm not going to put too much stock into that. They have a road back-to-back tonight against the Pelicans, which is a schedule loss. So probably going to lose this one, probably going to fall a little. I'm not a delusional person. Like, I don't think that this team is, like, the greatest team assembled in history.

Like, if anything, their ceiling is the George Carl Nuggets team, or maybe the Budenholzer Hawks. like an overachieving regular season team that's not going to do much. They don't have a star we've talked about it a million times. Devine wrote about it. The rock solid team with no star. Corey McGettie last night, by the way, I don't know if you watch the broadcast, but Corey McGettie, who's a color commentator for the Clippers,

he tried to do this thing where he was like, Tobias Harris, a star is born, and tried to like push him as a star. He's not a star. I love Toby. He is this year though, Isaac. So far this season, on the ringer we're doing a thing where it's like the top 25 players just of this season. Yeah. Like only looking at this season.

So far this season. The ball is Harris belongs in the top 25. Yeah, in numbers. You look at the box score, you think he's a star, right? If you watch the games, I watch every... I think I've watched actually every single one of these games this year. I feel like Gallo has more of the star mentality. He wants the ball.

He wants his score. Same with Lou. Toby's kind of like a very, very, very good role player who's going to stuff the stats sheet. I don't know, man. He's killing and pick and roll. He's shooting the three like over 40% right out. He's very difficult to defend.

And I like him. And I've always thought that he was underrated. Now I think that he's getting some. Maybe that's why Isaac looks at it through a different prism. Like, if you're expecting it to be a star, and now you're probably expecting too much. But like, he's now exactly what you said, KOC. He deserves to be in that top 25 that we'll have later on in the ringer.

And I think he's properly rated now. People are waking up to the fact that Tobias Harris is good. I think I know what Isaac's trying to do. He's just trying to diminish Tobias Harris's value. Reverse curse. So maybe it's easier to sign him next summer when he's unrestricted free agent. He's going to get. I mean,

that's actually a crucial point that you're making is that he's in a contract year. He's playing for a big contract. He's 25. He's going to be good for at least the next five years, which he's going to get a big contract out of this year. And so are a lot of these players. We only, I believe, only have like four players in the payroll next year. We can like renounce every Bradley's contract.

We only have like. We only have Lou and Trez and. and Gallo and Shea By the way, Harold's had a great season. Oh my God, Dress has been incredible. He's been really good. It's funny with him,

like there wasn't a market for him this summer, which is why the contract was only two years, six million per. But I wonder if your team out there, it's like, geez, what, we missed on this guy.

I'd like to see him, I'd like to see him be better at the free throw line because he gets the line a ton and, you know, as Biggs go, he's okay, but I'd still like to see him

like closer to 70%. Follow, maybe he can replace DeAndre Jordan on the Mavs next year. Yeah, there you go. All right. Your last five for the Western Conference, KOSA. The Oklahoma City Thunder. And this is just really a general observation

that they have the number one defense in the NBA this year without Andre Robertson, their best defender. And it's because of a lot of the other guys they have. You know, obviously Stephen Adams and Paul George, they're star players, but their depth. Jeremy Grant has been outstanding. Hamadu Diallo, a rookie second round pick has been really good. Jeremy Grant really has been good, man.

Even two-way player, Deonté Barton. Even he's been pretty solid on defense. Like, they have done a good job of accumulating talent in places that you don't usually find it, and it's contributing early on for them. Where are you on Schroeder? I've liked him before the season. Like, I want to pat my own back for Schroeder after I got it wrong with Mello and with Dwight Howard. Yeah.

He's been really good for them. Yeah. I mean, I think Truder, at one point, maybe he was a little overrated, then he became underrated. Yeah. And now he's, you know, properly rated. Yeah, he's properly rated. He's showing what he is, and he's an inefficient scorer who sometimes lights it up. And when he tries on defense, he can be pretty solid on that end.

What do you make of Russ's three-point shooting deficiencies so far? Is it just like he's going to, I mean, like he's heathen and they're not going in really? I mean, he's shooting the way it feels like sometimes Russ haters see him. Yeah, right? I mean, he'll find his shot over time, but he's still never been a good shooter. He's just right now, he's just been really bad. So right now they're just a tick behind the Nuggets and the Clippers in the Western Conference, just a tick ahead of the Warriors.

Where do you see them falling ultimately? I wonder how much they can sustain this defense over the full season, despite everything I just said, right? I mean, for Paul George right now, so much of the responsibility is on him without Roberson. And then Diallo missed some time as well. I just wonder how long they can sustain this as their schedule gets harder in the coming months.

I don't want to say they've had an easy schedule because they're in the Western Conference, but they haven't had the most difficult schedule in the West yet. I wonder how much they sustain this over the duration of the season, but their defense is still going to be top 10. But it needs to be number one if their offense doesn't pick it up over the course of the year. I just love the Western Conference. There's so many teams that are in the mix.

We went through a bunch of them. My last one before we let you go for the Western Conference is a team that I've talked about quite a bit here at Heechak. The Memphis Grizzlies. Verna! Let me say something. Here's my thought on the Memphis Grizzlies. I'm going to give you not even just a thought. I'm going to give you one word.

Respect. As in we give them respect here at Heechek. But some other podcasts, let's say the mismatch. let's say the mismatch don't give them any respect at all and I want to know what it is that's going to take the mismatch to give the Memphis Grizzlies

the do that they deserve. They've been overlooked by Chris Vernon. They've been overlooked by Kevin O'Connor and their radical anti-Grisley's agenda. I want to know why you hate the Grizzlies, why you hate freedom. Jared Jackson's at the bus. Because here in each of, we have been on them

from the beginning. Isaac Lee and I were the original adopters of the Grizzlies of Jaron Jackson. Marcus Saul is having a career year. Triple J, baby. Mike Conley is killing it. The rest of the roster, I look at it and I go,

I can't believe that this is an NBA team beyond those three. And yet the Memphis Grizzlies, despite the fact that they just lost to the Philadelphia 76ers, have been killing it. You would drop that little nugget in there. They lost to the six years.

How about Marcusole, though, at age 33, having somewhat of a bounce back year now? Not somewhat, massive. He deserves to be in that 25 that you were talking about. He's having a killer season. I mean, he's playing at both ends of the floor. And Jaron Jackson,

I think the more I watch him, the more I think, like, Luca has gotten all the publicity for the rookie class this year, and rightly so. If Luca wasn't around if he had taken one more year and stayed in Europe, I think we'd be talking about Jaron Jackson a ton more. Because he's doing it. When he's not in foul trouble, he's a killer. Yeah. He's on both ends of the floor, too, right? It's very unusual to hear a rookie defend this well. Defend the rim and shoot threes.

Yeah. That's a very rare thing to find. I mean, I'm sure over the course of the time, he's the youngest player from this draft class, I believe. Still 19, right? He just turned 19 in September. The following will get better over time, as it does for most big men. He's a smart kid, a hardworking kid that should improve over time. Someone like him with the fourth pick, even Kyle Anderson, a signing that was kind of blasted or kind of, you know, chuckled at the summer.

He had a game the other week where he just really made the things hard on Kauai Leonard the entire game. He's been pretty good for them. Okay, they have three guys who have been good. And they have the rest of the team where I still don't understand it. I love it, but I don't understand it. Well, you're rounding out your starting five generally with like Garrett Temple, right? And like, you need minutes out of Brooks and these guys. And it's like, I don't understand the Grizzlies beyond their top three.

But ultimately, what it comes down to for the Grizzlies forever, and it's still true, is when Conley and Gasol are healthy and on the court, they're good. Are they going to make the playoffs, you think? Yes. Right now, they're two up on the Pelicans. If he checked, the Memphis Grizzlies, lock it in, they're going to make the playoffs. I want you to go back. You've got a run.

You've got things to do. You've got the mismatch tomorrow. I want you to go back to the mismatch tomorrow, and you tell Verno to start talking about the grislies. Start talking about the Grizzlies. He's Kevin O'Connor. You could read an excellent piece that he wrote about Joelle MBE's MVP caliber season on the ringer.com right now. What else you got coming out this week? Not sure yet, but we're going to figure that out soon.

He's got stuff all the time. He's on the mismatch. He's on Corner 3. He's Kevin O'Connor. Thanks for doing this. Thank you, Gons. All right, that was KOC. He was excellent.

We love him. We'll bring in yet another ringer staffer we love, Haley O'Shaughnessy. All right, joining me in the studio. Repeat offender here at Heat Check Staff writer, Haleo Shonnessy. You're a gamer. You came in specifically to do this podcast. We love that. We're going to round out the last 10 teams in the NBA are 30 thoughts on 30 teams.

Your first team and your first thought. Okay, the first team I want to talk about is the Rockets. Hit me. Okay. I have a theory. Do you remember like a couple years ago? I think it was 2016, 17 at the beginning of the season. There was that Nets picture tweeted out from their media day.

And it was like the Nets reserves. Sure. And no, no, you couldn't identify any of them. Yeah. That's kind of what I feel like the Rockets Bench has turned into a little bit at this point. I love this take. So that's basically my one thought on them, how Gary Clark, Isaiah Hart and Seen. Michael Carter Williams?

That's the guy we wish we didn't know. Like, that's, well, that's true. I mean, like... It's like a resurrection of past guys and a whole bunch of new guys. I love Darrell Morey. I think he's one of the great GMs in the NBA. If he wasn't my first pick, he'd probably be my second if I was taking a general manager to start a team with right now.

And I know that he was hamstrung by, like, the salary cap and you had to pay Chris Paul in the offseason and whatnot. And, like, you got Mel on a dirt cheap contract. You didn't have to pay Chris Paul. Well, okay, but you were going to. Sure. He brought him in and, like, that's the plan. Yeah.

That's the plan. The roster is really kind of weird this year. Yeah, it's not. And the bench that you're mentioning right now is like example A. Yeah, it's a mess. I mean, like, Hardinstein playing that much every single time, like, Sean, you will be blowing up in the slack. Yeah.

Like, he still can't believe it. Shots to Sean U. And, like, this is, I mean, now, granted, like, Chris Paul has returned, but this is the team. Like, this is them. But I could see if any team making, like, a giant change before the deadline. I could see it being the Rockets. I think they need it a little bit.

a little boost. That would be good. All right, my first team with you is the Lakers. Here's my thought for the Lakers. They're about where I expected them to be, but my thought is a question. 14 and 9, 5th in the Western Conference. Yeah, that's about, like, at this point, it's about what I expected. That's fine. But here's my question, and it's a question I've had since the preseason, and it's a question that's lingered so far. Who's their second best player? Because I think, like, It's not Brandon Ingram. Well, we all expected it to be Brandon Ingram. And I think on On paper, it still should probably be Brandon Ingram, but it hasn't been in execution Brandon Ingram this year. Are you asking me?

So I'm the one who says Kyle Coosma and you don't say Kyle Guzma? As regularly as anybody else on the team this year, it's been Kyle Coosma. However, he's still Kyle Coosma. He has deficiencies. Exactly. So, like, I don't look at anybody on, like, there's been times when Lonzo's flashed as the second best player. There's been times at the beginning of the season, not so much lately, where Josh Hart looked like he could fill that role. But Brandon Ingram has very rarely looked like it.

And I think that that's a major concern for them that we still don't know. This is probably the sloppiest hierarchy we've seen LeBron in quite some time. Because even in Cleveland, there's always Kevin Love. Right. Yeah, that's a good point. He was always second. Even when he didn't play spectacularly well, he always had that. That next guy.

You knew what he was, and especially for the guys that we were expecting a lot out of this year, Lonzo, Ingram. We don't exactly know what they are yet. This is my NBA desktop spice take here. If we're going to strip the names away and the expectations away and talk about who's actually been the second best guy. It's been Javale McGee's been good this year. You're looking at me like I'm a crazy person.

And I am, but he has been good for that. Yeah, he has been good, but you can't rely on him as anything beyond the rim protector. Well, it's not even just that. No, it's not even just that. I just don't think that you can say that. It's like giving sample size awards to the guys with good stats who play like so few minutes. Granted, he is playing almost 25 minutes. Probably most minutes he's played in quite some time.

I'm not sure I have to check. But you can't say, like, oh, he's been their second best guy if he's only been playing, like, what, 25 minutes a game, 24 minutes a game? But that's yet again, it goes to my point. I mean, I think, like, if you ask LeBron this question, he would probably say Kuzma because the other night after they beat the Sons, he was saying, like, I'm always looking for Kuzma. And he'll tell you that. And I'm, okay, fine, that's good. Like, Kuzma's been. Oldheads love Kuzma.

Relatively good. You're an ageist, and we don't stand for that here at He-check. I love that he loves Kuzma. I just wonder how much he's actually going to get out of Kuzma long term. That's what I wonder. That's fair. So I looked at the minutes played just to see where Javail lines up, and he's seventh. Josh Hart plays more minutes on average.

Josh Hart should play more minutes. He should. All right, give me your next team. My next team is the Jazz. The Jazz have the offense. I thought that they were going to have at the beginning of last season. Okay. Like they have completely, not completely erased my memory, but it's like we just kind of like,

that's a rewind noise. So you didn't expect them to have much? I didn't think that they were going to carry over what they did last year 100%, but they are looking like exactly what I thought they were going to look like when Gordon Hayward left. Which is not great. Yeah, not great. Your guy, Don Mitchell. There's not many options on.

My guy, Don Mitchell. He checks Don Mitchell. I love him. Let me give me a little. Yeah. Hit me, hit me. Donovan Mitchell. is a career late season starter. He has slow starts.

He did it in college. And it's across the board, but mainly if you need to focus on shooting. I think he was especially slow last year. There was that one point, I remember that's always because Danny was editing one of my pieces and I was like shitting on Lonzo's shooting. Right.

I think it was like maybe about where we are right now into the season. And he was like, yeah, but you know, Donovan's shooting worse than Lonza right now. It's an eye opener. Yeah, I mean, and it's always been this way for him. and he's just too hard of a worker and, you know, he relies so much on, like, his physicality,

which is not going to just go away. That will come. And that's why also, I think that... They need it to, because if they don't... I think that they will be a much better team at the end of the season. But I just think that, like, the hangover expectations...

Yeah, right now, as we... Will not come through. As we record this, they're in that, Pelicans, Rockets, Kings, Spurs, Wolves, Jazz. They're all pretty much bunched up. Pelicans, Rockets, Kings. Spurs, wolves.

They all have 11 wins, which puts them second to last in the Western Conference ahead of the Phoenix Suns, who are just absolutely abysmal, as we expected. I think part of this is the Jazz have been on a really killer schedule lately. They've been traveling a ton. They've been on the road a ton. They've had really difficult opponents. I know that Powell wrote a piece saying that the Jazz haven't been good this year. I still am accounting for schedule and then also, as you mentioned, not shooting well. And they just incorporated Kyle Corver, who should give them some offense off the bench.

And I think ultimately Donovan Mitchell will look more like the Donovan Mitchell we saw last year when he was in the conversation for rookie of the year. Didn't win it because he didn't deserve to win it. His rookie of the year was in Philadelphia. He had a really good year. So, Isaac, is this door unlocked or can I just leave now? Just going out the window. She's going out the window already. All right, my next team.

I've got the Kings. I've got the Kings. This is the third part of my Mayacopa. I apologize for not believing in the Clippers. I apologize for not believing in the Orlando Magic. It was so weird. I just did this super long apology on group chat to the Memphis Grizzlies. We love the Grizzlies. We just did a whole thing about the Grizzlies. I was like actually sobbing a little. It was really sincere and heartfelt.

And that's what we like. You're very genuine. That's what we like about you. I didn't believe in the Kings. I'm not sure that I still believe in the Kings, but they're definitely better than I thought. I don't think this has to be an apology. I don't think anyone believed anything. I didn't think Riley knew that they were going to have this record. This is my thought, though, on the Kings. I love that the Kings have a little Wizards West to them in that. they're like, they're just slightly dysfunctional. The Wizards are super dysfunctional. The Kings are with the battle between Dave Yeager and assistant general manager, Brandon Williams, who he kicked out of practice last week.

He kicked out an assistant general manager, which generally, like, if you're trying to get fired, that's a good way to do it. And there's been rumors about whether or not the King's front office wants to get rid of Dave Yeager, but maybe they can't because they're playing too well. That's like if Sean Fantasy came in here and you were like, hey, I need you to get out. No, it would be like Chris or Jim. Juliet, right? Like one step down where I'd be like, hey, I know you're in the boss tier, but get out, right? Because I'm doing a podcast. That's madness. That's madness. Yeah, but what if the

podcast was going really well? It never does. There's never any danger of that. There's never any danger of that happening. This is why I love the Kings. Like, yes, it's been fun to watch Deeran Fox and their rotations are weird and fine. It's not even just fun. Like, it would have been fun if he was this guy last year. Now it's like, it's feel good. Like, it's almost rewarding. And rewarding might not be the right word because, like, I was not a fan of his last year. But it's nice to see somebody who we were... Could be the Kentucky Louisville thing. I don't know.

I'm going to get to the bottom of that. I get over it. I get over it pretty quickly. But that's not really why I'm digging that. It's nice to see a guy who had a really rough start now, like... Play better. Be able to play his way and play better. Yeah, and I'm happy for Riley in the whole bit.

But really, I just want them to keep at each other's throats because when the kings are weird, it's so much fun. All right, your next team. Okay, I have the spurs. So, like you just mentioned, dude, Will you run through that Western Conference glob again? It was the... Yes.

At the back of the pack with 11 wins is Rockets, King, Spurs, Wolves, Jazz. Okay. So out of that entire group, the Spurs have a lot of their same issues as those teams. They've been sliding downward there. You know, maybe they have offensive problems. They have a lot of injuries. I think that out of all of those, the Spurs, are the least likely to make a major change.

Not entirely that they won't make a trade. I'm not sure. But, I mean, their play style, which has been critiqued, a lot as a reason why they're losing is not going to change. Pop is not suddenly going to say, let's just double these three attempts that I've been resisting my entire career. I don't think that they're going to bring in some kind of reinforcements. I feel like, if anything, they're going to be the ones that the waiting game plays out on,

and hopefully they'll have some of their injured players back. I think that DeJante Mary being out has hurt them a lot more than anyone thought. But I just wonder, like, so we've always expected Spurs exceptionalism, right? Like, they've been good forever. I mean, they've been good for like almost... Yeah, there's that stout where it's like in the last, however many seasons, they've only been on a losing streak for like 55 days. Yeah.

It's insane. Like, but so what I wonder about the spurs is even if they, like, sure, Dejante Murray can help them. Well, no, but that's the thing is like now... What are we actually expecting out of the spurs? I think that that's the thing we may be, at the beginning of the season that was, we failed to realize is that Dejonte Murray does have to matter to them because he is their starting point guard.

They don't even have Tony Parker anymore. You know, like next up they have Patty Mills, who they need to fill other roles. Interestingly, they've been okay offensively. They are 10th in offensive rating. Defensively, they've been less good. They are 29th in the league, which gives them an upside-down point differential

and negative net rating. So that's really like, yeah, I'm with you and that their offense has been weird and they've been trying to carve out some sort of advantage in the margins by shooting, you know, twos and like operating that DeMarderose in the Marcus Aldridge mid-range game,

which is strange. But they've been okay offensive. defensively, they've been terrible. Yeah, yeah. I just wonder what we're going to get out of them. And the lesson of DeMar, because he has been playing well, is that maybe you shouldn't try to change a player. And that was what we learned with LMA last year.

You know, his pop was came in and he was like, I tried to change who he was as a player, and it didn't work. I don't think that those guys are changing. I think they're very set in their ways. I think this offense is going to be set in its ways. So I think if any team is going to be better, but we don't expect it down the line, because there aren't any major changes, any major roster shakeups or, you know, this guy's on the bench,

or all of a sudden, like, we are shooting a bunch of threes. I think it's the spurs. I like it. All right, my next one is the wolves. Here's my wolf's thought. Free Dario. Like, Tibs, what are you doing? You made a trade.

First of all, Robert Covington has looked absolutely excellent for them. And I would go Robert Covington greater than symbol Andrew Wiggins, not just for that team, but writ large. like Robert Covington is underrated. He's a good two-way player. He's better than Andrew Wiggins. He's been playing better than Andrew Wiggins. I love that he's, Tibbs' kind of player on that front. That's fine.

But the other guy in that trade, Dario Sarge is useful. And he's barely playing. Like, he's coming off the bench. He's playing 22 minutes. And that's it. Tibbs refuses to utilize him. And I don't understand why. Free my guy.

Critique Tom Tibito's minute management. It's weird. It's never been done before. Nobody's ever critiqued Tom. Libido for that. And it's also weird that I would seize upon a former Philadelphia 76er and advocate that he gets minutes. But Dario is a good player. And I thought like when he went there, yes, I know that Tibbs is like loath to ever use his bench. And like if he could only play five guys, it'd be like a video game where you'd like take off like fatigue. If you could only play five guys, he would do that forever.

But you've got a guy who can like be a playmaker who can knock down outside shots. Yes, he's slow a foot. But he's like a much better creator and passer than I think people realize. And He's wasting, like, he's wasting his talent. He's wasting my guy. Yeah, I know. There's other players, too. Like, Akogi is not playing as much as he should. Tias might be a lost cause at this point for us to, like, be mad at that.

But, yeah, I mean, it's just, he hasn't like to utilize different talents like that because he likes to do a super short rotation and grind people down until they are injured and go to other teams and then eventually come back to him. Haley O'Shaughnessy, here's his game log in the last five games. 20 minutes, 17 minutes, 18 minutes. He got all of 25 minutes. I guess Tibbs didn't realize it against the Bulls. And 16 minutes.

He's part of the reason you traded Jimmy Butler. Like, what are you doing? Right, right. I don't understand it. And also, if you want to keep him around, you might want to, like, put him in the game. All right, give me your next team. The Blazers. Blazers are in a rough skid, too.

Pretty rough. Their defense looks awful. So awful. Like so awful that I remembered last year And then I remember the season before And I was like, wait, why did I ever just so easily Forget the season before? Like their defense was terrible then

That was like the butt of every joke I made But they were good defensively last year And they've sort of, they've fallen off this season They're 21st in defensive rating It's really bad. Have you watched a... I love the Portland Trail Lagersers I watch them all the time.

They've lost two in a row and they've lost seven of their last 10 as we record this and you're right Like, shouts to the ring or curse, Powell did a piece about how, like, continuity is king with the blazers and, like, just keeping their core together has made them relevant again. And then they proceeded to slip from first to now seventh in the Western Conference. So we still got it, gang. But, yeah, their defense has not been good.

I will say that I really like their bench still. And I'm not giving up on them. I love Evan Turner. Anything Evan Turner related, I'm in on. Do you know how much he loves Christmas? Have you seen his Instagram? No, should I follow him on Instagram? Yes.

You should follow him everywhere because he's hilarious. But he goes crazy over the top for Christmas and puts up trees and gets decorations and the whole bit. So I'm on board with that. That's not over the top. It's like normal Christmas. No, like he does a lot on social media. He does videos and like he's wearing hats and festive sweaters and the whole bit. Right now I'm hearing like all mandatory Christmas things.

So I'll have to look into this. Look into it and tell me what level where he falls on the Christmas spectrum. As a Christmas advocate, I think he's in law. He's in the upper percentiles. All right, my next one here. I've got the sons. I was really excited about this, and I'm hopeful that it will continue

because Devin Booker just got hurt, and we'll see how badly, but it looked like he has a hamstring injury. Before that, he had a toe injury. He's constantly, like, dinged up. But when he's on the floor, I have really been on board with Point Booker. Like, let him run the show.

Kukashkov, forget about all the ancillary guards. Just let it be Devin Booker because it's way more fun. Yes, he's putting up maybe you might think like empty stats or empty calories in terms of like what it's actually contributing to their win loss total, which it's not contributing much to the wins. It's contributing quite a lot to the losses. But I love watching him just cook. Just let him go out there and cook. Let me ask you this.

What do you think it would take for that to be a serious switch? Like forever? For that to be like a hardened thing. I mean, it kind of is. Like he already talked about it where he was like this kind of like the harden role in this offense. Right. And they should just do that. You've got Aiden.

But should they do that because this is their team right now or should Devin Booker from this point forward try to run point? Both. The answer for me is all of the above. And it's not even so much as like the traditional idea of he's running point. It's just like he's good with the ball in his hands. He's creative and he scores a shetan. And yeah, why couldn't he be, you know, Hardin Jr.?

Why? That's a fun offense. Now let's see if it could be a good offense. You're right. There's a difference between running point and the ball going through your hands. Yeah. And the ball and the offense going through. through you. And I think that he's, I mean, he is still effective in the ladder. Yeah, he is.

Let him do it. Let him do it. I'm on board with it. All right. Your next team. All right. The last one is the pelicans. The pelicans need to hope and pray that the injury bug stays away the rest of the season because they cannot afford. Already their huge issue or their huge critique is that they don't have enough surrounding AD and Drew. They especially don't when they're, injured, left and right. And like right now, like Alfred Payton. Who would have thought that they'd need Alfred Payton back? I know, which I don't think that we should do so fast to be like, oh, Alfred Payton, because he's actually like, I'm into Alfred Payton now. I've never been into Alfred Payton.

I love that you're in to Elford Payton. I'm going to pull up a tweet from like, I think 2015 where I was like, oh, I'm in Alfred Payton stand. I love that you're on board with Alfred Payton because I've never been on board with Alfred Payton. I really am. And he's important to the Pelicans, I promise. after he left. He's bad Rondo though. Like I know he's younger Rondo.

Maybe he could pull that off. But I have my doubts about Alfred Paden when Alfred Paden was jettisoned by multiple teams. I'm not saying Alfred Paden is great. Okay. I'm not even saying he's Rondo. But he could be useful. But he's useful. They do need people.

Even bad Rondo is useful for this team. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's, I think you touched on something there that like, They need more. They need more. They're like when you go into the pantry and you need something to put on this chicken and you are looking desperately. And you like randomly remember that one time on Food Network that you saw like someone put maple syrup in something.

You know what I mean? I don't. This is a very 20 something take. Oh, that's a lot of tasty videos. Yeah, no. What I'm saying is like the pelicans are literally this weird collection and everything has to be there. What I got out of that was that you need to go food shopping and get some more stuff in the house.

All right, last one, we're going to round out our 30 teams with the Dallas Mavericks. Do a whole thing here about Luca or how he's playing with Dennis Smith or the Mavs in general being in the playoff mix. We're not going to do any of that. Because recently here at the Ringer, we did something that's exceptional

and it's Hallow Luca, half of which was created by our esteemed producer Isaac Lee. Isaac Lee, can we play the song, please? Well, I heard there was a wonder boy That many teams would not employ But you don't really care for euros, do you? So where would he go the fourth, the fifth Or would he fall and be a Nick?

The baffling kings take back Lee over Luca Isaac Lee, you have the voice of an angel it's an excellent song listen to the whole thing. Let it play as we go out here. I want to thank Jason Concepcion for being on the program. Kevin O'Connor, Haley O'Shaughnessy. She's got all kinds of stuff on the ringer. You want to check that out.

I want to thank Isaac Lee and his dulcet tones. That's just a beautiful singing voice. You can check out all of our NBA shows. We have heat check every Monday to mismatch on Tuesdays. Sources say on alternate Wednesdays, group chat Thursday. Corner 3 on Friday. We will be back next week, gang. Isaac, play us out.