The Ringer NBA Show - A Growing Contingent of NBA Players Is Wondering If the League Should Return at All | The Mismatch

Episode Date: June 16, 2020

A group of players reportedly led by Kyrie Irving held a phone call to discuss whether returning to play—amid the COVID-19 pandemic and continued social unrest surrounding police brutality—is the best course of action. Is this a representative sample of what NBA players want to do, and will this mean we won’t see some players make the trip to Orlando when the ramp-up begins at the end of June? Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com. It's Kevin O'Connor, A.K. Kevin O'Bomber, Kevin O'Connor, A.K., Kevin O'Brien, Kavanaugh, Kavanaugh, Kavanaugh, Kavanaugh, Kavanaugh, he is completely clean-shaven. For the first time during this entire quarantine, what happened to your majestic beard? just a little shaving accident that that screwed it up and so you know i i was thinking about starting from the beginning anyway because i think i did a poor job from the start at like training it to go down i was so scraggily so we're going to restart here and uh move forward

with a new beard today's a new day chris it's my first full day of being clean shaven this is yesterday i shaved so i uh i look forward to show my baby face. It's amazing. I feel like I'm looking at a past version of myself, first of all. And also, I feel like I look like I'm 23 years old again. Do you feel like less of a man? No, I don't. I don't think a beard makes you a man or not. I mean, you are a clean-shaven man yourself. I can't grow one. I don't think that makes you any more or less. I can't. But it does feel like I'm looking at a past version of myself, which is weird psychologically to look in the mirror or look at myself and this Zoom that we're doing right now. That is a weird experience after six and a half months of having facial hair on my

face because this started in like late December or something like that when I decided I'm going to grow a beard. But I look forward to starting the journey again. I know it is partly, I mean, people always say like, I thought you were way older than you are. And the trick is I am old. I just don't look at as much. And part of it is because my family, you know, my grandfather was, had at least a significant enough portion of Native American that he was like basically hairless. Like if you ever see Native Americans, they don't have, they don't have hair all over their arms, their back, their chest, nothing, right?

Neither do I. I don't have, like, I don't have chest hair. I don't have back hair. So it's not just my face. that doesn't grow. I could grow, I mean, I could,

like, not shave anything for months. And you would, I mean, you would see, like, you know, like the 13-year-old, like the first kid to get hair.

And he doesn't, and he doesn't have a razor yet. And it just looks, you know, he's got like this, like, you know, half-grown,

you know, a gangly mustache. And then, like, the, you can see a little long hairs coming off his chin. Like,

that would be me. After all these years. Sometimes, sometimes I used to wish that I didn't have to shave like every other day or whatever. And but like being able to grow a full beard, I'm also thankful that I have the flexibility to do that. Yeah, it's nice to have the option to do.

And I look forward to going on this beard journey again, a new day one right here. Soon enough, there'll be a little bit of a scruff. And you'll see me go through all the awkward stages. I'll tell you this, Kevin. You know, you and I've been talking all throughout these last couple of months since,

you know, from literally right after the go-beye, positive tests to the following days where the season was, we thought, canceled, but at least postponed for a long time. And then we have talked twice a week throughout this entire process. And it was just a few weeks ago that we were here and the owners had come up with their solution as to how to finish the season. The Players Association approved said solution to finish the season. And so it felt like we are, okay, here's what, here's what's going to happen. Here's what's, here's how this is going to go. And then as of recently, and in fact,

since we last spoke, there have been significant changes to that, at least in the sense that there are a lot more questions, I think. I thought we, you know, it felt like, okay, this is all, this is how this is going to be. And we were starting to talk about, you know, how this is going to and the different scenarios, how it's going to be set up. You know, and then they said there's going to be eight regular season games, and then there's going to be a playoff. And then after it all seemingly got approved, there have been a bunch of questions come up,

not the least of which happened since you and I last spoke, with a Players Association meeting that took place on Friday of great significance. And I will tell you that I was. you know I was out of town and I'm checking you know and so it's weird you're like as you're as you're checking things you're kind of getting part of the story and so I see the quotes from different guys I see the quotes from Kyrie Irving uh Dwight Howard is mentioned prom prominently in this and I'm thinking to myself if I'm being honest my first reaction was Kyrie Irving and Dwight Howard like what and even Bradley yeah yeah well that now every Bradley's coming to the mix now but I'm

thinking to myself, wait, didn't Kyrie? And look, listen, we'll get to the message. But it is impossible to not separate the messenger in some sense, because what we knew of Kyrie was you and I even discussed it. The topic was, should he be allowed in Orlando as an injured player? As he had expressed, he wanted to be in Orlando, thus meaning he was part of, obviously a significant voice in getting everything going and now obviously a change of heart on his end.

We went from him being a big part of approving this plan as he's an executive on the Players Association to the debate of whether or not he should be able to go because he's injured for the rest of the year to Kyrie doesn't think they should go at all. And I'm like, what is happening here? And it all happened so fast that I didn't know how to compute at all. And we're still feeling that way now, Tuesday, 1129 a.m. Eastern as we record right now. And, you know, I mean, I think for everybody, everybody's for the most part is probably caught up with it. I mean, Kyrie and Abradley organized and led a meeting of nearly 100 NBA players to, according to Chris Haynes, quote,

combating systemic racism, investing in black communities and sticking together through this process. And whether being in Orlando is the best way to, you know, face those problems and help improve those problems. You know, I'm glad the discussion's happening for sure. I think for Kyrie and Avery and Dwight and everybody, everybody who has concerns about Orlando and being a Disney World,

I think it is a good lesson here to listen. There's a lot of people saying like, oh, Kyrie's a flat earth truther. And it's like, yeah, but it doesn't matter here. I mean,

it's a good lesson to listen. to someone's opinions here, even if you disagree with them. And to keep an open, open ears and open heart here. And like, I think it's, it's a good conversation to have.

The upside, and this is something many people have talked about and written about, about using a stage at Disney World. And, uh, Adam Silver said last night at like the ESPN, uh,

by Greenberg, you know, commissioner round table discussion thing. He mentioned like he wants to have a conversation with players about like what can we the NBA do to use what we are to send this message to to promote positive change. And to me, the most important thing that can happen. And this is true like for the NBA between the players and the league itself. And this is true for really any corporation or like anybody else or any situation we're talking about collaboration together and finding solutions is the way forward. And for Silver to say that, that sort of confirms what I've heard the past three, four days or so, is that the NBA, like other leagues, like the NFL did, like the WNBA did.

They do plan on making some type of financial and social commitment to the causes that players rightfully care for. And I think I personally feel like if an individual, like if it's Kyrie or somebody else or like Maya Moore did retiring from the WNBA. to fight for social justice. If a single player feels like they can do it individually in their own way or have something that they want to fight for away from the game, away from Orlando, that's great, like awesome for them. But ultimately, overall, I think the collective of the NBA, its players and its teams, there's a way here to send a really,

really strong message together to the world with pointed statements and pointed focuses to improve things. for people. And there's an opportunity here for a real powerful summer of basketball. Like, yes, it can be a, as Adam Silver said, a, quote, healthy distraction for people who need it

for mental health reasons, but it also can be something that does help push for social change. And I know I hope, Kyrie and I hope Dwight Howard and I hope Abe Bradley also consider that side, which I'm sure they are. This is a discussion.

And I'm glad it's happening. And ultimately, I think basketball will be played. It's just a matter of who's there and who's thought and what what way the message is presented to people. Yeah, and I do wonder because you have seen in the case of those two particular guys, right? Those are the first names that came out, Kyrie and Dwight Howard. And there was at least part of me that sat back and wondered, you know, I have found that I think their NBA experience and people within the league have brought this up to me since this all happened.

their NBA experience is actually different than a lot of players. They are not, and you and I are as guilty of this, everybody else, right? We treat this like a game and we talk about it like they're entertainers. And you see some of those quotes that, like, basically we are used for our entertainment. And then we are, you're right? Like, that's what we're here for. And no longer are we just there to play basketball for your entertainment, for your enjoyment, and all these owners make all this money and everything else.

And it has been brought up to me. Their NBA experience is different than a lot of players because you would say they have not been, especially over the course of the past couple of years, celebrated like many other players in the league. I can only imagine what their social media looks like. You know, when you watch the shows and they talk about Kyrie Irving and they talk about Dwight Howard.

It's not positive, usually, right? You would admit like these guys don't get heaps of, praised they don't have. It almost feels like sometimes when they're quoted that being in the NBA is somewhat of a burden and attacks on their own mental health, right? Because many of the guys that are lifted up that are praised that are glorified, that they walk into an arena and people are all wearing their jerseys and little kids all want their autographs and whatever. Their experience as an NBA player is a bit different than those two guys in particular. And so again, you would love to be able to to just separate the message from the messenger,

but in this case, it does stand to reason that those two, in particular, have had a little bit of a different NBA experience than many of their peers. And that's sort of what Ed Davis touched on yesterday in the Hoops type interview with Alex Kennedy. He said, quote,

it's easy for a guy like Kyrie to say he'll give everything back, but would he really give everything back? It's easy for Dwight Howard to say that we don't need to play when he's in Atlanta and his $20 million mansion. But there are other guys the rosters who need this money to provide for whoever they're taking care of and things like that. It's easy for the superstars in this league to say this and how they feel about this and that, but it means a lot more when it comes from the role players and the guys that aren't stars,

end quote. And he went on a lot more than that. Like, it's a really great wide ranging interview that Alex had with Ed Davis. And Ed Davis, I mean, to me, like, he sort of symbolizes the way most NBA players feel about returning. I mean, like, it's easy for us. to sit here and say like these guys make hundreds of thousands of dollars or millions of dollars. But some players like provide for like 20 plus people. Oh, and he talked to Ed, Ed, who I know very well, um, uh, and have for many years. Ed, Garrett Temple, who we brought up last week. Garrett Temple, yes, brought it up.

You've seen a lot of these guys, Malcolm Brockton even has brought it up a super smart guy. Um, and they talk about their ability to acquire generational, wealth. And you do have to think about this. And it's not just their own money. It is, as you said, generational wealth and their ability to, while money is not everything, it does give them the ability to help communities exact change. That's what Michael Wilbon hit that point on PTI yesterday. He mentioned that exact point. Like, with this money you take in, there's a lot of good that you can invest that in back into the world. Right. And I thought, I was so, Mark Spears, who I think is just fantastic, and obviously he writes for the undefeated now,

but has been a longtime NBA guy. He wrote yesterday, and I'm going to just read a portion of his article that I thought was very, very persuasive. He said, there are many ways for players to get their message across. If they return to play, they could demand that a public service announcement about racial injustice and or police brutality airs during the first and second halves of all games on TV and radio. The loop of advertising running at center court during games could also offer a message against racial injustice. Since the games are played at a neutral venue, they could suggest the NBA named the floor in memory of George Floyd or Breonna Taylor or Rashad Brooks or Ahmaud Aubrey. They can ask that Black Lives Matter or I Can't Breathe be put in bold letters on the baseline.

NBA 2K, meanwhile, could be leveraged to feature this court on the video game that millions of kids play worldwide. For the first time, the majority of NBA media around the world are also willing and eager to hear athletes talk about racial injustice and police brutality. Journalists who were previously nervous, scared, or turned a blind eye are anxiously awaiting their words on these topics. NBA players can keep the conversation going whenever they have a mic placed in front of them, and there will be more eyes and ears on the NBA with so many people yearning for live sports. NBA players have the power to use the media to their advantage. And I thought, you know, this was a guy, like, it's one of those things where it's like, okay, what do we do? How do we do it?

And, I mean, he just rattled off like six amazing ideas, including, you know, one of them that obviously spoke to me is, I have a 10-year-old son. I promise you. And he's going to watch all the NBA games when it comes back because he yearns for it. But I promise you this, he wouldn't miss anything. anything on 2K. You know what I mean? And something like that, like thinking a little bit, all they, they wield a tremendous amount of power in terms of, and, and you do lose that power in some sense if you sit

out. Now, again, guy, I will be the first to say. You do. You do. I mean, look at, look at Kaepernick just for example. I mean, his voice was loud and clear while he was in the NFL and him not being in the NFL now for obviously like there's essentially being banished. I mean, that's a whole not of the conversation.

But just the simple fact about him not being in the NFL now, his voice isn't nearly as loud. I mean, the stage that is provided from sports is, is something that like you mentioned that article from Spears. Like, I had a screenshot from that same article that I wanted a reference. And it was like right like right towards the end. Spears wrote, what if Jesse Owens didn't compete to win? four gold medals during the 1936 Berlin Games and in the process,

crush Adolf Hitler's myth of Aryan supremacy. What if Tommy Smith and John Carlos didn't race during the 1968 Mexico games or hold a black fist in the air? What if Colin Kaepernick never kneeled during an NFL game in an effort to bring awareness to police brutality? What if NBA players declined to use their largest platform while playing for three months to voice their message against racial injustice and police brutality? Well, hey, how about to that point, Kev?

guess who was on that call yesterday that they put together for it was less than Friday but they had another call yesterday of about 40 guys John Carlos was on the call wow I did not know that yeah he was on the call yesterday with the other NBA players so it would be fascinating to know what he told everybody because he is obviously but look I I there is no question that is a very profound point to this day, you and I grow, you know the names of Tommy Smith and John Carlos, and you know what they did when they were given the opportunity. When they had center stage,

when they had center stage, the biggest stage in the world, literally, the Olympics, and what they did. And still to this day, it's 2020. And you mentioned those names. And people know.

Even kids know who those guys were. And so, and even if you don't know the name, you know the photo and you know, you know at least the intent and the meaning behind it. Well, and look, and these things, it's a little bit different now than, well, honestly, it's different now than it's ever been, especially with sport. Sports do create. And Lord knows we have learned over the course of the past three months, sports create a time capsule

of what was going on in many cases. and how many old games have we watched? How many things have we seen? And so you think about forever the story of the 2020 season, they have the ability to get that message out there not only now, but for forever. It's kind of like how I think about, like I remember once upon a time hearing why, you know, you would hear about, say, somebody like Phil Mickelson, and he would make this crazy amount of money for endorsing.

right? And I was thinking to myself like, what in the world? Like, why did these guys make so much money? And one agent, I remember telling me saying, because, like, say he wears like a KMPC or whatever, visor he wears, right? So these people, they're not just when they're, when they're lending, when they're thinking about the fact that they are sponsoring this. Every picture, every video, every, everything that takes place from this good player, like in perpetuity, he will be wearing that, right? So every time you go back and you watch a video of him winning the masters or every time you see an old pitcher that runs in a newspaper that they're using,

like that's the idea. And I think about that in terms of the NBA and this 2020 season, in terms of the advertising, in terms of what could be on the court, in terms of all the other things, that could have a magnificent impact. that forever when people are looking back as the chronicle of the 2020 season, it will always be right there for everybody to see. And that's part of the reason I think you and I both, we didn't even talk about the Mark Spears article before we started recording this.

No, we did. But it was, there were so many great ideas there that made me think, wow. I mean, this message, more people would see that than you could ever. get to see that, especially when you're counting on the news coverage of whatever you're doing. Now, somebody walking away from the money, somebody walking away from their career as a basketball player to go become an activist, by all means. It's a noble cause. And if that's what you want to do with your life, but there are a lot of guys in that league

that would be at great risk of having a career even and the amount of money that that's they would have going forward. And I think of it as someone who supports a family. There's a lot of guys that got to support a family and a lot of other people in their lives that end up really counting on them. Right. And so I think in the end it's a good discussion to have. I'd still believe they will play.

And Kyrie Irving can put, as Mark mentioned, Kyrie Irving, there's eight teams not playing. You could rally a big group of guys that aren't going to be involved in Orlando. to help out with all the social change and all the platforms that you want to reach. And then those other team, I mean, like, first of all, Tra young is already involved in the big project more than a vote with LeBron James and other star athletes. And it's a type of thing where like Trey and Kyrie could join forces early on. And then as teams are eliminated after the first month, they could join in anybody who chooses to and so on and so forth.

It can be, you could still have a lot of people that would be willing to help the cause here away from, the Orlando campus. I just, I mean, I just can't shake the thought of just how much of an opportunity there is here for the NBA to collectively be the face of

some real social change over the summer. And a lot of the problems that, you know, people want to fix are going to take many years, if not decades, to solve. But any progress that can be had,

any progress that can be had or any progress that can be started or accelerated. If the NBA can be part of that, it wouldn't shock me at all. It wouldn't shock me at all because there's intent here and there's pure intentions here for the league to make positive change. I just think it's important whenever that decision comes. And again, this is what Adam Silver hinted at last night. He wants to figure out the best ways to do this. the messages need to be clear and pointed with solutions. And, you know, I think like some of the campaigns we've seen in recent weeks,

like posting the Black Squore on Instagram are nice at all, like retweets are nice and all, but it can't just live in the Twitter bubble. It can't just, you know, be a post on Instagram. There needs to be pointed messages with solutions that are compelling, that bring people in, but also are something that someone who may disagree going in is able to look at and say, oh, yeah, I get that. I get that.

I think one of the things, you know, Spears mentioned is the roundtable discussions that could happen like at commercial breaks or whatever. Those can be pre-filmed and cut or whatever. It could be the freaking halftime show, you know? Instead of going to the T&T guys at halftime, all the time, you can go to them for two minutes and then play a 10-minute discussion. You know what I mean? Like, there's just, there's ways in which to have pointed discussions here that get

the message across to everybody. Well, and the other thing, Kev, is you, unlike many other leagues, and Lord knows we are seeing it right now with baseball just absolutely vomiting all over themselves every step of the way. And that relationship is so adversarial. It always has been, right? The owners of the buy. I, and I think many throughout the NBA, do not feel that way about the NBA. I do not view it as an adversarial

relationship. I don't feel that with the commissioner. He certainly doesn't rule with an iron fist. I view it as a partnership, right? I mean, and there is a 50-50 split even as it goes with their negotiations of revenue. And I do think that there is a partnership not only with the owners, Because you haven't seen and you don't see owners coming out saying, that guy's not going to do that, or that guy's not going to do that,

or that guys, you just don't see that happening in the NBA. You have seen that happen in the NFL. You have seen that happen in other sports. And the same goes with Adam Silver, right? It's the difference between a guy who I've known well for many, many years, DeAngelo Williams. DeAngelo Williams' mother passed away from breast cancer.

He wore like a pink towel and pink cleats and they find him. You know, for breast cancer, he's promoting breast cancer awareness for God's sakes while he's playing in the NFL. They paid the fine and he doesn't care. But the idea is they find him. Whereas guys walk out in the NBA and it's not their, you know, specified uniforms, they're all wearing I Can't Breathe shirts, you know, once a part of time. Adam Silver didn't walk in and say, you don't do that.

and find everybody. No, instead he said we want our players to be able to use the power that they have as professional athletes, this level of celebrity and how many people look up to them to speak out on what they believe is poignant. And I also think that you get that partnership. You risk that partnership and it becoming somewhat adversarial when they're talking about tearing up the CBA. and billions of dollars and everything else. I mean, I feel like this league has a very healthy relationship in terms of the way it all goes.

And I think the easygoing nature of Adam Silver has really helped this process. I do wonder how different it would have been with God rest of soul, David Stern. It's one of those situations in which, like, you could argue that if Stern were commissioner and now, things want to be going as smoothly as they seem to be. I mean, things are bumpy.

But in some ways, they're also kind of smooth with everything else considering the circumstances here. I mean, I obviously covered the Stern era. He has, he had no, he had very little bedside manner, as they call it, as compared to Adam Silver. And that's like on the inverse, I mean, I don't know if this would be better or worse of Stern said it's going to be this way, show up or not. Like this or that, right? I mean, with Stern, it would have been that way. my way or the highway. And I don't know if that would have been better or worse in the situation. Worse.

Worse. Probably worse. Because it becomes adversarial. You mentioned the idea of the NBA tearing up the CBA, which they have the rights to do. If that were to happen, you know, people have talked about the doomsday scenario, like renegotiating a new CBA during a pandemic and how much that would screw the players. It may not be a doomsday scenario here where, like, players get ultimate. screwed, but it would be worse for the players afterwards with a new CBA. It would be worse.

And you mentioned how, like, it could become adversarial between the teams and ownership and the NBA and the players. I could see it going down that path for sure, just like it is for the NFL or it was for the NFL in recent years where the players were at such a disadvantage compared to the league itself and that every CBA negotiation in the NFL is difficult. and contentious and only seems to raise new issues. And it never really seems to get much better for the players. I would worry that after everything that's been gained over the last,

you know, multiple decades, everything players have put in to continue growing the league, everything that's been put in that it could be lost that the CBA were, were to get torn up after a canceled season. And I don't think that's going to happen. I don't think the season's going to get canceled. I bet basketball will be played.

This is just a conversation that's happening, as it should be happening. about the best way to move forward for the things that are important for everybody, especially for the people directly affected by this, with police brutality, with racial inequality. And I'm glad in that sense that it's happening. And I would be willing to bet that this could only bring more good ideas to the table,

the fact people are talking about it. You know, like you can say, anybody can say whatever they want about Kyrie Irving, the messenger, but the fact is is that by pushing for this conversation, it is bringing about good ideas. And in that sense,

and I am happy that maybe moving forward when basketball resumes in late July, that there will be a clearly defined plan that is able to successfully push for positive change in the world. And if the NBA can be a big part of that, that would be awesome, man. That would be really awesome and powerful

just to see the league's standing team. together and making a real difference in the world. Hey, Chris, before we move on, I have to tell listeners about today's sponsors. Today's episode of The Mismatch is brought to you by Navy Federal Credit Union. The Navy Federal More Rewards American Express card is designed with your busy lifestyle in mind. The More Rewards card offers three times points on everyday purchases. That means three points at supermarkets, three points at restaurants, including food delivery services. Three points on gas and transit include ride shares, tolls, parking, buses, and more,

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Make your yard a Scotts yard. And now back to the mismatch. You know, I thought about the whole negotiation of this all, right? And so part of this and obviously when you do come out and say, hey, there's a group of guys that are willing to not play it out. You don't hear, you haven't heard from the biggest name. in the NBA saying, I'm thinking about not playing. Like, you haven't, you haven't heard that, right? You have heard from a couple of guys that certainly don't have nearly as many people

with their jerseys, posters on their wall, and get raised up as the celebrities of the NBA, nearly as much. You have not heard that. But I do think beyond the whole, you know, hey, this is a time, a moment in time that we need to take advantage of that if you do say, hey, we're not going to play, then you certainly have more motivation to say, hey, what can we do to help you guys out in these different ways, right? Rather than the NBA drawing a hard line saying, look, you guys agreed to do it. Come on, we're doing what we're doing.

Because look, Kemp, we've talked this whole time about the social justice reform and guys being willing to walk away reportedly from playing. but this coronavirus thing is still going on and the numbers in Orange County are not going down. They are going up. And that's where they're talking about doing this. They're talking about doing this in Orange County. And those numbers, at least for the last week, have gone consistently up. I saw yesterday where a couple of bars in St. Petersburg in Florida had to all close down because their employees had COVID-19. And it's not just total case.

either, it's percent of positive cases, you know, per day. So like people that are going and tested that number is going up too, which is really like the number to look at rather than total. I think what we thought was, certainly this is what we hoped. We didn't know because as this whole thing has gone on, it's become rather clear that we don't know anything, you know? That's for sure. We know that obviously stay at home help.

Clearly, what we do know. What we do know is wearing a mask helps. Sure. Social distancing alone helps a little bit, but wearing a mask is the most effective way to prevent person-to-person transmission. We're June 16th. We're a few weeks away from when they're going to start testing

and start getting ready. And then I think what we hoped, with our fingers crossed, was the world will be a better place and the coronavirus epidemic, this pandemic that we are going through, that things will start to taper off a bit. And that's just, that's not what's happening in Orange County, in Orange County, Florida, right? Like, it's not, we would hope that it's getting better by the day.

And that it certainly, and that you would have less fears when time comes around for them to play basketball. And so that is, that is something. that obviously is going to be investigated a great, great deal. I can only tell you, I don't know what it's been like in your city, but they have stopped advancing phases. As the numbers have gone up in Memphis, they've stopped advancing phases,

and the timeline of when businesses have opened and the biggest businesses in town are going to have people back in their offices, that has gotten moved back at least three weeks now. You know, it was like, all right, We'll, you know, at the soonest, we'll come back to the office then, and then it keeps getting moved back. And so that's just one city in particular, but the idea is it's not getting better. This is not getting better right now. And that's something the players did talk about on that call on Friday.

There's a lot of players who don't understand why Disney workers are able to go in and out, why they're able to go home into the outside world where variables aren't controlled, and yet all the players have to stay, you know, at Disney World without leaving and why they get tested every day and Disney workers don't get tested every day. I understand that concern. I don't think it's realistic to expect Disney workers, you know, to quarantine there, to stay inside the bubble. That's not going to happen. I do think it's fair to have to test the workers every day. That seems like a reasonable compromise to me, but, you know, the plan that the league, tenant of the league,

has with having, you know, essentially two levels. You have the level one where, you know, players and coaches and teams, they are not seeing people from the outside world. They're in their quote unquote bubble. But then you have, you know, certain media or, you know, the Disney workers that really don't see the players face to face or interact with them. And it seems like that would be fine. There's obviously increased. risk, which is why I do think it would make sense to test the Disney workers every day. I don't know if that's going to happen, but as of now, it doesn't seem to be able to plan, but that seems reasonable to me to further decrease the chance of infection here.

But that is something players raised as a concern in addition to what we mentioned earlier, and in addition to the fact that a lot of players would like their families to be there from the jump. And to me, that is a perfectly reasonable thing to hope for. I thought, you know, the WNBA announced yesterday that they're coming back and they're going to have similar type of protocols near IMG Academy in Florida. And what they have is players with children would be allowed to bring them in and players with at least five years of experience can bring a plus one. Something along those lines to me would be kind of cool to see the NBA adapt from the start. I mean, again, like introducing more people creates more logistical issues in terms of, you know, hotel, in terms of increased testing.

But if that's something players strongly want for that first month since they arrive in mid-July, again, that seems like a perfectly fair compromise if the league is willing to go that far. So there's still things to sort out. And like the NBA and the Players Association agreed to continue down this path. agree on a finalized form. So it's still negotiations to be had and think conversations to be had. But overall, I think we're going to come out of this with an even stronger plan. Yeah, you know, the negotiations and obviously you get more of what you want in those negotiations. But I do think sometimes you read some of the stuff and it's like, listen, we all knew.

This is not going to be normal. This is not going to be easy. And let's all pray to God. It's a one-time thing. It's a one-time thing to be able to, right? I hope so. Yeah, to be able to play this out. And of course, I'd want to have my family there.

I understand, wanted to, but there is another side of this, which is we are trying to keep, you know, you safe too. It's not, we're not telling you, hey, you need to be in this area. and you can't leave this area. It's not some kind of a punishment. This is, we are talking to health professionals and doctors and saying, and Dr. Fauci even vouched for the NBA's plan the other day. And just explain to guys like, hey, I know it. And this is where the bedside manner comes in.

I know it sucks. I know it's not ideal, right? But we're trying to do what's best. And if you want to play basketball, you want to finish the season, we are motivated to finish the season. These are the things that need to take place. And it's not because we don't want you to be able to leave or want you to be able to have your families there,

whatever, that we have talked to people that have said, what's the safe way to do this? And that sometimes gets lost at all of this. It's like the NBA, like the NBA is not telling, it doesn't have these protocols because they're enacting, their power and saying this is what you have to do. And sometimes it feels like it can become adversarial like that. But rather, this is what they're telling us is the safe way to do this.

So let's try to figure out if there can be a little more leeway but still be safe about this whole thing, right? Yeah, exactly. And that's what's been like with the NFL's plan. They don't really have any plans for like a neutral site or anything like that. It seems like full steam ahead with training camp. late July. They don't even acknowledge coronavirus. They really don't. No, they're like all the people going out to restaurants right now in bars and all that, just not acting like it's not existing,

which I mean, like your choice if you want to do that, but ultimately, like, it's still there and it's still a thing. And we're going to see in two or three weeks, like, what the byproduct of like all the protests are. Like, if hopefully, like, there's not an uptick, you know, in communities where protests, you know, were very, they had large gatherings of protests. Like I'm talking like hundreds or thousands of people. I hope there's not an uptick because it's outside. And like there's a lot of studies that say outside transmission is very low like is a very

low likelihood. We'll find out in the coming weeks. But the fact is, is this isn't going away. We're still on the first wave here, man. And for the NBA, people talk about like canceling the season and then just planning ahead. for next season in October as planned.

October might not be possible, man. We don't know what it's going to look like then. It could be worse at October. It could be. Like, we just don't know. And next season, like, if the NBA is able to successfully get through the rest of this year and finish it up, crown a champion at Disney World, you know, and like if it's a, if it's successful, nobody gets sick, seriously sick,

you know, we're able to, the league's able to push for positive change. well still then there's getting next season of work and you're not going to get you know all 30 teams at disney world or las Vegas or somewhere else for the entirety of the basketball season there's a brand new challenge that awaits as we're seeing right now with baseball possibly canceling their whole season uh with the NFL like they don't have they haven't gotten to that point yet obviously um but we'll see what happens as we move closer to that time if they need to install some type of plans and protocols against coronavirus. But for the NBA, man, like this could be a part of the conversation for the next year about safety of play with coronavirus. Well, and it speaks to the level of power. You know,

we've talked a lot over the last several years about player empowerment in the NBA. And Kev, it obviously speaks to it. I mean, you have seen, you've seen very few. You saw Trevor Bauer. I'm sure you saw the thread last night with him just destroying Rob Manfred on,

on Twitter about things. You haven't seen, at least I'm not aware, you haven't seen NFL players. And I think that is for fear of repercussions of things. You saw them use their power in order to get the NFL to, like, they made their own message that they got out there, right? Because they were disappointed in how the NFL had handled it so far. So the stars took the power into their own hands and produced a video. and that ended up having Roger Goodell coming out and speaking to it afterwards and releasing a statement. But you haven't seen, like I do wonder if you saw, and you even saw Ezekiel Elliott yesterday, right?

He test positive for coronavirus. And when he comes out, he says, hey, what about HIPAA? Like, how did this story get out? But you didn't see and you haven't seen players coming out saying, I ain't, like, we need to be thinking about. is and we need to think about whether we're going to be playing or not or if God, like say Tom Brady came out. They said, look, unless we have this, this and this, I don't think we should be playing football.

You haven't seen any of that in football, right? So, I mean, I think it just speaks to how we have seen over this last few weeks, the NBA and the voices. And they can, like this morning, there's a new, or yesterday, there is a new press release from Kyrie Irving and Avery. Bradley getting out there, this is what we want and this is what needs to happen. And here's where we stand. And like, you just don't see that.

And that's part of the reason you just, we haven't heard any news on the NFL. Like we had the weird draft that took place and it took place just like it was going to take place. And then there's no like consistent talk about. So we're just planning on like they haven't even, as far as I know, like, they haven't even said if there like is going to be a capacity. like 50% capacity in stadiums or anything else. Like people are just kind of going on with it.

And it feels like, you know, you would be at this point, you know, you're a few months away less than that from what would be a preseason. Or I guess two and a half months away. Maybe it maybe it maybe it maybe his time goes on we'll hear more plans. But there have not been players speaking up and there certainly haven't been playing. Richard Sherman Richard did yesterday for what it's worth. He said, in general, I think we just need to go out there as best we can and live life. I'm just not sure that we can shield players from something that seems inevitable.

Just think about how these protocols just keep raising more questions. Are we testing the bus drivers and their families, the flight attendants and the pilots, the hotel staff and the stadium staff, the refs, the refs families, the people that hold the yard markers three times a week. You see how deep this goes with contact tracing. Are you going to fly people in groups of 15 on the plane? Are the young guys not going to go out all year? I mean, this is crazy.

there's no way to implement all of these protocols with a thousand percent with a thousand percent safety and make it completely foolproof we just have to do the best we can carefully and respectfully and he said that to jacina anderson and est and you know it's that's the type of what richard sherman said is what you know my understanding is that some NBA players believe that a lot of people believe period i mean it's you know no NBA player an NFL player MLB player is any different than you or me or anybody else when it comes to their feelings on this virus that we don't understand. You know,

everybody has their own thoughts and opinions. And that's something like a lot of people feel about like moving forward here, which is why you're seeing restaurants fill up, which is why like you're seeing, you know, the gym in Oklahoma fill up to see Tray Young play. A lot of people are just like, you know what? You know, unless there's a vaccine,

which is still no guarantee of, like this is something we're just living with and we can only do our best, which is why, like I mentioned earlier, doing the bare minimum, wear a mask. Just wear a mask when you're when you're at a public place, especially inside. That's the minimum you can do that can help prevent.

Like if you have it and you don't know it, that can prevent someone else from getting it from you. And it gives you some protection as well from others. That's the least you can do to slow the spread. Like you might not want to go, you might not want to stay inside. You might not want to like never go to the restaurant or go hang out with your friends. I get that.

Like I get that. Like I'm 29 years old. Like I haven't hung out with a single. friend since March 8th. Not since March 8th. That's the last time I've seen any of my friends besides like on like, you know, FaceTime or or playing Call of Duty, you know, but like that's my choice. And a lot of people aren't going to do that or go that far. A lot of my friends have it. That's fine. But like almost all my friends I know of are doing what they can like with masks and continuing to be clean, like washing their hands, all that stuff that we were talking about

back in March. That's something people can do. And if the end of NFL's plan isn't to test and do all the stuff that Richard Sherman just alluded to, which is challenging. The least they can do is have players, you know, or all the staffers wearing masks. You know, everybody else, those guys holding the markers on the sidelines, all the referees wearing masks. Like, if that's the minimum, like, cool, man. Like, I get that. But we just don't know moving forward. We don't know what it's going to look like.

We don't know what September is going to look like for the return of football. we don't know what like December's going to look like for next NBA season. Are people? Yeah, I know. I agree with you, Kev. Are people just, this scary to think, but truth be told, are people just going to have to decide I'm willing to live with the risk? I mean, obviously people have.

People have. I mean, you have seen, you've seen people over the course of the past, you know, several weeks decide. Some people, some people can't live with the risk, though. I mean, like, there's the people who like, who are immune. compromised or like I think about this all the time like my dad was diet we found out there was a 99% chance he had cancer on March 15th last year last year in 2019 I thought to myself like what if that happened this year four days after the NBA shuts down like just as it's apparent this is happening

there's a family out there right that their loved one got diagnosed in March and like they're not they're like terrified to go at chemotherapy treatment or like even go get a doctor's you know a doctor's meeting or blood transfusion like there are people right now who have medical problems that aren't going to get medical treatment because they're afraid that they're going to catch coronavirus because they're someone that's probably going to get either seriously sick from it or might even die from it. Everybody talks about like, and this is something that bothers me. People talk about like, you know, the amount of percentage of people who die, like how low it is. It's like, yeah, it is low. It's really low for

people that are young especially. But what about the people that like have side effects from for like three plus months. And we don't know the long term effects. How many of those are permanent? There's so much we don't know here, which is why like, just do the freaking bare minimum and wear a mask.

Like, even if you don't want to do everything else, which I'm choosing to do. But like, if you don't want to do everything else, wear a freaking mask, please. Well said, Kevin. Kevin O'Connor, look at him. Clean shave and all that.

Boy, that mask. Hey, that mask feels bad. different. It fits a little tighter now, doesn't it? I mean, remember back in March when, like, I forget who it was, like, CDC, the who, I don't know, whatever. Like, they put out the thing saying, like, beards, like, there's certain types of facial hair. The mask doesn't work as well on. Oh. Well, now you, it's going to be a totally different experience for you. Then again, like, the CDC and Fauci and all of them said, you'd no reason to wear a mask back in February and March.

So don't listen to them, but also don't listen to them. Wear a mask. Just wear a mask. I'm going to be wearing a mask anytime I go out in public. It's going to do it for today's show. Thanks to Bobby Wagner as always. Kevin, I will talk to you on Friday. I look forward to it.

We'll be answering your questions on Friday. Send us email. Email your questions, comments, thoughts, whatever at NBA Mailbag at gmail. dot com and we'll get to those before Friday show. We'll talk to you on Friday.