The Ringer NBA Show - A Knicks Coup! Plus: Injuries Are Starting to Pile Up. | The Mismatch

Episode Date: November 12, 2019

A rash of injuries has hit the NBA. We discuss the most impactful ones, including Gordon Hayward's and Steph Curry's (1:50). Then, we run through some Kristaps Porzingis troubles in Dallas and the absolute organizational debacle that is the New York Knicks (25:11). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That's BrilliantEarth.com slash ringer NBA. Welcome to The Ringer MBA show. I'm Chris Vernon and joining me as he does every Tuesday from the Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, A.K.A. Kevin O. Bomber, A.K. Kevin O. O. Bomer. A.K. Kevin O. Klamer. Kevin O. Kavanaugh. Kavanaugh. Kavanaugh. What's going on this Tuesday morning, buddy? Well, unfortunately, the story since we last spoke is a rash of injuries throughout the NBA to some extremely prominent players. Since you and I have last spoken, Gordon Hayward heard his hand is going to miss six weeks, Deeran Fox, three to four weeks with a ankle injury, Chris Middleton, three to four weeks with a thigh injury.

And obviously Hayward and Middleton are on very good teams. Darren Fox, the news just gets worse for what has been a nightmare of a beginning of a season for the Sacramento Kings. As if they weren't losing enough games, their two future stars in Fox and Bagley have now missed a lot of time for injury at the beginning of the year. But Hayward Fox Middleton all out. And I'm going to talk about another prominent player here in a second. but for those three, it's pretty clear Sacramento is least equipped to deal with it. Do you think the Middleton injury will hurt the bucks a lot?

Will they still be able to win a very high percentage of games losing Middleton for a month? I was thinking about this, you know, last night after the news broke, looking at their numbers. And during the regular season, I don't think it's going to be much of an issue during the regular season. Chris, if you look at the past two seasons, including so far this year with Janus and Middleton on the floor, those guys are obviously dominant. But even in situations in which Janus is on the floor without Middleton, they're still a dominant team, you know, outscoring teams by 18 points per 100 possessions. It's not like Janus needs Middleton to have, for the team to

have success during the regular season. It's just in those minutes where neither of them are on the floor, it's going to hurt. But I still think they have enough juxtons. to carry this team without Middleton for the next couple weeks. Well, and how about this? This also plays into a guy having a chance at a back-to-back MVP. He's already averaging 30 points a game. You've got to imagine. I mean, they're going to need to make up those points.

I mean, what's the cap on Yonis? He's already averaging 30 a game. If Middleton's out, I would suspect that number goes up or it might not because he'll get even more attention than he normally gets. I don't know. The one thing I would say, Chris, in regards to Middleton, though, is this left leg injury, the left thigh injury is on the same exact leg that he, three years ago, had surgery on his hamstring. And it was a ruptured hamstring that he had surgery on back in 2016. And it's just noteworthy, that's all.

I mean, it may have nothing to do with his past injury or surgery, but it's just noteworthy that it's on the same exact leg. And it's just a thigh contusion keeping him up for three to four. four weeks, and hopefully that's all it is, because with Middleton, you're right. Like, during the regular season, this is an opportunity for Janus to put up even bigger numbers because Middleton is not going to be getting his typical shots and touches per game, this season 14 shots per game, one of their primary scores, of course. And now that a lot of that is going to go to Janus, not just the other guys who are going

to be filling Middleton's shoes, but most importantly is that they're going to get him back healthy for that April, May, and they hope June run. that's the priority. And I think they're going to be fine being able to stay afloat without him. Certainly not what is best for the Celtics, Kevin, but for Jalen Brown, if you want to validate the big contract that he signed last night was a great first step where he goes out. And 38 minutes, 25 points, 11 rebounds, 3 assists, and on a night where Jason Tatum had a historically bad shooting night.

You know, now they've got a guy that they can plug right in there with Hayward having to miss an extended amount of time. And you just hate it for Hayward, who, you know, was not himself all of last season and then came back this year and looked better than ever. And then just a freaky thing to get his hand caught like he did on Aldridge the other night and have to miss, you know, a month and a half. But at least for one night, it looked like the Celtics are going to be able to be just fine with Hayward missing some time. They have the requisite depth to be able to deal with that. I mean, it's obviously a shame that Hayward got hurt.

And you hope for him that he's able to get back and have the same type of mindset and aggression that he did prior to this fluky hand injury. But whether they can fill, you know, what they're going to lose from Hayward, I think they, again, it's similar to the Middleton injury. They can, they'll be fine. for the next six weeks without him.

And one of the reasons why is because you assume guys like Brown and Tatum can elevate their play with more opportunity. And Brown specifically, I mean, we've talked about Tatum on this pod before, but we haven't really touched on Jalen Brown, partially because he didn't miss some games the season for Boston. But he looks a lot better, man. I think Jalen deserves credit for the guy he was at California as a freshman there was a poor decision maker, a guy who stopped the ball. ball, a guy who really did not have that good of a handle at all. He had very, very basic ball handling skills, very, you know, hirky, jerky with his movements. But now in the NBA, there's fluidity to his game and he's become a better passer off the dribble. And that's a testament to the work he's put in, testament to the coaching and training he's received as well. And I'm

impressed with the player that he's become driving to the rim and changing pace, changing tempo. He looks like a guy that can, you know, create for himself with more efficiency than ever before and pass to his teammates. He has a good passing vision now. And with Jalen, you know, averaging nearly 20 points, Jason Tatum, granted he just had that just horrific game yesterday. Chris, you've mentioned one for 17. Oh my God, that's horrible. But it was one for 18. It was one for 18. I'm sorry, one for 18. But these shorted him. These, these, these, two guys can't step up without Gordon Hayward. That's for sure.

And the other one that we mentioned was Fox. Might save Luke Walton. You know what I mean? If they were going to try to pin it on him, now he can say, what do you want me to do? I don't have Darren Fox. I don't have Marvin Bagley. They're probably going to be a big disappointment anyway.

But now you can point and you can say, what, like, what, do you expect me to be winning games? Like, I lost my guys. They're in trouble, Chris. They were in trouble, Chris. They were in trouble anyway. I know, but this could get really ugly. That's what I mean.

Buddy Heel could maybe score 30 a game. I don't know. I mean, but then you need like Bogdanovich to also consistently bring it like he did the other night against Atlanta dropping 20. You need so many guys in this roster to step up their games to even stay afloat in the conversation, but it's over for them without Fox. It's sad and fortunate that the team with such high expectations is, you know, falling flat on their face, but that's the NBA, man.

Bogdanovich is a great trade piece. If you're not going to pay him, get something for him. And if your season's going nowhere anyway, if I was a team out there that needs to bolster myself, I would give something up for Bogdanovich for sure. No, I dig his game a lot. I do too. A couple other injury notes.

Steph Curry told reporters he plans to return from a broken left hand in the spring. So while there are many players injured and there are some that are going to be out, we won't even see this year. like Durant and presumably John Wall, sounds like we are going to see Curry this year. And they might be, what, 50 games under 500 by the time we see him. I mean, I don't know.

I guess we'll get to see Steph Curry play. So people that bought tickets to see Steph Curry in the spring, at least they'll get to see him. I guess that's the only thing we can say about that, right? Your MVP pick is dead, though. Yeah. It's certainly, certainly dead. But, you know, it's like with Golden State, for any Warriors fans listening, it's like, well, you know, maybe hopefully over the course of the season, you're able to see these young guys get better.

Hopefully, DeAngel Russell continues to improve within Kirst system. You still have things to watch for for when Steph eventually returns to look forward to for next season. It's just this is a red shirt year for that entire franchise. And at least those new luxury boxes were only like $7 million apiece. Sure. Yeah. They move into a new arena. Got $7 million luxury boxes and this is the product. I mean, that's a bad break. Listen, they've had enough good breaks, but damn, man, the first year you move into a new place. It's interesting to see Draymond Green in this new world for him. You know, I mean, I think a lot of people are rightfully going to use this season in which he's, frankly, overall, looks like a negative out there. He's just, you know, the offense is not. there. He is not able to enhance or compliment Steph Curry and Clay Thompson. I think this season,

when people talk about Dreamon Green, is probably going to be used as a negative against him because he's not a ceiling razor, but he is a floor razor, and he is an enhancer of other star players. And I think with Draymond Green, it's interesting the conversation when you're ranking, you know, the best players in the league. Dremont, understandably, gets knocked for not. not being a guy that you can solely rely on, but he is uniquely equipped to enhance other stars without any overlapping strengths or anything like that. And I wonder, like, with Dremont,

how do you value a guy like that, either on a team or league-wide and with conversation about who the best players are compared to the typical, quote-unquote, stars we talk about that are the guys you feed the ball to? And we're seeing the bad side of Dramon here, but I don't think people should forget the really good, you know,

incredible side of his game that we've seen in the past. It's understanding what he is, which is the best, third best player in the league. That's what he is, right? I mean, if you expect him to be your second best player, if you expect him to be your lead dog, and obviously, when you had Durant two,

it's embarrassing. He was the best, fourth best player. Yeah, I mean, he's, but that's what he is. He is the best third best player in the league. That's a good way to put it. And if you've got him as your third best player, you can win 70 games.

We saw it. Right? But that's what he is. I don't think. And there is something that is amazing about that. But he needs, you know, he needs two other guys to go alongside him. And I don't think that there is,

I don't think that there should be any demerit in that. And that's one of the interesting things about someone like Pascal Seacum for the Raptors. I think last season, you know, granted he was just 24 years old last year, but the conversation around him was sort of like he is a, he's one of those guys who, you know, compliments Kauai. He's, you know, a great versatile defensive player. He runs up the floor hard. He cuts hard. He can hit corner threes.

He sets a tone for a team as sort of like a Draymond-esque type of presence on a team. but unlike Dremont, he's proven this year that he can be one of those guys that you solely rely on. And that is the separator for those truly transcendent stars and those guys who are like Dremont, the best third player on a team, as you put it. And that's not a knock on Dremont. It's just like you said, it's understanding who the player is. And then sometimes, though, when opportunity knocks for guys like it has for Pascals

to Yacom, you find out every single. season that they're fed more, that they can do more for you. And what we've seen from Seacom this year, and overall the Raptors, like the past two games, they beat the Lakers and then lost to the Clippers by 10 yesterday. They're in really good shape, man, with Seacom as their best player. And I think he sets a tone for the rest of that team to follow with his effort, even with his increased offensive load. He is still setting that tone in the same way he always has as a role player, running up the

floor in transition, playing hard on defense. It's really impressive to watch this Raptor's team turn into what they have despite losing Kauai, despite Lari even being out. And Siak, I'm just leading the charge with that franchise. Yeah, and it is one of those where sometimes there are guys that they can be much better than what we projected. They could be the best player on a title team or they could be the second best player on a title team where we might have thought that their ceilings being the third best, that they needed two better players. I mean, for years, and then we miscast guys all the time as being guys that can be the best player on a great, great team. I covered a team for years that had Powell Gasol. Pal Gasol was

miscast as the man, but he was an amazing second best player for the Lakers. They won titles with him, you know? And so it's figuring out like, okay, where does this guy fit in the context of the league? Seacum is an amazing case study because, you know, he makes you question everything. This guy has been out of his mind, Kevin. I mean, he just won Easter Conference player of the week and the numbers he was putting up. It was like over 30 points a game, double digit rebounds. And we didn't know. Is he, Is he a great sidekick? Is he a great second best player? Do you need two players that are better than Pascal Seacom?

And now it's like, geez, maybe he can be the best player on an amazing team. You know, it's interesting with Seacom. I'm kind of, I'm on that comment you said about how Dremont's, Dremont can be, he's the best, third best player in the league, right? It's like with Seacom, he could be the best, second best player in the league, but he's definitely not the best, best player in the league, right? You know, like I think there's a there's a cap still on what he is in this premier go-to role. So maybe an ideal role for the, an ideal world for the Raptors, you do find a guy that's a better go-to score than Seacum because Pascal, you know, as good as he's been the season, he's been awesome, averaging 26 points, you know, better passing, better ball handling, still doing all the other stuff he did well.

When he does have the ball on his hands, though, it does take away a little bit from the spot-up shooting. the corner, the cutting, the rim running, that all these positive traits that he was able to really unleash in more of a minimized offensive role. But the fact that he can elevate his own play and do the things that Toronto was demanding from him, more isolations, more post-ups, more pick and roll, it's amazing to watch. Like you said, Chris, it's kind of a shock. I liked Seacum in the draft in the 2016 draft. I think I had him ranked like in the 30s, so I'd had him ranked lower than he was actually drafted.

But it was hard not to like him because of his effort and his defensive upside, but he did not have a jumper. He did not handle the ball the way he does now. He does not pass the ball the way he does now. He has transformed himself. He's like a Pokemon evolving. You know, he's like charmandered that turned into Charzard. He has similar questions.

qualities to his game, but he is just totally transformed into something so much more larger and so much more significant as a presence on the court. He's one of the best stories in the league, man. It's been a lot of fun to watch his growth, and he's only going to continue to grow, I think, especially now with Lowry out right now, they're going to put the ball in his hands as they have in the last two games more often to get him more playmaking opportunities. It could be another potential area of growth for him. very shocking to me that you were a Pokemon guy.

You're being sarcastic, right? It's not shocking. It's the least shocking thing ever. Come on. I wasn't a Pokemon guy, but I'll tell you this. Okay. Here's a, are you? I took my kids. I took my kids to go see.

See, I don't know that much about it, but I took my kids to go see, uh, because you're like 63 years old. No, I'm not. How dare you? I went to go, I took my kids to go see Detective Pikachu. you. It sucked. I didn't see that. It sucked. Really? And then it got great ratings. I don't know. I guess there's just

so many nerdy critics that they loved it. Why did it suck? I haven't seen it. The story didn't even make sense. It didn't even make sense. Story didn't make sense. But anyway, that's neither here nor there. I'm sure that I'm going to, I don't want to do it because then all these

all these Pokemon guys they're going to be killing me over this. They're going to be saying, oh, you don't understand and Pokemon. enough already with the Pokemon. Did I fall asleep and wake up producing the Big Picture podcast? No, you didn't fall asleep. This happened.

I gave my review of Detective Pikachu. I love it. But I think... The idea of... Now I want to see the movie because I haven't seen it yet, but I was super intrigued by the idea of it. It was just the whole idea of Detective Pikachu. Just in this fantasy world,

Pikachu comes alive and he's smart and he's funny and he's witty Yeah, he wasn't I laughed one time Oh, come on You're a carmugent You're just a curmudgeon Oh, I laughed one time

You're, I mean, comedy And it is all subjective It wasn't comedy It's subjective It's subjective It wasn't comedy You're a commargin I might laugh 40 times in the movie

You probably would You nerd All right One other injury note that we need to get to. Things have started off great for Los Angeles. Well, we're like on 20 minutes of injuries. It's too many. Too many injuries. Come on.

I know. But this is, this is one is worthwhile to talk about because it is not an injury, but it is something that we seriously need to keep an eye on. Things have started out great for the Lakers. They're 7 and 2. Anthony Davis, 27 points a game, 10 rebounds, three assists, three blocks.

But you see him on the sideline and the guy's wearing a heating pad on his shoulder all the time. He was quoted as saying there is never a play that I don't feel it. He said, I just play through it and worry about taking care of it after the game. This is something very serious

to monitor because this guy is playing at an MVP level. Everything has been going great for the Lakers in this early season with their early season schedule. But when you see Anthony Davis on the sideline with a heating pad and that quote saying,

I never don't feel it and I just play through it and worry about taking care of it after the game. It does make you wonder, is this something that he's just going to have to play through it the entire season? Is this something he's going to end up having to take time off for because the pain gets so great? I mean, right now there's a bit of unknown with it, but what is known is his shoulder is already really bothering him. It's worrisome. It is. I mean, he's going to play through it and all that. You know, that's great.

But with AD so far, the season, he has not shot the ball well. He's shooting only 28% from three. He's shooting only 35% outside mid-range from two. That is below his typical numbers in those areas. And, you know, it's just interesting. With Anthony Davis, is it affecting perhaps? his shot, I don't know. Is it affecting situations maybe where he goes up for a rebound? I don't know. Is it something that can get worse? He said yesterday that it's better now than it was two weeks

ago when it first got hurt. That's good. But it's just something worth monitoring because he does tug at that shoulder a lot, does reach for it. And as you said, he's always getting maintenance on it during when he's on the bench. So it's just something to monitor. Well, here's the problem. If the quote was it comes and goes and I'm fine, that's different than I'm there's never a play I don't feel it. That was the quote. There's never a play I don't feel it or that it doesn't bother me. That's the issue here.

That is a very disturbing quote. But here's hoping that he can stay healthy. We're going to take a quick break when we come back. We've got to talk about the Knicks Crisis Management. All right, Kevin. We'll get right back to it. First, we want to remind everybody today's show brought to you by Roman. With two thirds of a guys experiencing noticeable hair loss by age 35,

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auto insurance. All right, Kevin. So right before we went to the break, we talked about how the Lakers have gotten off to a great start. Shockingly, the Knicks have not. And after 10 games, their crisis management was for Steve Mills and Scott Perry to take to the podium saying that they felt an obligation to talk to you guys, speaking to the media, and that they need to communicate to their fans.

that they aren't happy right now. But then they said they believe in their coaching staff and they believe in the plan that me and Scott put together, that's Steve Mills talking. They are 29th in point differential. They are last in offensive efficiency. They are last in field goal percentage. They are 29th in assists per game. And they're about to set up a game in a few days where Chris Stapp's Porzingis,

which was once dubbed to be the future of their franchise, is going to be coming, wearing another jersey. Stories came out yesterday from Adrian Wojianowski, saying that Steve Mills has been working behind the scenes to make David Fisdale the scapegoat. Who should get the blame here? Is it Steve Mills and Scott Perry? Is it David Fisdale?

Who is most to blame for the two and eight start for the New York? It's James Dolan. It's neither of them. It's James Dolan, but he can't fire. He's not going to fire himself as owner. That's ultimately the big issue here. In regards to the front office, how could you have high expectations for this team?

I think the expectations fairly could have been, and as we talked about before the season, Chris, that this team would be a high effort team, that they would play hard and try to be competitive, but still lose a lot. But they have not been competitive. They have not really been playing that hard, especially as they've started to lose a lot of games early in this season. And, you know, that's, I think that's really the main concern here that the team is not playing up to those expectations.

But in terms of the record two and eight, who cares? Like, everybody knew this team was going to suck. And what happens with Fisdale? I don't know. I mean, they could also just be using this as a PR reason to get rid of them when there could be other stuff. that they decide from a tactical point of view, maybe the guys that he's playing or the way that he's using them.

It could be more than just the record. That could just be the reason that we're fed publicly and we're given to believe and given to talk about, which we are right now. But the real conversation with Fisdil is probably much more nuance

that they're having behind the scenes there in New York. Well, for Nick's fans, it was always, you know, the problem was that they weren't playing Frank Ilakina and then they played him in Dallas and it was like, see what happens when you play Frank? And then he got Frankie smoked by Deeran Fox and Colin Sexton back to back. And so it's not, Fisdale not playing Frankie smokes.

How long were you waiting to use that? He got Frankie smokes. He did get Frankie smoked. When did you write that line? I didn't have to. That was off the cuff? This is an easy one. I mean, look, and I now I got a way to...

I got a wait another week for you to retweet somebody putting up a two-minute clip of totally normal basketball plays that the guy makes and acting like he is king of the world. Whitney's average five points a game, 38% from the field and 50% from the free throw line, of which he never goes to. I mean, so it was all, it was all because, Fizz wasn't playing Frankie smokes, and now all of a sudden he's playing Frankie Smokes,

and they get their ass beat by the cabs, and it's like, oh, okay, well, what's next? Look, it's interesting because I wonder if the national media is going to trash the Knicks for getting rid of Fisdale like they did the Grizzlies when they got rid of Fisdale. I don't know if, I don't know if Fizz is the problem. I think Fizz went there, A, because he was going to get paid a fortune, But B, he did joke about how he's got like two and a half years left on his contract.

Look, he thought they were going to get great players. He did. He thought they were going to get great players. They don't have great players. They don't have great players. Their leading scorer is Marcus Morris. Remember I was just talking about the best, third, best player you have? Like, Marcus Morris should not be, he should be your best fourth player.

Or fifth or six. And he's your leading, yeah, right, or six. He's your leading scorer on this team. This roster stinks. And they built a trash team and to have Steve Mills and Scott Perry, you know, stand up there. And this is not what we expected and we're not happy about this. That's what I mean.

That's what I mean. They can bring in any coach. And they ain't winning. Nobody's this stupid, though, is my point. My point is like, it's just being used as a reason. But nobody's dumb enough to think this team would have been good. Well, and here's the thing. maybe there should be a proper investigation that like what if Steve Mills and Scott Perry ever done?

What have they done? You know what I'm saying? Like surprise, they run a crappy team. Like, you know, Perry was at Sacramento for two weeks when he got hired at as vice president of basketball loss. Before that, he was Henigan's right hand man. Things are, you know, were great in Orlando for sure, for God's sake. And then, I mean, he was with Joe Dumars building a team in Detroit. mean, so we give him credit for being the assistant there.

I mean, like, you know, you go look it up and it's like, and he was with Seattle when they drafted Kevin Durant. Oh, that was a hard pick. I mean, what is he done? And Steve Mills was like running the garden. Like, that's what he was doing. He was running the garden. And then he went to go work for Magic, you know, and Magic Johnson Entertainment. And then like, so what have they done?

Like, why do you think that they would be able to build a great basketball team? But again, again, though. I know, does James Dolan's gig? Who hire them? 100%. It's James Dolan. Look, it all goes back to James Dolan. But you do have a job to do when you are, you know, that there is a job of the general manager and the team president.

And I don't think that James Dolan picks the players. Or James Dolan may prevent them from getting players. I totally could see that. But their job is to build a basketball team. And this basketball team sucks. And nobody's going to win with it. that team. And you look at what they did in free agency. And then they came out and apologized the day of free. Why are they steady always apologizing for crap? You know, like free agency goes terrible

and they take to the podium apologizing. And then they say, oh, no, this is exactly what we wanted to do. And we have a plan. And then they go two and eight and they say, oh, we still believe in our plan. And this team is underperforming as if they should be good. You know, like, You see, we can be good some night. I feel bad for Nick's fans. I do. I feel bad for them. I feel really bad for them.

It's sad. And I think with New York, though, you and I talked about this previously when I have defended their summer, right? And I mentioned how, like, the next two years, this season and next, before the 2021 off season, they need to change their image. They need to become a team that is viewed as a high effort team with young talent on the rise. James Nolan needs to, you know, stay out of the picture. You know, he needs to change. And that's what needs to happen. And so far, you know, it's November.

And nothing's changed. Nothing's changed. Their image has not changed. If anything, it may even get even worse. If you fire Fisdale, a well-liked coach, if you totally change the front office, and by the way, those guys aren't safe. I mean, like, Dolan could fire anybody at any point. And there was already the rumblings of James Dullin wanting to

go after Masayu Jiri who runs the Toronto Raptors. And I don't think Masai would leave Toronto. He just signed an extension there, one of the highest paid executives in basketball. But if James Dolan were to pay him, Phil Jackson money, like, who knows? Who really knows what could happen moving forward? But this team, mid-November, already does not look like they're on the right track. It looks like they are still on the wrong track and going further and deeper down, down the road where people don't perceive them as a team as a franchise that anybody would ever want to play for.

And they're not doing the things that they have to do to change that. And that's unfortunate. Yeah. And so we will watch this play out. But when you are 10 games into the season and your leaders have already taken to the podium to apologize. And then there are already stories. I mean, now it makes it untenable now that that story is out that the guy has been working behind the scenes to get fizz fired. It's just a matter of time. It's a matter of time. You can't have that story come out. He's a goner. at some point. Yes.

He will be a goner and then they're going to have to go find a basketball coach. They should hire Phil Jackson as head coach. Oh, for God's sakes. Maybe that'll work. They're probably still, hey, they're probably still paying him. Speaking of the Knicks, like I mentioned on Thursday night, it will be the return for Porzingis, who interestingly got benched in the Celtics game last night. And he had taken off the last game over the weekend in Memphis for load management.

then was one for 11 and was downright dreadful. And I was impressed by his comments after the game. You know, he certainly did not take it as a personal affront. And, you know, it was kind of like just it wasn't his night type of thing. But for a night where, you know, Chris Stap's, Porzengis was terrible. Jason Tatum was terrible on the other side. And it would have been great for Chris Taps to not have a terrible night. He has been a detriment to the Dallas Maverick so far.

But as we know, this is a work in progress. And you know, you would imagine that they'll be able to figure it out and that they can be devastating with that tandem of Luke and Porzingis. But the interesting thing so far is that that has not been when they have been very good this year. And in fact, while we lauded and praised and like, hey, they're going to have Luca and Porzingis, weirdly those two have not been good on the floor together. Chris, if you weren't able to see height, you know, if you couldn't tell the difference between somebody who is five foot two and somebody who is seven foot two,

and you were watching Chris Staps Porzinger's play, how tall would you think he is without knowing his actual height? Oh, I would say six foot. I mean, like a wing, like six eight. Yeah, maybe like even six, six. something like that. That's what makes him so freaky. Yeah.

Freaky athletic, but I mean, he has been crap so far this year. And I think the reason why I asked that question is because one of the problems that really showed up last night in Dallas's loss against Boston was, like they always have, Boston comfortably put Marcus Smart at 6'3 on Christop's Porzignis. And when I talked to KP during Mavericks training camp this year, I asked Porzingis about, you know, him improving his post game because with Luca,

the expectation would be that he would get a lot of mismatches on the posts. And Porzing has said to me, quote, earlier in my career, smaller guys like Marcus Smart would get me off balance. But now I feel comfortable playing against a smaller guy. A lot of times what works is a quick move with one bump or just turn into his face and shoot over him.

I've gotten a lot better at reading those situations. It's a lot of film study, but also just playing, knowing how to play against a smaller guy instead of a bigger guy. And in last night's game against Boston and this entire season, Pozingis has not gotten better on the post. He still plays, as you just said, Chris, like a 6-8 guy, a 6-6-6-6-guy, you know, who should be punishing smaller players at 7 foot 3 with his size and length and what looks like visible strength, but he plays like a noodle on the post.

And it's, it's sad to watch in many ways because, like, he should be just punishing Marcus Marr. And Bargismar is awesome. I love Marcus Marcos Marcia, but he should be punishing somebody who's that much smaller than him. He should be punishing Jason Tatum on the post. But he doesn't consistently.

This has been a problem since before he was drafted. It was, I loved KP in the 14 draft before he dipped out. I had him ranked 10th that year. I loved him in the 2015 draft when the Knicks took him fourth. And everybody's booing him. And I'm like, no, this dude's actually really good. And he is good. But the Post is the area of his game that has long been such a significant weakness.

And it's the area of his game that he needs to still get better at to make him a truly great player. He can't be somebody that opponents are putting small guards on, small wings on, and being comfortable doing it. Defenses and opponents need to worry about putting a smaller guy in Porziniis because that's when it creates serious matchup issues in the face. favor of the Mavericks. And right now, those advantages are only theoretical, because they're not real until KP can be somebody who's just punishing smaller players inside, forcing teams to play big, which will create a whole new world of issues because of KP's versatility on the perimeter. And that hasn't happened, and it's disappointing. And right now, it's what's holding back Dallas and their top 10 star in Luca Dantzich. KP needs to be better than he's been. I saw Donchich in person over the weekend, and I said to somebody, he did not have the greatest of games, but I said to somebody, you know the real superstars.

If you took somebody to the game that never watches basketball or doesn't particularly care about basketball, and you just said, watch this game, you tell me who the best player on the floor is. Who do you think is the best player? Like, that's when you know the superstar. He's still, you watch the game, he's the best player on the floor. And it was by a wide margin. And he didn't even have that grade of a game. he is so damn good. Oh my God, he is.

I tell you this, if you live in a city, and he is one of the few that I would say, like, if you are in an opposing team city, like get your tickets and go see him in person. That is a special player for sure. I mean, it's amazing how quickly the rise can happen too. It's like we were just talking about Siakam. I think Siakum, like, look,

you guys have to do it over a longer period of time to really hold the spot. rather than a 10-game sample, you know, plus what they did, you know, last season. But Seacum, I think, has proven to be a top 20 guy. And Luca, I think, is like probably the ninth or tenth best player right now in basketball. And the other thing is when you see him in person, you can always gather things from seeing guys up close and personal than on television. One of the things that stands out is he is even bigger than he appears on TV. That's a big kid.

He really, Luca is big. He's a big guy. And just a boy, he is a special talent, to say the least. It's like the line from Halliluca. He's white and thick. All right. There's a player that has been on a run here that we need to mention because I would say he is, if he's not the top most slandered player on social media, he's certainly one of the top five.

Who's this? And that is Andrew Wiggins. Oh, yeah. And Andrew Wiggins is on a run here. His last five, let's just say the last five games. He had 25 points against in the Milwaukee game. In the Memphis game, he had 30 points,

six assists, two rebounds. Followed that up with 40 points, seven assists, five rebounds, 25 points, five assists, four rebounds, 33 points last night against Detroit, five assists, six rebounds. Something that has never particularly been in his repertoire is making other players better.

He's been a good scorer since he's been in the league. But right now... I don't know about good, but he's scored. Well, I mean, he is... Right now, it's 25 points per game, almost 26. I mean, in the past, he assists per game. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. He was never efficient, but he got buckets.

No, but these numbers are good. this year. Oh yeah, they've been really good. And the assist number is very promising because he's kind of got the ball in his hands and they have been without point guard for some amount of time. But for the most slandered guy, you know, he looks way better than he ever has before. I'm just going to say that. Absolutely. Sometimes we go too far where people think, you know, Andrew Wiggins sucks. Andrew Wiggins does not suck, but he might be overpaid. That's for certain. and he might not be able to be your first or second best player on a really good team, but he's clearly over the course of these last 10 games,

especially showing real growth as not only a scorer, but he has been a playmaker for his, you know, for his teammates. Well, the playmaking is the most surprising aspect of his game that's happened this year for him in Minnesota. And that's partially a byproduct of the way Ryan Saunders is, utilizing in this system. Now they are essentially the last two seasons, Wiggins averaged 1.9 post-ups per game,

1.6 last season. And this year, it's been cut in half to 0.7. He's only logged 7 over the season so far. But he's running about double the amount of pick and rolls that he has the past two seasons. Last two years, it was 4.5 pick and rolls per game, 5.4 picking rolls per game. Now he's up to 9.6.

and that's of of possessions where he scores the ball. It's even more when he passes out of pick and rolls. And that's the big thing. It's like he's running pick and roll now in a system that has a five-out offense with five players spacing the floor when he has the ball four around him. So he has easier passing lanes, simpler reads. And I think he has shown more of a willingness to pass the ball too. And that's partially something that Saunders before the season, he said,

you know, Wiggins is going to have a breakout year. And, you know, people say that all the time. But the nature of this system has made the game a bit easier for Wiggins. And it's nice to see that manifesting for him because, as you said, Chris, he could always score. He was never efficient, but because now he's taking more threes instead of deep twos, because now it's, it's a bit easier to get to the basket because the lane isn't clogged. And it's easier to have open shooters to pass to. it has opened things up for him as a player.

And I don't know how real this is. Wiggins has had stretches like this before. He's had stretches of eight, nine, ten games in a row where he looks awesome. So we've been fooled in the past, and I want to see it more from him over the course of the season. But I'm very encouraged, particularly by the playmaking aspect, which is kind of a reflection of the system change that happened overall there in Minnesota. That's helped towns.

It's helped Wiggins. and helping other guys on that team. It's encouraging. Last couple of things. So you want to blow up the spurs because they lost to the Grizzlies? That's a good reason to. No.

It's not. It's a good reason to. No, it's not. By the way, when I, for what it's worth, what you're referring to is last night,

I tweeted out. I'm looking forward to recording Tuesday's Ringer NBA show with Chris Vernon after the Grizzlies went over the spurs. I got some thoughts with a gift of stuff being blown up.

I think when it comes to the Spurs, there's not a lot to blow up here. You have two older players, Marcos Aldridge, who has this season and next season left on his contract, and you have Demarta Rosen, who has a player option for next season. Aldridge being 34 years old

and De Rosen being 30. There's not a lot to blow up. They have a lot of nice young talent on this team. The problem, is Chris is that DeRosen is a roadblock to consistently playing some of that young talent together or playing

that young talent for more minutes. Murray, Forbes, White have not played together this season. Murray and White have rarely played together so far for San Antonio and they are arguably their two best guards, but they're definitely their two best young guards. And I think for San Antonio

it would be wise months in advance of DeRosen's free agency. I think because of the weak free agent class, it is at least possible that he'll opt out of that contract. I think for San Antonio, if he is somebody that you were not going to sign anyway, he is somebody that according to Sam Eamick from the athletic,

said that they were far apart in contract negotiations. If he is somebody that you don't see as part of your future, it makes sense to therefore trade him before the February deadline. And in regards to Lamarcus Aldridge, I wouldn't necessarily trade him. I'd just be open to trading him. But if you're San Antonio, I think you need to remove De Rosen from that back court and unleash some of these young guys and give them more scoring opportunities,

give them more playmaking on-ball opportunities that DeRosen is taking away from him from those players as a overall negative player, unfortunately, in the state of today's league, which is his mid-range heavy game. I mean, the dude's only taking four threes. It's really, I don't understand. I don't get it with the Rosen. He has long been such a good mid-range shooter, and yet he just is a refusal to shoot threes.

It's very odd, man. It's like, unfortunately, that's the nature of the game today. It's like, I'm writing about this tomorrow on the ringer, but it sucks that a guy like DeRosen is a negative in today's league. It's disappointing, but it's just the reality. And with DeRosen, what? A negative.

Yeah, he's a negative. Why is DeRosen not a negative player right now? Inefficient. Doesn't play a lot of defense. Don't they have a top ten offense? Don't they have a top ten offense in the league? Yeah,

they knew. What the hell are you talking about? Is that because of Zerosen? Or is it because of... He's their leading score. Yeah, but raw numbers. Like, Andrew Wiggins has long been the leading score of some Minnesota teams.

The leading score doesn't necessarily mean anything. It is one part of a... a large overall ecosystem. How can he say he's a negative when they have a top 10 offense and he's been good? Yeah, but it's not just about scoring. It's about defense. Because he doesn't shoot threes because he doesn't do

what he's not good at. Why are you always insistent upon people doing things they're not good at for the greater good? Like, he does what he's good at and he's efficient at doing it. Like, and he's, and he's a key cog.

He's not horrible at three point shooting. He's like, a 30% three-point shooter, which, again, like, is more... This is the inherent flaw in, like, the math. It's just the math. The fact is that increased floor spacing does help your teammates. Also, you know, it's a more expected points per shot

with him taking more threes, whether spotter or dribble jumpers, than it is pulling up for mid-range. I would understand if their offense was a problem. That point is that it's just unfortunate. But it's not just about the scoring, though. Like, forget the scoring for a minute. I'm talking about the defensive aspects.

I'm talking about all the other areas of the game that are average or below average. And the point is that whether DeRosen is a negative or not isn't the point. The main point is that I don't see him and I don't think the spurs see him as part of the future of the team. And because of his contract, because of the fact that you have so much other young talent on this roster, negative or not, I think it makes sense to move him. That's all. I think this is a grand overreaction to one loss. Why is it an overreaction?

Because there are two and a half games out of first place. I mean, like it's so early in the season. They lost a game. Yeah, but. They lost a game. But when I said this when they, when I said this, and the point isn't to say they should tank.

All I'm saying is you're saying this because they lost the Grizzies last night. No, I'm not. I was writing this article on Saturday morning. Well, they kicked the show. And then they kicked the shit out of the rockets and you didn't or what? I mean, like, it just depends on what game it is that you watch. I mean, they lost to the frisly last night. There's nothing to do with reacting to any games.

There's nothing to do with that. It has to do with just the overall nature of the team right now. And the fact is that they have a ton of young guys who are not playing together or getting opportunities to play together or they're not getting as many minutes or touches or whatever it may be. And that's where my main issue is. is like I would love to see these guys get more opportunity to thrive because they do have so much.

The Spurs, before they trade Kauai, you looked at their team and we talked about this at the time. They did not have much young talent on that roster. And now they do. They have Murray. They have Forbes. They have White. These are some impressive young players.

And we didn't even mention Lonnie Walker, who is still underdeveloped and very raw on that team. The point is, Chris, is that regardless of your thoughts under Rosen, whether you think he's a negative or you think he's a great player, whatever. Point is that he conceivably may not be part of the future of this team. And I think with San Antonio right now, it would be more of a good thing for them right now to be investing more into some of that youth on the roster.

Maybe you keep Aldridge and have like one strong veteran presence to have on that team. But I think it makes some sense to at least shop around de Rosen. All right. That's all. Fair point. And I meant Oklahoma City last week, not Houston. And they have, they've been on a bad stretch. I mean, you know, they started off where everybody was like, oh, watch over the Spurs.

We were wrong about the Spurs. They started off four and one. And now they were one and four in their last. So now they're sitting at five and five through the first 10 games of the season. And interesting game that they've got on Wednesday night at Minnesota. I'll be interested to watch them play against Minnesota and see what happens there. But this is, you know, last night.

One thing on Minnesota, that's sort of the interesting thing with San Antonio. This is touches on what I'm writing about for tomorrow. With San Antonio, you're right, Chris, that they're allowing DeRosen to do what he feels

most comfortable at and what he is best at. And that's pulling up for mid-range, shooting for mid-range. Same with Aldridge. A lot of post-ups, not a lot of three-pointers on pick-and-pocket. or spot-up situations, they put guys into positions

where they are comfortable. And that is a very, very good thing. Like, that's one of the reasons why San Antonio has been good for so long. They've always been adaptable, changing their system to best fit the strengths of the players. However, because of the way the game has changed, and Minnesota is a good example of that,

sometimes it's not such a bad thing to put players into positions where they are uncomfortable. if it does result in a better overall system, a better overall environment for that player to thrive. Wiggins now in a system, like we just talked about, with five-out spacing, able to get to the rim more often, not shooting quite as much from mid-range, especially early in the shot clock, and that has helped him become a more efficient player. And that's the frustrating aspect with San Antonio. It's like what they're doing for so long still is working.

working. Like you said, they have a top 10 offense. But I do question how long can this work or how many players are we actually going to have that do resemble a de Rosen and that do resemble an Aldridge? I just do wonder if these are the types of guys that fade away because it just doesn't work as well as this modernized three-point system. Does that make sense, Chris? It does if they weren't having success. The problem is not offense. So if you can be highly efficient doing what they're doing, which they have figured out how to do, then more power to them.

I like that not everybody plays the same way. Me too. I'm glad that they don't, that they play the way that they do. And that's sort of like the central thesis of the article tomorrow. It's like, I love watching the Spurs because they do it differently than almost everybody else right now.

It's fun to watch a team that is a relic of the past with the Rosemary. You just made an argument that they shouldn't be doing that. Yeah, no, but that's, that's the thing. That's what I mean. It's like, I love watching them, and yet it's like, well, how is Doroz not shooting threes? It would be a more efficient play for him individually.

That's what I mean. There's these contrasting views in my mind and in my brain when I watch the Spurs. And it's just, I'm not sure how to feel about that. Well, then just let it go. Just let it go. Don't think too hard about it. Last thing. A week ago, you and I talked about James Wiseman,

who is a projected top five, maybe top pick in the NBA. He has been ruled ineligible by the NCAA, but Memphis is going to fight it. Therefore, that means James Wiseman is still going to be on a basketball court, and I did want to alert people that who knows how long, that will be the case, but he is expected to play. And if you want to see him tonight on ESPN, another top 15 team, Oregon. it's the Phil Knight

Invitational and so it is the opportunity to see Wiseman against what is supposed to be a good team in college basketball in Oregon

and who knows how long I don't know if he'll play X amount of games or if he'll play out the whole season or what's going to happen but while it came out

that James Wiseman was ruled ineligible Memphis doesn't appear to care that he was eligible and is going to fight it and so he is playing tonight against Oregon.

So I would just alert everybody a good opportunity to get to check him out because in a year where there are projected top picks that we are not getting to see on a regular basis except for highlights

like Lamello Ball, like the kid that's, who is the other one, RJ Hampton, right? Who is playing overseas. Wiseman is one of those that is playing in college basketball and who knows how long

he will be playing a college basketball, but at least another opportunity to see him tonight. Do you have him, if you were to make a board right now, I'd assume he's in their top five. Of course. Are you a Anthony Edwards, Lamello, Ball, Cole, Anthony?

Like, where do you find him amongst those in your mind? You know, I haven't done actual rankings yet, but I'd probably have Edwards number one right now. And, you know, gotcha. Wisen's in that top group of course. They're all in that same grouping. All right, well, this is an opportunity to see one of the projected top picks.

So, Nick's fans tonight, 8 o'clock. And Warriors fans. And Warriors fans. Kings fans. You want to, Charlotte fans?

If you want to check this out tonight. Charlotte's not bad. 4 and 6. You don't think they're going to have a high pick? You don't trust Terry Rosier? DeVante. DeVante Graham's been really good for them. I love scary Terry.

I love scary. Devonthe Graham's been pretty awesome. He has been really good. He has been really good. I picked the wrong Kansas guy with Frankie Mason for my island. I mean, Graham, Graham's been great. He has. I should have gone with Devante Graham.

Anyway, Kevin, it is always a pleasure. I will talk to you on Friday. Peace out. Thanks to everybody for listening to another episode of The Mismatch. If you dig what you're hearing, go give us a rating and review on iTunes, five stars, five stars. It really helps. And we will talk to you on Friday.