The Ringer NBA Show - A Look at Potential First-Time All-Stars

Episode Date: August 4, 2022

This week, Kyle and Tyler kick off the show by discussing Victor Wembanyama and what he can be if he’s healthy (5:00). Then, they discuss the new-look Timberwolves and how much better Anthony Edwards can get with Rudy Gobert on his team (11:07), plus Cade Cunningham’s chance of being an All-Star this year. (29:00) Hosts: J. Kyle Mann and Tyler Parker Producer: Brian H. Waters Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Derek Thompson, the host of the podcast, Plain English. We tackle technology, politics, culture, history, everything that's happening in the world and why it matters. New episodes of Plain English drop every Tuesday and Friday on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Basketball is so tremendously, spectacularly good. And it's a great day to talk about basketball whenever I'm joined by this guy. One of the most interesting men in the world, I would say. the only guy at the ringer the only guy at the ringer who's both uh second city trained and has also witnessed ronny dunn seeing neon moon at a wedding you're the only guy i think what's the overlap there

probably not many people i would say i'm not sure what that i'm not sure how many people reside in the in the middle of that venn diagram you know i can tell you that you know ronnie ronnie still got it you know he may be a little maybe a little wind swept maybe a little sunburnt you know depending on the time of day. But no, that, that, that he's, I mean, he's still absolutely whaling, Kyle. It's, it's outrageous. My favorite thing that he does, and I apologize to people like, speaking of vocals, I'm recovering from some congestion, so I sound a little odd, I think, to myself.

But Ronnie Dunn, one of my favorite moves that he does is he kind of like hurls himself into high notes. He does this like, ah, like he does this. Yeah. these really, it's almost like a chaotic trapeze artist, you know? It's like this seems on the verge of chaos, you know. He really likes to sink his teeth in on some of those like, you know, like that, I believe.

He loves to really just like try to just let the Jews, you know, spill out. Yeah, he's like an actor that choose a line, you know? It's like you throw it to Ronnie. It's like he can, he can say a lot without saying a lot. lot. Oh, yeah. I mean, so much tonality. Well, Tommy boy, sell a catch up pop sickle to a woman and white gloves. I mean, this is, Ronnie, Ronnie will, Ronnie will tell your story. You write a good song for Ronnie. He'll tell the story. Well, we joked about overstaying our welcome in terms of like, Southern, Souther percentage index. I think we're already pushing the limit there.

Enough Ronnie done talk. Right. Let's get to Tanya Tucker. So Tanya on onto Tanya Tucker. Let's talk Martina McGride for just a minute and then we're going to move on. No, you ought to see her fly. We're in the dog days of the basketball year. I don't know why dogs have been pinned with that negative connotation there, but it should be they should be the cat days. Cats, I feels like cats are way more irritable than dogs, right? Like, I think a cat's way more likely to have a bad day than a dog. Yeah, so much more temperamental. Yeah, exactly. Why would it, why? Why would it, why? Why would a cat that should be the cat that has never thought about it. I agree.

I agree. There's not a lot going on right now. But you know, so we're getting creative with what we're talking about here. A lot of free agency things are kind of up in the air, unresolved. We don't know where Katie's going. We don't know if the Donovan Mitchell trade's going to happen. We've got some tampering kind of litigation going on. It seems like out there.

Bones Highland lost his dog. I don't know if you saw that saw gone. Oh, no. I didn't see that. Did they find the dog? dog. I don't know that they found it yet. He was very upset. It was a little bitty dog. Dude, that stuff. I mean, jokes aside, that stuff's devastating. That's, that sucks. And I also love Bones. I hope he finds his dog if he has not found it. Yeah. I mean, a guy would name Bones with

a, anyway, yeah, I hope he finds his dog. We got Eurobasket coming up in a month. You know, there's been some interesting kind of roster change up on that front. Poku's not going to be playing for Serbia. I don't want to, I don't want to talk about it. But I'm pretty frustrated. You know, I get it. He's got to hit the weight room. You know, hopefully we can. Is that why? I would say so.

It's funny like that it was him and Yovich that Serbia was like, you know, Yokic, you know, Yokic, there, Nugs are like, sure. I mean, if Yokish says he wants to play, the Nuggets aren't going to say no to him, right? But like, it's funny that Pat Riley and Presti were the two that were like, no, y'all are good. Y'all don't. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. One, one big one here was Victor Wimbenyama is not going to be playing. Wimby is a guy, I think, just quickly before, and today we're going to be talking about, we'll quickly talk about Wimby, but we're going to be kind of riffing on potential first time all stars is something we're going to be talking about. First, I wanted to just kind of like,

I think we're in a period of people are hearing a lot about Victor Wimbeny. Yama. He has almost like a mythical, like his, his, let him proceed to him in a way already. In a way, and I don't feel like a lot of people have gotten to see him play. You know, we've heard a lot of talk about posturing and jockeying to potentially get him. I know there's been discussion about that with OKC, with the spurs. It's kind of reaching a comical state. he had another injury, had to pull out of Eurobasket. We didn't get to see him. What, what is your thought on Wimby just at a, at a glance here, from a starting point, how would you,

how would you scout Victor Wimmyneum? Are you excited about him? Do you think, are you believing the upside? Are you skeptical? No, I mean, definitely, definitely, you know, believing in the, in the, in the potential. I think it's interesting. you know, what you said about sort of him taking on this kind of mythical status. I mean, even down to his measurements now. Like you look it up and the official right now is right, whatever, he's 7.3, 2.30 or something like that. But then you hear people talking and it's like, and he might actually be even closer to 7.5. And then it's, you know, and it's like, and his wingspan might even be 710.

We, you know, like, it's like, you know, when you start talking about a guy who has at least, you know, shown the flashes off the bounce that he has and can protect the rim like that and move in space like that, if that person also has an eight foot wingspan, then I don't know what to like, you know, you sort of entered a new. this is a new, a new era of the league, right? If you get, if you, if you get to those measurables, right? I mean, there's, there's freaks already, right? Janus and, and, and Katie and stuff. But this is like, uh, that stuff. And, and, and the, the flashes off the bounds, I think are, you know, obviously they're the most tantalizing stuff when you see them, you know, sort of these clips go viral

and everything online and, and, you know, if you watch a full game, it's, it's not that the whole time, right? Like it's, there's plenty of struggles and, and, and things like that and, and, and things he's going to have to get better at. But yeah, the, the, the, I think that when you, when you, when you watch him, like, you watch him in those, that game against the U.S. when he played against Chet and Kenny Lofden and all those guys. And you see the picture, like, you just, you just, you know, freeze the frame when he's standing

next to Chet or. one of these other dudes. And how small he makes them look. And then you see how Chet was dwarfing a bunch of dudes at Summer League and stuff like that. Like it's just it, he's, he's the type of, like, he's just the, he's got the type of body that I think is, is another level of wild, right? Like, it's like a, it's a different, it's like the Zionist kind of athleticism, right? It's like there's all this other amazing athleticism.

And then there's like Zion's just leaping ability, I guess, right? Yeah. That's what kind of what it feels like if you combine the measurements with like the, you know, the flashes that you've seen off the dribble and the shooting, you know, like. Yeah. Yeah. And it's interesting because I think once you start to get past a certain threshold of size and you talk about like overlap with like ball skills, the functionality kind of becomes

the question because when we, you know, I always think back to like when we saw like YouTube clips of like Thon Maker and everybody was like this guy's next. This guy, you know, it was just like, I remember like the ball's life like, you know, headlines and things like that. It was like this guy's next. And if you watch it, there's a big difference, I think, between watching a guy dribble in like a pickup game at like, you know, one of these NBA players, one of their camps and playing in a real game, We've kind of seen that with with Chet, you know, even at the summer league level, watching him playing those games, watching him try to take people off the dribble. You know, he can handle the ball, but like how functional is that handle within a game setting? I think that's a great thing. He's decidedly better, you know, with a head start in the open floor than he is coming at you, you know, from a standstill isolation kind of thing where he's, you know, trying to square up and go by you. You know, the, the handle feels a lot more translatable when he's on the move in the open court than it does when things get a little bit more cramp for sure. I totally see what you're saying. Yeah. And I think that there are some things with Wimby, you know, The health stuff does worry me.

They were talking about the specific injury that he has had now is a muscle that runs from your leg to your back, and it helps you lift your knee up, that it's similar to a hip flexor. Those are four body parts that are crucial, the hip, the knee, the back, the leg. You know, those are things in basketball. You've got to have those working generally. Not things I want to hear from my 7 foot 5 guy, but a lot remains to be seen. A lot remains to be seen. You're not stoked about that diagnosis if you've got to be.

got a seven five it doesn't uh it doesn't fill me with just joy and optimism but wimby's wimby's an interesting player so today today we want to talk about guys that could potentially make a leap this coming season um young guys that are the the all-star game is an interesting thing because it seems like you don't really see guys i was kind of going back through all-star teams looking at like player types um our idea of an all-star I feel like a lot of times we think of all stars as like this is a guy who definitely scores over 20 points per game. We think of like high production guys, you know?

Sure. As opposed to historically, we have seen like high quality, what I would consider high quality role players, maybe not focal points of offense. We've seen guys like that sneak in. So whenever I think about the all star discussion, my brain goes to, well, you know, there's no way Bam out of bio doesn't seem like an all star to me. but he has been an all-star, Draymond Green. And sometimes guys will get like the team bump.

We've seen that happen a couple times. Remember the Pistons got like five guys. If a team is like really killing the Hawks that year for sure. No, it's, yeah. Yeah, you occasionally see guys get, get a bump. I was going to go down through here. First one I wanted to talk about was Anthony Edwards. Anthony Edwards, his situation changed a lot this summer.

It seems like they are really going for it with Tim Conley taking over for the wolves, made a huge trade that's been super. I think, well, what I wanted to ask you is how much positively or negatively do you, do you personally think that the Rudy Gobert fit with this wolf roster is going to affect what Aunt does this coming year? That's the, it's, you know, I, I, you know, I agreed with people when they were like, that's a lot to give. up. I also think that the wolves are probably going to be really good, you know, next year. I am the one aspect of it that, and man,

I'm sure people did talk about it. I, but it, like, from the Edwards perspective, you'd like to see the lane a little bit more clear for him, just from a, from in like an aesthetics perspective, like as a person who enjoys seeing him get his feet underneath him and try to put a guy

in the rim, right? Like, you'd like to see, um, not as much junk in the lane, you know, mucking up the runway, right? Yeah. But I also think that he is like Gobert's a great screen setter. And whenever he's going to be setting the picks and diving in the pick and roll, I imagine that screen's going to be a little bit better than the ones that Cat, you know, slips to go pop or whatever, right?

Like I think that in some ways it's going to improve things. and maybe Cat does transition to almost just so exclusively operating from the perimeter with the addition to Gobert that it is still like a four out kind of one in thing and it and it all kind of balances out because obviously Kat's a great shooter. Yeah, I just I hope that I hope we don't see so much like big boy bully ball that it keeps Edwards from really being able to get downhill in the ways that he can because I think that's when he's really, really special. When he's got a defense worried about how big he is and how strong he is once he gets into the middle of a defense, you know, that's that's such a big fear. That's whenever people, right, are going to start going under those screens.

And, you know, like, that's only going to help his jumper, which I think is obviously, you know, improving by the day. So I, yeah, I, I'm, I think that's where the big leap could happen for him. I think is when we're talking about in space, you're talking about is the laying clear. I mean, in terms of like as a dribble pull up shooter, I pulled up some things. He was pretty historically bad as a rookie as like a dribble pull up shooter. All the, it's funny because he has he has all the confidence in the world as like, and aesthetically, he looks like a tough shot maker. you know he thinks of himself as a top shopmaker because of that that physicality and things like that.

Those are the things I think that are going to really impact whether or not he's able to make a leak. Because I personally want to see him really start to think more about you want him being aggressive. You know, we want him getting to the rim. Obviously, you talk about the spacing and things like that. I kind of wonder if this is going to be like a Sixers process era Sixers type team where they are just bludgeoning people on the inside. And it's not overly pretty. We think about successful basketball as having some aesthetic quality. In recent memory, that's been the case, I think.

Sure. But, yeah, for, for Ant, I would like to see him. I would like to see him with some space. He's going to have more of a lob threat. You know, last year, Minnesota really struggled with having any kind of like an over-the-top threat. I think they were one of the worst lob teams in the league. Yeah, Nasree is good for a lot, but he's not going to, not going to go get it, you know.

Yeah, he's not going to get up there and go get it. What's interesting, though, is, is there enough available oxygen on Minnesota for them to have potentially three all-stars? That's an interesting thing. Do we see Gobert and take a step back? Yeah, I mean, that's an interesting question. I mean, the thing that I keep coming back to is the, you know, the de-low factor in all of this and how, how okay is he going to be if the, you know, off.

Offenses keys are sort of if even more, obviously more possessions are going to go Edwards way if the, if the coaching staff and Edwards and the organization has their druthers, right? But somebody's going to be out there holding the ball. And DeLo's not short on confidence either. And I think still, you know, sees himself as a guy who can make plays at the ends of games and things. So I, I, I, my concern, like, I'm not. one of these guys who thinks you can only have one ball handler, right? Like in the modern NBA, you know, all your guards got to be able to do something with it whenever they get it. If you want to have any kind of, you know, lengthy run in the postseason, it's like the,

the days of the specialists feel like they're pretty much coming to an end when it comes to, you know, high end, high end playoff teams. But like it, it, I don't, I worry about Edwards being able to get the reps that he needs if D. Lo is out there taking possessions. But I, you know, I would also be happy to be wrong on that. Like if, if Delo could could could downshift into more of a distributor and just kind of like just be happy getting off the ball pretty quick, spotting up, you know, like let it get back to you. You can attack some closeouts. You can, you know, do some, you know, you can get, you know, Gobert coming over on the run and stuff like that, whatever.

Like, there's, there's, there's, I think there's a world where he's really, where he's, where he could be a really, really good part of the team. He's going to have to guard, right? And he's going to, he's going to have to be able to hit shot. He's going to have to be able to make open shots. And so I, like, I don't, um, I don't know. I feel like I'm saying very obvious things in a way.

No, there's a lot that, uh, there's a lot that, there's a lot that seems obvious. I mean, with with this team, but there's a lot of, I don't know, sometimes the obvious choice you hope that a player would make it. But as you were talking about, it's not always a guarantee that they will. And like self-awareness can be a plague for some guys, like in the NBA, you know, like their ability to see what they are. I mean, Russ is the biggest and you're a Russ expert basically at this point. And at all points. But DeLo has the aesthetic. of someone. I know I'm saying aesthetic a lot on this pod, but I think that he has the fluidity and

the feel of someone that seems like if willing, if willing to do the things that you're talking about to get off the ball quickly, to move and to be a spot up guy, not to be a hardheaded sort of an ISO guy. There are going to be enough ISO possessions gobbled up on this team, I think, you know, and it's going to get his touches. Kat's going to get his touches. I feel like those, he's definitely third among those three. If it just seems like that's a hard transition to make, you know, once you've lived your life as a basketball player and you, you played, you've played a lot of basketball in your lifetime.

It seems like that's a really hard transition for people to make, right? From from being ball dominant to embracing that role that we're talking about. And I, I mean, I would imagine, I mean, if you think about it in the context of like his, his entire time at Minnesota, right? He gets brought in, like, he's brought in as sort of, you know, hey, cat, we love you. This is how much we love you. We love you. We love you this much. Here's your best friend. We love you. Please stay. Don't leave. And then I'm sure in, you know, he's not that, he's not, he's not far removed from the All-Star season with the Nets, right? it didn't go well in Golden State, but you talk yourself into change of scenery.

I'm getting to play with my best friend. He's going to be having a lot of eyeballs on him defensively. So maybe I can eat, you know, whenever he's catching doubles and things like that. I think he was probably like, all right, I'm fixing to take off again. And then Edwards comes in and it's, and he's just better. and he's he's and and and it's and it's and almost worse than that he's he's there's there's there's not a chance in the world they're probably very few timber wolves fans right now if you ask them hey who do you like more anthony hours or de angelo russell i imagine yeah i'm sure there's

some guy out there with de lo and his twitter handle and and he's just like search constantly searching twitter and i'm sure i encountered those people all the time of like Yeah, I'm like, really? You're a George Nyang truth? What is this? There's there's somebody for everybody out there. No, for sure. But yeah, that's kind of the, like, I think that to answer your question, I think it's probably a very, very difficult adjustment for him to make. And it's and it's having to accept, you know, certain things about the rest of your career, right? And whatever contracts you get in the future, right? Like, it's like, hopefully he sees the way for him to. to elevate his standing in the league and the way to become a player that's like a consistently winning type of guy. Hopefully he just sells out as much as he can defensively and sort of, you know, decides, oh, I'm going to be a souped up version of myself at like as a passer the way I was at, you know, Ohio State or whatever. Like it, like there's a world where he's really spraying the ball around, right?

Like I really think he's, he has the, you know, maybe not on some, you know, Yokich level or anything like that, but he's a really, really good pastor when he wants to be and he sees things other guys don't. And I some creativity to him for sure. Yeah, I think so. And so I, I would, I would like to see him lean a little bit more into that, you know, look for your shot just as just a tad less. But yeah, yeah.

Totally. Well, we ended up talking more about. low. I guess, yeah, that's not. Do you know what? Oh, I did have one thing I want to say about Edwards. I still, that gave Vincent dunk that didn't count that should have counted. I do, I do think that as like a basketball public, everybody, they don't have to count the points.

It doesn't have to count in the game. But I do think that there is something weirdly that does happen whenever a charge is called, even though everyone agrees like, oh, that's stupid. That was amazing. that shouldn't have been called. Somehow when the charge is called, it does kind of negate it being discussed later on. You know what I mean?

Yeah. And it doesn't. Stricken from the record in a weird way. It doesn't change the fact that what happened already happened, right? It's not like he missed that like these situations where the dunk was missed. We just got to start agreeing to like that, like there's, that should be on every best dunk list.

It can't be where it's not just because it didn't ultimately the two points in account. You know what I mean? Everybody in the play was in agreement that they were trying their hardest. Right. The ball went through the goal. We all just got to decide. Like that should have been one of the best play SB nominees.

That's one of the greatest things I've ever seen that dunk. Like it, you know, they're there, it, it, we got to start deciding now we know better. Like we do. Sometimes we do know better. The mental impact of something that happens that's technically a violation is definitely a thing. I mean, like, well, you think back about like the Georgetown Ewing thing where, you know, he kept goaltending and they were like, oh, those weren't actually blocks, but I mean the, you know, the impact of what happened there.

And is a guy that has that kind of, that that is kind of a transition that I hope we see that, like his credibility within the basketball world is reaching like clay level saturation. Like, I mean, like his approval rating is just through the roof. Yeah. I don't know anybody. No, the rotten tomatoes has got to be 100%, right? Like he's certified. Yeah. Yeah. Like he's he's, he's, uh, because it's it's the there's like a there's like a joyfulness to him too. You see that he's having fun and that's not nothing. Like it,

you know, it's it's it's yeah, he's he's a he's a, he's a great, great hang, you know, to watch play basketball. He's a lot of fun. Joyous, joyous. Before we move on and talk about some more guys that could be potential all stars and the and the discussions that will follow. We're going to take a break. Okay. So another guy here, it seems like the hardest thing to do. I was kind of looking at like age ranges. Like it seems like 25 is like a little bit more rare. You know, we'll see guys. You talked about like, does it really count? We'll see guys kind of hop on the all star team this past year. We had a few guys that were subs that jumped on. DeMontas Sabonis was a first time all star. I guy at the gym one day that was arguing with me that DeMontes Sabonis was is going to be a

hall of famer. He was like really passionate about this and he was like he's an all-star. I was like, he was an alternate. I mean, you know, I don't know. I'm not trying to like dog. But it also brought back memories of I think I was in like sixth grade. Just commenting on like the alternate thing here. Right. I was in like sixth grade and we would we would pick all-stars for like baseball or whatever it was. And then we would play in like this all-star game. And then we would play in like this all-star game. I remember I played really well that year. Like I wasn't a baseball guy, but I thought I'd killed it. Yeah. And I was the alternate on the team. Like they only one. We had all these people on the team and I remember just thinking, I would rather have

just not made it. Because like, if they bring me up, it felt kind of like pity. Yeah. The alternate status, there are a lot of good players in the NBA. It's a totally different thing. There's contract incentives. But yeah, that's kind of, that's kind of, that's kind of it seems like that's kind of a wiggle room where guys can jump in. Do you remember, there's no way that you should stay in the podcast. Do you remember that he played at Oklahoma State? He came out in, he was a senior when I was. Brian Nash?

No. His name was Obie and like a Muenalo or something like that. Do you remember Obie? Do you remember that? He was like a, I think it was a McDonald's All-American kid. We should cut all of this. Brian. Are you talking about a loo jimmy man?

You remember that guy? No. I don't know if I know the guy that you're talking about. This is the worst podcasting in the history of the world. Was he an alternate in the McDonald's game? No, like he, it was literally like one of those like, hey, you're to, Oklahoma State was like, you can't play in this All-Star game. What are you talking about?

You're too important to us. And so they said, hey, Tyler, come play in this All-Star game because this other guy's too good. And I remember thinking like, this happened to you? This happened to me. And I remember thinking like it's not really like I'm not actually one. I am I am not actually one. And I think that that's what he was thinking during that time. I think that he was thinking probably like, yeah, I'm here.

I'm going to have a good time. But you do probably have in the back of your head the whole time that you were an alternate. Right. Yeah, you get in there and you enjoy yourself. I guess the erroneous move would be to get in there and try to get like 20 shots up, you know. But you're not even going to get the minutes, right? talking about a sub bonus. If a coach plays Sabonis more than, you know, 18

minutes in an all-star game, like I'm sorry. As a viewer, I'm furious. I don't want to see Sabonis in an all. I love that. Sabonis is great. He's, you know, wonderful, back to the basket post player, plays pretty hard. I'm into it, whatever, but I don't want him in an all-star game to

take, you know, touches away from somebody who can fly. Well, talking about guys that we do want to see an all-star game. that are fun. One one that we were discussing in our doc that I thought was interesting is, it would be early for this to happen. I think that we would need to see some like guys maybe received from all star status. I mean, this past year, we had some, we had some interesting guys that bumped on to the all star game. Andrew Wiggins was a big one. Fred Van Vleet, Jared Allen. And we also have some guys that are going to be potentially returning to the all star game in like

dame, Dame Lillard, Paul George, Kauai. I don't know about Bradley Beal. We'll see. Kate Cunningham is a guy. It would seem pretty ahead of schedule if that were to happen. But what would be the case for that to happen in your opinion based on where we are right now? I mean, I agree that it would be, it feels like it's going, that it would be a tall task for him to get to be an all-star this year. I think that the way that it would happen is they start off super hot, his shots falling immediately. Like there's not there's not that little time that he had at the beginning of the season last year where he's trying to get his sea legs right. Like if things are if things are falling from the jump and if that team like I think that there's a world where with Ivy and Duren like those guys in transition with Cade is going to be such a party, I think.

and I really, really, I mean, he's going to be throwing lobs left and right, I think. And a part of a part of plays that give people's attention. And I think that that's a big thing in a weird way. I think that, you know, I think he'll have a bigger footprint, you know, among fans, if only because of that. Because I do think that they'll play a pretty, a pretty, I think they'll run, right? Yeah, you think so. It would surprise me if they, if they didn't.

And so it, they're going to be a physical team, I think, but I do, I think they're going to have, I wrote about this in my notebook that I expect them to kind of have a duality about them where they're going to have that, that open floor sort of capability with Ivy, like get it off the rim, let's go. And at that point, Kade becomes a spot up shooter, which I, that the key is perfectly capable of. But they're also going to have the half court kind of let's play some chess options because of what Cade is as a playmaker. I think that Cades, you know, how casual he can come off sometimes. And I don't even mean that as a negative, but just like he's he he seems unbothered by, you know, a lot.

You're not going to see him get too high or too low on the court, right? And there's a, it kind of manifests itself in this more methodical way that he can play in the half court where it's he's he's he's he's he's you know they're they're not these big like um peaks of athleticism or these like you know quick twitch bursty kind of moves where he's just going to overpower somebody and so there's not that typical force that can come with one of these young lead ball handler you know six seven and up type of dudes that, you know, project to be able to be the best offensive player on a team that could really do some damage. He doesn't have that same kind of like he's not

as explosive, I guess, maybe in that way. But I think that what that is going to happen is it's just going to, it's just going to mean that his, when he starts putting up these, I think that these like, you know, 22, seven and six lines are about to start coming. And I think they're going to be really quiet. And I think that it's, it's, it's just a matter of how loud can the pistons make him and will they win enough, right? I think that they, I don't think that they, I don't think they would. He's going to go. Well, I was going to say he's going to need a bump in that area, I think, like, they're going to need to have. And I think like the, the exciting tandem element to this of him and Ivy has a lot of potential, has a lot of league pass potential. I wanted to talk about

a guy near and dear to your heart that I'm sure you're going to have a, you know, a take on on this one. A guy that I think is, was arguably worthy last year. There's some, there were some people that were making the argument that this could have happened. Shea Gildes, Alexander, seems, you want to talk about scoring, you want to talk about that sort of implied offense, that guy that can, has a mode of getting buckets that is perplexing for teams stopping. Right. Do we, do we think that like the bump up talking about bumps up like in terms of a young team getting better?

We didn't, we didn't see Shay in summer league. He's like the, one of the only Thunder players we didn't see in Summer League because their whole roster is young. Do we, you saw like favors out there. It's so funny. They just all want to play. From what I heard from the intel that I got was that all the Thunder

players wanted to play. I mean, yeah, I mean, that's, yeah, everything you heard was that Giddy was like, let me play and chat, and chat, same story. So I don't know. I mean, that's, you know, that's, if you're, if you're an organization, that's, that's, that's what you want to come out, right? Like, that's, um, but, but, but yeah, I mean, it. Real hoopers. Yeah. Yeah. Well, what, what kind of, what kind of leap do you expect from Shay this year? Do we, do we expect another leap up or do we expect them maybe to stabilize a little bit in terms of you got another offensive option there. We see his playmaking grow. I know he saw some growth this past year. I had a pretty tough year from three on higher volume. What do we expect from Shea and specifically

where? Where do you see him growing if you do see him growing? I mean, I think I think the leap. I think the leap happens if his shooting falls in line more with where it was at the end of last season than it was, you know, sort of before he got hurt. And, And it's that's that his shooting last season when the ball wasn't going in. That's kind of the first time in his career where he's been that bad. And I think that an aspect of that was just defenses were completely sold out trying to stop him. And they knew he was what the thunder had, you know, particularly off the bounce, right? Like if you're like it's,

teams are selling out that Thunder had next to no shooting around him last year. So it's not as if whenever, I mean, any, I mean, and you know how good he is at getting into the lane and, and getting to the rim and stuff.

But it, um, uh, he's, he's seeing so many bodies last year. Whenever he's doing that. I don't think he's going to, I don't think it's possible for him to see as many this year.

You know, Giddy's shot still has to get a lot. better, but the shooting around him is going to be improved, I think, across the board. I, you know, Chet is just going to be a better shooter than whatever bigs we had out there last year. The, you know, the new guys, Jalen Williams, like, you know, he's was, that shot seems like it's going to translate. It, it, it, it, I'm, I'm hopeful, you know, Trey Mann is a guy who is, who is, who is, who is, is, was one of the few, you know, you know, know, shooting bright spots. the team last year. So I think that more space is coming. I don't think it's not like it's going to be,

you know, like the open range out there, right? But I think it's going to be more than it was last year. And so I think that if only because of that, I expect the percentages to definitely, the shooting percentages to definitely take a leap. I think it's just like whether or not he makes it, I think will ultimately just be a matter of if they win enough games. I don't know that they will. I don't know that they will. But he was definitely putting it on. And I think what you're saying, if you read in and kind of lean in and look at the numbers

closer, because a three point percentage is not totally indicative. Like if you look at that number just at face value, some of the things that you described, I think are true about the types of shots, the situation, unless you're just like a transcendent shopmaker like a Steph Curry who can make him in in any situation who can create him for themselves. He's not quite that player. I think you're kind of trying to get to a level of tolerability on that point. Like keep him honest. I don't expect Shea in terms of his mechanics. Of course, I've heard some optimism about his growth there. But if you look at him as just a catch and shoot three point shooter, synergy has him at 41.8% from three last year on 55 attempts, which is great. But if you

look at the dribble numbers, it goes all the way down to 27% from three. So, you know, in terms of creating them for himself, I think he just kind of needs to be good enough. Honestly, in that way that, like, Drew Holiday is a guy that I think of as a guy who just needs to be good enough. We don't expect you to be hunting them, things like that. Sure. Because Shea is a guy who gets to the rim. Yeah, I mean, She's already got, you know, so much craft and kind of wiggle off the dribble. and when he gets into the lane,

he can be so confusing for other teams that I think that, you know, the addition of these other offensive weapons and just like, you know, guys naturally getting better, Dort naturally getting better, you know, Dort, weirdly being really solid from the corners last year, from everywhere else, you know, not so much, but from the corners,

you know, weirdly pretty good. And so it's, it, it, I, I, I think that with Shea, it'll come down to just how good is he going to be able to be late shot clock situations off the bounce. Like what kind of escapeability is he going to have and how confident is he in his shot? I'm still of the opinion that the poor shooting last year. That right now, if you look at his career as a whole, like that's the aberration, right? Like that's not the rule. That's the exception.

And so it, it, I'm, I'm still feeling pretty, pretty confident, honestly. And in where, where he'll be as a, as a shooter this year, I think it's, yeah, I think it'll just be a matter of, like you say, there's, there's, there are really, really good guards in the West. And, and guys that didn't make it last year. And who knows if, you know, I don't know if Chris Paul has another year in him or not to, to be up there. Maybe not. I don't know. But, yeah, it, it, it, it, uh, it. Who knows? Who knows?

Yeah, a lot of good players in the league, and that's what it can kind of come down to. And for Shea specifically, I think he's going to be in a good situation. The configuration of the of the personnel, I think, is lending itself to where there's not going to be immense pressure on him to become like a big time playmaker. If you put Shea in a position to be like, get to the bucket, you know, hit hit, hit three's in ISO, occasionally maybe late shot clock, maybe if you're hot one night. But if you think about the playmaking, they added, you know, Chet obviously has, has more passing credibility than I think people realize Jalen Williams is a natural point guard, grew up a point guard. Giddy, as we know, is a great point guard. The shooting part of it, hire Chip England. Maybe that'll be a big deal for him too. So we'll see. Let's talk about a couple of bigs here. Evan Mobley is a guy that was what you said was one of the first people that came to your mind. Do we think that Mobley, I think, has a chance to be like a transcendent special defensive player. Sure. I think that he has potential to be like defensive player the year at some point.

Do we think that what kind of offensive threshold do you think that Evan is going to need to pass for him to be to enter this conversation of like the elite of the elite in the NBA? Or is he always going to kind of hover in that, you know, Garnett was a big time score at different points. I brought up like Keralinko. One of the one of those just like super, super high in. role players as opposed to superstar, bona fide superstar. Yeah. I mean, I think it's, I think that you're right in that the deciding factor will be like, can he become a real deal play starter instead of just an elite play finisher, right?

Like he's got it, if he makes an all-star team this year, he makes it on the strength of his, you know, amazing defense and that Garland's going to be. setting him up for a lot of stuff. And I just, I think that he is a very active player. I don't think that necessarily right now he's going to be the type of offensive guy, right, that's going to, like, isolate on somebody and go get a bucket. But I think because he is so active, he does, he can find you extra possessions in ways that other guys who might lean more towards the, you know, face up on the perimeter, you know,

bounce, bounce, pull up type of dudes might be able to do. I think that he can, I think that he can get his shots in ways that some of those guys might not be able to. But it's, yeah, I think it's just going to all come down to how were those just flashes whenever he, you know, catch you on the perimeter, lift, bounce, and hit it from, you know, 15 or whatever. Like, is that, is he going to be able to put together these, you know, dribble combos on the wing and be able to get some space enough and have enough confidence and a shot to be able to do that? I don't, I don't know. The thing that makes me very bullish on him just as like something that

beyond just a special role player is I think that I think that sometimes because there he does still move a little stiff sometimes even though he is so athletic and he can jump so much like there is something he does kind of play like up and down a little bit and it and it can it can he cannot look quite as like um you know jaguar fluid as some of these other types of dudes and so I think he's mobile but not super elastic right elastic is a great word. I feel like I hear these guys say like he doesn't play with a lot of bend. I don't want to say something like that.

Like I know at all what it means, but I imagine that's kind of what they mean. But like the Mobley thing with me, like there was a play against the Grizzlies last year in Memphis and like he kind of ducked in on Clark and it wasn't really a broken play situation. It was kind of like a secondary break kind of thing. And, and you know, Garland kind of attacked, backed up and, you know, Mobley flashed at the right time kind of caught Clark sleeping and goes up and goes up just with the left and kind of like palms it with the left and Clark, you know, knocks him out of the air and it's a, and it's an and one.

And Mobley finishes with just one hand with the left, hits the hand one. And it was the type of thing where like it didn't seem lucky. It didn't seem like the, that that kind of touch with the offhand was something that like he knew what he was doing there and and and that's the kind of close to the rim aerial type of touch that some of those big dudes just don't have and I think that that kind of stuff is that kind of finishing ability like if he's able to actually get knocked in the air and like double clutch and things like that like that suggests on athleticism that it might not, it might, it might not look as, um, as smooth as some of the other dudes, but it's still there. You know what I mean? Yeah. I don't, I don't think that there are many,

we, we can hold seven footers to sort of a wild standard sometimes based on what is out there. You know, if you think about like, we'll talk, we do this with a lot of position types. We're like, well, that's six nine guy. He's not really fluid off the dribble in the same way Kevin Duran is or Paul George. We're talking about percentages of players that are very small. And I think you hit it on like the the athleticism thing is that like Mobley has incredible mobility like in terms of like his range of movement and his command of his body is really strong. But I don't think that he is the same type of wiggily off the dribble type player as as like a Janus. But there just aren't many of those guys out there. So when I see when I see Mobley, I look at a guy. I look at a guy.

who has, I think it's very possible that Mowgli could make this lead because when I look at the growth plates, which is kind of what you were describing, when I look at the different areas of his game, I see him potentially becoming a high post operator who can make that like 18 footer on a play where he has a matchup he likes. He's a pretty good passer already. I see him as more of a pace player getting to the rim rather than somebody that just like cooks somebody off the dribble, you know. Right, right. I see his, I see his spot up capability being his shots a little slow. It's a little mechanical. He's got kind of a slower wind up into it. He's a lob threat. But if you look at the ways that he scored this past year, it was primarily as a role man,

as a cutter, as a spot up guy. I do think defensively he could make a leap and be, he already was one of the better interior defenders in the league this past year. Right. But in terms of his IQ and things like that. It's not fluky. I think he's going to figure things out this coming year. Like he seems like that type of a bright kid. Well, he's one of those guys, like his like instincts in the air too defensively. Like his, like his, like his thinking while the offensive player is in the air still. You know what I mean? And ability to contest. And like his, the range of his contests, particularly whenever a guard's trying to go by him or something like that. He's, yeah, his takeoff points, he doesn't matter.

He doesn't need a lot of space to be able to get really high and to be able to contest something up at the square, right? Like it's just, it, the, the, the, the, yeah, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not, not And he can meet people head on as a rim protector in a way that like somebody like Chet, I don't expect. I don't expect the same thing from Chet. Like, like Mowgli can repel like guys much heavier than him at the rim because he's a little,

he has that like sinewy kind of like lean strength in a way that is sneaky, he's going to get folded up. Right, right, right, right. No, it, like he, he, I was going to ask you, what do you, I mean, obviously Jared Allen was great for for Cleveland last year and an awesome story and I like him as a player. I, it does feel like there could be a world where putting Mobley at the five in certain situations is the better play, depending on how some of their wing dudes develop and everything like that, whatever.

But like I, I would be super interested in seeing what he looks like as just sort of the lone big, you know, after, you know, he's got a whole other year of NBA or a whole another offseason NBA strength training under his belt, all this stuff, right? These guys have finally been able to have somewhat of a normal kind of offseason like dudes used to have. And so I, do you think that they'll, what do you think that'll look like, I guess? Well, I guess if you're going to do that, the thing that would motivate you is, obviously to try to get more mobility and like ball skills on the floor. What what lineup question?

What what lineup would you be aiming at in that situation? Like who's going to be your four in that situation? You're going to have like marking and be a spacer there in that in that situation? Yeah, something like that. I mean, if you wanted to just go super duper small, like put a coro there, I guess. I don't know. I mean, it, a cora at the four is interesting.

Like that's, that is fun. I like, I kind of favor like chaos when it comes to these young teams, especially when it's like, you know, they don't have to be in, they're already winning, but they don't have to be in like some win now kind of mode, right? Like I hope that there's a lot of experimentation there. And they, because I think that could be a team that if, you know, they could, they could be a lot of fun in transition. If they, if they let themselves play with, you know, pace and stuff like that,

I think that that's, and I should, I mean, I'm talking, I should go check and see what they, I don't even know what their pace was last year, but it felt like they were just a little bit more of a half court team just because of those two bigs, right? Like it wasn't a lot slower last year, 26 in the league, 96.1 was their pace. They, you know, talking about teams working with big guys and like working with their configurations, it's kind of similar to what Minnesota is going to be facing. But they were able to make it work because, you know, they had three guys that were 611 or taller on the floor at the same time.

I think they were they all true seven point? Maybe, maybe not. But yeah, yeah. A quarrel at the fourth thing is really interesting, but I definitely think that he's a guy that could make that leap. Before we wrap up here, is there anybody else that you think is a dark horse that could be kind of putting you on the spot here?

Is there a dark horse guy that you think could sneak in that maybe we're not talking about that could have a big leap this year? I don't know. I mean, I think it's like Scotty's a guy that I can't. It's hard for me to like, It's hard for me to quit him. I don't know. Like I know that he's he's the type in the, in the, in the, you could ask the same questions

about him that you did about Mobley. Like is he just going to be the most sort of high end version of a dude who might not be able to go get you a bucket whenever you need it or whatever? But I don't know. I, there's, I see a world where he's, where he becomes, you know, a do everything guy, not in the same vein as, not, not on the same level as Janus, not, not, with that kind of like, you know, he's not a blockbuster like that, right? But I think that the overall game there is there's so much that he can do and he's fun and he is

capable of producing highlights. And he's got a very strong fan base at his back. like there's just a lot of contributing i i i also just think he's in not in the same way that anthony edwards is is a different kind of like ability right but there's like i don't know if you if you saw the the video that they did whenever they let him know that he won six man of the year but the reaction from the rest of the team is just like oh they love this kid and and and it was you know it was a very like he he he just the vice I seem really good there.

So I, I, I, there's something about him that I, it, it, it makes me think that, um, if the rafters do get back to, you know, if they, if they're, if they're, if they're, if they can win enough games, I could see it. That's my like dark horse like, he could be the totem, sort of the all star totem. Yeah. It's, it's interesting to think about the guys who are close that like are a little older. Like, I don't know that I, I necessarily, I expect Ealing green to have a pretty productive season.

He's not an older guy. But Aiton, was a guy that I thought with the Pacers in a different scenario. I don't know that I see his role expanding enough in the All-Star sense with the Suns this coming season. But his kind of dynamic with Halliburton, I think, would have been pretty interesting to see if he could have made another leap up and potentially get there. And that was just one that kind of came to mind for me.

Yeah, Halliburton is an interesting guy, too. I like the Pacers probably, you know, same story as other. things we've said like aren't you aren't going to win enough games and i don't know if there's and who knows if the scoring numbers are able to get you know up there enough for halliburton to where it would make sense but he feels like the type of guy um that if he uped his volume and is able to do a little bit more off the bounce uh you know beyond on the three point line, you know what I mean? Then I think that's the thing.

Yeah, I think that's the area for him. I think that there's a world where if he becomes a dude who's taken seven three's a game and he's able to actually, you know, have some escapeability off the dribble, then I just could see a world where that happens because he just doesn't make mistakes. And he's going to, and he's the type of guy that'll fill up a stat sheet. He's not somebody who I think that. that you're, you know, some of these guys, you can, you, in the past, who are these, you know, borderline all-star dudes, you can take some sort of like people try to take some moral stance

against like, well, they don't guard or all they do is shoot or whatever, like that sort of stuff. Like, you know. Right. And Halliburton's just not that. Like, he's just a very, it just feels like the type of guy that's just a complete, um, just solid across the, across the board. But I, I don't know. I still think that he's got a level that he can.

that he can go to that's that's that's that's um more explosive than the one that he's at yeah talking about like growth plate like things like i like guys who show like adaptability and like intelligence i think is a really he just seems like a really sharp guy and i and i think he has a lot of the same kind of like temperament temperament and questions similar to kade in a way i think like he's just very level headed the if the shooting comes around and gets consistent well not comes around him he's a good shooter he has been a good at every level, basically his whole life, I believe in the shooting. But the opportunity is there for him, too, to kind of upgrade and jump up. So anyway, yep, this coming year, going to be

going to be fun to watch these guys. It's one of my favorite things to watch every year, just to see what the young guys are going to do. It's fun to, it's fun to see like, oh, there, it's good. It's, it's going to happen. Like when, you, you know, when it's, that's, that's an exciting thing when they start to really, really consistently string a bunch of of, you know, games together where you start thinking like, oh, this is, we were, we need to readjust the ceiling.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, what's going on in Tyler Parker's life? What are you working on? What's, what's summer looking like for you right now? Tyler, Tyler Parker's life, I'm working on some stuff. Nothing, nothing going up on the site imminently,

but the, but yeah, we're working on some stuff. It's, you know, it's, you know, it's, it's, it's the cat days, right? It's, we're not, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, uh, yeah. So the, um, yeah, I'm just, I'm getting, I'm, I'm, I'm recharging my batteries, you know. Right. Yeah. Well, about you. Oh, just working on big projects, just trying to stay busy, stay limber, get this house healthy so we can, we can charge into the fall and start thinking about the coming NBA season. But, uh, hit us back. If you have any kind of opinions on, uh, guys that you think are going to make the leap, that you think are going to have big seasons, maybe. be someone unexpected that we didn't talk about. But follow the ringer podcast fee. We're going to be kind of intermittently having things come up here during the off season guys checking in some random pairings. That's been our big thing in this podcast, this off season. But Tyler, it was good to talk to you, man. Good to see you. Dude, thanks for having me. Always good to see you.

Yeah, buddy.