The Ringer NBA Show - A March Madness Primer for NBA Fans | Group Chat

Episode Date: March 17, 2025

No Justin this week, so Rob and Wos are joined by J. Kyle Mann. Kyle walks the guys through some of the best NBA prospects in March Madness, what to make of Rutgers’s star duo, and much more. Hosts: Rob Mahoney and Wosny Lambre Guest: J. Kyle Mann Producers: Isaiah Blakely and Ben Cruz Social: Keith Fujimoto The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Rob Mahoney. That is Big Was. And with us, not Justin Verrier, not today anyway, but our spirit guide into the unknown that is college basketball, Jay Kyle, man. Kyle, what is up? I'm not trying to cast aspersions right out at the gate. I don't know where Justin is.

You know, I'm not trying, you know, I don't want to ding him right off the bat, but I'm always willing to if it's Justin. So anyway, I don't want to linger on that. But I'm just wondering where he is. So, but I'm happy to shepherd you guys through, through this. this new frontier of new names and figuring out who's who's who and what's what. Let's do it. Let's do it. Let's get it done. I think Justin's ducking you.

There's been a lot of chatter about how intimidated he is to be on a podcast with you and how he feels a little shaken up whenever you pop on group chat with us. I mean, you've heard this too, right? Justin Vary is shrinking violet as a human being, a podcaster and as an editor. So this is part for the course for what that guy does on a day-to-day basis. Well, I mean, this wouldn't be draft season or I guess, technically March Madness season. If we weren't calling people soft,

if we weren't calling people not ready for the big time. And Justin's going to have to take a few strays here just because he's not in attendance. But Kyle, we really need your help. I guess selection Sunday has already taken place. Is today's selection Monday? Is that how out of touch you are? You don't even know if it happened?

I know that it technically happened. I know that you technically podcasted about it on one shining podcast. I know that the NBA draft guide. Some one call it podcasting. Yeah. I know that the NBA draft guide is fourth. coming. Do we have a date on that? It is coming. We are going to launch our first 14. We're going more prosy. So we go into some

detail with our writing. Danny and I split the duties and I curated the top 14 and then we're going to do it. We're going to do it in tears and then the second half. So there's a lot more, there's a lot more writing. So we're going, even though it won't be, we're going deep early and that's how we're going to handle it. So yeah. Well, all the more reason that people like Was and I need your help. Because normally I am leaning on the draft guide, especially hard, basically from now until June. But until it's up, as I'm, as I'm, look, I'm not going to, I'm going to be honest with you.

I am not planning to tune into a ton of March Madness games. Waser, are you going to be locked in during this season? No. Will I be locked into March Madness or have elected into college basketball? Well, are you going to be locked into March Madness? Oh, yeah. Definitely the first four days of the tournament, the first four, uh, two rounds. to me, that is the money spot where basically there are games on all day long and you get the

great upsets and you get the great stories. I'll definitely be locked in for that. My appetite is maybe not as great as yours. I need to pick and choose or else I start getting a little bit queasy watching some of the comebacks and some of the decision making. And so, Kyle, we really do need your help to figure out what we need to watch. What is actually important? and we've concocted a little bit of a game today that I call prospect concierge. Waz and I are men of very particular tastes. Yep.

Sometimes you need help meeting those tastes, finding out how to fulfill them, where to find exactly what you need. And so we have a series of prompts, Kyle, that we want to give you as far as where can we go to find this very specific thing that we need as NBA purists to really hit the mark in this March Bandness season.

How do you feel about that? I feel good. It kind of makes me feel like I've never actually worked in a record store, but this makes me feel like someone who has, I don't know, soccer moms coming in and I'm trying to explain. I'm trying to explain new wave to them or the maximalist movement of the late 2000s. You know, it's just that, what would I like? I'm like, well, you might try, you know, washed out or I don't know. I'm willing to do that for you guys. But yeah, let's do it. I know, you know, I don't have as much of a problem. with watching lower levels of basketball. I don't totally understand your level of snobbery on that front, Rob, not to Cassus version.

Can I explain it to your direction? Well, what is it? It's bad. It's very bad basketball. And I don't, like, why would you settle when we can be here crunching NBA tape on a daily basis? I can be, I can be living and dying with the best players on all of these college teams and what they go on to be, even if it is a member of the Charlotte Hornets. well I just enjoy seeing things in their earlier forms I've explained this before like I don't

you know I might see a band that's not quite there they haven't written their masterpiece yet but there is fun seeing the inklings of things and then and then tracking them as they go you don't have to be not everything comes out perfectly realized you know I just think that's not a that's not a totally fun way to live in my opinion so I find it exciting to be honest I think Dan early has had a sort of impact on the game in terms of professionalize the offenses specifically. Like it just looks more professional. I watched two of the SEC tournament

semifinals games from my hotel room. And both of those games were pretty well played. Like the one ended up being a mega blowout. But like I'm watching, I'm like, oh, okay. Like these guys are running tertiary and secondary, you know, actions and guys aren't dribbling it off their foot every other possession. Like it looks like realer, you know, more professionalized NBA type of offenses than it ever did back in the days. Especially early on in the one and done era where like teams just were just like, look, we got to get talent through the door. And actually forming a team becomes a secondary proposition.

unless you're like, you know, basically a mid-major where none of your kids leave and you have minimal amount of turnover. And so I think it's gotten way better in that regard. Yeah, I think in the broader sense, if I could comment on what you said there, I think it speaks to why you've probably heard even from afar that the SEC has been very, very good this year in basketball. And a big reason for that is that a lot of the powers who were good last year had returning players. And we've got the COVID thing going on. overall my point is just that the SEC is old so I think that the basketball at the top has been very high quality Auburn who is a contender who is was the number one overall seed in this field they have they have a lot of older guys they have one dude who's 25 years old so we're not seeing as much of the one in done

air like you said we're not seeing a lot of the the teams that are just you know 10 deer on skates it's it's not watching that tragedy you know shit show play out over the course of a season we're seeing more confident at basketball, like Kentucky, for example, is very old. Tennessee is old. Florida is a very good team. They're old. Alabama has a lot of old players. So if you're wanting Rob to, you know, poke through the fogginess of your snobbery to watch something that is going to be palatable for you that you can stomach and swallow and digest, a lot of teams are old, but the SEC in particular is pretty old.

And I think the basketball has been pretty fun to watch. I'm not trying to give you too hard of a time, Rob, I'm sorry. No, this is why you're the go-to guy at the record store. You have met me at my soccer mom, and you have found something that is appealing to my particular taste. And so I want to start with that kind of broader parameter. You know, we have all of these different prompts we want to get through. But first, Kyle, who do you think is going to be the group chat favorite out of all of these potential draft prospects? Like, who is the guy that Waz and Justin and I are going to be raving about, whether it's at Summer League, going into next season?

Who is going to appeal to us? I have a number of answers to this question. I mean, the first one pertains to an exercise that you guys do year in and year out. Now, will this guy be the best player in this class? I don't think so. I would be very surprised if this happened. But I think Danny Wolf is a very fun player for Michigan. Danny, are you familiar with Danny Wolf?

That would be my first question. Somewhat, wazzy, seems like you're going to draft him very soon. Okay. I just pulled up his Google search. Did you not expect him to be white by his name? I did not. No, Danny Wolf, let me just give you the 35K look at here. He is a seven foot,

like he's almost like a euro, basically. He has the most sort of Danilo Gallinari-ish game in this class. Danny Wolf is a seven-footer and carries over a 20% pick and roll load, which is pretty unusual. Michigan is an interesting team. They run a dual seven-footer pick and rolls. He's very crafty. His shooting is up and down, but I think in the white American draft, I think that he is going to be somebody that you guys are going to love. In terms of just players who I think strike some of your all's winning sensibilities, I think that Colin Murray Boyles for South Carolina is a very versatile defender. He's an odd player. Offensively, it's going to be kind of a question of what his role is going to be on the offensive. but he's he has long arms he has these just vice grip hands he's very strong he's somebody that

i could see being a major pain on the defensive end those are two that come to mind just immediately was where do you want to start with those two um i'd want to start with the danny wolf for sure i'm interested in one do you think michigan's going to do well in the tournament because that's another thing. A lot of times these drop, it's two things. Like, a lot of times the best players are playing on teams, especially back in the days, young teams, a bunch of freshmen, they get beat early on. You don't even get to watch them have a nice tournament. And then the other thing, and I don't think this pertains to either, I don't know if this pertains to either one of these guys. Sometimes a player comes out of nowhere, has an incredible tournament, and now he's on everybody's

radar like why aren't we drafting this kid do these guys fit into either one of those molds wolf for something that I'm right for the ringer today actually I was just writing about his highs or so he's a super creative passer like he makes passes off the bounce facing the basket typically when we talk about guys his size we're like okay pick and pop

big can probably be pass you know out of the short corner to spray it to the sort of the time I'm doing this with you can't really see to the to the top of the key or to the opposite side of the floor. You know, those kind of like whip skip passes. He faces the basket and makes live dribble reads and passes that are pretty unusual. The main thing with him is that he's very, very turnover prone. In non-conference play, his turnover percentage was 29.9.

And that came down to a much more encouraging 20 in conference play. So he has a tendency to there are some, there are some eggs that are getting broken when the omelets are a lot of eggs. And eggs are expensive, as we know. In the NBA, you can't be breaking a lot of eggs. It's true in our country and in the NBA. So I think for him in the league to be productive, I think he's probably going to be in a more narrow role.

But I think once they get him into a more streamlined role where he's not carrying as heavy of a load, I think he's somebody that is going to have like social media moments next year because he can make some passes. Like, did you see that? You're texting your buddies. Yeah. He's that level of a creative passer.

What position is he going to play? It says on certain places that he's seven, feet tall. Is that true? I haven't seen the exact measurement, but if he's shorter than 6-11, 6-10-and-a-half, I'd be shocked. Gotcha. So he's a legit. But I do, I think he'll play four. I mean, he has good defensive hands. I just think he shoots the ball. He's erratic. He, you know, he's sort of a 35-percent-ish kind of a guy. But when you watch the shot, it's not lightning quick. He doesn't hunt them. Sort of the balance in his, breaks yourself. shot diet isn't as three point heavy as you would expect you know you kind of would look at him and see his skill set in the passing and things and be like okay it's probably a stretch for but he's more of a handler who sort of has shooting in his bag um i think he could improve as a shooter though um so you're saying he's a fochie main type is his player comp is that's vuchavitch that seems un uncharitable just like not because vuch is bad but because you're saying it was when you say the vuch cop i know that's an insult

You got to know the bond to know how the insult they're right. I'm just asking a question. I do worry about that though, Kyle. Like, I'm extremely well-versed at this point in roughly three highlight reels. Granted, based on that data, that the wide-ranging tape crunching that I have done, I do see like the off-the-dribble game looks incredibly impressive for a player his size. He feels like the exact kind of big that is going to be challenged in that way, where if he's going to be face-up on the perimeter,

NBA teams are probably going to make him hit those shots before they start honoring him and letting him put the ball on the floor. And so I'm really eager to see him in any variation of NBA dribble handoff offense. Like anything that's going to get him moving into the middle of the floor in spaces where he's not having to create so much for himself, I think you're going to be really exciting. But NBA defenses are tough on bigs. And if you're a stretch big and you're not hitting at, you know,

say above a 34% clip, most of the time they're just going to kind of live with whatever you could put up. Yeah, I think the big thing that's going to help him avoid being tested in that way is that he can dribble into his own, you know, he can play back to the basket some. I just think once you narrow his role to the point where he's not dribbling two, three, four times against the set defense the way that he does. Like Michigan needs him to play that way. And I think that's why they put up with some of the wastefulness in the way that he plays. I think that once you narrow it and he's somebody that can get, he doesn't need the, ball thrown to him. He can sort of work his way to his spots. And I think that's the biggest advantage that he has. Even if a team dares him to do that, he can handle the ball well enough that I think if he gets a small on him, he can get into the middle of the floor and sort of take advantage. And he's a pretty angular score. I will say in a half court, or just not even just the half court, he's only dunked six times this year, which I think is a pretty interesting thing.

You can kind of take that as you want because he's not an awful score at the room, but he's pretty good with either hand, but he's often avoiding the defense. So I think he's going to have to improve in that way. But I don't know. I kind of feel like his ability to handle the ball is going to neutralize some of that, some of what you're talking about. That's kind of my expectation there. Yeah, you mentioned his high usage for Michigan. What has his arc been like in that regard? Has he always been that kind of player for them? Is that a different role that he stepped into? Because, I mean, he is one of the upper classmen of this draft class. I mean, he's been this from beginning to end. I mean, they came in that the guy that coaches Michigan is Dusty May. He led Florida Atlantic. I don't

know if you all remember that. He led them on a pretty crazy run to the final four a couple of years ago. And he, he's a pretty, one of the more respected offensive minds at college. So I think their vision for him coming in. And when he came, he's not somebody that was an unknown that sort of just became something at Michigan. He played at Yale before. How do you guys feel about transferring from I'd be hesitant to transfer from Yale to, I know that I sound very, very Kentucky when I say Yale. But But when would you want to, how do you feel about transferring from an Ivy to a nut? If you're not seven foot, I'd advise against it. No, I'm just saying for the degree.

That's my point. Yeah. At least the guy's seven foot and has a high probability of making it into the NBA. Like, once you're seven feet tall, like, you know, the likelihood that you're going to go to the NBA and stick around is just much more likely than some jitterbug who thinks he's going to be the next Allen. obvious and like stop it brother like go get you a degree get some grad school up in you hey man try to be a fifth year senior what's the monetary value of losing

that Ivy League on that diploma that's kind of yeah I think it I think it depends on your language he can still say I went to Yale he doesn't have to explain that he then went to Michigan you know just just a little a little fact of omission like a little lie of omission I think it'd be totally fine for him to kind of fudge the truth on that he did go there and and also

Ultimately, look, yeah, a mid-first rounder salary, if it turns out to be that for him, seems all right. Yale degree or no. Michigan, nothing to sneeze at either. Absolutely. Really good school. Yeah, yeah. That was you casting aspersions on Michigan, Kyle. Wads and I would simply never.

Just curious in the future. I just wonder how that all weighs out. So another player type that Rob and I had discussed of always being interested in and tantalized by is like these skills. build bigs who, you know, they don't master one, you know, sort of trade, but, you know, they can dribble it. They can shoot it a little bit. They pass it. Have good feet, play defense. We're thinking about the wear kid from Miami.

Obviously, Jalen Johnson is a type. And back in the days, we would just all, we would compare all of these guys to Kevin Garnett. But now we're smart enough to know nobody will ever be Kevin. Garnett, do we have any of those sort of player types? You're Chris Bosch's. You're Anthony Randolph's, if you will. You're talking about, I mean, we're in the list here. Oh, so Jalen Johnson type is what you're talking about.

Yeah, yeah. Right. Okay, okay. I was like, there's no Kevin Garnett type. I was trying to think, well, I was just trying to think who even has come close to the Kevin Garnett type in the time since. It's like A.D. and Evan Mobley? Yeah.

I mean a little Jaron Jackson too That's a good one Jared Jackson was getting a lot of Tim Duncan KG comparisons very early on in his career Thankfully those comparisons have ceased to exist And none of those guys passed like Kevin Garnett Like the full complete skill set package Is basically impossible

Yeah I mean I would say Yeah Jalen Johnson is a little bit different He was one of these guys that fell into a category of what I call weird year guys Where you know for a while we were getting this with the with the you know super creative out of the box innovative name that i came up with there but um jalen johnson was playing for duke during the covid year and he left he was an r scii top 10

guy so it was a weird situation evaluation wise because people were like all right why did he you know there's a stench of leaving your team but it also was covid and then he he didn't really set the world on fire even though he was good but he did show that dynamic skill set we don't have anybody that's you know jayin quaintance is a guy for arizona state who is in next year's draft to keep an eye on and we'll circle back and talk about him later at another time. But there's Carter Bryant for Arizona as a really springy dynamic guy. But this is a weird one that if he decides to come out, this guy, I think, is one of the more well-rounded players in this draft. And his name is Yaxel Lindaborg. I know that sounds like something from a Star Trek RPG game

from the 90s. He is a guy who just started playing basketball, not that long ago. He was a Juco. So he's got this weird just i'm always intrigued by these dudes who start late i don't know what his family situation was i mean like siakum is the all-time example of this who started playing basketball late but then you start investigating and you're like okay he was the younger brother and a team in a family full of division one players and it's just weird arc but linda borg is uh he's six foot nine. He can really pass the ball. He's got a really sturdy, solid frame. He rim protects really well for his position. He has like deflective hands. He was one of the more productive players in college this season. But he has, he has kind of the broad shoulder that I

expect him to guard fours and guard up the chain rather than down. But I think he's a really, he's a really fascinating player. I'm so weirded out by the fact that, you know, in your little bio blasts, as you just explained, he. is kind of new to the game because in checking him out, he has great feel. He does have like a do a little bit of everything game. He looks like a player who actually knows what he's doing, which for colleges I have articulated for me is not something that I feel like I see very often. And so for him to have that given his experience level, even with whatever caveats may come

with that kind of skill set, I am, my ears are perked. I am interested to see what he's capable of. All right. Another, and by the way, this is very group chat of us to be 22 minutes into the pod and not mention a single one of the top five draft prospects. What else are we doing here? Set the table, we'll do it, we'll do it. Another type of guy that I think teams often fall in love with is the sort of toolsy,

super athletic, physically gifted guy who hasn't shown much feel for the game. hasn't shown that they're going to be able to nail any specific sort of NBA duty, whether it's having a tight dribble distribution, shot making, you know, paint, like they haven't shown it, but physically have the gifts that, you know, a team of GMs and scouts are going to get this guy in a workout and be completely wowed by. Do we have any one of those kind of prospects? Honestly, I think of somebody like Dennis Smith Jr.

Who, you know, had everything. The physical package, jump out the gym, blew by everybody. Nobody could stay in front of him when he was at NC State. And it just never came together in the NBA. And in the ways that it does for other people, you think about a Russell Westbrook type, who basically people thought he was going to come in and be some, you know, defensive.

Yeah, designated stopper, hustle player. is crazy kind of guy he comes in and ends up being a 30 point of game kind of guy at his peak do we have any of those sort of use cases right there well i was going to ask you do you think uh do you think dennis smith played the right sport i've often wondered if he should have been like a corner or like for his physical tools like if he should have played football because it was like he never he's great but i always kind of wondered if he was one of those guys that maybe couldn't quite couldn't quite carve out his lane in basketball i don't know i think dennis Smith should have worked harder at NBA point guard skills in the offseason.

Not unfair. Also got hurt, we should say, in a way that derailed his career. That's fair. And I think he made something of himself. As a defender, at least, like really came back and was kind of about the things that would get him back in the league. It's kind of a shame that he has got a place to latch on. Yeah.

That wasn't going to happen. Like people thought, and we're talking about like MVP Derek Rose, not that Derek Rose who made himself into a role player after all of the injuries. We're talking about peak Derek Rose, impossible to guard Derek Rose. And people thought, like, he had that kind of potential in him. And the physical stuff was all there. You know, it was scary when he would just detonate and just dunk on guys at NC State. But it just never came together as like a – because he had to be a point guard.

Yeah. You know, and he just never put that kind of skill set together. But I think that's the answer for Kyle's question right there is if you're getting Derek Rose comps as a point guard or you can play a frankly unglomerous position on a football field in which you were probably most known for the one time you screw up and get a bad pass interference call. That's that's your biggest moment in the sun. I think a lot of guys are taking the Derek Rose comps. It's interesting though in the past few years how I think if you got a Derek Rose comp today, how that much the game has changed. Would you feel like in 2009 if somebody said, that about a player, you would feel really excited. But today, how would you, how would you,

how would your basketball, Spidey Sins react if you, if somebody said, oh, he plays a lot like Derek Rose, even at, even at peak? So to me, playing like Derek Rose is just, you're just like John Moran, you know, like, to me, John Moran is sort of the evolution of the Derek Rose, Russell Westbrook, kind of, point of up, but John Moran came in with so much more point guard. The stuff that we associate with point guards, he came in with so much more of that, which I think makes him such a unique kind of play. And most of the time, these athletic ball handling guys don't have Jaws feel and core vision and playmaking. I kind of think that I always argued with people around that draft who would compare him to Rose.

And I always thought that Morant was more of a crossover between like Rondo and Iverson because you get Rondo. feel and you get the bendy, you know, wiggilyness of Iverson scoring. I'm vastly underestimated Morant's scoring coming into college because, or coming into the NBA because he was such a, that's what people forget. I think about him watching his college tape was there were the donks, but my God, he was a pick and roll surgeon. He just, he really, really was a fantastic passer. But speaking, rounding it back to what we were talking about. This is somebody that I think can get the people. He's he's provocative. He can get the people going. This is. If you watch VJ Edgecombe for Baylor, you know, he got on the NBA and the national radar back in the summer playing for the Bahamian national team.

He's six foot two. He, you know, we were talking about Danny Wolf having six dunks on the season. VJ. Edgecombe has 32 half-court dunks on the season. This guy gets into the lane and he is so fast off of his feet. He's going to be probably in the like 95th and up percentile in the league in terms of like explosion. So he's he's shown some some fledgling skill across the board in terms of, you know, on the season. Oh, Lord. I just watched what he did to Gonzaga.

Jesus Christ. Sorry, white boy. That was mean. He's a little scary. He's one of those athletes that once he gets into the air, you're a little afraid that I don't if you guys ever seen the sixth man whenever the, what is the, what's the character's name that he propels him so high, he like hurts himself on the backboard? Like there's sometimes where I'm like, is Vijay Edgol going to hit the backboard?

backboard and hurt himself. He's that explosive, but he's not just a raw athlete. I think some of his some of his tools remind me a lot of like a, like a Victor Oladipo, honestly, before all of the injuries in terms of what he can get done at his size. But he's on the season, you know, in catching shoots, he's 37.6% from three. So he's somebody that, you know, whether or not he grows into an initiator role, I don't know, but I think that he is going to add disruptiveness. I do think that he's a student like he wants to improve. And I don't, I don't sense a selfishness in him that would derail him.

So he's somebody that I definitely could see somebody working him out and being like, holy moly. It kind of in the way that, look, he won't slip like Cam Whitmore did. He's going to go top five. That's what I was going to ask you. Where are people big boarding him right now? It's usually in that three to five range. There are some people who look at him.

And, you know, I kind of wondered if somebody would, you know, ding Dylan Harp. Ron Harper's son who's in this draft. We can talk about if you want. I don't know how much you guys know about him. But he's probably just... He's one of the Rutgers kids. Yes.

He does... You know, Edgecom doesn't show enough feel and skill to, I think, to justify putting him that high against a Harper. But he does have enough tools, I think, to get somebody to take a chance on him pretty high, I think. Just not quite top two. The beauty of the tourney, it's the underdogs. The chaos.

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Fanduel.com. Gambling problem? Call 1-800 gambler or visit rg dash help. dot com. We play the game all the time of like, where would we want Cooper flag to go among the teams that are going to be at the top of the lottery? And we're starting to see like a really firm floor. And why is it Utah?

Well, this is kind of what I'm getting to. It's like the four teams that are separating themselves are Utah, Washington, Charlotte, and New Orleans. That's kind of going to be the top four in some order in terms of the draft lottery lots. Now, that can always be shaken up by the ping pong balls. But if that ends up being the four, I'm curious where we want to see edge come of that group.

because I think about Utah as a team that could really use that sort of pop. They could really sort of use the propulsion that he's bringing to the table. And granted, yeah, it doesn't seem like a totally complete player as far as the driver of offense goes. But they need some of that burst really badly. Rob, you quickly jumping off the Kianti George train. So crazy. Are you guys off? Are you guys off the train?

I'm not as dialed on Utah Jazz this year, even having been out there. But what's the, yeah, what's the vibe on Kiante? I'm not off the train. I'll tell you what he was last year. The train has jumped the tracks a little bit. Oh, shit. There was a bit of an exchange and someone didn't pull the right lever and all of a sudden the train has careened into a ditch. It's just polter express.

It's just winding around on like a frozen lake and like we're all going to die. I have a four-year-old. You can tell I got that pull that express that quickly on the brain. No, I mean, I'll tell you what I surveyed and I haven't watched him closely this year. Last year, I saw somebody who showed some passing feel at times was a pretty erratic shooter. And he didn't just. And he didn't do either one of them well enough in sort of concert with the other to to put himself in a position to make reads and consistently like threaten the offense.

Like he was very up and down as a shooter and as a finisher. And I kind of wonder if he was being miscast as probably like a tertiary ball handler who would give you some scoring rather than somebody that could be a full-time decision maker. Like has that stuff gone off the rails this season, would you all say? A little bit. I think the balance of his game, it was like the, the, the, the, things that we saw of him late last season in terms of some of the pick and roll creation, the balance has teetered, the decision making has teetered, the jumper overall just has not

been as effective. It's been a very weird Keante George season to the point where I think they should continue to invest in his future. He just shouldn't stand in the way of them drafting someone like Vijay Edgecom if they believe in him. If they believe in what someone like Edgcom can bring to their back court, then I think it's absolutely worth exploring. And I think the one thing that I'm wondering, Kyle, you know, again, I'm operating off of a highlight standpoint. And so Fiji Edcom's highlights are tremendous. As you say, he is quick off his feet. His version of athleticism, to me, is less like vertical explosion versus horizontal propulsion. It's like he's jumping from outside the lane and dunking. And as you mentioned, guys are clearing

out of the way in a way that may not always be the case in the NBA. And he's going to have more athletes who are, you know, at least a step closer to his level that I'm a little concerned about. But what I want to know, I think most is, based on the footage that I've seen, he's a guy who really gets after it, who has a pretty high motor. Is that a highlight? He's known to try on that end. I think that's what I'm wondering. Is that a product of the plays that I'm seeing? Or is he someone who is hyper athletic and also hyper motivated?

I think he's very motivated. I think, are you seeing Utah needing sort of a disruptive, switchable backcourt guy? Is that what you're saying? Or somebody in transition who can finish plays? They need some on the ball juice. They got all kinds of juice, to be frank. I don't know that he's going to be that in the short term. He's a long term.

And I think what you're talking about with Keontay, I don't think it hurts so much that Keontay isn't quite manifesting into that because they got him at where they got him in the draft. If they had taken him top five, I think it would sting quite a bit to pivot like that. But I think it was a worthy gamble for what he could be. And maybe he'll stabilize into a lesser role. But I think Vijay, on ball juice in the short term,

I would not put my eggs in that basket. As we said, eggs are expensive. So I would say, but keeping him around, he's not going to solve their problems. If they get a chance to get a Harper or a flag, I think they've got to go for it. But if they find themselves in that 3-5 range, I don't know that there's a ball handler

that is going to just day one change their lives, honestly. So let's talk about the top of the draft then. Like I've been monitoring, not very, closely, but I've been monitoring the Cooper flag thing and all of the people who I trust you know, guys like Hollinger, guys like Vasini,

everybody is more convinced than they were going into the season that this is the guy. He's kind of been better than advertised which everybody seems to agree on.

What do you think that he's shown this year that has sort of shoring him up as the clear cut, you know, nobody is getting in the way of this number one pick. I think the big thing to monitor here with him is that when we came into this season, and I'm just going by like what my expectations were. I thought that he would be somebody that would, I didn't know even necessarily that he would lead them in scoring, but I thought that he would be somebody who would just sort of chip away and add a little bit of playmaking, you know, a little bit of pick and roll creation here,

some spot up stuff. But his passing at Montverry last year, he was more of a guy who was coming off of off ball actions and getting to the middle of the floor, having an advantage created for him and then exploiting it. Granted, he was playing with four first round picks on a high school team. So that was, that can, you got to factor those things in whenever, whenever you're thinking about what he looks like and how to like read into it. But at Duke early in the season, you know, the most impressive thing, taking a set back here, the most impressive thing for me has been the first. fact that he has downloaded there has been no sort of moment that hasn't been impressive. There's been no moment where you've seen like. He's, he has not felt stressed by the amount of data that has been downloaded to him. Granted, there's been a big deal made about how young he is.

His birthday is in December. He just turned 18. He was 17 in the beginning of the year and and showing. And there really has been no latency like lag when you watch him in terms of the information he's a smart player he's unbelievably competitive i was saying this one on bill's pot i think that he's a culture setter i'm a big believer i don't think this is controversial i'm a big believer that culture trickles down wherever you are i don't you know whether that is a an organization it doesn't even have to be a sports team i think whenever the person on your team that's dictating um you know what's being done in in whatever setting you're in whenever they are great at what they do and whenever they either by example or by force, you know, we've had some, we've had some discussion

about whether you want to be a Tim Duncan or you want to be a Kobe, whichever the way is the right way to go about this. The obvious is Tim Duncan, but go ahead. People seem to like Cooper, but Cooper also, I think that he just raises the standard of wherever he is because he is just very, very competitive. You can watch his body language, but circling it back to just on the on-court stuff, I wondered in the beginning of the year, foolishly, if they were overburdening him with the pick and roll stuff. And I went in and month over month because he was having some issues.

You know, early in the season, he was getting in crowds. He was turning the ball over in some critical spots. I wondered if maybe they should dial it back, spread those other places. Duke was just like, no, staying the course here. They kept him in a lot of pick and roll. They added some more. They weren't having him staying around when he didn't have the ball. So he was doing the same stuff.

His connective passing is very, very good. creative. He sees the floor super well. But I have this in our guide, actually, that month over month, his pick and roll reps didn't go down. They went up, and his efficiency also went up substantially. So he figured, I like to, if you can, if you can find the evidence, I like guys who are able to obviously very clearly demonstratively figure things out. And Cooper has done that in his year in college. Like, he's carried a huge usage role. He's been the best defender probably all around in college basketball. That's crazy.

It is really wild at his age. He's averaged 20 points a game. I have a question defensively. Is he more Evan Mowbly or is he more, I don't know, OG and Nobie? I mean, those are probably, those are pretty high standards?

I'm saying like, are we sure he's like, I mean like, position. Who is he going to be guarding? where like, you know, OG can guard up, but mostly we're sticking this guy on wings. And same with Evan Mobley, you know, he can, he can guard down, but mostly we're sticking him on Biggs. Which one is? Are you the wing who can guard Biggs or are you the big who can guard wings?

I would expect him to sort of hover in that 2, 3, 4 range. He is a little skinnier, like, in his lower body than OG. I've made this point in other places that he he doesn't sit in the chair quite as well. Like he doesn't get low and shuttle quite like. Rob's smiling. I don't know why. Sitting the chair is the most Kyle man, Kyle man thing I've ever heard in my life.

That is a very standard basketball. It's sitting in the chair. That's all that is. Yeah. That's when you go to basketball camp and they're teaching you defense, that's the analogy they're going to use. He can get low. He doesn't get as low as an OG and he's not quite as strong. But he is a very, I had a scout, I'd never heard someone say this before,

but the first time I talked to a scout that I really, who told me about Cooper Flag, he said he's a hyper processor. I was like, I've never heard anybody say that before. Wow. And we have to import those usually. Hyper processors. We don't make those on American soil for the most part. Well, normally we talk about supercomputers.

We're talking about offensive guys. We're talking about guys who see the chessboard. But his awareness and it's interesting because you start to just think about different types of thinkers. you start to think about, you know, there are people who just have fast recall. I think you encounter this in day-to-day life. And then there are people who are just conceptually quick on their feet, like, you know, like the best podcasters are.

Like they can think quickly and in real time. Like I wouldn't say- A Justin very type, you mean. Yes, yes. So, but Cooper, Cooper information comes in. I wouldn't, I don't know. I haven't interviewed him. I haven't done a psychological profile on him.

But I would imagine he's not like an ADHD type person. Like he focuses, he is very. present on defense and you watch him and he he is so aware of what's going on. I think that's why you see so many like spectacular blocks from him or spectacular out of area plays where you're like, how the fuck did he time that? He just perfectly times things despite not being a Vijay Edgecombe level athlete. So he's he's going to be somebody I think that he can put out fires on the defensive in rather than being maybe like a one-on-one stopper. But I mean, Scotty Pippen is a type guy that I think He's not going to, he's that type of extra ball handler, extra creator, can guard multiple

positions, can play off the ball. That was my main comp for him and the guy. I think that he's going to be, he could be, he could be like a fringe all NBA player and not be like the primary for whatever team he plays for. He's that type of winning player. That'd be tremendous. Do we not think he has, he has on the ball efficient go-to score potential in him? Is this completely ruled out or do you just think it's not?

No. It's not ruled out. What's Kyle was saying, if the pick and roll usage is going up and the efficiency with it, that's a great sign for someone as young as he is. Yeah, it's like, is he a wizard? Is he like a maestro? Like there's another guy in this draft in terms of passing who can manipulate. He's not quite to that level of manipulation where he can, you know, pry open windows,

partly because no one can really stop a lot of his first options. Like, you know, we don't see him having to get into those. But he is absolutely, I think that is what's so remarkable about him is I would no chance what I bet against him becoming a primary. There's just no chance because I think the main thing that's in between him becoming a primary is just the ball handling and the shooting really. If he becomes a knockdown shooter, like Jason Tatum is the comparison that I made. Jason Tatum wasn't a consistent shooter when he came to the league. And Cooper is a better passer than Jason was at the same age. So, yeah, I think you'd be a fool to bet against him becoming a primary option, honestly.

I don't have a lot of games circled at this point, but the possibility that if Baylor makes it out of the first round, they would play Duke in the second round and we'd get Edgecombe and Cooper Flagg on the same court. Grants at very different positions. But like, that's what I need. Is he going to play? Is his ankle cooked? Is he fine? Edgecombe or no, oh, flag. Yeah, for Flag. Intel is, I don't know. We'll see. But, I mean, Duke's good. Duke would be.

I may eat these words, but I feel like Duke would be Baylor by 30. It'll be an interesting first half for me to watch. To do a little preliminary scouting. Anybody that can bother Cooper, but he may not even have to play. I think that Duke could beat Baylor without flag. So they could ice flag for the first couple rounds and be fine. But Kyle, you kind of threw the lob on this one about Cooper Flagg's passing ability and overall that there are some other guys in this class who are very, very appealing.

that particular way. Who would you say is the best passer of this draft class? Because we are, we certainly gravitate toward those types across the positional spectrum. Well, that was, yeah, you were saying who, who are you guys going to be wild about next year? And I guess that would have to, that would assume that I would have a really keen sense for your all's value set. I mean, if you're talking, if you're talking passers, um, well, I mean, I told you about this guy. Rob, you seem to have a strong reaction. So I'll say his name. And then I want you to, I want to hear your raw reaction to Yeager Dimmon from BYU. Now he has questions, but Yeager Dimmon is the 6'9 point guard. He played for Real Madrid. He's one of these kids who got pulled into their feeder program. He got brought over here to play college basketball, which is a nice development in college that some of these really good European prospects are coming over. There are more of them that we can hit on. But Yeager is very skinny, but he is inconsistent shooter. But he is by far the most creative passer in this draft. He can make every type of pass. The big thing is, you

for me is that he can crowbar open passing windows and he has a probably i said this early in the season i still think it's true he's the most creative passer i've seen in college since tyrese alberton back at at iowa state um he just i'm jealous to these people who have this ability who just seem to know where where the ball where they want the ball to go but they also have this active other part of their brain where they're like what what lever do i have to pull yes to get this person to move how do I do it and then what pass do I throw? His brain is, I don't know where in life you develop that skill.

I never did. But he's not that that is any kind of real variable in this discussion. But he's, he's a great live dribble passer. He's, yeah, Yeager Dimmon, remember the name. He's a skilled one. He has that a very particular combination that is attractive to me, which is, as you say, the ingenuity is off the charts. like the vision and the like the high level passes he's executing are very impressive.

But he also has such an easy like read and understanding and facility with the game. And so it's like he's making the little functional passes that keep offenses moving in a way that reminds me of like Franz Wagner coming into his own as a playmaker. He's probably more on the shooting end of that tilt than the driving end of that tilt. It seems like just from watching him a little bit. But overall, the fact that he can make all of those little connecting passes, but also make. the next level shit that really high-level players, even his peers in the NBA, can't necessarily make.

That strikes me as a very, a very interesting playmaking combination for a 6-9 player. Okay, but I got a question, though, like, if he's deemed to be not good enough to be your full-time point guard because Kyle called him a point guard, is he going to be a Josh Giddy type

where he becomes so much less useful when he's not always on the ball? he actually be effective when he's not the guy sort of driving the primary actions? You're teeing it up, Was, I mean, this is the crux of the conversation. Early in the year when his shot was going down, I was, in the first few games when his shot was going down, this is crazy, but I was, I was like, he, he's going to have to be talked about it, number one. If he was, it'd be six, nine and he's being, and he's making these shots.

Yeah. But that, that's the problem is that, you know, his assistive usage is, off the charts 1.43 which is insane for that's one of my favorite stats you know take a take a big swig take a drink but you know from three he's been very very up and down uh he shoots a long ball he back rims a lot of threes i don't know you know if you're a shooting expert that's a funny thing about shooting staffs in the NBA is when you talk to them just universally they're confident there's there's almost like a girl like you know there's like the girlfriend boyfriend boyfriend i can fix them thing i feel like among shooting stats or they're like i know i know we can fix it's

him. But, you know, he's, the big thing for him is the scoring. If he can prove that he's a scorer, he could maybe graduate beyond that Josh Giddy. I said, you know, Sean Livingston is another guy like later in his career where you get all of the facility and all of the court vision. But he developed that beautiful sweet mid-range. Yeah. Yeah. Can he do something like that? He's very young too. So Livingston actually body type wise reminds me of him a lot. Like Livingston never graduated to that full-time role, but you get all of his vision. It's just kind of against a set defense. Is he going to be able to score enough? I'm pretty dubious of that because if you, the book on him has been get into his body

and in the big, you know, in the big 12 at times, it was hard to watch because teams would just come at him. And these are grown men like we were talking about. But he's got to prove he can score if he's going to do that. Yeah, that kind of profile does make sense to me as somebody who isn't necessarily creating the advantages, but is kind of extending them, right? If he's the guy getting the swing pass after the initial action. He seems like a great lob pass or he seems like a great connector. He seems like he's going to be able to find shooters at the NBA level. All of those things are very exciting.

But yeah, he just may need a little help kind of getting off the block, so to speak. Yeah, he had to play this season where he's had this happen a couple times where he will get, he will turn the corner on somebody. He's thrown the, he's done this more than once where he'll throw a scoop off of the backboard to a roller. I've seen him, I've seen him throw a contorting what looked like. He's just saying that I'm watching it. He just literally just pick and roll.

He got 45 off of the backboard for a lob dunk. He does stuff like that. You know, in a different system, I mean, he's going to be dared to shoot. So we'll see what happens. But it's not broken. You know, he has pretty decent touch, especially if guys are passing the ball overhanded and they show a lot of touch. I feel like there's like overlap there between that and their ability to potentially develop.

So I think if he falls in. of that somebody's going to take a chance on him around in that like seven to ten range in my opinion and if they have the luxury if it's a team that already has you know that is lucky enough to have some of these picks uh and they already have something existing in place that works absolutely i'd pick him up because he's he's going to do all the stuff you were saying uh i want to get into the ruckers kids um because you know just casually they've been in the the conversation basically since the year started as the two guys behind Cooper Flag and you know Dylan Harper specifically being the guy that's that's been deemed number two talk to me about what he brings to the table and why we

shouldn't ding these Rutgers kids for being top two picks but being on an absolute shit team all season it's that's one of the like really the pressing questions about this draft is you know if if Dylan Harper is so impenetrable in terms of you know you know is someone going to get up there and challenge him, how much do we read into the fact that he wasn't able to steward a team or raise their floor? How much, if he's an implied full-time ball handler the next year, should we, how much should we ding him for that? Granted, he was in and out and miss some time here and there,

but he's a guy, I think, that is probably going to be like, I think he's going to be a second option on like the highest level quality team, maybe a third, but he's somebody that, I don't know how much I would ride his playmaking, but in terms of his superlatives, he has some of the best close range decision making and body control of any prospect that we've seen in recent memory. In terms of his efficiency at the rim, you know, he's six foot. He has awesome size at six foot six. But he was 73.3% at the rim this season on 131 attempts. He knows where his bread is buttered. If you watch him, despite. He is a very solid, strong frame. He's sort of a 6-6 Brunson guy. That's kind of what I've compared him to.

He plays off of two feet better than any guard in this draft. And I think it's going to translate because he is legit size. I mean, a 6-6 jail and Brunson sounds pretty fucking amazing. I'm going to be honest with you. That does sound like an impenetrable case. That's a, well, actually, you say that out loud. And it's like, well, okay, that's a primary option, I guess. That also implies that, I guess that sort of gets to the idea.

that your primary option needs to be this hub of all your playmaking comes from one person, which is a flawed way to think about it, right? Sure. Yeah, he's definitely a bad guy. You know, there was a time on Twitter where, you know, does Janus have a bag, blah, blah, blah, bag. You watch this kid, and he is unquestionably has a bag. He has counters to his counter.

It's kind of crazy. Aggregators, you heard it here. Wozny Lambray just said that Dylan Harper has a bigger bag than Yana's onto Dekumpo. Clip it, post it, spread it around. It's just kind of crazy to be this young and have his footwork, down pat, the way that he does.

Just the way that he's able to get into his moves is amazing. Yeah, I think Jalen Brunson is an interesting cop. You know, other people will say, Shea Gilgis Alexander, I won't, but I get it. Like this guy is mega crafty on the ball. Do you think he's going to have the sort of athletic umph to be able to overwhelm NBA defenders at any point in his career? I don't think that that's how he operates.

Shea is such a unique case just because of, um, there's never been another Shay. No. Yeah, his slinkiness and his, he just put you in prison in terms of it. And Shay, She has the ability to, She's not getting up over the square to dunk the ball.

You know, he just, he imprisons you with his start stop. Harper has physical, I think that he's going to be much more of a pace player. He can't get to the rim and finish in traffic and dunk it. But he has a similar combination of physicality and hesitation when he's getting downhill. I've got some clips. He does some things.

He just has very mature feet, like I was saying, away from the basket too. When he, he can, he can freeze defenders and turn the corner. And once he gets you on his back, man, he's one of those guys that he can keep you there. So, but on the year, I mean, you know, he's, the shooting is the main thing with him. If the shot is going to go down, that's the biggest question mark. I think when his feeder set, he's pretty solid. So, you know, when he's coming, when he's catching the ball, one, two in place and shooting it, he shoots a better percentage than when he's moving laterally.

So like with a lot of speed and a lot of movement. So yeah, I don't think it's going to necessarily matter that he's not going to have that trump card in his in his deck where he's that he's going to have to just overwhelm people. Because his physicality and his pace are going to be pretty exceptional, I think. I feel like the ace conversation has been like star forward starter kit in a lot of different ways. I mean, what have you seen to sort of confirm that idea that he is on a serious upward trajectory? and have you seen anything to disabuse you of that notion that maybe whether it's shot selection, maybe whether it's some of the quirks of his game, are you worried about Ace Bailey at all? I'm worried about maybe putting all of my trust in him being a guy who guides my team on a night-to-night basis

because I've, you know, I know I'm repeating myself from things I've said other places, but he is sort of a Michael Porter Jr. type at this point because MPJ at that age was a very tough shot dependent player. One of the things that's stopping him from being more dynamic is the fact that he is very skinny. So when he gets downhill, you could just kind of see him fold like origami against pressure. We didn't see him move. And he doesn't have gigantic hands. He doesn't have the most dynamic handle. He is a very, we're talking about sitting in the chair.

He's very different than Cooper in the fact that their measurements are very similar, but ACE is a more lower body flexibility. He can get down. And that kind of that feeds into what I think is going to be interesting about him is that I think he is a guy that end of shot clock can make shots that other guys just cannot. He was one of the percentages aren't going to necessarily indicate it, but he got on some heaters this year where he didn't need to take a dribble. I mean, it was like Clay Thompson type like burning white hot can make shot and he can just rise up over you. He loves to play in like the short corner and go over his left shoulder, that type of stuff. But the thing for me is he is going to add plus weak side help as a rim protector.

He's very long. He's quick off of his feet. He can disrupt and bother shots. So I think that if he has sort of a buy-in on the defensive end, I think that he's going to be able to stay on the floor and add a lot of value there as those other things start to evolve. And it's going to buy him some more runway. If he goes out there and he's like, I'm only tough.

like the way Porter Jr. came to the league. He was just like playing next to Yokech. All I do is get buckets, yeah. And Murray and being like, why am I not shooting more? You know, if he comes in with that attitude, it's going to be tougher. But I think that his defensive upside is a lot higher than MPJ. So if he comes in with that mindset, he could be a very valuable player. And then that other stuff, it takes pressure off of that developing, you know.

Yeah. And the weakness is just to stay on, on ACE, because I think back in like, 2006, like he'd be the number one pick, right? Like, people would see the shot making and say, like, no, this is what an NBA number one pick looks like. This guy can get his shot off against anyone. He shoots it at all three levels. He's got the length.

He's got the sort of size that you like to pair with that kind of thing. What are the limitations that you think are holding them back all? Is it just the shot selection? Right now I think one of the big problems for him, you know, his usage was pretty high, but it was all limited to, there was nothing easy in his game. This Rutgers team only really had one other good passer on it.

And that kind of lends itself to the discussion about like why wasn't Rutgers better. His life was not made easy in any way, shape, or form. Some of that is, you know, what is your buy-in to affect? the game in other ways. Some of that is scheme. You can sort of divide the blame pie to steal one from our podfather there. You can divide the blame pie there and say, okay, he could have affected the game in other ways. But yeah, it's just, it's the handle in terms of like creating for himself. I think

that's that's one of the big things. But he, you're right. I mean, in terms of what he would have been back in the early 2000s, he's a mid-range monster. I mean, he's, yeah, like I have it pulled up here, 36% of his shots were non-paint-toes, and that's 99th percentile in the in the country. He, you know, he does, he's really more of a shotmaker. I know this gets into nerdy, jargony, kind of hoopy talk here, but he's more of a shopmaker. What are we doing here if not that? Well, than a pure shooter. So he's a mid-range guy, but I expect the three-point stuff to be there.

If, you know, the hand, but the handle and the decision-making, the other thing was, yeah, I mean, if you're depending on your, you're sort of, decision making, rippling out from him, you're going to be in a tough spot because he's just not proven that he's that type of guy right now. He just takes and makes just hard shots straight up. I am sure we're going to be talking a lot about Dylan Harper and Ace Bailey. Probably again with Kyle as we get closer to the draft and the decision time comes up with these guys.

But I do want to hit a couple more like rapid fire concierge prompts for Kyle. Kyle, who do you think is the most aesthetically pleasing shooter in this draft? Ace Bailey, as we said, a knockdown guy, a tough shot maker. Is there anyone, though, the mechanically speaking you just really enjoyed the process with? I mean, I think the prettiest shot in this draft, you could go a lot of directions with this. I mean, if we're talking about guys who are relevant that we're going to see, I mean, con can'tipple from Duke as just a gorgeous stroke, very balanced. He can shoot it in a variety of ways.

Justin and I were going back and forth about like what the hell I meant by this, But he's not one of these like shot out of a cannon, Jordan Hawkins types that's, you know, going to be shooting it super fast. And that's the thing that is his tool. He's got a very heavy lower body. He's, he's an unusual player in that he's built like, I'm trying to even, he's built like a PJ Tucker type. But he's a pure shooter. I mean, he's he's got, he's got the lower body of, I don't even know, it's going to be interesting for you all to watch him play. He's, he's a heavier framed guy, good size at 6 and 7. He's got a big booty is what you're saying. Yeah, well, we don't have to be, yeah, whatever. It's not a judgment, just commentary. He's going to be a guy who can give you some pick and roll, but he's got, I've said this, I'm excited to see if he can develop some of that administer punishment in the mid-range type stuff, like a Devin Booker style bag. I'm not saying he'll become that, but he has some of that pretty mid-range in his game.

And the other one is, although I do have issues with the way he plays sometimes, plays for Texas. I don't know if Rob has monitored his guy, Trey Johnson. at all. He's he has a very pretty dribble pull-up shooter, uh, jumper package. It is quite a beautiful jumper. The reception on his game overall seems quite mixed. Um, I have not heard a lot of like glowing recommendation of Trey Johnson's game. You as you as a longhorn having dug into the Trey Johnson tape. No, you say, you save your dessert for last, you know. That's, it's very important to me. It's going to hit close to him.

Although we'll see if they can even get into the tournament. That would be a great start and can see him playing some meaningful games because yeah they're in they're in kind of the first out group that's playing their way in right right they're in the first four but he he is he's one of the players that once he and ace bailey are the two that if they get going if they get into a lather uh they they can really really put points up in a hurry but he's very strictly face up dribble jumper doesn't get to the rim a lot talking about impacting the game in other ways i forget tray johnson's out there if he's not scoring uh some of this too is this is a little more in detail about texas as a roster. He's playing with a point guard that is not a super sharing guy. He likes to score, too.

It is Texas. I saw him in Nashville this past weekend. I was paying particularly close attention to Drake because I got to see him a couple times. He does a lot of clapping and stomping for the ball. Really, I've since Pocyshevsky, I haven't seen somebody do that. I had a whole clip holder for Pocoshevsky of him with his hands up clapping, stomping. But I'm kind of in this purgatory where I'm like, he was playing with a guy who was very shoot first as his point guard. And that's tough. That's tough when you're a guy that's a score.

I just wasn't ready for the Trey Johnson Poku comp, but this is where we end up. I'm not coughing them. It's on the, on the, wanting the ball front. A temperament comp. A temperament comp alone.

But, what else do we want from our concierge service here with Kyle? Do we have any rim protectors ready made, big man shot blocking paint cloggers do we have any of these guys boy do we have a paint clogger we have a gigantic human being and come on mallow watch for duke i know i keep saying duke over and over again that's because they're got a lot of good players yeah and also they're big he is a giant he is seven foot two uh he just he's a he's a deterrent we talk a lot about you know um guys who in terms of how they can guard you know there's guys who were just obstacles just because of how

big they are, he's on that front. When he has his arms up and he's just in the paint, you have to consider him. He's one of those nope. And he's offensively, he's fairly raw. Doesn't have much of a bag around the basket, but he's a lob threat. There are some people who have a lot of confidence that someday he could shoot it in terms of just set shooting, like broken play. I've got it at the end. I need to put it up. He might be able to get there. But he's the biggest guy. The other guy that I think is really interesting is Thomas Sorber from Georgetown. I don't think I put this one on the list for you guys. But he has the hip mobility that I'm going to say a name that I might get struck by lightning here. He has the hip mobility of someone like an Al Horford. He moves really, really well.

And I think he's going to be switchable in that three, four, five range because of that, because he has long arms and he's a good passer. So he's somebody that I think could emerge years from now is like, wow, that guy was in plain sight. And he's an NBA player. But how is that hit mobility going to be a 38. That's the real Al Horford question. Nobody does like Al, man. That's that's a tough bar. It's very true. I mean, we talk about rim protectors. Is there a great switchable defender in this group? Is there somebody you trust hanging on either side of a pick and roll, either side of an off ball action, junking up, moving across positions? Well, I mentioned Colin Murray Boyles. I think he's, you know, he's a tank. He's going to be able to, you know, guard bigger players just because you're not going to be able to move him.

and he laterally is very movable. He moves really well. You know, obviously, Cooper put that on the boxes, the list of boxes that he checks and why he's number one. Reshir Fleming is a guy that plays for St. Joseph's. I don't know. Waz probably hasn't watched St. Joseph since 2004, I'd imagine, right? Am I guessing correctly on that?

Delante West. That's right. You know, it's true of most people, but for St. Joe's. But, you know, he's somebody who, what's interesting is he was in a group with Duan Wagner's son and a guy named Aaron Bradshaw, a very prospect, a very prospect loaded team, and he is going to end up being the one who was drafted first of all of them. That's just a little interesting bullet note for them. But those are some guys. Sorber, I think, is in that group as well. But I think Ace could get there too. I think Ace has the potential to be a guy who could

become a defender on that level. I'm glad you said that about Murray Boyles, too, because we kind of, we kind of sped past him earlier as one of your specific group chat recommendations. And I have to say, His game speaks to me. The funky post-up footwork, in-between style, a guy who actually knows how to seal in the post, a dying guard in the NBA, if we've ever seen one. I feel like he could be really good to punishing switches, right? He's the guy who's going to be a big who's going to be,

I guess he profiles more as a four potentially in the NBA. It's a three-four. A three-four, and it's like if you put a guard on him and a switch, he could easily find his space against those guys, easily score inside. He has such a cool in-between game. I saw like a more refined, maybe slightly bigger J. Sean Tate in him a little bit in a way that excites me. Yeah.

Yeah, that's interesting. He's, I just, I think that I do this funny thing, not funny in that like I'm making people laugh, but funny and how stupid it can be. Where I'm looking at teams and I'll think to myself, well, you know, this team is probably going to be vulnerable against like bigger ball handlers who can facilitate. And it's like, you know what, Kyle, every team in the goddamn world is vulnerable to bigger forwards who can facilitate. And I think that these guys who are 3, 4, 4, 3, however you want to look at it, depending on who they guard most of the time, these guys that can switch on to these bigger ball handlers. And they're not jumpy. You know, I made this point about one time about Al Horford bothers Luca weirdly. And you wouldn't expect that, but it's like, Luca loves to torment people who are jumpy and Horford is not.

And I think that Boyles has the type of wingspan and the. type of mass to bother those types of players. So I think that he's going to be immensely valuable on that front. Why don't we close out with a cautionary tale? I would like to know as we're watching the tournament, Kyle, who is the guy who's kind of destined to get overhyped in the tournament as a result of a big team run as a result of maybe one good game that we shouldn't get too excited about too quickly? That's a really good question. I mean, towards the top, you know, they're the guys that have the potential to get overvalued. Like if Trey goes on a heater,

he has that real hooper energy that I could see he's going to be, I said this in our guide to spoil there a little bit who's worried about that. But he's somebody that I could see, Jeremiah Fears is another type of guy for Oklahoma who could also go on a heater and get people excited.

But you kind of wonder, is he more a Trey Mann type who, you know, you watch Trey Mann on the right night and you're like, is that the best score in the league? Right. I think I literally did that on this podcast in like November. That was a conversation that we had on right here on group chat. Yeah, those are two guys that I think for that reason that could, you know, if you catch him in the right situation.

You know, Danny Chow, who's helping me at the garden, has done a great job. He brought up, he brought up Devin, what's his name? Devin that played for the, I keep blanking on his name that played for the Nets in the early 2000s. but he he's somebody that why am I blanked Devin Harris? Devin Harris, yeah, I always blank on his name for some reason. He brought up Devin Harris too.

So he's one of the, those type category scores who on the right night you think that they're these ultra-offensive players and then you keep watching and you're like, oh, God, what's going on here? I don't want to say DeAngelo Russell, but it's that type of thing. They can fool you if you watch it in the right setting.

You'd be like, wow, that's a superstar, but you're just not quite sure about that. well we're going to be too wise for that after your briefing kyle kyle thank you so much for walking us through this as you can tell we know nothing we are waiting into this world i look forward to our continued education wise as far as who the hell any of these guys are and how they play and whether they will be good NBA players or not but thank you to kyle for taking us through it Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to everyone who stuck with us through a group chat version of a March Madness guide. This is not our usual territory, but, you know, life is all about growth. And some people are up in their pick and roll usage and we're out here trying to learn about college prospects for the first time.

Take this with you as you go about your March Madness watching. And hopefully this can be a nice primer, I hope. Hopefully, you got to watch. Otherwise, it's just going to be noise. So hopefully people watch March Madness. I feel my elitism thawing a little bit. I think I'm coming to the, I'm meeting you where you are, Kyle. I'm coming to your level.

You're not battle about this often, yeah. I can't, look, I can't help it. I like good basketball. So it's a fatal flaw in my personality. But thank you to everyone for listening. We'll be back later this week with actual honest to goodness NBA talk, although I think based on our topic, we might stretch the definition of that. So tune in on Thursday.

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