The Ringer NBA Show - A Surprise Kawhi Extension, the Bucks’ Big Problem, and Ja and Haliburton Injury Ripple Effects | Group Chat

Episode Date: January 10, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos start by discussing the news that broke during the show, that Kawhi Leonard signed an extension with the Clippers. They discuss the deal and what it means for the Clippers moving forward (3:58). Then they discuss the Bucks and the issues they’re having, specifically on the defensive end. (16:13). They wrap up by talking about the injuries to Ja Morant and Tyrese Haliburton and what the effects of those injuries will be for the Grizzlies and Pacers (48:02). Buy tickets for the live show in Indianapolis here! The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming, please checkout theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Benjamin Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Bill Simmons from The Ringer, and this is a podcast called The Rewatchables. We have been doing it. Really since 2017, it started with how much we love the movie Heat. We decided to structure a whole podcast with categories, most rewatchable scene, who of the movie, Apex Mountain, what age the best. But here's the thing. If you want the full archive, you can hear them only on Spotify for free, by the way. So make sure to follow the rewatchables on Spotify.

Hello, and welcome to group chat. Barrier. Joining me, as always, Rob Mahoney, Big Waz, and gentlemen, at the top of these podcasts, we get real deep. I want to ask you a very important question here. So if I was just yelling at too many people online and I decided to retire because I could no longer handle that, would you guys be my Adam Silvers and talk me out of it? I wouldn't talk you out of that. I feel like we've tried to talk you into social media retirement many times, unsuccessfully. Your anger cannot be contained. I would probably be more your Steve Kerr and just pull up and just cry with you.

Yeah. We would share some tears together. I'll be your like headspace.com or whatever and, you know, do a sponsored segment with you, like a recurring video series. We'll hook something up, but the important thing is we need to keep you here. We need to keep you focused on the task at hand. keep the main thing, the main thing. Dremont is not allowed to argue with the refs anymore,

or at least the Warriors are trying to discourage him from that. We're trying to keep you focused, Justin, on what really matters. And that is our bullshit here on a biweekly basis. Well, like Dremont, I'm hoping to just spin this off into content that I could sell on a podcast. So this is actually perfect. Justin's Journey, TM. We look forward to the special off-season series. We're not going to, that's not on the docket today.

but I have to ask just off the top, what did you think about Dremont coming back and doing the exclusive on the Dremon Green podcast? It's very on brand. I mean, he's clearly a pretty dramatic, melodramatic, some would say, type of dude. So I'm not surprised that he comes out and he thinks this is, you know,

the version of his mea culpa that the public so desperately wants and needs. I think most people just like just go out and hoop like a normal person hoops without hitting people in the nuts, punching people in the face, putting people in headlocks. 99.999 percent of hoopers managed to do it year in and year out. But yeah, this is Draymond, you know, his own delusions of grandeur and the importance of his own narrative and story. I'm not surprised by none of this. It is goofy that the subtext of all the questions to Draymond at this point are like, Like, how do you go about restraining the urge to put people in headlocks?

Like, do you think it's within your power to prevent this behavior? And those are questions that should and have to be asked. But the fact that we're here is insane. Let me tell you, it is possible. And I am proof in that concept. Okay? No headlocks for me these days. Not a single one.

Well, well, there's still time today. Yeah, I have to say, it just reminds me of the good old days back. when LeBron was with the heat with the calves, where like there's just something news every day. There's like a fire hose of drama with this team that we haven't seen in years. And so I appreciate a historic run here for the Warriors, if not on the court,

then off the court. All right, before we get to the rest of the show, we got some news right off the top from this morning from various newsbreaker. Rob, I think you know what that means. It was a different part of the throat you use there. I'm trying to diversify. Yeah, you know, you can't stay the same.

We're always adding. We're always growing. You got to come back a little better every podcast, Justin. I appreciate it. Well, according to Sharm Sharania, Kauai Leonard of the Los Angeles Clippers, signed a new three-year, $152.52.4 million contract extension. So Kauai had a player option for next year. He opts out of that.

Tax on three more years. so this year plus three years. No player option. Fully guaranteed. I'm a little surprised, I guess, on the one hand, Rob, if the clippers are going to keep going with this core into their new lovely building on the west side of Los Angeles, you're going to need some stars to do so,

and they're playing well, so that helps. On the other hand, this is three years for a guy who, up until this point, hasn't been able to stay on the court. So are you surprised by this announcement? Well, up until this point is I think the important part of that. Kauai's playing more or less every game, active, engaged, really, really effective. And frankly, this is elite team behavior. This is a team that's very confident in what they've been able to put together since the James

Hardin trade. And let me tell you, they have every reason to feel that confident. This team is legit, feels real, feels well balanced. and if your stars are bought in to stay, you don't mess with that. Yeah, this was just always going to be the outcome. The Clippers have essentially been committed to this iteration of the team for years now. There's no, oh, we trade Kauai and George for parts and picks. Like, no.

And of course, what's looming is the opening of their brand new cathedral of a stadium. Right. And so the idea that they were ever going to move on from this group, that was just never a realistic one, that they would open that arena with a bunch of role players and also rands like the Nets have, for instance, this year, you know, a team that famously had to, you know, take apart a super team.

They weren't doing that to go into their new arena. Their owner's rich enough to eat this. And so this was always going to happen. They were always going to extend him. They're going to extend Paul George. They're going to extend James Hard. in y'all. They're going to keep this thing on rolling because it's the only like viable option here. Nothing else makes sense. I think the surprise factor is just that they have crawled through a river

of shit and gotten to this point. They're in Zuwatineo right now and they are deciding, you know what? You know what I need in my life is another river of shit. That was actually a fun time for me. Let's just go through that again because this is a lot of long term money you're giving. to a guy who just like hasn't been able to stay in the court. And like I get it when he has played this year. We should just stop and say, Kwai's been fantastic. Very good.

Top 10, maybe top five level of player. They win when he plays. It's not a coincidence. It's just it's tough to think that you went through all of this trauma over the past few years and you're like, let's do this again. Like I hope at the very least the Bomber's hand or Lawrence Frank's hand was shaking when you sign the contract, at least Rob.

Well, what else would you have them do? Well, you could just play out the season and then turn the page. You could just say, hey, we did this season. We were great. That's it. Sionare, guys, we're going to rebuild. Why? Why would you, why would you do?

They might, they could win the Western Conference. This team is that good. I just don't see what the point of that would be. And again, you know, we have to remember the Detroit Pistons and all of this. rebuilding always sounds great. Ask the Charlotte Hornets. Ask the Pistons. Ask the magic post Dwight Howard where they spent 10 years in the wilderness.

Like, it sounds so good. But it doesn't always pan out the way that you would like it to. And yeah, I get it. We're all enamored of what's going on in OKC. But they're the exception, honestly. It doesn't always go that way when you do some hard rebuild. And again, like, you can't overstate. Steve Balmer paid James Dolan three or $400 million

because he was trying to tie him up in court over this new arena. So he just bought the forum from him. He just said, I'm done with you. Here's $400 million. Like, they were really dead set on starting this new Clipper chapter in Englewood with this new arena.

So the idea that they would just show up with spare parts and expect the people of Los Angeles to drive to Englewood to be a part of it. Like, that's insane. It's not realistic. I'm not going to Englewood. It's not realistic. And so this speaks perfect sense to me.

Now, I see, I guess I'm not necessarily suggesting that they should rebuild or that I'm surprised that they didn't just like tear it down and play through a mere coffee, for instance. I think it's just more that like, I think about the emotional toll of the past few years. And to do that again to like even most recently, Quai has an injury, misses a few games. No one knows what the fuck is going on. Like, just like, I hope at the very least they got their employees,

some of the underlings who were dealing with the day-to-day of the Kwai Leonard experience, like better help subscriptions or like massage certificates. Justin always worried about the employees and the middle management over here, this guy. I'm for the little guys, you know. I don't, I've never found that to be true. It's not really. Yeah. But this is what you go through all that stuff for.

The hard years, the injured years, the lean years of Clippers history is for this moment in time. This is the best most actualized version of this Clippers experiment yet. And it's because they finally have the playmaking that they've needed for so long. So you have the length on the perimeter. You have the wings. You have pretty good depth. Maybe not quite as much as you would like or quite as much in certain places as you would like, but a really good complete team. We were just talking about them as one of the only teams in the West that's been top 10 on both sides of the ball.

You don't give that up and you invest in it. You keep cultivating. You keep growing it because the reality is this Clippers team could get better. They're just learning each other and they're already this good. If you're able to continue that growth, that process while adding to this roster around the edges, why aren't you paying Quy Leonard whatever he wants to stick around for a couple years? Like superstars cost money. That's the way this works.

What this reminds me of was when Kyrie Irving played ball for like three weeks right before the trade deadline and then like hit the eject button was like, uh, see ya. This is like the opposite of that where Kauai has like two months

of very good basketball and he's like, all right, now pay me now for the rest of my career. That's good negotiating. It's very good negotiating. 52 million is what this guy's in. But I have to say like, Rob, you said finals.

for the Clippers. I think we both kind of talking around there. Are we thinking them or Denver probably the safest bets at this point? So I go through this exercise a lot in part because I have such

enduring and overwhelming faith in this Thunder team that I think they are going to be Denver's kind of date in the Western Conference finals. But the Clippers are the first challenger to really give that idea pause. Minnesota has been great.

I'm not trying to take anything away from the Timberwolves, but I worry about their offense in a playoff setting. The Clippers, though, they have the experience. They have veterans. They have a lot of guys who could really deliver in these moments. And you have, most importantly, the Kauai's to deliver when the James Hardens don't. Okay.

The experience they have is James Hardin's experience in the post season. I mean, he's bringing that experience to bear. He's part of the formula. And admittedly, there's a reason why I like the thunder and kind of the effervescence of their style of play. relative to the Clippers. But the Clippers are such a serious, effective, methodical team right now. I don't know how you talk your way around that

without thinking of them as a legitimate contender. What do you think, Was? Yeah, I mean, as much of, if we're calling OKC a contender, I have to call the Clippers a contender, right? Like, they have a group of players that have had way more playoff success and are reasonably close to the level of player

that they were when they enjoyed said, success in Kawhi Leonard and Paul George has been the conference championships. He's been in a huge playoff series. Like these guys have been in huge games and delivered in huge games in their past. And so, yeah, if we're calling OKC this upstart, a contender, there's no world in which the clippers aren't also. And so, yeah, I think it's nice to see that they've turned this thing around. And like, the things that they're doing on the court makes sense.

there's a logic to it, a cohesion to it. So, yeah, I'm definitely in a rob camp in the sense that, yeah, if the wolves are in the next tier after the Nuggets, then so are the Clippers. And definitely, I would say these days now, OKC as well. And just in case anyone out there is charting the continuity of the group chat cinematic universe, I said that the Clippers could beat the Nuggets,

but they won't. No, no, no. That won't be it. Who suggested that? No, no, it's just, I said it earlier that, like, this is a team that could beat the Nuggets. This is a team that could make the NBA finals. You guys need help. I'm going to get you guys a besides description.

I want to clarify something else that's clippler related as well. Just so everybody knows, James Hardin is going to get paid. He's going to get paid. So he's not technically extension eligible right now, but the deal is coming. The deal is happening. It's why he was agitating to get him. himself to the Clippers, Darry, like nobody else ever does, traded for a guy who had money on the table elsewhere, said no, and just said, I'm going to Philly and I'm going to love it

and I don't even care about my money. Nobody's done it before. Nobody's done it since. But according to the Sixers, that's what James Harden did. But guess what? He agitated to get over there because he's going to get paid as well. OG Annanobie, another expiring deal, he's going to get paid as well. We see Sacramento couldn't come to a deal with Pascal Seacom, so no deal got done. They didn't just say, oh, let's just do the deal.

Let's just make the deal. You know, whatever happens in the offseason be damned because that's not how the league operates. Okay? So what you just wanted to clear that up. What I'm hearing you saying is James Harden doesn't need to do it in the playoffs in order to get paid. No, he doesn't. The one exception to the do it in the playoffs rule.

Whoa, well, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not Steve Balmer. It's my rule. It's not Balmer's rule. But this moment, these James Harden rants, this is Waz doing it in the playoffs. This is Waz in his absolute element. And Justin and I are just a couple of mere coffees over here, waiting on the perimeter, giving him his space. that's what we do. Little liar

Darry. Jesus Christ. All right. We need to talk about the books who are, we should mention 25 and 12 and second in the Eastern Conference. So there are levels

to panic watch with certain teams. But one in four since the new year began Jan is practically doing like a Kobe stick every game at this point. like trying to light a fire under his team, trying to get a new Instagram ad seemingly with some of his comments.

But I have to say the one thing that jumped out to me from Janus after that Rockets loss wasn't the whole thing about the cleaning guy needs to clean better, et cetera, et cetera. It was this line. It was that this was not the Milwaukee Bucks. He was referring to their defense. This is not who we are. And I'm starting to wonder, Rob,

are we sure that Janus is fully aware that the type of team that he's playing for is no longer like the teams of old, that this is now an offensive team that is going to get buy on defense because we used to ding Mike Boodenholds a lot for being so rigid. I'm starting to wonder if, like,

Janus got a free pass there because it seems like he is not really adjusting to the new scenario. That is who they are. That is what the personnel of this team is. But I think what Janus is frustrated by, if I had to guess, just based on the way the bucks have played,

what he seems to react to. It's a lot of stuff that's within their power. It's them being the worst transition defense in the league. It's them applying needless pressure on the perimeter in ways that disadvantage him and Brooke and other guys on the backline. It's just mental mistakes. Like you can be an offense first team or an offense-leaning team and not do dumb shit on defense.

And that's kind of where we're out with the bucks, where there's coaching decisions being made, there's execution decisions being made, there's effort problems, all of which are trending. in the wrong direction defensively. You can't have that. And if you're going to have, you know, some coaching mistakes are inevitable. You're going to make the wrong call sometimes Adrian Griffin's a first year head coach

that's going to happen. The team is what it is in terms of its personnel. And I'm sure we'll talk all about that as far as whether that can be shored up. But you can do better. You can play better than this. And as much as as bad as the Rockets loss was, the jazz loss, that's as inexcusable a loss as you're going to find from a contender. And I'm curious, Isaiah, what do you think Will Hardy would say about the Bucks defense in that game against the jazz?

That was a masterpiece of dog shit. I have to agree. I have so many thoughts on the Bucks and Yannis specifically just because, and we floated this thing off mic before that just like, Janus kind of gets a pass. for a lot of nonsense that's happened around the Bucks during his era as Bucks franchise player and superstars, some disappointing playoff exits, and, you know, just some general weird stuff that's happened to them in very big spots.

And of course, you know, everybody understands he was sick of Mike Boodenholzer. I think most of us were sick of watching the Bucks be Mike Boodenholz's team. but he was absolutely consulted during the coaching search. And so to change the character of the team, you know, management felt like they needed to appease him, right? And so they went and got a coach that they thought would appease Janus

because, and again, people get in my mentions when I go on Bill's show and I explain like, yo, this did not look like a connected group at the in-season tournament. They're like, Janice never sat in the huddle. I'm like, guys, like, I'm not just watching them do what they do body language-wise at NBA in-season tournament and just saying this. Like, I've actually talked to people who might have a pretty good idea as to what the general vibe is over there. I'm not just saying this shit. Like, also, if your defense is playing this way and you're not frustrated, something is wrong. It's crazy.

And again, like the defense again, nobody thought that. they would be the third best defense in the NBA this year. But 22nd is just unacceptable. There's no reason they have to be this bad. And for me, it's like, yo, Janice, like, this was your idea. We remember, remember the reports? Nick Nurse was one of the, was the leading candidate for this job. Then out of nowhere he, quote, unquote, took himself out of the running.

If you guys remember this. i.e. for whatever reason, it came out that Nick Nurse was no longer the guy. I've heard different reasons as to why they no longer wanted to do it. From what I heard, Janus wasn't on board with it for whatever reason. And I think it was like he didn't feel like having a task manager up there anymore. Which, okay, cool. No problem. Then you get Adrian Griffin in there very soon after. Everybody's like, this is not what we want either.

You know, maybe we didn't want the task manager like Bud because he is, by all accounts, Bud is a stickler. Like, he is a stickler for his spacing, for where he's supposed to be on defense, for his principles and adhering to them. Like, he's a task manager. Adrian Griffin has not been that.

And there's no indication that he's been a good coach at all, to be honest. There's no, like, there's no reason to say that. And again, this was Janus's idea. Then, you know, we could bring it to the offense which 30 in the NBA looks as good as it does. And let's face it, folks, let's be real. Janice can drop 50 and 60 points against bad defenses with the best of them.

Against the very best teams, that's not going to happen. You need to build some sort of offensive structure. And everybody's like, why aren't they running more pick and roll with Damiennus? Because guess what? Yonis doesn't feel like it. And a lot of people, again, he's built this. reputation is this team first, selfless, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. I got news for y'all.

Janice has a very big ego. And he cares about his numbers and he cares about his stats and he cares about the way he looks. That's why he takes those ugly-ass jump shots all the time. That's why he does it. That's why he refuses to be a pick and roll guy because it doesn't like the results. And I would encourage people. I think I said it on here.

Eric Neum of the Athletic, my former colleague, wrote a, a story about the Bucks pick and roll and the lack of pick and roll. And you could just read the honest quotes. He's like, I'm still getting double-teamed here. What's the point of this? I thought Dane was supposed to make me open. And Dane calmly explains like, yeah, they're double-teaming you now,

but our guys are good enough shooters. They're going to make those threes. Eventually, they're going to start making hard choices. And we do this so that throughout the long run, we put defenses in a bind. And guess what? They're still not running picking rolls. I mean, they're running them some. It's not like there's been

a complete vacuum of pick and roll play there. Are they running them as much as they should be? Well, no, they're not. And maybe a lot of teams in the NBA aren't right now. There's just kind of a general trend toward other kinds of offense right now, away from basic pick and roll stuff. And I think some of it is teams trying to prepare for the playoffs in their own way, trying to diversify what they do and thinking,

as Adrian Griffin has said, that they can just kind of fall back on the pick and roll, and it's going to be there for them when it matters. But you got to wrap that stuff out. And we've talked the pick and roll stuff with the Bucks to death. I am not worried about their offense really, ultimately. I know that they have some stuff to improve and shore up. But defense is where their energy is being sapped.

It's where the focus of the team is drifting. It's where everyone is getting frustrated and snapping at each other. And it's the reason why a team with a historic offense is kind of middle of the pack in terms of winning teams by point differential. They're a Knicks-esque team by point differential. I imagine the Bucks want to be better than that. Yeah, I think they go hand in hand off. in the defense because I'm just perplexed on like how do you fix one without sacrificing the other. And I do think that loss against the jazz, I think it was notable that Andre Jackson was in there

for defense offensively, no one is guarding him. Chris Dunn was on him at one point. He might have been on the other side of the court just because I love Andre Jackson. He is a badass. He is a hustle guy. But the way he shoots, like you'd think he was playing High Lie or some other sports because his shot is just just completely off, even though the numbers this year are very good at low volume. But my question with the defense, because I agree with you, like, where does it start? Because Janus wants to say that it's effort, but to me, there's still a lot of personnel concerns here that go beyond just guys getting back on transition. Yeah, I mean, let's face it, we got to be honest.

Dame Lillard is no Gary Payton. Nobody has ever accused him of that. The first or the second. That's just the fact that neither. He's neither on that end. But the thing is, I don't think their perimeter defense is such that they have to be bottom 10 in the NBA. You know what I mean? Like, yes, Dame isn't incredible at the point of attack.

You need somebody else to take on that responsibility. Some people might say it's Bochamp. Some people might say it's Jackson. Some people might say it's Pat Conantin. Who knows, right? But there's a construction that allows for your defense to not be bottom 10. What I will say about the offense and how it connects to the defense where I disagree with Robb, their offense is great because of individual brilliance.

And individual brilliance takes more energy than doing it as a collective and complementing one another and using each other's other's other gifts to make our jobs easier. So to me, I don't see it as separate issues. I don't see what they're doing on offense as separate from what they're doing on defense. There's no actual cohesion to the greatness of their office. It's just, Janus can beat up on most defenses,

most defenses which you don't play in the playoffs, and so can Dane individually. And so can Chris Middleton in spots. But against the best teams, they're not going to be able to do that. And in so much as they are, their energy is going to be so sap that their defense that already doesn't possess elite,

elite personnel defensively up and down the roster is going to suffer for it. So to me, I see the failure of their defense as of a peace with their offense. There's definitely interconnectivity there. If only it's something we talk about all the time, which is like if you're not getting stops, you're right wise, you're going to have to rely on your individual greatness a lot more. When it's Janus walking the ball up, Dame walking the ball up against set defenses, you're going to be trading off in terms of just like your points per possession output when stuff like that is happening. They have to figure out a way to stop somebody.

And the transition stuff is its own problem. But honestly, they're dead last enforcing turnovers without even having the benefit of the stable Budenholzer style positional defense. And there are guys running around and pressuring all over the place who aren't good at it, who aren't pressure defenders. And when you're doing that, you're not pressuring anyway.

And like, you're not pressuring anything. You're just kind of being out of position, creating problems for guys in the back line. You are just kind of running around and accomplishing nothing. So I don't know how to fix that with the players that they have. I think Jackson is a perfect example of the kind of type that they need more of on the floor, who is not always spotless, not always flawless in terms of his positioning.

Like he is a bit of an erratic defender. He is a gambler. He's a guy who can apply pressure. But if you're going to play this way, that's what you need. Not Malik Beasley trying to beat that guy, because that's really not going to pay off for you at all. I just don't know if any of it's going to matter if you. you're not going to get back. Like they have to do that at a higher level.

They have to get some kind of stops. Like that jazz game was maddening to watch. Genuinely, I think the closest they got to getting a stop on the jazz was there was a fast break where too many jazz players tried to dunk an alleyup at the same time. That was the best defense that the Bucks played in that entire game. And that is unacceptable for a team that should be a lot better than that.

Yeah, the jazz looked like the warriors, like the prime warriors at time. Seriously. amount of threes they were getting up, just like completely unmolested on the perimeter there. I mean, I think we need to revisit the dame trade because on the one hand, I think you do the dame trade every single time. And I think if the results were flowing at this point, I don't think we would be hearing anything from Janus. Because he does, unlike other superstars, seem to be motivated by wins. And that's it, right?

Not the flashy stuff and all those other stuff. Even the Instagram ads, which he seems to be adding to day by day. I have to wonder, though, if he didn't realize how advantageous or how good Drew was for him because Drew did things that he didn't want to do or that just propped him up and didn't force him to change what he was doing. Like, I think you do the dame trade was, but I wonder if Janus wasn't aware of how much he would have to sacrifice and change in order to make this all work. I don't see why we would think he really thought about it in that way. I would assume that to him, we lost to the heat in embarrassing fashion, and so changes should happen. Dane Lillard is a highly decorated player at the same position as Drew Holiday ostensibly.

They both, quote-unquote, point guards. Obviously, the way they function within an NBA game on offense and defense have nothing to do with one another, but they play the same position and you're thinking, I've upgraded that position, we've flamed out in the playoffs. That's all that matters.

I find it hard to believe that he's, you know, he went deep into, you know, the concepts of how this would work positionally on offense and defense, right? And I don't think he was wrong to assume that they had upgraded the roster. I think what he was wrong about was that he would have

to change things about how he played, which I get it. You've won two MVP's. You've won a championship, albeit against dubious competition, but you want a championship. Okay. All right. You want a championship. I understand why you might not want, why you might not see your approach to basketball as one that needs to evolve. And I think that's what we're brushing up against.

Janice's refusal to realize that there needs to be some level of evolution to what he does with and for the Milwaukee Bucks. I think this is where we're at a philosophical divide. I just don't look at anything that is happening in Milwaukee right now and point the finger at Janus and say, this is your fault, or you are not changing enough, or you are not being accountable enough to the result. The reality is even if they had kept your holiday

and never traded for Damien Lillard, which, to your point, Justin, would do 100 times out of 100. I think you make that trade. I still think their defense would take a step back if this is the style of defense they were going to play. Everyone on the back line is a half beat late. And some of that is guys getting older.

Some of that is Brooke Lopez not being great in every matchup anymore. Some of that is Bobby Portis being kind of an abject disaster this season. Even if Drew is spotless and perfect on the ball, all of that stuff behind him is not going to be there in the way it wasn't or Mike Boodenholster because the bucks don't play that way anymore. See, the reason why I disagree with you is like the reason they're playing like this because they got a new coach because this is the guy Janus wanted. Right?

Like you can't be the focal point of the organization and everything basically flows through you. And we say, oh, all the good is Janus, none of the bad is him. No, I'm not saying no responsibility, but he is not the problem here. No, see, I wouldn't categorize Janus as a quote-un, quote problem, but I don't think the way he's managed this thing has been steps in the directions of a solution, right? So you can say Janice is, yeah, he's clearly, he's clearly playing incredible. He's clearly playing like objectively. You look at his numbers and the output and say that's elite level output. But we know the regular season is not the playoffs. And this is not going to

going to be good in the playoffs. And all these changes were made for success in the playoffs. And so, you know, all of the, all of the changes that were made were reactions to what happened in the playoffs. And I don't know how you can look at what's going on and think there's going to be an improvement in the playoffs on what the disaster was last season. I don't see how you put that conclusion. They can't do it in the playoffs.

I still think this team as constructed now could get to the conference finals. And Justin, I think part of the reason why we might sound a little dower on a team that is 25 and 12 and second in the East right now is that when you're trying to imagine how they get past some of the other elite teams in their own conference, there's not a lot of wiggle room to improve this roster. There's not a lot that they're going to be able to add given the resources they have available via trade. Yeah, and that's why I wonder back to my original point where maybe stapling on the team of old or stapling dame onto the team of old and kind of just expecting to do some of the things that you did before is kind of the original sin here. It's not necessarily Janus or each individual guys. It is about the collective. It's about the identity of this team. And I almost wonder, because they have nothing else to trade, do you trade a foundational piece? Like, for instance, Brooke Lopez. and just embrace the fact that you are an offensive dynamic team and the defense is going to kind of go. You could turn it on in the playoffs.

Now, the type of guys you would want to bring in ostensibly is like a 3-and-D sort of guy. Those guys are really hard to find on the market. And on top of that, as you guys mentioned, Brooks not shooting that well this season looks a step slow. What are the type of teams that are even going to want to trade for him? But if I'm looking at the big board, I want to be a little bit more flexible trade Brooke.

get a wing in. And then let's see how this looks. And let's just clobber teams with offense. Like, for instance, Dame has done for years and years and years. But they're already doing that. They're already clobbering teams with offense. Clobbering more. I agree with,

I agree with Waz's point. They're good on offense for the regular season. I worry in the playoffs if we're going to get sludgy again. And if some of these issues are going to be more important. It's possible. It's just hard to look right now and say, we're kind of bumping up against, the limits of what teams can do offensively.

Like, they're not going to get much more efficient than 120 points per 100 possessions in the regular season. I take your point that the playoffs are different. I take your point that the execution is going to have to be sharper. There's going to have to be more of a comprehensive team impact. Middleton's contributions as kind of a mediator, I think, are important. Some of the progress we've seen from Janice and Brooke both on the role finding teammates with passing, I think, has been helpful.

But those teammates are either offense-only players or defense-only players. which is kind of the issue right now, or they're not even useful altogether in some games, which is a much bigger problem. Let me put this to you guys a different way. There were points last season where the Lakers' defense looked ridiculously horrible. The transition, the typical regular season,

malaise LeBron team stuff that we've seen so many freaking times, I can't even count. Like, you know, second edition Cavs, some of those defenses in the regular season, it turned into laughable stuff, right? But whatever. The Lakers showed that last year. And then the playoffs came and they became overwhelming.

They just, like against the Warriors and the Grizzly specifically, they became a juggernaut on defense. It's like, holy shit. How are people supposed to get good offense against these guys, right? Do we think the bucks are capable of that kind of switch? No. absolutely not. And they're not going to benefit at all from the rotation tightening that other teams are going to do.

When other teams stop playing their worst players, the Bucks are kind of already trying to do that. So there's not going to be any benefit for them there. Yeah, I think right now the Bucks are overwhelming with talent. And I don't think it's a coincidence, for instance, that they've lost all three games that Dame has not played in. Because it is a lot of times just Dame and Janus just beings too much for that. At a point, you could win a lot of playoff games that way. These are two top 10, whatever, 15 players in the league. I just don't think there's a foundation for good offense.

You could say that's coaching, that's maybe utilizing the personnel. I personally wonder if we had different personnel, if that would just augment things enough. Rob, what do you think about the idea of moving Brooke for something else? I think it's a realistic thing you have to talk about, mostly because none of the other options are going to get you anything that moves the needle. that's where we're at. If your trade scenario is Bobby Portis-centric,

if it's like a couple of second round picks, which is literally the only picks that Milwaukee can trade at this point, what are you really getting? Maybe you're getting a veteran guy in the last year of his deal that his other team doesn't want to bring back, but you're not getting Alex Caruso,

you're not getting Dorian Finney Smith, you're not getting the guys that we talk about as being trade targets on this show. And the other problem with trading Brooke, and this is something that has to be said and underlined and emphasized, Milwaukee needs a backup big right now. You take Brooke Lopez out. I think it can get a look, here's the thing.

The Bucks can only get so much better offensively. They can get worse defensively. And we've seen it in particular when Janus has played the five, they've been even worse. So if you're making Janus a full-time five or you're hoping that Bobby can step into that role or you're trying to pull someone off the scrap heap, this defense can get worse. Bobby Portis, get your ass in the center position. Yeah, I... Man, he's been so bad.

The idea of Janus has a full-time five, I don't think he's going for that. He doesn't want it. He's not going for that. And then, you know, Bobby, like, the big man rotation would just fall completely apart. And I think they have to lean on their size. Like, it's the only way they're going to generate a decent defense

is by leaning on the side. that they have. They just haven't been able to effectively leverage this size this season. And some people would be like, well, that's how you give up a bunch of threes and blah, blah, blah. I don't buy that. I think a more carefully coordinated defense, you know, a more opportunistic switching at the wings with the back line doing what they do can figure out how to stitch together. Again, we're not talking about the bad boy pistons, guys.

respectable defense, not legendary defense, a respectable one, a not top, a not bottom 10 one. I think they have enough to do that, but there needs to be, you know, again, some collaboration and cohesion from the group. There needs to be some buy-in. There needs to be a vision that is coherent. And so far, that has not been the case. Sorry, A. drew Griffin. Yeah, if you think you can't play big and even play a good amount of drop and still contest the three-point line, I would like you to watch the Minnesota Timberwolves play basketball because they do this exact thing every single game. And they have some resources that the bucks don't. You know, a Jaden McDaniels is a guy that Milwaukee does not have. But they have guys like Mike Conley

making it work with his old legs, right? They have, you know, Kyle Anderson making the absolute most of his athletic gifts and talents and he is instinctive in a way that Milwaukee's supporting cast is not. Those are the kinds of players that the bucks are really missing. Well, I think the other advantage to going a little bit smaller would be getting in a perimeter

defender that you can count on because I do wonder how much of this is just exposing guys like a Chris Middleton and a Malik Beasley in switching sort of situations, having to force them to go and guard players they're probably not suited for. Let's be honest. Milton, at this

point, probably in the Clay Thompson zone in terms of defense. He's probably a four. He'd probably be better off deployed as a four. And so I almost wonder if you're benefiting your personnel, taking a little bit more off of them, Lee Beasley off. Some of these other guys, we could hide them a little bit better if we had another guy to take that on. But again, those are the most expensive, toughest guys to find these days. But also, and folks can drink at home because I'm about to invoke the nuggets. But the way that they've incorporated their young guys can happen because they have an overall

sense of themselves already. And guys can try to... Sure, but I'm just saying like they have, the bucks have young guys that they drafted on the roster and if they had a more unifying theme to what they do every day, it'd be easy to incorporate newer, younger pieces.

not as, you know, season pieces and have them learn on the go. But because this is basically a free-for-all at the moment that's getting by on pure talent and pure talent alone, it's not game plan, it's not, you know, X's and O's. It's not veteran know-how. It's overwhelming people with your great talent and nothing else. I think they'd be able to, you know, incorporate some of these young guys more effectively and sort of handhold them along the way

because they had a system, you know? And you know where else that hurts was is in reclamation projects. The kinds of guys that you're going to be able to get for a second round pick or a couple second round picks via trade who maybe didn't work out with their other team, that's easy to do when you have something

you can fall back on and a defined role where everyone knows what you're running, how to play absolute clarity. And the bucks have had that for years in ways they do not, now and it changes who they can realistically look at. Like there's players, you know, maybe this is just because we were just talking about Jaden McDaniels, but Jalen McDaniels has been a mess in Toronto, out of the rotation.

I could talk myself into taking a gamble on a guy like Jalen McDaniels if I trusted what we were doing as a team. Yes. But if you're a general manager, if you're a coach, why would you throw a player who's been unsuccessful into a team that doesn't know how to play together? It just doesn't work. How do you take a flyer? When you're a flyer.

Yeah. So you're saying you would fire Adrian Griffin. Oh my God. Hell yeah. What? Absolutely. Absolutely. Absolutely.

Because again, and we, you know, and we all hear stuff before it happens, right? Right now, we're hearing the Darwin Ham stuff in L.A. It's not going great right now. We're hearing it. before they fired Black in Cleveland, we heard about it. You know, like, we hear stuff. Like, I've heard the Griffin thing has not been a rousing success. It hasn't been met with enthusiasm.

He does not have some strong belief within that locker room. That's just what it is. And if your aspiration is championship, you need to do something now. You know, and that's where I kind of respect what they do. on the NFL side. Just the idea that you could fire Bill Belichick is insane. But it's also like, fuck that.

It's like a sense of urgency. Like everything freaking matters right now. And for the Bucks, you are in a championship mode right now. You can't be wasted in time with a novice, amateur coach that nobody respects in your locker room and there's a championship on the line.

And that's where we're talking about the Bucks in this way. They are better than the vast majority of the teams we will talk about on this podcast all season, but they're playing something different. And if you're playing for that,

a coach like Adrian Griffin with where he is right now is hurting your operation. It's hurting your operation on a night-to-night competitive level. It's hurting your operation on a development level. But if he is David Blatt,

I don't know who Ty Lewis. Am I handed the keys to Joe Prunty and thinking this is going to go dramatically differently? All due respect to Joe Prunty? All of a sudden, Stats just walks off the court, never to be seen again.

That was interesting. this is this certainly feels like why those sorts of things tend to happen. There's a reason why early, inexperienced head coaches are very skeptical sometimes of their veteran assistance

and it's because that's how you look at the escape patch when you're about to be pushed out of it. That's why I push Rob out of the co-hosting chair. Extremely rude. You just wrestled it away. You make all the decisions now. I don't like it. Isn't that?

Wait, isn't that what you did to Chris Ryan? Wasn't Chris Ryan the original up here? I think he retired. But that's what you would say as someone who sabotaged it. Right, right. You were out here like slashing Chris's tires to prevent him from getting into the studio, just anything you could do, Justin, to seize this podcast for yourself. How's Adrian Griffin as a podcast host?

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All right, why don't we move along let's talk about the Grizzlies unfortunately John Morant out after what was it, nine games huge disappointment I, for one, was very excited to start watching the Grizzlies again. It seemed like they could put a little bit of pressure on teams like the Warriors, the Rockets, some of these other teams still in the play and mix here.

So that's disappointing because we won't get as full-throated a play-in push at this point. But I don't know what else to say just generally. I want to talk a little bit about the ripple effects, Rob, but you wrote about this for the site. This is pretty much a lost season for the Grizzlies at this point. It does feel like a lost season. But I think if we're going to start somewhere, we have to start with them having two pretty awesome wins against the Sons and the Mavs without Jha. And the second one without Jaron Jackson Jr., too.

Like those are huge performances for a team in this position. That's genuinely inspiring stuff. And I think bodes well for what the spirit of the team is going to be for the rest of the year. But there's a difference between giving them that kind of credit and thinking that this is going to be something they're going to be able to do all the time with the talent that they have. I don't think this team is going to be six and 19 bad. which I think is what they were during Jaws suspension, in part because Marcus Martin, Luke Kinnard, were out for a lot of that time.

So you had a lot of overloading injuries, not only there, but in the front court. I just can't imagine this is a group that's going to be much more competitive in a way that's going to make an actual run in the conference. So if that's not going to happen, this does feel like a lost season. Because we've seen what Desmond Bain is in this kind of lead role. We've seen what Jaron Jackson Jr. is without John Morant on the floor.

We know what these guys can basically do, and all the young guys on the roster have already gotten their shots to do stuff and to prove themselves, and we know at this point which one of them, like which of them are up to that task. So what else are we doing the rest of the way? What are we playing for if we're the Memphis Grizzlies?

Like, I don't know what there is to be accomplished in a situation like this when some of the development has already been done. And on the younger end of the spectrum, if you take out kind of their core star guys, what are the big jumps we're expecting from Zaire Williams at this point? a lot of young prospects who have kind of hit the wall in terms of what they can be.

Yeah, I mean, unless you got some things that you still want to see from Aldama and Conchar, I mean, I always do, but I'm going to watch it. I just don't know that I expect anything different than what I've already seen. Also, even the big dogs who are still relatively young, right, like Jaron Jackson and Bain, do we think we have more to learn about their games?

I don't believe so. I think they're going to fine-tune who they are and what they do, but I think we've seen who these guys are going to be as NBA players, and they're both fantastic, wonderful players. To me, you know, it becomes about them and then shouldering the burden of what this season ultimately becomes. And that's going to matter because these guys are going to be good again next year. Yes.

Right. And that's why I don't, like, I don't know if you do like a fire sale because you might want some of these guys who aren't on expirings to still be part of what you do next season. And they'll have some money to do some, you know, a couple of things in the off season. And so to me it's not, you know, it's a loss season in terms of they're not going to go to the playoffs. And even if they somehow by some miracle squeaked in, they wouldn't accomplish anything. And so, you know, it's lost. in that sense, but I think, you know, just as a pride and as a culture, organizationally, you know, I don't think they should go into let's dump this season in the complete trash can for any reason. Like, if you take yourself seriously as an outfit, you know, you guys got to show up and still compete. And that has to be the tone set, the message set from up top that we're a serious outfit.

Our best player is gone for this season. But we're no slouches. We're going to come out and get people held the rest of the way. Yeah, I think the fascinating thing going forward, if we want to call it fascinating for the Grizzlies, is figuring out who we're going to keep and which guys we can probably move along because there's also a money concern here. If the Grizzlies bank, a lottery pick as a result of this, which can help in a lot of ways, probably gives them the sort of talent upgrade they would probably be looking for on the market to be trading for around this time if Morant was around.

it's just going to compound the financial concerns because Bain's extension is going to kick in. You have Jaron Jackson's money. You have Moran's money. That's a lot of money for any team, let alone, one of the smallest markets in the league. And so I'm looking, Rob, at some of the main players here. And yeah, we could talk about the conchars and little radias and some of the young guys who have been coming along, maybe, sort of. But I'm kind of looking at the top line here. I'm wondering if Mark is smart, the guy they brought in, to kind of be their new Dylan Brooks can fill that role because he's making 20 or so million over the next two years

each year. Decent money, not like arduous, but I wonder if he's the guy you think fits that role long term with this team. I honestly don't know. And there's a reason why the Marcus Smart trade machine wars have already begun. Because if you were going to trade someone

off this team in the middle of the season now that Jaws going to be out, you don't want to trade another point guard, you don't want to trade another ball handler, having someone like smart around has been really important. And we should also say, I mean, the Grizzies, they won so hard against the Mavs

that Marcus Smart dislocated his finger celebrating a made three, which is incredible shit I've never seen before. I just don't know, like to me the smart move, the Marcus smart move, I should say, is trading him in the off season. If you're going, if you're our intent on,

trading him if you're intent on changing your vision of that Dylan Brooks role, I would wait. Get through this season, keep playing hard, keep competing in these games, as was said. And Marcus Mart's a really important part of that. It's also a very important part of not overtaxing Desmond Bain, which is something that the Grizzlies have gotten better at over the course of the year, having other guys bring the ball up the floor, having other guys initiate offense so Bain can release off of it. That stuff is pretty crucial in managing 82. And the longer you get into this stuff, and the more depressing the games get without John Morant,

the more you're going to want another ball handler around for a team that really doesn't have a lot of them. So I would keep Marcus Smart for now, even including the money, but it's something they're going to have to look at, whether ultimately like the John Morant, Marcus Smart, Desmond Bain, perimeter trio is something you won on the floor in critical situations. And if that's going to be enough size and if the money of that is going to make sense. Yeah, I mean, what do you even trade Marcus Smart for? Some contenders, 28th pick? Is that something that's worth it? so you could draft a kid who's never going to help John Morant do anything.

They also, it should be noted, I think, gave up two first round picks to get him. So you wouldn't think they're just going to turn around and take some subpar package. Yeah, it just, it seems like he should be back. And like Rob said, if in the offseason somebody wants to be like, you know what, Marcus Smart is the missing piece, he's an expiring deal at that point. Oh, snap, yeah, let's whip him up. All right, cool. But I don't know.

I tend to think they should just be fine with respectability, man, and not just turn your organization into a laughing stock for an entire year. Give your fans there something to want to show up for, which matters. That damn gate matters in those markets as we hear every single time. There's a collective bargaining agreement. But, yeah, I'm against the idea that they should tear this down. Yeah, not necessarily a tear down. It's more like getting ahead of what you think will be your inevitable core around Morant when he is healthy.

I agree, though, especially you want to see who you can get where that lottery pick land because if you get a Marcus Smart type, maybe it makes more sense to lean into that guy and then trade smart. But I do think smart would be an interesting person on the open market. The bucks, for instance, don't have anyone to trade. But like if Marcus Smart was on the box, that would make sense. Like the Lakers, a team, I don't know what they would give up, for instance. but that's another one where he could fit. He could fit a lot of different situations, so the value is there, I think it would make sense

if you don't think he fits where you are long term. There's also something interesting about where Memphis is in the standings as it relates to their eventual first round pick. The silver lining of losing John Morant, and it's a pretty scant silver lining, considering how important John Morant is to the team and how good they looked when he was on the floor. But now you're kind of aiming and angling for what you hope could be

a top five or six pick. Realistically, though, there's not a lot of room for Memphis to drop down in the standings and get a better pick than roughly where they are right now, which is with the sixth best odds. Maybe they could get ahead of, and I say ahead of, meaning worse than Portland. I don't think this group of players for the Grizzlies could or would do that. Like they seem better and better assembled and they play better together than the Blazers do. Have you seen Duop Reese lately?

my friend. Why are you even asking me this? I'm insulted. I really like him. I know. I'm also insulted, Justin, that, you know,

in our rundown, you made a nice little little list of the Grizzlies role players. You didn't even put Vince Williams on this list. Because he's a keeper. We know that he's a keeper.

Okay. That's a good saying. Tillman can go. La Ravia, you know, you could flip a coin, but Vince Williams is a, you know, he's

untradable. Lock that man in. And, you know, honestly, just to tie a bow on this thing, this reminds me in a way of that lost season the Warriors had when Steph got hurt. And then at the end, you know, Dremont just not playing hard into certain strategic ankle tweaks

and calf strains and all of that. And you position yourself to try to get the best situation that you can. But you don't just turn your team into the laughing stock of the league. That's all. No. And to get a better pick, they would have to be the laughing stock of the league. Because the top four teams

in terms of lottery odds right now, oh my gosh, they are, you got to be real bad to crack that group. I think so. The Detroit Pistons are like one game against the Raptors away from like 30 something straight losses. So good luck catching them. And this is where probably the lottery odds come into play too. You saw what

happened to the Pistons last year where they go from the top to fifth, maybe the Grizzlies get a Zion Williamson like bounds and go up to one or two. Let's talk about the Pacers though quickly here because Hallibur and not out as long, apparently re-evaluated in two weeks, grade one hamstring strain. But that's two pretty important weeks at a time when the Pacers still kind of figuring out who they are here after that sort of meteoric run to start the season. Rob, do you think you've been around the team a bunch over the past few years?

Do you think this changes the calculus for them? Like going into the deadline, do you think this means maybe we don't look at a Siakum? Maybe actually we look to become sellers, get rid of Buddy Heald, play for the future, or do you still think this team is all in on the now? Well, let me question the premise. Why would this turn them into sellers? Because by all accounts, Halliburton having a grade one sprain and is being projected to only be at a couple weeks, is great news.

That's a great result for what looked to be a pretty dangerous injury when it happened. So I'm, if I was the Pacers, I'd be feeling pretty good about the news

that we're maybe getting Tyrese Halliborne back in a couple weeks. It doesn't make those couple weeks easier to survive and they may lose a lot in the interim, but if you're getting that guy back,

and the defense honestly has been surprisingly okay of late, I will say this. Since January 1st, the Pacers have played five games, all of which

were against some of the most prolific offenses in NBA history. Two against the Bucks. Two against the Celtics. One against the Hawks. Not only did Indiana go four and one in those games, but they played roughly league average defense, which is no small thing against that level of competition.

And I think a lot of it is that kind of sized up starting lineup has really been working for them. Yeah. I could see them maybe getting out of the Seacum sweepstakes as a result of this, that maybe this isn't the year for them. them to really put the, like, foot on the gas pedal. That might be the difference here. But, I mean, Healed, for instance, is an interesting one.

If only because they've demoted him to the bench fully now, after Rick Carly all had, like, the settle all family business. I'm only going to play guys or start guys who are going to try really hard. And that's probably what helped the defense in certain ways. Do you see anything there? Well, try really hard on defense, we should say. Buddy Heald's always running very hard on offense. We know this to be true.

that's true but healed is that someone you're looking i guess they'd be looking to trade him regardless it could be he you know he was someone where the extension talks kind of broke down there was a little bit of a gap between healed and the pacer's in terms of what they wanted the number to be but from what i've heard it wasn't an insurmountable gap it wasn't so far apart you couldn't possibly seeing these sides reconcile and free agency to bring him back potentially and even though he's on the bench it's pretty important to what they do they've still been pretty successful with him and Halliburton on the floor together. That's a partnership that means a lot to that team's offensive execution.

They're going to need, if not healed, another kind of potent offensive player to bring off their bench. So if you're trading him away, you would hope to be getting something kind of like Buddy Healed shaped anyway. In that case, I might just hold on to him. I keep some pretty good vibes going for this team. Keep rolling in the way you've been rolling, which is punching up the defense of your starting five and figuring out how to get more size on the floor around this group. I think there's enough to like about what the Pacers are doing that I'm not looking to make wholesale changes

or even kind of changes to critical rotation pieces right now unless there's a Seacom conversation, unless we're swinging big. If we're just making moves around the periphery, Buddy Healed as a personality and player is probably more valuable and important to the Pacers than an equivalent plug-in role player would be too. Yeah, this season got completely derailed last year

when Halliburton missed time. Although I think this year's version of them where Halliburton is even better than last year. Obviously, he's better, but the additions that they've made have been so crucial. Some of the young guys stepping up in ways, you know, Isaiah's favorite player, Neesmith, looking like a nice little defensive addition to a team that's completely bereft of any other defensive intensity. I don't know that they should be cells. I'd like to see how long Halliburton's going to be out. because to me, once he comes back, they hit the ground running again.

He's just been that incredible. He's been damn near top five in the East level player this year. And so I don't think they should do a tear down. Obviously, I think to trade Miles Turner, by the way, at this point, with that big man rotation, you can't do it. Dude, you just can't. And this becomes a complete and utter joke with Turner,

and Halliburton. Like, this is, we're getting the Detroit Pistons level if they do something like that with Halliburton going. So I'd like to see them stand pad. I'd like to see them go to the postseason this year with this group who's just been competitive against some of the best teams in the entire Eastern Conference all year

while they've had Halliburton. They've given the Celtics hell. They freaking just beat up the bucks. Like, just smack them around. There's just no argument towards that. Philly's gotten hell. Like, I really want to see what they could do in the postseason with this group. So I'm not in favor of a tear down.

I'd just like to see how long Halliburton's going to be gone. Yeah, in a way, how long Halliburton is ultimately out. And it is re-evaluated we should mention in two weeks, which just means that they might update us in two weeks. Most teams just forget to actually update you once they even give that timeline. And this is the sort of injury that does, has a tendency to linger. maybe over the next two weeks, that gives them clarity on which way to go in ways that we don't have right now. Well, in the history that was described in terms of what happened to the Pacers last season when Halliburton went out,

I think would lead them to be overly cautious with a soft tissue injury return. So we should realistically expect more than two weeks. And during that time, that's when I wonder what's going to happen to the starting five. It's not exactly a plug-in-play situation with their other guards. and in particular the idea of a knee-smith, Jalen Smith, Miles Turner front cord, that works because you've got the best passer in basketball right now making it work, putting those guys in good spots. The offense has been clicking even with all that size on the floor.

You put Andrew Nemhart or T.J. McConnell in that role. We're not clicking anymore. I think we're stuck in the mud a little bit. Don't you dare talk about Nemhart like that. I was wondering who you were referring to. I can't wait to see them. TJ, Jersey. in the heartland and basketball crazed

Hoosier State Indiana. I'm excited for it, Rob. It will not surprise you one bit, was, to know that he is wildly popular in Indianapolis. Wildly popular. We just all wear T.J. jerseys. To the show.

I like, let's do it. Yeah, let's do it. Or maybe just Pacers' legends. Like, can I get a Jonathan Bender jersey to wear to this thing? Chris Wallin for me. Come on. You got to represent Brooklyn, baby. Come on now. Is there an Andrew Bynum? Andrew Bynum, Pacer's

Jersey was that ever made. That's a good one. Yeah, by the way, still selling those tickets, hi-fiindy.com, hifi-fi-indy.com. Why don't we wrap it there? Thank you to Ben Cruz on production. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. We'll be back on Sunday.

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