The Ringer NBA Show - All-Star Ballots: Starters and Reserves | Group Chat

Episode Date: January 21, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos join to make their All-Star picks and debate their individual ballots with one another. They start with the East and debate myriad topics, including who is worthy of the final starting guard spot, whether Scottie Barnes should be an All-Star, and which Celtics are the most deserving of a selection (5:35). Then they shift to the West, where they celebrate Kawhi Leonard’s impressive season, debate whether Rudy Gobert should be an All-Star, and discuss who should earn the final wild-card spot for the reserves (35:43). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please check out theringer.com/RG to find out more or listen to the end of the episode for additional details. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Jack Sanders Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What would you do if you got scammed? Would you suffer in silence, or would you do something about it? Well, I got scammed once, and this is the story of what I did. I'm Justin Sales, the host of the Wedding Scammer, a true crime podcast from The Ringer, and for seven episodes, we're hunting a comment, a guy with a lot of aliases, a guy who's ruined a lot of weddings, and with the help of some friends, I just might be able to catch him. Listen to The Wedding Scammer on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.

Group chat, I am Justin Barrier, joining me. As always, Rob Mahoney, Big Was, gentlemen, news off the top. We have sold out our live show in Indianapolis during All Star Weekend, high-fi indie. Can you believe it? So is this sold-out, sold-out, or can we still Bruce Springsteen dynamic pricing our way into a pretty lush market with a couple remaining tickets? Is there any more to gouge out of this?

Yeah, I'm sure people can hit the black market if they really want to. Maybe Waz can help them out, you know? You got a guy? Yeah, if you guys need extra tickets, just get at me. My DMs is open. I can pick it something out for y'all. But not for free. No, no, no, no.

These babies. This is one of the hottest tickets in indie history. Are you shouldn't meet? Like, you got to pay for this. This is a hot ticket item. Yeah, maybe we'll figure something out on the ground there. We'll get some tickets away or something. But yeah, thank you to everyone for getting those tickets early and often.

We're excited to do that. What is it? The 17th, I believe, of February All-Star Saturday. We'll see all of y'all that bought tickets at 2 p.m. then. So we're excited about that. Any other news off the top before we get into these much-anticipated All-Star ballots? Just an incredible sports weekend, honestly. Of course, the champs played the best sports team since the 27 Yankees on Friday,

snapped their 20-game home-winning streak. That's the Nuggets versus the Celtics. And what I thought was a fantastic game. It got nasty and muddy at the end. But people don't tend to not remember this. But playoff games often end up nasty and muddy when there's like these high-pressure, high-stakes games. And that felt like a playoff game. That was a treat on Friday.

And, of course, divisional playoffs in the NFL, you know, my man, Lamar Jackson made the race proud by playing quarterbackies. Good Lord. And getting into the conference championship. And of course, my guy, Brock Purdy, played horrible for 98% of that game and then redeemed himself on the final drive. Great game. advances to the conference finals and the NFC beating the Green Bay Packers

and an ascendant Jordan Love just a great sports weekend and then we sold out I mean this incredible sports weekend guys that was a lot to take in was your your full cowherd monologue off the top we should really start every show this way

let's just get like a four day recap from was on what's been going on in the broader world of sports broader world of sports don't we already already do that like informally. I mean, somewhat, but look, for someone like me, who's only vaguely aware that football exists, this is informative.

This is instructive for me. Yeah. I don't think we need to talk about the Nuggets game. We could just blow right past that, right? Oh. Interesting. I will say it was an incredible game. Friday night, two of the best teams in the league,

probably the two best teams in the league really going for it. It seemed like both teams really got up for it and wanted to make a point there. So shouts to both the Celtics and the nuggets for giving us something on a Friday night. Well, plus while we're among friends here, you know, was, I like, if I can say this, I like it when games get a little nasty, get a little dirty, get a little grungy, especially at the end, like, it's okay if we're flying through three and a half quarters, but like I want to see guys gutting out tough possessions to close games like that.

So some free throws are baked into the prospect, but I like it when things get a little gross sometimes. Look, at the risk of going against my fellow NBA media brethren who can't seem to bring themselves to criticize anything about the NBA, I'd rather this than 145, 142. Just saying, I'm not saying we need to go back to, you know, New York Knicks era, Allen Houston buzzer beaters that put the Knicks at 79 for the game. I'm not saying we need to go back to that. But, you know, I'd much rather something closer to this. than 145, 150 in regulation. Just my opinion. Don't shoot the messenger.

Nature is healing. We're getting back to some kind of equilibrium, at least in some of these competitive games among really good teams. Well, if you like gross, Jason Tatum, last minute of the game, doesn't get grosser than that. Got to say.

It's not quite the gross I was in the market for, but, you know, it's a trial every time out. Sure. All right. So on today's docket, we're going to do our all-star ballots, both the starters and the reserves. The starters get announced on Thursday on TNT

the following week the coaches come in with the reserves. Rob, you had an all-star ballot yet again this year? Yeah. Okay. Was and I still waiting for that call from Adam Silver? I'm waiting. And the bad news this time is we're already past the deadline. So your collective ability to influence my vote

is already out the door. My power has already left the building. Oh, you've already casted these votes officially. The ballot has been cast, although it's worth noting that for media, we only vote on the starters. And to be honest, I would say that really comes down to maybe two,

at tops three spots. I would say a lot of these guys are pretty chalky, pretty much locked in. And I imagine we're going to have a lot of overlap in who we choose as the starters. So what you're sharing with us is your official media all-star ballot. Yes.

So for those counting at home, who are deeply invested in the 20, 25% stake of who starts in the All-Star game. This is the podcast for you. You know, we just had the Iowa caucuses. I feel like I'm talking to a caucus member right now. It's kind of crazy. Don't make me a member of the Iowa caucus.

Don't do that. You're influencing the process. Yeah, you're leaning on them. But yeah, starters typically part media, part fans, part players, if they bother to vote and not vote for themselves or their best friend on their team. who's like the 12th man, which is always fun. But where do you guys want to start?

Both conference. So typically we would do this as the no conference all stars, because in years past, they would just vote on, or they would just do the draft with the two top vote getters anyway. We're going to do just straight Eastern Conference, Western Conference, Western Conference,

no stick this year. One, okay. They're both difficult for their own special reasons. Yes. I would say in the East, I have four locks right off, the top. My fifth was like lockish until yesterday and I think I feel pretty comfortable with it now. I know where you're going with that. Yeah. Yeah. So I have Tyrese Halliburn as the guard

in the front court, three front court spots, Jewel and Bid, Janice, Jason Tatum, those, no question. That's easy. And pen and ink, tattoo it onto your chest. Those four guys will be all-star starters. Yep. And then in the fifth spot, the last guard spot, I have Donovan Mitchell. This is the tough spot, I think, for the East is, for me, it was kind of a 50-50 between Donovan and Dame, and I went Dame in that spot. Dame. Wow. Really? Wow.

I had Dame as like one of my last guys in. But go ahead. Wow. Okay. I mean, when in doubt, I went with the point guard on one of the most explosive offenses in NBA history. Fair. And I think all of these guys, this group of guards, the non-Tirees, Brackeree's. of guards in the east.

There's some cases to be made. I would understand Dame, I would understand Donovan. I would understand Tyrese Maxie, who, whether he's a starter or not, is an all-star lock, underline it, period, at the end of the sentence,

will be an all-star and deservingly so. But, Was, who did you have as your guard? Jalen Brunson is my fifth guard. Brunson in there. Part of it is sentimental, obviously, just talking to Knicks fans

every single day. Like, this guy is slowly but surely becoming a deity there. Like, I'm serious. There was a lot of love for Mello for being one of the only superstars that actually made his way to New York. And although he didn't actually deliver

in terms of, you know, high-level playoff success, Nick fans really love Mello for being a guy that chose them, wanted them, and stuck it out with them. But Brunson, man, this guy is, is sort of, you know, amassing a cult following and cult status in New York. And I think he's had a hell of a season. I don't think there's any way to paint their success this season as anything but Jalen Brunson driven.

It's been incredible to watch. And when he's sat, when he's not played, you know, of course with IQ being gone, they look completely miserable and more bound. And so to me, Jalen Brunson is. playing at an all-star level starter. He is the heart and soul of the team, both temperamentally and what he's doing on the court itself. So for me, it's Jalen Brunson as the starter, man.

Just a special season he's having. Yeah, he is so... No question, the defining reason why the Knicks have been this good and why their offense has been a top 10 offense so far this season. Yet again, you know, ahead of Golden State, ahead of Atlanta, ahead of Sacramento, ahead of really good offensive teams, your New York Knicks,

and Jalen Brunson is the driving force of basically everything that they do on that end. Yeah, Brunson was the other guy I was kind of teetering on for that last spot. I ultimately went with Mitchell, probably because of recency bias, although the recency bias has been pretty good. They're winners of seven in a row at this point,

and we should mention the Cavs are, and the schedule has been quite sherman, but they're doing this without Evan Mobley, they're doing this without Darius. Garland and Mitchell looks like the guys cooked when those guys went down. Yeah. And so they've dressed themselves out of the middle of the pack in the east. They are right there in the thick of things with the Sixers and whatnot, not that far

away from the bucks. And Mitchell's numbers are just sterling yet again. The playmaking has been pretty good with Garland out there. And so all those things combined, I think for me, it was ultimately an easy decision. But I'm surprised, especially Dame. just considering how bad they've been on defense. And, like, his numbers are good. He's obviously a big part of why they're so good on offense.

But I actually don't see much of a difference between him and, like, Tyrese Maxi, for instance, a team that's been able to be okay on defense despite, like, his limitations. I mean, Dames'am's limitations on defense are what they are, and they're noticeable, right? He's not good at getting around screens. He's not a high effort player defensively. He's going to drag you down a bit on that end. I just don't see Donovan Mitchell and Tyrese maxi. and Jalen Brunson with all due respect

as any great shakes defensively in a way that would blow him out of the water. So give me the guy that is delivering big numbers yet again, even in what many would consider to be a downseason for him personally, who is fit in alongside another superstar in a somewhat complicated circumstance this season in Milwaukee, delivered in clutch moments. And as I said up top, been a part of a historic offense

in terms of production. If we're going to be rewarding the guys who are score first or offensive first players, let's reward the ones who are part of good offenses. So this is what I think Dame is suffering from. It's almost like when your favorite artists or Ben puts out an album and people are disappointed by it. And you say, oh, well, like, go on Spotify right now, pull up the charts, not out of ten of the artists that just dropped something. This is way better than.

But it's like, no, I'm comparing you to your previous work. So I think Dane, having had some historic offensive seasons preceding this, sort of dings him here in my eyes anyway, because I know Dane can play even better than what he's played. And I think Jalen Brunson is, you know, the surprise of just how legitimately great this guy has been. I think that's sort of informing my vote here for Brunson instead of Dane. I don't mind it at all. And honestly, so we've named five guards, right?

Tyrese Halliburton, Damian Lillard, Donovan Mitchell, Tyrese, Jalen Brunson. Do we all have all five of those guards on our team in total? Yes. I do. I actually also kind of organize them based on, like so for my reserve guards, those are the guys I put ahead of the wild card spots.

I have four guards ultimately between the guards and the wild card spots. So I have, if we're wanting to rank the voting, Brunson and Maxie is my two guards, Dame and then Trey Young. as my wild cards. Tray. So, Tray's, like, just production is incredible. Like, one of the two guys.

We'll get to that. We'll get to that. I mean, I think we know the debate here. It's like all the numbers are sterling, but he just doesn't drive winning. The team is not good. But second in the league and assists is a hard thing to shrug off, you know? I mean, we have so much offense, and yet there are only two guys in the entire league with double-digit assists. I think that's, like, notable. He individually has had a good Trey Young year.

So since we're talking about guards here, and just so you guys know, my guards were Halliburton Brunson as starters, Dame and Maxie as reserves. My wild card is Donovan Mitchell. So my other wild card, and I teeter tottered here. I legitimately teeter tottered here.

And it was a philosophical question for me. I had Derek White and Trey Young as my last two wild. cards because I truly believe Derek White is a special player. The plus mine is God. God. And all the events stats are obsessed with Derek White. But like my basketball brain is like, come on, man. Individually, he's not doing anywhere near as much as Trey Young is.

Even if he's doing it on the team with the best record, best point differential, he is integral to what they do. Like, he makes that thing sing in a very special kind of way. But ultimately, man, I had to leave Derek White on the cutting room floor. But it was tough, man, because I like every single other person in NBA media and NBA Twitter has completely fallen head over heels in love with what Derek White does. But, like, Trey Young is, like, the production is just so freaking, you know, epic. It's like, come on, man. I came closer to picking Derek White for this team than I ever thought I would, to be honest with you.

I was shocked. Well, this just shows you what's going on with the East. And we were talking about this before we came on here. Like, the dearth of like star level talent in the East compared to the West is pretty stark. Like, on my also receiving votes for the West, I have like 10 guys. And for the East, I have like, you know, five or six, but we're into like Terry Roseer and Jimmy Butler pretty quickly, you know? Yeah. Well, we'll circle back to that.

I don't want to let the cat out of the bag too quickly. So those are the guards? Who are all of you guys' guards? So I went Halliburton and Lillard to starters. I said, Mitchell and Brunson as my next two guards. And then I had one guard in a wild card spot. And that was Tyrese Maxie. Okay. Do you want to go through the forwards then?

Yeah. Okay. My forwards. I have Jalen Brown. I have Julius Randall. And I have Powell Bankero. These are your reserves. Your reserve forwards.

These are my reserve forwards. Oh, yeah. I mean, starting forwards are in B, Janice, Tatum. I don't think there's any question there. Okay. So I had none of those people. I had,

front court is Chris Staps. Ooh, okay. I like it. Bam out of bio. Bam out of bio. Is because I'm just like, Come on. He's been their best player this year.

He had, he, if anybody on the he gets a spot, it's got to be bam. And it is surprise, Scotty Barnes. Scotty Barnes, um, has made this. Welcome. Welcome. Look, I'm, I will say this. Um, the path that he's taken to making himself a plus offensive player, this sort of physicality bully ball thing

from the wing slash four position I'm quite impressed by like he's not just breaking people down off the dribble creating space step back long two no he's using his physical gifts to create advantages and he's made himself into a very efficient offensive player the three ball is is being made

at a clip that I doubted that he could make And so, yeah, Scotty Barnes is my last front court play, and I had no front court wild cards. And, of course, my biggest snub was definitely Julius Randall. He's the only person that I was like, when you look at the raw numbers, 24 and 11, you shouldn't like 48% from the, it's like, you know. But I left him off, especially because I got into fight with Nick fans about him being not better than Bam, my bio, just a few weeks of them. You got to put your money where your mouth is, wise. You got to vote for BAM when it counts. I kind of as you're making the case for BAM, I'm like,

uh, maybe I should have put them in there. I don't know. Yeah, fittingly for my role as the, the midpoint between you two, I have kind of a hybrid ballot. I have Scotty Barnes, Jalen Brown,

and BAM as my three front court reserves. I think, I think Scotty's got to be in there one way or another. I'm not completely with you, Was, got to be in there. Like he, he's been Toronto's best chance to win any

game and that feels new. That feels new to Scotty and it's been such a great developmental leap forward for him this season. Just a monster evolution in his game that I think is worth rewarding and the numbers are there, the production is there, the impact is there. I think Scotty's got to be an all-star.

The all-around impact certainly is notable. Definitely the guy that's probably checking all of the boxes, points, rebounds, assists if we're going for like the basic box score stats, probably more than some of these other guys. He is a minus three and a half net rating

for a team that is 12th in the east because they can't win games. They can't shoot. They're not good. They're not a good team. But is Barnes so good that that's like a crime? I don't think it's like

they're a shooter or two away from this being a good team. It's also because Scotty Barnes is playing through some mistakes here. And so I think in the East, I was more ready to give winning teams credit in a way that I probably wouldn't with the West because there's so much individual star talent.

And so if I'm going to lean one way or another, I would rather reward Paulo Bencaro, for instance, who actually hasn't been all that great with Franz Wagner out of the lineup. But then that's kind of the Scotty Barnes argument, right? Where it's like when Franz isn't in there, Paulo has to carry so much. And so I would rather do that than reward a team

that's not even in the playing picture. Like, how hard is it to get in the play in the East? And Barnes hasn't even driven that. He was on my also receiving. Yeah. Well, so there's two conversations here I think we should have. One of them is how you're parsing the Celtics candidates because there's a strong contingent of people who follow that team

who will tell you Derek White is a better player than Jalen Brown, more important to that team than Jalen Brown. I'm not of that philosophy personally. but I think it's something we're diving into and especially as we get into Chris Staps where it's more of a front court, front court comparison with Jalen, how you split the difference

between those guys and the impact they have on the team is really interesting, especially because I would say personally what Jalen Brown offers the Celtics is a little bit more of what a star offers a team than what Chris Staps-Worzingis does. And so how you define that and how you put value on those contributions,

I think is pretty telling. So the reason I go with Chris Taps is one, because if you follow the discourse around this team, which I may or may not do from time to time, whenever Chris Taps is in the lineup, people are telling you the offense is completely changed by it. Just the dynamic of the spacing that he's offering, it changes the math on how the other guys. get to attack. And obviously he's providing what he's providing on defense in terms of rim protection, rebounding, et cetera, et cetera. And so, like, he's so foundational to how the offense functions. Even at the end of the Nuggets game, we just watched,

not Barnes, excuse me, Brown and Tatum are driving into wide open lanes. You know, at the end of the game, Brown is able to isolate in the post against Jamal Murray with nobody able to offer any help because of the incredible spacing provided by playing Chris Staps at the five, right? But that's the thing. Do you reward the guy who opens up the drive

or the guy who makes the drive? Here's what I would, how I would categorize it as. Chris Stops raises the Celtic ceiling. White raises their floor. Brown and Tatum are the driving forces. And so I think Brown can be, overlooked at times for that reason.

But that's why I would want to reward Brown over Christoph's. But you're right. It's tough to parse the praise pie here. And also the thing about Brown, too, is the redundancies. Sorry, like, these guys provide things to the team that Tatum isn't. All the things that Brown does theoretically, Tatum's already doing better, right? And so, like, that redundancy factor to me is why I'm just like, I kind of dismissed him outright. If, you know, obviously Derek White's next contract, he's not going to get $300 million.

And there's a reason for that. You know what I mean? And so, you know, and again, ultimately, I went with Trey Young anyway. But, yeah, I never even thought about Jalen Brown as my front court guys. Wow. Okay, yeah. I think there's going to be a lot of trading off a vote getting between these three, just for the exact kind of dilemmas we're describing.

But as far as the redundancy was, I think part of it for me is Jalen Brown is forced in a way that requires teams to scout and counter and respond to him. And forceful in a way that, to be honest, not many Celtics players are. When you get into these difficult situations where the Celtics are overpassing or taking a lot of finesse. A lot of finesse. And Jalen Brown is often the only guy actually driving off those actions. And that's something that I appreciate in terms of what he brings to the Celtics.

It's a little different than what you get from Derek White or even Jason Tatum. I love Derek White. I love what he's done for the Celtics team. He definitely unsticks them at times that they definitely need it. But to me, that's like, that's what the NBA title is for. And like, I would actually advocate. I was thinking about this as opposed to a sixth man. I wish there was like a best role player award,

which obviously is tough to designate. But yeah, if you, he might be an all-star. Is he a role player if he's an all-star? I know, it's weird that we wouldn't reward Derek White, but we would reward, I don't know, like Cole Anthony just because he is a six-man and can't start with the team. It's like you're rewarding the fact that he can't fit into the starting lineup.

So unfortunately not, and thus Derek White gets nothing. Yeah. Well, but the other conversation I wanted to have shooting off of what you said, Justin, about Scotty. And specifically the fact that you picked Paolo Bancaro, those are two really interesting candidates

who fill up the box score, do a ton for their teams creatively. And yet, you know, Palo has this similar thing to Scotty in terms of when you look at the impact numbers for him. We're now going on two seasons where the magic are better on offense, better on defense when Palo is off the floor. And I would never sit here and tell you the magic are better without Palo Baner. That's ridiculous. It's a ridiculous idea. But I think it's okay for us to admit that Palo is doing a lot, but he's not driving winning in the way that some of the best players in the league are just yet.

And so how we make sense of what he puts in the box score is difficult, especially when you are comparing him versus the second and third best players on the Celtics, for example. If he was like an offense only guy on a defensive team, then I'd be more ready to ding him. But clearly his size and physicality just like adds value to what they're doing on defense. And I'm not sure what the matter to say about like that. But at the same time, like the Raptors aren't a problem. particularly good defense despite having Scotty in there.

I think they're only slightly better with him on D. So it's not like he's just like completely popping off the stat sheet as a result of that. And like this maybe gets into who you're playing with at a certain point. But like the magic have been okay without Franz. They just, they're still over 500. They're still good enough. But to your point, like I did look at it in like Paulo's season almost pretty similar to what he put up last year.

He was not an all star. and now we're willing to give it to him. So maybe it's a matter of just like the competition at that point. But I hear what you're saying. Yeah, and especially when the reason we'd be giving it to him is because the magic are a dramatically better defensive team in a way that Paulo contributes to but is not the reason why the magic defense is so good. Sure.

Who did you have as your last wild card spot? Did you say that yet? I did not. Oh. Oh. I got into a space where I'm looking at all these candidates we're talking about. the Derek Whites, the Trey Youngs, whichever third Celtic

you're not putting on the list so far. Palo Bancaro for me did not make my list. I went with Jimmy Butler, and I know he's only played 27 games, but that is at the low end of what I'm willing to accept. I just think he's so much better than all these other players were getting into silly territory

if we don't put him on the team. If the rest of the East candidates were a step above, I would feel okay, putting them on, but like, we're talking about Jimmy Butler. I'm talking about one of the 10 or so best players in the league, and he's had a season commensurate with that.

So what are we doing if we don't put him on the team? The missing 15 games, it's not for me. Sorry. That's a lot of games. Like, are these legitimate injuries?

You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't know. Like, I wonder if he was playing for an extension. like say another All-Star Kauai if he would have been playing more games this year. I wonder. I wonder about that.

So I definitely dinged them for the lack of playing. See, you two are just looking to make your job easier. You're trying to disqualify capable candidates. I'm trying to reward the best and brightest in the NBA. And Jimmy Butler is among them. I'm trying to be like the league office here. You don't play 68 games. You can't get MVP.

Sorry. You miss 15 games in the first half of the season. you don't make my All-Star ballet. Is it like a particularly excellent Jimmy season though? He's been good. He's been like what Jimmy is typically, but it's not like he has been so good

in those like 27 or so games that like I have to reward that like I just can't ignore that. It's just like he's been Jimmy when he's been available, which has not been all that often. But I think that, I think just being Jimmy is awesome.

And it's a player who wins games and wins minutes and wins stretches. He does all the things that Jimmy Butler does in a way that I'm not overly concerned with what are ultimately still pretty good box score contributions, but it's not really about what he puts up there for me. It's about what he does on the floor and the impact he has on the shape of a game. And he still has that. Bam is definitely taking on more offensively than he ever has before. And I think if you're going to pick one heat player, it probably should be Bam, based on the overall volume of contribution, what he's doing offensively, in addition to the fact that Bam is an all defense. candidate.

But Jimmy changes things in a way that Trey Young does not change things. The Palo Bancaro does not change things. Like the way these guys alter a game. Trey Young changes things. Let me tell you. For better and worse,

perhaps. But in terms of like actual productive change, Jimmy Butler is doing more to alter games and create wins than any of these other like last cut candidates we're talking about. I think that's a whole availability though,

sort of is the best ability sort of thing. Like it's great that he's doing. that when he's available. Play 30 games, man. Play 30 games, man. I think 30 is like a pretty good cut off here. And same thing with Dame.

Like, I hear Waz's argument that like, even a good Dame year, not a great Dame year is still all-star worthy. But like, he's been okay, you know, three ball isn't really looking all that great lately,

you know? I don't know. Let me make threes, though. We know the guy could shoot, right? Sure, sure. But I guess I'm just, I'm like, I want to reward the body of work in front of me and try to be as like context, or like discredit like history as much as possible. Well, while we're talking about the games played bit, Jimmy Butler, 27 games played right now. Donovan Mitchell, your all-star starter, Justin, 30 games played. Is it so night and day from 27 to 30? Is that so different?

A nice little round number. 30. Chris F. Forzingis, Chris Saps forzingis on your ballot was, 31 games played. Is 31 so different? I know whenever we get to the benchmarks, we can get all arbitrary about it, but we have to have a cutoff, Rob. Like, we can't just say, oh, it's just this thing that's in the air, amorphous, whatever. We need to have a cutoff. You know, like, it's like somebody says, oh, but my birthday is in 14 days. Why should it matter that I'm not 21?

I should be able to drink. No, fuck that. You're not 21. You can't drink. I don't care if your birthday's in 14 days. And somebody whose birthday was yesterday, you guys are basically the same as I don't give a fuck. The cut off is 21.

You're not getting drinks. Jimmy Butler, you're not getting into my club. You're not going to party at All Star. That's it. Gatekeeping his ass. Nope. We're all about arbitrary bright lines on here. We're moving the goalposts.

We're shuffling them around. I will say the one guy who I just could not consider based on games played, who I think would have a very interesting case if he had played more was Lamello Ball, who has been really good for a very bad team and played 19 games. That's just not good enough.

That's not enough even for me. I didn't even get there because he just hasn't been available. Other guys... You gotta play more. Other guys on my short list that we haven't mentioned. I had Demarre Rosen, I had Terry Rosier.

I think we mentioned all the other ones. Scotty Barn, Derek White, Chris Dops. Jimmy. Anybody else you guys considered? Nope. Dejante Murray may be arbitrarily considered but not really.

One guy who I think would have a strong case if his body of work, at least the strength of it has started a little earlier, was Jared Allen, who's been really, really good for Cleveland, especially when their guys have been out. Mitchell gets a lot of credit for that. But Alan's been a hub for their offense in a way that's been really good for that team

and really productive. So he deserves a shout out here, if nothing else. I just couldn't bring myself to put that man's name instead of Trey Young or BAM. Like, come on. And I couldn't bring myself to put Derek White over Jimmy Butler, you know? Yeah. I regret not having BAM. No, I'm looking at it.

Yes. I mean, you can change your ballot. It's all good. It's all good. BAM deserves it. He deserves the love. This shit is arbitrary, Justin. This shit is amorphous.

Let's change it. It's important. Everything is arbitrary except for our third. 30 game cutoff. Yes. Exactly. That is ironclad. Get in on all the NBA buzzer beaters, ankle breakers, and Tomahawk jams with Fandul,

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All right. So in the West, similar thing, I have three guys. Rock solid. The other two ultimately kind of clicked in, I feel pretty confident about them. But the three that I know you guys probably have, at Guard, Shea Gildjus Alexander, Luca Donchich, who's only eligible at Guard, right, Rob? Yes, sir. And Nicoliochich.

No debate, right? I'm glad to hear that you feel confident about the other two, though, because I do not feel confident about the other two. The other two, I hemmed and hard, but ultimately I'm happy. At the very least, these guys are going to be on my list. Oh, without a doubt. I could be talked into them not being starters, but I feel pretty confident I ended up in the right place.

I have Kauai Leonard, and I have Anthony Davis. So I went Kauai and KD. What did you end up with, Waz? Kawai and LeBron. There it is. Take, tack, to tell. Come on now. Come on now.

The Wash King is going to be on my ballot starting. It's going to take a lot to dislodge. Like, these guys would have had to be, like, way better than LeBron to take him off from my ballot. But I had Kauai and LeBron ultimately, obviously, Shea, Luker, Yokage. That goes without saying. Well, let's start with Kauai because I think as far as All-Star goes, Kauai just kept kind of.

chugging along until he made himself almost a lock. It really did build with the attrition of it. I think especially when you compare him to LeBron and KD and AD, three guys who are going to be all-stars. And really, it's just a little bit of a line between the starters and the reserves for some of these guys. But for Kauai, individual brilliance, team success, irreplaceable value to his team,

outright dominance, defensive value. He has all of that stuff in a way where AD and LeBron and Katie, maybe they miss out on one of them or two of them. And Kauai is just kind of bulletproof. Kauai is kind of easy, in my opinion. Just like the efficiency numbers are off the charts. This is probably one of the best Kauai seasons we've seen, probably the best since he was on the MVP ballot.

And what was that? The Russell Westbrook year, 16, 17. He might be better in considering how well the clippers are playing, how well they're playing because of him. Like, this probably is like his shining example of, like, who he is. And he's also been playing. I think that can't go overstated enough.

36 games, Rob Moni. 36 games. So that hasn't happened since early San Antonio days. And so for that reason, I don't think there's much of debate there. Yeah. To me,

to me, Kauai this season is like, um, the killer from the movie, The Killer. But if the killer were actually good. As I say, much more competent than the killer and the killer.

Wait, Spoiler alert, if the killer were actually, you know, as good as he pretends to be. Like, the cold-blooded efficiency of it where this guy, and it's not just, obviously, you know, from mid-range, three-point range, free throw, you name it, at the cup, he's shooting extremely efficiently. It's when you watch the game, the efficiency of movement, the like, there's just no wasted anything with Kowai Leonard. And I just love that about his game. And yeah, this is really exciting stuff if you're a clipper supporter. And yeah, he had to start on my battle. He's just been so elite.

He's been a constant too, right? Like with AD, you have some dry spells, some bad matchups with LeBron. He's pacing himself through some games. Defensively, he phases out sometimes. Kauai is just one of the highest impact, lowest variance players that we have in the league. And by that, I just mean he's a buzzsaw all the time. Most efficient season of his career shooting-wise, 58.8 effective field go. It's incredible.

Rob, who is your last guy? I had Kevin Durant, and I'm kind of surprised that I end up with Durant over LeBron or AD. I just kind of figured throughout most of the season it would be one of those two guys. But for me, Katie, I think, has been too good and too efficient while taking all one of the toughest jobs in the league, which is playing 500 minutes, basically, without Booker or Beal, winning those. minutes by a solid margin and doing it with a revolving door of minimum players where the rotation has changed like almost every night. He has no predictive ability as far as what is going on around him. And the one thing you have not had to worry about in Phoenix is Kevin Durant. He gets

his shots. He hits them in a rate that should be frankly impossible. And this is just what he does. And I think that's worth rewarding in a way that the Lakers have had a bad season. Phoenix has had a weird season. And I think the only reason it's weird and not bad is because of KD. I could see it making the most of Grayson Allen and Josh Akogi. For sure. He's certainly on my ballot for that reason. He's a deserving starter. There's no two ways about it.

Yeah. Was, what's the case for LeBron starting? I mean, to me, he's just been great. He's been as great as he's been these last few seasons, right? Like, he's like, and when you watch the Lakers play, you guys mentioned there is a certain element of ramp up and saving his energy. but when he turns it on, it's ridiculous to watch. The three ball is falling at an all-time rate for him.

And, you know, what I do like about in the games that he's engaged, because there have been like four games this season where you tune into the Lagos and LeBron's just like, fuck these guys. Like, they're not good enough for my effort. And that's absolutely happened. But I think for the most part, given the injuries that the Lakers have suffered,

you know, just given the problems that they've had to start the season, And I just think he's been incredible, man. Just all around brilliance for them. Obviously, he's still their best playmaker. He's done a good job of deferring to the delos and the Austin Reeves of offensive initiation. But I think when it's like, when crunch time comes, it's like, yo, LeBron, do something. Figure it out. And that's what he does.

He's an insane clutch player. Just, I don't know, man. To me, like, late period, LeBron, he's still as good as he's ever been. He's insane. And for a team that has that many problems, Waz, the fact that LeBron is the go-to problem solver, no matter what, comes up, something you absolutely have to credit.

In every matchup, it's like, LeBron, you figure this out. That's just the task that he is assigned in every game. But Justin, like, AD is compelling in that way, too, because he's the one who's covering for all those mistakes, covering for all those shortcomings, the one really the single player who's made the Lakers competent with his ability to impact things defensively. And that was why ultimately defaulted to AD in the starting lineup over LeBron.

I think you guys are right. I don't think the Lakers win as many games as they had without LeBron basically taking the game by the scruff and pulling the Lakers over the finish line. And now there's only 21 of those wins. So hasn't been as much as in your past. So that has to be part of the resume there. But AD has been the best player just in a vacuum. And I have to say this might be one of, if not the best, probably the most complete. maybe Anthony Davis season that we've ever seen.

Let's just say he's playing all the time now. He's only missed two games this season that has to be noted here. Defensively, probably on the ballot at this point in your top three of defensive player of the year, the Lakers defense isn't really good, but he individually, obviously, has been brilliant. Second best, or what was it? No, 6.2 block percentage highest since 2014-15 for him, which was like his first coming of age season when they went and played the Warriors in round one. And also the playmaking

of late has just been incredible. That's always been kind of one of the few sticking points to 80s individual game, 3.8 assists. He's had 12 games already of five or more assists, including in the past four games, 11, 5, 9, 6, which is not only just great in a vacuum. I also think that's representative of how much attention he is drawing and thus having to then just spray it out to other people because of how good he's been. So like, I would say Davis, for me, pretty clearly deserves the fifth spot.

I don't mind it at all. I don't mind LeBron at all. And I think we're probably in the same place. Yeah, and I don't mind KD at all. He's just like, they're right neck and neck in terms of impact as far as I'm concerned. Can I actually say though? Yeah. Like, I think

LeBron as a starter ultimately, I think would have been a non-starter for me because of all the other competition at Ford. I ended up putting four guards on my reserve list for the West. And so LeBron honestly was kind of like the one guy I was teetering on maybe leaving out entirely. The All-Star team? What?

Because then we're talking about their 10th in the West. And all of these other guys are having just as comparable statistical seasons. But they're actually winning games. And so it gets into the debate of like, these guys are doing it. Why can't he also win? But ultimately I went with LeBron because one thing I try to do with this,

I do the blind taste test. And if you're just like giving me the stats of LeBron of 25, 8, and 7, like that's still going to be better than most guys is best. And so I did put LeBron. But like, you know, it's a bonus, a guy who like isn't on my ballot.

Like he's having, he's having a great season last year. And that team is winning. why are we not putting him on? You know what I mean? So it's tough. This is kind of the East and West thing where we were scraping the bottom of the barrel

to figure out our second wild card in the East. I'll do respect to those candidates, but they are not on the level of production of guys like Sabonis who, let's just say it right now. DeMonna Sabonis, scoring 20 a game, leading the league in rebounding, eighth or I think seventh in the league and assists right now,

probably not going to make the All-Star team. That is insane. And yet I can't bring myself to make room for him. So here we are part of the problem here on group chat. Yes. So just to underline that, 21, or excuse me, 20 points, about 13 rebounds,

eight assists. Last year he made the All-Star game with averages 19, 13, and 7 at this point last year. So on the 21st of January of last year. That's how thick this competition is. Do you want to start with forwards then

since we're already talking about it? Sure. We talked about most of them. I have Kevin Durant as well. I have LeBron James as well. And I have Paul George. Yes. I think that sounds like the question for us is who do you put in the last spot? If K.D. and LeBron and AD are all making it.

And Kauai and Yokit are locks. Who is your last spot? I'm also a Paul George guy. My last spot is Rudy Gobert. The man is anchoring the most dominant defense. Like they are the number one defense by a mile. Okay. Sure.

They're number one or they're close to number one and number two in the West. Like they're winning on defense. That's why they win games. And Rudy Gobert is why their defense is dominant. So to me, like I couldn't leave Rudy off of the team. Like Rudy is my last front court guy. Wow. And but actually I have two front.

I have some bonus in as well. Oh, you have on your wild cards. He's one of my wild cards. The front court for me was Kauai and LeBron starting, AD, KD, and Rudy. And it's a bonus as one of my wild cards. Interesting. It's a tough battle, but to me, we got to have some respect for the best, most dominant defense in the NBA right now. And the guy that is most responsible for it, you know, I got to put Rudy.

Plus, he might cry about it if he doesn't make you. You're doing so well. We got to think about the mental health of Rudy Gobert, too. Caping for Rudy Gobert, this is a whole new you. Yeah, yeah, I'm turning a new leaf, y'all. I am so glad you did this. I was legitimately, like, tossing and turning, trying to figure out how to get Rudy Gobert on this ballot.

Because you're right, like, the idea of not rewarding the best defense in the NBA with its best defensive player as an All-Star, especially in a league where there's basically been one team who can stop anybody. That's it. It feels wrong to not have him on there, but I ended up feeling wrong.

Yeah, I don't have him on my ballot at all. In part because of the competition, in part because it would be nice if he played offense. You know, like I almost want to reward Towns over Gobert, even though I realize that a lot of the wolves as a success is coming on defense. But Towns has also had pretty incredible season in his own right. It's having a nice year. While playing solid defense while busting his ass on the perimeter,

trying to guard some of these guys while Rudy Gobert parks himself at the basket. But I didn't have any other forwards. Did we all have Paul George on there, though? No. Paul George is not on my team. Oh, interesting. I thought on my team. I think Paul George, especially with how much creative control he's had to give up,

I would say more than any other clipper, frankly, his new role has looked so good on him and has fits so well, and he's been so hyper-efficient in it. And it just kind of reinforced everything I love about Paul George's game, which is how scalable and adaptable and perfectly complimentary tree it is. So if you're going to pick a second star, I feel good about picking the second star who complements any lead player in the NBA, but in this case, Kauai. Yep. The efficiency is remarkable. Also having the most efficient scoring season of his career. So both Kauai, a lot of

that going around. And Paul George have just been lights out, which like at a certain point, you have to have the James Hardin discussion when we get into the guards. But like, that's probably a big part of it. But these guys have just locked into place. The playmaking isn't, there as much with Paul George, but you're right. I think the way that he has almost volunteered to be the most diminished one of the three and just thrived

in that role, I think you have to give him credit for that. Should we go to the guards then? Yeah, where did you go with Justin? So in my two guard spots, I have Anthony Edwards and I have Deerne Fox. And then in my wild cards, I have Steph and Devin Booker. Okay. I have the same

four players, but in the opposite order. For me, Steph and Devin Booker are the go-to backup guards. And then I ended up with Edwards and Fox as my wild cards. I value winning in this league. It's all about the Ws. That's the stat I care about. How many Ws

do the Kings have relative to some of these other Western Conference teams? Slightly more. Yeah, so my guards in the back court, Steph and D-Book to me,

they're the two best guards. Like, if you, when you're not talking about Shea and Luca, I think, like, all of us would agree they're the two best guards having the two best seasons after Shea and Luke, like, to me, that's just obvious to me. And then my wild card was Anthony Edwards,

because it feels like the story of the season is becoming an Anthony Edwards type story. story, like, he's a big part of the story of this first half of the season. So I couldn't leave A.E. off. And, yeah, James Hardin and DeAaron Fox were, you know, also considered. Definitely Hardin specifically just the way he's coming to the Clippers and he's just giving them this extra umph of playmaking and, you know, a source of offense that they've never possessed. even when, you know, the first year that Kauai got there, the bench units used to be manned by

Lou Will and Montres Harrell and this beautiful pick and roll dynamic that they had developed. It was dope to see. But it wasn't, like, that was an element of what the clippers brought to offense. But that's not what, it's not the Hardin thing, man. Like, Harden making, you know, Mason Plumley a useful NBA player again is like, come on, man. Like, this is incredible. but he was the last sort of person, him and Fox, are the last one off as far as the guards that also got considered.

One, him helping, as we've said, Kauai Leonard have the most efficient season of his career. Paul George have one of the most efficient seasons of his career. These things are not a coincidence. Hardin's effect on those guys has been really pronounced. And taking some of that creative responsibility off their plate, I think has been great for everybody involved. But I think we're zeroing in on one of the tougher decisions on the ballot,

which is what to do with the last Western Conference wildcard spots and specifically what to do with the Kings because Subonis and Fox are both perfectly worthy candidates and how you decide which one to vote for I think says a lot about what you value and what Sacramento does well and what you maybe hold against Subonis, I think at least that was the case for me,

in terms of what the limits of that team are. And I think Fox more easily plugs into the best version of the Kings and doesn't really factor into the worst version of the Kings in a way that I still worry about. about Sabonis' defense. I still worry about the way that size can affect him in some matchups. He's been amazing, but Deeran Fox has been one of the best drivers, one of the best high volume three-point shooters, and is a really good mid-range floater option just for the hell of it. Like, how do I leave a guy like that off my team? Fox was on the MVP valid,

like the fake one a month ago. And so I don't want to like just completely drop him from even like the guard spot as opposed to a wild card spot. I know Steph Curry is Steph Curry's had a pretty good year for for Steph's lofty standards. But obviously that team has been bad. He's not making it all stole with Steph Curry. I can't do it. No, I wouldn't do it over him. Well, actually, no, I would do it over it.

I think you just literally did. Yeah. But I mean, Steph's on my wild card spot. But like, you just said it, Rob. Like Fox's efficiency at high volume from three has been comparable to Stephs. I know they're not the same player. Like, Steph probably warps defenses in ways that Fox never can. But like, again, I'm rewarding the body of work.

and I do think like they're what, sixth, seventh in the NBA right now, seventh in wins, it could easily be fifth tomorrow. Like, that has to matter,

I think in the calculus of that. And I agree with you. I do think Fox is driving that team success in the way that Sabonis is maybe not quite. See, I don't even know

that I agree with that because I think Subonis is driving it. It's almost a question of do you prioritize the structural player? And Sabonis is a structural player for their offense. He is running a lot of what they do. But Fox is kind of more

incisive in the way he operates and more unstoppable in the way he operates. It's almost a question of a star creating easy offense, the way Sabonis creates easy offense for lots of different people, versus a star making the most of difficult situations, which to me is what Fox does so well. And which one of those things is the star skill set? I think Fox's is a little bit more of a star skill set, even though Subonis is so productive. This conversation reminds me of Russell Westbrook's MVP year, where the two guys, Kauai and Hardin, that were like immediately behind them, everybody agreed was better, were better players easily.

Like, nobody would say Sabonis is a better player than Diara Fox. But at a certain point, when you putting all of this shit on the fucking floor, all of these goddamn stats, all of this production, there needs to be. to be some reward for it, right? And that's my case for Sabone. It's like, obviously, y'all know I don't think he's better than Fox. But at a certain point, the production is what the production is. Like, he's actually putting these stats on the floor.

And it's meaningful what he's doing with playmaking and facilitation and, you know, rebounding at his size and stuff like that. And still managing to score at a nice clip. You can't take that away from him. I'm glad you mentioned Russ, though, because as I was doing sort of like the blind taste testing thing I was mentioning before with Sabonis, I was like,

if you told me 2013 and 8, and that was Russell Westbrook, he'd be starting with the bullet just because of how much celebrity and fanfare and gusto Russ does it with. And yet, here we have Sabonis on the cutting room floor. And if Russell Westbrook is doing it with 63% an effective field goal percentage.

Something he has literally never done in his life. Yeah. And that's the thing, right. The percentages would be tanked. So, because Russ has to take, what, four to five, three-pointers a game that he shouldn't. So, but also, I mean, in the Fox sub-bonous discussion

we were having before, also Fox doesn't probably drag down their defense as much as Sub-Bonis. I know that like Sub-Bonis is foundational to the offense and success, but the fact that they have to play him at center also probably, like is it something as a foundational problem that stems from Sabonis and I ding him for that for that reason.

Well, and depending on how you make your ballot up, you don't necessarily have to choose between them. You could put both Fox and Subonis on the ballot in a way that if you want to consider Subonis against Paul George, for example, or for you was Sabonis against Rudy Gobert, how do you look at the second best players on some of these other really good teams

and what they do and what they contribute? Because Subonis is, again, more operatively important to the Kings, then at least Paul George is to the Clippers. I would say Rudy Gober is a different case because their defense is so important to them winning. But for Paul George, or even if you want to have the conversation

about Anthony Davis, frankly, given how bad the Lakers have been overall, I think to get a second best player on a team into an all-star team like this, into a ballot as competitive as this one, you either have to be a top-10 guy like AD or you have to be a clear-cut powerhouse like the clippers have been.

And for better or worse, Sabonis and the Kings are kind of neither of those things. And that's not to say they're not really good or deserving, or Subonis wouldn't be a deserving pick or candidate because he clearly is. But I think that's why ultimately one of him or Fox is going to get left off the ballot. Yeah, the teammates I have in the West

come from the Clippers, the Lakers, and the Sons. And now the Clippers, very deserving. The other two teams are two of the bigger disappointments of the first half of its season. Yeah. And I ultimately just think this comes down to Star Power. Like we're recording this, what, two days after Devin Booker had 52 points in 37 minutes

against the fifth place team in the NBA. It's like at a certain point, like you just, you can't argue with it. And so I appreciate what Rudy Gobert is doing. I appreciate what Towns is doing. I appreciate what Chet Holmgren is doing. He was on my long list as well. Played every game, by the way. Don't worry.

I tried to contort myself in ways to, to allow Chet to be on this ballot. It was just not possible. It's tough right now. But this conversation is a good time to talk about another pretty deserving candidate who I think just has no shot to make the All-Star team.

And that's Brandon Ingram. Because if we're looking at all these disappointing teams who are going to have two All-Stars in the West, only one team is posed to be top 15 by record without an All-Star. And that's the Pelicans. And that's a raw deal.

But I think it is, indicative of the construction of the team where that team is more balanced in a way that diffuses responsibility and praise than the Sons or the Lakers. Those are just not comparable situations and it's unfortunate that a really good player like Ingram has to take the hit for that

but it is what it is in terms of how much you contribute to winning and what your teammates are able to offer you and support. Yeah, some of the guys that just aren't going to make this team is kind of ridiculous. Jamal Murray obviously not, he's a cutoff.

guy, sorry, but like, damn, Jamal Murray, after, you know, watching that Boston Celtics game, like, he was just as good as everybody on the freaking floor. Like, when this guy is rolling, it's really crazy to watch. He's not going to make it. Zion is up. Do you think there's

any chance with Murray that the coaches just go, championship validation for Jamal Murray? That would be cool. That would be dope if they did that. I can see it especially because he hasn't made an all-star team. So that's going to be in people's mine.

So I could see it. I would be in support of that. And nobody could say that Jamal Murray is not an all-star level player. Like, he's clearly one of the best in the game. No doubt.

It's also games played, though. Games played is tough. 29. Sorry. Can't get in the club. Can't get in the club. This is the worst bid you guys have ever had. Just the worst.

Can't get in the club. Lori marketing. Yes. We got to talk about Lori. Come on. Yeah. This guy is playing incredible. and you guys weren't in Salt Lake last year, man.

But the size of these Lori Marketing in billboards, he's living up to it, wise. He's living up to the billboards. He's living up to it now. Like, he's so freaking good, bro. If we were doing this exercise two weeks from now, I kind of think Larry Marketing makes the team. I'm taking some bonus out.

My America first ballot, I'm taking it because, you know, he has to replace the bonus. on this ballot. So I'm kicking some bonus out and Lori's coming in. This is like the inverse of a Euro league roster

where you can only have a couple players on an American passport. Only a couple international players on Waz's team. But yeah, I think the jazz

starting a little slow. One win over the Lakers or half game over the Lakers as we're recording this. No Lori marketing. It's tough. Very tough.

Especially their offense with him on the floor has been insane. No matter how you slice it, no matter how you parse the data, no matter who's been on the floor with him, been absolutely insane. And I found him, honestly, to be an excruciatingly tough call.

I was really hoping there was going to be room for Markanin, but him against Fox, him against Edwards, him against Gobert, for that matter was, those are tough things to make, like tough arguments to make when those teams have been more successful. And I'm not someone who subscribes the idea that, like, just because you've won so many games, you demand an all-star. No, I don't.

And you're not making my all-star over Anthony Edwards, sorry. or deep book or like like it's just it's just it's not going to happen and the again Rudy again he's anchoring like it's not that their their defense is good it's leaps and bounds better than everybody else's like that matters and it's and their offenses in the bottom 10 okay like they're they're literally beating people on defense at an elite clip you know i you just can't you can't fight with that. Sorry, Lari. Well, we didn't even mention our oblong king,

Elper and Shengoon. Got a name him in here. Nine and five. He deserves a mention. He's carrying their offense. A nice little golf clap for a team outside of the top ten in the West. That's fair. Obviously, more of a

defensive team that he's just like kind of getting their offense by, but clearly deserves consideration in here. He's like, he's on my long list with everyone else we've mentioned in addition to Ingram. And I do think we need to mention Zion here too, who I just have to say, like, he's on my long, long list. He's like the longest of the long list. But I have to say, of all the possible outcomes of this Zion season, Zion playing but being okay was was probably the lowest in the odds.

What are just complete baffling turn of events? Yet again, like somehow he is surprising us and disappointing us yet again despite playing and despite playing just like pretty well enough that I would consider from Allster but not seriously. He would be considered in the East. We'll leave it at that. Oh, for sure. Yeah. But would you

would you put Zion over the team over Chet Holmgren over Carl Anthony Towns? Like over Murray if it was a wildcard situation? There's just so many good candidates in the West. And we haven't even talked about some of the more complex ones. Like Victor Webbenyama in some seasons maybe has a case, But the Spurs have been so bad, and this conference is so deep.

It's hard to put him in there. Yeah, like I mentioned, my long list was 10 deep. I mean, I think the interesting conversation is how many of these guys that didn't make our ballots would have made the East,

right? Lorry is definitely... Oh, yeah. So if my forwards are Brown, Randall, Ben Carroll, if you want to throw even Bam in there, I would get rid of a three or four of them.

Three probably. Towns has to be in there. Go bare. Lowry Markinin would be just like a no questions asked forward. Hardin is definitely making the All-Star team in the East. For sure. Yeah. I think the only East guys that I would keep on the reserves for sure are Brunton and Maxi.

I think the rest of them can go. What a league. What a weird distribution of talent we have right now. Yep. Yeah, Chris Stab, Scotty Barnes, y'all not making the West. I'm just not making a way. Probably not. Y'all just not making the West.

And of course, Derek White doesn't even get a consideration. No. It wouldn't even be a consideration, not even a token one. Derek White over Jamal Murray? Not happening. No, it's not happening. The Hardin is another one to consider when we think about who we're deciding we would put on our ballots versus who coaches might.

I think Hardin has such a strong pedigree. And if anything, coach voting leans toward pedigree, leans toward veterans. The only problem with that is literally everybody in the West has a pedigree right now. And the only guys who don't are, you know, Shady Gilgis Alexander, for example, who's going to make it without a doubt, you know, not even a bubble candidate in the slightest. So there's really no one to bump out for Hardin, but I think it's worth flagging. This past two weeks is the first time ever since the Paul George trade. But I was like, man.

man maybe maybe that wasn't the you know obviously great trade for the clippers that i thought it was in real it's like because because the idea was that they were going to compete for championships the next three years i think obvious the answer is obvious that paul george three years after that trade was just a better player than she was i think that's just an obvious truth but the the kind of of superstar this guy is turned into. Like he's going to perennially start All-Star games. He's going to be an MVP ballets

for the next five years or so. As Paul George ever made one MVP ballot in his life? You know? It's kind of crazy. I think that might be the only one. But I think Shea is going to be probably the best player on the floor in almost any series of Thunder play.

And what a luxury to have for a team like Oklahoma City right now? 33 points against that top ranked defense last night in Minnesota. He just shows up all the time. It's like, we need to start taking him very seriously for the 70s. So, yeah,

that's going to be interesting. Anything else you guys nostalgic for, for the draft? You know, you're just like, damn, I really wish Janice and LeBron would be picking humans on the stage. Absolutely not.

Again, I was at All-Star. I was in Salt Lake. that whole draft starting lineup, blah, blah. It took like 45 minutes, dude. It was insane. And then they finally started the game, which I, of course, had no juice,

no, you know, sense of urgency to it. It was terrible. Good riddance to the draft. But if Janus or LeBron want to sell us their notes on their draft order with the associative commentary, I think we could spring some room in the budget for that. I think we could expense that, right, Justin? that's how we got Dame to Milwaukee eventually, right?

You know? You snubbed Drew? I'm sure that was it. I'm sure Damien Lillard was like, oh, because Janus picked me for the All-Star game, that must that's why I want to go to my second choice team into the trade market. You poo-poo, but I do think those sorts of things are revealing of people's interests and motivations more than we give it credit for. Like, most of the NBA of the past 10 years was written because guys were hanging out

on team USA. Like, like, these things do come together when they all are together. I don't think Dane was like, get me to Milwaukee because this guy really believes in me as an all-star teammate.

I just think, like, he had a respect for Dame, which has been reported for years and years now. They almost like worked out and all this other stuff. So there was clearly like admiration on both sides. That came through and that very revealing moment

that you're just riding off as nothing. I just push back in almost all cases against the idea that what you see is all there is, that these are professional athletes with full lives who literally anytime they want, Yannis can call Damian Lillard and tell him how great he is or shoot him a text or whatever.

Why does the one time something is captured on camera? What makes that more material or important than anything else? Because you know, if it doesn't happen on camera, it happens on social it never happened. Everybody knows that. Well, I will say this, though. I think like an

egotistical all-star is less likely to like send a weird like just your great man text to someone. Like I'm not going to do that to you guys but like in this setting you would you'd be able to tell my feelings about you. Oh, it's not that all that different. This explains a lot about top five teams.

Yeah, we're both the endings of top five teams. I've never heard Justin say a complimentary word about literally anybody. So it makes sense that he's not lighten us up, was and really putting some wind in our sales once in a while. Justin, where in Europe are your people from and does it rhyme with freak? Because we can call you the freakiest podcaster going forward.

I'm good with that branding. Might get us into some trouble. But hey, hey guys, you guys are okay. All right? I appreciate you. Wow.

Thank you, Thanks, buddy. All right. On that note, on that warm and fuzzy note, thank you to Jack Sanders. production. Thank you to Bank Cruise. We'll be back on Wednesday. We'll see it. Must be 21 plus and present in select states. FanDul is offering online sports wagering in Kansas

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