The Ringer NBA Show - All-Star Starters, Zion’s Return, and Montrezl Harrell Rumors. Plus: Horford for Gallinari? | The Mismatch

Episode Date: January 24, 2020

We review the announced starters for the NBA’s All-Star Game (1:02) before discussing Zion Williamson’s return (47:00), debating whether the Sixers should trade Al Horford (21:22), and considering what the Clippers should do with their rim-running center, Montrezl Harrell (33:49). Hosts: Chris Vernon and Kevin O’Connor Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hey, it's Liz Kelly and welcome to the Ringer podcast network. This Wednesday on the site, we are releasing our 2020 NFL draft guide, where you can find all things draft related leading up to the first round on April 23rd, including scouting reports on each prospect by Danny Kelly and much more. We'll be updating it regularly with new analysis that takes all the latest developments into account. You can check that out on Wednesday on the ringer.com. Welcome to The Ringer NBA show. I'm Chris Vernon. And joining me as he does every Friday from The Ringer.com is Kevin O'Connor, aka Kevin Obama.

Kevin O Concert, Kevin O'Conflict, Kevin O'Candyland, aka Kevin O'Penionated, Kevin O'Climber. Verno, what's going on this Friday? Well, we had a very interesting night last night because as the TNT games were getting started, they announced the All-Star starters for both of the conferences. In the Western Conference, I think that everybody could have filled out their Western Conference starters, and it would have been virtually unanimous. amongst media and for the most part the fans.

The Eastern Conference was going to be interesting because you knew that there would be some players that got more of the fan votes, most intently, Kyrie Irving, right? We knew that Kyrie was probably going to get. And Taco Fall, of course. Oh, yeah, and Taco Fall.

But who would end up being the starters in that game? And it turned out that there were two surprises, one of which was Pascal Seacom, who we've talked about a lot on the show this year, who has certainly taken even another leap in his game and was clearly shocked and elated to be named an All-Star starter and Trey Young, where the question was he is on the worst team in the league, what level of reward will he get? Well, he got the highest, which is being able to be a starter in the game. And that was by virtue of, you know, Kyrie Irving, who,

was the fan rank would have been one of the starters and yet the player rank and the media rank both had him at 6th and so that's how Trey got bumped up but Trey Young and Pascal Seaccom all-star starters. What do you think?

I don't mind it. I'm a little bit surprised that Trey ended up winning the vote but then again I shouldn't be because the fans had him number one media at number two. I expected Ben Simmons to get the vote because of how stellar he's been on the defensive end of the floor this year.

But I guess with Trey and with NBA viewers in general, whether you're a critic, whether your media, whether you're a fan, people tend to favor offense. And Trey in his second season has been one of the most exciting players to watch on the offensive end of the floor in the league. So in that way, I'm not too surprised. But I am in the sense that like maybe Ben Simmons putting up better numbers on a better team, I thought he would get the edge. The other one to me is Jimmy Butler.

Because Jimmy Butler, look, you know, I've been on this for years. I think he's the most underrated player in the NBA. I think he is a bona fide superstar that does not get the superstar label. He makes every team he plays on better. I know he has, it's ended poorly in places. But it finally feels like he's found the right mix. And surprise, surprise, they're good again. I mean, look, he left the Bulls, the Bulls turned to crap.

He left the Timberwolves, the Timberwolves turned to crap. And now he goes to Miami, which was a Midland team last year, and they have had one of the best records in the Eastern Conference. I know there was that tricky thing of, is he a forward? Is he a guard? I don't know how he was labeled. You know, I know that you hate the positions thing. And this is a perfect example of that.

Jimmy Butler, I know he made a mockery of the All-Star game a few years ago, too, by not even playing in the game. that being said I thought Butler would be there I really did I thought Butler would be there as one of the starters especially given the success of Miami this year I don't understand why he wasn't listed

as a back court player right I don't I don't understand I mean I think with positions look it helps you and me and fans you know talking amongst each other it helps us have conversations to categorize these players and put them into groups

it helps us look at centers on the stat sheet. You know, look at just guards. But when it comes to voting in today's positionless league for all-star and all-N-B-A, I don't understand how it happens at somebody like for all-N-BA last year. What makes LeBron a forward, but not a guard like Ben Simmons?

What makes Jimmy Butler this year a forward when he is the leading assist, a leading player with touches possession time on the Miami heat? He runs that offense, essentially. I don't understand what makes him a front court player. Why is it that Anthony Davis is listed at front as forward and center in all NBA, whereas other guys who have similar distribution next playing next to another big man are only as a center or only as a forward? It's a screwy process and the simple way to solve it is just get rid of positions.

Because teams don't look at the size of a player in today's league and slot them into a position. They look at their skill. And that's the role that they take on. and I hope the NBA at some point just removes positions entirely and just goes with like the five best guys. Like it shouldn't matter what position you are. And I'll say this, man,

people could say, ah, who gives a crap? It's just the all-star game and nobody cares about it. Look, it does matter. It is an honor. It is an honor to be able to start the all-star game.

It's not just an honor, but guys get bonuses for it too. Absolutely. Like some guys, look, you know, one person's benefit is another person's law. But the fact is that some guys have bonuses tied to an all-star appearance.

Not only that, but with all NBA, it's even more significant because you have the supermax implications and all that. So there's financial implications for these players as well. And that's that as well as the honor is what matters. Yeah. And I thought they had an interesting conversation last night, which was what would have happened if Curry is totally healthy and being the Steph Curry that, you know, you thought he would be like we thought we were on on track to maybe have a monster curry season.

Yep. And what happens? I thought this was an interesting debate because I don't know how it plays out. If Curry's there and is putting up the numbers that we think he would have if he wouldn't have gotten hurt this year, I mean, really? You're not going to have either Luca or James Hardin as a starter? Like, it seems implausible, but it would have been a hell of a deal if it played out. If Curry had, let's say Curry's averaging like 34 points and seven assists right now.

And Hardener or Luca wouldn't be the starter. Well, the easy, the easy option here is like, Kauai gets bumped off. You know, he missed, you know, he's load managed. He's a part-time player right now during the regular season, which is fine. But that wouldn't have happened. But it wouldn't have happened because of the silly positions. And like, I don't really care for All-Star. I just don't care.

It's an exhibition game. It matters to an extent because of bonuses. what I care about is with all NBA. And that's where I really, really think it should be a conversation, which is why I'm glad we're talking about it. Well, many times it does dictate it. It does dictate.

You know what I mean? You look back and you say, this guy didn't even make the All-Star team, what, he's going to be All-MBA. And that has happened. That has happened several times where a guy didn't make the All-Star game, but then he ended up being one of the all-NBA teams at the end.

And part of it is because, look, the fans will make a mockery of it cases. You mentioned Taco Fall. There was the Caruso thing. And I know the players. Players do too. They can make a super mockery of it. Look, I'll tell you a quick story. Fans did a pretty good job. Fans did a really good job overall. When currently, well, I mean, come on, they're voting more for Zach Levine than Jalen Brown. I know, but besides, I know, I know, but like the guys who were at the top though, Janus was one, Siakum two and Bede three. Trey one, Kyrie two. I know that. silly, but Kemba 3.

And in the West it was perfect. Yeah. Right? You know, it wasn't bad. I agree with you. I agree with you. So, but the players, look, the quick story, I know that they can make a mockery of it. Years ago, I did a video with Tony Allen when he was going to, like, we were doing this video of him selecting

his all stars. Bro. He wouldn't give, like, he wasn't going to vote for anybody that he, like, played against all the time. And that, like, so he was, like, voting, like, Luke, Babbit. and like all these guys, like just guys that like, oh yeah, he deserves a, or guys that he had played with in the past, you know, that he liked. So it would be like, you know, Leon Po or somebody, you know, I mean, I saw. I love Leon Paul.

I've seen it be made up. Seen it be made a mockery of, but you look now and it's not just back then, look, Zion Williams had got two votes. These are the players, okay? Taco Fall. got seven votes from players. Justice Winslow got, Justice Winslow, who's missed most of the season, got a vote.

How about this? Just one vote? Yeah. That's himself. Yes. All right. Theanus Antecoompo got six player votes. Costas onto de Kumpo got five,

which he has not scored yet this season. So maybe the players got confused. How about this one? Your guy, Grayson Allen, got two. Is that true? He got two. Hey. Dylan Brooks had eight.

I'm just going through for the Grizzlies. No, the best one? No, the best one. Bowl, bowl got a vote. Wow. I didn't see that. Yes. Does Bull, bowl get a vote?

I don't know. You're not allowed to vote for yourself. Oh, you're not? No, uh-uh. So that's just somebody making a mockery of it. Interesting. Okay. And that's a dang, look, the NBA, uh, you know,

they let. Fans make up 50% media 25%, players 25%. And the players clearly make the biggest mockery of it. Both the fans and the media take it more seriously. Even though I say that, but yet all those fans voted for Alex Caruso and Taco Fall to be funny. Yeah, but that's just Lakers fans and Celtics fans. I know. And it's not like those guys are going to make the All-Star team.

Yeah, it's just for fun. You know. That's right. on that level it is. So anyways, the only one, what about Siakum? I think that's the right choice. I think where it was wrong

was Butler should have been listed as back corner guard, whatever it is, over Trey Young. That's the only difference that I think I would have had if it were a positionalist, but it's not. Okay. I'm cool with it. I'm cool with what happened.

I think, I think it's great. No, no, like, major disagreements. And let's just say that at the very top end, the players look their rankings are their rankings and they had lebron davis kawai yokech george like that was one through five it got a little goofy when they're you know putting carmelo anthony ahead of rudy gobert or whatever but that's neither here nor there what is fascinating to me is when you look at the player rank and the guys that end up a little bit higher or a little bit lower than you think.

And their greatest disparity was Chris Paul. And then Jimmy Butler got added disparity in the Easter conference too. But in terms of what like a media rank versus a player rank at a fan rank. And I was surprised. The players had him low. The players had him at 9th. Only 18 player votes. I mean, that's just like, and it makes me feel like.

John Morantz had 22. Devin Booker 39. And that makes me feel. feel like Paul and Butler are the guys that truly rub guys the wrong way and they don't want to they don't want to vote for them. You know what I mean?

Like I ain't vote for him. And that's what's going to make the conversation and the debate about the reserve choices so fascinating. Because you're going to have some of the new faces that are going to get hyped in the West, whether it's someone like a Brandon Ingram on the back end of that roster

or somebody like a Donovan Mitchell or a Devin Booker versus Chris Paul. And then there's going to be guys to get left off as well. I give you this one. Hey, if it came down and I know you're a Booker fan and Booker had a very high player rank, he's killing it. Killing it.

Very high player rank. Very high player rank. Okay. If it came down to Booker and Ingram, who would you give it to? Probably give the edge to Ingram. Interesting. Yes. Because that helps your Ben Simmons argument a lot.

No, I don't. I don't. This is, hey, this is, I am, look, I am, I am making you choose between your firstborn and your second born here. Sure, yeah. With Booker and Ingrams. I mean, like with Devin Booker, that, that good, uh, good stats, bad team player conversation has died for the most part, even though the sons. I, look, I have not seen it. I still stink.

I have, I know it does, but I haven't seen that on Twitter on, on anywhere online this season. Well, because they're not as bad. Yeah. Because everybody's, everybody's moved that to Tray Young. No, but, but here's the thing like, it was,

it was silly last year when people were like, oh, Booker, Booker is a ball dominant player. He's a ball hog. No, he's not. He had to be that.

And this year, now that he has a point guard, a guy who can handle the ball in Ricky Rubio, we're seeing how good Booker has always been going back to high school. As a cutter, as a player off screens,

as a guy who knows how to play team ball. and he's had the opportunity to do that this year with Ricky Rubio and I think that has finally allowed people to respect his overall game and show he doesn't need to be a ball hog when really like that should have been apparent he just had to do that by necessity

in the last couple of years. I'm happy that the perspective of Booker has finally changed. That being said you would give the nod to Engram. Yeah, I mean, I'd probably have both on the team if we're doing full reserve picks. Over

Paul, you cannot over curse Paul. You can't have both of them over. I think Chris Paul could be in the team too. Well, you're running out of spots, Kev. I know I'm running out of spots. You can't, you can't let everybody be an all-star here. Yeah.

I think he should be on due. You know what? I think Yultes Alexander should be there too. Well, this isn't everybody gets a trophy. I'm not saying that. But like, no, no. I mean, it's 12 spots. So it's guys like a Westbrook Mikeet left off.

or a Carl Towns might get left off. That's where we're at. Oh, okay. Or a Paul George might get left off. I don't think if games played. You know, that's where we're at. It's, I think, I think I'd probably have Booker and Engram on there and Paul. Oh, my God.

You got, you got everybody on there. All right. Just full spots. They unveiled the jerseys. I don't like them. That's all I'll say about that. Yeah, I don't know if I even saw them. Yeah.

They're not great. we have not spoken since we saw Zion's debut the other night, which for three quarters looked like, ah, well, I mean, I was super excited to watch this. You don't like those jerseys? Those are colorful. I like the colors. I just look them up.

No, I like the old school ones. I like the retro ones. I love the black ones a few years ago that they had. I even like last year's a lot. I wouldn't wear them. I wouldn't wear it. I don't think jerseys look good on me. Last year's black one looked really good.

Those didn't look cool. Do you wear jerseys? I've got a ton. Do you wear them? If I'm messing around, like if I'm playing with my son or like I'm being funny or like somebody wins, you know what I mean? And I'm going to, I'll wear a jersey to. Yeah, yeah.

Oh, I wear a jersey every Sunday. I'm that, yeah, I go down, we go down to my father's house. Me and my son do. And we all wear jerseys. Yes. I like wearing a jersey on Sundays as well. But basketball is different. You know what I mean?

Like during the summer, if I'm out of summer. side screwing around or something. I mean, that's sort of what the NBA was going for with the sleeve jerseys. Like, they were probably hoping those would catch fire. Yeah, it didn't catch on. No, it didn't at all. Did not catch on. I, look, I think it's worth to experiment.

Have you ever, have you ever put one on there tighter than hell? I never have. It would not, it's not good for my, my physique, your physique, it ain't a good look. My physique. I know, I'm just kidding. It's not good. I have like, we got to be careful. I think I'm like, I've gained a way.

I think I'm, I think I'm, I'm straight. eating. We're both a little lumpy. That's a conversation for a different day. I'm stress eating. I know. I really think I am. If anybody deserves to stress eat,

it's you. You have been to hell and back over the last six months. Feels good to eat, that's for sure. He doesn't like eating. I mean, I'll be honest. It's like sometimes I feel like

I don't, I don't care enough to ever get ripped. I just don't. I mean, like food is too good. Why? Why restrict yourself? I mean, if you're someone like me and you are not blessed with a fast metabolism, why kill yourself? Enjoy food. So what if you have a little bit of a dad bod?

I'm going to tell you this, man. I tell you this. And this is a good tip for anybody out there that has got a girl that they think they really love and whatever. Look, it all goes away. We're all going to end up looking goofy in 30, 40 years. So you better end up finding somebody that you like. You know what I mean? Not always. Like you like. Hey, there's some. Come on.

I mean, look. Unless you marry Christy Brinkley. They're very attractive people in their 40s and 50s. I said 30, 40 years. Oh, so you're talking 6070. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. At that point, it's quite rare.

We all got moms and dads, man. We all have moms and dads. And I got pictures of my mom and dad when they were young, too. You know what I mean? Like, who's the best looking older woman? I can think of Selma Hyac. I think. she's what 54 something like that

I don't know George Clooney right how about J-Lo let's take out of consideration oh so no celebrities allowed so no Clooney no J-Lo no Brad Pitt they're not they don't count

even even then though it's rare though if you take a sample of like a hundred celebrities you're still gonna have a Tom Hanks who has like a normal looking buddy I mean in 60s I'm just saying for everybody Everybody's got moms and dads. You know what I mean?

I'm sure there's somebody out there listening who's got, whose dad's ripped. But that's like one guy who's got the ripped dad. Well, I mean, right? That's out there listening to us. Right now I'm trying to grow a beard. Oh, no. I was,

I was watching a video on YouTube of this guy, and it was like 50s or something with this magnificent gray beard. And it's just amazing. And I looked at his Instagram without, without the beard. Like, he is so unattractive. But he is, he is ripped, dude. Oh, Kevin O'Cla. It's like 57.

It's crazy. Anyway, a beard can make a big difference. I'm trying to grow a beard. That's Kevin O'Claas. That's what we're going to call you. Then when I'm back in L.A., I can, you know, maybe some of those hipster girls will swipe right on me. And kind of all that.

Those hipster girls. girl. Oh my gosh. How are we doing on the beard? I mean, actually it's coming in pretty well. There's no, there's no bad Jason Tatum spots. You know what I mean?

It's coming in well. Well, and I'm going to get to see you next month at the All-Star game. I want that thing full on by All-Star. I'm worried about, and this is like the stage, I think everybody goes through if they're trying to grow a beard. The point where it kind of looks scraggily,

but you need to keep growing it. Power through, Kev. I know, I know. Power through. I want full bearded Kevin O'Connor by the time we go to the All-Star game in Chicago. And you know what you'll need it because it's going to be like two degrees anyway. Oh, I know. Dude, it makes a difference.

It really does. No, I'm serious. I love it. Already I feel a difference with the warmth of my neck and face. It feels nice. I like it. All right. Let's get to something very important that we do need to talk about besides your beard.

And that is the rumor mongering page came back at the ringer. and you took part in this, and one of the things that you talked about was a possible Gala Nore. I mean, that's still out there, though the Oklahoma City Thunder have overachieved as compared to what many people thought they would do this year and have a, I think a dangerous team that you probably would not want to face come playoff time. We know the situation with Gallo,

and you don't know what the resigning probability is there, And so his name is going to come up as a guy with the contract that could be moved. You mentioned with Philly? How the hell is Gallo going to Philly? So I reported this week that Philly and Dallas amongst a number of other playoff teams have at least inquired about Danilo Galanari, who's an unrestricted free agent this summer from Oklahoma City. And with Philly specifically, it's interesting because the name that I had heard was Al Horford. And at first I was thinking to myself, this makes absolutely zero sense at all for OKC to trade for an older aging player in Al Horford. I mean, it just seems like it goes against what you would think that they should do.

But last month, I also did report that they are willing to take on salary if it means getting more assets in return. And when you think about it, from Philly's perspective, it makes a lot of sense. if you theoretically were to swap Horford for Gallo, you get a guy who's better on the perimeter, he can be a playmaker for you, making plays off the dribble at the end of the clock. Gallo is good in all different type of play types. He can run off screens.

He can do it all for you. For Philly, it makes sense. But for OKC, it's like why at first. But I do think it's interesting because you also have the Stephen Adams trade rumors. If you get Horford and other assets, maybe you're more willing to flip Adams. So that's one thing.

Maybe with Horford's shooting ability and playmaking ability, you're creating an environment for your young guys to develop in that you want to use. Horford also, because he's signed to a $27 million deal in the 2021 season and has an option for $26 million in 2022, by that point, with all of OKC's draft picks and the young players that they'll have by then, you're going to have to have a salary to use. used in a trade should a star player become available by that point. And Horford maybe could that be that type of piece with an expiring deal or the non-guaranteed

deal and the final year of his contract. So if Philly were willing to desperately overpay to get a guy who's a better fit for them, and if you're getting a guy who helps your system now and you have a salary that you could use in a trade down the line, it sort of starts to make sense for both teams. but am I playing too much of a devil's advocate with myself here, Chris, or does that actually make some logical sense for both teams? Here's why it doesn't make sense to me, okay? Because we're already, you're already without MBEED right now, okay?

And you're seeing how valuable Horford becomes in that situation. We also got to the playoffs last year, and there were all manner of reasons Joel Mbid was missing games. I like having the Mbid insurance. That it's like we are still capable of being extremely good if I am, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I, if I'm somehow, uh, if I've still got Horford on this roster. Horford gives me the greatest Mbid insurance possible. The other thing is this. What happens if I do change over this team a little bit in the future?

If I do feel like I have to make a decision between Simmons and MBEed. And maybe I do, maybe I don't. but at that point then, don't you wish you had to Horford? Is Horford a better fit with Ben Simmons? I think it's fair to say yes, right? I think this goes back to that other type of conversation we've had, though. Maybe you want to invest less dollars into that center position.

Let's just say, like, you theoretically had to trade a beat at some point. And I don't think that would happen. But let's say that were to happen. Maybe then instead, if you're building with Ben Simmons and he's playing a lot more five, you'd rather have another center that's in the five to $15 million range rather than max level. The Gallinari acquisition seems a little goofy to me considering you just paid Tobias Harris $100 billion. I know. Look.

So what am I doing? I think Gallo is just a better guy who can create. Well, then you should. I mean, maybe you should have thought of that last year. Oh, yeah, sure. You know what I mean? I mean, look, they did that, though. once they committed to Tobias in the way that they did,

look, I don't know if you could move him. He's the one I'd move. That's my opinion. I don't know if Philly would do this. I've just heard about that that's what could. Look, that's what would work financially, period, right? Like, that's what it would have to be. And it's the type of thing where if Philly were to do that,

it would be quite an almost respectable admission of this was a mistake to make that type of move shortly at one. just months after you signed a guy to make that move. One other note, though, Chris, is with OKC, in 2016, they were close to signing Al Horford. Granted, the times were different then. You had KD. You were trying to keep KD. And Russell Westbrook was there.

You're trying to contend for championships. But Billy Donovan's favorite player from his time coaching at Florida is Al Horford. And so from a coaching perspective, from a system perspective, from a potential future financial perspective. If Philly were to give a ton of else, maybe Zaire Smith and future picks and maybe that's something you do. Okay. Hear me out on this. Hear me out on this, okay? Who do I have to beat in the Easter conference? Who am I thinking I'm playing in the Easter Conference finals? Milwaukee. All right. Do what I rather have Gallinari or Horford for that series? It's not even a question. It's not even a question. I know. I would much rather.

I mean, that's the team I got to beat. If I've got Gallinari, Yonis is scoring 75 points a game. and I may actually be able to stymie him if I still got Horford on my roster or at least give him problems. So to me, you know, you got to keep an eye towards the future. Who do I have to get past to get to the NBA finals? And would I rather have this guy or that guy? And the answer for me is Horford. Do you still have confidence in Horford?

Because he is not, he is not the same guy. No, he is not. And maybe this is just regular season average L, but he does not look like he has the same quickness on the perimeter. And that's where I look at it. I'm like, is he really going to be a guy. Al Horford is still fantastic. And it reminds me so much of listening about Chris Paul.

Chris Paul had lost a step, right? Now he's like one of the best named guards in the NBA. No, that was, you and I debated that before the season, though. And I was on the side that, no, this guy is still good. He's still got it. We talked about that. And without Horford, like, there is an actual. you can look at him on the court and see that he is not moving the way he did even during

last year during the regular season in Boston. He's somebody who the last year or two has had some leg issues, some knee issues, and I wonder if maybe now at 33 years old, that is really slowing him down on the defensive end of the floor. He's not shooting the ball well either. So he's not bringing on offense because you have so many better players, Ben Simmons, Joelle and Bede, Josh Richardson, like on the offensive end of the floor, his playmaking value is diminished as well. So he's not shooting the ball well. His playmaking isn't able to be as valuable because of the other players you have in the

roster. And if his defense is declining, that is a guy you should at least look to move. Whether it's for a Gallinari or somebody else, I think you're going to at least be thinking about it. And that's a shame because the Al Horfer that you're talking about on paper, the Al Horfer that you hope you got, that guy, we haven't seen him yet through 42 games with Philly. And at some point, he's going to show it.

is you get to feel some level of confidence that he can be the Yonah stopper, because that's what it's going to come down to in April or May whenever that series happens. Hmm. All right. So you still would rather have Gallinari than Horford. I think Gallonari is one of the most underrated players in the game. So look, he's somebody, like I said, Gallo can fit anywhere, which is why so many playoff teams are interested in him.

And why, why for that matter, OK, C might keep him. they could decide to keep him as well into the summer either to re-sign him or to sign and train him. And he's somebody that he can play off ball for you. He's a smart cutter. He moves well off ball. He shoots threes off the catch at a high level. He attacks closeouts. He does all those role player things at a high level.

But he's also a guy who can handle the ball and be a pick and roll, pick and roll player for you, creating for himself and making basic simple plays for others. Galauri, the only concern for him for years, and Denver was his durability. And last year with the Clippers, this year with the Thunder, he hasn't been named an All-Star, but he's playing at an All-Star caliber level. And if I'm Philadelphia, I'm looking at

our offense right now, and I'm worried about how stagnant it could become in the playoffs, I think Gallo's a guy that could open things up as a floor spacer and as a shot creator. To me, that's a bit more important right now at this stage than what Horford could only theoretically bring to the

floor. Not to mention, the fact is that you could get rid of Horford long-term salary. It's just a matter of what else are you giving in that trade? How many other assets and draft equity are you giving up for Gallinari who can become an unrestricted free agent this summer? There's risk in making that type of move. But I think for the Philadelphia 76ers, they are a contender. They can win a championship. And they're just a couple tweaks away, in my opinion, from being right at the same level as the bucks are right now. All right. We'll take a quick break when we come back. We do have to talk about another big man that might get traded that we would have never expected would be traded.

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That's ziprecruiter.com slash ringer NBA, R-I-N-B-R-I-N-B-A. ZipRecruiter.com slash ringer NBA. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. All right, Kevin, I'm going to read you two passages from an article that came out in the athletic yesterday by Javon Bua and Sam Amick. Montres Herald had spoken his truth telling the world on January 4th after a 26-point home loss to the Memphis Grizzlies about frustrations that had surfaced. inside the Clippers complicated locker room. Now it was Doc Rivers' turn. The 58-year-old, who was one of just six

current NBA head coaches to have won a title, has been known to take on a head-on approach and discussing disagreements with his players, yada, yada, yada. With his clippers set to host the New York Knicks that afternoon in the second of a home back-to-back set, sources say Rivers lit into his team in the pre-game meeting and directed his ire at Herald multiple times in reference to the comments that he made.

The gist of the expletive-laden message had been sent loud and clear. Keep your frustrations internal. Don't vent to the media and create distractions for this locker room. But the damage was done. And, you know, this is one of those things where it was interesting before this ever even came out. You heard, I was listening to Simmons Pod with Rosillo and House the other day, and they were talking about Montrez-Harrell. And that that is the kind of management that would say, hey, we need some more, like do something bold.

We need size. Like that's the one thing that scares us is our lack of size. Zubot just played off the court last playoffs. And we love Montrez. But Montrez, I mean, is that who we're taking to the, is that who we're going to war with? When we have to face, you know, a lot of these teams that are good like Gobert, like Yokic, like Anthony Davis. They got big guys on their team. So we need some size.

And Montrez is going to be up to getting paid. Oh, he's going to get paid. He's going to get paid big time. Oh, yeah. Is that a guy? Yeah, we have never even considered that Montrez-Herald could be moved somewhere. But you got this story that came out. I just listened to that.

And it's the first time I've even considered that the Clippers would change something, especially given how great Montres has been the last two years. I'd be surprised. You know, if you're the Clippers, you look at that Lou Will Montres-Harrell pick-and-roll pairing. and how successful those guys have been since they found each other, right, on that roster. They are one of the league's best pick and roll do is the clippers are fantastic the last two years with the both of them on the court. And I think if you break that up, you're taking a significant risk and hurting what's working with your roster last year before Kauai and Paul George and still today. I feel like for them you got to write it out and head into the summer.

and if, look, if Harold gets a max offer sheet, you can match that if you want to and go into the tax. You could decide to do that. Or you know what? You can do a sign and trade as well. So I think for the Clippers, it's advantageous for them to keep Harrell and move into the summer and not worry about a trade

unless it's something ridiculous. Like, there's so few players that are untouchable. But it's hard to imagine a move being out there that makes any sense for the Clippers to do now. Yeah. And, well, you think about like, where are you, getting size, like real size, that's out there available, that you think that you're comfortable with. Like you think, all right, if that's your thing, we got this guy's got a really long wing span,

but in the Andy, six, seven, and we're going to have to beat Gobert, we're going to have to beat Yokic, or we're going to have to beat Anthony Davis, and we're going to, like, these are the guys we're going to be going up against. And, you know, maybe you go cheaper, you know what I mean, on that to try to find the size. It was fascinating because the name that I recently, read about, which was Joe Cowley of the Chicago Sun-Times wrote this thing saying Lori Markinen looks like a guy who needs

a change of scenery, but the Bulls would be too paranoid to give up on talent like that. Sources have indicated that the Los Angeles Clippers have interest in both Thaddeus Young and Chris Dunn. They could go after Young in a trade and wait for Dunn, who's a restricted free agent this summer.

Why would they have interest? Chris Dunn. I don't know. Daddy's a interesting one though. Well, Thad Young wants out that I've heard. And for Chicago, of course, he's a guy that does make sense to move him. And for the Clippers, you know, sure, Thad Young. He can be somebody that can help your team now as another versatile wing defender. Can defend some bigger players, can defend some guys his size as well.

I've never been the biggest Thad Young fan. I just think he's an above average guy. But for the Clippers makes some level of sense. I love having Thad Young in a playoff series. though. Thad Young is a guy that will raise his game. I want that. He's a foxhole guy to me. I've

always been a fan. Boy, they would be Wing City, wouldn't they? We used to have Lob City. They'd just be Wing City. If you throw out there, Paul George, Kauai Leonard, and Thad Young. What do you give it up for Thad Young? Are you giving up Harkless here

for salary matching purposes? How could you be more Harkless? Harkless is like the name that keeps coming up everywhere, right? They got Harkless in that first rounder. They're going to get something for it, right? I still think the Clippers should trade for Igwadala. They should just give up the pick.

Oh, interesting. You know what? Well, they- Harkless had a pick for Eagle Dola. Just making it happen. If it meant it was going to keep it away from the Lakers, right? Yeah, but even then, though, are the Lakers really going to be the team that gets Igwadala?

With Memphis, let's say a trade does not happen. Are they going to buy out Igueda? No, no, a trade happening. A trade happening. Well, that's what I've heard. I've heard a trade will have. It will. They have generated enough interests from a handful of teams.

I mentioned Dallas this week in my column that they, they have, they do have interest in Igloala. We would know. Other playoff teams as well. We would know if it wasn't, if it wasn't taking place. Look, everybody's known that Iguodala is going to be traded since, you know, we were in, in the summer, okay? So everybody's known that.

And so you have had all this time. I think it's just a matter of picking the trade you want to make. You have just been fielding the different things. You know what's out there. And there is stuff out there. And so you know what's out there. And then you hope it gets even better than that when it comes nut cutting time. You know?

But he'll get traded. He'll get traded for sure. Well, you know, and for the Mavericks, for example, they have right now their own first round pick, but they also have the Golden State Warriors second round pick, which is 31st. That's the thing. That's a thing you can run around and you can say,

oh, you don't want to give us that thing. Well, fine. Dallas is giving us Courtney Lee in that second round pick. So we'll just do that. I mean,

like now life is leverage, Kev. All you got to have is one decent deal and all of a sudden you can get a good deal. Well, let's say that deal is on the table, right? The 31st pick,

you know, from Dallas. Why wouldn't it be? Well, I know. I agree. And look, that's the thing.

That's what I wrote about this week with the Dallas Mavericks. Right now, they are far ahead of schedule. And the question is, what will they do now to position themselves for the playoffs now? But also like, how do you build around Chris Stavs, Porzingis and Luca Dantrich moving forward? What are the big trades that you can make? Because with KP, as much as I really, really like him as a player, the fact is, is that he still has not yet to be, not yet proven that he can be a durable player, missing the 10 games of the knee injury, adding to the long list of injuries that he's had.

So for Dallas, there's short-term moves that they can make now without sacrificing long-term flexibility, but then to a greater extent, what's the next big move that you make to not only support your KP, Luca, core when they're healthy, but how do you help bolster that team in the inevitable situations when KP's out? It's going to be hard for Dallas to do that, but they have the hardest thing there is to find in a transident player in Lucas. So teams have trade places for their problems any day. I read yesterday that the Detroit Pistons are reportedly asking for a first round pick in any deal centered around Derek Rose. We talked about Rose in our podcast earlier this week. I think they get a first rounder, don't you?

From who? Who should give it up? Well, this is a crappy draft. So, I mean, I told you, I think that draft picks are going to be more thrown around than they have been in the past. And I think that first round draft picks have a lower value than they had in the past. and I think you agree with that just given the strength of this draft, right? And so if I sit there and I say,

hey, I'm a contender, this could really help me out and this could take me over the hump or this is the kind of guy that I can bring off my bench that can run my second team offense and just torch people. Rose has been good two years running.

And he's still, I know that we, he's still not old. He's still not old. So, and he's on a great contract. I'd give up a first rounder. Absolutely. If I'm a good team and I think, hey, I can add this guy, I would do it. I would absolutely.

I'm not talking late. I'm not talking I'm the lottery pick. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, the good teams. I'm talking the teams that are going to be 20 through 30. Yeah. I would much rather have Derek Rose than my 23rd pick or 28th pick. Well, it's like we talked about last week with the Lakers or Sixers having reported

an interest in Derek Rose, a team like that. Why would I not? If I'm the Sixers, why would I not? I mean, I would, I would absolutely, my pick's going to be like 26. I'm probably going to be one of the last four teams standing, you know? So that's what I mean, I would certainly give it up. Well, in that, you touched on it there. If you feel like you have a chance for a title, this is a, this is a year to go all in.

Oh, yeah, I'm not giving it up if I'm like, you know, whatever. from Atlanta or something. Of course. Yeah, but like, but the window is open here. Bucks and Lakers are favorites and their respective conferences, but they're not unbeatable. They're just not. And if you're able to land

a top tier player, maybe you are willing to overpay a little bit for that shot to win a title. Masayu Jerry said this week that they're going to go for it. You know, you have the rumors earlier in the season about teams going for Drew Holiday. It's unclear if there is any

potential for a holiday move now with Zion back. But if you're Miami or Denver, why wouldn't she be going really, really hard for a guy like that? There's a window here. There's an opportunity. So for these teams, it does make sense to maybe overpace slightly for that shot, for that opportunity to get a finals appearance. And who knows what can happen?

You could win the whole damn thing. Well, and there's some super fascinating teams that have been very active, trade participants over the years. You know, you see what's going on in Portland. They're going to want to make the playoffs, right? And they've been active before. Houston has been really struggling. And you know, Daryl's playing for one thing.

And that's the title. And he's looking at his roster and going, we're not winning the title with this. So what can I do? And so I think that while it feels like it's not going to be active, I don't think we're going to have like, you know, 30% of the league or whatever traded like we did last year. But I think there's going to be some significant trades.

And certainly given the situation that you were talking about where teams have a shot at it, that's why. Because you look at it and go, look, man, there's one team that we really need that we're going to really have to get past or that we're super worried about in the Eastern Conference, right? That has not had immense playoff success yet. right? So you look at them and you might not should feel they're beatable, but you can think, hey, we could beat them in a series possibly. Raptors did. You know what I mean? We could too.

In the West, it's a little more dicey because you might look at it and say, look, like, it doesn't matter what I do to my team. I'm not going to beat the Lakers and the Clippers. But if you're Daryl, you say, I got to be able to compete with them. Like, that's who I'm going to be up against. And so, I don't know. I don't know. Same with Denver, right? Does Denver feel, like they're, they feel good about going into a series against either of those two teams? I think you got to feel at least a little good. Really?

When I went to seven games against the spurs and then I got my ass kicked by the trailblazers? I doubt. I don't think so. I mean, I'm not saying you feel great, but, but I think you're going to have some level of confidence when you have an all NBA, big point guard in Yokic when you have Michael Porter Jr.

granted right now he's out with a back injury and that is terrifying. You have these X-FACs. who are solid overall players. I think you're going to feel some level of confidence. I don't think you'd win it, but that's what I mean. Like, there's still a move away.

And these are the type of teams that should go hard. Earlier in the podcast, we did not get to, I think I brought it up and then we never talked about it. It was the Zion thing, which was kind of a, I don't know. I think you started talking about your beard.

It was kind of a, it was a dud for three quarters. And then there was like this explosion in the fourth quarter. And then he was, you know, put back on the bench because we've got to use the long view and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I mean, for in terms of capturing everybody's imagination in a debut, for him to come out and knock down the four threes and have this, you know, 17 points in less than five minutes spurt was just absolutely positively. Like, that's a storybook type thing. And it obviously didn't end with them winning.

and him staying on the court and getting them all the way home. But in terms of signs of things to come, how many people are going to be wanting to tune in nightly to see this? Holy mackerel. That was a glimpse at things to come from Zion. So exciting. It was fascinating. And like he might not hit,

he might not hit four three-pointers over his next 10 games. But it's okay. What we didn't see in that game was the ferocious drives to the rim in the loud, ferocious dunks. We did see glimpses of everything else that he can be with the transition passes with the putback with the spot-up threes. But we still haven't even seen the full dose of what Zion

could be to the Pelicans. And look, if Zion is playing 30 minutes in that game, New Orleans wins that game. I think you're right. And it was interesting to read that his debut, you know, it peaked at like almost 2.4. million people, which is for a comparable game, like a non-Christmas game, it was up 88%

versus a last year's comparable game. And it is their highest rated NBA game this season. Wow. I mean, so it ain't, it's not, it's not like, you know, me and you and the rest of the basketball centric heads are watching this. The people are going out of their way. Wow. You know, when you have a number that big that is tuning into.

watch the guy. And they will keep tuning in to watch the guy. He may be the, he may be put the whole NBA ratings problem to rest by his lonesome. That's that's again like we, we hit this. I know people, we got a couple tweets to sing about Pelicans again.

But like Zion's back. The number one pick is back and he's this player who for years at the high school level, then at Duke, and now in the NBA just brings joy to the court. People are fascinated with his game. I saw those in any conjunction

with that and like, oh, we talk about the Pelicans. Look, they have been a mega fascinating team for this year. We left them for dead and then they rose from the dead and now they're getting this guy back and you just wrote an article talking about Zion and the fact that he gets

searched still. Without playing, he gets searched more than Hardin and who was the other one? Luca. Luca. Just as much. It's like pretty much equal. Which is insane. He hasn't even played.

YouTube and Google, he gets searched just as much. And obviously, the numbers from his debut that you just mentioned show the potential with him being a drop for whatever reason. Oh, look, and you know the way this stuff works, right? It's not like we, you know, you put Pelicans in the title. You put Zion in the title of anything and people are listening to reading. That's just the way it is. He's that big of a star.

Same way. Your podcast are always going to do better when you put. put LeBron in the title or whatever, right? Or Premier teams, premier players. And his return was, I mean, geez, the least. And that's what's so... tantalizing to think what's ahead. And that's not even his game.

That's not even how he plays. Well, I know. And it was that exciting. And that's what's so interesting about Zion now, like you think about the post-Lebron world. We've hit this before. But Luca and Janus just haven't resonated in the way that Zion has

without even doing anything yet at the NBA. And Yanos, of course, is a top selling jersey. Luca does too. But Zion playing only one game so far as of recording this podcast, already has a top 10 selling jersey. And if he finishes this season, the way in which it started in the preseason,

the way in which it was in the fourth quarter of game one, that guy next year will have a top two, top three, at least top five selling jersey. and he will be a top ratings draw for the foreseeable future. And I hope for the league, I hope for us as fans and media. I hope he's able to just stay healthy. Oh, no, it's highlights. It's the highlight culture.

And he is a perfect example of, as is, by the way, Trey Young, who led in fan voting for the Eastern Conference. Trey Young led in fan voting, not because there's a bunch of people sitting around watching Hawks games every night. For guards, he like. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, honest, let overall. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But, I mean, people aren't sitting around watching Hawks games every night, I promise you. But they are sitting around seeing on social media, him pulling from a logo and him going behind his back and through his legs and, you know. Trey's fun, man. He is. He's fun. And he's a highlight machine. If you're a highlight machine, look, I just told you, look at all those fan votes that Zach Levine got. Zach Levine sucks.

Bonapide loser Who Keep going He is He is Do you hear that What's his name said On the

On the Simmons pod I almost ran off the road He said he You know Like he looked up the clutch stats This guy had the highest Usage in the league And the worst net rating

Well to him I mean How that work? I mean net rating is a team stat No it's a team set that usage is not a team set no it's not but with levin i just look at it like he doesn't play defense and he doesn't pass the ball oh just those two things he just doesn't play defense or pass oh great i know i know it sounds like the kind of guy that's what i mean i mean i i had a hit on nba desktop

and in my article uh a couple weeks back or i blasted zach levin i'll try to pull that open but i mean i'm not a zach levin fan at all highlights are wrong awesome though. I'll give him that. Yeah, they are. Look, again, another fun offensive player, but he doesn't pass, doesn't play team ball, he doesn't defend. Good thing they traded Jimmy Butler. It was the right move.

It was the right move. It was never the right move. It was never the right move. No, no, no, no. We're like five years removed and they saw. Trading Butler was the right move. No. But, but in the wait, in that draft, I gave the trade an F plus

because they also gave up the 16th pick in the first round, which still made no sense. And I still thought the Lowry Market and pick was a mistake. So it was the right move to trade Butler. It's just what they've done since, what they decided to do and what they've done since then has not been smart. I don't agree that it was the right move. I'd rather add Jimmy Butler for these last couple of years.

They don't walks. He ain't walking. They should have, they should have drafted Frank Milakina. Frank Nilakina. Where's he getting traded? Did you see that, did you see that guy sent me the other day? the oh god what was it i'm sure you had to have gotten sent the same thing as i do the frank neil o'ekeena thing the night of zion's deal no i don't see that what nobody sent you anything oh i guess they i guess they just

did i guess they just send it to me because they know that i'm not as popular as you chris no that's not true people just want me to uh uh jump you about stuff right it was something uh zion got frank nil akina's career high um in 130 seconds i'm sick to my second and thirty seconds i'm sick to my stomach. My favorite one was the job. He got Frank Nilakina's high in 130 seconds. My favorite one was the Josh Eberley tweet about how Zion surpass Ben Ben Simmons and career three pointers in 86 seconds.

Oh, of course the one. That's the one you like them. Well, I mean, it was funny. You're not going to acknowledge that the guy scored more points of, you got Nilakina's career high in 130 seconds? It's impossible. How is it possible? He's got to play two minutes and ten seconds

and got his career. What does Frank Nilakina have to do with Zion? Stay away from Frankie Smokes. Leave Frankie Smokes alone. We're ending on that. The show is over. I'm sick of this crap. Off the rails.

Thank you to Bobby Wagner for producing as always. Kevin, have a good weekend. I'll talk to you on Tuesday. Thanks everybody for listening to another episode of The Mismatch. If you dig what you're hearing. Go give this rating interview on iTunes, five stars, five stars. It really helps. And we will talk to you next week.