The Ringer NBA Show - Amin Elhassan on the NBA Finals, Boston’s Collapse, and Heat Culture | Real Ones

Episode Date: June 1, 2023

Logan and Raja are joined by Meadowlark Media analyst and veteran NBA insider Amin Elhassan to discuss the upcoming NBA Finals matchup between the Denver Nuggets and the Miami Heat, the collapse of the Boston Celtics, and the importance of role players in the playoffs (3:38). Along the way, they talk about whether or not the Heat can contain Nikola Jokic and about Jimmy Butler’s ability to make in-game adjustments (26:16). Finally, the guys close with their Real Ones of the Week (64:51). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Guest: Amin Elhassan Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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What's popping? Logan Murdoch here, Roger Bell there. Roger, we have Afford of the show at the motherfucking building live from Denver in the finals.

Amino Hassan from Metal Arc Media. I mean, how you doing? What's going on, bud? Good to see you. Good to see you guys too. It's that time of year again.

I'm in overcast, Denver. By the way, this is why I always complain of the league. Like, I get it. We can't pick where we go for the finals, right?

We can hope. Man, get the All-Star games right then. man. Like, don't send us to goddamn Salt Lake City and Cleveland. And we gotta come to Denver and Cleveland for finals.

Then send us nice places for the All-Star break. How about that? Bro, don't get me started on the All-Star. Bro, you know, fucking. We're here. Listen, there's going to be no Salt Lake Slander on. I'm headed out to Salt Lake in a week.

You won't do it. There will be no Salt Lake Slender on this. You won't do it. But in terms of the, the hotel situation in Salt Lake City, during the finals, I mean,

during the All-Star game. It was, it was a wild experience, bro. There's no way in hell that I should be staying in the same hotel as Julia's serving.

It was, it was insane. So this is specifically aimed at the hotel situation, just for clarity. This was not an overall so late,

this was a hotel, I mean, I didn't want to get that. There's a lot. There's a lot of things. The hotel is one of them. Yeah, hotel is one of them.

I was in a Sheridan that was built in like 1960 and updated like 1972. And to give you, though, full clarity, I had basketball without borders was staying in my hotel. So that's how I knew I was a deep shit. Like, if I thought Dr. Jay, I'd know. They're going to take care of him. Basketball without borders. Oh, shit, man. That hotel has also a little mall kind of attached to it, I believe.

Like I, that's where I stayed in, man, was at 04 training camp with the jazz. I stayed in that hotel right downtown there. I was at the city creek joint. And I'm tall. Like, I'm like 6-2, 63, right? And the fucking, the roof was like at my head when I was taking a shower. Bro, like, it was like, that's where, that was what it was. That's where we were.

You know, it wasn't great. It was not a great experience. Come on. At NBA. Again, again, again, all right? I will be in Salt Lake with my son next week. Salt Lake is a fantastic town. Let's pivot to Denver, damn it.

We're not going to do this. We're not going to start. The Jazz and Salt Lake have nothing to do with this pod. That's fine. This is true. He's just talking to all this shit, knowing that he's only staying in Park City, and he's just, he knows he's going to have a range. But anyway, one thing that I do like about Salt Lake City is the fact that the airport is close to the general city,

which cannot be said about Denver where the NBA finals is. So I guess that's my pivot. Pro shit. I forgot about that. I forgot about it. I literally, I landed, got in an Uber.

Like, you know, you had the little ways on the screen. It looked like a clear purple line. And no reds. And I'm like, cool, we should be there soon.

I looked at the ETA, like 52 minutes. I'm like, what? 52. And we didn't stop. We didn't stop once for traffic. It was straight shot.

And it was. cornfields or I don't even know what the hell I was looking at outside but I forgot it's been a long time it's been like 13 14 years since I've been in Denver so I completely forgot about this part and all I could think of was the Miami heat

flew after game seven and you know after a conference finals cinch up you don't just get on a plane and leave like a regular road trip there's a bunch of shit that you have to do and then they got on buses and then they went to the airport and then they flew three hours or whatever and landed,

and then they had to drive another hour to get to their hotel, that shit ain't right, man. People talk about that, that, the altitude, and it is a thing. But, you know, to your point,

a lot of teams getting into Denver, especially when you're on those back-to-backs, like that extra hour is, it could be gold if you were in your bed. It's krypton night if you're on that damn bus, bro. It is a brutal bus ride on the, on the,

on the, sixth and eighth night. and it's a back-to-back, and you're about to go to the crib after that game, it's brutal. Well, here's the worst part. If you're coming from Pacific time zone, you lose an hour.

Lose an hour. Yeah. You lose an hour, so it's like, it's not just that we got in late. It's also, oh, this extra hour here, boom, that's gone. And then the hour on the ride. No, it's a, like you said, the altitude,

I don't know, I kind of think the altitude thing is kind of overrated. I feel like people get used to it pretty quickly. I myself, I don't know, man. I've played pickup ball here. I've got people say, Oh, don't go drinking like the altitude. I'm like, man, I shut down bars left and right, man.

This ain't nothing. But like I'm always that confused by people with the altitude. Get out of here. But like I see why they play it up. Like why they have the thing on the ground, you know, like at the frito line. Altitude propaganda in Denver is insane. It's insane. It's but like it's your way of saying I live in the toughest neighborhood.

Don't come around here without like, without having, you know, a, uh, a, uh, a, uh, a, uh, a, uh, like a fly zone or whatever, you know, pass or whatever. I don't know, man. I feel like that's just something people say to trump up like the vibe. And then, but then other people say like, yo, I needed an oxygen tank. I'm like, I don't know. Look, the altitude only really, it's a real thing in respect to the way I remember it, the first five minutes of play or vigorous activity, right?

So for the first five minutes, your chest is going to be burning. And you can acclimate to it like for a week. And that's still going to be the case. Like I've been out there for some stretches. But only the first five minutes. Once you blow through that first win, you're typically cruising. And it doesn't become an issue as you move forward. But the first five minutes, those lungs feel like they're on fire usually.

What about the end of the game? Nah. Like, nothing one. Like, nope. Right. Nah, real talk. My memory of it, you know, having played in the NBA and spent some time out there with Olympic festivals and different things where you're there for a while is if you're not living in that climate,

year round. It's like a lot of places that are that are dry heat and you're not used to cold gyms. Like your lungs are going to burn for a minute. And then once you blow through that, I don't remember having any effects deep into the game. What's the, so mean, you are in Denver right now, right? And we're wherever we're at. What is the general vibe of how this series is going to go in the days leading up? Are we in a place where, because we, I remember last week, we're talking, We're thinking, man, whoever Denver plays, they're probably going to beat them, right? Like, that's how good Yokic was. And that's how good that team looked.

Now, I think we're having a little bit of reason to bias with, you know, how great Miami has been over the last, you know, in this series. But like, or at least winning that game, right? We're having this thing. I feel like it's the opposite. I feel like it's the opposite. When Miami looked like they were going to sweep two, I think people were saying, shit, this team, maybe this team, we just had them wrong. because they beat Boston and they beat Milwaukee and these are the two best records in the league

and two teams that people thought would be in the finals, they beat them pretty handily. So I thought the vibe then was like, maybe. But Miami blowing the 3-0 lead, like I think it made people say, oh, wait, hold on. Beyond like Denver has rest and all that, it's just kind of feeling,

well, maybe Miami was kind of fake hype or whatever and that, oh, Denver is clearly going to win this pretty easy. regardless of who had won game seven. I think that's the vibe right now. But you know how the finals are. Someone loses a game, and then instantly it's like, whatever we thought,

no, throw that out. Now we all believe that whoever won game one is going to win it all. And that's the fun of it for me, for the finals and playoffs in general, is 99% of the public and the media are so easily moved by one game. And the reality is like,

this is just, the beginning because whatever plan we had going into this, Roger, you know this. It's like, that's probably not going to be the plan for game two, win or lose. We're like, we're going to come back and try to anticipate what everyone else is doing and things are going to switch up and lineups are going to switch. And it takes on a life of its own. Well, even within the locker room, like, that's a really, the playoffs are unlike any other sport that I've been, the NBA playoffs. You know, I imagine probably the NHL is like this with seven games too, but even players in the locker room, the complexion of that series from where you sit, depending on whether you win a

game or lose a game, like, can vary so drastically that it becomes, it becomes really, you know, a chore. Like, you have to condition yourself to be like, yo, dude, do not, you cannot get too high with the highs or too low with the lows here. Nothing's really changed in terms of, in terms of what the game plan is, and that's winning four. So we can't, you know, we lost one or two, we gave one away or we stole one. Like, you can't ride that in motion that, that, I mean, talking about with the public, right? And it's hard not to do times, but you have to condition yourself.

That's why sometimes in the playoffs, you know, you see a team and they can be talented and playing as well as anybody. And that's one of the factors in maybe not being ready, right? Like, not mature enough. Like, they don't know how to handle,

you know, that success. You know, the success or the failure of it, you know? And that really is a skill that's developed by those veteran teams that win championship. Are you talking about the Boston Celtics? Because, I mean, we could talk about them.

Is that what you were saying? Are you subbing right now? Because we haven't talked. We can go out of the Celtics if you want to go out to Celtics. No, not specifically, bro. It wasn't necessarily meant like that. But, I mean, they would, you know, you saw them through the course of the playoffs struggle with both of those things, right?

Even in the course of games, struggle with early success in games, fall asleep at the wheel. I mean, I was just so surprised just how mentally weak the Celtics were. They were so mentally weak, especially, down the stretch of this Miami series. I know they won the two games, but to go out in the way that they did in game seven, does it say more about heat culture? Or does it say more about how the Celtics were

just in terms of how their psyche was during this postseason? I mean, I think it's a little bit of both, right? Like, I think Miami just tough sons of bitches that even they could lose three in a row and still come out and have that belief that they're going to win. And it's not, maybe not everybody on the team,

but enough guys, you when you got like when you got guys like Caleb Martin and Gabe Vincent like just dirtworking guys that you know I don't think the average fan thinks of as like because most people think oh in the big game situation on the road the stars are the ones who are going to show up and the role players are a little nervous so I'm playing on the road whatever but oftentimes it's the opposite it's like the role guys are the guys that are like the nuts of the situation and the stars draw, like, energy off of that, like, oh, okay, whatever. So, Miami for sure has that.

But Boston, man, like, I don't think they ever got over what happened to them last year. I really don't. I really think that shit sat with them. And so when things go wrong, they go wrong very quickly for Boston. And we've seen that in leads that they've blown. we've seen that and them getting down and out in games and just like it's gone there is a level I think of like up here we go again that happens because it's I mean like this core has been around forever they've been like eight conference finals or whatever so one would think at this point

it's not an experience thing for them it's like you got the yips man you get a little you get clenched up a little bit when when that when those moments hit you talked about gave Vincent, Caleb. See, they don't give a fuck. They don't, they don't give a fuck,

right? There's no, there's no real pressure associated with that. Like, I ain't supposed to be here anyway. I can speak to that. Like,

that's how I play, like, people ask how you go in a game and I didn't give a fuck. I didn't care. Like, I ain't supposed to be here. So I can play with a freedom

that, you know, Jason Tatum or Jalen Brown let's use by, they might not have that freedom. Pressures mountain on them. They've had these failures in the past. There's a level of care

and of a legacy associated to what they're doing that I just don't have to deal with. You play to a house money, like, because if we lose, we're not talking about, unless you do something ridiculously bad, right? Like, but otherwise, no one's saying, unless you, close like that. One the series. Who won the series? It doesn't matter.

Who did that? What the fuck? What that's it? Unless you lose your mind, unless you lose your fucking mind. Right. But like, in general, we go out that we lose. No one's like, man, Roger. What the fuck, man?

Like, they're not doing that. Like, the stars, the victor goes to spoils. When we win, they get all the credit, right? And maybe more credit than they should have gotten. And when we lose, they get all the blame it. Maybe more blame than they should have got. But that's the deal. That's why they get paid the big bucks, et cetera.

The other thing is also, and I think people really forget about this part. Because guys play roles in the NBA, there's often a belief of, like, that's all they can do. Right. So when they look at Gabe Vincent and Caleb Martin, there are people who thought, literally, that's all these guys can do. and hit a couple open shots. And meanwhile, these guys have, everyone's got a scrapbook, right? Everyone's got a resume. Everybody was something at somewhere at one point.

Tony Parker tells the story of coming over to the Spurs and Bruce Bowen is on his team. And he's like, the Bruce Bowen? Because Bruce played in France. And when Bruce played in France, he was bawling. And Tony was a kid. And he's like, oh, my God, this dude. And he comes to San Antonio.

He was like, this dude just stands in the corner and catches and shoots. And that's it. That's all he does on office. events, man, this guy was giving people bucket left and right. And the reality is, I'm not saying that Bruce Bowen had the talent to do that on an NBA level, but like given the opportunity, guys will revert back to a life that they lived in the past. Like, ain't nobody was living a role player life their entire life, you know? So I, you know, that, I think that's some of the thing that, like, catches people off guard sometimes. Yeah, I say that all, I say that all the time,

Logan knows. Your, your 13th guy on an NBA roster that's, to come in and give up three fouls and looks like he's shaky with the ball and you think he's a bum, given the opportunity to hop into a pickup game and no pressure and no expectations from a role, even in an NBA pickup game will give you buckets. You understand what I'm saying? So the ability in a lot of cases are there. And I talk about as it, you know, my game was streamlined for playing in Phoenix. Like when I went to Phoenix, I was right on the cusp of like what,

kind of NBA player will he be? Had never really been asked to do anything, was trying to find my C-legs offensively. Utah, because of this void of offensive like weapons, allowed me to handle the ball, post up a little bit, play pick and roll. I wasn't really good in any of them, but I was able to score out of all positions on the floor because they were just empowering me to do that. And then in Phoenix, it's like, yo, we need you to fucking sprint to the corner. Yeah. And to play on a good team and to earn a nice check, that's what you do. do. That's what you, that's what you, that's my job now. And that's what you're saying. Like, I'm doing a job. Like, hooping is in the purest form for fun. Like, I do a little bit of everything.

Yes, I can rock out with the ball in my hands if I need to. I did it my whole life. But now this is my job. So I, until you ask me to do something else, that's why I'm going to hold you down. It's such a, there's such a, like, a thin line between being in the league, even in a rotation role and then not being in the league. Like, there's a lot of guys who are a good players, but they haven't figured out. I always like to think of it as there's one question. It's the most important thing for every player to be able to answer truthfully and accurately.

Who am I? Because the guys who can't answer that question, they're lost. They might be talented, but they don't find a place. And the guys who know that answer that question typically are the ones that last 10, 15 years, whatever. I saw that my whole career. It's funny that you say that because there were so many dudes in camps. definitely better than me.

And you're talking about like one-on-one skill level, size, speed, athleticism. But I used to use the term, like when I was, like I talked to my dad who was like my confidant with that shit, he'd be like, yo, what's going on? I'd be like that, he's better than me. I'm telling you. Like, I'm not an idiot.

I do this for a living like that. He's better than me. But he might just be too good for his own good because he doesn't understand that that's not what they're looking for, bro. That's not what they're going to be needing you to do. And he won't accept a lot of, A lot of times, like, you know, you could fit in,

just accepting a little less and accepting that role. Remember when we had a Juan Gisano Anderson on the pod? And he was talking about his first preseason with the Warriors. And he was passing the ball. He was setting screens and stuff. He was getting boards. And all his partners was telling him, hey, bro, why you ain't shooting a fucking ball?

Yeah. And he's like, you idiot? I'm passing to Steph Curry and I'm setting the screen. That's how I'm going to make the team, right? And he were talking about just how diluted that is, like that certain people have. They have that like, because the only metric that everybody sees is scoring,

especially from a role player, right? That's the only metric that people see as success. With all that being said, though, who has the edge right now between these two teams from a bench standpoint? I'll start with you, Roger. Who you got? Who do you think? Who has the edge going into this series?

I mean, I would, I think Denver has the edge. I think over the course of 82. See, you're going to have to score the ball with Denver. Now, the heat put you in a tough spot. Like people, I've heard people say, you know, that zone can't work against Denver. That zone only can't work if you're making shots. If you can't, if you don't make shots, that zone works.

And that's going to be remained, that's going to remain to be seen. If Denver can step up and consistently make shots, you know, from the perimeter, they've done it through the course of the season. I think they tend to have the advantage. But I'm never going to bet. And I said this two pods ago. and it's, I'm not betting against the team like Miami, full of dudes that I just told you, don't give a fuck,

you know, that aren't afraid to schematically flip it on you in the middle of a game and have someone who really understands what he's looking at so he can do that on the fly. And just generally is built from the ground up with solid people. So they're not looking, I didn't see any single person in the Miami series

at any given time look shook in the Miami Boston series. They didn't look shook. Now, they might not have played great. You know, the law average just catches up. You can't shoot, you know, seven for nine threes every fucking night. They're going to be off nights. But I can look in people's eyes, no, straight up.

Like, I can watch a TV and say, no, he don't want to play in that. And they don't have those type of dudes. So while I'm telling you, Denver, I think advantage in terms of overall production, advantage in terms of best player on the floor, advantage in terms of, you know, accumulated rest because of the circumstances. is I'm going to sit here and tell you on the other hand, if Miami gets a hold of them, if Miami gets a hold of them,

like Miami could be a problem. So two questions. Question one, is Tyler Hero playing or not? Because that changes, you're asking about depth? That changes everything. Because now someone who's been starting and killing

moves to the bench. Or if they say, hey, we're keeping continuity. Gabe's playing great. Now you got Tyler coming off the bench. against second units, right? That's one.

Second of all, I love Bruce Brown. I think Jeff Green is smart and savvy and knows where to be in the right place. Christian Brown is solid. He's young, though. Name someone off their bench after that. That's three guys.

One of them are a rookie. One of them is 100 years old. And the third guy is pretty good. Bruce Brown is good enough to be a starter in this league. Like, Miami's good. got a bunch of dudes, guys that have played in completely different roles, been asked to do different things. Them moving Kyle Lowry to the bench was something I thought changed their season because it made

Kyle Lowry better. He was terrible as a starter for them. But coming off the bench, not only was it easier for him, but also he made their bench better. He makes that second unit move in a way that they were struggling to get offense out of earlier in the season. So if we're talking about depth, I think Miami's got him on depth. If we're talking about why Denver is a favorite to win the series, it's very plain and simple.

It's Nicoliochich. It's not Jamal Murray, no offense to him. It's not Aaron Gordon. It's not Michael Porter Jr. Because all those guys are the kinds of guys that Miami has faced in these playoffs and figured out, right? Jamal Murray, as great as he is, he's not better in Jason Tatum, right? Michael Porter Jr. is not better than Jalen Brown or he's not better than Yonnell and definitely not better in Janus or Jalen Brunson or any of those guys, right? Like, they've seen these kind of characters.

You talk about a seven-foot dude that leads the break and it's throwing no-look passes and shooting threes, but then take your ass down to the block and just shoot over you because you don't have either the size or the length to bother them. They haven't encountered that. Like, the closest thing was Janus, but Janus doesn't bring the perimeter scoring part that keeps you off balance. So, and not the passing either that allows, that stops you from trying to swarm this dude. So when I look at the series, we say, who's got the edge in coaching?

I would say respectfully, sorry, Coach Malone, but I would go to the Spoe. Who's got the deeper bench? I think Miami's got the deeper bench. Who's got like the intangible, the greediness, the been there before, right? Like, Miami's got that. Miami's got all that. But then it's like, who's going to win the series? Probably Denver because Nikolokic is better than all of that stuff combined.

Yeah. I mean, look, I mean, I'm going to, the heat bench, I will give you this fractionally, like, fractionally. But, I mean, like, I love Kevin Love. I mean, come on, bro. Like, come on, bro, we're the, I will give it to you. I'm going to concede it. I'm going to concede it. He's on a bench.

And he's been big in the playoffs at moments. At moments, exactly. At moments. At moments, yes. Like that, and that's all they need to. It fucking hurts. I don't usually do this, but I'm giving it to you. I fucking hurts because you're right, but it's fucking fractional, and it's hard for me.

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I mean, do they have a chance to impose their will on Denver? Because Denver's a tough-minded team, man. Like Mike Malone ain't no punk. And it goes around. And it definitely like trickles down to his team, right? Like that's a hard-nosed team. And they got dogs. And they got dogs on their team.

So when when Miami starts to bring the culture into Denver, is it going to work the way it's been working throughout the Eastern Conference? Because I feel like Denver's going to punch back because they have that in them. They have that dog in them. So then when Denver punches back, then what? So I think with Miami, typically we think about Miami, throughout the history of their organization since Pat Riley been there.

A lot of times we talk about imposing their well physically, beating you up and just being that blue-collar bullshit that Pat Riley brought with him from New York. This team is, I mean, like, it's like, you know, like a lot of stuff isn't basketball. It's just fighting, right?

But like this incarnation, they don't do it like that. They just make the game ugly. And they, you know, spoiled stuff about getting it from the mud. And he's talking about pulling it from the mud. And it's about slowing the game down. It's about junking it up with zones.

It's about these unorthodox lineups. And for them, I remember there was a game. I think they beat the Knicks, one of those games, like 98, 95 or something like that. And Spoke came in to the press conference smiling because it's like, that's how we like to win. We don't like them 120 to 108 games. We like these ugly-ass games where no one can make a shot. Like, game six, had they won that game, that would have been like the best case scenario for them, not just logistically because you don't have to fly to Boston and do all that.

But just the idea of like, wow, that's our kind of win, where we played like shit all game long. But through sheer will and making this game ugly, we can pull out the win. The question it, so can they do that to Denver? I think absolutely. They can make it not fun. Jamal Murray, if you watch him play, he's very much a fun guy. Like, he likes it flowing and moving and in a rhythm. Michael Porter Jr.

Vives, right? Michael Porter Jr., this is not criticism. It's just that's the way they like to play, right? Miami is going to, that's their game plan, is to disrupt that, to make everything a slog, to make everything just, you got to work for it. And even you're scoring your points, but they're not pretty points, they're not rhythm points, they're not vibe points. the one deal breaker and all, this is Nikoliyokic.

Can you shake him out of that? I'm not sure they can. They don't have the depth at center. I mean, after Bam, it's like, Kevin Love. Oh, Zeller. Yeah. Cody's all, man, the Zeller Minutes, they call him. It's at a point where it's like, I'm not even sure.

Like, Bam, who's one of the great defensive players we have in the league, I'm not even sure he can junk it up, even if I gave him unlimited foul. Like I give him 10 foul instead of six. I'm not sure he could throw him off because it's just the guy's that good. The problem, the problem with that for the heat is, is it, you can, you can, to use your term, slog stuff up and junk it up and muck it up, as much as you want when you're not forced to be in any sort of help situations. Like when you don't, when you don't have to pull a secondary defender into a help situation and then the ball starts moving. and they don't have anyone that's going to play him one-on-one over the course of time successfully.

You might have some minutes. You might have a game where you do that successfully, like with Bam. But that's a tall order to ask him over the course of a series to handle that Joker, no pun intended by himself. So now, as maybe the most brilliant pastor in the league, with a help defender in a rotation, it just takes away your ability to effectively clog every, everybody else up and make Jamal play, you know, in, in that box of shit that you want him to

play. And now he's playing in the, in the tuxedo again. And that's going to be, you know, that's going to be the problem though, right? Like, that's, that's the, that's what, what, what, what, Joker does to you on the court. It's going to be really important, I think, just to get to, if you asked if the heat can get them into a game like that. The heat, the heat have to get them into a game like that. And in my estimation, need to win one of the first two. So let me ask you this, in your belief, are you going into the series? You know what we're dealing with or whatever. Do you say, look, that dude's great.

We're not going to stop his greatness. We cannot impact his greatness. Let him be great. But I'll be damned if anyone else. So we're going single coverage. Let him do whatever. Everybody else suffocates. I talk about that all the time.

Absolutely. Like, I mean, I'll take you back to the Spurs series when we would play Spurs when we were the Sons. and their game plan was if we're going to let Steve or Amari, one of those two in the pick and roll are going to score, but we're not coming over to help. So we're not going to let LB get 15

and Raj isn't going to get 12 and whoever else isn't going to get 15, 16 to supplement that. Sean Marion is effectively nullified like those 20 because we're just going to sit somebody with him and we don't think that that's going to be enough to beat us. So I would come out of the gate and just see what he does. Like, if 40 is in the bag for him and he can't get 12 assists to triple double and everybody else eats and we win, that's going to be a lonely, it's going to be a lonely series for you, band, but we're staying home. Kobe was the same way.

For sure, for sure. Let him score. Let him shoot. We want, like, we wanted him. It was a weird mind game. We wanted him to lose faith in his teammates. Well, that 2006 series where you guys were, it turned when you guys started letting Kobe make shots, right? When he started when, because in the beginning of that 06 series, what was he doing?

He was getting the ball to Kwame Brown. He was getting the ball to like guys, people were hitting shots. He was running triangle. He was running triangle to a T. And then I think right after like after game five, it switched because you guys just started to say, all right, Kobe, just fucking just start, make everything you want. He had 50 in that game six and then the, the Lakers lost in in overtime. Yeah, I remember that.

Logan, do you remember, do you remember, but do you remember what the conversation was? at that time was the conversation was nobody, because here's the thing, we didn't have a reputation as a defensive team, so nobody realized that this was a deliberate thing that we did. Instead, they all said, well, early in the series, Kobe was passing, and they were winning. But now he's a ball hog, and he wants to shoot,

and that's why they're losing. And so he goes into game seven, and remember, that's the infamous he went on strike game. Right? He goes, all don't want me to shoot, okay? and we blew them the fuck out. But it was all based on the same thing. It's like Kobe Bryant is at his most advantageous for us

when he does not have belief or faith. So you're saying the best offender on the sons was the media? But we've talked about this before, though. Here's the deal with a cat like Kobe. And I imagine this could be the same with Joker. Like there were times within a game. Like obviously goading him into doing that was a huge part of the strategy, right?

Like, look, man, let's turn this into a one-on-one. Let's just, let's see if he'll take the bait of like, he's got to score 50 because he don't think nobody can stop him, right? Like that, you know what I'm saying? Like, you're playing into, you know, the grades don't think anybody can stop him. So that's an easy thing at times to get people to bite on. Uh-huh. But selectively within that, there are times and there were times where Mike would be like,

hey, Raj, we're going to send, we're going to send something at him. Do you know what I mean? Just to try to give him a different look every now and again, right? What is something at him? What does that mean? Like a double. Like a double, like a, okay. Like Amari's coming out of here.

Tricks is coming to double them. Or like, what does that mean? Our double would usually be Sean to come help me or it would be me to go help Sean. Like, you know, because it wasn't usually, Amari wasn't interested in that all the time. But the fact was you gave him that. different look occasionally, just enough to keep him honest or off balance, whatever you want to call it, knowing that the staple was going to be, hey, man, if he can score 50 on you, bro, it's going to be a long night, but that's what's best for us.

The interesting thing about that is, you're right. First of all, the great players, you can't give them the same thing over and over again, because then they start, the little computer starts doing like, okay, hold on. So, like, you got to randomize shit, like sending them guys from different spots, right? Like, not only, you know, Dublin, well, I say we're going to double with Sean, but like, sometimes Sean will come from the nail. Sometimes he comes from the other side. Like, so you got to mix up those things. But also, like, I saw Kevin Garnett talk about this where he said, like, even the way he guarded, he would guard him individually.

Forget about help or no help. So one time I'll pick him up full court. Like, and like, we're going to eat up this whole clock. The next time, I'll meet him at half court. The next time, I'll sprint back and go right into the. paint. And so the idea is like getting that routine out of the way because if you have routine, then they can read that and then you're playing into their hands. Yeah, I think especially with someone who's as gifted with the ball as the joker, like not just scoring the ball, but if you're

giving him consistency in terms of looks defensively, he's so dangerous because he'll shred you passing it too. You know, so if you're coming from the same spot or the rotation's going to be real similar. Like, you're basically just giving him a script. You know what I mean? Like, all he's got to do is memorize it at that point. Yep. It's a, it's a decision tree for him.

If this guy is here, that means that guy's open. That's right. Bang, bang, bang. You're going right through our progression. Here we go. You know, it's interesting because we're talking about Yokin's and how to guard him, this singular guy, right? Like, your anecdote to guarding him is guarding everyone else.

But I want to switch it to the other side where you got a cat, like Jimmy Butler, who every person that I've talked to and every person that I've seen, you know, when you watch him play, he is a guy that adjust to what the game tells him to do, right? Like, so it makes it a little harder, right? If he has to score 50, I guess he has to score 50, but he's also really good at facilitating and being great that way like he did in game seven. I mean, how do you guard a guy like Jimmy Butler at this stage where he's not tripping off of like getting 10 or 12 assists if he has? to, but also will let the game dictate where he goes with it.

How do you guard that? So there's a couple of things. One is, I think, and it's way easier said than done, you got to keep him off the free throw line. Like, that's the central shit for him. If he shoots four for 20, if he's shooting 12 for 20, he's trying to go to the free throw line 9, 10, 11 times a game. So the ability to foul without defending is huge because he's such a physical presence.

I would think that Denver would put Aaron Gordon on him at times. I'd rather have him than him have KCP trying to fight. KCP is a great defensive player, but like Jimmy's big, man. And he's going to take him. Yeah, you need size on him. So that's one. Two is unlike Yokic, where if he gets passing, I think you're in trouble, I'm more comfortable

allowing Miami's guys to shoot but selectively, meaning Max Truce, streaky. Duncan Robinson, streaky and also can get in his head, right, when he misses a couple of easy ones. Lowry, Streaky, Kevin, like, there are guys where I'm like, I'll do the same thing where I'm mixing it up,

sometimes a double, sometimes I'm not, but I'm also being selective on who's the man who's helping here, because we don't want Gabe Vincent or Caleb Martin, who guys are shown consistently through these playoffs, we are shot makers. We want the guys that will go through a little slump to have them kind of guessing,

am I getting the ball, am I not getting the ball here? And I'd be more comfortable with help defense in that regard than I would against Yokic because I think Yokic A is a better passer. When I say better passer, I mean, his ability to locate the less than not. obvious target and his ability to deliver the ball because there are guys who see it,

but they're just like, I can't get it there. And then there are guys who just don't see it. He's got both of those things on lock. He's a more dangerous, even though Jimmy's a good pastor as well. I just feel like I'm more comfortable sending help towards him because otherwise all that's going to happen is he's going to beat somebody up and get to the free throw line. And that's the part, again, when we talk about slow. in the game down. That's what they want. They want you to take the ball out after free throws and

walk the ball up. That's interesting because as you were, as you were speaking, I was trying to figure out how I would play him. And I think length, I think length with with Denver and their ability to maybe switch picker. I wouldn't be afraid to put KCP on him early necessarily to see what he did with him. But I think you're right in terms of length overall. When he gets in that pain, he tries to start pump faking. You saw him have troubles at time in the Boston series with the length trying to finish over it. I would, my game plan, Jimmy Butler, left, make him move

left as much as possible, right? Keep him moving to his left hand. He is going to try to get back to the right. They're going to bring some sort of pick and roll. I'm going under the first pick and roll. If they rescreen, because that's always going to his right hand almost. So if they rescreen that pick and roll, which is what you're taught to do when he goes under,

I'm now going to hit that, right? I'm going to hit that, making him go left and seeing if he can spit it back out to the right hand side. that's usually bam at a bio up at the top of the key. If he goes right, I'm jumping for no reason at all. None. I'm not leaving the floor, right? I wall up, hands high.

He made a great adjustment in game seven without the pump fake, but his natural inclination is to want a pump fake. He's trying to get to the line. Yeah, he wants that line. It's like D. Wade, their natural inclination is the pump fake. So they're breaking a habit when they don't pump fake. I'm staying down, making you finish over the length. And anything moving to his right hand out on that perimeter when he's going, you know, full speed to a corner, just give him that.

I don't understand why cats still run on that shit trying to block it. Like, it's a foul or he's making or missing it. You're really not affecting it. Right. So just fucking give him that and keep him off the free throw line. But make him move left, under pick and roll and wall up in the pink. Who's a guy that you guarded, Ra, that physically was like that? Would it be Wade?

Would it be Brandon Roy? Who's a guy that was kind of like, this is going to be a long night day? down here as opposed to, oh, mellow, of course, yeah, fucking mellow,

man. I mean, it's a perfect comp, like not necessarily looking the same in terms of aesthetically, but it could beat you from the perimeter,

you know, great mid-range pull-up. And, you know, once he got you below that, like, I don't know, half-frito line

around that semi-circle, I mean, if help didn't come, you were in trouble for someone my size. Now, again, if Jimmy Butler has,

you know, six eight, six, nine on him and they're just going to be vertical. Right. He's, you know, he's six, seven, bro. That's a, that's advantage. I think Denver getting him in there. But I think there is a blueprint to guard, Jimmy. It's just, you know, shit's easier said than done. Yeah, exactly.

Right. There's a part of it that's just literally just like discipline. It's so weird. It's just like, hey, like, when you talk about that pump fake, like, hey, man, stay down on the pump fakes. All right, cool. And you know, how many times guys got that in the first fucking pump, the first pump bag.

They bite like, ah, shit. Got me, bro. He got me. I try to tell kids all the time, like, bro, you're not fucking blocking that. So it was easy for me, right? I guess that's what made me good in some scenarios. Like, I know that I'm not blocking your shot or I know I can't steal the ball from you. Like, so I'm not even going to try.

So then when you go to move, guess who's standing there? Yeah. Me, because I'm not blocking it. It's interesting. Denver's had like just this interesting time in the postseason, right? because they get on the, on the easy side of the Western Conference bracket. We didn't probably know that. It's interesting to say like that.

They played against KD. And they played against Puck and they played against these guys. But, you know, they play against the aging LeBron. And that Lakers team was just, they just didn't have it in there. Like the Denver was clearly a better team. The better team. What does Denver have to prove in this series after the postseason that they've had? And just over the years that they've had,

What is the biggest thing that they need to prove in this series? I think if it had been any other opponent, if it were the Celtics, then I wouldn't think they'd have to prove anything. I think this is the progression. You want to win. Of course, the goal is always to win. But, like, I think people would tip their cab. Well, Milwaukee's a hell of a team too.

Boston's a hell of a team. But playing against Miami, regardless of the run they've had in these playoffs, they are still the eight seed that lost its play in game and was 10 minutes away from losing the second playing game. And people are going to look at Denver if they lose this series and say, wait a second, hold on. So you beat a playing team in the first round. You beat the sons in the second round, but they're kind of short-handed, right? You beat the Lakers who are a playing team in the third in the conference finals.

And then you went to the finals and you lost a playing team. Like, how good were you guys really? Like, it was set up for you to win and you guys didn't get the job done. I don't, I'm not a bit, like, when Janice talked about that whole speech and everybody was gooing on themselves about like, oh yeah, it's the journey, it's not, yes, in general, yes, he's right. Because every year there's only one winner. And so you have to be able to draw positives on all of this experience, right? But that doesn't apply when you are supposed to be the dominant team and you don't bring it home, right? Right. Miami, like, again, I don't want anyone to feel like I'm saying Miami ain't shit. But I watch them all season long, man. I watch them almost lose to the Chicago Bulls who are not a good team, right?

At home. Dog, I'm sorry, Milwaukee, you cannot lose to them. And if you do lose to them, that is a failure because you had expectation on your side, not expectation to go to finals, win championships, But just the expectations of the right now, like, I'm better at this point. If I go into a fight against Mike Tyson and I knock Mike Tyson out, you can't tell me, Mike Tyson sit there like, well, it's the journey. Like, no, that was a failure, dude.

I let Amino Hassan knock my ass out. He said, fuck Buster Douglas. Fuck a Biedel Hassan. I'm saying, man, like, that's a failure. Any way you want to cut it, like, that's a failure. Too often, I'm really big on, do your fucking job, man. Do your fucking job. So many times people don't do their job

and then like they, oh, well, like, look, man, I didn't ask you to be the best ever. I asked you to do your job, like just in the micro. You're supposed to win these games. And if you lose these games, let it be because someone got suspended, let it be because someone got kicked out of a game, let it be because someone hit a miraculous shot

at the end of the game with 0.2 seconds left. Don't get your ass beat, man, by the team that was losing double digits to the Chicago fucking Bulls, man. that's a failure. So Denver loses to Miami. I'm sorry. People can say,

it's a journey and all that shit and we can drum up their path that Miami's had and they're good enough to be here and all that stuff. Yes. And also, you had far and away

the best player on the floor. You had home court advantage. You had altitude that you guys bitch about all the time and put numbers on your floor to tell people how tough it is the player. You had everything on your side. Every fucking time out.

I mean, every timeout they have those. fucking signs up. Oh, my God. The announcements. You had a week, a week plus of rest and scouting, right? Like, you guys had all the time in the world to read what everyone's doing and have scout teams are like, okay, you're going to be like Jimmy Butler in this scenario.

Or you're going to be like Jason Nadeum in this scenario. They had all the time in the world. They had every advantage on their side. Miami just got off a flight, bro. Like, if you can't win this, I'm sorry. that is a failure. So it's one of those awful legacy things where it's like, if you win,

that was what you were supposed to do. If you lose, oh, man, you choke. Yeah, it's definitely a tough card to kind of draw as your first finals card, right? Because had it been anybody else and any other real circumstance with a better team coming out of the East,

and you could essentially, like, show well in the playoffs, not get it done. And we'd be saying, hey, man, like, yeah, dude, they're on, you know, it's the next step in the journey for them. But you're fucking right.

You lose to the heat with all of these advantages you have, and we will be painting a different picture. And I think that they're going to get tested. The nuggets are going to get tested on a few fronts. And I think the biggest being strategically, like what Eric Spolstra and the heat have shown to have been able to do, through the course of multiple playoffs, is throw different shit at you that you have to have an answer for.

And it's going to be interested to see how dental, handles that. Like I like Mike Malone. I think he's a great coach, but I haven't seen him tested by anyone throughout these playoffs like that. And so having answers for that is going to be critical. And because of everything that you just said, it takes me back to one of the first things I said, if Miami gets their hands on them, and by that I mean can get a win early in this series, like can start the pressure mounting on the heat because we're talking about pressure and expectations, right? And the heat are still that fighter that comes in that I told you does not give a fuck. Like, I told you about different players on their team, but as a collective right now,

they don't give a fuck. Well, we got to lose. Yeah. We are, we are playing team. We did almost get beat. I mean, they're like, they're like B rabbit on the mic right now. Right. Like, I'm going to tell you everything you're going to say against me right now. So like, if, if they should get a win in terms of strategy and Mike Malone company can't figure something out early or just generally catch a game where, you know, sometimes it's hard when you've been sitting at home. You haven't been playing real basketball in the midst of the most heightened,

intense basketball on the planet for you to take a weak pause. That shit can throw your rhythm off. You come out, you're not hot. Miami's hitting shots. You fuck around and let a game slip. Now, we got, we have problems. I'm real talk. You'll have problems.

One last thing to add on top of that. Also, how you handle adversity, right? Like, Denver, I don't believe it's been down in a series this entire time. Like how you handle, everything's cool when we're winning. Like, everyone does the right thing. Even if we lose a game,

but we're up in a series, everyone's like, all right, no problem. When you're down in a series and all of a sudden, like, guys start having ideas. Especially in a place that you've never been before. Especially in a place you've never been before. Raja, you are a beef correspondent,

you know, for the pot. You're the one that analyzes it all. What is your... How do you get? this storyline that's coming up in this series. That came really late, right? Like, almost where you forget about it, the Markeith Morris, Yokic beef that is like,

that the Miami Heat has somehow taken on as a storyline of the series, isn't going to affect how the Miami Heat go into this series at all, one iota. Have they real? Is that a thing? It became a storyline like out of thin air, bro. Like, I don't know. I wasn't there, but like, I'm thinking about like, man,

The Heat have just had a great season. And they go through the playoffs. They get to the finals. That's the story. And then somebody asks, if there's Ira or somebody, but somebody asks Jimmy about it about the beep from last year. And it became like a little storyline, man. What's up?

I mean, I guess I could make a case for like any little bit of incentive or bulletin board material would be helpful. But I am of the school of thought that if the heat needs some shit like that at this point, we can write them off. And I'm not writing them off. So I don't think it's a thing to them. Like, I mean, where the fuck is Markief? Like, I like Markief Morris.

I don't mean no shame. But where is he? Like, why would the heat even give a shit about, and if I'm being honest, like, if you're concerned with shit like that at this point in any way, shape, or form, you have completely taken your eyes off the ball? Do you know what I mean? Not enough time, not enough energy and reserve. Not enough emotional bandwidth.

Like, yo, bro, we are here to get this. we want one win. Let's get one. Let's get one of one. And if we do that, like who knows what happens in game two. And now we got a snowball effect. I worry about no damn Morris.

It got axed, which was hilarious. It was so hilarious that it got axed. But I just like the idea of like somewhere Eudanus Hasselam is sitting them down and like, all right, guys, y'all remember what these guys did that. Like, Max Schuze was like barely playing.

He wasn't in the rotation yet. But then, like, Caleb Martin had a completely different role. Gabe Vincent, I don't even know if he was on the roster at that point. I think he was, like, a mid-season thing. Haywood Highsmith wasn't there. Like, like, it's just the idea of guys like, oh, yeah, yeah, I guess. It's just, it's, it's, it's like the most tenuous of, like, like, Roger said. Like, it's just one of those things where it's fun to talk about.

But anyway, it's like people thought like Grant Williams somehow, like, ended the series by talking shit to Jimmy Butler. I'm like, first of all, he did the best job of, he actually fought when everybody else was laying down. You know, no one else had his back. I was like,

yeah, and they let, they let him get torched. But like, I was like, Grant Williams actually played a great, he played one of the best games for the Celtics at game. Did you see at the,

after Grant Williams did that, to ask Jayler Brown? So what did you think about Grant Williams' actions? He goes, next question. Come on. So, A dog, everybody, they asked, hold on, they asked Spoh, they asked Missoula, they asked Jimmy, they asked Jason Tatum.

Everybody said the same thing. Like, man, I said basketball. I didn't think anything of it. Like, you know, guys talk. It's competitive. Da-da-da-da. Everyone said the same thing. Jayla Brown said, next question.

I'm like, bro, all you had to do is just lie. Even if you believe, like, yes, this shit blew us the game. You can't say next question. I hate what people do that, man. I'm like, come on, man. Y'all think he coming back? Jelan Brown. Why are you asking me that, man?

They hate me over there, bro. Why are you asking me that shit? Go ahead, Roger. Go ahead, Rob. I mean, I don't know. No one knows. I said, do you think? I don't really know.

I said, do you think? They think he's coming back. I think he should come back. That's a grandiose bag. I mean, that bag is a large bag. I don't know. I think they should sign him. I think that I think they should sign them.

That's what I'll say. I think that he should start. Yeah, dude, look, I said it before. I mean, I don't know where his head is at or anything like that. But if I have two all-MBA players, you know, like one, first team and a second team, bro, that's hard for me to, that's hard for me to give up. I'm more worried about, I'm more worried about Jason Tatum hobnobbing in the summertime after he got beat again, you know, like last year when he's, like,

he got embarrassed last year and is over here partying all the time, like just outside. Bro, I won't buy stars in a gym after they get embarrassed. bro. That's what I'm more concerned about with this team. Are they going to be embarrassed and just use that energy to fucking win the finals next year, bro? That's what I be, that's my beef with the Celtics, bro. They're one of the most talented, if not the most talented team in the league. But they lay eggs, bro, because they worried about the wrong shit. Sorry, I mean, I think, I think, yeah, no, no, there's something missing for sure.

But, like, also, they win 50 plus games a year, a year every year. year. They've been to five conference finals. Like, I don't, I don't think it's a massive overall that's needed here. It might be a tinker, but I don't think trading Jalen Brown is the, is the thing that's going to get you over the top, especially at this point. Who is not? Look at it. Like, next, next year in the Eastern Conference, like, who, their, their, their, their best competition is going to be what it always has been is Milwaukee and themselves. Like, the Sixers are not going to have James Hardin next year. you know, like, who else are you thinking is a legitimate threat to this team?

Like, you know what it feels like they're missing to me real talk? Like, it feels, and I don't know who this player, it feels like they're missing a heartbeat. Like, if it feels like they're missing like a heartbeat, I don't have a better way to really describe it. Like, that guy that in their moments of weakness. Their heartbeat last year was M.A. Udoka, though. That was a thing. That was their heartbeat. But even then, right?

But even then, what happened in the finals, right? Like, the same thing happened. So I guess if you talk about if they would have had continuity with M.A. That they probably would have developed that mental toughness. But I just, I don't know. Well, you got Stephed in the finals, bro. Like, there's nothing to be like hide your head and shame about there. You get Steph Curry in the finals.

Like, there's a lot of motherfuckers that can say that. Like, that's not the same to me as what just happened. There's an element of, this is the thing that Steph and LeBron and the great, great players of our game have on their side, especially when playing against younger teams, which is every young team, I think, goes into a series like, we can beat them, we're going to beat them, da-da-da. And then you can start playing.

And then, like, the things start happening. When those teams win, they're telltale signs. And I believe young players watch and they say, oh, shit, I saw this when I was, like, in the ninth grade when they were, I was watching those finals. And he's doing that thing. And now he's doing it to me.

Well, it's interesting, bro, Because like even like with with to your point on that like Shailon Brown was at Cal the 73 and nine year he was at Cal he was he would I remember I was talking to him like in January he was talking about Brian we used to go to the games all the time with Nick right like yeah with Nick Kerr right like so there's a level of this like you you can't put in the words these kids still have that I think this is what LeBron still has over the league is that all these little dudes went to LeBron's camp right they're like oh fuck like I was 12 when I went to his camp.

I see him now in the flesh. This is crazy. But it's more, Logan, more than that it's a level of like, you see like Steph, for instance, you see one shot,

two shot, three shots. And you're like, oh, fuck, I've watched this movie before. Like, I've seen this movie before.

It's like being in a movie with Freddie Kruger. And then you're like, oh, yeah, he's going to kill me. Like, it's a Freddie Kruger movie. Like,

that's, there's a level of that, that I think, occurs and you have to fight through that fear. And come on, other side. Game seven, Sacramento. Like, oh, yeah, we're better. Oh, we're the better

team. Oh, like, we got you. Number Mike Brown has all every scheme and everything. And then game seven, and it's like, oh, shit. Like, I've seen this movie before. We don't win this one. You know, like, that was funny because I was thinking about, like, that anecdote is really hilarious because I was thinking about that when the Warriors were playing the Lakers going into,

after that series. It was like, yeah, the Warriors got Steph and they got my control, but they're going up against a team that don't give a shit about that, right? They have LeBron and then then by extension has AD so it's just interesting how that comes about but like my thing is this with the Celtics like can

Jason Tatum turn into that dude like at times he's that he's an MVP guy but can he turn it to that dude of like I'm motherfucking Jason Tatum I am Jason Tatum can he turn into that on a night to night basis? That's definitely a question that needs to be asked

and answered. My take on the Celtics is you tell me, I think my theory on the NBA is you have to have honest to God passers. And what I mean by honest to God passers, I mean like, I'm not passing because everything collapsed and I guess this is the only, this is the right basketball play. I'm going to pass it. I'm talking about guys who are thinking when the ball hits their hands, who can I pass this to? Right?

Move it. Moving it, right? The teams that win year in and year out have those guys. The teams where it's like, oh, yeah, I pass it when, like, the shot isn't there, they hit a ceiling. And to me, I look at Boston and people say, oh, they got Brogden. I'm like, Brogden's not that guy. I love Brogden. But he's not a – he's a score first guy.

And Tatum and Brown and Smart thinks he's a score first guy, right? And Horford, kind of, but he's just not as involved in the offense to resound. There's got to be someone who gets a ton of touches. Yeah. And so, you know, like, is there a toughness thing? Yes, I think there's a toughness going on. Is there, like, our stars need to level up. Tatum with his toughness, with his, like, fortitude and brown with maybe adding a left hand,

sue me there, right? Yeah, sure. Those are, there's always room for improvement in those areas. But I think roster-wise, they need, like, I'm trying to think who's, like, Mike Conley. if Mike Conley played for the Celtics it'd be a massive game changer

not because Mike Conley is that nice at this stage of his career but because he fucking knows how to get guys and keeps track of like okay this guy's got to

going guys you got to go this way you need someone who thinks like that when you don't have someone who thinks like that you are susceptible to these ups and downs

because you're just hoping everyone does the right thing that's the tough part about I imagine I'm not I mean it's a tough part about roster building in today's NBA

because in the old NBA like you had guys that clearly fit molds. Like we talked about it before. Like this is, Roger, here's what you're here to do, right? Like Logan,

this is your job. Now, at any given time, you know, we have one guy that's going to have the ball in his hands and do the lion's share of the work. He is going to delegate and kind of parse out, you know,

and make sure you get what you need here and there. And then you do your job within the confines of what you ask you to do. Now in this game, everyone can play with the ball in their hands, right? And this is the interest of part of me about what you said. like everyone, they want all these guys that have a skill set. You hear they got to be able to make plays.

We need more people that can make plays. Yeah, you only need a couple really good playmakers. And then you need dudes that understand what you're talking about. When that shit swings to me, when it comes from Jason Tatum or Jalen Brown, it's not my job to make a fucking play with like four bounces. It's my job to either shoot it quickly, drive it into a gap or move it, not to like back out and bounce four times and get into my bag. And so you've got like just marginal and fractional duplication of skill sets that eventually have a lot of overlap because you got four or five dudes that, okay, I'm not as good as Jason Tatum in that, but I'm kind of similar in that regard.

I get it and I want to get in my bag. You know, and again, as a league, people are asking for more playmakers. But God damn it, you can't have. That's why Golden States works so well. There's so many of them that don't see themselves as primary playmakers. It's only a couple. Precisely. precisely.

And Boston has a lot of dudes that want to, shit, you got, smart ones to be a playmaker, fucking, you know, Bronvin was to be a playmaker? Even, what's the Bull's name that hit the shot? To send Eric White. And he's, and he will accept a lot of times that he's not the playmaker, but given the opportunity, he goes into playmaker mode. I knew it was over when, when Derek White is out here in game seven driving and say,

let's go, let's get the team, let's go, down 19. I was like, it's over. It's fucking over. Hey, but not for nothing, though. He was rocking for a while. He kept him afloat for like seven minutes. That's true. But, Roger, you will admit this.

Oh, no, yeah, yeah. Derek White can't be doing that. We need jailing and Jason to fucking be doing this shit. But anyway, yeah, you are right. There's a problem. Before we get to a real one of the week. Who wins the finals and in how many games? I'll go first.

I got Denver and six. Right, who you got? Actually, you know what? No, no, this is what I said. This is what I said. I got Denver and five or seven because I just don't know if I don't think that they get. to game six in my end.

I don't know if they do that. So I'll say five or seven. Is that fair? Yeah, I like Denver. I like Denver and six. I like your original one. Okay. Man,

this is a fairy tale ride for the heat, man, and I won't be pulling for them to lose. But God, dog, man, that doesn't that shit got to end at some point. I mean, right? We keep telling ourselves. I mean, I don't know.

I'm going to take Denver and six. I don't, I don't know, man. I'm going to take Denver and six. I think I'm going to go, I'm going to go Denver. Denver and six. I wanted to say Denver and five,

but I was like, but to me it comes down to one thing and one thing. I just don't think Miami has the personnel to deal with Yokic. I literally, I give Miami the edge in every other category.

Some in small ways, some massive edges. But like, we've seen it time and time again, man. It's so hard to beat a team when there's just one guy who's clearly better than everybody else. I mean,

the history of our league is that one guy ends up on top. All right. Let's get to a little segment we like to call for our Thursday episodes. We're one of the week where we're pouring out a person entity or an organization that won the week.

I'll go first. We'll give it to Ron and our guest. My first one is one, Kendrick Lamar, who was finally having fun. I was really happy to see his last video with Baby Kim where he's having fun. There's been a lot of heavy albums

for the last 10 years. I was really excited to see him smile for the first time. in 10 years. So Kijlomar, real one of the week. Roger, who is your real one of the week? I'm going to give a shout out to one of my old buddies, man, who was one of my vets when I was in Dallas, and he just got the head coaching job with the Milwaukee Bucks, one Adrian Griffin. A Saul's at an Earth type of teammate, man, good dude, always looked out on multiple

fronts for a young cat in the league, just trying to find his way. He's been an assistant for a lot really good teams. I don't know what kind of head coach he's going to be, admittedly, but getting an opportunity at it with a franchise like the Bucks and a star like Yonnas,

I'm really excited for him. So shout out, real one, Adrian Griffin. Shout out, because those jobs aren't typically the ones that go to people like AG. Like,

you usually got to go get you a shitty job with a bunch of 12-year-olds and by the time you get them a little, yep. You got the time you get them a little developed, then they fire your ass ass and hire someone else. So shout out to him.

Oh, my real one of the week. I got to go with, you know what, man? I shout out on a different podcast. I'm going to do it again. It's Omar Kanani. Omar is the guy who he trains Caleb Martin. He trains T.J. Warren. He trains, obviously, Cody Martin as well.

And he trains Jay Cole. And the Jay Cole story has been everywhere about how Cole was the one that put the call in the Karam Butler. so you guys should give it look at this Caleb Martin kid and got him into the informals and the informals that left a two-way deal that led to Caleb Martin arguably should have been the conference finals MVP.

So it's a crazy ride and Cole did do that. That is a true story. But the reason why Cole knows who he is is because Omar was training them at Coles. Cole's got a practice facility at his house. So that's, but they play a bunch of pickup ball there, all the pros like David West and all these North Carolina pros

guys that played a, you know, James Mays that played at Clemson and all these guys who are local guys they go play pickup there in the summer and Omar does a lot of off-season training there and so that's how Cole knew the Martin twins and Caleb in particular and he was like, what do you mean you're not signed anywhere?

You're just sitting around and that's how that happens so shout out to Omar even though he's an asshole I ain't good fuck that guy keep that shit in Oh, man. I mean, thanks so much for coming on, bro.

That has been another edition of Real Ones, friend of the show. All right, man. It's Thursday. So you know what that is, man. It's time for me to go watch Kardashians. I'll see you guys on Monday. Tap it. Ah, all the shits.

See y'all Monday. Bye.