The Ringer NBA Show - An Introduction to Trade Season | Group Chat

Episode Date: February 2, 2021

Justin and Rob look around the NBA for potential deals ahead of the trade deadline, including possible moves by teams like the Dallas Mavericks, Miami Heat, and New Orleans Pelicans. Later, the two look at some of the more untouchable players across the league. Hosts: Justin Verrier and Rob Mahoney Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello and welcome to group chat, the ringer's weekly MBA group discussion, or don't you talk about my husband. Don't talk about him. I am Justin Verrier, joining me today, courtside Rob Mahoney himself. I mean, as your podcast husband, I'm just flattered. You would defend me like that. Always, man. Always. And that's it today. It's just Rob and I doing a little two-man game, his favorite type of game. As we know, we're not going to go deep in, to the politics of courtside Karens and why they are, for some reason, courtside amid a pandemic in Atlanta. Instead, we are going to focus on the future. Specifically, what's ahead in a month here. It is rumor monger season officially this week. We're going to kick it off by

talking about five questions that we're thinking as we barrel toward March 25th. We will get into that right after this. All right. So there's two big dates this week that make this one, an important one on the trade calendar. Today, February 2nd, players cannot be traded and reflipped again. So you can only trade guys once. You can't, you know, trade them to Boston and then two weeks later, trade them to Chicago. And then on Saturday, this is probably the bigger date,

is when the player signed over the off season can officially be traded. So this is when you see front offices and specifically podcasts earmarked, these two dates or thereabouts in order to start talking about trades in order because more things can happen, basically. And so instead of talking about actual basketball, I had to wave rob off and talk about fake trades and what the people want. Well, rightly so. I mean, we're getting a little bit arcane here in terms of the re-aggregation deadline and whatnot. But this is the kind of official opening of trade season. Now that a lot of players are on the table, I think there is still a small subset players who are re-signed using very particular CBA provisions at a certain amount of

raises aren't eligible to be traded until March. But other than that, very small pool of players, pretty much everybody is going to be on the table, which that's the grease that allows a lot of these trades to go through. It's just the sheer amount of possibilities that you have to entertain. Yeah, and I have to say, it seems particularly quiet even more than a month out from the actual trade deadline. Things are going to percolate more when people, feel the deadline more. But I do wonder if the play-in tournament and just the prospect of making the play-in tournament is going to chill the market a little bit because, I mean, even a team like Chicago who has been pretty much out of it, like out of the public radar, out of any sort of

playoff race the entire year so far, they can realistically say like, hey, you know, we could make the play in tournament, maybe get into the first round, whatever. So there aren't a lot of names on the market for that reason. There are definitely a few, which you probably already know and I've already heard of, that we're going to talk about here. But I don't know about you. I was a little surprised looking around that. I'm not even seeing any sort of, I don't know, Demartre Rosen level guy out there just because like the Spurs, just a couple days ago, we're actually in the top four in the standings in the West. But I do think as we get closer to the deadline, the level of teams, the number of teams that are close to the plan could spur some kind of challenge trades or

positional shifts among that group of teams in terms of trades. You'll see team, you know, like, oh, we need a point guard, you need a power forward, let's make a deal so we can both be more competitive in our respective conferences. I could see that coming up as we get a little closer to the deadline. But I think for now, the real challenge is just the sheer number of incompletes that we have, teams that have been hit hard by COVID or hit hard by injuries and just don't even know what their team is yet. That's a great point.

A lot of teams could probably rationalize this as, like, I don't know what my rotation is because I haven't had my rotation. There are so many back-to-backs. There are so many COVID scratches. There are so many just random games that just get blown off the calendar that, like, it's hard to really know what's what right now. And this is actually a good segue to our first question here, which is which team with aspirations need to make a move the most. And I'll go first here because I want to talk about the Dallas Mavericks, who all of a sudden are in a lot of trouble. They're 8 and 13. They are now on a six-game losing streak. But to the earlier point I was making, if you look at their recent schedule, it's been particularly brutal where they have the jazz in the midst of this buzzsaw. I think it was, what, 11 in one run or something like that?

They have Phoenix back-to-back. And so these back-to-back series could influence how a team and how we look at the team because they have to play. very tough opponents all in a row, as opposed to chopping them up, getting a wizard's here, getting, I don't know, in Atlanta or Minnesota there. So let's start here.

How do you feel about the Mavs right now, what, two months into the season or so? Well, I think what's damning about those back-to-back series is this is kind of the exact situation where you would expect a Rick Carlisle team to do well. You know, even if they lose the first game, they would split. You know, they would make the adjustments,

they would make the change they need to. they have not been able to do that. I mean, the defense has been very bad. They're the worst three-point shooting in the team in the league right now. I think over their last 10 games, they're sub-30% on three-point shooting. These are huge structural problems within their team.

And we saw, you know, glimpses of competent offensive play earlier in the season that they weren't able to hold up. They need some juice in a bad way. And they look a little bit lifeless on the floor sometimes. They don't look totally locked into what they're supposed to be doing. It's been, don't remember the last stretch of Mavericks basketball that was this rough, just from a technical

standpoint. Yeah. And I guess this is the question with them is how much of it is baked into the team itself, considering some of the changes they made coming into this season versus how much it is, is it the COVID absences? Is it some of the rotational stuff? Because this is a team that has been hit among the hardest in the league with some of these COVID scratches.

Josh Richardson was out for a while and some other guys. on the other hand, the shooting thing is really perplexing. You look around the roster, you wouldn't necessarily say this is a team just completely bereft of three-point shooters. They did, however, make the key change of Seth Curry for Josh Richardson. Right. And you could say that a lot of these guys, some of the guys who aren't shooting particularly well, will eventually bounce back.

It's more of a sample size issue. But I do wonder if that one in particular is a bigger trade-off than they ever expected, because Richardson is at the point where he's a good maybe three-point shooter, but I don't know if teams are respecting him as such, and you could kind of see the trickle-down of how that affects the rest of the offense. Heavy on the maybe with the three-point shooting with Richardson, I think. And I will say, Seth Curry is one of the best three-point shooters in the world, one of the career leaders in terms of all-time percentage in three-point shooting.

His estimation has grown by leaps and balance. Like the tall tales you hear from Mavericks fans now, about Seth Curry, who was playing 20-some odd minutes a game for them last year, he's sorely missed. And some of that really is just the trade-offs in terms of the offense. And this is where you get into trouble sometimes when you are elite on one side of the ball and you're trying to level out a little bit. You want to build up your defense.

You have to give up some of your offense to do that. And in doing so, maybe the Mavs assumed a little too much in terms of the stability of that, that they would be able to sustain exactly who they were offensively last year, even with a little less shooting, even with a little less punch. And especially when they, you know, some of their better offensive players even, guys like Tim Hardaway Jr. Are almost every other night type of players. You know, they're a little streakier,

which, you know, lends itself to all of a sudden losing six games in a row. There's just not a lot of juice on this team. And I do wonder if they're the perfect candidate for this question where it just, you do something in order to shake it up. Now, the problem there is the asset pool is, limited because, as everyone has now talked about this week, they do owe two first round draft picks, the New York Knicks, including this one, which if the season ended today, would be a lottery pick and it would be a complete windfall for the Knicks, and all of a sudden

the Pershingas trade looks completely different than it did on the day that I recorded a blockbuster breaking news podcast in which we all applaud the New York Knicks for such a move. Here's what I'm thinking. I look at the market. There's probably no. easy solution to what the Mavs need. And I do wonder if they played enough in the immediate future, if they played well enough in the immediate future that they could probably solve enough where they can go forward. But I do think like the West is unforgivable and they probably need to make up more ground than I think a lot of people are willing to admit right now just in order to maintain ground in

the standings. I look at PJ Tucker as a guy who could come in there and give them perhaps the grit they're looking for defensively while still maintaining some of the spacing they're looking for on the offensive event. It's probably leaning a little bit more defensive than you'd like considering for a team that built its identity last year and success around their offense, around their historic offense. But I do wonder if he strikes a balance. And more importantly, gives them an edge, which is what you heard a lot of people talk about with James Johnson and that move over the off season. He can be a little bit

of a gritty guy. He can stand up for Luca when the Marcus Morrises want to step on his foot. I wonder if he does that better than perhaps a Johnson for them. What do you think? I think he does. And more importantly, I think he kicks his own team's ass a little bit, you know, hopefully get them into a different gear. But I want to circle back to, before we get too deep into the PJ Tucker part of this, onto one of your other premises, which is that the West is unforgiving this year. I've been wondering about this because there are, it is a thick conference in competence. You know, going from four on down to 12 and 13, 14,

these are pretty good basketball teams. But the Mavericks right now are, what, three games about of the eighth seed. They faced one of the tougher schedules, at least in terms of the area you laid out so far of their schedule, their upcoming schedule isn't any easier. Maybe over the back half things lightened up considerably. We'll have to see what that looks like.

I wonder if the West is really, that tough, especially when so many of these other teams are, you know, if San Antonio gets the wrong injury at the wrong time, if Houston or Sacramento or Oklahoma City, these are not world beating teams. I think Dallas still has some room for optimism, even if they don't make a deal, just on the sake that they have the best player of kind of any team in this group and whether they can climb because of that if their schedule lightens up. That's kind of what I would be banking on, even if you don't want to make more aggressive moves. Yeah, it's really tough to say. I mean, they're definitely are some really bad teams.

I think Minnesota's in that category. The Pelicans are starting to look like they're in that territory, the thunder. But, like, again, the teams that we would say, like, are kind of on the outside looking in on a playoff chase right now are still pretty difficult.

Like the Kings last night, Deere and Fox all of a sudden looks like an all-star. And people around the Kings are definitely talking about him as an all-star, which is conveniently timed with all-star ballots going out here. I'm sure that has nothing to do with that. But like even the rockets are playing above their head. Their defense all of a sudden looks like the 04 Detroit Pistons, the Spurs, as we mentioned, like flirted with being near the top of the West.

I think the Warriors are kind of the prime example of this. As a team, like, by record is more middling, is currently seventh than the NBA. But like the other type of team that could just, like, if Steph Curry is on and everything is clicking, they could just blow a team off the floor. and I guess to circle back to the Mavs here, right now they're playing down oftentimes to their competition in certain games. And I just, I don't know,

even in last night's game, I think you could look at it one of two ways. Like, they came within Devin Booker 3-pointer of beating the Sons who are a tough out on any night. On the other hand, there seemed to be some of the same issues

that I think you would expect. Like Chris Paul just completely cooked Chris Stops or Willie Colley Stein whenever he had on him. I mean, like, it seems like one of his passions in life to embarrass every center on a switch, but he seemed to have, like, real joy in just seeing Christops, seeing the spikes of his hair in front of him and just, like, stepping back and shooting over him. So I don't know.

We're going to have to have a real chat at some point in the next couple weeks and months about Chris Staps, Porzengis, if this continues. And, you know, he's working his way back. He hasn't had that many games on the floor yet, but has not looked like the kind of player the Mavs need him to be, has not. been as mobile defensively as they need him to be. A lot rests on his shoulders just by the structure of this team. And they have big problems as it is. Like Willie Colley Stein is not really the long-term solution there. And so that's why I'm compelled by players like PJ Tucker for them, guys who can

play big, you know, aren't going to give you the rebounding you need necessarily, but can give you some of the physicality, can fill those spots more competitively than they've been able to do. It's a tricky spot for them. As for the West, I think I'm more just saying, I've been hearing a lot of that about how unforgiving the West is and how competitive it is this season. I think some of that is holdover from the last, I don't know, three decades of hyper-competitive Western Conference basketball versus this year more than ever feels very top-heavy to me. So I'm not ruling out the maths just yet, even if they just kind of get their shit together. Just a bunch of Western coastal elitist is what you're saying. This is the view from Texas right now.

I would never say something like that. But yeah, I don't know. I think Tucker would make sense for them, especially with Chris Tops in the lineup still. He's probably going to sit out at least half of back-to-back sets. And so I wonder if you could almost do a pseudo-Rocket situation on some nights where Luca really leans into the Harden comp, and you have PJ Tucker playing five in those games.

And then when Christop's is available, you could play both of them. And Tucker could be more of the wing stopper. you probably want out there, even though he's not probably fit to that, especially as he gets older, as he gets broken down. It's a tough ask, I think, for him. But let's, let's, you know, let's skip away from the Western Coast elitism

and flip coast for a minute. Because I want to talk to you about the heat. Okay. They're a team who I think could rightfully put themselves in the incomplete, inconclusive category. They're just getting Jimmy Butler back. He is very clearly not himself yet. They've had guys in and out of the lineup all season.

And yet, something is a little fishy there for me in watching them. Just the level of competitiveness is not where you would expect it to be. They're 26th the net rating so far to the point that I think Bam out of bio has been incredible in terms of taking steps forward and adding to his game and it hasn't meant anything. How concerned are you about the heat once they do have their full lineup? They're able to get some continuity. They're able to get back to kind of who they were. Do you think they're still missing pieces?

see this is where I would say conferences in the heat's favorite because I look at the east and I look at the teams ahead of them and I just think like now this is a podcast being recorded after they just lost to the Hornets in overtime but Jimmy Butler stepped in the first game and all of a sudden looked like

skin even though he's now skinny Jimmy Butler he looked perfectly fine and so I wonder if this is just more of a case of guys being in an the lineup as opposed to anything structurally wrong. And then I don't know. Do we have any belief that the calves are going to finish better than them? The Hawks?

Like, he has so much talent and they have so much institutional, I don't know, just success and just they know what they're doing there that I don't have as much of a concern about them as I do the Mavs, but I can definitely see why someone would. It's getting later in the season that people realize. It's one of those tough things because I'm having a hard time putting my finger on what it is exactly that they need. It's so much more of a cohesive issue that they haven't been able to collectively get back up to the level that they were, which is natural. You're missing Jimmy Butler, you're missing guys on a nightly basis or a weekly basis.

How are you supposed to, especially as one of the more balanced democratic offenses, be the team you were that got to the NBA finals? So maybe that's unfair. But just in watching them, I've just kind of tangibly felt it to be a different experience this year. And I'm curious to see how much of that is the lack of ability to get guys on the floor. versus something in this team has shifted in a way that we haven't fully realized. You know what the difference is, I think, just in addition to all the COVID absences, Jay Crowder. Like, they made a conscious decision, as did Dallas. So it's interesting that we group them two together to maybe save their powder for the offseason

when someone like Janus could be available to just slot into that money that they had. And instead, they went with Mo Hartless. They brought back Myers-Lennard on a balloon contract in order to just like, reserve the second year flexibility. And I do wonder if they had someone like there, like Crowder in there, things would be a little bit different. Yeah, I haven't loved that spot of the rotation.

And I haven't loved the Tyler Hero as nominal point guard. You know, I realize he's not the one playing traditional point guard here. But just the way those lineups match up defensively, where it puts those players offensively, I get why they're doing it. It makes total sense, given the layout of their team. I would not call it a smashing success so far. Yeah, I'm also not.

all that worried about Miami, if only because they just keep finding guys in the G-lead. They keep just, like, mass-producing these, like, three-point shooters, like, Max Strauss all a sudden is a guy in the rotation. I remember going into the season, someone in Miami was like, actually, they think Kasi Akpala has more upside than Tyler Hero. So they have these guys just, like, brewing in the background. They're fermenting as if they're like a sourdough starter, just ready to eventually become rotation players for them. Let's bake. Yeah, I should also mention that. The other day, I tried a sourdough starter. Did not start, unfortunately, so I have to restart. What did the end result look like? Just like a blob. It's cold in L.A. man. It's hard to really

prove. I need one of the proving ovens from the Great British Bake Off. Do you have any trades for the heat that make any sense? I have a hard time putting those together. I don't have anything tangible. yet I guess they're more just kind of a team I'm keeping my eye on from that respect. They have to do something. We won't say what it is, but that's for them to figure out. They must do something. I do have another kind of proposal for PJ Tucker, though,

which is, what about the Nuggets? You know, we are obligated on this podcast to bring up Jeremy Grant every episode. For sure. Could PJ Tucker fill some of the Jeremy Grant void as a guy who gives you options and coverage, who you can play alongside Nicola Yokic. And, you know,

Jamichael Green gives you a certain flavor of this, but I like having the ability to switch between them, depending on the matchups, depending on how they look. I don't know. I kind of like Tucker for that team, given Denver's offense is really clicking looks great. How can we punch up their defense a little bit? Maybe Tucker is a guy who can help do that.

I think it's a great point. I guess my only concern is that they're trying this with Jamichael and to a certain extent with Paul Millsup, that role should be satisfied by those guys, right? Yeah. And so is it a good distribution of resources they keep trying there,

or is it better considering their expectations to just go and make sure that they have that guy, the guy that they're after, which is Tucker? I think he would be great for the team. Well, I think you do hit on it there, which is the problem for them is they're kind of already on the verge of too many guys both in the front court

pretty much at every position. They have lots of players who could be worthy of NBA minutes. I'm glad you brought up Millsap too because I think he's been pretty solid this season at a time when a lot of people were worried about his age and him dropping off. So I would see Tucker Moore's insurance

if on the nights where green doesn't really have it, where Millsap isn't quite the level you would want him to be or as athletic as you need him to be, then maybe Tucker could be an option for you there. But then you really are putting Michael Malone in a position where he has to juggle

on a nightly basis a team that already is having issues getting everyone the minutes they need. And maybe the answer, you know, Michael Porter Jr. may need to play X minutes of power forward anyway. So maybe this is a moot point. Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Just putting a defensive grinder in Mike Malone's hands means that Porter would probably just never see the floor ever again. I realize that a lot of the fake trades I end up coming up with are the kind that create the fan base infuriating coach plays veteran defensive player over exciting young player scenario. Well, yeah, I mean, that's a thing all fan bases face around these times.

All the favorites get past side for PJ Dozier. Let's talk about another team who unfortunately does not have the same expectations nor the success of the Denver Nuggets. The New Orleans Pelicans not looking good. Last night they lose to the Sacramento Kings in a game in which it felt like every play that they ran in the first couple of minutes, when Jackson Hayes was on the floor was designed completely to expose how bad he is at defense. I'm sure Alvin Gentry, the now assistant coach to Luke Walton in Sacramento had nothing to do with that. But they have some issues, and I don't know how this gets solved immediately, and all of a sudden you're seeing both Lanzabal and J.J. Reddick on the trade market. Their names are probably the most prominent ones you're actually seeing outside from Bradley Beal,

who we'll get to a little bit later. But first of all, let's talk Pelicans just briefly. How bad is this? They're a team I have a hard time having a lot of faith in to execute on a night-to-night basis, which is something I didn't expect to say of a Stan Van Gundy team at this point of the season. I don't know why they are as bad as they are. And that concerns me. When there's something tangible, you can point to, obviously there's the spacing,

issues. There's that element of it. But their defense should really be better than it is. You know, and I don't know why it's not better even than the sum of its parts or even equal to the sum of its parts because there's good defensive personnel here. Like if your back court is Eric Bledso and Lonzo Ball, you should be able to defend. If you have Stephen Adams on the court, you should be able to defend. I realize Zion Williamson has the limitations he does, but he's at least big and agile and can be a force for you on the glass. He can contribute to a defense. Brandon Ingram has long has shown himself to be a very suffocating defender when he wants to be like what what is this team that they can't pull it together on that side of the ball i think the sad truth that is that a lot

of the issues stem from zion and i don't think a lot of people are willing to admit it right now but he looks awful like i get that he's had some injury concerns and the weight and all this other stuff but i was told that he would be just like a destructive defensive force in addition to all this brilliant playmaking and just like jump out of the gym athleticism. And so far he looks lost a lot of the time. And while he's not Jackson Hayes level, like it's been pretty bad. And the thing that I think a lot of people point to in order to get a little bit more

offensive juice on the floor is say, hey, let's go with Zion at the five, right? That's a very popular belief that that needs to be the solution for this team. And I think maybe down the road, maybe as like a change of pace, death lineup sort of thing, yeah, I think it could be incredible, quite frankly. but right now he looks lost and if you look at the minutes from last night when they tried it,

they were completely blitzed by a King's team that's like, fine, you know? The Zion at the Five conversation, whenever that's brought up as kind of a solution to unlocking who the Pelicans are or what they should be, I'm always wondering that very thing. Who's playing the four for them

that is going to anchor this defense in a meaningful way if Zion is at the Five? And if not, are we just conceding that the Pelicans are going to be bad on that side of the ball and assuming their offense can overwhelm people, which I think it well could was Zion up the five. He has that kind of magnetic power, that kind of gravity.

He's that mobile. He can overwhelm people at that position. But I think in terms of what you're looking for long term to make the Pelicans a playoff team and a contender, the road doesn't seem to be through that for me. It's more through how do we find another big he can play with, who can give you some of what you need defensively and also play off of him in some way,

which Stephen Adams, I think, has been better at that than is widely discussed and assumed just because he's an interior player he gets talked about in a certain way. I think that's been fine. Pelicans have been fine offensively with him on the floor, but they need to be better than fine, especially given where their defense is right now.

Everybody wanted to make fun of Miles Turner in the offseason, man. But how much better would the Pelicans be with the 3 and D5 like Miles Turner next to Zion Williamson? I wonder about Zion too. We've been talking recently, you know, Sirot, so he had this great article about

the Draymond generation over at Yahoo and these players who have found a way into the league and into rotations who are undersized by traditional standards but are strong, who are wider, how they've been able to find success. I do wonder how many bigs have been oversold or overcast based on Draymon being an undersized defensive player of the year. And that idea that you mentioned of Zion being, you know, pegged as a guy who could be a difference maker defensively because of his beat because of who he could be theoretically versus the reality is that most of these undersized bigs who come into the league are not very good defenders. They're like the straight up liabilities for their teams for every Draymond or Grant Williams that you find, you're going to

find, you know, a dozen, half a dozen bigs who just really can't carry their weight. Yeah. And so what you have now is a Pelicans team and roster built to play kind of an Alvin Gentry style. A lot of the remnants of last year's team are still there, Ingram, Zion, etc. Lonzo, they're built to get up and down the floor, push the ball. But now you have a coach trying very hard to instill a defensive identity. And while I support that because long term, it's probably better for Zion, and in particular this entire franchise, because defense has been a concern for, God, who knows how long, it just seems like they're now trying to blend both.

and instead they have like a Ferrari slapped with mud tires and it just looked completely off there. And I just don't even understand why they're still at this point playing Bledsoe and Lonzo in the back court together. And this can bring us to Lonzo here because most of the time it just seems like because they're not playing with pace and because they're giving up shots on the other end,

made shots on the other end. Lonzo essentially is just becoming like the personal chauffeur for Brandon Ingram where he just walks the ball off, hands it off to or dumps it off to Ingram. and then just kind of floats into the background and that doesn't really do much because he can't do anything because no one really respects him out there

and he doesn't really get to the rim anymore and so I don't really know what to make of him I think long term my worry which is something that Charks wrote about on the site I believe last week or two weeks ago is that maybe the Pelicans are just no longer the team for him. So long term you mean the pairing of Lanzo and the Pelicans more so than long

Lonzo's prospects as a player himself. I guess we could talk about both, but I think the former jumps out to me is the first problem. Well, it's not a good sign that as these Lonzo trade rumors have started to come up, I've been trying to think about what spots make sense for him. It's kind of hard to imagine Lonzo

as a team's long-term solution. I think he makes sense for some of these clubs that are looking to get a little more competent in their back court, balance out, get a little more defense, just get a little more intuitive. There are a lot of kind of combo guards floating around who are running offenses and it's not really

working, so I think he could work as a replacement or a guy who can play with those players. But if he's functionally a two guard for the Pelicans, which is what he is, it's not going to work. And, you know, Eric Bledso is not really a long-term piece here either, I don't imagine. So, you know, maybe they see a vision of a different kind

of team where he can do a little bit more of that stuff, but it's not working as it is. And I do wonder about the trademark market for him, how open that's really going to be. You can't even sell Lonzo really as a point guard of the future for a team so much as the point guard for now that's going to get us to the next step to then maybe trade him later. Our friend Big Wads last night on Twitter suggested that Lonzo's future is as a rich man's Alex Caruso.

What does that even mean? Well, I think it's the type of thing that sounds absurd on the surface, but I don't think it's totally off because the thing that jumped off the page with Lonzo when he first got to the league is because he's so intuitive, he's a ball mover, he's the type of player, everyone would say that you want to play with, right? He's unselfish. Everything just kind of works a little bit better. The hit ahead passes, etc. I don't know if there's much more that's come since then. The defense is one thing, right? He could probably be an elite defender, but like, I don't know what you do with an elite pass first point guard in today's league.

First of all, you need four other shooters on the floor. The Pelicans do not have that. So maybe you could find a solution where there's just like overloaded with shooting and he can come in and do that. But I still don't even think he would work as a first team offense. I think you're probably looking at a guy who probably need to come in off the bench and run that, which is probably why you're hearing so much about the warriors in the rumor real right now.

I don't know the veracity of those rumors. but maybe there's a sort of situation where he doesn't start for the Warriors, but he comes off the bench, and he can't be any worse of a three-point shooter than Kelly Ubre. And so he fits a little bit better there. That is the popular rumor right now, Ubrey for Lanzo. Well, one thing you could do with the past first point guard is send him to the other rumor destination,

which is the Chicago Bulls. Credit to Brian Windhorst for bringing this up, but that's one place I actually really like the idea of Lanzo landing. And I don't know what the package would look. like in terms of what the pelicans would want from them. But if you if you're Chicago, who I think has just had a hard time getting organized on the court really for a couple seasons running, and it's a credit to Zach Levine that he's playing some pretty stellar basketball in spite of that. But if you can get a point guard who can get the offense

into some basic motion, who can do some kind of fundamental things that a point guard is supposed to do, which Kobe White is not that guy yet, you know, maybe he will be eventually. But And Lonzo, to be fair, is not the ideal version of a floor general point guard. But as you were saying, he has basic kind of feel that a guy like White does not. And so I think he's a little bit ahead of the curve in terms of what the Bulls would need and the kind of team they could be right now if they just had a little bit more flow to their offense, which is what I think Lonzo brings you. Yeah, I guess the issue with trading for Lonzo is that you probably have to be committed long term to him. You have to see something in him to want to really move forward beyond this season because he's a restricted free agent this offseason.

And maybe the offers don't come. And all of a sudden, he's playing on the qualifying offer or something really small. Maybe you can get him on the cheap. But I think at the very least you have to go into it thinking that you're going to match on any of those offers. And if like a Kings or some other asshole team comes in and just throws a balloon payment at him, you're stuck in a situation where you gave up assets for him at the trade deadline. and now you have to pay him in addition to that. So I don't know.

And I guess the thing with the bulls here, I think it's a really good idea, but I do wonder, do you want to stunt the growth of a Kobe White or some of these other guys, put the ball in Lonzo's hand? I think that gets to the core of the issue for the Pelicans, which is whether we're talking about Lonzo

or we're talking about JJ Reddick. I don't know that either of these deals are deals that would move the Pelicans forward in some dramatic way. You know, you're kind of trading, your Uber example is a gray one. trading one set of problems for another, swapping out rotation players at different positions

who have their own huge caveats, maybe you're getting second round picks or something like that for these guys. I think you're more clearing space if you're in New Orleans than anything for some of the younger guards on their roster. And so I wouldn't even look at it as, you know, these teams having to give up necessarily that much

to get these guys, you know, not to say there won't be a semi-competitive market for them, but I just don't see it playing out in that kind of way. yeah you can look at it one of two ways you could say the pelicans made this issue for themselves by overstuffing their back court with guys like eric bledsoe uh and then going and trading for or excuse me for drafting kara lewis and and nikila alexander walker or you could say that they foresaw the future and that eventually these guys would be working their way into the rotation anyway it's just come a little bit sooner than they thought um and and maybe j j reddick is

the prime example of that a guy who at this point just isn't playing uh And you would think would find a home sooner than later. He does make a lot of money. He's at $13 million. And so some of the contenders that I think you're seeing floated around for him would be a tough fit. In particular, the Brooklyn Nets who have somehow gotten into these trade rumors. I assume that Reddick just wants to play closer to his home in York, which is why you're hearing, according to Shams and some other people, the Sixers Nets and Celtics as the primary destinations for him. Do any of those teams strike you as a clear fit for Redick?

Now 36 and clinging to his jump shot. I think the Sixers definitely would. They could really use one more shooter. But they're in the position where, you know, Reddick makes $13 million this season, which is just enough to be inconvenient for trade purposes, where you're having to, you know, put together three role players maybe on the Sixers roster just to take a swing at him. I don't know how interested the pelicans are in that sort of thing.

So I do wonder just from a mechanical standpoint how Philly would get into that conversation. Yeah, and the other part of it is do you sacrifice rotation minutes for guys like Tyrese Maxi for Ferkon Korkmaz? You know, I think somebody is going to get pushed out of that rotation. Matisse Thibel, when he is available to play. Now, on the other hand, maybe this is the year, maybe this is their best opportunity to win a title or at least make the final. and you're willing to make that trade off now and then get some of those guys minutes more next year or maybe you don't even want to play them in the playoffs,

but it would be a little fit. I think the Celtics are the cleanest fit, if only because they have this trade exception from the Gordon Hayward deal where they could just split that in half, absorb Reddx contract, and give the Pelicans something for their troubles, as opposed to just buying them out outright.

So they would make a lot of sense. But here's another team, I think is not really talked about, but is also in the general Atlantic Division New York metro area. The New York Knicks who,

I don't know if you know this, aren't shooting the three ball well these days, but they could certainly use someone like him. I wonder if they could break off a second round pick for Reddick, get him in there, and basically do what the Pelicans

probably thought they were getting with Reddick and him being some sort of like a shepherd for the young. guys. I think they'd be a pretty good match. And they fit the profile of a team that would want to trade for Reddick in the sense that, you know, if we're assuming that the Sixers, the Nets and the Celtics are Reddick's priorities where he would want to go. If you're one of those teams, I could see kind of sitting on your hands and seeing if he gets bought out because you know

he's interested in you. If you're the Knicks, I, you know, I would assume he's, they're probably his fourth choice in the greater metro area, you know, greater northeast. And so maybe you do take a swing at him. And same if you're some of these other teams that have shooting problems or could use a spot on the wing. You know, we talked about the Mavericks earlier today. You know, they could use another shooter. They're another team that's in a spot where I don't know

how they get the money together. You would have to really sell the Pelicans on like James Johnson or Dwight Powell or someone to make that work contractually speaking. Or what about the Raptors? A team that, you know, they have deeper problems offensively in terms of needing some shot creation, but maybe you can loosen things up on offense just by

replacing some DeAndre Bembri, Terence Davis, Malachi Flynn minutes with J.J. Redding minutes. Yeah. And the Raptors definitely love shooting three, so maybe they could just break the three-point barrier by getting another shooter in there. Let's do it. I mean, I think the Warriors would be another team that could have some interest in there. It's so wild to say that the Warriors need shooting. But still, man, they need it. And he could be a guy that they can plug in there. I think he makes a lot more sense as a buyout guy than trade guy. I think he's what we're circling. around. Yeah, we'll have to see if anyone can really, can really shake that tree hard enough to get reddick. I think it would, you know, the pelicans will want to get something for their trouble, as you mentioned, but I don't see, I don't see the bidding war getting that intense there. Okay. All right. Well, let's take a quick break, and then we will come back and talk about a player

who should elicit a very heated bidding war. All right. We're back, and we saved this one for the middle of the podcast. We wanted you to listen to our ramblings about the Dallas Mavericks and the New Orleans Pelicans in order to get to Bradley Beal. The topic de jour in the NBA, although not for Beal himself, just before we record this podcast, the athletic dropped a story, basically suggesting that Beale does not want out of D.C. And so far he has expressed, he wants to remain in Washington. I have two questions here. One, why isn't Beal saying this on the record? If he is, is so committed to the Wizards. Isn't that something that you could just do in a, like, a Zoom media scrum

and be like, hey, actually, I don't want to be traded. Like, this is cool. Stop asking me about this. He's done it before. And he's also going the opposite way and just, like, kind of groused and, like, grumbled. And everyone's like, oh, this isn't good. My second question is, how do you think he expressed that he wanted to remain in

Washington? Do you think it was like a series of blinks? Do you think it was, like, via modern dance where he just, like they could tell how enthused he was in the future of the Washington Wizards? I think he was probably investing in real estate around the greater metro area. You know, the housing market there is tough right now. But when you make Bradley Beal money, you can really dig in. Yeah.

So I get what this is driving toward, though, because the story goes on to say how immediately after signing the extension with the Wizards, people already were frustrated with Bill and thought that he was making the wrong decision, which turns out they were right, by the way. But if that is his choice, if he wants to be committed to D.C., what is different now than there was last season? Last season, there was no hope whatsoever. Wall was out already for the entire year, and they had already committed to a bit of a tear down in a new front office regime, or the current front office regime just rebelling against Ernie Kernfeld and unseeding him there. Here's the question I have down here for this one.

If you were running the Wizards, what would you do with Bradley Beal ahead of the deadline? I would hold on to him as long as you possibly can. And I'm kind of skeptical we'll see Beale traded because the Wizards have had, you know, they've probably been hit as hard as anybody by COVID absences and contact tracing. They haven't really had a chance to play out, you know, string games together, not that they have this super promising team or anything, but I think they have enough to be competitive and exciting if they get some games under their belts, enough to talk themselves into

something. and if you have a player like Bradley Beal, the reality is lots of franchises will go a decade without seeing a player like that again. And I think given the way the NBA trade market works now where Anthony Davis requests to trade basically causes shots of the Lakers, the Pelicans got plenty for him.

James Hardin wants to trade, wants to go specifically to the Nets reportedly. The Rockets still get a lot for him. Until Beale says he's ready to go, I think the league has kind of shown us that that's not really going to affect your potential return for a star player if they do request a trade,

it's not going to affect your leverage. Bradley Beale is still highly, highly coveted in the NBA. He fits almost anywhere. He is the exact kind of player you would want to start a bidding war between contenders or want to be contenders. So until he says he's ready to go,

I'm rolling with Bradley Beale. Part of me wonders if they already missed the window where they could have really maximize the trade return, where they could have really gotten those teams into a bidding more like you're suggesting, because I think as this goes along and as Beal becomes more and more frustrated, which even though the story suggests otherwise, there have been a lot of bad body language out there. There was a game against the Nets over the weekend where before

they just completely came back and won that in the last second, Beal was just kind of floating, just like making a big show of things on the bench about he's unhappy with how things are going. I just think if this gets to the point where they're just completely out of the playoff mix or even the play in mix, I wonder if Beal starts the voice's concerns. And at that point, your options are going to be limited because if he's going to say, like, hey, I'm only going to resign with certain teams, now your pool of teams is starting to dwindle. And I wonder how many teams are going to be willing to take a risk rocket style that they'll be able to convince him to stay. Maybe there will be. Maybe like you say,

that he's just too good and you take that risk. If you're the Denver Nuggets, for instance, you just say, like, hey, we'll take the two years or a year and a half remaining on his contract and hope that he resigns with us. But I don't know. It seems like that is the inevitability, and I worry that they miss the window

to take the most advantage of that. If you do decide that you're open to trading him, what kind of route would you be looking for the Wizards to take? Would you kind of prefer the ready-made star in return? maybe that's like a Ben Simmons type model or would you lean more towards a starter kit of younger prospects, draft picks, you know, you have Denia

already, you're kind of building a longer term thing here. I always lean toward the bird in the hand, but it just doesn't seem like that's where most GMs go. They want the flexibility of all these future picks, if only because like maybe they could pick their own guy and hope that like they get

the top three pick to choose their next star of the future as opposed to just inheriting Ben Simmons at all of his warts and all of the previous just player development that they didn't oversee. I don't know. I have mixed returns on that just because, like, on the one hand, a lot of picks provides infinite possibilities, but on the other hand, there's no sure thing.

And Zach Kram, I think, did the story for us last year, maybe two years ago about how a lot of the picks in recent years that have been traded for stars don't end up as high as you think. The one I'm thinking about is the Chris Paul pick, the New Orleans Hornets pick that they got from, was it the wolves that the clippers had been coveting and ultimately became like the signature piece of that trade and it just became Austin Rivers,

which is like a top 10 pick. Who was the European combo guard who got traded from the clippers to the wolves that was the source of that pick? I'm blanking on his name. Marco, yes, thank you, Marco Yarch. Oh, what memories of that particular pick and the way it was passed around?

Yeah, those are my favorite. like what ifs when you're mining through just like the real GM pages or like basketball reference like the Otis Thorpe I believe was the source of the Memphis Grizzlies first round pick that ultimately went to

the Pistons for that became Darko Milichich Wow yeah somebody out there is still kicking on a pick that was traded for like Quinn Richardson once on that day he was traded or that week he was traded ten times in free agency right

Luke Ridenauer who went around the world rolled in the span of four days of an offseason. Yeah. So this actually is a good transition to our next question here. So if we're looking at the landscape, the potential suitors for Beal, I think one of the questions a lot of teams are going to ask themselves basically is like, which of our young players are we willing to part with? And so I love this exercise because it's almost like a de facto power ranking of like your guys and like, where is the choke point we were willing to say like, this is too much. This is not enough. It's weird how ultimately, front offices become

bloggers where they're just having the same mental exercises as we all have. So I have a couple guys down here and I want to go through them just see where the limit is, I guess, for some of these teams. And let's start with the Celtics. And the obvious one is Jalen Brown.

Is he untouchable or is he someone you're willing to entertain for a deal? I think he's pretty close to untouchable. He's close and enough to a Bradley Beal level and Bradley Beal is a sensational player

I think over these last two years has just been pretty incredible offensively and we know he can be a competitive defender if you give him a team to work with but Jalen what he's shown this season as a playmaker as a decision maker just as a pure shooter and shot creator already for a guy who has that kind of length

and positional versatility you'd have to show me something pretty special to give that up. Okay, this was my test for you because I think that Brown is untouchable. Okay. So I passed? No, you fail.

No, but this is why I like you, Rob. You just like, you consider all of the options on the table. You're not a hard no. You're not a whole hard yes. You're really thoughtful about these things. I try. I would be a hard no on Brown. I just think he's too good.

He's already scoring at an elite level. And as we documented in the last podcast, he's just already just grown by leaps and bounds in the past three years. And all of a sudden is probably one of the best young two-way players. in the game. And I just don't know if those guys are growing on trees. I like Beal, but you're probably giving a Brown plus a lot of stuff. To me, that that's not balanced. Well, especially at a time when wings of his size are particularly valuable, you know, in doing these kinds of trade exercises, I was looking at teams like the Jazz, for example, like how do we get the Jazz, the big wing they

need to really, you know, vault into top-tier contending status? Those guys just aren't out there. You know, the guys who fill a Jalen Brown type spot, and he's that and more, because he's also a star in addition to being, you know, a really strong positional defender at the, you know, three, four, two, whatever you need him to do, really. I would not be in the business of selling on those types of players right now. All right.

So the Sixers, Ben Simmons. For Beale specifically or just conceptually in general? I guess conceptually. I would be willing to trade Ben Simmons if I were the Sixers, but it better be good. I would say I'm probably on the higher end of the Ben Simmons approval ratings slash confidence levels. I just think he's a sensational talent. And especially for Philly, I think if you give him up, unless you're getting a very confident playmaker specifically, you're looking at that lineup now, which is probably Seth Curry at point. we'll say Bradley Beal for the sake of

for the sake of argument at the two who can do plenty of handling, great on-ball player in his own right, but then Danny Green, Tobias Harris, Joelle and Bede, that's not a team that is moving the ball super well. I think they can,

they'll make the extra pass, they'll do that kind of functional stuff. But Ben Simmons is the piece that kind of elevates them in transition, even in some of their half-court stuff, just in terms of connecting dots. I would be very hesitant to give that up unless it's just a knockout.

kind of offer. Hmm. It's interesting because I would definitely do it if I was the Wizards. Like Simmons is the type of player that one you would want, just like the transformative sort of young sort of player. But also I think he would fit in there as long as Russell Westbrook was told to go home and just like hang out for a while or at the very least was just like mitigated in the rotation. And maybe he might do that himself just by sure dent of his injuries that he's encountered over the past couple years. but like Simmons with shooters

our guy Davos Bertans the Isaac Bangers of the world I think it works you have the Ruiz and the Denny Hachamuras who could run with him up and down the floor that is a team built to play

Pace and Space with Simmons as the orchestrator and that is the team that I've always wanted for Ben Simmons I just want to see him in the open floor doing what he does and that's probably his best opportunity to do so

I'm surprised though that you're so down on the Bradley Biel Sixers experience You don't think that he would raise the ceiling from where they are now? I think he could do a lot to help them. It's just when you're talking about maneuvering at a playoff level for your offense. The Sixers have been an interesting case this year because they haven't been that successful offensively against the better defenses that they've faced.

So they clearly have some room to grow there. They need to become a more sophisticated offensive team in terms of how they're navigating those things. I think Bradley Beale gets you some of that. Great offball player, you know, great pick and roll player. you know, great pick and roll player has that, that versatility to his game. I don't know. I just think there is something to be said about having, you know, if you have a team that doesn't have any kind of next level playmaking on it, I get worried about those teams in the playoffs just from a problem solving perspective. Well, let's talk about another team here that we talked about, perhaps

doesn't have that at the moment. The Denver Nuggets, how do you feel about Michael Porter Jr.? Is he untouchable or maybe something a little bit below that? I would say something below that. This might be where, you know, with John Sharks off this podcast today, we can really get into the truth about Michael Porter Jr., which is, I think it is a matter of time with the Nuggets. You know, I don't see that long-term trio of him and Marianne Yokic being the kind of thing where everyone is sufficiently happy with their roles

and the touches and their involvement in the offense. Like there is a straining point there. How far ahead of that you want to get is, you know, an open question. I think the market for Porter is going to be robust if the Nuggets ever decide to explore that stuff more deeply. But for me personally, I see the appeal of him as a shock creator, his height, guys that are that tall who shoot that well. You don't want to be jumping ship on that necessarily. But I kind of like where they are philosophically as a team with or without him. And if you can get good pieces in return for a player like that, whether it's kind of one guy or multiple role,

guys or whatever that looks like, I'm open to it. So there's a young star on Denver who I think they should be willing to part with. I do not think it's Michael Porter Jr. Why would the Nuggets trade Michael Porter Jr., a 20-something who's still coming into his own, who, as you just outlined, has the potential to be just like a scintillating offensive player, that KD-style shoot over the top of everybody sort of player, instead of Jamal Murray, who, dear God, cannot be good for an entire month. Like, his bubble play was absolutely unbelievable.

He was just, like, better than I've ever seen him play. He was on another level. We assumed he was ready for this big leap. And all of a sudden, we're back into the regular season as the same old Jamal Murray who, like, yeah, he plays well offensively, but the defensive concerns are there. Also, game to game, I'm not really sure what I'm getting for him. and I think it's actually an easier fit

to just move Beal into the Murray role and keep Porter Jr. and Yokic. And I think that is a much more interesting team than the flip side of going with Murray, Beal, and Yokic. I mean, do you see Porter being comfortable with that? When we're talking about years down the light, you know, two years from now,

is Michael Porter Jr. cool with being the third guy behind Beal and Yokic or Murray? and Yokic, whatever the permutation is. Probably not, but it's probably a little bit easier of a fit with Beal than perhaps with Murray there. I don't know, I feel like you could run Beal

off of screens a little bit more. I think he's shown more of a willingness to play an ancillary game, or at the very least, he's probably a bit more versatile than Murray, where you could do a lot of more interesting stuff with him that still focuses your, your shots on Porter with Yokic being the orchestrator. I don't know how long that would work for.

I think Porter's probably destined to end up in Orlando or something as just like the primary superstar. But I don't know. I think it could work. Can we all just get along, you know? Michael Porter Jr. does have a very Florida energy about him. I can't put my finger on it exactly, but there's something about him that's very Florida. I can tell you exactly what it is.

Let's be clear, though, on the Beal Murray thing, which is everything you love about the Jamal Murray, Nicola Yokic two-man game, Brad Beale would be amazing at that stuff. Like the handoffs, his ability, you know, Beal's ability to read those situations. You know, it would take time to develop the level of chemistry that Murray and Yokic have. But I'm all for that piece of it. You know, if you can make that combination happen, that's some really stellar stuff. But I'm more concerned just about temperamentally, personality, you know, What is this team going to look like from a locker room perspective long term with Michael Porter Jr. as a key piece of it? That's kind of what I'm more concerned about.

Okay. Well, let's talk about a player who just endeared himself to the Miami Heat locker room immediately, became best buds with Jimmy Butler in the bubble. That is Tyler Hero. For Miami, is he amongst the untouchable? Are you more willing to part with Soldier Tea over here? I am perfectly willing to part with Tyler here. I'm not looking to do it, but it probably would surprise no one

who has listened to this podcast over the last, you know, in recent months where I've expressed some Tyler Hero skepticism in terms of him being, you know, an all-star, all-MBA, foundational franchise kind of player. I get how the heat feel about him. They're certainly entitled to their opinion and that carries a lot of weight

given that organization. They tend to pick them pretty well. But there's something about Hero where I'm excited to have them on my team, happy to be building around him for now, but I'm not staking my future to the Tyler Hero experience. So where do you draw the line if you're the heat?

So they asked for Tyler Hero, and then they ask for Duncan Robinson. Are you saying no now? I think it depends on what you're getting back. I'm not opposed to trading both of those guys in the right deal, but then you need to be basically rebuilding a good chunk of your wing rotation.

So unless you're getting back some... So let's just say it's Beale. Just Beal alone? Yeah, let's just say it's Beal alone. I haven't worked out the cat map for that yet, but like it's Hero, it's Duncan. What else makes you just say no? It's precious Ochoa, the internet's favorite, big man. I think as long as you're keeping, you know, if you have Jimmy and Bam and you're holding

on to those guys and you have enough to field a reasonably competitive rotation otherwise, and you're getting Beal, that's a really compelling group. Max Struss, are you giving up on him? KZakawa. the future Tyler Hero. As he's known around those parts. I don't know. It's just,

this has always struck me as a little bit weird that the heat would would pearl clutch Tyler Hero so much. I get it. He's a young guy that they found and all of a sudden he looks like a fringe All-Star at the very least. But to me,

like now is the time to really strike here. And I don't know. I was all in on them going for Hardin and I'm definitely all in on them going for Beal if this is the type of, of package that they've been willing to accept. I mean, they're among these teams that could make

those kinds of trades. They're interesting for exactly the reasons we outlined up top, which is at their heart, we know what this team can be, and they have a lot of reason for confidence that they can get back to a pretty high level, but at the same time, they have so many pieces that would intrigue so many other teams.

They can move in so many different directions. And most importantly, they have two stars in Bam and Jimmy who can play with all kinds of different sorts of players and different kinds of roles. There's a lot of different outcomes here that could be really impressive for the heat, including potentially the one they're currently on if everything kind of clicks back

into place. I like this fit for both teams, the more I go along here. Let's go to another team that we talked about in the Hardin Derby. The Raptors in Pascal Seacum, I'm an instant. Get rid of them. Trade them now. Get rid of them. That seems very strong. Well, I mean,

get something back for them, but I don't know. I'm not on the Seacom Banwagon. I mean, I'm on the Seacom Banwagon. insofar as he is your second or third best player. Him as your lead offensive option, him having to really drive a lot of what you do. I like him more as a change of pace, chaos agent, pick and roll, finisher and distributor.

All those things are great. Love what he can do for you defensively. It's just if he's your guy, it really puts a hard cap on what you can be as a team, I think. Yeah. Chris Bruchet needs more shots, so let's get Siakamata there and, and lean into the Boucher era. Your real agenda has been laid there here.

The Warriors and James Wiseman. This is a tricky one. I'm coming around on wait and see. The ticking clock of Steph Curry's career is tough. But if anything, I think Clay Thompson's injury, as it's kind of metastasized and we're realizing what that means and how long it's going to take him to get back and to be who he was, I'm holding on to this piece that could be the foundation of your future,

that could really extend what you're doing here. You know, Steph isn't always going to be Steph, but, you know, unless you're really reshaping what this team looks like, I'm not really seeing how they get to the level of a Lakers or a Clippers in the very short term just by flipping James Wiseman and this wolf's pick or, you know, some combination thereof

for pieces or for even other stars. Like this team has more work to do beyond just that. I think Warriors of fans are getting a little antsy. I think one, it's because they're used to just being on top at this point. They're an excitable bunch in general, I will say. I love the Warriors fans. I think they have some of the more entertaining fans out there. I also have started to catch wind of some strays from Wiseman,

in part because of the success of Lamello Ball. And I've already seen some, like, if Lamella was better than Wiseman, than what we're doing here? Sort of commentary out there. I don't think we're far away from that. becoming a thing. Because Lamello started last night, in part because of injuries, but just looks like the player

we wanted Lanzo Ball to be, quite frankly, and I am very high on his future. Why do we get into this best player available versus fit question with the draft so often when the practical realities of those things are out? If you're the Golden State Warriors, a team that has been to the finals year after year that has Curry, that, you know, ideally would have Clay Thompson, that has Dream on Green, that has these hopes of being a high-level contending team, on what planet are you taking the best player available, even if you think Lamello is that guy, a guy who could be an amazing talent, on what planet are you taking that player, knowing well that you may not be able to maximize

what he does well, and when you have a big on the board who could be exactly the kind of thing you've been secretly hoping you could find this whole time in Wiseman, even, you know, it's going to take Wiseman time to become the player he hopefully will be, to be able to make the strides he needs to just feel for the game. He has a long way to go. I just don't see why this would be a practical consideration for a team like the Warriors to take Lamello given where they were. I mean, for Bob Myers' sake, you better hope that Wiseman is the player you just outlined. Sure. Because everything we heard coming out of that draft was we would have taken Wiseman regardless. It wasn't necessarily a fit thing. It was because we thought Wiseman was the best

prospect. And maybe he is down the road. I have no idea. I don't really scout the draft. But I mean, of course it's a fifth thing. Like, they're not going to draft Lamello to come be Andre Aguadala for them. It just doesn't make sense for anyone to do that. Well, right now, they drafted him to be Kavan Looney. Well, to be Kavanaughn, really. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. I don't know. I think it's an interesting decision. Because I don't, if they have this idea of becoming the spurs and this team that like extends into a new era via the draft and and whatnot. Like it would have been interesting. Like I don't know why you wouldn't just take Lamello and just have him be the caretaker. We were just talking about Lanzo as being the like off the bench point guard. Why can't

better Lanzo stretched out Lanzo and Lamele and ball be that guy? I mean, he could. If you really think the problem with the Warriors right now is that they need like a Brad Wanamaker upgrade, then sure. Yeah, I guess I guess you could draft Lanzo to be your backup point card. It's just like a really weird approach for a team that's so long, has cycled through off the street, big man, and like second round picks, late first round picks at the center position because they had the strength of the perimeter players, right? So it does run contrary to what they had previously done. Well, when you know that in the minutes that matter, you're going to play

Draymond at the five anyway, then it's okay to rely on those kinds of players. I think we've seen some signaling from the warriors that they don't want to be as reliant on that kind of strategy. Yeah. Well, we'll see. They also have this wolf's pick that all of a sudden might not even convey next year because the wolves are that bad, but if it does, good Lord, they're going to get another good player

in there. Let me say, as someone who's been catching up on a lot of wolves basketball lately, it is not a pleasant experience watching that team. It's horrible. I almost wanted to talk about them in this context, like how can we fix the wolves? How can we get them some help? How can we get them a real power forward?

And I know they haven't had Carl Anthony towns, which makes them pretty turkey to evaluate. But let me say, it also certainly doesn't make them very pleasant to watch. We'll put a pin in that because I want to get to that in our next segment, but I want to wrap this one up really quickly. Last team on the board here, the Utah Jazz, Donovan Mitchell.

Is this a real question? It's a real question. I'm holding on Donovan Mitchell. Give me your Donovan Mitchell stock. I mean, clearly things are going well right now. I am not looking. to trade him? This is quite a swerve from you. And by a swerve, I mean a swerve directly

into head-on traffic. Well, yeah, no. Many an angry jazz fans, if they made it this far in the podcast, will be sliding into my DM shortly. But what if it's Beal for Donovan straight up? This is where I think it gets, at the very least, a little interesting. I don't think you

do it just because Mitchell is so ingrained into everything that team does now. And Lord knows, they don't need to fix anything because all of a sudden they're flirting with being the best team in the NBA. But if I'm looking at this on paper, and I know that Beale wants to stay long term,

is Mitchell on a max contract a better value than Beal on a max contract? And I got to say, I'm going to lean Beal in those situations. I agree on paper. It's a compelling idea in terms of trading those two

guys out and seeing how things go. In flesh and blood terms, I think that Donovan Mitchell is one of these players who means more to his team than that. As a symbol of moving on, turning the page after Gordon Hayward, in terms of how quickly he kind of grabbed the reins of that organization, his leadership style,

there's something there that's a little more deeply ingrained than skill set and free throw rate and whatever you consider Donovan Mitchell's limitations to be versus someone like Bradley Beale, who, again, is another great player who I think the jazz could be very well in his, do very well in his spot. But there's something a little more there, I think. think than just swapping him out for another star. I get that.

But on the other hand, I'm looking at Donovan Mitchell. Does your dark heart get that? No. And I also think that this is why you pay GMs to not be swayed by that sort of public opinion. And especially now that they have a new owner, he doesn't remember the good old days of Donovan Mitchell. He wasn't sitting there in Vivin whatever arena, just like during those playoff series.

But I'm not saying this is some kind of trick. I'm not saying this is an illusion that Donovan... This is a ruse Donovan Mitchell has created to fool people and to think he's more important than he is. I think he is tangibly more important than an equivalent player in terms of talent to the jazz. I think he has an institutional value there. All I'll say is that Donovan Mitchell is going to be making

$28 million next season, and it only goes up from there. And all of a sudden, I think people are going to expect him to play up to the max contract. level and I feel like he can do it, but are you sure he can do it? And if you aren't sure, could you get somebody else into that position, give the wizard someone who's under contract long term for four or five years, don't have to deal with the situation for another couple of years. Does not satisfy both teams? I don't know. I think it's a really interesting idea.

What are you sure of these days, Justin? Like, what do you have absolute certainty in? Absolutely nothing. And, oh, just briefly, as, we circle back to the Bradley Beale Trade Report, because everything we're doing is Beal-related. I have to say the lead to the athletic story about this is among my all-time favorites. Can I read it to you real quickly? Please do. Bradley Beal is frustrated, but not because he'd rather be somewhere else. It's a fluid world, especially in the middle of an unpredictable pandemic and difficult economic times.

But for now, the Wizards and Beal stand in the same place they did entering the season. So, ladies and gentlemen, your family might be suffering from the pandemic, but Bradley Beal is not suffering. I like to think that he's just like us. He's just going to the grocery store like we are, suiting up, you know, hitting the Purell pretty hard. Dear God, just laying it on thick there. Okay, let's do quickly a little power ranking of our untouchables here. So number one, would you put Brown or Mitchell? I'd put Brown probably.

Okay. Mitchell second? Yeah. Or Simmons. That's a tough one. Not to open old rookie of the year wounds with those two. Right, goddamn, that was a long time ago. I don't know.

I'd be pretty split on those two. Okay. So we're going to like a 2A, 2B sort of situation? Let's do that. Then Porter Jr.? Or Wiseman? Porter Jr. Okay.

Then Wiseman, then maybe Seacom and Hero? Yeah, I think that makes sense. Okay. of Brown, Simmons Mitchell, Porter Jr., Wiseman Seacom, Harold. That is our untouchable rankings. Apologies to Pascal Seacom and the Raptors, but like this is where you go

when it's like these guys like Porter have the potential to be a number one kind of offensive player versus Seacom. He is frustrating in... When you're good on offense. Yeah, is what happens. Yeah, that's where it is. It's just frustrating sometimes when you know

kind of exactly what a player is going to be. And maybe Seaccom surprises us and develops in some really intriguing way, but I feel like we have a pretty good grasp of who he is. The way he's developed is already amazing. He went from a nobody who was just thrown out there as like a change of pace defender for LeBron James into a goddamn All-Star.

This is fine enough. Just like accept that and let's move on. You overpaid him. It's fine. This is the player you want shipped out of town ASAP, the player with the amazing developmental trajectory. Yeah, it was great for a time. and now he makes way too much money for that skill set. You're a cold man, Justin.

It's true. All right. Speaking of that, let's make one move that we want to see happen here. Bigger, small. Who's getting shipped out of time? Who is your cold heart just moving to another team in the midst of this pandemic?

I'm going to a media favorite, which is let's trade one of the magic guys to some other team that could use them. And this is kind of a new spin on that familiar class. which is I kind of want to see Aaron Gordon on this weirdo chip on their shoulder,

Houston Rockets team. Interesting. If we're finding new homes for PJ Tucker, I think you're also looking for potential replacements at that four spot, especially if you can get someone who's a little more dynamic offensively and give you a little,

you know, potentially playmaking, which it's going to be tough in the short term given that Aaron Gordon is out for four to six weeks because his ankle looks like a cantalope. But once he does get back, sure. I like the potential fit there alongside, you know, the Oladipo, Wall, Christian Wood, developing core.

And this kind of banks on the idea that, you know, the Rockets pre James Hardin, and that was under different ownership, but was really the kind of team that wanted to sustain in the middle, that wanted to be competitive, that wasn't going to totally bottom out. I have no reason to think that's changing under Tillman Fortita, who seems like the kind of guy who would keep a competitive team, rather than try to really strip this thing for parts. I think he would want the shorter way back to being in the mix again. So if you could put together PJ Tucker, you probably throw Dante X-M in there for salary reasons.

And then this would probably have to be a three-way trade where Tucker goes to some contender. The magic are getting some combinations of picks now that the rockets are basically stakeholders in the future of the Brooklyn Nets. So you part with some of that draft equity and get a player in Gordon who could be an exciting piece who could invigorate that position.

for you. Rob told me before this podcast that I wasn't allowed to make any stock metaphors. No reference to game stock or anything. You're really pushing right now. A lot of stonks jokes just pinging around my head right now. We have John on production today. John, if Justin makes one more GameStop reference, I need you to eject him from this podcast. I love the idea of just getting all of the fringe All-Stars who we don't know what the

hell to do with and putting them in Houston. This is what I'm saying. I don't know what the future holds for the Houston Rockets, but they just have all these guys. And for some reason, it's kind of working. They've been very good defensively. You're telling me, like, Wall, Oladipo, J. Sean Tate, Aaron Gordon, Christian Wood.

You got Eric Gordon, DeMarcus cousins, Daniel House, Sterling Brown coming off the bench. That's a real basketball team. And a real basketball team more quickly than you would expect a post James Hardin team to be. I don't hate it. I guess the question is, where are we on Aaron Gordon right now? Because he's gone everywhere from fringe All-Star,

face of the franchise in Orlando, to, I don't know what the hell he is anymore. He can't shoot. Dear God, we have too many four or fives on this team. I mean, thank you for making my case as a guy who has been counted out who would fit the mentality of this team so well. What you've just described as every other member of the Houston Rockets. Sure. Sure.

That's a good point. Well, this is a good segue. Because I also have, and here in Gordon trade for you. Oh, okay. I feel like everyone wants the magic to do something. They've had this clear problem for so long, and yet they're like, nah. We'll just, like, import Markle Fultz to make sense of our four center lineups. Well, this year, more than any, I think the universe is kind of sending them a sign.

Like, if you're not going to change this, we're just... the basketball gods are going to take every player you have off the floor. So this also brings me back to the Minnesota Timberwolves. So I know that they've had issues here. Clearly, Carl Towns has faced a lot over the span of the past year. I feel like every time I look up, there's something bad happening to Carl Towns. And I saw the other day, like, he was in some sort of accident over the off season or something like that. In addition to all the COVID stuff, it's like, he's had a bad.

to run here. And so I have a lot of sympathy for him and like obviously for the team not having an all-star player, one of the best big men in the league is going to affect what happens on the court here. But where did DeAngelo Russell go? Because Malik Beasley has been like the offensive identity for this team a lot of the time. And I'm just like, Russell is at the very least supposed to just like rack up oodles of points and just be that guy who's willing to like take all these ridiculous shots, yada, yada, and the passing. He's a brilliant playmaker when he wants to be. That's the thing with him for me watching him this season and watching the wolves when he's

been out there is there's no question that Russell can see passes that other players can't. He has the vision. He has that element of feel, but he might be the best passer in the league who isn't actually making anybody better. I don't know how that happens, but that's kind of where he is and where the wolves are. Yeah, I'm actually a Russell fan. I've always been a supporter. I always seen the talent and just thought that if he could be like 15% less boneheaded,

like he would be a really great player. I did not expect this corner for you, I got to say. I've always been a fan. I guess because I saw the talent going into the Lakers draft pick. And I was just like, oh, this guy, you know, he just has it. And then all of a sudden you're like, oh, no, he doesn't have it because he's Daniel Russell. Actually, now that I'm circling back to it, as someone who also has ICE and his veins. This actually is a pairing that makes sense. It's true. But I don't know. I don't know if

it's injury related. That's something that's been percolated in the background where he's had some scratches because of that. So I don't know what is going on. But long term, I think they have an issue regardless because Anthony Edwards and he, I don't know how long you can work with a backcourt of Edwards, Russell, Beasley, Culver is there somewhere somehow. Josh Akogi. There's just a lot of guys out there, and I do wonder if it's in the best interest to move on for them. The Orlando Magic, a team who is in need of a point guard and need of some offense.

I wonder if you would trade DeAngelo Russell for Aaron Gordon and Mo Bamba. Another guy who is just floating in the wind somewhere, never to be seen, just

has Ken Birch's face on his dartboard and he flings things at it every night. How do you feel that one. I was wondering how you were going to build up to a trade that would make sense that would create the trio of towns when he returns and Russell and Gordon. I did not

expect Russell to be in this deal. No. I like, I mean, I like Russell for the magic potentially. He's the kind of player they could use. I don't really see this as getting the wolves anywhere that they need to go. But then again, I don't know what trade does. More than any other team, they perplexed me

in terms of what their way forward should look like because they've dug in so hard on getting DeAngelo Russell and what it took to get there. And that's, I mean, that Andrew Wiggins trade has not aged very well so far. Not that I was super high on Andrew Wiggins at the time, or even that trade at the time it was made, to be fair.

I thought, you know, it was kind of end up being a wash for both sides. But the Russell experience has not been good. But I think we need to remember the reason that he's there, which is that Carl Towns wants him to be there. And so long as you're invested in Carl Towns, I think Russell's kind of off the table. Yeah, I don't think you're, you could do it in part because I think

Gerson Rosehouse would be fired immediately after it because of what he paid to get Russell to begin with. But I don't know. Like, I think even when towns comes back, they're going to have a lot of issues on the defensive end. I think they're probably in a longer term rebuild than they realize just because if you want

Edwards to be that guy, he's all of what, 19 years old and as he found out coming into the draft, like still learning how to play basketball. So they're going to have a lot of issues. And I do wonder if it doesn't make sense for them long term to load up on defenders around Carl Towns. If he could be that generational three-point shooting big men that we saw last season,

at least until he got hurt, I wonder if having like a destructive Swiss Army knife-style player like Aaron Gordon in there would make some sense. You give Mobamba a second chance to be his backup and lock down those minutes. See what you have there. Maybe reflop them. I don't know. It makes some sense.

It's probably not enough, but it's intriguing at the very least. I mean, I'm with you on the need for defense. defenders. It's, it is amazing how refreshing Nas Reid and Jaden McDaniels look when they are on the floor for that team, just given everything else that's happening around them. Like a little bit of length, their energy goes such a long way with the wolves right now. They're, they're just in such a bad way. Yeah.

Can't stunt Jared Fanderbilt's growth as well. Of course. All right. That's a good place to end it. For us, we will be back next week with Jonathan Charks back in the South. we hope. Until then, we will catch you next time.