The Ringer NBA Show - Analyzing the NBA Draft Through the Lens of the Finals | The Corner 3

Episode Date: May 31, 2019

We briefly go over Thursday night’s NBA Finals Game 1 and look forward to what adjustments the Warriors can make in the face of a 1-0 deficit (1:46). Then, we hand out awards to the draft prospects who most closely mirror the roles that Finals participants like Pascal Siakam and Andre Iguodala are filling for their teams (15:00). Hosts: Kevin O’Connor and Danny Chau Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer podcast network. I'm Liz Kelly. Fresh off of Talk the Thrones, the Ringer is introducing a new live Twitter after show covering season two of HBO's Big Little Lies. Immediately after each episode, the Ringer's Amanda Dobbins and ESPN's Mina Kimes will be going live to give their initial reactions and break down everything we saw in the episode. And to kick us off, there will be a special season two preview airing on Friday, June 7th at 12 p.m. Pacific. So join Amanda and Mina for Big Little Live every Sunday on Twitter. Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. This is the Quina 3. My name's Kevin O'Connor, and I am joined today by the Ringer's resident Raptors fan and our associate editor, Danny.

We took game one. We took game one. It's a great night, Danny. And we have a great show for you today as well, though. We are without Jonathan Charks. He is somewhere away. Unavailable today, unfortunately. But on today's show, he's in Hawaii, man.

Yeah. I didn't want to say. Here you go. Charks is in Hawaii. at a far better place right now. Danny's in Los Angeles. I am in Massachusetts for recording this at 1.30 p.m. Eastern. And today's show, we're going to have like a, during the NBA finals, we're going to have our NBA finals draft comparison awards show. We're going to compare draft prospects to players in the NBA finals. But first, Danny, obviously we have to discuss Toronto's

game one win over Golden State. The Raptors won 118 to 109 to take a 100 lead in the series. And all game long. Golden State struggled to score in the half court. How did Toronto do it, Bannie? The Rafter's defense is just completely locked in right now. And I was actually really, really impressed with what they did with Steph Curry. Sure, he dropped 34 points. Sure, you know, his stateline still looked very good, but he looked bothered. There wasn't a lot of support around him. The Warriors put a lot of lineups that didn't really make sense around him. A lot of guys who didn't make plays who were kind of just standing around him. around.

And I think a big part of that was just the Raptors kind of trusted what they had going for them in the regular season. So the one game that Steph Curry played against the Raptors in their two-game regular season series, he was hounded by Fred Van Fleet almost the entire game. And pretty much the same result occurred this time. So across those two games, 72 possessions, Fred Van Fleet was the primary defense. on Curry. And in those 72 possessions,

Curry shot two for 12 with Fred Van Vleet on him. And he was one for six in last night's game in 33 positions, so an identical shooting line for Steph. Yeah.

Fred Van Vleet has kind of emerged as this unlikely postseason championship potential run folk hero. I didn't expect it. Is he the Curry stopper? Fred Van Blyte.

If you think about it, stealing the title from his brother. Seth. Is he kind of the ideal Curry defender? Like, Van Bleet is a really, really smart off ball defender. He kind of has the strength to knock Curry off his spots. He has the low center of gravity to

work his way around screens and he has the vision and kind of like just the know-how to know where he's supposed to be. And plus he kind of beats Curry on the unlikeliness scale of him being a good defender. Like, the dude is 5'10. Like, there's no reason why he should be defending

Curry this well. Yeah, Van Fleet did incredibly well individually. And as you said, Danny, Curry did seem bothered. And even though he did score 34 points, a lot of those buckets came from offball actions, whether it was off screens, relocations, handoffs that led to either three point attempts or layups or drawn files. A lot of his points came from off ball actions. And that's partially because Van Fleet did such a great job on ball. And I think overall in that

entire game, Toronto showed how Golden State's lack of a potent off ball shooters could be an issue for the Warriors in this series because they were constantly helping off sometimes flat out ignoring Draymond Green, Andrea Godala, Jonas Derebko, and so on and so forth on that roster, DeMarcus cousins as well, where they're just overhelping on Stefan Curry and Clay Thompson. And I think that's one of the reasons why we didn't see Steph and Clay for that matter have great games with the ball in their hands and why most of it came either off of broken plays and transition. Some of it came off of like we just said off ball actions.

But on the ball, I think for Toronto, for Golden State moving forward in the series, despite that success Toronto had, I still would like to see Dremont at the five. He didn't play any minutes at the five in game one, which is odd to me when it seemed like the obvious decision for Steve Kerr. And then again, Green rarely was used as a screener for Stefan Curry. He was on a couple of occasions and Toronto did a good job against it, but I would have liked to have seen

Kerr and the Warriors turn to that Dramond, Stefan Curry, pick and roll more frequently in game one, especially when they were just really struggling to get bucket during certain stretches of those games. Right, yeah. I mean, one thing that I wrote before

the series was just the Raptors needed to win, you know, the minutes in which Marcosol was on the floor. And the fact that the Raptors were plus eight in game one with Marcus All on, and he played a pretty much flawless game. You couldn't have asked more from him.

He was very decisive. He pretty much shot the three every time he was open, and he was open a lot because that was part of the warrior strategy. But, yeah, I was actually wondering why the Warriors weren't kind of trying to run him off the floor sooner. It kind of comes down to occur not necessarily being a proactive coach all the time because he has the weapons he has. He doesn't necessarily need to force the issue

when he knows, you know, Steph, Clay, Dray, Dremont, they're eventually going to get going. But yeah, I do wonder, like once the Warriors decide, okay, we're just going to go to our death lineup a little bit more, a little bit earlier,

do the Raptors necessarily have a counter for that? You know, I do wonder, with the death lineup, the, the advantage of that is perhaps you do play a Marcosol off the floor. And if Toronto does choose to go small with Siakam at the 5, that's where O'GNanobi being

available is critical because if you're putting Siacum at the 5 and taking off Ibaka or Gasol, you are severely small. You are overmatched with size. And that's where Golden State, as they have proven against Portland and Houston, can just kill you on the offensive boards if you are small. And last night, Toronto just looked like the

out bigger team across positions. They were long. They rebounded well. And obviously their length on defense created some issues for Golden State in the half court. Warriors scored only 0.84 points per play in the half court, according to cleaning glass, which is horrific. But moving forward,

I do wonder if maybe the inverse of this, Danny is, do you go big? Do you try to do what Philadelphia did against Seacom, who had a tremendous game, where maybe you put a bigger guy on Pascal Seaccom and then have Draymond as the game? as the guy roaming a little bit more.

Is there any logic to doing that rather than going small and instead just changing the matchups? So who would you put on, like, Looney? Yeah. Yeah, no, no, that makes sense to me. I mean, I feel like Draymond would probably take it as a point of pride

to kind of shut Seaccom down in game two, game three, just because he, and he had talked about this in interviews with reporters. You know, he was on his heels for much of the night, Seacom was just basically taking it to him

every single time down the floor. Weather was in the post, weather was in transition. Dremon is a supremely smart defender, but he often just guessed wrong on a lot of these plays, and Seacom made him pay for it. Was the whole conversation about the Warriors don't need Kevin Durant overblown,

or are we collectively, the collective we NBA Twitter, overreacting to this game one performance without him where Golden State again, like we just said up the top, didn't have the potent off ball shooters that allowed Toronto to help off ball. Or is this just a one game thing

and Golden State still can win the series without him, Danny? I mean, they could totally win this series. I'm overreacting because, like, this is... Look, I've never experienced this before. Like, this is a new feeling for me, so I'm overreacting. But ultimately, no. I think the warrior strategy was solid.

Like, you trap, you double Kauai, and then once he gets into the paint, you always have like that roving third guy. They basically created a huge wall around Kauai, and Kauai's not a guy like Yannis who can kind of shoot over guys. You know, at this point in the playoffs, his legs are shot.

He's largely trying to carve space out for himself, but they're basically airtight down in the paint. So they're forcing him to make really tough passes. He made some pretty gross passes last night under duress. I think the strategy is fine because, look, what are the odds that Siakum, who has been miserable for, you know, a series and a half prior to this, that Fred Van Vleek continues his historically hot shooting that everything clicks for the Raptors the way it does? I think, I don't know. I think it's a fair strategy to continue with. it's slim for sure. And I agree with you that Golden State can win the series without Katie. I picked them in six with or without Katie. One of the issues last night with their half court was the fact that they were turning the ball over when they were pressured. And this morning I saw some stuff on Twitter about how it actually wasn't Golden State's half court offense. That was the issue. It was their transition defense. And it was clear like watching the game last night with Seacom beating them up up the floor, Danny Green beating them up the floor.

floor on a couple of occasions that they had some severe errors. But I was curious about why those transition errors were happening in the first place. So I pulled up Synergy and watched all 20 of Toronto's possessions and transition from last night. And on six of them, Golden State did get back. And on those six attempts, the Raptor scored six points. On seven of them, Golden State tried to get back, but for a number of reasons, whether it was a broken play or a turnover or an unfortunate long rebound on those seven Toronto scored 10 points. And then the remaining seven, the Warriors, didn't get back at all. They just showed poor awareness.

They miscommunicated, didn't cover guys. And on those, the Raptors scored 13 points. So it's clear that Golden State could have done a better job getting back. But again, I was curious why those happened. And I would argue that 13 of the 29 points that they scored on those 20 possessions were a direct result of the lack of space in Golden State has from the. the lack of shooters on the roster and from the pressure that Toronto was able to put on Steph, they were to put on clay by trapping or helping on showing on pick and rolls or just even,

there's a couple occasions where Steph would bring the ball up and he would have two guys on him and be forced to pass. Yeah, he made some tough passes. A lot of tough passes for Steph last night. And whether it was a turnover or just a tough pass, sometimes it just led to a poor shot. And I think that still to me is the source of one the uses for Golden State. Their effort can get better, but it's still about the lack of spacing that they had, which again comes back to KD, who Chris Haynes reported should be back in game three, but more likely four. He reported that this morning on Yahoo Sports. They couldn't let, you know, Raptors fans enjoy this for like another, you know, two days.

What other Rogers going to do against KD? Like, I don't know. I don't know. Well, that's the other side of it. If you, if Katie does return during the series, Kawhi Leonard, instead of having the ability to roam off the ball and disrupt every single one of Golden State's actions, he's going to have to be stuck to Katie on off ball, on ball, regardless of where Katie is on the floor, Kawhi will have to be there. He is the defender on Toronto's roster, the only defender who can contain Kevin Durant. So Kawhi's role suddenly changes drastically, which opens up a whole bunch of stuff for the Golden State Warriors. It sort of goes without saying, Danny. But I do think with so much conversation entering the series about how they don't need KD, last night, so many of the reasons why they do did appear.

Yeah, I mean, I don't know if it was necessarily they don't need Katie. It was just like, this is fun to, it's fun to know that the warriors are still the warriors. They're still the warriors of old. They're still the warriors of four years ago. even without that like just all-time presence in their lineup, they can still conjure

the kind of magic that made them so compelling four years ago. I think ultimately, look, the league has gotten a lot better in those four years, whether or not we've been able to see it.

Like, KD has kind of, I don't know, insulated the team from a lot of what has been going on in the league around them. He's just given them that extra level

that they didn't really need to care about anyone other than their own their own system. I don't know, it was a nice reminder, but ultimately, yeah, of course they need KD. We have loads of other content about the NBA finals

up on the ringer.com. John Gonzalez was in Jurassic Park last night, and he captured the entire vibe, made you feel like you were there last night. Dan Devine was there, but he was in the building, and he covered how impressive Toronto's depth was last night. and Paula Yuggetti did the winners and losers of game one. And Danny, you wrote about the absolutely wonderful Pascal Seacum.

He's back. Just like the Raptors. He's back. Before we move on, I have to tell you about the Ringers 2019 NBA draft guide at 50s 50 of my full scatter reports, including rankings from myself, Danny Chow, and Jonathan Charks with team needs and commentary from guys like Roger Sherman. And it will be updated sometime earlier mid-next week, and we're going to expand to 60 full profiles and have a mock draft as well.

I also wanted to tell you about a fundraiser I'm running during the NBA finals called Dunk on Cancer. It can be found at dunkoncancer.com. We're raising money for every dunk in the NBA finals. You're able to donate a lot of people are doing $1 per dunk, which means for every dunk in the NBA finals, money is going towards cancer research and treatment at the Dana Farber Cancer Institute in Boston, Massachusetts. It's we have almost $50,000 in donations already, and it's not even game two yet of the finals.

So if you want to join in and make the finals a little bit more meaningful with each dunk, go to dunk on cancer.com. Anyway, Danny, up next, we are going to be doing our NBA finals draft comparison awards. And basically just to explain what this is, is every year in the playoffs, we see players get exposed. We see players who are great regular season players turn into non-impactful postseason players. And it's like Draymond Green said, there are 82 game players and then there are 16 game players. Right now in the finals with the Raptors and the Warriors, we're seeing a lot of 16 game players in the postseason. So these are comparison awards towards draft prospects that sort of fit

the mold. These aren't perfect one-to-one comparisons. We're not saying anybody's going to be the next Draymond or the next Kauai. It's just guys that sort of fit the idea in the mold of that player long term once they develop into their prime. So, Danny, you want to kick us off? Yeah, and I do want to reiterate too. Like, we're not comparing them like one to one in terms of, you know, identical skill sets.

It's more like, what does this player embody and what can a prospect necessarily take from that mentality? And so the first award, we're going to do the, the Kauai Lennar Award goes to the projected role player who has star upside in the NBA. And for me, I'm looking at a guy who has maybe one of the highest ceilings outside of the lottery. And it's Taylin Horton Tucker from Iowa State. 6.4.230, probably 235. He's a beefy boy. Maybe 300.

Yeah, honestly. seven one and a half foot wing span. He's the youngest player projected to be drafted in the first round, and he's just a round ball of clay, like almost literally. His efficiency was pretty bad in his freshman year, but he had the kind of broad strokes to be many different types of players. He's powerful, great first step, has the wingspan that some centers would love to have.

he has a low center of gravity kind of has a lot of comfort in handling the ball in the pick and roll he has a lot of ambition doesn't really have the finesse to kind of put it all together yet but that's a player with incredible upside with all those skills that

NBA teams are looking for you know he's going to be starting off as a role player just because he's so young and he doesn't really have a defined elite skill but you know three four years down the line line, you're looking at a guy with all the physical attributes and all of the broad strokes of

of, you know, modern skill sets across multiple positions. I think he has a really strong shot at being better than where he's drafted. I'm glad we started off with him because I got to be honest with you, Danny. Horton Tucker scares the hell out of me. Yeah, of course. He scares me. I have him ranked 32 on my board. Maybe I'm being a bit too risk adverse with him. I think you have him 13 to or 14th on your board. Right. I'm just concerned that so much of the appeal with him is his age, his youth, that he is somebody that we're looking at his youth and that assuming he will get better over time.

But I, again, I just have some serious concerns with his shot selection, his decision-making, his touch. He's a poor free-throw shooter. He's an average three-point shooter statistically last year and as a freshman in Iowa state with him. Like, he's somebody who, when we look back. at our rankings five or ten years from now, I might be like, damn, I really missed on Horton Tucker. What a fool I was to have him that low.

Right. But I think if he could be out of the league. Yes. Yeah. But he's somebody that I'm like, you know what? I'll let him be somebody else's, you know, problem or or savior. He's a low, low, low, low floor, high ceiling guy that I'm just not feeling super confident about to take a, take a shot at.

But I can definitely see the appeal as a, is the quiet, Kyle Leonard Award. Let's move on to the Dramon Green Award, which goes to the super switchable guy that can also pass the ball. Oh, man. I think I know where we're going here. I think the player's name starts with a Z, right? Yeah, let's ignore Zion Williamson, though,

because we have talked about him a ton. It can't be Zion. Everybody knows him. So let's go with another Zylan Cheatham, red shirt senior from Arizona State. he's he's become one of my favorite players in the draft dany he's six foot eight with a seven foot wing span he is an elite athlete and i use elite purposely he is an elite athlete he plays with intensity and focus that you don't find from players too often and i mean that like in a a marcus smart

draymond green p j tucker type of mentality he defends across positions in college with point guards and wings and forwards and and sometimes even centers in the NBA, I think he projects as a guy who can do the same thing aside from big, beefy centers, the Embed types. But what makes him, for me, a Dremont type is that he can also pass the ball. And there's very few players with his type of athleticism and size and length on defense that can also handle the ball and playmake off the dribble on offense. So the question with him moving forward is going to be the jump shot. He did not shoot the ball well at all in college.

had to change his shooting mechanics since the end of the college season. And he has. And I think it's a positive that he's shown the willingness to change his mechanics, whether it translates to the court, whether it translates to NBA range from the corners and from the three point line remains to be seen. But I think with Cheatham, he is somebody that I have 24th on my board. A lot of people expect him to go undrafted. But I have a hard time, I have a hard time finding reasons why he's not a first round pick, despite the lack of the jump shot. But despite the fact he's 23 years old as a redshirt senior, I think he warrants a high selection this year's draft because high character guy who has so many translatable skills on the defensive end of the floor and as a playmaker in a draft that has so many players with endless question marks with only theoretical skills that are translatable. Right.

Yeah. And you've mentioned he is on the older side. Even for a senior, he will be 24 during the NBA regular season. He's 23 now. He's old. He's old. But, you know, he was a transfer. It makes a little bit more sense in that regard.

And as you said, like, he has a bunch of these skills that NBA teams covet. And at a certain point in this draft specifically, that's kind of what you're looking for. You're looking to kind of fill in the kind of missing gaps that your team schematically could use. This guy isn't going to be a star, but he's definitely going to be able to play. I sort of look at him at like when it comes to age, we see guys coming to the drafts at coming to the league at 24, 25 years old all the time. McKinney was 25 as a rookie with the Raptors. He's 26 now with the Warriors. PJ Tucker Daynick coming back into the league until he was 27 years old after time overseas.

And with Cheatham, he just spent a lot of time in college. He was a transfer from San Diego State. And then he was also redshirted as well. So he's old. Like that's undeniable. Right. But I think if you're looking strictly at his skills, regardless of the level of competition overseas or college or G-League,

I just think he has a lot that warrants a guy that's draftable in a guy that deserves a shot in the NBA. I just like every time I see players like Cheatham, I always think back to guys like Dominic McGuire who were just lost in the NBA in like the mid-aughts because they had no position. And, you know, he was an super athletic. six, eight, dude who could do a little bit of everything but couldn't really do much of anything. And I'm just like, man, what would that player look like in 2019?

And it's just like maybe he'd look like Cheatham. And maybe Cheatham ends up being a kind of, you know, a Dremond in a role player sense. You know, like the Dremond of the bench. I like that, Danny. Who do we have next? Next up, I think, is one of our favorites, a corner three favorite, the past. Pascal Seacom Award goes to the hustler who probably needs to show that he has a jumper in the NBA to truly translate and truly validate where he gets drafted. I think that goes to Brandon Clark of Gonzaga.

We've talked about him plenty. There are definitely concerns about who he can be at the NBA level. He didn't have a great anthropomorphic measurement day at the NBA Combine. his wingspan is not up to par for a guy who projects to be a small ball five, a four in the NBA, but there's just so much to like about his game. He is one of the best defenders in the draft.

He is a hard worker. And like Cheatham, actually, a transfer who had to overhaul his jump shot and really showed incredible touch in his one season at Gonzaga. And I don't know, I'm just madly in love with the guy. I think Charks, even more so. Charks has him second on his board.

Still, yep, yep. When we do the update on the NBA draft guide, have you gotten rankings from Charks yet from Hawaii? I'm curious have you still second on Charks? Probably not, but, you know. Yeah, and honestly, like, we talk about Pascal Seaccom. And one of the major things that he's been kind of known for this season has been his devastating spin move. Brandon Clark has a little bit of that too.

And he has a little bit of that playmaking finesse as well off the dribble and kind of as a role man. There's a lot to like there. And I think he's a really, really smart defensive player, an incredible rim protector given his size. Yeah, I think Clark, all three of us, me, you and sharks, have him as a lottery. pick. I think Clark is going to be a guy who, despite some of the knocks on him with the lack of a jumper, or rather the iffy jump shot, his shorter wingspan, he more than makes up for it with his effort, with his athleticism, and just his flat out skills and feel for the game. I think Clark is going to be one of those long-term NBA players, whether he is a lottery pick or he slips into the back of the

first round because he'll be 23 as a rookie. Sometimes I think age gets so overblown oftentimes of the prospects. And I hope for Clark, he isn't necessarily knocked for that, but he probably will be to an extent. He's a guy that he's going to be a player for a long time. I mean, a, another point of comparison between him and him and Siakum, they will both be 23 in terms of their first season in the NBA. So by the way, like I look back at Siakum. I had him ranked like I think 40 in that in that draft. And I, I,

with him, my mistake was just overthinking the, the jump shot, overthinking the, the defensive fundamentals, because in college he could defend, um, but he sometimes moved a little bit slow laterally.

He had some fundamental issues like defending on his heels and, rather defending on the balls of his feet. And that's, that was a concern that I had because not all guys get the right teaching in order to improve their, their fundamentals on defense. But I undersold the effort. the mindset that he had.

And that's something with Brennan Clark or or Zylin Cheatham. I'm going to sound like a, like a 55 year old, like old school coach, but you know, I already do, man.

I want guys who play hard, Danny. I want guys who want to win. Yeah. And Clark and Cheatim and Seacum, those are winners. Those are guys that you want to bet on. You don't want to bet on a guy who doesn't really love the game or a guy who's

not willing to put an extra effort in the gym, a guy who's not willing to do the things that are necessary in order to improve their weaknesses. So Clark is a guy that I want to bet on. Like, give me that guy in my team rather than the guy who there's questions about how hard he's actually going to work, even if there's more theoretical skill. Yeah. Let's move on to the Mark Gassol Award, which goes to the playmaking big man who can also shoot threes. We've talked about this guy before, Goga Patazzi. He is a center from Mega playing overseas. He's one of my, again, favorite prospects in the draft 19 years old 611 with a 7 foot 2 wingspan this season uh goga is

somebody who has improved defensively uh when he was at younger younger levels he was not a great defender and there's still questions about how he like any center in today's league can survive in this pace and space perimeter oriented league however i think charx made a great point in an article he wrote a couple of weeks ago or maybe a couple months ago how with centers and today's league You need to be able to offer offense. You need to make an impact on that and the floor because it's so hard to actually make a tangible impact on defense. And Goga is somebody, he can space the floor from three. He can pass the hell out of the ball.

He's somebody who can screen and short roll and pop. He is a good all-around offensive player with the potential to get even better as he gets into his 20s. And I think this season he's shown that he can survive defensively. He is competitive at least. He is somebody who has improved laterally, and he rebounds too. So GoGet to me checks a lot of the boxes as a guy who can space the floor, who can pass the ball, and at least survive defensively. Yeah, there's, like, strong shades of Yusuf Nurkich with a three ball. I think I saw, like, a clip a few weeks ago of him just, like, pulling up from three in a pretty important game.

I was like, oh, crap, okay. I didn't see that coming. and he's also like a very instinctual rim protector he's definitely not a guy who's going to be like chasing dudes around but in short spaces he's actually pretty agile and pretty quick it's just when you have him defending in space one of the slower guys in the draft

to put it lightly who we got next to Annie? Oh yeah so the next one is kind of a strange award to be giving out we'll call it the Steph Curry Award but that doesn't really feel right. So maybe we'll call it the Quinn Cook Award. Let's call it the Quinn Cook Award.

For the best shooting point guard in this draft, I think we have a couple options here. The first is probably, is it fair to say, Darius Garland? He only played five games. You know, it almost feels insulting to call a projected lottery pick, the Quinn Cook Award. But I see your point.

It's not an insult. It's the best shooting guard in the draft. The best shooting point guard on the draft. And Garland, we talked about this a couple weeks ago on a podcast and comparing Garland and Morant. There are questions about Garland's defense. There are questions about his true playmaking ability. But there's no doubt that that dude could shoot the hell out of the ball with his shot creation ability from the perimeter. Are there any others that stand out, Danny, besides Garland?

I mean, one guy who stands out for me is Carson Edwards out of pretty. I mean, he chucked 10 threes per game in his final season at Purdue. He shot it at around 36%. But overall in his career, I think he's up to around 37%. He's a good three-point shooter. Edwards is interesting for me just because when we're talking about Steph Curry, when we're talking about Quinn Cook, these kind of quintessential warriors point guards, I like Edwards in that he kind of creates a lot of opportunities for others because of how he plays off

the ball. He's pretty thick for his size. He's pretty comfortable setting screens away from the action. He definitely won't be shooting 10-3s per game in the NBA. So like any kind of extra ability for him to kind of create shots out on the perimeter is definitely something that teams will be looking at. So yeah, I don't know. Like we're definitely not looking at the next deaf curry there, but Carson Edwards can definitely be a Quinn Cook guy. One other guy I want to mention is Justin Wright Foreman, a senior from Hofstra. Wright Foreman is somebody who, I hate even saying this, but he reminds me of somebody who could be an Isaiah Thomas type of steel.

There's a slim chance that that would happen. A lot needs to break right for a player in his development, but he's a smaller point guard, 6-1 or 6-2, so shifty with the ball in his hands, the ability to change speeds, change directions, and he can shoot an extremely high level. off the dribble from deep range from three he does not need to extend his range and only that he's somebody who i think beyond the numbers he averaged only 2.9 assists last season as a senior which is

not good um but i think he's sort of an underrated passer i i think he made some tough passes when you really dive into the film with him he makes some tough cross court passes from underneath the rim that quote unquote score first guards don't usually make so with foreman with right form and i do wonder with him is it a matter of opportunity to become that pass first that past guy because in college he shared the back court with with a guy who passed the ball a lot and i think with right foreman may not get drafted but to me he's a guy that would be near the top of my undrafted list if he does fall out of the draft right and i guess this trans transfers us to uh one of the least sexy awards we can possibly give,

the Alfonso McKinney Award goes to a future role player who will probably need to spend time in the G League to develop. My guy is Simi Shitu. He is a 610 physical specimen out of Canada. He was a top 20 recruit, went to Vanderbilt, lost Darius Garland within five games and just kind of wandered in the wilderness of Vanderbilt's completely horrendous season.

But there's just so much to like in terms of his build, his unique skills for the position that he plays. So he's probably going to be playing four and five. But he can handle the ball. He can take the ball coast to coast. He's shown the ability to make pretty solid passes. he was recovering from a torn ACL in his freshman season. So I think that probably played a little bit of a role in terms of his struggles in the season.

I don't know. I just think there's something there. And when you have a guy with that kind of physical talent, put him in the G League, let him kind of figure things out against grown men. Why not? I think with Simi Shih Tzu, my one hang up with him entering after the call season was what I had hoped to see entering the season. That was a productive jump shot. He shot only one for 18 from three, only 58% from the free throw line. And I think with all the

skills that you're detailing, I am with you 100% on all the positive traits. But for all that to be activated, for all that to matter, you got to be able to space the floor. And shit too for me has not shown the touch or the shooting ability at this stage of his career for me to really feel super confident in that manifesting for him long term. But that's the point. That's why the award is the Alfonso McKinney Award by having a guy spend time in the G League. Moving on to a guy that did get lost in the shuffle, but it had to spend a little bit of time in the G League was Danny Green.

The Danny Green Award goes to the potential high-end 3-Indee player. And the obvious choice here, Danny, is Matisse Thibel, a senior from Washington. He will not go undrafted. He will not be a second undraft pick in all likelihood. Thibel had one of the greatest statistical defensive seasons of all time last year at Washington playing within their zone defense. He was able to roam off ball and jump passing lanes like a free safety. And that's not going to be what he's able to do in the NBA. But within that concept, he did show just his tenacity and his focus and his awareness defending off the ball.

And that's critical in today's NBA, especially when you're defending guys that can shoot the hell out of the ball from three. So I think Thibel has those tools to be a great off ball perimeter defender, but also with him on ball, I think it's pretty clear with his lateral ability, with his athleticism, and again, his focus, intensity and mindset for him to be a great on ball defender.

So he has that going for him to be a potential great defender in the NBA. The question will be, like it was for Danny Green after four years at North Carolina, is how real is his jump shot? What level does the shot reach for him? He shot only 36% from three in college, which is fine. He got better over his four years there. But Danny, it seems to be really a matter of, can this be, can Thibel be a great shooter?

Can it be a good shooter? Or is he just going to be one of those average, below average shooters that doesn't really warrant defensive attention? Right. And I think one thing that Thibble has over Danny Green, and I think something that kind of raises his ceiling in that regard is that he's a much better athlete. He's shown the ability to make place for other. on occasion and he definitely has more wiggle and and ball handling ability than Danny Green has ever shown in his career. And in that regard and also in terms of his just defensive genius, it kind of reminds me of Andre Aguadala, an other guy in this finals.

There are some plays that Thibel made with his hands just like just stripping balls away and kind of prying balls loose and really just like taking command of the defense from the perimeter, which is so hard to do at any level of the game, it really reminded me of some of those defensive genius plays that Andrea Aguadala has made over the past four years in the finals and in the postseason.

Yeah, with Thibel, I don't think he has the playmaking ability, the ball handling ability that Iguodala has, but he's, again, he's an underrated passer within his role. He's a smart player who, again, can pass within the flow of the team concept. And sometimes that's just as important as a guy that can be a shot creator

for you want guys who can make the right play at the right time. And Thibel seems to be somebody who's going to be able to translate that to the next level. Moving on to the Serge Abaka Award, which goes to the shot blocker who can roll to the rim and shoot deep twos and maybe, hopefully,

hopefully sometimes three pointers. I'm going to give this to Fyandu Cabengeli. He is a big man from Florida State, the nephew of Dekemey Matambo. Yes. He is somebody to me that

his shop blocking ability, he got it from his uncle. He got it from Matambo. It's there inside him. It is. And there's no doubt his shot blocking can translate to the NBA. He shot the ball very well last year of Florida

State, 37% from the three point line, 77% from the free throw line. Again, one of those guys, as we hit on earlier, who just plays hard. And that for me is one of those traits that I look for in guys that are going to be late first round draft picks, early second rounders. I think Kevin Gelley is not a guarantee to be a long-term pro in the NBA, a guy who can be, like we said up the top, a guy who contributes at a high end in the playoffs. He needs to solve his falling issue. We saw last round in the Western Commerce Finals, how that's still an issue for somebody like Zach Collins,

who shows a lot of these similar strengths with his shop blocking and his shooting. I mean, you and I and sharks all like him, Danny. Yeah. But the fouling is something that needs to get better for Cabengeli,

as well as a couple other things on the defensive end with his positioning and his awareness. But he has a baseline of skills for him to at least be warranted as a late first round draft pick. Right. And look,

some of those fouling issues never go away. Sometimes you're just a wily defender who doesn't ever really process the game. game at a fast enough speed for it to kind of slow down for you. Like, Sergei Baca still has moments where he makes boneheaded moves where he bites on pumpfakes. It's still a part of his game.

And he's, you know, in his, what, 10th season now. And that could be the case for Cabengeli, but I don't know. I believe in a lot of his positive skills. He's just a really, really talented instinctual rim protector. and I can also kind of see him being a kind of Kavan Looney type of project in the right system. So Looney was drafted

as a sort of new age forward who can kind of do a little bit of everything at UCLA. Shot threes, kind of took guys off the dribble. He was a point guard in high school, blah, blah, blah. But now when you think of Luni, what do you think of? You kind of think of a new age Kendrick Perkins, right?

It's like he's basically a stout defender who knows exactly what. what he can do and exactly what he's good at, but doesn't really do much beyond that. And I think there's value in that for a lot of winning teams. Cabengeli has some bad tendencies, and he can kind of play as though, you know, he's trying to be a guard,

but those tendencies can be ironed out if you put him in, you know, a winning system, potentially. You know, he's a big man who checks a lot of boxes. One of my favorite types of big men are the ones who could shoot free throws at a high percentage. he's one of those guys. And so maybe you take a risk on him and maybe you think,

okay, we can kind of streamline his responsibilities on the floor and suddenly you're looking at a very, very high, you know, high floor type of player. Danny, can we agree that there is no award

for a Clay Thompson or Kevin Durant in this year's draft class? Yeah, I think we can. Okay, okay. listeners, we would love to know if there's a Fred Van Vleet or a Kyle Lurie or a Quinn Cook in this year's draft class or any of the other players that we discussed. So like use hashtag the Corner 3 on Twitter or Instagram or send us a direct tweet or message about that. Because I'm curious, like, what are your best comparisons to guys in the finals for players in this year's draft class? Danny, we have one last piece of news before we get out of here.

Jonathan Ivoni from Draft Express, now ESPN, reported this morning that there's a chance that NICS could trade down from the number three pick. They're at least exploring offers, including a package from the Atlanta Hawks who have the eighth and the tenth pick. What is your main takeaway from this piece of news regarding the NIC's thought process on the draft and perhaps their perception of R.J. Barrett? At this point, it feels as though they're basically banking on Kyrie and KD, and now they're just trying to build some depth around them?

Like, we've been talking about RJ and his fit with a lot of these teams at the top of the lottery and how he might not be the perfect fit on any of these teams, especially me and Charks saying this. You very, you know, strongly defended his honor in the last memorial day edition of the corner three. But that's kind of the takeaway I have here. Maybe they're just not looking for a dude who's trying to be, you know, the next great, you know, two guard, the next great, you know, ball handling player when you have much better

options in that regard. And Katie and Kerry Irving, who have not signed there yet. Who have not, who have not. So this all feels like, you know, you're shopping for. a baby that has yet to be conceived. You know? I mean, I mean, you can have, you know, the due date, it's July 1st. You know, if it's a boy or girl, you have an idea of when that baby's coming,

if you're the Knicks. I personally, I think it makes a lot of sense for them, especially if they know Katie's coming, or they know Katie Ann Kyrie or Kimball Walker or whoever else is coming with him because I think Barrett can work, but I'd rather have two guys. Yeah. I mean, of all the names we just mentioned, I think there's guys that can be found in this year's draft who can fit alongside star players. Like this isn't this isn't a great draft class. There's a lot of guys with question marks. But if you're the Knicks, would you rather have Cam Reddish at 8 and and and Brandon Clark at 10 or RJ Barrett? I think you'd probably rather have the former in the two guys who can who can be on rookie scale contracts and build a around. around two championship level players. I think that's the right formula and the right mindset for the Nix to be taking here as the draft approaches. And by the way, like, we saw this the past two years.

We saw Atlanta trade down from three to five last year trading Luca for Tray Young. And maybe that, that will be a poor decision. But we saw it. And then we saw it the year before with Boston trading down from one to three with Markell Fultz for Tatum and the Kings pick that they have this year at number 14. So we've seen this two years in a row now. And it would not surprise me if we see it again. The team above the Knicks at number two, Gavoni also reported they wanted to schedule a workout with R.J. Barrett.

RJ's working out with the Knicks on, I think, June 10th, Gavoni reported, but Memphis was not able to get one with RJ Barry. He declined a workout with the Grizzlies. I wonder with Memphis, is this Memphis trying to just stir the pot, trying to raise value of the second pick, perhaps to force the Knicks? to trade up one spot, or is this them doing their due diligence, or is this them having questions about actually taking John Moran?

Because I like the fit with R.J. Barrett's go-to-scoring ability next to Mike Conley as an overall leaning towards pass-first point guard. Oh, yeah. I mean, I think we're in agreement in there. I think R.J. Barrett, his perfect fit amongst the top four teams would probably be the Memphis Grizzlies, given his ability to kind of, of create his own shot and the fact that

the grizzlies have really been looking for a solid wing for the past like eight years now. But I do think they're doing their due diligence. Like why wouldn't you? You have the second pick in the draft. Wait, so Barrett is

trying to avoid this? Like he's not... Perhaps. Gavoni did say that there's still time for them to schedule a workout but he did decline the initial invitation to work out for the Grizzlies. To me, This reminds me of so much of the time that Chris Taps, Porzingis, and his then-agent, Andy Miller, steered him towards the Knicks.

This time will be different. The Knicks have cap space. The Knicks have a real significant chance of signing KD and somebody else. Different. They have better options. Yes, but for R.J. Barrett, you got to be thinking about what happens if they trade you. I think Memphis on paper is a great fit for him. Right.

And if theoretically the Knicks select R.J. Barrett and they do the Andrew Wiggins thing where they trade him in 30 days after he's eligible to be traded, you don't have a choice where you go. You don't have a choice. And with RJ Barrett, you have at least the potential of going to a situation with the Grizzlies that the supporting cast with a potential co-star in Jaron Jackson who perfectly complements you on both ends of the floor. He, Jaron Jackson is a player like we discussed last year's draft class. Charks had him, I believe, second on his board. Jackson is somebody who can play next to anybody.

And he can enhance R.J. Barrett's ability as an offensive player and he can cover for some of his occasional limitations on defense. And perhaps I think with that, with that mindset that they have with that roster there with Mike Conley as a veteran, RJ playing in a winning situation, maybe activates some of that defensive potential. Maybe it activates some of his playmaking ability that we saw at Duke on occasion when he had actual floor spacing.

If I'm R.J. Barrett and his representatives, I'm thinking really hard about actually giving the Grizzies a workout because that would be a great fit for him. Absolutely. Danny, it's all we have time for today. Great pod. That's fun. Yeah. Thank you so much for listening to the NBA show.

Please give us a five-star rating on iTunes. Share the podcast with your friends. And oh, by the way, thank you for everybody who has donated or shared the Dunk on Cancer fundraiser that I've been doing during the NBA finals. That's meant the world. It's been really cool to see that response so far. Thank you for checking that out. And again, thank you for listening to The Bringer NBA show. Check out our website.

We have so much NBA finals coverage on there. Gons and Divine did a podcast last night that is already up in your feed. Give that a listen. Special shout out to Bobby Wagner for producing today's show. Thank you again for listening. Peace.