The Ringer NBA Show - Another All-Time Clippers Stinker. Plus, Is LeBron Better Off Leaving L.A.? | Group Chat

Episode Date: May 2, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos discuss a tough night for the Los Angeles Clippers and Miami Heat. They briefly recap both games and discuss if the Clippers can come back in the series and what Miami's offseason potentially looks like. Then they talk about potential landing spots for Lebron James (34:10) and preview Timberwolves-Nuggets (49:07). The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Did Don Draper really buy the world of Coke? Did Tony Soprano really die? Or just order more onion rings? The finales of our favorite shows can make us argue, make us cry, and make us crazy. From Spotify and the Ringer, I'm Andy Greenwald, and this is Stick the Landing, a new podcast where we'll be telling the story of modern TV backwards, one fade out at a time. Find Stick the Landing on Wednesdays on the prestige TV feed, on Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello and welcome to group chat. I am Justin Verrier and joining me the runners up for the Tyman Stokes.

Teammates of the Year award. Rob Mahoney, big Waz. Waz, you had number one spot on my ballot. Congratulations. What the hell? I'm right here. Thank you. Thank you.

Much appreciated, bros. Damn. It was only a three-person ballot, much like some of these other awards. And I had to have Waz. I had to have Isaiah. And then Ben Cruz, I mean, there's just only so many spots here. You didn't vote for me or Mike Connolly somehow. Mike Connolly was last year, so I decided to spread it around a little bit.

I mean, tough but fair. I'll have to, you know, I'm going to take this. I'm going to internalize it. I'm going to use it to grow. I'm going to be a better teammate here in 2024. We appreciate it. So Rob and I had what we thought at the time on Saturday, the worst slate of games, this playoffs.

I would think, Rob, that this night kind of trumped that and then some. How do you feel that this is our role now? You know, we're here to take out the garbage after a day of blood. slowouts, sweep the floor. It's appropriate. Honestly, it really is RMO at this point, and I'm here for it. Even if these games weren't that great, Justin, I love thinking about the Celtics in the playoffs, their potential next matchup, their potential next slip-up or pitfall.

I mean, there's always something interesting to talk about. So even if the games aren't themselves fantastic, which they aren't, it looks like the Mavericks are going to be smoking the clippers and the Celtics, you know, on to the next thing. So even when the Celtics win by 34 points, you're just fantasizing about their demise. Come on, man. Come on, I'm about content.

That's it. I don't care about anything else but content, guys. I don't think they've played a bad minute since you were last on the show. But no, I'm glad that you're sticking to this corner. I don't think they played a good team either. Look at that. Oh, no, a reverse card.

Just ready for it. We're going to get into the Lakers later on. We're going to get into Wolves and Nuggets, which Wads will appreciate that talk at the very least. But I do think we need to start with the action tonight. First and foremost, with the Clippers potentially playing a very appropriate potential last game at Crypto.com Arena.

Was, did Paul George play in that game? I don't remember ever seeing him, really. Paul George played. Just playoff P didn't get off the bus. I think that's what happened. Him and James Hardin followed up just an incredible, you know, game four to even the series of. James Hardin, closer James Hardin, which if folks remember, like James Hardin obviously has a horrible playoff reputation, but he's had great playoff games interspersed into a bunch of series across the years.

It's just that when it was at a critical juncture, Whenever it matters the most, whenever the rubber hits the road, whenever the shit hits the fan, whenever, you know, the cliche you want to use. Rock in a hard place. Yeah, he's just tended to stink up to join it tonight has been no different. There's also a thing with him where he's almost never more certain to have a bad game than after he's had a great game. We were due for it. And this was a real stinker. I'll do credit to the Mavs, who I thought genuinely just timed him.

out a lot better. They kept him from getting in rhythm on his threes. They kept him off of the free throw line. You saw Derek Jones Jr. block him on a step back. You saw PJ Washington hound him from behind and swat one of those floaters just right out of midair. So Dallas was doing a lot to bother him. But I wouldn't say Hardin was particularly inclined to work around them or force the issue or do really anything adaptive at all in this game other than I'm going to pass out and chill. And Paul George also, I'm going to pass out and chill. And that leads to a lot of Amir coffee in weird spots, a lot of Russell Westbrook shooting bait corner threes. And for some reason, a team that was just like getting easy money from Avica Zubots in the first half of this game

decided as many teams do with their centers for some reason, we're just going to stop passing him the ball. I do either of you understand why that's happening? I don't think it's of actual offensive philosophy that anybody actually believes in. We know damn well, James Hardin, Russell Westbrook, and Paul George don't believe in offense should run through Zubotch. And I don't think Ty Lou does either. I think it's kind of a tactic that they go to early on in order to elicit a response from Dallas to open up their other guys who they inevitably want to have the ball anyway, right?

I'm not surprised by the fact that they didn't want to, you know, do Zubach post. for the rest of the night. What does kind of surprise me is just the general lethargy and just malaise of starting the offense with like 12 seconds left every single possession and walking it up and just

the lack of urgency on this team is just it's disheartening to see and their season is clearly on the line on the brink and they just seem to be going through the motions which is just very disappointing. And to contrast that Justin, I don't think I've ever seen Luca

played this fast. He was booking it down court. Even when the maps have kind of revved up in the regular season, it's usually him hitting ahead and passing it out to guys. He was busting ass in transition, which I think is a credit to how well the clippers have played defensively at times in the half court in the series, but

the energy discrepancy between them could not have been more stark. Running in transition, busting his ass on defense, in spots at the very least, enough to at the very least show his team that he was out there doing that. I don't think he and Kyrie hit a three and until late in the third quarter.

For me, this was just like a clear sign of what those two are able to do together just from a playmaking standpoint. A lot is just kind of focused on the scoring and obviously so. But just the way they're able to activate all those guys around them, I think is it's just a pretty sharp contrast to what Hardin and Paul George were not doing for some of those other guys you're mentioning. It does help when you have vertical threats like Alively and Gafford. because there was a stretch there

where they were really putting it on Zubotch and it felt like that's when they decided to go away from Zubach but they're just able to orchestrate and get things moving when things aren't necessarily going well for themselves shooting the ball and to do that on a night

where Luca's nursing a bum knee he was reportedly sick going into this game and for that guy to have as much energy as he did relative to your Paul George's and your James Hardens I think it's just kind of indefensible as we've been told many times These are pivotal game fives, guys.

These are very pivotal. You got to show up and pivot. If you're not going to pivot, what are you even doing here? Yeah, and I think some of the Clippers' limitations as an offense are shown here, right? Look, they were more discombobulating when Kauai was playing because he's clearly hampered by the knee problems. But, you know, when he's not right, you got to think about who even is a shooter on this team. Paul George can make an open three, obviously. Norm Powell is a willing and accurate shooter.

I think Amir coffee has his moments, but, like, Hardin doesn't like to take spot up three, so he doesn't even count as a floor space. So, of course, there's Westbrook, there's Zub, there's Plum Dog, there's PJ. Like, they don't have a very dynamic offense to begin with. And I think Jake hit over the years, man, if anything, he's become a pretty creative defensive coach.

when it's like, all right, we got the gist of what you guys were trying to do against us in game four. We're going to come back with a pretty solid game plan to shut that water off. And they went about doing that. And I mean, goddamn, last night at the crypt ever for the Los Angeles Clippers, pour one out, y'all. I mean, it may not be. Well, they were definitely comatose in this one. They were comatose. Like, if you want to bury them, you might as well.

I can't blame you. but everything always looks incredibly dark after a playoff loss. And as we've seen in the series, can change very, very quickly. But as far as all those dynamics and how the stars and the team are activating the players around them, that's one very specific area in which I just wish Paul George had played better. Every time he would drive into traffic,

one of two things would happen. He would get swallowed alive by all of these rotating Mavericks defenders and all of that length inside. He was throwing up awful shots, just like barely even hitting rim or sometimes missing. it entirely over Gafford in Washington and Derek Jones. Or he was trying to spray out and through just horrendous passes, completely off target. Like nowhere even near Terrence Mann as he's trying to kick out to the point that even

if man does get a hand on the ball, the possession is completely derailed. Yeah, he was just reckless going into the lane or just didn't seem like he had a clear idea of where he wanted to go with the possession. I almost wonder if this is where like the subtle effects of Kauai not being in there really starts the show because Hardin, yes, he had an awful game, but they really brought him in to orchestrate to set those other guys up. And it did feel like the type of game where like Hardin wanted to go into deferential mode and kick it over to these guys. And Paul George didn't pick it up. And Kauai wasn't there to pick it up. And so who's going to do it? Probably Russell Westbrook,

even though he shouldn't to the point where like there was a clip circulating on Twitter, someone right behind the bench from Dallas. They were telling their guys to let this guy shoot as many times as he wanted to. And what do you know, two for 11 tonight over three from three? As depressing as this outcome was for the clippers, I think we can rejoice on one thing and one thing only. And we could finally forever bury the never ever doing it again. Thank God. It's over. We don't even have to. No, no, it's not happening, Justin. It's not happening. This team is cooked. I mean, even Paul George, who, you know, we all. picked him for all NBA.

He had a nice season. It's just obvious the injuries and the age factor have taken its toll. He's just not one of these upper echelon type of stars anymore. He just can't routinely create space. He can't routinely turn the corner. He can't routinely get to the basket

and finish over people. Like, you mentioned him driving into traffic. It's just turnover and horrible pass. And he just not one of those guys anymore. at the upper echelons of it. You can't even say, I think the best of Paul George, we used to call him like the ideal two, right? Like a fantastic two in the mold of what Jamal Murray is on Denver

or what Tyrese Maxie is turning himself into in Philadelphia. You can't say that about Paul George anymore. He's not an elite two. Obviously, he's not a one. He's still a good player, useful player, effective player. but he just, he can't on a night to night put his imprint on the game and yeah, we can bury the hatchet on

quote unquote contender clippers for the rest of our lives with this iteration anyway. See, I think I'm higher on Paul George as a second guy on a team. This one just doesn't have a first guy and this is what happens. This is what happens when you're like miscast in that way

is everyone has to do way too much and no one is really suited for it and your whole offense is stuck in the mud for basically like if we're going to zoom out this is now like seven straight quarters of the clippers playing kind of like garbage and that's that's gonna lose you a series frankly yeah I tend to agree with Rob there

I think Paul has shown outside of the Western Conference finals run that he's probably best off in spurts right you want him when you need him and he could tend he could step up when needed sometimes but not all the time he's just not as consistent as you need him to be the number one guy on your team like he should probably if we're looking ahead to like next moves glom on to like a young team where he could

be that and not have the pressure to be the guy all the time unless you need him to like dare I say the Orlando Magic which is like a rumor kicking around that's probably unverifiable or the Philadelphia 76ers like saddle yourself between an MVP and another young star

I mean it seems like a pretty sweet gig if you can get it. Yeah unless MB just already has his ticket book to New York in the off season. He loves New York. He loves the crowd. He wants everyone to tell him to fuck off. Seems like It seems like everybody has New York earmarked this offseason, huh?

Hmm. Who else are you referring to, Waz? Well, you know, speaking to tweets, you know, the Stephen A on his TV show, he said, yo, I heard Jamal, excuse me, he said I heard that Devin Booker, different Kentucky guy, light-skinned Kentucky guy, I heard Devin Booker is super interested in the move to New York. And, you know, people like, oh, shut the hell up. The Knicks are on their way to the conference finals.

We don't give a damn about this offseason crap. And I just have to remind people like, yo, one, Stephen A is one of the most tapped in people in the league. Like, you can say whatever you want. He talks to people and is very well connected and very well sourced. Like, this is just an undeniable truth. And two, I heard similar things, too, from people directly close to, Devin Booker. Now, you know, at the time, I took this to be just bluster, you know, like Devin Booker around some guys that might have affinity for the Knicks and being like,

yo, you know, I thought about the Knicks as a destination for myself. And to be quite honest for me, and I know we're getting quite far afield here. I just took that to mean playing around KD sucks. And like the sun situation is something he's already soured on. Maybe he would love. of being in New York. But to me, that just spoke to, like, that son's situation is already a dud. If he's already thinking about, like, oh, this thing is going to work

and this thing's going to be great, we're going to create this wonderful, exciting thing here in Phoenix. That's what I took it more to mean than, oh, he's about to force his way to New York. But again, if Stephen A is saying stuff like that, it's because he's talked to people. Well, even if the sons are a first round dud right now,

I was told by James Johnson that no team has maximized Kevin Durant yet. So really, there's nowhere to go but up if you're the Phoenix Suns. You just have to unlock the player who's already won two titles and been the MVP and is historically great. I get the fit, though. I mean, what is Booker, if not a massacist grinder who just wants to shove people after the whistle? So like, if there's like a Tibbs player who isn't yet a Tibbs player, I don't know. I think that Booker, oh man, I think he fits right in. What would you give up to get him? would the Sons give up a guy with that many years on his contract?

Probably not. But like, I think he fits the MO of what they've been going for. Devin Booker. Is he about that life was? Is he about the Tom Tibado, 43 minutes a game, hard-grinding defensive life? I think he'd definitely be very eager to prove himself. I don't know that he's about that 48-minute a game. Minutes low.

I don't think his hammies are built for that. But I think temperamentally and attitudinally, you know, I think he's, would be up for it. And, you know, for me, when they talk about fit, I'm just like, Devin Booker and the Dante de Vengezzo role, like, it's already there. Like, it's already obvious

where he slots into what they want to do in a so much more supercharged way. It makes a lot of sense to me. I just don't know the machinations of making that happen. If somebody, the caliber of Devin Booker comes on the market, like, I feel like the Knicks could possibly get outbid

for that type of deal. Like, whatever. We don't need to get into it. Yeah, we're like four tangents deep at this point. I just took the Devin Booker chatter as, God, it must stink playing around KD. My goodness. Well, I actually think this is a good segue because I think we need to talk about Kyrie,

who is just on another level of this postseason. And I was looking at our top 100 rankings, Rob, just trying to figure out how many guards at this point are better than one Kyrie Irving. If you ask the internet, they would say maybe one and it would be Luca Donchich. Unfortunately, we don't go on the internet. So we just stick to the podcast.

Never been on there. My mute button doesn't allow me to be on the internet. So I'm going to go down the list of guards we have above Kyrie. You stop me when we actually should have this guy below Kyrie. You know that I participated in the making of this ranking, right? So I already put all these guys more or less above Kyrie. So, Waz, I'm going to go down this list. You stop me.

Yeah. When we get to that. Luca, Shea, Steph, Booker, Brunson, Halliburton, Murray. Remember I said Halliburton. Okay. Donovan Mitchell. So this is where, this is, this is where it stops from me. Yeah.

This is like, again, I need to say this out loud. I love Jamal Murray. He is the vocal leader. of that team. He is the most charismatic, one of the most charismatic, like, you understand why Jamarne Murray

has been as successful as he is once you talk to this guy. Like, it's incredible. However, I think a lot of his success is based around the gravity of Nicola Yolkich. And I feel like Kyrie Irving could do all of that shit. Like, I truly do. Like, I don't understand

why I should believe that Kyrie is not capable of doing what Jamar Murray does and more to be quite honest. Murray's bigger than him, right? I actually looked this up today at the Chicago thing that he, in Sox, he was 6'4 and a quarter, which is way bigger than Kyrie is. But I think that's the cutoff point for me. And he was like what? Probably 19 when that happened.

So definitely put on some pounds since then. the thing with Kyrie is not how he performs in these games. He's been awesome in the playoffs. Do you expect him to be awesome? The questions that we've always had about Kyrie on this pot in the rankings, every time we think about him as a player in the world are two things. One, what is he going to be within the ecosystem of your team? And I have to say, Kyrie Irving, thank you for reading the ringer.com.

Justin, I don't know if you've noticed, but he's referenced his quote unquote chaos agent label multiple times in interviews this season. I wrote that. We'll have to pull the clip. So congratulations to you. So whether someone who's criminally online. Well, whether or whether or not he is a chaos agent at a given time, this season he's absolutely not been.

Been a great citizen for the Mavs. Honestly, the kind of leader that they need. The other thing with him is always injuries. And this is a guy who even this season missed like 25 games. And that's a relatively healthy season for him. So when he shows up, when he's in games that matter, we know what he can do. We know even in lower scoring efforts like this one,

how important he can be to the shot creation of your team and the threats and the versatility of his scoring. Those are all, they go without saying. It's all the other things with him. And during these kind of quieter periods of his career where he's just showing up and going to work and kicking ass, yeah, he's an awesome player. The other period's not so much.

Just to finish out the list here, so I stopped at Mitchell. Next is Fox and then Jalen Brown, Lillard, and then we have Kyrie at 30. If we were to revote today, I'm sure he would be up a little bit higher. I'm sure we'll update this in a couple weeks there. But he's been about as good as you could ask for this season. His last major season, regular season, was 2021.

He was 13-all-M-B-A with Brooklyn. But to Rob's point, only played 54 games. And then the Boston year where he was second-team all-M-B-A, I think his playmaking was probably best at that point. I think he averaged around seven assists, but then he had the wet fart of a post-season where he wanted to card whoever was. He was Janus.

He called the assignment specifically. And then just bolted for the door immediately. So I think all things put together, this might be Pete Kyrie since he left Cleveland. He's been incredible. And he's been an incredible compliment to Luca in particular. They work so well together. And the combination of the energy that they bring creatively and how all these other role players are able to work off of it without having high usage roles, without having

the ball in their hands all the time. They really have assembled a team that works in so many ways. And it doesn't work without Kyrie, straight up. Like, he has been the exact kind of second star that they need. So all do credit to him for that. He's played great. And he's played great defensively in this series, too. I know we've talked about him kind of checking hard in situations previously.

It's not just that. It's him mucking up passing lanes. It's him being active on the glass. You didn't see him getting floor burns tonight? They called a foul on him a rightfully so. But the guy was, you know, he, He was a freaking Duke Wojo out there, guys. Like, it was insane.

Do we think anything changes going back to Dallas now? I mean, this series seems to flip every time they play a game. But this one seemed more definitive than the previous ones. I'll say that. It did feel that way. But is Maxi Klebea going to continue to be the best shooter of his generation? Is that a thing that's going to happen every game? I don't know.

I mean, the corner threes are wide open, man. Like, it's not like he's hitting the most difficult shots that, you know, that's ever been created in a playoff. Like, this is about as plumber look as you're going to get. And to me, it's more important than these guys, the Mavericks offense, because I think there's a baseline level of competence that we're going to see from them because their stars are actually still stars. On defense, they seem to just be like, we're going to smash these guys. Yep. And that's what happened tonight. The Clippers basically, ever since they went up 30, their offense has been stuck in the mud.

And I have no reason to believe that that will change anytime soon. And yeah, man, the people in the booking offices at the Atlantis and the Bahamas, they need to get ready. To that point, too, when PJ Tucker got into the game late for just the garbage time minutes, he was mucking it up a little bit just with the physicality. He had a few offensive rebounds where it's like, oh, here's finally someone who would go toe to toe with some of these big thumpers that the maps all of a sudden have. But let me stop you there at PJ Tucker got into the game.

That that's kind of how bad this dude. Sure. And they're at the point, they're playing PJ Tucker, Mason Plumley, and Russell Westbrook at the same time in 2020. Come on, man. That's when I knew this game.

Retail who was just like, I'm done. And Dallas does some, they have their own like weird lineups that they roll out there. But in games like this, they work. Right. It's like lively and Washington and Kleba on the floor together. And maybe Josh Green on the wing or something like that. Like a lot of guys who are kind of like borderline shooters, but will hit enough of them. And most importantly, they're doing other stuff.

If they get chased off the line, they're getting into kind of a little floater range. They're following their own misses. They're cutting back door. And as we keep. circling over and over here, they have actual stars to play off of who are playing like stars. And that makes all the difference in the world for those guys. Speaking of stars, playing like stars, you got to talk about the Boston Celtics, marching on after five games against the Miami Heat.

This one was so bad. It was 118 to 84 that at a certain point I started asking myself, if you gave the Celtics an option going into last game, that a win would count for two wins, just so they wouldn't have to play another game. Would they have done that? I think they might have just to get the extra rest days because after that one slip up, this was just like, this was not even an NBA game. These were awful. Obviously, the heat didn't even have Hawkes and this one. They're already down Rozier, already down Butler, but like, woof, Rob. They had more targets on the floor than they had actual threats. That's game over. You just can't win that way. You can't win against anybody, much less Boston.

And it's crazy, you know, the Boston Celtics deployed a defense that didn't involve practice threes for NBA players on every single possession damn there and started kicking the shit out of a team that's missing three of their top five rotation players. It's crazy. I know. Wow. And what did the heat shoot? What did the heat shoot from three as a result of that incredibly inventive strategy of guarding them at the three point line? 10%. 3 of 29

from 3 for the Miami Heat. The Boston Celtics, they were plus 39 on threes in this game. See, if you guys have watched the town, you would know that in the final scene, that they let the cops think that they're also cops to let them in, right?

So there's a lot of mind tricks going on there. And so I have to wonder whether or not just letting the, the heat, like, almost psyched themselves into thinking they can get these shots open was Joe Missoula's long-term plan. It's the opposite of the he's with us, let that guy shoot strategy. It's the we're with you. We're going to let you shoot strategy, false sense of security, and then you close the gaps.

There you go. Who's Joe Missoula's girlfriend in this case? I don't think we should be discussing who the Boston Celtics coaches are dating or not dating. Rob, what did you think about the Thomas Bryant minutes? Noble. Spirited? Spirit. We should talk briefly, though, about the heat off season.

I didn't realize this. He had the seventh highest payroll in the entire NBA this year. They're paying $15.7 million in luxury tax. They're kind of boxed into the team that they have if they still want to keep this core together. And so on the one hand, they do have their own. draft pick and they have been pretty successful every time they've had a draft pick and hand a first round pick, a lottery pick or close to it. They get guys, hero, bam, on down the road, Hawkes. They're one of the better drafting teams in the NBA. So you can just add

another guy and just keep it rolling. On the other hand, I think you have to take a look in the mirror and wonder, like, are we ever going to get Jimmy Butler for a goddamn season? Is he ever going to be healthy for a full postseason? Like, was these are the type of questions, I think, at the very least, you have to entertain going forward. Yeah, absolutely. Look, we always get the obligatory, you know, lebitard to be like, yo, and he's obviously super well connected to the organization. Yo, they're going to try to get a quote-unquote whale. Windhorst, who's also got good connections over there, be like,

yo, from what I've heard, they're going to go big game hunting. So, like, these are credible reports. These are people who are tapped in. They're not making this shit up out of their ass. at the same time. I mean, why should we believe that anything is going to be different? Like, are they really going to go, like, all in on Donovan Mitchell this off season? Is that, does that get your gold?

Like, do you guys get, you know, just a little antsy and excited about Donovan Mitchell down there? More so than Tyler. You know? Well, yeah, I guess that. It's all relative. Yes, relative to Tyler here, I guess relative to scary Terry and the guys that they were allowing to, you know, take over primary ball handling duties at times. I guess that's fair.

I just, I don't know what I'm supposed to get excited for for Miami and this idea that they'll finally pull a trigger and actually execute a huge trade to upgrade the talent on the roster. I know they were without, not just Butler, but obviously also Rosier, also Hawkes, three ball handlers for them in a way that's, you know, they're starving for them. But when the answer as far as like what you have on your roster is, we're going to start Dilan Wright. And in the second half, we're going to start Patty Mills. It's not a thing.

I think that's where I would like to be is a place where you don't have to rely on those guys in that capacity. And if that takes the form of bringing in a different kind of wing star, swing as big as you can swing. So I was looking at their draft history as I referenced before. Can you guys name me the last bad? heat draft pick? I can't pretend to have

key draft picks memorized. It's a... In terms of first rounders you're thinking of? Yeah, first round picks. I can give it to you. What you got? Yeah, give it to us. I think it's Shabazz Napier.

Wow. Does that hurt you to say? You can hate right here. That's crazy. Yeah, a little bit. And I have to say, Shabazz wasn't great, but he also had a pretty decently long career. I think he was a pro for,

like five, six years. So he wasn't like a total bust out in the way that some of these guys don't even make it to a second contract. But other than that, it's kind of sterling. It's Hakez, Yovic, Achua, Hero, Bam, Winslow. And then I think it's ship Winslow. I mean, Winslow.

Wensel had a moment in a playoff series. We all have moments in life, Justin. Well, he sees, he kicked around for a while. James had a moment in a playoff series, you know. Well, I think, Winsel had more of a moment than that. But his was more injury related too.

If you want to go on and the league kind of just caught up to him not being able to be able to be out. Broken jump shot. Yeah. For sure. But it's been a while. I think when they do have the picks, they make the right ones.

So if they decide to go down that path, it wouldn't be the worst idea, frankly. Yeah, I don't think any of us would be surprised if they nail a first round pick or bring in some guys on the margins who are going to help them. It's just more that that's not where they need the most help.

Also, look, man, I think the Jimmy, injury was completely bad luck, right? It's not like Zion with the muscle injury or even poor Zingis and Janus with the calf, you know, it's like a guy fell on his freaking leg. This is a freak accident and it's unfortunate. You know, you got to kind of hope that these guys could figure out a way in this

crummy-ass east and not be in a playing game. You know, you got to believe that they can finish above Indiana and maybe even Orlando, who's got a bright future and stuff like that. But I don't think they need to get an All-Star to upgrade the roster and be viable next year. Yeah, they were viable already. It's just the bar that teams like the Celtics are setting right now is very high.

So could they get into the mix with some of these other Eastern Conference teams? Absolutely. Can they get to the Celtics level without making significant changes. I just don't see how. Yeah, I agree with that. And Rob and I talked about this on Saturday's show, but like, if you do make that trade, then you're trying to get through a regular season where you need Jimmy Butler

to be playing 60, 70 games, right? And so that's a dicey proposition if you want to go down that path. With Fandle, it's never too late to get in on the action this NBA playoffs because right now new customers get $150 bucks and bonus bets with any winning $5 bet.

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expire seven days after receipt. Restrictions apply. See terms at sportsbook. dot com. But we should talk about the Lakers here. We had to send them off into the sunset. And I remember putting something into our group chat slack about LeBron saying he had to think about whether or not he was coming back

or he gave a non-answer, whatever it was. Yeah. And Rob's like, Rob, known for his hot takes and just shooting from the hip, was like, I actually think he might not come back or something to that effect. I've been saying this. I mean, I can't even remember what I've said on this podcast versus off,

but I've been telling people this basically all season. It just feels like kind of a swan song Laker year for him. That is a team that can improve. I'm not saying that they're completely up against the wall. But if you are him, I think it would be fair to look around and say, can I do better than this in a basketball context? Is that what matters to LeBron James first and foremost? Maybe not.

But I do think he can do a lot better. I do think he could have lots of options if he wants them. And I don't think there's anything tying him there other than the convenience of living in Southern California and the family, like, relevant considerations that come with it. So I consider myself a bit of a LeBronologist at this point. Yeah. And where'd you get your degree in that? Twitter. Akron, you.

All of this craziness that happened at the All-Star, I mean, excuse me, around the trade deadline, the rumors that the Lakers were willing to move him, LeBron with the New York flirtation, all of that stuff. I think that stuff was legitimate from both sides where it's like, yo, we could move you if we felt like it. And like, yo, move me. I'd love to. I'd be great somewhere else. And then again, to mention another wind horse report, he was like, yo, what LeBron wants is a three-year max deal this summer.

Okay? So this is what the guy wants. He wants a three-year max deal. They finish out the playoffs, regular season, playoffs. LeBron, say what you want. The guy was freaking great again in the playoffs. Like, he was damn good until the very end of that series. Like, this ain't no Paul George shit going on over here.

This ain't no James Hardin. This ain't like some of these. washed up cats. Like, LeBron was still, like, affecting the outcomes of games in big ways in the playoffs this year. And then, you know, the season ends and my man Yovam Buhat, the athletic reports,

the Lakers are willing to give him his three-year max. So I hear that, and I see the LeBron little cute wink or whatever. It's LeBron still being like, all right, they got the money, but they still, they disrespected me with the trade talk and all of that. So I'm going to do my LeBron drama king situation and milk this and, oh, I got to talk to the family and, oh, I just want to, you know, decompress. And when I talk to my representation, because I haven't talked to my representation at all in the past year about what teams might I be able to go to.

Like, it's ridiculous. I think he's going back to L.A. because they're going to give him his three-year max through his age 42 season. He going to be getting paid $56 million or whatever it is. And look this up today. LeBron after this year will have earned $511 million. You tacked that on that $660 million. Pretty decent money if you can get it. I think he's going to just, yeah, give me the bread.

Thank you. This does have the feeling of a classic LeBron setup, right? He's kind of playing the hits in a way that he was reticent to do in recent years. But I do think, yeah, if he wants the money, if he wants to stay in L.A., I do think he's setting himself nicely to that. And we could talk about who they could get to maybe round out this team. Because I don't think it's as dire as people think they might not get to the Nuggets level. But I do think they could have a pretty good team next year if they make the right move.

What's the package, though? Like, is it just Austin Reeves? I think you have to weigh how much the, how much value the picks actually. have. It's that same old question. It's like, does the league value future Lakers picks when the Brown's going to be old? AD will age out of his prime and you might just have, let's say, Trey Young or whomever with nothing to work with. I do think those can be pretty valuable. You're right. Like, where does the music stop there? If it's Trey at the very least, I think they could be a better version of this team. I don't think they'll probably make it past second round

West finals, but they'll give it a good go and a good go in LeBron's year 40. It's not the worst in the world. That will sell a lot of money for both sides of this, both LeBron and the Lakers. Does it get you into Mitchell territory, for instance? I don't know. I would guess not unless Mitchell or whomever is like, get me to L.A., it's only going to be L.A. and you play the leverage game. Does that sound right to you guys? I guess that makes sense. I, like, they just have trouble scraping together. The contracts to get into Star Conversations at this point. They timed out on the DeLo deal, because as he made clear, he's going to explore his leverage this summer.

You know, sign and trade possibilities could be in the works there. Good luck. Good luck. Have fun with that. I just, I don't see them being meaningfully better. I don't. That's the thing. Do you see them as having the creativity and the know-how to fill the rest of the roster out?

It's obvious they need big man depth. I think it's obvious they still need wing depth. Like, is Rui part of this, these packages to make the salary work? it starts to get just mad. He's one of their best players. I can't watch another year of Rui. I'm sorry. I'm shocked that I'm the person defending him here,

but this is how dire the state of the roster. They played very well because A.D. and LeBron had this group of talent playing way over its collective head. But Rui was among their most defendable players, and you almost need him in a trade to make anything work. I'm going to play devil's advocate here. I do wonder, if you had a more consistent better upgrade over DeLo if the margins thin out a little bit.

Like they probably could have won another game or two maybe against the Nuggets if like they just had someone to swing the ball to other than LeBron. Like when Deelow was just not hitting shots, there just wasn't much to go to. Even Austin Reeves was kind of taking it to Jamal Murray on one leg. If that was someone else who could create off the dribble, like maybe you win another game or two. And so, like, I don't know if it's so far gone. And here's the other thing. If you're spending so much on a dynamic offensive player who's an upgrade on Dela, let's say it's Trey Young, then potentially you could fill out the other spots with more

defensive first guys. Like, maybe you get more minutes for Vanderbilt or someone else. That's a more difficult conversation. But I do think you could almost be super focused on offense with your star and then prioritize defense with the other spots. and maybe the Janga becomes a little bit more easy. I just have a hard time looking at the Western Conference landscape and seeing these three teams at the top of the West right now

who are all playing well in the playoffs and a group of up-and-coming younger teams behind them that we haven't really heard the last of yet. Teams like Houston, for example, are going to keep getting better. Teams like Memphis are going to come back healthier and better. We'll see what like New Orleans, what ends up happening with them, but they at least had a good season and a better season than the Lakers by record. Say nothing about Dallas and the way.

way that they could improve over time. Where do, and this isn't just a Lakers conversation, but a Warriors conversation, but a son's conversation, all of these groups that are dependent on older stars who are not going to play any better than they just played. The sons. Where are you going? Where are you going with that? I'm glad you mentioned this, though, because I agree with you.

I kind of think that LeBron's time in L.A. has run its course. and if you'll forgive me for going from a town reference to what I'm about to say, because this is the most ringer shit that's ever happened. But I do think that LeBron has a Neil McCauley problem. Oh, no. Where he had set up a blueprint where four years and out worked perfectly. When the heat comes down, you got to go. And what happened, Rob, is that Anthony Davis siloed up to.

him at a cafe and was like, what about this book about the medals? And he's like, oh, I guess I'll just stay two extra years. It worked so well. You could call him a mercenary, whatever. Like, four years, you win a title or two. He bolts. Yeah, there will be some terse feelings on both sides when he leaves, but you bank the titles, you bank a ton of money. It works for everybody. he did the same thing with the Lakers and then decided to stay longer that he came down and here he is just like

what do I do? Like he goes somewhere else you pioneered this just do it again. Okay but how does he do that and get paid? Other teams can pay him money and you know not as much as the Lakers but it's not like they can't get

besides I guess if Indian if Indiana wanted to you know do takebacks on the Seacom deal? That's that's not a thing. LeBron King. So, so here are the options.

Sixers have cap space. Yes. Seems unlikely, but, you know, there's an easy slot for you. And the other ones would just be trades. He opts in any trades, ops in and extends down the road. So he uses his opting ability to leverage the Lakers into facilitating a trade.

I guess so. And then it's like the Warriors, the Knicks, maybe the calves, that one seems a little less likely. Y'all know how I feel. Warriors and Nix would be mana from Evan. Him and Steph, the two old hands, the two old gunslingers

trying to stay off all the time together. All right, Justin, you got to chill, all right? The fire hose with the pop culture references, yeah. Trying to stay off all the time. I did not. I could tell. quit. I love the heat one, especially because the heater involved.

I love the Golden State idea because I think him and Steph can figure out any single basketball situation that is presented to them. Between the two of those dudes, like, as far as offensive basketball IQ, like, sign me right up. Like, that, Steph doing all his offball stuff around, like, LeBron. driving and kicking and, oh, like LeBron just getting all these wide open looks, LeBron being his pick and roll partner, like, this is just,

this is easy for me. And then, you know, LeBron in a Knicks jersey, could you imagine LeBron in these Nick games against Joelle and them in the garden? Could you imagine watching that? That would be, M'A, Chef's Kiss. Now, you know, again, LeBron Ologist cap comes on.

Rich Paul, CEO of Clutch, did have that power lunch with Leon Rose and World Wide West to smooth things over. You know, at the deadline, which, you know, some people said that could have signal the, you know what?

Because fucking Rich Paul was working at CAA. He kind of left to start the clutch thing. They felt betrayed. There was like a little beef. It's kind of frosty. Whatever. They've been like, yo, look, man, clutch guys can play.

in New York. Now, obviously LeBron's not their only client. He's not the only person available for trade or free agent. So it could have been about anybody, but, you know, there might be some credence to that. But like, yeah, the Golden State of New York, that's just, that's so easy for me.

Why don't we have more power lunches? I feel like I'm out here having regular ass lunches all the time. Come out to L.A., man. We'll have a power lunch every day. We'll go to Cachonis. No problem, brother. Here's my question. If the Mix are setting up a pitch video for LeBron this time around. Sopranos characters aren't obviously available.

Of course. One of them. Who's making the sales pitch? Is it the guys from Shoggan? Shocked John Stewart? That'd be good. It's definitely not them. I don't need, and that's the thing.

I don't even know the New York relevant cultural figures even are now. Jay J. Reddick? Brooklyn. Hey. Hey, listen. The only snack for me is like LeBron playing for Tibbs. That just, that's a tough one to square. That is tough.

I agree. It's exactly the kind of thing that would happen all these years later, though. You know? That's tough. I think if Tibbs was like, look, you and Jalen Brunson are going to just take over the offense and I'll shut the fuck up, but y'all got to just, you know, do what I say on defense. maybe, but, you know, it's not as if the next offense is that creative, y'all. I mean, do you guys watch these games?

Is Jalen Brunson picking roles and nothing else? I mean, you know. I do think these are the routes, though. It's less about who has the cap space and more about opt-in and extend. That's kind of the route, I think, for a lot of these teams to get into the LeBron conversation, if you want to have it. But, well, we'll see. I'm skeptical that he'll be back, but I've been very, very wrong.

I'm not a Lebronologist. I'm just taking the field. If it's LA versus the field, I'm taking the field. But do you like one of them more than any of, like the fit, for instance? I mean, the fit, Worse, fit-wise, there's lots of interesting options, but it's about what is LeBron willing to entertain? Warriors is probably the most interesting one on the board.

Just watching LeBron and Steph on the same team for two seasons even. Sick. Who plays Chris Paul with LeBron James and just like, okay, yeah, that works. I can see how the mechanics. so that might work. Just turn whatever this Amazon MBA packages into just the Warriors channel. Just play all 82 games. I think you would do gangbusters.

We're just giving away free marketing ideas now too. Free trade ideas, free marketing ideas on top. And where's a think tank here on group chat? Or maybe we should just stream them on the Ringer MBA YouTube page. Now we're talking about. Let's look quickly, though, on the other side of that Nugget series because it's setting up probably, if not the best, best series in round two, then maybe one of the best series we're going to get this entire

playoffs between the wolves and the nuggets. I'll say I realized that I had Stockholm syndrome when on Monday the ringer Zach Cram had an article just kind of like pointing out that the nuggets have trailed like 75% of these games. And I was like, oh yeah, they really haven't played that well, huh? It's just like, because all I'm thinking about is them coming back because I'm around you two sickos. So proud of you. Obviously, they overcame that. Go ahead. But, you know, there's just cause from concern.

On one hand, Murray has, what, 32 in that game, hit two of the biggest shots in first round memory, dunks on LeBron with one leg, and yet is, like, kind of getting picked apart by Austin Reeves at times on the other end there. And so KCP also had an injury. Seemed like Reggie Jackson. pushed himself to play in that game as well.

So, like, things are starting to mount here where I'm just like, I don't know. And the wolves, God damn, that's probably the last team you want to play. Oh, yeah, it's a meat grinder over there. You really got to be in good physical condition to bounce around with all those bigs and to contort in all the ways you're going to need to contort to get around Rudy Gobert and through all of those arms. And, you know, where Jaden McDaniels is in that series matchup-wise, I think it's going to be fascinating because there's universes in which it makes total sense just to put him

on Jamal and smother. him out as much as you possibly can. If that's the case, that's a tough assignment to beat on one leg. Yeah, the defense part is very worrying. I think on offense, the Murray and Yokic mind meld, especially like you see when push come to shove

at the end of the game, they're just cranking out incredible offensive possessions even on a bad wheel. Like, I don't worry about that, but like just to mention, guarding people on defense for 40 minutes against some of these more physical teams, these huger teams, especially, you know, Minnesota Timberwolves, I definitely think about.

And I said this already on Twitter. This is the Western Conference Finals, as far as I'm concerned. I have no doubt that they will take care of the winner of OKC Dallas. No problem, either one of these teams, because I just think their size, talent, physicality will just be too much for those other two teams to overcome. So I think this is the series to watch in the entire Western Conference playoffs. And so, yeah, I think Minnesota can beat them, especially a hobbled Nuggets team. Minnesota's confidence is out of the roof.

And confidence on offense is just nuts right now. And I think, you know, I think Rudy is Yokic's best one-on-one defender. Obviously, I don't think he's going to stop him or it's going to be like, oh, my God, Yokic is having trouble getting buckets. but he's going to have to work his butt off to score against Rudy, you know. And so I just think they're just, I've thought this all year that the wolves were the Nuggets best matchup and I continue to believe so. And I think it's going to be a frigate slug fest.

Well, it's really the one-two punch as far as Rudy on Yokic and also Kat on Yokic sometimes with Rudy roaming behind him. And everything that that can take away and, you know, you have to manage the Aaron Gordon dumpoffs that come with that. But the wolves are shown they're pretty good at it. They're pretty good at kind of walking that tightrope with him. We talked about how LeBron was so good at getting downhill against the Nuggets and just like how he looks spry at times.

I mean, goddamn. Anthony Edwards doing that. Like, good luck. And now I think this is like a pretty clear cut series where Ant should be the guy. This is like the place where you take the leap. And this also gets back to the question of like,

let's see some of the high level processing stuff that you're starting to pick up against a team like the Nuggets. Like LeBron was so good at like, even when they were in transition and he knows. Yokch kind of trailing back. He pushed on him at certain times. Like he wasn't running, but he would run in spurts and in certain windows because he knew he can get it on Yokic.

And like that sort of stuff, I would love to see from Edwards because I do think there was like real holds in what Denver was doing defensively that if Ant is up to it, he could expose. Yeah. There's kind of the dual test for Ant in all of these series and all these matchups, but the nuggets are very high level one. One is how do you manage a game? how do you pick your spots over the course of a game,

make sure everyone is involved, how are you passing out of doubles and pressure, and when are you getting rid of the ball, and how are you getting it back? That's one threshold that he has to prove over and over again every time he comes into a new series. The other one is when you get into these dead heat situations with the Nuggets,

tied game or close enough with five minutes left, it's not about can you beat the Nuggets defense, it's how are you going to out-execute the most ruthless execution machine in the NBA? Because that's what Denver is in those situations. It's not that they will beat you on one possession or they'll stop you on possession.

They just keep rolling over and over and over. And Ant has to be able to produce consistently in those pressure-packed moments against intense defense and not be settling for what are sometimes his shots, but like some tough jumpers that may be fading or leaning that if they go in are great, but if they don't, the nuggets are running the other way.

Yeah, and I think that's the final, one of the final levels anyway for Ant is that as great as he already is, he's not on this, you know, manipulating the defense, two passes away, like reading everything, understanding when exactly to push the issue and when to sort of let the offense do what it has to do.

Like, he's not that level of processor yet, right? Like, obviously, Luca is at the highest level, but you see Luca against defenses. And at a certain point, he's just processing on an, completely different level. It's not there yet. Obviously, his physical tools, his motor, his, you know,

his just desire to beat people can make up for that stuff in spots. But I think against the Nuggets, the wolves are going to have to keep their shit tight. You know, like, the mistakes are going to have to be at a minimum. And to me, that's where the Nuggets,

man, just have that slightest of edge is that we just know they're going to make the right decisions, pick the right spots, you know, take advantage of the right moments where it's like freaking, like, this is what championship teams do. When

Yokic has that play, I think it's game three, I don't even remember at this point, game two, I think it is, where he tried to do the nasty Chris Paul foul grift threw the ball out. Freaking Aaron Gordon somehow saves it right to Michael

Porter Jr. Cash. You know, like, Just teams don't do that in those spots. Teams aren't marching down where they should have just already given up on the outcome of the game in those spots. And that's where I think the wolves just have to, the focus has to be laser, laser sharp.

What I love about- Razor sharp. Sure. Laser-focused, razor shot. I don't know what I'm doing anymore. We're almost an hour in, so we could wrap this soon. But I think what I like about Ant so far

and hopefully going forward is like, We always talk about the face of like the league. That seems to be a popular conversation that a lot of people have. And my basic sort of response to that is like, kind of know it when you see it. A lot of it comes down to celebrity, but I do think it is, I guess, like the definition of pornography, like you kind of know it where you see it. You know a cross shop when you see it. Yeah.

100%. It's just like he just has everything that you'd want from it. I mean, it reminds me a lot to keep leaning on these Hollywood men. metaphors and references that I keep going to. The way that someone is able to like just capture your attention and focus, like you just can't look away from him. It just has that intrinsically. And so it's like, yes, is he great?

Yes, potentially. Is he just like picking up on things that he hasn't before? Yes. But like I'm just like a core level. You know that this guy is a guy and that you just want to keep watching him. And I do wonder if he's like already kind of becoming the guy. I want to, outside of Wembe, honestly, I think he's the guy. I want to watch more than anyone else.

And this is the shit that we live for is seeing those guys in those spots come up against the great teams and prove themselves in that kind of context. That's what the playoffs are all about. Yeah. And you know, there's the thing about face of the league convo for me. You know how some people would be like, not my president, right? Well, for me, Ann Edwards, he's my face of the league. Whether the league or whoever, whatever wants to push somebody else or something else,

I don't care. for me the face of the NBA and the future of why I will care about this sport super passionately is Ann Edwards and it's so many things but like so all those international players not your face of the league no not my face of the league no not my face of the league hashtag not my face of the league who's who's Rob's face of the league I don't know I'm agnostic I'm like I'm a big ten over here I think the league can have many faces And I welcome them all. Sonti Aldama for facing the league. Let's get the grassroots movement going. But yeah, no, and I know you guys saw the press conference

where he's basically playing the role of Cat, Carl Anthony Towns, who's five or six years older than his freaking dude, been in the league way longer. He's answering his questions at the press conference as if he's his dad. And, yo, and the coolest thing about it is like, it is so emotionally intelligent that he's like, he says the stop fucking fouling line.

And he's like, because he's our best offensive player and we really need him. And you see what he does when he's out there. Like, he presents all these problems. He does all these things. He even does the savvy thing where he lies and says, Carl Towns knows how to pass. Like, I'm like, yo, this guy freaking gets it.

he is just imbuing his guys with so much energy and confidence and just enthusiasm. Like, it's awesome, man. And, you know, I will say as much as I do love with the OKC guys, it feels more organic than some of the OKC. How dare you? That's fair. How dare you? All I'm hearing is that maybe with all due respect to Mike Conley,

maybe they gave the Twyman Stokes to the wrong teammate, you know, maybe aunt. He's out here lying in front of God and everybody about, about cat's passing ability. He's like, he could take it off the dribble. He could do it off the catch. He can pass it. I'm like, all right.

See, sounded like that Twitter right there. Yeah, you did. This is why I gave my vote to Waz. You know, I make these bullshit heat references. And he's like, let's go. He knows he needs me for later in the playoffs. Well, you know what I need you for later in the playoffs, Justin, is, you know, you've made a lot of commotion over the last year about the easy route that the Nuggets had to their title.

And I just want to flag There's a lot of commotion I want to flag this ahead of time for you You know We're coming out of a first round Where the Celtics just beat a heat team missing Its best player And two rotation players

They're going to play Whoever comes out of the sludge factory Between the Cavs and the Magic And then they're going to play either the Pacers Or another team with major injuries So I just want you to keep that same energy If and when the Celtics make their run And honestly even if they beat Denver

Those guys are just phonies who had a cheap route to the title too, you know? Well, Robert, if you remember our conversation when we talked about this, I was specifically bringing it up to compare it to the current Eastern Conference. So, in fact, I agree with you, and I'm on record. And if Isaiah wants to dig up the tapes in order to show that, I give him free reign. Extra work now. Okay.

Wow, wow. And Sam wants to dig through old episodes at 1042 Pacific Time. He's welcome to do so. But no, I agree with you. And I think honestly, if the Nuggets win a title after this run, give them fucking five titles. They'll finally deserve your respect. Yeah. We'll see about that.

I mean, you could have the hardware. You don't just get my respect. Like I said yesterday, Tyrese Max, he became president that day for, that'll be Justin's version of that. That's when the Nuggets finally become president. Yes. Yeah. You got to win two titles. And then we'll have a conversation.

And I swear to God, if the Nuggets win the championship, um, this year. year again and make themselves legend, you better come up here and cry like Van Jones. I swear to God, bro. No, I want him on the float. I want him on the float crying like Van Jones. I hope I, I hope you guys are ready for what happens when the Celtics win.

Like, it's going to be insufferable. Not just for that episode, for entire year. I'm already planning out, like, where are we going to have this meal? What am I going to wear? So we're just going to be accessories. you know, the Latvian Walt Chamberlain's calf injury. That's just, I've been told

he is the key that unlocks the dynasty. He the key that just does it all. And now it's just like, oh, championship. We're already counting it. Okay. It's a tough one. I pray for Christos Porzingis his solius every night before I go to bed. Why don't we

wrap it there? We'll be back. Saturday night for game one of Wool's Nuggets and whatever else comes about. We'll talk to you then. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll talk you soon. Must be 21 plus and 18 plus in D.C.

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