The Ringer NBA Show - Arcade Fire's Win Butler on the NBA, With Kevin O'Connor (Ep. 140)

Episode Date: September 28, 2017

The Ringer's Kevin O'Connor is joined by Arcade Fire frontman Win Butler to discuss the influence of Hakeem Olajuwon (1:30), the state of the Rockets (4:00), the beauty of the Spurs (8:00), beating Matt Bonner in a 3-point contest (11:00), the Pelicans' potential (12:30), the rise of Canadian basketball (18:30), and the idea of "sticking to sports" (24:00). Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Welcome to the Ringer NBA show. Today I'm your host, Kevin O'Connor. It's September 15th, and I'm in Boston at the Garden. In a couple hours, Arcade Fire will be playing a rock show, which I am super stoked for. But first, I'm sitting here in one of the dressing rooms with the front man from Arcade Fire, Win Butler, who you may better know as the MVP of the 2016 Celebrity All-Star game. We're going to be talking some basketball today. Win.

Thanks for joining me today, man. How are you doing? I'm great. Nice to be here. So you grew up in Houston. Yeah. Born in California, I believe, right? I was born in Northern California. I moved to Houston at five. And so I grew up in Houston, kind of the height of the Elyche Juan years in Houston.

So that's, that was my complete basketball education. And I was, I signed up for YMCA basketball in fifth grade. And I just was just randomly assigned to a team. And my coach was like, man, this guy's really intense. And I kind of learned much later, like a few years ago. I didn't even put it together, but that he had played at Princeton. And so it was kind of like running some Princeton offense stuff with a bunch of fifth graders. So it was like I didn't even know why I just got this like really intense basketball education like in fifth grade without even really knowing.

He could have just been like some guy's dad. Yeah. He could have got a coach like that. Exactly. He was my friend, my friend's dad. And I was like, but then I realized, I kind of realized. later, that was kind of what he was kind of teaching us. But yeah, Kim Iliguan is like bigger in the Beatles for me. Like, like I learned about, I mean, even just seeing him play, you just knew he

was from somewhere different. The way he moved, everything he did. Played soccer up until age 17. Yeah, but he's like a dancer, essentially, you know, and the way that he plays is so artistic and so creative and his kind of footwork. I kind of see dancing more than I soccer even just because it's like it's beautiful it's kind of in the hips and it's like kind of misdirection but it's um so yeah for me that was my what got me into the NBA for me was like really related to art like watching it and play was so um yeah and it kind of you know I know about felacuti because about Akeem-lajuwon because I was like where's Nigeria like where's this guy from and you know like I learned about like that was like

my first exposure knowing like where Africa was or what because I certainly wasn't learning in like Texas history class like they weren't really skimped over European and African history. When you were that age, well first I have a stat for you. You're 22 and 11 at the All-Star game Celebrity All-Star game this year. Hakeem's averages for 21.8 points per game in his career, 11.1 rebounds in his career. So you're right on target with Hakeem. I mean, his numbers that have been a lot higher. He kind of like, he had that Toronto season. Like, he kind of like, yeah. He had some big, big ears. How much, how much of an influence was he on you? Or has he, did his playing style almost like influence you in other ways too? Because he said he's bigger than the

Beatles to you. That's a big thing to say. Yeah. I mean, it just introduced me to the beauty of sport and to like really support a team and be kind of all in on every level, you know, because like some teams are amazing teams, but it's kind of ugly to watch. And like, there's no like, I don't know, I've always really gravitated towards players that really have a completely unique playing style that like you, I mean,

that's why I loved Rondo in Boston, just like from his rookie season. It was like, behind the back moves. He just did shit that like no one would think of. And just even his physicality was so different. And I've always kind of gravitated, more to those sort of players, you know. In today's NBA, one of the kind of outlier teams is the Houston Rockets with their playing

style in today's league. They had, they probably started what was one of the craziest summers in the NBA this year, acquiring Chris Paul before July 1. It's two ball dominant point cards, James Hardin and Chris Paul. What's your sense about that dynamic? Do you feel like those guys can coexist in Houston? What's their upside as a team with Hardin and Chris Paul? Well, Chris Paul is so competitive and hates losing so much and has lost so frequently.

Yeah, they're the modern Utah jazz. When it really matters, you know what I mean? And you can just tell it's like kind of crushed him. Yeah. And so I think that if they just win a little bit, it's going to kind of open up his game so much because he's so creative. And so, I mean, obviously, like Chris Paul can shoot the three lights out if he get, you know, which he doesn't necessarily look. for um i don't know i mean i i have never liked dwight howard i found a really difficult to root for the rockets when he was on that team just because it's like so painful to watch

yes everybody who's ever watched dwight howard has felt that at least at one point you're just like well you're just like with the gifts physical gifts that guy had you're just watching in place like he insists on playing in the low post still you are a horrible low post player like he was great at one point, though. He was sensational at one point in his career. I mean, it's easy to forget. No, he was with Orlando. Yeah, but it was still like, I stopped watching the NBA during the Shaq years because it was so boring. Really? Like, it was just like the kind of dominant, like. Is today's style kind of a dream for you then? I mean, seeing, so like the Rockets, they lead the league in like layouts and threes, quote unquote, moory ball. Seeing the way teams are shooting more

three is moving the ball around. You mentioned you stopped watching during those years, but has this really been the peak now? Or are you still like all about 90s basketball with Hakeem? No, no. I mean, I think the year the Spurs beat Miami that finals is probably the best basketball I've ever seen. Like just when you just take a team so much less physically gifted against like LeBron kind of at the peak of his powers and just like just embarrass them, you know, just with, complete perfect team basketball.

That's probably the best. I mean, for me, that was the best series of basketball. I was just watching not even believing. I hated the Spurs growing up. Like David Robinson, not my favorite player. Duncan? No, not young Duncan. My wife and I, when we started watching some of those like Detroit,

when we were first stadiums like Detroit and San Antonio, and she always called them. the saddest man in basketball because he always just looks so sad. Like he just like, like, what do you, come on, man. Prick up a little bit. Like, come on. He just looks genuinely sad all the time. But I came to respect him so much, like just pretty much from that season. Um, like, I, I remember talking to Matt and I can't remember the exact detail, but it was like they were kind of, the whole season, they were trying to get to a point where every time you received the ball, you had point five seconds to either shoot pass or drive.

Okay. And so, like, they were basically practicing all season. So it's like the second the ball touches your hands, you either pass a driver shoot. And that in that finals, they actually got to where that was their average. Like it was like 0.5 seconds of people touching the ball before doing those three things. It was, it was like this great YouTube video. Like if you search Spurs, beautiful game or something like that, just them whipping the ball around, just launching threes, attacking closeouts.

You know, for layups, it's just like six minutes, seven minutes of pure beauty watching that. So let's say fantasy land right here, Daryl Mori, General Manager of the Rockets, calls you up in February. He says, like, win. Forget about the celebrity game. Just forget it. I want you to sign with the Rockets. But first, I need you to help me convince ownership that you're the right guy for this roster spot. What are you telling Darrell?

How can we beat the Warriors? How are you going to help? With my game? I would just be on the bench. I would be... But you're getting minutes. You're getting 12 minutes for a game out there. How are you helping?

Well, defensive rebounds, which anyone can do, like literally anyone can defensive rebound. You're 6'4, so a little small for NBA size, but you rebound well for your position. I can rebound against big guys. It's really not rocket science. Boxing out. Boxing out defensively, it's like they have to jump over your back

if you do it correctly. Yeah, just be that and probably just corner threes and fouling people like getting my 5 fouls in, you know. Okay. You did beat Bonner in a three-point shooting contest before. I did. It's one of the, maybe the high point of my basketball career. Bonner, 41.4% three-point shooter. If you've, if you've looked at basketball reference of like minimum 1,000 threes in their career, he's like top 10, top 11 in the NBA.

So I think that's one of your selling points. Mori likes stats. So put that stat out there for Daryl That might be your case That was more of like a psychological Situation because I was just working him all day And Bonner's not really used to being in the spotlight You know what I mean?

He's like more of shadows guy So it's like when all eyes are on him Oh yeah He just choked a little bit He was the star in the gym that day It was like the moment I've been waiting for my whole life So You mentioned Hakeem was an influence on you

Then in today's NBA Not a lot of dominant big men but one team in New Orleans, Pelicans, have two of them, Anthony Davis and DeMarcus cousins now. What's your sense of that team in the additions they made this summer? They signed Rondo. They signed Tony Allen. Drew Holland is going to be pushed off ball. I have my thoughts, but first I'm curious to hear yours about that team and the roster construct and they're upside this year.

I mean, first of all, AD is like a once-decade sort of dude. I mean, that first celebrity game I played in New York. seeing him, I think it might have been his first All-Star game. It was kind of like Giannis this year it's like you just watch him playing and you're like, oh shit.

This is like an evolutionary like just he was the only one I saw that whole thing. And I've seen him do like I'm I sit courtside New Orleans I'm like I've seen him do some things that I only ever saw Akeem do

like he almost got a quadruple double it was like 40 point points, 18 rebounds, eight assists, and eight blocks or something in the first game or something like that. He has the potential to do it. So he's, I just feel so lucky to live in a town where I get to watch him play on a regular basis. And I really like Boogie. Is he going to help AD though? Is he going to put them into the playoffs so it's like Anthony Davis isn't thinking about going somewhere else once his contract is up in 2020?

Well, first of all, the trade was extremely good trade, because I, the buddy or whatever, Buddy healed. That ain't happening. He could be solid. He could be good, but Boogie is a transcendent player, is what you're saying. That's a no-brainer trade. Can you co-win, can you win in today's NBA, though, with so much spacing, so much ball movement, so much shooting with two big men who, neither of them are great three-point shooters?

Boogie's not a great passer at all. Boogie's a decent He's decent. He's decent. He's decent. But neither would that team, my fear is this, is that you have a team that's better built for 1997 than 2017. That's my fear where maybe they do sneak into the playoffs.

Yeah, but it's not baseball cards. So it's like you kind of get the opportunities come up when they come up. It's not a fantasy league. It's like, it's like Oklahoma City getting Paul George, Southwarkening. They had to take boogie. when they could. They had a gamble. You have to do it. And the thing that I noticed, because I was at the first round, the last time Pelicans were in the playoffs against the Warriors. And basically,

whenever they would do that small ball lineup, and AD was playing, they would smoke the Warriors. So it's like, AD is like basically the ideal small ball, big guy. He beats up Dremont Green, too. He beats up Dremont Green. He beats up Dremont Green. Like, it's a joke. He's one of the few guys in the NBA who actually can. Draymond cannot check AD in the slightest. And AD probably changes more three-point shots. I've never seen a big guy block as many three-point shots as AD does. Like, it's crazy.

Excellent permanent permanent defender. I think, you know, like he's like, Boogie. Boogie needs to buy in. Yeah, but here's the thing. I mean, it's kind of about a minutes thing. But like the thing that's cool, when they're both on the court, they haven't figured it out. When they're subbing for each other, it's insanity. You have one big going against backups.

Because your backup is like the other best center in the league. And so it's like if they get those rotations right, it's just kind of like this relentless thing. And I think that they should do more minutes like that. Or it's like you're like, and it would also kind of help with 80s injury stuff too. Or it's like he's playing not as high a usage and just like relentlessly attacking.

Because it's going to be an advantage against, they're two best big guys in the league. Like there's no one that is, like, like, like, is crazy off the dribble. How about a pick and roll with, I mean, they did this a couple times. That's what I left a party in the season. Pick and roll with either Boogie or Davis handling. Yeah.

I mean, great passer. I mean, I'm sure he's a great dancer. Sure, yes. Yeah, I'm sure. Like he. I mean, he's name is Boogie. Yeah. He can at least dance a little bit like he Kim on the court.

Yeah. Maybe not quite as well. I mean, his skill set is so peculiar because, like, he's like, so big. and quick, and then he is, like, the lowest vertical in the NBA. You can't jump at all. He's, like, but he's got that insane crossover, and he's, I don't know. And I love Rondo, like, yeah, they're definitely not built the way a modern NBA team is supposed to be built.

I'm worried for him. Yeah, I mean, rightfully so. I'm worried that at this time next year, it's right now, it's September 15th. We're talking about Anthony Davis, how he's, how he's going to look in a Boston uniform or a Philly uniform, something like that. I'm just worried. I mean, people are still talking about that crap anyway. I mean, it's like, it never ends.

I mean, that's the next target. He's the next guy that teams will target. Yeah. So which band is the greatest threat to defeat arcade fire in a battle of the basketball bands? Pearl Jam, the War on Drugs. Are there any surprise bands up there? Have you had any battles against other bands? No, I mean, it's really just me and my brother that play in our band.

I don't know if there's another one, two, and a rock band that could play against those. So 2-1-2. Win and Will Butler can take anybody? In a band, yeah. I mean, I haven't really played any musician that's that good. Okay. But there's a couple decent players out there. I mean, there might be some.

Who would be your third three-on-three tournament? You and Will. Anybody that's surprisingly good? Father John Misty can play. Oh, really? Yeah. Surprisingly, but he definitely played at one point. Does he talk shit?

I would imagine I would love to hear Father John Misty talk shit on a basketball court I think I want that more than anything else She kind of does talk shit I would say But What how is how does father John Misty

I don't know if I want to say in character When he talks shit Josh Tolman Like as as father Yeah I can't speak to that I mean he definitely can't play me But he could play in a pickup game It would be fine

When you move to Montreal In 2000s Or 2001 was Tracy McGready still there at the time? That's a good question. Was that the summer he left? That was right around when he left, yeah. So that year you moved there,

Rick Fox was probably like the greatest Canadian player of all time. And the league has obviously changed a lot since then. Steve Nash has gone on to become one of the most influential point guards, greatest point guards ever. We got Andrew Wiggins, Tristan Thompson, Jamal Murray, R.J. Barrett could be the number one pick in a couple years. Kelly Olenic even just got paid $50 million. From when you moved to Montreal 17 years ago to now,

how have you seen basketball kind of change in Montreal or in your travels to Toronto? I mean, how have you seen it change in Canada? I mean, I live in New Orleans more these days, but my league that I plan in Montreal is a much higher level than New Orleans. I mean, I'm not saying across the board, but it's like of a general quality. I think in Toronto is just as simple as Vince Carter and McGrady got people really excited about basketball in Canada's and Toronto is a huge

metropolis and so there's a whole generation of kids that grew up knowing, you know, like wanting to play basketball and having an example. Vince Carter is, it's pretty much just Vince Carter, like, who's responsible for basketball in Canada. And Steve Nash is like the weird outlier. But yeah, it's interesting. You like look at a guy like Steve Nash. He's like from Western Canada, like not.

the most athletic player ever played and and you just see the amount he was one of the few guys that like got better into his 40s like into his late 30s and 40 like he would improve every year pretty much um and then in phoenix they really revolutionized the game but then you're like you're like oh this you can really accomplish so much with hard work but like basically his dad's like a pro soccer player like he had the genetics another guy with amazing footwork like he came incredible footwork so quick like court vision seeing the court slightly differently so um yeah he's he's a really amazing dude too i really like him a lot is one of your greatest what-ifs in basketball if t-mac had stayed and played with vince carter i mean that would have been that would have been really

cool you know it's one of mine yeah i think i still think about that sometimes especially with mcgrady going to the hall of fame now yeah and mcgrady in Houston, like they didn't get past the first round until he got injured, you know, so I don't know what was going on there, but, you know, it was a weird one, you know, for a player of that. One of those great players who just never won a title, never wanted the highest one. That brings it back to kind of the Chris Paul where, for me, you know, there might be questions about how they fit on the court, but I think Chris Paul's willingness to go to Houston with a guy

who just had one of the highest usage rates in the league in really recent memory. I think that shows a willingness to change. And I think that's really one of the keys for these star players that joined forces in today's league. With so many people getting together, USA basketball players, they need to be willing to really sacrifice. That's one of the key things. Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like a coaching issue, too. It's like you have to get those dudes to really buy in and play within a program, you know? So I don't know.

It'll be interesting to see. I mean, I still think the Warriors are going to win for 100 years. Nobody's beating him this year? No. Who's the team that has the highest chance, Houston? San Antonio? There's zero percent chance. Nobody? Does that ruin your enjoyment of the game?

Yes. So for a lot of people. I have a personal goal to watch less NBA this year. Oh, really? Just because knowing the ending. It's like knowing the ending of a movie, right? Yeah. because I did it last year in spite of knowing.

There's so many variables, though. There's so many variables. Injury is the only possible variable. Unless there would be nothing more than a tweet angle. There would be nothing more satisfying to see a team take down the Warriors. So that's my thing. When you have a juggernaut like that, for me, I mean, yes, they have a higher percent chance to win than any other team in sports to win their sports championship.

But if that team loses, nothing would be crazy. It would be like when the Patriots lost at the DHS. Giants back in 2007 when they were 18 and O going to the Super Bowl. Like nothing was sweeter for a casual fan than seeing that team lose. And it would be like that if a team knocked off the Warriors this year too. So for me, that makes it work. For the journey and all the stories. Maybe next year.

One more year? One more year. It just ain't happening this year. There's not a chance. There's always a chance. Always a chance. No, it's not like they're like Seattle Supersonics like losing in the first rounds. It just ain't happening.

You're on the road right now. Infinite content tour for your album, everything now. It's your third straight album to go number one on Billboard. The band has worldwide success. And yet, well, the funny thing is, is I'm sure there's a lot of people listening. They know Win Butler more as the celebrity All-Star Game MVP in 2016, the three-time champ All-Star Game, three straight championships.

I was Rob last year for political reasons. Yeah, I mean, 22 and 11. Those are big-time numbers. I mean, three years in a row. I think that's the all-time most points scored in a celebrity game. Eight and 12, 2015, 15 and 14, 2016 in the year you won MVP. And then 22 and 11, while wearing Jimmy Hendrick socks this year in New Orleans. So there's a lot of people who are like, who's Arcade Fire?

I know him as the All-Star game guys. Yeah, there were a lot of politics in that last one. I don't think they wanted to give me the mic. I made what I thought was I was played for Team Canada in Toronto and we won obviously but then it's like what do you do to talk trash to an American team

if you're on a Canadian team and pretty much health care is your go-to and so like I just made a comment about Maybe Putin? Poutine's pretty good. Yeah but you can buy that shit in New York so healthcare is kind of like our Trump card and so it's like we just won

beat the USA in Canada and so I, you know, mentioned about how the U.S. could learn from Canada about health care. And it was just like immediate cut off. Like, it was like. Watching that on TV, I remember thinking like, oh shit. Sage Steele just stole the moment from Win Butler. And you kind of didn't really, you were kind of emotional standing there. But like, what was going through your mind?

Like as the mic was being pulled from you and you. I wasn't that surprised. I mean, I mean, her politics seemed pretty obvious. definitely like more on the conservative side. I think it kind of turned on her when she was like complaining about people protesting at the L-A-X like protesting immigration. Like, oh, I miss my flight. This is so annoying.

Like, okay, lady. What's your take on that whole stick to sports, stick to music mindset a lot of people because I'm sure you've heard it. I mean, you've probably been heard, wait, just stick the music. Just play the hits. It's fucking total bullshit. I mean, it's like it was like the run up to, you know, like, the most, the craziest election of my lifetime.

And now, like, basically Mussolini is president. It's like, that's now in the past. So it's like, if you have, like, a minute of a spotlight and you can't say anything, like, I don't know. I mean, you know, I don't, I mean, it was kind of spontaneous. I wasn't really planning on saying anything, but it's kind of the spirit of the moment. Listening to everything now, especially when the single was first released, for me, I felt like it was probably the best depiction of 26.

of any song really released this year. I know you've said in other interviews that you can't wait until this album has looked at without context. But listening to that song, especially the album, was kind of how societies evolved the last three, four years, a major influence on the way you wrote this? Yeah, I mean, you're always trying to put your finger on understanding the situation that we're all in to a certain extent. Yeah, I mean, that was a song that probably had like 35 verses at one point and cut it down to three verses. I could, you know, could have written like an hour long song. What about the kind of subject matter? But yeah, I mean, yeah, it takes us a long time to make a record.

So it kind of, it's, we're in such crazy times right now. It's kind of, I kind of live through 9-11 being in Canada and the kind of bush years and kind of some major. political ups and downs, but this is definitely, like, you kind of, you get desensitized to how insane it is, but it's really like, especially when the news hits you every single day. Every day. And getting pummeled by it's really interesting, like, because we're playing in Tampa and Miami in a couple weeks. And obviously, like the big Houston storm and kind of, I found that during the Houston storm,

the only way you could get any real information is just calling friends that live in Houston. And we're like literally just trying to see if we're going to be able to play in Tampa in a couple weeks to try and get actual information. The way the media and the news is now is so crazy because basically like elections and terrorist attacks and storms and stuff. That's basically what keeps seeing them on the air and all these networks. Like that's kind of how they get paid. And so I remember seeing a headline that was like Irma changes course. and it's like it's a hurricane the course of it is where it goes like that is its course it can't change course

because its course is where it goes so it's like that's not valid viz of news and so it's like trying to like suck people into like clicking on all this crap and it's you know it's not like these benevolent the people that are kind of controlling all this stuff it's not like it's like this benevolent thing. It's like we're basically just being mined for our data and it's it's it's just a really crazy time, you know? Yeah. It's not and it's not like peace and love vibes. It kind of reminds you of like 1969 like you know, war in Vietnam and like the kind of it really feels like one of those times where America's really like in a moment of trying to understand even what it is.

that one of the reasons your brother will is putting out those disco town halls. They're kind of the after parties on the tour where you guys are talking to organizations, activists, politicians. Yeah, it's trying to just wherever we are do something locally. The first one that he did was in New York and it was like someone talking about closing Rikers, Rikers Island prison. And so a bunch of fans and half of them don't even really know that there's a political bent to him.

They're just kind of showing up. Yeah. They're like, what is this weird after Friday? We're like, someone's talking about Rikers Island. You try and find the balance, you know, like we wouldn't do that in Arcade Fire show because they're just shouting out song names.

We exist. Yeah, it's like you can't exactly. Crown of love. It's easier to do just people to choose to be there. But also like a very few people that are very motivated in a very local context can make a tremendous amount of difference. And so I,

I don't know. I mean, I basically, my radio head and the clash and all these bands I listened to when I was a kid really ended up changing my view of the world. As a kid from suburban Houston, like kind of opened up my perspective on the world and made me more curious about the world. And same thing with Akeem, you know, like watching him play. It's like you just become curious about the world outside of your little bubble of where you are. And so to me, that's all for the greater good. It seems like a good place to end. We get to wrap this up, win because you get a show to play.

But one last question for you. You have a break in the tour mid-December until April. Is that break strategically there so you can play in your fourth straight Celebrity All-Star game? You know, if I get the invite, I think it's in L.A. this year. It is in L.A. Yeah. I wouldn't go if it was like in somewhere lame. Okay.

Don't want to say any cities, but. Don't want to pick on anybody. Yeah. It's in L.A. I mean, you want to be there. I mean, I hate L.A., but it's easy to go to L.A. The weather's nice. I'll be there out way.

That's where our ringer's offices are. I'm excited for it. It's really, I mean, it's such a pleasure as a fan to go to, I mean, to go to that thing because there's just like so many people milling about. And when I was in New Orleans, it's amazing because it's like, in New York, everyone just gets in a black SUV and disappears, but in New Orleans, like, it's so small. Then I met, like, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar just on the street in the French quarter. Like, everyone's kind of walking around.

and it's pretty special. It's a different city, that's for sure. One last thing. This will be my third time seeing Arcade Fire. I saw you guys three years ago. Saw you guys last month at Lollapalooza. Seems like this tour there's a lot more production. What can fans of the band expect to see from you guys on this tour?

I'm extremely proud of this tour. It's the production is kind of the craziest we've ever done. And we're kind of doing it in some smaller cities. We're playing New Orleans. And we're playing in a lot of cities that we haven't typically played in. And so, yeah, I think that if you're, this might be the last show of this magnitude that we do for a very long time.

So if, like, people are curious to see what our band's like. I think it's a, we're playing about it as good as we've ever played. So, you know, it's a young man's game. So I would say check us out now. Hey, man. Roger Waters still going at 70. Yeah, I do. But it's not the same as the 60s.

Win. Appreciate you taking the time, man. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening. And thank you again to Wynn Butler for Mark It Fire for joining the show. I had so much fun talking hoops with him, and I really hope you enjoyed it as well. Follow Wynne on social media at DJ Windows 98. And please give the Ringer-N-B-A show a rating, five-star rating,

or whatever you listen to our podcast. Peace out.