The Ringer NBA Show - Are AD and LeBron Better Than We Expected? Plus: Hipster Team Watch and Best Young Duos. | Group Chat

Episode Date: November 13, 2019

We are three weeks into the season, and LeBron has seemingly unlocked Anthony Davis. However, are the Clippers still the best team in the West? (1:15). Then, the enjoyment of watching the NBA’s “hipster” teams like the Hawks, Suns, and Grizzlies led by Ja Morant, Devin Booker, and Trae Young grow into established units (18:45) before we highlight some of the NBAs best up-and-coming duos (43:00). Hosts: Chris Ryan, Justin Verrier Guest: Jonathan Tjarks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Today's episode of the Ringer NBA show is brought to you by State Farm, just like basketball. The Game of Life is unpredictable. Talk to a State Farm agent and get a teammate who can help you navigate the unexpected and help you handle whatever life throws your way. J.V., I was watching Trey Young last night. And I would imagine if you were an Atlanta Hawks teammate of his, you'd have to be ready for whatever.

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More players should have Trey Young's hairstyle. The Utah Jazz name actually makes sense. Basketball is very good. Hello, and welcome to The Ringer NBA show. It's group chat. We are in a new location at the first. the ringer offices. Nobody cares about this, but very or so on his back heels right now. There's like a crane in front of me. I don't know what's happening here.

What's going on? It's Wednesday. We're going to be talking about some deeply held personal beliefs, which I think will center on the Los Angeles basketball teams. And I'm not talking about UCLA or USC. Not yet. No, not yet. We're also going to have sharks on and we're going to talk about hipster team watch and some of the best young duos in the league. But JV., let's talk just to like sets and picks, man. Let's just like run some sets. Yeah. Pendowns? Let's start to show some deeply held personal beliefs. Tell me something you're feeling right now. All right. This one might surprise some listeners, especially the ones who have been in my Twitter mentions throughout the week. The Lakers fans, when they're on top, are persistent. Let's just say that. And I don't want to

give them credit for, you know, affecting my opinion on this situation. I think I would come to this opinion pretty naturally, and I think most people would after watching the Lakers this season. I think that the Lakers would pick the Lakers over any team in a playoff series. Yes. I'm not necessarily saying that they would win every playoff series. I'm not necessarily even saying they're the best team in the NBA right now, but you look at what they have, and it just seems way more complete than I ever expected.

I don't know if it's a referendum on how seriously people take you or eye. because I definitely said that they were going to go like five and ten in their first 15 games, but you seemed to be getting all the heat for it? Yeah, I mean, we brought it up on a follow-up pod, and perhaps that's the one that people gravitated toward. Oh, the one I wasn't on? Yeah, exactly. Yeah, man, let's talk a little bit about the Lakers.

They look really good. Now, I do think that there is a kind of honeymoon period going in terms of the way in which this supporting cast is interacting with Davis and James. Sure. But all the early returns on AD and LeBron, is it better than you even expected? Yeah, especially this early.

I think everyone, maybe not everyone, definitely not the guys that might mention over the past week. What are some of the guys, like, what kind of Twitter handles they have? It's a lot of like Lake Show, 235. You know, LeBron and A.D. is like the name that shows,

but not necessarily their handle. Right. I love when people do that. Because that's almost like when you do that for Halloween, and stuff. Like, you're kind of a loser, but, like, when you do it for LeBron and AD, you really got to check yourself.

Yeah, so they have been playing particularly well. The chemistry is there. It seems like they get along off the court. It definitely seems like, as we talked about last week, LeBron has entered this stage of being deferential. He seems to be in a different mode. And it's shown in the early goings. I look this up.

He's assisting when he's on the court, 50% of the Lakers baskets, which is incredible. And it's a career high for him and close to his last season in Cleveland. I think there are similar situations where he felt like he needed to get everyone else involved in order for the team to thrive. But I've been most encouraged by over the past few games that everything else is filling out around them. First, it was the defense. Their number two overall, Zach Cram wrote about it for us on the site last week. it seems like that's sustainable.

Injuries might affect it, but they do seem to have something there. Even LeBron seems a little bit more engaged. AD is obviously a monster when he is engaged on the offensive end. But then last night you see Kyle Kuzma steps up with 23 points, and they just have more than I thought. They're taking the best shot. I think for the most part, they are taking teams best shots. You could tell that game meant a lot to Phoenix last night.

Phoenix lost 1-23-1-15, but it was like basically a March Madness game. I think there was like 29. 28 lead changes. It was an absolute slug fest. But the two things that you see are when they want to get a stop, they can. Whether it's coming from LeBron being more keyed in or this collection,

this specific collection of veterans that they have, being guys who have made their careers essentially off their defense, like Danny Green and Avery Bradley. Vogel clearly has a good defensive scheme for this team. They're getting good minutes out of Howard. And, you know, at the, end of the game, it felt like all the lanes

closed down. It felt like everything got tight enough. And if Booker wasn't going to shoot Phoenix to victory, that was going to be that. And that's exactly what happened. Davis and James had 45, 15, and 19 together last night. And the thing that's really been popping out for me

is how seamlessly it's gone from, okay, how are these two guys going to work to James is seriously like unlocked Davis. Because you can tell that even though Davis is bearing a lot of responsibility and is playing a lot of minutes and, you know, is doing the classic Anthony Davis is headed to the locker room with multiple medical officials,

but comes back out because of a ribding. He feels like he's playing freer than you ever saw him play in New Orleans. In New Orleans, you almost felt like everything he did was weighed down by like, if I don't do everything, we're not even going to be in contention for a win, much less a playoff spot. Whereas on the Lakers, you can just feel there's like an extra. little wrinkle of whether it's creativity or freedom or just the lightness to his game that is honestly kind of astonishing to watch. Yeah, with Anthony Davis, we said when they first linked up, he and LeBron, that LeBron,

despite his just prestigious career, had never played with a big man like Anthony Davis. He had Kevin Love, Chris Bosch, both potentially Hall of Fame players, but... Floor stretchers, basically. That's what they were relegated to, yeah. Right. They were the ones who sacrificed in the big three. AD now has become the focal point. And LeBron, whether it's because of the team situation,

the fact that he only has one other superstar teammate, or his age, or maybe he's pacing himself this season, he has definitely fed into the idea that Anthony Davis is the guy. And I think that's what Davis has needed the most throughout his career. I think Davis, and I've said this before a bunch, I think Davis is deferential. Yeah. And so they found this good mix where LeBron is the emotional leader,

but Davis is the best player. It's pretty clear. I mean, like, there were even plays last night where, like, there was this one where, I think at the second half at some point, Davis was just, like,

essentially playing point center and was hitting, like, guys on back doors. He, like, hit Dwight on a back door pass that I was just like, how the fuck does he see this? Like, how is he, how is this real that we're seeing Anthony Davis, like, playmaking from the top of the key like this?

I'm sure he did that in New Orleans, but there's a certain, like, obvious, like, energy to it around the Lakers stuff. Yeah. There's also a trickle-down effect, I think, from LeBron to both Davis and then the rest of the team. Yeah. Where it feels like it's a team. It's not just a bunch of kids running around anymore.

Yeah. The same thing with the sons. It seems like there are adults in the room. I think that's had an effect that, like, you just couldn't tell from just looking at this roster on paper. Yeah. I mean, I think that there are ways in which they, because these guys are a lot older, there is a, like, an injury bug that could hit this team to the extent. that you believe that those kinds of things can actually happen. But if three guys go down on this team,

and if any one of them are Davis or LeBron, it's going to be a tough stretch. And Davis is already dealing with a right shoulder injury. And I think they're about to go play 12 of 15 on the road, right? Yeah, they're on a big road stretch. He's also, I think, he got bruised in the rib last night. So these things tend to add up for Davis in particular. And if he misses like five games over the next 10 or so,

they're going to rely on LeBron that much more, which puts him, yeah. I mean, we don't have to get into load management, but that's certainly a thing. One thing I noticed last night was that the Lakers, I believe, closed with A.D. and LeBron, Alex Caruso,

probably the sixth-most-mentioned NBA player on this podcast, Kuzma, and I think Bradley, I think Bradley was the last guy on the floor there? I think that's right. So that's their final five, or was there a final five last night, to close out a game that needed closing out.

That is why my deeply held personal belief is that the healthy clippers are going to win the finals and it's not going to be that close. Wow. Yeah. I was watching watching the Clippers

this week and watching the way that they shut down games with that lineup of Kauai, Lou Will, Montrez, Jamichael and Harkless, but in a couple of days

it'll be Paul George and Jamichael Green. Yeah. That's, I don't know how you solve that puzzle. You've basically got two of the best one-on-one players in the NBA in Lou Will and Kauai. The Lou Will-Kawai pick and roll up top seems basically unguarded.

If Jamichael Green can just be a kind of effective outside shooter, that's like basically like that that is the perfect final five in the modern NBA right there. Yeah, the scary thing is they've done all that they've done this season without Paul George. Yes. And it's such a flex that in the first. first game back for Paul George, Kauai isn't going to be there. They're actually staggering them in game

so that Kauai plays one. He's ducking Brandon Ingram. Yeah. Exactly. I want to go through. I want to watch every game that Kauai doesn't play. I want to write like a who is Kauai ducking column.

Uh-huh. You know? You don't think it's what's his name. Kendrick Williams. Yeah, it could be that. Kenny Hustle on the Pelicans. He saw some to Kiel Alexander Walker highlights on YouTube and he was like,

I got to stay away from this. No, I'm just, I think I'm, we came into this season and we were like, oh, this is going to be so much parity. Anybody could win. I think anybody could win. But I think when I watch the Clippers, I watch a team in control.

I watch a team that, you know, if they're down eight, if they're up for going into the last five, six minutes, I don't think the other team has a shot and I don't think, and I don't, and I think that they can get back in any game if they want to. As long as Kauai is healthy. And that was a Raptors team that they beat earlier in the week that didn't have Lowry and didn't have a Baca, obviously, and Siakum had like an okay game.

I'm sure the three are connected. You know, but the way in which the clippers finished for me was like one of the most subtle statements of intent we've had so far this season. Yeah, Kauai has approached this season like he's the dungeon master. Yeah. Like he will go into every game and he will almost exert himself as much as he needs to. It is fascinating watching how meticulous he is and how just like how his long-term vision for the entire game and the entire season affects his just individual decisions

in that moment. He also seems completely impervious to bullshit. Right. He doesn't, they asked, you know, the NBA find the clippers for whatever, it was a healthy scratch or whatever. Right. And he's like, I, that seems insane. And that is it.

There's no second day of the story. There's no extra conversation. There's no, like, is this whole thing getting in Kauai's head? How's Kauai going to share the ball? ball, it's nothing. Nothing seems to be attaching itself to him. And as watchers of the NBA, you can see how that crap really does affect people. Trey Young had 42 points last night. The first thing he did was start talking about haters. You know what I mean? Like, and I don't necessarily think that affects wins and losses or

like dribble to dribble. But the way in which Kauai is like, all the bullshit is in a box somewhere and it's not even in my house is kind of like, in some ways, one of his best greatest accomplishments. Yeah, it makes them less interesting, which is probably a problem for the clippers. There's definitely like a Popovich thing going on with both Kauai and the clippers where it's like they don't want

attention so much and they're so pointed about that, that that has become their thing. Yeah, city views over interviews, streetlights over spotlights. Right. Yeah. I am interested though. I mean, Kauai did handpick Paul George

to come with them to the Clippers. I wonder how those crunch time situations are going to play out because it does feel like when Kauai wants to take over, he takes over, and then everyone else is kind of ancillary. But I think within the game, the perception is that Kauai is, if not the best,

one of the two or three best NBA players. So Paul George isn't going to be like, man, that was my turn. Yeah, I think it's easier. It's not even like Russ where you're like, oh, I'm sitting to Russ because he's essentially like the heart and soul of this franchise. It's like there's no real argument to be made that you should be, taking last second shots. Sure, but Paul George is at a different state of his career than LeBron James is,

whereas there's that natural order that's been established with LeBron and AD, I think, because LeBron is at the twilight of his career, wherever he is, the pre-Twilight, whatever we want to say, and A.D. is rising to his peak. Kauai is at his peak, and Paul is probably at his peak, and it worked with Russell Westbrook specifically because Russ deferred to Paul. Now, I'm not saying that Paul isn't at a point where he's willing to do that. I mean, he did sign up to do this. So if anything, I would expect him to be fine with Kauai.

But they're both like still, like he was an MVP candidate last year. He was the top 3 MVP candidate. I know. I know. That's such a weird combination to like throw together. And if it all does work out, it is going to work great. And I do love this kind of the difference in the team building that's like we've talked about it for a while now between the Lakers and the Clippers.

But now that the Lakers look as good as they do, it's going to be fascinating to watch these teams at full track. Well, because that was the thing, right? Like, when the Clippers beat the Lakers on opening night, it was kind of like, yeah, but this is just

dress rehearsal, and it's all, and, like, AD likes their chances in a seven-game series, and the regular season is all about tuning up your game. And then the Lakers go off

and win, what, seven of their next eight games or eight of their next nine games. They've lost one since, yeah. Yeah. And so now, like, the next battle for Los Angeles is actually going to be

between the teams, teams would probably among the top records. I find the way the clippers are managing their season to be like pretty remarkable just because I honestly don't know on a night-to-night basis based on like the reaction of NBA Twitter you can't you wouldn't know whether the Clippers won or lost. It's like it's like just happening. It's such a like silent, perfect hum. They are kind of taking on the personalities of their organization. Yes. Clippers are taking the long

approach. They're steadily building up to the playoffs and they've been saying all along that's all that matters. That's how they've managed quad. That's how they manage Paul George with that in mind. The Lakers, meanwhile, they want to make a statement. They want to make a big splash, and they've been engaged, and that's helped, I think. The fact that they really do want to go out and show that this team is for real. But on the other hand, there is that shred of doubt that, yeah, Anthony Davis does get hurt a lot. LeBron James, is that at that stage of this career, do they have much after those two guys? And so we will see at the end of the season, which approach really, like, won out.

I think we'll find out pretty soon. I think we're going to find out on this Lakers road trip. Yeah. Because people are going to be pretty jeed up to play them. and I think it'll be a really interesting road trip for them. So Justin and I have been talking about these two LA teams, these two teams who we think are basically in the driver's seat, I guess if you can share a driver's seat for the title.

Let's settle this. We're going to go heads, Lakers, tails, clippers. Hey, Google, flip a coin. It's tails. Congratulations to Los Angeles Clippers on their first NBA title. They did it. Yeah. Let's just cancel the podcast.

Coming up next, we got Jonathan Sharks. We're going to talk about some young. up-and-coming teams in the NBA. Before we move on, let's take a quick break. The Ringer NBA show is brought to you by Fandall Sportsbook, now available in New Jersey, Pennsylvania, West Virginia, and Indiana. Fandall Sportsbook wants to know what you'd bet if you knew you couldn't lose. What are some risky bets that might pay off, Justin?

So Justin and I have a bet that I felt really comfortable about when we made it earlier this season. Yeah. And I feel like you brought me into your warm, these really warm eyes, And you were like, go ahead and do this, Chris. You got this. So he and I bet that Ben Simmons would attempt more than 25 three-pointers this season. Yeah, he doesn't seem like he's on pace to do that, right?

Nope. No. How many three-pointers has he attempted this season? Zero. Okay. So here's the thing. This isn't just a thought experiment. It's for real.

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I guess the hipster teams. I don't even, like sometimes I don't even know what we're talking about when we talk about hipster teams. We need another word for hipster. We need the hipster word for hips. Yeah, because hipsters now aren't cool. Yeah. I mean, they weren't cool in the mid-2000s or whatever,

but, like, hipsters' idea is, like, it's pretty played out. So it's like, these teams are not played out yet. I think it got played out when Noah Baumbach did a movie about hipsters. So in 2000 and, like, do? Yeah. Yeah. Sharks, did you watch the Lakers and the Suns last night? I've actually been on Grizzlies watch lately, so I missed that game.

I didn't see too much of it last night. Well, we're going to talk about the Grizzlies. We're going to talk a little bit about the Suns, too, and a couple of other teams that we feel like, they're all between like six and four and three and seven. But one of the nice elements of this season has been tuning into watch teams like the Hawks, the Suns, the Grizz,

teams that maybe you didn't have very high expectations for, and getting to see some pretty exciting basketball on any given night. Last night, the Suns were really interesting. They were like right in it with the Lakers the entire game, held the lead I don't have a dozen times for all I know because there was like 28 lead changes. and I really kind of like had a revolution watching them

which I tried to bounce off of Kyle Mann and he was like I don't know if that's exactly the case but hear me out so if you want to know why the Suns used to be bad you should watch their second unit now because when the game started last night Rubio Baines Booker so they have this like incredibly balanced

starting five that makes sense everybody knows their lane everybody and these guys like Baines and Rubio are, and Sarch even at this point, been in the league for a couple of years now, and they kind of know what they are, and they kind of know what they're supposed to do on a starting five. But then you watch the second five come in eventually. They stagger a little bit, but for the most part, you know, you get in there and it's McKell Bridges, it's Tyler Johnson, it's Cam Johnson, Frank the Tank, and then a five, depending on who they bring in, but it's usually like a booker or somebody from the first five. But when you watch these younger guys

who have less experience, but also are in, like, different points in their career where they're not sure what they're going to be yet. I mean, I think Mikhail Bridges projects as, like, a really effective role player

if everything works out for him. But I was watching The Suns last night in this sort of late first quarter, early second quarter, with this unit, and Bridges didn't get the ball for like five possessions. And then you could see

when he finally did get the ball on the sixth possession, he was like, I'm fucking scoring right now, or I'm at least shooting. Because, like, I don't know when the next time I'm going to get the ball is. I don't trust this team. I don't trust that people aren't going to forget him out of me.

If I don't score, do I fall out of the rotation? I'm, like, projecting a lot of anxiety onto him right now, but you could see it in the way he played. You could see that he was like, I'm running up and down the court, I'm not getting the ball. Cam Johnson's shooting every time he gets it, which is probably what he's been told to do by Monty Williams, because he's a good shooter.

But this just means, like, I run to the corner and never see even the faint hint of action. And I was like, this is what happened to Bender and Chris and Jackson. And this is why all of these lottery picks, when you bunch them all together and they're like, well, what am I supposed to do? Because we're all thinking we're making our career in these first few seasons here. We're deciding who we're going to be. And you basically lose any sense of team cohesion because it's a bunch of guys out there trying to win a contract on any given possession. Now, that is like a very simplistic way of looking at what was obviously a very dysfunctional organization.

They moved out all of those guys. I don't think Bender, Chris, and Jackson have the same story or the same skill sets or the same problems with their skill sets. But do you see what I'm saying, Justin, about this idea of like when you add in this like, not even veteran, but just like guys who know what they are, it just like equilibrium. Like it brings equilibrium to the entire team. Yeah, the team has chest hair now. Yeah. They were. That's a much more effective way of saying what I just spent a minute saying.

Yeah, it's kind of like the Lakers. Justin's a noted chest hair expert. I've had my share of battles. You know, kind of like the Lakers, they were a team for the past couple years, a bunch of kids running around, playing at pace, trying to outscore the opponent, Devin Booker trying to score 70 or whatever it was in the given game. But you're right, it does feel like there are adults in the room. Not only a guy like Baines, a guy like Rubio, but Monty Williams,

who has a history of raising the floor of teams. The thing that I think is really fascinating, and it's something that Charks brought up in his piece about the wolves and Carl Carl Anthony Towns early in the preseason, it seems like teams, maybe because the Big Three model has been spread out, teams only have two or one guy, they're leaning into more of their best player,

and that is the identity of their team. It's kind of like the Hardin model, more than the Big Three model, where the Rockets first, in order to bring out the best of Hardin, they moved them over to point guard, they brought in shooters and Ryan Anderson and Eric Gordon, and then went to the extreme of that

where it's basically Hardin is is isoing 60 times a game or whatever, it seems like the Sons are doing a similar thing where they brought in guys specifically to prioritize and feature Booker. Absolutely. Charks, what have you been seeing when you watch Phoenix? Well, the question for Phoenix now is,

so yeah, they have the structure around Booker, all these veterans, but the problem is like none of those veterans can really carry lineups without Booker. So if you like Rubio out there or Baines out there or Sarac out there as the main guy, it's not going to work. So with the Sons,

when Booker's in, they're plus 11.7, and when he's out, they're minus 8.5. So it's like, how do they buy time without Booker on the floor? What I'm thinking they might want to try doing is taking Booker out earlier away from the other four starters and letting Booker carry the reserves. Because if you play Rubio in reserves, if you play Baines in reserves, it's just not going to work, really. And then you've got to hope when Aiden comes back, he can be that guy. So, yeah, I mean, we got one game of Aden, and he's the question mark.

And he's probably the thing that decides whether or not this is like a sub five, like a just sub 500 team or maybe even like worse than that to maybe above 500 and maybe a pesky team that's like up and around the eighth seat. Yeah, they're still relying on a lot of things that you would expect to not carry like past the next couple months. Aaron Baines is shooting 50% from three. Ricky Rubio is shooting 40% from three. He was out of his mind last night.

Rubio was basically Booker last night. And so you would expect those. things to kind of trail off and you do wonder how they replace that. I guess the flip side of that is yes, even though they got rid of all these young guys, Josh Jackson, Bender. Chris. They still have this like glut of young guys who could and should in theory be coming up behind these guys.

The McHale Bridges' Aiton. All these guys could step forward. Cam Johnson played a really good. I know there's been a lot of Cam Johnson jokes going around since that draft picked, but like his shot is so pure. Yeah. It looks incredible. He's doing exactly what they need him to do.

And he obviously has a green light. Sharks, I was curious, of that group of TJ, who is very, having a really good pacer season right now, Bender, Chris, and Josh Jackson, who's the guy out of that group that you're most surprised is not, like, it didn't catch on? I think Josh Jackson, just because of his size on the wing,

his athletic ability, even though he's not a great shooter, you kind of figured he'd find a role for himself. And it seems like with him, a lot of the issues were off the court. Memphis has basically banished him. Even though he's playing well in the G League, they're like, we don't want you around right now.

So I just feel like with Josh, he's just so talented. He can do so many things. Beyond shooting, he can do so many other things. You would think in the way the league is now, a six-eight guy with this kind of athletic ability and his feel for the gang would find a spot somewhere. Why did they lose T.J. Warren? Did they trade him?

They were clearing cap space to get. that was dumping the contract to the Pacers. Yeah, the off-season machinations that brought them this team are pretty flawed. The roster they ended up with is working, but they did all sorts of things. Yeah, because Rubio was because they didn't get someone, right? Didn't they go for somebody and missed and then took Rubio instead? I think they had been rumored with... It was Conley, wasn't it?

They had been rumored with... It was DeAngel. That was the guy. DeAngelor Russell. That's right. And they didn't get him, so they went after Rubio, but they needed cap space. So, like, instead of just stretching, just stretching, Josh Jackson's contract.

They traded him and they had to bring in Corver and wave him. It was a lot of just, like, dumb decisions. Yeah, but they, like, I mean, you can see how much Rubio and Baines have completely, like, changed the, like, kind of tenor of the team when they're out there. Sure. There's so much more physical. And I would say, too, trading A Reza for Kelly Ubrey, that was, like, the biggest win they've had so far.

Like, that trade looks pretty amazing right now. I mean, he's killing it. I knew sharks he's going to go there, but yeah, he's right. The wizards in that instance were kind of the fool there. We all thought like, oh, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, like the Brooks thing, you know, these teams don't know what they're doing. But the sun's got Kelly Ubrey basically for nothing. He's a reason it was going to walk at the end of the season. Yeah.

Charks, you mentioned Memphis who are currently, they have Josh Jackson in exile. But I know that you've been watching a lot of gris. So why don't you tell me a little bit about why you're so excited about this team, even though they're three and seven. I'm doing a big profile on St. Mark's Lion, Taylor Jenkins, my old high school teammate. So that's why I've been watching the Grizzies a lot. In terms of their actual on-court ability, really it's a two main guys. John Morant and Jared Jackson, they're really fun to watch. The rest of the team is kind of in flux.

It's just not very good. But Ja is killing it. Ja is leading the rookies and points and assists. He's holding the ball a lot. He's playing like Deer and Fox, I feel like, where it's super fast, up and down. He gets where he wants to go. He's a great passer. Jaws one of those guys in terms of pure speed,

you can't stay in front of him. He's just so fast. And he's really smart, he's really smart, skilled player to finishing inside. And then Jaron, Jaron, I think, he's struggling a little bit in this new system, but the skills are there,

and he's dribbling a lot more this year. Like, he'll take the ball off, rebounds and push up the court himself. He'll take it off to dribble. He shouldn't step back three. He's like, the future is really bright in Memphis. This team, though, probably not as good this season.

Yeah, the thing I like about Jha and surprise surprise. I really like Jha. He plays with... You were right, Justin. Thank you, Chris. I was waiting for that. All that scouting you did on that tape of course. It's like blink. It's 10 seconds. Make a quick judgments.

Right. No, he plays not only fast, which is a lot of fun to watch, but he plays with the spirit of like the point guard that you want to rally behind. Like the play I always like keep turning to is that block he had on Kyrie Irving at the end of regulation that ultimately spurred the Grizzlies to a win overtime.

Yeah. Like, that's that guy. And I think it's fun for the team to rally behind them. Yeah. So, I mean, Phoenix and Memphis are both on the other side of 500 from one another. But, you know, there's a bunch of other teams out here, young teams that I think are actually pretty, pretty interesting. Like, did you guys get a chance to watch any Hawks last night against the Nuggets?

Ooh, I saw some of that. Trey's killing it, man. Jesus. Hey, did you guys know Trey Young's pretty good? Tom Ziller had a really good news. this morning about Trey, just talking about how he had an 8, 8, 8 and 8 game,

eight made threes, eight made free throws, at least these, and at least 8 assists. And the only players with more than one triple-eight game, Curry and Hardin,

and then Ziller kind of like wrote about whether or not Trey was more of a Hardin Acoly or a Curry accolite. Man, I mean, last night was a real, if that had been against,

if that had been on national television or if that had been against maybe a higher profile team then Denver, no disrespect to Denver. You kind of feel like that would have been like a bit of a Steph game, a bit of a breakout game for Trey, because it was an example of like how he changes the geometry of the court in a way that even I don't even know if Steph does.

The book, because it's not just his shooting, which is happening essentially from just inside of half court, but some of his passing is almost as as breathtaking. Yeah. Yeah, I think Paula wrote about this in his feature on Trey last year. year where like I think people think of Trey as just a shooter but his passing is what carried him in those kind of down months when he started his career which he I believe was trying to remind us of the fact that everyone got on him last night when he sent out that tweet after the game it it feels like there's a little bit of a recalibrating happening to the Trey hype it seems like everyone was on

the bandwagon to start with then he got hurt and then I think it brought us face to face with the fact that the Hawks probably are a year away that there really wasn't much He had that dog shit summer league, remember? Yeah, sure. Did he have like a really, like, I think if I remember right, it was like, he was missing a lot of shots, and people were like, this is got like a little bit of bust flavor to it. Just top notes of bust. Totally, totally.

But then this year, he seemed like he was ready to just capitalize on his strong finish last year. But then he got hurt. John Collins is now suspended. I think we're starting to see that the Hawks are probably playing for next year yet again. But in the meantime, he comes back and he's able to do these things that like, no other player is able to do. It's fascinating, especially when you, like, he and Luca have become the two biggest

watches for me, personally, this season. Charks, I think this is going to sound stupid, but he reminds me a little bit of Leonel Messi when I watch him. Because part of it is the way in which his game seems to exist in the chaotic moments where most players would fall apart, but he is essentially trying, like, his whole thing where the experimental becomes the regular. His dribbling where he'll just be on a fast break,

leap up in the air, and kind of pot commit to having to make an incredible pass, almost to like force the pass to happen. Some of his dribbles, like he does knock on dribbles the way like a winger and soccer would kick a ball down the court and then run past the defender to it. Like he kind of does that in fast breaks where I'll see him like almost like dribble ahead of a guy and then just beat him to the angle to get back to the ball. And especially with he's messy like in the way he uses his balance. The way he kind of rides a player who's trying to like dislodge him to bump him a little bit.

He'll use the bump as a new angle to find a pass or a shot. What do you what are you seeing when you watched Trey, Charks? Yeah, I mean, the game is really easy for him. And I think going back to that question as Diller said about, is he a hardened or a Steph? To me, he's definitely a hardened. If you look at so, time possession of the league this year, number one is Luca, number two is Trey, number three is Hardin. And it's all like, they all have different styles, but it's all the same outcome. All three of those guys create threes off the dribble really easily, and they can pass ball over the court for other threes.

So they're like the most like maximized efficient players. It's either free throws, layups, or threes for them, or threes for their teammates. And so their teams always have a chance to win because they're always created. in good shots. They shoot from so far away. It doesn't really matter how you guard them. They're getting their shots whenever they want it. And it really just kind of feels like

Luca and Shrey are changing the point guard position forever. Yeah, it's kind of the best part of the season so far. I mean, there's some parts of the league where you look around and, like, I mean, no disrespect to DeAngelo Russell. But I don't really like watching DeAngelor Russell score 42 points

with like Eric Pascal running next to him and then they just lose. but there is these opportunities out to here for young guys, whether it's Luca, Trey, as Charks was pointing out, Jaron Jackson and John Morant in Memphis, where it feels like the keys have been given to these guys

at a young age. I mean, there was a time in the NBA when dudes like this would have to essentially be on the bench like learning their trade for a couple of seasons before they really emerge. You wouldn't really expect a guy to pop the way these dudes are popping now. We're talking a lot about these, like, Phoenix and Memphis, we've talked about the teams themselves.

We're keeping our conversation largely to Trey here, Justin. What do you think of the Hawks in general outside of Trey? I was never a huge fan of the approach they took in the draft. We'll just be the Warriors approach? Yeah, but also that they were trying to fill specific buckets on their team in their second draft, essentially, of their rebuild. And to me, that seemed a little bit too early. DeAndre Hunter seems like he fits a lot of the advanced

numbers are favorable for him, but you just kind of forget he's there a lot of the time. He seems like at best, like a fourth option. John Collins is obviously a player that I'm very high on, Kevin Hoarder. The Red Velvet is always near and dear Joe. I think Herder. That's fantastic. Hurder she wrote is so much better than Red Velvet. I know what they call him Red Velvet on the broadcast.

I guess. Do better, Atlanta. I think I was skeptical also of some of the veterans they brought in to fill out their depth chart, but the one guy that seems like they hit on was Jabari Parker, who's really just stepped up in John Collins' absence. Yeah, Charx, have you kind of caught Jabari fever? I mean, he is who he is. He's a big old guy who jacked shots constantly.

And I think they need that with John Collins out, but to me, he's probably a sixth man on a good team, but there might be this next year in Atlanta, so it's fine. Still can't shoot threes, but he's doing something. Justin, who's your hipster team? Is it the gris? Do you have another one? I mean, the grids are kind of it. Are the wolves considered a hipster team?

No. Are they too good? I think the wolves are like, are they the pacers of the West? You know what I mean? Or are they more than that? It really depends. How do we feel about the hornets? That's hipster for sure if you want to get on them.

Yeah. You guys, I'm going to clear out for you guys here, the two-man game. I'm going to stand in the corner. Charks, do you want to go ahead first? Yeah, I mean, I think with Charlotte, the big thing is, for the first, First time in a long time, they're making good draft picks. So since Cupchacks taken over, his three picks have been Miles Bridges, Devante Graham, PJ Washington.

And all three guys are playing really well. And it feels like they're actually drafting well, scouting well. Devante Graham is just killing it. He'll take Scary Terry's job pretty soon. Yeah, Devante Graham has been just a revelation. I really didn't know much about him before the season, but now he's putting up, I think, like 35 points the other game. and besting the Pacers in overtime,

a team that is very near and dear to our hearts on this podcast because one Malcolm Brogden plays for that team now. It's just there's a little bit of like spursiness to this team where they have Borago and he's bringing out the best of some of these guys that you've never heard of before. You didn't really know that they were in the league. They have these two twins that I don't know who their names are. Is that the Harrison twins?

No, it's the Martins. There you go. Oh, is it the Nevada kids? Yes. Oh shit, they're on the Hortits? Exactly. Wow. I only watch the Sixers game in the season so far.

And there's an incredible clip of like just one on the bench and all of a sudden a second one comes and joins in. What the fuck's going on? But like they're getting more out of these guys than you ever expected. Now they need a lot more. You could definitely tell in so many situations they need a Kamba or anything in like the vicinity of a Kamba. But they've been feisty. And that's like as much as you can hope for. a team that's really just trying

to do whatever it can as it like weights out all these toxic contracts on their books. To me, this is a team this is the Lamello Ball team. This franchise needs excitement. The languishing for Lamello team. This is the one I think that really they need something like that to get them going to get a profile.

You get Lamello here also they're a big deal really fast. This is exactly what a hipster team is now. This is the team that nobody actually watches. But your league Pass just obsessives

favorite blogger watches the Hornets? I think that there needs to be a baseline of entertainment level

for like a hipster team. I mean in some ways like the warriors have become a hipster team again now

right? They have been they're trying to make it they're trying to make Eric Pascal a thing. That's a good one. Any other

I guess like the last team that I would throw out there just because they were a little bit contentious with the Sixers

last night was the Caps who in some ways are similar to, they're doing the thing in reverse to what Phoenix did. Like Phoenix had a youth movement

and then got rid of the guys that they didn't want, built everything around Booker and why they're either on purpose or by accident brought in some veteran leadership and some like know-how around Booker. The Cavs obviously kind of had the LeBron Go-Ship thing going

but have now brought in Sexton and Garland to be their back court of the future or maybe one of those guys will catch and the other one won't. And then they still have Thompson, Osmond, you know, Love, Clarkson. They have like a, basically a NBA veteran

starting five that they can put together at any given point. They're trapped in the year, like, 2017, just still waiting for LeBron to show up. Personnel-wise. But style-wise, I think they're actually pretty attractive to watch.

Like, I actually enjoyed, it was on a sub-100 game and it was kind of a rock fight at the end. But they played some pretty nice stuff last night when I was watching them against the Sixers. Charks, have you gotten a chance to watch the Cavs much this year? Not a ton. I mean, I saw him play the Mavs the other night,

and it just seemed like to me, Tristan and Love, like, we forget they were actually starting on a finals team. Yep. Right? You know, like, they weren't like, LaBronble's doing everything. He had to help that in those years. And those guys, when they're playing,

they don't have to play basketball. They fit well together. Love looks frisky again. He's moving pretty well, it seems like. Yeah, he looked pretty good last night. Yeah, there's definitely a, like, do they know it's Christmas at all? vibe to this team

where it's like, oh my God, Brandon Knight, where did he come from? I didn't know he's still on the league. What does it have to do? Do they know it's Christmas? What are you referencing? He's referencing the charity single from the 80s that was like a hunger charity song.

Do they know that competitive basketball is happening at all? Yeah, Brandon Knight. He's actually, the thing is like, on a night-to-day basis, I bet Brandon Knight is probably more solid than like Darius Carlin or Colin Sexton. Right. And I think to Charks's point, there are matchups, especially like a team like the Celtics, who isn't big in the front court and is going to want to play smaller.

We're a team with Kevin Love and Tristan Thompson on the front line, they're going to be able to do some stuff. And that's why you've seen Thompson who's been a little bit more engaged this year. Maybe he's coming up on a contract year. I believe he is, so that would make sense. Yeah. Or also maybe hoping for like a weird, like, can we somehow swing me to LAT in mid- in January. Sure.

And so he definitely, he's playing better, he's getting the double doubles, he's crashing the boards, and you're seeing a little bit more. And love is still good. It also might just be that Beelan's good. I mean, like,

like, trucks, do you see, like, when you watch any Michigan over the years, what are kind of some of the concepts that Beelan brings to the NBA?

Well, Beelan was one of the first coaches to really embraced, like, NBA basketball, like spread pick and roll, four out, five out. So he got a lot of guys' jobs.

Like he got Nick Stous because of money. He got Trey Burke a bunch of money because he spread him out of him playing space when picking roles. He was really on the forefront of that. He was one of those guys where he thought, okay, if he goes to the NBA, he's not going to do much time with Jeff

because he already put NBA basketball in college. You think he could do the same for Colin Sexton because they need him out of there. You've sold all your Colin Sexton stuff? I was never a fan to begin with. Really? They're going to pay him in Cleveland probably. You think so?

The owner loves him, apparently. Great. Dan Gilbert knows all. Yeah. All right, let's talk a little bit. So that's like a good enough segue with this, you know, there's so many big twos in the NBA right now and Kramm wrote a great piece about the duos in the league earlier.

And this week, I believe it was on Monday. So check that out on the ringer. But, you know, we have these established big twos. We've got AD and LeBron. We got Kawhi and Lou Will. We have Sexton and Garland. We had Sexton and Garland already writing their own names into the NBA mythology.

Brogden and Jeremy Lamb. Yeah, Brogden and Leif. I wanted to talk a little bit about some of the up-and-coming duos in the league, though. I wanted to talk about some of the guys that we might be talking about, if God willing, Los Angeles doesn't burn to the ground, we'll be talking about years to come. So some of our favorite younger duos. And Farrier, why don't you get a story with the two guys that you're kind of most interested in in this sort of like, you know, sub-25.

range. Yeah, the one I've been most interested in is one that Charks knows really well is Luca and Christophersingis. Now, as a duo, they haven't performed particularly well. In fact, Christops has looked pretty much like a giant spot-up shooter. He pretty much just like he's excelled in just shooting threes a little bit and just standing on the wing and also standing in front of the basket and getting blocks. Right. So there's a lot to figure out there, but the potential for that duo is just astronomical because they filled out the roster in the right way. with guys who have been able to play with them and also carry the load

when those guys go off the floor and Luca, as we talked about earlier, is phenomenal. Like, he, is he in the MVP discussion already? I mean, why don't we just say, like, if you guys had to pick like a 10-11 game, I know KOC and Bill did this on Bill's pod, but who's your MVP after this, like, 11 game run?

Probably, Yonis. I'm gonna go with Kauai. When he's playing, they're unstoppable. Yeah. AD2 has to be up there. Yeah. I would have to look, but Luca's numbers are incredible. I mean, he thinks he's an assist away in his average from a triple double.

Yeah, I mean, are we going to, but that's okay. It was bad when Russ did that, but it's so cool when Luca does that. Oh, Luca is getting his stats. You can believe that. He's aware of these triple double numbers, I can tell you. Okay. That's true. It's also leading to winning basketball, and I believe they have the best offense in the NBA.

I'm putting cases on everybody when that shit happens. When Luca starts patting, when he starts doing that, every dude who was like Russ is a disgrace is getting called the fuck out I have to say I still hold to my point I made earlier in the season

where it's like Luca and Crunchtime is a roller coaster ride like there was a point where against the Lakers like he used the threat of those deep threes in order to drive past his defender and kick it out I believe to to Finney Smith for an open three and they like it worked

but then there are times where he's still jacking him like what are you doing? Just like just run an offense. Sharks, sing a song of praise for these guys. A different young duo or for Luca and KP? Well, I mean, for for for Luca and KP because you obviously probably get to see them as much as anybody. Okay, I would say this is not meant to be an insult.

Okay. Not at all. I would say Luca has Trump-like confidence in himself. It's really remarkable. How are we not leading the entire website with this take? Like that guy thinks he is always right all the time He's never at all worried about anything He can go one for 10

Doesn't bother him at all Like he just can't be faced And like that's popped the battle right there If you're being that confident Like Luca is just always believing himself No matter what happens I'm the best I've been the best The whole life

I always win it's the big deal Everybody is saying that I'm the best Many people are saying That I might average a triple double this season I mean he really does say that He's like well in Europe I was awesome So I thought it'd be awesome here I like this.

I like this. Charks because, like, Luca also has interesting relationships with Eastern Europe, you know? You know? Yeah, I mean, if you have, like, a Bengal tiger tattooed on your arm and you're driving, like, a neon Ferrari, you don't lack for confidence. Sure. Yeah. Look, I'm happy about it. I like Luca.

I just am, like, I just have noticed that Luca's gaudy numbers have been like, oh, it's, we ever seen anything? Yeah, we saw it three years ago, and you guys thought it was the end of the NBA for. for us to do that. Charks, give me another duo outside of Dallas guys. I'm going to go in Toronto. Seacum and O.G.

Anobie. I mean, those guys are killing it. They're not missing without Kuwait. Pascal Seacum. Chris, is he a top 10 player

in the league right now? Pascal Seaccom? It's hard to say no. I mean, like, I think that with top tens and when we talk about, like,

where do these guys ranks, there's a couple of things that come to play. One is, how often are we taking into account defense and whether or not it's like a two-way award that we're giving because I think it changes the,

it changes the calculus there a little bit. And then also, like, in this beginning part of the season, you can really get pretty blinded by that. You can be pretty, like, is Trey Young a top 10 player? I mean, he's obviously like a net zero on defense, but like when you watch him and you watch him beat Denver in Denver, it's hard not to think of him that way, even if he's on a four and six team.

But Seacom right now, I think it'll be interesting to watch him without, Lowry and Abaca over the coming games because I think that just seeing him against the Clippers, the Clippers are obviously very good. The efficiency has definitely disappeared from his game, I thought.

Haley touched on that and on her piece about Siakum earlier in the week. What do you think, Charks? I'm leaning towards it. Just at his size, I mean, he's getting 26 a night. He's having the offense run through him. He's guarding all five positions.

And the Raptors are really just rolling without, they're playing like seven or eight guys and they're killing it. I mean, to me, Siakum, it might be the best player in that draft going back to 2016. If you look at it's him, Ingram, Jalen, and Ben Simmons. Wow. Isn't he the best of the four right now?

Fuck. I mean, Ben just isn't utilized properly. We've been over this 30 times, so I won't relitigate it. There's been a really interesting debate happening in like the Sixers, Sixers fan circles, and Spike and Mike talked about it

on Wright, Sturkey Sanchez earlier, like, over the weekend, where it's like this idea that, like, what you want to see from these young guys is, like, adding a thing to their game every summer and then coming and saying, like, look what I can do now. That's Pascal. That's Pascal. And it's not Ben right now.

And Ben might be able to do it in a practice gym, but Seacom is doing it night to night. So I'm not ready to crown him or, like, say that Seacom is... So who are the four you're talking about, Charks again? So from that draft, top four, it's him and the top three picks. There was Simmons, Ingram, Jalen Brown, and Siakum. And Jamal Murray's in that draft, too, right?

Oh, yeah, Jamal Murray, Buddy Heald. Dude, Jamal-Bendor. You know. Dragon Bender. Yeah, I mean, I think the thing that's so striking about Seacom is he really didn't miss a beat when he was handed the reins to be the number one guy. So if you were starting a team to, I hate this idea because no one ever is starting a team tomorrow, but if you had your choice of those guys, who would you take?

I would still pick Ben because of the pedigree, and I think in the proper situation, he could still be a tough of that. He has a lot younger, to be fair. Pascal came in at like 23, so he's already at 25, 26 now, I think. Yeah, there's that too. I would still take Ben. But I feel like I know, I know that that is not as strong of an argument as it was once was. Yeah. And I guess to bring it back also, the other guy is An Anobie.

So he's playing really well. He was hurt all last year, basically. He kind of fell out of the rotation. He's come back. He's shooting 50% on three. and him and Pascal, they have these two freaking tanks. They're both like 6-8, 6-9. They're huge.

They're crazy fast. They move really well. They're smart players. To me, Toronto, they're just looking great. Yeah. I kind of wonder whether or not, like, would Toronto make a trade to get, to go all in here? I mean, like, everybody has been like, Messiah. Messiah is always going to blow it up.

Messiah's going to tear it down to the studs, and it's just going to be Pascal and OG and then they're going to get rid of all these guys. But I kind of wonder whether the season keeps going on like this. I know Abac is out for how long? Like a while, right? A month? I don't remember. But it's, I don't know. Do you think that he would go out there and look for something

that would give them a shot at getting back to the finals? Because this is a wide open east. I don't think this is open and shut as we thought it might be where it was just going to be a buck sixers two-way race. Celtics are coming on. We can talk about Brown and Tatum. if we want, but like the Celtics obviously have like a little bit of magic to them this season.

I don't know. I mean, like, is it crazy to think of the Raptors as like an Eastern Conference contender? Yeah, the East is a lot softer than I think we expected. You know, the Sixers obviously had injuries and the Celtics now with the Hayward injury. It does feel like at least in the regular season, the number one spot is there for the taking.

You never know. I mean, Middleton is out too. So it just seems like even though the Raptors have experienced injuries, they do have this infrastructure, and that's been able to sustain them. They won just the other night in L.A. And it was just like, wow, they don't really need everything in order to rack up wins.

I think I would be surprised if Hu Jiri did, Miss I, Jerry did the same thing he did with Kauai, because the whole idea was they went all in for the title, whereas I think the title ceiling for this team is significantly lower. Yeah, I mean, they traded for the best player in the world. That's not available right now. So let's talk a little bit about Brown and Tatum.

I feel like actually we, I don't even know if we've spoken about the Celtics while I've been on the podcast this season. We cut them last week. We were going to. Okay. Why don't you, you guys, I actually haven't gotten to see too much Boston this season. So why don't you guys tell me a little bit about how they're doing this?

Justin, I got a take for you. Let's hear it. Do they even miss Gordon Hayward? Wow. Charks. Is he Trump like to? Yeah. more than Luca probably.

Explain yourself, I'm just looking at their roster, and I feel like when Gordon's healthy, they've got four guys who want the ball, and that's just one guy too many. Yeah. Right? You've got Gordon, Kemba, Brown, Tatum,

and Brown was hurt earlier that she and Hayward is really going. And I feel like there's just too many mouths to feed. When you go to three, then everybody else around them, you have a big three who get the ball, split time on the ball. everybody else plays a role. Whereas I think with four guys,

it just comes very difficult. And I think the way Tatum and Brown are playing, I think them taking a backseat is over. Like, it's their team now. And Hayward's got to get in line. Yeah, I totally agree with you that they have a glut of wing, and it tends to show

when they are all available and all on the floor together. I don't know if that's necessarily a Hayward issue, though. Like, you saw Hayward... It's like a personnel issue, rather? Yeah, it's just more of like they're victims of circumstances.

I actually think Hayward more than Brown and Tatum has done a good job of being the one facilitating to all of those other guys. He's on the ball more. His usage rate is bigger than since he left Utah. He also is bigger, and you've also seen the advantage he brings on the boards for the Celtics. The Celtics front court is relegated to Time Lord in spot minutes from Daniel. Thice. Time Lords to plan well, bro. He's playing well at times, at times.

And so Hayward really kind of stabilizes them in the front court. Now, Jalen Brown, a better defender. Tatum is kind of just like still done his thing. But I don't know. I was encouraged by the way Hayward was playing, in part because of the way he was playing in order to set up other guys. What's Brad's rotation has been like the season charks? Because like I, for as much as there's an embarrassment of riches in that starting five,

it seems like he could do a lot to sprinkle those guys throughout different, units so that they were always at an advantage over the other team. Now, I've got a crazy stat for you. Do you know who the youngest roster in the league is this season? I bet it's Boston. There you go, right? They're playing a bunch of young guys. They're giving Grant Williams, their pit rookie from Tennessee minutes.

They're playing Time Lord, obviously. Carson Edwards is getting in there. They're playing this guy, Giovante Green from, like, Europe or something. Have we had any Romeo Langford sightings yet this season? He's been in the G-Leod. league mostly. Okay. He's,

they're kind of, he's been hurt or something. I don't know. He's not playing much. But, like, they're playing a bunch of young guys. That's really impressive. Like, they're going full youth movement here.

Yeah. And the one thing with them is they obviously still have that grizzly's pick just like waiting to be used. And so if they did one. Yeah, that pick is not being talked about. That's a massive pick. So it's, it's protected this season.

I want to say one. Six. Top six. It's one through six. And then it's unprotected next season. So regardless of where it falls, it's a pretty attractive trade asset. And so if they do want to ask,

more to the front court. If they do want to get in the mix for the Kevin Loves, the Blake Griffins, any of those guys that might become available, I mean, I think they would have the best shot of anybody. Let's talk about the last young duo

that we're going to hit here. And because it feels like they've been in the league for a while, that they've essentially been handcuffed to one another for their entire careers, we don't often think of them as like a hot young duo. We think of them as like a possibly failed science experiment.

But let's talk a little bit about the under 25 duo, Andrew Wiggins, Carl Anthony Towns because they've, you know... Yeah. I think that there's a thing... The revival of Wiggins. Do you tell...

Okay. So, like, yesterday I went into Verrier's office. And I was like, this is probably the best month of Wiggins' career, I think, this November so far. And I was like, what the fuck is happening? Like, is it just that he's having, like,

good clutch performances? So people are, like, replaying certain sequences and seeing highlights and thinking Wiggins is back or Wiggins has arrived finally? is Saunders doing something particularly different are his numbers appreciably different and we kind of were struggling for answers

Justin right at least in our conversation if you sort of discovered anything else in future and like later thinking about it well being benched definitely helps that during one like notable game earlier in the season Ryan Sanders benched Ryan Saunders benched him for a quarter and it really spurred Andrew Wiggins in the fourth quarter

he helped win them that game the biggest difference that I've seen is Wiggins, who he has this incredible ability to not even fall into an assist. You would think considering how much he handles the ball and takes shots, he would just have four assists one night. Accidentally passed to an open man once in a while, yeah. Exactly.

I mean, his first two games of the season, he had two assists, and that was all in one game. He went zero, two, and zero. Now he's starting to spread the ball around. He's playing a little bit more off of towns better. His past four games, six assists, seven assists, seven assists, five assists, five assists.

Yeah, Aaron Gleman had a good stat the other day. I don't know if this has changed since November 11th, I don't think so. But he said in Andrew Wiggins' games, five plus rebounds and five plus assists. Before this season, he had 17 of those games and 400 games. So that was 4%. So far this season, three out of 10, where he's had five assists and five boards. Which seems like I guess they're counting stats, but that means engagement in a game in a different way than what he's been doing before.

It's quite simply that. I think, too, for him, more than any player, so before this season, they were kind of always playing cat in the post with, like, Taj Gibson. And there was never much room to get to the rim. And, like, if there is one player in the league that you don't want to encourage

shooting mid-range twos, Andrew Wiggins, and, like, there was nowhere to go for him, so he was always just taking up bad twos. Now they're playing Cat at the 5, Covington at the 4. The lane's, like, wide open. And so I think for Wiggins, The difficult level of the game just goes way, way down with that kind of wide open space.

It's easier to make passes. It's easier to drive. I like them the numbers. And when Wiggins is playing without Kat, he hasn't been that good. Really, it's when Wiggins is playing with Kat that he looks like this new kind of revived player. And now with Cat at the 5, Cat of 3 point line, he has room to operate. Wiggins is back. Wiggins is back.

Do you think the wolves are going to make the playoffs? I said that early on, and I'm going to stick to the take because I have conviction in my Always. But you've completely flipped on your Lakers take. I don't remember that at all. What are you talking about? There you go. Next take mentality.

I love it. Let's wrap this podcast right now. Let's wrap this podcast up for Jonathan Charks and Justin Barry. I'm Chris Ryan. We'll be back next week with group chat. Thanks for listening. He'd check on Mondays, mismatch Tuesday, Thursdays, and us on Wednesday. So make sure you're checking out all the ringer NBA shows and check out everything we've

got going up on the site from a gaggle of writers that we love and adore and support. We'll talk to you next time. Basketball is very good. Basketball is very good.