The Ringer NBA Show - Are Retired NBA Players Unnecessarily Critical of Current NBA Players? | Real Ones

Episode Date: January 25, 2021

Logan and Raja go deep on how retired players criticize current NBA players after Shaq’s awkward postgame interaction with Donovan Mitchell last week (6:45). Then they discuss how NBA arenas are opening up to fans in the midst of the pandemic (32:30) and share some of their favorite memories of Kobe Bryant, a year removed from his death (53:00).  Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's good, real ones? This is Logan, Murdoch and Roger. How are you doing, Roger? I'm good, bro. I had a little beef with something I saw on TNT the other day, but I'm going to tell you why I got a little beefy with that. You're going to tell me why you mad, son? Yeah, I'm going to tell you why I'm mad.

I think you will too, right? I think you got something to get off your chest. Yeah. Yeah, we talked about, you know, OG players talking to the young generation. We talked about COVID and the NBA. Is the NBA doing right? Is it doing? We're going to tell you why we're mad, son.

Tell me why you mad on the real ones. Holla. Next. Ah. It's good, man. Real ones here. Logan Murdoch. Roger Bell.

How you doing, bro? You doing all right, man? I'm doing okay, dog. I got the magic juice shot in my back today. Oh. Just dealt with my paver guy who's here to give me an estimate on the repairs from my pavers. I mean, just, you know, father or four adult type shit going on, dog. Listen, we were talking before the podcast started and you were giving me and Sasha a little lesson on homeownership and what it's like.

and horror stories. And then also, just the all-encompassing thing of being like a real, real adult. You know what I mean? And, you know, how's that going for you there, Roger? Listen, it's fantastic. I would say this, though, as it pertains and ties into the show. When I played in the NBA and I wasn't around for all of the things that could go wrong in a home and stuff like that, it was a lot easier, man.

like I was on the road when it was time to deal with the pay for people and the cable people I was on the road when the plumbing went bad it wasn't my like it wasn't my domain I didn't care of any of that now you over here hold on one second one second one second hold on hold on and then walking up like I gotta get something I gotta get I gotta get it done damn right like hey I would like I told you given all that I know now I would have stayed in a condo it is a lot easier I get it man I respect it bro I mean we were talking about the HOA too man like it's it's it doesn't seem you know what I mean like I don't know are you are you good man are you good do here's my how the hell I'm gonna pay an HOA right which I currently do right and I

paid one in the condo except like the condo was cool because like cable came through the condo and like my electricity was already paid like you know what I'm saying like I'm paying the HOA but all of this stuff is taking care of I pay an HOA in this development um basically for them to like send me letters saying hey you need to clean your roof or hey your mailbox isn't up to code. Like, you need to change that. Like, why am I paying you? What are you doing? You're paying them money for them to make you pay more money. Correct. Is that what it is? And to be messing with me. Like, that's, I'm paying them to mess with me. Tees, man. I just keep getting these horror stories, these HOA horror stories. And HOAs are supposed to be like good. They're supposed to help you and

stuff like that. You know what I mean? In theory, right? And then all I do is hear horror stories about HOAs. H-O-As are the devil, bro. The devil. They are not real one of the week, huh? They are anti-real ones, yes. That is facts. Did you watch any football this weekend? Did you watch the AFC-N-C championships? Oh, who are you talking to, bro? I'm just making sure.

I'm just trying to get a little fodder before we get to the shit. What are you talking to? Yeah, I watched that. What did you think? What was your biggest takeaway from the weekend? Okay, first of all, were you a Tom Brady fan when he was in New England?

Hell no. But this is the dynamic I find playing out, and I'm interested. Talk rule forever, baby. We're not, you know what I'm saying? You know what I mean? Like, no, I was not a freaking Tom Brady fan, bro. I was against the Raiders.

Yes, yes, it was. It was against the Raiders. I find myself pulling for Tom Brady. Now, I hated him when he was a patriot. And, like, lightweight, I was cheering against my boys last night, who all my young sons were pulling for, like, Aaron Rogers. And I was, like, the lone person in the house. Is it because you're old and low-key washed right now?

And you just want the old man to get it in. Tom's older than you, I think, right? First of all, that was absolutely unnecessary. I was out of pocket. That was completely unnecessary. But it could have something to do with that. I just, he's one year younger than me. But I always thought him and the Patriots kind of went hand in hand in my hatred.

And they don't. Like, they're independent of each other. I mess with Tom Brady. I just didn't like the Patriots. I think, you know, I don't know if it's triggering, but the Patriots are like the spurs of the NFL, and we know your feelings about the spurs. of those early years.

Do you think that I had anything to do with it, maybe? You're going a little deeper than I would with that, but I mean, there could be something to it. Organization elite, right? You could have something. Philosophical low is here. Philosophical low is here. Now, to your question about who I was rooting for,

I was not rooting for Tom Brady. I was rooting for Aaron Rogers. And Aaron Rogers outplayed Tom, okay? There's no way that you can like, the way you slice it, man. Aaron Rogers outplayed him. but the coach of the Green Bay Packers, with the game on the line,

just over two minutes left, you have Aaron Rogers on the field. Your option is to, I'm going to kick a field goal and take it out of Rogers' hands or I'm going to give it to Tom Brady with the game on the line. What are you going to do,

Roger Bell? What would you do in that situation? That one caught me off guard, dog. I mean, you're going, listen, best player in the league this year, MVP probably. I mean, Patrick Mahomes is Patrick Mahomes. But dog, if he can't get that done,

then I got to say, deserve to win that game but i'm not taking the ball out of his hands like you're going to get a shot at that all i'm going to say before we get to the shits is number 12 looks great and silver and black i'm not sure if you know that um if number 12 goes to california he better take his behind down there to san francisco dog he better not be messing with them damn vague or they're not even oak they're not even oak okay take your ass take your ass to california boy don't be messing around in nevada i mean he'll be all right listen he had the black black and white bandana on after the game who was throwing signs, okay?

Like, you know, it's just tradition for a number 12 to be successful in the silver and black, okay? You talk about Kenny Staley, you talk about Rich Gannon, they just need to pass a torch on the Aaron Rogers right fast. So, you know, just... I don't know, I'm just saying, I'm just saying 12

looks great, the silver and black. Speak it into existence, Holmes. All right, man. Let's get to the shits. Shits. Okay, so I'm almost, like, pissed that this happened like two days after our last podcast. So I'm perusing the television and I'm watching T&T.

And, you know, it was after the jazz game. The jazz are playing well. The jazz man are playing well, if you will. And so they win a game. And Donovan Mitchell gets interviewed by the inside crew, right? And you know, Shaquille O'Neal is a part of the inside crew. And so I'm going to do my Shaq impression real quick. If it's bad, we can just re-record it.

Who cares? So you go, Sparta. Sparta, this is Shaq. I said tonight that you're one of my favorite players, but you do not have what it takes to get to the next level. I said that on purpose, I wanted you to hear it. What did you have to say about that? And, you know, Donald Mitchell caught off guard.

Like, yo, I just had a great game. He's like, he has the face like, what the fuck on his face? And he says some things like, yo, I'm going to show. you and I've been showing you, da-da-da-da-da, and Shaq's like basically just telling him, yeah, man, you're not what I think. You're not, you're not, you don't have what it takes, right? And Shaq has been a big criticizer of the, of the, um, the new generation and particularly the jazz, right? Um, he talked about Rudy Gobert, just talk, just pocket watching with Rudy Gobert talking about, um, you know, how he doesn't deserve the big bag he got,

alluding to that. And he's talked about other players before. And I know that he is in a position to talk about players, but it was just the vitriol in what she did it, right? And so, you know, this has also been a criticism that we just talked about with James Hardin last week, right? With Shaquille O'Neal. And so we see that. And then Kevin Durant and LeBron James wait on this, right?

They both commented on an Instagram post. Kevin Durant writes, them old heads need to go and enjoy retirement. These boys have coaches they work with every day. And LeBron says there's a difference between constructive criticism and soft hating, though. I've seen it both ways come my way, mostly the hate. You can hear it in their delivery. Now, Rajah, I know you're a former player.

You talk about new player. you talk about the current generation a lot what is the right way about going about this right because I saw Shaq sounded like he was just hating and it was just like it just didn't feel it didn't feel right this type of criticism towards Donovan right like what do you mean it doesn't know what it takes

to get to Lex level bro he was one of the stars at a bubble last year he's the the the jazz are second in the west I don't know what does he have to do I don't I just think Shaq was hating is my mom wrong in thinking that I don't know. I can't really speak to where Shaq's mind was at with that. It's interesting, right? Because first of all, we're all part of a fraternity, right? So even if we don't play anymore, we are part of a fraternity. Very few people ever get an opportunity to do that. So there is a brotherhood and a respect that you should have for the people playing the game now and that they should have for you. But when you take a job in the media, your job then by definition becomes, you know, to have an opinion and in the analyst role, like to break things down. And so if your opinion is that someone is not a star that can be

the number one and win a championship on a team. Now, mind you, this is not my opinion. This is what I think Shaq was trying to say with the Donovan thing. And I caught him at halftime when they were chopping it up. So I saw him say it live. That was your opinion. Like, you're weren't saying that to elicit some sort of like response in terms of taking your game to the next level from Donovan Mitchell. That's not what you were doing. He said that. That was his opinion on it. And if that's your opinion, you're entitled to it. My beef was like when he, you look like when they brought spite on after the game, you weren't ready for that or anticipating that taking place when you said what you said. You look like you got caught with your hand in a cookie jar and you tried to

like figure out a way to kind of, you know, kind of qualify what you said and soften the blow to Donovan Mitchell. Like that's just stand behind what you said, if that's the way you feel about it. And that's your, you're entitled to your opinion. You have a platform,

you can say that. And I don't think that any player should, think someone's hating. Like, if Shaq don't feel like any player in the league is good enough to carry a team and they haven't done it yet, like he's entitled to that opinion. Like, it doesn't have to be hate.

It could just be the way he feels. If you're Donovan Mitchell, would you walk off or would you just like just take that? Like how he did? No, like I, first of all, I don't necessarily agree with Shaq. I want to make that clear. You know, that's one of those things. Like, you know, if I'm Donovan Mitchell, I don't really know how I play that. Because when you get grabbed right after a game, you don't know that Shaq had said that, right?

So he was kind of cold cocked by the question. Like, damn, dog. Like, you said that shit. And then you had the nerve to, like, say it. to me say it to me. And so I think he did a good job handling it. I just wish Shaq hadn't kind of like muddied it up like he did. Look, you made the statement.

I've made the statement before about people. Like, I think they're great players. They might not be a superstar. Superstardom is reserved for, I don't know, there are like eight guys in the NBA that I would call superstars. If you don't fall into that category and you fall into the tier below that, there's no shame in that. You know what I'm saying?

And so I wish Shaq would have just kept it a buck with it. Instead, he tried to duck and dodge and, you know, whatever he was trying to do with telling the man that he did it for his own good. Like, that's bullshit. I just feel like whenever I watch the league or the NBA or the NBA coverage from former players or even former coaches, it always seems like they are just shitting on this current generation, whether it's the bread they got it to earlier, whether it's just They don't do it the way that it used to be done.

And when I go look at the NFL or I go look at like, I don't know, any other sport from former players and stuff, at least there's like an error of propaganda. You know what I mean? There's like, there's something like, oh, my God, this is great. You listen to Chris Collinsworth, sell the game every Sunday. It's like, what a great throw by a great player. And oh, my, did you just see that? Like, it's just, I just feel like there's not enough, like, player propaganda.

I don't know how I'm trying to. But let me ask you. I don't know, like selling the game. Like, you know, I just feel like former players and, like, legends, it just seems like they're always hitting on the current generation. And I guess there should be some balance. But I just feel like, at least from a player standpoint, shouldn't there be, like, some form of, like, we're celebrating these guys?

I mean, I'm a media member. So it's different for me. Like, that's, I, but I just feel like, I, from something that I've seen with the NFL and the NBA. It's just a subtle difference. Well, yeah, it's an interesting opinion. You're drawing a parallel like Chris Collinsworth. A couple things come to mind.

Like the in-game for NBA, like the in-game color commentators, I think they do a pretty good job of celebrating the guys. Like, they're not typically the one with the hot takes in terms of like who's a star and why he can't win it. Like they're not, I think some of those guys actually do a good job kind of like Chris Collinsworth of of celebrating them, if you will. The other thing is Chris Collinsworth, I mean, he might have had a great career, forgive me for not like being super familiar with it. But he's not Shaq or like Charles Barkley. Those are all-time greats sitting on a set.

And it's it's got to be very difficult for them like because they were all-time greats. Very few people measured up to them like in the history of the NBA. So the advantage in, And the vantage point that they're looking at it from, like the prism that they're viewing it through, is of an all-time great. Like, it's not of, like, mine where I can look at Donovan Mitchell and be like, I'd never be that. Like, I could never do that.

They're looking at it like, I was way better than that. Yeah. And I mean, that's what makes them great. Yeah. So do you feel like that competitive, it's more so that competitiveness that there is there? And then they kind of want to, you know, they don't want to necessarily get off of that throne, right?

The thing that makes them great on the court also makes them seem bitter on television. Is that kind of what you're saying? Yeah, I think that's fair. And I think in some cases, it could be misconstrued as bitter to the point that you just made. But in other cases, I think it is bitterness, right? And I'm not saying Shaq was in this instance. But when I played, I'm sure there were a ton of former players in some media outlet talking about the money. that I made from the sons and saying like, how the hell does this cat make that much money?

Do you know what I mean? Just because that's the nature of the beast. The brand continues to grow. It continues to globalize and the money is exploding. So I think it's human nature for dudes to sit around and look at the money that some of these players are making now and be like, yo, like, and feel some kind of way about it. So there are times where it could come off like that and it wasn't meant like that. And there are other times where I do believe it to be just, you know, a slight bit of jealousy. about the financial windfall.

It is the NBA contract these days. How did it make you feel as a young dude? And you're like, dude, when someone's criticizing you for whatever reason and you may not feel like it's justified, maybe it's the bread and these guys got it too good right now. And, you know, it's the evolution of every generation that usually happens, right? How did that make you feel? Are you like, man, what the fuck, dude? Like, I show you love and I show you all this thank you. You're the reason why I do have this.

I appreciate it. And you still get shitted on. How does that make you feel from a younger player's perspective? It doesn't make you feel good. And I can draw one comparison. I had injured myself in the 2006, I believe, was playoffs against the Lakers, the one, I mean, not the Lakers against the Mavericks. It was the year Sean Marion has said he thought we could win a championship.

And I had to sit games two and three, and we lost those, I think. And I came back for game four. And I had magic, I had heard him pregame say something and I revered him about me costing my team by coming back because I wasn't clearly not going to be ready to play on a torn calf. And that made me feel kind of shitty, you know. And so I remember, like I went out and I was not ready to like play. I couldn't barely move my leg. But I was playing on straight adrenaline. And there was just a little bit of a spark that I gave to the team.

I probably had like nine points, drew some charge. And we won the game. And I got interviewed post game. And I referenced it. Like, yeah, I heard what you guys said. Like, you know, I would never come out here to cost me. And so I've shot back at them respectfully. Like, you know, like, don't judge me, dog. Like, I'm in these shoes now. I'm, I'm the one that's got to like answer to whether or not I'm hurting my team. Like, you have a responsibility to give your opinion. But that doesn't mean that, like, I can't respond to that and give my side of the story and the way I feel about it. So I'm not saying what I did was. right. Again, I thought Donovan handled himself really well, but I, if I'm being honest, I would have liked to have seen him stand up a little bit more to Shaq and, and challenge it a bit, you know? I just, I wish he would have just been like, F you were just like, I don't care what you think and walked off. That would have just been wild. That would have been lit. You know what I mean? That would, I, that would have just been like. For podcast purposes or just you're saying, like, you think that's what he should have done, been like, you, F you, I'm out. I just,

I just wish you, because I don't know, like I just considered the source, right? Like, Shaq is saying this, but I remember when I was growing up and Bill Walton was getting on his head and he was the same way, you know what I mean? And I was on Shaq's side like, yeah, man, what are you talking about, Bill Walton?

Like Shaq is, it's a big shackers, go! You know what I mean? And that's why it's wild to see, you know, Shaq in this position of like, Being this kind of guy, being this guy who is, you know, he's never won a championship. Yo, Chuck. Why? Because people were saying that about him, and he was getting really offended.

You know, he was one of those guys that was getting that. So that's why it's like, Shaq, you should understand, right? Right. And that would be some of my, would be a gripe of mine if like an OG did it. And I'm like, oh, especially in a public setting, like, yo, man, you could, you could holl at me on the side. Like, maybe it's not as good television. but like you said, it's still a fraternity.

You know what I mean? But that show doesn't work if those guys aren't up there saying, wow, shit. Like, it doesn't. It's not the same type of, like, you know, viewing experience. If those dudes aren't as candid as they are. And, yeah, there's going to be some stuff that comes off. Like, it's probably mad offensive and borderline, like the SEC is at or whatever it is, has to get involved because then boys are borderline.

Right, but that's what makes that show. Let me just play devil's advocate again, Logan. Mm-hmm. And I want to do this just for pod's sake, right? Like, has Donovan Mitchell risen to superstar status in your mind? Like, is he a superstar or is he just a really, really good player? He's a star. He's a star.

He's on the ascent, though, for sure. But I think after the bubble performance, definitely a star. I mean, a star is fine. A star is fine, okay? And that you can be a star, but that's, not really what they were talking about. They were talking about being the dude who is the superstar that brings like fortune to the organization, which means championships, bro. But that's what it means. I mean, he kind of, he's no, he has not. No, he has not. He hasn't brought championships, but he

has brought in the Utah Jazz, like, back after Gordon Haywood left. Like, we, we thought it was over. You know what I mean? He has done a good job. So, Boom. Would you consider Dame Little is a superstar? Yeah. I think Dame Lowell is a superstar. Okay, then has he won a title? I also think he's better than Donovan Mitchell. I'm not saying that Donovan Mitchell's like, Donald Mitchell's like 20-something though.

You know what I mean? And I'm just saying like he's in his early 20s, 24, 25, something like that. So, okay, yes. And that's a good point. I'm just saying I think, I think what Shaq was saying, and here's where I think Shaq went wrong, was that you can't say that he can't take that next step.

I think it's fair to say that he's not that that guy yet, because it hasn't really happened. Like Chuck doubled down on like, you know, the scoring aspect, like hellified score, but what else are you doing like on the thing? And I'm not digging, I didn't look at the numbers. So I'm not, I'm just saying that was the case they were making. So if you can make, if you make that case,

because that's the way you genuinely feel, as someone in the media, I have to respect that. Like, I don't have to agree with it, but I have to respect it. I think they went wrong in saying that he can't take that next step. Because to your point, he's 25 years old. Like, he hasn't won a championship yet. But if he is true on the- But I don't think that necessarily makes you a make or break you as a superstar.

Like, I'm not comparing anybody, but, like, Katie was, didn't win a title, was a bona fide star. I'm just saying that not to the point to say, like, they're the same player, but the fact, I'm just making the point that it can happen without winning the title. That is fair. That is fair. That is fair and I'm still going to say, and I don't believe him to be a superstar. I believe him to be a star right now. And he could ascend. He could ascend to be a superstar. That's where, in my opinion, like you made the mistake if you're Shaq and Chuck. Like, I think that you could be a superstar potentially. I don't know that you cannot be. Right now, I don't have him in my superstar category.

Do you say do you how should former player you know because you've you've gotten both side of it how should former players critique this this brand of this new generation of basketball players because or star or old legends critique this because it's hard right because they're competitive for a reason and that's why they've gotten to the point that they are but how should they criticize players and have that constructive criticism? Yeah I think honesty like is is always important. important, right? So I don't think everything you say has to be a glowing, you know, um, critique of, of a current player if you don't genuinely feel like that. And I think that's okay. I've said that. I, you know, I, you know, I don't think that the new generation of player should feel offended and all in their feelings about someone saying what they feel about that. I also think older players, oh, um, this new generation, a player, a fair, a fair, um, Eval, right? So you shouldn't have your feelings involved about what you were paid versus what they were paid. You have to weigh in the fact that the game is played differently, right? Like, it's not played interior based anymore. It's a perimeter game. And I don't think a lot of former players do that. I think they judge, and I've been guilty of it, of judging like a big, for instance, by how many times he goes down there and touches the ball in the paint. That ain't fair to him. That's not the way he was taught how to play the game. You know, so we have to do a better job, you know, on that end. But I think.

to your question, like the simple answer is just be fair and honest about like your criticism constructively or otherwise about what you see or you're glowing and ringing endorsement of a player if that's the way you feel about it. But take, take emotions and like jealousy and stuff out of the equation when you do that. Be fair when you do it. My high school coach Alonzo Carter used to tell us all the time, get your feelings out to shit. Great life advice. Just amazing life advice. Told that to some seventh graders yesterday in so many words. And okay, okay. And before I get out of there, like, what do you think as a young player, like how much do you guys look for that approval from the OGs when you guys are of that age, right? Where you're like, oh, man, like you said,

magic, I'm sure, magic in the 80s was that dude. That shit hurt my feelings, bro. When he said that about me, like, and he doesn't know me and I don't really know him, but the shit hurt my feelings, because I was such a big fan. So I get it. Like when when dudes are like, damn, do you guys watch that? Do you guys look at these, these tele? Just like, yo, what is bro saying about me? Like, how did you?

Or you just caught it on a whim when you saw it. Nah, like we're on the slate of playoff games, right? Like, so every night there's a slate of games on TNT or whatever, whatever. And so as you're kind of meandering about behind the scenes, like going out for your shoot around and stuff, the games prior to you were up, you know, people are watching. So if you happen to be in your locker or in the training room, while somebody pops up on set at halftime or in between games, you're going to see what they're talking about, right?

Because the games are up. And that's typically, you know, you're not scrolling through your mentions at halftime or anything, but the games are playing all around. I mean, players do that now. Well, yeah, I mean, I would advise against that. We didn't. We would just catch it, like, as it was on the TV.

And so did you ever get, what did magic say, or did you get to talk to Magic afterwards? Like, what was the resolution in this? There was no resolution, man. I told him I heard it and I said like, you know, I respectfully like disagree. I was like I wouldn't put my team in a situation where I felt I was going to hurt him. Like we were undermanned and I felt like I had something to contribute.

And if I didn't feel that way, I wouldn't have been out here. So that's what it was. You said it in a real, you said that in a real like PC way. You knew you were on T&T. Now, what was going through your mind, Roger Bell? It was pretty much that, Logan, because first of all. You still got respect for Roger. I mean, you still got respect for Magic.

Damn right. I was raised to respect my elders, man. So, like, you know, I'm, even in that space today, bro, as a grown man, like, I, you know, if you're older than me, there's a reverence that I paid it at. Like, you've earned that, bro. You've seen and done way more than I have. So, again, I was more hurt than anything. Like, and I wanted to let them know, like, they had come off like I was going to hurt the team. And I wanted to let them know that.

I was anything but that. Like, if I felt like I would hurt us, I would have not played. And so that's all I wanted to kind of. express. Like, I would never put our team in jeopardy if, if, like, like, uh, intentionally. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. I mean, it's a, it's a thing that keeps going on, you know, all the time, you know, bag and forth between legends and current players. I think it's, I don't think it's going to change anytime soon. Like, whenever you, usually when you see a legend do something, it's criticizing a new generation. But like, it's a tough balance because, you know, like you said,

Shaq has a job to do, man. He does. He has a job to do. And if that's, what he sees, then damn it, that's what he sees, right? Yeah, man. Like, you know, let, give me 10 years. Now, LeBron's never probably going to sit up and commentate and do TV or anything like that. But with a, you know, when that becomes your job, you're going to be singing a different tool, LeBron.

Like, when that becomes your job and you're looking at a young player and they ask you some stuff about it, you know, if you never, ever say anything and you're always straddling the fence, what happens to that media member, Logan? That never has anything to say. What happens? Yeah, you got to go, bro. So you learn and you're taught to have an opinion one way or the other have an opinion. And if you don't feel comfortable doing that, then you shouldn't be sitting in front of a microphone.

Yeah, I mean, it's, I get it. I get it. I don't know the balance. I can't imagine the balance that you have to strike in doing this as a former player because you know a lot more. Because I can criticize, but I don't know as much as you about the game. And so I can imagine that it's like you have a lot more new. nuance that I could, I try to have a lot of nuance when covering these guys, but it's just not as good as yours. It's just not. I wasn't, no matter how much I've been around it, I haven't been in those shoes. So I'm sure it's a little, sure it's tough, a tough balance you got to strike.

I mean, it was really hard for me early when I first started because I was a straddle defense guy. And I, the reason I, I know that you can't be is because I've had producers and bosses say to me, man, you got to have an opinion, man. Like, you can't, you can't, you know, like, dance around that, dog. Like, give us, give us something. And so it conditions you to do that. You know, again, my, you can have the opinion that Shaq and Barclay had, whether I agree with it or not.

You can have that opinion. I do think, though, that Shaq was wrong for saying that he can't make it to that next level as a superstar because I think that's too TBD, right? Like, it's to be determined. And he is, and you are correct on the ascension as a player. He's a young player. He's still learning. Like, Chuck and Chuck, they weren't legends when they first came out.

They built, they developed into legends, right? Even MJ developed into a legend. So, you know, he didn't start off winning championships. So Donovan's doing what he does, bro. He's learning, you know, their failures that help you learn and get over humps. And so he's doing that right now. We're watching him. That's TBD.

Where I think they went wrong was with that. And then also Shaq going on there and kind of dodge. Like, that's what I don't like. Like, when you hopped up and now Donovan's in your face, and I just watched you like an hour ago say with emphasis that this cat couldn't do that. And now you try to roll it up and like I was doing that for you. I didn't love that. Yeah. That's that's real.

All right, man, before we go to the next brag, I just want to tell you guys, man, I'm about to tell y'all while I'm mad over the next. I'm about to tell him I'm mad. The matter who. Hooper is back. Tell me why you're mad, son. Why you bet? I tell me why you're mad. All right. We'll be right back. The next time you're watching basketball, I've got the perfect way for you to get it on the action for free. I'm talking about NBA InPlay. It's absolutely free to play on the FanDuel app and features all the fun of live betting. NBA Inplay turns every quarter of every game into a free contest where you can win real cash prizes.

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So, Raja, I'm going to tell him why I'm mad, bro. Just let it tell him why I'm going to. Yeah, go ahead, bro. Mark, can I just? It's yours. It's yours. It's yours that I'll do it. Can I speak my shit again?

Can I talk my, okay, all right. So I'm on Twitter, you know, as I do. You know, I'm a millennial. You know what I mean? You know how we do. So I see a tweet from Mark Stein. Shout out Mark Stein. Shout out.

It's a good dude, bro. Good shit. It's a good shit. I love Mark. Mark Stein. Anyway, he tweets out, the NBA will soon be up to nine teams allowing reduced crowds with Atlanta and Miami planning to start admitting fans this week. Indiana started last week, and Memphis is allowing floor seat and suite holders in their arena. Cleveland, Houston, and New Orleans, and Orlando and Utah are the others that are letting fans into the arena right now. Raja.

Atlanta is one of the teams that are letting fans into the arena. It's about 10% of the arena. This is coming, I don't know if you're aware of this. I know you're aware of this because we talk about this pretty regularly. We are in the middle of a pandemic. That's why me and you aren't together right now doing this podcast. We're in the middle of a pandemic. In Georgia right now, we're the Hawks play.

I'm not sure if you're aware. The Hawks play in the state of Georgia. last week about 91% of the state's ICU beds were occupied because of COVID, right? That was 91% you said. 91% of ICU beds are being used in the state of Georgia right now for COVID. And then the other team, Miami, who was also going to use, who's also going to open up their arena, We already know how Florida gets down with the pandemic. They have been a poster state of negligence.

And continue to be. And continue to be. They don't give a. They don't care. They don't give a fumble. They don't give a fumble, right? They don't give a fumble, right? They don't give a fumble.

So Atlanta is about to open up, Atlanta's about to open up their arena for fans. Limited capacity. Allegedly social distancing, because as we've seen in any other sport, like the NFL, you know, there's not going to be social distance and you're going to put them on the concourse and things like that, right? And you talk about these, let me tell you these other teams, Houston Rockets, right? We already know how Texas get down with the pandemic. They are not tripping off of this at all, right? And I'm not speaking on no high horse because California is about to go to a tier system too, and I am not with that at all.

Right? The Indiana Pacers, Indiana has not been tripping off none of that, mask wearing none of that. a theme going on, sir. The Salt Lake City where the Utah Jazz play. Utah has not cared about closing their state at all, right? But this is a bigger thing to

me, right? And also Memphis, and Memphis is the biggest one. They're allowing court side seats. They've been doing that for the past couple of weeks. I don't know if you're aware, Roger, but the Memphis Grizzlies have had to postpone their last five straight games. I don't know if there's a correlation in that, but

And so I was talking to my homie Evan Barnes, who covers the Grizzlies. And, you know, they say, yeah, man, you know, they're getting rapidly tested and things like that. They're rapidly testing fans to go courtside. Now, that seems good in theory. However, we all know this by the CDC guidelines that, you know, you can be asymptomatic or you can't, that's not it. The biggest thing is you can be asymptomatic, but that's not the point. The point is it could take up to five days for you to even show symptoms, and you could have COVID. You could have COVID and test negative because it's not showing up in your body.

Right. But my biggest thing, Rasha, and this is why I am pissed, and this is why I'm going to tell you why I'm mad. I'm going to tell you why I'm mad because the NBA, what have they done all summer, man? They've all said, we're about player safety. We're about Black Lives Mattering, right? This pandemic and this virus has disproportionately taken black and brown lives over everybody, right? And you're going to tell me that black lives matter to you, and you're going to tell me all these things about player safety, and you're going to tell me all these things yet you're going to line up some fans to sit courtside at an NBA game.

You let that happen on your watch. You let that happen. And you're going to tell me that you care about these players' safety. I don't even care about like if you're going to say that, just don't lie to me. Just don't, just don't, don't be a hypocrite. Don't do this, right? And this is another thing that I've had with the league and then Adam Silver because he is the one that said in a matter of weeks was like, we're not going to jump the line for vaccines. And then two weeks later, he's going to go and tell us, well, you know, it could be a great educational purpose for NBA players to get the vaccine.

No, man, you just want to, you just want to just want to do it. a politically correct way so you can make sure that every but honestly man we know it's a business this is just what it is we know what just don't lie to me raja am i wrong for feeling this way man am i wrong for i'm not even like just just i just feel like you're just lying to my face with all these things when all we know is that this is a business bro we're not just don't don't do me like this we don't say this bro because all you're doing is letting people open up crowds where states are allowing who don't really care about COVID are just running wild. Am I wrong for these statements, Rajabelle?

If I'm wrong, just let me know. I grew up in Miami and in the Virgin Islands. You learned to speak Spanish when you live there. What I will say to you is, Negosios so negotiations, baby. Business is business, dog. That's what it is, Logan. You hit the nail on the head.

You just need to come out and say it and stop. like stop acting like people don't already know and you're fooling someone with the narrative that you're trying to create. It's about, it's about business. And that that's okay. But, you know, like talking out of both sides of your mouth, you lose credibility. And that's, that's, that's the space that the NBA and Adam Silver are dangerously, um, stepping into. Like, if they haven't already. And it sounds like for someone like you, they've already entered that space. and that's fair, but you're getting critically close for people to, to, you've got a, so the NBA, interestingly, of all the leagues, you know, the NBA gets a lot, they get passes sometimes that other

leagues don't get because Adam Silver's been, you know, a real player-friendly owner and, and, and, you know, the NBA's a really, commissioner, commissioner, sorry, commissioner, but they've done a, they've done a really good job of creating a narrative and a brand that's kind of, you know, fan-friendly and so on and so forth. And you're getting dangerously close to having people start to question that. And so, I mean, I can't elaborate anymore on what you're saying because everything you said was correct. But in money, you know, business is business, though. Yeah, yeah. I do get that.

And that's just been a problem that I've just had with the league, just speaking out of both sides of the mouths in general. You know what I mean? Like, you could say like, yeah, we got Donald Sterling about the paint, but like a few years ago. But, I mean, he was a racist for a long time. And it just took, it was the optics were just bad, right? Like that was pretty much what it seemed like, right? Like, you're talking. Dog, wait, let me ask you, do you think, look, let's keep it a buck, dog.

Like Donald Sterling, Donald Sterling got caught saying some wild shit on tape. You think Donald Sterling is the only one of them owners that says wild shit? Like that? Absolutely not. I know that he's, I see the jig, Roger. I'm just saying, like, I think the NFL, and I have a lot of. problems with how the NFL operates, obviously, but at least the NFL, the NFL just, they just don't give a fuck.

They just don't. They don't. They don't give a fuck. They had the, like, they had the audacity to, you know, all the stuff with Colin Kaepernick, and then they're going to fucking give me an ML Clay video on the Twitter the other, the last week during MLK week. Like, they just don't get me. Fuck.

Right. And I do not, I have a lot of problems with the NFL, but like, sometimes I just be wishing the NBA. just don't, just don't do this, man. Just stop lying to me, bro. Just, we get that it's a business. We get that, like, what you have to do? Just, what are we doing, man?

Yeah. And I don't think there's anything to your point. We get it. We get it. Just say it. Like, don't be trying to, you know, muddy the waters and make people think that it isn't what it is. Just be, like, out in front with the way it is.

And look, dog, things have changed. Hey, we're in the, we might lose our season, bro. Like I know I said we weren't going to vaccinate the players like before anybody else, but we're in jeopardy this whole thing crumbling too much money's on the line, dog. Like we might have to get these vaccines. Right. Exactly. And so, exactly.

Too many people are getting, we thought it was going to be straight. But then that wave happened. And it was like, damn, well, like, things have changed. Correct. Things have changed on them. Things have changed. And listen, man, it is what it is. We see capitalism all the time.

We see all this stuff that's happening. My question to you, though. is how would you, now, let's go to the player's side of this. How would you feel, Roger, if you're going to Memphis, right, and you see, you see that they just had this man that, you're reading in the paper because, you know, you like, I don't know if you read your news on iPad and stuff like that. I don't know, you know, but you're reading your New York Times paper. You got your glasses off, off to the end of your nose, and you're just like, and you see,

oh. I'm going to tell you what. You're lucky that we're podcasting over, over, yeah, you're lucky we ain't sitting across the table. from each other right now. No, but so you see the news that, oh, we're about to go to Memphis right now, and there's courtside seats, there's courtside fans. How are you feeling, Roger? What's going through your mind?

Nah, not, not court side. Not court side, Logan. You know, you could be the court side ticket holder and be given the benefit of being one of the only people led in the arena because you pay the premium for the seats, but that seat needs to not be court side. Like put them, you know, at the top of the first bowl, right? And it's still exclusive because only you guys are in here, but don't have him sitting right next to me on the damn court. Yeah, no, not at all.

And then, like, I remember I saw the Lakers were in Houston. And all those fans, when LeBron goes through the tunnel, you know exactly what happens. Man, when LeBond was exiting the floor, everybody coming to the, everybody coming to the tunnel. Right. And LeBron just doesn't have a mask on. He's throwing his stuff. And like it just doesn't seem like great optics, man. It doesn't matter what you do.

Like, this social distancing is just, it's not going to happen in these arenas, bro. We saw it. I know you watched the NFC and AFC championship games. Yes. That should look lit. Those two games, it looked like it wasn't sold out, sold out, but it was too many fans from my comfort level, definitely. No doubt.

I mean, listen, you remember we talked about the Notre Dame Clemson Do you remember that game? I do. That happened also in Indiana where the Pacers play, who are also letting fans in. But yeah, I saw that, man. Yeah, dog. Like, it's, again, man, just don't say that the player safety is the priority.

Say that we run a business. And during the pandemic, it's very, very, you know, difficult. And it's a precarious situation for us. And we have to be flexible and change according to, like, the bottom line. And right now the bottom line says this is what we need to do. Listen, it's a negotiation, bro. Like, let's not act like the NBA was just like the social justice. Oh my goodness.

Yeah, great league. Let's be real, man. They put Black Lives Matter on the court and spent that bread because that was the only way you were going to get Black Lives on the court because that's what they, that's what they requested when you were trying to get them back on so you can make, you can fulfill your TV money your TV obligation. Let's just keep it a buck, man. We're not like, that's just another thing. Then I just, it's just the hypocrisy. Like, it's still a business. And again, just don't lie to me. And I just feel like I've just been, I don't like being lied to, Raj. And I just feel like I'm

constantly being lied to by this league right now. And then this league that has built up so much goodwill through this bubble. And I just feel like it's just eroding right now. That's my fear. What you just said is my fear. Like the league that had. And like, so I feel like, like the NFL appeals like I love the NFL but like their their diehard fan is a more conservative person like do you know what I mean like the NBA's got fan is not wearing masks and stuff right that's their diehard base like our the NBA's diehard basis is is is you know a more moderate to liberal yes correct to liberal yeah um so during like all of this stuff you have built up a lot of goodwill as a league and I feel like a lot of people feel the way you feel where

where you're like you're fucking lying to me over and over again you're you're starting to a road and that's a dangerous thing. Like for a league's health in general, post-pubble, you know what I mean? Because there's a lot that goes into the fans supporting the brand and feeling that goodwill and genuine, like, connection with it. And when you start to erode that, like there could be real ramifications down the line.

Yeah, I remember, and I can't help but think, like, how David Stern would do it. Because David Stern, I feel like would have just been gangster with it. I know you don't like David Stern, but he would have just been like, No, no, this is what we're doing. This is what's going to happen. He would have been a G with his.

Yes, it would have been, there would have been no, like, hey, man, I'm trying to cloak it in this or that. This is the way it's going down. It's happening right now. You guys are going to play. We're going to try to get this vaccine because we need it for our league to survive. How about that? That's exactly what David Stern.

And hate him or love him. And I didn't hate him, but I just didn't have any great, like, interactions with David Stern. So I couldn't say that I loved him. You always had to respect him because he kept it a buck like that. He was not talking out of both sides of as well. He was like, no, I remember the first time I saw David Stern was just like a real, like a real G with his for better or worse. Was that that Chris Paul veto trade?

When he vetoed that trade, it was like, yeah, I was acting as a team owner. What? Now make another deal, please. Yeah. Oh, you're going to criticize me? Okay. All right. We're good.

We're good. He's not going to be a Los Angeles Laker. He's not happening. I'm not happening. We're not doing it. Oh, and I'm not a commissioner right now. I'm the owner of the New Orleans Hornets right now. So.

Correct. And then I'll flip back to be the commissioner to sign off on the deal that I just made for the Hornets as the owner of the Hornets. Sorry. How you like that? Sorry, not sorry. Yeah. But like, I just want that to happen. I don't know if it's going to happen.

But like, that's just been a theme. And I think that, and I just want to say that, I think that Adam Silver has been a really good commissioner for this. Sure. This, this, this, during his tenure, I just think one criticism is that I just feel like he speaks out of both sides of mouth sometimes to appease everyone. Whereas the, the league had some of his highest ratings when, uh, David Stern was just telling people, whoop, tough shit. This is what it is. You know? Yeah.

Um, I hear you. Hey, look, so I, I heard, no, this is the same topic, but Miami is in, and going to use. COVID sniffing dogs which is some Florida shit I mean I even like when I was reading up on that and it's like a lot of people say it's

it's cool at best it is not something that you want to make the end all it's kind of like temperature checks right because like if you're asymptomatic with temperature checks right I mean your temperature could be fine and you still like go walk into the restaurant. I don't feel safe

with someone text my temperature, bro. But is this a thing, though? Like, if I'm walking around with the flu, am I admitting an odor that I ordinarily wouldn't admit? Like, how is, like... It's just not as... I mean, it's semi-reliable, but it's not as reliable as, like, it's not the end-all be-all. It's like, I don't know how

much you're into, like, memes and stuff on Twitter, but it's like the meme where the security guard is barely patting down the people that come into the building. That's what it seems like when the dog, and the temperature checks with me. It's like, oh, you got the temperature check.

Now, going to the super spreader event. Like, I just, no. Speaking of super spreader events, right? I hopped on yesterday because, you know, they're coming to the Super Bowl's coming to Tampa. I was like, you know what? COVID's taking its toll. Let's just check out the tickets.

Maybe we drive up. Don't require a plane. We can Airbnb. We hop in there for a little while. Yeah. You know how much a ticket for that bad boy was, bro? How much? 30 racks per ticket.

Nah, fam. Yes, fam. Yes. I'm saying non-fam, never. Yeah, never. What? Who are you telling me? So I put in, I put in, you know, there are four or five of us. So I'm like, yeah, let's just do five.

Let's just see what that looks like. I'm expecting, I don't know, maybe, you know, 20 grand, 30 grand. I think it was 100 in change. It's like, yeah, no, we're not. We're not going. We're not going to the Super Bowl. Sorry, we're not. The Anderson's got tickets.

The bells did not. We did not get tickets. No, I mean, also like, Super Bowl is one of those things. It's like, I've just been like, I've just accepted the fact that I'm not ever going to go to a Super Bowl unless like it's free unless I'm covering it or I get the hookup on some free tickets, bro. It's just not happening, man. It's just not going to happen. Completely off topic, right? But we had Matrix on it.

He was talking about that Super Bowl party that he, that he had where he got traded, the one that I didn't get to go to. Yeah, he's just so bitter about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was having another party at that time, right? And so it was Steve Nash and Sean Marks and Eric Puyakowski and some other players that were coming over to watch the Super Bowl with us. Right before, like an hour before kickoff, I get a call. The Super Bowl's in Phoenix that year. It is the Patriots undefeated, Randy Moss and Tom Brady against Eli Manning.

It was the catch game, right? I get a call saying like, hey, man, I got two tickets for the suite. Can you and your wife come to the game? What is Logan Murdoch doing that situation? You've already got a little party of your people coming over, but you get this once in a lifetime shot at going to the Super Bowl. What do you do? You had the party, and I think you're a better person than me because I'm like,

well, check this out, guys. I just got a Super, like, especially, I just got Super Bowl tickets. I'm going to this bowl. Sorry. I was completely late. This has been a theme of yours, Raja. This has been a theme of yours, like just loving your family over doing great things. No, it wasn't even loving my family because,

My wife was pissed. She was like, why didn't we go to the fucking game? I'm like, well, you know, we had people coming over. And so, you know, and she's a big giant fan, and I've never lived that down. So, eh, just curious. She should have, she was, she was, Mrs. Bell was like, did a, did a Roger Bell special. Fuck the motherfuckers. Let's, let's go.

Let's go to Scottsdale. She was on that. We're out. We're out. It was 15 minutes away. We're gone. Oh, you're out of pocket, dog. Oh, geez.

Damn, man. I, shit. Sike. well then yeah man just don't just moral of the story man just tell the truth you know what I mean

just tell the truth keep it a buck man we just it's out of silver I've rocked with what you've done as a commissioner just keep it a buck with with the fan base bro just because you're not

you're not gonna appease every you're not gonna appeal to everybody be a real one be a real one bro be a real one be a real one speaking of real ones man uh tomorrow

marks the tragic passing of a real one, Kobe Bryant. I remember where I was when that happened. I know you remember where you were when that happened. We don't have to get to that. Let's just go to the happy stuff, man. Before we get out of here, Roger, what's your favorite Kobe Bryant moment of all time? I have two favorite Kobe moments.

My favorite, my first one is, first time back in Staples after the clothes line. and stuff like that. And I've told this story before, walking down the tunnel, seeing Kobe and some people walking in front of me at a slower pace than I'm walking, knowing that I have to pass by them

to get to my bus. And that I, before we get to the bus, I'm going to have to go by them. Fully anticipating, like maybe we got a scrap, like whatever that looks like, I don't know.

And as I pass him, hearing my name called and being like, no shit, here we go. And as I turn around, it's his wife, it's his mother-in-law and his daughters.

And he's just like, hey, Raj, man, I want you to meet. You know, this is my mother and law and this is so on and so forth. And I just, that was really, really cool because that was the beginning of like, it was the first time I knew that there was some mutual respect there and that we weren't going to have like hard feelings for the rest of our lives about that. Like, you know what

I'm saying? So that was one of my favorite moments. My second favorite moment was, uh, I was out in LA for the SB's and I was a free agent and, you know, I was going to, Kobe asked if we could meet to talk about me, maybe coming to L.A. And I was like, yeah, bet. I'm staying like at the Marmont, like, or wherever I was down. The shot I'm on. Yeah. He was like, yeah.

I'm in, I'm in Malibu. Like, I live out in Malibu, so on and so forth. I'm like, he was like, okay,

I'll send somebody to get you. I'm like, okay, bet, like what are they, you know, what are they going to be driving? And he was like,

nah, it's the Mamba chopper. I'm sending the chopper. And he called it the Mamba chopper. Get to the chopper. It was the chopper. And I was like, damn,

though, this is some other level, this is some other level shit, man, this dude and he explained like I take the chopper, you know, in and out because traffic's so bad and that's the way I get down there. That's so gangster, man. That's so gangster. I didn't realize, before we get to my stories, I didn't realize like how far Orange County was from L.A. I'm just like, why could you just freaking drive, Kobe? But I get it. Right. I get it.

You want to live all the way out and the O.C. And then you need a chopper, man. You need to be rich enough to get a chopper, bro. And he was sending it. Yep. And you spurned a great. Let me tell the third story. I tell the third story real quick. Yeah, tell the third story.

I tell the third story. Let's go. Let's get it. So I'm in Charlotte. Nope, I'm on Charlotte's team. It's the night like I tear my wrist up and have to get surgery. But I don't know that I need surgery yet. Kobe doesn't know that I need surgery.

And we've played an entire preseason game against each other, right? In staples preseason. Pleasantry is talking a little, you know, like what we do, just whatever. And I'm getting dressed in my. locker and I feel like this lingering presence. I've done my media already. So now I'm getting dressed. I'm kind of like leave me be, right? And something is just like hovering over me. So I finally look up like, who is still here? What did they want? And it's a dude dressed in all black, looks like the men in black, right? I think his name was Robert. And he's like,

hey, Mr. Bell, you know, I'm Robert, Kobe's, Mr. Bryant's security. Mr. Bryant would like to know if you'd like to go to dinner with him tonight. And I was like, I just fucking played against this man for like for a whole two hours bro and he like he didn't say shit about that post game dapp up and stuff like that dog all of that and like I'm like sitting in my locker and there's like a security guard there asking if mr. Bryant like if you'd like to go to dinner with mr. Bryant like and I thought I just thought that was like so Kobe like he lived in like kind of a different world like that than I did you know yeah I was like the time when I saw Stephen A. Smith and he was and it was so gangster he was like

He answered the phone. He was getting his car service. He answered the phone. He was like, yes, this is Mr. Smith. And then walked out the coolest way. I'll be right out. I'll be right up, Mr. Smith. But so I got two stories for Kobe, man.

And one of those is, actually, I might have three, but we'll see. The first one is actually had to do with, and I tell this story a lot with, my mom used to do to cover games up in sack and uh you know she um you put me on the headset and was like yo man just listen because you knew the lakers are my favorite team growing up and um she uh she um interviewed shack co shack uh phil and then the last was Kobe broke all journalistic code and was like yo my son is a huge fan of yours he's on the phone right now and Kobe goes If you can hear me telling him, I said, what's up? And I was like, I don't know what I want to do.

But if journalism allows me to have these experiences, that I want to go to do journalism. That's like kind of why I'm here right now. So that's the first Kobe story. That's a pretty big deal. That's a pretty big deal. Yeah. And second one was also happened in Sacramento.

I remember it was one of my, it was the King's home opener in 20, 11. And I was in, I was in Fresno at the time because I was, it was Christmas time. So I was, I was with the fam for Christmas. And I remember that I got the credential to go to the game to the game up in the second. It's about a three hour drive from Fresno to sack. And I, it was, I remember, I was like, I have to get to shoot around. I don't know what shoot around is, but I know you get to talk. The Lakers are going to have shoot around. So, well, freaking go to shoot around. Right. So I woke up at like 6 a.m., bro.

Got to sack at like 9. And remember I walked in and I heard Kobe before I saw him, which is probably appropriate because it was just like, it was like this mythical like great figure. And I remember I, he had done his availability. And I never really asked a star a question before. And I was like, in Sacramento, the Kings were having this promotion that they were called, like, it was a blackout. So they were going to have all the fans wearing black. And I told Kobe, it was going to be like a fan question.

And it wasn't even a good question. It was like, and I started off, I'm like, hey, Kobe, so there's these blackouts in Sacramento. How are you going to handle it? And he's like, he looks at me. He's like, what the, what? What are you talking about? And I was like and I regrouped and I did it do and I explained him the promotion and I'm like, and he's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, gives me a great answer. You know, you know, Sacramento's always been loud, but you know, I've been doing this for a long time.

So it shouldn't be a problem. But, you know, Sacramento is like a really fun environment. And I'm looking forward to it. And, you know, that really brought me into journalism. That was my first time and it gave me confidence to ask players questions, right? Right. And the last one. was the next year I had gone and I asked Kobe a question and then I

went to L.A. I drove down to L.A. just for the Kings Lakers game. And I remember I asked him a question. And then afterwards, he had come out of the locker room. And I don't know why I had this audacity. I think I was like 19 or something. And I had this audacity. I was like, Kobe, I see you with two weeks, bro. Tap him on the shoulder because they were going to go to Sacramento.

And I was driving up from the Bay to Sack for internship. And he goes back. And I tap his shoulder. That probably wasn't the coolest thing to do because, like, I don't know him. I didn't know Kobe at all. And so I tap his shoulder. And then I walk behind him. I walk the other way.

And so two seconds later, I get a tap on the shoulder and it's Kobe. And it's hell of hard. It's like, all right, man, see you in two weeks. Bop on the back. And I'm like, oh. And I'm like, I call my mom. And I'm like, I never. I've never washed you this shoulder.

This is crazy. And yeah, and I was also like honored to be on the last, the last game of his in Oakland at Oracle. I was at that game. And I was on the court while he was leaving the floor for the last time in Oracle Arena. Like, you can see me on the TNT broadcast, me just like, you know, like getting the video and stuff. But like I was there while he was walking off.

And that was a big deal for me, right? Because like, I'm from Oakland, from the Bay. and, you know, to see him walk off, to see him in his last game in the bay was a pretty big deal. So, RIP, Kobe, I gave you like four stories, but like, yeah, man, it was, uh, rest in peace, man. Absolutely, bro. He was, uh, yeah, dog, like, that, that impact is forever, right? That legacy lives forever, bro, so rest in peace, brother. Rest in peace, man.

All right. Well, we will see you guys Thursday. Might have a, might have a little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, little, we would come through with the guests on the real ones on the Thursday show. Matrix was, Matrix was phenomenal. Matrix was phenomenal. He had a lot to skid off of his chest.

I am grateful for that. He was a great guest. Rep Hamilton was a great guest. Oh, facts. Yeah, yeah, Tim Duncan. Duncan. Come on, man. You know, we're just giving you this, you know,

maybe before that perk. Taylor Rooks. You know what I mean? We give you great guests on the real ones, man. We want to have something there for you. But in the meantime, check out our. other podcasts. Hey, tricks, tricks laughed at me when I was giving

the reading. I was paying the bills last week. I was just trying to get on. No shame and paying that bills, bro. Do you think? Go ahead. Let them happen. Just make sure you watch all of our slate, man. The answer, the mismatch, the group chat, you know, Super Bowl that's coming around the corner, man. Go listen to that on the Ringer NFL show feed.

Go watch R2C2 with Vallejo legend. C.C. Sabathia. Also, go ahead and check out the Ringer music show with my guy, Charles Holmes. Holla. You know,