The Ringer NBA Show - Are the Cavs Scary Good? Plus, More Way-Too-Early Jumps to Conclusions. | Group Chat

Episode Date: October 31, 2024

Justin, Rob, and Wos take a look at four Eastern Conference teams' interesting starts and draw some early conclusions. The Ringer is committed to responsible gaming. Please visit www.rg-help.com to learn more about the resources and helplines available. Hosts: Justin Verrier, Rob Mahoney, and Wosny Lambre Producer: Isaiah Blakely Additional Production Supervision: Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

A restaurant's best dishes tell stories. Their flavors embed themselves in our memory like song lyrics or lines from a movie. So much so that a little slice of a restaurant's story can become part of our own. I'm Danny Chow and this is ShiftMeal, a new video podcast from the Ringer where we're sharing a bite and chopping it up with chefs and restaurant people during their off hours. All episodes of Shift Meal are out now on Ringer Food. And welcome to GroupShare. am Justin Scarier and joining me. Red Rum Rob Mahoney, Freakishly large Waz. It is Halloween. We're all in the spirit, except for Rob. And some of us are more in the spirit because Waz refused to go on

camera before we started this podcast. We're waiting for the dramatic reveal. Waz, do you want to do it? You want to hit it? I'm ready. I'm ready. I'm back. I'm here. I'm here. I'm here. And those of you watching on YouTube or on social are going to wonder who I am. I was last minute Halloween shopping on Amazon and the title said hippie, but the guy somehow had a

dashiki on. So I decided I'm not a hippie. I'm woke, y'all. And for Zay, because Zay's going to understand, I'm a Hote. So yeah, you need to work with the brother man and not the other man, okay? Are you all ready?

You know this is not the woke bro's podcast. It is not. I mean, we are woke bros in our way, but you're elevating it. Oh, yeah, of course. And guess what, man? Zay said I'm insane, but yeah, no, we just having fun. Happy Halloween to all those who celebrate. Rob, what would you say you're going as for Halloween?

I mean, just the greatest terror of all, which is yourself, you know, what could be scarier than having to stare yourself in the mirror on Halloween? But honestly, Justin, would you like to describe what you're wearing for the audio audience? And also tell me what is happening because I have no idea what you are. I think I'm going as high fashion as represented by Kyle Kuzma. Yeah, your cooos. Yeah, you can't do this. Well, oh, see, we couldn't see the sleeves.

This is the problem where we're like, you know, chest up here on the on camera. I couldn't see the sleeve action. That's right. I had a couple ideas. I actually had my original idea rebuffed by Walmart because I bought it and then they were like, nope, can't have it, which was just like a big old basketball, which I listened to the podcast. You would know how much I'd appreciate this. But no, I feel like now is a good time as Coos is swearing off as his runway looks for us to embrace it,

especially on this Halloween day. How much does this have to do with the fact that Coos and his Washington Wizards beat your Atlanta Hawks in honest basketball last night? Who's your daddy, Justin? Maybe want to throw it in the trash. I'll be honest. But it's tough out there for the Hawks. They've had, what, 90 injuries since the last time we recorded?

I think that's just good timing in our part. We got in, got to say nice things about Atlanta. Might never talk about them again on this pod. Yeah, some people might see it as a group chat curse that we talk about your team and they immediately fall into disrepair. We would say we're timely and we got to talk about them in exactly the right moment. We're all time lords here. Are we?

I don't know. So today we are going to talk about four Eastern Conference teams that we're just like trying to figure out. You know, we're still like what? About over a week into the regular season, 2024, 25 season. And we're jumping to some conclusions. I'm wondering how soon is too soon to do so. We got four teams from the East who are standing out in their own special ways.

I think we have to start first and foremost with the Cleveland Cavaliers who are fucking electric. The only 5-0 team in the NBA right now. First on offense in the NBA, even more so than the Boston Celtics, who just haven't been able to miss this entire season, especially on opening night against the Knicks. Two things stand out to me about what the calves are doing, especially on offense. One, can't miss a goddamn shot. 62.4 effective field goal percentage. So if you're going to make all those shots, I think good results are going to come from it. The other part of this, though is that they're moving. You know, they're playing with pace, eighth and pace this season, as opposed to 24th last

season. And they don't just look big and imposing like they have in the past. Like they're going to just like win in the mud. These guys are moving up and down the floor, Rob. And so they look more like athletic bigs than they do just plotting bigs, which they had in the past under J.B. Bickers staff. Yeah. And they have the guys to do that, right?

When you think about Jared Allen and Evan Mowgli, those guys who can get up and down the floor if you let them and if you encourage them to play that way. And I think the combination of getting your bigs to run in transition, plus the way that Cleveland is flying around on the perimeter defensively, this isn't just laying back and waiting on your rim protectors to do your job for you. They're creating a shit ton of turnovers. And I think you saw in the game against the Lakers especially, they just like were refusing to let anything easy go to LeBron.

Like he can post up, but you're going to contest the entry pass. He can cut, but you're going to try to cut off the ball on the way. And the way that they were able to intercept some of that action, I think speaks to what they're doing so well here, which is then getting themselves out in transition, then getting so many more easy points. And yeah, if you're going to hit and take as many threes as they're taking,

things are going to go really well for you. Yeah, and also what I like now is they're really disciplined and their spacing is pristine. Against the Lakers, first of all, they made mincemeat of that freaking perimeter defense. Oh, yeah.

Not a single Laker guard could keep a person in front of them. And as soon as they did that, they were spraying out to shoot. Like, these guys knew exactly where every shooter was supposed to be and got it out immediately. Like, in the first quarter, Donovan Mitchell just came down and shot, like, pull up 25 footers because nobody was guarding him as if he was Steph Curry. And I think that's cool because he's always been a wonderful three-point shooter. But now, I guess he's being empowered to act like he is.

And so that's what I think. The philosophy just looks way different than what it has been. been in the past. And, yeah, Atkinson deserves all the credit. Rob, is this the pace they're playing? Is it the continuity finally burbling and coming together when everyone is fully healthy? Like, what are you noticing that's different about them this year?

I think it's pace and not just up and down the floor, but the tempo of how they're getting into their stuff feels noticeably different. I thought, you know, to Waz's point about the way they're able to break down what the Lakers were trying to do on the perimeter and their perimeter defenders, it just felt like the calves were consistently one and two moves away from a clear breakdown, right? Not just, okay, we're going to get into a decent shot, but a wide open shot. And a lot of that is the pace and the crispness of your execution, which is easier to do when you have this continuity, but also is easier to do when you have this kind of spacing. And I think overall, the way that the lineups

have been balanced works much more in their favor. Some of that is actual change. Some of that is guys hitting shots. Some of that is just, again, staggering some of the stars out and the bigs out to give them room to breathe. Some of it, if we're going to be honest, and this is zeroing in on something that might seem very small, Dean Wade is kind of a big deal for this team. Get him a statue. Get him a statue. Him being back in the lineup and healthy again is a huge deal.

And we're going to see, you know, honestly, I'm not even operating under the assumption that Max Drews should be the presumptive starter when he comes back. Maybe it makes no sense to bring Max Trues, aka Justin,

off the bench for the foreseeable future, and just roll with what brought you here. Because this group clearly knows how to play together. And in particular, Dean Wade knows the, assignment in the sense that when he gets the ball, it's going up. Like, he does not hesitate on those jumpers. He's not dawdling around. He plays one specific role and he's played it really, really well for them so far. And Wade might be the only one on this team not hitting his jump shots at this point. He's a

very good shooter and they're going to fall, but he's only hitting 33% from three. I'd loved watching him guarding Jalen Brunson without falling, like staying in front of him, moving his feet, getting tall. I was like, who is this guy? And so if he's going to be able to give that sort of perimeter or half to this team. Like, you're right. There is a certain balance to everything going here. Because you even look at the scores, the four guys that we always talk about with this team. Mitchell is going off here and there, but it doesn't feel like it's always disjointed from the rest of the offense. Like, it feels like everything is happening as a flow. And to that point, he's scoring 24 points, Mobley, who we should definitely talk about, 19 points, Allen 18,

Garland 18. It just seems like everything is synergistic and wonderful at this point. And it's just like it's creating a lot of good basketball was. Yeah, they seem free to do more than they've been accustomed to. This offense last year was very much station to station, you know, kind of your turn, my turn with Garland and Mitchell in terms of who was running things. Now it seems like everything is of a piece, which makes all the difference in the modern NBA. Back in the days, you could have a superstar to have them just cook people.

every single game take their turns cooking people, you know, no illegal defense, none of that stuff. You can just isolate and, you know, beat up on average defenders in the NBA. These defenses are way more sophisticated now, and so offenses have to reciprocate that sophistication. And it's crazy to see what they've started out as, as compared to, you know, where they kind of bottomed out at, not just against the Celtics where, you know, all their guys with out.

These guys could not score against the magic last year. Okay, they looked like a piss-poor. offense. And I think ultimately they'll end up between where that was and where this is right now. But it's a great sign to see that things have completely been overhauled specifically on the offensive end because that's been their Achilles Hill for two straight playoffs. Well, they're not always going to shoot 40 plus percent from three. We can confidently say that. But for a team that has this much continuity, I have been impressed by the meaningful differences, just in level of play, not to say even just the way these guys are being.

used under Kenny Atkinson, but Donovan Mitchell's been making some some real like next level passes, right? Like really, really advanced stuff that we have been kind of waiting for him to be able to do. Now, it's one thing to do it in the regular season. It's another thing to do it against playoff scrutiny and pressure and that level of defender. We'll see how it goes as we usually do with him. But I've been impressed so far. Mowbly in particular, I want to clear out to talk about him some more.

But the way he's been attacking smaller guys when they dare to guard him, it's not quite as forceful as you might ultimately want in the sense that he's not putting them in the stanchion but he's getting all the way to the basket and getting layups, you know, and sometimes and once, honestly. It's not the force of the kind of dunk you might want, but it's impressive and successful and exactly

ultimately what this team needs. Jared Allen, I think ultimately has been probably the most similar of any of their core guys in terms of the way he has played, but getting up and down the floor more as we alluded to. And Darius Garland, good Lord, playing with a confidence he did not have at the end of last season, you know, releasing with a confidence

that he needs to play with. Like he is that caliber of shooter, but he has to be in rhythm and he has to be feeling it, and he has been so far. And he's such a good passer, too. If he needs to downshift into that role, it's just such a natural progression

if he's not hitting, which he wasn't against the Lakers, and he was just getting the ball moving and getting guys involved. I do worry, like, as the season goes on, if he's not getting shots, like maybe he will grumble because he is the type of guy,

I think, on another team to get more opportunity. But if you're going to be winning at this clip and things are going to be going so well, like that solves a lot of issues. I think here we need to talk about Evan Mobley because I think you're right. He's just like completely jumped off the screen.

And I thought it was funny against the Knicks. He ended up in the same situation he did time and time again, both in that first round series. And then the following season when he played the Knicks early on in the season where he would drive into the lane and get immediately met by a big old lug right at the paint. And before he would just look completely out of sorts. He would kick it out or he would just like try to throw

something up that was wild and he hit i think it was in the third quarter hit hot purdy who is a large giant of a man playing back up center for however long the nix will allow him to do so and mowbly just like kind of did his thing he like he pivoted he pivoted and then he found the right angle to go up on him and i'm like oh like a couple months ago even maybe even in the playoffs he would have just kicked that back out because he didn't know what else to do just seems like he's problem solving at a different level than he was last season. Yeah, I think we often fall in love with the idea that a big man can shoot, right? Like, oh, he stretches the floor. Oh, you know, he opens up all this space for the rest. Oh, we're five out. Like, we get excited about that thing. But to me, it's much more important

that a big man actually plays big, that a team is punished on a pick and roll for taking the big man off. And you'd be like, all right, well, stick a small guy in you. He'll contest your shot from three, not allow you to put the ball on the floor. You're easily guardable. When you're a big man who now when you switch a little guy on me, I'm going to punish that guy. You're going to have to send help or I'm going to get filed or I'm going to kick out four or three. Like that to me is way more important than a big guy who can make a three every now and again.

And the fact that this guy is playing with his tools, right? Like, you know, Rob and all of his other biggest fans out there loved the wingspan. You know, just the idea that this guy had like a seven plus foot wingspan and he could move his feet. Like, that's enticing on the defensive end, and he's shown, you know, the defensive potential has borne out. Like, we know this guy is an all-world defender. Now

he's using his tools to actually affect stuff on offense, which to me, you know, again, playing what your actual size would indicate is, that's just the biggest step in the right direction. And as far as whether Mowgli should be that kind of physical force in playing big

or the floor spacer who can make room for other people, you know, my or be why not both? Why not a little of both? And if anything, I think what I would love to see for him overall over the course of this season, oddly enough is something we saw a couple of years ago from Tyrese Maxi, which is when James Hardin was still a Sixer, there were almost two different maxis. There was the version when Hardin was in the game and there was the version when he was kind of running the offense with the second unit. With the starters, Evan Mobley is going to take some threes. And he's been hitting him so far this season. Honestly, dating back to the last couple

months of last season has been more aggressive in taking them better at making them starting to show a little bit of range there. The volume right now is super low. But that's kind of going to be his role in some of those units with Jared Allen. When Jared Allen's out of the game, he's got to be a monster. And I think he has been. And if anything, all this talk about the pace that the calves are playing with, a lot of that is getting, letting Mowbly go coast to coast and transition or at least start the break in a way that freaks teams out. Because he may not be big enough to plow through people in the way that say, like, Paulo Van Kiro can plow through people. But if he's a way that you, he's a way that you

you think you're in front of him, he gets one stride past you and you're toast. You just have nothing to do at that point. I thought James Herbert had a great story about Evan Mobley on CBS that everyone should check out about like the train, kind of the transformation in his role this season. And Kenny Atkinson had said that he thought that like 70% of his coaching interview was about unlocking Evan Moble. How do we do that? It is an organizational priority because Donovan Mitchell is going to be this version of this player, give or take with some advancements. Jared Allen, I think, is going to be the workmanlike center you want him to be.

And Darius Garland does have some potential, but not to the extent that Mobley does. Like, if he can take the leap and he's at least kind of indicating that he's, he's inclined in that direction. Changes everything for what Cleveland's trying to do. Yep. He's the ceiling changer. I'm glad you mentioned that part about kind of the slow break because you're right. It seems like he in particular

just is well suited to that, where it's like, not only is he just getting out and running, but it also seems like he's more decisive in those moments when the defense isn't set. It's just like, it's just going downhill. There was one time where you just had Reeves kind of backtrack and he went right to him. And it's so that like it's the blend of that athleticism, but also the force that I think you love from Mobley. And I think that's why I'm so high on the calves right now.

It just seems like they're playing like athletes who are big as opposed to just big old plotters, which is the word last season. And it almost seems like they're taking on the identity of a Mobley as opposed to an Allen before. And I think a lot of that is just because Mobley is starting to, assert himself is not only a defensive player, but an offensive player. Yeah, and the handle is still a little loopy, if we're going to be totally fair. Like, he's, he's a giant human being. It's got a lot of, a lot of time and space to cover with the ball coming back up to his hand.

It gets a little loose. But I think when you're playing that fast, too, that's the thing. It doesn't matter, yeah. If you're playing that fast and you have those sorts of physical advantages in terms of length, you can be a little loose. It just, you need to be careful about the turnovers, but you'll see a lot of possessions where the ball almost seems to get away from him. and he still manages to kind of pull something out of it.

And I think playing that deliberately, and as Justin said, with that much force, it changes the way the refs officiate you. When you're hesitant and you look like, maybe I kind of want to do it, nobody's calling a foul on that. Like, it's not happening. The briffs are like, I'm not bailing this dude out,

but when you play with a purpose and you play with force, you put the officials in a position, you know, to call you differently, which I think, you know, That's a big part of how you become more effective. And to that point, he's making his free throws. He's 16 for 18 this season. That's kind of been like a slow process.

He's 60s and then 70s last year. Clearly, he could be a good shooter. And that's like an indication of that. But if he's making his free throws, no longer afraid, perhaps, of getting onto the free throw line so you can play with a little bit more reckless abandon. And so I don't know, Rob,

I'm starting to talk myself into this team being pretty legit. Is it too soon to start to think of this as like the clear main competition for the Celtics in the East? I think in the regular season, it's not too soon. The Cavs have always been a really good regular season team, consistently near the top of the league,

and not just in terms of their record, but net rating, like all the big picture indicators have always liked what they do. It's been a question of when they do get to the playoffs, do they have the level of execution that you need to really bust through. And I think a lot of what's held them back

has been the relative and experience of guys like Mowgli and Garland and even Allen to some extent. And just the limitations in terms of playmaking. But if you're able to maintain this pace against the most competitive teams, and I think that was what was most reassuring about seeing them do it against the Lakers who've been one of the best teams in the league in the early stages of this season is this is not slim competition, right?

You're running against the kind of team you need to run against, which is a pretty formidable half-court opponent that will slow you down if you let them. And they just punch the Lakers in the mouth and kept going and kept going. And that game was over basically before anyone in a Lakers uniform knew it. And so that tells me they are ready for a really, successful regular season. They have a very clear sense of how they want to play. And that can take them a long way,

especially in a field where the Sixers need to get very healthy at some point to even prove that they can be anything. The Knicks are still trying to find their way. The Bucks are a disaster, as we're going to talk about. Who else other than the Celtics is the competition here, for say, the two-seat in the Eastern Conference? I think the Cavs have the inside track on that. Yeah, I tend to agree with Rob.

And everybody, you know, this is. gets on my nerves, but all of the quants and all of the hipsters on the internet kind of foresaw this, thought the Cavs were going to be really good this regular season. So you're mad that the quants foresaw this? Yeah, I hate when that happens.

I don't like when the dorks are right. When the math. Yeah, I hate that. It really added up on this one. That's tough. No, but, like, yeah, they're going to be a strong regular season team because you know, their defense. front is solid as can be most regular seasons. You don't have to adjust your base defense when you were a great defense.

Like, you don't have to get out of that. You don't have to, you know, scheme for opponent. You don't have to do any of that. And they have the pieces to be super good on defense. And now they're playing a more balanced, more creative, more imaginative offense. And so, you know, and again, teams are not game planning to stop what they're doing. Not yet anyway. Sure.

And so, yeah, I think they have all the tools to be a great regular season team. I think in the playoffs last year, what ended up happening was that if Donovan Mitchell didn't score 40, they had no chance of winning. And I think it looks like there'll be a lot more than that as a playoff outfit. So that's exciting for us who, you know, are watching them and for their fans. I think they also look less vulnerable, Justin, in terms of previously you could create designs, especially with an opponent like the Celtics, where they could pick on Garland. where they get pig on Mitchell and kind of just their lack of size defensively. But if the whole team is swarming

and creating these like turnovers at this level and filling up space and jamming gaps, I think it helps those guys. And it gives them like a bit of a flotation device in terms of those one-on-one matchups. Yeah, and that's probably where the continuity starts to really show, especially as you trickle down to the rest of the roster. Like in a vacuum,

I'm not a fan of a lot of some of their bench players, Laverda, Cora. Like, I'm just like kind of lukewarm on them. But they know. who they are at this point to the point where they're not like finding out what Dean Wade can and can't do in the midst of an important game against the Lakers. And it's just like Sam Merrill, it's just like if he's hitting, you go with them. If not, you know, you just sit them on the bench. And so there's a lot of guys here who are like average to like slightly below that. And I think they have enough to maybe paper through those holes as they go to the season. So yeah, I agree with what you guys are saying. It seems like they might be a shoe in for the two seats. Probably in the mix for the one, although the Celtics look like a goddamn buzzsaw. Yeah. There are just a stark contrast to what the Knicks are doing as well. It's just like,

there's still so much to figure out in terms of like who is even playing off the bench for the Knicks. And like whether or not Oji and Nob, like, can we get him fewer than 14 shots a game? There's just like there's a lot going on there. And I think you're seeing as you do typically at this time of year, the teams who know who they are, identity, continuity, all that stuff are going to pop early on. Can I name one guy off the Cleveland bench?

Sure. Ty Jerome has popped in a pretty big way. To me, he was an afterthought in this rotation. And if anything, we've seen a slight shift in the Kenny Atkinson era of taking the ball out of Karris Lavert's hands as sort of the one go-to creator on that second unit to very, very, very historically mixed results. Ty Jerome is kind of cooking out there and making the kinds of plays that, to be totally frank, I just did not know that he was capable of making.

So shout out to Ty Jerome. He's been playing really well. Well, I know one team that could use him, and that's the Milwaukee Bucks, certainly, who find themselves at one and three as we record this podcast on a Thursday afternoon. I think Yanna said it best was right now, we don't have an identity. And that's what happens when you lose to the Nets. It sends you into an existential crisis. So, like, what are you thinking about this Bucks team?

Are they as disappointing as they have been for me? It's definitely disappointing in terms of, what they've put out on the court. Yeah, we get it. Chris Middleton's not here, but when you watch the bucks, they just, the process is lacking.

And I think, first and foremost, the depth is killing them. Oh, my God, yeah. Number one suspect there is Bobby Portis, who, yeah, we get it. He's a feisty guy.

He talks a lot and he's always chirping, but plays no defense. All he cares about is Buck kids. Yeah, go ahead. Please. The number, one player in post-up frequency in the NBA?

Bobby fucking Portis. That's right. Scoring 0.71 points per possession on that. Let's go, baby. It's insane. I just think Portis in terms of role needs to be de-emphasized. I think Tibbs needs to not be afraid

to play Jackson and get them in there and let somebody with some actual energy who's not going to let guys score layups all day. get in there to sort of show up the bench unit. But that's been their main issue. The Celtics cooked them in their bench units.

The starters were fine. The starters have been basically fine. Yeah, okay. Yeah, they've been okay. But the bench has just been killing them. And that's one part. And I think Janus, quite frankly, is the other part. And we could get into that.

But I think Janus needs to change how he plays. Janus conceives of himself as a LeBron, as an initiator. I am LeBron. When realistically he's not, he's a finisher. If this team is going to take off, Janus needs to completely cut out the dribble, dribble, dribble, mid-range pull-up.

Why is he taking that shot? If not for anything but vanity. If not but for anything to prove the people that said, Janus has no bad. I can't take you talking about vanity while you're wearing those sunglasses and that afro. I just can't do it. No, but seriously, like, Janus needs to take a different approach.

They need to have a new way of playing. A lot of the stuff that used to work, the isolation, the battering ramp, teams have adjusted, and quiet as kept, Janice ain't no spring chicken no more. Like, it's hard for him to just beat people and overwhelm them with talent. Like, he needs to be more precise. They need to be a team that executes. And if the Barks are going to be the team that they think they are or the team that I think that they can be,

it's going to be because their starters dominate and they basically weather the storm on the bench. They can't have a so-so starting lineup and starting net rating and then have the bench come in and completely stink and think that they're going to be a good team. It has to change. I almost don't want to over-index too much on Janus

because I agree with what you're saying. And if anything, I am... But he's the most important. important player. He's the most important player. And I will say at this point, I am baffled by the complete lack of synergy between Janus and Dame. They just like, I thought at this point they would have found some kind of working relationship. But we're at the stage where straight up like, Brooke Lopez is just like a better pick and roll partner for Dame in a lot of these situations. Janus and Dame have been dominant individually to a degree that now concerns me because

they're being dominant and still losing because the defense is so bad. And as we alluded to, most importantly, the supporting cast is just not good enough. And this is a failure of team construction ultimately. Like if you have a rotation where Gary Trent Jr. And Torian Prince have to play 30 plus minutes a game. You have failed. You have failed before you have started. Like those guys are decent options to have.

But when they become the only choice, things get really, really messy. And you can see it consistently. Like the starters, as we said, are okay. Even the starters with Bobby Portis in for Janus have been okay. Everything else is a disaster. And that's not a sustainable way to run a rotation. Yeah, I just go back to the identity thing because it seems like they shifted identity but didn't like change the personnel to fit that.

When I think about the bucks at their absolute best, I think defense, right? I think historic near defensive potential protecting the rim, all that. They're 22nd in defense right now. I think the defense sparking transition, getting Janus out on the break, just battering ram right to the rim. they're 23rd in transition offense right now. And then I think when they're in the half court, they have the court spread in order to like bomb away while Janus does his thing.

They're 23rd in three point percentage right now. And so they almost wanted to juice the offense, play more in the half court, but then they have virtually no creators outside of Dame and whatever Janus is able to do. Obviously, Middleton is a big part of that. But who knows if he's going to come back? And when he's back, is Dame going to be out? Is Janus going to be out?

Like they need those four guys to be there like for 70, plus games. And the other thing is like right now the shooters ain't shooting. You know, they're not hitting. Like those one-dimensional guys, Lopez, to a certain extent, has been fine, but like Trent and Prince on down, the guys that they just need in order to provide the space there aren't hitting. Maybe that comes around there. But it's just like there's a lot of one-dimensional guys when they wanted to be multifaceted by bringing Dame in there. It's just like the vision isn't really coming to fruition. Yeah, I think what's hard too is some elements of that are working. Like, I actually think the bucks are still a really good a rim protection team they're just not guarding anything else well

like the midrange looks are so like so plush and so easy like who's there to do to guard those that's the thing like they're just they're giving a cushion and teams are taking advantage of it and they're also getting up a ton of threes against them in a way that overwhelms even the guys on the team who are shooting well like i actually think torrian prince has been like pretty decent in the role you would want him to play ideally, it's just that it's overstretched. And a lot of that will fix itself if and when Middleton comes back, as we've alluded to. I just, like, he doesn't fix all of the problems here.

He doesn't fix the overall structure of the team and how much you have to rely on some of these fringe guys who just like are not up to the roles that they're being put into. So we need to get back to Janus, because we need to talk about why the trade was even made, right? The danger holiday trade, you're talking about. Yes. When they won, when they won, when they won the,

championship in 21, they played world historic defense. We're talking about bad boy pistons, 04 pistons, 08 Celtics, world beating defense, record breaking defense. That's how they won the championship, which means what? That even in the best of times, their offense was shit when it mattered. Yes, they would be top five in the regular season and all of that, but when the playoffs would come, when defenses just had the game plan for their simplistic-ass offense, it failed. And then it culminated in that ultimate embarrassment against the heat. So management is like, guess what? That counting on our world beating defense is not the move. We need to have a more dynamic offense. The problem was everybody got the memo except for the two incumbents who

are most important, which is Janice and Chris Middleton. Like everybody, well, Chris Middleton has played. And when he has, he's been fine. The last time he's been healthy, they won the title. Yes, he's been fine in the spots that he's been healthy. But Janus refuses to accept that you can't play the way you used to. The entire point of Dane Lillard is we're flipping the math on how we win. We're going to be more dynamic on offense and we're going to kind of piece it together on defense. Yeah. But like, you can't be piecing both together. And Janus, as the Venus and the Mercury of every single offensive possession. Celestial vase in the fucking house today.

Let's go. I actually don't understand the reference. What? It was a mistake, but we roll. That's what I got partners for. Okay. I'm sorry. No, but the honest thing is like,

and look, because I'm invested in the bucks in their success, I'm paying attention to Buck's Twitter. Even the dudes with the Janus freaking avatars are like, bro, why doesn't this guy ever set a solid screen? Why is this guy insistent upon doing this thing one very rigid way? I think if Janice is being the best version of himself, he's catching it on the move and putting defenses in bad position. The problem is he's never gotten those reps.

And like, how does he know what to adjust to if he's never doing the job in the first place? And so I think Janice has to have a come to Jesus moment and realize like, yo, we have to play differently to unlock our potential. I actually just want to know, was if you feel any guilt for shaming the bucks into trading Drew Holiday after he got embarrassed by Jimmy Butler. Well, I think it's time probably to revisit that trade there because on the one hand, I get the theory and maybe they haven't done enough with Damon House to make it work.

on the other hand like i look at for instance the lakers and god forbid we're already at this point like describing the lakers as a model team building franchise but like they did the the two guys and then they filled with depth and i think you're seeing not only with the lakers but across the mbacres as we just talked about teams having regular season success with depth and i do wonder like should they have actually gone the opposite way if you're going to trade drew actually get more players around yannis in order to make yannis the big focal point and then just hope for middle to be the number two, as opposed to reach for Dame, because I think the biggest issue is just the fact that they don't have a lot of credible NBA players at this point. It's just like they have four

really good guys, win healthy, and like Trent will come and go, make shots. They'll find another shooter to compliment them. I just look around and it's just a lot of retreads who were good in 2019. And I think it was pretty telling when they played the Celtics pretty well for most of that game. When the game flipped, it was like Peyton Pritchard just hitting every goddamn shot. It was Jordan Walsh even giving them a live body and activity, they just don't have a lot of young energy who could stay on the floor or frankly, Doc is trusting enough to keep on the floor. That's the thing. And this is where player development is always such a huge part of the equation. And I think the more we get into this space of like depth being the new big advantage

in the NBA, which I agree, that's the way it looks right now. Depth is also super fucking expensive. Like there's not one $60 million player, but all of a sudden you have four $20 million players. And your salary sheet is blowing up all the same. And the way you get around it is you have one guy on your team who's making like $10 million, $12 million. Because you brought him in, you either drafted him, cultivated his career, put him in a place to succeed, or someone like Ruri Hachamur, who you brought in from another organization and put them into a role that suits them a little bit better. And everything fits a little, their game just kind of makes different sense in a different context. The bucks have done none of that stuff. the big moves that they've made are trade for an established all-N-Ba player

and shoehorn him into, as we said, a role in a team that is trying to redefine itself, that is trying to find new identity, and ultimately, I think, failed in doing that so far. But otherwise, there are no developmental success stories within the younger ranks of the bucks or even like the middle-aged in NBA terms, ranks of the bucks. Yeah, everybody can second-guess the trade. And, I mean, you know, that's your right to do so. but one, we got to go back to the context that the trade happened under.

These people are scared. Janice isn't going to resign for his second extension again. They just got pants by the heat in like five games, okay? Five games in the first freaking round in which for the like fourth, yo, going back to 2019

when they lost to Toronto, went up to O. From the last four games onward, their offense has been an embarrassment in the playoffs. Every single playoffs. And so management said, let's do something different. Also, Janice was not going to be like, yeah, let's trade Drew Holiday for depth. That was not a reality.

That's like, like it's insane to suggest that this is what they should have or could have done. No, they had to get a difference-making player, particularly on offense, where they were just horrible, several post seasons in a row. I'm telling you guys, when they won the championship, they were not a good offense at all in the playoffs.

And so to act like, yo, I'm not saying you're doing this, but like, oh, maybe we could have traded Drew for like pieces. That was not an option. They had to get an impact player. And now they have to treat impact player as such and like integrate everybody into a cohesive thing. Yeah, if you're going to ding Janus, I think it's not because he isn't playing like a superstar.

It's that he isn't acting like a superstar off the court. Like he he probably is like instilling his will on the personnel decisions a little too hard. And like I was getting a little sick of like everything, especially this offseason where he's making quite comments about like, oh, maybe everyone will get traded if this doesn't work. Like he's going a little step too far when for so long he was like kind of the model in that regard where he was just like kind of just went about his business, didn't indulge with. that stuff. And almost like all of a sudden he had like a wild summer and he just shows up looking like wads right now and is like let's get fucking wild.

I think we project a humility and an egoseness onto Janus that doesn't freaking exist. I think that's probably true. I saw a clip this summer right where he's talking about, tell me a player

they ever invented a wall defense for. Four guys in the paint for one player. Who else did that? I'm I'm like, wow, like, Janice is really showing you what's important to him. Like, it's that stuff. And I don't think he's like, and just to be clear, I don't think he's like an egotomaniac or anything like that. I just think he's just like an athlete.

He's a pretty typical athlete who believes in himself and wants to win so badly that he's going to force people around him to cater to what he wants. So we projected humility onto him. I'm not afraid to say it. That's a Wosney-Lambriq quote. Justin and I do not stand beside that. I'm not afraid to say it. I think he has a kind of humility, but.

who are a greater pointer, as a competitor, as an athlete, that just, like, does not really exist. Those pull-up two pointers are from a humble human being. Somebody who shoots in the teens on pull-up, long twos, taking those with regularity, that's humility. I, like, I am of the opinion that to be a great defensive player requires a great deal of humility. Like, being a big in the NBA period and successful requires a great deal of humility.

Putting in the work on his body and his game to begin with requires a level of humility. Now, when you reach the mountain top, that humility can turn into something else. And it can spiral out of control, it can get away from you. I don't think any of us see, as Justin said, like Janus is some kind of ego maniac, but he is a superstar and ego plays a part when you operate in that kind of space. And to be clear about his influence and pulling of the levers or at least influence on which levers are pulled, I'm not even saying or suggesting that he's pointing a guides

and saying, we need to move him, we need to get him, we need to do all that. I think what's kind of insidious about superstardom sometimes is just like, how non-verbal it is and non-confrontational it is and how passive-aggressive it can be. And Janus, as we've seen, can be quite passive-aggressive in the way he operates around this stuff. And let's be clear, Dame isn't entirely blameless here. I know to a certain extent, you get what you pay for to a certain extent. Well, he's not shooting particularly well this year. And he just doesn't play defense.

You know what I mean? It's just like if the defense is a problem and like you need the defense to be good and you build your identity around defense, like, Dame's not going to contribute to that. Yeah. So it's even poor. for, I think, for what he is, but I think overall, we agree. But the NBA is back in Fandul. America's number one sports book wants you to catch all the action,

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Gambling problem, call 1-800 gambler or visit RG-Help.com. Should we now flip to another team that has absolutely no problems and is perfect in every way? Yeah, please. I think we need to talk about the Chicago Bulls, who are now three and two, blazing up the standings. I love the tweet that was circulating yesterday when someone's like, oh, what is it, 2009, because the standings are like calves, bulls, Celtics, Magic, Knicks, Heat. And so it's just like, oh, yeah, we're back, baby.

And so are the Bulls who somehow find themselves right now as the 28th offense in the NBA, which I have to say I was pretty startled by... Who could have predicted that? You build a team around Josh Giddy. How are you not just blazing people on offense? But here's the thing. The process when you watch the games is so good. Like there's such a logic to what they're doing

and like the personnel just fit that. How well can they ultimately play on offense with that same personnel? Who says? But like the ball moves. Like, God damn. They're just quick hitters. They're playing with pace. They're running around.

Like, it's flowing. And they're just jamming threes up there. And, like, if we're talking about, like, good process, like, those are all three things that you really need, especially maybe if the talent isn't a superstar level. And here's the biggest stat, I think, and out of all of them. Nicola Vucevich's AK, EKG is actually showing blips on it because he is live. He is back from the debt, my friend. 46% from three.

Let's go. You got our guy corded up. You're tracking his heart rate? He looks like an NBA player again. I thought he was just completely washed. But like all of a sudden, the ball is swinging four passes. Then he's attacking a close off, a close out, just like on a live dribble. I'm like, what the fuck is going on here, Vouch?

Yeah. And to put it in context, this is a guy who got outplayed by Andre Drummond for most of last season within the Bulls rotation. Just like did not look like he wanted to be there or wanted to participate. And I will say this, the Bulls are not a good officer. They will not be a good offense overall. But the ball movement is good. And I think the fight is impressive. Like they've made these two huge comebacks already for wins.

And this was something that was honestly true of them last season is they were a team that fought more than they had any right to fight, more than they had any reason to fight to win these games. And there is something in this roster and the complexion of role players involved. We're like, these guys do give a shit. And they do put in that effort. And I think you can even see it starting to turn with guys like Zach Levine. a little bit who you know you may not necessarily put in that category but you put him out there with Josh Giddy and all of a sudden he's making backdoor cuts again it's like parts of these guys' games are awakening to a play style that makes a little bit more sense to them that said I think

they do work a little bit better when things are a little less confusing when you have Levine and Giddy and Kobe White all out there at the same time there's a little bit of that like I don't quite know what to do with all of us out there together and that that could be an issue that needs to be ironed out over the course of the season. But overall, it's hard to be mad about where the Bulls are at this stage in the season. Even if it's a third place in the Eastern Conference with a negative point differential, welcome to the east. But they've been pulling it off.

You got to give it to him. I think Vucci Maine is the best example of what's happening because he's a veteran on a team that nobody thinks is going to accomplish anything important. And he's giving it the good old college chart. like the speed with which he's getting off the ball. And like he's always been a super reluctant shooter, right? Like he's a big man whose last name, you know, ends in itch. So we assume that he can shoot threes.

But he's always been like hesitant to take a bunch of them, even if he's always had the mid-range and stuff like that. So this year, him being more aggressive that way. Like it forces defenses to have to play you differently. And it also, it means. makes his minutes make more sense. Like, he's never going to be anybody's idea of some bruising, rim-protecting big.

But if you're going to be out there, at least be helping us out and, you know, giving people oxygen on offense, right? Like, if you're not going to be a traditional wing-protecting big, we need you to contribute in those kinds of ways on the periphery. And he's actually doing that to start the season. So, like, that's what I think is happening. It's, you know what, man, I know these guys get

paid tens of millions of dollars to play a child's game, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But like a guy at the point of his career that Vooch is in to be, you know, playing this hard and switching it up and not doing the things that he's used to doing his whole career, the things that he got paid to do his whole career, that's really refreshing. I just think he makes sense in what they have going here. Like, you see the original. If he continues to make three. You are way too happy about the Bulls right now.

It's insane. Yeah, he probably will. He probably won't continue to shoot the way he is. Like Josh Giddy probably won't as well. But it's just like you could definitely see the original construction of the team like coming to bear yet again when they have enough free flowing ball movers. And so like, yeah, I do think maybe this will hit a limit. Maybe they sink into maybe like middle of the road on both ends because one of the things that I'm wondering is like where the defense is like seventh in the league right now. and I'm honestly a little perplexed by that because when they were at their best,

they were also turning it over in order to spark the transition. Caruso and Lonza are so critical to that. And they don't seem like they have those guys. If anything, they're 29th and defensive turnover percentage of what they're turning over the other team. And so I don't see that contributing to the offense. And so if anything, I expect the ratings to flip here where I think they're going to be a better offense, but I actually think they're going to be a pretty poor defense,

especially with Booch pains me to say this. is just back there on the back line trying to protect the rim. I think they're going to be a more aesthetically pleasing offense in some ways, but I don't think they're going to be good. And I ultimately think they're going to be a somewhat middling defense. But we've said that before. I don't know what it is about the Bulls, but they pull off more of these improbable, like,

randomly ninth or tenth and defensive rating kind of seasons that basically any other team in the league. Something is going on in the Chicago River. I don't know what it is. Maybe the Dave Matthews band is related. Maybe not. But it's weird. consistently. I will say for all of the good vibes,

Lonzo already hurt. Don't feel great about that situation. It's a hand. It's a hand. It's, you know, unrelated, but we, I think we're all excited to see him fully integrated in the rotation again and like starting to inch forward in his career healthier and happier hopefully once he gets back. I remain perpetually out on Pat Williams. I'm just like, I'm out. He's been good. He's been fine. He made a three last night and the announcers. Dan there had a baby. it was insane. It's the most important shot of his entire career. It's insane. Oh, come on. That's mean.

I don't think it is. I think you're right, though. The depth gets pretty shaky pretty quickly. Like, Jailen Smith wasn't out there and already like Adama Sonogo. Like, I love that guy, but like he should not be a backup center in the NBA right now. Like, like, Bezellis is playing like pretty solid rotational minutes. Like Tori Craig is out there. You're right.

It gets pretty shaky pretty quickly. and when what we're saying about the front starters are just like they're not superstar quality. It's more about like the flow of the offense and everything put together. And so that point is taken. I do think though it was like a pretty interesting in stark contrast to what the magic we're doing to them like against them in that game where it's like there was just movement and flow with the Bulls. But when Franz went out as he did the past two games, you saw things kind of gunk up for the magic

because they just don't have a lot of creation outside of what Polo is. doing. Paul has been absolutely electric, but he needs that second guy. Whereas like, it feels like there's a institutional thing happening with Chicago that I think could lead to more regular season results than we would think. They probably puts them in the Atlanta Hawks territory, which means they're going to lose all their players in like a couple days. And we'll talk about them as one of the worst teams in the league in a couple days. But like, I think for now, like, I like, I like what I'm seeing. I like what I'm seeing, but it's resulting in the like the 25th ranked offense again. Like I, it's cool. It's cool. We like it. We like watching.

it. I'm enjoying watching the Bulls more than I expected to. All of the like sound and fury signifying anything remains to be seen. I'm very skeptical. We have five games into the season, guys. We have to keep adding that caveat. That's true. Yeah. This is incredibly, but when we fly Rob out to Chicago to cover a intense playing game, probably only one because they'll be playing in the lower one. We'll talk about this again. We'll revisit this. You think I'm to be mad about that? Like my fucking kingdom for a Chicago dog right now. We need to talk about the state of accessible hot dogs in this

country. It's deplorable. That's right. You used to live in Chicago. What did they do there? So let me let me clarify. For the Chicagoans, I lived in the Chicago suburbs. They will be very pointed to tell you that is not actually Chicago. They'll get on your ass for that. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. That's why you can't appreciate greatness. I have a lot of love for the greater Chicago area. Just not always love for the performance of their basketball team, which as their own broadcast has pointed out, very Sisypian over the course of their recent history. That's right. All right. Why don't we go to their Midwestern friends here? What road are we taken to get from Chicago to Indiana, Rob? Do you know? I can't even remember which highway it is, but let me tell you, it's a tough drive. Gary, Indiana. Cienic. It's tough. It's tough.

Wow. It's not what you want. Respect in the home of the Jackson's. That's crazy. I heard Gary was a bustling industry town back in the day. It may have been. Not now. It did not seem. It's one of the biggest cities around the rivers. I can't say it's a lot of times.

The industrialization was not friendly to the Midwest, guys. Was not. Okay. Well, this season hasn't been too friendly to our friend Tyrese Halliburton, who I got to say, doesn't look good out there. The Pacers are two and three. Now, this is a weird timing to talk about them

because they did just come off of beating the Celtics in overtime last night. And so that was heartening to see Seyakum played really well. But I don't know, man. Halliburton, I think I was worried about coming into the season. Worried you would say. You know, I didn't want to say it outright because I wanted to be a little bit more measured

about my take here. But I did say to our friends here the other day at Spotify. by HQ that he was on fraud watch. Might have put a little too much mustard on that one. But I have to say, like, I am a little perplexed by how he got here. Because here's the thing. I think Halliburne is a very elite conductor of good offense. I think he's always going to be that.

He's like the perfect ball mover and teammate you want on your side, right? He's just like, he's making things happening. He's a willing passer. He has been a good three-point shooter in the past. Unfortunately, the three-point shot hasn't been there this season. And then from there, you're starting to see the seams of his lack of ability, frankly, to get past the three-point line. It just seems like the lack of a tight handle that just like almost like shaken confidence. And I'm curious where you guys think this might come from, like whether it's the injury from last year, whether it's the attention from defense, whether it's being the playoffs and not having just like a Sterling playoff debut.

It just seems like he's off, and I can't really place it because I do think highly of him. I think he's probably going to be a regular all-star. But if we're talking like superstar engine of a top-level offense, engine of like an Eastern Conference finalist year after year after year, like I think you need to do more than just like be the conductor of good offense. I think you need to be the source of it. Yeah, there's like a self-consciousness to his game that I think is counterproductive to what he tries to do. And if anything, this is where the being a good teammate and moving the ball and the momentum he's, plays with can sometimes work against him because I actually think he can get inside the three point line but he knows he wants to hunt the three and he feels most comfortable hunting the three and he

clearly does not feel super comfortable getting into the floater range or getting into the basket or doing some of what T.J. McConnell does where you kind of like gnash through and turn the defense inside out. I think if Tyreys Halliburn did more of that stuff, it would be really good for him and really good for the Pacer's offense, but it would require him holding onto the ball more than he ultimately wants to. And so that's where you feel this tension with. him where he's the kind of star who wants to get other people involved and keep it moving and keep get the flow

and then when the game bogs down into those one-on-one possessions the only pacer who can really do anything is Pascal Seaccom because that's not that's not howled Burton's game it's not what he wants to do yeah I think this one-on-one scoring thing was always the question mark around Tyrese

in Sacramento everybody recognized that this guy was at talent and was a really good player but you know to be thrust into franchise altering type of status, you have to be a guy that can get your own bucket.

And I think you'll always be a great pick and role player. But what teams realize, like, all you want to do is pass on your drives. It just changes the entire equation. And defenses just aren't playing you honestly. They're daring you to try to score on your drives.

And obviously, he's never been a foul getter, never been somebody that's been able to draw fouls. And I think, and again, like, I'm starting to get to where, like, his first three months of last season are becoming, like, you know, Eli Manning's playoff runs in the Super Bowl and those Super Bowls where he's just trash

every other time. But, like, for that, for those two playoff runs, he was just, you know, incredible. That's what it's starting to feel like with Hallie to start last season. But in those games, again, And one, defenses weren't so attuned to the fact that he does not want to try to score until he absolutely means to, which tended to be at the end of games last year.

So defenses understand what he's trying to do. But two, like, he had a floater going. Like, I don't know how many times I watched this guy kiss a floater off the glass last year when he was right. This year, that just doesn't happen. He doesn't get downhill. He doesn't get to that floater game. God forbid he'd get all the way to the cup and try to draw some kind. or that's not happening.

And his shot, like, he doesn't have a quick release. It's a very slow release. He needs space to get it off. And he can't be harried when he's doing it. And so I think all of those things are showing themselves. And this is when players get to be at a crossroad. I think of, like, somebody like LaMello Ball who before the season is like, okay, we get it.

You have the nice passing ability. You can make a three off a pick and roll when guys, you know, step back on you, but can you score for yourself when needed to? He's kind of showing that he can right now. It helps to be six foot seven apparently. Halliburton is not showing that at the moment. And, you know, it's kind of disappointing for me. Yeah.

If you're going to be concerned is that the blood is now in the water. People have a book on him. Yep. And they kind of know his tendencies. And it's kind of on him to overcome that and find new wrinkles to get around that. I'd noticed when they played the magic, who, let's just say outright, swarming defense, Suggs is a goddamn meaning out there. Like, it's hard to play against the magic.

But it seemed like they would trap him really high up on the court because they knew that Halliburton, if anything, doesn't go forward. He floats backward in order to try to find other guys. And if you crowd him, he can't find those other guys because he's like someone in space just floating backwards. And so he was creating a lot of. of mistakes for himself, frankly, by, like, trying to, like, play how he usually does, which is to find space. Like, he almost naturally tries to float towards space. And in this case,

it's working against him. And so, I don't know. There's, like, there was also another play where, like, he saw a big hedge up against him. And he kind of just, like, hot potatoed it to Seacum in the corner. And Seacum gave him what seemed like a pretty clear, like, what are you doing? And just fired it right back out him. It just seems like he's, a little on tilt at this point because the things that he was so successful at are starting to get hit by a wall and it's up to him to like maybe problem solve

the next phase of what he's going to be. Yeah, the book is out on how he plays. The book is out on how the Pacers play. I think factoring into this too is the idea that teams are locked in on how fast the Pacers want to get up and down the floor. And in particular, the teams that can actually attack the offensive glass themselves

are really putting the Pacers at a disadvantage. Indiana is already a pretty poor rebounding team. They're clearly looking to secure it and get out going as fast as they can. And if you can put any pressure on them in that regard, they kind of crumble a little bit right now. And so they need to find a little bit more sort of strategic resolve around those sorts of things, like find ways to be a better rebounding team while still getting out in semi-transition. They are.

They are. But there are small guys who can rebound. And there are small guys on this team who can be competitive rebounders, you know, above and beyond where they are. Tyrese Halliborne is not one of them, but Andrew Nempard could be. Aaron Neesmith can be. Like those are guys who can fight for boards

among the trees and pull down some important, like, loose balls. The issue is like, how comfortable are you in semi-transition situations where you don't have all, everything that a full on fast break would afford you? Like last year it was a parade to the rim because they were running so much. Now they're having to, they're having to like navigate a lot more, maneuver a lot more, work around a couple of defense. offenders and not just get wide open space in front of them. And I wouldn't say they've acclimated themselves well to that part of this process,

but they have the talent to do it if they can sort of settle in here. Yeah, it just seems like the pacers are going to live and die by not only playing at pace, but in like forcing their pace onto the opponent. And it just seems like the first couple of games and went the opposite way where they got jarred and weren't able to play as up and down. I don't want to take the Celtics one like away from them, but it isn't surprising that the Celtics who have a pretty terrible transition defense, like the Pacers were able to run on them and have success and look like the team that

they were. And so, like, to a certain extent, I'm still a little worried about like, like, what they're going to be able to do in order to solve that. Like, right now, they're 22nd on offense. And like, this is not a team that can be even like beyond top 10 in offense. And Halliburton's a big part of that. I have liked them putting Nemhart on the ball and getting Tyree's off it is a way to like throw a little bit of a wrinkle in there. I'm actually pretty excited about what they could do with the Nemhart Halliburton backcourt because there's just like a lot of, of synergy there and a lot of different wrinkles you could throw in there. But again, like, Hal Burton's best value was with the ball in his hand, being able to spread it out and get guys

involved because he just gets the flow going in ways like, if you guys do. And it's honestly a little disappointing and sad because he's such a fun player to watch. And it just seems like the joy that sparks whatever's going on in Indiana is right now a little dampened. And it's not surprising they're struggling as a result of that. So before you were saying fraud watch, now you're saying fraud watch, but with a frowny face because you're also just like generally feeling bad for them. No, it's not fraud watch anymore. It's like, I'm sad.

It's not the full frowny. It's the one with like the half like smirk downward. Yeah. You know? Well, true to your overall look today. It's a very Kyle Kuzma expression to have if we're being honest. That's true. I can't believe you didn't get this this entire time.

It was hard without the sleeves. You're just a guy in a white beanie and a pink sweater. Steve's also aren't that long. No, no. As soon as you lift up the hands, it's very clear what you're going for. I apologize. I should have been more locked in on that.

This is actually a woman's sweater dress. You had to go full sweater dress for it? I bought three different options. And the problem is those didn't have the length on the hands. They were just, they were wider if you went to like a men's 4X. It's just wide. You're right.

You're right. It's a great call. Gotcha. Oh my goodness. I have to say, if you came onto this pod today, dressed not as Kyle Kuzma and the pink sweater, but as Malify Leons, I think I would have recognized you

because I would say that right there is an NBA player who just got signed by the Thunder for the entire season. Let's go. How excited are you? I'm thrilled. This is the best news I could possibly get today. Back from the dead on Halloween. We're so alive.

I get the best thing for us also is I'm going to be at their next game on Friday, which means I get to see him. in person. I'll like maybe get your autograph or what do you want? I just want you to do of like a full video of his warm up routine and just post it straight to the ringer NBA social because everyone out there needs to know. They need to know

what's going on with Malify. I just love the idea of Varyer becoming the Frank Isola of Portland. I just love that. We are out there. All right. Why don't we wrap it up there? Happy Halloween.

Everyone. Enjoy the trick-or-treating. Rob, have fun watching like something on the criterion collection tonight. You know I will. Whatever we do. Thank you to Isaiah Blakely on production. Thank you to Ben Cruz. We'll be back on Monday. As usual, we'll see you then.

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