The Ringer NBA Show - Are the Knicks and Kings Legit? | Real Ones

Episode Date: March 6, 2023

Raja and Logan open the show with reactions to the Suns-Mavericks game (02:00) before pivoting to the Knicks and their success this season (12:00). Then, the guys dive into the Sacramento Kings and what to expect from them in the postseason (24:00). Later, they take a break from talking hoops and give their thoughts on the final season of ‘Snowfall’ (52:00). Hosts: Logan Murdock and Raja Bell Producer: Jonathan Kermah Production Assistant: Kai Grady Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I'm Yossi Salick, and I'm the host of Bansplain, a show where we explain cult bands and iconic artists by going deep into their histories and discographies. We're back with a brand new season at our brand new home, the Ringer podcast network, tackling a whole new batch of artists, from Grunge Gods to Power Pop pioneers to new metal legends and many, many more. Listen to new episodes every Thursday, only on Spotify. What's popping? Real ones. Rah, Rha, Rowe there, Lolo here. How you doing, Rai? How was your weekend, bud?

Oh, it was good. It was good. Do you say lo-low? Did I pick the low-low? Rob-R-R-R-L-Lo-low. You got Ron Molo. Good weekend, man. Good weekend.

A lot of 7-07 and then my young fellow was all about Zenbell this weekend. He had 7-07 and basketball on Saturday and then just basketball on Sunday. So it was a good weekend on the fields and in the gym. Mm-hmm. Okay. Yeah, a lot of high-level fifth grade work going on. Are you impressed or did you come away from this? weekend very upset because you know how you're a wild card on how you feel about weekends in the gym

some days you're excited about where basketball is going other days which we see on this pod you just you just want to give up on on yeah mixed them things this weekend there okay mixed emotions there are some really bad product out there but there were some teams that were that were you know at a young age working the way you're supposed to work moving a ball and you know cutting and making the extra pass so someone gets a great shot, like, mixed emotions. Sounds like the Phoenix Sun's offense on Sunday. Dude.

Love, low. Dude. Well done. Thanks, bud. I know we would talk about the Suns, but, Deb, we go keep talking about the Suns. This is one of those podcasts, ladies and gentlemen, where we're just talking,

and we're going to figure it out as we go. But first thing I want to talk about is, I want to talk about the Phoenix Suns, and Mavericks game because we talked last week just about our first impressions of the Sons and who they were playing, the Charlotte Hornets really didn't give a great indication of what they could be. I think this last game against the Mavericks on Sunday was a way better indication of how good this team can be.

And honestly, it solidified all the thoughts that I had on them. And I really, I think, I'm really high on the suns, Roger. I'm really high on what they can do. Specifically just like down the stretch. I think that there was, you could tell a lot about a lot of teams when they can get the types of shots that they get down the stretch. And I think that even while, like, Luca had a chance to get to tie the game at the end, they had, the Mavericks had to work too hard to get shots. And then I saw the Sons whenever they play, they have three dudes. that can get it that you trust in big moments.

And Chris Paul and Kevin Durant and Devin Booker, and all three of those guys shine in getting easy shots down the stretch. I really like what I'm seeing out of the suns. And I think that that Sunday game really solidified it. This was the good part of Sunday basketball that I was really impressed. I was really impressed with what I saw. Yeah, that was an interesting game because both of those teams are are kind of trying to figure out exactly who they are after these trades

have been made, you know what I mean? And I also, I mean, obviously having, I agree with you in that Phoenix is a problem down the stretch in terms of shot creation. It's not really about whether you can make a shot sometimes down the stretch. It's about whether you can create it. Push comes to shove. Like we can't get into offense or there's not a set we can run. Like, can I give you the,

the ball and can you create a shot, whether it's, you know, for you or for someone else, but if push comes to shove, can you create one? Like, you saw the one with like 11 seconds on the clock where Katie, Tim Hardaway Jr. did a good job of denying him all the way out to damn half court. And, you know, you just, he's 611, you throw the ball up to his hand and he takes three dribbles. He's at the left elbow and he's just going up over two people and knocking that down. Like, you can't guard that. So those luxuries having people that can do that are a problem for teams to defend. I think both of those teams are going to have to figure out what else can help. While those three are brilliant offensively, and you had like 9, 9,

and 12 in terms of supplemental scoring. But is there another guy, right, that can get us, you know, that 15 to 17? Like if something were to go wrong, it's not an it's not an absolute. necessity, but it's a good luxury to have. Another dude who that we can figure out how he can produce in this offense. Some of that organically goes away when you've got three guys that are shooting the volume of shots that they're shooting. But you want to look for that on both of those teams. Tim Hardaway would be the most likely candidate, I guess.

You know, maybe Christian Wood, Tim Hardaway, like another guy on that team that can get you the buckets for the sons. It'll be interesting. Defensively, though, I think both of those teams, you know, we have to have to figure some things out. Now there's a prolific offense going on. I mean, they hung up, what's that, 256 points, you know,

combined. Like, that's a big number. But there's going to be some things that both of those teams have to figure out from a perimeter defensive perspective as you as you get deeper into the playoffs and you're trying to win a championship. And I think that's only fair. What are like a couple of teams that fit that mold that you speak of that probably

can expose in the, Western Conference and the Eastern Conference, what are, like, when you look at the Mavericks and you look at the Sons, what are a few teams that you're like, oh, they have the personnel that can expose everything that you describe. I'm thinking about the, as I'm talking, I'm thinking about a team like the Bucks who are just so heavy in the front line, right? With Bobby Portis and Janus and, and the Lopez twin right there, right? So like, who are the teams that you, that fit this mold to, that can expose? them and the sons are like, well, fuck, man. We're in a bit of a pickle. Yeah, well, the bucks, I mean, the bucks for sure. They pose that problem for everyone in the league right now, though. I mean, Philly came back. It was a great game.

Jay's Harden was doing James Hardin-esque things, you know, coming down. I think they were down 18. Bro, there were a few logo shots from James Hardin, and I'm like, yo, yo, yo, relax. Straight up. Yeah, he was in his bag, but my point is, like, Philly came back and won the game, but they were even, you know, given Philly that work for a while. They posed the problem for every team in the NBA.

They're just that big. You got Janus and they shoot it as well as they do. So certainly them. And then on the flip side of that, I say a team like maybe Memphis with as many like perimeter weapons as they have and you're going to have to guard the shit out of them out there. Like that's on the other end of the spectrum,

maybe not the size, but the just ability for a lot of dudes out there with the ball to get a bucket and be able to create and you've got to have answers defensively for that. So those will just be too off the top. Well, it's interesting. You brought up another, like a good point because I keep thinking about, you know, when I was watching the game, I was watching like a lot of Sunday basketball. I saw the, you know, Lakers Warriors and I watched, you know, a little bit of Buck Sixers

and this just the end of Suns Mavs. But every game that I'm thinking about during this part of the season, it's, you know, interesting where we're at, where we're out of the trade deadline. It seems like a reset for a lot of teams that are contending, especially ones that just right after the trade deadline, where they're just trying to figure out what this new team looks like. The Mavs and the Sons are a great example of that. And then I see, you see kind of curious games, right? Like you see, I wouldn't say, curious in this regard, but just interesting, where you see the Knicks go into the Boston Garden and win, right?

and then you see the Sixers go in and win in Milwaukee after just everything that went on in that game. How do you gauge success during this time where it's not necessarily the dog days, but we're trying to figure out this new normal with these teams. And also, anytime you have a break in a season, you kind of got to get your legs back under you and kind of figure things out. So as a result, there are a lot of curious scores and a lot of curious games. How do you kind of decipher success from all of these types of games? And what are you looking to see during this part of the season?

Well, that's it. There's a lot of meat on the bone with that question. Trying to figure out, you know, exactly what is a team has showed you basically who they are DNA-wise right now. Now, the two teams that had just made major, like, game-shifting moves would be Mavs. and Phoenix, right? So those teams would be the ones that I would look at and say, hey, give me a minute to really make a decision on what that looks like. There's going to be a longer period of trying to figure this out on the fly

because of the magnitude of the pieces that were either extracted or brought in from the equation. Those other teams, I think, you know, you might come out of the gates slow around the break maybe and you might be dragging a little bit, but for the most part, they are who they are. They don't usually just fall off of a cliff after the All-Star break or become this juggernaut of a team after the All-Star break.

You know what I mean? Like, they might come out a little slow or even a little hot, but you normally get back to the mean of who they've been for this sample size that you've had for, what, two-thirds of the season now. I got a couple. I'd be remiss if I didn't put Denver in the mix of teams that you said that you asked me about. Yeah, sure.

Last question, like Denver is one of those teams. And I want to touch on this. Clippers are one of those teams as well. Just trying to figure them whatever a new normal is out. And they're kind of struggling with that. But I think the Clippers as well. The clips would be in that. Denver would be in the category of teams.

I think they could give like those teams problems from a defensive perspective because they have things like Yokic is a problem. And they've got perimeter pieces that can get you buckets. Like those are, I mean, that's why they're number one right in the West. Right. But the Knicks. See, the Knicks are interested in me, right? because the Knicks are one of those teams that

that is playing really, really good basketball. You're talking about nine in a row, just beat the Celtics. They've got a lot of pieces that on any given night can produce for them. Julius Randall, I watched the game the other night against the heat where he just went berserk and hit the game winner to beat them.

Like, they're a fun team to watch. My question with the Knicks is, they are in the sweet spot of like a Tom Tibido team of of of of of you remember at least this is the way I see it all those teams that he coached in with the bulls that were really really good you know they they had a bunch of guys that fit the mold of what he wanted to do like in terms of just gritty tough like it might not always be pretty but they defend they figure it out

And the question was always, like, did they have the guy? They did when they had D. Rose a little bit. But like some of those other teams didn't have D. Rose. And they were still really viable teams, but they didn't have the firepower to get over to home to win the whole thing. You know? And so it'll be interesting to see if this is the team that he, you know, did he go back to the drawing board those years that he was out and figure some things out in a way that's going to allow this team that is really good. I mean, they're 11th in the league, I think, in terms of defensive efficiency. and their top 10 in terms of offensive efficiency,

like they're really close to being one of those teams that you would say has a viable shot to win it. And yet I still feel like, I still feel like they're on the outside looking in just a little bit. Yeah. Does that make sense? No, it does make sense, man. It feels like a lot of,

so whenever I think of Tom Tibdo, I think about that 2010-2011 Bulls team, which is probably like peak Tom Tibido, right, where you have, the, I mean, say what you want about D. Rose right now is a player, but in 2010, he was a top five player in the league. Clearly, he won an MVP, right? So that was the perfect storm of just what you would want out of a Tibido team, a very tough, hard-nosed team with a guy that is a superstar that can get you buckets at a moment's notice, right? Right. Now it's a bit more by committee, right? And he still,

he has a really good player in Julius Randall, but Julius Randall isn't at least in league circles considered a top 10 player. Now, he's dope, and he will put some fear in you when he plays probably in the regular season, but in the postseason, I just see the Knicks as a really,

really hard-nosed team that can give you problems. And for some teams, that's great, right? Like, that'll be great year-in and year out. This is just a tough, hard-nosed team that ceiling is probably the second round. And that's what I see when I see the Knicks, right? Like the Knicks are a team in the regular season because here's one other thing.

When you've played in the regular season, you'll win a lot of games just by playing hard. Like, his team's your design. Yes, they will. And I know that I know like all my real ones out there will be like, oh, duh, Logan. Like, of course you win games playing hard. But like what I mean is on the second night

of a back-to-back for a really great team, sometimes they just don't have it, right? And if another team like the Knicks, who is a really good team or a really scrappy team, is diving for loose balls on a Tuesday in January, like they're going to win the game. It's going to happen. And you're going to see these types of games

where they beat the Celtics, or maybe they beat the Bucks on the road, and you're like, oh, man, what should I be thinking about with the Knicks? But then when you go into the playoffs and a team is locked in on the team, and all they're doing is scouting. the other team's best player and it's possession by possession. I just don't necessarily trust the Knicks beyond that.

And I think that just says that speaks to a lot of the qualities that you're talking about with a Tom Tibido coach team. Yeah, it's hard nose, but they need a star. The Knicks need a genuine star that can bring them over the top and one of those types of guys. That's what they need.

Yeah, I agree with just about everything you said there. Tom Tippettos teams are are coached in a way that they maximize more than anyone else the ability to beat teams by playing hard throughout the course of an NBA season. Like every team's capable of doing it, but not everybody

maximizes his teams are going to get those games. They're getting them. They get them in a way and at a percent that's higher than other teams in the league. Like he really operates great. I saw the Knicks last year. I saw the Knicks last year in Sacramento, bro, and it was just one of those hard, It looked like every time the Knicks come off the floor,

it looked like just got out of a war. They're just like, they're just sweating. There's blood everywhere and they just win games. And I love watching them play in a regular season match because they're going for every loose ball. They are punishing you. They're coming back. They always have the potential to come back from double-discid deficits

because they're going to play harder than you every single night. Right. Yes, for sure. Now, they've also got two players, maybe two and a half, but I think, you know, they're still growing a little bit. But in Jalen Brunson and Julius Randall, and I love this term, they talk about, they use it with quarterbacks a lot. Can he go above the axes and owes?

And that's essentially what I'm saying about like Kevin Duran, those dudes when I say, hey, if you need a bucket, you just give them the ball and get out the way. Can they take you with it? They have two that can look. They get you a bucket. They'll create it. You only got to have a play drawn up or anything like that. I don't think they are in the elite category of being able to do that,

but they are certainly way above average in terms of being able to do that. So you couple those two things together, and they're a problem in the playoffs. And they become an even bigger problem. They're a matchup. They're a matchup team. Like if they draw a team that is really good at drilling in on your tendencies and game planning to take those away.

And if they face a team like that, that's going to be more difficult and out for them. You know what I mean? Like they're a matchup team because don't get it twisted. It might not look like, you know, Kevin Durant or Devin Booker or Luca or Kyrie, but both of those cats will get you buckets. And some of them are tough, physical, bruising buckets.

And that style of play will take us to. whole, if you get into a lengthy series with those boys, like you're talking about watching a game and you can feel it from the stance. Like anyone who's been up and close front row, maybe to 10 rows deep in an NBA game where you can really feel the contact and you can hear it, those can be wars. And especially those New York type of Tom Tibido coach teams, those are physical battles. And if they can get their hands on you over the course of like six or seven, Like, they could be a problem. But I still think they're on the outside looking in in terms of championship conversation.

Sure. So I'm looking at the Eastern Conference standings right now. And the teams that are firmly in the four and five seeds right now are the Cleveland Cavaliers and the New York Knicks. Cleveland is now fourth and the Knicks are fifth. That looks like a really, really, really hard-nosed series, dog. one of those things that can go fully seven games in the first round. Probably like could be like the best first round series that we have on the slate, depending on how things shake out.

Is Cleveland the type of team because they have a Donovan Mitchell that has, that can go over the top? Like I'm just trying to, we're in March right now. So I'm trying to see like if we're here, we're still right here, who do you got in a series right there against those two type of teams that are both hard knows and they're definitely big.

You better bring your lunch. pale type teams. What do you think about that matchup that we have right now? Is Cleveland the team that can, because they have a guy like Donovan who is a really great score and also rises above the X's and O's,

what do you see in a matchup between those two teams right now at this very moment? I think that I would lean Cleveland in that series. Cleveland is better defensively. and I think they're really close offensively.

You've got to forgive me. I looked at all the stats before we came on, but they're somewhere in there. They're a top 10 team. But because of their D, they're like second or third in the league in terms of defensive efficiency. And like I told you,

I don't think necessarily Julius or Jalen are in the Donovan Mitchell conversation in terms of being able to be able to go above the X's and O's. Do you know what I mean? Like, is that fair? I mean, I think Donovan Mitchell is in a... I mean, I think that they're great players. I think that Jalen Brunson is a great player.

I think Julius Randall is a great player. But I do think that, like, you don't want a title if those two dudes are your, like, you're one and two. And that's no disrespect to either one of them. And it will remain to be seen whether or not, like, Spider can be your number one in that capacity, right? Like, he's still... Right. So, but I do think he is on a slightly higher level of being able to do that.

And because of their defensive prowess as a team, I think I'm going to take Cleveland. But, man, that's the type of series that I would be locked in. I would be tuned in to watch that. Like, that would be a fun one, or at least it should be on paper. But I would lean Cleveland because I think they're better defensively and you've got the best player. Do you – okay, so we talked about Jalen Brunson right now, right? And we've talked about the Mavs earlier in this episode. do you if you're the Dallas Mavericks and I have my thoughts but I want to hear your thoughts first

we all made the big there was a big deal being made about Jalen Brunson you know leaving the Mavs and the Mavs maybe not doing enough or you know the NICs just already having it in the bag but you on the Mavs side you're like why would you lose that asset that stupid do you think the Mavs have any of that remorse because I I don't necessarily do, but do you think that they, that they see Jalen Brunson flourishing in New York and just balling? Do you think they're like, damn, we could have had that on our team? Yes.

Yeah, I mean, I think it's human nature. You see him over there. Because theoretically, you could have had Jalen Brunson and Kyrie Irving, if you look at the, if you look at it, right? Like, I would imagine, I don't have the numbers in front of me, but if you sign this guy and you traded it, I don't know, maybe. It seems like in a world that you could have had them both.

I don't know what the relationships were behind closed doors. Like, I'm not saying that they were great vibes or bad vibes. So I don't know the ins and outs of that. But I think purely from a production standpoint, what he's been able to do this year if, well, I mean, I don't know. I think, like, I fell into the category of wondering last year whether or not that was a sustainable thing for him. You know what I mean? and he's been able to sustain it. So I think, you know, if I were there, I'd be like, damn, yes, I wish we would have kept that.

I can only speculate. But I think there's probably people in Dallas like, shit, man, that would have been nice to keep. Because him and Luca were cooking. Like, they had figured that out, you know? They had, they were already, you're waiting. You want Kyrie and Luca to figure it out. Not that Jalen is Kyrie, but Jalen and Luca had already kind of figured that out. Yeah.

Yeah. I don't know, man. I think, like, if you replace, at least on paper, and I don't know, I'm talking about basketball only. If you were to tell somebody, yo, we got rid of Jalen Brunson, but we did get Kyrie Irving. Someone, I think that, I think that would be, you know, people would be happy about that, right? Oh, yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean, if you're just trading one for the other, yeah, but if you're, you know, if you had one in building and you could, in theory, have had all three in some capacity. passing and one just was something that you kind of let get away, I would certainly watching what

it's doing now say, damn, that would have been cool. If we could have kept that, that would have been good. Yeah. Yeah. No, it's interesting going, going back into, just seeing what we're at right now. But I want to take a quick, really quick break real quick. And I want to talk about a coach and a team that we don't really talk about much on this program. And we're going to, We are back. Raja, I'm ready to talk about a team we don't really ever talk about unless it's in the negative news. But this is a team that has been honestly one of the darlings of the NBA so far. I got my cowbell back in the back right now.

We'll talk about the Sacramento Kings, all right, who are currently third in the Western Conference, have a coach by the name of Mike Brown, who honestly is the odds on favorite to win coach the year. I think that he's in that stage right now. Everyone is surprised by what they have been doing. They are 37 and 26. Roger, when I tell you the Sacramento Kings are one of the contenders in the Western Conference at this point. How the hell did it happen?

And what it, and, and, how the hell did it happen? happen. And what are your thoughts on it happening? First of all, I'm going to, I'm going to ask you to pump your break slightly. Because I don't know that they're necessarily a contender in the Western Conference right now. I mean, it's, I mean, on, look, record suggests. Oh, paper, yeah. Yeah. But I put them also in the category of team where I think they're probably on the outside of that conversation looking in. Having said that, it is not to marginalize anything

they've done. That, first of all, I'm happy for SACTO because when I came up, you had those Mavs, Sacramento series. They were phenomenal. You know, I actually got to play. Roger, Roger, I think I went to watch you play one the year you were in Dallas. I saw you play because, oh, I didn't, I mean, I saw you were on the court playing, so I did watch you play basketball. But it was the Christmas Day game in 2003 Mavs Kings. that was your only year in Dallas.

And I remember Balls got tickets last, like very last minute. And I was in the top of the top. But I saw, that was the first time I saw Dirk. That was the first time I saw you play live in person. And it was that season. It was that season. And that shit was rocking. Sacramento is one of the coolest.

Oh, now, mind you, I haven't been in the new building. So I can't speak to it. But best arena in the league. there you have it. Arco, while it wasn't constructed, you wouldn't walk in that thing and be like, hey man, this is a dope place to play basketball. It was one of the dopest places to play basketball.

Because when they were good, oh my God, there was not unequivocally, hear what I'm saying to you. There was not another environment like that. Not at all, bro. It was OKC before OKC. If like it laid the blueprint for whatever you think okayC was at its peak, it was also like Arco Arena, and we're, I promise we'll get to like current Kings at some point in this conversation. But Arco Arena, RIP was situated like out in the outskirts of Sacramento, like midway between the airport and the downtown area.

And it wasn't, and like, SAC wasn't as developed as it is now. So that, that basketball arena was just out the way. In the middle of nowhere. It was just sitting there. middle of nowhere. It was just chilling and it would get fucking rocking, bro. It would get, it was an older building.

The seats were a little wreck. I remember because, like, they would play, they would play state championship games in Sacramento when I was in high school. That's where they would play. But it would just get rocking. It was an older building.

There was just like metal where it wasn't supposed to be at. There were the fucking locker rooms were right underneath the, the stands. And it would, and it was like not in like a way you would think. Like literally you could see seats from the visitor's locker room. And it would be so cold and hot. It was, it was, it was the NBA of yesteryear and the greatness of NBA of yesterday year.

It was one of those last arenas like that. Absolutely. And there were some vibes of buildings to play in, man. There are some places that got electric and you, you know, they'd be on my Mount Rushmore places to play. But I'm telling you. when Sacramento was good in terms of in terms of crowd energy stuff that'll make your hair kind of stand up on your arms or your legs that place was unbelievable i remember being in there

for the playoff series i kind of knew the history of it coming into camp because a lot of what we were talking about in dallas in 2003 as we came into camp was what had happened in those series and they hadn't beat them uh the kings that is so like i kind of knew but i wasn't fully like you know, baptized in it. And so when we got into that series and I can't speak to the Christmas Day game, I don't think I probably was in the rotation. Like, it was hot and cold with Nelly. Like, I started half the games that season and then the rest of them, I didn't even play.

So, like, I might not have played in that, but I was playing in the playoffs. I remember getting into our locker room. You go through the tunnel. You make the quick left in the locker room's right there. And to your point, Logan, like, if you look up in that locker room, it's a low, it's a lower overhead. I just want to paint a picture a little bit more real quick. Arco Arena was one of those places where if you got in,

the buses were on the other side of where the locker room was. It was on the other side of the court from the visitor's locker room. So this is one of the rare arenas because there isn't that many hallways or whatever. Visiting players would have to walk across the court to get to their locker room. Yes. Because the arena was so small and there wasn't hallways like that. That's right. And the heckling, well, usually there weren't people in there when that first bus got there.

but if you got there late, like the heckling could start immediately as you're walking through, right? But so we get into the locker room and, you know, I had been in there. It was small and we had changed pregame and everything was fine. And you look up and you notice that the ceiling in there was kind of carved out like reverse risers. Right. So like it is gradually coming down like steps above your head. And so, you know, that was obviously the way the arena was constructed on top of you. And then I realized like, damn, you're starting.

sitting on, you know, these are, the fans are like right there. I couldn't hear a word Don Nelson said during halftime. He, he, he coached those games with, with those little, like, earplugs that, like, uh, people that deal with airplanes and stuff where? Because the crowd was so loud. So they, during the entire halftime speech, the people sitting in that section, like, they knew that they were right over the, the, the, they just stomped on the ground the entire. or time we were in our locker room, you couldn't hear anything. It was just, it was an incredible vibe. But anyway, I digress.

So, like, I'm very excited for the people in Sacramento to have a product back, especially when you put into context, into context where they've come from in recent history, right? Like, man, man, you talk about can't get rights. I mean, so full disclosure. So, like, when I, my first ever opportunity in the journalism game was when I was, I was, I was, I was living in the Bay Area and I was interning at this radio station in Sacramento. So it was during a lockout year. It was my first iteration of like just being around an NBA team on a regular basis, bro.

And when I tell you, it was dysfunctional. That is a gross understatement. You know my first year when I was like just around the team, it was when they were flirting with the idea of moving to Seattle and had a deal in place to move. to Seattle. And I remember there was this one time when... Uh-huh. Sorry.

I couldn't help. I couldn't help. I was sorry. My God. I don't even know what that was. What was that? We were trying to do a very, very, a very, very... Oh, my bad, bro.

I couldn't help me. I'm trying to do an introspective speech. I'm going to have Kerm, like, do the, do the music behind it as I talk. When I was a young whippersnaw. as an intern. I remember they were just, it was just so whack and just so dysfunctional

that season, that sponsors wouldn't even sponsor the arena, right? They were like, yo, take my sponsorship off, right? I remember there was one time, I think,

I think it was like Wells Fargoer or some bank had like pulled the sponsorship, right? But it was so dingy at Arco Arena that they didn't, they didn't take the sponsorship

signed down. They just put a cloth over. it during the game and it was on the score. It was on the scoreboard. So they just put like a fucking like a sheet over, right? During the game, the sheet falls onto the court as games are playing.

And Keith Smart, who was the head coach at the time, had to run on the court, get the, the sheet while the team was on the other end of the court and then run it back to the sideline. That's how dysfunctional the kings that the kings that I saw were. And it's just been that way systematically. even with the new ownership it's been that way.

They have finally made a right decision in hiring a guy like Mike Brown who is honestly the perfect head coach for this type of team, young team. You can mold them. They don't play defense, but they play all the way to their strengths. And they play a perfect brand of basketball

that a young team should play in front of a crowd like sack. Because I've been to a couple games this season, bro at Golden One, it gets loud. It gets loud. No, that's what's up, man. And I think, I think, you know, you hit on a few things. And I think you got to give Monty McNair some credit too, right?

Like we talked about, most definitely. You know, some of the, some of the moves that initially you might have been like, and I mean, the vision was there and he's, you know, the plan seems to be being executed. Here's, here's. I said this last part about like being exciting like only one team is going to win the championship and sometimes that

that might not even be the overall best team like it could be like one team dodge the injury bug better than the other one like do you know what I mean there are factors that kind of go into that like boom Kevin Durant tears in Achilles Clay Thompson tears in ACL

they're now out can you dig what I'm saying so it's not always about that So I guess what I'm saying is there are things that go into winning a championship that aren't always within your control, injuries, suspension, so on and so forth. So the next thing we want to do is be fucking exciting, man. Put out a brand of basketball and people can get down with them want to come to the building to watch us play. And they do that in a big way. I do think it's interesting, both interesting and will be fixed, is defensively. Like I think that Mike Brown historically, that's been his calling card, right?

Like he's a defensive guy and he's got this kind of team and he went about it systematically. I think it's also a great story about learning. Like, you know, Mike Brown's been a multiple time head coach and I think you can see him continue to develop too. So the way he approached this team. That's a big question, though. What's the biggest development? Because I want to talk about this part of it because we both spent a lot of time around Mike Brown. And I know the Mike Brown that I know, which is the vibe be chilling like, oh, yeah, we're going to get this figured out.

I got the post-Golden State Warriors, Mike Brown. You got the beginning Mike Brown where he was the micromanager, the guy that would stay in the gym for 20 hours a day and not have a social life type thing. And it still wouldn't work. Like what was the early Mike Brown like? Well, I didn't play for Mike. Mike was around the staff. I think he was joining the Spurs when I was a baby, and I didn't make that Spurs team. He was with them.

So I only knew him. And then in Cleveland, I was consulting right before he got fired. So, you know, I wasn't around him a lot, but that is what I had kind of heard about him, which was he was a grinder. You know what I mean? Like he was a, you know, a hard work. And a lot of guys were like, you know. But I think as he experienced more, like trial and error, you know, been around a new generation of person.

Like any good coach has to continue to evolve. And I think you've seen him evolve into the guy that you know from Golden State. And again, I haven't been around him at all. So I can't really speak to this. But I've heard accounts from you and other people that those are the vibes now. And so coaching in today's NBA, especially offensively, I feel like to coach an offensive team, you have to have a light hand. to coach a defensive team, you can be a little heavier-handed, blah, bra, bra, bra, bra.

But to coach one of these teams that is just fluid movement and offensive, like, creativity, your hand has to be really light. Like, Mike D. Antony was my example of this, and I juxtapose him to, like, to Jerry Sloan. my Utah teams were based on tough defensive mindset, very little creativity offensively, and very little deviation from the script. I've told the story again, the genesis of like the Darren Williams and Jerry fallout when Jerry retired. It probably wasn't the genesis, but this is what the straw that broke the camel's back, was simply calling a play that was meant to be ran on the left side of the court and calling it and flipping it to the right side of the court, exact same play,

because Darren thought that I think it was Al Jefferson wanted to post up on this side better than he wanted to post up on the left. And Jerry was really upset about that. So heavy-handed, defensive mindset type of team. But then Mike DeAnne Antonio on an offensive team, he barely ever tinkered with what people were doing to a point where I'd say to a Mike,

you know, I'd be in his office, I'd be like, Mike, you know damn well. He's supposed to swing that ball, man. Like, this is a swing, swing. And he'd tell me, yeah, Raj, should he probably have swung that ball? absolutely. He was like, but if I get in his head and tell him to swing that ball, then he starts second-guessing other shots. And I think cumulatively it's better to have him playing free and not second-guess anything than it is to have him, you know, thinking about it just so we can get

this one right. So it was a long answer to a short question is I think he's he's loosened his reins and he's a lot more chill and it allows the offense to kind of run the way it runs. But I do think they're uniquely positioned with a guy who has history about. building good defenses to kind of find their way to having the type of defense that could help them sustain winning. I think it's a really good case study right now and just, I think a lot of coaches get messed up in the fact that they want to get their philosophy out without looking at the personnel of the team. You know what I mean? Like Mike Brown is a defensive-minded coach. His record speaks for itself. Like I'm not talking about this season because I think the Kings are 26 and

defensive defense. They don't guard anyone. They are like me. They are not like Roger Bell. They are like me. It is a revolving door defense here. But I think that honestly, is weirdly a compliment to Mike Brown, right? Because this is his first year, right? He hasn't been able to implement his full implementation of his defense and what he wants to accomplish. But I think this is honestly a compliment to Mike Brown because what he could have done, he could have debrailed the whole situation and be like, Darren, why you ain't playing no defense, bro? Go and lock

in. I don't care about what you do offensively. It's a bonus. Just be the best offender you can be. Do that. But what he's done is like, you know what? We're going to play to this team's strengths. And we're going to, as we do that, we're going to systematically implement this philosophy. It speaks to

a guy that honestly has gone through a lot of things in his career, seen a lot of things. We forget, man. This dude, this dude, was a head coach for a team that featured LeBron James, then went to a team that featured Kobe Bryant, then went to a team that like he's seen a lot, right?

Kyrie. As a head coach, Kairi, and that's just as a head coach, right? As his assistant, you know, he had to deal with everybody. Everybody's like Rajabelle and fucking training camp and shit. But also like Ron Artesse, like he knows how to to work with different personalities. But he's experienced. To his credit, he's like, Darren, be the fastest guy in the NBA.

Just, you know, just figure your stuff out and just play to your strengths. And we will, we will implement that other stuff on the back end. I am really impressed with this second chance that, or third or fourth chance, however you want to call it. But the next chance, because a lot of coaches don't get this chance, you know? Absolutely. A lot of guys don't do that. Well, he's, I mean, he's a really good coach. So, you know, he's earned the right.

Like, you know, he went, he went back and, and put his time in being an assistant again. But like, Mike Brown's always been a really good coach. But what you're talking about now is an evolution. That shows, like, flexibility. It shows, it shows a lot of ability to understand, read the room, know that if I come in too heavy-handed right now from the experiences I had, like, I can't lose these dudes off the bat. So let's play to the strengths, like adaptability. Let's let's do that. And again, if I'm a Sacramento Kings fan or if I'm someone in that building making decisions,

like I'm really excited because if it were flipped on its head and the defense was great and the offense was terrible, I'd have no roadmap or history to suggest that we know how to get there. But in this space, I'd be really excited because the offense is great. And Mike Brown knows defense. Like that's what he does. Like we'll be all right. We'll get there.

I can see that because I've got, he's got the track record and I can see the roadmap to it. So in that space, I'm really excited. I am very excited. The Kings have had a lot of luck this season and they're going to need a lot of luck as this, this, this, the standings come into play. Right. They're firmly, I think. I'm looking at the standings right now. they're firmly in

in third place. They're two games above Phoenix. But say like right now, the Kings will be playing a Timberwolves, which I think is a really good out for the Kings. I think the King can figure that out. They can win that series. But say like Golden State slips to six,

you know, or like the Mavs get to six or something like that, or the clippers get to six and they get out of the playing, like that's going to be a very, very tough matchup for the Kings. What are you,

if you're in this stage right now as a coach and you're trying to figure this out, or as a team, where do you trying to accomplish as a young team like this who doesn't? Because my thing with the Kings right now is they're a really good regular season team. I don't see them going that far in the postseason. The reason being, they just ain't never been there before. I know they have coaches that have been there,

but they have coaches that have been there. I have people in their organization that have been there. Great staff right now. but it's Deeran Fox just hasn't been there before you know on that level and so I this is a team that needs the right matchup to at least get into the seconds

and out of the first round into the second round I don't see them as a contender contender but if they want to like really just you know get around one they have to have the right matchup but when you're in the building what is your mindset during this time when you're trying to figure your way through a season like this. How are you looking towards it?

You're not looking at the standings, right? You're just trying to keep on winning every game. What are you doing? What is the vibe that should be? And what is the vibe that it is right now at Sacramento? Let's play ball. We're not, we're not concerned ourselves with playoff seating or, you know, obviously we want to be in the playoffs. But we're not concerning ourselves with what matchup we're going to see or we're not putting the cart before the horse. Like we are, we are developing habits here. We are trying to consistently be the, as close to the best version of ourselves that we can be every game. We're developing that mentality, having that attitude, and trusting that if we learn to do that more often than not,

with the talent that we have and the infrastructure that we have, that we will ultimately get to where we want to go. But right now, we're in the infancy stages of that. We're just trying to learn how to do this consistently. And whoever we see, we're going to give them a dog fight, win or lose, we're going to give them a dog fight, but we can't start trying to pick out. We haven't done shit yet.

We're just trying to play ball. We'll beat you. I think, you know, around the young teams that I've been around, that's the trap, right, where you think you better than you are and you actually think you've done something. I mean, we see that with the Memphis Grizzlies right now

and it's, you know, who have been just the poster child of when keeping it real goes wrong, but I digress. The, the kings could fall prey into that, right? Like, of just, man, we're here, overlooking opponents,

we're supposed to win this game type, you know what I mean, that they're getting to that. How do you, as a coach, say, nah, that ain't it. We ain't done shit. Do you just, is that a message every day if we haven't done anything yet? Or, like, how do you kind of?

Well, first of all, let me just, when you said that it like remember the Dave Chappelle skits where you know he goes through it and I remember at that moment Logan knew that he had fucked up right like and I just pictured jaw in the video with with the with the gun that it could have been a classic Chappelle skit I'm sorry we ain't going to talk job but like imagine that like in in the fucking video gun out and at that moment What the fuck? But look, I'm not going to get into that. We digress.

That's our feelings on that situation. All to everyone that's been hitting us, like, what we think. That's it. Now, let's talk about something positive. Yes. So I think it's kind of, it was funny to me to tickle my soul a little bit. But I think that's less of a daily conversation, like, as it is more of an overall culture that you build. and what your, you know, goals and objectives are for a season when you lay those out in training camp

and what you're going to culturally be about, like what the DNA of your team is going to be, how you're going to build it emotionally and philosophically. And you go about working every day in that manner so it becomes who they are. right like so so at this point it doesn't have to be if every day you come in there you got to say okay guys listen i need you guys to be grownups i need us not to put the car before the horse we haven't done anything yet if that's what you have to do then you don't have a shot at it you should have conditioned them to know that this is what we do by this point right like if you talk about it every day boy you ain't got no shot at it so i think that there are times though that as this consistency

and foundation has been laid, that you will have to grab a knucklehead, Raja, or Logan, and pull them into the office and be like, hey, listen, all right, you know, what you got going on in your world, man? Like, what's happening at a home? Like, you know, we've been getting, we've been cutting it close on getting here to practice on time. Like, I see a trend starting to kind of develop. I'm just a little bit worried about it.

Let's talk it out. Man, what, boom, get some feedback and just continue to nudge them in the right directions. Like, that's, those are human beings. but I don't think that you need to be, if you're yelling that at this point, then you've already missed. So it should be established. And typically when you see teams playing as well as they are,

and this is a large sample size now, and they're all, you know, this offense has looked like this for a long time now. Like they're doing things the right way. That foundation has been laid. Like they're stable. So now it's just like continuing to go about your business. You can probably right now, Logan,

as I'm thinking about it, just kind of on the fly. so bear with me. I think as you reach this point in the season, maybe in a few more games, right? Like you are going to start having conversations about what the last stretch looks like, about bringing it home the right way,

about making the best push we can make to get the best seat in the playoffs, but not necessarily about who we want to see, but the importance of finishing this out on the right note, treating our bodies right, staying healthy, making sure we stay in the weight room the way that we need to be in the weight room,

so that we don't have any lingering injuries, make sure you get your treatment. Like all of the important things that a young team might not be familiar with because they haven't been in this situation, you start talking about those things going in to this last quarter of the season. Yeah, we'll see what happens.

Quickly, real quick. What's the ceiling for the Kings? Where do you see them going? I say second round tops. Yeah, this year, yeah. I mean, for sure. This year. This year, I think they can, like,

this is what I'm afraid of. I just don't want them to make a stupid-ass trade. offseason because they're filling themselves. And I think Monty McNair is on a great job systematically building the team. And I don't want them to go out like the Minnesota Timberwolves where they just say, oh, well, we're here now. Now we've got to go compete for a title.

It's systematic over a year. So I just hope that they do that. There's a great year. Just keep building. I would echo that. I just, look, there's such a fun team offensively that on any given night, they could beat anybody.

But you got guard in this league, bro, because those teams got, They got dudes too. And I've never seen a team that's bottom third in the league have true postseason success. You know what I mean? So for that reason, I'm out. But, you're so bad defensively. I still love watching them play.

I think I'm going to watch them. I think I'm going to go up to sack and watch it this week. All right. It is time for Snow Talk. Okay. We got our guy. Kiggity Kerm out of the motherfucking cut once more. he is here with him and his du rag

he's locked in yes sir we have 10 minutes on the clock Kerm is going to ask us questions pertinent questions about season the next episode of Southall what's going on Kerm what we got what's up?

You know to get things started you know let's talk about this most recent episode was focused on Leon you know coming back from the mother and try to bring his newfound wisdom to South Central. So how do we feel about Leon at this point in the season? And he's most definitely getting killed, ain't he?

Hey, can let me listen. First, let me say, my parents weren't gone up like a year or two ago. Supposed to be super, super powerful. Oh, yeah, it is. I've been. It's definitely a powerful experience, but. Yeah. Oh, you've been.

I ain't been. So, like, I mean, I felt that coming across the screen. in the episode. So that was cool. Having said that, well, you back, you back in the hood, bro. Ain't nobody's trying to hear that shit. The boys, hey, them boys in the middle of a war. That's a war, dog. You drop back into a war. Those dudes are like, Franklin, what do you tell him? Hey, like, I appreciate all that shit, my boy. You go ahead to pick a side, though. Or leave. So, yeah, I see Leon probably. My hope is that Leon gets back on the plane and takes it back. But more than likely, I think

Leon's going to get caught up in some stuff, bro, and it's going to be a tragedy. Bro. What the fuck, Leon? You're going to go from beautiful Ghana where your girl, your boo-boo is out here loving on you. Y'all getting some fucking, you got your kenthe cloth popping. Your braids are looking beautiful on both of y'all. Y'all just got a moisturizer. It's like, it's- Palm oil down.

Hell, you're locked in, right? The last thing I want to do when I'm fucking in Ghana with my queen, after all the shit that I've been through over these last few years to go back to crack era Los Angeles. I'm not going to, I'm not going to Sherman Oaks, bro.

I'm not going to Beverly Hills. No, I am going to, I'm going back to where I just came from, dog. I'm going back to the Jex, bro. Yeah. What the fuck? And also, this, ain't nobody trying to hear, dog.

Yo man's over here. Your number two, I mean, if you talk it, him sideways, he went back to the Jakes. If you talked back to him sideways, he's going to pop you. You know? I'm stressed thinking about what Leon is about to go through. I know we got

10 minutes. What's the next question? What the fuck Leon is my answer to that? So obviously, it's seeming that Leon is going to be back in Franklin Circle, but let's focus on the rest of Franklin St. Circle right now. Do we trust his wife? Do we trust his mother-in-law? Where's

that going to conclude at this season? Where are we going with that? I've been feeling this way for seasons now. I don't trust, I don't trust Veronique and I do not trust the mother-in-law. I have I just, I don't, I don't like it. I, they

there's big, like from Franklin's wife, there's big, like, you didn't know what you signed up for energy, right? Like, you knew the job was dangerous when you took it. You knew Franklin wasn't going to lead a game. We see this time and time again, just

people trying to change other people. We saw in power, right? We see it in these other, these, all these all mafioso, of, uh, films and, and, and,

and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and,

ain't going to happen, bro, like, either you win it or you should just leave them because he's not changing. He is doubled and triple down on his visit. This motherfucker got the KGB involved in his, in his cause.

He ain't leaving. He ain't going nowhere, leave him, boo-boo, or don't. But like, the fact that she's, there makes me think that she's an operative and her the mother-in-law who was with the shits on a

level that I just I just can't even fathom I just I don't see it bro I don't know I don't like it I don't trust it I don't like the cut of its jibrasia yes I couldn't put that a better way I agree yes all right last question so it's obvious that the overarching you know conflict this season is team Franklin versus team Jerome and Louis how do we see that result involving itself. And will Teddy ever get his comeuppance for being, you know, an ancient-ass CIA guy? Teddy's going to get his come-upants. I know that.

I'm pretty sure about that. I think Teddy is going to be, Teddy's going to get caught. Someone is catching Teddy. Teddy got too much, too much going on, bro. Somebody is touching Teddy. I don't know who it's going to be. Is it KGB or it's Oso or it's fucking someone's touching Teddy.

I just, man, you know what I felt the other day, man? And you didn't ask me this, but what I felt is when he was sitting at the table with Unk. And I didn't. Listen, this is weird for me, right? You're talking about Leon? Yeah, you know, I'm talking about Franklin was sitting at the table with Leon, right? Jerome. Yeah.

But when he pulled the gun on him. But that boy reached across the table and smacked his ass again. But listen, man, maybe I'm wrong, dog. But the way I see this, right, they all got in the game. And, like, together, everybody knew what was up. And, like, I'm team Franklin, though, bro. Like, I wasn't expecting that. I'm team Franklin.

Like, your wife literally went behind my back and stole the plug, bro. Like, what, how am I supposed to act when that happens? I'm supposed to just put a tail between my legs and walk away? And I, now I got you all back. And now we, this is family. And you crossed the line? I ain't, no, I ain't love that. Yeah.

And, like, Franklin put them on to begin with. Like, he was. He put them word. I understand that. To answer the original question, though, who's going to come out on top? This is what I think is going to happen. This is my little, this is my prediction, bro. I think that, I think Teddy getting popped for show by somebody.

He got way too many enemies, right? I think that he is definitely getting a hot one and he ain't waking up from it. I think that that's what's going to happen. I think that he's going, I don't know if it's with also. I don't know if it's for Franklin. I don't know who it's going to be. I think that he's getting popped. However, I don't think Franklin is getting out of this alive either.

Because you can't go against the U.S. government for too long. It is not going to happen. Facts. But you ain't going to go against the U.S. government in this fictionalized world, bro. It is not happening, dude. This is not how it's going to go down. It's just not going to happen. And I think that Teddy going to get his.

And I think Franklin going to get his. And I think... Let me ask you a question. Let me ask you a question. What's up? What's up? What's auntie's name again, man? My bad. What's her? I just had her own to my, you're Louis. Louis. Does do Louis and Leon make you? Like, no, no, no, as a couple. Like as a couple. Jerome, Jerome, you mean. My bad, Jerome. I'm sorry. Yes, Jesus Christ. Do they make it as a couple?

No. I don't think so. Because there's too much bloodshed and I think at a certain point, aunt going to just be like, dog, you have, you have caused this. You have. You have caused this. You are the root of all of this that is going on. It can't stand. I think I think Leon's, not Leon, excuse me. I think Franklin's mother. I think Franklin's mother is the one that's going to end. That's my prediction for the rest. She's going to win the series.

She's going to be at the end. I think everybody else dying. It's over with. At the very least, Leon catches a slug to the leg before he gets to the airport. And that's it. You know, because it's over. Because I'm over here. Here's a thing.

To tie it all the bag up to the first question, When I heard Leon, when I saw Leon when he was like in Ghana chilling, I could feel the breeze my damn self. I'm like, this is perfect. If I am Leon, I am never seen L.A. again in my life. Y'all can fly out here. Y'all can pull up out here. You know, if y'all really want to come and hang my personal. But there ain't nothing back there for me.

Fuck that. I ain't going back. I ain't got. Oh, you motherfuckeruck is nothing. And that's how I feel. But Leon can't run into the leg. Yeah, that's about our 10 minute mark. so let's wrap things up.

All right, all right. Thank you, man. That was the first and definitely not only edition of Snow Talk. We're going to do that every Monday for the last season of Snowfall. So we're going to do it as the real ones. And that has been our Monday episode of Real Ones. Thank you guys for tuning in. We do this every Monday and Thursday.

And we will see you on Thursday, man. Talk to y'all real, real soon. Hover.